1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 10 Nov 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 628       Contents:F Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportF Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportF Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportF Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportF Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportF Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportF Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportF Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportP Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support represent *.*;-0: undocumented feature? ! Re: *.*;-0: undocumented feature?   ABS/MDMS Tape rotation questions& Re: Accessing a OpenVMS server from NT& Re: Accessing a OpenVMS server from NT& Re: Accessing a OpenVMS server from NT! Adding a SCSI disk to a PWS 433au % Re: Adding a SCSI disk to a PWS 433au % Re: Adding a SCSI disk to a PWS 433au  ALL IN ONE installation problem  Re: Alpha equivalent Re: Alpha equivalent Re: Alpha equivalent Re: Alpha equivalent Re: Alpha equivalent! Re: Alpha Hardware Experts...Help ! Re: Alpha Hardware Experts...Help # Re: ALPHA vs. VAX: system disk size 3 Re: Announcement: SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 3 Re: Announcement: SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS Alpha 7.2  Re: APACHE on VMS - CGI  Re: Are there any ECO tools  Re: Are there any ECO tools  Re: avoid DCL limit?- Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86 - Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86 - Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86 - Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86  Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirs Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirs Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirs Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirs Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirs Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirs Re: BLISS and $GETSYI  Re: Boot disk size for 4000 M60  Re: Boot disk size for 4000 M60  Re: Boot disk size for 4000 M60  Re: Boot disk size for 4000 M60  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Re: Broken TK50  Can't hang up modem  Re: Can't hang up modem  Re: Can't hang up modem  Re: Cluster Problem  Re: Cluster Problem  Re: Compaq's brand image compatible OpenVMS 6.2 -> 7.2-1 # Re: compatible OpenVMS 6.2 -> 7.2-1 # Re: compatible OpenVMS 6.2 -> 7.2-1 # Re: compatible OpenVMS 6.2 -> 7.2-1  Re: Curious printing problem Re: Curious printing problem' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed ' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed % Re: DCPS 1.8 and LN32 Duplex Printing  Re: DCPS page width question Re: DCPS page width question DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD ! Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD  Re: DECforms...  Re: DECforms... ! Re: DECnet 5 -> 4 routing problem  DHCP Server Default Route ? , Re: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sans, Re: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sans, Re: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sans, Re: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sans1 Re: Disk write-back cache - how do I turn it off? 1 Re: Disk write-back cache - how do I turn it off? ' Re: Downloading FDL files from FTP site ' Re: Downloading FDL files from FTP site F Downloading software [was: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 services]# Re: Dynamic strings using VAX COBOL + E10000 system problems continue in the news  Re: eBay (guess what) again. Re: eBay (guess what) again. Re: eBay (guess what) again. Re: eBay (guess what) again. Re: eBay (guess what) again.P EDT vs. TPU -- was Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contacta CompaqP Re: EDT vs. TPU -- was Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error;contact a CoP Re: EDT vs. TPU -- was Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error;contact a Co* Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.* Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.& Re: Extending LATNET over dial-up line8 Re: f$cvtime() not adjusting for Daylight Savings Time ?1 FA: Digital DEC LA50/LA75 Printer Ribbon NEW L@@K 2 FA: Reflection 4 For DOS Pc\VAX Terminal Emulation5 Re: FA: Reflection4 For Win DEC VT340/300 ReGIS/Sixel @ Re: Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation. Re: GAWK for VMS?  Re: GAWK for VMS?  HELP !!  System just crashed  Re: HELP !!  System just crashed  Re: HELP !!  System just crashed1 Re: HELP ME: a short survey for course assignment " Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?" Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?" Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?" Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?" Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?) Re: How to stop a VaxStation rebooting...  How to use AUTOGEN feedback?9 Re: I've added a DE500-BA NIC to my 255/300... boot hang? - Re: IP-Verbindung von zu Hause in Deutschland 5 Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful? 9 Re: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful? 9 Re: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful? 9 Re: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful? 9 Re: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful?  Re: Java on Openvms  Re: Java on Openvms 
 kill NSLOOKUP  Latest Compaq Mailing  Re: Latest Compaq Mailing 7 Re: Layered product installation errors on Alpha V7.2-1 A Re: License question: How can I tell if a license if Vax or Alpha  license register Re: license register Re: license register Re: license register Re: Licensing in cluster	 Re: Locks 	 Re: Locks , Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??, Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??, Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??, Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??, Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??, Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??, Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??, Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??0 Re: Memory test or 'public' diagnostic for AS200 Re: Microsoft gets hacked + Re: Need help with $GETUAI in wildcard-mode + Re: Need help with $GETUAI in wildcard-mode + Re: Need help with $GETUAI in wildcard-mode + Re: Need help with $GETUAI in wildcard-mode  Nested DCL symbol names  Re: Nested DCL symbol names  Newbie configuration info  Re: Newbie configuration info * Re: No doubts here (Was: Re: Galaxy doubt)- Re: Non-OpenVMS question (to Andrew Harrison)  Re: Number of users exceeded Re: Number of users exceeded> Re: One for the storage gurus: shadowsets between HSJ and HSGs Re: open an Imac? % Re: OpenVMS 7.1-2 and cluster forming % Re: OpenVMS 7.1-2 and cluster forming & OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 services* Re: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 services* Re: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 services* Re: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 services OpenVMS on 5300  Re: OpenVMS on 5300  Re: OpenVMS on 5300  Re: OpenVMS on 5300  Re: OpenVMS on 5300   Re: Oracle 7 and 8i on same box? Oracle Parallel Server on VMS  Re: Oracle RDB Sql Services  Re: OS Update Ramification Re: OS Update Ramification$ Re: Parsing Query_String with Apache Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS  PERL on VMS " Re: porting from open vms to winnt" Re: porting from open vms to winnt" Re: porting from open vms to winnt  Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMS= Possible performance issues with Samba for VMS (all versions) + Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto / Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto / Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto / Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto / Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto / Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto  Problem with a DCL script  Re: Problem with a DCL script  Re: Problem with a DCL script  Re: Problem with a DCL script  Re: Problem with a DCL script  Re: Problem with a DCL script  Re: Problem with a DCL script  Re: Problem with a DCL script ( Question about locking (sys$enq/sys$deq), Re: Question about locking (sys$enq/sys$deq)" Re: Random User Security Questions Re: Rdb on VMS reference?  Re: Rdb on VMS reference?  Re: Rdb on VMS reference?  Re: RECALL question/suggestion.  Re: RECALL question/suggestion.  Re: Recursive Copying  Re: Recursive Copying  Re: Recursive Copying  Re: Recursive Copying 1 Re: Reg. a problem in the cluster environment ... 2 Re: Research Systems Inc. dropping support for VMS2 Re: Research Systems Inc. dropping support for VMS Re: RTF Reader/Viewer  Re: RTF Reader/Viewer  Re: RTF Reader/Viewer  Re: RTF Reader/Viewer  Re: RTF Reader/Viewer  Re: RTF Reader/Viewer  Re: RTF Reader/Viewer * Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed# Re: shadow question SCSII <--> DSSI # Re: shadow question SCSII <--> DSSI  SHOW PROCESS Re: SHOW PROCESS Re: SHOW PROCESS2 Re: Special Edition of OpenVMS Times now available2 RE: Special Edition of OpenVMS Times now available2 RE: Special Edition of OpenVMS Times now available Re: SSH CRASH A 1000A Server Starting VMS install with cd Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun Bloodies Compaq's Nose( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform+ Re: Sun's haunting ecache problems detailed  Re: SYS$ASCUTC sys$output problem Re: sys$output problem Re: TCP/IP 5.0A ECO Appears  Technology of US elections' Re: the lights are out at Northernlight 
 Re: Time Zone 
 Re: Time Zone , TMSCP Performance (Backup -> ether -> TK70 )+ Re: Transfering users via FTP & email lost.  Use P1 in PIPE Re: Use P1 in PIPE RE: Use P1 in PIPE UTC time change and DTSS' Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files ' Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files ' Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files ' Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files ' Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files ' Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files ' Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files ' Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code ! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code < Re: VAXstation, console terminal, reboot, power-up, license? Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?  Re: VMS databases for hobbyist? . Re: VMS Fortran question: entering hex numbers' Re: VMS VMAIL, SMTP transports, headers ' Re: VMS VMAIL, SMTP transports, headers  VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN  Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN  Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN  Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN  VS4000-60 Parts Needed5 Re: Was Rdb on VMS reference? - now off-topic, pucker  What is VMS? Re: What is VMS? What OpenVMS version? # Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page ) Re: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?  Re: [Fwd: FW: Java on Openvms]& Re: [VMS V7.2] BACKUP Behaviour change& Re: [VMS V7.2] BACKUP Behaviour change  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 22:43:37 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support - Message-ID: <3A024279.9F5454CA@earthlink.net>   9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:  > J >         Please forgive me for reordering David's remarks, but they'll be% >     easier to respond to if I do...  > i > In article <3A00F514.37832A8B@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  > [...about EDT vs. TPU...] & > > *PLENTY* of reasons to not use it! > > J > > Here's a sample (from my EDTINI.EDT file, comments added for clarity): > J > > DEFINE KEY      FUNCTION 34 AS "CHGUSR."(Make select range upper case)J > > DEFINE KEY GOLD FUNCTION 34 AS "CHGLSR."(Make select range lower case) > > : > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  > AS "(SHR)."          (Shift right.)9 > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  < AS "(SHL)."          (Shift left.)  > J >         These four functions  are  already  present  in  the default EVEJ >     section.   Binding them to keys in an initialization file is as easyJ >     as  what  you've  shown  above,  even  if  the  syntax  is  slightly >     different.  = Now: here's the killer: (You'd likely never use this specific ; combination of keys together - it's just to prove a point.)   3 Produce the equivalent of this EDT sequence in TPU:    CTRL+K CTRL+G (SEL 2W CHGUSR W 3W CHGLSR L). ENTER   H Note that "CHGUSR" and CHGLSR" are inserted by pressing the keys DEFINEd as such at EDT startup time.  F For some tasks where others would seek AWK or an equivalent, I use EDTD by defining CTRL+G as above, use GOLD 7 SHOW BUFF <ENTER> to get theF appropriate repeat count, then GOLD count CTRL+G to apply the changes.. Saves TONS of AWK, TPU, etc. programming time.    [snip]? > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  G AS "PASTE=?'Paste from which buffer? '." ; > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  K AS "CUTSR=?'Cut to which buffer? '."  > J >         Here I'll guess that the tools available (EDT vs.  EVE) _impose_J >     a style of work.  I  can't  imagine  why  I'd need to specify "which, >     buffer" for a Cut or Paste operation.   * Think of multiple clipboards in Whinedoze.   > One merely splits the screen,    "Merely" ???!!!   J >     displays  one  buffer in one window and another buffer in the  otherJ >     window, cuts (SELECT/REMOVE or SELECT/STORE  TEXT)  in  one  window,J >     positions  the  cursor  in the other window and pastes (INSERT HERE)& >     there.  Have I missed something? > - > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  A AS "EXT CHANGE =ALT.."  > D >         I simply don't know what this does and so can't comment...  B Does the same as the "split screen" mode you describe: creates andB CHANGEs to an empty buffer called ALT. You can then GOLD 7 INCLUDED filespec to load the file you wish to cut from so you can paste into another buffer.   ; Do this for as many buffers as you like (Remember GOLD B?).   > Upside:   Any inadvertent changes are discarded when you EXIT.> Downside: Any intentional changes are discarded when you EXIT.  ) ...except for the MAIN buffer, of course.    C > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  \ AS "DATE."           (Modelled on WPS-Plus.) @ > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  C AS "D+CCUNDC."     (Transpose characters)< > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  J AS "DEWWUNDW."     (Transpose words.)< > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  L AS "D+NL L UNDL."  (Transpose lines.) > J >         These  are  _trivially_   implemented   as  TPU  functions.   By4 >     "trivially",  I mean 5-10 lines each at most.   6 As opposed to one line each in EDT. My point, exactly.  5 > > DEFINE KEY GOLD  X AS "SEL -KS +C CUTSR=UNPASTE." L > >                                         (An "UNPASTE" key - suffers fromF > >                                          a long-standing EDT bug.) > J >         This is probably  the  hardest  to  implement, _if_ I understandJ >     what  it  does.  If it works in any way like LSE's UNDO command,  itJ >     would be tough to do in EVE.  If the idea is to take the last  rangeJ >     inserted  (PASTE'd)  and  remove  (CUT)  it, that would not be hard,J >     meaning I know  how  I'd  do  it,  but  it  would  be  a  bit of TPU >     programming.  D EDT knows only the length of the last PASTE in bytes, but comes up aD byte short when the PASTEd text crosses one or more line boundaries.D (That's the "bug".) GOLD X ("unpaste"), of course, only works if theC cursor is still (or has been returned to) the end point of the lastF PASTE operation.  oL > > Consider the amount of code needed to replace these functions in TPU andL > > you will understand why EDT remains the editor of choice for many common > > operations.M > J >         No, I disagree.  Not  much  code  at  all  for  13 out of the 14G >     examples you give.  A bit of code for the 14th, but quite doable.i  H If you have the time. I didn't have to read pages and pages of referenceE to develop these functions - most of them came straight from the line A mode HELP. Over the course of the last ten years or so, I've beenaG picking up the TPU reference from time to time trying to re-write these - function keys for EVE/TPU. I'm still stymied.   .K > > (I've been building my EDTINI.EDT file since 1982, and see no reason to ' > > change to TPU at the present time.)  > J >         I not try to evangelize for EVE.  I think editor preferences areJ >     very  personal  and  based   on   familiarity   and  emotions  (like: >     preferences  in  members  of the opposite gender).   [snip]  A I guess my point is that for the work I do, EDT and the uses I'veeG developed for it are just fine. Heck, I've even got it to do a (single) E "change" mode function for an entire buffer, and do it in a batch job D (facilitates emulating BACKUP's /RECORD functionality using DFU: the@ proc. builds DFU commands and "@" files for DFU's SET command by= SEARCHing the BACKUP /LISTings to reduce the data to lists ofnH filespec.'s, prepend the device names back onto the filespec.'s and trimC off the remainder of the line after the first space on the line, ifg any).e  F Your mileage may (and probably will) vary considerably. I just find itF easier than spending hours, days, months or even years researching TPUH functions, developing and/or debuging TPU code, etc. when EDT will do itF with a few keystrokes in a matter of minutes - little, if any, testing and even less debugging.   -- p David J. Dachterab dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:02:58 -0600t7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support - Message-ID: <3A038A72.F29302CB@earthlink.net>i  9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:s > / > In article <3A024279.9F5454CA@earthlink.net>, C >         "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:C= > > "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:o > >>M > >>         Please forgive me for reordering David's remarks, but they'll bee( > >>     easier to respond to if I do... > >>l > >> In article <3A00F514.37832A8B@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: >  > [...]tA > > Now: here's the killer: (You'd likely never use this specifica? > > combination of keys together - it's just to prove a point.)c > >r7 > > Produce the equivalent of this EDT sequence in TPU:  > > 
 > > CTRL+K
 > > CTRL+G" > > (SEL 2W CHGUSR W 3W CHGLSR L).	 > > ENTERe > >mL > > Note that "CHGUSR" and CHGLSR" are inserted by pressing the keys DEFINEd  > > as such at EDT startup time. > J >         Forgive me for asking the  obvious,  but what does the above do?J >     I've  never used EDT so the translation is less than apparent to me.J >     What I'm missing is the significance of "2W","W", "3W" and "L".   MyJ >     best guess (guaranteed wrong!) is that you uppercase 2 words, move aJ >     word,  then  lowercase 3 more words, then ???  That sort of thing is> >     as easy to do in vanilla EVE as what you've shown above.  B Your suppositions are correct. However, how 'bout combining custom
 functions?  0J > > For some tasks where others would seek AWK or an equivalent, I use EDTH > > by defining CTRL+G as above, use GOLD 7 SHOW BUFF <ENTER> to get theJ > > appropriate repeat count, then GOLD count CTRL+G to apply the changes. > J >         EVE also has repeat  counts  and  "learn"  sequences.  I tend toJ >     avoid learn sequences except for one-off edits to a file where thereJ >     are  a  lot  of repetitive actions to be taken.  But  I've  probably6 >     misunderstood what you've accomplished in EDT...   Not really. Same deal.  o
 > > [snip]B > > Upside:   Any inadvertent changes are discarded when you EXIT.B > > Downside: Any intentional changes are discarded when you EXIT. > J >         I don't fully understand the above.  What  I do know is that EVEJ >     will _prompt_ you whether to save any buffer that has been modified.   Exactly my point!a  E Extreme case: one weekend I was awake for almost 48 hours debugging aoF DCL procedure. I had 37 buffers going! Now do you think for one momentD that I was going put up with being asked if I wanted to save all the+ junk in the 36 buffers I didn't care about?A  J >     Of course, you can set any buffer you like to be READ-only, or READ-J >     only  Unmodifiable, as well as Write, with the click of the mouse onJ >     the status line (or on EVE's command line).  READ-only buffers don't >     get written.   Just more work...u  iF > >> > DEFINE KEY GOLD  \ AS "DATE."           (Modelled on WPS-Plus.)C > >> > DEFINE KEY GOLD  C AS "D+CCUNDC."     (Transpose characters)e? > >> > DEFINE KEY GOLD  J AS "DEWWUNDW."     (Transpose words.)i? > >> > DEFINE KEY GOLD  L AS "D+NL L UNDL."  (Transpose lines.)? > >>M > >>         These  are  _trivially_   implemented   as  TPU  functions.   Byn6 > >>     "trivially",  I mean 5-10 lines each at most. > >i: > > As opposed to one line each in EDT. My point, exactly. > J >         Yes and no.  Below you said, "Consider the amount of code neededJ >     to replace these functions in  TPU  ..." I'm stating that the amountJ >     of  code  is  small, not that it's zero.  I'm sure  there  are  someJ >     built-in EVE functions/commands that EDT doesn't have, or can't  do,J >     or  would  require  a  non-trivial EDT macro.  But I'm not trying toJ >     beat up on EDT, nor get anyone to change to EVE.  I'm just trying toJ >     point out that the amount  of  work  you  estimated to get TPU to do6 >     what EDT does for you was greatly overestimated.  F Well, I'm not concerned about the AMOUNT of code - I'm concerned about% the length of the development cycle.    s > [snip]J >         My point in responding in this thread  is not to knock EDT.  FarJ >     from it.  Rather, I wanted to counter some of the knocks against EVE0 >     and TPU.  I hope I've managed that.  YMMV.  G Well, it's not that I'm BASHING TPU, it's just that, as I've said on so @ many other occasions (example: DECnet Phase-V vs. Phase-IV), theF replacement should do *MORE* than the software it replaces OUT OF "THE& BOX" and with *LESS* effort, not more.  E Had DEC actually gone as far as to actually completely rewrite EDT innC TPU (bug-for-bug), THEN they'd have had something that I would haveeB found interesting. For my purposes to date, EDT has been more than sufficient.    O.T.: H I just acquired a new gig and found that one of the nodes may need to beA upgraded to DECnet Phase-IV. I must still determine if it's usingOG functions that rely on Phase-V's esoteric features. If not, guess what?r   -- m David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:45:00 -0600D7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>tO Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportd- Message-ID: <3A03944C.234700E3@earthlink.net>r  9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:  > X > In article <8tvjf1$8ld$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> writes: >  > [...big snip...]H > > I know TPU has a simliar recover function for recovery from a crash,A > > but I don't know if it has the equivalent of EDT's QUIT/SAVE.t > F >         Hey, Ctrl/Y does the trick!  Leaves the journal file withoutF >     saving a new version.  But I've never tried actually _editing_ a4 >     journal file.  Sounds, er, _interesting_.  :-}  E Been there, done that, have the T-shirt, the wall placque, the coffeee mug, ...     -- s David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:37:39 +0100l  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportb+ Message-ID: <VA.0000014f.14082e68@sture.ch>   W In article <YkkJJ$it8pvf@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>, Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; o FAX: 926-3515 wrote:V > From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515) > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Q > Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support  > Date: 3 Nov 2000 17:02:44 PST  > X > In article <8tvjf1$8ld$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> writes: >  > [...big snip...]H > > I know TPU has a simliar recover function for recovery from a crash,A > > but I don't know if it has the equivalent of EDT's QUIT/SAVE.n > F >         Hey, Ctrl/Y does the trick!  Leaves the journal file withoutF >     saving a new version.  But I've never tried actually _editing_ a4 >     journal file.  Sounds, er, _interesting_.  :-} >lH Yup. We were even taught how to do that on an early intro to VMS course.< Brilliant when you've inadvertently deleted a load of lines.  T I must add that in my early days of VMS (V2.3), I was working on a system which was W being pushed to its limits, with guys writing high performance stuff in assembler, and eU we saw quite a few crashes. EDIT/RECOVER swiftly became my best friend. Of course, I AY cannot forget the time I had spent a couple of hours editing a system spec, had a crash, rW watched the full replay of my actions, including typos and corrections, and to ruin it s all by typing QUIT! :-)   J >         BTW, early versions of  EVE/TPU  did keystroke journaling.  ThatJ >     was  fine  but  slow  to recover and produced  perhaps  larger  thanJ >     necessary journal files, IIRC.  More recent versions (at least sinceJ >     VMS 6.x) do "buffer change" journaling.  That may, in fact, be  more >     amenable to editing... > X At one point I deliberately changed back to keystroke journalling. This was at 6.1/6.2, W when trying to recover from a buffer journal gave me an "internal error has occurred - AV please report to DEC". (CSC offered to help me recover the file, but I'd already done  that manually).c   My view of EDT vs TPU:  V EDT can't cope with lines longer than 255 characters. IIRC, nor can it cope with more  than 65K records in a file.e  X TPU can't search for the end of a line. Yes it can search for ^M and ^J (using ^V), but ) it won't find ^M as the record delimiter.-  X TPU's learn facility is simply great for one off stuff. It's advantage over EDT's macro K capability is that you can see the first example taking place as you do it.N  X TPU's windowing facility brought me real productivity gains. Edit the compiler listing, U split the window, go to the command line, hit up arrow, change the file type and hey  ( presto, you've got the source code too.   M TPU's replace function respects the case of words its replacing. Really neat!c  V But for doing stuff in command procedures, (e.g. global replaces) I always go to EDT. V That's probably down to historical reasons, as IIRC early versions of TPU wouldn't do 1 that, I've just never explored TPU to that depth.a  X It's worth noting that in early days, I couldn't use TPU, as I only had VT52 compatible T terminals (not ANSI). One very real advantage of EDT is that it supports line mode, / especially useful when working at the console. S  S It was just on Friday, whilst building a cluster with a couple of PWS 333s, that I  W really wanted to have a full screen editor from the prompt you get with a minimum boot gW (i.e. no Motif). I tried doing a SET TERM/VT52, but it didn't give me that capability.  U However, when I came to do similar on my home Alpha, which is a later model, I found d that it works beautifully!  7 Many thanks to Fred Kleinsorge for that nice touch. :-)o ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:56:42 +0100R  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportm+ Message-ID: <VA.00000150.14877c5a@sture.ch>A  F In article <3A038A72.F29302CB@earthlink.net>, David J. Dachtera wrote:  I > Well, it's not that I'm BASHING TPU, it's just that, as I've said on sotB > many other occasions (example: DECnet Phase-V vs. Phase-IV), theH > replacement should do *MORE* than the software it replaces OUT OF "THE( > BOX" and with *LESS* effort, not more. > G > Had DEC actually gone as far as to actually completely rewrite EDT inbE > TPU (bug-for-bug), THEN they'd have had something that I would havewD > found interesting. For my purposes to date, EDT has been more than
 > sufficient.  >mZ I ignored TPU in its early days because it didn't have any of the neat stuff found in EDT.  M Indeed the first attempt at an EDT style interface was farcical - full screen R mode, no EDT commands, but NO TPU COMMANDS EITHER. Except for it's ability to edit" large files, it was useless to me.   > O.T.:(J > I just acquired a new gig and found that one of the nodes may need to beC > upgraded to DECnet Phase-IV. I must still determine if it's usingtI > functions that rely on Phase-V's esoteric features. If not, guess what?e >uF After my early battles with NCL, that used to be my view. Perhaps I'veQ had time to get used to it, but it has definitely improved since then. (One small P but useful example: "ncl help flush" with VMS V7.2-1 now gives the syntax at the- first help level, rather than 2 levels down).i  S OTOH, my next project is to get TCPIP V5A talking to my ISP. Easy as pie when I did T it on my VAX with UCX, but at one point yesterday TCPIP$CONFIG was suggesting that IM to edit some .CONF file or other, whose syntax I've never come across before.a  S Well, I _never_ thought that one day I might wish that I had UCX back (washes mouthEP out with soap). Time to hit the manuals (and the joys of BNU as well, no doubt). ___i
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:56:43 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support + Message-ID: <VA.00000151.14877fcc@sture.ch>A  = In article <01JW6WUULLYQ0067V2@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>,  wrote: ' > From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Q > Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supporti' > Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 19:02:58 +0010  > # > In reply to nobody in particular.i > K > We have OS wars (anything with Sun or ebay in the subject line is dead), ,  > language wars and editor wars. > R > In this thread which has become an editor war, we seem to be moving through EDT F > and EVE, though SOS and Emacs have been brought into the discussion. >eM Someone once told me that SOS originally stood for Son Of Standalone. Is thatb correct?  R > When I moved to VMS, TPU was the first/only editor I used.  Quite often editors Q > are a pain in the proverbial.  We have people here saying xxx editor does this   > and yyy does not.s > R > To me, an editor is something that just changes my source file.  I frustrate my R > colleagues when they use my session to try to edit a file.  I have no whiz-bang  > this or that, keys, etc.   > P I too tend to keep it to a minimum. Same with login.com, as I can still functionP on a virgin system without much difficulty. I will define EVE$KEYPAD as EDT, andR use a section file to get ONE, TWO, and SET WIDTH 80/132 defined as function keys.  O There's nothing worse than logging on to someone else's system and finding thattA they have a completely different set of commands and key mapping!i  L > My first editor was on an IBM system back in the 1960's.  Non-interactive S > editing was done by quoting a line number and/or a character within the line and z > working from that point. > Q > Quite often, I find that the more I have to think when editing, the more I get i > right.  And vice versa.m > N My first editor was EDIT.SAV on RT-11, which was like a subset of TECO. Before that it was punch cards! ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 13:32:37 PSTnT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support'3 Message-ID: <gigXmk7Jujih@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>e  . In article <3A038A72.F29302CB@earthlink.net>, >     	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:; > "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:)# [...example EDT commands elided...]wD > Your suppositions are correct. However, how 'bout combining custom > functions?           Works fine, no problem.n   [...]pK >>         I don't fully understand the above.  What  I do know is that EVE K >>     will _prompt_ you whether to save any buffer that has been modified.  >  > Exactly my point!  > G > Extreme case: one weekend I was awake for almost 48 hours debugging aeH > DCL procedure. I had 37 buffers going! Now do you think for one momentF > that I was going put up with being asked if I wanted to save all the- > junk in the 36 buffers I didn't care about?f  H         Then you "WRITE *" the  buffer  you _want_, followed by QUIT andH     answer  YES  to the prompt of whether you really want to  quit,  notH     saving changes you've made (to various  buffers).   One  prompt  and
     response.p  H [...exchange about what it would take to implement various EDT functions     in TPU elided...] H > Well, I'm not concerned about the AMOUNT of code - I'm concerned about' > the length of the development cycle.    H         For the (relatively) simple  functions  we  were discussing, theH     development cycle is very fast, IMHO.  You compose a TPU function inH     the  editor,  you compile it by issuing the EXTEND THIS  (or  EXTENDH     TPU) command, then you invoke it to see if it does what you  expect.H     If  you  want to bind the new function to a keypress, you just issue     the DEFINE KEY command.a  H         Errors in compiling,  i.e.,  syntax  errors,  are written to theH     Message  buffer with line numbers, so if you made a typo, you  checkH     the Message buffer for the error and location, and since  you  stillH     have  the  new  function  in  a  buffer,  you just go fix it withoutH     leaving the editor.  Then  another  EXTEND.   When you're happy withH     the  function, you save it to a file, or add it to your  TPU$COMMAND6     file, etc., if you want it to always be available.  H         Only when you've collected  enough  of  these  little (or not soH     little)  functions  that it begins to get awkward to manage them  asH     separate files, or your TPU$COMMAND file has  grown  so  large  thatH     _it_  has  become  awkward  to  manage or significantly slows editorH     startup, do you need to  think  about creating a private EVE section     file (using EVE$BUILD).r   [...].I > Well, it's not that I'm BASHING TPU, it's just that, as I've said on soeB > many other occasions (example: DECnet Phase-V vs. Phase-IV), theH > replacement should do *MORE* than the software it replaces OUT OF "THE( > BOX" and with *LESS* effort, not more. > G > Had DEC actually gone as far as to actually completely rewrite EDT insE > TPU (bug-for-bug), THEN they'd have had something that I would haveiD > found interesting. For my purposes to date, EDT has been more than
 > sufficient.   H         Sure, I accept that argument.  DEC  could have done a better jobH     with  the  EDT  emulator  under TPU.  They could even  have  done  aH     command-mode emulation that parsed EDT macros,  etc.   Some  of  theH     screen mode stuff might not be possible (such as the recent questionH     about  wrapping long lines) because the underlying screen manager isH     so different.  However, wasn't  this  all  going  on during the daysH     when  Digital  "knew" better what was best for their customers  than'     the customers themselves?!  Sigh...   H         [Question: how many  times  have  you  seen  ads  for EDT or TPUH     emulators  on non-VMS platforms that _only_ provided an EDT  numericH     keypad mapping and none of the editors' other functinality?   In  my5     experience that's been the _majority_ of them...]n           -Ken -- nM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Eduu:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:43:07 +0100p  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>O Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq supportt+ Message-ID: <VA.0000015e.20ed1424@sture.ch>   D In article <3a0695e1.2406771063@news.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig wrote:  G > Son Of Stopgap it said in the sources. There used to be a VMS versionmH > of SOS. Wonder if that still exists anywhere for possible inclusion onE > the Freeware CD. There are times on a dumb terminal or with poor VT C > emulation where I know I could do something quicker with SOS thanI> > trying to use EDT in line mode. Suppose there's always teco. > B The VMS version is the only one I came across. Perhaps the Son of  Standalone stood well there.  F I doubt whether SOS still exists in a form which still runs on modern 7 VMS , as it was of the era of compatibility mode stuff.t  E I note that SUMSLP is still here on Alpha V.7.2-1, although I cannot t remember how to run it.r   ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 08:19:18 -0500E, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)Y Subject: Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contact a Compaq support representh+ Message-ID: <2Xiy342P2gMj@eisner.decus.org>s  o In article <1ne20t0qm4gpnu41iccbse213n4i1euush@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> writes:t > D > Out of interest, has TPU been significantly developed ?  (Or EVE?) >   F Not long after it was introduced the EDT keypad emulation was providedC for EVE.  LSE was developed on TPU.  DECwindows support was added auI couple years after TPU came out, and then box mode editting was provided.o. Other small features were added along the way.  D But it's been years since box mode editting was added.  It does whatF it's supposed to do as it is, sometimes a mature but supported product is a good thing.  F I just wish they'd froze EDT a little sooner than they did.  Took awayF s/^M/^MC/[range] which I used to use to comment out blocks of Fortran,A can be applied to lots of other languages, too.  That's the last  $ significant change I know of to EDT.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation-= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouprE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingD   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:27:00 -0600D> From: "Dryjanski, Tomasz" <Tomasz.Dryjanski@intl.fritolay.com>& Subject: *.*;-0: undocumented feature?- Message-ID: <0G3S00NW1BCOQ3@mx.east.saic.com>n  4      I observed, that *.*;-0 is equivalent to *.*;0,"      but a.txt;-0 equals a.txt;-1.C      Do you know the meaning of -0, explaining described behaviour?i      sJ      I need it as one of previous system managers used it in an important C      script and I would like to understand it before any changes...t      e      TIA
      T. D.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 17:45:56 PSTeT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)* Subject: Re: *.*;-0: undocumented feature?3 Message-ID: <gEDx3f3y6gmm@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   . In article <0G3S00NW1BCOQ3@mx.east.saic.com>, D     "Dryjanski, Tomasz" <Tomasz.Dryjanski@intl.fritolay.com> writes:6 >      I observed, that *.*;-0 is equivalent to *.*;0,  H         No, that is not  the  case.   x.y;0  gives the _highest_ versionA     number, x.y;-0 gives the _lowest_ version number of the file.d  $ >      but a.txt;-0 equals a.txt;-1.  H         That will happen if  there  are  only  two versions of the file.H     x.y;-1  gives  the next lower numbered version of the file,  but  ifH     there are only two versions of the file, that  is  also  the  lowest;     version number of the file.  There is no contradiction.2  H         If you can show an  example  where  what I've described is _not_H     the  case, post the evidence here, along with VMS version: it  would     be a bug in DCL.           -Ken -- rM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edua:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:02:48 GMTn, From: Dave Harrold <DRHarrold@earthlink.net>) Subject: ABS/MDMS Tape rotation questions_8 Message-ID: <oapl0tktapbq8mu5g8ouml54umuljjp9rh@4ax.com>  E I am in the process of installing and configuring ABS and MDMS V3.0B.l0 We are using a TL895 library with 4 TZ89 drives.  B I am having a difficult time trying to figure out and plan for theC tape rotation.  What I would like to have is a Full backup once persD week and incrementals the other 6 days.  After that cycle is done, IB want all of the tapes used in that rotation to be ejected from theF library to be sent off-site.  I can't seem to have this setting of theC tape in MDMS to be OFFSITE be automatically.  Do I have to manually 3 set the offsite date?  If so, how are you doing it?y  D Any thoughts would be appreciated.  As well as any other hints about( using these products to do your backups.   Thanks,    Dave Harrold         V ======================================================================================V Dave Harrold                                          E-Mail: David_Harrold@Aurora.orgL Sr. Software Systems Engineer                         Phone : (414) 647-6204L Aurora Health Care                                    FAX   : (414) 647-4999I 3031 W. Montana Street                                Milwaukee, WI 53234l  X "A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to/ underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 08:13:17 -0500e# From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>M/ Subject: Re: Accessing a OpenVMS server from NT & Message-ID: <3A0AA2ED.6E9@adldata.com>  ; You need to install a pathworks licensing component on the  ; PC. Installing pathworks on the server alone is not enough.n   sol gongolad    " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > M > Check your network card, drivers and connection on the PC. That is a common M > symptom of the network card and/or driver having a problem. As a veteran ofgJ > countless Quake LAN games, setting up the networks on the fly, I've seenK > this many times. You might also want to check you've got the file sharing(7 > loaded by trying to share out one of the PC's drives.l >  > Shanet > 9 > casinoop2@aol.com (CasinoOp2) on 11/08/2000 03:57:56 PMt >  > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh > cc:h > . > Subject:  Accessing a OpenVMS server from NT > I > Does anyone know what is required to access an OpenVMS file server from 	 > WindowsfK > NT? What I want to do is map a network drive to a specific VMS directory.o > WhenL > I try to search the network (Network Neighborhood/ Entire Network/ Netware > orM > Compatible Network) all I get is "Unable to browse the network. The network L > path was not found.". What am I not thinking of? What is meant by "networkE > path" anyway? I have installed Pathworks and the server is properlym > providinghI > the licenses for pwxxwinat07.01, and pwlmxxxca07.02. I can login to theF > serverM > with Reflection X or PowerTerm 525. I can transfer files using ftp. But for- > the-K > life of me I cannot map a drive. There must be someone out there that canu > pointu > me in the right direction. >  > Clark Calkins, engineera > Schafer Corporationg > ccalkins@schafercorp.com   ------------------------------   Date: 09 Nov 2000 21:34:19 GMT# From: casinoop2@aol.com (CasinoOp2)t/ Subject: Re: Accessing a OpenVMS server from NT : Message-ID: <20001109163419.10822.00001453@ng-md1.aol.com>  1 >What about the permissions on the server share? h  D Boy I am feeling real dumb, what is a "server share"? How do I check permissions?   >By what name does the servera >"see" the client?    G The Pathworks License Manager shows the clients by the name I gave themuK ("PC0001" for lack of a better idea). Both the client name and user name. In used the group "default".o      Clark   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:58:41 -0500 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>y/ Subject: Re: Accessing a OpenVMS server from NTo' Message-ID: <3A0B7271.239D@adldata.com>.  = Pathworks can work with either tcpip, decnet, netbeui, and i m' think ipx. This gets configured in VMS.i  2 On the PC, you have to associate the protocol you ; are using with the Pathworks License (in the bindings tab?)n: and in the advanced tab try checking 'set this protocol to9 be the default protocol'. That insures that the protocol a8 used for the netbios connection to pathworks is the one  with the license.f  	 good luckv sol gongola.     CasinoOp2 wrote: > = > >You need to install a pathworks licensing component on thet= > >PC. Installing pathworks on the server alone is not enoughy > L > I believe I have in that the License Server logs show two licenses grantedD > (PWLMXXXCA07.02 and PWXXWINAT07.01). Are there other I need maybe? >  >    Clark Calkins >   ccalkins@schafercorp.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:41:02 GMTd; From: poll@hhunospam.uni-duesseldorf.de (Dr. Wolfgang Poll)s* Subject: Adding a SCSI disk to a PWS 433au9 Message-ID: <3a0a6cce.5648492@news.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de>    Hello,  B I'm trying to upgrade a Digital Personal Workstation 433au running= OpenVMS 7.1-1H2 with a new 9 GB harddisk. Neither as externaleE additional disk nor as a replacement for the second built-in harddisk1C I can get the disk initialized. In Console mode with "show dev" thegB disk is recognized as DKA600 and correctly identified as a QuantumC Atlas disk. Under VMS using the command "show devices d" I also can D see the disk as DKA600:, but it is offline and error count is set toE one. When I try "init dka600: data2" I get the error message that thea1 device is not in configuration or is unavailable.d   What am I missing?   Thanks for any help. -- i
 Wolfgang Pollh  @ For direct replies please remove "hhunospam" from email address.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:06:13 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>. Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI disk to a PWS 433au+ Message-ID: <8ue0g5$htq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>r  H "Dr. Wolfgang Poll" <poll@hhunospam.uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote in message3 news:3a0a6cce.5648492@news.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de...s  B > In Console mode with "show dev" the disk is recognized as DKA600C > and correctly identified as a Quantum Atlas disk. Under VMS usingyB > the command "show devices d" I also can see the disk as DKA600:,K > but it is offline and error count is set to one. When I try "init dka600: H > data2" I get the error message that the device is not in configuration > or is unavailable. >e > What am I missing?  F An analysis of the error log? This is normal behaviour for a disk thatC is unacceptable to the VMS drivers. There should be an entry in thehH error log giving more information. If you are lucky there will either be1 some parameters you can tweak or a driver update.o  G See deja for previous discussions on the fussiness of the disk drivers.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 19:08:40 -0500f2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger). Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI disk to a PWS 433auL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0911001908400001@user-2ive69p.dialup.mindspring.com>  k In article <3a0a6cce.5648492@news.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de>, Wolfgang.Poll@hhunospam.uni-duesseldorf.de wrote:1   > Hello, > D > I'm trying to upgrade a Digital Personal Workstation 433au running? > OpenVMS 7.1-1H2 with a new 9 GB harddisk. Neither as externaloG > additional disk nor as a replacement for the second built-in harddiskoE > I can get the disk initialized. In Console mode with "show dev" the D > disk is recognized as DKA600 and correctly identified as a QuantumE > Atlas disk. Under VMS using the command "show devices d" I also caniF > see the disk as DKA600:, but it is offline and error count is set toG > one. When I try "init dka600: data2" I get the error message that the 3 > device is not in configuration or is unavailable.k >  > What am I missing?   This sounds like a problem that is fixed by upgrading to VMS 7.1-2 or later.  But I make no promises.  In a 600au, we had to upgrade in order to make a Quantum 36 GB disk useful, but I don't remember which family of Quantum it was.    In the error log output, there was something about a "SCSI version" for the drive, IIRC.  It was 3, and the older drivers wanted it to be 2.  L The 7.1-2 CD is under $20, and it is an easy upgrade.  There is no reason to, continue with 7.1-1H2 on a DPW.  Just do it.   -- n Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:56:47 +0100t  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>( Subject: ALL IN ONE installation problem+ Message-ID: <VA.00000156.14878df5@sture.ch>e  D Having got my Hobbyist licenses, and lots of disk space to go at, I G thought I'd start "An Installation Marathon", so I started with All In  C One. Running the Prerequisite Checks (PC) option, it choked on the  , TCPIP version number. See below for details.  F Also I am rather confused as to what All In One licenses are provided  in the Hobbyist kit.  F Does anyone know what these represent in relation to the installation # options? The Hobbyist licenses are:    ALLIN1-MAIL-DW-CLIENTn ALLIN1-MAIL-SERVER ALLIN1-MAIL-SERVER-USERe ALLIN1-MAIL-VT-CLIENTi ALLIN1-MAIL-VT-USERf ALLIN1-MAIL-WAN-SERVER    C * Do you want Office Server to be configured to use Message Router s [NO]?   E %A1-I-CHKSWPR, Checking MANDATORY and OPTIONAL software prerequisites   ' %A1-I-CHKVMSV, Checking OpenVMS versionD  7 %A1-I-DDIF, Checking CDA support software prerequisitest7 %A1-I-CDAVER, Your system has CDA V1.8-981106 installed   * %A1-I-CHKUCX, Checking for TCP/IP Services/ %A1-I-CHKPV2, Can't parse image ident: V5.0A-1A : %A1-E-CHKPRODVER, Fatal error occurred in KICHKPRODVER.COM  D %A1-E-RETRY1, Please correct any reported problems before attempting' %A1-E-RETRY2, to install Office Server.i  = %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of A1 V5.0 has failed.r  >     Adding history entry in VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL.HISTORY    )         VMSINSTAL procedure done at 12:56.   ___l
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandN   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 19:56:04 GMTl From: bawilhelm@my-deja.comV Subject: Re: Alpha equivalent ) Message-ID: <8tsgse$lnj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   . Thanks to Gorazd Kikelj for his helpful reply.  ' As far as the unsure future of OpenVMS.a  C When companies like Oracle scale down their support of a particulara? platform and you are purchasing a new system based on an OraclesE database, it makes you a little uneasy about investing a considerablec@ amount of money in that direction.  When people like Gartner areB telling upper management that the future is questionable and otherF software vendors are discontinuing VMS as an "approved" configuration, that seems pretty shaky to me.  E I am not saying that these companies are right, I am just saying thateE the decisions/recomendations they make have an impact on the decisionn process   B As I said, now that Oracle has moved VMS back to tier 1 status, itD makes VMS a much more viable option.  I personally prefer VMS and am9 very happy we are once again considering it as an option.e  $ Thank You for your helpful comments.  
 Brent Wilhelmm System Administrator/DBA Salisbury State UniversityG (soon to be Salisbury University,  Thank God, I won't have to listen toe! the Salisbury Steak joke anymore).    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.|   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 12:14:17 -0700d1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)  Subject: Re: Alpha equivalent5, Message-ID: <DTaLMAdJo0ZI@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  3 In article <C84BOmNGaEu6Mt0vRk7hcj7NkcZc@4ax.com>, i5    David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com> writes:.   > = > Considering that 80% to 90% of the databases running on VMS > > are owned by Oracle (either Oracle or Rdb), I would think it< > would be in Compaq's best interest to ensure that boosting7 > Oracle on VMS is in the best interest of Oracle Corp.< >   :     I agree. What I'm not sure of is whether the purported9 renewed interest in VMS by Oracle is a change on Oracle'se; part to care about those customers or if it's a case ( likes; Win2K on Alpha ) of Compaq throwing buckets of money at theu@ project. If the latter case then we might expect that if (when?)8 that funding dries up Oracle may start treating VMS like Microsoft treats Alpha.   > > On a side note, I find it just as sad that my company does a9 > shoddy job of promoting SAS on VMS, especially with the ; > 64-bit and DecThreads enhancements on the way in the next  > major release.  Go figure ...o > ;     I didn't realize that SAS still ran on VMS. But then wel7 use SPSS around here and the VMS version was dropped inr( favour of the PC version many years ago.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2000 01:53 -0400 From: hein@eps.zko.dec.c*m Subject: Re: Alpha equivalentD% Message-ID: <3NOV200001531008@miasys>c  I In article <8ts23a$7ei$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, bawilhelm@my-deja.com writes...gB >We will soon be implementing PeopleSoft HR, FR and Student at our :rH >for the project and I am wodering if someone could give me a comparableF >alpha configuration based on performance.  I have been looking at theH >specs of both architectures and have been having difficulty coorelating	 >the two.T >  >Sun Enterprise 4500 Server . >4 x 400MHZ UltraSPARC CPU's 8M external cache >4 Gbyte memorya  
 Check out:  J    http://www.oracle.com/apps_benchmark/html/index.html?0027A_Report1.html  G    This suggest 14 Sun CPU's doing less that twice the work of 4 Alpha.e/    It confirms the earlier 2-for-1 suggestion. hH    So if Sun proposes 4 400 Mhz CPUs, then a 2 CPU ES40 can be expected =    to perform comparably, with room to spare in the same box.s    B    Further growth available now though the GS (80,160,320) series,G    and a series of planned CPU and architecture improvements over time.-  E     (the GS320 results on that same page were admittedly not stellar. D      we believe that to have been an application bottleneck which we)      can and will address, and re-audit).   '    On other web-page to check could be:m? 	http://www.ideasinternational.com/benchmark/sap/sap2tcsR4.html0C    Again you'll see the ES40 @ 4CPU doing a fine job to be comparedk'    with 8-cpu Intel/Sparc alternatives.d  
    Good luck,? 		Hein.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 02:40:58 +0000q% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>q Subject: Re: Alpha equivalentw* Message-ID: <3A04C8BA.3435A683@virgin.net>   >rI > > Not directly Oracle related but the Wihitehouse is moving back to VMS H > > for its mail backbone as they haven't been able to get anything likeD > > their old reliability since phasing out VMS in favour of PC mail > > systems. [...] >:/ >         Interesting.  Do you have a referencen  4 Steve Hoffman, DECUS, London: VMS Future, last week.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:03:10 -0600t+ From: "Randy Jung" <rpjung@mb.sympatico.ca>. Subject: Re: Alpha equivalenti0 Message-ID: <1MMN5.3434$ae5.79325@news1.mts.net>  : "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message# news:3A06E2B6.5D1C7DDB@bbc.co.uk...  >. >  > Alan Greig wrote:v >i > > > I > > > > Not directly Oracle related but the Wihitehouse is moving back tot VMStL > > > > for its mail backbone as they haven't been able to get anything likeH > > > > their old reliability since phasing out VMS in favour of PC mail > > > > systems. [...] > > >r3 > > >         Interesting.  Do you have a reference  > >t8 > > Steve Hoffman, DECUS, London: VMS Future, last week. >2< > Now, I wonder who told them to dump their VMS solution and > deploy Exchange? > 4 > enough to make you weep if what I suspect is true. >   K This tweeks my memory. I'm not sure if I remember this correctly or not but I a long time ago I was on a course (DECnet/OSI) with a system manager thatdJ worked in the Whitehouse. Apparently after the Clinton administration cameG in they were shocked by the primitive (i.e. not PC GUI) mail system the-L Whitehouse had. That may have been the cause for the dumping of the VMS mailK system (I think he said it was All-in-1 but that was too long ago for me to:H rely on my memory).  Maybe someone on the newgroup knows the real story.L Will this cause the critical VMS swing vote to vote Republican tomorrow :-)?   >> > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukn >rC > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.e >l Cheers,e   Randy    ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 03:40:05 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>* Subject: Re: Alpha Hardware Experts...Help' Message-ID: <G3qnIt.3HH@spcuna.spc.edu>   $ fooguy <jweisen@my-deja.com> writes:J > Sadly, I can't make Compaq put more than four drive bays in a DS20, or 1 > in the DS10L.s  I   Eh? I have a pair of DS20's with 7 bays in the SW part, plus the CD-ROMhI above the indicator panel. Both of mine happen to have the bays split be-=G tween 2 of the 3 channels of the 3-channel RAID card, but you can cable  them up however you like.-  H   The newer DS20E seems to have a less-useful disk configuration out-of-G the-box, though the configurator says there are a large variety of disk G expansion cabinets available: BA36R-RC, DS-BA356-Kx, RA8000, ESA 12000,  and others.   4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:13:31 -0500-+ From: Jeff Morgan <morgan@barney.coats.com>1* Subject: Re: Alpha Hardware Experts...HelpO Message-ID: <6C562FA69CDF4986.95712CF7CDB11D17.907DD245265ABFA4@lp.airnews.net>d  
 fooguy wrote:  >  > ? > We run Oracle here, and we know we need lots of disks in our p
 > new system. H > That said, our database (and user community) is pretty small. Ideally,? > we're looking at 18 disks, 16 online, one hot space, and one  
 > cold spare.  > 	 > Thanks,  > John   John:t  F   Here's my favorite Oracle server configuration for a server like the  DS20 in a standalone situation:   D   Use 2 dual ultra-scsi KZPCM-DA controllers connected to 4 BA356-RCB Ultra-blue shelves with BN37A-02 cables. This will require two PCIE slots. Use DECraid and Volume shadowing for 0+1...split the raid sets2B across multiple buses and shelves for performance and reliability.E Controllers are rated at 10k I/Os per second each @ 40MB/sec and alsoyH include a 10/100 ethernet on-board (which I don't use). Load the shelvesH up with as many DS-RZ1EA-VW 18gb drives (or 9gb or 36gb) as you need, up% to a half terabyte with 18gb drives. e  E   All of this will easily fit in one rack with room left over. With aN> deep rack, you can fit the shelves back to back to save space.  B   If you need to save money, you can get a BA356-xx variant with aH different "personality module" that allows you to split the shelf into 2E logical shelves. You could get by with 2 shelves containing 14 drives7D and have 2 cold spare drives. With 0+1 you probably don't need a hotH standby drive. Losing one drive isn't going to be a performance hit likeA raid 5. If you do lose a drive, VMS doesn't mind when you snap in  replacement drives "live".     Very fast and very reliable.  E   If you need an easy way to do Oracle cold backups, add a 3rd mirror-G drive and you can "clone" a backup set in about a minute. Here's how itsC works: Shut down the database, peel off a clone backup set (DECraidDH command), restart the database and let the users go back to work, backupH the clone at your convenience and then add the drives back to the shadowH sets for the next night. Everything happens live except during the cloneA process. The 3rd drive should also improve your read performance.l   			*JM*e   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Nov 2000 17:20:21 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> , Subject: Re: ALPHA vs. VAX: system disk size7 Message-ID: <rjqlmuydbca.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>l  , helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:  J > I have about 120 MB free on my 1 GB (RZ26F) ALPHA system disk.  This is J > a "standard" 7.2-1 installation (upgraded from 7.1, which was installed K > from scratch), i.e. full VMS plus DECwindows, TCPIP services etc.  There  7 > are a few layered products, mostly about 4 compilers.  >  > Three questions. > C > First, what would be the minimum size system disk for a VAX, withsH > (roughly) the same amount of stuff?  (The VAX system disks I have are  > not fully loaded.)  + 1 GB. you have space left, unlike an Alpha.r   > K > Second, will the minimum size for VAX or ALPHA (1 GB now, I guess) for a s; > standard installation increase in the foreseeable future?  > E > Third, what is the optimum ratio of free to used space on a disk?   . > Assume that it is defragmented often enough.  7 You don't NEED much free space, but the lack is a pain.h    6 Rule of thumb for Alphas. Page plus Dump plus a bit...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.4@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 09:53:36 GMT % From: "P.Lj" <plj@byron.ext.telia.se>o< Subject: Re: Announcement: SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS Alpha 7.22 Message-ID: <3A06802A.B50E849A@byron.ext.telia.se>  + http://eisner.decus.org/~mamberg/frontport/e   gave me:  # Error(400): Error opening directory     	 >>> ^P.Ljn     "John E. Malmberg" wrote:   > >     SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS ALPHA is now in shape for a more >     general test.i > D >     The VAX build still has problems with the NMBD.  I do not know6 >     when I will be able to do anything more with it. >n@ >     See http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/samba/ for the kits. >e; >     This version needs the FRONTPORT shared image porting-# >     library that can be found at:0 >31 >     http://eisner.decus.org/~mamberg/frontport/  >jF >     There are two source kits, one is the original UNIX sources in aB >     ZIP archive instead of a GZIP archive for the convenience ofD >     VMS users.  The other kit is just the VMS specific source code >     in a ZIP archive.m > F >     If you just want the images, the "BASE" kit has object files andE >     a procedure that will link them on your system.  Also procedurei& >     to add it to the system startup. > I >     I do not know if this is faster or slower than the earlier versions ? >     of SAMBA for OpenVMS.  It is very close to having all thei( >     functionality of the UNIX version. > & >     Some highlights for SAMBA 2.0.6. > + >     * Server supports Encrypted Passwordsu >c  >     * Oplocks and RMS locking. >u' >     * SMBSTATUS reports locked files.m > > >     * Incoming NET SEND messages addressed to the server are% >       translated to OPCOM messages.  >eA >     * The SMBD program can be run interactively or by the TCPIPsD >       auxiliary server.  When run interactively, the output can beA >       redirected on the command line if the debug level is 4 orc >       higher.C >dG >     * You can specify the attributes of files that are created on the.A >       SMBD server.  A template file is provided for .EXE files.d >s@ >     Large files that are pushed from an NT system must be sentI >     with an extension that is configured for a fixed format file.  Thisr& >     is a limitation in this release. >a? >     I found in testing the sending of an 8 Megabyte file thateC >     Windows NT will send sections of the file out of order, and Id/ >     do not know how big a file triggers this.  >oC >     As it is a very complex program, I have not been able to test   >     every feature and setting. >iD >     I suspect that I have one of the shared image transfer vectorsB >     wrong on the VAX version, but I do not know when I will have >     time to look at it.  >eB >     To build the source, you need DEC C 6.0 or later, and either! >     Compaq MMS or MadGoat Make.m >aC >     The layout of source is designed to make it easier to keep insA >     synchronization with the UNIX Samba versions.  Most patchesiB >     for the SAMBA product can be directly applied to the source. >tB >     I may not be able to give timely responses to questions, but< >     post them on the samba_vms@samba.org or comp.os.vms orB >     info-vax@mvb.saic.com mailing list, and possibly someone can >     help with them.t >e >     So have fun. >  > -Johni > wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:49:53 +0100e2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)< Subject: Re: Announcement: SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS Alpha 7.2; Message-ID: <3a06e131.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>o  $ P.Lj (plj@byron.ext.telia.se) wrote: : "John E. Malmberg" wrote:rB : >     See http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/samba/ for the kits. : >e3 : >     http://eisner.decus.org/~mamberg/frontport/  :I- : http://eisner.decus.org/~mamberg/frontport/o
 : gave me:% : Error(400): Error opening directorys  @ Can you see the difference between the first and the second URL?> Take the part up to the next-to-last slash from the first URL,= and the "frontport/" part from the second URL, and try again.   2 And next time, please apply a bit of common sense.   cu,-   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deTN One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:54:12 GMTX, From: alphaman-nix-spam@hsv.sungardtrust.com  Subject: Re: APACHE on VMS - CGI) Message-ID: <8tun30$er7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   A In article <001301c0458b$ac82ae30$223b003e@ntlab_nts.gtek.co.il>,s1   Gennady Meergus <gennady@pbr.gtekil.com> wrote:  :v :i( > Apparently, this does not work on VMS.D > It just shows me content of the file instead of running it anyway.  E Sounds like you're including the ".com" extension on your URL.  Leave_A the .com off, (e.g., /cgi-bin/test instead of /cgi-bin/test.com).a  
 Good luck, Aaron1 --  OpenVMS: the OS MS wanted NT 2B.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.$   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 15:41:32 -0500 * From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)$ Subject: Re: Are there any ECO tools+ Message-ID: <lutVsTN5nM3e@eisner.decus.org>d  x In article <kBEN5.3032$mq1.206106@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:   > J > Even something like a new ECO rollup (eg:  VMS 7.2-2) would be extremely
 > helpful. > 2 > Does anyone else agree, or am I just being lazy. > I > Does anyone know which ECOs I need for Fibre Channe. and weather or notk% > there are any for gigabit ethernet?c >   B 	Yes.. this does consume most of the time in preparing to upgrade.  = 	No you are not being lazy.  VMS Engineering is listening andn; 	as Hoff pointed out before they intend to do more rollups.   D 	Maybe we get a 7.2-2 as 7.3 moves into production Q12001.  Would be 	nice.   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 15:51:28 -0500r0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>$ Subject: Re: Are there any ECO tools2 Message-ID: <2hgHOg9WFDzTE+8yaEzWRLd4Hwb+@4ax.com>  @ Unfortunately, there isn't a utility to analyze and apply what's9 needed.  However, I'll send you my list; it's up to date.-  7 The ones with the # at the end have been superceded andm5 not all the patches apply to our system here; it's anu AlphaServer 4100 5/533.a   David R. Beattyl  . On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:34:24 GMT, "John Nixon"# <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> wrote:d  K >When we upgraded to Alpha VMS 7.2-1 several months ago, we applied all thetI >patches in the list on DSN that applied to us. However, that list is notlH >updated very frequently (the latest one now is as of Aug 30) and I know- >there have been several released since then.l >oM >We are going to add fibre channel adpaters, and I need to locate all related H >patches.  I also need to find out if there are any required patches forJ >gigabit ethernet.  We are going to be replacing our fddi and 10baseT withK >gigabit (which we have already purchased).   While applying ECOs, I wantedaC >to see if there are any other critical patches we should consider.e >iD >However, when I went to the ECO page on the VMS web site, I startedM >scrolling down and counting.  I stopped counting before reaching the halfway $ >point, and I counted over 150 ECOs. >hJ >It would sure be nice if there was a utility we could download that wouldM >analyze our system, and accept user input (like planning to add fibrechannelrJ >and gigabit) and come up with a list of ECOs, and the order in which they >need to be applied. >aI >Even something like a new ECO rollup (eg:  VMS 7.2-2) would be extremelye	 >helpful.  >s1 >Does anyone else agree, or am I just being lazy.t >aH >Does anyone know which ECOs I need for Fibre Channe. and weather or not$ >there are any for gigabit ethernet? >n >Thanks.	 >    Johne >o   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 09:44:24 +0100cC From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)s Subject: Re: avoid DCL limit? - Message-ID: <3a07c0e8.0@news.uni-konstanz.de>   B In article <8u6r4a$cur$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:a* |>I have a .COM file which has a line like |>5 |>   $  SEARCH/MATCH=NOR/OUTPUT=file2.txt file1.txt -  |>      string1, - |>      string2, - |>      string3, - |>      string4  |>H |>etc.  I add more strings from time to time.  Today, I started getting H |>strange errors, and suspect the problem is that the entire command is ( |>more than 1024 characters or whatever. |>H |>Is there any way around this, short of splitting it up into more than J |>one command (not a problem here), causing additional temporary files (a  |>problem here)? |>D |>Is there any chance that this limit (or other DCL limits) will be  |>relaxed in the future?   |>   Phillip,  G I do not have a solution, but accidently I've noticed the same problem::  G A very popular Quantum-chemistry-code called Gamess (US) starts  remote J processes. You have to send a lots of parameters during the startup of the remote process.d  ? To be specific all nodes you want to use in parallel need to bea specified, ie:  B rshell/inpu=nl:/output=tt:/user=heuser mars-l.rz.uni-konstanz.de -E "~/gamess.00.x  exam01 dg3-e.chemie.uni-konstanz.de 1456 2 /tmp_usr 6r dg3-e.chemie.uni-konstanz.de - mars-l.rz.rz.uni-konstanz.de - mars-l.rz.rz.uni-konstanz.de - mars-l.rz.rz.uni-konstanz.de - mars-l.rz.rz.uni-konstanz.de - mars-l.rz.rz.uni-konstanz.de - mars-l.rz.rz.uni-konstanz.de"   < Sooner or later you will run against this damned dcl-border.  D BTW: I have successfully changed the gamess-code in order to use theH computer center ES40 machines running Tru64 in conjunction with OpenVMS.H The code is goood enough to use 10 or even more machines in parallel butF if you stuck at that simple point you'll get frustrated more and more.   Eberhard   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:51:48 -0500l' From: "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov> 6 Subject: Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86+ Message-ID: <3A0B0054.86FFBFDB@y12.doe.gov>s  H I tried the /dens=tz86 and /dens=tk86 and neither worked.  It requires aJ number for the BPI and will only accept certain values.  In the process ofE testing this, I have discovered what I believe is a bug in the backupoL command.  I thought that I could just have the user do his initialization onI the target system and not initialize on the TZ87 at all.  However, when Iy5 entered the command: Backup/Log/Interchange Login.ComyN Tape_Drive:Test.Bck/Save/Label=Trans, the backup command still initialized theF tape over to the TZ87 format.  I then reset the tape to TZ86 using theI override, removed the tape and re-inserted the tape.  I then repeated theeL above backup command adding explicitly the /NoRewind qualifier on the end ofK the command.  It still initialized the tape to the TZ87 format ignoring the L /NoRewind which is supposed to prohibit the initialization when specified onH the output file specification according to the on-line help.  I left theD original message quoted in case anyone wants the system information.  
