1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 08 Nov 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 624       Contents:F Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support Re: Alpha equivalent5 Re: Are there any VMS Basic News Groups or Web sites?  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Cluster Problem  Re: Cluster Problem  Re: Cluster Problem ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed  Drives going offline ... Re: Drives going offline ... Re: eBay (guess what) again.* Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.* Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.* Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.% Re: Ethernet failure on MicroVAX 3400 " Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?( Re: NCP commands in the 7.2 Cluster doc?( Re: NCP commands in the 7.2 Cluster doc?- Re: Non-OpenVMS question (to Andrew Harrison) / Re: Suggestion for DCL scripts which open files ( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform
 Re: Time Zone  VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code " VMS MAIL, SMTP transports, headers& Re: VMS MAIL, SMTP transports, headers Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN # Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page # Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page # Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:43:09 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support + Message-ID: <VA.00000161.20ed1d2e@sture.ch>   ? In article <3A082AD6.597D2C2@digital.com>, Mike Rechtman wrote: 4 > From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Q > Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support ' > Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:16:22 +0900  >  > Paul Sture wrote:  > > Z > > In article <YkkJJ$it8pvf@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>, Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; >  > > > [...big snip...] > [ > > TPU can't search for the end of a line. Yes it can search for ^M and ^J (using ^V), but - > > it won't find ^M as the record delimiter.  > C > It _can_ search for end-of-line (as opposed to ^M or ^J) by using @ > wildcard search (PF1-Find on my keyboard) and searching for \># > (similarly \< for line beginning)  > ! > Or did I miss the point here...  > > Point taken :) Just tried it and it does what you say. Thanks.  Z But in its earlier incarnations (before V5.4???) I didn't manage to find it. I simply got T used to using the tool which would do the job with the minumum of efficiency for me.  [ Which is really what this thread is about. Each of us have developed ways of working which  Z suit us, given the options available (sometimes hardware and/or lack of manuals) and time ) pressures given at some time in the past.    ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 19:41:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Alpha equivalent , Message-ID: <3A089331.DDCC41DE@videotron.ca>   Jim Agnew wrote: > y > Damn... never thought it out thataway...  Clinton makes me wish Nixon was still around so I could vote for him again...   L Oh, come on. Clinton has been one of the best entertaining presidents in theN history of the USA. He gave comedians a record amount of joke material. He wasD a good politician. (that is what politicians are for, aren't they ?)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:27:38 -07005 From: "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com> > Subject: Re: Are there any VMS Basic News Groups or Web sites?) Message-ID: <OuLbonQSAHA.278@cpmsnbbsa07>   J I've been using it for the last 8 years or so. There many things for whichI it is well suited. There are also many things for which it is not so well  suited.   0 What specific question or questions do you have?  I As far as where to post - you'll find a bit more "traffic" in comp.os.vms K (and at least a few people who are likely to answer any questions you might  post).   Joe   , "Sapper" <fire@hotmail.com> wrote in message) news:t0f1i3avi30p12@corp.supernews.com... 	 > Hi all, G > I'm a computer programmer.  Mostly code in Compaq Basic, formally Dec  Basic,J > Vax Basic or VMS Basic.  Basically I am looking for folks out there thatK > code in the same language.  I write a lot of command procedures in DCL as  > well.  > H > My current project is implementing EDI across the DECNET.  I basically wrote % > the router and processing programs.  >  > Well, any help will do.  > Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 00:49:04 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Broken TK50L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0811000049040001@user-2ive688.dialup.mindspring.com>  k In article <MPG.14720c54bb98ac5a989690@news.bellatlantic.net>, John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net> wrote:       E > Meanwhile, back on the ranch...  I cleaned the drive, re-assembled, A > reseated controller cable, and now the VAX sees the TK50 again. J > Still won't mount the tape, $ mount/for mua0: gives "device not softwareC > enabled" and/or "medium is offline", and the error log is showing G > "tachometer failure" errors.  I shined a light inside the drive while G > it was trying to mount and saw the supply side capstan and the takeup G > reel were spinning for about 1-2 seconds and then pausing for about 4 G > seconds, always in the forward direction.  After about 10-15 minutes, E > it seemed to give up.  Pressing and releasing the red button had no G > effect.  I think this is consistent with a tach failure.  Anyone ever > > replaced one on a TK50?  Or is easier just to get a new one?  D I've taken one apart on a dead (split head) drive from the dumpster.  G The tach is an LED/photodiode pair and between them is a rotating metal H disk with lots of radial slits.  As it turns, the light alternately getsN through and is blocked.  I guess there is some kind of pulse-detecting circuit on the controller board.  F Mechanically, I don't see how the tach could fail if it still spinningC easily.  The LED or photodiode could be gone, or maybe the counting 4 circuit is sick.  Do you have an oscilloscope handy?  H I suppose enough dust in the tach could block the light.  (I don't think4 the LED makes visible light, but I might be wrong.)   J If you take the capstan/tach assembly apart, I don't know how critical the+ alignment is when you put it back together.    --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:28:10 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Broken TK505 Message-ID: <1001108011922.2093A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   + On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Robert Deininger wrote:   m > In article <MPG.14720c54bb98ac5a989690@news.bellatlantic.net>, John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net> wrote:  > G > > Meanwhile, back on the ranch...  I cleaned the drive, re-assembled, C > > reseated controller cable, and now the VAX sees the TK50 again. L > > Still won't mount the tape, $ mount/for mua0: gives "device not softwareE > > enabled" and/or "medium is offline", and the error log is showing I > > "tachometer failure" errors.  I shined a light inside the drive while I > > it was trying to mount and saw the supply side capstan and the takeup I > > reel were spinning for about 1-2 seconds and then pausing for about 4 I > > seconds, always in the forward direction.  After about 10-15 minutes, G > > it seemed to give up.  Pressing and releasing the red button had no I > > effect.  