1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 08 Nov 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 625       Contents:G RE: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq su	pport F Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportF Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support A DEC history site?  Re: A DEC history site?  Re: Alpha equivalent Re: Alpha equivalent Re: Alpha equivalent Alpha Hardware Experts...Help ! RE: Alpha Hardware Experts...Help ! Re: Alpha Hardware Experts...Help - Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86 - Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86 - Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86  Re: Broken TK50  Bug in PIPE: please check. Re: Bug in PIPE: please check. Re: Bug in PIPE: please check. Re: Cluster Problem  Re: Cluster Problem ! Re: DECnet 5 -> 4 routing problem ! Re: DECnet 5 -> 4 routing problem ( Direct access filesystem - clusters/sans Re: eBay (guess what) again.% Re: Ethernet failure on MicroVAX 3400 @ Re: Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation.< Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation. Re: Galaxy doubt% Good news (ironical) from Sun service / Good suggestions for XFC SHOW MEM/CACHE display 5 I've added a DE500-BA NIC to my 255/300... boot hang? ! OpenVMS 7.1-2 and cluster forming  Re: OpenVMS on 5300  Re: OpenVMS on 5300 = Re: Oracle/VMS performance problems with Multithreaded Server   PDC and BDC in two different LAN$ Re: PDC and BDC in two different LAN  Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMS Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform
 Re: Time Zone ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code 2 Re: VIOC max transfer blocks before cache bypassed2 Re: VIOC max transfer blocks before cache bypassed& Re: VMS MAIL, SMTP transports, headers' RE: VMS VMAIL, SMTP transports, headers ' RE: VMS VMAIL, SMTP transports, headers  Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN % Where's C's PRV$M_READALL & _GRPPRV ? ) Re: Where's C's PRV$M_READALL & _GRPPRV ? # Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page # Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page # Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page # Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page % www.northernlight.com using Solaris ? ) Re: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ? ) Re: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 05:01:01 -0800 1 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com> P Subject: RE: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq su	pportA Message-ID: <7DF45F22D904D31192EE00805F578DF207F253@NY_EXCHANGE1>   J Re: TPU vs. EDT on finding the end of line, -- this from the HELP command:    SET CURSOR BOUND    ?    Enables bound cursor motion, similar to that in EDT and WPS.        Usage notes:    G    o  A bound cursor cannot move into unused portions of the buffer (or K       "whitespace"). For example, if you are at the end of a line and press F       the right arrow, the cursor moves to the start of the next line.F       Conceptually, the cursor follows the shape or flow of your text.   I    o  The cursor setting affects MOVE commands (arrow keys), NEXT SCREEN, -       PREV SCREEN, and some EDT and WPS keys.    J    o  When you use SET CURSOR BOUND, if the cursor is in an unused portion ofI       the buffer (sometimes called "whitespace"), EVE moves the cursor to  the 1       nearest text (an effect called "snapping").    J    o  Default is SET CURSOR FREE---you can move the cursor anywhere in the9       buffer whether characters are already there or not.    L So, pressing the "2" key on the keypad, the same as in the EDT editor, jumpsE the cursor to the end of the line (if forward motion is the default).    Mike Farrell   > -----Original Message-----' > From:	Paul Sture [SMTP:paul@sture.ch] * > Sent:	Tuesday, November 07, 2000 3:43 PM > To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com B > Subject:	Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a > Compaq support > A > In article <3A082AD6.597D2C2@digital.com>, Mike Rechtman wrote: 6 > > From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> > > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms K > > Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq 	 > support ) > > Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:16:22 +0900  > >  > > Paul Sture wrote:  > > > H > > > In article <YkkJJ$it8pvf@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>, Ken Fairfield; > SLAC: 650-926-2924;  > >  > > > > [...big snip...] > > J > > > TPU can't search for the end of a line. Yes it can search for ^M and > ^J (using ^V), but/ > > > it won't find ^M as the record delimiter.  > > E > > It _can_ search for end-of-line (as opposed to ^M or ^J) by using B > > wildcard search (PF1-Find on my keyboard) and searching for \>% > > (similarly \< for line beginning)  > > # > > Or did I miss the point here...  > > @ > Point taken :) Just tried it and it does what you say. Thanks. > J > But in its earlier incarnations (before V5.4???) I didn't manage to find > it. I simply got  C > used to using the tool which would do the job with the minumum of  > efficiency for me. > K > Which is really what this thread is about. Each of us have developed ways  > of working which  I > suit us, given the options available (sometimes hardware and/or lack of  > manuals) and time + > pressures given at some time in the past.  >  > ___  > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:50:04 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support ) Message-ID: <3A093DEC.562A4FDC@bbc.co.uk>    Paul Sture wrote:   F > In article <3a0695e1.2406771063@news.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig wrote:G >  I note that SUMSLP is still here on Alpha V.7.2-1, although I cannot  > remember how to run it.  >   8 Edit /sum, well its there on AXP 7.1 and VAX 7.2 anyway.  H I wouldn't have a clue how to use it without consulting the docs though.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 08:16:50 -0500 , From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support + Message-ID: <Xns6U5q4MdmT@eisner.decus.org>   Y In article <3A093DEC.562A4FDC@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes: , >                                           : > Edit /sum, well its there on AXP 7.1 and VAX 7.2 anyway. > J > I wouldn't have a clue how to use it without consulting the docs though. >   H Mostly usefull for ingesting changes recorded with diff/sum.  Reminds meH of the way we used to insert change cards to an on disk card deck image.E It appears that the internals of CMS and sccs are in part implemented  using similar concepts.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 15:40:43 +0100 0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr> Subject: A DEC history site?) Message-ID: <3A0965EB.F052F8D@Easynet.fr>   G Where can I find a site featuring the DEC history? With pictures of the $ Mass. plants, the Mill, people, etc.   Thanks,  D. --   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 16:56:38 +0100 ( From: Bernd Eckstein <B.Eckstein@cli.de>  Subject: Re: A DEC history site?& Message-ID: <3A0977B6.A2ECCEC9@cli.de>   Didier Morandi wrote:  > I > Where can I find a site featuring the DEC history? With pictures of the & > Mass. plants, the Mill, people, etc. > . http://www.compaq.com/Alphaserver/vax/archive// http://www.compaq.com/AlphaServer/vax/timeline/ + http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/20th/    enjoy.   --  G Neben einem Hund ist ein Buch eines Mannes bester Freund. In einem Hund G ist es zu dunkel zum lesen.                              (Groucho Marx)   ( Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regardsC B.Eckstein, CLI GmbH - mailto:B.Eckstein@cli.de - http://www.cli.de C Matthiashofstr. 28, D-52064 Aachen - Fon: +49 241 47051-0, Fax: -89    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:52:39 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Alpha equivalent ) Message-ID: <3A093E87.F3FBAD44@bbc.co.uk>    "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:   M > The infamous Ollie North got stung by the retrieval of old E-mail in an IBM M > mainframe "PROFS" environment.  Think of that as ALL-IN-1 Version 0.1.  Was 3 > that perhaps the ancient E-mail that they dumped?  > % >                                 RDP  >    Richard   M Note the original quote from Alan "since phasing out VMS in favour of PC mail 	 systems".    Regards    >  > Randy Jung wrote:  > > > > "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message' > > news:3A06E2B6.5D1C7DDB@bbc.co.uk...  > > >  > > >  > > > Alan Greig wrote:  > > > 	 > > > > > M > > > > > > Not directly Oracle related but the Wihitehouse is moving back to  > > VMS P > > > > > > for its mail backbone as they haven't been able to get anything likeL > > > > > > their old reliability since phasing out VMS in favour of PC mail > > > > > > systems. [...]     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 09:38:43 -0500 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: Alpha equivalent + Message-ID: <3A096573.D63A3A2F@hsc.vcu.edu>   ! hhmm.. YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!!!!!!!    J.   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Jim Agnew wrote: > > { > > Damn... never thought it out thataway...  Clinton makes me wish Nixon was still around so I could vote for him again...  > N > Oh, come on. Clinton has been one of the best entertaining presidents in theP > history of the USA. He gave comedians a record amount of joke material. He wasF > a good politician. (that is what politicians are for, aren't they ?)   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:23:19 GMT- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>  Subject: Re: Alpha equivalent ( Message-ID: <3A0856A0.B88E282C@ohio.edu>  K The infamous Ollie North got stung by the retrieval of old E-mail in an IBM K mainframe "PROFS" environment.  Think of that as ALL-IN-1 Version 0.1.  Was 1 that perhaps the ancient E-mail that they dumped?   #                                 RDP      Randy Jung wrote:   < > "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message% > news:3A06E2B6.5D1C7DDB@bbc.co.uk...  > >  > >  > > Alan Greig wrote:  > >  > > > > K > > > > > Not directly Oracle related but the Wihitehouse is moving back to  > VMS N > > > > > for its mail backbone as they haven't been able to get anything likeJ > > > > > their old reliability since phasing out VMS in favour of PC mail > > > > > systems. [...] > > > > 5 > > > >         Interesting.  Do you have a reference  > > > : > > > Steve Hoffman, DECUS, London: VMS Future, last week. > > > > > Now, I wonder who told them to dump their VMS solution and > > deploy Exchange? > > 6 > > enough to make you weep if what I suspect is true. > >  > M > This tweeks my memory. I'm not sure if I remember this correctly or not but K > a long time ago I was on a course (DECnet/OSI) with a system manager that L > worked in the Whitehouse. Apparently after the Clinton administration cameI > in they were shocked by the primitive (i.e. not PC GUI) mail system the N > Whitehouse had. That may have been the cause for the dumping of the VMS mailM > system (I think he said it was All-in-1 but that was too long ago for me to J > rely on my memory).  Maybe someone on the newgroup knows the real story.N > Will this cause the critical VMS swing vote to vote Republican tomorrow :-)? >  > >  > > --: > > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project4 > > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.E > > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  > > E > > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > > MedAS or the BBC.  > > 	 > Cheers,  >  > Randy    --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 16:31:29 GMT " From: fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com>& Subject: Alpha Hardware Experts...Help) Message-ID: <8ubv51$q40$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   F Thanks to all of you who suggested vendors to me a few weeks ago. I've= finally got people calling me trying to sell me equipment. =)   E But now comes the troubling part...shopping for Alpha Hardware. We're F looking at a DS20, but as we know the trend in hardware (Alpha, Intel,H Sparc...) is to detached storage. We have a Xiotech Storage Area NetworkA Solution for the Intel and Sparcs, but sadly there are no OpenVMS  drivers.  H We run Oracle here, and we know we need lots of disks in our new system.F That said, our database (and user community) is pretty small. Ideally,H we're looking at 18 disks, 16 online, one hot space, and one cold spare.E We could scale that down a little, as our data actually consumes only D ~16 gigs. The only disk storage we've looked at is the RA3000, whichH seems a little...big. I saw on Compaq's website there is a 4100 which isC a 12 disk cabnet, but it only works with the DS10 and the ES40? Can D anyone offer any suggestions (part numbers) as to something a littleG more reasonable for our needs? It's not that we're not willing to spend G the money, but I think a loaded RA3000 is overkill for 20 people and 16 
 gigs of data.    Thanks,  John   --- ********************************************* ( "All I every wanted from life was to see, Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl Necklace."    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:33:35 -0500 / From: "Webb, William W" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> * Subject: RE: Alpha Hardware Experts...HelpI Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB7502CB2D2@rlghncst625.usps.gov>    John:   % Have you looked at the Golden Eggs?     ) They're a good place to check off what's  ) supported/configurable so you can narrow   your detailed research.   ' http://www.compaq.com/info/golden-eggs/    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----0 From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET + Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 11:48 AM 6 To: Webb, William W; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET& Subject: Alpha Hardware Experts...Help    F Thanks to all of you who suggested vendors to me a few weeks ago. I've= finally got people calling me trying to sell me equipment. =)   E But now comes the troubling part...shopping for Alpha Hardware. We're F looking at a DS20, but as we know the trend in hardware (Alpha, Intel,H Sparc...) is to detached storage. We have a Xiotech Storage Area NetworkA Solution for the Intel and Sparcs, but sadly there are no OpenVMS  drivers.  H We run Oracle here, and we know we need lots of disks in our new system.F That said, our database (and user community) is pretty small. Ideally,H we're looking at 18 disks, 16 online, one hot space, and one cold spare.E We could scale that down a little, as our data actually consumes only D ~16 gigs. The only disk storage we've looked at is the RA3000, whichH seems a little...big. I saw on Compaq's website there is a 4100 which isC a 12 disk cabnet, but it only works with the DS10 and the ES40? Can D anyone offer any suggestions (part numbers) as to something a littleG more reasonable for our needs? It's not that we're not willing to spend0G the money, but I think a loaded RA3000 is overkill for 20 people and 16r