 Dale A. Marcyy. Science Applications International Corporation   Paul Repacholi wrote:e > + > "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov> writes:o > O > > problem is that the system that is writing the tape is a VAXstation 4000-60iO > > running VMS V7.1 using a TZ87 drive, so when the tape is mounted on the VAX-O > > 4000-500A also running VMS V7.1, but using a TZ86 drive, it cannot read thenN > > TZ87 format.  I can and have each time forced the TZ87 to emulate the TZ86Q > > format, but I would like to automate this so that it does not need to be donecO > > each time.  The user is using a Backup/Rewind command to create the tape on R > > the writing node.  Is there a qualifier that can be used on the backup commandM > > to force the TZ87 to write at the TZ86 density?  I looked at the /DensityfR > > qualifier, but I thought it was for the old reel to reel tapes and if it would >  > init/dens=tz86...0 > back/dens=tz86...s > + > Or the 6Gb button on the front of the 87.g >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 60760 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Nov 2000 14:51:26 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>m6 Subject: Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ867 Message-ID: <rjqr94l4p01.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>p  ) "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov> writes:e  M > problem is that the system that is writing the tape is a VAXstation 4000-60hM > running VMS V7.1 using a TZ87 drive, so when the tape is mounted on the VAXoM > 4000-500A also running VMS V7.1, but using a TZ86 drive, it cannot read thehL > TZ87 format.  I can and have each time forced the TZ87 to emulate the TZ86O > format, but I would like to automate this so that it does not need to be done M > each time.  The user is using a Backup/Rewind command to create the tape oncP > the writing node.  Is there a qualifier that can be used on the backup commandK > to force the TZ87 to write at the TZ86 density?  I looked at the /Density P > qualifier, but I thought it was for the old reel to reel tapes and if it would   init/dens=tz86...e back/dens=tz86...h  ) Or the 6Gb button on the front of the 87.s   -- S< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.s@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:27:00 -0500r' From: "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov>t6 Subject: Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86+ Message-ID: <3A0B16A4.38770092@y12.doe.gov>   N      I did not try the /NoInit, but looking at the help files, it only appliesM to image backups which is not the case in this instance.  Upgrading is not aseN simple as it sounds.  This is a development system which must be maintained atL the same version as the production systems and requires approval of the userM organizations and involves developer testing after the upgrade.  In short, weeM only get to upgrade about once a year if that.  The tape was labeled as TRANSEN when it was initialized on the TZ86.  I believe the Override=Label only allows1 you to mount the tape without specifying a label.i  
 Dale A. Marcyh. Science Applications International Corporation   John Santos wrote: > E > In article <3A0B0054.86FFBFDB@y12.doe.gov>, dqm@y12.doe.gov says...lL > > I tried the /dens=tz86 and /dens=tk86 and neither worked.  It requires aN > > number for the BPI and will only accept certain values.  In the process ofI > > testing this, I have discovered what I believe is a bug in the backup.P > > command.  I thought that I could just have the user do his initialization onM > > the target system and not initialize on the TZ87 at all.  However, when Ia9 > > entered the command: Backup/Log/Interchange Login.ComrR > > Tape_Drive:Test.Bck/Save/Label=Trans, the backup command still initialized theJ > > tape over to the TZ87 format.  I then reset the tape to TZ86 using theM > > override, removed the tape and re-inserted the tape.  I then repeated the P > > above backup command adding explicitly the /NoRewind qualifier on the end ofO > > the command.  It still initialized the tape to the TZ87 format ignoring thezP > > /NoRewind which is supposed to prohibit the initialization when specified onL > > the output file specification according to the on-line help.  I left theH > > original message quoted in case anyone wants the system information. > K > The /density qualifiers require VMS V7.2 or later.  (At least, they don't I > show up in help init/density on my V7.1 VAX, but I know they do show up / > in help init on my V7.2-1 Alpha's at work...)1 > % > So, one solution may be to upgrade.  >  > Have you tried backup/noinit?  >  > How about /override=label? > H > Also, when the tape was initted on the TZ86, was the label "Trans".  IG > think if the label doesn't match, backup prompts whether to overwrite H > the tape (possibly re-initting it, I'm not sure), or to let you changeJ > the tape and try again (assuming you are tracking the tapes by label and% > accidently mounted the wrong tape.)r >  > > Paul Repacholi wrote:  > > > / > > > "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov> writes:. > > >pS > > > > problem is that the system that is writing the tape is a VAXstation 4000-60 S > > > > running VMS V7.1 using a TZ87 drive, so when the tape is mounted on the VAXtS > > > > 4000-500A also running VMS V7.1, but using a TZ86 drive, it cannot read thetR > > > > TZ87 format.  I can and have each time forced the TZ87 to emulate the TZ86U > > > > format, but I would like to automate this so that it does not need to be done S > > > > each time.  The user is using a Backup/Rewind command to create the tape on V > > > > the writing node.  Is there a qualifier that can be used on the backup commandQ > > > > to force the TZ87 to write at the TZ86 density?  I looked at the /DensitytV > > > > qualifier, but I thought it was for the old reel to reel tapes and if it would > > >  > > > init/dens=tz86...  > > > back/dens=tz86...s > > >r/ > > > Or the 6Gb button on the front of the 87.r > 5 > Hope this helps.  From a fellow tape sufferer.  ;-PV >  > --
 > John Santosh   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:54:55 GMTh+ From: John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net>r6 Subject: Re: Backup written on TZ87 to be read on TZ86> Message-ID: <MPG.1474d9268898cd2e989694@news.bellatlantic.net>  C In article <3A0B0054.86FFBFDB@y12.doe.gov>, dqm@y12.doe.gov says... J > I tried the /dens=tz86 and /dens=tk86 and neither worked.  It requires aL > number for the BPI and will only accept certain values.  In the process ofG > testing this, I have discovered what I believe is a bug in the backupeN > command.  I thought that I could just have the user do his initialization onK > the target system and not initialize on the TZ87 at all.  However, when Ie7 > entered the command: Backup/Log/Interchange Login.Com P > Tape_Drive:Test.Bck/Save/Label=Trans, the backup command still initialized theH > tape over to the TZ87 format.  I then reset the tape to TZ86 using theK > override, removed the tape and re-inserted the tape.  I then repeated theTN > above backup command adding explicitly the /NoRewind qualifier on the end ofM > the command.  It still initialized the tape to the TZ87 format ignoring theeN > /NoRewind which is supposed to prohibit the initialization when specified onJ > the output file specification according to the on-line help.  I left theF > original message quoted in case anyone wants the system information.  I The /density qualifiers require VMS V7.2 or later.  (At least, they don'tqG show up in help init/density on my V7.1 VAX, but I know they do show upe- in help init on my V7.2-1 Alpha's at work...)i  # So, one solution may be to upgrade.e   Have you tried backup/noinit?a   How about /override=label?  F Also, when the tape was initted on the TZ86, was the label "Trans".  IE think if the label doesn't match, backup prompts whether to overwrite G the tape (possibly re-initting it, I'm not sure), or to let you change pH the tape and try again (assuming you are tracking the tapes by label and# accidently mounted the wrong tape.)a   > Paul Repacholi wrote:5 > > - > > "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov> writes:a > > Q > > > problem is that the system that is writing the tape is a VAXstation 4000-603Q > > > running VMS V7.1 using a TZ87 drive, so when the tape is mounted on the VAX Q > > > 4000-500A also running VMS V7.1, but using a TZ86 drive, it cannot read therP > > > TZ87 format.  I can and have each time forced the TZ87 to emulate the TZ86S > > > format, but I would like to automate this so that it does not need to be doneeQ > > > each time.  The user is using a Backup/Rewind command to create the tape oneT > > > the writing node.  Is there a qualifier that can be used on the backup commandO > > > to force the TZ87 to write at the TZ86 density?  I looked at the /DensityeT > > > qualifier, but I thought it was for the old reel to reel tapes and if it would > >  > > init/dens=tz86...i > > back/dens=tz86...k > > - > > Or the 6Gb button on the front of the 87.    3 Hope this helps.  From a fellow tape sufferer.  ;-Pe   -- s John Santos    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 17:00:41 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)' Subject: Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirsu. Message-ID: <8uel7p$322$5@info.service.rug.nl>  F In article <3A0AC5AE.3FDE16E6@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de>, Wolfgang Angenendt( <angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de> writes:    > Hello, > D > I want to copy all files of an user from one disk to another with: > < > $ BACKUP DISK1:[USER...] DISK2:[USER...] /Owner=3DORIGINAL > F > This command changes the creation date of the subdirs to the current > date.oA > For all files in all directories, the original creation date isc > restored.-H > Is it possible to restore the original creation date for the director= > iese > too?   Andy Goldstein around here?-  B This is a real pain.  There are times when an /IMAGE backup isn't E possible, like moving things from a volume set to a single disk (and lE there are some other situations), but one essentially wants an EXACT nD copy.  I am always annoyed that when I go through this my directory 8 dates change.  Isn't there a way to do this with BACKUP?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:44:15 GMTa* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>' Subject: Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirsa) Message-ID: <8uenpb$4ks$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  . In article <8uel7p$322$5@info.service.rug.nl>,   helbig@astro.rug.nl wrote:H > In article <3A0AC5AE.3FDE16E6@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de>, Wolfgang Angenendt) > <angenendt@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de> writes:t > 
 > > Hello, > >sF > > I want to copy all files of an user from one disk to another with: > >n> > > $ BACKUP DISK1:[USER...] DISK2:[USER...] /Owner=3DORIGINAL > >oH > > This command changes the creation date of the subdirs to the current	 > > date.:C > > For all files in all directories, the original creation date isa
 > > restored.t@ > > Is it possible to restore the original creation date for the	 director=  > > ies  > > too? >i > Andy Goldstein around here?t >hC > This is a real pain.  There are times when an /IMAGE backup isn'toF > possible, like moving things from a volume set to a single disk (andF > there are some other situations), but one essentially wants an EXACTE > copy.  I am always annoyed that when I go through this my directory : > dates change.  Isn't there a way to do this with BACKUP? >i  4 Why is it a problem that the directory dates change?   --B Disclaimer: JMHO  Yes, delete the long junk from the addrs. below. Alan E. Feldman  &-)/ w: afeldman@gfigroup.BorisYeltsinCooksCajun.comp5 h: alan48@dellnet.YouCantBelieveEverythingYouRead.coma    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.g   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 19:14:26 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)' Subject: Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirst. Message-ID: <8uet2i$6ve$1@info.service.rug.nl>  9 In article <8uenpb$4ks$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan E. Feldman  <alan48@my-deja.com> writes:    6 > Why is it a problem that the directory dates change?  9 DIR [.IMPORTANT_PROJECTS...]*.DIR/SIN=<some crucial date>h  G Perhaps when I start a project, I create a directory for it.  Probably,dH I put some files in it soon after, but due to PURGE only much newer onesB might be around.  Thus, the only way to keep track is by DIRECTORYE dates.  This also leads to /CREATED dates for directories being more OI recent than the oldest (or even all) files in them.  I understand why it eI happens, and there is a sort of logic to it, but as I said sometimes one eI wants an EXACT copy but /IMAGE is not an option.  At the least, it would ?? be OK if BACKUP could preserve the dates even if COPY couldn't.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 NOV 2000 18:16:01 GMTo4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)' Subject: Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirse5 Message-ID: <9NOV00.18160122@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>e  B In a previous article, Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> wrote:  M ->>> Is it possible to restore the original creation date for the directoriesx	 ->>> too?  ->>>E ->> This is a real pain.  There are times when an /IMAGE backup isn'tgH ->> possible, like moving things from a volume set to a single disk (andH ->> there are some other situations), but one essentially wants an EXACTG ->> copy.  I am always annoyed that when I go through this my directorya< ->> dates change.  Isn't there a way to do this with BACKUP? ->  6 ->Why is it a problem that the directory dates change?  E Because then your incremental backup contains a copy of every file ineA the new directory tree. Even if the directory revision dates were B retained, that wouldn't be enough since backup won't propagate the' original backup dates to the new files.y  I This has irritated me for years. I have a DCL procedure that will restoreoH the backup and directory revision dates for newly copied directory trees (it uses the FILE utility).   H Yes, the current conservative behaviour should be the default. But thereG should be a qualifier to retain the dates so an EXACT copy can be made.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 03:49:23 GMTz* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>' Subject: Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirsa) Message-ID: <8ufr83$3j6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>u  . In article <8uet2i$6ve$1@info.service.rug.nl>,   helbig@astro.rug.nl wrote:; > In article <8uenpb$4ks$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan E. Feldmanc > <alan48@my-deja.com> writes: >u8 > > Why is it a problem that the directory dates change? >c; > DIR [.IMPORTANT_PROJECTS...]*.DIR/SIN=<some crucial date>n >r> > Perhaps when I start a project, I create a directory for it.	 Probably,uE > I put some files in it soon after, but due to PURGE only much newer  onesD > might be around.  Thus, the only way to keep track is by DIRECTORY > dates.  F You can jot the dates down in a notebook or type them into a database,E if it's that important. Also, you may not be able to trust the dates.tE Perhaps the boss came by with an urgent 4-week project just after youtE created the directory and that directory sat empty for those 4 weeks.b  = >This also leads to /CREATED dates for directories being morejG > recent than the oldest (or even all) files in them.  I understand whyt it  C Old files can be copied to new directories in many other cases. I'doD consider that quite normal. You can create a new directory. Then youE need a .com file from somewhere else, so you rename or copy it to thee new directory. Normal.  F > happens, and there is a sort of logic to it, but as I said sometimes oneeD > wants an EXACT copy but /IMAGE is not an option.  At the least, it would A > be OK if BACKUP could preserve the dates even if COPY couldn't.m >i  E That might be a nice option, but the primary purpose of VMS BACKUP iswE to protect data, and such options probably don't get very high on theeC priority list. It's getting late, but I will venture to say at thissA point that preserving the creation dates of .dir files would onlyiE affect BACKUP/CREATED/SINC=... operations, which is not the right wayy( to do normal incremental backups anyway.  ? I myself would like to see another date-related feature, a data C modification date, which would tell you when the last update to the = contents of the file was. BACKUP would still need the regular G modification dates to work properly. Ah, but the operating system can'tr keep track of everything.    Thanks for your response.    --B Disclaimer: JMHO   Yes, remove the longest parts of the addresses. Alan E. Feldman  &-)/ w: afeldman@gfigroup.BorisYeltsinCooksCajun.com 5 h: alan48@dellnet.YouCantBelieveEverythingYouRead.comd      & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.Z   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 05:13:43 GMTa* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>' Subject: Re: Backup: Restore of SubDirsn) Message-ID: <8ug065$77p$1@nnrp1.deja.com>f  5 In article <9NOV00.18160122@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, 7   karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote: D > In a previous article, Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> wrote: > C > ->>> Is it possible to restore the original creation date for thel directories- > ->>> too?- > ->>-G > ->> This is a real pain.  There are times when an /IMAGE backup isn'trE > ->> possible, like moving things from a volume set to a single diskd (andD > ->> there are some other situations), but one essentially wants an EXACTy? > ->> copy.  I am always annoyed that when I go through this my 	 directoryt> > ->> dates change.  Isn't there a way to do this with BACKUP? > ->8 > ->Why is it a problem that the directory dates change? >rG > Because then your incremental backup contains a copy of every file inaC > the new directory tree. Even if the directory revision dates wereo    E Don't you want your files backed up? If you *move* them from one disk C to another, and don't get them backed up on your incrementals, yourhE data is vulnerable to a disk crash until the next full backup. If youoD just *copy* them, well, that's different. You can tell BACKUP to useF the old incremental behavior to avoid this problem. How to do that hasF been posted here before and may even be in the FAQ. I think the newestC BACKUP has [a]n /[NO]INCREMENTAL qualifier (not sure if their is anRF optional NO to this qualifier) to do this. There may also be a logical> name you can set instead. And there is the dummy backup/recordF workaround if you don't have either of the first two. The dummy backupD method has the advantage that you can use it on only the new tree ifE you desire, and still have the new BACKUP behavior apply to the otherj files.    D > retained, that wouldn't be enough since backup won't propagate the) > original backup dates to the new files.o     You can do this, sort of:i  9 $  BACKUP/RECORD DISK1:[USER...] DISK2:[USER...]/OWN=ORIGi  B The /RECORD qualifier will put the start time of the backup in theF backup date fields of all the files on both disks! You can then followD this with a dummy BACKUP/RECORD of the .DIR files in the tree on theB target disk (because the backup dates for these .DIR files will beE older than the creation and revision dates), and then your entire newRD tree won't be backed up by /SINCE=BACKUP, but I think it'll still beG backed up by /SINCE=<user-supplied-date>. (Actually, I'm not sure abouteF that (/SINCE=<user-supplied-date>) for newer versions of backup (6.2+)E and it's getting late. My BACKUP patch release notes from my last job.B say that BACKUP now detects if the .dir modifcation dates are moreD recent than the backup dates, so perhaps the dummy backup trick alsoG works for /SINCE=<user-supplied-date>, even when the modification datestF are more recent than <user-supplied-date>. I've never checked that.) IG do think that any non-.dir files will be backed up if their modi-date >oF user-supplied-date, regardless, which I think you would want. But thisB would only happen if you modified any of the files in the new treeG after you copied it over. And if you modified any of them, I assume yout want them backed up.  E Keeping the new directory tree from being backed up should be okay if-G you keep the original disk copy, but it will complicate recovery from a G disk crash if any incremental backups have been done since the copy andi7 before the next image backup. (OK, not by much, maybe.)    >NC > This has irritated me for years. I have a DCL procedure that wille restore D > the backup and directory revision dates for newly copied directory trees  > (it uses the FILE utility).  >oD > Yes, the current conservative behaviour should be the default. But there7C > should be a qualifier to retain the dates so an EXACT copy can beo made.. >A  F Well, maybe so, but they may not have time for it. BACKUP has had someE interesting bugs over the years that had to be fixed, which of coursed? got priority. And I think DEC/Q/whatever would rather have manyhG complaints about directory dates than a few about lost data. Not losingfC or corrupting data is an extremely high priority in VMS, is it not?   - OTOH, I did ask, so thanks for your response.t   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)/ w: afeldman@gfigroup.BorisYeltsinCooksCajun.com 5 h: alan48@dellnet.YouCantBelieveEverythingYouRead.comc    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 09:05:55 -0500t9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)u Subject: Re: BLISS and $GETSYI+ Message-ID: <c3mTyk0hTeeR@eisner.decus.org>   L In article <8trrj4$1eg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, ROBERT.MURPHY@RB.CWPLC.COM writes:  D >   %ERRORMACRO:  initialization data exceeds allocation of SYI_LISTD >   Error occurred expanding macro $$ITM_INITIATE, called from macro > $ITMLST_INIT,  >  called from source  > F > SYI_LIST is the name of my item list, and I am initialising it usingB > $ITMLIST_INIT, the return buffer is declared as VECTOR [2, LONG,E > UNSIGNED] which, according to the BLISS documentation is correct to $ > return a 64bit absolute timestamp. > F > I have not had a problem calling other item codes, its just this one > which is giving me aggro.   C The message is about allocation of SYI_LIST, not the thing to whichhA you point.  It is typical when you try to stuff N+1 items into an  N item list.  C Are you certain you have a problem if you _substitute_ the new item2* code (rather than append it to the list) ?  G > Anyone out there got any thoughts, or example code they could send mes > to compare with ?8  J I would suggest rather that you post the allocation and the initialization* of your code which encounters the failure.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2000 16:58:03 GMTu* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)( Subject: Re: Boot disk size for 4000 M60. Message-ID: <8tuqqr$li7$3@info.service.rug.nl>  H In article <5.0.0.25.2.20001103085128.00ae9d50@pop.clsp.uswest.net>, Dan$ O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:   K > Does the VAXstation 4000 Model 60 have the same size limitation on it for:J > a boot disk that the older VS3100 and MV3100 systems had?  Specifically,: > can I put a 1gb (or 2gb or 4gb) in it for a boot device?  G I'm pretty sure that the 1.07 GB or whatever limit only applies to the  < 3100, though otherwise the 3100 and 4000 are rather similar.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:30:48 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)( Subject: Re: Boot disk size for 4000 M60L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0311001230480001@user-2ive6bu.dialup.mindspring.com>  k In article <5.0.0.25.2.20001103085128.00ae9d50@pop.clsp.uswest.net>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote:t  K > Does the VAXstation 4000 Model 60 have the same size limitation on it forAJ > a boot disk that the older VS3100 and MV3100 systems had?  Specifically,: > can I put a 1gb (or 2gb or 4gb) in it for a boot device?  B We have a 2 GB 3rd-party disk in ours.  It works fine.  I've never$ heard of a restriction on the 4000s.   -- l Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 21:32:37 +0000e+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>t( Subject: Re: Boot disk size for 4000 M60' Message-ID: <3A032EF5.8AC41B23@iee.org>u   Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > K > Does the VAXstation 4000 Model 60 have the same size limitation on it for J > a boot disk that the older VS3100 and MV3100 systems had?  Specifically,: > can I put a 1gb (or 2gb or 4gb) in it for a boot device?  < There is no such restriction on the VAXstation 4000 series. 9 The older SCSI commands are only issued by the VAXstationV9 3100 series and the MicroVAX 3100 10/20 (for which no fix75 was available) and the MicroVAX 3100 10e/20e (shippedm' before something like April 1992 IIRC).   % The OpenVMS FAQ has the gory details.   5 My VAXstation 4000-90 happily boots from an RZ29B anda1 I've had a VAXstation 4000-60 boot with no issuesh
 from an RZ28.    Antonio    -- e   ---------------o- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgo   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:10:01 +0000t From: kbrown780@isd.net ( Subject: Re: Boot disk size for 4000 M60' Message-ID: <3A040AA9.953F26EE@isd.net>=   Dan O'Reilly wrote:t > K > Does the VAXstation 4000 Model 60 have the same size limitation on it forsJ > a boot disk that the older VS3100 and MV3100 systems had?  Specifically,: > can I put a 1gb (or 2gb or 4gb) in it for a boot device? >  > ------K > +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+iK > | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |gK > | Principal Engineer            |  "Those are my principles. If you     | K > | Process Software              |   don't like them I have others."     |1K > | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |cK > +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+d   Hi Dan,   E I have run a 4000 model 60 with a 4GB RZ29 boot disk. Not sure if you  can go larger that that though.e   Keith Browne kbrown780@isd.netG   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 05:52:57 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: Broken TK50' Message-ID: <G3L9oA.5CM@spcuna.spc.edu>o  " John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:A > When I power up the VAX, the Red button light comes on, and the > > handle won't lift.  It doesn't matter if the button is in or@ > out when the power is applied.  After a while (maybe after the> > Qbus gets inited), the gear wheel that engages the bottom ofE > the supply reel starts spinning, and the red light starts flashing.n< > I think it may think there is a tape in the drive and it's5 > trying to rewind or unload it.  Flakey microswitch?E  F   The most common problem with these is the leader latch (the piece ofE plastic attached to the takeup real, with a "hammerhead" on the end).sF It should be attached to the takeup reel at one end, and hooked on the' spring-loaded plastic arm on the other.   C   If you can't figure it out, take the top cover off the TK50 drivecF and insert a scratch tape most-of-the-way in. You'll see the door openF and a V-shaped hoop on the end of the tape. The "hammerhead" should be positioned to enter the V-hoop.t  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAa   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 01:42:51 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Broken TK50L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0611000142520001@user-2ive67c.dialup.mindspring.com>  P In article <1001105202613.2093D@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:    > > Red light flashing.  Cycling the button, power cycling, etc.; > didn't seem to do anything.  Eventually, I dismantled thed@ > drive and discovered about 75% of the tape was on the internal? > take-up reel.  Foolishly, I spun the tape the rest of the wayj@ > onto the reel, and discovered it wasn't fastened at all to the& > supply reel (inside the cartridge.)    :-)   C That's a nasty shock the first time it happens, isn't it?  The tapeeF isn't attached to the reel, and there's no optical marker or hole thatB tells the drive the end is near.  I guess the firmware just counts inches.e  , > Amazingly, the cartridge seems to be okay!@ > I was able to mount it on our VAX at work (TK70), and read all@ > 3 savesets.  (I did a backup/list on them, which I think needs > to read all the tape blocks.)f  ? Do you have Save Set Manager?  The first thing you should do is & copy those old tapes onto newer media.     > So, is it toast?  F Don't know.  The only think I know how to fix in a sick TK50/70/DLT is) the plastic leader on the take-up reel.  h  H Maybe the controller is sick, and not the drive.  Can you borrow another one to test with?s  E Weren't there diagnostic programs for microvaxes long ago?  I've seentB a tape called "customer diagnostics", but according to rumor thereC was a field service version that was more complete.  Dunno if these ; diagnostics included anything for TK50s, but it's possible.u   -- R Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com9   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 18:36:38 GMT.+ From: John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net>I Subject: Re: Broken TK50> Message-ID: <MPG.1470c43844f5f47398968d@news.bellatlantic.net>  B In article <G3L9oA.5CM@spcuna.spc.edu>, terry@gate.tmk.com says...$ > John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:C > > When I power up the VAX, the Red button light comes on, and thea@ > > handle won't lift.  It doesn't matter if the button is in orB > > out when the power is applied.  After a while (maybe after the@ > > Qbus gets inited), the gear wheel that engages the bottom ofG > > the supply reel starts spinning, and the red light starts flashing. > > > I think it may think there is a tape in the drive and it's7 > > trying to rewind or unload it.  Flakey microswitch?h > H >   The most common problem with these is the leader latch (the piece ofG > plastic attached to the takeup real, with a "hammerhead" on the end).dH > It should be attached to the takeup reel at one end, and hooked on the) > spring-loaded plastic arm on the other.t > E >   If you can't figure it out, take the top cover off the TK50 driveBH > and insert a scratch tape most-of-the-way in. You'll see the door openH > and a V-shaped hoop on the end of the tape. The "hammerhead" should be! > positioned to enter the V-hoop.a > 6 >         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com7 >         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA<  H The leader came out of the hammerhead when I was manually unspooling theH tape, but I think I got it back in place okay.  I will look at it again, though.    --   John Santosr   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:13:25 GMT) From: Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com>h Subject: Re: Broken TK50+ Message-ID: <3A072D05.8D138C4B@hotmail.com>   H If you're going to clean the heads with alcohol, be sure to use at leastH 91% alcohol.  The epoxy that holds the heads in place are water soluableI and the heads will eventually  "float" if you do not use the best you cansB get.  We (Dec field service) always used TEX Pads or TEX Wands.  IH beleive that some of the other boys had a TK50 cleaning kit, but I neverG used it.  I think the customers had a cleaning tape, but don't quote mes on that.  B But, never clean any rubber rollers with alcohl, only use soap andF water.  The alcohl is absorbed and the rubber eventually devolves to a slick plastic coating.   -jackc   "Douglas S. Meade" wrote:'   > John,r >a> > I've had a lot of frustrations with TK50's eating tapes, but> > my experience has been like yours -- if you are patient, you> > can generally extract the tape, and still use it again.  You= > probably have already read this elsewhere, but the two most ; > common causes of failure are bent leaders, or dirty LEDs.O> > The leaders are about $2 ea. from 1-800-DIGITAL, and a while< > back I bought about 10, and managed to get 3 'dead' drives= > working.  I've tended to be very careful about cleaning theg: > heads with anything but a damp (damp with water!) cloth.: > I ruined a TK70 by cleaning the heads with alcohol.  The8 > rest of the drive was fine, but now it's a dead drive.8 > The other cardinal rule of working with TK50s is: make8 > sure you push the tape in *firmly*.  I've had a couple7 > get stuck because I was lazy about shutting the drivei > door firmly enough.l >o: > The failure to show up on SHOW DEV I have only seen when@ > there is something amiss with the cable between the controller: > and the drive.  Do you have a spare cable you could try?9 > Or perhaps when you removed the drive you didn't get it & > back on correctly ("this side up"?). > ; > I agree with you, that $45 is too much to pay.  I'd offere. > $25 plus shipping for a drive known to work. >e > Doug Meade >a( > On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, John Santos wrote: >j > >/D > > I was attempting to upgrade my hobbyist VAX at home to VMS V7.2,A > > and after reading in the 1st TK50, it got stuck in the middle @ > > of the rewind.  Install was prompting for the 2nd tape to be > > mounted. > > @ > > Red light flashing.  Cycling the button, power cycling, etc.= > > didn't seem to do anything.  Eventually, I dismantled theuB > > drive and discovered about 75% of the tape was on the internalA > > take-up reel.  Foolishly, I spun the tape the rest of the waytB > > onto the reel, and discovered it wasn't fastened at all to theB > > supply reel (inside the cartridge.)  Some how, pushing buttonsA > > and levers, I managed to get the empty cartridge out (figuredoA > > it was trashed at this point...), disassembled the cartridge, A > > rewound the tape onto the supply reel, re-assembled the drive > > > and cartridge.  Amazingly, the cartridge seems to be okay!B > > I was able to mount it on our VAX at work (TK70), and read allB > > 3 savesets.  (I did a backup/list on them, which I think needs! > > to read all the tape blocks.)i > > C > > The drive is still acting funny.  Console >>> SHOW DEV sees theuA > > controller but not the drive.  It pauses about a minute aftermD > > printing the "UQSSP Tape Drive (775400)" line, but doesn't printC > > "MUA0:" on the next line like it should.  Also, VMS doesn't seet > > the drive. > > C > > When I power up the VAX, the Red button light comes on, and them@ > > handle won't lift.  It doesn't matter if the button is in orB > > out when the power is applied.  After a while (maybe after the@ > > Qbus gets inited), the gear wheel that engages the bottom ofG > > the supply reel starts spinning, and the red light starts flashing.s> > > I think it may think there is a tape in the drive and it's7 > > trying to rewind or unload it.  Flakey microswitch?e > > ? > > I can't find much about TK50's on the net, but one web pagee> > > suggested that the heads might be dirty, but cleaning them= > > should be done very carefully since isopropyl alcohol can ? > > disolve some glue and make them fall apart!  (It was filthys> > > inside when I disassembled it.  I blew a lot of canned air6 > > through it and think I have got all the dust out.) > >e > > So, is it toast? > > < > > (I see someone is selling a TK50, untested and as-is, on: > > Ebay.  They want $45 plus $18 shipping, but didn't get; > > any bids on it last week, so maybe $45 is too steep forf0 > > one of these, especially with no guarantee.) > >s > > -- > > John Santose  > > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > > 781-861-0670 ext 539 > >t > >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:04:58 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Broken TK50L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0711000104580001@user-2ivecb8.dialup.mindspring.com>  k In article <MPG.1470c707f7ca221798968e@news.bellatlantic.net>, John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net> wrote:u    K > Actually, there was a small hole in the middle of the tape about 2-3 feetaF > from the end.  I didn't notice this until I was rewinding it.  ThereI > are also a pair of what appear to be optical sensors mounted just after F > the tape head.  I suppose light getting into the drive could trigger@ > this sensor, but I wasn't trying to run it with the cover off.  H The one tape I ran off the end didn't have a hole.  I was expecting one,' and I looked.  Maybe it was a bad tape.e      F > Good point.  I don't have saveset manager, and it doesn't seem to beH > included in the hobbyist PAKs.  Not sure if it is in CSA, which I have  > at work, but I don't think so.  G You're right.  I thought it was in the hobbyist kit, but it's not.  :-(     L > Actually, I have two different versions of diagnostics (at work), but I'm K > not sure if they are just two different revs of customer diagnostics, or rK > if one is customer and one is field service.  However, both are on TK50, a > so I can't boot them!l   I was afraid you'd say that...   -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:07:24 -0500a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Broken TK50L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0711000107240001@user-2ivecb8.dialup.mindspring.com>  V In article <3A072D05.8D138C4B@hotmail.com>, Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com> wrote:  J > If you're going to clean the heads with alcohol, be sure to use at leastJ > 91% alcohol.  The epoxy that holds the heads in place are water soluableK > and the heads will eventually  "float" if you do not use the best you cangD > get.  We (Dec field service) always used TEX Pads or TEX Wands.  IJ > beleive that some of the other boys had a TK50 cleaning kit, but I neverI > used it.  I think the customers had a cleaning tape, but don't quote meI
 > on that.  G I rescued a TK50 cleaning kit from the dumpster.  It has some swabs and1F a bottle of some sort of freon.  It's a good bottle.  The stuff hasn't/ leaked out or evaporated after all these years.I  ( I've never seen a cleaning tape for TKs.   -- T Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coml   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 00:26:19 GMT) From: Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com>r Subject: Re: Broken TK50+ Message-ID: <3A089DAB.9458E304@hotmail.com>i  / There's a TK50 on Ebay (no bids yet) for 19.00.u  @ http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=491396935   John Santos wrote:  B > I was attempting to upgrade my hobbyist VAX at home to VMS V7.2,? > and after reading in the 1st TK50, it got stuck in the middlei> > of the rewind.  Install was prompting for the 2nd tape to be
 > mounted. >t> > Red light flashing.  Cycling the button, power cycling, etc.; > didn't seem to do anything.  Eventually, I dismantled thet@ > drive and discovered about 75% of the tape was on the internal? > take-up reel.  Foolishly, I spun the tape the rest of the way @ > onto the reel, and discovered it wasn't fastened at all to the@ > supply reel (inside the cartridge.)  Some how, pushing buttons? > and levers, I managed to get the empty cartridge out (figuredk? > it was trashed at this point...), disassembled the cartridge,>? > rewound the tape onto the supply reel, re-assembled the drivet< > and cartridge.  Amazingly, the cartridge seems to be okay!@ > I was able to mount it on our VAX at work (TK70), and read all@ > 3 savesets.  (I did a backup/list on them, which I think needs > to read all the tape blocks.)  > A > The drive is still acting funny.  Console >>> SHOW DEV sees theB? > controller but not the drive.  It pauses about a minute aftertB > printing the "UQSSP Tape Drive (775400)" line, but doesn't printA > "MUA0:" on the next line like it should.  Also, VMS doesn't sees > the drive. > A > When I power up the VAX, the Red button light comes on, and ther> > handle won't lift.  It doesn't matter if the button is in or@ > out when the power is applied.  After a while (maybe after the> > Qbus gets inited), the gear wheel that engages the bottom ofE > the supply reel starts spinning, and the red light starts flashing.d< > I think it may think there is a tape in the drive and it's5 > trying to rewind or unload it.  Flakey microswitch?d >c= > I can't find much about TK50's on the net, but one web page'< > suggested that the heads might be dirty, but cleaning them; > should be done very carefully since isopropyl alcohol can-= > disolve some glue and make them fall apart!  (It was filthyt< > inside when I disassembled it.  I blew a lot of canned air4 > through it and think I have got all the dust out.) >  > So, is it toast? > : > (I see someone is selling a TK50, untested and as-is, on8 > Ebay.  They want $45 plus $18 shipping, but didn't get9 > any bids on it last week, so maybe $45 is too steep foro. > one of these, especially with no guarantee.) >n > --
 > John Santos  > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:15:44 GMT + From: John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net>c Subject: Re: Broken TK50> Message-ID: <MPG.1474de0592a4f025989695@news.bellatlantic.net>   I think I got it working again!t  " Thanks to everyone who helped out.  ? It looks like the amber LED in the tachometer had fallen out of 	 its slot.n  ? Assuming the tach is the black plastic object under the capstana? on the take-up side of the head, it is connected to the circuit < board by a brown flat translucent plastic cable with several= wires "printed" on it.  (I don't know what this technology isi? called.  It looks like a variant of printed circuit technology,M> but uses a thin flexible plastic base instead of a thick rigid	 plastic.)d  = One end of the cable runs into the tach.  The other end has agA push-on 4-pin connector attached to the PC board.  In the middle,-? there is a resistor and an amber LED.  The LED looks like it isiE meant to push into a hole in the base of the tach, but it was hanging > loose.  I pushed it back into place, and the drive seems to be working again.  @ I'm not sure if this was the original problem or if I knocked it0 out while trying to fix the original stuck tape.   --   John Santos-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:51:19 -0500-2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Broken TK50L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0911001751190001@user-2ive69p.dialup.mindspring.com>  k In article <MPG.1474de0592a4f025989695@news.bellatlantic.net>, John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net> wrote:n  ! > I think I got it working again!: > $ > Thanks to everyone who helped out. > A > It looks like the amber LED in the tachometer had fallen out ofh > its slot.d > A > Assuming the tach is the black plastic object under the capstaneA > on the take-up side of the head, it is connected to the circuit > > board by a brown flat translucent plastic cable with several > wires "printed" on it.     Yes, that's the tach.n  ' > (I don't know what this technology is A > called.  It looks like a variant of printed circuit technology,g@ > but uses a thin flexible plastic base instead of a thick rigid > plastic.)h  I I think it's called a "flexible printed circuit board".  Look through the,F glass top of a copy machine, and you'll see something similar attachedJ to the moving head.  I don't know why they used it in the TK50s instead ofK plain wires.  The may be a little voodoo in that circuit; way over my head.   ? > One end of the cable runs into the tach.  The other end has a C > push-on 4-pin connector attached to the PC board.  In the middle,eA > there is a resistor and an amber LED.  The LED looks like it is G > meant to push into a hole in the base of the tach, but it was hanging @ > loose.  I pushed it back into place, and the drive seems to be > working again.  L Yes.  The LED pushes into one hole, and the photodiode pushes into the otherJ (the one at the top of the tach assembly).  I actually don't know which isI which, since the only one I've taken apart didn't have power at the time.r6 Could you see light from the LED, or was it invisible?  J The photodiode "looks" at the LED through the spinning "screen" inside theF tach (attached to the shaft), so it alternately sees light and dark as the shaft turns.  yB > I'm not sure if this was the original problem or if I knocked it2 > out while trying to fix the original stuck tape.  K Likely the original problem.  With a bad tach, the drive would have no ideaeM whether the tape loaded successfully, or how much tape it had wound.  I thinkrK it just gives up at some point.  If it tried to rewind and unload, it would H risk breaking the tape.  So it refuses to power the little solenoid that5 unlocks the door latch, and lets a human sort it out.l   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comI   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:49:37 -0600* From: "Mark-Simon Pope" <mpope@bristol.ca> Subject: Can't hang up modem. Message-ID: <DdDO5.381$Ym.11196@news1.mts.net>  G Alpha VMS 7.2-1, Modem connected via old Decserver 200.  I connect to arL particular resource using SET HOST /DTE.  When I done, and I exit via Ctrl/\L the modem does not hang up.  Unfortunately, the system on the other end doesL not have a disconnect option or key-code.  The only way to free the modem is to switch it off.m  ; Can I force my modem to hang up and become available again?D   Mark-S. Pope   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 22:46:20 GMTR& From: brown@taiga.gmcl.com (Rob Brown)  Subject: Re: Can't hang up modem. Message-ID: <8uf9fs$i1m$1@dagger.ab.videon.ca>  ) Mark-Simon Pope (mpope@bristol.ca) wrote: I : Alpha VMS 7.2-1, Modem connected via old Decserver 200.  I connect to aaN : particular resource using SET HOST /DTE.  When I done, and I exit via Ctrl/\N : the modem does not hang up.  Unfortunately, the system on the other end doesN : not have a disconnect option or key-code.  The only way to free the modem is : to switch it off.   = : Can I force my modem to hang up and become available again?    A couple of ideas:  I 1.  Does this modem use the AT type command set?  With those, you usually,H     can type +++ to get into command mode and then type ATH0 to hang up.G 2.  Do you need to do more setup in the terminal server, like maybe SETcI     PORT MODEM ENABLED, so that it knows to tell the modem something when(F     you disconnect?  If you use SET HOST/DTE, does the terminal serverJ     know that you have disconnected?  Should you create a modem service on6     the terminal server and then SET HOST/LAT instead?H 3.  Use KERMIT.  It has a HANGUP command.  (Of course, then KERMIT needsH     to know what kind of modem you have and what its command set is, butH     it comes with a fairly complete set.)  And you still need to set the!     terminal server up correctly.p  	 Have fun.    - Rob      -- --  / Rob Brown                        brown@gmcl.com 6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-2101 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)1                                  http://gmcl.com/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:01:43 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>T  Subject: Re: Can't hang up modem, Message-ID: <3A0B1EBF.AF31491B@videotron.ca>   Mark-Simon Pope wrote:I > Alpha VMS 7.2-1, Modem connected via old Decserver 200.  I connect to as* > particular resource using SET HOST /DTE.    N Set host/DTE is very innefficient via a decserver. You may wish to look at SETK HOST/LAT to connect to the modem (you can define a service on the decserverX that points to the modem port).h  M Now, for your problem. You need to setup the decserver port to have the modem K sgnals enabled. Can't remember the commands off-hand, but there is probablyrG also a comand that will hangup the modem upon disconnection. (drop DTR)o  L Furthermore, you will need to configure the modem itself to hangup upon lossL of DTR. Few modems have that configured as default becayse they are expectedK to work on PCs. )Check AT&C and AT&D which are *usually* the ones for this.   M I have seen large organisations, including Canada's DATAPAC network when theyaL introduced 2400 baud modems misconfigure them (or forget to set the modem to6 process DTR and DCD instead of forcing these to "ON").   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:47:59 +01005 From: "philippe bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr>  Subject: Re: Cluster Problem$ Message-ID: <3a0814e9@news.euriware>  +     cluster number : mc sysman conf sho clul     cluster password : nonee  I     you can also Copy sys$system:cluster_authorize.dat on both sys$systemsG (it contains both password & group) but in both case you need to reboot @ "Paddy" <c.padmanaban@digital.com> a crit dans le message news: 8u91bn$uer@usenet.pa.dec.com...t > Hello, >i8 > I have a cluster, made of vms 7.2(alpha) and 7.2(VAX).L > Is there any way to find out the cluster group number and password of this
 > cluster. >l > Thanks in Advance  > Paddyv >  >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:15:17 -0500g' From: "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov>p Subject: Re: Cluster Problem+ Message-ID: <3A0B13E5.B3160D95@y12.doe.gov>2  K Also, a device specifically set unavailable with the SET DEVICE/NOAVAILABLEo dev.  
 Dale A. Marcyt. Science Applications International Corporation   CSABA HARANGOZO wrote: > . > Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> wrote:/ > > helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) wrote:tE > >> In article <8NOV00.15382223@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwoodi# > >> <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> writes:w > >>3 > >> >  $ if .not. f$getdvi(dev,"exists") then exitl > >> > >> Why not > >>L > >> $    if .not. f$getdvi(dev,"exists") .or. f$getdvi(dev,"mnt") then exit > >>E > >> in case it has already been mounted (e.g. in SYPAGSWPFILES.COM)?d > >>> > >> What is the difference between f$getdvi(dev,"exists") and5 > >> f$getdvi(dev,"avl")?  Which should be used here?s > G > > I'll have to admit that I'm not really sure what causes a device tohJ > > fail the "avl" test.  I couldn't find any devices which exist but failG > > "avl" on the systems I tried.  I did find that if a host leaves ther > G >         A device mounted privately, maybe ? It exists, but may not be)? >         available. Tape drives in use could be good examples.i( >         I haven't checked this though.7 >                                                 Csabao > K > > cluster its disks still exist and are "avl" even though the host itselfa > > is down. >  >         [...snip...] >  > > Dave > > --------------= > > Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVML > > Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself > K >    ----------------------------------------------------------------------tG >    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehogtG >    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush. K >    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- = >    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:    ------------------------------    Date: 05 Nov 2000 19:05:14 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> ! Subject: Re: Compaq's brand imageb7 Message-ID: <rjqd7gad6hh.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>u  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:g  P > But when it bought Digital, the only assets of worth was the service division,K > and that is something Compaq had wanted for itself. All the rest had beenoP > labeled "dying, legacy, not worth keeping". So to Compaq, was there really any, > reason to keep that "Digital" brand name ? > J > Perhaps Compaq should have move all the Digital stuff (VMS, UNIX) to the > Tandem brand name ?   F I think a better example would be Rayeothon. Whan a Cessna? Hate them,. want a Beechcraft? Well R[CB] is you friend...  C Tandem and DEC/Digital have a huge plus. People know what they ARE.0A They may hate them for some reason ( as well as Compaq ) but they  know what it means.R  I Perhaps the answer is to re-brand the PCs, and have 3 `compaq companies'.m  . A Non-Stop Prolient is just too sad for words.   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.d@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 22:25:11 +0600e) From: Denis Shadrin <shadrin@novosoft.ru>i( Subject: compatible OpenVMS 6.2 -> 7.2-1+ Message-ID: <3A043867.AC626CE8@novosoft.ru>h   Hi all!I  D Does anybody know, is "Compaq OpenVMS V7.2-1" binary compatible withn "OpenVMS-6.2", another words will my C library, which was built under "OpenVMS-6.2", work on "OpenVMS V7.2-1".  " Please, mailto:shadrin@novosoft.ru   -- i With best regardsa
 Denis Shadrinb   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:24:02 +0000, From: kbrown780@isd.net , Subject: Re: compatible OpenVMS 6.2 -> 7.2-1' Message-ID: <3A040DF2.E6DAEE2F@isd.net>e   Denis Shadrin wrote: > 	 > Hi all!  > F > Does anybody know, is "Compaq OpenVMS V7.2-1" binary compatible withp > "OpenVMS-6.2", another words will my C library, which was built under "OpenVMS-6.2", work on "OpenVMS V7.2-1". > $ > Please, mailto:shadrin@novosoft.ru >  > -- > With best regardsu > Denis Shadrin:  	 Hi Denis,   F Typically the answer is yes.  Code compiled on a previous version willH run on a later version.  That said, I have been bitten when trying to doG the same with C. Maybe one of the C programmers that frequent this newse9 group can give you a more accurate answer than I however.a   Keith Brown, kbrown780@isd.netl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 15:36:21 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>, Subject: Re: compatible OpenVMS 6.2 -> 7.2-1> Message-ID: <p31N5.3467$_h3.31445@e420r-sjo3.usenetserver.com>  6 "Denis Shadrin" <shadrin@novosoft.ru> wrote in message% news:3A043867.AC626CE8@novosoft.ru... F > Does anybody know, is "Compaq OpenVMS V7.2-1" binary compatible withG > "OpenVMS-6.2", another words will my C library, which was built under ( "OpenVMS-6.2", work on "OpenVMS V7.2-1". >tG Usually there isn't a problem.  I distribute binaries to customers with H everything from AXP VMS 6.1 to 7.2-1.  The main problem you can run intoD are runtime library version mismatches.  I link to a 6.1 RTL just to avoid the problems.G    Jack Peacocks   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 01:05:42 +0100A( From: Bernd Eckstein <B.Eckstein@cli.de>, Subject: Re: compatible OpenVMS 6.2 -> 7.2-1& Message-ID: <3A04A456.3EB97C64@cli.de>   Denis Shadrin wrote: > 	 > Hi all!  > F > Does anybody know, is "Compaq OpenVMS V7.2-1" binary compatible withp > "OpenVMS-6.2", another words will my C library, which was built under "OpenVMS-6.2", work on "OpenVMS V7.2-1". > = I had no Problems getting some GNU-stuff built on VAX-VMS 6.2,/ to work on VMS 7.2. I just copied the binaries.g   -- t( Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regardsC B.Eckstein, CLI GmbH - mailto:B.Eckstein@cli.de - http://www.cli.deoC Matthiashofstr. 28, D-52064 Aachen - Fon: +49 241 47051-0, Fax: -89s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:24:28 +1100/ From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> % Subject: Re: Curious printing problem(3 Message-ID: <AmkO5.18243$SF5.420791@ozemail.com.au>m  K <abirkett@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8ubtf5$og9$1@nnrp1.deja.com...  > Hi,  >n > VMS 7.1-2  > UCX 4.2 eco 4r >dJ > We are trying to send a postscript job to a Canon printer over IP and itH > doesn't work. Setup as below. (names changed to protect the innocent). > H > Printer queue PRINTER_1, idle, on node::"printer_1:9100", mounted form	 > DEFAULT @ >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /BLOCK_LIMIT=(1,"") /DEFAULT=(FORM=DEFAULT)I >   /LIBRARY=HP_DEVCTL Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=UCX$TELNETSYMeC >   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:RS) /RETAIN=ERROR /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)s >  > $ sho queue/full PRINTER_2? > Server queue PRINTER_2, idle, on node::, mounted form DEFAULTaA >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM]hG >   /PROCESSOR=UCX$LPD_SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:RS) /RETAIN=ERRORt >, >eF > PRINTER_1 is a HP Laserjet and its setup works fine - a standard UCX; > queue. The other is a Canon and set up as an LPD queue ink > UCX$LPD_PRINTCAP as; >v > PRINTER_2|printer_2:\e3 >         :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/UCX_LPD/PRINTER_2.LOG:\' >         :lp=PRINTER_2:\  >         :rm=printer_2:\ F >         :rp=print:\                          <- this was recommended. >         :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/UCX_LPD/PRINTER_2: > E > The real problem is that when you send postscript data to PRINTER_2eG > contained in a file that has RAT:FTN set the file doesn't print. WheniH > you convert it to being standard carriage control type format it does. >eB > Has anybody seen this, and if so, how is it cured. The output isC > generated by the application and so changing it is not an option.e >5	 > Thanks,e >o > Aden: Is there anything in sys$specific:[ucx_lpd]printer_2.log ?, Does sys$specific:[ucx_lpd.printer_2] exist?C We don't use any Canon lasers but on a system running ucx 4.1 eco 8 , we have :rp=raw:\ set up on some HP printers8 On a ucx 5.0 system we have some printers with :ps=LPS:\6 ucx 5 also has the LPD_DEBUG and LPD_RCV logical namesD to enable debugging - I don't know if there are equivalents in ucx 4 Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:00:39 -0600n7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>h% Subject: Re: Curious printing problemh- Message-ID: <3A0A1357.F781BB5E@earthlink.net>a   abirkett@my-deja.com wrote:  >  > Hi,s >  > VMS 7.1-2i > UCX 4.2 eco 4d > J > We are trying to send a postscript job to a Canon printer over IP and itH > doesn't work. Setup as below. (names changed to protect the innocent). > H > Printer queue PRINTER_1, idle, on node::"printer_1:9100", mounted form	 > DEFAULT @ >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /BLOCK_LIMIT=(1,"") /DEFAULT=(FORM=DEFAULT)I >   /LIBRARY=HP_DEVCTL Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=UCX$TELNETSYMoC >   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:RS) /RETAIN=ERROR /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE). >  > $ sho queue/full PRINTER_2? > Server queue PRINTER_2, idle, on node::, mounted form DEFAULTsA >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM]hG >   /PROCESSOR=UCX$LPD_SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:RS) /RETAIN=ERROR- > F > PRINTER_1 is a HP Laserjet and its setup works fine - a standard UCX; > queue. The other is a Canon and set up as an LPD queue in  > UCX$LPD_PRINTCAP as; >  > PRINTER_2|printer_2:\s3 >         :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/UCX_LPD/PRINTER_2.LOG:\n >         :lp=PRINTER_2:\  >         :rm=printer_2:\.F >         :rp=print:\                          <- this was recommended. >         :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/UCX_LPD/PRINTER_2: > E > The real problem is that when you send postscript data to PRINTER_2tG > contained in a file that has RAT:FTN set the file doesn't print. WhensH > you convert it to being standard carriage control type format it does. > B > Has anybody seen this, and if so, how is it cured. The output isC > generated by the application and so changing it is not an option.a  D The UCX print symbionts, despite being provided by Digital and laterD Compaq, are notorious for their lack of support for standard OpenVMSG print symbiont behavior. Another problem you'll find is that they don't G support either /FLAG or /BURST, don't honor /PAGE, ... I'm sure there'sh more.t  D The newer TCP/IP Services software on OpenVMS is supposed to share aF code base with the Tru64 version. However, remember that the idea of aH "print symbiont" in UN*X-land does not exist as we OpenVMS folk know it.F The closest parallel is any kind of "filter" which is plugged into the3 lpr processing via directives in the printcap file.l  D If you can't change the application, you may need to hack some otherG solution up like adding pre-print processing by some magic where in thet; file format can be changed using CONVERT or something else.    --   David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/'  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.'   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 18:01:19 +0100 ) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam).0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed! Message-ID: <1Adj6Pd1YAqt@ludens>t   Hi,     p In article <009F2B5F.2E3577B1@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: [...]d   >Jean-Franois Marchal wrote:  [...]e >>$    NAME_V01 = "0,8,RECORD1"t  >>$    NAME_V02 = "4,16,RECORD2" >>$    NAME = NAME'VSN's1 >>$    __NAME == f$edit(f$extract('NAME'),"TRIM")m  * I think this is startpos, len, symbol-name     WAXman- wrote: > 7 > NAME == F$edit(F$extract(F$element(0,",",NAME'VSN'),-l7 >                          F$element(1,",",NAME'VSN'),-1> >                          F$element(2,",",NAME'VSN')),"TRIM") >  >   % I think this is startpos, len, stringr  
 not equal.         >>$    NAME = NAME'VSN'I1 >>$    __NAME == f$edit(f$extract('NAME'),"TRIM")r    functionality equal in one line:    C $ __NAME == f$edit( f$extract( 'f$string( "'NAME"+VSN )) , "TRIM" )h    e   (c) real DCL hack :-)         Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-
 >            -Q > ** MicroVAX-IV (the final MicroVAX, code named Kevin) is one year old today. **j   happy birthday for him :-)     Adam Maulisf   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:26:25 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)c0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed0 Message-ID: <009F2B75.3E77CD2C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M In article <1Adj6Pd1YAqt@ludens>, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam) writes:a >Hi, s >n > q >In article <009F2B5F.2E3577B1@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:n >[...] >a >>Jean-Franois Marchal wrote: >[...]  >>>$    NAME_V01 = "0,8,RECORD1"! >>>$    NAME_V02 = "4,16,RECORD2"a >>>$    NAME = NAME'VSN'2 >>>$    __NAME == f$edit(f$extract('NAME'),"TRIM") >.+ >I think this is startpos, len, symbol-namel >r >, >WAXman- wrote:   J Sorry, you must have me mixed up with the candle stick maker.  I'm neither" of that famous nursery rhyme trio.  8 >> NAME == F$edit(F$extract(F$element(0,",",NAME'VSN'),-8 >>                          F$element(1,",",NAME'VSN'),-? >>                          F$element(2,",",NAME'VSN')),"TRIM")I >>   >> G >c& >I think this is startpos, len, string >  >not equal.k >  >m >m >u >>>$    NAME = NAME'VSN'2 >>>$    __NAME == f$edit(f$extract('NAME'),"TRIM") > ! >functionality equal in one line:  >m >lD >$ __NAME == f$edit( f$extract( 'f$string( "'NAME"+VSN )) , "TRIM" ) >  >  >  >(c) real DCL hack :-)  G If it worked, it would be a real DCL hack.  However, since it does not, F I would have to conclude that it can be done only with the F$element()  or some such similar extraction.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMp            oO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.n   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 18:32:43 +0100a) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)t0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed! Message-ID: <FXL+Tfom2vUw@ludens>s  e In article <M9oGOjADM8cqfEuB7C8aYxRym8jk@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com> writes:s > I don't thinkt; > it can be done in one line.  I've done this kind of things: > before with "dynamic" DCL and could never get it to work > one a single line.    7 The problem: ( dcl makes only one-level substitution. )l   $ symbollevel1 = "apple" $ symbollevel2 = "symbollevel1"m $ symbollevel3 = "symbollevel2"h $ symbollevel4 = "symbollevel3"s $ symbollevel5 = "symbollevel4"n   $ say symbollevel1 applee   $ say 'symbollevel2  apple   & $ say 'f$string ( "'" + symbollevel3 ) apple     5 I have no idea how I can get the "apple" string from n2 symbollevel4 or symbollevel5 in only one DCL line.         >  > David R. Beatty      Adam Maulis    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:55:20 GMT-= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)00 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed0 Message-ID: <009F2B79.4878D8D6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <8u6opg$jkb$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:a >l7 >"Maulis Adam" <maulis@ludens.elte.hu> wrote in messagee >news:1Adj6Pd1YAqt@ludens... >g >> >>$    NAME = NAME'VSN'4 >> >>$    __NAME == f$edit(f$extract('NAME'),"TRIM") >># >> functionality equal in one line:e >>F >> $ __NAME == f$edit( f$extract( 'f$string( "'NAME"+VSN )) , "TRIM" ) >> >> >> (c) real DCL hack :-) >  >d >Great ! works perfectly ...   How?   $ SHOW SYMBOL NAME= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling- $ SHOW SYMBOL NAME_V01   NAME_V01 = "0,8,RECORD1" $ SHOW SYMBOL VSN    VSN == "_V01"2C $ __NAME == f$edit( f$extract( 'f$string( "'NAME"+VSN )) , "TRIM" )D= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling 
  \RECORD1\ $V   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn            AO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:53:37 +0100> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed. Message-ID: <8u6r12$m06$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009F2B75.3E77CD2C@SendSpamHere.ORG...  G > In article <1Adj6Pd1YAqt@ludens>, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)d writes:x > >)# > >functionality equal in one line:hF > >$ __NAME == f$edit( f$extract( 'f$string( "'NAME"+VSN )) , "TRIM" ) > >(c) real DCL hack :-) > I > If it worked, it would be a real DCL hack.  However, since it does not, H > I would have to conclude that it can be done only with the F$element()" > or some such similar extraction.   Oups ... forgot the test procn   $ RECORD = "abcdefghij". $ NAME_V02 = "2,3,RECORD"e $ VSN = "02"; $ NAME = f$edit(f$extract('f$string("'NAME_V"+VSN)),"TRIM")  $ sh symbol NAME     NAME = "cde"  ( Seems to be correct, in one single line. Did I miss something ?  