I think this is consistent with a tach failure.  Anyone ever @ > > replaced one on a TK50?  Or is easier just to get a new one? > F > I've taken one apart on a dead (split head) drive from the dumpster. > I > The tach is an LED/photodiode pair and between them is a rotating metal J > disk with lots of radial slits.  As it turns, the light alternately getsP > through and is blocked.  I guess there is some kind of pulse-detecting circuit > on the controller board. > H > Mechanically, I don't see how the tach could fail if it still spinningE > easily.  The LED or photodiode could be gone, or maybe the counting 6 > circuit is sick.  Do you have an oscilloscope handy?  D There is one I can borrow from the office.  It's been about 20 years4 since I've used one, but I hope I can figure it out.  J > I suppose enough dust in the tach could block the light.  (I don't think6 > the LED makes visible light, but I might be wrong.)   B Could I have been messing it up by shining a light into the drive?  A It is possible the tach errors occurred only when I was trying to D watch it.  I am pretty sure at least one occurred with the light outA and the drive shoved fully into the cabinet, but I'm not certain. E (The initial breakage happened in the middle of upgrading to VMS 7.2, B and I don't think ERRFMT was running at the time, but I still haveC the partially upgraded V7.2 disk, so I will also look at ERRLOG.SYS : on it to see if there are any tape errors recorded in it.)   > L > If you take the capstan/tach assembly apart, I don't know how critical the- > alignment is when you put it back together.   1 Well, I don't suppose I could make it any worse!?    >  > --   > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.com   , Thanks, I'll let everyone know what happens.  E P.S.  Should I really be asking this on comp.sys.dec?  Is that a more = hardware-oriented group, or is this on-topic for comp.os.vms?    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:15:17 GMT7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: Cluster Problem& Message-ID: <G3o5HI.5MH@world.std.com>  , helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:  J >A related question: if (non-system) disks are to be mounted by more than J >one node in the cluster, should one use MOUNT or MOUNT/SYSTEM at startup  >time?  E If they'll be mounted on more than one node, a regular MOUNT will not G work, so use MOUNT/SYSTEM.  (More obscure variants such as MOUNT/GROUP   will also work...)  B >  Is the RESULT of MOUNT on each node (or DO MOUNT from SYSMAN?) J >and MOUNT/CLUSTER the same?  Perhaps disks connected to one node are not I >available if that node is not available, so one might want to issue the  G >mount commands, from all nodes, after that node rejoins the cluster.   H >Again, individual commands or MOUNT/CLUSTER?  Any reason not to ALWAYS . >use MOUNT/CLUSTER if that is what is desired?  J MOUNT /CLUSTER is very similar in effect to a SYSMAN> DO MOUNT /SYSTEM ...   -Mike    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 20:00:50 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: Cluster Problem. Message-ID: <8u9n1i$a5u$4@info.service.rug.nl>  F In article <G3o5HI.5MH@world.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:   . > helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes: > L > >A related question: if (non-system) disks are to be mounted by more than L > >one node in the cluster, should one use MOUNT or MOUNT/SYSTEM at startup  > >time? > G > If they'll be mounted on more than one node, a regular MOUNT will not I > work, so use MOUNT/SYSTEM.  (More obscure variants such as MOUNT/GROUP   > will also work...)  H Let me back up a bit.  Imagine a cluster where all disks are physically D connected only to one node.  Unless one does some fancy footwork to F synchronise the booting of several machines, when a given node boots, F some disks will be either already mounted on other nodes which booted F earlier, or will not be available if connected to nodes which haven't H yet booted.  Either way, it seems that each machine, when it boots, has H to MOUNT the disks somehow.  Of course, if one waits until all machines @ are up, then one MOUNT/CLUSTER will do it, but things should be 6 automatic and work whetever machines are currently up.  D > >  Is the RESULT of MOUNT on each node (or DO MOUNT from SYSMAN?) L > >and MOUNT/CLUSTER the same?  Perhaps disks connected to one node are not K > >available if that node is not available, so one might want to issue the  I > >mount commands, from all nodes, after that node rejoins the cluster.   J > >Again, individual commands or MOUNT/CLUSTER?  Any reason not to ALWAYS 0 > >use MOUNT/CLUSTER if that is what is desired? > L > MOUNT /CLUSTER is very similar in effect to a SYSMAN> DO MOUNT /SYSTEM ...  @ How does this differ from MOUNT/CLUSTER issued on a single node?   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 22:41:38 GMT7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: Cluster Problem& Message-ID: <G3oF1E.BIE@world.std.com>  , helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:    I >Let me back up a bit.  Imagine a cluster where all disks are physically  E >connected only to one node.  Unless one does some fancy footwork to  G >synchronise the booting of several machines, when a given node boots,  G >some disks will be either already mounted on other nodes which booted  G >earlier, or will not be available if connected to nodes which haven't  I >yet booted.  Either way, it seems that each machine, when it boots, has  I >to MOUNT the disks somehow.  Of course, if one waits until all machines  A >are up, then one MOUNT/CLUSTER will do it, but things should be  7 >automatic and work whetever machines are currently up.   A In this case the best thing to do is to do a MOUNT/CLUSTER on the D server when it comes up, and a MOUNT/SYSTEM on the clients when they come up.  H The MOUNT/CLUSTER will mount the disk on all nodes in the cluster at theE time when the server makes its disks available.  The MOUNT /SYSTEM is C for nodes that enter the cluster later than the server and want to  F access the disk. Be sure that there is error handling here if the diskC is not available (server offline)  Redundant mounts are effectively  ignored.  M >> MOUNT /CLUSTER is very similar in effect to a SYSMAN> DO MOUNT /SYSTEM ...   A >How does this differ from MOUNT/CLUSTER issued on a single node?   G If in a single node cluster (or simply a single node) the MOUNT /SYSTEM J and MOUNT /CLUSTER do the same thing.  The /CLUSTER will have a tiny extraF bit of overhead as it looks for other nodes in the cluster to mount it% on and, not finding any, finishes up.    -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:20:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed, Message-ID: <3A089C26.446C720C@videotron.ca>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > $   EV ""def"" > DEF    However:  G EV "" def ""  yields an error since DCL now expects def to be a symbol.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 02:44:33 GMT 5 From: njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (Neil Cherry) ! Subject: Drives going offline ... > Message-ID: <slrn90hfhs.b25.njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>  > My drives on 2 MicroVAX II seem to be going offline and I get:  L %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, R7VEFG$DIA0: is offline. Mount verification in progress.  H After that I get a red line on the drive indicator and anything I on the console never returns.  