 gigs of data.o   Thanks,r John   --- ********************************************* ( "All I every wanted from life was to see, Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl Necklace."    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 18:04:53 GMTs" From: fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com>* Subject: Re: Alpha Hardware Experts...Help) Message-ID: <8uc4jv$va8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>T  H Sadly, I can't make Compaq put more than four drive bays in a DS20, or 1
 in the DS10L.   + In article <6eh0SMCyIEkv@eisner.decus.org>, <   Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:H > In article <8ubv51$q40$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:b > C > > But now comes the troubling part...shopping for Alpha Hardware.t We'resC > > looking at a DS20, but as we know the trend in hardware (Alpha,  Intel,% > > Sparc...) is to detached storage.n >uB > You should be guided by your own needs, rather than "the trend". >t   --- ********************************************* ( "All I every wanted from life was to see, Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl Necklace."   /* John Eisenschmidt , fooguy AT AT AT eisenschmidt DOT DOT DOT org (you know the drill) */    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 09:45:19 GMTe1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au> 6 Subject: Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ866 Message-ID: <Pg9O5.20$aQ6.5581@nostril.pacific.net.au>  & Dale A. Marcy <dqm@y12.doe.gov> wrote: > Group,  O >      I have a user that has to transfer files via tape from one VAX system toEM > another VAX system on a non regular basis.  He had to do it today, the lastaP > time was approximately a month ago, but it is not at a specific interval.  TheM > problem is that the system that is writing the tape is a VAXstation 4000-60eM > running VMS V7.1 using a TZ87 drive, so when the tape is mounted on the VAX'M > 4000-500A also running VMS V7.1, but using a TZ86 drive, it cannot read the L > TZ87 format.  I can and have each time forced the TZ87 to emulate the TZ86O > format, but I would like to automate this so that it does not need to be doneiM > each time.  The user is using a Backup/Rewind command to create the tape on-P > the writing node.  Is there a qualifier that can be used on the backup commandK > to force the TZ87 to write at the TZ86 density?  I looked at the /DensityuP > qualifier, but I thought it was for the old reel to reel tapes and if it wouldK > work for this, I did not know the bits per inch to specify to emulate thesJ > TZ86.  Any help would be appreciated.  Hopefully, I have provided enoughN > information here.  I do not have the exact backup command, but could find itE > out if needed.  I know that the backup command does not specify anyd > /Media_Format.  	 > Thanks,    > Dale A. MarcyF0 > Science Applications International Corporation  = 	Just a suggestion : Try to INITIALIZE the tapes on the lower A 	density drive, the TZ86, and DO NOT initialize the cartridges onw> 	the higher density drive, the TZ87. I think this way the TZ87@ 	will read them, as there should be some backward compatibility.C 	( Tapes already initialised on the TZ87 might not be reinitialisediA 	on the TZ86, only after heavy degaussing, but I am not sure, yout@ 	could try it... ). There is a chart somewhere with the backward? 	compatibility data, which drives should be reading what tapes,-? 	maybe on the Compaq website? or in the FAQ. I hope this helps.a   					Cheers,		Csabar  I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------TE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehog E    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.	I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------M;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:R   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:55:39 +0000A- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e6 Subject: Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86) Message-ID: <3A093F3B.632597D5@bbc.co.uk>c   "Dale A. Marcy" wrote:   > Group, > O >      I have a user that has to transfer files via tape from one VAX system to M > another VAX system on a non regular basis.  He had to do it today, the lastcP > time was approximately a month ago, but it is not at a specific interval.  TheM > problem is that the system that is writing the tape is a VAXstation 4000-60 M > running VMS V7.1 using a TZ87 drive, so when the tape is mounted on the VAX M > 4000-500A also running VMS V7.1, but using a TZ86 drive, it cannot read the L > TZ87 format.  I can and have each time forced the TZ87 to emulate the TZ86O > format, but I would like to automate this so that it does not need to be doneoM > each time.  The user is using a Backup/Rewind command to create the tape oneP > the writing node.  Is there a qualifier that can be used on the backup commandK > to force the TZ87 to write at the TZ86 density?  I looked at the /DensityiP > qualifier, but I thought it was for the old reel to reel tapes and if it wouldK > work for this, I did not know the bits per inch to specify to emulate the(J > TZ86.  Any help would be appreciated.  Hopefully, I have provided enoughN > information here.  I do not have the exact backup command, but could find itE > out if needed.  I know that the backup command does not specify anyr > /Media_Format. >m  D Either initialize the tapes on the TZ86 drive or force the TZ87 intoD TZ86 mode on the front panel  using the Density Select button before initializing on the TZ87.   -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofl MedAS or the BBC.w   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 19:57:21 GMT,* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)6 Subject: Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86. Message-ID: <8u9mr1$a5u$3@info.service.rug.nl>  ; In article <3A0848D1.2CDB58EE@y12.doe.gov>, "Dale A. Marcy"p <dqm@y12.doe.gov> writes:   O >      I have a user that has to transfer files via tape from one VAX system tomM > another VAX system on a non regular basis.  He had to do it today, the lastlP > time was approximately a month ago, but it is not at a specific interval.  TheM > problem is that the system that is writing the tape is a VAXstation 4000-60nM > running VMS V7.1 using a TZ87 drive, so when the tape is mounted on the VAX,M > 4000-500A also running VMS V7.1, but using a TZ86 drive, it cannot read thewL > TZ87 format.  I can and have each time forced the TZ87 to emulate the TZ86O > format, but I would like to automate this so that it does not need to be doneaM > each time.  The user is using a Backup/Rewind command to create the tape onaP > the writing node.  Is there a qualifier that can be used on the backup commandK > to force the TZ87 to write at the TZ86 density?  I looked at the /Density P > qualifier, but I thought it was for the old reel to reel tapes and if it wouldK > work for this, I did not know the bits per inch to specify to emulate the J > TZ86.  Any help would be appreciated.  Hopefully, I have provided enoughN > information here.  I do not have the exact backup command, but could find itE > out if needed.  I know that the backup command does not specify any  > /Media_Format.  H A while back, I asked but never got a (to me) satisfactory answer about E a similar problem regarding TLZ (DAT) devices.  That is, what is the eG relation between device name, length of tapes, compression, DDS level,  C /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION, /DENSITY, how much will fit on the tape, d+ compatibility between different drives etc.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 17:56:29 GMTl+ From: John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net>c Subject: Re: Broken TK50> Message-ID: <MPG.14720c54bb98ac5a989690@news.bellatlantic.net>  - In article <rdeininger-0711000107240001@user-.A 2ivecb8.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com says... X > In article <3A072D05.8D138C4B@hotmail.com>, Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com> wrote: > L > > If you're going to clean the heads with alcohol, be sure to use at leastL > > 91% alcohol.  The epoxy that holds the heads in place are water soluableM > > and the heads will eventually  "float" if you do not use the best you can0F > > get.  We (Dec field service) always used TEX Pads or TEX Wands.  IL > > beleive that some of the other boys had a TK50 cleaning kit, but I neverK > > used it.  I think the customers had a cleaning tape, but don't quote mee > > on that. > I > I rescued a TK50 cleaning kit from the dumpster.  It has some swabs andsH > a bottle of some sort of freon.  It's a good bottle.  The stuff hasn't1 > leaked out or evaporated after all these years.r > * > I've never seen a cleaning tape for TKs.  C We have a TK50/TK70 cleaning kit at work.  It consists of a plasticaC cartridge emulator (funny looking piece of plastic that fits in therA drive slot and guides the cleaning bits), some flat plastic wands A with a soft pad glued to one end that slide through the guide and A into the head mechanism), and some little bottles of of isopropyl E alcohol that the labels imply come originally from a printer cleaningt kit!  > The alcohol bottles are glass inside a cardboard tube, and youB squeeze the tube hard enough to break the glass.  Then the alcoholA comes out one end of the tube, where there are bristles forming atC little brush.  You brush the alcohol onto the pad on the wand, thenlC slide the wand into the guide and then slide it in and out a coupleoE of inches about 20 times to clean the head.  Through away the alcohol-D tube and the wand.  The kit came with about a dozen tubes and wands,E and I think there was a refill kit (no guide) with about 20 tubes and. wands for 1/2 the price.  B I have a cleaning cartridge for DLT's (TK85 and up), but they warn! you not to use it on TK50/TK70's.e  C Meanwhile, back on the ranch...  I cleaned the drive, re-assembled,r? reseated controller cable, and now the VAX sees the TK50 again.nH Still won't mount the tape, $ mount/for mua0: gives "device not softwareA enabled" and/or "medium is offline", and the error log is showing E "tachometer failure" errors.  I shined a light inside the drive while E it was trying to mount and saw the supply side capstan and the takeuprE reel were spinning for about 1-2 seconds and then pausing for about 4lE seconds, always in the forward direction.  After about 10-15 minutes,rC it seemed to give up.  Pressing and releasing the red button had noOE effect.  I think this is consistent with a tach failure.  Anyone everr< replaced one on a TK50?  Or is easier just to get a new one?   --   John Santos    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:29:31 +0100 (CET)s: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl># Subject: Bug in PIPE: please check. I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011081214050.3799-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>   7  Have found a definite PIPE inconsistency; regarding toe HELP the syntax:   $ PIPE (command &)  >  even, if may be problematic say if not required extra spaces:   $ PIPE ( command & )     is correct and suposed to work.  8  The example will not work for me for any command, where; uses user-mode program (at least haven't see any time work)e; and works randomly with supervisor-mode command and commandc procedures, as in examples:a  " $ pipe ( dir & )	! Will never work  + $ pipe ( show time & )	! Will sometime workr    8-NOV-2000 11:21:05 $ pipe ( show time & ) $ pipe ( show time & )    8-NOV-2000 11:21:06  >  The "probability of work" is not depended of the time between PIPE commands.  > BTW: The expected bahaviour is usefull for "command shortcut",9  when allows parallel run of "in the process" and "out ofh8  the process" command in one (the examples are minimised  for check !).  A  System: AXP VMS 7.2-1, not patched, but have check all suspectedy, READMEs for the word PIPE and haven't found.    Any comments ??@  Can anyone confirm on differrent VMS version the bug, or inform' that with some patches PIPE will work ?w    Regards - Gotfryd   -- ,E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEe. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE ======================================================================   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 12:13:57 GMTP1 From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi>y' Subject: Re: Bug in PIPE: please check. 2 Message-ID: <01c0497d$b2eba060$9d08a8c0@rlhkikker>  J Works as you described in AXP VMS 7.2-1H1 with all latest patches and also 7.3-FT1. Interesting.    -Kari-  C Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote in articler@ <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011081214050.3799-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>... > 9 >  Have found a definite PIPE inconsistency; regarding to  > HELP the syntax: >  > $ PIPE (command &) > @ >  even, if may be problematic say if not required extra spaces: >  > $ PIPE ( command & ) > " >  is correct and suposed to work. > : >  The example will not work for me for any command, where= > uses user-mode program (at least haven't see any time work)l= > and works randomly with supervisor-mode command and commandn > procedures, as in examples:e > $ > $ pipe ( dir & )	! Will never work > - > $ pipe ( show time & )	! Will sometime worka >    8-NOV-2000 11:21:05 > $ pipe ( show time & ) > $ pipe ( show time & ) >    8-NOV-2000 11:21:06 > @ >  The "probability of work" is not depended of the time between > PIPE commands. > @ > BTW: The expected bahaviour is usefull for "command shortcut",; >  when allows parallel run of "in the process" and "out ofu: >  the process" command in one (the examples are minimised >  for check !). > C >  System: AXP VMS 7.2-1, not patched, but have check all suspectedI. > READMEs for the word PIPE and haven't found. >  >  Any comments ??B >  Can anyone confirm on differrent VMS version the bug, or inform) > that with some patches PIPE will work ?* >  >  Regards - Gotfryd >  > -- eG > ===================================================================== H > $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - > 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEe0 > $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plG > =====================================================================p >  >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 13:06:13 GMTn* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)' Subject: Re: Bug in PIPE: please check.t. Message-ID: <8ubj45$rar$1@info.service.rug.nl>  A In article <01c0497d$b2eba060$9d08a8c0@rlhkikker>, "Kari Keronen" % <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi> writes: -  L > Works as you described in AXP VMS 7.2-1H1 with all latest patches and also > 7.3-FT1. Interesting.b   7.2-1:   $  pipe ( show time & )  $  pipe ( show time & )H $  pipe ( show time & )     8-NOV-2000 14:09:45 $  pipe ( show time & )e $  pipe ( show time & )i    8-NOV-2000 14:09:46 $  pipe ( show time & )i $  pipe ( show time & )e $  pipe ( show time & )o $  pipe ( show time & )  $  pipe ( show time & ), $  pipe ( show time & )  $  pipe ( show time & ), $  pipe ( show time & )d $  pipe ( show time & )c $  pipe ( show time & )o    8-NOV-2000 14:09:53 $  pipe ( show time & )a $  pipe ( show time & )  $  pipe ( show time & )  $  pipe ( show time & )i    8-NOV-2000 14:09:56 $t  & "Curiouser and curiouser", said Alice.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 09:21:16 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: Cluster Problem. Message-ID: <8ub5uc$nd3$2@info.service.rug.nl>  F In article <G3oF1E.BIE@world.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:   . > helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes: > K > >Let me back up a bit.  Imagine a cluster where all disks are physically mG > >connected only to one node.  Unless one does some fancy footwork to hI > >synchronise the booting of several machines, when a given node boots, vI > >some disks will be either already mounted on other nodes which booted *I > >earlier, or will not be available if connected to nodes which haven't  K > >yet booted.  Either way, it seems that each machine, when it boots, has tK > >to MOUNT the disks somehow.  Of course, if one waits until all machines eC > >are up, then one MOUNT/CLUSTER will do it, but things should be  9 > >automatic and work whetever machines are currently up.c > C > In this case the best thing to do is to do a MOUNT/CLUSTER on theuF > server when it comes up, and a MOUNT/SYSTEM on the clients when they