 Jean-Franoisa   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:05:23 +0100> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed. Message-ID: <8u6rn5$mom$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009F2B79.4878D8D6@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > In article <8u6opg$jkb$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal"( <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes: > >- ...- >- > How? >- > $ SHOW SYMBOL NAME? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling  > $ SHOW SYMBOL NAME_V01 >   NAME_V01 = "0,8,RECORD1" > $ SHOW SYMBOL VSN  >   VSN == "_V01"pE > $ __NAME == f$edit( f$extract( 'f$string( "'NAME"+VSN )) , "TRIM" )g? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingf >  \RECORD1\ > $t  # did you define record1 previously ?tH as I want to parse record1, I read it before, then it is not undefined !   Cordialement
 Jean-Franoiso   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 18:45:36 GMTp= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) 0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed0 Message-ID: <009F2B80.4E16611D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <8u6r12$m06$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:r >?K >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in messagel+ >news:009F2B75.3E77CD2C@SendSpamHere.ORG...r >mH >> In article <1Adj6Pd1YAqt@ludens>, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam) >writes: >> >$ >> >functionality equal in one line:G >> >$ __NAME == f$edit( f$extract( 'f$string( "'NAME"+VSN )) , "TRIM" )a >> >(c) real DCL hack :-)  >>J >> If it worked, it would be a real DCL hack.  However, since it does not,I >> I would have to conclude that it can be done only with the F$element() # >> or some such similar extraction.l >a >Oups ... forgot the test proc >- >$ RECORD = "abcdefghij" >$ NAME_V02 = "2,3,RECORD"
 >$ VSN = "02"a< >$ NAME = f$edit(f$extract('f$string("'NAME_V"+VSN)),"TRIM") >$ sh symbol NAME6 >C >  NAME = "cde"u > ) >Seems to be correct, in one single line.  >Did I miss something ?m  I ... probably a better explaination in your first post.  I took it to mean < that "record" was data in the record and not another symbol.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.c   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 13:57 -0400 From: hein@eps.zko.dec.c*m0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed% Message-ID: <6NOV200013573227@miasys>   O In article <1Adj6Pd1YAqt@ludens>, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam) writes...V :6 >>Jean-Franois Marchal wrote: :   >>>$    NAME_V01 = "0,8,RECORD1"! >>>$    NAME_V02 = "4,16,RECORD2"  >>>$    NAME = NAME'VSN'2 >>>$    __NAME == f$edit(f$extract('NAME'),"TRIM") :aD >$ __NAME == f$edit( f$extract( 'f$string( "'NAME"+VSN )) , "TRIM" ) :i  C Actually... contrary to an earlier reply I made, It took me a while E to realize that the construction f$extract('variable') where variablen2 is an f$extrace style argument list, indeed works.  8 DCL will dig in and return the contents of named string.   So with ( 	$record1 = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"( 	$record2 = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" DCL will write: $ 	$write sys$output f$extr('NAME_V01)     abcdefgh$ 	$write sys$output f$extr('NAME_V02)     EFGHIJKLMNOPQRST   	0B I'm pointing this out explicitly, because this would seem to be a  little know feature.   Ciao,i 	Hein.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:58:45 +0100> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed- Message-ID: <8u72bn$g1$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>i  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009F2B80.4E16611D@SendSpamHere.ORG...  K > ... probably a better explaination in your first post.  I took it to mean5> > that "record" was data in the record and not another symbol.  - Sorry if my frenglish has been confusing ....3  
 Jean-Franoisc   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:16:40 GMTi= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)20 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed0 Message-ID: <009F2B8D.071CED89@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <8u72bn$g1$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>, "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes: > K >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in messaget+ >news:009F2B80.4E16611D@SendSpamHere.ORG...t >sL >> ... probably a better explaination in your first post.  I took it to mean? >> that "record" was data in the record and not another symbol.P > . >Sorry if my frenglish has been confusing .... >C >Jean-Franois  A ... but we're speaking a language we should both comprehend, DCL!i   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.v   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 21:52:35 GMTh= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed0 Message-ID: <009F2B9A.6D1858B1@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3A070E3D.7029CB84@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >hein@eps.zko.dec.c*m wrote:# >> >>>$    NAME_V01 = "0,8,RECORD1"  >> DCL will write:. >>         $write sys$output f$extr('NAME_V01) >dD >> I'm pointing this out explicitly, because this would seem to be a >> little know feature.S >UL >Is this specific to f$extract, or is is a feature that applies generally to >all lexicals ?a  ( $ ALPHABET=="ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" $ CHARACTER1 == "0,8,ALPHABET" $ CHARACTER2 == "8,8,ALPHABET"& $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$cvui('CHARACTER1) 65& $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$cvui('CHARACTER1) 66  J It appears to work because the ' causes the translation prior to executing the lexical.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM/             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.i   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 22:51:49 +0100o) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)t0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed! Message-ID: <u2VYcOFT9mZd@ludens>e  \ In article <3A070E3D.7029CB84@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > hein@eps.zko.dec.c*m wrote: # >> >>>$    NAME_V01 = "0,8,RECORD1"g >> DCL will write:. >>         $write sys$output f$extr('NAME_V01) > D >> I'm pointing this out explicitly, because this would seem to be a >> little know feature.n  A    It is not new feature, (but of course may be a little know :-)s    > Is this specific to f$extract,  %    It is not specific to any lexicalsi  = > or is is a feature that applies generally to all lexicals ?-  *    It is not specific to the lexicals only  -    This is a general DCL symbol-substitution.h  5    If the symbol containts characters you want insertg:    any part of the DCL command file you can put the symbol    bitween ' signs.i   Most usage:.     Mass conditional outcomment:  # $	if p1 .eqs "DEBUG" then dbg = "!"  $o $	copy file1.dat file2.dat $ 'dbg' delete file1.dat;w    m Dynamic qualifier:     $	qual = "" F $	if f$trnlnm("DECC$CC_DEFAULT") .eqs. "/DECC" then qual="/STAND=VAXC"7 $	if p1 .eqs. "DEBUG" then qual = qual + "/NOOPT/DEBUG") $	CC 'qual' filename.c      F Dynamic parameter: (DCL command or DCL lexical one or more parameters)   $	copy 'p1' 'p2' $	c = """!AS"",p1" $	f$fao('c')     DCL symbol vector    $	open inf file.dat2	 $	idx = 0q $ loop:T% $	read /end_of_file=end_loop inf lineA $	linevec_'idx' = line $	idx = idx + 1, $	goto loop  $ end_loop:M $	close infE           Regards,   Adam Maulis:   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:04:23 GMTp* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed) Message-ID: <8u7kek$alu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e  ! In article <FXL+Tfom2vUw@ludens>,C,   maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam) wrote:A > In article <M9oGOjADM8cqfEuB7C8aYxRym8jk@4ax.com>, David Beatty % <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com> writes:  > > I don't thinkE= > > it can be done in one line.  I've done this kind of thingo< > > before with "dynamic" DCL and could never get it to work > > one a single line. > 9 > The problem: ( dcl makes only one-level substitution. )r >g > $ symbollevel1 = "apple"! > $ symbollevel2 = "symbollevel1"d! > $ symbollevel3 = "symbollevel2" ! > $ symbollevel4 = "symbollevel3"a! > $ symbollevel5 = "symbollevel4"a >  > $ say symbollevel1 > applee >i > $ say 'symbollevel2a > apple  >p( > $ say 'f$string ( "'" + symbollevel3 ) > applen >d6 > I have no idea how I can get the "apple" string from4 > symbollevel4 or symbollevel5 in only one DCL line.  G You can go to 4 using &'&symbol4 *** if *** you change all your symbolsS@ to upper case (actually you only need to upcase symbollevel1 and4 symbollevel3 on the right sides of the equal signs):   DCL> sh sym ev!   EV*ALUATE == "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT"e DCL> type huh.comi $ SYMBOLLEVEL1 = "APPLE" $ SYMBOLLEVEL2 = "SYMBOLLEVEL1"l $ SYMBOLLEVEL3 = "SYMBOLLEVEL2"a $ SYMBOLLEVEL4 = "SYMBOLLEVEL3"l $ SYMBOLLEVEL5 = "SYMBOLLEVEL4"c $ EV &'&SYMBOLLEVEL4  	 DCL> @huhh $ SYMBOLLEVEL1 = "APPLE" $ SYMBOLLEVEL2 = "SYMBOLLEVEL1"g $ SYMBOLLEVEL3 = "SYMBOLLEVEL2"  $ SYMBOLLEVEL4 = "SYMBOLLEVEL3"h $ SYMBOLLEVEL5 = "SYMBOLLEVEL4"t $ EV &SYMBOLLEVEL2 APPLEp  F You can use '& to request exactly two levels of symbol substituion iff@ the intermediate symbol is in upper case. You can also use '& toE perform one level of symbol substitution within comments! All this is  demonstrated below.    DCL> TYPE MAKE.COM $   ZERO == "ONE". $   ONE == "TWO" $   TWO == "THREE" $   THREE == "FOUR"o $   FOUR == "FIVE" DCL> DCL> @MAKE;  DCL> DCL> TYPE 'ZERO'G %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for _IDS03$DKA200:[FELDMAN.DCL.SUB]  ONE.LIS; -RMS-E-FNF, file not found DCL> DCL> TYPE '&ZERO'dG %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for _IDS03$DKA200:[FELDMAN.DCL.SUB]3 TWO.LIS; -RMS-E-FNF, file not found DCL> DCL> TYPE &'&ZERO'G %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for _IDS03$DKA200:[FELDMAN.DCL.SUB]e
 THREE.LIS; -RMS-E-FNF, file not found  < The '& operator is iterative the same way the ' operator is:   DCL> ZERO == "'&ONE'"( DCL> TWO  == "'&THREE'"n DCL> FOUR == "'FIVE'", DCL> DCL> TYPE 'ZERO'G %TYPE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for _IDS03$DKA200:[FELDMAN.DCL.SUB]  SIX.LIS; -RMS-E-FNF, file not found DCL>= DCL> ! zero > '&one > 'two' > '&three > 'four' > 'five' > six'  ? *** HOWEVER ***, '& does not work if the intermediate symbol is  in lower case:   DCL> ZERO == "one" DCL> DCL> TYPE '&ZERO'i _File:
  Interrupt   DCL> DE := '&ZERO' DCL> SH SYM DE	   DE = ""  DCL>  = Also, you will find that &' is *NOT* iterative at all. The '& A substituions happen entirely in phase 1, whereas the & part of &'cE happens in phase two and is therefore not iterative. This is left "as  an exercise for the reader".  C Now, for symbol substitution inside of comments: The only caveat isrE that you must spell the symbol name in uppercase letters. I find thisoG useful for displaying symbol values only when verification turned on bye using the form   $! SYMBOL = '&SYMBOL'o   Example:   DCL> TYPE SYMCOM.COM $    ZERO == "ONE" $S $!   ZERO == '&ZERO' $! $!   ZERO == '&zero' DCL> DCL> SET VERIFYe DCL>
 DCL> @SYMCOM;t $    ZERO == "ONE" $I $!   ZERO == 'ONE' $! $!   ZERO == ''. DCL>  G The result of & substitution is not upcased, even when forced to run ina phase 1 by '. Also,c   DCL> A = &ZERO
 DCL> SH SYM AV   A = "TWO"O DCL> ZERO == "one" DCL> A = &ZERO= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellinga  \one\ DCL>  E So if you want to use the result of &symbol as a symbol, the value ofwE symbol must contain no lower case letters. In other cases, it doesn't  matter:h       $ TYPE zeron   works just as well asN       $ TYPE ZEROr  < I guess that RMS upcases lowercase arguments, but = doesn't.  G Another difference between '& and &' is that the latter doesn't work inE
 this example:I   DCL> K600 := USR:[FELDMAN.K600 DCL> P1 := K600t DCL> FIT := '&P1.FIT]  DCL> SH SYM FIT>    FIT = "USR:[FELDMAN.K600.FIT]" DCL> DCL> FIT:=&'P1.FIT]A DCL> sh sym fit    FIT = "&K600.FIT]"   Of course, one could always do   DCL> INT = 'P1'  DCL> FIT := 'INT.FIT]) DCL> SH SYM FIT     FIT = "USR:[FELDMAN.K600.FIT]"   instead.   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    w:i  alan48  &-)        afeldman  &-) dellnet.com        gfigroup.comh    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 00:04:23 GMTO* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed) Message-ID: <8ua5a3$d8n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a   Hello,  9 First of all, let me say at the outset that I think it ism# good that DCL actually favors usingi" single quotes in lexical functions: that are evaluated inside of quoted strings. Once you have; the appearance of ''F$something(, the apostrophes are going > to "force" lexical evaluation anyway. So I am glad that DCL is the way that it is. However:  . In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011070940370.30636- 100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>,=   "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote:e >=
 >  Hello !7 >  Regardless the fact, that have seen only part of thee1 > thread (what is a separate question) have seen:e  , > On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Alan E. Feldman wrote: >e/ > +In article <3A071E5A.4A704770@videotron.ca>,n3 > +  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:h > +> Maulis Adam wrote:s1 > +> >    It is not specific to the lexicals onlyo > +> >4 > +> >    This is a general DCL symbol-substitution. >  >  Will agree. >-G > +> I know about ' being used at the "command line". However, I have aH@ > +> feeling that parsing inside of lexicals is quite different. >s >  IMO not.     E I think you're missing the point. Normally, you must double quotationoC marks to have them recognized as such when you are within quotation.F marks. But as you can see below, behavior is different. You can double< them in many cases, but DCL actually favors single quotes in this instance.  1 [   CONVENTION: quote = quotation mark = "   ]!!!)  ? First let's see what happens to a string "def" by adding quotesi one layer at a time.  D EV*ALUATE = "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT" as usual; all examples run on VMS6.1.   $   EV "def" deft $   EV ""def"" DEFH $   EV """def""" "def"D $   EV """"def"""" "DEF"c $   EV """""def""""" ""def""W  3 Now let's do the same thing inside a quoted string:M   $   EV "BLAH def BLAH"
 BLAH def BLAH$ $   EV "BLAH "def" BLAH"
 BLAH DEF BLAH) $   EV "BLAH ""def"" BLAH" BLAH "def" BLAH  $   EV "BLAH """def""" BLAH" BLAH "DEF" BLAH  $   EV "BLAH """"def"""" BLAH" BLAH ""def"" BLAH-  $   EV "BLAH """""def""""" BLAH" BLAH ""DEF"" BLAHy $!  G The pattern is the same for both: def, DEF, "def", "DEF", ""def"", etc. 4 NOW, let's see what happens with lexical functions!:   $   EV F$STRING("def") defr $   EV F$STRING(""def"") DEFm $   EV F$STRING("""def""") "def"s $   EV F$STRING(""""def"""") "DEF"g $   EV F$STRING("""""def""""") ""def""   E So far, so good. The pattern is still the same. Now let's do the samea in a quoted string:7   DCL$ TYPE QEXAM.COM.% $   EV "BLAH ''F$STRING("def")' BLAH" ' $   EV "BLAH ''F$STRING(""def"")' BLAH"t) $   EV "BLAH ''F$STRING("""def""")' BLAH"i+ $   EV "BLAH ''F$STRING(""""def"""")' BLAH"r- $   EV "BLAH ''F$STRING("""""def""""")' BLAH"    DCL$ @QEXAM; $   EV "BLAH def BLAH"
 BLAH def BLAHc $   EV "BLAH DEF BLAH"
 BLAH DEF BLAHo $   EV "BLAH "def" BLAH"
 BLAH DEF BLAHo $   EV "BLAH "DEF" BLAH"
 BLAH DEF BLAHs $   EV "BLAH ""def"" BLAH" BLAH "def" BLAHt    < The pattern is clearly different: def, DEF, DEF, DEF, "def".: How do you explain the difference? Actually, now that I've, looked at these new examples, it makes sense< if you look at the echoed commands under @QEXAM. The pattern@ of def, DEF, "def", "DEF", ""def"", ***in the echoed commands***8 is actually the same as above, but because they are each? embedded in a quoted string, you get the apparently paradoxical 0 result. It makes sense, however, if you consider   ''F$STRING("def")'  " as being replaced by the result of   EV "def" !,e   ''F$STRING(""def"")'  " as being replaced by the result of  
 EV ""def"" !,c   etc.   In fact, look at this!!!:,   DCL$ ev ""def:""B %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special
 characters  \:""\ DCL$ ev ""def*"" 0D DCL$  ; The added colon screws up the double quotes the same way it 8 does in a lexical function! And the * gives the result 0: just as it does in the lexical function several paragraphs; below!!! Sorry for this slightly out of order post; it justd$ takes too long to keep rewriting it.  > The problem here, is that if you have the same lexical command@ giving different answers in these two different contexts. That's why I think it's best to do  ' EV "part1 ", F$STRING(""def""), "part2"a  ) e.g., if any "extra" quotes are involved,t= or to assemble the 3 parts with plus signs and assign it to aR< symbol. But DCL is simply following its own rules, yet these; things happen! In fact, if you look only at the lines below16 @QEXAM, DCL is simply following its own quoting rules.= Note: I haven't tried this with more complicated expressions.<   Another example:   DCL$ ev "abcdefghi" 	 abcdefghiB DCL$ ev "abc"def"ghi"e	 abcDEFghim" DCL$ ev "abc''f$string("def")'ghi"	 abcdefghiu  8 Here we see that a single quote layer inside the lexical6 function keeps us in "quote-mode" while a single layer7 of quotes in a simple string (2nd command) puts us backh7 in non-quote mode. Of course, this makes sense in lightk' of my new explanation given just above.d  ! (I define quote mode as that mode 6 where characters are taken verbatim and quotes have to- be doubled to be recognized as single quotes,- and non-quote mode6 is where lowercase letters are converted to uppercase,3 spaces compressed to single spaces, etc.) Examples:M  5 $ a1:= "abc"def     again"ghi"      !  non-quote modet $ sh sym a1    A1 = "abcDEF AGAINghi"1 $ a1:= "abc""def     again""ghi"    !  quote modei $ sh sym a1r   A1 = "abc"def     again"ghi"5 $ a1:= "abc"""def     again"""ghi"  !  non-quote modes $ sh sym a1    A1 = "abc"DEF AGAIN"ghi"1 $ a1:= "abc""""def     again""""ghi"!  quote mode- $ sh sym a1     A1 = "abc""def     again""ghi"    < > [...long explanation of DCL command processing omitted...] >-= > i. in expression and in command parts interpreted thru .CLIoD >  by the programm a [&] before name starts a separate substitution;< >  the &name is interpreted as "include the symbol as syntax; >  part" - what differs from the [']; b.ex. if the symbol Fn7 >  includes "*.COM/SIZE" the usage in DIR 'F' is properO: >  (is resolved as text) but DIR &F is not (because is NOT; >  separated to parameter+qualifier, here it is interpreteda- >  AFTER the command was "split to parts" !).N    9 Also, the result of &symbol must be upper case to work asr part of a command:   DCL$ A = "since" DCL$ DIR /&AE %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, andt	 placementt  \since\ DCL$  G The command sequence above works fine if you spell since in upper case. @ The results of ampersand substitution are not upcased unless the command itself upcases it as ine  D $ TYPE &P'COUNT' --> TYPE fred.dat  ! works assuming P1 = "fred.dat"   Also,(   DCL$ fred = "Husband of Wilma" DCL$ p1 = "fred" DCL$ count = 1 DCL$ a = &p'count'= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling-  \fred\- DCL$ p1 = "FRED" DCL$ a = &p'count'
 DCL$ sh sym a+   A = "Husband of Wilma" DCL$  D because fred is not a symbol while FRED is. (I didn't try this using@ your famous "Smolik symbols" which contain lower case letters in, the symbol name. Cool use of the ampersand!)   > [...stuff omitted...]e >e > +> for instance: > +>E > +> $write sys$output  "To print a "" you need to double the quotes"s@ > +> $write sys$output  "But inside a lexical such as ''F$TRNLNM, > +> ("SYS$NODE")' you don't need to double" > @ >  No "don't need". You *can't* use to get the expected result !    6 Yes you can! You can use single or double quotes here:   DCL$- DCL$ EV "BLAH ''F$TRNLNM("SYS$SYSTEM")' BLAH"j BLAH SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE] BLAH/ DCL$ EV "BLAH ''F$TRNLNM(""SYS$SYSTEM"")' BLAH"S BLAH SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE] BLAH   It works the same for SYS$NODE.-     > [more omitted] >rF > +It appears that quotes inside of lexicals that are evaluated inside ofE > +quotation marks can in some circumstances be single or double, butm inE > +others they must be single. If the string contains a colon, a pair  ofC > +brackets, or, as a guess, other file-spec delimiters, it must bee( > +surrounded by single quotation marks. >e  >  Will disagree. Your examples:    C My examples proved just what I said. Including a colon in a string, B for example, makes double quoting the lexical argument break. ThisB is as true for f$parse as it is for f$cvtime. Including a colon inE non-lexical multi-quoted strings does not cause any error. An example-$ of this is given later in this post.    0 >  (Probably EV is something "write sys$output") >b8 > +$    EV "BLAH  1 ''F$GETDVI("DKA200","DIR")   ! works9 >                                             ^         ^ 9 >  DCL here "autocloses" the line ! The proper syntax is:m9 > $    EV "BLAH  1 ''F$GETDVI("DKA200","DIR")'   ! works"r    = You're right here. I guess I need more sleep. I apologize for & being sloppy about "closing" properly.    F >  As before: will name the prectice of "unclosed characters" as BAD !     Agreed.n     >u >  Next: > [...]s: > +$    EV "BLAH  9 ''F$GETDVI(""DKA200"","DIR")   ! works > 9 >  Check point "g.": as in syntax (check the SH SYM X !):W > $ del/sym alpha= > $ x=alpha	! error !R > $ x=alpha""	! error[2] !
 > $ x=""alphaT
 > $ x="a"lphaT >)D >  if a "string" is a "part of syntax element" (means: not separated@ > by space, slash [qalifier mark] or operator [in expression) it3 > forces the whole "syntax part" to be a "string" ! B >  That has NOTHING to "DCL espacially interpretes ["] in lexical" > but is a *general* rule !w
 >  If you do:r > $ SET PROMPT=My Name>-@ >  you get syntax error - because only one parameter is rquired. > $ SET PROMPT="My Name> " >  is the "well known" syntaxL > $ SET PROMPT=""My Name> ""4 >  is also bad - for the same reason ! (separator !)    > It's bad because the second quote turns off "quote mode" after) which spaces become parameter delimeters. # We may be in agreement on this one.g     > [...stuff omitted...]  >$? > +If you have a colon or "[]", the quotes must not be doubled:e > [...],C > +$    EV "BLAH 10 ''F$GETDVI(""DKA200:"","DIR")   ! does not works >t3 > ...because the characters are interpreted by DCL.s >  Becuase:  > $ SET PROMPT=My Name>  > $ SET PROMPT=""My Name> "" >c= >  is invalid for the extra space - where forces DCL to "see"c$ > 2 parameters, and in your example:C > +$    EV "BLAH 10 ''F$GETDVI(""DKA200:"","DIR")   ! does not work * >          ^          ^        ^^  ^   ^^^* >          1          2        34  5   678 > 1 - starts a stringl* > 2 - start a lexical within it (we agree)' > 3 - starts a string within expressione+ > 4 - *ENDS* the "starting point" of stringd@ > 5 - is the "string part not within quotes", as in $ X=""dka200 >    example > 6 - is unexpected operator !!UG >  DCL founds start of string (3), end of the "save special characters"a@ >  part (4), rest will interpret as "string included" *but* willB >  here check for separators. *If* a space is find - you know. But> >  because it is b.ex. ":" DCL has trouble: what is it here ??    C I'm not sure what you're saying here, but now I understand a littlel better what's going on.i> Every time you add a layer of quotes, you toggle between quoteB mode and non-quote mode. Every other layer of quotes in the string. adds one layer of quotes to the output string.  @ Actually, each time a quote is added as below, we toggle between quote mode and non-quote mode:   DCL$ ev "abc"def"ghi"jkl"mno"p abcDEFghiJKLmnon DCL$  8 But what surprises me, and others, is that in cases like  ' $ EV "BLAH ''F$GETDVI("DKA200","DIR")'"B  B the inner quotes don't have to be doubled to be treated as quotes!D Normally, single embedded quotes turn off "quote mode". But here, weC remain in quote mode. Using double quotes puts us back in non-quoteeF mode, which is upcases the string which is then still a valid argumentE for the lexical function. (I'm glad DCL actually favors use of singlel= quotes in this case. There is no functionality lost by this.)   0 More fun examples, including one with the colon:   DCL$, DCL$ ev "blah ''f$string(""dka200*"")' blah" blah 0 blahs* DCL$ ev "blah ''f$string("dka200*")' blah" blah dka200* blahe  ( We get 0 in the first case! Why? Because   DCL$ ev ""def*"" 0n DCL$   also gives 0. Anyone know why?   DCL$ set prom="dka200:"  dka200:set prom=""dka200:""* DKA200:set prom="""dka200:"""y	 "dka200:"u  = Above, the colon works fine even with three layers of quotes.b9 But the colon does screw up in lexical functions with two : layers of quotes! That's another difference. But it screws" up the same way in EV ""DKA200:"".   DCL$ ev "dka200:"E dka200:Y DCL$ ev ""dka200:""EB %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special
 characters  \:""\ DCL$  F Hence my hunch that "''F$STRING(""DKA200:"") works like EV ""DKA200:"" (see explanation way above).  : Now here are some real doosies. Run the command file below4 and you will see that my comments for x are correct.  
 DCL$ TY 1.COMx $    ZERO == "ONE" $!	 $! works:i" $    X := "''F$STRING("''ZERO'")'"% $    SHOW SYMBOL X   !  --> X = "ONE"e $! $! doesn't work:0 $    X := "''F$STRING("'F$STRING("''ZERO'")'")'"/ $    X := "''F$STRING("'F$STRING("'ZERO'")'")'"O $!	 $! works: 3 $    X := "''F$STRING("''F$STRING(""''ZERO'"")'")'"o% $    SHOW SYMBOL X   !  --> X = "ONE"  $!. $    X := 'F$STRING("'F$STRING(""'ZERO'"")'")'& $    SHOW SYMBOL X   !  -->  X = "ONE" $!2 $    X := "''F$STRING("''F$STRING(""'ZERO'"")'")'") $    SHOW SYMBOL X   !  -->  X = "'ZERO'"e $! DCL$  @ Can you explain these? In the first F$STRING argument, the outerD quotes need to be single. In the inner f$string argument, the quotesA need to be double. It's getting late and I'll have to think aboutt this more later.  5 But, why? Why can't they all be single? Once you haveC? a lexical function being forced into action by the apostrophes,V? a single quote should be okay. But it is different at different 6 levels and it is different from non-lexicals, sort of.  4 BTW, I haven't found a way to nest deeper than this.  B Of course, you may never need expressions like these double-nested. examples. And if you do, there are other ways.      > [...yet more stuff omitted...]     -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    w:'  alan48  &-)        afeldman  &-) dellnet.com        gfigroup.coms    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:23:59 +0800' From: "Maverick" <seawyk@letterbox.com>e. Subject: Re: DCPS 1.8 and LN32 Duplex Printing0 Message-ID: <8uefao$aaj$1@newsie.singa.pore.net>   Hi...m  K Tested the code fragments and they worked beautifully... now in the processy< of finding out where I went wrong. Thanks for all the help!!  2 "Maverick" <seawyk@letterbox.com> wrote in message* news:8tsl8j$tcr$1@newsie.singa.pore.net...@ > Thks for the reply, I'll test it out and revert on the results >  > rgds >@
 > Maverick >ZA > "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in message ( > news:8tn9k3$o8r@gap.cco.caltech.edu...L > > In article <paul.r.anderson-EF2AC8.14372531102000@news.compaq.com>, Paul/ > Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> writes:A@ > > >In article <8tn34r$coo$1@newsie.singa.pore.net>, "Maverick"" > > ><seawyk@letterbox.com> wrote: > > >sK > > >> However, print jobs that I have submitted with the duplex option haswJ > > >> also returned a message that says that duplex option not supported. > > >  > > >Please post > > K > > It works on my system, so here are the values for the positive control:  > >t > > >f% > > >   - PRINT command you are usingt > >o > > These both worke > >eD > >   PRINTD == "PRINT/QUEUE=CPS_ANSI/NOFLAG/PARAMETERS=(SIDES=TWO)" > >   PRINTMD == > L "PRINT/QUEUE=CPS_ANSI/NOFLAG/PARAMETERS=(LAYUP="(MARGINS=72,72,72,72;NOBORDE > RS)",SIDES=TWO)" > >T8 > > >   - Result of SHOW QUEUE /FULL of LN32 print queue > >F! > >   $ sho que/full/all cps_ansi $ > >   Generic printer queue CPS_ANSIK > >     /GENERIC=(CPS) /OWNER=[SYSMGR,SYSTEM] /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)e > /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) > >   $ sho que/full/all cpsJ > >   Printer queue CPS, idle, on SEQAXP::DCPS$, mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT > (stock=DEFAULT)e+ > >     <LN32 (with duplexor) in 158 Braun>EE > >     /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT))n/ > /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercasem2 > >     /OWNER=[SYSMGR,SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB2 > /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) > >nH > > >   - Error message returned and whether it's printed on the printer" > > >     or on the OpenVMS system > >o) > > Can't help with that one - no errors.  > >"F > > On the hardware side the original poster should make sure that theJ > > cord from the duplexor is firmly plugged into the appropriate locationG > > on the LN32.  That's around the back of the machine and if somebodypH > > pulled it out when working on the machine (or never plugged it in inD > > the first place) that would not be evident from the front of the > > machine. > >lC > > By the way, this is the best printer I've ever used.  It's justcE > > amazing how fast it can print (even in duplex mode) and the print H > > quality is excellent. We've had only one paper jam in the year we'veI > > owned it.  The only other problem of note was a glitch involving DCPS-H > > and the Windows drivers (which caused some VMS print jobs to requeueD > > and print again) and that was corrected by upgrading the printerE > > firmware.  We upgraded DCPS too but that turned out not to be thetC > > problem.  It's got real Adobe Postscript 3 in it so none of theeC > > postscript emulation problems arise. Genicom really should do aeH > > better job marketing these things - they are a lot less work to dealI > > with than the HPs most everybody else is using and the cost is pretty!H > > close (if you shop around).   Ours is only the duplexor and the baseJ > > unit which has enough capacity for us.  With the optional paper feeder@ > > under it the LN32 can print a small forest's worth of paper. > >e > > Regards, > >V > > David Mathog! > > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu B > > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech >d >B   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:02:22 -0500H0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com>% Subject: Re: DCPS page width question"C Message-ID: <paul.r.anderson-9647E6.14022209112000@news.compaq.com>"  8 In article <8uehil$uou$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Edward Heller  <ejheller@my-deja.com> wrote:   F > The problem is that if I print (using DCL) a file with more than 80 C > columns, the data is truncated (as I expect), however if I write SD > more than 80 columns to $PRINTER from an application, the data is  > wrapped around."  I Is the application writing to $PRINTER going through the same queues and oF forms as when you print from the DCL prompt?  Could you show the full H definition of the relevant print queues, definition of $PRINTER and the  PRINT command you use?   Paul   --  ,    Paul Anderson, OpenVMS Engineering (DCPS),    Compaq Computer Corporation, Littleton MA   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:10:28 GMTB* From: Edward Heller <ejheller@my-deja.com>% Subject: Re: DCPS page width questionB) Message-ID: <8uf7cc$ja4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>B  C In article <paul.r.anderson-9647E6.14022209112000@news.compaq.com>, 3   Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> wrote:A9 > In article <8uehil$uou$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Edward Hellerk > <ejheller@my-deja.com> wrote:e >oG > > The problem is that if I print (using DCL) a file with more than 80iD > > columns, the data is truncated (as I expect), however if I writeE > > more than 80 columns to $PRINTER from an application, the data iso > > wrapped around.k >sF > Is the application writing to $PRINTER going through the same queues andtG > forms as when you print from the DCL prompt?  Could you show the full E > definition of the relevant print queues, definition of $PRINTER and, theC > PRINT command you use? >L > Paul >a > --. >    Paul Anderson, OpenVMS Engineering (DCPS). >    Compaq Computer Corporation, Littleton MA >o   The print queues are:o $sh que/dev=pr/full F Printer queue DCPS_EXEC, idle, on HOST::"IP_RawTCP/192.168.1.10:9100",) mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)s?   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT))a<   /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[1,4] /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMBe2   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)   Generic printer queue SYS$PRINT A   /GENERIC=(DCPS_EXEC) /OWNER=[1,4] /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)a   /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)   The $PRINTER definition is:  $sh log $printer*    "$PRINTER" = "LRA0:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  % The $PRINTER device configuration is:u $sh dev $printer/fullh  C Printer LRA0:, device type LP11, is online, record-oriented device,m carriage>     control, device is spooled through an intermediate device.  D     Error count                    0    Operations completed       6D     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC              [1,4]D     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot   S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,WD     Reference count                0    Default buffer size      132D     Page width                   132    Page Length               661     No Carriage_return  Formfeed        Uppercasem3     No Passall          No Wrap         No Printallt0     No Fallback         No Tab          Truncate9     No Sixels           No Bitmapped            No Polleds     Intermediate device: DKA0:"     Associated queue:    SYS$PRINT  D A sample program that performs the same as the production code (note4 that Deja does some wrapping that I cannot control):	 main () {    # include <stdio.h>D           char line [85] =H "12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901 2345678901234";"         FILE fileptr;h         short int row, col;s  =         fileptr = fopen ("$PRINTER:","a","rfm=var","rat=cr");"         if (fileptr) {1                 for  (row = 0; row < 40; row++) { 8                         for (col = 0; col < 84; col++) {;                                 fputc (line[col], fileptr);u                         }a.                         fputc ('\n', fileptr);                 }n	         }s   }l    / The DCL PRINT command uses the SYS$PRINT queue.m   Thanks for your response.    --
 Edward HellerM TransCore, ITS Atlanta, GA, USA    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.N   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:18:02 +0100t0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr>& Subject: DEC 40 years commemoration CD* Message-ID: <3A0AA40A.C243F834@Easynet.fr>  @ I received recently a gift from a former DEC employee in France.  I The gift is the 40 years commemoration CD, still packed under cellophane.a  H The rear side of the box says that it can be used with a PC with WindowsF 9x/NT. When I mount the CD, there is only an audio track available. No& SETUP.EXE program, no doc, no nothing.  " What should I do to watch this CD? Thanks,    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:01:57 -0500n, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD8 Message-ID: <qfbl0tcent3g9jef8nof65mfu6597k3297@4ax.com>  2 On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:18:02 +0100, Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr> wrote:  A >I received recently a gift from a former DEC employee in France.y >lJ >The gift is the 40 years commemoration CD, still packed under cellophane. >sI >The rear side of the box says that it can be used with a PC with Windows G >9x/NT. When I mount the CD, there is only an audio track available. NoM' >SETUP.EXE program, no doc, no nothing.u >"# >What should I do to watch this CD?   @ This CD worked fine for me under Windows 9x/NT.  It does have an installation procedure.     - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)H Fortran Engineering[& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:48:39 +0100h0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr>* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD* Message-ID: <3A0AC757.2AD0243C@Easynet.fr>   Steve Lionel wrote:n > B > This CD worked fine for me under Windows 9x/NT.  It does have an > installation procedure.m  : I used VirtualPC 3.0 for Macintosh. It works fine on a PC. Thank you Steve.   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 16:55:10 GMTc* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD. Message-ID: <8uekte$322$2@info.service.rug.nl>  E In article <qfbl0tcent3g9jef8nof65mfu6597k3297@4ax.com>, Steve Lionelr" <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> writes:   4 > On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:18:02 +0100, Didier Morandi$ > <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr> wrote: > C > >I received recently a gift from a former DEC employee in France.  > > L > >The gift is the 40 years commemoration CD, still packed under cellophane. > > % > >What should I do to watch this CD?I > B > This CD worked fine for me under Windows 9x/NT.  It does have an > installation procedure.a   How can I get a copy of this?A   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:01:50 -0500e, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD8 Message-ID: <t2ml0toman46533bj1rpfpgbbeadf55rbb@4ax.com>  @ On 9 Nov 2000 16:55:10 GMT, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) wrote:  F >In article <qfbl0tcent3g9jef8nof65mfu6597k3297@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel# ><Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> writes:   >y5 >> On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:18:02 +0100, Didier Morandin% >> <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr> wrote:t >> aD >> >I received recently a gift from a former DEC employee in France. >> >M >> >The gift is the 40 years commemoration CD, still packed under cellophane.  >> >& >> >What should I do to watch this CD? >> iC >> This CD worked fine for me under Windows 9x/NT.  It does have anL >> installation procedure. >  >How can I get a copy of this?  % Trust me - it's not worth the effort.e    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)c Fortran Engineeringe& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 17:10:10 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD. Message-ID: <8uelpi$3nj$1@info.service.rug.nl>  E In article <t2ml0toman46533bj1rpfpgbbeadf55rbb@4ax.com>, Steve Lioneln" <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> writes:     > >How can I get a copy of this? > ' > Trust me - it's not worth the effort.$  9 If you can't trust Steve Lionel, whom can you trust.  :-)    OK.   H I enjoyed the "20 Years of VMS" book a while back (I think I downloaded F a copy in PostScript or PDF from Digital's web site) and was thinking # this might be something similar....*   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:56:06 -0500e, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD8 Message-ID: <u9ol0t808ja9g5o1p025ur0npe808c7u2a@4ax.com>  @ On 9 Nov 2000 17:10:10 GMT, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) wrote:  F >In article <t2ml0toman46533bj1rpfpgbbeadf55rbb@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel# ><Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> writes: h > ! >> >How can I get a copy of this?y >> e( >> Trust me - it's not worth the effort. >a: >If you can't trust Steve Lionel, whom can you trust.  :-) >e >OK. >qI >I enjoyed the "20 Years of VMS" book a while back (I think I downloaded dG >a copy in PostScript or PDF from Digital's web site) and was thinking t$ >this might be something similar....  D No - it's just a slide show (with not many slides)  Some audio clipsF and a few AVI files. Ken Olsen appears only as a glimpse in one of theF AVI files. There is also some inane "trivia" game associated with it.   C If you play the CD in a music CD player, it has a version of a songdC originally by Greenday (but performed by some studio artists).  The F song title as shown on the CD is "Time of Your Life", but the originalF Greenday title was "Good Riddance", which amused many of us no end....    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)t Fortran Engineeringe& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 19:26:12 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD. Message-ID: <8uetok$6ve$3@info.service.rug.nl>  E In article <u9ol0t808ja9g5o1p025ur0npe808c7u2a@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel"" <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> writes:   F > No - it's just a slide show (with not many slides)  Some audio clipsH > and a few AVI files. Ken Olsen appears only as a glimpse in one of theH > AVI files. There is also some inane "trivia" game associated with it.   I Err, who can remember the most names under which DEC/Digital/Compaq sold L' a unix operating system?  :-)  :-)  :-)   E > If you play the CD in a music CD player, it has a version of a songFE > originally by Greenday (but performed by some studio artists).  TheoH > song title as shown on the CD is "Time of Your Life", but the originalH > Greenday title was "Good Riddance", which amused many of us no end....  H Reminds me of the discussion when it became known, after Microsoft used D the Stones' "Start Me Up", that R.E.M. had refused an offer (of $15 H million or so) to use one of their songs: no-one knew what the song was.G "Losing my Religion"?  Someone suggested "It's the End of the World as o" We Know it, and I Feel Fine".  :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:45:09 +0000X+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>N* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD' Message-ID: <3A0B1AE5.3BB1F41F@iee.org>    Steve Lionel wrote:?F > No - it's just a slide show (with not many slides)  Some audio clipsH > and a few AVI files. Ken Olsen appears only as a glimpse in one of theG > AVI files. There is also some inane "trivia" game associated with it.'  - But you forget the timeline from the web siteu/ is on there too. For me that was the highlight.s   Antonioe     ---------------.- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgi   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:29:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>v* Subject: Re: DEC 40 years commemoration CD, Message-ID: <3A0B1739.7B217348@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:u) > > Trust me - it's not worth the effort.l > ; > If you can't trust Steve Lionel, whom can you trust.  :-)o  M Ahhh, but it might be a case of the CD showing a picture of Steve Lionel withyF a hair style or beard that would make him look rather silly by today'sM standards ;-) Hence Mr Lionel would have a vested interest in downplaying theD contents of that CD :-) :-) :-)a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 02:18:17 GMT ( From: Jay Olson <jjo@triton.com.no.spam> Subject: Re: DECforms...2 Message-ID: <3A0A08EE.58626E87@triton.com.no.spam>   Kevin Iliff wrote: >  > Hello, > 9 > Are there any DECforms users, or former DECforms users,t8 > monitoring this newsgroup?  Our company is moving from7 > VTs to PCs, so we're looking to replace DECforms withx5 > something more PC compatible.  Does anyone have any@8 > insights as to what our options might be?  Does anyone2 > know of another newsgroup that might be helpful?  E Three of my major clients use DECforms, and have been doing so for 10eH years. They haven't replaced it, even though VT-style terminals are hardC to come by, because it still works fine and nothing better has comeo	 along :).   H If you are comfortable with DECforms and you have an application writtenD using DECforms and your programmers know DECforms, then the sensibleE thing to do is to get some terminal emulator software for the PCs andoF leave the application alone. This applies to any "legacy" software. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.R  H There is an animal called the DECforms Web Connector or some such thing,E and I believe it is included with DECforms. I haven't used it before, C but it seems rather strange to try grafting DECforms into a browser < environment. In my opinion, if you want to go with somethingF browser-based, you need to change your whole user interaction paradigm  (i.e. rewrite your application).  ( 	- Jay Olson (jjo "at" triton "dot" com) 	Triton Software Group LLC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:13:18 -0600u7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>= Subject: Re: DECforms...- Message-ID: <3A0A164E.924431ED@earthlink.net>I   Kevin Iliff wrote: >  > Hello, > I > Are there any DECforms users, or former DECforms users, monitoring this)H > newsgroup?  Our company is moving from VTs to PCs, so we're looking toG > replace DECforms with something more PC compatible.  Does anyone havet1 > any insights as to what our options might be?  t  G Using a decent terminal program (other than the HyperTerm applet), your E DECforms will be as PC friendly and they were VT friendly. This will,aE however, be dependent upon the quality of the VT emulator program youw choose.    -- h David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:16:34 +0000n+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>a* Subject: Re: DECnet 5 -> 4 routing problem' Message-ID: <3A073BD2.B7C66715@iee.org>h   John Santos wrote:  A > We have several Async DECnet circuits to remote sites.  Locallyu@ > they are connected to a DECRouter-250, but we have some serial  9 DECrouter 250, to me at least, implies a Phase IV router. < Can you confirm that (the WANrouter 250 software runs on the same hardware ...)?   B > We can access any of our 3 local nodes from either of the remoteD > nodes, and once we have accessed a particular Alpha from the 6630,@ > we can then make connections back from that Alpha to the 6630,M > but after a while (1/2 hour or so) we start getting "%SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE" B > errors again.  Like it learns how to route, but after a while it
 > forgets.  B Sounds rather like something (i.e. either the DR250 or your Alpha)= is caching an address but timing it out after a while. (There:C is at least one bit of the architecture that does this deliberately2< for performance reasons and causes much fun by "temporarily" hiding misconfigurations ...)l  A Just to ensure that you are not seeing a name resolution problem,C; verify that when SET HOST VAX6330 fails that the equivalentd" SET HOST VAX area.node also fails.  C Next you see a failure you need to see where a particular attempted 2 DECnet connection will go. It's been quite a while5 since I last did this and I don't have anything handyw+ to look at but it goes something like this:   7 1. Start with the correct routing circuit (I'm assumingf7 you only have one since your Alpha is not a router) anda7 look at any adjacency (P-V picks one at random and they 2 should all lead to the same place). You can assume: that if you have an ajacency to the DECrouter 250, it will; be used. If you pick any other Phase V adjacency you shouldR; find that for the specified area, that new node should have.; an adjacency to the DR250 with a "neighbor area" attribute 0 of the expected value.  @ 2. Assuming you get to the DR250 you should then assume that the< packet will be routed into the VAX6620 serial port. This VAX; is running HBR (routing code) so it should realise that the 8 packet is not for itself and look for a routing circuit 2 adjacency with an appropriate end-node address ...0 you should be able to find one for the VAX 6630.  > The alternative is to use TRACE at various points to see where the failure occurs.t  9 Start by tracing ROUTING CIRCUIT your-serial-line on the t6 VAX 6620 (the router) and see if you see the incoming 3 connect-initiate. If you see it, try tracing on then1 VAX 6630 simultaneously to see if it sees the c-i 2 appear. If you don't see anything on the VAX 6620,6 you need to either trace against the DR250 (don't ask,3 I don't remember :-) ) or use a lan analyser to see 4 if the local Alpha sends out a c-i (to anywhere) or ; alternatively to see whether the DR250 receives any packets_ from the ethernet.  B The third approach is to reason that there must be some difference: between the VAX and the Alphas. Perhaps the Alpha nodes do> not have "phase iv enabled" set to true (although I think that7 would kill the incoming side too ... but then a Phase VE5 router on the LAN may magically fix that for incomingP	 packets).n  @ > The only differences between the local node that works and the@ > two that don't are 1) VAX vs. Alpha 2) Router vs. End-node andA > 3) VMS V7.1 vs. VMS V7.2-1.  So I'm worried!  Is Alpha DECnet-V B > broken?  Or will our VAX break when we upgrade to V7.2 (or maybe? > V7.3 if we don't get around to it for a while)?  Or do I justo@ > need to configure the 2 Alpha's to be routers?  Also, why does> > it work fine to the other site, which is also connected by aC > Phase IV area router (DR250, rather than a VAX), but the end node A > is running Phase V?  If the flakey remote site were upgraded to23 > Phase V, would the problems go away or get worse?u  . All software has bugs. As for the rest of your6 questions I think you need to pin down exactly what is7 happening in your configuration ... this could be quiteB4 painful if there is plenty of traffic and you cannot filter out the "noise".q     AntonioP   --     ---------------a- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:29:07 GMTn From: trevor_deja@my-deja.comr$ Subject: DHCP Server Default Route ?) Message-ID: <8u74a9$rvm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>7   Hi  D I can't see how to define Default Route information in the TCPIP 5.0 DHCP server.  G Using the DHCP gui I have set up dynamic IP addressing and this appears G to work ok (a client can grab an address).  However I cannot find where C to define Default Route information so that this can be passed to ap DHCP client.  G There is an IP Parameter 'Static Routes' but this specifically says thenF default route (0.0.0.0) is not permitted.  So I've trawled through theF rest of the params but I can't see anywhere to define a Default route.A  I've read the words, but I think I've gone word blind and I justo cannot find this.o   Help appreciated.    Regards, Trevor-   trevor_deja@my-deja.com0    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:10:14 -060007 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 5 Subject: Re: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sansy- Message-ID: <3A0A1596.5D02852F@earthlink.net>p   "D.Webb" wrote:s > ; > A colleague of mine just pointed out the following url :-x > # > http://www.dafscollaborative.org/n > D > I am probably misreading this entirely but it looks like it may beN > talking about something which was raised here sometime ago - the possibilityG > of having a standard filesystem/security model for multiple operatingnH > systems which would allow multiple systems to access the same files on > SAN based storage. > J > It talks about clustered machines maintaining a table of allowed partnerH > servers, secure user authentication , high performance file and recordJ > locking. Locks being cached in memory and transferred at network speeds.Q > And states it is designed to be resilient in the face of both client and servers > reboots and failures.  >  > The FAQ says > K > "DAFS is designed to allow high speed,fault tolerant, consistent views ofcO > files to a heterogeneous environment of servers that may be running differento > operating systems".T >  > It also says > E > "A refence implementation of DAFS should be available in late 2000.HI > The first commercial implementations are expected in mid 2000 targetingrM > the Sun Solaris, Linux and microsoft windows platforms with others expected 
 > to follow".  > N > Is this something Compaq is aware of ? Will there be implementations for VMS
 > and Tru64 ?r  G Well, remember the speed at which "new and trendy" stuff finds it's waynH into Tru64 and OpenVMS. We often see complaints about Java versions, for example.   -- l David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsC http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 13:06:11 GMT.' From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)i5 Subject: Re: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sanse0 Message-ID: <8ue7g3$aua$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  g In article <3A0A1596.5D02852F@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:n >"D.Webb" wrote: >> 9< >> A colleague of mine just pointed out the following url :- >>  $ >> http://www.dafscollaborative.org/ >> -E >> I am probably misreading this entirely but it looks like it may betO >> talking about something which was raised here sometime ago - the possibilitytH >> of having a standard filesystem/security model for multiple operatingI >> systems which would allow multiple systems to access the same files one >> SAN based storage.. >>  K >> It talks about clustered machines maintaining a table of allowed partner0I >> servers, secure user authentication , high performance file and record>K >> locking. Locks being cached in memory and transferred at network speeds.>R >> And states it is designed to be resilient in the face of both client and server >> reboots and failures. >> cO >> Is this something Compaq is aware of ? Will there be implementations for VMSe >> and Tru64 ? >oH >Well, remember the speed at which "new and trendy" stuff finds it's wayI >into Tru64 and OpenVMS. We often see complaints about Java versions, fora	 >example.n >    True. However   9 1) VMS engineering are supposed to be looking at new fileo    system support for VMS.J 2) This product appears to be touching on the some of the key features of &    VMS (ie clustering, record locking)N 3) It uses an underlying technology (the VI - Virtual Interface architecture) ?    which is apparently supported by Intel, Microsoft and COMPAQo  I Given the above I would hope that Compaq would access this technology and N (assuming my reading of it is not incorrect) then would get involved so as to 5 make sure that this product would work well with VMS. N Getting involved at an early stage would allow Compaq to influence the shapingH of the product to support VMS rather than having to later cope with bad ; (from a VMS implementation point of view) design decisions.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 17:02:13 -0500' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>25 Subject: Re: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sans ( Message-ID: <8uf72i$bvs$1@pyrite.mv.net>  2 D.Webb <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message* news:8ue7g3$aua$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk...C > In article <3A0A1596.5D02852F@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera"a% <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:m > >"D.Webb" wrote: > >>> > >> A colleague of mine just pointed out the following url :- > >>& > >> http://www.dafscollaborative.org/ > >>G > >> I am probably misreading this entirely but it looks like it may belE > >> talking about something which was raised here sometime ago - theo possibility J > >> of having a standard filesystem/security model for multiple operatingK > >> systems which would allow multiple systems to access the same files onh > >> SAN based storage.,  I Thanks.  I'm a bit surprised I hadn't yet caught wind of this.  And it istI indeed exactly the kind of thing I was proposing here (and, later, in the A Tru64 newsgroup after no interest here was apparent) a while ago.m   > >>E > >> It talks about clustered machines maintaining a table of alloweda partnerrK > >> servers, secure user authentication , high performance file and record:E > >> locking. Locks being cached in memory and transferred at networko speeds.:I > >> And states it is designed to be resilient in the face of both client 
 and server > >> reboots and failures. > >>I > >> Is this something Compaq is aware of ? Will there be implementations4 for VMSS > >> and Tru64 ? > >oJ > >Well, remember the speed at which "new and trendy" stuff finds it's wayK > >into Tru64 and OpenVMS. We often see complaints about Java versions, fori > >example.f > >  >V > True. However  >o; > 1) VMS engineering are supposed to be looking at new filen >    system support for VMS.K > 2) This product appears to be touching on the some of the key features of ( >    VMS (ie clustering, record locking)A > 3) It uses an underlying technology (the VI - Virtual Interfacee
 architecture)oA >    which is apparently supported by Intel, Microsoft and COMPAQL >"K > Given the above I would hope that Compaq would access this technology andfL > (assuming my reading of it is not incorrect) then would get involved so as to7 > make sure that this product would work well with VMS.sH > Getting involved at an early stage would allow Compaq to influence the shapingeI > of the product to support VMS rather than having to later cope with bado= > (from a VMS implementation point of view) design decisions.-  C Being an interested on-looker rather than an initiator is usually aoI considerably less influential position to occupy, but they might help the  definition avoid major gaffes.  J But in any event, if Dafs does become a successful standard, supporting it+ on VMS will be significant to VMS's future.i   - bill   >a > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:19:20 -0500' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>h5 Subject: Re: Direct access filesystem - clusters/sans.( Message-ID: <8ufpl8$obr$1@pyrite.mv.net>  0 Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:8uf72i$bvs$1@pyrite.mv.net...   ...z  K > Thanks.  I'm a bit surprised I hadn't yet caught wind of this.  And it is K > indeed exactly the kind of thing I was proposing here (and, later, in therC > Tru64 newsgroup after no interest here was apparent) a while ago.L  H Or not, as it turns out on closer reading.  Dafs appears merely to be anD improved (use of VI should provide lower-latency, less-CPU-intensiveF communication) NFS/CIFS replacement (assuming it provides their accessL semantics), not the kind of 'heterogeneous file system cluster' product withC coordinated direct-to-disk sharing that I was advocating.  Ho, hum.8   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:19:59 -0600-7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> : Subject: Re: Disk write-back cache - how do I turn it off?- Message-ID: <3A0B695F.5A42230F@earthlink.net>s  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:  >  > cc:w > bcc:N > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza > / > Disk write-back cache - how do I turn it off?D > 	 > Hi all,n > Q > We are having some problems here with file corruptions related to Oracle files.sI > Oracle have suggested that we turn off write-back caching on the disks.u > Q > I have turned off write-back cache on the controllers (HSZ70s) but am unsure astO > to how I mount the disk - or set the volume - so that write-back cache is nota0 > enabled as shown if you do a SHOW DEVICE/FULL; > L > Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, write-back caching enabled. > Q > I had a look throught the MOUNT and SET VOLUME help, but couldn't find anything K > - not to say it isn't there somewhere - so if someone could help, I would  > appreciate it. > P > Does the above output segment from SHOW DEVICE mean just that write-back cacheO > is enabled, or does it mean that it is both enabled and in use? Or have I got O > the wrong end of the stick because I'm now too tired to grasp things I shouldn
 > know...?  ( DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ help mount /cache key   MOUNT      /CACHE       Keywords   	[snip]          WRITETHROUGH  G          Disables writeback caching, which writes only the file headers,H          of files open for write when the files are closed. Thus, if youF          specify the WRITETHROUGH keyword, file headers are written to thei-          disk on every file header operation.    Which would imply:   $ MOUNT/CACHE=NOWRITETHROUGH   ...might be worth a try.   -- ? David J. Dachterav dba DJE SystemsC http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:48:50 +0800f4 From: Dave Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>: Subject: Re: Disk write-back cache - how do I turn it off?+ Message-ID: <3A0B7022.3D206351@bigpond.com>n   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > ' > Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:a > >p > > cc:  > > bcc:P > > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza > > 1 > > Disk write-back cache - how do I turn it off?o > >0 > > Hi all,0 > >rS > > We are having some problems here with file corruptions related to Oracle files.mK > > Oracle have suggested that we turn off write-back caching on the disks.  > >aS > > I have turned off write-back cache on the controllers (HSZ70s) but am unsure aseQ > > to how I mount the disk - or set the volume - so that write-back cache is not 2 > > enabled as shown if you do a SHOW DEVICE/FULL; > >eN > > Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, write-back caching enabled. > >iS > > I had a look throught the MOUNT and SET VOLUME help, but couldn't find anything3M > > - not to say it isn't there somewhere - so if someone could help, I woulde > > appreciate it. > >)R > > Does the above output segment from SHOW DEVICE mean just that write-back cacheQ > > is enabled, or does it mean that it is both enabled and in use? Or have I got Q > > the wrong end of the stick because I'm now too tired to grasp things I shouldh > > know...? > * > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ help mount /cache key >  > MOUNT  > 
 >   /CACHE >  >     Keywords >  >         [snip] >  >       WRITETHROUGH > I >          Disables writeback caching, which writes only the file headers J >          of files open for write when the files are closed. Thus, if youH >          specify the WRITETHROUGH keyword, file headers are written to > the / >          disk on every file header operation.q >  > Which would imply: >  > $ MOUNT/CACHE=NOWRITETHROUGH >  > ...might be worth a try. >  > -- > David J. Dachterat  * The WRITETHROUGH keyword is not negatable.H On one system here, with a built in RAID controller, 4 disks, all JBODs,F the system disk has write-through caching enabled, all the others haveG write-back caching enabled.  I have not found a way to mount the others5# with write-through caching enabled.o   -- a Regards, Dave.uI -------------------------------------------------------------------------aI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comaI DBS software at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmaI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon(   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 02:39:05 +0100l2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)0 Subject: Re: Downloading FDL files from FTP site; Message-ID: <3a021739.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   & Guard Hewitt (guearsdi@aol.com) wrote:L : We have run into problems with customers downloading FDL files off our FTPF : site using a browser. The only way we've found to download the filesK : correctly is using the GET/FDL command from VMS. Is there a way to zip orh> : package these files so they make it off the FTP site intact?  5 You can find Info-ZIP's ZIP and UNZIP for VMS e.g. at'> http://www2.wku.edu/vms/fileserv  and  http://www.tmk.com/ftp/  H This ZIP program has a switch ("-V") to store record attributes, so that" UNZIP under VMS can restore those.  L Using the supplied UNZIPSFX, you can even build self-extracting executables.   cu,h   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de.N One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:52:47 -0600e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>A0 Subject: Re: Downloading FDL files from FTP site- Message-ID: <3A02368F.EE825E4D@earthlink.net>d   Guard Hewitt wrote:o > L > We have run into problems with customers downloading FDL files off our FTPF > site using a browser. The only way we've found to download the filesK > correctly is using the GET/FDL command from VMS. Is there a way to zip ors> > package these files so they make it off the FTP site intact?  , ZIP is the safeest, most reliable way, IMHO.   --   David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 19:58:33 -0600 (CST)$ From: sms@antinode.orgO Subject: Downloading software [was: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 services]r) Message-ID: <00110919583353@antinode.org>n  * From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)  K > TCPIP is an huge package and DEC/Q never offered a VMS commercial productaI > for downloading so far. Only ECOs (where sometimes an ECO is a completer > installation kit)... > : > btw: Why not ? They are all LMF secured, so why bother ?K > Is is a bandwidth/webserver issue ? No, it seems only politics, but why ?IM > Only to get money for the VMS ConDist CDs (which are extremly overpriced) ?n  D    Yeah, what he said.  As an example, Sun has a "Try & Buy" programH (which always reminds me of the discount store on The Simpsons, the "TryH 'n' Save"), where after a moderately tedious registration procedure, youF can suck down some of the latest stuff they have (if your network linkH is fast enough to escape the download timeouts).  Some of these kits areG quite large, such as "http://www.sun.com/forte/cplusplus/buy.html", theoF C/C++ package which appears to be on the order of 500MB, in 15 parts. E (Better compression would have helped a little.)  They use FLEXlm forg? license enforcement, with a free 30-day demo available on-line.h  E    I keep wondering how much money the Compaq folks think that they'dtH lose in sales if they did things like this.  They'll certainly never getE much from the likes of me in any case, but it would be interesting totB know how they analyze the business case (if they _do_ analyze it).  A    On a slightly related topic, Sun now appears to use ZIP on itsoF downloadable patch kits, and Solaris seems to supply an Info-ZIP UnZipD program (version 5.32, "/usr/bin/unzip"), at least since SunOS 5.7.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)rG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)a9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 07:54:48 +0100m? From: Fim =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=E4stberg?= <fim.wastberg@fimator.se>s, Subject: Re: Dynamic strings using VAX COBOL* Message-ID: <3A026138.4D0509B8@fimator.se>  ; What problem are you trying to solve with dynamic string ??e# Med vnliga hlsningar/Best regardsa
 FIMATOR AB Fim Wstberg CPIMn   deja_foo@my-deja.com wrote:t  / > I've been checking out creating and accessing., > dynamic strings using LIB$SGET1_DD and the/ > LIB$SCOPY / STR$COPY family of routines. I've 2 > seen samples in a few languages but haven't seen$ > a COBOL (VAX or Alpha) sample yet. >S2 > Anyone have a COBOL sample showing how to create/ > a dynamic string, load it with the value of ar0 > working-storage field, and maybe even copy the- > value of the dynamic string back to another  > working-storage field? >r( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.1   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 07:59:04 -0500 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>4 Subject: E10000 system problems continue in the news* Message-ID: <3A040818.A90FE2C4@oracle.com>  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/14475.html 1 Sun's Oz super computer goes horribly pear shapedu By: John Lettice Posted: 03/11/2000 at 19:17 GMTl  < More informative reading here too.  The text starts with the. following (entire article is on the web site):  H A terse note at the site of APAC, the outfit running Australia's bid "to: be recognised as an 'advanced computing' country," reveals; something deeply embarrasing for one of the industry's most F prominent pushers of gigafloppery. It says: "The initial configuration< of the APAC peak computing system failed acceptance tests in= September 2000, so the process of acquiring a system has been>D restarted. It's hoped there will be a system available by the second quarter of 2001."   E So who blew it? Well, in a release in August Sun Microsystems (for it @ is they) revealed that it had "joined forces with the Australian? Partnership for Advanced Computing (APAC) to install a powerfulo8 computing system for Australian researchers and industry@ professionals. The system will be installed in the APAC NationalA Facility at the Australian National University, which is the hostV institution for APAC."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 08:42:44 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>% Subject: Re: eBay (guess what) again. * Message-ID: <3A027A84.7FE5E728@uk.sun.com>   John Santos wrote: > - > On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Terry C. Shannon wrote:o >  > >n@ > > "Jordan Henderson" <jordan@lisa.gemair.com> wrote in message( > > news:8ts3ap$vdh$1@lisa.gemair.com...0 > > > In article <3A016143.F178C010@uk.sun.com>,8 > > > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > >o
 > > <snip> > > > C > > > >I have not bothered detailing the depths of your FUD attempteA > > > >with respect to Sun and Java but as I keep saying you need  > > > >to get more mirror time.m > > > >p > > > A > > > I'm glad you brought up Java again.  Because your post here @ > > > where you said that the Java available for OpenVMS is JavaB > > > "yes and no" is a classic example of FUD, which I countered.C > > > There's little doubt that for the best, most up-to-date, Javas@ > > > almost everyone will tell you that Sun is the place to go.> > > > Using this fact against competitors is a pure, classical > > > FUD technique. > >6K > > One wonders if Java ultimately will bite Solaris in the backside. Sun's H > > claim to fame in the Unix space (and rightfully so) is the humongousO > > boatload of apps available on Solaris. Tru64 of course pales in comparison,>6 > > and apps availability hath cost the Q many a sale. > >mL > > OK, what's gonna happen if and when ISVs start writing their key apps inM > > Java? If Java is write-once, run-anywhere, and Compaq, et al, have decente? > > Java implementations, apps availability many no longer be ac > > platform-dependent issue.N > C > No problem.  Sun has an easy work-around.  Every 6-8 months, they E > release a new version of Java (with an obfuscated version numberinghA > scheme to make it hard to tell what's going on) that is neithersB > upward nor downward compatible with the previous version.  Since@ > it takes 6-8 months for all the other vendors to catch up, SunB > always has the latest and greatest Java implementation and everyB > one else is second best.  The lack of compatibility ensures that? > you can't just recompile your Java sources on the new releaseoA > (God forbid you copy over your .class files), but have to checkI( > everything out, forcing further delay. > > Lets address a few major inccuracies shall we (are you Jordans alter ego).h  A Firstly Java applications written for say 1.1.X do run on 1.2 and @ 1.3, I run a whole load of them. Some don't for example between  1.1.X and 1.2 RMI changed.  B Backwards compatibility is also possible, you need to be carefull 7 about not using new interfaces but again it does work. p  < Secondly major releases of the JVM do not come out every 6-81 months its currently running at about 1 per year.   ; Thirdly Sun does not have a time to market lead over other e; platforms because we are the origionator of Java. The proofd7 of this is that IBM AIX generally has the most current w8 production JVM at about the same time as Solaris as does< Linux. And before you go down the Jordan route, Sun supplies< the JVM code to Backdown as we do to all the other suppliers9 they just seem to be quicker off the mark than some othere0 vendors at getting it ported to their target OS.  9 So much for Sun having the latest and greatest JVM first.m  < So if this is a whine about Solaris having an advantage over: OpenVMS/Tru64 because it has more current versions of the = JVM (which we do) then your whine is missdirected, you shouldh: be addressing your whine at Compaq who are the reason why  this is the case.u   Regardsa Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:13:16 GMT + From: Jordan Henderson <jordan@my-deja.com>-% Subject: Re: eBay (guess what) again.,) Message-ID: <8tvus9$hbd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d  * In article <3A028288.1E81087D@uk.sun.com>,3   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:l >b@ > > "Jordan Henderson" <jordan@lisa.gemair.com> wrote in message( > > news:8ts3ap$vdh$1@lisa.gemair.com...0 > > > In article <3A016143.F178C010@uk.sun.com>,8 > > > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > > 
 > > <snip> > > >oC > > > >I have not bothered detailing the depths of your FUD attempteA > > > >with respect to Sun and Java but as I keep saying you need  > > > >to get more mirror time.b > > > >r > > >sA > > > I'm glad you brought up Java again.  Because your post heret@ > > > where you said that the Java available for OpenVMS is JavaB > > > "yes and no" is a classic example of FUD, which I countered.C > > > There's little doubt that for the best, most up-to-date, Javah@ > > > almost everyone will tell you that Sun is the place to go.> > > > Using this fact against competitors is a pure, classical > > > FUD technique. > >: >:; > Sorry Jordan, you are getting stuck in familiar territory3; > namely objecting to a factual statement because you don'tc< > like its implications and then callinmg the statement FUD.  4 Sorry Andrew, you are stuck in familiar territory by5 restating your absurd and untenable position that FUD 5 and falsehood are in some way related to one another.i  7 Because you are always careful to avoid my best points,g: I'll copy intothis article my previous careful explanation of what FUD is:   ) I said in <8ts3ap$vdh$1@lisa.gemair.com>:0 >b> >As I pointed out, but you apparently don't understand (or are> >taking a pose of ignorance so as to forward your agenda), FUD= >and fact are orthogonal to one another.  FUD typically has arB >grain of fact, taken out of context, used in isolation from otherA >facts, presented with some spin to bring about Fear, Uncertainty  >and Doubt in the reader.h > B >I redirect your attention to the history of the term FUD.  It wasA >invented by Gary Amdahl, in description to what IBM was doing toc> >his customers.  It just so happened that much of what IBM was< >saying was true, you couldn't expect as good support on IBMC >operating systems when using Amdahl machines, the future of AmdahlCB >as a vendor was not as secure as IBM, etc. etc.  The problem with? >this kind of FUD is that it's designed to create an atmospherea= >where the statements are even more true than they once were.p >f  = Now, please define FUD for me, so I can understand what it isy= when you say it?  From what I can tell about your definition, : it's at odds with the history and present use of the term.  A You seem to think that FUD is just "lies".  If I wanted to accuse B you of lying, I would have no trouble dredging up several examples? of you doing this, and in each case, I called you a liar, not ap; FUDster.  You use both lies and FUD to tear down Compaq andn? OpenVMS.  Sometimes you use lies to produce FUD, sometimes, youe@ just lie and sometimes you use carefully chosen facts, taken out> of context, in isolation or spun appropriately to produce FUD.   >e> > The orgional Java posting I put out was factual, most of you9 > refutal was not, you for example complained that I usedb: > Linux as an example of a platform that had 1.3 available9 > for it. In case you hadn't worked it out Blackdown port3> > the JVM code to Linux in the same way as Compaq do to Tru64. >y  < I pointed out in the other post, quite factually, that among; VENDORS, only IBM and Sun have provided the 1.3 release.  It4 don't consider the Blackdown group a vendor, do you?  ; > And for some reason, presumably because it destroyed youroA > argument completely you refused to accept that the availabilityc> > of 1.3 on AIX at around the same time as the Solaris version> > was clear evidence that the Java playing field is not biased > towards Sun. >a  ; And yet, you admit in another posting that the Java playing ; field _is_ definitely biased towards Sun due to association > with the Java brand and Sun.  This is what I mean about taking& facts out of context and in isolation.  7 > And you totally blew your chances of not appearing toU9 > be anything other than a FUDSTER when I said that theres7 > havn't been any examples of Sun's loading the dice in > > our favour, your reply was "yet". Pure FUD, pure supposition9 > and three letter as well. I congratulate you on blowingd" > it with 3 letters pretty clever. >e  = Oh, yes, I'm the master FUDSTER, using 3 letters to tear downuA Sun.  Very clever.  Ignore for a moment that I was just repeating > what you had just said, ignore that it's absolutely TRUE, that@ Sun hasn't done this "yet..." (wait a minute are you saying that= a carefully spun fact can be used as FUD????  You're amazing,e@ you can't be consistent even in a single post!), ignore that I'm< just reiterating what many many have brought up as concerns,< long before I used those magic three letters (URL references available on request)...  B Also, ignore the fact that FUD is directed to scare customers awayC from a product.  If I had an agenda to do this, I might hang aroundrA in comp.os.solaris and say these things, but I don't...  Hmmmm...e# You might want to go find a mirror.d  	 > RegardsD > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architectn >e   -- -Jordan Hendersonr jordan@greenapple.comd    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:58:29 +0100-= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>o% Subject: Re: eBay (guess what) again.b) Message-ID: <3A0680C5.5D70CB1B@gtech.com>    andrew harrison wrote:I > Nor is your point very relevant since it isn't Sun who have been makingmC > performance claims for 64bit and VLM it was Digtal at a time when C > as you have so reasonably pointed out they didn't have a box thattD > could make any sort of use of it. I think this is what people call > marketing B***S**T.4 > C > The GS320 does support 256 GB so does that mean that in your view:D > 5 years after the start of the 64bit VLM marketing campaign CompaqC > does now finally have a box which could show the benefits of VLM.d > B > And as for tuning at the moment Compaq have in effect carved theB > GS320 up into 8 separate nodes each with 32 GB of RAM by running@ > OPS in a box to get their current TPC-C TPM number. So you are0 > sort of right, they do have much more to tune.   ????  H I do not konow what 2^32 are calculated to at a SUN box, but on Compaq's: boxes it is 4 GB. And also on Compaq's boxes 4 GB < 14 GB.  6 But OK I guess we have just another case of FUD here !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:12:40 +0000|0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>% Subject: Re: eBay (guess what) again.t* Message-ID: <3A0702A8.C05F6F95@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:  > , > In article <3A028288.1E81087D@uk.sun.com>,5 >   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  > >0B > > > "Jordan Henderson" <jordan@lisa.gemair.com> wrote in message* > > > news:8ts3ap$vdh$1@lisa.gemair.com...2 > > > > In article <3A016143.F178C010@uk.sun.com>,: > > > > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > > >p > > > <snip> > > > >dE > > > > >I have not bothered detailing the depths of your FUD attemptwC > > > > >with respect to Sun and Java but as I keep saying you needm! > > > > >to get more mirror time.p	 > > > > >k > > > > C > > > > I'm glad you brought up Java again.  Because your post here B > > > > where you said that the Java available for OpenVMS is JavaD > > > > "yes and no" is a classic example of FUD, which I countered.E > > > > There's little doubt that for the best, most up-to-date, JavaeB > > > > almost everyone will tell you that Sun is the place to go.@ > > > > Using this fact against competitors is a pure, classical > > > > FUD technique. > > >a > >i= > > Sorry Jordan, you are getting stuck in familiar territoryg= > > namely objecting to a factual statement because you don't0> > > like its implications and then callinmg the statement FUD. > 6 > Sorry Andrew, you are stuck in familiar territory by7 > restating your absurd and untenable position that FUD 7 > and falsehood are in some way related to one another.e >   0 Nice try but your argument would be a whole lot 5 more convincing if you hadn't tried to unsucessfully s1 challenge the factual basis of my statements. You 1 obviously felt that the way to defeat FUD was to o/ disprove the statments supporting it. You have  . shown by your own posts that there is a direct' relationship between FUD and falsehood.e  3 Of course the very best FUD has some factual basis a0 to it, but the operative word is some, you were - unable to disprove any of my statements were i you.    9 > Because you are always careful to avoid my best points,r< > I'll copy intothis article my previous careful explanation > of what FUD is:e >   8 It was a very carefull, very detailed description which 4 ignored one very tiny but very enormously important 5 point which is that FUD particularly in this group is 8 used as an attempt to suggest that the person publishing; the aledged FUD is lying. It does not matter how carefully E; you construct your definition, its the useage that matters.b  ? > Now, please define FUD for me, so I can understand what it is ? > when you say it?  From what I can tell about your definition,T< > it's at odds with the history and present use of the term. >   8 Certainly, FUD is a sweeping convenient label for you to? use to try to dismiss a series of facts that you are completelyt unable to refute.   8 Thats not what FUD really is but that is how you use the8 term, it doesn't matter how carefully you construct the ) definition its your useage that matters. 5  = I agree with your definition entirely, the best FUD contains -@ a tiny grain of truth wrapped in supposition etc etc, but thats % not how you use the definition is it.i    C > You seem to think that FUD is just "lies".  If I wanted to accuse1D > you of lying, I would have no trouble dredging up several examplesA > of you doing this, and in each case, I called you a liar, not a-= > FUDster.  You use both lies and FUD to tear down Compaq andsA > OpenVMS.  Sometimes you use lies to produce FUD, sometimes, younB > just lie and sometimes you use carefully chosen facts, taken out@ > of context, in isolation or spun appropriately to produce FUD. >   < No I don't think FUD is lies it is however the accepted view in this group particular.m   > >t@ > > The orgional Java posting I put out was factual, most of you; > > refutal was not, you for example complained that I usedl< > > Linux as an example of a platform that had 1.3 available; > > for it. In case you hadn't worked it out Blackdown porte@ > > the JVM code to Linux in the same way as Compaq do to Tru64. > >  > > > I pointed out in the other post, quite factually, that among= > VENDORS, only IBM and Sun have provided the 1.3 release.  It6 > don't consider the Blackdown group a vendor, do you? > ; Perhaps you can explain what leads you to this theory. They > port and test Java and then provide it to the Linux Community.  A Sun/IBM port and test Java and then provide it to the Solaris/AIX  communities.  = Compaq port and test Java and provide it to the Tru64/OpenVMSk comunities.4  F Blackdown don't charge for their JVM, Sun, Compaq and IBM don't charge for their JVM's.  ; Blackdown have to do exactly what Sun, Compaq, IBM, HP etc  8 have to do to get a JVM out of the door. So how do they > do it if according to you the playing field is slanted in the  wrong direction.  : Your dismissal of them as a "vendor" is simply convenient 9 to your argument isn't it but has not other basis in factm its just more spin.r  = > > And for some reason, presumably because it destroyed yourAC > > argument completely you refused to accept that the availabilityo@ > > of 1.3 on AIX at around the same time as the Solaris version@ > > was clear evidence that the Java playing field is not biased > > towards Sun. > >e > = > And yet, you admit in another posting that the Java playinga= > field _is_ definitely biased towards Sun due to association @ > with the Java brand and Sun.  This is what I mean about taking( > facts out of context and in isolation. >   B Of course I doubt anyone would dispute that. But then that wasn't C your argument was it, you were arguing that there was something in tA the Java standardisation process that gave Sun an advantage over  - other vendors when it comes to new releases.    : Stick with the argument you were trying to win don't start8 another one, you are exhibiting symptoms of spin at its 
 very best.  @ As a matter of interest though do Compaqs Java porting and test B engineers have a harder job because Sun's name is associated with  Java ? $    9 > > And you totally blew your chances of not appearing tok; > > be anything other than a FUDSTER when I said that there 9 > > havn't been any examples of Sun's loading the dice ind@ > > our favour, your reply was "yet". Pure FUD, pure supposition; > > and three letter as well. I congratulate you on blowingo$ > > it with 3 letters pretty clever. > >' > ? > Oh, yes, I'm the master FUDSTER, using 3 letters to tear downrC > Sun.  Very clever.  Ignore for a moment that I was just repeatingd@ > what you had just said, ignore that it's absolutely TRUE, thatB > Sun hasn't done this "yet..." (wait a minute are you saying that? > a carefully spun fact can be used as FUD????  You're amazing,nB > you can't be consistent even in a single post!), ignore that I'm> > just reiterating what many many have brought up as concerns,> > long before I used those magic three letters (URL references > available on request)... > D Wow what a great argument, on this basis anyone can predict anythingF and just because it hasn't happened yet but could happen it isn't FUD.  : Jordan on this basis you need to take back every response : you have ever made when for example someone has suggested ; that OpenVMS might die, Alpha might die, you didn't accuse t: them of FUD did you, lets hope not because that would have6 been wrong of you wouldn't it because it could happen.     RegardsE Andrew Harrisont Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 21:44:32 -0500i/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) % Subject: Re: eBay (guess what) again.h* Message-ID: <8u7qag$oto$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <3A0702A8.C05F6F95@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >> i- >> In article <3A028288.1E81087D@uk.sun.com>,e6 >>   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >> >C >> > > "Jordan Henderson" <jordan@lisa.gemair.com> wrote in messaget+ >> > > news:8ts3ap$vdh$1@lisa.gemair.com...e3 >> > > > In article <3A016143.F178C010@uk.sun.com>,w; >> > > > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >> > >
 >> > > <snip>o >> > > >F >> > > > >I have not bothered detailing the depths of your FUD attemptD >> > > > >with respect to Sun and Java but as I keep saying you need" >> > > > >to get more mirror time.