 Any ideas?   --  H Linux Home Automation           Neil Cherry             ncherry@home.netC http://members.home.net/ncherry                         (Text only) B http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52           (Graphics)0 http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/				(SourceForge)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:23:05 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> % Subject: Re: Drives going offline ... - Message-ID: <3A08C719.5FC3B212@earthlink.net>    Neil Cherry wrote: > @ > My drives on 2 MicroVAX II seem to be going offline and I get: > N > %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, R7VEFG$DIA0: is offline. Mount verification in progress. > J > After that I get a red line on the drive indicator and anything I on the > console never returns. >  > Any ideas?  G A problem with either the DSSI controller or the drive itself should be  considered.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.q   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 12:38:10 +0000n0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>% Subject: Re: eBay (guess what) again. * Message-ID: <3A07F7B2.FA3B0109@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:e > , > In article <3A0702A8.C05F6F95@uk.sun.com>,4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > >Jordan Henderson wrote: > >>  2 > >Nice try but your argument would be a whole lot7 > >more convincing if you hadn't tried to unsucessfullyT4 > >challenge the factual basis of my statements. You3 > >obviously felt that the way to defeat FUD was to-1 > >disprove the statments supporting it. You havei1 > >shown by your own posts that there is a direct0* > >relationship between FUD and falsehood. > >O > 2 > I don't know what you are talking about here.  I4 > often successfully challenge the factual nature of > what you have to say here. >    When recently ???????s  9 We have been talking about Java, none of your attempts to26 refute my statments were sucessfull were they. Instead5 having run out of ideas you started resorting to FUD.-  1 We have also been talking about VLM 64bit etc, I -1 don't see any points from you (or anyone else for ' that matter) that refuted my statments.%  5 In fact you could easily argue that 64bit VLM was FUD  on a massive scale by Digital. 1  : The Digital marketing campaign which can be summarised as:  A You don't want to get stuck with those small address space 32 biti systems 3 when you know you will need the performance and theN6 additional address space that 64bits provides.  So get a Digital Alpha Box instead.  < This contains just enough truth to be plausible, while being4 in a general sense totally untrue because most apps 1 didn't need, couldn't use 64bits/VLM and Digital  1 couldn't deliver a box that made things like VLM t
 effective.  4 > I've spent literally weeks pointing out how you've5 > used facts taken out of context, in isolation, spunf5 > just so, to produce FUD.  Now, you say that I'M thea/ > one who is giving creedence to this untenable>6 > position that there is a direct relationship between > FUD and falsehood? > 1 Hang on I would accept this is they were facts in 3 isolation, but 6 or seven facts and lets list them.r   1.3 isnt available on OpenVMSd5 1.2.x was very late on OpenVMS (12 months after otherd
 platforms)$ There isn't a JVM plugin for OpenVMS/ Some 1.3 apps don't run on 1.2.2 and vica versa 5 Some 1.3 apps arn't qualified on 1.2.2 and vica versagC 1.2.x and plugin is available for Solaris, AIX, Lunix, Win32, HP-UX)
 Tru64 etc.= 1.3 is available for Solaris, Win32, AIX, Linux, Tru64 (beta)   @ Now this hardly qualifies as "in isolation" unless of course you; take a rather strange view of the world, now we know thats o@ true of course. You were after all the person who described the ? OpenVMS's Java implimentation as being a little behind when in h8 fact it is over 12 months behind the bulk of the market.    : > >It was a very carefull, very detailed description which6 > >ignored one very tiny but very enormously important8 > >point which is that FUD particularly in this group is; > >used as an attempt to suggest that the person publishingl= > >the aledged FUD is lying. It does not matter how carefully-> > >you construct your definition, its the useage that matters. > >s > < > This is incredible!  YOU are the only person in this group= > ,or anywhere that I've found, who has forwarded the opinionb2 > that FUD is lying.  I've never used it that way. > 7 So why try so hard to discredit the facts on which the e6 FUD that you claim is being perpitrated is apparently 5 based. If you don't think that FUD is lying then why   bother doing this.  B > >> Now, please define FUD for me, so I can understand what it isB > >> when you say it?  From what I can tell about your definition,? > >> it's at odds with the history and present use of the term.t > >> > >1; > >Certainly, FUD is a sweeping convenient label for you tomB > >use to try to dismiss a series of facts that you are completely > >unable to refute. > >I > ? > Which series of facts?  You mean, like all the facts you spun D > to backup your pure FUD that Java on OpenVMS is Java "yes and no". > = Question for you, they were facts wern't they, you also triedt2 unsucesfuly to dipute them, whats going on Jordan,  ? > I could throw out a similar volley of facts that would backup > > the contention that the Java available on OpenVMS _is_ Java,; > but that would just fall into your trap.  You said it was-< > Java "yes and no", a half truth used to produce FUD.  If I9 > had been attacking your "facts", then maybe this absurdt= > claim that I have been using FUD and falsehood equivalently  > would be justified.t   Go on then.   = But it wasn't a half truth was it, the half truth and the oned: I was origionally objecting to was the statement that Java< is available on OpenVMS. Ignoring the unavailability of 1.3 2 this statment is  demonstrably half true for 1.2.x= for example the Plugin isn't available so people will be able A to run 1.2.X Java applications and applets using the appletviewerc8 but they won't be able to run anything using the plugin - required by Mozilla because there isn't one. d  9 Question for you did you consider the statement I made tos be FUD ?  8 Oh dear oh dear and you objected to my objecting to this9 perhaps you should be thinking about cutting your losses.l  < > No, if you go back and actually look at the record, you'll; > find that I worked to show how your "facts" were actuallye" > all just part of a FUD campaign. > 6 But Jordan if they are all facts then do they qualify 7 as FUD. It seems to me that you are simply complaining h( about what is an inevitable conclusion. ; > >Thats not what FUD really is but that is how you use thet: > >term, it doesn't matter how carefully you construct the+ > >definition its your useage that matters.i > >T? > >I agree with your definition entirely, the best FUD containsiB > >a tiny grain of truth wrapped in supposition etc etc, but thats( > >not how you use the definition is it. > >t > >kF > >> You seem to think that FUD is just "lies".  If I wanted to accuseG > >> you of lying, I would have no trouble dredging up several examplessD > >> of you doing this, and in each case, I called you a liar, not a@ > >> FUDster.  You use both lies and FUD to tear down Compaq andD > >> OpenVMS.  Sometimes you use lies to produce FUD, sometimes, youE > >> just lie and sometimes you use carefully chosen facts, taken out C > >> of context, in isolation or spun appropriately to produce FUD.4 > >> > >c? > >No I don't think FUD is lies it is however the accepted view. > >in this group particular. > >c2 > After all these many many weeks of poking fun at< > me for "confusing fact and FUD" that you've come around to > this view. > > > You accept my definition, do you?  