 > come up.   OK....  J > The MOUNT/CLUSTER will mount the disk on all nodes in the cluster at theG > time when the server makes its disks available.  The MOUNT /SYSTEM is E > for nodes that enter the cluster later than the server and want to rH > access the disk. Be sure that there is error handling here if the diskE > is not available (server offline)  Redundant mounts are effectivelyd
 > ignored.  A This means, however, that one has to have different MOUNT.COM or *F whatever files for clients and servers.  What about having each node, G when it boots, execute the same .COM file?  In that case, MOUNT/SYSTEM AF or MOUNT/CLUSTER would have, in the end, the same effect.  The former I would have less overhead per individual command, but the latter might do -I more with the first command so that later ones from other nodes would be   ignored.  O > >> MOUNT /CLUSTER is very similar in effect to a SYSMAN> DO MOUNT /SYSTEM ...D > C > >How does this differ from MOUNT/CLUSTER issued on a single node?e > I > If in a single node cluster (or simply a single node) the MOUNT /SYSTEMaL > and MOUNT /CLUSTER do the same thing.  The /CLUSTER will have a tiny extraH > bit of overhead as it looks for other nodes in the cluster to mount it' > on and, not finding any, finishes up.r  H No, I meant MOUNT/CLUSTER as issued from a single node (not SYSMAN> DO)  in a multi-node cluster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:47:31 +0000i  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: Cluster ProblemH Message-ID: <OF99E2CD19.BD573D51-ON80256991.004A2BED@qedi.quintiles.com>  H But why not define a logical name of DISK_SERVER_TO_CLUSTER in, say, theA system table.  If it's true then do MOUNT/CLUSTER and if not do at
 MOUNT/SYSTEM?   J Alternatively, do a node by node IF THEN ELSE structure with the nodenames% hardcoded into the command procedure.   - One could also set up a set of symbols like :f   $ NAME_DKA100 = "PAGEFILES"h $ NAME_DKA200 = "SWAPFILES"i  J Then, provide each node with a list of disks to mount as either systemwide* or clusterwide with some fixed delimiter :  0 $ NODEA_MNT_LOCAL="DKA100/DKA200/DKA300/DKB205/"& $ NODEA_MNT_CLUSTER = "DKA400/DKA500/" $ NODEA_SHADOWSET_CLUSTER 4 = "DSA500/DKE500/DKF500/DSA10/DSA600/DKA600/DKC200/"  I Each of the lines could then be stepped through as the node boots so thatcH the device name is selected, associated with the volume name and mountedG appropriately.  The shadowset line would have the shadowset device nameTC selected with the physical devices and mounted as one would expect.I  G It is obviously left to the reader to put the code around the ideas....  Steve.  I >>>> The MOUNT/CLUSTER will mount the disk on all nodes in the cluster at  thehG > time when the server makes its disks available.  The MOUNT /SYSTEM isiD > for nodes that enter the cluster later than the server and want toH > access the disk. Be sure that there is error handling here if the diskE > is not available (server offline)  Redundant mounts are effectively-
 > ignored.  @ This means, however, that one has to have different MOUNT.COM orE whatever files for clients and servers.  What about having each node,aF when it boots, execute the same .COM file?  In that case, MOUNT/SYSTEME or MOUNT/CLUSTER would have, in the end, the same effect.  The formerEH would have less overhead per individual command, but the latter might doH more with the first command so that later ones from other nodes would be ignored.  K > >> MOUNT /CLUSTER is very similar in effect to a SYSMAN> DO MOUNT /SYSTEM  ...g >DC > >How does this differ from MOUNT/CLUSTER issued on a single node?, > I > If in a single node cluster (or simply a single node) the MOUNT /SYSTEMtF > and MOUNT /CLUSTER do the same thing.  The /CLUSTER will have a tiny extraeH > bit of overhead as it looks for other nodes in the cluster to mount it' > on and, not finding any, finishes up.t  G No, I meant MOUNT/CLUSTER as issued from a single node (not SYSMAN> DO)i in a multi-node cluster.<<<t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 18:05:00 GMTa+ From: John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net>a* Subject: Re: DECnet 5 -> 4 routing problem> Message-ID: <MPG.14720e5337c20e63989691@news.bellatlantic.net>  A In article <3A07CD94.CEED883A@iee.org>, arcarlini@iee.org says...n > John Santos wrote: > > . > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, antonio.carlini wrote: > > D > > Hmm.  In ncl on the VAX, show routing circuit csmacd-0 adj * all? > > shows the two alphas and the DR250.  The two alphas show asfB > > Phase V endnodes, and the DR250 shows as a Phase IV L2 router.6 > > The "neighbor area" attribute shows as "49::00-01" > > > This is probably right (assuming your VAX is configured as aD > router, which I think you said it was). It should form adjacencies# > to end systems and other routers.f  @ Yes, the VAX is a router (phase V, level 2 (area) router, though5 I think l2 and area concepts only apply to Phase IV.)h  D > > On the Alpha's (at least on the one I checked), the same commandD > > shows the VAX and the DR250 (but not the other Alpha).  It showsC > > the VAX as a Phase V router and the DR250 as a Phase IV router.e@ > > It doesn't display any "neighbor area" attribute for either. > 5 > This is also correct - end systems should only see  C > routers (both Phase V and Phase IV, if Phase IV enabled is true).tI > In the presence of a router, they'll pick one at random, in the absence,> > of any router all they can do is blast out a packet and hope+ > the target end system is on the same LAN.- > B > > Well, I started looking at routing characteristics in NCL.  In@ > > the HELP I found out about "routing mode", which defaults toB > > "integrated".  The help says that this setting will send PhaseJ > > IV packets to the adjacent Phase V router (the VAX), but if changed toE > > segregated, it will send them to the Phase IV router (the DR250.)s > > A > > So I gave it a try and it seems to work!!  Nothing else seemstA > > broken so far.  I don't know why it worked okay to a Phase IV,@ > > node 2 hops away but not to one 3 hops away, but maybe going) > > through the VAX makes it 4 hops...???t > < > Well segregated mode was introduced to avoid problems with< > boxes that run ships-in-the-night rather than ISIS. A true9 > Phase V router (like DECnis or the various WANrouters) h< > has only one routing database. If it learns using Phase IV< > that node FOO lives down wire X it will remember that even: > when Phase V packets arrive. So it has only one internal6 > map of where stuff lives, regardless of the protocol< > used to get there. With SIN, you have one routing database; > for Phase IV and one for Phase V which is fine as long asi4 > you don't try and mix ISIS routers with SIN ones.  > 9 > If you do mix them, the old hack was to make sure that I9 > the SIN router was the highest priority Phase IV router 9 > and then you would have a chance that it would all comec; > out in the wash. Segregated mode was introduced to ensure 8 > that there was a way of guaranteeing correct operation- > in the presence of both ISIS and SIN boxes.s > < > I don't think you should need it here though. Is the DR250 > set up to be an area router?  9 Yes.  Local nodes are all area 1.x  There are currently 2b4 remote areas connected through the DR250: 33.x where6 the problematic node lives, and 4.x, which works fine.= However, the only end node (except for some terminal servers)o? left in area 4 is Phase V, though the area 4 DR250 is phase IV.i  ! > Oh well, at least it works now!0   Yup, so far, so good.b  	 > Antonios   -- o John Santosr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 18:22:03 +0000k+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> * Subject: Re: DECnet 5 -> 4 routing problem' Message-ID: <3A0999CB.786DB10D@iee.org>l   John Santos wrote: > ; > Yes.  Local nodes are all area 1.x  There are currently 2i6 > remote areas connected through the DR250: 33.x where8 > the problematic node lives, and 4.x, which works fine.  0 Just out of curiosity what is the node number of, the DR250 that connects to VAX 6620 (33.11)?  + I cannot remember the relevant NCP commandsg/ but you should be able to find out whether this 0 DR250 sees the VAX as an area router. (I know it+ works in segregated mode but I'm curious as / to how this could fail ... and someone's nicked ! my DR250 so I cannot try it out!)l   Antonios   --     --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgl   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 17:15:07 GMT(' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)i1 Subject: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sanso0 Message-ID: <8uc1mr$35c$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  9 A colleague of mine just pointed out the following url :-n  ! http://www.dafscollaborative.org/s  C I am probably misreading this entirely but it looks like it may be cL talking about something which was raised here sometime ago - the possibilityE of having a standard filesystem/security model for multiple operating G systems which would allow multiple systems to access the same files on e SAN based storage.  I It talks about clustered machines maintaining a table of allowed partner  G servers, secure user authentication , high performance file and record  H locking. Locks being cached in memory and transferred at network speeds.O And states it is designed to be resilient in the face of both client and servera reboots and failures.d  
 The FAQ says c  I "DAFS is designed to allow high speed,fault tolerant, consistent views of M files to a heterogeneous environment of servers that may be running differente operating systems".r    
 It also says e  C "A refence implementation of DAFS should be available in late 2000.aG The first commercial implementations are expected in mid 2000 targeting K the Sun Solaris, Linux and microsoft windows platforms with others expectedh to follow".i  L Is this something Compaq is aware of ? Will there be implementations for VMS and Tru64 ?     l  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 18:33:03 GMTt+ From: Jordan Henderson <jordan@my-deja.com>h% Subject: Re: eBay (guess what) again.t) Message-ID: <8u9hsv$rfu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  * In article <3A07F7B2.FA3B0109@uk.sun.com>,3   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:- > Jordan Henderson wrote:  > >e. > > In article <3A0702A8.C05F6F95@uk.sun.com>,6 > > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > > >Jordan Henderson wrote: > > >> >g4 > > >Nice try but your argument would be a whole lot9 > > >more convincing if you hadn't tried to unsucessfully;6 > > >challenge the factual basis of my statements. You5 > > >obviously felt that the way to defeat FUD was toa3 > > >disprove the statments supporting it. You haveu3 > > >shown by your own posts that there is a directo, > > >relationship between FUD and falsehood. > > >t > >n4 > > I don't know what you are talking about here.  I6 > > often successfully challenge the factual nature of > > what you have to say here. > >  >k > When recently ???????) >W; > We have been talking about Java, none of your attempts toe8 > refute my statments were sucessfull were they. Instead7 > having run out of ideas you started resorting to FUD.e > 2 > We have also been talking about VLM 64bit etc, I3 > don't see any points from you (or anyone else foru) > that matter) that refuted my statments.o  4 This is exactly the point!  I haven't been trying to6 refute your irrelevant "facts", I've been pointing out2 that these facts have been used in a FUD campaign.   >e7 > In fact you could easily argue that 64bit VLM was FUDf  > on a massive scale by Digital. >m  9 Sheesh...  And, the "noose" anti-Microsoft NT campaign byr6 Sun was all FUD as well, right?  Most marketing can be- described as FUD, but that's hardly relevant.A  9 Why people decry FUD is when it's used outside of typicalC7 marketing channels, in informal settings, through rumorz1 campaigns, etc.  This is what you are doing here.=  < > The Digital marketing campaign which can be summarised as: > C > You don't want to get stuck with those small address space 32 bitj	 > systemsj5 > when you know you will need the performance and the48 > additional address space that 64bits provides.  So get > a Digital Alpha Box instead. > > > This contains just enough truth to be plausible, while being5 > in a general sense totally untrue because most appsl2 > didn't need, couldn't use 64bits/VLM and Digital2 > couldn't deliver a box that made things like VLM > effective. >g6 > > I've spent literally weeks pointing out how you've7 > > used facts taken out of context, in isolation, spune7 > > just so, to produce FUD.  Now, you say that I'M thec1 > > one who is giving creedence to this untenable 8 > > position that there is a direct relationship between > > FUD and falsehood? > >t3 > Hang on I would accept this is they were facts in 5 > isolation, but 6 or seven facts and lets list them.  >  > 1.3 isnt available on OpenVMSk7 > 1.2.x was very late on OpenVMS (12 months after other  > platforms)& > There isn't a JVM plugin for OpenVMS1 > Some 1.3 apps don't run on 1.2.2 and vica versa 7 > Some 1.3 apps arn't qualified on 1.2.2 and vica versatE > 1.2.x and plugin is available for Solaris, AIX, Lunix, Win32, HP-UXr > Tru64 etc.? > 1.3 is available for Solaris, Win32, AIX, Linux, Tru64 (beta)o  A All these many facts are just really restatements of the one factrA that OpenVMS is behind in certain aspects of Java technology whencE compared to what Sun/IBM has produced and what's just recently become  available for Linux.  F OpenVMS is behind in support for Java.  So what?  There's a commitmentD to catch up, but nobody at Compaq is putting on hold other importantD development to do it right away.   Sorry, boosting Sun's pet project2 doesn't appear to be #1 in Compaq or HP right now.   >TB > Now this hardly qualifies as "in isolation" unless of course you< > take a rather strange view of the world, now we know thatsA > true of course. You were after all the person who described the-@ > OpenVMS's Java implimentation as being a little behind when in: > fact it is over 12 months behind the bulk of the market.  B The "bulk" of the market.  Aside from IBM/Sun, the recent addition? of the Blackdown port, nobody else has provided those levels of  support.   >@< > > >It was a very carefull, very detailed description which8 > > >ignored one very tiny but very enormously important: > > >point which is that FUD particularly in this group is= > > >used as an attempt to suggest that the person publishing5? > > >the aledged FUD is lying. It does not matter how carefully0@ > > >you construct your definition, its the useage that matters. > > >  > >t> > > This is incredible!  YOU are the only person in this group? > > ,or anywhere that I've found, who has forwarded the opiniont4 > > that FUD is lying.  I've never used it that way. > >o8 > So why try so hard to discredit the facts on which the7 > FUD that you claim is being perpitrated is apparentlyh6 > based. If you don't think that FUD is lying then why > bother doing this.  ; Which facts were I trying to discredit?  Be specific.  I've1< been arguing for weeks that you've used a FUD campaign based; on facts that are irrelevant.  I've not generally addressedr: your facts, except where they could be shown to be clearly: non-facts.  I've said this before as well, but you seem to; be forgetting it.  FUD can be facts, it can be lies, it can = be untestable statements.  FUD is neither fact nor lies, it'sc= a separate concept.  The best FUD contains facts taken out of < context.  But, you can also FUD with lies, exaggerations and untestable assertions.   >iD > > >> Now, please define FUD for me, so I can understand what it isD > > >> when you say it?  From what I can tell about your definition,A > > >> it's at odds with the history and present use of the term.o > > >> > > >t= > > >Certainly, FUD is a sweeping convenient label for you toaD > > >use to try to dismiss a series of facts that you are completely > > >unable to refute. > > >  > >vA > > Which series of facts?  You mean, like all the facts you spunoF > > to backup your pure FUD that Java on OpenVMS is Java "yes and no". > >S? > Question for you, they were facts wern't they, you also triedN4 > unsucesfuly to dipute them, whats going on Jordan, >   ? Where did I try to dispute them?  I may have tried to show thatT< they were irrelevant, but I didn't dispute them.  There is a@ difference even an IT Architect who works for Sun should be able to see.l  A > > I could throw out a similar volley of facts that would backupm@ > > the contention that the Java available on OpenVMS _is_ Java,= > > but that would just fall into your trap.  You said it wasn> > > Java "yes and no", a half truth used to produce FUD.  If I; > > had been attacking your "facts", then maybe this absurdM? > > claim that I have been using FUD and falsehood equivalently  > > would be justified.d >r
 > Go on then.m >,? > But it wasn't a half truth was it, the half truth and the onea< > I was origionally objecting to was the statement that Java= > is available on OpenVMS. Ignoring the unavailability of 1.3 4 > this statment is  demonstrably half true for 1.2.x? > for example the Plugin isn't available so people will be ableiC > to run 1.2.X Java applications and applets using the appletviewera9 > but they won't be able to run anything using the plugine. > required by Mozilla because there isn't one. > ; > Question for you did you consider the statement I made toe
 > be FUD ?  > Yes, saying Java on OpenVMS is Java "yes and no" is FUD.  It'sC clearly an attempt to scare people away from using Java on OpenVMS.0 It's clearly FUD.    > : > Oh dear oh dear and you objected to my objecting to this; > perhaps you should be thinking about cutting your losses.i >.> > > No, if you go back and actually look at the record, you'll= > > find that I worked to show how your "facts" were actuallyS$ > > all just part of a FUD campaign. > >e7 > But Jordan if they are all facts then do they qualifyt8 > as FUD. It seems to me that you are simply complaining) > about what is an inevitable conclusion.f= > > >Thats not what FUD really is but that is how you use the < > > >term, it doesn't matter how carefully you construct the- > > >definition its your useage that matters.d > > >rA > > >I agree with your definition entirely, the best FUD contains_D > > >a tiny grain of truth wrapped in supposition etc etc, but thats* > > >not how you use the definition is it. > > >h > > > H > > >> You seem to think that FUD is just "lies".  If I wanted to accuse@ > > >> you of lying, I would have no trouble dredging up several examplesF > > >> of you doing this, and in each case, I called you a liar, not aB > > >> FUDster.  You use both lies and FUD to tear down Compaq andF > > >> OpenVMS.  Sometimes you use lies to produce FUD, sometimes, youG > > >> just lie and sometimes you use carefully chosen facts, taken out E > > >> of context, in isolation or spun appropriately to produce FUD.Y > > >> > > > A > > >No I don't think FUD is lies it is however the accepted viewc > > >in this group particular. > > >r4 > > After all these many many weeks of poking fun at> > > me for "confusing fact and FUD" that you've come around to > > this view. > >a@ > > You accept my definition, do you?  Well, that's interesting,7 > > because in article <39CF7C81.C43D3012@uk.sun.com> :o > >e" > > http://x58.deja.com/getdoc.xp?2 AN=673931236&CONTEXT=973549013.1792475208&hitnum=2 > >n > > You said, and I quote: > > C > >   "So sorry if you call this FUD then you really are in trouble ? > >    you see in my book FUD is untrue, and making a statemente# > >    that is true cannot be FUD."L > >  >vD > > As I said above, this is simply incredible.  This is exactly theC > > point that I've been making for weeks, that you've poked fun at B > > by saying that I have a problem separating FUD and facts.  You > > are all over the place.  > >a >t> > Re read my posting, I agree with your general definition butA > that isn't important, what is important is how you use the termo> > thats is what we are discussing not the textbook definition.  @ Please, be specific how _I_ have been the one who has been usingA the term incorrectly?   You have been making fun of the idea that5? something could be labeled as FUD when it is based on facts forR? weeks now.  Only you have had a problem with these definitions.6  < To prove that I've been using the term incorrectly, it's not= enough to show that I've been disputing your "facts" (I could ; have been fighting some of your lies you were using for FUDm@ purposes), you have to show, as I've clearly demonstrated above,7 that it is I who doesn't have a clue as to what FUD is.w   > @ > > >Perhaps you can explain what leads you to this theory. TheyC > > >port and test Java and then provide it to the Linux Community.i > > >bF > > >Sun/IBM port and test Java and then provide it to the Solaris/AIX > > >communities.t > > > B > > >Compaq port and test Java and provide it to the Tru64/OpenVMS > > >comunities. > > >lD > > >Blackdown don't charge for their JVM, Sun, Compaq and IBM don't charge > > >for their JVM's.p > > >t? > > >Blackdown have to do exactly what Sun, Compaq, IBM, HP etc < > > >have to do to get a JVM out of the door. So how do theyB > > >do it if according to you the playing field is slanted in the > > >wrong direction.g > > >e> > > >Your dismissal of them as a "vendor" is simply convenient> > > >to your argument isn't it but has not other basis in fact > > >its just more spin. > > >t > >e= > > I dunno.  Most people don't call a loose confederation of ? > > Internet developers a vendor.  Are the members of the Linux = > > Kernel mailing list a vendor headed by Linus Torvalds?  Ir= > > don't think most people would agree that they were.  Now,P. > > RedHat or VA Systems, _those_ are vendors. > > < > > I'm sorry I've been careful with my terminology and this8 > > gives you some trouble in understanding what I mean. > >b >i; > No you have been carefull with terminology to try to spinI: > your way out of the argument the best example here being< > your attempt to label Blackdown as not being a "Vendor" in@ > order to show that only Sun and IBM have shipped 1.3 releases. >n! > This is just spin on your part.i > = > Why bother, it isn't the label that matters its the processe> > that Blackdown has to go through to get a working version ofC > Java out on Linux and if that process is slanted in Sun's favour.C >   C It matters a lot.  The reason other vendors might not be supportinga@ Java so eagerly is that they might see it adding credibility andE ultimately to the bottom line of Sun, who is automatically identifiedn& as the King of Java in people's minds.  C The Blackdown group is not concerned with such things, vendors are.   = > > In any case, only IBM and Sun have produced ports of Javag? > > in lockstep.  Blackdown just got 1.3 out in late September.  > >u > ; > Do you think this helps your argument ?? The fact is thatt: > Blackdown have gone through the same process that Compaq@ > have to do to get a production JVM and they did it arround the@ > same time as Compaq's release of the previous major release ofD > Java for OpenVMS. Not a bad acheivement for a "loose confederation > of Internet developers". > B > Nor does it make your response to my posting any  less incorrect= > does it unless we allow your "carefull use of terminology".n > > > > Vendors other than Sun have their own reasons for bringingB > > things out when they will.  Seeing as everyone recognizes that= > > Sun has this big mindshare advantage in the Sun realm, it < > > doesn't exactly behoove the rest of the vendors to knock> > > themselves out just to give Sun more legitimacy with Java. > >o >o: > Ahh so it isn't the standardisation process at all, well; > why didn't you say so, but you didn't did you. More spin.i >e  > It's both the standardization process and competitive reasons.C I'm not changing the subject here, I'm giving you multiple reasons.o   > > C > > What I argued was that if you asked a group of IT professionalshD > > who has the best Java implementation they would almost uniformlyC > > answer "Sun".  You said this was irrelevant, but it's not.  TheRC > > Sun Java brand is a considerable disadvantage to other vendors.a > >P< > No that is not what you argued this is a new argument that: > has just occured to you because of my response to Terrys > posting. Spin.  C My, but you have a short memory.  First, you can't seem to rememberDC how you've been defining FUD and now you can't remember when I made 9 the above argument.  Well, here it is for your reference:-  * In article <39EF351B.1C5D6E8C@uk.sun.com>:  G  > Let me ask you this, ask 1000 IT professionals who produces the bestsE  > supported Java systems and see what the perception is.  That's all.D  > that's important, really, Sun knows that they can win in the JavaB  > market they've created as long as people perceive that the best system+  > for running Java is a Sun supported one.u  >  C  So what, the playing field is not slanted in our direction, Compaq C  could provide just a Java environement which is just as good. They A  don't because they havn't invested in the resources that Sun andAA  other vendors have not because the game is stacked against them.   @  Don't bleat about poor old Compaq the resourcing issue is their>  choice and if they really wanted OpenVMS to be a leading Java   platform they would address it.  .  All this talk about perception is irrelevant.  A Above, I talked about the mindshare advantage the Sun had and youh dismissed it as irrelvant.  > You spin so furiously here you can't keep track of what you or" anyone else has said...  pathetic.  C Your credibility is sinking to new lows, and with you that's sayinga a lot.   > D > > I _also_ argued that Sun not opening the standardization processF > > has ALSO given many of the Java partners problems (including IBM),< > > at one point or another, which I backed with references. > >s >p; > But you were unable to back this with any examples of how?< > this had effected IBM's ability to deliver timely releases> > of the JVM, you are refering to two different things, access; > to technology and contractual negociation, IBM complained19 > about the contractual negociations they didn't complain  > about access to technology.a  > They also appeared to be complaining about the standardization process:  @ http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2404696,00.html   Which contains the interesting:   ?   At the same time, IBM is threatening to back an internationalr@   standard body's effort to establish a public specification forD   Java without Sun's cooperation, if Sun persists in withholding the#   details of the standard for Java.t  A   "The ECMA technical committee has sent out a letter stating itseD   intent to evaluate the possibility of moving forward [to establishA   a standard]," Hebner said. "IBM supports that move. We're stillrD   hopeful, though, that this process will get back to where it was."     >oA > > Now, tell us Andrew.  What's all this dance with Sun and Java C > > standardization really all about?  First ISO, then ECMA??  It'syA > > not just us crazy OpenVMS advocates that seem to be concernedh > > about this:a > >J >,= > But it does not really matter does it because regardless ofl< > ISO or ECMA issues, Java standards that the Java licencees< > with the exception of Microsoft and HP have agreed on have? > continued to be developed and other suppliers have had access > > to the technologies in an open way and this includes Compaq. >o  < So, you won't or can't answer why Sun is constantly starting; and then subsequently abandoning standardization efforts...F  B It certainly appears that they want tight control for some reason,: that they want there to be continued uncertainty about the? direction of Java.  It appears that Sun thinks that controllings6 the Java standards process is a competitive advantage.  @ If this is not the case, please give your alternative reason for? the contstant upheaval in the standardization process for Java.   B > > I'm prepared to argue that Sun has an advantage with Sun basedB > > on the fact that they control the standards.  I also argue theC > > branding issue, but I put it in different terms by referring to @ > > it as a mindshare problem among Sun competitors.  I'll stick; > > with as many arguments as I need to make to refute you.  > >a >l> > Sure you are prepared to argue on the basis of Sun's control< > of the standards it is a pity that you havn't been able to> > come up with anything to back your arguments up though isn't > it.o >nD > > >As a matter of interest though do Compaqs Java porting and testF > > >engineers have a harder job because Sun's name is associated with > > >Java ?i > > >t >,; > Perhaps you should answer this question since it seems toh" > be at the crux of your argument. >t  E It's an irrelevant, loaded question.  I don't know why Compaq has not D tracked Java as closely as IBM and Sun, but I did give some possibleD reasons involving the possibility that Compaq doesn't want to devoteA resources to something that may end up only helping a competitor.V  < > > You see Andrew, I'm not in the business of FUD.  I don't@ > > challenge _everything_ said here, pro or con Compaq/OpenVMS.< > > No, mostly I only get involved in these debates with one; > > Sun employee who is obviously on a mission to discredit2< > > Compaq, OpenVMS and it's adherents on this newsgroup set( > > aside for discussions about OpenVMS. > >c >a: > Ahhh now we get to the truth of it, well done you got it7 > off your chest at last. You are basically saying thatp4 > a statement made by me on this newsgroup no matter5 > if it is all factual (but uncomfortable to OpenVMS) 0 > will be treated as FUD because I work for Sun.  5 I sometimes agree with things you say here.  When youo5 say things meant to discredit Compaq and OpenVMS in ay5 group devoted to discussions of OpenVMS, yes, I guessn7 that's always FUD.  What would you call it?  Charitablee missionary work?   >e7 > Why did you bother with all your carefull definitionsl! > of FUD, what a waste of effort.r  : Because, as I've shown above, you didn't seem to know what< FUD was.  Now that you've come to understand what FUD really7 is, it might dawn on you that this is what you do here.   ; If you continue, now that you seem to understand the use ofi5 the term FUD, we'll know that this is your intention.s   >e	 > Regardsp > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architecte >l   -- -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.comb    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:01:02 GMTe From: baboyd@my-deja.com. Subject: Re: Ethernet failure on MicroVAX 3400( Message-ID: <8u9n1p$ec$1@nnrp1.deja.com>  2 In article <39f6ba12.1367450409@news.newsguy.com>,(   A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) wrote:2 > On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:10:36 GMT, "Chris Chiesa"$ > <cchiesa1@rochester.rr.com> wrote: >D- > >   My customer has a MicroVAX 3400 running  (probably; I can't confirm just  > >now) 1 > >VMS V5.4-2, using TCP/IP by running one of thea earliest releases of