 >> > > > > >> > > >D >> > > > I'm glad you brought up Java again.  Because your post hereC >> > > > where you said that the Java available for OpenVMS is JavaeE >> > > > "yes and no" is a classic example of FUD, which I countered.lF >> > > > There's little doubt that for the best, most up-to-date, JavaC >> > > > almost everyone will tell you that Sun is the place to go. A >> > > > Using this fact against competitors is a pure, classical  >> > > > FUD technique.s >> > > >> >> >> > Sorry Jordan, you are getting stuck in familiar territory> >> > namely objecting to a factual statement because you don't? >> > like its implications and then callinmg the statement FUD.s >>  7 >> Sorry Andrew, you are stuck in familiar territory byi8 >> restating your absurd and untenable position that FUD8 >> and falsehood are in some way related to one another. >>   >m1 >Nice try but your argument would be a whole lot a6 >more convincing if you hadn't tried to unsucessfully 2 >challenge the factual basis of my statements. You2 >obviously felt that the way to defeat FUD was to 0 >disprove the statments supporting it. You have / >shown by your own posts that there is a direct)( >relationship between FUD and falsehood. >a  0 I don't know what you are talking about here.  I2 often successfully challenge the factual nature of what you have to say here.    2 I've spent literally weeks pointing out how you've3 used facts taken out of context, in isolation, spun13 just so, to produce FUD.  Now, you say that I'M then. one who is giving creedence to this untenable 4 position that there is a direct relationship between FUD and falsehood?  4 >Of course the very best FUD has some factual basis 1 >to it, but the operative word is some, you were  . >unable to disprove any of my statements were  >you.  >   3 Which statements are you referring to specifically? 3 I don't really remember you making statements that "0 could be directly refuted.  You make statements 0 assertions like "the Java you find on OpenVMS is1 'Java'... yes and no".  There's a kernel of truth 0 there, there's a way of looking at it that makes2 this statement in some way "true", yes, but really3 it's just FUD, just meant to drive people away frome" thinking of using Java on OpenVMS.  2 While the best FUD may have a kernel of truth, the. very best is made in such a way that can't be . directly refuted.  So, I'm not sure what facts I'm contradicting you about.  : >> Because you are always careful to avoid my best points,= >> I'll copy intothis article my previous careful explanation  >> of what FUD is: >> i >y9 >It was a very carefull, very detailed description which f5 >ignored one very tiny but very enormously important d6 >point which is that FUD particularly in this group is9 >used as an attempt to suggest that the person publishinga< >the aledged FUD is lying. It does not matter how carefully < >you construct your definition, its the useage that matters. >u  : This is incredible!  YOU are the only person in this group; ,or anywhere that I've found, who has forwarded the opinioni0 that FUD is lying.  I've never used it that way.  @ >> Now, please define FUD for me, so I can understand what it is@ >> when you say it?  From what I can tell about your definition,= >> it's at odds with the history and present use of the term.n >> p > 9 >Certainly, FUD is a sweeping convenient label for you tol@ >use to try to dismiss a series of facts that you are completely >unable to refute.   >b  = Which series of facts?  You mean, like all the facts you spunmB to backup your pure FUD that Java on OpenVMS is Java "yes and no".  = I could throw out a similar volley of facts that would backupa< the contention that the Java available on OpenVMS _is_ Java,9 but that would just fall into your trap.  You said it wasf; Java "yes and no", a half truth used to produce FUD.  If I I8 had been attacking your "facts", then maybe this absurd ; claim that I have been using FUD and falsehood equivalentlyc would be justified.i  : No, if you go back and actually look at the record, you'll9 find that I worked to show how your "facts" were actually,  all just part of a FUD campaign.  9 >Thats not what FUD really is but that is how you use the 9 >term, it doesn't matter how carefully you construct the  * >definition its your useage that matters.  >,> >I agree with your definition entirely, the best FUD contains A >a tiny grain of truth wrapped in supposition etc etc, but thats e& >not how you use the definition is it. >t >aD >> You seem to think that FUD is just "lies".  If I wanted to accuseE >> you of lying, I would have no trouble dredging up several examplesoB >> of you doing this, and in each case, I called you a liar, not a> >> FUDster.  You use both lies and FUD to tear down Compaq andB >> OpenVMS.  Sometimes you use lies to produce FUD, sometimes, youC >> just lie and sometimes you use carefully chosen facts, taken outtA >> of context, in isolation or spun appropriately to produce FUD.t >> h >a= >No I don't think FUD is lies it is however the accepted viewy >in this group particular. >t0 After all these many many weeks of poking fun at: me for "confusing fact and FUD" that you've come around to
 this view.  < You accept my definition, do you?  Well, that's interesting,3 because in article <39CF7C81.C43D3012@uk.sun.com> :g  P http://x58.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=673931236&CONTEXT=973549013.1792475208&hitnum=2   You said, and I quote:  ?   "So sorry if you call this FUD then you really are in troublep;    you see in my book FUD is untrue, and making a statementl    that is true cannot be FUD."y  > I'm sorry, Andrew, it's getting increasingly difficult to take? anything you have to say seriously.  What appears to me to havej? happened here is that I've completely exposed you as a spreaderl> of the worst kind of FUD here, I've done it carefully and I've? backed up my arguments with references.  Then, when backed into'< this corner you say that you accept my definition of FUD and> try to say that it is I who has been using it wrong all along.7 So, you don't think FUD is lies... Interesting that in e  @ As I said above, this is simply incredible.  This is exactly the? point that I've been making for weeks, that you've poked fun atI> by saying that I have a problem separating FUD and facts.  You are all over the place.g  A Well, I guess now we've finally gotten you to accept the standard B definition of FUD.  Perhaps next we can get you to admit that your? postings here are almost 100% FUD and hopefully shame you into oA reform.  After all, we wouldn't want Sun identified with the same-@ underhanded marketing tricks that are held in such contempt when Microsoft exercises them.v   >> >A >> > The orgional Java posting I put out was factual, most of you0< >> > refutal was not, you for example complained that I used= >> > Linux as an example of a platform that had 1.3 availablen< >> > for it. In case you hadn't worked it out Blackdown portA >> > the JVM code to Linux in the same way as Compaq do to Tru64.e >> > >> t? >> I pointed out in the other post, quite factually, that among > >> VENDORS, only IBM and Sun have provided the 1.3 release.  I7 >> don't consider the Blackdown group a vendor, do you?h >> r< >Perhaps you can explain what leads you to this theory. They? >port and test Java and then provide it to the Linux Community.s >rB >Sun/IBM port and test Java and then provide it to the Solaris/AIX
 >communities.n >s> >Compaq port and test Java and provide it to the Tru64/OpenVMS >comunities. > G >Blackdown don't charge for their JVM, Sun, Compaq and IBM don't charge? >for their JVM's.w >a< >Blackdown have to do exactly what Sun, Compaq, IBM, HP etc 9 >have to do to get a JVM out of the door. So how do they  ? >do it if according to you the playing field is slanted in the - >wrong direction.- >-; >Your dismissal of them as a "vendor" is simply convenient r: >to your argument isn't it but has not other basis in fact >its just more spin. >   9 I dunno.  Most people don't call a loose confederation of ; Internet developers a vendor.  Are the members of the Linuxr9 Kernel mailing list a vendor headed by Linus Torvalds?  Ia9 don't think most people would agree that they were.  Now, * RedHat or VA Systems, _those_ are vendors.  8 I'm sorry I've been careful with my terminology and this4 gives you some trouble in understanding what I mean.  9 In any case, only IBM and Sun have produced ports of Javai; in lockstep.  Blackdown just got 1.3 out in late September.S  : Vendors other than Sun have their own reasons for bringing> things out when they will.  Seeing as everyone recognizes that: Sun has this big mindshare advantage in the Sun realm, it 8 doesn't exactly behoove the rest of the vendors to knock: themselves out just to give Sun more legitimacy with Java.  > >> > And for some reason, presumably because it destroyed yourD >> > argument completely you refused to accept that the availabilityA >> > of 1.3 on AIX at around the same time as the Solaris versionaA >> > was clear evidence that the Java playing field is not biased  >> > towards Sun.n >> > >> e> >> And yet, you admit in another posting that the Java playing> >> field _is_ definitely biased towards Sun due to associationA >> with the Java brand and Sun.  This is what I mean about takingy) >> facts out of context and in isolation.i >> t > C >Of course I doubt anyone would dispute that. But then that wasn't  D >your argument was it, you were arguing that there was something in B >the Java standardisation process that gave Sun an advantage over . >other vendors when it comes to new releases.  >d  ? What I argued was that if you asked a group of IT professionals A who has the best Java implementation they would almost uniformly e? answer "Sun".  You said this was irrelevant, but it's not.  Thec? Sun Java brand is a considerable disadvantage to other vendors.n  A I _also_ argued that Sun not opening the standardization process  C has ALSO given many of the Java partners problems (including IBM), t9 at one point or another, which I backed with references.    = Now, tell us Andrew.  What's all this dance with Sun and Javao? standardization really all about?  First ISO, then ECMA??  It'st= not just us crazy OpenVMS advocates that seem to be concernedu about this:e  N http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2583429,00.html?chkpt=zdnnmoreon  ; >Stick with the argument you were trying to win don't start 9 >another one, you are exhibiting symptoms of spin at its t >very best.y  > I'm prepared to argue that Sun has an advantage with Sun based> on the fact that they control the standards.  I also argue the? branding issue, but I put it in different terms by referring tot= it as a mindshare problem among Sun competitors.  I'll stick  7 with as many arguments as I need to make to refute you.y   >eA >As a matter of interest though do Compaqs Java porting and test iC >engineers have a harder job because Sun's name is associated with n >Java ?  >e >s: >> > And you totally blew your chances of not appearing to< >> > be anything other than a FUDSTER when I said that there: >> > havn't been any examples of Sun's loading the dice inA >> > our favour, your reply was "yet". Pure FUD, pure supposition < >> > and three letter as well. I congratulate you on blowing% >> > it with 3 letters pretty clever.  >> > >> e@ >> Oh, yes, I'm the master FUDSTER, using 3 letters to tear downD >> Sun.  Very clever.  Ignore for a moment that I was just repeatingA >> what you had just said, ignore that it's absolutely TRUE, thatpC >> Sun hasn't done this "yet..." (wait a minute are you saying thati@ >> a carefully spun fact can be used as FUD????  You're amazing,C >> you can't be consistent even in a single post!), ignore that I'm ? >> just reiterating what many many have brought up as concerns,i? >> long before I used those magic three letters (URL referencest >> available on request)...t >> BE >Wow what a great argument, on this basis anyone can predict anythingtG >and just because it hasn't happened yet but could happen it isn't FUD.h >a; >Jordan on this basis you need to take back every response s; >you have ever made when for example someone has suggested ?< >that OpenVMS might die, Alpha might die, you didn't accuse ; >them of FUD did you, lets hope not because that would havem7 >been wrong of you wouldn't it because it could happen.t >h  9 You see Andrew, I'm not in the business of FUD.  I don't  < challenge _everything_ said here, pro or con Compaq/OpenVMS.9 No, mostly I only get involved in these debates with one  7 Sun employee who is obviously on a mission to discredit,9 Compaq, OpenVMS and it's adherents on this newsgroup set d$ aside for discussions about OpenVMS.     >o >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Hendersono jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 21:44:07 GMT- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>eY Subject: EDT vs. TPU -- was Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error; contacta Compaqp( Message-ID: <3A03319C.340A4BCE@ohio.edu>  h In the mid- and late-1980s some of my student workers and I wrote a modified version of the EDT-emulatorh for TPU that incorporated a number of enhancements and bug-fixes.  I wrote it up for the PAGESWAPPER, asj the VAX SIG Newsletter was then known, and submitted it from Kalamazoo College (where I was then employed)6 to the DECUS VAX SIG Symposium Tape for Anaheim, 1987.  i As it turns out, I still have the TPU source code of the section file, and the DSR source code of the twogj Pageswapper articles describing our work.  I could almost certainly put them where interested people couldU grab them, if there are in fact interested people!  Post here or send private E-mail.o  g We found that a memory-starved VAX-11/750 could handle perhaps 50% more users (with the same subjectivetg response time) with TPU than with EDT as the default editor (most work was student programming projectstj and term papers -- relatively modest-sized text files).  Whether this would apply to current systems, witha their much different balances between RAM size and CPU speed is of course quite another question.   j I doubt that this could be applied directly to current versions of TPU, but there might be some parts that would prove useful.t  +                                         RDP  --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:47:38 -0600t7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>eY Subject: Re: EDT vs. TPU -- was Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error;contact a Col- Message-ID: <3A0394EA.44DC0611@earthlink.net>.   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:n > j > In the mid- and late-1980s some of my student workers and I wrote a modified version of the EDT-emulatorj > for TPU that incorporated a number of enhancements and bug-fixes.  I wrote it up for the PAGESWAPPER, asl > the VAX SIG Newsletter was then known, and submitted it from Kalamazoo College (where I was then employed)8 > to the DECUS VAX SIG Symposium Tape for Anaheim, 1987. > k > As it turns out, I still have the TPU source code of the section file, and the DSR source code of the two-l > Pageswapper articles describing our work.  I could almost certainly put them where interested people couldW > grab them, if there are in fact interested people!  Post here or send private E-mail.8   Yes!! Please!! Post a link!!!r   -- < David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.>   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:40:26 GMT- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>tY Subject: Re: EDT vs. TPU -- was Re: %EDT-F-INTERERR, Internal software error;contact a Co>( Message-ID: <3A06DEF3.9CD0D9F5@ohio.edu>    You asked for it, so here it is:  >             http://ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu/tpu_relics/index.html  i Please remember that this was NOT used with TPU after VMS V4.7, although we did use it fairly extensively  throughout the V4 timeframe.  +                                         RDPy     "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:t > >el > > In the mid- and late-1980s some of my student workers and I wrote a modified version of the EDT-emulatorl > > for TPU that incorporated a number of enhancements and bug-fixes.  I wrote it up for the PAGESWAPPER, asn > > the VAX SIG Newsletter was then known, and submitted it from Kalamazoo College (where I was then employed): > > to the DECUS VAX SIG Symposium Tape for Anaheim, 1987. > >em > > As it turns out, I still have the TPU source code of the section file, and the DSR source code of the tworn > > Pageswapper articles describing our work.  I could almost certainly put them where interested people couldY > > grab them, if there are in fact interested people!  Post here or send private E-mail.  >s > Yes!! Please!! Post a link!!!  >a > -- > David J. Dachteraw > dba DJE Systemso > http://www.djesys.com/ >o< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o >yH > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. > B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.n   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 22:30:56 +0100e2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)3 Subject: Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.t; Message-ID: <3a05d190.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>o  ' Cthulhu (cthulhu@kadath.deep.it) wrote:U? :     %DECW-W-NODEVICE, No graphics device found on this systemoD :     -DECW-I-NODECW, DECwindows graphics drivers will not be loaded :     LENG::SYSTEM$  :a: : That's right. "SHOW LOG *DECW*" shows a lot of logicals.  > That's alright. It only says that no X server will be started.   : Now, from the FAQ: :tL :     LENG::SYSTEM$ SET DISPLAY /CREATE /TRANSPORT=TCPIP /NODE=rlyeh.deep.it  :     LENG::SYSTEM$ show display :r# :         Device:    WSA2:  [super]h" :         Node:      RLYEH.DEEP.IT :         Transport: TCPIP :         Server:    0 :         Screen:    0 :  :     LENG::SYSTEM$  :g : Which seems fine.p   It is.  
 : But now: :D- :     LENG::SYSTEM$ run sys$system:decw$clocky) :     X Toolkit Error: Can't Open displaye+ :     %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204U :     LENG::SYSTEM$  :hD : On the linux machine (rlyeh.deep.it) I already enabled all clients : access with "xlock +".  : It should work, IMHO. Errr... shouldn't that be "xhost +"?  F : "SHOW SYS" doesn't show any new running process which can I identifyG : as an X component... with my unix background I know I don't want an XoH : Server running on the client machine (with the X11 meaning of client),   That's correct.r  4 : but I don't know if VMS has different requirement.  G DECwindows is as much X/Motif as it can get for VMS (except for all thef6 *ix path specifications for fonts, app defaults, etc.)  H Try to run DECW$EXAMPLES:ICO.EXE. Its error messages are normally better! than those of other applications.a   cu,a   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de.N One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Nov 2000 17:46:37 GMTl& From: Cthulhu <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it>3 Subject: Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300..) Message-ID: <8uc3ht$dfb$1@kadath.deep.it>i  ' Cthulhu <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it> wrote:r  ) >     X Toolkit Error: Can't Open displayo+ >     %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204e   Sgrunt, I solved this.  D It was a misconfigured NAT on the linux box acting as a router which& allowed half-way connection handling.   = Thanks to all, especially to which suggested to check "TELNETs RLYEH.DEEP.IT /PORT=6000". ;)c  E Now all works fine, except some programs I can found in DECW$EXAMPLE,e. which halt saying (from DECW$EXAMPLE:DOG.EXE):  P X Toolkit Warning: I18NOpenFile: Couldn't open file motifanim.uid - MrmNOT_FOUND9 can't open hierarchy defined by motifanim.uid and dog.uide   	decwindowingly, 	   Cthulhui -- o  G        Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it wgah'nagl fhtgan!u# 		        <cthulhu at rlyeh dot it>h   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Nov 2000 22:23:14 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>n/ Subject: Re: Extending LATNET over dial-up linea7 Message-ID: <rjqzojfzui5.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>e  ! SysAdmin <djesys@fsi.net> writes:'  J > Actually, DECnet and LAT are related, but in no way inter-dependent. LAT> > runs just fine without DECnet, and the reverse is also true.   100% back the front....   I LAT and DECnet are totally independent. Except perhaps in implementation,  with regard MOP operation.  @ Please nore that LAT work fine even with NO decnet at all, or if3 LAT and decnet are on totally different interfaces.u   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:36:25 +0000n+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> A Subject: Re: f$cvtime() not adjusting for Daylight Savings Time ?.' Message-ID: <3A074079.51E21B1C@iee.org>v   Warren Spencer wrote:bK > I would have expected this statement to yield 7:00 am, not 8:00 am, sincepH > the clocks rolled back at 2:00 am on October 29.  Am I wishing for too0 > much?  Perhaps an OpenVMS configuration issue?  = I think expecting OpenVMS to predict the whims of governmentsU9 over the next 27 years (9999 days) or so is asking a bit s6 much (DST rules do change quite more frequently than I would expect is reasonable ...)    Antonioe   --     ---------------e- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgc   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 13:05:30 GMTp- From: "Compusync" <hsappleton@sprintmail.com>>: Subject: FA: Digital DEC LA50/LA75 Printer Ribbon NEW L@@KC Message-ID: <uixO5.5483$qr.525852@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>r  @ http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=491870914G Auction Ends on:                 Thursday, Nov 16, 2000 at 20:26:12 PSTi   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:48:38 GMTy- From: "Compusync" <hsappleton@sprintmail.com> ; Subject: FA: Reflection 4 For DOS Pc\VAX Terminal EmulationrF Message-ID: <G%BM5.16179$Pw6.1163638@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  @ http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=487173646E Auction Ends on:                 Sunday, Nov 12, 2000 at 07:36:05 PSTi   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:46:13 -0600c7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>n> Subject: Re: FA: Reflection4 For Win DEC VT340/300 ReGIS/Sixel- Message-ID: <3A0A0FF5.E0DDE452@earthlink.net>    Compusync wrote: > B > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=491691846I > Auction Ends on:                 Thursday, Nov 16, 2000 at 18:22:03 PSTs  F Note, however, that R/4 V4.x may not be (probably isn't) a 16 bit app.F and might not (probably doesn't) support long file names in Windows/9x
 and later.  E If you win this auction, you'll also want to poke around on WRQ's ftpeG site and look for the current versions of ALPHALK2.EXE and VAXLINK2.EXET3 (WRQ protocol VMS-side programs for file transfer).t  C You might also find VSZ and VRZ (X/Y/ZMODEM send/receive). They areo& OpenVMS-VAX images, but can be VESTed.  H Early versions of WRQ's FTP client for windows don't play nice with some  newer OpenVMS FTP servers, also.   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:07:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tI Subject: Re: Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation. , Message-ID: <3A089951.728A6AA3@videotron.ca>  
 Sapper wrote:>> > Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation./ > %LIB-F-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memorya  D Your process does not have the "right" to use enough virtual memory.  + 1- ensure that your pagefile is big enough.nK 2- in AUTHORIZE, boost your username's PGFLQUOTA (how much of the page filen' you can take), as well as the WSEXTENT.u  I Note that the sysgen parameter WSMAX will limit your WSEXTENT if you make  WSEXTENT greater than WSMAX.  M If you give yourself too great a PGFLQUOTA in relation to the page file size,eH you risk hanging your system if it runs out of page file space when your& process takes all the remaining space.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 14:19:41 -0800  From: johnson@umtc.det Subject: Re: GAWK for VMS?) Message-ID: <8tsp9t01vsq@drn.newsguy.com>d   Bernd wrote: >  >johnson@umtc.de wrote:t >> vJ >> Can anybody tell me how to go about getting awk for a VMS machine which >> doesn't have a C compiler?t >> s. >http://www.montagar.com/freeware/GAWK-2_15_6/     $ r gawk.exe. %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image MTHRTLJ -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file UMTC$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]UVMTHRTL.EXE: -SYSTEM-F-SHRIDMISMAT, ident mismatch with shareable image $0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 21:56:04 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)s Subject: Re: GAWK for VMS?0 Message-ID: <3a0728d0.17081652@swen.process.com>  C On 3 Nov 2000 18:52 PST, rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin) wrote:.  I >: Hunter has been successful distributing ZIP, UNZIP and other things iniK >: object form for both VAX and Alpha (LINK on the target system at installa@ >: time). Maybe that should be a standard practice for freeware. >rA >     Well, Hunter already has a more recent version of gawk thanhA >2.15.6 available from ftp.wku.edu (gawk.zip in [.vms.fileserv]), A >and it does include linkable object libraries as well as VAX and C >Alpha executables.  It is gawk 3.0.3; the current version is 3.0.6v >though. >eD I hope to get V3.0.6 on ftp.wku.edu soon.  I haven't forgotten, just! haven't had time to do it yet....    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/l: goathunter@goatley.com      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 03:03:29 GMTo, From: rossgl@parknicollet.com (Gary L. Ross)% Subject: HELP !!  System just crashedo, Message-ID: <3a061d73.3130690@news.visi.com>   Hello,; 	We are running OpenVMS 6.2-1H3 on an AlphaServer 4100.  WenC just rebooted the system and I received the following error message  during the memory dump:e  1 	error_routines_1605 ** Machinecheck 670 ** CPU=1r 	h4 	AlphaServer 4100 running OpenVMS v.6.2-1H3 Bugcheck? 	Code=00000215:  Machinechk, Machine check while in kernel modeB6 	Crash CPU: 00  Primary CPU: 00  Active CPUs: 00000003 	Current Process = NULLs 	Image Name =  	Memory Dump . . . . u  D I think the problem is with the "Active CPUs" because we only have 2C CPU's in the system but the above error message says 3 active CPUs.s  F Here's the bad part, I now found out (the hard way) that we don't saveC any crash dump files so I have no way of running ANALYZE/CRASH_DUMPrC to see if it could give me any clues to what is happening.  This iswE where I'm hoping the people who participate in the group will be ablei9 to point me in the right direction to resolve this issue.n   Thanks.h   Gary L. Ross  Sr. Systems Programmer - OpenVMS Park Nicollet Health Services  rossgl@parknicollet.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:58:11 GMT , From: rossgl@parknicollet.com (Gary L. Ross)) Subject: Re: HELP !!  System just crashedg+ Message-ID: <3a070c69.477701@news.visi.com>-  E After reading some of the other posts, I can to the same conclusion. cD I think the video card is failing but would this cause the system to crash ??     Gary    2 On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 07:59:43 -0500, Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote:  L >In article <3a061d73.3130690@news.visi.com>, rossgl@parknicollet.com wrote: > A >>	Code=00000215:  Machinechk, Machine check while in kernel modeo >i >This is a hardware failure.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:34:31 -0500e, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>) Subject: Re: HELP !!  System just crashed > Message-ID: <hshubs-843E88.20343106112000@news.mindspring.com>  J In article <3a070c69.477701@news.visi.com>, rossgl@parknicollet.com wrote:  F >After reading some of the other posts, I can to the same conclusion. E >I think the video card is failing but would this cause the system tor	 >crash ??l  M I think that is unlikely.  You'll have to have the hardware service guy tell r you. --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 02:14:58 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: HELP ME: a short survey for course assignment< Message-ID: <CuoN5.27517$Ho3.225911@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  3 "Brian Yung" <byobitman@yahoo.com> wrote in messager# news:3A059134.8CD6073B@yahoo.com... / > HELP ME: a short survey for course assignment  >  > http://come.to/byresearch- >=J > I am a university student and doing a short survey (only 7 questions) on > management studies.  >   C Would you consider posting a summary of your results in this forum?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 02:37:19 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-+ Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed? * Message-ID: <3A04C7DF.BAB8AF7F@virgin.net>  J >         I ran last night on the same disks, mostly equal to the previous > data and got this: >a? >        BACKUP       job terminated at  3-NOV-2000 05:30:22.73a >D >   Accounting information:tF >   Buffered I/O count:          666971         Peak working set size: > 18384o >h  < Peak working set hasn't increased. You need to find out why.    ; > Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:       600  Bytlm:       128000 ; > Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0m; > Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       300  JTquota:       4096S; > Prclm:          10  DIOlm:      4096  WSdef:       200000I; > Prio:            4  ASTlm:      4096  WSquo:       200000D; > Queprio:         0  TQElm:        40  WSextent:   1000000 ; > CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:     32767  Pgflquo:    2000000  >p  A All ok above but your working set didn't get anywhere near 200000h  K >         I checked the value of CHANNELCNT = 1168, but I don't know how to." > tell if this is adequate or not. >w   That's fine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:56:43 +0100y  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>+ Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?i+ Message-ID: <VA.00000152.1487822e@sture.ch>o  @ In article <3A01649C.6DA72BFF@oracle.com>, Norm lastovica wrote:4 > From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms>- > Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?,' > Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 07:57:00 -0500D >  >  >  > "Sloan E. Essman" wrote: > > N > > Also use /NOCRC with the backup command when using DLT drives.  SupposedlyO > > the drives have enough error correction built into them that you don't need P > > BACKUP to perform Cyclic Redundancy Checks.  This was according to the folksL > > who improved the BACKUP command for VMS 7.2.  They pointed it out during: > > Decus L.A. in 1998.  So just avoid that waste of time. > : >  Personally, I recommend that you NEVER use /NOCRC.  CRC? > protects from failures of the entire end-to-end I/O path.  MysA > believe is that if you don't care about backups, don't do them.D? > If you *do* care about them, do it right and try to ensure ass, > much possibility of being able to restore.  H I'll second that. It's the complete I/O path, not just between the cable  into the tape unit and the tape.  ? >  Backup performance isn't all that important: it is *restore*8A > performance that matters!  Your business is doing nothing whiletD > the restore is running.  And it'll be worse if the restore doesn't% > work.  Practice restore procedures!a >sJ I've tried Alan's suggestions and even written a bit of DCL suggest quotasL for the backup account, using the guidelines which were posted here a littleL while ago. My backup times are more affected by users choosing to run memoryJ and processor hungry applications overnight, and then large quotas can runK against you. I've found that adding another tape drive (or two) is a ratherVN good way of improving backup times, especially with today's processors and I/O systems. ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:56:44 +0100,  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>+ Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?=+ Message-ID: <VA.00000153.148784b9@sture.ch>=  D In article <3a01887d.2075658639@news.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig wrote:' > From: agreig@my-deja.com (Alan Greig)  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsp- > Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?O% > Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:47:11 GMT- > 3 > On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:55:35 +0000, Tim Llewellyn " > <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote: >  > >  > >c > >Alan Greig wrote: > >o6 > >> On Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:30:29 +0000, Tim Llewellyn% > >> <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:h< > >>  >Otherwise, I WANT one of those DLT drives he has :-). > >>J > >> That'll be his special DECThreads multithreaded backup going to 3,600$ > >> tape drives at the same time :) > >> > > , > >I'd hate to be tape op on that system :-) > E > Mulder to Cancer Man: "At least I don't take the elevator *down* to. > the office in the morning" > A > A World In Action special a few years ago discovered that whileeD > Menwith Hill (NSA in the UK) may not be able to process all of theH > data from its downlinks at once they do receive enough backup tapes toG > *RECORD* the entire capacity of *EVERY SINGLE* comms satellite in the  > world in real time.e > C > Of course if I was an NSA boss I might just publically order thatlH > amount of tapes to make people think they did that even if they don't.G > But  I guess they probably do. Cliff Stoll in "The Cuckoo's Egg" alsol> > says that the NSA appeared to be able to pull out historical" > information from satelite feeds. > F I remember a murder investigation in the UK a few years ago where the C police managed to find some satellite pictures which proved that a k@ suspect's car wasn't where he said it was at the time concerned.  E Whilst they aren't going to use such stuff for minor events, if it's o  serious enough, they can get it.  H > Me: I'm suspicous enough about our off site data storage company, EvenG > more suspicous now that they've changed their name from Data Vault too8 > Iron Mountain. Or Iron Maiden as we call them here ;-) > B Back when I was working in the oil industry, there was a security I clampdown because some seismological data (read expensive), mysteriously  J appeared in the public domain. I don't know what happened in the end, but H it made me question the wisdom of trusting third parties with sensitive  data.d  $ It sometimes pays to be paranoid :-) ___-
 Paul Sture Switzerland-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:56:45 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>+ Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?@+ Message-ID: <VA.00000154.148788a3@sture.ch>e  @ In article <3A0279E5.A60A6D2@uiowa.edu>, Richard L. Dyson wrote: > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsr1 > From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>s- > Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?t$ > Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 14:40:05 GMT > L > > >> Also could you post  a copy of the basic Accounting information for aI > > >> job which logs in, run your backup procedure then logs out. Here'sn7 > > >> what I see on an ES40 backing up well over 100GBA > > >>> > > >>  SYSTEM       job terminated at  2-NOV-2000 08:21:01.28 > > >>  > > >>   Accounting information:T > > >>   Buffered I/O count:             734336      Peak working set size:   203616T > > >>   Direct I/O count:              4480978      Peak virtual size:       372576T > > >>   Page faults:                     16052      Mounted volumes:              2V > > >>   Charged CPU time:        0 01:14:40.53      Elapsed time:       0 04:21:01.28 > > >EJ > > >Here is my accounting from last night, with the old settings.  I haveI > > >made some changes to the process quotas and the blocksize and shouldr  > > >have a new result tomorrow. > > >T= > > >  BACKUP       job terminated at  2-NOV-2000 05:44:32.92. > > >% > > >  Accounting information:O > > >  Buffered I/O count:          666420         Peak working set size: 19120OO > > >  Direct I/O count:           1472846         Peak page file size:   60208 O > > >  Page faults:                   3366         Mounted volumes:           2 R > > >  Charged CPU time:           0 00:26:25.84   Elapsed time:     0 03:44:32.89 > > H > > What jumps out at me here is that your peak working set size is onlyG > > 19120 pagelets (compared to my 203616) or about 10MB. In compressed-F > > mode a TK87 can handle about 5MB/sec (I think...) so you have lessF > > than two seconds worth of data buffered. Any significant file I/O,J > > fragmentation or groups of small files iduring the backup is likely to+ > > empty this buffer so pausing the drive.a > C >  I ran last night on the same disks, mostly equal to the previous  > data and got this: > ? >        BACKUP       job terminated at  3-NOV-2000 05:30:22.73u >  >   Accounting information:oG >   Buffered I/O count:          666971         Peak working set size:   > 18384iG >   Direct I/O count:           1448411         Peak page file size:     > 59952 7 >   Page faults:                   4435         Mounted  > volumes:            2 C >   Charged CPU time:           0 00:26:56.02   Elapsed time:     00
 > 03:30:22.675 > ' > Pretty much no change in performance.t > C >  I keep my disks pretty defragmented.  Average report from DFG iseJ > a frag index of 9.2 (i.e., "Excellent").  I run the batch job in a queue > withA > a base priority of 2.  I now see the batch queue had quotas of :2 >  /WSDEFAULT=16384 /WSEXTENT=65536 /WSQUOTA=16384F > Won't these override the UAF settings of the account running BACKUP? >MN Yep. I ran into that trap a few months ago. IIRC, the batch queue quotas were R ludicrously low, and the PQL parameters were kicking in for at least one of those  values.t  8 > Here are the pre-change Authorize settings for BACKUP: > ; > Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:       100  Bytlm:        640001; > Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0 ; > Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       150  JTquota:       4096e; > Prclm:           8  DIOlm:      4096  WSdef:         2000o; > Prio:            4  ASTlm:      4096  WSquo:        163840; > Queprio:         0  TQElm:        10  WSextent:     16384e; > CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:      2000  Pgflquo:      50000o > & > Here are the new Authorize settings: > ; > Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:       600  Bytlm:       128000 ; > Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0'; > Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       300  JTquota:       4096u; > Prclm:          10  DIOlm:      4096  WSdef:       200000t; > Prio:            4  ASTlm:      4096  WSquo:       200000d; > Queprio:         0  TQElm:        40  WSextent:   1000000s; > CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:     32767  Pgflquo:    2000000c > D >  I checked the value of CHANNELCNT = 1168, but I don't know how to" > tell if this is adequate or not. >    ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:56:46 +0100w  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>+ Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?p+ Message-ID: <VA.00000155.14878c46@sture.ch>O  > In article <3A0172E2.FFA6F2C7@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn wrote:/ > From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>f > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms.- > Subject: Re: How to boost DLT backup speed?,' > Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:57:54 +0000o >  >  >  > Alan Greig wrote:- >  > >  > >e? > > For a fast backup to TK89 (change verify below if required)o > >e0 > > $ BK :== BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=(INTER,LABEL) -( > >   /BLOCK=65535/LAB=BACKUP/noVERIFY - > >   /media=compaction -v > D > Yes, I use 64kbyte blocks too, but beware, you must mount the tapeH > FOREIGN to read sucessfully, and you will not be able to copy savesetsJ > made with a blocksize greater than a certain limit (32kbytes?) from tape< > to disk without unpacking the saveset from the tape drive. > K Which is precisely the reason I use 32K. I've found being able to copy the aB savesets to disk very useful in the past, particularly when doing  selective restores.m  H It's 32,256 bytes to be precise. Specifying 32000 does the trick, as it  rounds up for you. ___a
 Paul Sture Switzerlandh   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:12:28 GMTa+ From: John Santos <john.santos@verizon.net>-2 Subject: Re: How to stop a VaxStation rebooting...> Message-ID: <MPG.1470cc9e9eb8a8ea98968f@news.bellatlantic.net>  F In article <8u66l2$1jk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, abirkett@my-deja.com says... >  > - >  ...when the console connection is removed.i > > > I have a vaxstation 4000-60 (VMS 7.2), the console (and onlyE > available connection) is the serial line into my PC with a terminalLF > emulator as the front end. My problem is that when I reboot or powerF > down the PC, the VaxStation shuts down and goes through its power-upE > tests. This is not the desired action. Is there any way of stopping- > this?  > 	 > Thanks,0 >  > AdeM  D It's probably seeing a break (framing error) when the PC shuts down.C On some VAX's, the response to a break is controlled by a switch or2D maybe by a console setting.  I don't know about the VAXstation 4000, though.n   -- s John Santosi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:34:29 +0800L5 From: Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com>h% Subject: How to use AUTOGEN feedback?e8 Message-ID: <r0qm0tse170bvmi01la1gr3dv9ti440p86@4ax.com>  5 My system is running OpenVMS 7.1 on AlphaServer 4000.(  C I am having problems with AUTOGEN to generate information on memoryb
 resources.  B My system had been getting very slow due to the recent increase inF users population and processes. We can't afford to upgrade hardware at the moment.r  D I had read through the old dusty OpenVMS manuals and find it doesn'tF give me much information AUTOGEN FEEDBACK on collecting LIVE data over a period of time.w  F The performance of the system varies from time to time. I am hoping toE get a precise calculation which can handle the heaviest processing ofu2 the day. Can anyone recommend me an good solution?    8 Anyway, Are these following sequential procedure proper?   1) Peak Hours (Afternoon):/ 	@SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA TESTFILES FEEDBACKe   2) Non-Peak Hours (Late Night)1 	@SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS SAVPARAMS FEEDBACKa   3) Next Day Morningr2 	Decipher AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT, modify MODPARAMS.DAT/ 	@SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA SETPARAMS FEEDBACKk  $ 4) Ad-Hoc Maintenance (once a month) 	Reboot system to update system0  E Due to business operation limitation, my server cannot be rebooted as + wish. Are the above instructions advisable?         Regards,  	 Netsurfern        ====R For any personal email replies, please remove " sentosa. " from my E-mail address.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:05:04 -0500* From: "Paul A. Jacobi" <nospan@nospam.com>B Subject: Re: I've added a DE500-BA NIC to my 255/300... boot hang?, Message-ID: <8ucj01$d40q$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  5 "Alan Fay" <alan.fay@btinternet.com> wrote in messagee- news:8ubqdt$7jm$1@neptunium.btinternet.com...    >     Shared PIRQ0 in slot 4  + OpenVMS does not support shared interrupts.c  H The PCI slot closest to the motherboard on the AlphaStation 255 has it'sL interrupt line shared with the built-in ethernet card.  This PCI slot cannot be used with OpenVMS.eL The only exception is that the shared-interupt slot can be used with certain* graphics cards that do not use itnerrupts.     Paul A. Jacobi Compaq Computer Corporatione! OpenVMS Systems Group, ZKO3-4/U14  110 Spitbrook Road Nashua, NH 03062-2698a Email: Paul.Jacobi@compaq.comc   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 07:48:51 GMTp3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)e6 Subject: Re: IP-Verbindung von zu Hause in Deutschland0 Message-ID: <8udkt3$pat$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  [ In article <8uch5t$7au$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:jH >Inzwischen denke ich, dass ich wei, wie ich alles mache, was ich dazu G >brauche usw.  (Bei der TCPIP-Konfigurierung, hat der ISDN-Router dann >! >eine IP-Adresse, die ich angebe?   M Er hat eine, die vom Provider zugeteilt worden ist und die eben die statischetN Adresse ist. Dann hat er wohl noch eine zweite, die Du ihm in Deinem LAN geben; kannst, am besten eine aus einem der nicht grouteten Netze.c  G > Wer kann erklren, warum ich 3 weniger NUTZBARE IP-Adressen habe, als!
 > insgesamt?)h  L Ich verstehe die Frage nicht. Generell gilt aber das die 0 und die 255 nichtM vergeben werden. Erstere, weil sie zur Bezeichnung des Netzes dient, letztere:M ist die Broadcast-Adresse, auf die alle Rechner des Netzes antworten sollten.5   >Allerdings kenne ich nur I >zwei Firmen, die so etwas anbieten (mit statischen IP-Adressen, dial-in 7C >dial-out falls billiger als echte Standleitung usw.).  Diese sind  G >Lnecom in Lneburg und Komtel in Flensburg.  Die Preise und auch die  < >Herangehensweisen sind unterschiedlich, also lohnt es sich H >wahrscheinlich, noch mehr Angebote zu haben---die Frage ist nur, woher?   Hier muss ich passen.-   Gruss     Christoph Gartmann0  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 06:21:17 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")> Subject: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful?8 Message-ID: <009F2D5A.AD7188D6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  	 VMSers --S  I In following Hunter Goatley's earlier suggestion about my VMS MAIL header0G problems, I find that it would be very useful to make the Multinet SMTP + transport my users' default mail transport.0   My problem is that if I do   MAIL> SET TRANSPORT SMTP%a  G user@domain.tld gets interpreted as SMTP%user@domain.tld, and when the  E message gets delivered to domain.com, it thinks I'm trying to do the tH percent-hack trick and complains because it doesn't know any nodes named% user, much less any users named SMTP.e  D Is there some way with the SET TRANSPORT command to get the results F interpreted as SMTP%"user@domain.tld" instead of SMTP%user@domain.tld?  K (VMS 7.2-1, MULTINET 4.3 A-X, Multinet configured to forward all mail to a e PMDF 6.0-24 node.)   Thanks,c   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056vM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================d   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 10:15:43 GMTe3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) B Subject: Re: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful?0 Message-ID: <8udtgf$s3g$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   In article <009F2D5A.AD7188D6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:e
 >VMSers -- >sJ >In following Hunter Goatley's earlier suggestion about my VMS MAIL headerH >problems, I find that it would be very useful to make the Multinet SMTP, >transport my users' default mail transport. >i >My problem is that if I doh >m >MAIL> SET TRANSPORT SMTP% > H >user@domain.tld gets interpreted as SMTP%user@domain.tld, and when the F >message gets delivered to domain.com, it thinks I'm trying to do the I >percent-hack trick and complains because it doesn't know any nodes nameda& >user, much less any users named SMTP. >tE >Is there some way with the SET TRANSPORT command to get the results  G >interpreted as SMTP%"user@domain.tld" instead of SMTP%user@domain.tld?t > L >(VMS 7.2-1, MULTINET 4.3 A-X, Multinet configured to forward all mail to a  >PMDF 6.0-24 node.)   = What do you see when you enter "SHOW ALL" at the mail prompt?sL Normally your command above should work. Here it does (under OpenVMS 7.1-2).   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann0  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:07:48 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")B Subject: Re: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful?8 Message-ID: <009F2DDE.E79F02C0@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  1 In article <8udtgf$s3g$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, a8 gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) quoted me:     >In article <009F2D5A.AD7188D6@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: >>VMSers --  >>K >>In following Hunter Goatley's earlier suggestion about my VMS MAIL headertI >>problems, I find that it would be very useful to make the Multinet SMTPu- >>transport my users' default mail transport.i >> >>My problem is that if I do >> >>MAIL> SET TRANSPORT SMTP%e >>I >>user@domain.tld gets interpreted as SMTP%user@domain.tld, and when the mG >>message gets delivered to domain.com, it thinks I'm trying to do the uJ >>percent-hack trick and complains because it doesn't know any nodes named' >>user, much less any users named SMTP.  >>F >>Is there some way with the SET TRANSPORT command to get the results H >>interpreted as SMTP%"user@domain.tld" instead of SMTP%user@domain.tld? >>M >>(VMS 7.2-1, MULTINET 4.3 A-X, Multinet configured to forward all mail to a i >>PMDF 6.0-24 node.)  
 and asked:   >e> >What do you see when you enter "SHOW ALL" at the mail prompt?M >Normally your command above should work. Here it does (under OpenVMS 7.1-2).  >aE ---------------------------------------------------------------------  MAIL> SHOW ALL  2 Your mail file directory is $DISK4:[WINSTON.MAIL].8 Your current mail file is $DISK4:[WINSTON.MAIL]MAIL.MAI.$ Your current mail folder is NEWMAIL.+ The wastebasket folder name is WASTEBASKET.v' Mail file $DISK4:[WINSTON.MAIL]MAIL.MAIc,         contains 1236 deleted message bytes.   You have 0 new messages.  E Your mail is being forwarded to IN%"_winston@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu".m> Your personal name is "Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing". Your editor is TPU.- CC prompting is disabled. * Automatic copies to yourself are disabled.+ Automatic deleted message purge is enabled.k) Your default print queue is 120_MAILROOM.a, You have not specified a default print form.  Your default transport is SMTP%.0 You have not specified a default signature file.E ---------------------------------------------------------------------s  H Note that the SMTP transport has been instructed to hand things off to aE PMDF system.  SMTP tells PMDF that it's got SMTP%user@domain.tld, andgC PMDF passes this whole thing along to domain.tld, which bounces it.   G I need the default transport defined because I need even local mail to bK take a trip through SMTP so that the local users will show up appropriatelyo2 in headers on mail that also goes to remote users.   -- Alano  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056dM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:17:37 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>UB Subject: Re: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful?, Message-ID: <3A0B2278.ABC119BA@videotron.ca>   > MAIL> SHOW ALLG > Your mail is being forwarded to IN%"_winston@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu". " > Your default transport is SMTP%.    	 Bad boy !   I I am not sure that having a default transport is compatible with having a R forwarding address that contains a foreign address with a transport specification.  J Have you tried having your forwarding address to just the internet address (without the in%) ?(   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 03:22:53 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")B Subject: Re: Is there some way to make MAIL> SET TRANSPORT useful?8 Message-ID: <009F2E0A.EBD8E66D@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3A0B2278.ABC119BA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >> MAIL> SHOW ALL H >> Your mail is being forwarded to IN%"_winston@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu".# >> Your default transport is SMTP%.i >r >i
 >Bad boy ! >rJ >I am not sure that having a default transport is compatible with having aS >forwarding address that contains a foreign address with a transport specification.  >eK >Have you tried having your forwarding address to just the internet address  >(without the in%) ?  K Actually, I've tried this without having any forwarding address at all, and  gotten the same results.  K (The forward, which actually goes to the system this is on, was another try I at forcing a trip through the PMDF mail system to see if the headers camei out right.)p   -- Alan2  O ===============================================================================W0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:13:45 GMT0 From: richard_maher@my-deja.comj Subject: Re: Java on Openvms) Message-ID: <8tuo7i$ft3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hi,   @ >(For what it's worth, we are a heterogeneous shop, using Tru64,D >Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, Windows, Mac OS [probably even farther behind> >the JDK curve than OpenVMS], OpenVMS, .... and cross-platform% >ineroperability is important to us.)n >:  E So would it be resonable to extrapolate from the above that you wouldg@ have more than a passing interest in data integrity and 2PC ACID: transaction atomicity across your heterogeneous platforms?  = Are you then happy with RTR being Trojen Horsed into your VMSu0 development environment only to have it cost youD **ONE*MILLION*DOLLARS** for client licenses??? (Based on 1000 clientG PCs at $1000.00/PC RTR client license) Do you not wonder why you cannot:B just use COM+ (or whatever the Java equivalent is) and not have toG change your entire front-end development strategy just to placate Capt.h RTR?  > *** and cross-platform ineroperability is important to us. ***   How bloody important???a  E What steps have you taken to kick your Compaq rep's arse into action?u   Regards Richard MaherL  > PS. Has Java even addressed the issue of hetero txn atomicity?    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:37:37 +0100m  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: Java on Openvms+ Message-ID: <VA.0000014c.14082703@sture.ch>l  D In article <3a02b5de.2152812390@news.newsguy.com>, Alan Greig wrote:' > From: agreig@my-deja.com (Alan Greig)K > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsN > Subject: Re: Java on Openvms% > Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 13:06:51 GMTm > 5 > On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:29:20 +0000, andrew harrison,# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:o >  > C > >I know this may be kind of tricky to grasp (Yes I turned extremel > >condescentionJ > >mode on specially for you) but my statement does not say anything about! > >Java not being cross platform.c >  > Hi Andrewe > E > Back from Steve Hoffman's two day VMS future presentation in LondonrH > then? Which one were you? And don't claim you weren't there. How could4 > you resist? We're studying the photos right now... >  > :-)s >  > >nJ > >If you have 5 different platforms running 1.2.2 then a Java app running > >on H > >one should run on all 5 platforms, all you have to do is ensure that   > >all the platforms have 1.2.2. > >xH > >If you have one platform which can run 1.1.X, 1.2.X and 1.3 (Solaris, > >AIX,>G > >Linux, Win32, HP-UX, Tru64) then you should be able to run any Java .J > >application but you may need to use one JVM for one app and another forG > >a second because not all apps are upwardly or downwardly compatible.  > C > Wow all these compiler writers have got it wrong for years. Don'tnG > bother making the compiler work with old code. Just keep every singleo > release ever on the disk.  > C > Surely a better argument for you to use Andrew is that:  "Java isfD > still a rapidly developing technology and there are some instancesD > where backwards comptability cannot be guaranteed currently. It isA > expected that this will settle down." Otherwise while it may beoG > possible to keep a few JVMs around now in ten years time it will be aoE > nightmare if every year's worth of developed apps needs that year's1 > JVM to be on the safe side.  > H And in the run up to Y2K, one of my colleagues reported that he found a 9 system with no less than 8 instances of Java, of various  G versions/flavours, on some NT system. "How come?", I asked. Apparently r7 they each arrived by installing different applications.e  I What a mess! Can you say DLL Hell? (Hint: there was/is a lengthy article nJ on the MS site with that in the title). I dunno if those Java things were - distributed as DLLs, but it's a good analogy.O  B > Hmm perhaps VMS engineering could take advantage of file versionG > numbers to leave all the old RTLs around just so they don't feel leftc > out of this new paradigm.i > I Upon which, the guy who isn't aware of the situation sees a disk getting i full, and does a purge :-) ___a
 Paul Sture Switzerlandd   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 18:25:22 GMTo* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: kill NSLOOKUP. Message-ID: <8u6t2i$dh0$1@info.service.rug.nl>   I've mentioned this before.A  H WHY is SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$NSLOOKUP.EXE so difficult to kill?  If there is E a name server problem somewhere, it hangs, but if it's obvious to me k2 that there will be no success, I'd rather kill it.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2000 15:51:05 GMTs1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n Subject: Latest Compaq Mailing+ Message-ID: <8tumt9$ph7$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   ? Just picked up my mail for the day.  So, did everybody else getd) their LIVE Webcast Seminar announcement??   A Now you too can have 24x7 reliability.  Just buy Proliant serversn$ and run UnixWare 7 NonStop Clusters.  ; I don't know whether I should try the multimedia CD or not.4> Do you think it will work if I put it in the CDROM on my VAX??   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:52:41 GMTy4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Latest Compaq Mailing< Message-ID: <t3CM5.12947$Ho3.137690@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message% news:8tumt9$ph7$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...aA > Just picked up my mail for the day.  So, did everybody else get0+ > their LIVE Webcast Seminar announcement??. >(C > Now you too can have 24x7 reliability.  Just buy Proliant serverss& > and run UnixWare 7 NonStop Clusters.  ( Would that eBay adopted such a solution.   >.= > I don't know whether I should try the multimedia CD or not. @ > Do you think it will work if I put it in the CDROM on my VAX??   Sure, if your VAX runs Windoze.I   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:43:07 +0100e  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>@ Subject: Re: Layered product installation errors on Alpha V7.2-1+ Message-ID: <VA.0000015f.20ed1750@sture.ch>m  < In article <3A05ED3B.85B6B234@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote:/ > From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsrB > Subject: Re: Layered product installation errors on Alpha V7.2-1' > Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 19:29:06 -0400c >  > Paul Sture wrote:e? > > %PCSI-E-ERROWNER, error in owner specification 'DCE$SERVER' & > > %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failed > 	 > RTFM...o >nL OK, I was doing a mass install of all the hobbyist stuff, so I will admit I  didn't RTFM...  1 > >     This kit requires at least:  DEC UCX V3.0e > O > I suspect that a lot of the older products have not been updated to recignise 8 > TCPIP V5. Edit the A saveset, fix it, and recreate it. >eG With a PCSI kit?? Obviously time for me to learn more about PCSI stiff.-  ? > >      Checking/registering INTL-LEXICON-BRITISH-ENG  ProductC > > Authorization Key... > > E > > %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spellingl > >  \CONSTANT=100\ = > > %LICENSE-W-NOLIC, no license was found for this product -  > > INTL-LEXICON-BRITISH-E > M > I recall having problems installing and running DECWrite as well. I beleiveiM > editing the KITINSTAL.COM to fix the typo in the command file is necessary.  >  Thanks for the tip.:  : > Also, I had problems with DECW logicals and directories. > ' > I have the following in my systartup:  > " > @sys$startup:write$startup EN_GB" > @sys$startup:decw$starti18 EN_GB > @sys$startup:lci$startup.com >  > K > I remember having to fiddle with directories and copy the base ones in to8P > "EN_GB" ones because my system was originally installed as a normal "american"J > english VMS system. And some logicals point to a vanilla directory while6 > DECWRITE has installed itself in a *EN_GB directory. >  > O > I had to fiddle some to get it to work. I suspect that if you install it with I > the language called "american", then it will probably work flawlesly...e >g1 Tried the US option first, and that gave similar.g  Q I'm just wondering if someone could give us a straight edge on what the Hobbyist dI License actually gives us. Obviously quite a bit of thought was given to TP agreeing precisely which licenses should be given, but it wouldn't hurt to link K those licenses with "License key ABC allows the use of product DEF version e0 1.2-A, with restriction xyz (e.g. single user)".  