Well, that's interesting,5 > because in article <39CF7C81.C43D3012@uk.sun.com> :e > R > http://x58.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=673931236&CONTEXT=973549013.1792475208&hitnum=2 >  > You said, and I quote: > A >   "So sorry if you call this FUD then you really are in trouble = >    you see in my book FUD is untrue, and making a statement ! >    that is true cannot be FUD."r >   B > As I said above, this is simply incredible.  This is exactly theA > point that I've been making for weeks, that you've poked fun atc@ > by saying that I have a problem separating FUD and facts.  You > are all over the place.t >   = Re read my posting, I agree with your general definition but r? that isn't important, what is important is how you use the terma< thats is what we are discussing not the textbook definition.  > > >Perhaps you can explain what leads you to this theory. TheyA > >port and test Java and then provide it to the Linux Community.  > >tD > >Sun/IBM port and test Java and then provide it to the Solaris/AIX > >communities.l > >n@ > >Compaq port and test Java and provide it to the Tru64/OpenVMS > >comunities. > > I > >Blackdown don't charge for their JVM, Sun, Compaq and IBM don't charger > >for their JVM's.b > >b= > >Blackdown have to do exactly what Sun, Compaq, IBM, HP etcu: > >have to do to get a JVM out of the door. So how do they@ > >do it if according to you the playing field is slanted in the > >wrong direction.  > >b< > >Your dismissal of them as a "vendor" is simply convenient< > >to your argument isn't it but has not other basis in fact > >its just more spin. > >t > ; > I dunno.  Most people don't call a loose confederation ofy= > Internet developers a vendor.  Are the members of the Linux ; > Kernel mailing list a vendor headed by Linus Torvalds?  I ; > don't think most people would agree that they were.  Now,a, > RedHat or VA Systems, _those_ are vendors. > : > I'm sorry I've been careful with my terminology and this6 > gives you some trouble in understanding what I mean. >   : No you have been carefull with terminology to try to spin 9 your way out of the argument the best example here being e: your attempt to label Blackdown as not being a "Vendor" in> order to show that only Sun and IBM have shipped 1.3 releases.   This is just spin on your part.k  < Why bother, it isn't the label that matters its the process = that Blackdown has to go through to get a working version of  B Java out on Linux and if that process is slanted in Sun's favour.   ; > In any case, only IBM and Sun have produced ports of Java = > in lockstep.  Blackdown just got 1.3 out in late September.: >   : Do you think this helps your argument ?? The fact is that 8 Blackdown have gone through the same process that Compaq> have to do to get a production JVM and they did it arround the> same time as Compaq's release of the previous major release ofB Java for OpenVMS. Not a bad acheivement for a "loose confederation of Internet developers".  @ Nor does it make your response to my posting any  less incorrect; does it unless we allow your "carefull use of terminology".e  < > Vendors other than Sun have their own reasons for bringing@ > things out when they will.  Seeing as everyone recognizes that; > Sun has this big mindshare advantage in the Sun realm, itm: > doesn't exactly behoove the rest of the vendors to knock< > themselves out just to give Sun more legitimacy with Java. >   9 Ahh so it isn't the standardisation process at all, well  9 why didn't you say so, but you didn't did you. More spin.U   > A > What I argued was that if you asked a group of IT professionals B > who has the best Java implementation they would almost uniformlyA > answer "Sun".  You said this was irrelevant, but it's not.  ThegA > Sun Java brand is a considerable disadvantage to other vendors.a > ; No that is not what you argued this is a new argument that P9 has just occured to you because of my response to Terrys s posting. Spin.  B > I _also_ argued that Sun not opening the standardization processD > has ALSO given many of the Java partners problems (including IBM),: > at one point or another, which I backed with references. >   9 But you were unable to back this with any examples of howO: this had effected IBM's ability to deliver timely releases< of the JVM, you are refering to two different things, access: to technology and contractual negociation, IBM complained 7 about the contractual negociations they didn't complaino about access to technology.e  ? > Now, tell us Andrew.  What's all this dance with Sun and JavatA > standardization really all about?  First ISO, then ECMA??  It'st? > not just us crazy OpenVMS advocates that seem to be concernedT
 > about this:h >   ; But it does not really matter does it because regardless ofM; ISO or ECMA issues, Java standards that the Java licencees  : with the exception of Microsoft and HP have agreed on have= continued to be developed and other suppliers have had accessU< to the technologies in an open way and this includes Compaq.  @ > I'm prepared to argue that Sun has an advantage with Sun based@ > on the fact that they control the standards.  I also argue theA > branding issue, but I put it in different terms by referring toU> > it as a mindshare problem among Sun competitors.  I'll stick9 > with as many arguments as I need to make to refute you.  >   < Sure you are prepared to argue on the basis of Sun's control: of the standards it is a pity that you havn't been able to= come up with anything to back your arguments up though isn't o it.     B > >As a matter of interest though do Compaqs Java porting and testD > >engineers have a harder job because Sun's name is associated with	 > >Java ?i > >   9 Perhaps you should answer this question since it seems to   be at the crux of your argument.    : > You see Andrew, I'm not in the business of FUD.  I don't> > challenge _everything_ said here, pro or con Compaq/OpenVMS.: > No, mostly I only get involved in these debates with one9 > Sun employee who is obviously on a mission to discreditc: > Compaq, OpenVMS and it's adherents on this newsgroup set& > aside for discussions about OpenVMS. >   8 Ahhh now we get to the truth of it, well done you got it6 off your chest at last. You are basically saying that 3 a statement made by me on this newsgroup no matter t4 if it is all factual (but uncomfortable to OpenVMS) . will be treated as FUD because I work for Sun.  5 Why did you bother with all your carefull definitionsn of FUD, what a waste of effort.N   Regardsi Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 20:17:29 GMTT& From: Cthulhu <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it>3 Subject: Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.e( Message-ID: <8u9o0p$i2$1@kadath.deep.it>  3 Martin Vorlaender <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote:R  F > : On the linux machine (rlyeh.deep.it) I already enabled all clients > : access with "xlock +".< > It should work, IMHO. Errr... shouldn't that be "xhost +"?   Yes, indeed. Just a typo. :)  J > Try to run DECW$EXAMPLES:ICO.EXE. Its error messages are normally better# > than those of other applications.T   Ah. Thanks!l   	explainingly, 	    Cthulhu   -- i  G        Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it wgah'nagl fhtgan!,# 		        <cthulhu at rlyeh dot it>-   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 20:16:16 GMTm& From: Cthulhu <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it>3 Subject: Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300. ( Message-ID: <8u9nug$hu$1@kadath.deep.it>  ( John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.net> wrote:  < >> I have modified SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COMN > It does not matter what you put in that file, it is not used unless you have# > graphics hardware on your system.    