 > >Wollongongo- > >TCP/IP software.  This ran against the CPUd card's built-in "thinwire" > >(coaxial) Ether-d( > >net port until a few months ago, then% that "died" and he had to switch overb > >to usings/ > >the built-in "thickwire" Ethernet port and ae thickwire-to-thinwirew > >transceiver.  Now( > >THAT has died, and he's called ME in. >b > > / > >   I spent about two hours trying to refreshc my memories of this system > >(this guy1 > >was one of my employer's former customers, and, I myself installed Wollongonge/ > >onto it 9 years ago) and to find any visible  problem with the software or > >hardware.- > >Neither panned out and all I could suggestw was, "replace the CPU card" to > >get a- > >whole new pair of built-in Ethernet ports.  >t. > The 3000 (not 3100) and 4000 series machines have a known weakness in' > the front panel  (the shiny metal bit   containing the ethernet, console- > connections etc) that can cause ethernet tor fail sporadically or+ > completely. Costs about 300 dollars for a  replacement from field/ > service. I've seen this fail on three or fourt machines over the last1 > ten years, Some of the ethernet logic is on thea cpu board but I have- > never seen this fail - just the front panel, which does contain a small* > amount of active components. I'd tend to
 supsect this.  >r > >d/ > >   I just heard from him tonight that he didy so -- and it did NOT fix the > >problem.  I'm( > >baffled.  I'm running out of "simple"% hypotheses and am starting to have toe > >think ofo > >more exotic ones. > >l+ > >   1) He just so happened to replace hisn original CPU with another one  > >broken in) > >exactly the same manner.  Odds?  Seemsr	 unlikely.  > >i- > >   2) ALL 3400 CPUs (KA-630? 640?  I don'td remember) "expire" vis-a-vis > >their on-1 > >board Ethernet capabilities, around this point  in their lifetimes.  Seems > >unlikely --. > >but significantly improves the odds of (1), above. > > . > >   3) It's software even though I don't see any other signs of corruptiono > >(disk blockso) > >where software resides) or operationale$ misbehavior (acts like hardware just > >isn't > >working). > >s( > >   4) Anything else YOU can think of! > >l, > >   If it's the software, we're still in a" fix.  He probably doesn't have the > >original Wollon-g1 > >gong installation tapes, as my former employer  kept those for itself insteade > >of hand-i1 > >ing them out to the customers on whose systemsu they were installed (got > >figure).t* > >The old employer no longer does VAX/VMS" systems, so probably also does not/ > >still have the tapes -- although we're goingi to at least INQUIRE.  I have noy > >idea whe-. > >ther Wollongong is still in business, still sells VAX/VMS TCP/IP software, > >or woulda1 > >support such an ancient release -- but I'd beta AGAINST at least SOME of > >those. > >things.  I assume "current" TCP/IP packages probably require newer VMS > >versions ) > >than V5.4-2, and that such "newer" VMSh$ versions are unsupported on hardware > >asF- > >ancient as a MicroVAX 3400-- although theyi probably WILL RUN, bless 'em...  > >:-)1 > >If we consider upgrading the VAX itself, we're  still limited to Q-bus > >machines, be-0 > >cause the machine is used as a turnkey system whose sole purpose is to drive > >a. > >properietary peripheral device whose driver exists only in Q-bus form. > >t- > >    So, what are our options?  I cringe tot	 even ASK.s > > . > >    Please e-mail me even if you also reply  here; my free time isn't what it > >used to be,, > >and I'd do it for YOU if YOU were the one asking.w > >h > >    Thanks in advance,s > >l > >       Chris Chiesa+ > >         (whom some of you may remember)a > >, > >a > >  > >D >r > -- > Alan Greig >d  , This is not necessarily a reply, but another. question.  You said you had to switch from the. BNC connection to the AUI connection.  We have1 ripped all coax out of our building and purchasedi. an adapter to go from AUI to RJ45 to attach to/ our ethernet.  Now, the machine can not get outl- on the network.  It can only ping itself.  Ish. there anywhere to specify which transciever is/ plugged in or should it somehow auto-detect?  Io0 have a T with terminators plugged in to the coax0 port.  Without this, it would not boot properly. Any help would be appreciated.   Thanks,e  
 Bruce Boyd bboyd@edulog.com    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 10:57:01 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>eI Subject: Re: Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation. ) Message-ID: <3A09236C.498981D3@gtech.com>U  
 Sapper wrote: F > Anyone know how to fix this problem.  Check virtual mem. and set it." > I'm compiling a program in BASIC > > > Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation./ > %LIB-F-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memorye > M > Here is my SH MEM. Notice the bottom says The Virtual I/O Cache is DISABLED  > on this node.r  < Virutal I/O cache is disk cache and has *NOTHING* to do with insufficient virtual memory.  ? Solution: increase SYSUAF PGFLQUOTA of the username. Check that ? SYSGEN VIRTUALPAGECNT are >= the new value. Check that you havef big enough page-files.   Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:48:06 -0600! From: "Sapper" <fire@hotmail.com>fE Subject: Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation.n/ Message-ID: <t0h4lt8c9utfa7@corp.supernews.com>"  D Anyone know how to fix this problem.  Check virtual mem. and set it.  I'm compiling a program in BASIC    < Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation.- %LIB-F-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memorya  K Here is my SH MEM. Notice the bottom says The Virtual I/O Cache is DISABLED 
 on this node.e  ?              System Memory Resources on  7-NOV-2000 16:38:35.25v  L Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use    ModifiedL   Main Memory (512.00Mb)           65536       52474       12367         695  L Granularity Hint Regions (pages):  Total        Free      In Use    ReleasedL   Execlet code region                512           0         463          49L   Execlet data region                128           5          91          32L   S0/S1 Executive data region        349           0         349           0L   S2 Executive data region           320           0         320           0L   Resident image code region        1024           0         893         131  L Slot Usage (slots):                Total        Free    Resident     SwappedL   Process Entry Slots                256         205          51           0L   Balance Set Slots                  254         205          49           0  L Dynamic Memory Usage (bytes):      Total        Free      In Use     LargestL   Nonpaged Dynamic Memory        2785280     1363200     1422080     1260160L   Paged Dynamic Memory           2506752     1388656     1118096     1387184  @ Buffer Object Usage (pages):                  In Use        Peak@   32-bit System Space Windows (S0/S1)              0           0@   64-bit System Space Windows (S2)                 0           0  L Memory Reservations (pages):                Reserved      In Use        Type@ Total (0 Mb reserved)                              0           0  L Paging File Usage (blocks):                     Free  Reservable       Total*   DISK$AXPVMSSYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYSL                                                19968       19968       19968*   DISK$AXPVMSSYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYSL                                               999936      818368      999936  E Of the physical pages in use, 3043 pages are permanently allocated too OpenVMS.  / The Virtual I/O Cache is DISABLED on this node.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 18:34:12 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>d Subject: Re: Galaxy doubte0 Message-ID: <3A099DBC.488602DD@bellatlantic.net>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > D > I have a doubt about the Galaxy configuration: a Galaxy configuredG > in the  "Shared-Everything Computing Model ",  acts as a VMS Cluster, F > but is  needed a physical connection between the instances (FDDI) orG > the "clustering" works by the internal bus ? Of course  Ill need twosG > Fibre Channel  adapters (one per instance) to connect the disk array.s > Q > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/721final/6512/6512pro_001.html#configurationsi >  > Regards, Fabio C.g  6 Not up to Andrew's style, but has similar fud content.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 09:15:22 +0100 (MET)o& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>. Subject: Good news (ironical) from Sun service6 Message-ID: <200011080811.JAA02597@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  F we have bought a product from Sun called SparcPrinterEC and we do haveD a service contract with Sun. Since a few weeks we do have a hardwareF problem with this printer. Sun, our contract pertner, says: that's notE our problem call Tektronix. Tektronix says, that's not my deal. We as E can't print and have to wait for service. The newest reaction of Sun:eC they stopped the contract for that printer to the end of this year.vB In 20 Year Digital/Compaq service we did not see this. We did haveH foreign hardware under service contract. Digitals service man did repairC it. I hope that Sun does not stop the service contract for Sun's ife we do have problems.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 06:30:58 -0500/ From: "IanPercival" <IanPercival@email.msn.com> 8 Subject: Good suggestions for XFC SHOW MEM/CACHE display) Message-ID: <uGoXcdXSAHA.249@cpmsnbbsa09>m  @ It'll be interesting to see what the group has to say about yourH suggestions - we don't have very much time left to change things in V7.3C It's quite a rare event that I read the newsgroups - so PLEASE send L suggestions to me at mailto:ian.percival@compaq.com or file a PTR if you are in the Field Test program.L I think some reorganisation of the display is in order - I confess we didn'tH pay too much attention to the user interface - focussing more on gettingJ things to work "under the hood".  Certainly I agree with lining up the hitL rates and I/O count.  As we'll probably be changing the display again in theK next releases (lots more new functionality) we'll bear this in mind then if  it doesn't make V7.3.e   Ian Percival XFC Project Leader    L "Jan Vorbrueggen" <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote inJ message news:y4ofzqu374.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...6 > norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> writes: >kF > > Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 11-OCT-2000 17:27:40.94)E > >  Allocated (Mbytes)     8188.35  Maximum size (Mbytes)    8192.00 E > >  Free (Mbytes)            72.48  Minimum size (Mbytes)       0.23sF > >  In use (Mbytes)        8115.86  Write hit rate                 0%E > >  Read hit rate               82% Write I/O count        144078053pE > >  Read I/O count       278993748  Write hit count                0hE > >  Read hit count       229665096  Writes bypassing cache        12 E > >  Reads bypassing cache     5530  Vols in Full XFC mode          0aE > >  Files cached open          439  Vols in VIOC Compatible mode  56sE > >  Files cached closed       1231  Vols in No Caching mode        3eE > >  Read/Write ratio            65% Vols in Perm. No Caching mode  0w >nH > I think this display is broken from a user-interface, or one might sayK > perceptual, point of view. The stats for read and write are skewed by oneaK > line, the read/write ratio is far away from the I/Os reported on, and thewG > I/O and hit count are the wrong way round to visually build a ration.f >eJ > Suggestions: Put the read/write ratio between minimum size and write hitG > rate, swap the I/O and hit count lines, split the Vols stats into twooL > lines of two columns (modes on the left, no caching on the right), and putF > the files cached stats in one line in front of the vols stats. (Some	 arbitrary ) > decisions here, but just one or two...)  >h > Jand   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 15:04:02 +0000y( From: Alan Fay <alan.fay@btinternet.com>> Subject: I've added a DE500-BA NIC to my 255/300... boot hang?3 Message-ID: <8ubqdt$7jm$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>l  