 N'est-ce pas?A ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:16:29 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)J Subject: Re: License question: How can I tell if a license if Vax or AlphaL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0311001216290001@user-2ive6bu.dialup.mindspring.com>  G In article <8ttpph$n6j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, pdafniotis@hotmail.com wrote:-   > Hello there- > J > I have a question regarding licenses. We are giving away a mixed clusterH > (1 VAX + 1 Alpha) as we have obtained a new Alpha. I need to know whatF > licenses are only applicable for VAX or for Alpha. Is there a way to) > tell (other than test it of course :-).U >  > Here are some examples:DB > VAXCLUSTER - we have 3 licenses like this; are they only for VAX. > machines or they are good for Alpha as well?  M VAXCLUSTER does NOT work on an alpha, though you might not notice for a long e  time.  You will need VMSCLUSTER.  K Generally a system replacement like this involves a licence trade-in, whichTI would lower the price of the new system quite a lot.  If you have already.J bought the new alpha, and it lacks a cluster license, you should still try% to trade in your old cluster license.    -- n Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:43:24 GMT & From: Wolfgang Rupp <wolfgang@rupp.nu> Subject: license registerd4 Message-ID: <0OjO5.77958$Le2.4041989@news.chello.at>  
 newbie alert:   C I got a PWS500a, put in a USD 30,- Symbios810 controller, found oldd< SCSI disk, installed new SRM firmware - instant PWS500au :-)  G I bought the VMS/Alpha hobbyist CD, registered the machine as PWS500au,VD with just "PWS500AU" as hardware ID, because I did not find one, and got my license mailed.   >>> b dkc1001 Installed everything, but DECnet IV instead of V. 0 I did not register licenses during installation. Log in as SYSTEM.   @ $license register openvms-alpha /every /thing /mentioned gives a& checksum error. What am I doing wrong?  . Note: I never registered a VMS license before.   Wolfgang   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:53:33 GMTe$ From: Wolfgang Rupp <rupp@chello.at> Subject: Re: license registero4 Message-ID: <xXjO5.78054$Le2.4046361@news.chello.at>  ' Wolfgang Rupp <wolfgang@rupp.nu> wrote:)  H a) Just found out that the machine hosting my personal domain runs wild.*    That's why I changed my sender address.I b) Yes, I read the FAQ about release and termination date. Interestingly,n    both are 08-NOV-2001.   Wolfgang   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:17:50 -0600@7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>M Subject: Re: license register - Message-ID: <3A0A175E.A5BD78CF@earthlink.net>i   Wolfgang Rupp wrote: >  > newbie alert:i > E > I got a PWS500a, put in a USD 30,- Symbios810 controller, found oldu> > SCSI disk, installed new SRM firmware - instant PWS500au :-) > I > I bought the VMS/Alpha hobbyist CD, registered the machine as PWS500au,MF > with just "PWS500AU" as hardware ID, because I did not find one, and > got my license mailed. >  > >>> b dkc1003 > Installed everything, but DECnet IV instead of V.y2 > I did not register licenses during installation. > Log in as SYSTEM.m > B > $license register openvms-alpha /every /thing /mentioned gives a( > checksum error. What am I doing wrong?  E If you can, use a terminal program and cut-and-paste the license data C from your e-mail. Ya gotta be careful about "O"'s ("ohs") and "0"'s B ("zeroes"), also. Type everything EXACTLY as it appears in the PAK replica.   -- d David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 20:36:03 GMTr8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) Subject: Re: license registerS6 Message-ID: <8uf1rj$mlv$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  5 In article <0OjO5.77958$Le2.4041989@news.chello.at>, e( Wolfgang Rupp <wolfgang@rupp.nu> writes:  A >$license register openvms-alpha /every /thing /mentioned gives ai' >checksum error. What am I doing wrong?t   You may find it easer to n       $ @SYS$COMMON:VMSLICENSE  ) which will guide you through the process.-  I Alternatively, put your "register openvms-alpha /every /thing /mentioned"tD command in a .COM file (using an editor) so that you can more easily. correct it as necessary.  Then @<whatever>.COM   -- eK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAtF          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 21:09:57 GMT= From: kparris@my-deja.com=! Subject: Re: Licensing in cluster ) Message-ID: <8u76mt$u9d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>i  G If there are multiple license databases, then yes, all licenses need toyH be loaded in each database (or you can simply load all the licenses into@ one file and then copy that file to all the other system disks).  H In any cluster with multiple system disks, one can simplify one's systemH management workload by pointing the logical name LMF$LICENSE to a commonG disk or shadowset, and thereby having a shared common license database.3D  Then new license PAKs need only be loaded once, not once per system disk.aG -----------------------------------------------------------------------iG Keith Parris|Integrity Computing,Inc.|parris@decuserve.decus.org-nospam F VMS Consulting: Clusters, Perf., Alpha porting, Storage&I/O, Internals    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.v   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2000 02:28 -0400 From: hein@eps.zko.dec.c*m Subject: Re: Locks% Message-ID: <3NOV200002282691@miasys>   U In article <3A023707.DBEC5C66@pacbell.net>, "E. Higa" <higasan@pacbell.net> writes...:C >I'm looking for somewhere that will give good detailed information0G >regarding locks. running through monitor cluster the locks on one nodeB >it the 15,000 mark at times.z  G LOCKS, like BUFIO, can be goodness as they may reflect work being done.   F For example, in the current RMS versions, when reading a shared files,; RMS with release and get a lock for every record processed.aF Therefor, the more locks the merrier! It means more work being done as requested by the programs.  F So... you'll have to explain a whole lot more about the application toI be allow this audience to help determine wheter 15K is good, bad or ugly.uI We'll need application 'style' (OLTP? BATCH?), Database used (RMS? RDB?),oJ Concurrency? (Users, Nodes), Database tuning levels (ever? never? always?)I CPU power (15000 is a lot for some VAXes, but a sneeze for a good ALPHA).t  - I'd start with a simple MONI MODE evaluation:a< More than 40% user mode / or less than 25% kernel/interuppt? Than do not worry about locks!     hth,3     Hein. (Written but not read. Time to go to bed)k   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:59:49 GMTl From: kparris@my-deja.comO Subject: Re: Locks) Message-ID: <8u763v$tms$1@nnrp1.deja.com>=  & "E. Higa" <higasan@pacbell.net> wrote:D > I'm looking for somewhere that will give good detailed informationH > regarding locks. running through monitor cluster the locks on one node > it the 15,000 mark at times.  H I'll disagree with Hein and say that if finding this high of a value was3 a big surprise to you, it is probably not "normal".a  F It would be nice if VMS had a MONITOR PROCESS/TOPLOCKS command, and itH would be really nice if VMS could identify the most-heavily-hit resource trees cluster-wide.e  G VMS does keep some helpful statistics on a per-resource-tree basis, buttG you have to dig a bit to be able to see them.  You might want to take aeF look at my DFWdays presentation called 'Monitoring and Controlling theF Lock Manager' -- see http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/.  I'd startH by using the LOCK_ACTV tool to find out what type of resource is getting: heavily hit with locking activity, and then go from there.  A I've run into cases where an undetected and unintended loop in an H application program could generate huge locking rates for at least briefC periods of time, and being able to identify which file was involved.E helped identify the program and lead to fixing the underlying programoH bug.  For example, I know that RMS caches things efficiently enough thatF on a GS-140, a program re-reading the same record from a relative fileE repeatedly in a loop can generate lock rates of more than 300,000 per-) second, while generating no I/O activity.0G -----------------------------------------------------------------------gG Keith Parris|Integrity Computing,Inc.|parris@decuserve.decus.org-nospam@F VMS Consulting: Clusters, Perf., Alpha porting, Storage&I/O, Internals    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 19:25:47 +01000) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)e5 Subject: Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??y! Message-ID: <nhdFiZ8akUBE@ludens>t   In article <1966635A0216D2119690AA0004001C050545609B@exchangecorp01.wawa.com>, "Bender, Jim E." <jim.e.bender@wawa.com> writes:s2 > We have a cluster of two Vax 7830's here running4 > VMS 7.1 that is exhibiting some baffling behavior. > 3 > Recently we experienced a situation where one of  0 > the startup files that SYSMAN was running on a) > reboot blew up and took SYSMAN with it.   8 I suggest that you change the way that sysman call this  startup file:    from default (/MODE=DIRECT) to  ) SYSMAN> STARTUP MODY filespec /MODE=SPAWN    or smilar, what you prefer..     > Normally, THAT wouldn'ta2 > be a problem either, since a suitably privileged0 > account is SUPPOSED to be able to override the > interactive login setting.  ; ( the OPER privilege in defpriv settings of sysuaf record )a     > 1 > What happens instead is we get NO login promptsl2 > whatsoever, and no response from any attempts to > connect to the system.    < 1, there was a mwait process that had a I/O channel to opa0: or 2, job controll hung temporary orJ 3, there is no connect (that time) to system disk (pagefile or loginout)  
 or any other a     >  We can use SYSMAN fromi0 > another system to see that the node is in fact0 > up and running, but no interactive connections/ > generate ANY response from the system.   NOT w" > EVEN ON THE CONSOLE!! (OPA0:)    > 0 > Using SYSMAN on another node I set interactive6 > logins to a non-zero value and BAM! we start getting > login prompts.   it seems a random situation...   > " > Any insight greatly appreciated!  > an usefull trick (when the console location is protected from  ordinary users)s  > insert a command file to the sysman's startup database in the 
 last entry  5 SYSMAN> STARTUP ADD /PHASE=END getsystemloggedin.com r  * or you systartup_vms.com, what you prefer)     where getsystemloggedin.com:& $ run/detach sys$system:loginout.exe -  	/name=PROCESS_NAME="OPA0 mgr" -
 	/input=OPA0:r 	/output=opa0:
 	/error=opa0:' $ exit  K and you get an "interactive" prompt even if most of the vms is not working.n  D (This is not interactive session: f$mode() .eqs. "OTHER", nor RECALL
 feature, etc)i    	 > Thanks,i > Jim Bender > VMS Systems Managerw
 > Wawa, Inc. a   Adam Maulisk   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:38:15 GMT) From: Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com> 5 Subject: Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??l+ Message-ID: <3A0732D7.631DE8F5@hotmail.com>D  D How did you fix the problem?  You didn't say whether or not this wasC local access via DZ, DH type device or terminal server type device.i  . 1. Terminal input priority varies from 4 to 7.H If a program is in a tight loop and running at a higher priority, you'llF never see a logon prompt at the terminals or at least for an extremely
 long time.F 2. The terminal drivers are loaded during boot up.  If the system blewC up before it even got to load them, then none of the terminals willl work.eA 3. It could be that the terminal drivers never got loaded and theuG console would not recognize input for an extremely long time due to lowe	 priority.    That's just a guess, though.   -jack'   "Bender, Jim E." wrote:   2 > We have a cluster of two Vax 7830's here running4 > VMS 7.1 that is exhibiting some baffling behavior. >l2 > Recently we experienced a situation where one of0 > the startup files that SYSMAN was running on a6 > reboot blew up and took SYSMAN with it.  The startup. > process exited and system startup ended with3 > the logout information.   Normally, this wouldn't-/ > be a huge problem as we could just log in andy2 > fix the bad startup file.   However, the problem2 > occurred before the number of interactive logins4 > were increased from zero.  Normally, THAT wouldn't2 > be a problem either, since a suitably privileged0 > account is SUPPOSED to be able to override the > interactive login setting. >d1 > What happens instead is we get NO login promptsa2 > whatsoever, and no response from any attempts to1 > connect to the system.   We can use SYSMAN from 0 > another system to see that the node is in fact0 > up and running, but no interactive connections. > generate ANY response from the system.   NOT > EVEN ON THE CONSOLE!! (OPA0:)f >p0 > Using SYSMAN on another node I set interactive6 > logins to a non-zero value and BAM! we start getting2 > login prompts.   This flies directly in the face1 > of the documented behavior of interactive logins4 > values, although where I actually saw this escapes/ > me now.   However, experiments on the running81 > system confirms that a suitably privileged userM1 > such as SYSTEM can in fact login if I first set 2 > interactive logins to zero.  Normal users cannot- > login, which is the expected behavior.  Theo3 > difference is we get login prompts and the system 4 > decides who to let in based upon their privileges.1 > In our startup failure situation, the system is 0 > locking EVERYONE out from EVERYWHERE by virtue0 > of not giving ANY login prompts or even system > identification.  >s0 > Anyone have any thoughts on what is happening?3 > I immediately fixed the errant procedure that wasu1 > causing SYSMAN to die, but since we continue tot1 > use SYSMAN it would be nice to know why this isb2 > happening in case it comes up again.   Note that3 > this was reported to DEQ support and after pokingH1 > around for a few hours told us that interactive 3 > logins were set to zero.  duh!   They didn't havea3 > an explanation for the no login prompts, however.L > " > Any insight greatly appreciated! > 	 > Thanks,L > Jim Bender > VMS Systems Managern > Wawa, Inc.   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:30:03 GMT- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>c5 Subject: Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??b( Message-ID: <3A085833.9736D2CC@ohio.edu>  G There is an echo in brain that VMS once upon a time behaved differentlytC if LOGINS were left at zero, in a scenario such as you describe, astG opposed to having been briefly above zero and then set back to zero.  IhH found that objectionable, since it meant having, however briefly, a time& when the non-zero value was in effect.  #                                 RDPv     "Bender, Jim E." wrote:W  2 > We have a cluster of two Vax 7830's here running4 > VMS 7.1 that is exhibiting some baffling behavior. >h2 > Recently we experienced a situation where one of0 > the startup files that SYSMAN was running on a6 > reboot blew up and took SYSMAN with it.  The startup. > process exited and system startup ended with3 > the logout information.   Normally, this wouldn'tl/ > be a huge problem as we could just log in and 2 > fix the bad startup file.   However, the problem2 > occurred before the number of interactive logins4 > were increased from zero.  Normally, THAT wouldn't2 > be a problem either, since a suitably privileged0 > account is SUPPOSED to be able to override the > interactive login setting. >-1 > What happens instead is we get NO login prompts 2 > whatsoever, and no response from any attempts to1 > connect to the system.   We can use SYSMAN froma0 > another system to see that the node is in fact0 > up and running, but no interactive connections. > generate ANY response from the system.   NOT > EVEN ON THE CONSOLE!! (OPA0:)  >e0 > Using SYSMAN on another node I set interactive6 > logins to a non-zero value and BAM! we start getting2 > login prompts.   This flies directly in the face1 > of the documented behavior of interactive logino4 > values, although where I actually saw this escapes/ > me now.   However, experiments on the running 1 > system confirms that a suitably privileged usere1 > such as SYSTEM can in fact login if I first seth2 > interactive logins to zero.  Normal users cannot- > login, which is the expected behavior.  The 3 > difference is we get login prompts and the systema4 > decides who to let in based upon their privileges.1 > In our startup failure situation, the system is.0 > locking EVERYONE out from EVERYWHERE by virtue0 > of not giving ANY login prompts or even system > identification.d >u0 > Anyone have any thoughts on what is happening?3 > I immediately fixed the errant procedure that was 1 > causing SYSMAN to die, but since we continue toa1 > use SYSMAN it would be nice to know why this ise2 > happening in case it comes up again.   Note that3 > this was reported to DEQ support and after pokingS1 > around for a few hours told us that interactive,3 > logins were set to zero.  duh!   They didn't have 3 > an explanation for the no login prompts, however.c >e" > Any insight greatly appreciated! > 	 > Thanks,, > Jim Bender > VMS Systems Manager  > Wawa, Inc.   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 20:42:39 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??g+ Message-ID: <C7GiK1D1e5B1@eisner.decus.org>>  X In article <3A085833.9736D2CC@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:I > There is an echo in brain that VMS once upon a time behaved differently)E > if LOGINS were left at zero, in a scenario such as you describe, asnI > opposed to having been briefly above zero and then set back to zero.  I J > found that objectionable, since it meant having, however briefly, a time( > when the non-zero value was in effect.  C I believe the first enabling started the Job Controller at its taskR of creating LOGINOUT processes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:23:24 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>u5 Subject: Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??r- Message-ID: <3A0A0A9C.70B7B280@earthlink.net>0   Uwe Zessin wrote:b > - > In article <C7GiK1D1e5B1@eisner.decus.org>,i> >   Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:A > > In article <3A085833.9736D2CC@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard"  > <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:A > > > There is an echo in brain that VMS once upon a time behavedhD > > > differently if LOGINS were left at zero, in a scenario such asD > > > you describe, as opposed to having been briefly above zero andB > > > then set back to zero.  I found that objectionable, since itC > > > meant having, however briefly, a time when the non-zero valueD > > > was in effect. > > G > > I believe the first enabling started the Job Controller at its tasks# > > of creating LOGINOUT processes./ > E > Correct. I found that out the hard way on my first VMS upgrade manytI > years ago. I wanted to be 'clever' and set 'STARTUP$INTERACTIVE_LOGINS'h# > to 0 to keep any users off. Oops.a > E > Later I used 'SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE=1', 'SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE=0' A > in SYSTARTUP so I could log in (with OPER privilege, of course)r> > on a local terminal port while the system was still booting.  0 Umm, ... I hate to put a damper on all this but:    DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sys/noprocC OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node DJAS01   8-NOV-2000 20:50:09.03  Uptime  11w 06:25:188 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ search sys$startup:*.com interactive_   ******************************5 SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM;1a  ! $startup$interactive_logins == 64N   ******************************5 SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]VMS$LPBEGIN-050_STARTUP.COM;1n  3 $set logins/interactive='startup$interactive_logins   G STARTUP$INTERACTIVE_LOGINS is the mechanism that the startup procedures.> use. How they use it is shown above. They're one and the same.  E The answer to the question is, and I wouldn't know when it would havecD changed, if ever, is that with logins set to 0, you will still get aF Username prompt on any "available" terminal. Otherwise, OPER privilege% would be meaningless except at OPA0:.:  A "Available" in this context means any terminal configured and is,sH therefore, sensitive to whether or not the startup procedures bombed outB which was, I believe, part of the original premise of this thread.  G Apparently, there is some "magic" that occurs when the startup sequence G enables logins for the first time, such that even OPA0: is unresponsivetG if that process fails; however, the original post fails to (explicitly)pE indicate whether the OPA0 situation was resolved by this. Once loginsdH have been enabled, users with OPER priv. by default can login, even when1 IJOBLIM is set back to zero (SET LOGINS/INTER=0).k  F By the way - I've had to blow the STARTUP process away in my time longC before logins were enabled. Even OPA0 was available even so. So, myn" experience does not bear this out.  H Still, I think Jim Bender saw something else besides the startup processC failure leaving logins disabled. A more likely scenario is that theeF STARTUP process hung before enabling logins, leaving VMS to believe itC was still in a "starting" state; thus, no Username prompts, even at5 "available" terminals.   Just my $0.02 worth...   -- . David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/5  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 06:49:29 GMT 8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>5 Subject: Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??e( Message-ID: <3A09A1BF.9C74D648@decus.fi>  1 For many years and many, many versions, I've onlyd done   	$ set logins/inter=0s  3 and it will do the trick. Also, I have usually somes	 code likee   	$ if somecond .nes. ""V 	$ then $ 	$  startup$interactive_logins :== 0	 	$  exit s 	$ endif  6 in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and this will nicely disable user2 logins but I have always been able to login due to8 possessing OPER privilege. Of course my memory with this issuek' goes to back to versions like V5 or so.e   _veli    Uwe Zessin wrote:l > - > In article <C7GiK1D1e5B1@eisner.decus.org>,e> >   Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:A > > In article <3A085833.9736D2CC@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard"  > <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:A > > > There is an echo in brain that VMS once upon a time behaved D > > > differently if LOGINS were left at zero, in a scenario such asD > > > you describe, as opposed to having been briefly above zero andB > > > then set back to zero.  I found that objectionable, since itC > > > meant having, however briefly, a time when the non-zero valuet > > > was in effect. > >eG > > I believe the first enabling started the Job Controller at its taskr# > > of creating LOGINOUT processes.  > E > Correct. I found that out the hard way on my first VMS upgrade manyWI > years ago. I wanted to be 'clever' and set 'STARTUP$INTERACTIVE_LOGINS's# > to 0 to keep any users off. Oops.i > E > Later I used 'SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE=1', 'SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE=0'cA > in SYSTARTUP so I could log in (with OPER privilege, of course)h> > on a local terminal port while the system was still booting. >  > -- > Uwe Zessin > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:19:58 +0000e* From: Ed Dennison <ed.dennison@compaq.com>5 Subject: Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??c* Message-ID: <3A0A6C3D.CBF68C12@compaq.com>   Jim,  G  When you issue the command SET LOGIN/INTERACTIVE=<any number includingpH zero> the command, amongst other things, clears a flag in the mailbox ofC the JOB_CONTROL process. Until this flag is clear no-one, including-* privileged users, may login to the system.  B  You can check the setting of the flag by using SDA to examine the	 mailbox -   !  SDA> EXAMINE @SYS$AR_JOBCTLMB+7Dt  F This location would contain 00 if a SET LOGIN/INTERACTIVE=<any number>D has been issued. If the command has not been issued it would containF 80(hex). Until this flag (referred to as the UCB$V_TT_NOLOGINS bit) is3 cleared no logins (whatever privilege) are allowed.e  H  It is not correct to say (as the title of the topic implied) that a SETE LOGIN/INTEARCTIVE=0 disables logins. This used to be correct up until C about 1987 (cant remember what version of VMS). But since then thegB principle has been - so long as the command is executed logins areD allowed. If the value is zero then only privileged users may log in.  B  I suppose the principle is - make sure a SET LOGIN/INTERACTIVE is( executed somewhere in the boot sequence.      Regards,u       Ed Dennisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:38:07 +0000r+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>o5 Subject: Re: login prompts inhibited with logins=0 ??S' Message-ID: <3A0B193F.3ECF72E5@iee.org>e   Ed Dennison wrote:   Hi Ed !P  I >  When you issue the command SET LOGIN/INTERACTIVE=<any number includingiJ > zero> the command, amongst other things, clears a flag in the mailbox ofE > the JOB_CONTROL process. Until this flag is clear no-one, includingt, > privileged users, may login to the system.  = Correct. In fact, back in the VMS V4 days there was a commenty; is SYSTARTUP.COM (or whatever it was called back then) that 6 pointed out the potential for "no login to the system"6 unless SET LOGIN/INTER was issued. The startup command5 procedure had been changed to ensure that the commandT0 was always issued even in the event of an error.  5 The implication was that this had been fixed sometime ; in V3 or even V2 (but I wasn't managing systems back then).    Antonior   -- i   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgt   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:40:35 GMTn+ From: Craig A. Berry <calepine@my-deja.com>a9 Subject: Re: Memory test or 'public' diagnostic for AS200D) Message-ID: <8u1s83$snl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>p  3 In article <yeGM5.863$z93.121509@news.goodnet.com>,..   rjordan@mars.mcs.net (Richard Jordan) wrote:@ > The SRM firmware on my Alphastation 200 apparently has no test command,D > or any way to test memory (beyond what POST does).  It is from the; > V5.1 firmware CD, don't recall the SRM version right now.o  G I think the CD rev is 5.8 or 5.9 now and the SRM rev 7.0-9, but I don'trC think you'll find a memory exerciser at the firmware level.  You're-F more likely to find NT software than VMS software designed to do that,E but for me Mozilla for OVMS worked just as well :-).  My AS 200 4/233tC running OVMS 7.2-1 was having frequent but seemingly random machineiC checks, and it would recursively bugcheck without ever completing a C crash dump file.  I couldn't find any sequence of events that wouldTE make it happen every time until I installed Mozilla; starting that uplF crashed the machine first time and every time and allowed me eliminateD various things like the power supply (rock solid voltages during the crash).r  E It turned out to be not the new memory I had installed but the memoryoF that was in the machine when I bought it that was bad; after replacingD that everything's been hunky dory and even Mozilla runs pretty well.E N.B.: this was my first ever attempt at hardware diagnosis and otherst may adise you better..    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------    Date: 05 Nov 2000 20:15:51 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>o" Subject: Re: Microsoft gets hacked7 Message-ID: <rjq8zqyd37s.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>Y  . "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com> writes:  D > There have been reports (on places like slashdot.org) that someone? > has been offering NT source code, and also cautions to anyonehB > developing free software NOT to look. It appears the breakers inC > want to sell, but it is claimed they don't have Windows 2000, norA* > office source code, nor even windows ME. > @ > This incident could be used by Microsoft to sue people who getD > their functionality too close to what Microsoft has, on the theoryB > that any such close duplication "must" be a result of having theA > code, and with no evidence needed that such is indeed the case.m  : If i was going to sue someone for stealing my idears, then+ NT is the LAST thing I'd want to depend on.   . Minor details like providence and discovery...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2000 21:38:45 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)u4 Subject: Re: Need help with $GETUAI in wildcard-mode+ Message-ID: <bWkW4s70cSNG@eisner.decus.org>r  Y In article <00110314394969@lto.locktrack.com>, l_ricker@lto.locktrack.com (Lorin) writes:s  O > Problem is one of documentation (or its lack) in how, exactly, to use $GETUAIaL > calls to sequentially return records, and to "fetch by wildcard username":  6 Are you sure $GETUAI supports wildcard lookup at all ?? Other $GETxxx calls do so, but I am not sure that $GETUAI does.   N >    `OpenVMS System Services Reference Manual (GETQUI-Z)' (p.SYS2-67ff) givesK >    contradictory advice:  "usrnam" is simply "Name of the user about whom L >    $GETUAI returns authorization information."  But on next page, "contxt"K >    is "Longword used to maintain authorization file context... On initialnK >    call, this longword should contain the value -1.  On subsequent calls,aC >    the value... from the previous call should be passed back in."p  F The fact that there is an argument named "contxt" does not necessarilyA mean that it supports wildcard operations.  I believe that if you3? supply "contxt" it does make successive calls more efficient by:A keeping your executive-mode channel to SYSUAF open between calls.3  C You better hang on to that "contxt" value, though, because there istB no call to close the channel, so if you make successive calls with8 new "contxt" variable, you will eventually use up FILLM.  O >    Note:  I'm *not* a novice/confused about VMS datatypes, parameters, systemtL >    services, itemlists, passing mechanisms, etc.  Problem is that the doc-O >    pages don't tell nearly enough to do/explain what I want/need, so I'm leftlK >    guessing about what the "magic" is to do a sequence gets from $GETUAI.i > L >    This kind of thing *must* be possible, since I'm imagining that the VMSM >    AUTHORIZE utility uses $GETUAI to support command lines like UAF> SHOW * M >    and UAF> SHOW /BRIEF SYS*, and even UAF> SHOW /BRIEF [1,*], for example.rJ >    What transformation magic must be going on between the command line's9 >    wildcard and the actual $GETUAI parameter/call, huh?m  D I don't believe AUTHORIZE uses $GETUAI/$SETUAI.  It predates them byA about 10 years.  I believe AUTHORIZE manipulates SYSUAF directly,s? like you (wisely) try to avoid.  The difference between you andt@ them is not programming ability but the fact that if they decideA to change the way SYSUAF data is stored they can change AUTHORIZEmB in the same VMS release where they change the SYSUAF access rules.A They guarantee that $GETUAI/$SETUAI and AUTHORIZE will still worki1 in future versions, but they don't guarantee how.m  K > 3. NB to VMS Engr'g/Documentation:  The item-code UAI$_USERNAME, found bytL >    inspection in (for example) SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET.PAS, is undocumented inK >    both the $GETUAI and $SETUAI sections of the System Services Ref. Mnl.   @ I believe that is intentional due to the fact that what you feedD in to $GETUAI is the Username.  Thus the output would not be useful.A If $GETUAI were enhanced in the future to support wildcards, thenc UAI$_USERNAME would be useful.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:35:41 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)4 Subject: Re: Need help with $GETUAI in wildcard-modeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0311002235420001@user-2ivebfh.dialup.mindspring.com>  X In article <00110314394969@lto.locktrack.com>, l_ricker@lto.locktrack.com (Lorin) wrote:  N > Environment: VMS V7.2, nothing fancy --- I'm working on a little applicationP > to make tracking/reporting user-account data in SYSUAF a bit more "relational-M > like".  I'm trying to do this "by the rule-book", i.e., no cheating by just O > opening SYSUAF.DAT as an RMS-indexed file, fetching by username key, and thenoO > just carving data out of fixed offsets... nope, gonna use $GETUAI() calls "bysN > the book" so's not to get caught by some future-enhancement change.  Good on	 > me, eh?w > O > Problem is one of documentation (or its lack) in how, exactly, to use $GETUAIyL > calls to sequentially return records, and to "fetch by wildcard username": > J > 1. How to set up $GETUAI argument list, including "usrnam" and "contxt",L >    to get a "wildcard-fetch", one record after another?  Or, failing that,8 >    just return *all* records in the file sequentially?  G This is a little bit weird.  I don't think $getuai will do it.  You can I come close by using sys$idtoasc, which DOES have wild card ability.  This:K will scan through all the rights IDs and turn them into ascii form.  You'llnH get IDs that aren't UICs, and you'll have to discard them by hand.  UICsE without matching IDs will fall through the cracks, but that might noto! be important in your application.)  F I can send you a short Fortran program that scans this way if it would be of interest.n   -- b Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 12:49:49 -0500y9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)i4 Subject: Re: Need help with $GETUAI in wildcard-mode+ Message-ID: <kvp1m0YNAksR@eisner.decus.org>   Y In article <00110608394941@lto.locktrack.com>, l_ricker@lto.locktrack.com (Lorin) writes:h  F > BTW, does anyone recall a pointer to documentation on the RMS recordG > layout for the SYSUAF.DAT file?  Seems to me like there was indeed an I > appendix on this topic in "ancient" VMS docs, but also recall that thisgE > (probably) disappeared with the advent of the $GET/SETUAI services.< > H > A copy of record layout doc would be much appreciated (in any form)...I > I can reverse engineer, but would appreciate the boost if someone's got  > it to share...  4 	$ search sys$library:lib.req $uafdef/window=(0,171)   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 13:38 -0400" From: hein@miasys (SYSTEM MANAGER)4 Subject: Re: Need help with $GETUAI in wildcard-mode% Message-ID: <6NOV200013383335@miasys>u  [ In article <00110608394941@lto.locktrack.com>, l_ricker@lto.locktrack.com (Lorin) writes...i : E >BTW, does anyone recall a pointer to documentation on the RMS record F >layout for the SYSUAF.DAT file?  Seems to me like there was indeed anH >appendix on this topic in "ancient" VMS docs, but also recall that thisD >(probably) disappeared with the advent of the $GET/SETUAI services.  G Trust me, you don't want that. Just use the USERNAME field, 4 bytes in,,K 32 bytes long (12 used) and use GETUAI for the rest as per example I posted  a week back.  K If you want to spruce up the code a little, attach some XABKEY's to the FABMJ on the open (or to be even cleaner open with XABSUM, construct XABKEY listH and call SYS$DISPLAY). The use the position(s) and length(s) returned inF the XABKEY for key=0 as the usernamee field descriptor. That should be; upgrade proof (allthough this will not change anyway IMHO).*  C You can find the layout for the sysuaf record in $UAFDEF in LIB.MLBt  6 libr/out=sys$output/extrac=$UAFDEF sys$Library:lib.mlb  ; libr/out=sys$output/extrac=UAFDEF sys$Library:sys$LIB_C.TLBe   Hein.H   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 19:16:21 GMT ! From: Fatz <fatz_nyc@my-deja.com>w  Subject: Nested DCL symbol names) Message-ID: <8uet5u$9uq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>l  F All this talk about symbol substitution has got me thinking.  Consider this:e   $ opt_1 := first $ opt_2 := second: $ opt_3 := third $ pfx_first := bart  $ pfx_second := homer  $ pfx_third := marge $i5 $ read/end=eof/prompt="[1, 2 or 3]> " sys$command numt  B Up until now, to get the values of pfx_* assigned to, for example, VALUE, I have always done:   $ temp = opt_'num' $ value = pfx_'temp'  A but I'm just wondering if anyone has come across a slicker way ofo	 doing it.t   $ value = pfx_'(opt_'num')'    I *wish* ;-)     Fatz.l    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 16:50 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s$ Subject: Re: Nested DCL symbol names, Message-ID: <9NOV200016503792@gerg.tamu.edu>  O In article <8uet5u$9uq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Fatz <fatz_nyc@my-deja.com> writes...vG }All this talk about symbol substitution has got me thinking.  ConsiderB }this: }  }$ opt_1 := firsts }$ opt_2 := second }$ opt_3 := thirdo }$ pfx_first := bart }$ pfx_second := homer }$ pfx_third := margeu }$6 }$ read/end=eof/prompt="[1, 2 or 3]> " sys$command num } C }Up until now, to get the values of pfx_* assigned to, for example,e }VALUE, I have always done:  }  }$ temp = opt_'num'. }$ value = pfx_'temp't } B }but I'm just wondering if anyone has come across a slicker way of
 }doing it. }  }$ value = pfx_'(opt_'num')' } 
 }I *wish* ;-)  }Fatz.   If you just do this instead:   $ opt_1 := pfx_first $ opt_2 := pfx_secondl $ opt_3 := pfx_third   You can do a   $ value = &opt_'num'  I (of course, at that point you may as well skip the two level substitutionoF and just make opt_N list equal to the end results in the first place).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 01:21:17 GMTc+ From: "Yeah, right..." <wild@intercomm.com>?" Subject: Newbie configuration info8 Message-ID: <c0jkvsoqi2ah98c0ihh90brrh7bf17nmbq@4ax.com>  ; I'm brand new to VMS, and  I'm looking for a good source ofkE information on configuring a new machine.  I'm running VMS-VAX 7.2 on$; a VAXstation 3100/m76 SPX.  I need all the basics of systeme1 configuration.  Where are the good FAQ's?.  Thanxi   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:56:24 -0600O7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>s& Subject: Re: Newbie configuration info- Message-ID: <3A04CC58.37288842@earthlink.net><   "Yeah, right..." wrote:r > = > I'm brand new to VMS, and  I'm looking for a good source of:G > information on configuring a new machine.  I'm running VMS-VAX 7.2 onp= > a VAXstation 3100/m76 SPX.  I need all the basics of systemV3 > configuration.  Where are the good FAQ's?.  ThanxG   Try:  6 http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html   -- s David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:12:19 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>I3 Subject: Re: No doubts here (Was: Re: Galaxy doubt)A, Message-ID: <3A0B132D.341C382C@videotron.ca>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:tI > OpenVMS.  The renaissance is real, the future is real and the future isa? > OpenVMS.  The commitment to OpenVMS comes right from the top.-  J While there is perhaps a greater hope than in the past, I feel it is stillB premature to state this. Palmer on many occasions had made similarL "commitments" to VMS. Didn't Palmer make some sort of long term "government"1 commitment similar to the current DII CEO thing ?e  D The DII CEO thing is a waste of money IN MY OPINION. It gives CompaqN absolutely no credibility with regards to VMS because we've all been told manyL times in the past that Digital was committed to VMS and a few week later, weM saw ads urging VMS customers to migrate to UNIX. For the past decade, VMS hasOK been ignored in the marketing, except for a few isolated spurts to calm thenD customers when they got too loud about the "Digital is killing VMS".  V Until I see VMS mentioned in TV adds instead of Proliant servers, I reserve judgement.  J To me, all the DII CEO thing means is that VMS will be maintained for someM time to come. I see no commitment to PUSH VMS and to make VMS compete againstTK Windows,  and Unix. Keeping a product alive is very different from making aV# product succeed in the marketplace.a  I > else, you don't spend the kind of cash that Compaq have spent on recent L > work on something that has only a few months to live.  OpenVMS is here and > is here to stay.  I Those balls are cute, but so far, the marketing gimmicks on VMS have been H targetted at those who contacted Compaq and asked to be put on a list toK receive any hints on whether VMS was still alive of not. It is a good firstRH step to tell your existing (patient and loyal) customers that Compaq hasK finally gotten around to acknowledging the existance of VMS.  But until VMSnM has the guts to advertise VMS publicly and pit it against unix and Windows, Ih9 don't see much difference in the growth potential of VMS.O  L The first step of giving hints to the existing customer base that Compaq hasN acknowledge VMS' existence will probably help slow the rate at which remaining& customers are migrating away from VMS.M So it is still at a stage where they are worried about slowing the decline ofs VMS, not trying to grow it.w  N Perhaps they have intentions of growing VMS once the bleeding has stopped. ButG perhaps their intentions are really only to control the bleeding of VMS J revenus to a rate that is below the growth rate of its other businesses soP that Compaq as a whole still appears to grow to the Wall Street Casino analysts.  I If provides Compaq with such significant revenus and profits, how come it,8 cannot get enough marketing budget to stand on its own ?  K Are they using VMS revenus to subsidize the wintel side of the business andsM spend it on wintel advertising ? That is tantamount to Compaq using the money.M it gets from VMS to advertise the microsoft products that reduce VMS revenus.a  J > Real cash and real work is going into pulling software vendors back, notD > least of which must be the DII COE work since it provides a common > environment.  F > As for Sun bloodying Compaq's nose - it's only because they can't do > better.<<<    L Look at the current TV ads. Compaq is pushing hippies to install tiny wintelL servers in the VW van, while Sun is pushing is "the DOT" that will kill your+ competitors before they know what hit them.   K Which is more effective ? Selling me-too wintel servers, or selling serversnL that will give your company such an edge that it will leave your competitors left behind in the dust ?o  L As long as Compaq insists on shoving only its wintel 8086s in its marketing,H it will remain a PC-me-too company and Sun will continue to maintain its, *image* of a more serious enterprise company    K > Compaq would not be putting the big bucks into development of VMS if theyeH > did not consider that it would be around for the more than foreseeable	 > future.n  F DII CEO is not bad, and it will give VMS a easier time of porting UNIXL software. But if Compaq had made a more significant commitment TO THE PUBLICJ by using that money to advertise VMS openly, wouldn't software houses have: been even more convinced of the future of porting to VMS ?  N Few people know what DII CEO is. Even fewer care. What is important is whetherN Compaq is willing to openly  pit VMS against Unix and Windows and allow VMS to prosper publicly.m  L As long as Compaq continues to keep VMS under wraps, VMS will continue to beN contained in a small box of existing customers. They may be happier with theirJ flashing balls and that DII CEO may make them feel less hurried to migrateI away from VMS, but what is really needed is to let VMS out of the box andlL should to the world "HEY I AM STILL ALIVE AND KICKING AND I AM ABOUT TO KICK SOME BUTT".     B > The DII COE work requires at least 20 years commitment to the OS > which gives a good window.    I 20 years on paper. But I am sure that any computer company signing such aeE "contract" has some sort of loophole that allows them an out. Compaq,d+ Microsoft et all may not exist in 20 years.n  J > statement immediately.  You do not cut children that you have invested aI > lot of money in and which continue to provide excellent returns on that 
 > investment.   M Bob GQ Palmer did, and did so prematurely, causing a small decline of VMS dueaL to the appearance of Sun to turn into a massive decline into oblivion. Bobby? thought he could convert VMS sites into Unix and then into NT. -  I The fact that Compaq, which had studied and worked with Bobby for 3 yearsnK prior to the take-over did not immediatly see the value of VMS and start toeL take steps to reverse the damage caused by Bobby is an indication to me thatC Compaq did not have real ambitions with VMS when it bought Digital.r  E > There is no doubt that VMS is safe in Compaq's hands and for that IA > publically thank Compaq.  J I am not convinced, yet. This could very well be a short lived increase inN focus for VMS that will quickly return to the quiet forgottn VMS that has been  the case for the last few years.  H To me, that DII CEO thing has far less weight than a single TV ad on CNN? flaunting VMS's strengths against Sun and Microsoft's products.o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:28:26 -0500' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>n6 Subject: Re: Non-OpenVMS question (to Andrew Harrison)( Message-ID: <8uf537$asu$1@pyrite.mv.net>  : Jordan Henderson <jordan@lisa.gemair.com> wrote in message$ news:8u9vda$qo0$1@lisa.gemair.com...+ > In article <3A08104A.59DF9324@gtech.com>, A > Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=  <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote: - > >fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:aL > >> Do you know if the QFS file system is a good choice instead of the VxFS forA > >> example ? > >>2 > >> http://www.lsci.com/lsci/products/product.htm > >>% > >> Is this company LSCI trustable ?a > >  > >Why ask him ? > >vJ > >He is very good at saying SUN's products are good and Compaq's are bad. > >t< > >But do not trust him as a source for technical solutions. > >s >tA > In any case, please take it to comp.os.solaris or comp.sys.sun.a  L But if he wants to talk with Andrew, it's not clear he can find him there...  J [I often think that Andrew presents a more balanced view than many in thisJ forum, but I've got to admit to a certain curiosity about why he spends so much time here.]   - bill   >E > >Arneu >  > -Jordan Hendersonm > jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:43:07 -0600a7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e% Subject: Re: Number of users exceeded - Message-ID: <3A0393DB.76B79C17@earthlink.net>    Javier Henderson wrote:s > ; > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:e >  > >I > > "antonio.carlini" wrote: > > >e > > > pasmith@ppg.com wrote: > > > >eL > > > > Our users have recently started getting the message Number of UsersN > > > > Exceeded when they try to log in.  To get around this, we simply giveM > > > > their accounts oper privileges (the users connect to a command fileeN > > > > with no way to get out of it except to log out).  Is there a parameter > > >t> > > > You may not have realised but you don't have to give theI > > > accounts OPER as an AUTHORIZED priv, it can just be a DEFAULT priv.A > >AK > > If memory serves, it *MUST* be a default privilege (in force by defaulth9 > > at login time) in order to subvert "logins disabled".a > > , > > ...but, and as always, I could be wrong. > E >         I may be misunderstanding the whole thread, but this soundsaG > like the max interactive login is set too low for the need, so rathereC > than giving OPER privs indiscriminately, how about upping the max5 > interactive login number?m  A Well, that depends - mostly on whether or not you have the SYSTEM C password. If not, you need OPER by default so you can login and SETf LOGINS/INTER=xxx..   --   David J. Dachtera4 dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 18:15:04 -0600b7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>a% Subject: Re: Number of users exceeded - Message-ID: <3A05F808.8F54F2DF@earthlink.net>k   John Santos wrote: > [snip]9 > Surprisingly, the correct procedure (assign a symbol inyD > systartup_vms.com) doesn't seem to be documented in either the FAQ > or in systartup_vms.template!  > 
 > Example: > % > $ startup$interactive_logins == 250, >  > to set the logins to 250.*   True. However:  8 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ search sys$startup:*.com logins         ******************************5 SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM;1l  ! $startup$interactive_logins == 64o   ******************************5 SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]VMS$LPBEGIN-050_STARTUP.COM;1   3 $set logins/interactive='startup$interactive_logins    ...does provide some clues.t  0 One change I would recommend that Compaq make to VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM is:a  6 $startup$interactive_logins == 'f$getsyi( "ijoblim" )'  F This would provide a more-or-less documented way to set this at systemH startup time (by way of MODPARAMS) since this parameter is documented inH "System Management Utilities M-Z" in the system parameters potion of theB SYSGEN documentation (I think - it might actually be in the system6 parameters appendix - don't have the hard copy handy).   -- c David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 18:33:02 -0600t7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>dG Subject: Re: One for the storage gurus: shadowsets between HSJ and HSGs4- Message-ID: <3A05FC3E.A43EA4DA@earthlink.net>:   Scott Vieth wrote: >  > Hi:l > I > I'm trying to devise a plan to migrate some large data files from disks1 > behindF > HSJ controllers to disks that are behind HSG controllers.  The Alpha > systemJ > in question will be connected to both the HSJ and HSG controllers at the > same time.H > [The HSGs are living in ESA12000s, not the new-fangled universal drive
 > arrays.] > H > The data already lives on VolShad shadow volumes.  I'd like to migrate
 > the dataH > from the HSJs to the HSGs by simply adding a disk from the HSGs as the+ > third member to the existing shadow sets.r > I > One of the main problems with this plan is that the disks with the HSJse > are 4GB while the disks J > behind the HSGs are 18GB.  Could I use some of the 18GB drives to create > a RAID5 raidsettH > and then carve that raidset into partitions that are approximately 4GB > in size?  Would thisH > fool VolShad well enough so that I could create a shadow unit with one > disk from the HSJ arrays# > and one disk from the HSG arrays?o > H > Does VolShad still requires that all members of a shadow volume be the > same exact size?8 > I thought there was talk of removing that requirement.  D I've no documentation available, but I believe the restrictions wereE relaxed such that you could shadow an "xGB" disk onto an "x.1GB" diske- (for example). Haven't tried it yet though...n   -- a David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 04:42:20 GMTn From: "**** ****" <***@***.com>m Subject: Re: open an Imac?> Message-ID: <MmrM5.22239$G95.6131922@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>    Bob Koehler wrote in message ... > H >  Before I dice into a flood of Mac newgroup messages, does anyone here2 >  happend to know how to open the case on a iMac?    H Simple. Assuming that you can't obtain 12 ounces of demolitions grade c4J plastic explosive, a nice substitute can be made with ingredients commonlyK available at the local supermarket. This "poor man's plastique" will easilyeG and quickly open the iMac's case, and in all likelyhood fix a number of$L other iMac-specific problems. Just be careful to hide behind something solidJ which gives adequate cover while detonating. Never detonate your plastiqueJ from less than 50 yards away from ground zero. Be sure to detonate it in aK safe area, away from people, animals, or large glass windows. As always, it 3 pays to be safe when repairing or configuring macs.*   Hope I've been helpful,u John   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:25:57 +0100% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> . Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.1-2 and cluster forming. Message-ID: <8ub2mk$mhl$1@info.service.rug.nl>  5 "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message =t0 news:200011080753.IAA02557@sinet1.fom.fgan.de... > Hello, >=20H > since our upgrade of OpenVMS from 7.1-1H1 to 7.1-2 we can't reboot ourD > bootserver. In the previous version, we could reboot without any = problem.9 > Sometimes a reboot of the bootserver is nesseray like =r dismounted/mountedH > failure, installed patches. Also should a after crash reboot function.C > IMHO, yesterday I found the case for our problem. A new forming =t policy.rH > After reboot I did see, that the bootserver sends a membership requestH > to one of the satellites. Then it lost the path (Closed virtuel port).H > The bootserver disconnects the network (transciever and speed LED go = off)G > and nothing happens any more. In the previous version of OpenVMS, the G > bootserver did not send any membership request and all the satellitesiG > did send there membership request to the bootserver. IMHO, that was =P the H > right way, because it eliminates some problems, when the booting nodesE > lost the path to this member (the node hangs). Now, every member, =.	 includingsC > the bootserver, sends a membership request to the node with the =f highest nameH > (alphabetical order). In case of this, the bootserver can't reboot (itH > hangs), or the whole cluster reboots. May be, the new policy is also = thetH > reason for the hang of a lot of clustermembers (8 of 30) after a wholeG > cluster "clueexit" crash. Is there any patch out, which do reenable =t theaH > old behavior (that I can reboot the bootserver without any effect to = theoF > satellites)? I think the new behavior is a blame for OpenVMS and un-" > acceptable in a production area. >=20  > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert >=20 >=20  + I think this has always been the policy.=20tF A booting VMS system always asks a cluster member to join the cluster.C This has been so since VMS 4.0. There never has been any difference-J between servers and satellites regarding the way how to join an existing = cluster.@ However, this is not what is usually called "cluster formation".H Cluster formation is when there is no cluster and the first few system = boot and form the cluster.I In your case, however, there is already a cluster and the booting node=20O should join the cluster.  A I think that your problem is that the network connection fails=20aH (transciever and speed LED go off). I have seen a similar problem when = tryingC to boot a satellite. The problem was that the switch to which the = 
 satellite wasiJ connected had a rather long reset time. The reset was triggered when the =	 satellitetI did an init to the Ethernet device. Since the network did not came back =t fast enoughdG the satellite did another init and the switch did another reset, etc. =I After we started9 to use a different ethernet switch, the problem was over. - I can imagine that you see a similar problem.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:01:18 -0500r2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger). Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.1-2 and cluster formingL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0911001801180001@user-2ive69p.dialup.mindspring.com>  ^ In article <200011080753.IAA02557@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote:   > Hello, > H > since our upgrade of OpenVMS from 7.1-1H1 to 7.1-2 we can't reboot ourK > bootserver. In the previous version, we could reboot without any problem.aJ > Sometimes a reboot of the bootserver is nesseray like dismounted/mountedH > failure, installed patches. Also should a after crash reboot function.I > IMHO, yesterday I found the case for our problem. A new forming policy.nH > After reboot I did see, that the bootserver sends a membership requestH > to one of the satellites. Then it lost the path (Closed virtuel port).K > The bootserver disconnects the network (transciever and speed LED go off)iG > and nothing happens any more. In the previous version of OpenVMS, thedG > bootserver did not send any membership request and all the satellitescI > did send there membership request to the bootserver. IMHO, that was the H > right way, because it eliminates some problems, when the booting nodesM > lost the path to this member (the node hangs). Now, every member, includingsN > the bootserver, sends a membership request to the node with the highest nameH > (alphabetical order). In case of this, the bootserver can't reboot (itJ > hangs), or the whole cluster reboots. May be, the new policy is also theH > reason for the hang of a lot of clustermembers (8 of 30) after a wholeI > cluster "clueexit" crash. Is there any patch out, which do reenable theiJ > old behavior (that I can reboot the bootserver without any effect to theF > satellites)? I think the new behavior is a blame for OpenVMS and un-" > acceptable in a production area.  ' I don't think the behavior has changed.-  F Check your network.  While joining the cluster, your server should notD give up.  But a network problem could cause a total lack of progess.  Check your votes- and quorum-related parameters, for the server and the other cluster members.  If the node is expecting too many votes, it would hang. But the rest of the cluster should be hung as well, unless your parameters are not consistent from machine to machine.  The normal behavior upon booting is to search the network for other members of the cluster.  If any are found, one of them gives permission for the newly-booted member to join.  After a waiting period, if no other member is found, the node decides it is the first member in the cluster, and starts over with a cluster of one node.  The waiting period is determined by a system parameter.  (I don't remember the name.)  Has yours perhaps been changed to something very short?  t Could you have changed the cluster group number or cluster password?  Maybe it's trying to join a different cluster?   Do you have an operator terminal enabled on the existing cluster nodes?  Does a node log a request to join the cluster?  If not, your newly-booted node is never making contact.   -- k Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:33:05 -0500w/ From: "Howard E. Arnold" <arnoldh@celerent.com>h/ Subject: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 servicese? Message-ID: <NEBBKBPAMLAEPFNHOPFBAECACBAA.arnoldh@celerent.com>   H We are having a problem on an OpenVMS 7.2 system running TCP/IP servicesK V5.0-9 which came with OpenVMS 7.2.  We can ping to the machine fine but ifJH we try and telnet into the box the telnet sessions are very slow or hangJ completely.  I have look at the ask openvms service on the Compaq site andJ they seem to recommend that we go to TCP/IP 5.0a.  How do we get this? CanG we pull it down from somewhere?  I have looked for it but can't find ite	 anywhere.s   Thanks   Howard   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 22:18:48 +0100-* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 services * Message-ID: <3a0b14b8$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  q In article <NEBBKBPAMLAEPFNHOPFBAECACBAA.arnoldh@celerent.com>, "Howard E. Arnold" <arnoldh@celerent.com> writes: I >We are having a problem on an OpenVMS 7.2 system running TCP/IP servicestL >V5.0-9 which came with OpenVMS 7.2.  We can ping to the machine fine but ifI >we try and telnet into the box the telnet sessions are very slow or hangnK >completely.  I have look at the ask openvms service on the Compaq site andtK >they seem to recommend that we go to TCP/IP 5.0a.  How do we get this? CaniH >we pull it down from somewhere?  I have looked for it but can't find it
 >anywhere.  G Yes, this is a known bug of TCPIP up to V5.0-10 (which is called V5.0A)a7 It is fixed in V5.0-11 (which is also called V5.0A !!). K There is now an ECO1 for TCPIP V5.0A (better use the -11 to apply the ECO).s  I TCPIP is an huge package and DEC/Q never offered a VMS commercial product*G for downloading so far. Only ECOs (where sometimes an ECO is a completea installation kit)...  8 btw: Why not ? They are all LMF secured, so why bother ?I Is is a bandwidth/webserver issue ? No, it seems only politics, but why ?rK Only to get money for the VMS ConDist CDs (which are extremly overpriced) ?2  D So, as the VMS Hobbyist CD media package still contains the old kit,D you're SOL until you find a friend with a VMS condist to copy it, orF order the TCPIP CD media kit or order the VMS condist package/service.     -- e< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888s< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 22:29:54 GMTh2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 servicese6 Message-ID: <8uf8h2$o48$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  q In article <NEBBKBPAMLAEPFNHOPFBAECACBAA.arnoldh@celerent.com>, "Howard E. Arnold" <arnoldh@celerent.com> writes:eI :We are having a problem on an OpenVMS 7.2 system running TCP/IP servicesiL :V5.0-9 which came with OpenVMS 7.2.  We can ping to the machine fine but ifI :we try and telnet into the box the telnet sessions are very slow or hang K :completely.  I have look at the ask openvms service on the Compaq site and K :they seem to recommend that we go to TCP/IP 5.0a.  How do we get this? CantH :we pull it down from somewhere?  I have looked for it but can't find it
 :anywhere.  I   Full product distribution kits -- and that is what V5.0A is -- are not eC   currently made generally available on the Compaq OpenVMS website.a   J   You don't mention if this is OpenVMS VAX or OpenVMS Alpha -- the TCP/IP G   Services V5.0A kit is included with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1 distribution F   kit, and is also available on the current consolidated distribution E   CD-ROM kits.  There is recently-released ECO kit (ECO1) for TCP/IP n6   Services V5.0A that is available on the ECO website.    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Nov 2000 00:02:48 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0-9 services.( Message-ID: <3a0b2d18@news.kapsch.co.at>  k In article <8uf8h2$o48$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:oJ >  Full product distribution kits -- and that is what V5.0A is -- are not D >  currently made generally available on the Compaq OpenVMS website.   And there is the: Why not ?l   K >  You don't mention if this is OpenVMS VAX or OpenVMS Alpha -- the TCP/IP eH >  Services V5.0A kit is included with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1 distribution  > Sorry, not really. Only V5.0-10 (V5.0A with the bug) is there.D V5.0-11 (without this bug) is only available via the VMS Condist CDs8 (and maybe via the OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1H1 distribution).  G >  kit, and is also available on the current consolidated distribution aF >  CD-ROM kits.  There is recently-released ECO kit (ECO1) for TCP/IP 7 >  Services V5.0A that is available on the ECO website.f   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888m< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:31:00 GMT) From: Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com>t Subject: OpenVMS on 5300+ Message-ID: <3A06EAD4.B012F808@hotmail.com>s  D I searched the net for information on whether or not the alphaserverC 5300 will run OpenVMS or not.  I know that it is "optimized" to rundH Windows NT, but since it is an Alpha system,  I presume that it will run OpenVMS as well.   Anyone know for sure?e   -jack  (Ex-Dec Rep. 21 years)n   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 01:04:06 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: OpenVMS on 53006 Message-ID: <8u7ke6$756$5@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  W In article <3A06EAD4.B012F808@hotmail.com>, Jack Haskell <jhaskell@hotmail.com> writes: E :I searched the net for information on whether or not the alphaserver  :5300 will run OpenVMS or not.  G   There is no such thing as the AlphaServer 5300 series, I will assume a=   that this is a reference to the Digital Server 5300 series.e  E :I know that it is "optimized" to run Windows NT, but since it is an g; :Alpha system,  I presume that it will run OpenVMS as well.u  >   There is no support for OpenVMS on the Windows NT platforms.  E   Those Alpha systems that were configured and sold specifically for  F   use with Windows NT generally can NOT run OpenVMS without some sort E   of additional hackery, either to the platform or to OpenVMS.  Some a@   of these are systems are variants of Alpha platforms that are D   supported by OpenVMS, and some are something that OpenVMS can not    and will not bootstrap on.  E   I'd like to see one or more ways provided for those hobbyists that uG   would like to make use these unsupported "variant" systems, but that  A   decision has not yet been made.  For those customers that have nF   purchased these systems, there is/was a trade-in/conversion program F   in various areas.  As for those Alpha systems with no variants that D   have been supported by OpenVMS, well, don't bet on any ability to    boot OpenVMS on the platform.l  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:31:57 -0500% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>b Subject: Re: OpenVMS on 5300/ Message-ID: <t0lcaoi832cbc0@corp.supernews.com>t  J In response to Hoffman's statement about validity of VMS licenses on WhiteK Box Alpha's, I must state that my White Box Alpha, when powered up, says ite is an Alphaserver 800o  I Ergo - Am I wrong to assume that Alphaserver 800 licenses - the AS800 EIP?K kit that lists for $1252 part number QB-63PAE-AA, for example, would not beeI legal  on a System that DEC/Compaq themselves called an Alphaserver 800 ?o   Hmmmm   , Sounds like a legal issue, doesn't it ?!?!!?   My thoughtsn   David,   -- Island Computers US Corporationa 2700 Gregory Streetg	 Suite 150  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622g Fax: 912 201 0096  sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intendedo
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete this  message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.    = Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagem0 news:8ucbap$7hq$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... >n9 > In article <3A094585.3DECF648@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn ! <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:e > :M > :a > :Jack Haskell wrote: > :  > :> Hoff Hoffman wrote: > :>? > :> > In article <3A06EAD4.B012F808@hotmail.com>, Jack Haskelld <jhaskell@hotmail.com> writes:L > :> > :I searched the net for information on whether or not the alphaserver% > :> > :5300 will run OpenVMS or not.u > :> >F > :> >   There is no such thing as the AlphaServer 5300 series, I will assumeD > :> >   that this is a reference to the Digital Server 5300 series. > :>G > :> OK. I guess that the seller got it wrong. He listed it as an Alphat Server.  > :cJ > :My take on what Hoff is trying to say, an alpha server is a server with anG > :Alpha inside it. An AlphaServer is a particular range of alpha basedg serverstL > :qualified to run VMS and Tru64.  The Digital Server 5300 is a server with an& > :alpha chip designed to run NT only. >lI >   Correct.  There is no "5300" used on any "AlphaServer" series member.-H >   The only recent use of the "5300" I can recall was with the "DIGITALF >   Server 5300" series, a platform that is targeted for and supportedH >   only for Microsoft Windows NT.  The DIGITAL Server 5300 does contain >   an Alpha microprocessor. >nK >   I am aware of various hacks that can potentially allow at least some of2J >   the systems targeted for use with Windows NT to boot OpenVMS, and I amI >   also aware of some folks that have had problems.  Some of these Alpha J >   systems targeting Windows NT have platform variants that are supportedJ >   by OpenVMS, and some do not.  Other than the hobbyist-type licenses, IB >   am not aware of any OpenVMS licenses that would permit OpenVMS