As I supposed...  @ >>     %DECW-W-NODEVICE, No graphics device found on this systemE >>     -DECW-I-NODECW, DECwindows graphics drivers will not be loadedeL > That should not be a surprise, since you admitted already that the VAX did   It isn't. :)  H > Do you have DecWindows-Motif installed?  It requires either a DW-MOTIF8 > license key or a NET_APP_* license key for it to work.  ? Mmmmh... anything this is an hobbyist system, so I have all theC? licenses. I think I installed Motif support too, but I'll checkr again...  F > Also look for older images in the SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSLIB] and [SYSEXE]1 > directories that could be causing you problems.n   Fresh install this was!-  ( > Try the decw$examples:ico.exe program.   Will do.   Thanks!    	queueingly, 	   Cthulhud   -- o  G        Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it wgah'nagl fhtgan!3# 		        <cthulhu at rlyeh dot it>e   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 20:20:33 GMT & From: Cthulhu <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it>3 Subject: Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.p( Message-ID: <8u9o6h$io$1@kadath.deep.it>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:   K > This sort of issue is usually related to securuity settings on the systemhI > displaying the windows or transport options being set wrongly on one oriJ > both of the systems.  Often, it is the security and the inability of the   And I'll check again this too!   	recheckingly, 	   Cthulhu/   -- o  G        Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it wgah'nagl fhtgan!s# 		        <cthulhu at rlyeh dot it>e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:36:54 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>. Subject: Re: Ethernet failure on MicroVAX 34005 Message-ID: <1001107181708.2092A-100000@Ives.egh.com>:  , On Tue, 7 Nov 2000 baboyd@my-deja.com wrote:  4 > In article <39f6ba12.1367450409@news.newsguy.com>,* >   A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) wrote:4 > > On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:10:36 GMT, "Chris Chiesa"& > > <cchiesa1@rochester.rr.com> wrote: > >n/ > > >   My customer has a MicroVAX 3400 runningo [...]: > > -- > > Alan Greig > >r > . > This is not necessarily a reply, but another0 > question.  You said you had to switch from the0 > BNC connection to the AUI connection.  We have3 > ripped all coax out of our building and purchasedr0 > an adapter to go from AUI to RJ45 to attach to1 > our ethernet.  Now, the machine can not get outl/ > on the network.  It can only ping itself.  Is 0 > there anywhere to specify which transciever is1 > plugged in or should it somehow auto-detect?  If2 > have a T with terminators plugged in to the coax2 > port.  Without this, it would not boot properly.  > Any help would be appreciated. > 	 > Thanks,s >  > Bruce Boyd > bboyd@edulog.com  3 There is (or should be) a slide switch on the frontl4 panel that selects AUI or BNC.  On our VAX 4000-200,2 it has a hash mark (#) next to it.  There are also1 lines connecting each end of the switch to one ofa5 the connectors and a pair of green LEDs that indicateb which port is selected.a   -- t John Santosw Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:43:08 +0100i  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>+ Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?.+ Message-ID: <VA.00000160.20ed1a03@sture.ch>s  > In article <3A06E003.90F8BFCC@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn wrote:/ > From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>n > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmss- > Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed? ' > Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:44:51 +0000' >  >  >  > Paul Sture wrote:  >  > >oH > > > Yes, I use 64kbyte blocks too, but beware, you must mount the tapeL > > > FOREIGN to read sucessfully, and you will not be able to copy savesetsN > > > made with a blocksize greater than a certain limit (32kbytes?) from tape@ > > > to disk without unpacking the saveset from the tape drive. > > >lN > > Which is precisely the reason I use 32K. I've found being able to copy theE > > savesets to disk very useful in the past, particularly when doing  > > selective restores.f > >e > N > Depends if you have enough spare disk space to do that.  The HSD05 connectedB > RZ28's don't perform much better than a TZ87 for backups anyway. >AK I remember finding that a backup/image to TZ87 and back to disk for defrag XN purposes was quite a bit faster than HSD05 disk to disk. Plus you had another  backup tape, just in case.   [snip] ___h
 Paul Sture Switzerlands   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 22:14:45 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>1 Subject: Re: NCP commands in the 7.2 Cluster doc? ( Message-ID: <8u9qp0$hgu$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  J Hmm, they just forgot to change the terse NCP commands to NCL invocations?  
 Hans Vlems  L Didier Morandi heeft geschreven in bericht <3A084BF5.BDA3A587@Easynet.fr>... >in page >eH >www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/4477/4477pro_005.html#decnet_config >oA >of the OpenVMS Cluster Systems dated january 1999, there are NCP  >commands instead of NCL. Why ?  >  >D.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 00:00:23 -0400'- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t1 Subject: Re: NCP commands in the 7.2 Cluster doc?o, Message-ID: <3A08CFD6.D1F603D5@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:H > Upgrading from Phase-V to Phase-IV is no small task, but the rewards -I > in sleep-filled nights, stable systems and connections, etc. - are well ( > worth the nominally monumental effort.  N I spent more time downgrading to phase 5 from 4 than I did upgrading from 5 toM 4. I had everything running on the phase 5 stuff. But for my machines, it waseM overkill and took way too many resources, and issued too many opcom messages.t  K Also, installing it on my all mightly microvax II was impossible because it?K requires 80k blocks to install, whereas Phase 4 does the same with far less   system resources and disk space.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 17:23:38 -0500n/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) 6 Subject: Re: Non-OpenVMS question (to Andrew Harrison)* Message-ID: <8u9vda$qo0$1@lisa.gemair.com>  ) In article <3A08104A.59DF9324@gtech.com>,u? Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=  <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:o+ >fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: N >> Do you know if the QFS file system is a good choice instead of the VxFS for >> example ? >> l0 >> http://www.lsci.com/lsci/products/product.htm >> h# >> Is this company LSCI trustable ?s >, >Why ask him ? > H >He is very good at saying SUN's products are good and Compaq's are bad. >l: >But do not trust him as a source for technical solutions. >m  A In any case, please take it to comp.os.solaris or comp.sys.sun.  t   >Arnee   -Jordan Hendersonl jordan@greenapple.comp   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:32:35 -0500uR From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil (Ed James, 410-295-1919, ed.james@telecomsys.com)8 Subject: Re: Suggestion for DCL scripts which open files0 Message-ID: <00110716323509@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  ? "BAZLEY, Sebastian" <Sebastian.BAZLEY@sema.co.uk> wrote in ? on   Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:07:54 -0000 :  J > Suggestion: the following idiom is useful when accessing files from DCL: > . > $ close/nolog CONFIG ! clean up if necessary > $ open/read   CONFIG xxx.yyy > $ read CONFIG line > ...l > $ close CONFIG > M > The close/nolog does no harm if the file is not currently open, but is verynG > useful if the previous invocation of a command file has left the file,	 > open...    