     Hello,  6     I've added a PCI DE500-BA 100BaseT network card to6     my Alpha 255/300 running V7.2-1.  The  system  now     hangs on boot.  6     It also has a 10BaseT  network  interface  on  the6     motherboard, but I would  like  to  also  use  the6     100BaseT card as well. I have  not  been  able  to6     boot the machine to configure  the  cards  IP  etc6     with UCX. The new card is identified on EWB0:  and     configures as 10BaseT (?).  6     The card is in the lowest PCI 3rd slot the other 26     are the graphics and a SCSI UW card. The  DE500-BA)     card is shown with a >>> show config.t       On a cold boot I get       Shared PIRQ0 in slot 4  6     and then it continues, but hangs when starting the6     network. If I boot P1 "MIN" no  interface  devices5     are available to configure. I have V5.6 Firmware.n  %     Will this card work on my system?.       alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:57:39 +0100 (MET) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>* Subject: OpenVMS 7.1-2 and cluster forming6 Message-ID: <200011080753.IAA02557@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  F since our upgrade of OpenVMS from 7.1-1H1 to 7.1-2 we can't reboot ourI bootserver. In the previous version, we could reboot without any problem.gH Sometimes a reboot of the bootserver is nesseray like dismounted/mountedF failure, installed patches. Also should a after crash reboot function.G IMHO, yesterday I found the case for our problem. A new forming policy.hF After reboot I did see, that the bootserver sends a membership requestF to one of the satellites. Then it lost the path (Closed virtuel port).I The bootserver disconnects the network (transciever and speed LED go off) E and nothing happens any more. In the previous version of OpenVMS, the E bootserver did not send any membership request and all the satellitesrG did send there membership request to the bootserver. IMHO, that was thehF right way, because it eliminates some problems, when the booting nodesK lost the path to this member (the node hangs). Now, every member, includingiL the bootserver, sends a membership request to the node with the highest nameF (alphabetical order). In case of this, the bootserver can't reboot (itH hangs), or the whole cluster reboots. May be, the new policy is also theF reason for the hang of a lot of clustermembers (8 of 30) after a wholeG cluster "clueexit" crash. Is there any patch out, which do reenable theVH old behavior (that I can reboot the bootserver without any effect to theD satellites)? I think the new behavior is a blame for OpenVMS and un-  acceptable in a production area.   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:22:29 +0000s- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>l Subject: Re: OpenVMS on 5300) Message-ID: <3A094585.3DECF648@bbc.co.uk>s   Jack Haskell wrote:    > Hoff Hoffman wrote:h > [ > > In article <3A06EAD4.B012F808@hotmail.com>, Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com> writes:hI > > :I searched the net for information on whether or not the alphaserverd" > > :5300 will run OpenVMS or not. > >aJ > >   There is no such thing as the AlphaServer 5300 series, I will assumeA > >   that this is a reference to the Digital Server 5300 series.o > [ > OK. I guess that the seller got it wrong. He listed it as an Alpha Server. It was selling-) > on ebay for 800.00 with no takers. See:r >   [ My take on what Hoff is trying to say, an alpha server is a server with an Alpha inside it.r\ An AlphaServer is a particular range of alpha based servers  qualified to run VMS and Tru64.O The Digital Server 5300 is a server with an alpha chip designed to run NT only.o   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofh MedAS or the BBC.t   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:06:37 GMT) From: Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com>e Subject: Re: OpenVMS on 5300+ Message-ID: <3A08990D.7872A138@hotmail.com>r   Hoff Hoffman wrote:s  Y > In article <3A06EAD4.B012F808@hotmail.com>, Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com> writes:rG > :I searched the net for information on whether or not the alphaservere  > :5300 will run OpenVMS or not. >nH >   There is no such thing as the AlphaServer 5300 series, I will assume? >   that this is a reference to the Digital Server 5300 series.r  Y OK. I guess that the seller got it wrong. He listed it as an Alpha Server. It was sellingp' on ebay for 800.00 with no takers. See:h  t http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=485250291&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=973604488&indexURL=0&rd=1  P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Nov 2000 16:00:08 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> F Subject: Re: Oracle/VMS performance problems with Multithreaded ServerH Message-ID: <y4ofzqh5l3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / "I.A. Saez" <i.a.saez.scheihing@tue.nl> writes:i  + > Thus process creation on VMS is slower:-)I  N No. In the environment in question, there is no need to have DCL active in any processes as they are created.   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 10:41:46 GMTt From: senkery@my-deja.come) Subject: PDC and BDC in two different LANi) Message-ID: <8ubala$9jl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>0  " Does anyone know how can I do it ?H I am running 2 PDC on Pathworks 5.0F in two different LAN. And I want toH change 1 PDC to BDC. How can I do run PDC and BDC in the same domain butD in two different LAN ? How can I have to configure BDC ? (I think, I should use LMHOSTS file !?)f   						Lubos >                                                 senkery@irb.sk    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:41:39 -00001 From: "NewsReader" <NewsReader@NotOnYourLife.Com>e- Subject: Re: PDC and BDC in two different LANn3 Message-ID: <F8hO5.19$285.8910@news.enterprise.net>   L Need to use host/lmhosts & your TCP/IP router box will probably have to have; an IP Helper configured to forward broadcasts from the BDC.n  J <senkery@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8ubala$9jl$1@nnrp1.deja.com...$ > Does anyone know how can I do it ?J > I am running 2 PDC on Pathworks 5.0F in two different LAN. And I want toJ > change 1 PDC to BDC. How can I do run PDC and BDC in the same domain butF > in two different LAN ? How can I have to configure BDC ? (I think, I > should use LMHOSTS file !?)  >k > Lubosb@ >                                                 senkery@irb.sk >n >r( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 07:38:46 -0500.9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)r) Subject: Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMS-+ Message-ID: <abPWbuJgGe5y@eisner.decus.org>y  [ In article <t0hialrf5guh38@corp.supernews.com>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> writes:sD > "Neil Cherry" <njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> wrote in message: > news:slrn90hff2.b25.njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com...= >> On Tue, 7 Nov 2000 08:08:52 -0600, John E. Malmberg wrote:  >>A >> >http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3064/SDIR.HTMLa >>< >> That is so cool, can I post that as part of my LHA pages? > @ > Decuserve is for information sharing, so I do not see why not.  F In particular, those posting information on DECUServe are specificallyF warned that by doing so they are consenting to its public use.  If you@ need more convincing, John Covert was one of the founders of theC DECUServe system (from my perspective) and certainly was well awareh. of that aspect of DECUServe when he posted it.  7 >> BTW: what language is that being used in (CM11.BLI):c >>> >> http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3064.12.HTML > J > It is BLISS, a programming language available for OpenVMS and is on it's > freeware CD-ROM.  E Neil, Bliss is also a language widely used in construction of the VMSe operating system itself.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 18:02:38 +0000,0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laughere* Message-ID: <3A0843BE.2A7F2020@uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:18:20 +0000, andrew harrisonU# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >  > >>P > >> For power users like yourself he'd prewarn you of the downtime schedule andZ > >> ask you at some convenient time to log out of the node you are using and into another	 > >> one.u > >mE > >Of course this is how you should do it, but sadly Kerrys marketingaB > >homilly talked about the fact that people expect systems to runA > >with very low amounts of "scheduled" downtime. You are talkinguD > >about using a process that Kerry somehow thinks OpenVMS magically@ > >does not need to invoke, namely scheduling outages. Of courseB > >the let out for Kerry is that with 2 nodes or more in a cluster@ > >you only need to schedule downtime for the users or processesD > >attached to one of the nodes but given Curtis's example of havingB > >to kick 1500 users off a node this won't cut much ice with many > >IT professionals. > >c > F > Andrew, you're distorting the message... on purpose I'd wager (since0 > you don't have nearly the same story to tell). > C > The fact is that programming/development systems are a completelytH > different model, and they are *not* the business critical systems thatG > require 24x7(x365) uptime.  No business I've ever visited thinks thiscG > way.  In fact, some of them are abandoning their internal development < > groups... *that's* how much the businesses care about this > environment. > B The users caught up in Curtis's Cull may well have been developersE but I wasn't talking about systems that are being used by programmers E or developers though I would not agree that developers should expect  E lower availability, lost development time is a cost just in the same  5 way that a call center going off-line is also a cost.   G > And show me the example where 1500 users are logged-on 24x7.  Kerry's C > example is valid because those 1500 users do log-off and go home.  >   D I have just been part of a project to roll out a Seibel application H worldwide, users in Tokyo, Sydney, Singapore, Frankfurt, London and New ? York. The total user population is around 3000, now you tell me C where the window is that I can use to log users out. You could log LG them out at the weekend but reporting and roll-up is run at the weekend A so you can kill the users off but you will also be unpopular for   other reasons. 1  H This forces the customer to do some remedial work, particularly where it is S urgent during the week.1   H Now in this case these are actual connected users but the same customer I also has systems with no connected users but lots of connected processes  G which also run 24 hours a day. Some of the processes are extremely long0D running making the cost of killing the processes higher further into the process run.  B Same for their treasury applications same for the upcoming general" ledger implimentation etc etc etc.  B These are not eCommerce apps which are even worse because they do = have to be available 24x7 with connected users 24 hours a day  7 days a week.      D > Andrew, I can honestly tell you that I've administered VMSclustersD > where *nobody* saw any application availability problems in over 2H > years.  And these were systems where "telnet" was the main entry pointE > (i.e., stateful connections, unlike remote database/transaction andB > http connections). > @ > I even upgraded from OpenVMS 5.3 to OpenVMS 5.5-2 without userG > interruption on those clusters.  I've applied patches (few that thereeF > were, in comparison to other systems I've seen), added memory, cpus,B > disk drives, etc.  All without users being inconvenienced by the, > outages.  THAT is what VMSclusters can do. > D > Will it do this well for *every* environment?  Of course not.  AndE > nobody in here is advocating that it will - nobody, that is, except/D > for you, who keeps pushing that idea out here and then throwing upE > individual cases where it hasn't worked to prove it wrong.  This is-H > typical "Andrew-style FUD," and I've seen you use it for years.  It is: > getting very old by now,  can't you be more imaginative? > 3 > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq./ > (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)o   -- a Andrew HarrisonE Enterprise IT Architectc   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 19:36:07 GMTh+ From: John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net>s' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher > Message-ID: <MPG.147223a6111d152e989692@news.bellatlantic.net>  D In article <3A0843BE.2A7F2020@uk.sun.com>, andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com  says...  > jlsue wrote: > > 7 > > On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:18:20 +0000, andrew harrisond% > > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:d > >  > > >>R > > >> For power users like yourself he'd prewarn you of the downtime schedule and\ > > >> ask you at some convenient time to log out of the node you are using and into another > > >> one.- > > > G > > >Of course this is how you should do it, but sadly Kerrys marketingeD > > >homilly talked about the fact that people expect systems to runC > > >with very low amounts of "scheduled" downtime. You are talkinggF > > >about using a process that Kerry somehow thinks OpenVMS magicallyB > > >does not need to invoke, namely scheduling outages. Of courseD > > >the let out for Kerry is that with 2 nodes or more in a clusterB > > >you only need to schedule downtime for the users or processesF > > >attached to one of the nodes but given Curtis's example of havingD > > >to kick 1500 users off a node this won't cut much ice with many > > >IT professionals. > > >n > > H > > Andrew, you're distorting the message... on purpose I'd wager (since2 > > you don't have nearly the same story to tell). > > E > > The fact is that programming/development systems are a completely J > > different model, and they are *not* the business critical systems thatI > > require 24x7(x365) uptime.  No business I've ever visited thinks thisrI > > way.  In fact, some of them are abandoning their internal developmentm> > > groups... *that's* how much the businesses care about this > > environment. > > D > The users caught up in Curtis's Cull may well have been developersG > but I wasn't talking about systems that are being used by programmers G > or developers though I would not agree that developers should expect  G > lower availability, lost development time is a cost just in the same  7 > way that a call center going off-line is also a cost.  > I > > And show me the example where 1500 users are logged-on 24x7.  Kerry'snE > > example is valid because those 1500 users do log-off and go home.i > >  > F > I have just been part of a project to roll out a Seibel application J > worldwide, users in Tokyo, Sydney, Singapore, Frankfurt, London and New A > York. The total user population is around 3000, now you tell me E > where the window is that I can use to log users out. You could log iI > them out at the weekend but reporting and roll-up is run at the weekendeC > so you can kill the users off but you will also be unpopular for w > other reasons. w > J > This forces the customer to do some remedial work, particularly where it > is v > urgent during the week.e >  uJ > Now in this case these are actual connected users but the same customer K > also has systems with no connected users but lots of connected processes  I > which also run 24 hours a day. Some of the processes are extremely long F > running making the cost of killing the processes higher further into > the process run. > D > Same for their treasury applications same for the upcoming general$ > ledger implimentation etc etc etc. > D > These are not eCommerce apps which are even worse because they do ? > have to be available 24x7 with connected users 24 hours a daye > 7 days a week.  B Bull shit.  I explained exactly how to handle this situation in anC earlier post, including the irrelevancy of their being users on the A system for 24*7.  But did you acknowledge my argument in any way? F Even to dispute it?  No.  All you did was dis me as a Jordan HendersonC clone.  I have never met Jordan and have no idea if he is in fact a B long-lost identical twin, but I do know he is capable of writing aF coherent sentence and following a logical train of thought, two skills you apparently lack.  @ If any one is interested in how to solve this apparent technicalB problem, they can look up my earlier post or start a new thread on@ the subject (contributions from Andrew *NOT* welcome unless they& contain *technical* content, not FUD.)  F > > Andrew, I can honestly tell you that I've administered VMSclustersF > > where *nobody* saw any application availability problems in over 2J > > years.  And these were systems where "telnet" was the main entry pointG > > (i.e., stateful connections, unlike remote database/transaction and7 > > http connections). > > B > > I even upgraded from OpenVMS 5.3 to OpenVMS 5.5-2 without userI > > interruption on those clusters.  