 operationsH >   on these.  (eg: I am not aware of any licenses that would permit the1 >   commercial use of these "converted" systems.)  >sI >   All this reminds me of some text I need to write up, but I digress...  > , >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------n1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringa hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 15:35:22 GMTm2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: OpenVMS on 53006 Message-ID: <8ueg7q$i1d$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  W In article <t0lcaoi832cbc0@corp.supernews.com>, "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com> writes::K :In response to Hoffman's statement about validity of VMS licenses on White L :Box Alpha's, I must state that my White Box Alpha, when powered up, says it :is an Alphaserver 800  F   What does the original paperwork order say, and what was the system    purchased as?     G   If this system is a "whitebox", then it was purchased as a Microsoft x   Windows NT (only) system.  .  J   If the system is a Windows NT (only) "whitebox" system, then OpenVMS is G   not supported on it, and licenses and formal OpenVMS support are not     available for it..  F :...Am I wrong to assume that Alphaserver 800 licenses - the AS800 EIPL :kit that lists for $1252 part number QB-63PAE-AA, for example, would not beJ :legal  on a System that DEC/Compaq themselves called an Alphaserver 800 ?  K   If I have correctly interpreted that rather tortured sentence structure, b*   you would be correct in your assumption.     In other words...   I   I would not assume that there is any OpenVMS license available for thiseM   system (other than the hobbyist license, of course) that is (commercially) PF   appropriate for this system, as I would not assume that this box is %   actually an AlphaServer 800 series.l  J   We have been through this discussion before in the newsgroup, of course.G   qv: the -a vs -au series discussions, the VAX 8500 vs VAX 8530 vs VAXc$   8550 vs VAX 8700 discussions, etc.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:03:05 -0500% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>o Subject: Re: OpenVMS on 5300/ Message-ID: <t0loml90oc1u6f@corp.supernews.com>d  E Tortured sentence structure - but - correct nonetheless (or is that a1 "tortured" adverb ?) :0)   DT   -- Island Computers US Corporationa 2700 Gregory Street 	 Suite 150c Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622e Fax: 912 201 0096o sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential anddJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete thisR message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying* of this message is prohibited.    = Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messaget0 news:8ueg7q$i1d$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... >o< > In article <t0lcaoi832cbc0@corp.supernews.com>, "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com> writes:G > :In response to Hoffman's statement about validity of VMS licenses ons WhiteIK > :Box Alpha's, I must state that my White Box Alpha, when powered up, sayse it > :is an Alphaserver 800 >oG >   What does the original paperwork order say, and what was the systeme >   purchased as?r >pH >   If this system is a "whitebox", then it was purchased as a Microsoft >   Windows NT (only) system.  >oK >   If the system is a Windows NT (only) "whitebox" system, then OpenVMS isoH >   not supported on it, and licenses and formal OpenVMS support are not >   available for it.i >cH > :...Am I wrong to assume that Alphaserver 800 licenses - the AS800 EIPK > :kit that lists for $1252 part number QB-63PAE-AA, for example, would notk beL > :legal  on a System that DEC/Compaq themselves called an Alphaserver 800 ? > L >   If I have correctly interpreted that rather tortured sentence structure,, >   you would be correct in your assumption. >  >   In other words...o > K >   I would not assume that there is any OpenVMS license available for thist? >   system (other than the hobbyist license, of course) that iss (commercially)G >   appropriate for this system, as I would not assume that this box ise' >   actually an AlphaServer 800 series.t > L >   We have been through this discussion before in the newsgroup, of course.I >   qv: the -a vs -au series discussions, the VAX 8500 vs VAX 8530 vs VAXv& >   8550 vs VAX 8700 discussions, etc. >o, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringt hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 09:04:02 -0800m0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>) Subject: Re: Oracle 7 and 8i on same box?u# Message-ID: <3A06E483.2AA1@ups.edu>?  H Yes, we are running 7.3.4 and 8.0.5 concurrently on an AlphaServer DS20,G VMS 7.2-1. No problems. However, I understand that 8i is actually 8.1.6t which we are NOT using.    Bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:13:06 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>-& Subject: Oracle Parallel Server on VMS/ Message-ID: <t0e7p1g73em0f2@corp.supernews.com>e  C We are planning to put Oracle Parallel Server on our Alpha Cluster.-  @ We are currently at Oracle 8.0.0.3.0.0 and have VMS 7.1-2 on the cluster.  C I have tried looking at the Oracle web site (you can not search formD OPENVMS AND PARALLEL, that only gives you ever page where OPENVMS or? PARALLEL appears) and have tried contacting Oracle with an real B telephone (Oracle highly discourages people from trying to contact< them by phone), with no luck. I am still trying to find out;  B     1. What version of Oracle do we need to upgrade to to get OPS?  5     2. What version of VMS do we need to install OPS?   4 If anyone knows the answers then please let me know.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:52:04 -0600V7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>$$ Subject: Re: Oracle RDB Sql Services- Message-ID: <3A023664.E7A7A001@earthlink.net>>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > ? > Why the users connected to the Oracle RDB SQL Services (ODBC)/ > are not  NETWORK users ???   What is the apparent mode?   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 00:28:03 GMT  From: cjdouglass@my-deja.com# Subject: Re: OS Update RamificationI) Message-ID: <8tt0qc$4ae$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d  + In article <r$vzV8PRQskx@eisner.decus.org>,f5   malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg) wrote:n+ > In article <8tpk0u$790$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,   > cjdouglass@my-deja.com writes:7 > > I'm upgrading from VAX VMS 5.4-1 to eventually 7.1,i? > As long as you are doing such a major upgrade, why not go allh > the way to 7.2?r  G It is my hope to upgrade to 7.2, but at the time of that posting, I had H only 7.1 on cd. I have successfully upgraded to 6.2 (overnight) using myC TK70 (S-L-O-W).  At present, the tape drive is my only media devicecF available for installation. The (2) MVII 3900s in question do not boot from scsi KZQSA-SA.M  A > You should of course have a good backup before you do anything.a > D Well I been lucky. My system is equipped with 3 RF71 (400mb) drives,D the system disk being close to 85% of capacity. I was able to locateA 3 RF72 (1gig)  at $30 each online (erroniously priced, wish I hadaG bought all 20 on hand). I placed one in the system, mounted it foreign,eD and backed the system disk  /image to it. Thus retaining my originalH system disk. Hows that for a GOOD backup. I then placed the backup driveC in the primary position, safely storing the orignal away.  The only2C problem  now is the drive names differs (r7dceb$ddcu before $1$dia0.@ after), the system attempts to mount the older drives previously@ defined. I don't want to rename the drives, just alter the mountE assignments. Thus allowing me to mix and match the drives and OS revse if need be.n >hE > (If you do the rebuild instead of an upgrade, you will know exactlyo? >  is on your system, and I recommend in either case to have an  >  as-built document)b  C Is the 6.2 B saveset tape bootable? this would allow me to create agH fresh installation, free from any unwanted or unrecognized files. I findE the CMD scsi controllers a bit too pricie, but it does boot CDROM. At.G present I cannot transfer needed files (like UCX )or patches to the VAX C without the use of the TK70. I've been looking high and low for thet DECnet client for Linux. >dC > Have you checked the cost of a new ALPHA VMS system with a (IIRC)hC > three year warranty against the hardware maintenance cost of yournG > current VAX for the next three years?  It could be a lower cost router? > for higher performance, especially if you can get a trade in.-  G No, I must admit I've been somewhat confused by the models that can runEG VMS and TRU64 Unix and the ones that won't (PCI bus). I guess I've been3F limiting my investment because of space and until I get up to speed. ID did however purchase a complete Alpha 3000 300XL with 64mb just last@ week with hopes on joining the cluster, and sharing the devices.( Hoppyiest License issues soon to follow. >   Thank you for your valued input.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 22:02:25 -0600) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>u# Subject: Re: OS Update Ramification1/ Message-ID: <t04e3khn52a722@corp.supernews.com>t  ) <cjdouglass@my-deja.com> wrote in messagei# news:8tt0qc$4ae$1@nnrp1.deja.com...p- > In article <r$vzV8PRQskx@eisner.decus.org>,s0 >   wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) wrote:- > > In article <8tpk0u$790$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,e" > > cjdouglass@my-deja.com writes:  ) > Hobbyist License issues soon to follow.i  : Sheds a different light on the economics of the situation.  C > It is my hope to upgrade to 7.2, but at the time of that posting,8; > I had only 7.1 on cd. I have successfully upgraded to 6.2n< > (overnight) using my TK70 (S-L-O-W).  At present, the tape? > drive is my only media device available for installation. TheN< > (2) MVII 3900s in question do not boot from scsi KZQSA-SA.  J You can copy the save-sets from a suitable CDROM on a KZQSA to one of yourI hard drives if you have the space on it.  They need to be in the [000000]w
 directory.  K If you have the appropriate cables, the Hobbyist clustering licenses should C allow you to connect the two MicroVAX 3900s in a dual host cluster.o  G You will want to try to find some information on configuring q-bus, and-J KFQSA adapters, if your two systems are not already in this configuration.J It is not one of the simpler projects for a beginner, even if you have the documentation for the KFQSA.  D While the MicroVAX 3900 may not be able to boot from the CD-ROM, the8 installation procedure does know how to install from it.  6 > > You should of course have a good backup before you > > do anything. > >n6 > Well I been lucky. My system is equipped with 3 RF717 > (400mb) drives, the system disk being close to 85% of06 > capacity. I was able to locate 3 RF72 (1gig)  at $308 > each online (erroniously priced, wish I had bought all > 20 on hand).  F Unless the drives had a great warrantee, I would not consider them too9 erroniously priced.  Sounds like a reasonable buy though.s  I In addtion to being larger in capacity from the RF71's, the RF72's on thei= hardware you have described are approximately 3 times faster.r  5 > I placed one in the system, mounted it foreign, anda6 > backed the system disk  /image to it. Thus retaining/ > my original system disk. Hows that for a GOOD 7 > backup. I then placed the backup drive in the primaryr6 > position, safely storing the orignal away.  The only6 > problem  now is the drive names differs (r7dceb$ddcu > before $1$dia0 after),  L Welcome to the world of DSSI disk drives.  There is a intelligent controllerI on the drive, and there are parameters in it that need to be set to matchl your system.  I In this case, you have the SYSGEN parameter ALLOCLASS to be set to 1, andyD that means that all DSSI disk drives also need the ALLCLASS (correct spelling) set to one.o  = I am doing this from memory, so I may have some inaccuracies:p  ; If you type help at the >>> prompt, one of the entries will- be something like:  ! set host/dup/uqssp param <number>   9 Where the number corresponds to plug number of the drive.o   You will get a prompt like:c PARAMS>s   PARAMS>HELP    PARAMS>SHOW ALLCLASS PARAMS>SHOW FORCUNIl PARAMS>SHOW NODE PARAMS>SHOW UNITNUMh   PARAMS>SET ALLCLASS 1   J For now I would recommend leaving the rest at what is reported the default value.   PARAMS>WRITE (It could be save?)n   PARAMS>EXIT   6 > Is the 6.2 B saveset tape bootable? this would allow; > me to create a fresh installation, free from any unwantedt> > or unrecognized files. I find the CMD scsi controllers a bit9 > too pricie, but it does boot CDROM. At present I cannot 8 > transfer needed files (like UCX )or patches to the VAX9 > without the use of the TK70. I've been looking high and:& > low for the DECnet client for Linux.  J The only bootable tape for the VMS kit is a standalone backup.  This would allow a clean installation./  H Again, it is fastest to copy the savesets from the tape to a second diskA drive in the [000000] directory, and then follow the installations= instructions using the second disk drive instead of the tape.n  I Normally the LINUX decnet stuff is at http://linux.dreamtime.org/ however H that site is not responding to me at the moment.  A search of DECNET andL LINUX on the Northern Lights search engine produced several links including:  1 http://www.sucs.swan.ac.uk/~rohan/DECnet/ftp.htmla   > >.E > > Have you checked the cost of a new ALPHA VMS system with a (IIRC)iE > > three year warranty against the hardware maintenance cost of youraI > > current VAX for the next three years?  It could be a lower cost routeEA > > for higher performance, especially if you can get a trade in.i >:I > No, I must admit I've been somewhat confused by the models that can runv7 > VMS and TRU64 Unix and the ones that won't (PCI bus).>  H Obviously I confused what you had with a production installation.  For aJ list of the Alpha's that are supported to run OpenVMS, you can consult the OpenVMS S.P.D.  / http://www.digital.com/info/SP2501/SP2501HM.HTMh  I A few have been sucessful in getting models that are not supported to run 6 OpenVMS, but I would not recommend that for beginners.  5 > I guess I've been limiting my investment because ofi; > space and until I get up to speed. I did however purchasee1 > a complete Alpha 3000 300XL with 64mb just last 5 > week with hopes on joining the cluster, and sharingS > the devices.  + I do not recognize the name of that system.   K There are a lot of Digital and Compaq branded systems with similar soundingaL names that are radically different.  It helps to specify the exact name thatL is on the label, and possibly the model number.  Abbreviations can result in very inaccurate responses.  I 64mb is a bit small for OpenVMS on Alpha if you plan to run a workstationt3 display.  With the Alpha processor, more is better.s  I One of the things to look for in an Alpha that is intended for OpenVMS is ! how much it will cost for memory.s   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:12:55 GMTo From: gfruth@my-deja.com- Subject: Re: Parsing Query_String with Apachee) Message-ID: <8uepeu$6a1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ? Feel free to use this.  Input is a symbol QUERY_STRING.  Output ? are a set of symbols QS_*.  It decodes '%' encoded string.  Thet@ case of the variable names in query_string lost since the output? is a set of DCL symbols.  Also, the last instance of a repeated D variable in query_string is the winner - other values are discarded.> Final caveat, variable names in query_string must be valid dcl@ variable names; this caveat probably limits the use of this code@ to friendly environments - a hacker can eaily cause this code to fail with unknown consequences.e   $PARSE_QUERY_STRING:
 $       I = 0c! $       PARSE_QUERY_STRING_LOOP1:a7 $               QS_PAIR = F$ELEMENT(I,"&",QUERY_STRING)B" $               IF QS_PAIR.EQS."&" $               THEN- $                       DELETE/SYMBOL QS_PAIRh $                       RETURN $               ENDIFt. $               TMP = F$ELEMENT(1,"=",QS_PAIR) $               J = 0n" $               QS_PAIR_VALUE = "") $               PARSE_QUERY_STRING_LOOP2:s1 $                       TMP3 = F$EXTRACT(J,1,TMP)n1 $                       IF TMP3.EQS."" THEN $GOTOn PARSE_QUERY_STRING_END2a7 $                       IF TMP3.EQS."+" THEN TMP3 = " "e' $                       IF TMP3.EQS."%"0 $                       THEN* $                               TMP3 = " "C $                               TMP3[0,8] = %X'F$EXTRACT(J+1,2,TMP)p) $                               J = J + 2e $                       ENDIFn< $                       QS_PAIR_VALUE = QS_PAIR_VALUE + TMP3! $                       J = J + 1l5 $                       GOTO PARSE_QUERY_STRING_LOOP2e( $               PARSE_QUERY_STRING_END2:( $               PARSE_QUERYSTRING_LOOP3:+ $                       TMP = QS_PAIR_VALUEo7 $                       IF TMP.NES.QS_PAIR_VALUE THEN -e< $                               GOTO PARSE_QUERYSTRING_LOOP3= $               QS_'f$element(0,"=",QS_PAIR)' = QS_PAIR_VALUEu    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.d   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Nov 2000 16:37:31 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>  Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS7 Message-ID: <rjqpukaddbo.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>a  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:@  K > I know this is hard for people to accept - but we have no choice.  It hassN > already been done on Tru64 UNIX, and we have committed to Adobe to remove itN > from OpenVMS in all future releases.  Our hands are completely tied on this,N > we have no choice in the matter.  It is not simply a matter of support (thatG > reference was in regard to prior versions of VMS/Motif already in theaJ > field), we no longer have the right to continue shipping the proprietaryK > Adobe software  in new versions.  It is not a VMS conspiracy, as I said -f# > this also happened to Tru64 UNIX.y  7 SO after another vendor sharfts you and your user base, 8 you then 'help' people by useing the shafters Proprietry2 Dumbass Format? *THAT* is ( and was ) the problem.  8 Any bets on how long till round two of this one with PDF being killed...y   -- f< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:27:13 +0000s+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>t Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3A073E51.FBC22247@iee.org>8   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > = > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:e > 3 > > Postscript and PDF are not proprietary formats.a1 > > Only the Adobe implementation is proprietary.y > @ > Unlike say DECnet??? So what IEEE/ANSI/OSI spec defines PDF...  > The DECnet-IV specs have been available for many years. Anyone< can implement to those specs for no cost (AFAIK - IANAL) and: several independent companies have done so (Kinet or one).  > The same is true (again, AFAIK) for DECnet Phase V except that9 I don't think the specs are available for free download -a6 you have to purchase them. You can, in this case, get  equivalent specs from ISO.  8 The PDF specs are available for free download from Adobe8 (or were when last I looked) and I believe that the same was true of PostScript.a  5 LAT and TD/SMP (to name but two, one with possibly any. incorrectly positioned slash) are proprietary.       Antoniom   -- l   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:31:48 +0100r. From: Roger@natron.demon.co.uk (Roger Barnett) Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS, Message-ID: <50369043wnr@natron.demon.co.uk>  H In article: <rjq4s1ldxw3.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>  Paul Repacholi ( <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> writes: > = > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:t > 3 > > Postscript and PDF are not proprietary formats.-1 > > Only the Adobe implementation is proprietary.  > @ > Unlike say DECnet??? So what IEEE/ANSI/OSI spec defines PDF...    C PDF is a public standard; you should be able to find references on r the IEEE site.  @ Adobe of course are one of the major providers of PDF software, ? but by no means are their products "reference implementations",e, even if users sometimes treat them that way.    The same applies for PostScript.    B As an aside, I've been working at a company that has been involvedD with developing and selling PostScript and PDF tools for many years;3 until I took the ball in they thought VMS was dead.r   -- o
 Roger Barnettr   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:43:19 GMT3 From: Lewis McDonald <lewis.d.mcdonald2@boeing.com>t Subject: PERL on VMS* Message-ID: <3A0709D7.CB0B4A57@boeing.com>  D Is there a web site written after 1996 (or 1999) that is specific toH PERL on OpenVMS other than the Compaq site? How do I find out if PERL isH working on OpenVMS? I found the executable. Thanks for any help on this!   $ dir [...]*perl*/date5 Directory DRA3:[000000.FASTTRACK.BIN.ADMIN.ADMIN.BIN] , PERL.;1              11-MAR-1999 14:10:21.12   Total of 1 file.  ) Directory DRA3:[000000.FASTTRACK.INSTALL] , PERL.;1              11-MAR-1999 14:10:45.34, PERL.EXE;1           11-MAR-1999 14:10:45.48, PERLSHR.EXE;1        11-MAR-1999 14:10:45.59 Total of 3 files.q' Grand total of 2 directories, 4 files. 1   $ sho logi *perl*a (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)o (LNM$JOB_87813900) (LNM$GROUP_000530) (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) (DECEDI$LOGICAL_NAMES)7 %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name *PERL*     $ sho sym *perl*= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:50:26 -0600*7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>o+ Subject: Re: porting from open vms to winnte- Message-ID: <3A023602.391F5016@earthlink.net>.   Pallavi Dongre wrote:n > . > i need to port a tool from open vms to winnt > how do i do it ?  = Well, the easiest/fastest way is simply to put a match to it.8   --   David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.l   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2000 01:59 -0400 From: hein@eps.zko.dec.c*m+ Subject: Re: porting from open vms to winntr% Message-ID: <3NOV200001593248@miasys>(  s In article <20001102151900.25701.qmail@web5104.mail.yahoo.com>, Pallavi Dongre <pallavi_dongre@yahoo.com> writes...i- >i need to port a tool from open vms to winnth >how do i do it ?  >kindly help asap... >  >the tool includes files likeu >xaballdef.h >xabkeydef.h  O This include files suggest relying on RMS indexed file support on the VMS side.bJ You'd probably have to replace that with some (relational) database on NT,K or a 3rd party ISAM tool. If you plan to keep the data on VMS, then you maye% look at an ODBC - RMS tool (VMS FAQ).   G Anyway, those include file are (probably) needed for the infrastructure F around the calls SYS$OPEN, SYS$CREATE, SYS$DISPLAY and you'd also wantD to look at SYS$PUT, SYS$GET, SYS$UPDATE, SYS$DELETE. Once you figureH out what you will do with those routines in the source, you'll know what< to do with the RMS control structure includes that you list.  J Ofcourse it could also be a matter of 'just in case programming' and those( include file might not be needed at all.   hth, 	Hein.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 14:54:02 -0500m* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)+ Subject: Re: porting from open vms to winnts+ Message-ID: <KOUpH9xWhAGN@eisner.decus.org>t  q In article <20001102151900.25701.qmail@web5104.mail.yahoo.com>, Pallavi Dongre <pallavi_dongre@yahoo.com> writes:i. > i need to port a tool from open vms to winnt > how do i do it ? > kindly help asap...h >  > the tool includes files like > fab.hI > rab.hl > nam.hg	 > abdef.ho
 > libdef.h	 > ssdef.ho
 > rmsdef.h > 
 > xaballdef.hd
 > xabdatdef.hn
 > xabfhcdef.hs
 > xabkeydef.hC
 > xabsumdef.hr
 > xabprodef.hs  @ VMS has built in a record management service (RMS) to handle all@ types of file types; flat, sequential, indexed, etc.  Using file= descriptors (fab), record descriptors (rab), name descriptorsm> (nam) and various extended descriptors (xab) you can work with: all sorts of file types from any program.  The clusterwide@ locking mechanisms to insure data integrity are handled for you,> so you only need to specify the type of access and the rest is> done for you.  Most of the include files you mentioned, above, are specific to VMS systems.  ; Since NT doesn't have anything like this built in, you wille= probably have to downgrade functionality and rewrite anythingu@ that uses this stuff.  Depending on the type of file the program; in question is accessing, you might be able to get the sameu= functionality using some db stuff, but you won't get the same@8 reliability, scalability or usability you'd get from VMS clustering.s  > NT doesn't have clustering, at least not in the sense that VMS< does.  Their idea of "clustering" is more of a "kinda of hot> spare chunk of hardware about one foot away, but doing nothingA normally" method.  (At least the last time I checked, which was ai@ while ago)   This is different from the shared everything, up to? 96 nodes, dozens of kilometers apart, add and remove nodes withg' _no_ application downtime style of VMS.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:11:34 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMS L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0311001211340001@user-2ive6bu.dialup.mindspring.com>  V In article <slrn904eqm.4dh.njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>, ncherry@home.net wrote:  B > I have some Unix daemons that I want to port over to Open VMS (aH > MicroVAX BA123 w/KA-630 processor). Any pointers? The code is in C andD > I will need to access the serial ports (I don't have any yet but I: > have access to terminal servers that support LAT & IP).    Standard advice would include:  F 1.  Use a reasonably current version of VMS.  Prefereable 7.2, but 7.1 is nearly as good for vaxes.  M 2.  Don't use VAX C.  Use the much newer, currently supported DEC C (probablybO renamed Compaq C, but I'm not sure.)  I don't know the current version offhand..D Among other things, DEC C is very portable between vaxes and alphas.  P 3.  Depending on what you need to do, you may be able to use the C I/O functionsM for the serial ports.  Or you may need to use the underlying VMS I/O service,RN SYS$QIO.  SYS$QIO is documented in the system services reference manual.  ThisJ routine's parameters vary depending on the device.  For information about s serial ports, I believe you want to look in the I/O user's reference manual, in the section about terminal devices.    4.  Some things that are common in Unix are Very Bad Ideas in VMS, and vice-versa.  It may not be easy to recognize these cases at first, but 1 it's best not to try to bend VMS to be unix-like.s   -- i Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 00:06:50 GMTi5 From: njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (Neil Cherry)e) Subject: Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMSd> Message-ID: <slrn906kpv.ajs.njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>  ; On Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:11:34 -0500, Robert Deininger wrote: W >In article <slrn904eqm.4dh.njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>, ncherry@home.net wrote:o >aC >> I have some Unix daemons that I want to port over to Open VMS (aaI >> MicroVAX BA123 w/KA-630 processor). Any pointers? The code is in C andeE >> I will need to access the serial ports (I don't have any yet but I ; >> have access to terminal servers that support LAT & IP).   >s >Standard advice would include:s >pG >1.  Use a reasonably current version of VMS.  Prefereable 7.2, but 7.1e >is nearly as good for vaxes.e > N >2.  Don't use VAX C.  Use the much newer, currently supported DEC C (probablyP >renamed Compaq C, but I'm not sure.)  I don't know the current version offhand.E >Among other things, DEC C is very portable between vaxes and alphas.W >E  C >3.  Depending on what you need to do, you may be able to use the Co@ >I/O functions for the serial ports.  Or you may need to use theD > underlying VMS I/O service, SYS$QIO.  SYS$QIO is documented in theB >system services reference manual.  This routine's parameters vary@ >depending on the device.  For information about serial ports, ID >believe you want to look in the I/O user's reference manual, in the  >section about terminal devices.  C >4.  Some things that are common in Unix are Very Bad Ideas in VMS,d@ >and vice-versa.  It may not be easy to recognize these cases at= >first, but it's best not to try to bend VMS to be unix-like.   A I'll try but it's going to be hard as I've never programmed unders7 VMS. Of course that's why I got a MicroVAX II also. :-)N   Thanks   -- sH Linux Home Automation           Neil Cherry             ncherry@home.netC http://members.home.net/ncherry                         (Text only)sB http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52           (Graphics)0 http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/				(SourceForge)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:01:06 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)) Subject: Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMSeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0311002201070001@user-2ivebfh.dialup.mindspring.com>  V In article <slrn906kpv.ajs.njc@CC47532-A.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>, ncherry@home.net wrote:    E > >4.  Some things that are common in Unix are Very Bad Ideas in VMS,)B > >and vice-versa.  It may not be easy to recognize these cases at? > >first, but it's best not to try to bend VMS to be unix-like., > C > I'll try but it's going to be hard as I've never programmed under19 > VMS. Of course that's why I got a MicroVAX II also. :-)l  E Well, there's nothing wrong with posting questions here.  If you post ? questions related to a unixism, try to tell us a bit more than uJ "unix thing xxx is giving me trouble on VMS".  Try to describe in somewhatE more general terms what you are trying to do, and someone will likelyi  suggest a VMS-like way to do it.  L A microvax II is pretty old and slow.  Make sure you give it lots of memory,E and consider buying something newer.  A Vaxstation 4000-60 at ebay isaL usually quite reasonably priced.  A 4000-90 is much nicer, but somewhat more9 expensive.  Most any alpha will run circles around these.l  K I assume you've found the VMS FAQ, and have access to the VMS documentation F set.  If you don't have your own copy, Compaq keeps the docs online at1     http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html   F The manuals are generally very well done.  Don't be intimidated by the= large number of manuals; you don't have to read them all. :-)-   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comh   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:47:51 -0600) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> ) Subject: Re: Porting from Unix to OpenVMSG/ Message-ID: <t0f2fboeq97m08@corp.supernews.com>s   Neil Cherry wrote:  6 > I have some Unix daemons that I want to port over to1 > Open VMS (a MicroVAX BA123 w/KA-630 processor).a > Any pointers?r  H If you describe what the end result of your project is, you may even get some collaborators. :-)e  7 > The code is in C and I will need to access the serialh2 > ports (I don't have any yet but I have access to* > terminal servers that support LAT & IP).  ! The terminal servers can be good.o  4 When aquiring hardware use the following guidelines:  F Avoid using serial ports of the DZ11 type.  You want the type with theB DHV-11 or CXY08 and such.  In general the DZ11 type ports identifyI themselves as TTcu: and the DHV or CXY ports identify themselves as TXcu:  types.  E The DZ type ports do not have much in the way of buffering and do not) support DMA.    L For real serial ports, in the SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM or SYSTARTUP_V5.COM you mustK issue the following DCL commands on the ports to prevent what ever you have 7 connected to them from getting stuck in a login dialog.D  H You can issue them at any time, and a reboot is NOT required, unless youD change the SYSGEN parameter for the alternate typeahead buffer size.  K You should issue the commands before running your application, to prevent aFH login loop, but they are not persistent over a reboot, so must be in the startup script.N  K Logins from Serial ports are inhibited until the SYSTARTUP_*.COM completes.     F For my Amateur Radio Packet Modem on TXB0: I use something similar to:  H This assigns a logical name to the port, so if you change to a different+ port, you only have the one line to change.P  " $define/system/exec PACKET0: TXB0:  F This is the line that disables the port from accepting incoming logins	 requests.GK The /perm qualifier is required as you need the setting to be remembered ase a default device setting.d   $set term PACKET0:/notype/perm  I You can set other terminal characteristics at this point such as baudratep, and if you need to use the signalling lines.  5 You may also want to set these other characteristics:m  J /altypeahd ! Larger type ahead buffer, a SYSGEN parameter sets the size of this.@  G /nobroadcast ! No need for your remote device to see broadcast messages   8 /comsync ! If your hardware supports RTS/CTS handshaking  9 /noecho ! Suppress incoming characters from being echoed.e  L Then so that your application does not need elevated privileges, you can setL the ownership of the port.  In my case the captive account "packet_svr" owns	 the port.f  > $set prot=(o:rwlp,g:rwlp,w)/device/owner=[packet_svr] PACKET0:    D Now in your daemon code, you need to allocate the port, and turn the typeahead back on.  F This can be done from a program, but can also be done from a DCL shell* script that is wrapped around your daemon.   $allocate packet0:1 $set term packet0:/type  ! DO NOT USE /PERM here!t$ $my_app := $device:[dir]mydaemon.exe $my_app param1 param2 param3 $exit   L By not using a /perm, the typeahead setting is only in effect as long as theJ port is allocated.  If your daemon exits for any reason, the terminal portC will revert back to the settings that you specified in the previousi	 sections.,  I This same program code can be made to work with LAT ports by changing the  codeK where the port is set to /notype/perm to create a LAT port.  LAT ports willgG signal an SS$_HANGUP exception if the connection is lost.  They seem togF recover automatically.  This is why I would recommend LAT over TCP/IP.  K Reverse Telnet ports are more tricky, and the syntax depends on what TCP/IPs program that you have.  K For UCX 4.1, when a connection is lost for a reverse telnet connection, theIL application will only notice it if has a read timeout.  You must also deleteI the reverse telnet port and recreate it to get the connection back.  Thise5 recreation can be done easiest through shell scripts.     K The DEC C run time library for VMS does not contain an ioctl() function forhL manipulating serial port characteristics.  You also can not use the select()- call for waiting on one or more serial ports..  J It may be possible to use a #define to change the ioctl() function to be aC noopt and just use the DCL shell script to set the characteristics.   I I prefer to do the serial I/O programming on VMS by using the SYS$QIO anddI SYS$QIOW calls.  I will admit that this is very non-portable, but you caniI get quite a bit more efficient code.  If your daemons depend on using the L select() routine you might have to consider coding them to use SYS$QIO() and completion routines.   > --J > Linux Home Automation           Neil Cherry             ncherry@home.netE > http://members.home.net/ncherry                         (Text only)nD > http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52           (Graphics)/ > http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)d   -Johnn wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:39:52 -0600) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>eF Subject: Possible performance issues with Samba for VMS (all versions)/ Message-ID: <t0en81i99cmlf0@corp.supernews.com>   H The SAMBA code for UNIX is assuming that it is trying to emulate a cases> insensitive file system on top of a case sensitive filesystem.  H As such it has some extra processing that may not be needed for OpenVMS.  1 For VMS you set the options for your shares to beh   "case sensitive = yes"   instead of the default ofn   "case sensitive = no"e  & You may see a minor speed improvement.  I Unless you are using the special case encoding in SAMBA 2.0.3 only, Samba 5 for VMS will be case insensitive with either setting.o   -Johnt wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 16:43:16 GMTt$ From: "Halfton" <halfton@pickup.com>4 Subject: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto9 Message-ID: <D0XM5.1433$pe3.115569@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>   I Need to transfer/send "over TCP" both pcl and ps files to NT or LPR print ' server for digestion and final printingN  # Anyone have script or know how to ?:  J PS: please be specific, about all I know is " lx " is equivelent to Dir /w :-)    TIA  Joe1   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 15:17:50 -0600H7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>q8 Subject: Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto- Message-ID: <3A047CFE.D61385BD@earthlink.net>)   Halfton wrote: > K > Need to transfer/send "over TCP" both pcl and ps files to NT or LPR printR) > server for digestion and final printing  > % > Anyone have script or know how to ?n > L > PS: please be specific, about all I know is " lx " is equivelent to Dir /w > :-)0  F Well, you'll need to read up on your system's IP stack and get familarH with the available mechanisms supporting "LPD" printing. Typically, it'sG just a print queue that "hands the job off" to another server for final  processing.r  @ This sounds like what you want, based on such a terse statement.   -- s David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 01:46:08 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)j8 Subject: Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto0 Message-ID: <009F2A28.B88E1D74@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <D0XM5.1433$pe3.115569@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>, "Halfton" <halfton@pickup.com> writes:J >Need to transfer/send "over TCP" both pcl and ps files to NT or LPR print( >server for digestion and final printing >x$ >Anyone have script or know how to ? >fK >PS: please be specific, about all I know is " lx " is equivelent to Dir /wb >:-) >  >TIA >Joe  J ...and that simply demonstrates that you know even less than you thing youJ know.  Go back to comp.dcom.modem.cable where the PeeCee weenies actually  believe you know something.d   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COME            LO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 03:06:29 GMTl& From: Jerry Hudgins <jerry@e-farm.com>8 Subject: Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto* Message-ID: <3A04CEAF.8F37541B@e-farm.com>  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > H > ...and that simply demonstrates that you know even less than you thingF > you know.  Go back to comp.dcom.modem.cable where the PeeCee weenies& > actually believe you know something.  D What's with the attitude?  Why would one respond to an admitted VMS G neophyte this way?  It wouldn't seem to be very helpful to promoting orc supporting the platform.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 03:09:47 GMTp$ From: "Halfton" <halfton@pickup.com>8 Subject: Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto: Message-ID: <_b4N5.1243$194.317750@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>  " Profesional as ever I see, Brian !L     Thank you so very much for your Perls of Wisdom without an ounce of fact or helpeL     Some how I had a fealing you would Popup if I asked a ? in here, and you, have proved me correct and won me a $100 bet
     Thank YoumL     There once was a wise man that said there is only one dumb question, the one that does not get asked !u HTHi Joeo  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009F2A28.B88E1D74@SendSpamHere.ORG...E > In article <D0XM5.1433$pe3.115569@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>, "Halfton"r <halfton@pickup.com> writes:L > >Need to transfer/send "over TCP" both pcl and ps files to NT or LPR print* > >server for digestion and final printing > >h& > >Anyone have script or know how to ? > > J > >PS: please be specific, about all I know is " lx " is equivelent to Dir /w > >:-) > >  > >TIA > >Joe >,L > ...and that simply demonstrates that you know even less than you thing youK > know.  Go back to comp.dcom.modem.cable where the PeeCee weenies actuallys > believe you know something.f >l > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >iK > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named afteri them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 23:13:24 GMTe# From: DiscGolfer <fctoma@yahoo.com>e8 Subject: Re: Print from VMS to NT/lpr Print server Howto) Message-ID: <8ua2ae$aok$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  B check out www.brooksnet.com and look for RPM Remote Print manager.' Will transfer to NT and modify PCL.....x   Regards,   Ts  9 In article <D0XM5.1433$pe3.115569@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,s'   "Halfton" <halfton@pickup.com> wrote:nE > Need to transfer/send "over TCP" both pcl and ps files to NT or LPRs printx) > server for digestion and final printingM >a% > Anyone have script or know how to ?  > E > PS: please be specific, about all I know is " lx " is equivelent tos Dir /w > :-)a >y > TIAI > Joee >c >    -- **************************** PLAY DISC GOLF!a and...live in Idaho :) http://frankinidaho.tripod.com    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 02:33:17 GMTe2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>" Subject: Problem with a DCL script7 Message-ID: <N1oO5.7864$Qz2.307017@typhoon.aracnet.com>b  C I'm currently working on a DCL script that needs to print variablesaL surrounded by '.  I can get the script to surround them by ", but that won't work for what I'm doing.  ' With the " I can just do the following:e
 ""''VALUE1'""  and it prints out as:a "This was Value One" However, I need: 'This was Value One'  K What incantations are needed to make this work?  I've tried all the combo'srE I could think of, and looked in the manuals but didn't spot anything.e   			Zanet   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 22:12:08 -0600b7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> & Subject: Re: Problem with a DCL script- Message-ID: <3A0A2418.ECF75CFE@earthlink.net>n   "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > E > I'm currently working on a DCL script that needs to print variables.N > surrounded by '.  I can get the script to surround them by ", but that won't > work for what I'm doing. > ) > With the " I can just do the following:3 > ""''VALUE1'""4 > and it prints out as:w > "This was Value One" > However, I need: > 'This was Value One' > M > What incantations are needed to make this work?  I've tried all the combo'svG > I could think of, and looked in the manuals but didn't spot anything.T  
 How 'bout:  : DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "'This was Value One'" 'This was Value One'   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE SystemsA http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 06:36:07 GMTmO From: ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au (Ian Burgess, University of Queensland)o& Subject: Re: Problem with a DCL script. Message-ID: <8udgkn$re1$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>  l In article <N1oO5.7864$Qz2.307017@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:D >I'm currently working on a DCL script that needs to print variablesM >surrounded by '.  I can get the script to surround them by ", but that won'tm >work for what I'm doing.a >n( >With the " I can just do the following: >""''VALUE1'"" >and it prints out as: >"This was Value One"y >However, I need:u >'This was Value One'b >iL >What incantations are needed to make this work?  I've tried all the combo'sF >I could think of, and looked in the manuals but didn't spot anything. >  >			Zane   How about..   &  $ write sys$output "'" + VALUE1 + "'"       Cheers, 
        IanG -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- G Ian Burgess                                     I.Burgess@its.uq.edu.au-G Information Technology Services                 Phone:   61 7 336 54074m Prentice Buildingr The University of Queensland BRISBANE AUSTRALIA 4072n   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 07:57:04 GMTf3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)s& Subject: Re: Problem with a DCL script0 Message-ID: <8udlcg$pat$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  l In article <N1oO5.7864$Qz2.307017@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:D >I'm currently working on a DCL script that needs to print variablesM >surrounded by '.  I can get the script to surround them by ", but that won't. >work for what I'm doing.  >i( >With the " I can just do the following: >""''VALUE1'"" >and it prints out as: >"This was Value One"  >However, I need:m >'This was Value One'm > L >What incantations are needed to make this work?  I've tried all the combo'sF >I could think of, and looked in the manuals but didn't spot anything.   What is wrong with$    WRITE sys$output "'", value1, "'" ?t   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:55:12 GMTr= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e& Subject: Re: Problem with a DCL script0 Message-ID: <009F2D9A.16A30E35@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <N1oO5.7864$Qz2.307017@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:D >I'm currently working on a DCL script that needs to print variablesM >surrounded by '.  I can get the script to surround them by ", but that won'tr >work for what I'm doing.o >a( >With the " I can just do the following: >""''VALUE1'"" >and it prints out as: >"This was Value One"a >However, I need:  >'This was Value One'w > L >What incantations are needed to make this work?  I've tried all the combo'sF >I could think of, and looked in the manuals but didn't spot anything. >  >			Zane >n   $ APOS[0,8]=%x27, $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''APOS'''VALUE1'''APOS'" 'This was Value One' $p --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them..   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:45:01 GMT)2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>& Subject: Re: Problem with a DCL script7 Message-ID: <xVEO5.7903$Qz2.321091@typhoon.aracnet.com>e  P Ian Burgess, University of Queensland <ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au> wrote:
 > How about..   ( >  $ write sys$output "'" + VALUE1 + "'"  L Well....  It's a lot more cumbersome that I wanted, but to me at least, it'sK more readable than the other suggestions.  Most importantly it works!  ManyvK thanks, I knew there had to be a way(s) to do it, but couldn't for the lifet of me figure it out.   			Zaneo   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 15:31:09 -0500  From: briggs@eisner.decus.orgo& Subject: Re: Problem with a DCL script+ Message-ID: <FdsyTCE+iTAo@eisner.decus.org>s  p In article <009F2D9A.16A30E35@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: > $ APOS[0,8]=%x27. > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''APOS'''VALUE1'''APOS'" > 'This was Value One'   $ APOS[0,8]=%x27				- $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''APOS'''VALUE1'''APOS'"	  VALUE1APOS'i  3 First pass: "''APOS'''VALUE1'''APOS'"		''APOS' => 'a/ Second pass: "'''VALUE1'''APOS'"		''' => <null>t, Third pass: "VALUE1'''APOS'"			''' => <null>: Fourth pass: "VALUE1APOS'"			No embeded double apostrophes  G How did you come up with that other supposed output?  You do understandeG about macro substitution and re-scan in the context of DCL command linec parsing, right?t  & 	John Briggs			briggs@eisner.decus.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:42:25 GMTo= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) & Subject: Re: Problem with a DCL script0 Message-ID: <009F2E16.0841B275@SendSpamHere.ORG>  K In article <FdsyTCE+iTAo@eisner.decus.org>, briggs@eisner.decus.org writes:aq >In article <009F2D9A.16A30E35@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  >> $ APOS[0,8]=%x27 / >> $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''APOS'''VALUE1'''APOS'"  >> 'This was Value One'o >  >$ APOS[0,8]=%x27				t. >$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''APOS'''VALUE1'''APOS'"	 >VALUE1APOS' >m4 >First pass: "''APOS'''VALUE1'''APOS'"		''APOS' => '0 >Second pass: "'''VALUE1'''APOS'"		''' => <null>- >Third pass: "VALUE1'''APOS'"			''' => <null>e; >Fourth pass: "VALUE1APOS'"			No embeded double apostrophese >rH >How did you come up with that other supposed output?  You do understand  I Too little sleep, too much insulin, not enough coffee, the kids home fromtI school for teacher convention, the prospects of 4 more with bore Gore.  I H believe I checked this using the following and hastily changed it to useH the "'' '" when I posted.  Your substitution pass assessment is right on the $$$.  # $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT APOS+VALUE1+APOSa    H >about macro substitution and re-scan in the context of DCL command line >parsing, right?   Yeap.  c     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs            uO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:56:07 GMT $ From: mark@NOSPAMtechop.co.uk (Mark)1 Subject: Question about locking (sys$enq/sys$deq)u. Message-ID: <3a068aef.6084108@news.force9.net>   Hi All,h   Background:lA I am trying to adapt some existing code for VMS to make it thread A safe.  The code uses sys$enqw to implement some resource locking.t> At present it uses LCK$K_EXMODE the first time the resource is@ locked it then converts the lock to null mode with LCK$K_NLMODE.3 After that all requests use the LCK$M_CONVERT flag.o? A static variable is used to keep track of whether the functionf; has been called before.  The old method would not work in at multithreaded environment.  0 I have two possible ideas to solve this problem:> 1). Enqueue the lock request and then dequeue it each time the     resource is required.e> 2). Attempt to convert the lock each time.  If this fails with;     the appropriate error code then assume that this is the)?     first time the resource is required and enqueue a new lock.t  < If anyone has any comments on which solution I should go for< then please let me know.  I am particularly interested which& method would lead to the fastest code.   TIAt
 Mark Williams    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:04:13 -0600B/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>e5 Subject: Re: Question about locking (sys$enq/sys$deq)eO Message-ID: <90AA265B67395B9E.F159D5D0ECB38586.362F5997A73D0D74@lp.airnews.net>e   Mark wrote:. > 	 > Hi All,  > 
 > Background: C > I am trying to adapt some existing code for VMS to make it threadtC > safe.  The code uses sys$enqw to implement some resource locking.n@ > At present it uses LCK$K_EXMODE the first time the resource isB > locked it then converts the lock to null mode with LCK$K_NLMODE.5 > After that all requests use the LCK$M_CONVERT flag.-A > A static variable is used to keep track of whether the function = > has been called before.  The old method would not work in ae > multithreaded environment. > 2 > I have two possible ideas to solve this problem:@ > 1). Enqueue the lock request and then dequeue it each time the >     resource is required.p@ > 2). Attempt to convert the lock each time.  If this fails with= >     the appropriate error code then assume that this is the-A >     first time the resource is required and enqueue a new lock.  > > > If anyone has any comments on which solution I should go for> > then please let me know.  I am particularly interested which( > method would lead to the fastest code.  A A lot depends on exactly what you are trying to do with the lock.C  F What comes to mind is that you could consider the lock and its flag toE be a global resource and protect them with a mutex.  Then they may bel& usable in a multithreaded application.  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------r$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074a   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 11:29:16 -0500h9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n+ Subject: Re: Random User Security Questionsm+ Message-ID: <$J04f+H9roe0@eisner.decus.org>r  C In article <3a0172f9$1@news>, "Ram Rajadhyaksha" <dev@null> writes:oI > 1. Does the file system store the UIC names (as well as the numbers) innL > association with files? If I list a directory, it will show something like > this:o >  > myfile.dat [MYGROUP,MYUSER]v > N > even after I have deleted MYUSER from the SYSUAF.DAT file. This differs fromE > regular unix where it would display the UID if no matching name wasn2 > available. (ie, it was deleted from /etc/passwd)  I How Unix would behave is irrelevant, since VMS is not ascended from Unix.8  F > Rebooting the box would not make a difference...the phantom user/UIC% > association still exists somewhere.o  K You did not say how you are deleting MYUSER from the SYSUAF.DAT file.  Try:R  . 	$ MCR AUTHORIZE HELP remove/REMOVE_IDENTIFIER  ' The names are stored in RIGHTSLIST.DAT.f  . > 2. How do you assign names to group numbers?  $ 	$ MCR AUTHORIZE HELP ADD/IDENTIFIER  K > 3. I have multiple SYSUAF.DAT files, one in SYS$SYSTEM (which resolves totK > DKA300:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]) and one in DKA300:[SYS0.SYSEXE]. They aretM > both different sizes. Is there a reason for this or did the previous systemu* > administrator just forget to delete one?  H The only reason for doing that would be if you had a cluster system diskI and wanted one SYSUAF for the SYS0 node and a different one for all other G nodes.  Remember that SYSUAF gets modified on every Login and check theP; modification dates to see when the first one was last used.C   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 08:17:56 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: Rdb on VMS reference?+ Message-ID: <F5UdOp5AfTwi@eisner.decus.org>e  K In article <8tphih$503$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, richard_maher@my-deja.com writes:w  G > I've included a recent post from the Rdb list server in case anyone'st > interested:-  A Can you post directions on how to sign up for that mailing list ?-  > Sorry to bother others, but your mail address bounces replies.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 09:47:43 -0500w2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>" Subject: Re: Rdb on VMS reference?* Message-ID: <3A02D00F.B86A1ABC@oracle.com>  9 The Oracle Rdb list server is sponsored (hosted?) by JCC  5 consulting.  Instructions for taking part in the list 0 server are available on the web at JCC's site at/ http://www.jcc.com/jccs_oracle_list_servers.htma   	norm    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > M > In article <8tphih$503$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, richard_maher@my-deja.com writes:b > I > > I've included a recent post from the Rdb list server in case anyone'sD > > interested:- > C > Can you post directions on how to sign up for that mailing list ?n > @ > Sorry to bother others, but your mail address bounces replies.   -- l> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 06:54:26 -0500e2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>" Subject: Re: Rdb on VMS reference?* Message-ID: <3A054A72.A8326BDB@oracle.com>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > > Tim Llewellyn wrote:N > > > Hmmm, just why, if you had a pucker Rdb for VMS, would you want to run a > > > free,A > > > unsupported one on NT? > >b > > Training/playing-around. > >C > L > I guess  so as as long as the NT version is feature (and bug!) compatible.# > I don't know if this is the case.-  2 	rdb on nt is built using the exact same code base5 as the vms product (obviously, there are compile-time 4 conditionals and a different set of operating system interface macros and routines).u9 	at the time it was built, it was bug for bug compatible. = there are some features on vms that are not enabled in the ntn2 kit (row cache, VLM, etc) due to time constraints.4 	and, of course, using IP and the Rdb remote server,= you can access vms databases from nt or nt dataases from vms.s: just the other day, I was prototyping some TPC/C benchmark* for Rdb on NT using a VMS database server. >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk) > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofo > MedAS or the BBC.    -- -> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 08:34:08 -0500m, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)( Subject: Re: RECALL question/suggestion.+ Message-ID: <9zeFufUZnPYH@eisner.decus.org>r  K In article <8trmdj$t8p$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, richard_maher@my-deja.com writes:u  H > I hardly know PIPE at all and have been following recent examples withE > great interest, but in your example is it a case of the sub-processo0 > having it's own "empty" command recall buffer?   Appearently not:   $recall/allk
   1 sho us   2 sho memb   3 diro $pipe recall/all
   1 sho us   2 sho mem    3 diro  @ I've verified that recall/all writes to sys$output by redefiningJ sys$output, so it should get connected to sys$input via pipe.  Don't know  what's happening.j  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationn= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group.E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:37:38 +0100U  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>( Subject: Re: RECALL question/suggestion.+ Message-ID: <VA.0000014e.14082bab@sture.ch>i  @ In article <8u2cmd$970$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan E. Feldman wrote:, > From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmso* > Subject: Re: RECALL question/suggestion.% > Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 01:21:20 GMTa > + > In article <8ts0vf$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,t/ >   Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> wrote:a1 > > In article <u9fM5.1284$Nw6.3969@news.iol.ie>,w6 > >   "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.ie.nospam> wrote:A > > > OK, while we're making suggestions for RECALL, here's mine.l > > >oI > > > Following a RECALL DIR command, I should be able to enter SHIFT/up-a	 > > arrowdB > > > repeatedly and scroll through all the previous DIR commands. > > >- > >-H > > I suggest RECALL/OUTPUT/PREPEND_DOLLAR_SIGNS or RECALL/OUTPUT/DOLLARG > > which would prepend "$ " to each line in the output file. One couldoA > > even add /BLANKS=n to put n spaces between $ and the command.a > D > I'd also like to see a way to bring back a very long line that youF > typed, after which you went for the left or right arrow key, but youE > missed and pressed the down arrow key instead! Perhaps it should beeI > called RECALL 0. And perhaps the up arrow key ought to bring it back to  > life also. > = On that subject I'd like to be able to edit lines which wrap.a  . On DOS and Linux alike I can do the following:  J C:\alpha>dir "a very long line which wraps a very long line which wraps a  very l ong line which wraps"u  H And use the left arrow key to go back and edit any part of the line. On F VMS you have to delete the wrapped portion and then can only edit the J unwrapped bit; furthermore, you cannot insert a character that causes the J command to wrap. (OK in Motif you can set the terminal width to get it on A one line, but it's an awkward step, and you still can't on a VT).:  I > For this reason I find it useful to use control-D and control-F insteadE# > of the left and right arrow keys.- >- Yesssss! I often fall for that.7  E > BTW, DOSKEY is very cool. DOSKEY also provides move-by-word commandRE > line editing. DCL let's you delete leftwards by word, but a word isuB > sometimes a lot more than you bargained for if there are certain! > special characters in the line!e >  Agree on both points.t  G Here's my solution for the RECALL problem, for which credit must go to  = Hoff, as I derived it from something he posted here ages ago.w   With it I do the following:W  @    $ rec ed,login  ! note no spaces between the search arguments     2 ed login.com    10 ed login.com    58 ed login.com    s In my login.com:  3 $ rec :== "pipe recall/all > sys$login:recall.out ;tA @sys$login:searchbuf"  ! all one line, this will wrap when postedb   $! sys$login:searchbuf.com $! ----------------------- $!8 $ if f$search("sys$login:recall.out") .eqs. "" then exit, $ search/match=and sys$login:recall.out 'p1'% $ delete/nolog sys$login:recall.out;*a   ___k
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 15:21:30 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: Recursive Copying) Message-ID: <3A0AC0FA.59862295@bbc.co.uk>b   Ram Rajadhyaksha wrote:   5 > Is there a way to copy entire directory structures?b >m > Ie, something like:e >m > cp -R /src /dest >- > ...on other Unixes?  >aN > It seems you can recursively traverse the file system, but it copies all theK > files to one directory in the destination. Ie, COPY DKA300:[TEST...]*.*;*2 > DKA300:[SRC].S >H  8 $ backup dka300:[test...]*.*;* dka300:[src.test...]*.*;*   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 16:57:40 GMTV* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: Recursive Copying. Message-ID: <8uel24$322$3@info.service.rug.nl>  D In article <5.0.0.25.2.20001109101146.01cb30a0@clmail>, Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com> writes:   B > >How about adding the elipsis to the output specification, too ? > >a/ > >$ COPY DKA300:[TEST...]*.*;* DKA300:[SRC...]c > ! > Using BACKUP works best here...E > 9 > $ backup dka300:[test...]*.*;* dka300:[src...]/own=orige  A Both work.  There was a time when COPY wouldn't do more than one -G directory level (isn't "recursive" a misnomer here?), but that has not hE been the case for a long time.  Why is backup BEST?  Note that there s= might be some differences regarding file/directory dates etc.g   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 16:58:09 GMTr* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: Recursive Copying. Message-ID: <8uel31$322$4@info.service.rug.nl>  5 In article <3A0ABF54.3804D69C@fmr.com>, Brad Hamiltont  <Brad.Hamilton@fmr.com> writes:   E > You will probably want to investigate the use of BACKUP, instead ofr > COPY.t > ( > BACKUP allows you to do the following: > 6 > Backup/log disk1:[dir1...]*.*;* disk2:[dir1...]*.*;*  = So does COPY, and has for a LONG time (at least since 5.5-2).c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:51:29 -00005 From: "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk>r Subject: Re: Recursive Copying, Message-ID: <cmFO5.7707$Fi.34707@NewsReader>  # Because you could extend it to be:-   A   $ backup /VERIFY dka300:[test...]*.*;* dka300:[src...]/own=origE  E and I'd rather be sure that the copy has happened without errors if IO have the facility.   regards,   Adrian --  5 Phillip Helbig <helbig@astro.rug.nl> wrote in message>( news:8uel24$322$3@info.service.rug.nl...F > In article <5.0.0.25.2.20001109101146.01cb30a0@clmail>, Ken Robinson > <ksrobin@erenj.com> writes:a > D > > >How about adding the elipsis to the output specification, too ? > > >t1 > > >$ COPY DKA300:[TEST...]*.*;* DKA300:[SRC...]- > >-# > > Using BACKUP works best here...o > >0; > > $ backup dka300:[test...]*.*;* dka300:[src...]/own=origb >eB > Both work.  There was a time when COPY wouldn't do more than oneH > directory level (isn't "recursive" a misnomer here?), but that has notF > been the case for a long time.  Why is backup BEST?  Note that there? > might be some differences regarding file/directory dates etc.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 18:34:52 -0600A7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>]: Subject: Re: Reg. a problem in the cluster environment ...- Message-ID: <3A05FCAC.F416E07A@earthlink.net>'   mohamed irfan wrote: >  > Sir, > 5 > I am facing a problem in cluster environment of VAX'8 > machines. The cluster is formed using 2 VAX 6200's and4 > a 7000 series machines using HSJ40 controllers. My6 > problem is if i give "mon cluster" command from 62001 > series machines, Vax 7000 series machine is note7 > figuring in that. In " show cluster" command, all thee8 > three machines are figuring. It was going working well0 > in VMS 6.1 version. The problem statrted after > installing VMS7.1 [snip]  H Say no more! There's your problem. The disparity between VMS versions is- too great. Even V6.2 to V7.1 is a bit "iffy".b   -- o David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.q   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 11:48:15 -0500a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger); Subject: Re: Research Systems Inc. dropping support for VMSiL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0311001148160001@user-2ive6bu.dialup.mindspring.com>  f In article <3A016BF8.56B821D8@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>, Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> wrote:  > > Just received my IDL 5.4 cover letter that says that version. > 5.4 is the last version to support OpenVMS.    What is IDL?   -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comm   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2000 17:01:22 GMTu* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig); Subject: Re: Research Systems Inc. dropping support for VMSt. Message-ID: <8tur12$li7$4@info.service.rug.nl>  
 In articleA <rdeininger-0311001148160001@user-2ive6bu.dialup.mindspring.com>, 5 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: n   > What is IDL?  B Interactive data language.  It's a package for data manipulation, - plotting etc.  Quite popular in some circles.s  E Some folks like it because of the array notation---I have been using aC Fortran90 for a decade, so didn't need that.  Some people like the iA graphics, but an old Fortran77 program I have STILL makes better dI graphics for most stuff I need than any other package I've seen, and has rG a menu (not GUI) interface, which I missed in a demonstration of IDL I y	 saw once.t  E The same company sells this product about the murderer who after his s= execution let himself be sliced up and used for 3-D exploded s representation etc.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:19:59 GMTi+ From: Craig A. Berry <calepine@my-deja.com>s Subject: Re: RTF Reader/Viewer) Message-ID: <8uf0t8$d7k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e  . In article <8uethj$6ve$2@info.service.rug.nl>,   helbig@astro.rug.nl wrote: > ? > Some people see this as an "escape from Microsoft".  However,s