This also works:  4   $ if f$trnlnm("CONFIG") .nes. "" then close CONFIG  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919 ; 2024 West Street, Suite 300              800-810-0827 x1919t5 Annapolis, MD 21401-3556           fax   410-280-1094    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 13:51:17 -0500v* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformy+ Message-ID: <lUCgoZGKDCbW@eisner.decus.org>   ] In article <3A084929.F1D7BA99@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:i > Rob Young wrote:  ? > Want to guess you are good at that, well they have had 7. Nowo? > we arn't happy with that number but 7 failures in 2500 CPU's   > is around 0.3%.  > E > The other customer has 60 Sun's mostly 4500's 6500's and  2 E10000sr > and they have had 0 failures.  > G > Now other customers have had more but and this will probably suprise vJ > you given your outright dismissal of the idea putting the cache scrubberI > on and making use of the advice Sun has given them on the environmental G > side has reduced the failure rate to 0 in at least 2 major customers 92 > here in the UK who were getting eCache failures. > G >>         Next tank?  Bold prediction?  Nahhh.  They have thousands ofsG >>         Sun UE10000s in the field.  They are crashing left and righta> >>         or the "red alert" team wouldn't be meeting at all. >> T > B > I will leave you to the prediction game Rob it is after all your3 > speciality though not possibly your stong point. a > F > Or do I need to remind you how bad your record is in the prediction 9 > game its currently bumping along at arround 0 isn't it.t >   D 	We know about Verisign relegating Sun kit to "also ran" status and C 	moving them of the critical loop.  We'll hear of others, won't we?n 	Yes?  No?    2 	Are we to believe the Aussies are the last of the@ 	lot?  No one told them about the ecache scrubber?  Since Sun isC 	still allowed to be part of the RFP down there, seems the UE10000sn> 	just weren't up to snuff so is Sun proposing IBM's S80s as a 
 	solution?  = 	You see Andrew you don't have any good answers no matter howq@ 	you attempt to spin it.  I'm surprised you didn't start talking> 	about Pittsburgh again but it is clear you are clueless there< 	too.  Tell us what went on in Australia.  Tell us about the 	Verisign folks.  	 	Spin on!i   				Robn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:33:13 GMT + From: Jordan Henderson <jordan@my-deja.com>'1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformo) Message-ID: <8u9oua$27h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   * In article <3A082785.BAC246E0@uk.sun.com>,3   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >  > [snip] >g8 > Sure so you are happy to beat Sun over the head with a8 > Gartner report but whine when someone uses one to beat1 > Compaq over the head. What was it you called itr > an anecdote. >   : I'm not whining.  I think the Gartner report is a cause of@ great concern for Compaq.  I was just pointing out the hypocrisy? of a Sun employee using a Gartner Report as backup material form> an accusation of quality problems.  You know, glass houses and	 all that?n  C Oh dear, it took me months of explanations to get you to understands> what the term FUD means, am I going to have to spend much time? getting you to comprehend what an anecdote is?  Let's hope your : comprehension difficulties don't get in the way this time.  D My dictionary says that an anecdote is "a usually short narrative ofB an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident".  A story aboutE your friend's Compaq laptop is an anecdote, while a Gartner Report isT not.   > [snip] >c	 > Regardsg > Andrew Harrisone > Enterprise IT Architectt >o   -- -Jordan Hendersona jordan@greenapple.comt    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.s   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 09:20:23 -0500i* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformt+ Message-ID: <BYktQmtp1QXr@eisner.decus.org>o  o In article <rjq4s1jc2xe.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> writes:i. > young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > ` >> In article <3A069E60.46CBF7D7@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: >> > Rob Young wrote:s >> g > F >> > "Probably" you have no idea why it failed its acceptance tests doD >> > you. You are just FUDDING again. Come on Rob do better this is H >> > bad even for you or are you having the old "cut and paste" problem ' >> > again that like your eBay FUDDING.m >> > a >> tE >> 	But wait... they are re-issuing the bid.  Since there are severaln? >> 	other HPC UE10000s below the Aussies in the Top 500, can weaA >> 	assume they passed their accpetance testing?  If so, then thes= >> 	Aussies can't get their software to run?  Don't think so.eB >> 	You see Andrew, there are very few avenues of choice here.  Do> >> 	you think we should suppose they are being hung-up by some= >> 	third party product?  But yes, I am taking a chance theren? >> 	aren't I by stating "probably".  I was also taking a chance A >> 	in December 1999 when I assumed that the Sun UE10000 problemslE >> 	were "long-standing" problems and wouldn't be going away any timefG >> 	soon.  Of course I used very little projection there.  After all , lJ >> 	the Gartner folks had shown us the "light" and we learned a whole lot L >> 	more in August 2000 regarding just how hard Sun was going about keeping  >> 	this quiet.a > B > This is the lead item in the IT section of the Australian today.C > ( Tuesdays OZ is the nearest thing to a national IT news thing. )  > H > Calling a tender and re-starting strikes me a a big step, as the MarchC > date screwes anyone who was looking at funding for next year. Then' > year starst in Jan here don't forget.  >   : 	Hey Andrew... does this count as "something new" since it  	is in today's paper down there?  L http://www.australianit.com.au/common/storyPage/0,3811,1387976%5E442,00.html  N But the contract to provide the system was terminated when the initial systemsG failed to pass acceptance tests within the time allowed, APAC executive . director John O'Callaghan confirmed last week.  M A new request for proposal was released last month, and responses were due inu" mid-December, Dr O'Callaghan said.  N "Sun supported us in this move, and will respond to the request for proposal," he said.  O The peak system now will not be available to researchers until March next year.e3 Fifty researchers have already sought access to it.e  J Dr O'Callaghan said no money had been lost on the Sun deal, only "effort".   ....  O "The lack of an advanced computing infrastructure has forced many scientists tonK use overseas systems to perform the complex computations required for theirg