I've applied patches (few that therevH > > were, in comparison to other systems I've seen), added memory, cpus,D > > disk drives, etc.  All without users being inconvenienced by the. > > outages.  THAT is what VMSclusters can do. > > F > > Will it do this well for *every* environment?  Of course not.  AndG > > nobody in here is advocating that it will - nobody, that is, exceptbF > > for you, who keeps pushing that idea out here and then throwing upG > > individual cases where it hasn't worked to prove it wrong.  This ispJ > > typical "Andrew-style FUD," and I've seen you use it for years.  It is< > > getting very old by now,  can't you be more imaginative? > > 5 > > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqt1 > > (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)u   -- l John Santos    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 14:56:02 -0500o9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher + Message-ID: <BiaURJQubQk3@eisner.decus.org>s  ] In article <3A0843BE.2A7F2020@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:  > jlsue wrote: >> e6 >> On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:18:20 +0000, andrew harrison$ >> <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  D >> The fact is that programming/development systems are a completelyI >> different model, and they are *not* the business critical systems thateH >> require 24x7(x365) uptime.  No business I've ever visited thinks thisH >> way.  In fact, some of them are abandoning their internal development= >> groups... *that's* how much the businesses care about thist >> environment.c >> lD > The users caught up in Curtis's Cull may well have been developersG > but I wasn't talking about systems that are being used by programmerseG > or developers though I would not agree that developers should expect tG > lower availability, lost development time is a cost just in the same s7 > way that a call center going off-line is also a cost.h  G Disrupting developers is also less of a problem because they are betterhH able to fend for themselves in reconnecting or switching to an alternateH machine.  Thus the amount of time the developer spends adjusting is less4 and the number of other people they involve is less.  H >> And show me the example where 1500 users are logged-on 24x7.  Kerry'sD >> example is valid because those 1500 users do log-off and go home. >>   > F > I have just been part of a project to roll out a Seibel application J > worldwide, users in Tokyo, Sydney, Singapore, Frankfurt, London and New A > York. The total user population is around 3000, now you tell medE > where the window is that I can use to log users out. You could log iI > them out at the weekend but reporting and roll-up is run at the weekendeC > so you can kill the users off but you will also be unpopular for e > other reasons. :  D I would say you still don't get it.  Log out each user at the end ofD their shift, either with their acquiesence or otherwise.  On VMS youC have been able to force the user off according to an individualizedlB time-of-day since 1984.  I have to believe such is possible by now7 on Unix systems, even if it requires an add-on product.O  E So as the Sun circles the earth :-), the day shift workers log off ofrB the server needing work and the night shift workers log on and (asC it happens) get connected to one of the other servers.  By the timeeB that 4pm has happened everywhere, everybody is off the machine you! want and onto the other machines.o  J > Now in this case these are actual connected users but the same customer K > also has systems with no connected users but lots of connected processes -I > which also run 24 hours a day. Some of the processes are extremely longnF > running making the cost of killing the processes higher further into > the process run.  E Yes, for a long running batch job, you must substitute "length of thecD longest run" for the "8 hours" (or whatever) we used for humans. ButF of course we don't really mean "batch job", we mean "batch job writtenC by an incompetent programmer", since a sensible batch job will take B advantage of the checkpoint capability of the Queue Manager and be? easily interrupted at some granularity, starting up at the laste checkpoint before it exited.  D > These are not eCommerce apps which are even worse because they do ? > have to be available 24x7 with connected users 24 hours a dayr > 7 days a week.  D Connected users 24x7, you bet.  Just not the _same_ connected users.E New users after 2pm go to node X, so that when existing users on node E Y have all disconnected, node Y can be brought down.  The applicationn is still running.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:01:09 +0100f= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> 1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformp) Message-ID: <3A092464.36F907EE@gtech.com>-   andrew harrison wrote:> > I don't think that is the point, the real question is should= > Kerry be taking some sort of holier than thou attitude withf= > other vendors when Compaq and Digital before them have such 6 > a poor track record or should he refrain from making > pronouncements.  > E > Compaq/Digital may have "ponied up to the bar" over the RA-XX diskse: > they didn't over the VAX9000 the MIPS fiasco, the Armada2 > laptops the broken NT on Alpha promises etc etc.  @ MIPS and NT/Alpha are business marketing decisions not technical	 problems.e  * VAX 9000 and RA-disks are 10-15 years ago.  @ So basicly you are comparing SUN's UE10000 problems with Compaqs Armada laptop problems !!!!h   Well ..............?   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 07:43:28 -0500r9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform + Message-ID: <MExZHPu2N0P1@eisner.decus.org>l  i In article <3A092464.36F907EE@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:b  , > VAX 9000 and RA-disks are 10-15 years ago. > B > So basicly you are comparing SUN's UE10000 problems with Compaqs > Armada laptop problems !!!!2  8 The Armada is much less effective for heating your home.6 But the VAX 9000 was pretty good, even if availability is lower than the UE10000.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 07:44:25 GMTV1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>o Subject: Re: Time Zone6 Message-ID: <tv7O5.17$aQ6.5085@nostril.pacific.net.au>  5 Dave Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:f > Paul Repacholi wrote:  >> f$ >> richard_maher@my-deja.com writes: >> n   ....  E >> ( where 95% of WAs pop live ) and the nominal time Long is a hint.t >> u+ >> > PS. See you on Trigg Beach in January.e >> )8 >> Maybe we can invite Andrew Harrison  to North Cott ;)  1 > I believe sharks are fussy about what they eat.   ? 	Nah, he would kill a shark with his secret FUD weapon  or withe' 	a mighty charge of static  !!  :-) :-)L   							Csaba     >> -- ? >> Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., : >> +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.C >>                                              West Australia 6076a1 >> Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.h     > -- d
 > Regards, > Dave.>K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------.K > David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comrK > DBS software at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmlK > "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennono      I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------eE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehogaE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.oI    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:c   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 18:23:18 +0100e* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code* Message-ID: <3a098c06$1@news.kapsch.co.at>   In article <42EB9E790731ACD8.62BB26F08EC0BBBC.4E8FE70B498A7E4B@lp.airnews.net>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:t >"Zane H. Healy" wrote:l >>  O >> I've had a VAXstation 4000-90 without any RAM for a couple years now, and as O >> of yesterday I've got a VAXstation 4000-60 with enough 16MB SIMMs that I cang >> test out the -90. >> cM >> I pulled 4 16MB SIMMs and installed them as per the Service Manual for the O >> -90.  Upon turning the -90 on it gives me a error code of "F2h".  Looking at M >> the list of error codes in the service manual I don't see this one listed.s" >> Does anyone know what it means? >>  N >> I'm assuming the -90 is dead, and I suspected that when I got it, but would >> like to verify. >>  L >> Is the PowerSupply or anything else from the -90 usable as spares for the >> -60?I >uH >VS4000-60 memory is not necessarily compatible with a -90.  (AFAIK, -90+ >memory will always work in a -60, though.)a  D Can't comment on that exactly, but IIRC the -30 and -60 did have the, memory in pairs and the -90 in quadruples...   -- '< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888o< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 18:28:10 +0000r+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>n* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code' Message-ID: <3A099B3A.504560DD@iee.org>    "Zane H. Healy" wrote:L > I pulled 4 16MB SIMMs and installed them as per the Service Manual for theN > -90.  Upon turning the -90 on it gives me a error code of "F2h".  Looking atL > the list of error codes in the service manual I don't see this one listed.! > Does anyone know what it means?t  < It's not entirely unknown for people with the service manual7 in front of them to spend half an hour thinking they'vei; just destroyed a VS4000-90 after tinkering with the memory.e  / Eventually they twigged that the memory goes ini3 the slots in a "funnny" order and that you'd betters2 pay close attention to reading the labels by every" single slot 'cos it's not regular.  < Of course, you are probably much more careful than I was ...  ? Most widgets can be shared bewteen the VS4000-60 and VS4000-90.    Antoniob   -- w   ---------------a- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgs   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Nov 2000 12:13:19 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>o; Subject: Re: VIOC max transfer blocks before cache bypassed H Message-ID: <y4ofzqu374.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> writes:  D > Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 11-OCT-2000 17:27:40.94)C >  Allocated (Mbytes)     8188.35  Maximum size (Mbytes)    8192.00.C >  Free (Mbytes)            72.48  Minimum size (Mbytes)       0.23 D >  In use (Mbytes)        8115.86  Write hit rate                 0%C >  Read hit rate               82% Write I/O count        144078053wC >  Read I/O count       278993748  Write hit count                0 C >  Read hit count       229665096  Writes bypassing cache        12yC >  Reads bypassing cache     5530  Vols in Full XFC mode          0vC >  Files cached open          439  Vols in VIOC Compatible mode  56rC >  Files cached closed       1231  Vols in No Caching mode        3nC >  Read/Write ratio            65% Vols in Perm. No Caching mode  0,  F I think this display is broken from a user-interface, or one might sayJ perceptual, point of view. The stats for read and write are skewed by one J line, the read/write ratio is far away from the I/Os reported on, and the E I/O and hit count are the wrong way round to visually build a ration.2  I Suggestions: Put the read/write ratio between minimum size and write hit oE rate, swap the I/O and hit count lines, split the Vols stats into twooJ lines of two columns (modes on the left, no caching on the right), and putN the files cached stats in one line in front of the vols stats. (Some arbitrary' decisions here, but just one or two...)s   	Jan y   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 15:49:50 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog); Subject: Re: VIOC max transfer blocks before cache bypassedt, Message-ID: <8ubsmu$70v@gap.cco.caltech.edu>   In article <y4ofzqu374.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:5 >norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> writes:  >aE >> Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 11-OCT-2000 17:27:40.94)tD >>  Allocated (Mbytes)     8188.35  Maximum size (Mbytes)    8192.00D >>  Free (Mbytes)            72.48  Minimum size (Mbytes)       0.23E >>  In use (Mbytes)        8115.86  Write hit rate                 0%sD >>  Read hit rate               82% Write I/O count        144078053D >>  Read I/O count       278993748  Write hit count                0D >>  Read hit count       229665096  Writes bypassing cache        12D >>  Reads bypassing cache     5530  Vols in Full XFC mode          0D >>  Files cached open          439  Vols in VIOC Compatible mode  56D >>  Files cached closed       1231  Vols in No Caching mode        3D >>  Read/Write ratio            65% Vols in Perm. No Caching mode  0 >tG >I think this display is broken from a user-interface, or one might sayr >perceptual, point of view.a  F I agree.  The above lines rearranged are much easier to read, example:  C  Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 11-OCT-2000 17:27:40.94)sD   Allocated (Mbytes)     8188.35    Free (Mbytes)              72.48D   Maximum size (Mbytes)  8192.00    Minimum size (Mbytes)       0.23D   In use (Mbytes)        8115.86    Read/Write ratio             65%D   Read hit rate              82%    Write hit rate                0%D   Read I/O count       278993748    Write I/O count        144078053D   Read hit count       229665096    Write hit count                0D   Reads bypassing cache     5530    Writes bypassing cache        12D   Files cached open          439    Files cached closed         1231D   Vols in Full XFC mode        0    Vols in VIOC Compatible mode  56D   Vols in No Caching mode      3    Vols in Perm. No Caching mode  0   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 08:25:59 GMTd3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)f/ Subject: Re: VMS MAIL, SMTP transports, headersi0 Message-ID: <8ub2mn$t3u$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   In article <009F2C7A.44497DDB@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:   K >I think the problem would occur even if the place of the Exchange box wereeI >taken by, say, a Unix box, and even if we were using the mail transports.? >from Multinet or UCX.  (We're running Multinet, incidentally.)i  % I am certainly not sure about that...a   >Here's the problem: o >h >MAIL> SEND/NOED/CC + >To: localuser1,exchangeuser1,exchangeuser2y- >CC: exchangeuser3, exchangeuser4, localuser2i >eI >The local users will get a copy of the message that shows the To and the  >CC as I typed them. >s9 >The Exchange users get a copy of the message that shows   >e< >To: exchangeuser1,exchangeuser2,exchangeuser3,exchangeuser4 >s; >and no CC and no local users, although there's also a nices >e
 >X-VMS-To: >X-VMS-CC:   >bI >that show what I actually typed.  Naturally, this problem showed up when F >somebody spent an important message to a mixed group of users, peopleF >on Exchange replied-to-all and not everybody who should have seen the