 even if itE > is other software, it is still THEIR proprietary file formats whiche are  > setting the standard.   @ Nope.  StarOffice has its own native (but open) format that uses? XML.  It's thus an open standard based on another open standard ; and the source code in which it's implemented is open.  The E input/output filters for MS Office formats are just that and no more.   @ > I would rather see VMS engineering put their efforts into VMS.  @ Personally I agree.  I have more office suites on more different? platforms than I know what to do with, and I don't need or wantt? word processing from VMS.  However, I sympathize with those whoeC would like to carve out desktop space for VMS in their institutionstF but can't do so without an office suite.  I also wouldn't be surprised? if some of the potential DOE customers will require office-type E capabilities (not in the spec itself, but as a procurement checkbox).       & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 15:23:25 GMTL2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: RTF Reader/Viewer6 Message-ID: <8uefhd$hru$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  U In article <3a0ab29a@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:aC :Did I miss the (freeware) solution for an RTF Reader/Viewer on VMSe* :or is there currently/still no solution ?  C   There is/was an RTF converter around as part of certain CDA kits,YD   but I am not aware of an RTF viewer -- well, other than (probably)F   as part of StarOffice, and I am not aware of any currently-availableD   OpenVMS port of StarOffice.  (I know of at least a couple of folksB   that are looking at this port, but that nasty scheduling problemE   known as "real work" does tend to slow these things down markedly.)s  A   If you FIND an RTF viewer, please let me know and I will add itS   to the next OpenVMS Freeware.A  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:41:17 GMT(+ From: Craig A. Berry <calepine@my-deja.com>S Subject: Re: RTF Reader/Viewer) Message-ID: <8uenjs$4hu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   6 In article <8uefhd$hru$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,&   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote: > ; > In article <3a0ab29a@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.nets (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:SA > :Did I miss the (freeware) solution for an RTF Reader/Viewer one VMSr, > :or is there currently/still no solution ? >c? >   There is/was an RTF converter around as part of certain CDAd kits,-; >   but I am not aware of an RTF viewer -- well, other than0
 (probably)4 >   as part of StarOffice, and I am not aware of any currently-available F >   OpenVMS port of StarOffice.  (I know of at least a couple of folksD >   that are looking at this port, but that nasty scheduling problem< >   known as "real work" does tend to slow these things down
 markedly.)  ? The StarOffice suite is 9 million lines of code.  As a point ofm7 comparison, I seem to remember at the time of the Alphad? introduction that all the VMS layered products combined were 10 ? million.  A working port of StarOffice will never happen from asB couple of folks taking a look -- it's just too big, even for those; geniuses in OVMS Engineering.  If Compaq wants to make thisiC happen, they will either need to commit *lots* of resources or takepA on the new and unfamiliar task of managing an open source effort. ? A more useful approach than trying to port the whole shebang atrB once might be to start by extracting useful algorithms such as the? ability to read and write MS Office formats (I assume RTF is intE there but haven't looked).  A standalone utility with such capability  would have independent value.w  A I'm essentially parroting the remarks of Andy Hertzfeld of Mac OSu? and Eazel fame, who commented on a potential port of StarOfficeo to Mac OS X here:n  9 <http://www.maccentral.com/news/0010/13.staroffice.shtml>a  B A VMS port might be easier than a Mac one for the GUI parts due toA existing X Windows versions of StarOffice, but anything involving G the file system or threading might be harder.  In any case, I'd like to D see it done eventually but hope it's not an all or nothing proposal.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 19:22:27 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: RTF Reader/Viewer. Message-ID: <8uethj$6ve$2@info.service.rug.nl>  8 In article <8uenjs$4hu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Craig A. Berry <calepine@my-deja.com> writes: e  A > The StarOffice suite is 9 million lines of code.  As a point of 9 > comparison, I seem to remember at the time of the Alpha,A > introduction that all the VMS layered products combined were 10a > million.    B Speaks volumes about who knows how to write non-bloated code.  :-)  ? Some other numbers (unchecked): TeX is 25,000 lines of Pascal; v" Mathematica is 500,000 lines of C.  7 > A working port of StarOffice will never happen from aCD > couple of folks taking a look -- it's just too big, even for those= > geniuses in OVMS Engineering.  If Compaq wants to make thistE > happen, they will either need to commit *lots* of resources or takeuC > on the new and unfamiliar task of managing an open source effort.   I Some people see this as an "escape from Microsoft".  However, even if it mH is other software, it is still THEIR proprietary file formats which are F setting the standard.  And if this happens, they will probably become I more of a moving target than they already are.  What's the point?  Folks sH should get tough and DEMAND publicly standardised SAFE file formats for E exchanging stuff between systems.  What you do on your own system is a your business, of course.n  H I would rather see VMS engineering put their efforts into VMS.  Despite H its quality, there are some things which need to be done.  There REALLY A IS a renaissance in VMS.  It is here to stay.  It should set the  H standard, not follow someone else's lead.  And do so in the proper way: G not by tying others to some moving-target binary-file format, which is g( capable of transmitting viruses to boot!  A > A more useful approach than trying to port the whole shebang at-D > once might be to start by extracting useful algorithms such as theA > ability to read and write MS Office formats (I assume RTF is inaG > there but haven't looked).  A standalone utility with such capability. > would have independent value.-  F Note that there is a unix (and ported-to-VMS) thing which will convertB .DOC files to ASCII.  There is an RTF-LaTeX converter (and/or viceD versa) and LaTeX is one of the most portable programmes in existenceC (written by Leslie Lamport, who as far as I know is still with the a+ research division at Digital---er, Compaq).   F I see the danger, if StarOffice is ported to all systems, that people I will say "we told you you were crazy before, but now we KNOW and are not dI willing to accept any further arguments as to why you don't like sending i4 and receiving files in `industry-standard' formats".   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:40:17 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d Subject: Re: RTF Reader/Viewer, Message-ID: <3A0B19B9.FF56BC4F@videotron.ca>  M With the CDA library installed, you can use the decwidnows CDA viewer to openU and display RTF documents.  D You can also CONVERT/DOC mydoc.rtf/format=RTF mydof.ddif/format=ddifW anmd then TYPE mydoc.ddif on a character cell terminal to see the text of the document.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:18:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h Subject: Re: RTF Reader/Viewer, Message-ID: <3A0B149C.E71ADDF4@videotron.ca>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > D > Did I miss the (freeware) solution for an RTF Reader/Viewer on VMS+ > or is there currently/still no solution ?o  U The CDA Converter library has RTF support for both reading and writing RTF documents.r   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Nov 2000 00:03:56 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: RTF Reader/Viewer* Message-ID: <3a0b2d5c$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  \ In article <3A0B149C.E71ADDF4@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:  >>  E >> Did I miss the (freeware) solution for an RTF Reader/Viewer on VMSo, >> or is there currently/still no solution ? >tG >The CDA Converter library has RTF support for both reading and writing- >RTF documents.n  5 Thanks, but this is not available on OpenVMS Alpha...!   -- n< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 10:11:16 -0500L* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)3 Subject: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detaileds+ Message-ID: <vXePVDXmGW4S@eisner.decus.org>$   	Check this out...  < 	Sun's UE10000 ecache problems at eBay are finally detailed.  4 http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB973636942369499535.html  H At online auctioneer eBay Inc., a major Sun customer, the memory problemM initially resulted in one to two big-system crashes every month, says MaynardmM Webb, president of eBay Technologies. The memory problem wasn't behind eBay's"L most serious outage, a 22-hour failure in 1999, but has caused other serviceL outages, Mr. Webb says, although he adds that with Sun's fixes in place eBay- can now go "months" without seeing a problem.0  < 	Gee Andrew, that's not bad.  Those bi-weekly ecache crashes' 	are down to once every several months..  8 	Oh.. checking off on "rumors" and "half truths", how am: 	I doing?  Also, on timeliness.... that was in yesterday's; 	Wall Street Journal am I doing good there by not recyclingx 	"old news"?   	Come spin with us Andrew!!!!s   				Robs   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:32:13 GMT.= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)k7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed 0 Message-ID: <009F2DC9.2B059DFB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <vXePVDXmGW4S@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:
 >{...snip...}a >	Come spin with us Andrew!!!! >f >				Rob >v  J Rob, really!  Andrew's contribution here is to tout Sun and FUD Compaq andI VMS technologies.  You continue to invite him.  I know that you and KerryiI and several others are trying to dispell his FUD and show what a FUDster oH he is himself but the truth is that I believe we all know what a FUDster' he is.  Can we try to stop baiting him?s   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMP            TO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:27:15 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>e7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailedt) Message-ID: <3A0ADE72.DB8EB8A4@bbc.co.uk>   & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  Z > In article <vXePVDXmGW4S@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > >{...snip...}0& > >       Come spin with us Andrew!!!! > >P% > >                               RobC > >g >eL > Rob, really!  Andrew's contribution here is to tout Sun and FUD Compaq andK > VMS technologies.  You continue to invite him.  I know that you and KerryaJ > and several others are trying to dispell his FUD and show what a FUDsterJ > he is himself but the truth is that I believe we all know what a FUDster) > he is.  Can we try to stop baiting him?  >   D yeah, lets suffocate him with a vacuum of responses. Then I wouldn'tC be tempted to keep reading the incredibly convoluted and ultimatelysI pointless threads. Or maybe move into comp.unix.solaris or whatever it is5 called.3    --w6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uki  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofh MedAS or the BBC.g   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 13:07:23 -0500n* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailedr+ Message-ID: <VhMMYZ27C+Eg@eisner.decus.org>   p In article <009F2DC9.2B059DFB@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: > L > Rob, really!  Andrew's contribution here is to tout Sun and FUD Compaq andK > VMS technologies.  You continue to invite him.  I know that you and KerryoK > and several others are trying to dispell his FUD and show what a FUDster  J > he is himself but the truth is that I believe we all know what a FUDster) > he is.  Can we try to stop baiting him?c >   @ 	Some folks come to depend on forums such as these for technical: 	information and content that isn't found anywhere else or@ 	insight into problems, solutions , etc.  The Sun ecache problem< 	has been discussed at length "online" and has helped others 	understand what is going on.i  E 	This is a long standing issue returning to the November 1999 GartnersB 	report which brought this to general knowledge.  But it even goesB 	further back than that.  Rick Epps at Northern Arizona University< 	reported crashing problems in early 1999 and in a follow-up> 	that was posted by him in September 1999 he explained that heB 	couldn't comment any further as he and his institution were under 	an NDA.  . 	Back to the Forbes article.  Looking at this:    7  http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_3.htmli   M "Last November Verisign Global Registry Services, a domain name registry, was O down for two hours after a crucial Sun box crashed. Verisign complained but gotaL no explanation. Months later an executive at Verisign ran across the Gartner
 bulletin."   M "I said to Sun, 'My God, you knew about this problem, and you didn't tell me?eL That's unconscionable,' " he says.Verisign still uses Sun for some tasks but3 has moved important systems onto IBM Unix servers. ,  ? 	A reporter posted that Gartner report to the Solaris newsgroupaC 	in December 1999.  If it wasn't for that, the exec above might not % 	have known the cause of his outages.c  8 	What I will do and continue to do is to show folks that= 	"half truths", "rumors" and "old news" are nothing more thann= 	half-hearted attempts to dispel what was and is occuring andl; 	that is that Sun kit continues to have problems with theirL9 	ecache regardless of what folks might believe otherwise.   ; 	I have personally posted incorrect information or ideas ori; 	had thoughts that were obviously incorrect and have had to-> 	admit to my mistakes or views.  Why?  Because I believe it is> 	important to maintaining some semblance of credibility.  With< 	long (at times heated) exchanges here with Bill Todd he has? 	shown me he *really* knows what he is talking about and I havelC 	learned a lot.  Should some of that been taken offline?  Probably.iB 	BUT it wouldn't have benefitted others.  Do others always benefitE 	from these discussions?  Probably not.  But I feel this ecache issues> 	is VERY important to run to its conclusion in a public forum.   				Roba   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 19:49:17 GMTr= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)d7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed'0 Message-ID: <009F2DE4.B2C772F5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <VhMMYZ27C+Eg@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:q >In article <009F2DC9.2B059DFB@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:n >> sM >> Rob, really!  Andrew's contribution here is to tout Sun and FUD Compaq andmL >> VMS technologies.  You continue to invite him.  I know that you and KerryL >> and several others are trying to dispell his FUD and show what a FUDster K >> he is himself but the truth is that I believe we all know what a FUDsters* >> he is.  Can we try to stop baiting him? >> s >hA >	Some folks come to depend on forums such as these for technical ; >	information and content that isn't found anywhere else oraA >	insight into problems, solutions , etc.  The Sun ecache problemb= >	has been discussed at length "online" and has helped others' >	understand what is going on. >/F >	This is a long standing issue returning to the November 1999 GartnerC >	report which brought this to general knowledge.  But it even goesnC >	further back than that.  Rick Epps at Northern Arizona University = >	reported crashing problems in early 1999 and in a follow-upo? >	that was posted by him in September 1999 he explained that heiC >	couldn't comment any further as he and his institution were under'	 >	an NDA.h > / >	Back to the Forbes article.  Looking at this:f >m >f8 > http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_3.html >  iN >"Last November Verisign Global Registry Services, a domain name registry, wasP >down for two hours after a crucial Sun box crashed. Verisign complained but gotM >no explanation. Months later an executive at Verisign ran across the Gartnerf >bulletin.": >  RN >"I said to Sun, 'My God, you knew about this problem, and you didn't tell me?M >That's unconscionable,' " he says.Verisign still uses Sun for some tasks buts4 >has moved important systems onto IBM Unix servers.  >/@ >	A reporter posted that Gartner report to the Solaris newsgroupD >	in December 1999.  If it wasn't for that, the exec above might not& >	have known the cause of his outages. >o9 >	What I will do and continue to do is to show folks that > >	"half truths", "rumors" and "old news" are nothing more than> >	half-hearted attempts to dispel what was and is occuring and< >	that is that Sun kit continues to have problems with their: >	ecache regardless of what folks might believe otherwise. >u< >	I have personally posted incorrect information or ideas or< >	had thoughts that were obviously incorrect and have had to? >	admit to my mistakes or views.  Why?  Because I believe it ish? >	important to maintaining some semblance of credibility.  With = >	long (at times heated) exchanges here with Bill Todd he has1@ >	shown me he *really* knows what he is talking about and I haveD >	learned a lot.  Should some of that been taken offline?  Probably.C >	BUT it wouldn't have benefitted others.  Do others always benefitzF >	from these discussions?  Probably not.  But I feel this ecache issue? >	is VERY important to run to its conclusion in a public forum.f >w >				Rob >   E Rob, I know you and appreciate what you're trying to accomplish.  I'muE just simply tired of that FUDpacker billowing out his pack of FUD.  I E do appreciate that you at least put in the effort to disspell his notaE so accurate accounts -- as you've done in this posting and which I'veuE quoted -- but he is really becoming excessive.  I would ask only thattF you counter his posted prevarications and FUD when he posts it and tryE not to entice him to post more of his prevarications and FUD.  SeeinggE as how I spent 3.5 years of my life fending off prevarications from a E complete and habitual lying scumbag, I can appreciate that there is adF fighting instinct to vindcate the things you hold true, believe in andG know to be truthful but there comes a time when you have got to simply o. say "enough is enough" lest you become mad.      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             oO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.a   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 15:14:50 -0500e* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detaileda+ Message-ID: <pceTjcVUtyzG@eisner.decus.org>s  p In article <009F2DE4.B2C772F5@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:   > G > Rob, I know you and appreciate what you're trying to accomplish.  I'm G > just simply tired of that FUDpacker billowing out his pack of FUD.  IhG > do appreciate that you at least put in the effort to disspell his notgG > so accurate accounts -- as you've done in this posting and which I'vevG > quoted -- but he is really becoming excessive.  I would ask only thatiH > you counter his posted prevarications and FUD when he posts it and tryG > not to entice him to post more of his prevarications and FUD.  SeeingwG > as how I spent 3.5 years of my life fending off prevarications from a G > complete and habitual lying scumbag, I can appreciate that there is ajH > fighting instinct to vindcate the things you hold true, believe in andI > know to be truthful but there comes a time when you have got to simply d0 > say "enough is enough" lest you become mad.    >   : 	Point well taken.  Forgive my Andy-boy troll.  Looks likeC 	I am personalizing it doesn't it?  "Enough is enough?"  Maddening?eB 	Yes.  I grew up in a raging storm so know what a long term debate 	is all about.   				Rob-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:58:56 GMT % From: agreig@my-deja.com (Alan Greig)n, Subject: Re: shadow question SCSII <--> DSSI2 Message-ID: <3a02e041.2163663133@news.newsguy.com>  < On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 14:59:21 +0100, "Wim" <wim@rdc.nl> wrote:   >Hello > G >We have a microvax 4100 with to disk cabinets, ( 1 SCSII and 1 DSSI ).t; >Is it possible to enable volume shadowing on this machine?   C Yes but you will need to purchase volume shadowing license. You canfF buy this on a per volume basis now which might work out cheaper than aF license for the machine class. IIRC is is relatively inexpensive these days. YMMV of course.      --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 22:21:54 -0600h7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> , Subject: Re: shadow question SCSII <--> DSSI- Message-ID: <3A038EE2.578AFADF@earthlink.net>s  
 Wim wrote: >  > Hellol > H > We have a microvax 4100 with to disk cabinets, ( 1 SCSII and 1 DSSI ).< > Is it possible to enable volume shadowing on this machine? > [snip]  @ The key point to remember about shadowing is that it is (or was)F dependent upon matching disk geometry, or at least a similar number ofH blocks (MAXBLOCK). This was supposed to have been improved in the latestF version of VOLSHAD so that you could shadow a "small" disk to a larger, one. Not sure what the story is with that...   -- s David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 18:32:49 GMTw* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: SHOW PROCESS . Message-ID: <8u6tgh$dkj$1@info.service.rug.nl>  D Why does $  SHOW PROCESS <name> work only if the process is running I under the same User Identifier as the process which does $  SHOW PROCESS  F (note: not the same User:), but $  SHOW PROCESS/ID=<process-ID> works  from any process?-  I If I want to see a process with known name but unknown ID from a process MG with another user identifier, do I first have to get the ID (with SHOW sG USER/FULL, or is there a better way?) and then run $  SHOW PROCESS/ID? d   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 20:20:34 +0100u) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)f Subject: Re: SHOW PROCESSa! Message-ID: <Z2BK1HOSYa1f@ludens>n  [ In article <8u6tgh$dkj$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes: F > Why does $  SHOW PROCESS <name> work only if the process is running K > under the same User Identifier as the process which does $  SHOW PROCESS DH > (note: not the same User:), but $  SHOW PROCESS/ID=<process-ID> works  > from any process?T  ; because the process name is not uniquie in the system-wide.o  > iS there possible same process name for another uic's process.  K > If I want to see a process with known name but unknown ID from a process 2I > with another user identifier, do I first have to get the ID (with SHOW :  * - is there WORLD privilege? (i assume yes)     $ ctx = "">   $ _tmp = f$context("PROCESS",ctx,"PRCNAM","proc-name","EQL")   $ pid1= f$pid(ctx)   $ pid2= f$pid(ctx)C   $ if pid1 .eqs. "" then write sys$output "There is no given proc"R/   $ if pid1 .nes. "" .and. pid2 .nes. "" then -y6 	write sys$output "There are more than one given proc"   $s         Regards, Adam Maulist   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:26:03 GMTp* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> Subject: Re: SHOW PROCESS-) Message-ID: <8u744i$rtf$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  . In article <8u6tgh$dkj$1@info.service.rug.nl>,   helbig@astro.rug.nl wrote:E > Why does $  SHOW PROCESS <name> work only if the process is runningeB > under the same User Identifier as the process which does $  SHOW PROCESS G > (note: not the same User:), but $  SHOW PROCESS/ID=<process-ID> worksc > from any process?s >eB > If I want to see a process with known name but unknown ID from a process1C > with another user identifier, do I first have to get the ID (withs SHOW< > USER/FULL, or is there a better way?) and then run $  SHOW PROCESS/ID?u >u   From HELP SHOW PROCESS:      SHOW  	   PROCESSn       Parameters     [...]v         process-name  A          The name of the process about which information is to beeC          displayed. The process name can have up to 15 alphanumeric           characters.  G          The specified process must be in the same group as the currenty          process.s  - and from the DCL Dictionary under SET PROCESS'  G Process names are unique only within a particular UIC group. You cannot G specify the process name for a process outside of your group. To changedD the characteristics of a process outside of your group, you must use@ the qualifier /IDENTIFICATION=pid. The process name parameter is8 ignored. If you include neither the process name nor the: /IDENTIFICATION qualifier, the current process is assumed.   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    w:e  alan48  &-)        afeldman  &-) dellnet.com        gfigroup.come    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:43:27 -0000w- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)r; Subject: Re: Special Edition of OpenVMS Times now availableo/ Message-ID: <t0ma4f5s36gd03@news.supernews.com>h   Hi Sue,Y  K I just checked out the OpenVMS Times Oct 3 - nice issue.  I was especially tL interested in "Attunity Connect", so I started following web links from the  OpenVMS Times to learn more.  F In the end, I got thrown over to Attunity's web site (which is fairly F unattractive), shoved down a bunch of their  links, and ended up on a K registration page where I was obligated to surrended personal/professional  1 data about myself before downloading was allowed.-  K Finally, I got to the point where you download, and found that for OpenVMS bL in particular, the kit is not available for download.  Instead, I've got to B start all over again, except this time using a phone to develop a , relationship with one of their salepeople.    H This is a far cry from "Availble Now!"  "Download Here!"  Obviously, it I would be better to advise people of which kits are available mega-hastle- H free up front.  And it easily took 20 minutes to determine that I can't 3 easily get what was trumpeted in the OpenVMS Times.i  F It also appears that Attunity Connect doesn't yet have an adapter for K Oracle8i, only Oracle 7.x.  The OpenVMS times, I believe, states otherwise.t  J Doesn't anyone test these links before they're published?  Why isn't this , product directly available on a Compaq site?  J The above issues, imho, detract from the legitimacy and respectability of 0 The OpenVMS Times - please raise your standards.   ws   --  3 << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>d --    6 susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam (Sue Skonetski) wrote in, <8ue4q1$g78$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>:   G >Just wanted to let you know that there is a special edition of OpenVMS ? >Times covering the Oct 3rd announcment on the VMS home page ato >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/- >- >Warm Regards, >  >Sue   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:07:15 -0500) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>l; Subject: RE: Special Edition of OpenVMS Times now available : Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A6235@AND02>  2 Try the following URL.  It avoids the Attunity web5 site (although you still need to provide registrationu info at least it is to Compaq).e  L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/attunity/ConnectOnPlatfor mDownload.html   Eric Ebinger       > -----Original Message-----> > From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org [mailto:wspencer@ap.nospam.org]+ > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 5:43 PMi > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como= > Subject: Re: Special Edition of OpenVMS Times now availablen >  > 	 > Hi Sue,s > > > I just checked out the OpenVMS Times Oct 3 - nice issue.  I  > was especially o? > interested in "Attunity Connect", so I started following web s > links from the i > OpenVMS Times to learn more. > H > In the end, I got thrown over to Attunity's web site (which is fairly H > unattractive), shoved down a bunch of their  links, and ended up on a 7 > registration page where I was obligated to surrended g > personal/professional 3 > data about myself before downloading was allowed.r > < > Finally, I got to the point where you download, and found  > that for OpenVMS e9 > in particular, the kit is not available for download.  t > Instead, I've got to oD > start all over again, except this time using a phone to develop a . > relationship with one of their salepeople.   > < > This is a far cry from "Availble Now!"  "Download Here!"   > Obviously, it ? > would be better to advise people of which kits are available   > mega-hastle-= > free up front.  And it easily took 20 minutes to determine s > that I can't  5 > easily get what was trumpeted in the OpenVMS Times.i > H > It also appears that Attunity Connect doesn't yet have an adapter for < > Oracle8i, only Oracle 7.x.  The OpenVMS times, I believe,  > states otherwise.  > = > Doesn't anyone test these links before they're published?    > Why isn't this a. > product directly available on a Compaq site? > : > The above issues, imho, detract from the legitimacy and  > respectability of 2 > The OpenVMS Times - please raise your standards. >  > ws >  > -- l5 > << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>  > --   > 8 > susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam (Sue Skonetski) wrote in. > <8ue4q1$g78$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>:  > ? > >Just wanted to let you know that there is a special edition d > of OpenVMSA > >Times covering the Oct 3rd announcment on the VMS home page att! > >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/d > >t > >Warm Regards, > >e > >Sue >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:23:19 -0500t) From: "King, Teresa" <Teresa.King@ca.com>S; Subject: RE: Special Edition of OpenVMS Times now availableoG Message-ID: <CBB26D2118ACD31196440090277A40A703FA5BDE@usilms04.cai.com>c   Hi,?  \ I was also interested in this product.  It is available for download from Compaq's web site.  F http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/attunity/index.html  l You fill out some brief information and you will be emailed the location from which to download the product.   Te   -----Original Message-----< From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org [mailto:wspencer@ap.nospam.org]) Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 2:43 PM@ To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com); Subject: Re: Special Edition of OpenVMS Times now availabley     Hi Sue,H  K I just checked out the OpenVMS Times Oct 3 - nice issue.  I was especially 'L interested in "Attunity Connect", so I started following web links from the  OpenVMS Times to learn more.  F In the end, I got thrown over to Attunity's web site (which is fairly F unattractive), shoved down a bunch of their  links, and ended up on a K registration page where I was obligated to surrended personal/professional ?1 data about myself before downloading was allowed.u  K Finally, I got to the point where you download, and found that for OpenVMS  L in particular, the kit is not available for download.  Instead, I've got to B start all over again, except this time using a phone to develop a , relationship with one of their salepeople.    H This is a far cry from "Availble Now!"  "Download Here!"  Obviously, it I would be better to advise people of which kits are available mega-hastle-tH free up front.  And it easily took 20 minutes to determine that I can't 3 easily get what was trumpeted in the OpenVMS Times.   F It also appears that Attunity Connect doesn't yet have an adapter for K Oracle8i, only Oracle 7.x.  The OpenVMS times, I believe, states otherwise.b  J Doesn't anyone test these links before they're published?  Why isn't this , product directly available on a Compaq site?  J The above issues, imho, detract from the legitimacy and respectability of 0 The OpenVMS Times - please raise your standards.   ws   --  3 << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>n -- a  6 susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam (Sue Skonetski) wrote in, <8ue4q1$g78$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>:   G >Just wanted to let you know that there is a special edition of OpenVMSf? >Times covering the Oct 3rd announcment on the VMS home page atr >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/h >G >Warm Regards, >e >Sue   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 00:17:36 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: Re: SSH CRASH A 1000A Servero6 Message-ID: <8u7hn0$6po$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  b In article <00110607142494@axpswa.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de>, swars@axpswa.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de writes:8 :i have installed ssl + ssh on an alpha station 3000/300  7   I will assume this was the DEC 3000 model 300 series..  ? :whit the same software i get a CRASH an a dual processor 1000A   %   AlphaServer 1000A series assumed...e  0 :SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception& :on boot system are vms 7.2-1 ucx 5.0a  L   This would be a bug in privileged-mode code.  I would first set the systemL   dump file contents aside temporarily, and I would then apply the availableM   ECO kits for V7.2-1 and ECO1 for TCP/IP Services (formerly UCX) V5.0A, and nI   would then try this sequence again.  Assuming that the SSL code itself aJ   does not provide any inner-mode (privileged-mode) code and assuming the K   problem persists, I would contact the Compaq Customer Support Center, as  F   further details of the SSRVEXCEPT crash (SDA> CLUE CRASH, and quite B   possibly access to the saved crashdump itself) will be required.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:34:12 -0800* From: "Dan Cauley" <DCauley@majro.dhs.org>% Subject: Starting VMS install with cdo5 Message-ID: <jGqO5.124896$47.1863658@news.bc.tac.net>   H Hi there :-) I am very new to VAX/VMS.  I have recently got A VaxstationJ 3100 with what I believe to be 16 MB RAM, the unit came with A 104MB driveK in it which I am replacing with A 1 gig drive, what I would like to know iswF that if I install A CD-ROM that reads in 512 byte blocks, (There is noF operating system on the drive), What must I do in order to accsess theJ CD-ROM with OpenVMS on it - Do I have to type any commands? If so what areJ they? does the unit simply attempt to boot from the CD-ROM on its own? AndI also do I have to initialize the disk prior to installing OpenVMS? I know J how to start the format and select the disk but I do not know which format
 ID to use.  ! Any input is greatly appreciated.z  6                                             Thanks :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 23:11:36 GMTi* From: "Nikita V. Belenki" <kit@nospam.net>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher 9 Message-ID: <IwmM5.549$A26.21946@sjc-read.news.verio.net>k  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in message $ news:3A015B8C.7E954740@uk.sun.com...  K > > For power users like yourself he'd prewarn you of the downtime schedule > > > and ask you at some convenient time to log out of the node' > > you are using and into another one.hD > Of course this is how you should do it, but sadly Kerrys marketingA > homilly talked about the fact that people expect systems to runn@ > with very low amounts of "scheduled" downtime. You are talkingC > about using a process that Kerry somehow thinks OpenVMS magically 5 > does not need to invoke, namely scheduling outages.t  J In this case there is no *outages*. Unless you count the logout+subsequent? login time (at any moment convenient to the user) as an outage.v   > Of courserA > the let out for Kerry is that with 2 nodes or more in a clustero? > you only need to schedule downtime for the users or processesaC > attached to one of the nodes but given Curtis's example of having-A > to kick 1500 users off a node this won't cut much ice with manym > IT professionals.g  I And by the way, you haven't answered my question. Which users do you need6$ to "kick off" in the eBay's example?   Kit. kit # kits.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:37:38 +0100s  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laughero+ Message-ID: <VA.0000014d.140829ac@sture.ch>e  A In article <3A0276FE.25D95A6B@uk.sun.com>, Andrew harrison wrote:o2 > From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmss) > Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher ' > Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 08:27:42 +0000g >  > "Nikita V. Belenki" wrote:  
 [Big snip]    > M > > And by the way, you haven't answered my question. Which users do you need ( > > to "kick off" in the eBay's example? > > A > Your question didn't seem worth answering since it had nothing e > to do with the discusion.x > P Well I felt it was possibly one of the best questions raised in the discussion. L It's one thing to say to your users "Everyone must log out from node XYZ by L 18:00 2 weeks on Friday", but quite another to tell Ebay users that "we are  shutting down in 10 minutes".(  K Nope, if anything, Nikita's question brought the discussion firmly back on L7 track, as to what we are really trying to achieve here.    ___t
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:46:10 GMTy  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher/8 Message-ID: <babg0tkci99pg44rlv7g9be9kpanbvc190@4ax.com>  3 On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:18:20 +0000, andrew harrisonp! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:r     >> fN >> For power users like yourself he'd prewarn you of the downtime schedule andX >> ask you at some convenient time to log out of the node you are using and into another >> one.0 >:C >Of course this is how you should do it, but sadly Kerrys marketing A >homilly talked about the fact that people expect systems to run s@ >with very low amounts of "scheduled" downtime. You are talking B >about using a process that Kerry somehow thinks OpenVMS magically? >does not need to invoke, namely scheduling outages. Of course DA >the let out for Kerry is that with 2 nodes or more in a cluster w? >you only need to schedule downtime for the users or processes iB >attached to one of the nodes but given Curtis's example of havingA >to kick 1500 users off a node this won't cut much ice with many - >IT professionals. >a  D Andrew, you're distorting the message... on purpose I'd wager (since. you don't have nearly the same story to tell).  A The fact is that programming/development systems are a completelyhF different model, and they are *not* the business critical systems thatE require 24x7(x365) uptime.  No business I've ever visited thinks thisnE way.  In fact, some of them are abandoning their internal developmentm: groups... *that's* how much the businesses care about this environment.  E And show me the example where 1500 users are logged-on 24x7.  Kerry'seA example is valid because those 1500 users do log-off and go home.w  B Andrew, I can honestly tell you that I've administered VMSclustersB where *nobody* saw any application availability problems in over 2F years.  And these were systems where "telnet" was the main entry pointC (i.e., stateful connections, unlike remote database/transaction and1 http connections).  > I even upgraded from OpenVMS 5.3 to OpenVMS 5.5-2 without userE interruption on those clusters.  I've applied patches (few that therewD were, in comparison to other systems I've seen), added memory, cpus,@ disk drives, etc.  All without users being inconvenienced by the* outages.  THAT is what VMSclusters can do.  B Will it do this well for *every* environment?  Of course not.  AndC nobody in here is advocating that it will - nobody, that is, exceptcB for you, who keeps pushing that idea out here and then throwing upC individual cases where it hasn't worked to prove it wrong.  This isdF typical "Andrew-style FUD," and I've seen you use it for years.  It is8 getting very old by now,  can't you be more imaginative?  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqw- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:42:37 +0100, From: "Anders" <ccc28376a@post.cybercity.dk>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugherm0 Message-ID: <5JyO5.161$1i2.3609@news.get2net.dk>  F Having followed this for some time now I have concluded the following.  : Thank C****t that Andrew Harrison works for someone else !    ; andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messagea$ news:3A0843BE.2A7F2020@uk.sun.com... > jlsue wrote: > >e7 > > On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:18:20 +0000, andrew harrisone% > > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:r > >  > > >>E > > >> For power users like yourself he'd prewarn you of the downtimer schedule andK > > >> ask you at some convenient time to log out of the node you are usings and into another > > >> one.t > > >hG > > >Of course this is how you should do it, but sadly Kerrys marketingID > > >homilly talked about the fact that people expect systems to runC > > >with very low amounts of "scheduled" downtime. You are talking F > > >about using a process that Kerry somehow thinks OpenVMS magicallyB > > >does not need to invoke, namely scheduling outages. Of courseD > > >the let out for Kerry is that with 2 nodes or more in a clusterB > > >you only need to schedule downtime for the users or processesF > > >attached to one of the nodes but given Curtis's example of havingD > > >to kick 1500 users off a node this won't cut much ice with many > > >IT professionals. > > >. > >aH > > Andrew, you're distorting the message... on purpose I'd wager (since2 > > you don't have nearly the same story to tell). > >eE > > The fact is that programming/development systems are a completelyrJ > > different model, and they are *not* the business critical systems thatI > > require 24x7(x365) uptime.  No business I've ever visited thinks thisoI > > way.  In fact, some of them are abandoning their internal developmenth> > > groups... *that's* how much the businesses care about this > > environment. > > D > The users caught up in Curtis's Cull may well have been developersG > but I wasn't talking about systems that are being used by programmersoF > or developers though I would not agree that developers should expectF > lower availability, lost development time is a cost just in the same7 > way that a call center going off-line is also a cost.u > I > > And show me the example where 1500 users are logged-on 24x7.  Kerry'smE > > example is valid because those 1500 users do log-off and go home.e > >  >rE > I have just been part of a project to roll out a Seibel applicationeI > worldwide, users in Tokyo, Sydney, Singapore, Frankfurt, London and NewtA > York. The total user population is around 3000, now you tell meuD > where the window is that I can use to log users out. You could logI > them out at the weekend but reporting and roll-up is run at the weekendrB > so you can kill the users off but you will also be unpopular for > other reasons. >rJ > This forces the customer to do some remedial work, particularly where it > is > urgent during the week.e >iI > Now in this case these are actual connected users but the same customereJ > also has systems with no connected users but lots of connected processesI > which also run 24 hours a day. Some of the processes are extremely longEF > running making the cost of killing the processes higher further into > the process run. > D > Same for their treasury applications same for the upcoming general$ > ledger implimentation etc etc etc. >wC > These are not eCommerce apps which are even worse because they doe? > have to be available 24x7 with connected users 24 hours a dayr > 7 days a week. >o >c >PF > > Andrew, I can honestly tell you that I've administered VMSclustersF > > where *nobody* saw any application availability problems in over 2J > > years.  And these were systems where "telnet" was the main entry pointG > > (i.e., stateful connections, unlike remote database/transaction andS > > http connections). > >tB > > I even upgraded from OpenVMS 5.3 to OpenVMS 5.5-2 without userI > > interruption on those clusters.  I've applied patches (few that theretH > > were, in comparison to other systems I've seen), added memory, cpus,D > > disk drives, etc.  All without users being inconvenienced by the. > > outages.  THAT is what VMSclusters can do. > >tF > > Will it do this well for *every* environment?  Of course not.  AndG > > nobody in here is advocating that it will - nobody, that is, exceptIF > > for you, who keeps pushing that idea out here and then throwing upG > > individual cases where it hasn't worked to prove it wrong.  This isvJ > > typical "Andrew-style FUD," and I've seen you use it for years.  It is< > > getting very old by now,  can't you be more imaginative? > > 5 > > Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqb1 > > (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)  >c > -- > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architectn   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:26:56 GMTi  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laughert8 Message-ID: <d3hl0t08cq2smi0dclpddjl0scdvjs7fhk@4ax.com>  3 On Tue, 07 Nov 2000 18:02:38 +0000, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:   
 >jlsue wrote:    > H >> And show me the example where 1500 users are logged-on 24x7.  Kerry'sD >> example is valid because those 1500 users do log-off and go home. >> t >cE >I have just been part of a project to roll out a Seibel application tI >worldwide, users in Tokyo, Sydney, Singapore, Frankfurt, London and New s@ >York. The total user population is around 3000, now you tell meD >where the window is that I can use to log users out. You could log H >them out at the weekend but reporting and roll-up is run at the weekendB >so you can kill the users off but you will also be unpopular for  >other reasons.   D Typical Andrew, you misrepresent what I said, AGAIN.  What I said isF that the individual users don't stay logged-on 24x7.  And, as has beenD explained to you many, many, many times, the users will "migrate" toD the other systems over time via disabling the logons; thus they will* "move" transparently to the other systems.  C You keep forgetting, too, Andrew, that I've done this.  Many times.f= Many time zones, world-wide.   It isn't theory, it's reality./   >cI >This forces the customer to do some remedial work, particularly where iti >is  >urgent during the week. > I >Now in this case these are actual connected users but the same customer cJ >also has systems with no connected users but lots of connected processes H >which also run 24 hours a day. Some of the processes are extremely longE >running making the cost of killing the processes higher further intoe >the process run.3  > Any processing that runs over, say 10 hours, that doesn't haveF built-in restart capabilities, deserves all the problems that E*bay isB seeing today. (I know, that's not a good example, I'm just jerkin' your chain.)   >cC >Same for their treasury applications same for the upcoming generalt# >ledger implimentation etc etc etc.s  # These jobs run for over 10 hours?  a   >mC >These are not eCommerce apps which are even worse because they do  > >have to be available 24x7 with connected users 24 hours a day >7 days a week.v  @ Sure, but they are single, persistent connections for those 24x7D windows.  Also, most "good" applications will detect connection lossD and re-connect and re-transmit (if necessary).  This is a real world, scenario, and networks go down all the time.    1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqt- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 14:34:23 GMTT4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Sun Bloodies Compaq's Nosey< Message-ID: <P1AM5.14736$Cn4.166292@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messagey$ news:3A02B22B.E8599058@uk.sun.com... > Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > >v> > > In article <szhM5.8433$Ho3.76126@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>,> > >     "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:   <snip> > > >eI > > > I think the Compaq sales rep in the account in question ought to bea invitedoI > > > to a "Come To Jesus" meeting to explain to senior Compaq managementt just how- > > > and why Compaq ceded an account to Sun.n > > >T > >cK > >     I don't see VMS listed as a supported platform for SAP, so sticking. withL > > VMS wouldn't appear to be an option. Perhaps instead of scapegoating theJ > > sales rep someone should ask those higher up in Compaq management what they'rec# > > doing to remedy that situation.s >-H > SAP R3/R4 isn't available for OpenVMS, but it is available on Tru64 soF > though the battle was already lost as far as OpenVMS is concerned it > wasn't for Compaq as a whole.n >    Andrew speaks the truth here.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:04:17 +0000 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platforme* Message-ID: <3A06E491.B822DB39@uk.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > =    > andrew harrison wrote:J > > My collegue was the "proud owner" of a Compaq Armada Laptop that fail= edC > > 4 times, he subsequently read a Gartner report published before-J > > he aquired the machine telling him that the Armadas were sub-standard= ,iC > > and had been for some time and Gartner were not advising anyoneoA > > to buy them at all until Compaq fixed the issues. Compaq werebF > > so good at fixing the machine that he junked it and got a Toshiba. > =t   > And your point is ?C > =r  D > Anyone with >2 years experience in the computer business know that? > laptops create excessive problems compared to other computers < > (and I have tried Compaq, Dell, IBM, Toshiba and Digital). > =f  ; I currently have a Fujitsu it works well and I have never =-  7 had a problem with it that cannot be laid at the door =-   of Microsoft. =u    / Previously I had 3 Toshibas again no problem. =n    + Another of my collegues has had a series of61 Thinkpads, no problem, he recently got a Compaq =t   that promptly fell apart.o  7 The point is not that laptops are more prone to failureh9 than other systems, which may or may not be true, but thew= fact that my collegue was sold a system which had a history =t  9 of unreliability which had caused one set of analyists tor$ say that it should be sold at all. =    7 This wasn't a problem that had appeared after he boughtI8 them machine it was a problem that was well known though not unfortunately by him.t      C > > What about the VAX9000, late, slow, unreliable. The first AlphaoD > > boxes which used to brown out. One of the UK's biggest InsuranceE > > Companies kicked AlphaServers out because one totally browned outtE > > in their machine room. Digital told them they shouldn't have been:C > > using a 3rd party Token Ring adaptor (which wasn't the cause of3A > > the problem). Even if this had been the cause of the problem,nB > > Digital had sold the machines to be connected to the Customers+ > > network which was of course Token Ring.. > =m  H > It looks to me like you have given up claiming that SUN's products are
 > good andB > instead have switched focus to trying to bad-mouth other vendors > products ! > =o  > No you missed the point entirely, I was simply suggesting to =  7 Kerry thet Compaqs past missdeeds disqualified him from 9 passing any sort of judgement on any other manufacturers.t  ) > BTW, is that not what is known as FUD ?o > =u  8 No what makes you think that (oh I forgot Fact=3DFUD). =    	 Regards =K   Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 13:08:33 -0500e* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformt+ Message-ID: <p67fyhEDF7rk@eisner.decus.org>   \ In article <3A06DFE3.3AAC22B@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:   > N >>         But back to your FUD you introduced here.  You raise the PittsburghJ >>         project and ignoring the facts it is under construction attempt >>         to equate the two.g >> n > ? > But as you know it isn't FUD is it Rob, the Pittsburg System eB > isn't in production is it. Had my statement included allegations= > like your did as to the reasons why it isn't in production 3= > then you could have accused me of FUDDING, but I didn't didp > I. >  > So nice try, no FUD. > * >> http://www.psc.edu/machines/tcs/status/ >> 6 >>         Questions to you: >> rJ >>                 1)  Do you think the Pittsburgh site will have problems3 >>                         with acceptance testing?a >>  > > Why not on the basis of your FUD I would be quite justified = > in saying, of course they will have difficulties. But this e3 > would be FUD wouldn't it, just like your posting.  >  > K >>                 2)  Do you think Sun has a snow ball's chance in hell ofr? >>                         winning the second go round at APAC?l< >>                         http://nf.apac.edu.au/facilities/ >> c7 > More FUD, I don't know and neither do you, again all u1 > you are trying to do is get something to stick.a >   ; 	I'm attempting to solicit your opinion.  Something you canw7 	hang out here so we can look at it 8 or 12 months downn6 	the road.  Do you "think" Sun has a chance of winning& 	the APAC bid *again*?   I say no way.   > @ >> > Rob you are really grasping at straws, "a little bird tells2 >> > me" come on even by your standards this poor. >> > >> hI >>         Your opinion.  It is either a good source or a bad source.  It9L >>         is either accurate or it isn't.  Tell us your view.  We have comeH >>         to know your opinion here.  Of course, as others point out weL >>         know to look real hard at EXACTLY opposite of what you are saying. >>         as being more in-line with reality. >> s? > I don't know if its accurate or not, but then neither do you o> > do you. It isn't up to me to prove or disprove the validity ! > of your source, its up to you. o > C > At the moment all you appear to be doing is relaying every little ? > snippet, half truth, rumour in the hope that some of the mud y
 > will stick.d >   9 	Ahh... nice try.  The Forbes article does more to dispelf7 	the Nameless Faceless masses that are struggling alongu6 	with the ecahce problem.  Several telecoms, Verisign.7 	You are quite good at trimming and ignoring the Forbesa< 	article.  You would have us believe there are "half truths"? 	and "rumors" in there wouldn't you.  How about digesting this:s  6 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_2.html  L "At BellSouth Technology Service Sun has already replaced modules on serversM that crashed, says Richard Liddell, a BellSouth vice president. But a dot-comsJ in San Francisco has been waiting weeks for a repair. It bought a Sun 6500O server to run the database that is core to its business. The server crashed andeL rebooted four times over a few months.	"It's ridiculous. I've got a $300,000J server that doesn't work.The thing should be bulletproof," says the firm's president."s  > 	You are adept at ferretting out half truths and rumors.  Show/ 	us the rumor and half truth in that paragraph.V   	Or better yet:n  4 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a.html  N "Adding to the mystery is Sun's own reticence.It has never issued a warning toF its customers or disclosed the flaw to new buyers. For months Sun toldM customers seeking a repair that they must sign a legal agreement promising tonN keep it secret. Many still don't dare speak out. Even now Sun hasn't published9 on its main Web site an official explanation of the bug."   > 	Tell us the half truth in that paragraph.  The Verisign folks8 	were very disappointed when they discovered the problem= 	on their own.  Strong language on their part believing it isi 	"unconscionable"g  6 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_3.html  M "Last November Verisign Global Registry Services, a domain name registry, wasnO down for two hours after a crucial Sun box crashed. Verisign complained but got L no explanation. Months later an executive at Verisign ran across the Gartner
 bulletin."   M "I said to Sun, 'My God, you knew about this problem, and you didn't tell me?eL That's unconscionable,' " he says.Verisign still uses Sun for some tasks but6 has moved important systems onto IBM Unix servers.      - 	Tell us the half truth in those paragraphs. g? 	Mysteriously enough, the above two paragraphs have disappeareds8 	from the online version.  But it doesn't matter.  They ? 	are scattered across news servers throughout the world.  Looksw6 	like you guys are working overtime to stomp this out.   	Good luck!A   > B > Its a tactic much more at home in the newsrooms of the National ' > Enquirer or the Sport here in the UK.o >   ? 	I laid it out for you , let me know where the half truths are.r   >> > <Snip>r >> >9 >> > The eCache FUD isn't getting you anywhere is it, youe; >> > keep FUDDING and FUDDING digging and digging but sadlyo8 >> > for you its the same story every time. Each of your5 >> > posts is simply a re-hash of a previous posting,y" >> > nothing new turns up does it. >>  B >>         You are having a problem with realities and facts here.. >>         You state: "same story every time."G >>         This is far from the case Andrew.  Take a look at the ForbesaH >>         story for example.  It is from their November 13, 2000 issue.J >>         Last I checked the calendar says November 6, 2000.  For someoneG >>         that is dredging up "old news" ;-) and using the "same storysG >>         every time" it is rather convenient that the Forbes story isuG >>         just now hitting the newsstands.  Andrew, might I suggest ifeJ >>         you are going to *attempt* to write/post counter-points to whatM >>         I say *please* *please* attempt to use some angle that is a littlee >>         more plausible. >>  ? > So tell me what the Forbes article said that is new news Rob,  >   < 	Verisign, Bell South.  One nameless customer that has spent= 	$3 million of their own money attempting to fix the problem.e= 	The article is very informative.  Show me what is "old news"uD 	in that article and I will show you stuff that isn't found anywhere 	else but in that article.  5 > Gama radiation (not new news) there was an article s2 > citing research CERN is doing on this which was  > posting to this newsgroup.4 > Static (not new news) it been covered extensively.6 > ECC (its in the design specs for the UltraII) so its1 > hardly news and the jury is out on this anyway. 3 > Component problems with Sun ecache, not new news.e >   8 	The jury may be out on ECC L2 cache?  What a laugher.  4 	Johnny Shoe admits it was a mistake leaving it out:  6 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_2.html  N "Engineers have long known that memory chips can be disrupted by radiation andD other environmental factors. That is why Hewlett-Packard and IBM useK error-correcting code, or ECC, which detects cache errors and restores bitsh that were changed by mistake.l  O Sun servers lack ECC protection. "Frankly, we just missed it. It's something wepL regret at this point," Shoemaker says. Its next high-end servers, based on aN new processor called the UltraSparc III, will have ECC protection; they are to debut in mid-2001."t  = 	So your view of the matter "ECC and L2" is inconsistent witht? 	Johnny Shoe's.  Are we surprised?  Not in the least bit.  YouroA 	view is often inconsistent with Sun's senior management.  Thanksu 	for pointing that out Andrew.    4 > Please Rob don't accuse me of being implausible on5 > this newsgroup, I know that the backing choir will p4 > support you, but your track record of plausability > is lets say poor at the best.s >   5 	Fine.  For once find something I said regarding the eE 	Sun ecache issue that is clearly counter to reality or what we read PE 	in other well respected journals (Forbes, ComputerWorld) and I will sE 	agree with you.  I have agreed with you on several occasions in the 2B 	past as have others in comp.os.vms.  You are often on the mark.   	But not in this case.    : > Spiralog, Galaxies, ISV enthusisam for OpenVMS, WildFire8 > whipping everyones ass, EV6/7 and I almost forgot the 8 > little Cut an Paste mistake in your FUD Sun over eBays	 > outage.s >   = 	Which outage?  They all begin to run together after a while.o   http://www.auctionguild.com/         ebaY Outages 10-12 Oct 00      ebaY Outages 13-15 Oct     ebaY Outages 17 -18 Oct 00     ebaY Outages 19 Oct 00     ebaY Outages 22 Oct 00     ebaY Outages 23-25 Oct 00e     ebaY Outages 26, 27 Oct 00     ebaY Outages 28 - 30 Oct     ebaY Outages 30Oct - 1Novc     ebaY Outages 2 Nov 00s     				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 21:56:38 -0500n/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)a1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformy* Message-ID: <8u7r16$pmr$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <3A068E81.AA9DC60B@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >"Main, Kerry" wrote:  >> d >s: >Kerry please don't as a Compaq employee lecture anyone on- >product quality and "ponying up to the bar".  >e  ? OK, let's let Sun Executive VP Shoemaker lecture Sun on product  quality.  In this article:  G http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/00/08/25/000825hnsunmemory.xmln   He says:  -   "This has been a watershed event for Sun," o.   Shoemaker said, adding that the company has ,   moved from the back of the class to class "   leader with respect to quality.   @ So, during the period where almost all of the incidents you citeB below occur, a Sun Exec VP admits that Sun was at the "back of the class" with respect to quality.k  I >My collegue was the "proud owner" of a Compaq Armada Laptop that failed uA >4 times, he subsequently read a Gartner report published before  H >he aquired the machine telling him that the Armadas were sub-standard, A >and had been for some time and Gartner were not advising anyone s? >to buy them at all until Compaq fixed the issues. Compaq were iC >so good at fixing the machine that he junked it and got a Toshiba.t >e  ? Hmm...  My Compaq Armada has worked flawlessly for over a year.l> I once used a Dell that had some problems though... Don't you @ just love anecdotes!?  They can prove almost any point you want!  = I'd be careful about using Gartner recommendations, Andrew.  e; Gartner is currently advising customers to be very cautioust8 with Sun Enterprise Server deployments due to unresolved quality problems.t  A >What about the VAX9000, late, slow, unreliable. The first Alpha uB >boxes which used to brown out. One of the UK's biggest Insurance B >Companies kicked AlphaServers out because one totally browned outC >in their machine room. Digital told them they shouldn't have been a@ >using a 3rd party Token Ring adaptor (which wasn't the cause of? >the problem). Even if this had been the cause of the problem, s@ >Digital had sold the machines to be connected to the Customers ( >network which was of course Token Ring. >eB >How about the MP MIPS Ultrix Box I think it was called something E >like the 3800, sold by Digital as a SMP 2 CPU machine, won business rB >from Sun and HP etc on that basis, delivered with 1 CPU and when = >the 2and CPU turned up belatedly the machine generally went  A >slower with 2 CPU's than with 1. An irate edu customer suggested B >that if turning off the 2and CPU made the machine go quicker thenB >perhaps turning off the 1st CPU would make the machine go as fast6 >as Digital claimed it would when they sold it to him. >s >l >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Hendersonh jordan@greenapple.comn   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 11:30:05 -0500,* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform-+ Message-ID: <l3Hi247nludR@eisner.decus.org>2  ] In article <3A0822EC.9B835FB2@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:N   > E > Compaq/Digital may have "ponied up to the bar" over the RA-XX disks < > they didn't over the VAX9000 the MIPS fiasco, the Armada = >      	Degrees of difference.  a  E 	The 9000 went down in flames and sold all of 120 boxes (IIRC).  The nG 	MIPS fiasco was not handled well and some folks don't buy Digital for w> 	any reason after that.  I'm sure a lesson was learned in both; 	situations.  Sun is in the midst of learning their lesson.o7 	Turning our attention to the UE10000 we see it is manyn8 	magnitudes LARGER so much so that the trifecta at Sun, ; 	Scotty Uptime , Johnny Shoe and Zurg are meeting regularlye7 	attempting to shuttle resources and work the phones toa> 	ensure it doesn't go much further.  Unfortunately, it is only: 	a matter of time (not if but when) the next major tank of; 	a UE10000 or 6500 makes the news.  Most likely to be heard-D 	after the Sun kit is moved to more reliable servers as Gartner has ? 	recommended not using them for situations requiring more than o 	98 percent uptime.f  = 	Next tank?  Bold prediction?  Nahhh.  They have thousands of-> 	Sun UE10000s in the field.  They are crashing left and right 4 	or the "red alert" team wouldn't be meeting at all.   				Rob:   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 16:06:48 -05002/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) 1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformp* Message-ID: <8u9qt8$le6$1@lisa.gemair.com>  E It is good to see Andrew exercising his vocabulary.  He just recentlyfJ learned what the term FUD means and he's using in practically every other 
 sentence now!n  F Of course, he still has this problem that FUD is typically directed atL customers in an effort to get them to change their minds about a perspectiveH purchase, while Rob is directing his jibes at Andrew to further diminish his credibility.  H Oh dear, I suppose we'll have to get out the History and Practice of FUDJ again to demonstrate what Andrew does here is FUD, what Rob and I practice# are just gibes at Andrew's expense.g  ) In article <3A06DFE3.3AAC22B@uk.sun.com>, 2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Rob Young wrote:l >> t` >> In article <3A069E60.46CBF7D7@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: >> > Rob Young wrote:a >> >>[snip] >> > >> > ...C >> > you. You are just FUDDING again. Come on Rob do better this is  >> > ...' >> > again that like your eBay FUDDING.l >> > > [snip] >sF >We can all FUD as much as we like on this basis. I could for example  >...B >clusters to work". But that would be ill informed FUD wouldn't it >  > N >>         But back to your FUD you introduced here.  You raise the Pittsburgh	 >> [snip]a >> e >f> >But as you know it isn't FUD is it Rob, the Pittsburg System  >...< >then you could have accused me of FUDDING, but I didn't did >  >[snip]w >n >So nice try, no FUD.h >  > [snip] >c2 >would be FUD wouldn't it, just like your posting. > 6 >More FUD, I don't know and neither do you, again all  >r > [snip] >> >9 >> > The eCache FUD isn't getting you anywhere is it, youe; >> > keep FUDDING and FUDDING digging and digging but sadlyt >e >[snip]3 > 7 >little Cut an Paste mistake in your FUD Sun over eBayso >outage. >i >[snip]  >d >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Hendersonu jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:32:48 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformo; Message-ID: <4EjO5.4704$ml4.407224@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   7 "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message # news:3A092464.36F907EE@gtech.com...o > andrew harrison wrote:@ > > I don't think that is the point, the real question is should? > > Kerry be taking some sort of holier than thou attitude withw? > > other vendors when Compaq and Digital before them have such-8 > > a poor track record or should he refrain from making > > pronouncements.o > > G > > Compaq/Digital may have "ponied up to the bar" over the RA-XX disksF< > > they didn't over the VAX9000 the MIPS fiasco, the Armada4 > > laptops the broken NT on Alpha promises etc etc. > B > MIPS and NT/Alpha are business marketing decisions not technical > problems.r  H Andrew makes a valid complaint re: MIPS if he's referring to the utterlyE squatulent DECsystem 5800 platform. The DECsystem 5800 was a VAX 6000tJ Calypso with MIPS chips grafted onto the VAX chips (needed the VAX CPUs toL handle I/O). The 100MB/sec bandwidth of the XMI backplane was saturated by aJ pair of MIPS CPUS... so if you wanted to slow the system down, you'd add a third and fourth processor.,  K Digital was royally screwed every step of the way by MIPSco. DEC planned totK do a MIPS multiprocessor box ("MAXserver," not the 5800) and was all set toiJ go with same whereupon the good folks at MIPS piped up with "uh, you can'tH do that, we neglected to tell you that CDC developed the multiprocessingL hooks for the chip in question and consequently has an 18-month exclusive on SMP implementations.)s  L Great bunch of folks to work with, yes they were! Getting into bed with them> was right up there on DEC's Top Ten Stupid Vendor Tricks list.  