 research."  < Dr O'Callaghan was disappointed the deal had fallen through.  N "When you are dealing with new machines and technology that is always a risk," he said.    ? 	Pleeeze.  New technologies?  How long as the UE10000 been out?s: 	Once bitten, twice shy?  I wonder if Sun is proposing new* 	and improved UE10000s on their *new* RFP.     				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 07:28:48 +0800o4 From: Dave Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: Time Zone+ Message-ID: <3A089030.CC7F2F5D@bigpond.com>    Paul Repacholi wrote:o > # > richard_maher@my-deja.com writes:w >  > > Hi,t > > F > > I don't know whether there is a formal association but in Perth WAG > > ("West Australia" I think WA is also a state in the US?) the peoplekJ > > have voted *NO*! in about four referenda (referendums?) forced on themH > > by governments hell bent on wasting money. I believe Queensland alsoH > > says *NO*! For those of you who don't know, these are the Australian3 > > states that actually get sunshine and a summer.o > @ > There where only 2 years with daylight saving here; 1983-4 and	 > 1975-6.  > G > Looking at a map a thinking about the difference between LMT at PerthtD > ( where 95% of WAs pop live ) and the nominal time Long is a hint. > * > > PS. See you on Trigg Beach in January. > 7 > Maybe we can invite Andrew Harrison  to North Cott ;)   / I believe sharks are fussy about what they eat.-   > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.0B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.     -- R Regards, Dave.VI -------------------------------------------------------------------------dI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.com I DBS software at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm-I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennonl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 03:29:15 GMTn2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>& Subject: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code7 Message-ID: <fM3O5.7826$Qz2.291411@typhoon.aracnet.com>.  L I've had a VAXstation 4000-90 without any RAM for a couple years now, and asL of yesterday I've got a VAXstation 4000-60 with enough 16MB SIMMs that I can test out the -90.$  J I pulled 4 16MB SIMMs and installed them as per the Service Manual for theL -90.  Upon turning the -90 on it gives me a error code of "F2h".  Looking atK the list of error codes in the service manual I don't see this one listed. u Does anyone know what it means?y  K I'm assuming the -90 is dead, and I suspected that when I got it, but would- like to verify.   I Is the PowerSupply or anything else from the -90 usable as spares for thej -60?   			Zane    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 03:34:54 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")+ Subject: VMS MAIL, SMTP transports, headersp8 Message-ID: <009F2C7A.44497DDB@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  	 VMSers --   M The system on which I'm seeing this problem is an Alphaserver 2100 5/300 with'J two processors, running VMS 7.2-1 and PMDF 6.0-24, but I'm pretty sure theN problem is structural, and has only been exposed because we have more and more( users at our site on an Exchange server.  D Those users who used to read mail from VMS and now use Exchange haveI forwarding set for their accounts, eg IN%"user@slac.stanford.edu".  (It'sDK not set to go  to user@exchange.slac.stanford.edu directly because the namedE of the Exchange server could change at any time.  Mail for users with I addresses like this  get a trip through the PMDF directory channel, which6C checks against a local copy of the sitewide mail router database to F determine where they  should be delivered, and if it's to the Exchange= server, it goes out on the tcp_exchange channel to Exchange.)r  J I think the problem would occur even if the place of the Exchange box wereH taken by, say, a Unix box, and even if we were using the mail transports> from Multinet or UCX.  (We're running Multinet, incidentally.)   Here's the problem:    MAIL> SEND/NOED/CC* To: localuser1,exchangeuser1,exchangeuser2, CC: exchangeuser3, exchangeuser4, localuser2  H The local users will get a copy of the message that shows the To and the CC as I typed them.t  8 The Exchange users get a copy of the message that shows   ; To: exchangeuser1,exchangeuser2,exchangeuser3,exchangeuser4c  : and no CC and no local users, although there's also a nice  	 X-VMS-To: 
 X-VMS-CC:   H that show what I actually typed.  Naturally, this problem showed up whenE somebody spent an important message to a mixed group of users, peopleeE on Exchange replied-to-all and not everybody who should have seen thet reply did.    H There's a big push to move the entire site to Exchange.  I don't want toC give them more reason to take mail services off VMS, which has been0G an extremely stable and reliable platform (compared, to, say, Exchange,kI which spent 16 hours offline last weekend because they had to rebuild the6) whole database from incremental backups).t  C As far as I can tell, MAIL is bundling up everything that goes by apK particular transport - whether directly or through forwarding - and sending D it off in one package.  The IN% transport (that's the transport thatG invokes PMDF) only gets told about that the stuff that it's supposed to H carry.  MAIL doesn't seem to be making a distinction between To: and CC:( when it comes to invoking the transport.  D As an extremely bogus workaround, I tried forwarding my own email to@ IN%"_winston@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu" - the "_" inhibits further I forwarding - and sending to myself and exchangeuser1.  This worked to thevI extent that I showed up in the headers on the Exchange server, but didn't J work when I tried to distinguish between To: and Cc:.  I would really hateJ to have to set forwarding for every user on the system, and waste the time= and processing of a trip through PMDF on every mail delivery.c  H I'm willing to accept the argument that MAIL doesn't know anything aboutE the internet and it's up to the mail transport to handle this stuff.  J Indeed, the answer over at Innosoft is to just give up on VMS MAIL and useK PMDF MAIL, which would be something of a retraining effort for those users cI who haven't already jumped over to Outlook.  However, it seems to me that K VMS mail does know the difference between To: and CC:, and ought to be able  to preserve that distinction.h  H [I have administrative users who claim that this distinction is materialG because if you're on the To: list you're supposed to take action and if & you're on the CC: list it's just FYI.]  I Is there any other workaround?  Is the loss of the To:/CC: distinction a  D reportable bug that might get fixed?  Does this work any differently$ between the new and old MAIL images?   Thanks,t   -- AlanR  O ===============================================================================c0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056hM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210uO ===============================================================================a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 00:45:47 -0400y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a/ Subject: Re: VMS MAIL, SMTP transports, headerst, Message-ID: <3A08DA78.FCF2CA47@videotron.ca>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:E > As far as I can tell, MAIL is bundling up everything that goes by atM > particular transport - whether directly or through forwarding - and sending0 > it off in one package.  M Correct, Each package contains a list of destinations to deliver (enveloppe), M as well as a "textual" list of TOs, and CCs (content) as they were typed. The8L mail transport uses the envelope only to deliver the message, and must parse2 the content fields to extract the other usernames.  J In the case of pmdf, it will get a list of adresses that were entered thatE were destined to IN% and those will be "parsed" adresses. And when itoL processed the contents, it will get the list of TOs and CCs each on one lineG and must parse that list to extact individual names and convert them to G whatever syntax to make those replyable once delivered on the internet.a    J > carry.  MAIL doesn't seem to be making a distinction between To: and CC:* > when it comes to invoking the transport.  L Correct, as far as delivery information is concerned. But the transport alsoK gets one string containing all the TOs (separated by comas), and one stringu containing all the CCs.   