 >reply did.  l  D >As far as I can tell, MAIL is bundling up everything that goes by aL >particular transport - whether directly or through forwarding - and sendingE >it off in one package.  The IN% transport (that's the transport thatoH >invokes PMDF) only gets told about that the stuff that it's supposed toI >carry.  MAIL doesn't seem to be making a distinction between To: and CC:p) >when it comes to invoking the transport.n  K Definitely not true. We use Multinet as well and I sent a test message fromeI VMS-Mail to a VMS-account via the Multinet SMTP transport with a CC to anhL account on a Unix box. Both messages arrived. On the Unix box the "From" andN "CC"-lines were properly displayed. Under VMS however the actual VMS-CC-headerJ was empty. But this message viewed on a Mac under Netscape via IMAP showed< the "From"- and "CC"-line properly. You should try the same:H  - send a message to a user on VMS with a CC to a user on Exchange using.    the transport "SMTP%" and see what happens.M  - set a forward to an SMTP%-address on the VMS account and send this accountr>    the same message as before (with a CC to an exchange user)./  - the same with a forward to an "IN%" address.-  E >As an extremely bogus workaround, I tried forwarding my own email tonA >IN%"_winston@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu" - the "_" inhibits further eJ >forwarding - and sending to myself and exchangeuser1.  This worked to theJ >extent that I showed up in the headers on the Exchange server, but didn'tK >work when I tried to distinguish between To: and Cc:.  I would really haterK >to have to set forwarding for every user on the system, and waste the time/> >and processing of a trip through PMDF on every mail delivery.  N Forwarding is another story. You may forward either via VMS mail, via Multinet or via PMDF...  I >I'm willing to accept the argument that MAIL doesn't know anything about F >the internet and it's up to the mail transport to handle this stuff. K >Indeed, the answer over at Innosoft is to just give up on VMS MAIL and usemL >PMDF MAIL, which would be something of a retraining effort for those users J >who haven't already jumped over to Outlook.  However, it seems to me thatL >VMS mail does know the difference between To: and CC:, and ought to be able >to preserve that distinction.  + My example above proves that you are right.   J >Is there any other workaround?  Is the loss of the To:/CC: distinction a E >reportable bug that might get fixed?  Does this work any differentlya% >between the new and old MAIL images?e  E I consider this a bug. Your problem is to track down which product isv9 responsible for the bug: VMS, PMDF, Multinet or Exchange.r   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannp  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 10:51:58 -0600.- From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com>o0 Subject: RE: VMS VMAIL, SMTP transports, headers/ Message-ID: <001108105158.202000b9@goatley.com>a  K >I think the problem would occur even if the place of the Exchange box were I >taken by, say, a Unix box, and even if we were using the mail transportse? >from Multinet or UCX.  (We're running Multinet, incidentally.)  >t >Here's the problem: r >s >MAIL> SEND/NOED/CCv+ >To: localuser1,exchangeuser1,exchangeuser2o- >CC: exchangeuser3, exchangeuser4, localuser2o >hI >The local users will get a copy of the message that shows the To and the  >CC as I typed them. >a9 >The Exchange users get a copy of the message that shows e >e< >To: exchangeuser1,exchangeuser2,exchangeuser3,exchangeuser4 >s; >and no CC and no local users, although there's also a nice  >c
 >X-VMS-To: >X-VMS-CC: . >mI >that show what I actually typed.  Naturally, this problem showed up whengF >somebody spent an important message to a mixed group of users, peopleF >on Exchange replied-to-all and not everybody who should have seen the
 >reply did.  " >rC The problem is caused by VMS Mail only invoking PMDF (or MultiNet'saE SMTP, or TCPware's SMTP, or MX, or....) for the addresses prefixed bynF IN% (or defaulted with a "@" in the address, depending on how you haveC your MAIL logicals set up for a default transport).  While PMDF canyF get the original VMS To: and CC: lines for the X-VMS-To: and X-VMS-CC:D lines, it doesn't do anything with those addresses because it hasn't/ been asked to do anything with those addresses.a   I just did a test with PMDF:     MAIL> send/cce
   To:	goateste#   CC:   in%"goathunter@goatley.com"f  ( The mail that came in had these headers:  / From: "Hunter Goatley" <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM> 
 Subject: test. CC: goathunter@goatley.com3 Message-ID: <01JWAM9QFKR68WW0XX@CAESAR.GOATLEY.COM>  X-VMS-To: GOATEST:% X-VMS-Cc: IN%"goathunter@goatley.com"?  D There was no To: line, which surprises me a little, but technically,C it's because PMDF wasn't told by VMS Mail to process a To: address.wD PMDF was only told about the CC address by VMS Mail, and that's what it reports.   F Doing the same test with MultiNet's SMTP yielded these RFC822 headers:  / From: "Hunter Goatley" <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>  To:   GOATEST@process.como# CC:   goathunter@caesar.goatley.comc  @ MultiNet's SMTP reads the VMS Mail To: and CC: lines and createsE Internet-style addresses for all local users, though it only deliversr$ to the addresses specified by SMTP%.  . I never could reproduce what you were showing:   MAIL> send/noedi/ccn2 To:     goatest,in%"goathunter@caesar.goatley.com"2 CC:     goathunter,in%"goatest@caesar.goatley.com" Subj:   test   Resulted in this with PMDF:p  ! To: goathunter@CAESAR.GOATLEY.COM. Cc: goatest@CAESAR.GOATLEY.COM4 X-VMS-To: GOATEST,IN%"goathunter@caesar.goatley.com"4 X-VMS-Cc: GOATHUNTER,IN%"goatest@caesar.goatley.com"   And this with MultiNet:0  8 To:   GOATEST@process.com, goathunter@caesar.goatley.com8 CC:   GOATHUNTER@process.com, goatest@caesar.goatley.com  ? In any case, it's true that PMDF does not include all the local A recipients.  I don't know if there's a way to make it behave likea@ MultiNet's SMTP, but you can do ensure that by setting a defaultF transport of IN% for users, so that all the addresses specified on theA VMS Mail To: and CC: lines get passed through PMDF, bypassing anyr local VMS Mail delivery.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/B; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/o   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 18:17:34 GMTS' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)w0 Subject: RE: VMS VMAIL, SMTP transports, headers0 Message-ID: <8uc5bu$3g7$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  _ In article <001108105158.202000b9@goatley.com>, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> writes:e > @ >In any case, it's true that PMDF does not include all the localB >recipients.  I don't know if there's a way to make it behave likeA >MultiNet's SMTP, but you can do ensure that by setting a defaultaG >transport of IN% for users, so that all the addresses specified on theuB >VMS Mail To: and CC: lines get passed through PMDF, bypassing any >local VMS Mail delivery.  >   9 How do you set a default transport of IN% for all users ?   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 12:56:20 GMT-) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)-" Subject: Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN' Message-ID: <8ubihk$1vu$1@joe.rice.edu>i  3 Craig D. Lansing (root) (lansing@beldar.com) wrote:gM : Howard, is there a reason for wanting to "get -rid- of terminal servers".  uL : The application is 24x7x365, real-time.  After about an hour of downtime, F : the costs are in the 10's or thousands of dollars per hour for lost M : production.  My fear is just adding an additional layer of failure points, hK : i.e. the terminal server and serial connections to the HP-9000 via a DTC.-  I I'm in the support group of a pipeline control center which uses OpenVMS tI on ALPHAServer 8400s which collect their real-time data via DEC terminal 0E servers over a WAN carrying LAT traffic as well as DECNet and TCP/IP.   C In the two years I've been there, there have only been 1-2 terminaltE server "failures".  The alleged failures may have actually been other>A problems which field personnel didn't address until there were nol. other gear that could be causing the problems.  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 15:12:32 +0000g2 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk>. Subject: Where's C's PRV$M_READALL & _GRPPRV ?. Message-ID: <3A096D60.43345936@CCAgroup.co.uk>  D Trying to build/install John Malmberg's FRONTPORT on our Alpha (DECC V6.2-008, VMS 7.1).I  9 It fails, complaining about PRV$M_READALL & PRV$M_GRPPRV.n$ Other PRV$M_whatever symbols are OK.  : $ lib/tex/extr=prvdef sys$share:sys$starlet_c/out=prvdef.h  G gives me a module which is indeed missing the masks for the bits in thea second longword.  4 The library was created Jun-98, last updated Jun-99.) The PRVDEF module was inserted 25-Nov-96.l  2 I've installed patches ALPACRT08_071 & CCAE02_062.   What have I missed ?   Thanks,6 Chrisa   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 18:39:14 +0000 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>12 Subject: Re: Where's C's PRV$M_READALL & _GRPPRV ?' Message-ID: <3A099DD2.49765A98@iee.org>    Chris Sharman wrote: > F > Trying to build/install John Malmberg's FRONTPORT on our Alpha (DECC > V6.2-008, VMS 7.1).- > ; > It fails, complaining about PRV$M_READALL & PRV$M_GRPPRV.a& > Other PRV$M_whatever symbols are OK.  3 I think privs beyond SHARE are not defined as masks3  because they live beyond bit 31.  / There are lowercase equivalents (presuambly fort4 use in new code that does not expect to use straight+ masks) that define them so that you can useo- them in structures in a slightly more wieldy o way.     Antoniom       -- '   ---------------e- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:02:24 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>0, Subject: Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page) Message-ID: <3A0924AF.346991F8@gtech.com>h   Warren Sander wrote:F > Just so you know I'm planning to retire the OpenVMS y2k pages at theG > end of the year. They haven't been a bother so I haven't removed them ( > but they are getting old and crufty...  7 In the VMS world it is not unsually to run old versions , of software and sometimes questions come up.  / So maybe you should consider keeping the pages.-   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:25:34 +0000j  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com, Subject: Re: Where's the Y2K compliance pageH Message-ID: <OF4B82A25A.E6943CA5-ON80256991.00492EDF@qedi.quintiles.com>  K I can understand Warren's reluctance to keep the pages around ad-infinitum,wK but I do agree with Arne.  I know of organisations that are running 7.1-1H2)I on Alpha, 6.2 on VAX and yet another that still runs 5.5-2.  Unless spaceFK is at a premium I'd keep the pages available Warren.  (Come to think of it,MK if space is at a premium then you could add another disk in on the fly - it + is VMS running the web site, isn't it? :-))5  I Maybe one way would be to "move" the page to one with /archive/ somewhereR< in the URL and put a redirection page in at the present URL.   Steve.  ? Arne Vajhoej (arne dot vajhoej at gtech dot com) wrote/quoted :F >>>Warren Sander wrote: F > Just so you know I'm planning to retire the OpenVMS y2k pages at theG > end of the year. They haven't been a bother so I haven't removed themV( > but they are getting old and crufty...  7 In the VMS world it is not unsually to run old versionst, of software and sometimes questions come up.  / So maybe you should consider keeping the pages.w   Arne<<<i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:30:06 +0000r- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>u, Subject: Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page) Message-ID: <3A09555E.16A9FF5F@bbc.co.uk>I  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:   > American censorship, sigh. >m  G  Hey, I thought it was us in the UK that suffered excessive censorship!s   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofO MedAS or the BBC.k   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 09:49:52 -0800n! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.come, Subject: Re: Where's the Y2K compliance pageD Message-ID: <OFA19E925A.55165051-ON88256991.0061CAC8@foundation.com>  E Hell, you aught to see this country. The cinema is quite relaxed, butc0 television censorship is totally out of control.   Shaneo          A Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> on 11/08/2000 05:30:06 AMs  ) Please respond to tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk    To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:1  - Subject:  Re: Where's the Y2K compliance paged        " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:   > American censorship, sigh. >t  G  Hey, I thought it was us in the UK that suffered excessive censorship!    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 15:42:14 -0300i) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brn. Subject: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?L Message-ID: <OF8D98C718.F45159E2-ON03256991.0066820D@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H I checked  at     http:// www.netcraft.com  and sounds like Northern Li= ghte isD using a Solaris server  as http server ?  It=B4s not OpenVMS powered
 anymore???  > http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph/?host=3Dwww.northernlight.com   Regards,   FC.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:52:59 -0500 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>2 Subject: Re: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?; Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001108125148.022d3010@24.8.96.48>   E At 03:42 PM 11/8/00 -0300, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:   K >I checked  at     http:// www.netcraft.com  and sounds like Northern Light  >isXE >using a Solaris server  as http server ?  It=B4s not OpenVMS poweredi >anymore???3  L Northern Light's multi-tier, like pretty much all the search engines. The=20L database lives on VMS systems, while the webservers are living on Solaris=20 boxes.   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------.2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenr;                                       teddy bears get drunkO   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 10:55:49 -0700g% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>u2 Subject: Re: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?D Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001108105457.00ae9738@pop.clsp.uswest.net>  D So far as I know, Northern Light uses VMS as its back-end heavy-dutyE system.  It uses lightweight stuff for things like the front-end httph servers.  A At 11:42 AM 11/8/2000, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:a  K >I checked  at     http:// www.netcraft.com  and sounds like Northern Lighth >issE >using a Solaris server  as http server ?  It=B4s not OpenVMS powered  >anymore???o >o? >http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph/?host=3Dwww.northernlight.come >a	 >Regards,c >g >FC.   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+XI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |sI | Principal Engineer            |  "Those are my principles. If you     |eI | Process Software              |   don't like them I have others."     |eI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |hI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+w   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.625 ************************