 charlie matco>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:26:56 GMTF  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformh8 Message-ID: <f90m0to99ll21oi3f585a0m9l57tc30f74@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 12:04:48 +0000, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:a   >> yL >>         Yes do go on.  The Pittsburgh system is still under construction.L >>         The Aussie system was in place for a while and running acceptanceO >>         testing and probably couldn't stay up long enough to pass the tests.oO >>         Care to wager whether or not the Pittsburgh system passes acceptancet7 >>         testing?  Or better yet, how about this one:  >>   >wB >"Probably" you have no idea why it failed its acceptance tests do@ >you. You are just FUDDING again. Come on Rob do better this is D >bad even for you or are you having the old "cut and paste" problem # >again that like your eBay FUDDING.e    $ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA   Pot... Kettle... Black1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqt- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)i   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 02:20:07 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>4 Subject: Re: Sun's haunting ecache problems detailed' Message-ID: <G3FFtJ.4F3@spcuna.spc.edu>g  L [Sorry if this is a duplicate post - my newsreader burped and said it didn't2 post it the first time, but it could be mistaken.]  - Richard D. Piccard <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:tP > There is the problem:  SUN was simply too optimistic in their basic error rate
 > estimation./  J   That could be. Or they could have been bamboozled intentionally by theirI chip vendor, or the vendor could have delivered out-of-spec parts, eithereJ knowingly or unknowingly. Consider the case with the PalmPilot, where some. units suffer data loss due to defective chips:! http://www.palm.com/support/dram/i  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA0   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Nov 2000 16:05:35 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>o Subject: Re: SYS$ASCUTC.7 Message-ID: <rjqy9yydesw.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>   ' A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes:/    F > Internet time servers based at Greenwich. They claimed that existing> > US time servers were based on atomic time in the US and thatF > additional round trip time meant that synching with US servers would) > leave you around 1/2 second behind GMT.i   Oh sigh... Funn things Pollies!l  ) But, there is a detail in there, sort of.b  : Because of leap seconds, there is not way to calculate the8 interval between 2 UTC points without a load od external% state. ( when Leap-Seconds happened )h   TAI does not have this problem.  --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.0@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 01:21:13 GMTi+ From: "Yeah, right..." <wild@intercomm.com>  Subject: sys$output problem"8 Message-ID: <k4bfvskqsqjqefepnsotuvjd8b7ttbnnr3@4ax.com>  @ I'm a newbie, having just installed my hobbyist VAX-VMS 7.2 on aC VAXstation 3100/76 SPX.  My problem:  When prompted for a username,o@ and you incorrectly type in the name, pressing the backspace keyD causes the incorrect text to be spit out mirror image.  How do I getC the (loginout.exe?) keyboard input routine to stop regurgitating mya input as a mirror image?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:54:22 -0600p7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e Subject: Re: sys$output problemN- Message-ID: <3A04CBDE.F047A386@earthlink.net>K   "Yeah, right..." wrote:r > B > I'm a newbie, having just installed my hobbyist VAX-VMS 7.2 on aE > VAXstation 3100/76 SPX.  My problem:  When prompted for a username,DB > and you incorrectly type in the name, pressing the backspace keyF > causes the incorrect text to be spit out mirror image.  How do I getE > the (loginout.exe?) keyboard input routine to stop regurgitating my  > input as a mirror image?  H Well, one of the bits in the system parameter TTY_DEFCHAR - bit 12 turnsG on the SCOPE characteristic which should produce the behavior you seek.eH This should be on by default, but it might not be the default for OPA0:./ So, in your SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, you may want to:o   $ SET TERM/PERM OPA0:/SCOPE>   --   David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:37:35 +0100t  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>$ Subject: Re: TCP/IP 5.0A ECO Appears+ Message-ID: <VA.0000014a.14081d45@sture.ch>e  F In article <ZR_M5.11$iB4.10761@news.enterprise.net>, NewsReader wrote:3 > From: "NewsReader" <NewsReader@NotOnYourLife.Com> 4 > Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.ucx,comp.os.vms& > Subject: Re: TCP/IP 5.0A ECO Appears& > Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 21:03:53 -0000 > L > I contacted Compaq after downloading the patch & not able to install. TheyK > said the PCSI kit wasn't available! (that was a week after the TCP/IP ECO N > was released). Now what is the point of releasing a kit we can't install? To& > tease us perhaps... I'm waiting too. > N I've been waiting too, albeit I'm only running a hobbyist system, so it isn't  urgent for me.  N I did start exploring the TCPIP kit with a view to doing a manual extraction, 3 but thought it better to wait for the official fix.m  F As Mark Jilson says, you should pester CSC until you get some results.9 > "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <eplan@kapsch.net> wrote in message & > news:3a02fe79$1@news.kapsch.co.at...2 > > In article <39dd80e2.71178799@news.hccnet.nl>,6 > a.koopman@markgraaf.nl.nospam (Adri Koopman) writes:J > > >Had the same problem on my mVAX 3100. Could not install the TCPIP_ECOK > > >kit, neither after applying VAXUPDATE1_072, allthough the PCSI version J > > >was V7.2-101. The readme said that there were problems with V7.2-100,K > > >so I thought that the ECO would install. I contacted DEC support about " > > >that problem and they send me@ > > >DEC-VAXVMS-VMS72_PCSI-A0100--4.PCSI-DCX_VAXEXE, which is anF > > >upgrade/patch to PCSI, which brings it to version V7.2-108. After@ > > >applying this kit, I was able to install the TCPIP_ECO kit. > >lH > > Did anyone know, what has happened to the final version of this kit.H > > The target date (1-nov) passed by, and I'm still not able to install+ > > the ECO 1 for TCPIP V5.0A on my VAXes ?l > >r > > Please ! > > 
 > > -Peter > >r4 > > PS: God, how I like my TCPware (on my server)... > > --@ > > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651? > > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888h@ > > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netL > > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist" >    ___s
 Paul Sture Switzerlandh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:20:03 -0400/- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>O# Subject: Technology of US elections , Message-ID: <3A0B8581.753F833F@videotron.ca>  N From the coverage of the florida elections, I got quick glances at what lookedM like the old punched cards, and there was mention of voters punching holes tog make their selections.  N What sort of technology is actually used ? And is this used nationwide or just in Florida.a  D Also, CNN announced that the Bush camp was given facilities by Dell.  M I would find it a great opportunity for Compaq to offer to furnish all states0' with state of the art voting equipment.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:04:06 -0500o# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>n0 Subject: Re: the lights are out at Northernlight+ Message-ID: <3A01D6C6.97E2D6C0@hsc.vcu.edu>m   they are surrounded by a ring of unix workstation that filter the www traffice and feed to and from a core of vmsclusters...  dunno  where the outage is..   & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > N > I just fired up Netscape V3.03 on the old Alphastation to do a search.  I'veN > been using Northernlight since they so proudly hail the use of OpenVMS Alpha7 > on their main page.  Sadly, I find myself staring at:m >  >   vvv---  grammar???J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------? > //the writes the channel changer for northernlight.com pages.u >  > function write_chan_chgr() { > K > document.write("<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=85%>");dZ > document.write("<tr><td colspan=4><img src=t.gif border=0 width=1 height=1></td></tr>");j > document.write("<tr><td colspan=3 bgcolor=#ffffff><img src=t.gif border=0 width=1 height=1></td></tr>");l > document.write("<tr><td bgcolor=#ffffff width=1 height=1><img src=t.gif border=0 width=1 height=1></td>");) > document.write("<td bgcolor=#ffffff>"); \ > document.write("<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=100% BGCOLOR=#ffffff>");` > document.write("<tr><td bgcolor=#ffffff><img src=t.gif border=0 width=1 height=6></td></tr>"); > document.write("<tr>");n > document.write("<TD align=center valign=middle BGCOLOR=#ffffff><a href=docs/gen_help_where.html><font face=arial,helvetica size=2>Help</font></a></td>");' > document.write("</tr>"); > document.write("<TR>");t > document.write("<TD align=center valign=middle BGCOLOR=#ffffff><a href=docs/member_accounts.html><font face=arial,helvetica size=2>Accounts</font></a></td>"); > document.write("</tr>"); > document.write("<TR>");o > document.write("<TD align=center valign=middle BGCOLOR=#ffffff><a href=docs/about_company_mission.html><font face=arial,helvetica size=2>About</font></a></td>");  > document.write("</tr>");a > document.write("<tr><td bgcolor=#ffffff><img src=t.gif border=0 width=1 height=10></td></tr>"); ) > document.write("<TR BGCOLOR=#ffffff>");  > document.write("<TD align=center valign=middle BGCOLOR=#ffffff><a href=/cgi-bin/cl_cliplist.pl><font face=arial,helvetica size=2>Alerts</font></a></td>"); > document.write("</tr>");) > document.write("<TR BGCOLOR=#ffffff>");C > document.write("<TD align=center valign=middle BGCOLOR=#ffffff><a href=http://finance.northernlight.com/portfolio.asp><font face=arial,helvetica size=2>Portfolio</font></a><BR></td>"); > document.write("</tr>");` > document.write("<tr><td bgcolor=#ffffff><img src=t.gif border=0 width=1 height=6></td></tr>"); > document.write("</table>");N > document.write("</td>");h > document.write("<td bgcolor=#ffffff width=1 height=1><img src=t.gif border=0 width=1 height=1></td>"); > document.write("</tr>");j > document.write("<tr><td colspan=3 bgcolor=#ffffff><img src=t.gif border=0 width=1 height=1></td></tr>"); > document.write("</table>");a >  > } J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > + > So, I disable JavaScript and I try again.h > N > I then decided to leave a message about this issue to NorthernLight at theirN > link /docs/gen_help_comments.html.  On this page is a form selection for the4 > operating system in use.  Here are the selections: >  >   Windows 95 >   Windows 98 >   Windows NT >   Windows 2000 >   Windows 3.1i
 >   Macintoshe >   UNIX > M > Notice anything missing?  What does this say about NorthernLight?  They useeM > VMS but they don't expect anybody else to?  Seems there's a rather dim bulb  > in that NorthernLight.  :( >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi > Q > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.t   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2000 21:00:33 GMTl1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n Subject: Re: Time Zone, Message-ID: <8tsklh$2q7b$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  2 In article <3a014cd2.2060383875@news.newsguy.com>,(  agreig@my-deja.com (Alan Greig) writes: |>I |>                                              but the Spring US date is I |> out of synch with almost everywhere else. I think that's the right way$	 |> round.i  D What do you mean the US date is out of synch??  We invented DaylightG Savings Time.  It's the rest of the world that's out of sync!!  :-) :-)v   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 23:15:48 GMTy2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Time Zone6 Message-ID: <8u7e34$5oe$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  g In article <39FF8A2F.E44231FD@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:Y  ,   re: How to reset for daylight savings time   :See HELP SUBMIT /AFTERr :o :...and do this in a batch job:e : " :In autumn:	$ SET TIME="-01:00:00" ..  H   That very likely won't have the expected results in all cases, and theK   SET TIME itself will be rejected if DTSS or other time-keeping mechanism sI   is enabled, and would definitely not be the approach I would suggest.  .I   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for directions on the daylight savings time  I   switch-over.  (Suggestions for updates to the time-related information tG   in the FAQ -- or most anything else, for that matter -- are welcome.)e  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:15:23 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>>5 Subject: TMSCP Performance (Backup -> ether -> TK70 ) , Message-ID: <3A0B8469.E3230609@videotron.ca>  N The other day, I tried to backup a workstation's disk over the ethernet to the! other node that has a TK70 drive.d  M the workstation, BIKE, has its TMSCP parameter set to 0 since it doesn't needd to serve tapes. M The server, VELO has its TMSCP parameter set to 1. The two nodes (VAX) are atm 7.2, linked by ethernet.  M if the backup command is issued on BIKE to write the saveset on a tape servedgJ by VELO, the tape does mount, and lights do flash, and no error message isK issued. Everything seems to work fine... except that backup command goes on  and on and on and on and on.    N From BIKE's point of view, BACKUP spends time doing heavy reading of the disk,8 and then waits, which is consistent to working properly.  L Is this a performance hit that is normal, or are there other parameters that5 can be adjusted to make this performance acceptable ?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:17:30 -0600) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> 4 Subject: Re: Transfering users via FTP & email lost.. Message-ID: <t0f404f8fim2b@corp.supernews.com>  = "Michael Angello" <techwebsite@netscape.net> wrote in messagew; news:20001107043225.25832.qmail@ww156.netaddress.usa.net...t Hello,F I am using OVMS AXP V7.2 on a AS800, and I am migrating some user dataE from other OVMS system to this one via ftp, because in the old systemoJ has no installed the network software feature needed to apply the COPY/RCPE command which could may transfer all user data (including mail files)dD with all of the atributes preserved. So, I tried to transfer of thatF info. via ftp, but when I try to read a user's email, the system shows a message like:" <snip>  K I would encapsulate the file in a BACKUP save-set before the transfer.  You L can then put the backup save-set in a ZIP (freeware tool) archive before the= transfer, or just send the backup saveset through and use thenD FIX_SAVESET.COM to restore the backup saveset attributes.  IIRC: The9 FIX_SAVESET.COM is on the latest OpenVMS Freeware CD-ROM.t  I See the OpenVMS faq at http://www.openvms.compaq.com for more informationr about this.   J Normally FTP can only be used with sequential file types, not index files.H When you read an indexed file sequentially, the index information is not
 preserved.  , The mail file is one of those indexed files.   -JohnM wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 23:57:31 GMT  From: trdorr@my-deja.com Subject: Use P1 in PIPEs) Message-ID: <8tsv18$2q2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s  3 I want to search with a different string each time.n# Is it possible to use P1 with PIPE?o   TYPE SHOWSYS.COM $!FILE: SHOWSYS.COMs, $ PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | SEARCH SYS$INPUT "'p1'"   Thanks,r Toms    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 19:53:42 -0500s# From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>u Subject: Re: Use P1 in PIPE ' Message-ID: <3A020C96.7D90@adldata.com>a  % If the p1 is in quotes. it should be b- $ PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | SEARCH SYS$INPUT "''p1'"    sol gongolaA   trdorr@my-deja.com wrote:. > 5 > I want to search with a different string each time.C% > Is it possible to use P1 with PIPE?d >  > TYPE SHOWSYS.COM > $!FILE: SHOWSYS.COM-. > $ PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | SEARCH SYS$INPUT "'p1'" > 	 > Thanks,t > Tomt > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri,  3 Nov 00 10:44:26 +100 From: rok@nuk.uni-lj.sir Subject: RE: Use P1 in PIPEi& Message-ID: <3a02a51f.0@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>  ( In Article <8tsv18$2q2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> trdorr@my-deja.com writes:4 >I want to search with a different string each time.$ >Is it possible to use P1 with PIPE? >d >TYPE SHOWSYS.COMh >$!FILE: SHOWSYS.COM- >$ PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | SEARCH SYS$INPUT "'p1'"r  !  Do you find anything wrong with:t  0 $ SHOWSYS:== PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | SEARCH SYS$INPUT   ?i   Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461 ; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 425 7293s Slovenia   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 02:08:15 GMT8 From: esystem@my-deja.comr! Subject: UTC time change and DTSSj) Message-ID: <8u7o6b$dr8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e  ? I have read the Time4 section of the OpenVMS FAQ several times.g? It has not helped much. What I am trying to find out is whetherc@ DTSS does SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM automatically. I do not> know much about DTSS, nor do I have access to machines running; DTSS. But I (the company I work for) has a customer runningi: DTSS on OpenVMS Alpha 7.1. The problem they reported makes2 me think that UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM has not been run.> Can someone enlighten me, please ? Is it possible to configure? a DTSS client to do UTC$TIME_SETUP automatically ? If possible,p@ it is something that a DTSS client does by default or some extra- steps need to be taken to make this to work ?       & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2000 10:48:16 -0800e From: old_timer@user.vms0 Subject: Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files( Message-ID: <8tv19g0jrt@drn.newsguy.com>   "Richard wrote:i >iK >        Ok, it has been years since I used it but there is a pair of DECn=o >et8K >utilities which can be used to bounce packets off a remote node and colle=  >ctn! >statistics on timing and errors.b >: >$ RUN SYS$SYSTEM: DTSENDa' >_TEST: CONNECT /NODENAME=3Dnode /PRINTe0 >_TEST: DATA /NODENAME=3Dnode /PRINT /STATISTICS >xC >See "DECnet for OpenVMS Network Management Utilities", part numberbF >AA-PV61A-TK (old number for an old manual; it's what I have at home). >-K >This requires that the remote node NOT have been locked down; i.e. you ne=  >eddI >a default DECNET account or some equivalent on the remote node.  I thinkeG >that the appropriate DECnet object must also be enabled (NOT have beeno2 >DISabled) on the remote node.   It's worth a try.  < Thanks.  I tried it, but I'm not sure what the results mean:   $ run sys$system:dtsenda  5 DTS Version 3.00 initiated on  3-NOV-2000 11:18:12.53e  & _Test: connect /nodename=apollo /print+ %NET-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion / _Test: data /nodename=apollo /print /statisticst+ %NET-S-NORMAL, normal successful completiong   Test Parameters:    Test duration (sec)  30     Target node          "APOLLO"    Line speed (baud)    1000000h    Message size (bytes) 128    Summary statistics:o#    Total messages XMIT  962  RECV 0     Total bytes XMIT     123136    Messages per second  32.06     Bytes per second     4104    Line thruput (baud)  32832r    %Line Utilization    3.283w   _Test: exit   ) DTS terminated on  3-NOV-2000 11:22:36.28e $g    9 >if the electronic link remains unreliable you might try=V >rK >something like sending TK50 tapes via the U.S. Snail and see if that stir=f >s >anyone to do anything.f  ? We FedEx 4mm DAT cartridges when we can't get the mail through. : Nobody seems to mind much about the cost or inconvenience.= (Not to mention the impression it must have on our customer).7   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2000 06:17:21 -0800A From: old_timer@user.vms0 Subject: Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files) Message-ID: <8u15ph02meu@drn.newsguy.com>R  	 JF wrote:  >rN >If I were you, i would generate a file that would contain numbered lines such >as: >xK >0001----+----1----+----2----+----3----+----4----+----5----+----6----+----7 K >0002----+----1----+----2----+----3----+----4----+----5----+----6----+----7lK >0003----+----1----+----2----+----3----+----4----+----5----+----6----+----7t >tO >etc all the way to 9999. (extend the lines to perhaps 99 characters per line).t >sM >Then send it often enough to duplicate the problem 3 times. You will then bebO >able to compare the results with the original and have a very good idea if ther! >files "break" at the same place.e  P Thanks for the excellent suggestion, but I have already done that.  As explainedN in earlier posts, the corruption occurs randomly (and sparsely) throughout the> file, in different places each time, and sometimes not at all.   There is no pattern.   ------------------------------   Date: 04 Nov 2000 19:08:36 GMT& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files0 Message-ID: <8u1mrk$sc9@dispatch.concentric.net>  ; I couldn't say for sure, but I suspect that the remote node 4 ISN'T VMS.  I would be interested in what the remote1 node was and what kind of DECNET emulation it wasO using.  F Given that transport to the same done doesn't corrupt and transmit via@ the remote does, the remote node software is the suspect entity.< DECnet will notice and handle errors even if it were running@ over a terminal line with LOTs of errors.  Bandwidth has NOTHINGD to do with this from your system's side.  It may be the cause on the$ remote side if it isn't running VMS.     just my opinion,   rick...i  H <old_timer@user.vms> wrote in message news:8tpkoi0vov@drn.newsguy.com...! > gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:r > > G > >In article <8tn0le01g3d@drn.newsguy.com>, old_timer@user.vms writes:NH > >>Is there any conceivable scenario under which network overload could cause a VAXrJ > >>mail transmission to arrive with embedded random errors in the message (as@K > >>opposed to, say, the message being truncated or timing out, which seems  at least > >>plausible?). > >eL > >None that I can currently think of. But perhaps you could post an example of an0L > >intact message and a corrupted one so that we can see what the difference is.c >nI > Imagine a 38000block plain text file, all of whose lines contain simplyeC > "This is a test".  Suppose the name of that text file is "X0.TXT"p >hE > E-mail that to yourself and force routing through the offsite node:r >l= > $ mail/noself X0.TXT offsitenode::mynode::myself /subj=testh >uF > When you get the message, extract it without headers to a file named X1.TXT:s >v > MAIL> ext/noh X1.TXT >  > Now compare the two files: >  > $ DIFF X0.TXT X1.TXT >iL > The "corruption" is that a small handful of random lines in X1.TXT will be) > garbled.  The rest of the file is fine.4 > ? > Now here's an interesting piece of evidence; and I think it'sg
 significant -NE > perhaps there are network-savvy people in this ng who could help mes discern whatL > it means.  If, instead of routing the test e-mail through an off-site node , IoL > instead route it through a node within our site, then there no corruption: >-< > $ mail/noself X0.TXT onsitenode::mynode::myself /subj=test >aG > My common sense tells me this is significant; but the help desk folksd weren'th > too interested in it.  >t >r2 > >A DIR/FULL on the two files would help as well. > F > The file attributes are not getting hit.  In the above example, both
 X0.TXT and% > X1.TXT are standard RMS text files:c >g > $ dir/full X0.TXTc >p > Directory U1:[JOE] >i6 > X0.TXT;1                      File ID:  (12345,12,1)/ > Size:        38086/38088      Owner:    [JOE]u# > Created:   1-NOV-2000 12:31:02.72c' > Revised:   1-NOV-2000 12:33:10.20 (3)r > Expires:   <None specified> ! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>t  > File organization:  SequentialJ > File attributes:    Allocation: 38088, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0& >                     No version limit1 > Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 14 bytes 6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None? > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:t > Access Cntrl List:  None >t& > Total of 1 file, 38086/38088 blocks. > $l >=   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2000 17:47:56 -0800i From: old_timer@user.vms0 Subject: Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files) Message-ID: <8u2e8c011bs@drn.newsguy.com>"   Rick wrote:r >l< >I couldn't say for sure, but I suspect that the remote node >ISN'T VMS.    The remote node is VMS 5.5-2.>   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 07:52:52 GMTo3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)C0 Subject: Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files0 Message-ID: <8u5o0k$5ke$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  D In article <8u2e8c011bs@drn.newsguy.com>, old_timer@user.vms writes: >Rick wrote: >>= >>I couldn't say for sure, but I suspect that the remote nodew
 >>ISN'T VMS. O >f >The remote node is VMS 5.5-2.  E And what is in-between? Switches, routers, leased lines, what type of.
 lines,...?   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannn  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 16:10:11 GMTt3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) 0 Subject: Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files0 Message-ID: <8u6l53$gh1$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  D In article <8u6d6g01i1b@drn.newsguy.com>, old_timer@user.vms writes:  >gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote: >>F >>In article <8u2e8c011bs@drn.newsguy.com>, old_timer@user.vms writes: >>>Rick wrote: >>>>? >>>>I couldn't say for sure, but I suspect that the remote nodee >>>>ISN'T VMS.   >>>k  >>>The remote node is VMS 5.5-2. >>G >>And what is in-between? Switches, routers, leased lines, what type oft >>lines,...? > O >OK; how do I go about obtaining that information?  As I stated earlier in this.K >thread, I am not a sysadmin, only an end user, but I can get access to thesO >system account on my local node if I know exactly what commands I need to run.  >mO >I do not have physical access to the computer room, but I could talk my way inp7 >there (once) if I knew exactly what I was looking for.E  K Ask your local system administrators. They should know exactly how the linerH between your local node and the remote node has been physically created.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann.  5 P.S.: Why don't you give us your real e-mail address?e  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 15:47:53 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 0 Subject: Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files, Message-ID: <3A070AE8.74C89811@videotron.ca>   old_timer@user.vms wrote:s3 > OK; how do I go about obtaining that information?a    L I would call your friendly but useless support people and tell them that youM need to certify a piece of software that they do not support.  The software's J vendor and support folks require detailed architrecture of your systems soV that they can do their work. As a result, you need to provide them with the following:7 	-your system VMS version, and architecture (Alpha/Vax) ; 	-DECnet version (real decnet (4) or that fancy decnet (5).eM 	-type of link between the two machines, and exactly what routers/bridges arel being used, andT0 	 what version and options are in those routers.G 	-Are decnet packets routed as decnet packets, or encapsulated in TCPIPs	 packets ?V    J Since these questions are likely to be way over the qualifications of yourL support folks from your description of their abilities, they are unlikely toN be able to answer. Send your questions in writing and require a written answer (or email).i  N Once you have evidence that they are incapable of answering this question, you+ can then escalate this inside your company.-    J Alternatively, are you able to contact the folks at the remote node ? HaveN they done anything at their end to investigate your problem ? Or are they also( supported by the same outsourced folks ?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Nov 2000 12:09:58 -0800t From: old_timer@user.vms0 Subject: Re: VAX Mail question - corrupted files) Message-ID: <8u736m0179m@drn.newsguy.com>    gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:  > E >In article <8u6d6g01i1b@drn.newsguy.com>, old_timer@user.vms writes:a! >>gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:t >>>cG >>>In article <8u2e8c011bs@drn.newsguy.com>, old_timer@user.vms writes:V >>>>Rick wrote:s >>>>> @ >>>>>I couldn't say for sure, but I suspect that the remote node >>>>>ISN'T VMS.  >>>>! >>>>The remote node is VMS 5.5-2.n >>>aH >>>And what is in-between? Switches, routers, leased lines, what type of
 >>>lines,...?n >>P >>OK; how do I go about obtaining that information?  As I stated earlier in thisL >>thread, I am not a sysadmin, only an end user, but I can get access to theP >>system account on my local node if I know exactly what commands I need to run. >>P >>I do not have physical access to the computer room, but I could talk my way in8 >>there (once) if I knew exactly what I was looking for. > L >Ask your local system administrators. They should know exactly how the lineI >between your local node and the remote node has been physically created.a  O Sorry you missed the earlier postings in this thread where the problem was laid C out in greater detail.  There are no local sys admins (none who ares knowledgeable).s  P Any helpful advice on how I could personally go about gathering the information # you requested would be appreciated.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 01:54:49 GMTf2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code7 Message-ID: <JtnO5.7858$Qz2.306632@typhoon.aracnet.com>s  * antonio.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:> > It's not entirely unknown for people with the service manual9 > in front of them to spend half an hour thinking they'ves= > just destroyed a VS4000-90 after tinkering with the memory.s  H Well, considering I've never known if it was a working system or not....  1 > Eventually they twigged that the memory goes inf5 > the slots in a "funnny" order and that you'd bettero4 > pay close attention to reading the labels by every$ > single slot 'cos it's not regular.  K Really?  Something tells me I need better lighting, I couldn't even see anyhK labels next to the slots.  I'll have to try and find time to check this out- when I get home tonite.   I I take it the memory doesn't go directly in order starting with the firstg slot directly to the back.  > > Of course, you are probably much more careful than I was ...   Doesn't sound like it.   			Zane    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:56:42 +0100: From: "Maarten van Breemen" <Maarten.van.Breemen@notox.nl>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code, Message-ID: <8udvpc$1qh$1@porthos.nl.uu.net>  7 VS400-60 memory is not compatible with VS400-90 memory.u  1 Model 60 can take MS44-DA (2x16) or MS44-BA (2x4)01 Model 90 can take MS44-DC (4x16) or MS44-BC (4x4)    Regards, MaartenT  = "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in messagec1 news:fM3O5.7826$Qz2.291411@typhoon.aracnet.com... K > I've had a VAXstation 4000-90 without any RAM for a couple years now, andS asJ > of yesterday I've got a VAXstation 4000-60 with enough 16MB SIMMs that I canh > test out the -90.  >tL > I pulled 4 16MB SIMMs and installed them as per the Service Manual for theK > -90.  Upon turning the -90 on it gives me a error code of "F2h".  Lookingu atL > the list of error codes in the service manual I don't see this one listed.! > Does anyone know what it means?r >-G > I'm assuming the -90 is dead, and I suspected that when I got it, butI woulds > like to verify.h >PK > Is the PowerSupply or anything else from the -90 usable as spares for theH > -60? >" > Zane >D   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 13:01:22 +0000S4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code8 Message-ID: <bn7l0tsb84425s3v4k5d0apsuml6d2mqaj@4ax.com>  8 On Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:56:42 +0100, "Maarten van Breemen"% <Maarten.van.Breemen@notox.nl> wrote:-  8 >VS400-60 memory is not compatible with VS400-90 memory. >e2 >Model 60 can take MS44-DA (2x16) or MS44-BA (2x4)2 >Model 90 can take MS44-DC (4x16) or MS44-BC (4x4)  G What makes you think these are not exactly the same parts, but suppliedeF in 2's for the -60 and 4's for the -90 ?   I've swapped boards betweenH machines without any apparent problems (other than working out the weirdG bank layout in the -90 and the equally obscure ordering of 8Mb and 32Mbs pairs in the -60...)   	Johnp --  
 John Laird   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:18:34 +0100: From: "Maarten van Breemen" <Maarten.van.Breemen@notox.nl>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code, Message-ID: <8uef4c$do1$1@porthos.nl.uu.net>   Hello John,S  K It's a pity that I find this out only now. A few months ago I parted from awJ fully loaded VS4000-M60 in favour of a VS4000-M90 with half of it's memory4 banks filled. Never got the idea to just try it out.   Regards, Maarten_  A "John Laird" <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in messages2 news:bn7l0tsb84425s3v4k5d0apsuml6d2mqaj@4ax.com...: > On Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:56:42 +0100, "Maarten van Breemen"' > <Maarten.van.Breemen@notox.nl> wrote:i >w: > >VS400-60 memory is not compatible with VS400-90 memory. > > 4 > >Model 60 can take MS44-DA (2x16) or MS44-BA (2x4)4 > >Model 90 can take MS44-DC (4x16) or MS44-BC (4x4) >NI > What makes you think these are not exactly the same parts, but suppliedOH > in 2's for the -60 and 4's for the -90 ?   I've swapped boards betweenJ > machines without any apparent problems (other than working out the weirdI > bank layout in the -90 and the equally obscure ordering of 8Mb and 32MbC > pairs in the -60...) >e > John > -- > John Laird   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:41:09 -0600e/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> * Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error CodeO Message-ID: <01548166A96D0E2F.39ED85B12656EB04.6377E9EA6920AE82@lp.airnews.net>d   "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > , > antonio.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:@ > > It's not entirely unknown for people with the service manual; > > in front of them to spend half an hour thinking they'vem? > > just destroyed a VS4000-90 after tinkering with the memory.e > J > Well, considering I've never known if it was a working system or not.... > 3 > > Eventually they twigged that the memory goes in 7 > > the slots in a "funnny" order and that you'd better 6 > > pay close attention to reading the labels by every& > > single slot 'cos it's not regular. > M > Really?  Something tells me I need better lighting, I couldn't even see any M > labels next to the slots.  I'll have to try and find time to check this outl > when I get home tonite.t > K > I take it the memory doesn't go directly in order starting with the firstm > slot directly to the back.  E If I remember correctly, the first bank of memory sockets is labelledvF 0A, 0B, 0C, 0D.  These are NOT in order.  In fact, they might not even+ be alternate sockets.  The layout is weird.   G -----------------------------------------------------------------------u$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com l   Fax: 817-237-3074t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:31:11 GMT-2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code7 Message-ID: <zIEO5.7902$Qz2.321091@typhoon.aracnet.com>-  5 John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:eJ > There is a symmetry, I think.  From memory (and thinking of the slots asB > 1-8), one bank is 1, 3, 6 and 8, and the other is 2, 4, 5 and 7.  G Well, going from memory that's only about an hour old, this is correct.   I > But I could be wrong ;-)  What you really need is either the manual, oreI > a *very* powerful light source and a duster, to locate and decipher theiE > incredibly poorly defined markings.  The banks are 0 and 1, and the < > individual slots are A-D.  (Hope I got something right...)  M The strong light is a must!  It's virtually impossible to see those numbers! 9H It's no wonder I didn't see them a couple nights ago.  If you don't knowL they're there and were looking specifically for them, you'd never spot them!  J > Another fine design from someone who obviously wasn't allowed out of the< > design labs enough.  Vengeance was indeed his.  (Or hers.)  I Doubly so since you also have to pull out the Hard Drive cage!  Done in a K reasonable manual you'd only have to do that if you added a second RAM kit!s   				Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:28:05 GMTv2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code7 Message-ID: <FFEO5.7899$Qz2.321091@typhoon.aracnet.com>s  0 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:G > If I remember correctly, the first bank of memory sockets is labelled.H > 0A, 0B, 0C, 0D.  These are NOT in order.  In fact, they might not even- > be alternate sockets.  The layout is weird.>  K BINGO!!!  That was indeed the answer to *that* problem.  Now I seem to haveAE a problem with the SCSI interface.  I was finally able to get the >>>mL prompt and tried to boot off of a HD I put in the system (from the Model 60)L and from an external CD-ROM (that I'd just used to load the Model 60).  Here was my results:a   >>> b dka0:s     -DKA0e %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00001340  %VMB-I-STS, R0 = 00000912  >>>n
 >>> b dka400:i     -DKA400c %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00001340k %VMB-I-STS, R0 = 00000912o >>>n  ' DKA0: is the HD, DKA400: is the CD-ROM.p     				Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:31:09 +0000t+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>n* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code' Message-ID: <3A0B179D.7BE00F6D@iee.org>    John Laird wrote:aJ > There is a symmetry, I think.  From memory (and thinking of the slots asB > 1-8), one bank is 1, 3, 6 and 8, and the other is 2, 4, 5 and 7.  
 That's right.h5 Front to back they are 0D, 1H, 0B, 1F, 1G, 0C, 1E, 0Ah@ Just to be more helpful they are also labelled J3, J21, J19 etc.  f > But I could be wrong ;-)     Nope - you got the right order.   / > What you really need is either the manual, or   7 Didn't help me ... in one eye, out the other. Brain sawe4 what it wanted to see. At least until the eye hit itC often enough with a two-by-four screaming "1F, 1G in the middle!!!"     nI > a *very* powerful light source and a duster, to locate and decipher thee  = I had to look at one in the flesh just now to make absolutely F sure ... ordinary torch and no duster (definitely no duster please!!).  J > Another fine design from someone who obviously wasn't allowed out of the< > design labs enough.  Vengeance was indeed his.  (Or hers.)  > As it was such a powerful box, I'll forgive them. I'm not sure8 I'll forgive whoever left one in a box under a bench for6 three years while I used a VS3100-76 ... finally I hit5 a situation where a visit by the auditors was useful!    Happy days :-)  / So - is this venerable VS4000-90 saved or what?d   Antonioo ---------------u- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org,   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:39:31 +0000 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code8 Message-ID: <mi2m0tcgu913pqnrl7a6mgva426anou186@4ax.com>  1 On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:41:09 -0600, Chris Scheers," <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:   >"Zane H. Healy" wrote:1 >> ,- >> antonio.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:-A >> > It's not entirely unknown for people with the service manuale< >> > in front of them to spend half an hour thinking they've@ >> > just destroyed a VS4000-90 after tinkering with the memory. >>L >> I take it the memory doesn't go directly in order starting with the first >> slot directly to the back.- >-F >If I remember correctly, the first bank of memory sockets is labelledG >0A, 0B, 0C, 0D.  These are NOT in order.  In fact, they might not evenc, >be alternate sockets.  The layout is weird.  H There is a symmetry, I think.  From memory (and thinking of the slots as@ 1-8), one bank is 1, 3, 6 and 8, and the other is 2, 4, 5 and 7.  G But I could be wrong ;-)  What you really need is either the manual, or G a *very* powerful light source and a duster, to locate and decipher theyC incredibly poorly defined markings.  The banks are 0 and 1, and the-: individual slots are A-D.  (Hope I got something right...)  H Another fine design from someone who obviously wasn't allowed out of the: design labs enough.  Vengeance was indeed his.  (Or hers.)   	John  --  
 John Laird   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:42:18 -0500b2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error CodeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0911001842190001@user-2ive69p.dialup.mindspring.com>  h In article <8udvpc$1qh$1@porthos.nl.uu.net>, "Maarten van Breemen" <Maarten.van.Breemen@notox.nl> wrote:  9 > VS400-60 memory is not compatible with VS400-90 memory.i > 3 > Model 60 can take MS44-DA (2x16) or MS44-BA (2x4)_3 > Model 90 can take MS44-DC (4x16) or MS44-BC (4x4)t   I don't know exactly what these numbers refer to.  Maybe they are order numbers for _kits_?  I have moved SIMMS between the two systems without problems.  Clearpoint, who make memory for these systems, claim they are the same SIMMS.  U The only difference is that the -60 takes 2 at a time, and the -90 takes 4 at a time.;   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:52:41 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error CodeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0911001852410001@user-2ive69p.dialup.mindspring.com>  k In article <FFEO5.7899$Qz2.321091@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:a  M > BINGO!!!  That was indeed the answer to *that* problem.  Now I seem to haveoG > a problem with the SCSI interface.  I was finally able to get the >>> N > prompt and tried to boot off of a HD I put in the system (from the Model 60)N > and from an external CD-ROM (that I'd just used to load the Model 60).  Here > was my results:- > 
 > >>> b dka0:  >  >  > -DKA0o > %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00001340  > %VMB-I-STS, R0 = 00000912  > >>>o > >>> b dka400:  >  > 	 > -DKA400  > %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00001340| > %VMB-I-STS, R0 = 00000912  > >>>  > ) > DKA0: is the HD, DKA400: is the CD-ROM.-    < Does it pass the power-up tests?  What does SHOW DEVICE say?   The SCSI ID of the controller can be changed at the console. IIRC the default was 6, but it can be anything.  Do you have an ID conflict?i  W Isn't VMB a boot progrem that comes from the disk?  Or is it in ROM?  I can't remember.r  ( Why do you think this is a SCSI problem?   Can you put the disk back in the -60 and make the -90 boot over esa0 as a satellite?  That lets you boot without using SCSI at all.f   -- h Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comd   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:00:22 GMTh2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code7 Message-ID: <GMHO5.7917$Qz2.323274@typhoon.aracnet.com>v  * antonio.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:1 > So - is this venerable VS4000-90 saved or what?e  J Well, it's closer, however as I mentioned in another post it's still got a boot problem to overcome.r   			Zanec   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:22:07 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code7 Message-ID: <35IO5.7920$Qz2.323684@typhoon.aracnet.com>   3 Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:e$ > Does it pass the power-up tests?    L Yes, but....  It had some error on the graphics board.  I'm guessing that is5 because it isn't connected to a monitor at this time.e   > What does SHOW DEVICE say?  J Well, I'm not at home right now, so can't check it.  However, it looked OK/ to me, at least I didn't notice anything wrong.e  H > The SCSI ID of the controller can be changed at the console. IIRC the E > default was 6, but it can be anything.  Do you have an ID conflict?M  J If I did, then I'd be seeing wierdness when I do the SHOW DEVICE, wouldn't I?  J > Isn't VMB a boot progrem that comes from the disk?  Or is it in ROM?  I  > can't remember.r  & I'm suspecting that's coming from ROM.  * > Why do you think this is a SCSI problem?  J No real reason.  Seemed likely since I'm trying to boot off of SCSI disks,& however, I could very likely be wrong.  J > Can you put the disk back in the -60 and make the -90 boot over esa0 as = > a satellite?  That lets you boot without using SCSI at all.t  F If I have to this is the route I'll be taking.  Assuming this works ofL course.  The only simular errors I've been able to dig up with DejaNews haveH been related to the VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000!  Two were people trying toJ netboot, the third someone trying to boot off of tape.  Unfortuanatly none0 of those gave any indication as to the solution.   			Zane    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Nov 2000 00:02:52 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)E Subject: Re: VAXstation, console terminal, reboot, power-up, license?c6 Message-ID: <8u7grc$6po$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  [ In article <8tpnu4$3n3$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:n- :I have a VAXstation...when I switch off the uI :console terminal and switch it back on, I'm back at the >>> and have to   :tell it to boot...pH :First, is this behaviour expected?  Second, if so, can someone explain  :it?  J   Others have answered, but also please remember to check the OpenVMS FAQ.H   In particular, "SUPP3. Why does my system halt when I power-cycle the    console terminal?"  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 06:28:53 +0100r  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>( Subject: Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?+ Message-ID: <VA.00000148.090ea457@sture.ch>l  1 In article <8tpjv7$77p$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  wrote: . > From: alphaman-nix-spam@hsv.sungardtrust.com > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms * > Subject: Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?% > Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 17:30:14 GMT  > 8 > In article <9EPD5.597$iY1.12813@sodalite.nbnet.nb.ca>,+ >   "Marco Shaw" <marco@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: B > > Are any commercial databases available for VMS hobbyist (at no
 > charge)? > >d	 > > Marcot > >c >  > Marco, > D > Yes.  Check out Cache from Intersys -- you can get a free downloadG > along with a license (currently good through the end of the year) at:2 > 0 >  http://www.e-dbms.com/beta/distributions.html > E > It runs on a variety of platforms, but OpenVMS is its first love...g > D > (I've not tried it yet myself, but it does look promising, and its- > legacy in the OpenVMS world is well known.)S > F Thanks for the link. At 105,283,584 bytes, folks on dial up lines may ) want to wait for cheap weekend rates. :-)a   ___a
 Paul Sture Switzerlandw   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:37:36 +0100e  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>( Subject: Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?+ Message-ID: <VA.0000014b.14082478@sture.ch>w  1 In article <8tun9r$evd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  wrote:0. > From: alphaman-nix-spam@hsv.sungardtrust.com > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsl* > Subject: Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?% > Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:57:52 GMTn > - > In article <VA.00000148.090ea457@sture.ch>,n >   paul@sture.ch wrote: > :. > :oI > > Thanks for the link. At 105,283,584 bytes, folks on dial up lines mayu- > > want to wait for cheap weekend rates. :-)e > >e > > ___P > > Paul Sture > > Switzerlandg >  > ROTFLMAO!  Sorry 'bout that! > I > However, you may want to drop them a note to see if they can ship you a,E > copy on CD.  I know they've sent an eval copy to folks in my officee, > before, albeit for a different platform... > G Thanks for the suggestion. I'll do that, as I'm busy downloading other  , stuff and patches for my shiny new Alpha :-)   > Best,n > Aaronm > --" > OpenVMS: the OS MS wanted NT 2B. > I Snigger. Have you seen their excuse for telnet? My VMS box even gives me rI a rather more "pleasing to the eye" telnet interface to linux than linux m
 itself :-) ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerlandm   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 07:00:06 GMTI- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)y7 Subject: Re: VMS Fortran question: entering hex numbersk5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-UV8f5nF3fRIq@localhost>8  / On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:04:50, "Russell E. Owen"  / <owen@astroNOJNK.washington.edu.invalid> wrote:a  H > The VMS Fortran help say that a hex constant is written as Z'd...' or H > Z"d...d". I suspect they are referring to constants within the source E > code, because it does NOT work for free-format reading values into I > integers.t > I > Is there some way to specify a hex value when free-format reading into  J > an integer? (We have a several configuration files that would be easier J > to read if their values were expressed in hex or even binary instead of  > decimal.)u   If you're trying to use a         READ *, ivaluel   to read a line liken       z'A001'0   it will not work   If you want to       READ (5,1000) valuet 1000 format (z4)   to read6    z'A001'  ? that wont work either BUT you could then read a line containing4    A0016   and get 40961 (?) in value.    Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 22:17:28 GMTt- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)-0 Subject: Re: VMS VMAIL, SMTP transports, headers0 Message-ID: <3a09d085.25752590@swen.process.com>  D On 8 Nov 2000 18:17:34 GMT, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) wrote:  ` >In article <001108105158.202000b9@goatley.com>, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> writes: >>A >>In any case, it's true that PMDF does not include all the localmC >>recipients.  I don't know if there's a way to make it behave like B >>MultiNet's SMTP, but you can do ensure that by setting a defaultH >>transport of IN% for users, so that all the addresses specified on theC >>VMS Mail To: and CC: lines get passed through PMDF, bypassing any  >>local VMS Mail delivery. >> > : >How do you set a default transport of IN% for all users ? >uE I don't think you can, easily.  Inside MAIL, do SET TRANSPORT IN% for F each account.  That's the goal.  Can it be done easily?  Probably not,? though you could hack the VMSMAIL_PROFILE file without too mucht trouble.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/b: goathunter@goatley.com      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:33:55 GMTn- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)r0 Subject: Re: VMS VMAIL, SMTP transports, headers0 Message-ID: <3a0b0a25.26113959@swen.process.com>  B On 9 Nov 2000 13:22:51 +0100, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote:  a >In article <3a09d085.25752590@swen.process.com>, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) writes:TG >>I don't think you can, easily.  Inside MAIL, do SET TRANSPORT IN% foruH >>each account.  That's the goal.  Can it be done easily?  Probably not,A >>though you could hack the VMSMAIL_PROFILE file without too much2
 >>trouble. > H >Or one could (finally) extend MAILUAF to add a /TRANSPORT qualifier andB >wildcard support for the username (or a /ALL_USERS qualifier) ;-) >Z+ If there were more hours in the day.... 8-)u   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/t: goathunter@goatley.com      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 21:28:23 -0500i4 From: "Craig D. Lansing (root)" <lansing@beldar.com> Subject: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN* Message-ID: <3A0768C7.9B7B035C@beldar.com>  H Please excuse my VMS ignorance (i.e. I've never used it at all), but I'mE trying to figure out a vendor's position.  As a little background, wedB have several applications that communicate with each other via BSDB sockets on an HP-9000 (HP-UX), HP-3000 (MPE), and Windows 9x.  AllH mesages are ASCII text < .5K in length.  This is all written in C and isG portable across all platforms.  We are looking at replacing some of the F applications with a product that runs on DEC Alphas written in FORTRANB (77 I think).  The vendor says that we need to replace the socketsG communication with serial  (RS-232) connections between the systems viabE a terminal server.  This seems to be a huge step backward.  Is anyone F familiar with whether or not sockets will work on a VMS platform?  CanB this be written in FORTRAN?  I doubt that we can get the vendor toF change his mind, but I am mostly just curious about whether or not the capability exists.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 21:17:00 -0600) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>1" Subject: Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN/ Message-ID: <t0esu5a8da0935@corp.supernews.com>m  8 "Craig D. Lansing (root)" <lansing@beldar.company> wrote0  in message news:3A0768C7.9B7B035C@beldar.com...6 > Please excuse my VMS ignorance (i.e. I've never used? > it at all), but I'm trying to figure out a vendor's position.a  ) I hope that you will find it easy to use.i  6 > As a little background, we have several applications2 > that communicate with each other via BSD sockets+ > on an HP-9000 (HP-UX), HP-3000 (MPE), andn2 > Windows 9x.  All mesages are ASCII text < .5K in	 > length.   5 > This is all written in C and is portable across all=1 > platforms.  We are looking at replacing some of 2 > the applications with a product that runs on DEC) > Alphas written in FORTRAN (77 I think).s  - > The vendor says that we need to replace the - > sockets communication with serial  (RS-232) 0 > connections between the systems via a terminal1 > server.  This seems to be a huge step backward.95 > Is anyone familiar with whether or not sockets will 1 > work on a VMS platform?  Can this be written ink
 > FORTRAN?  J Socket calls work just fine on OpenVMS when there is a TCP/IP program also
 installed.  C OpenVMS has a calling convention for all languages to allow them to,	 interact.h  @ Fortran routines can call C routines and the reverse on OpenVMS.  F If the (I assumed) purchase product only knows how to communicate with- serial ports, then I can see the limitations.   . > I doubt that we can get the vendor to change. > his mind, but I am mostly just curious about' > whether or not the capability exists.y  J I would suggest that you contact your Compaq representative, and ask aboutK getting some pre-sales technical assistance.  They may be able to help with  your issues.  G In my case they have helped considerably to justify the purchase of newd machine.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:45:27 -0500h, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>" Subject: Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN> Message-ID: <hshubs-87EADB.23452706112000@news.mindspring.com>  E In article <3A0768C7.9B7B035C@beldar.com>, "Craig D. Lansing (root)" t <lansing@beldar.com> wrote:y  4 >The vendor says that we need to replace the socketsH >communication with serial  (RS-232) connections between the systems via; >a terminal server.  This seems to be a huge step backward.-  M You'd get zero argument on this topic from me.  We're trying to get -rid- of nH terminal servers.  If there's another product available, I'd look at it. -- s Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 23:24:25 -0500"4 From: "Craig D. Lansing (root)" <lansing@beldar.com>" Subject: Re: VMS, BSD, and FORTRAN* Message-ID: <3A08D579.76DBFD47@beldar.com>  F Thank you all for confirming what I knew must be the case.  I couldn'tI imagine a current OS that did not support sockets.  Unfortunately, we aremI dealing with a vendor who acquired the client and doesn't want to have totK learn to support a "new" technology.  Howard, is there a reason for wantingiK to "get -rid- of terminal servers".  The application is 24x7x365, real-timetJ .  After about an hour of downtime, the costs are in the 10's or thousandsC of dollars per hour for lost production.  My fear is just adding aniG additional layer of failure points, i.e. the terminal server and serial;% connections to the HP-9000 via a DTC.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:08:43 -0700p% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>k Subject: VS4000-60 Parts Needed C Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001109200703.04b408d8@pop.clsp.qwest.net>n  G I have a 4000-60 that needs the bank of switches that contains the haltiE button, the headphone connector, etc., that lives under the flip-down D panel at the right front of the system.  It appears to connect via aE 50-pin cable to the motherboard.  I think I can make this system workuF if somebody has parts from a dead system they would be willing to part with.0   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+,I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |mI | Principal Engineer            |  "Those are my principles. If you     |4I | Process Software              |   don't like them I have others."     | I | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    | I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 06:28:52 +0100t  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>> Subject: Re: Was Rdb on VMS reference? - now off-topic, pucker+ Message-ID: <VA.00000147.090e9f23@sture.ch>m  N In article <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE3164CE@REAES2>, John POWERS wrote:/ > From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@sema.co.uk>  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsX@ > Subject: Was RE: Rdb on VMS reference? - now off-topic, pucker' > Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:44:14 +0000  > K > I think this was a misssspelling of the adjective 'pukka'. This is commonsL > enough in British English, thanks to our Colonial past. It comes (I think)J > from Hindi word for 'cooked', and means top-hole, spiffing or absolutelyL > first-class. Dunno if it has made its way into American English, seems not > by the sound of it.d > N I too thought it came from the colonial links with India. To me it meant "the N genuine article", certainly in the context of having "pukka Rdb for VMS", but M can imagine it used in "spiffing", "top hole" etc. (We're getting into upper DI class toff language to my ears, which would nicely fit with the colonial   connotations).  6 Here's what Merriam Webster has to say on the subject:   Main Entry: pukka Pronunciation: 'p&-k&  Function: adjectivel@ Etymology: Hindi pakkA cooked, ripe, solid, from Sanskrit pakva;- akin to Greek pessein to cook -- more at COOK 
 Date: 1698& GENUINE, AUTHENTIC; also : FIRST-CLASS   ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerlandb   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 22:24:46 +0100* From: "Nick Colella" <medevil@infinito.it> Subject: What is VMS?t, Message-ID: <8tsm4r$i67$1@serv1.albacom.net>  4 I want to know more about vms and open vms, what is? It's an OS? were i can find it?a Tnx MeDevilo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 22:05:58 -0600u7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>H Subject: Re: What is VMS?a- Message-ID: <3A0239A6.98EC0E3F@earthlink.net>o   Nick Colella wrote:h > 6 > I want to know more about vms and open vms, what is?! > It's an OS? were i can find it?p
 > Tnx MeDevilg   This post is a troll, right?   If not, see:   http://www.openvms.digital.com/a   -- , David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/4  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 11:44:35 +0100 + From: Michal Grotthuss <michalg@tch.com.pl>  Subject: What OpenVMS version?$ Message-ID: <3A029713.744A1A@tch.pl>  & --------------4C28BD92C9EC68EFEFEF7A81* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitd   Hi all,bD Does anybody know what is the highest supported OpenVMS version that@ might be run on DEC 3000/M800 machine with the lastest installed firmware (i.e. v 5.8)?G I have already upgraded my system on such a machine from 6.2 to 7.2-1h1S  and not all seems to be correct.E For example simple "$sh user" command from time to time gives effectsdB like this (please set fixed width font on your browser to see it):  	 $ sh user 7       OpenVMS User Processes at  2-NOV-2000 12:26:48.17t8     Total number of users = 6,  number of processes = 13  1  Username         Interactive  Subprocess   Batche"                        3         1  DLUGOBORSKA           2  KAPICA                1  MICHAS                2"  MIZERSKI              2         1  WALCZAK               1  E 3 interactive processes and 1 subprocess seem to be without username.oB There is similar situation if you perform "$sh user/full" command:   $ sh user/full7       OpenVMS User Processes at  2-NOV-2000 12:26:57.31a8     Total number of users = 6,  number of processes = 13  /  Username     Process Name     PID     Terminal0?               DLUGOBORSKA_1  000000B7  (subprocess of 000000B1).6               NAUMIUK        000000BC  VTA20:   TNA22:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.131  Port:h 1085)k6               PIENKOSZ       000000B2  VTA17:   TNA19:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.83   Port:x 1040) 6               SELIGA         000000B0  VTA15:   TNA17:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.7    Port:  61492)6  DLUGOBORSKA  DLUGOBORSKA    000000B1  VTA16:   TNA18:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.178  Port:  1050)S6  DLUGOBORSKA  _VTA28:        000000CC  VTA28:   TNA30:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.178  Port:0 1218) 6  KAPICA       KAPICA         000000CA  VTA27:   TNA29:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.28   Port:l 1085)a6  MICHAS       MICHAS         000000C0  VTA21:   TNA23:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.8    Port:u 62148)5  MICHAS       _VTA24:        000000C3  VTA24:  TNA26:0E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.8    Port:. 61396)6  MIZERSKI     MIZERSKI       000000C6  VTA25:   TNA27:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.87   Port:d 2311)a?  MIZERSKI     MIZERSKI_1     000000CB  (subprocess of 000000C6)y6  MIZERSKI     _VTA26:        000000C7  VTA26:   TNA28:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.87   Port:- 2312)m6  WALCZAK      _VTA23:        000000C2  VTA23:   TNA25:E                                             (Host: 10.10.0.80   Port:y 2304)l  H After thorough study I have found a way to "correct" this but only for aB short moment. Just seeing processes of "hidden" users corrects the
 situation:   $ sh proc /id=b7 $ sh proc /id=bc $ sh proc /id=b0 $ sh proc /id=b2   ... and all is OK:  	 $ sh user-7       OpenVMS User Processes at  2-NOV-2000 12:31:08.71 8     Total number of users = 8,  number of processes = 13  1  Username         Interactive  Subprocess   Batchh"  DLUGOBORSKA           2         1  KAPICA                1  MICHAS                2"  MIZERSKI              2         1  NAUMIUK               1  PIENKOSZ              1  SELIGA                1  WALCZAK               1    G Does anybody know what could it mean? Do I need to downgrade my OpenVMSoC version? If so, what is the highest version I may install on my DECe 3000/M800 machine?H Please send an answer also to private address i.e. michalg@tch.com.pl or michalg@tch.pl.    Regards, Michal Grotthuss TCH Systems, Warsawy  & --------------4C28BD92C9EC68EFEFEF7A81) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiv Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bity  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <tt>Hi all,</tt>G <br><tt>Does anybody know what is the highest supported OpenVMS versionnN that might be run on DEC 3000/M800 machine with the lastest installed firmware (i.e. v 5.8)?</tt>G <br><tt>I have already upgraded my system on such a machine from 6.2 top- 7.2-1h1 and not all seems to be correct.</tt>hM <br><tt>For example simple "$sh user" command from time to time gives effects-P like this (please set fixed width font on your browser to see it):</tt><tt></tt> <p><tt>$ sh user</tt>VF <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OpenVMS User Processes at&nbsp; 2-NOV-2000 12:26:48.17</tt> O <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Total number of users = 6,&nbsp; number of processes. = 13</tt><tt></tt>W <p><tt>&nbsp;Username&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Interactive&nbsp;u! Subprocess&nbsp;&nbsp; Batch</tt>t <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</tt>U <br><tt>&nbsp;DLUGOBORSKA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;e 2</tt>n <br><tt>&nbsp;KAPICA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</tt>n <br><tt>&nbsp;MICHAS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2</tt>d <br><tt>&nbsp;MIZERSKI&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</tt>i <br><tt>&nbsp;WALCZAK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- 1</tt><tt></tt>SL <p><tt>3 interactive processes and 1 subprocess seem to be without username.P There is similar situation if you perform "$sh user/full" command:</tt><tt></tt> <p><tt>$ sh user/full</tt>F <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OpenVMS User Processes at&nbsp; 2-NOV-2000 12:26:57.31</tt> O <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Total number of users = 6,&nbsp; number of processesy = 13</tt><tt></tt>R <p><tt>&nbsp;Username&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Process Name&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;) PID&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Terminal</tt>eV <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;@ DLUGOBORSKA_1&nbsp; 000000B7&nbsp; (subprocess of 000000B1)</tt>V <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;S NAUMIUK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 000000BC&nbsp; VTA20:&nbsp;&nbsp;  TNA22:</tt>y
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;) (Host: 10.10.0.131&nbsp; Port: 1085)</tt>uV <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;N PIENKOSZ&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 000000B2&nbsp; VTA17:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA19:</tt>E
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;. (Host: 10.10.0.83&nbsp;&nbsp; Port: 1040)</tt>V <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;X SELIGA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 000000B0&nbsp; VTA15:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA17:</tt>o
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4 (Host: 10.10.0.7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Port: 61492)</tt>L <br><tt>&nbsp;DLUGOBORSKA&nbsp; DLUGOBORSKA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 000000B1&nbsp; VTA16:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA18:</tt>
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;) (Host: 10.10.0.178&nbsp; Port: 1050)</tt>rQ <br><tt>&nbsp;DLUGOBORSKA&nbsp; _VTA28:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;r- 000000CC&nbsp; VTA28:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA30:</tt>N
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;) (Host: 10.10.0.178&nbsp; Port: 1218)</tt>Ro <br><tt>&nbsp;KAPICA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; KAPICA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;e- 000000CA&nbsp; VTA27:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA29:</tt>-
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;. (Host: 10.10.0.28&nbsp;&nbsp; Port: 1085)</tt>o <br><tt>&nbsp;MICHAS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MICHAS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;i- 000000C0&nbsp; VTA21:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA23:</tt>r
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4 (Host: 10.10.0.8&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Port: 62148)</tt>j <br><tt>&nbsp;MICHAS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _VTA24:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;' 000000C3&nbsp; VTA24:&nbsp; TNA26:</tt>c
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4 (Host: 10.10.0.8&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Port: 61396)</tt>[ <br><tt>&nbsp;MIZERSKI&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MIZERSKI&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;n- 000000C6&nbsp; VTA25:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA27:</tt>s
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;. (Host: 10.10.0.87&nbsp;&nbsp; Port: 2311)</tt>Q <br><tt>&nbsp;MIZERSKI&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MIZERSKI_1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;c, 000000CB&nbsp; (subprocess of 000000C6)</tt>` <br><tt>&nbsp;MIZERSKI&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _VTA26:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- 000000C7&nbsp; VTA26:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA28:</tt>-
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;. (Host: 10.10.0.87&nbsp;&nbsp; Port: 2312)</tt>e <br><tt>&nbsp;WALCZAK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _VTA23:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;t- 000000C2&nbsp; VTA23:&nbsp;&nbsp; TNA25:</tt> 
<br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;7 (Host: 10.10.0.80&nbsp;&nbsp; Port: 2304)</tt><tt></tt> I <p><tt>After thorough study I have found a way to "correct" this but onlybH for a short moment. Just seeing processes of "hidden" users corrects the situation:</tt><tt></tt> <p><tt>$ sh proc /id=b7</tt> <br><tt>$ sh proc /id=bc</tt>n <br><tt>$ sh proc /id=b0</tt>i& <br><tt>$ sh proc /id=b2</tt><tt></tt>' <p><tt>... and all is OK:</tt><tt></tt>d <p><tt>$ sh user</tt> F <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OpenVMS User Processes at&nbsp; 2-NOV-2000 12:31:08.71</tt>eO <br><tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Total number of users = 8,&nbsp; number of processesa = 13</tt><tt></tt>W <p><tt>&nbsp;Username&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Interactive&nbsp;y! Subprocess&nbsp;&nbsp; Batch</tt>lU <br><tt>&nbsp;DLUGOBORSKA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;08 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</tt>n <br><tt>&nbsp;KAPICA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</tt>n <br><tt>&nbsp;MICHAS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2</tt>d <br><tt>&nbsp;MIZERSKI&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</tt>i <br><tt>&nbsp;NAUMIUK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;m 1</tt>d <br><tt>&nbsp;PIENKOSZ&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</tt>n <br><tt>&nbsp;SELIGA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</tt>i <br><tt>&nbsp;WALCZAK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  1</tt> <br><tt></tt>&nbsp;<tt></tt>F <p><tt>Does anybody know what could it mean? Do I need to downgrade myG OpenVMS version? If so, what is the highest version I may install on my- DEC 3000/M800 machine?</tt> M <br><tt>Please send an answer also to private address i.e. michalg@tch.com.pl   or michalg@tch.pl.</tt><tt></tt> <p><tt>Regards,</tt> <br><tt>Michal Grotthuss</tt> ' <br><tt>TCH Systems, Warsaw</tt></html>5  ( --------------4C28BD92C9EC68EFEFEF7A81--   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 08:58:52 -0500X, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler), Subject: Re: Where's the Y2K compliance page+ Message-ID: <EdPw7KJdTBTa@eisner.decus.org>s  k In article <8ucdb1$80m$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  > \ > In article <0$mvbei+BgnI@eisner.decus.org>, koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:L > :  The Feds required year 2000 day 366 testing as a part of Y2K testing.  B > :  Why retire info related to something that hasn't happend yet? > K >   Last I looked, 29-Feb-2000 did already happen.  Of course, 2038 hasn't oJ >   happened yet, and that may well be as much (or more) "fun" as was Y2K. >   H I'm confident that the systems and applications I'm using can handle all@ of Y2K, but 31-DEC-2000 hasn't happened yet so the data is still	 relavent.s  H The feds required 1-JAN-2000 rollover testing (to and from), 29-FEB-2000D testing, and 31-DEC-2000 testing.  Software which handles one or two properly may fail at the third.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation-= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupcE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying8   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:54:06 +0100s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>-2 Subject: Re: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?) Message-ID: <3A0A743D.4ECC0FC7@gtech.com>a  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:L > I checked  at     http:// www.netcraft.com  and sounds like Northern Light > isD > using a Solaris server  as http server ?  Its not OpenVMS powered > anymore??? > > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph/?host=www.northernlight.com  7 AFAIK they have always been SUN Solaris web-servers andi VMS database backend.    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Nov 2000 09:58:19 -0500n9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)*' Subject: Re: [Fwd: FW: Java on Openvms]e+ Message-ID: <DDNjeZ9aI$ks@eisner.decus.org>   Z In article <3A03737C.59FBC62D@gce.com>, Glenn and Mary Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> writes: > E > Seems to me that in VMS, unless one is damn fool enough to run Java-@ > apps as system or installed with all privs, the OS is going to@ > prevent those apps from getting where they are not authorized.B > The trick is to run them as the appropriate account (i.e., oftenF > a "guest hostile alien" account), but once that is done, VMS is well: > able to protect against whatever misdeeds they attempt.   D Absent mandatory access controls (SEVMS), there is no ability in VMSE to prevent users on the system from making their own files accessible?E by "world".  Such files are accessible from any "guest hostile alien"h security profile.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:17:48 -0500i  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com/ Subject: Re: [VMS V7.2] BACKUP Behaviour change 4 Message-ID: <C2256992.00695333.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  O We init the tape just before the backup (without init) command, and use /REWINDmK or /NOREWIND as appropriate.  So I do not know if anything changed or when.1        * eplan@kapsch.net on 11/09/2000 01:35:39 PM  " Please respond to eplan@kapsch.net   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comZ cc: , Subject:  [VMS V7.2] BACKUP Behaviour change        J We just found out (the hard way of course) that something strange happened in VMS V7.2-1 backup::  G BACKUP/INIT used to init the output tape each time it mounts a new one.a This is expected and good.  F On V7.2 BACKUP/INIT inits the output tape each time BACKUP starts evenH when the tape is already mounted. This means that backing up a few disksG leads to a tape where only the backup saveset of the last disk is there D (because every new backup/init command is now a rewind/init/backup).    D One workaround is to remove /INIT (which forces us to init all tapesI by hand before the backup - but that is currently no problem, we now haveAC a TZ89 and no longer enough used space to require more than 1 tape)   F Another workaround would be to backup all disk with one BACKUP command, which leads OTOH to only one backup listing.    " What do you think, is this a bug ?? Or only a (undocumented but) intended BACKUP behaviour change ?8   --< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Nov 2000 20:57:04 +01001* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: [VMS V7.2] BACKUP Behaviour change ( Message-ID: <3a0b0190@news.kapsch.co.at>  W In article <C2256992.00695333.00@jklh21.valmet.com>, norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes: P >We init the tape just before the backup (without init) command, and use /REWINDL >or /NOREWIND as appropriate.  So I do not know if anything changed or when.  = You're a lucky man. But what if you reach the tape boundary ? C Do you abort BACKUP there to do a DCL INIT then or do you pray that + the next tape has no previous data on it ??    --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.628 ************************