M You will note that this behaviour is identical to SMTP where the system first K sends a list of adreses to be delivered using RCPT TO: no matter if it is a2G TO, CC or BCC, and it is in the contents of the message (after the DATAaL command) that a header containing the list of readable and replyable TOs and CCs is written.O  G So, your problem is how PMDF builds that header that is included in thes contents of the message.  I Perhaps there is a way to build some rules with PMDF to translate "local"oF adresses into SMTP adresses instead of having them listed as X-VMS-To:   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 14:08:44 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)" Subject: Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN6 Message-ID: <8u92dc$g4p$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  a In article <3A0768C7.9B7B035C@beldar.com>, "Craig D. Lansing (root)" <lansing@beldar.com> writes:- :...As a little background, weC :have several applications that communicate with each other via BSDRC :sockets on an HP-9000 (HP-UX), HP-3000 (MPE), and Windows 9x.  AlliI :mesages are ASCII text < .5K in length.  This is all written in C and iss! :portable across all platforms.  s  C   I'd tend to expect code that follows ANSI C standards and relatedeE   standards to be directly portable to OpenVMS, as well.  IP (socket) =   communications are quite commonly used on OpenVMS, as well.6  J :                                  We are looking at replacing some of theG :applications with a product that runs on DEC Alphas written in FORTRANi :(77 I think).    C   Preserving the network-level communications traffic, presumably. d  B :              The vendor says that we need to replace the socketsH :communication with serial  (RS-232) connections between the systems via :a terminal server.   E   Terminal servers regularly communicate with OpenVMS systems via IP NB   and via a protocol known as LAT.  The host is presented with theB   appearance of a serial protocol, but IP or LAT is the underlyingC   protocol used to implement this.  From the terminal server out to @   the target device, serial communications are (obviously) used.  s; :                   This seems to be a huge step backward. w  E   Yes, it does.  Some background on the application requirements and gD   on the particular system and network configuration would be rather   interesting.  N :Is anyone familiar with whether or not sockets will work on a VMS platform?    F   It does seem unusual -- BSD-style sockets work just fine on OpenVMS,G   as well as an ioctl-style ($qio) interface directly into the drivers.lB   Asynchronous and synchronous coding is possible, with the formerF   available via threading, or via an OpenVMS construct known as an ASTG   (Asynchronous System Trap; a routine that activates at the completiontE   of a specified event, without particular regard to the current code )   executing in the application mainline.)e  " :Can this be written in FORTRAN?    G   Yes.  The Fortran can access $qio, and can also -- though it would be-F   unusual -- access the socket routines.  The Fortran code can also beE   mixed with C code as needed, as mixed-language programming is fullyNH   supported.  (I'd tend to have the Fortran code call C, and have the C F   code call the socket routines -- this because the socket applicationH   programming interface (API) tends to assume C argument constructs and J   semantics, and not Fortran semantics.  That said, it is possible to get G   Fortran to pass arguments using C argument passing semantics.  It is     also somewhat more work.)   & :I doubt that we can get the vendor toG :change his mind, but I am mostly just curious about whether or not thee :capability exists.o  G   The capability quite certainly exists, but I'd wonder why the vendor lG   would make this statement -- I can think of a variety of reasons, of tH   course, and a supporting rational would be interesting and potentiallyH   educational.  The vendor quite clearly can have supporting background H   information on the application that is not (presently) available here.  G   Please note that I do distinguish the socket API from the $qio API insF   this posting, but the remote end of the IP connection has absolutelyE   no idea which API is in use -- the messages that are traversing theiF   network via TCP or UDP or otherwise are all the same, regardless of G   the particular OpenVMS IP API used.  In other words, your programmerstH   can freely choose the most appropriate API (and programming language, E   etc) to interface to the wire-level (network-level) communications oD   protocol, without adverse effect on any other participants in the *   application's IP network communications.    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 21:22:04 GMTo0 From: sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com (Warren Sander), Subject: Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page* Message-ID: <8u9rps$a1u@usenet.pa.dec.com>   re: y2k and OpenVMS pages...  E Just so you know I'm planning to retire the OpenVMS y2k pages at the  E end of the year. They haven't been a bother so I haven't removed them & but they are getting old and crufty...     --  B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingD Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@compaq.comB 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875 6    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself /           Read http://www.openvms.digital.com/  B ------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:43:06 +0100>  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>, Subject: Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page+ Message-ID: <VA.0000015d.20ed11e0@sture.ch>e  1 In article <8u8sa5$927$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  wrote:t  F > Intelligence is being able to listen to the William Tell overture...9 >                  ...without thinking of the Lone Rangera > ; Nah. It should start out with "Culture is being able to..."   H PS Guess what tune my mobile phone plays (the entire office sings along 	 too :-) )l   PPS note my email address ;-)k ___  Paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 14:33:47 -0800n! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comn, Subject: Re: Where's the Y2K compliance pageD Message-ID: <OF9B6D7C74.4408D586-ON88256990.007AEA2F@foundation.com>  J I don't think of the Lone Ranger. I think of a sketch by an English comedyG duo called Hale and Pace. They were backed by a full choir, singing theiJ William Tell overture phonetically, and they had props. It was hillarious.K If anyone happens to have that on USA format VHS video tape, I will pay for 9 a copy. Culture and intelligence did not feature heavily.e  I For those Bloody Colonials on the list who only know Hale and Pace from anH few sketches on Oh No, Mr. Bill, I would like to point out you have onlyE seen the sanitized, harmless stuff. They do a "kitten in a microwave" K sketch that I think ranks up there with the parrot sketch, and their "BillyyG and Johnny" perverted childrens television presenters are sheer genius.  American censorship, sigh.   Shane           4 Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> on 11/07/2000 12:43:06 PM   Please respond to paul@sture.chh   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh cc:s  - Subject:  Re: Where's the Y2K compliance pagee    1 In article <8u8sa5$927$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  wrote:   F > Intelligence is being able to listen to the William Tell overture...9 >                  ...without thinking of the Lone Rangerr > ; Nah. It should start out with "Culture is being able to..."F  G PS Guess what tune my mobile phone plays (the entire office sings along0	 too :-) )0   PPS note my email address ;-)d ___n Paul   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.624 ************************          