1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 13 Nov 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 634       Contents: Re: Bug in PIPE: please check. Drivers for DE435 and DE500  Re: f$search improvement ?' FRONTPORT libarary updated - BUG FIXES.  RE: Gartner and OpenVMS  Re: Gartner and OpenVMS ' open VMS backdrop for motif or xwindows ? SAMBA 2.0.6 Available for OpenVMS VAX 7.1 and OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 & scsi quantum fireball1280 disk problem& scsi quantum fireball1280 disk problem. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed( Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform( RE: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections1 unable to unzip files to their original locations 5 Re: unable to unzip files to their original locations 5 Re: unable to unzip files to their original locations 5 Re: unable to unzip files to their original locations ) RE: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:01:49 +0100 (CET) : From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>' Subject: Re: Bug in PIPE: please check. J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0011122134140.27368-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>    Thanks for all confirmation. 4  Regardless of the fact, that (as in my first post): [...]  +HELP the syntax:  +  +$ PIPE (command &)  [...] ! + is correct and suposed to work.   @ ..the description of the behaviour is not too hard - it is like:  ! $ SPAWN SPAWN/NOWAIT do_something   8 (and if the 1. SPAWN completes the second is "split" and=  terminated while in-progess by the processes-in-job control)   = But (again: regardless, that here *are* the two subprocesses) :  a PIPE is expected to control the process dependency; the8  PIPE command under VMS sometime *does* the control (andD  closes unused processes and MPA etc.), also the UN*X implementation<  works as expected... and reagard to description of DCL PIPE*  command that is also expected behaviour !  = FYI: the reason, for what have check the syntax is three-part <  sequence (in process, parallel and at end also in-process).  *  SPAWN/NOWAIT is a temporary resolution...;  The second is a command, where prevents the () subprocess  
 from rundown: & $ pipe pid ; (pid & ; wait 0::1) ; pid 20A00545 20A00555 20A00545 $ <  Please don't inform me, that WAIT is the worst resolution,  that is example only -:) !   [...] 9 + The example will not work for me for any command, where < +uses user-mode program (at least haven't see any time work)  >  My additional comment: probably the image activation is long = enought, to always kill the sub-subprocess, but with DCL-only ) commands the command can "come in time" ! :  Hm... Here are opponents for DCL-as-programming-language 8 usage ??  -;) (no, no, *sometime* other language can be  better, agree -;)!)   ? +BTW: The expected bahaviour is usefull for "command shortcut", : + when allows parallel run of "in the process" and "out of9 + the process" command in one (the examples are minimised  + for check !).  [...]  + Any comments ??   (  Hm... Will COMPAQ say any word here -;)    Regards - Gotfryd --  E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:35:48 GMT  From: janicmx@aramco.com.sa $ Subject: Drivers for DE435 and DE500) Message-ID: <8uo244$6lu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   3 Where on the web can I find the OpenVMS drivers for , DEC's older NICs (DE435 , DE450 and DE500) ?  7 I tried going to www.compaq.com/support but no success.    Mike    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:16:11 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> # Subject: Re: f$search improvement ? - Message-ID: <3A0F16AB.7DB75BA5@earthlink.net>    "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote: >  > Bonjour  tous.  > J > What would you think of allowing qualifiers in the argument of f$search. >  > ie :* >     FILE = f$search("*.FOR/since=TODAY") > A > All DIRECTORY qualifiers could be usefull to use with f$search. = > There would be no impact on existing usage of the function.  > J > This would allow to avoid using temporary output files from DIR commandsF > or add more or less complicated tests with f$file_attribute calls to > check additionnal conditions.   F If you're running a suitable version of VMS, would the PIPE command be) useful here? You could feed the output of G DIRECTORY/NOHEAD/NOTRAIL/SINCE=TODAY (for example) into a stream that a D procedure could read, thus eliminating the need for temporary files.  B Otherwise, yes - you'd need to code your own tests using F$FILE().   H > As a second point, is there any reason why f$search does not return ""C > at the second call when the argument does not contain wildcards ?   ; Not sure other than that it behaves essentially the same as  LIB$FIND_FILE (I think).   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:07:35 -0600 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> 0 Subject: FRONTPORT libarary updated - BUG FIXES.7 Message-ID: <175b01c04d05$bbecd6d0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>   E      The preliminary VAX testing of SAMBA 2.0.6 uncovered two bugs in       the FRONTPORT library.   K      As such, all zip archives have been updated to reflect the new builds.   B      see http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/frontport/ for the kits  J      The FRONTPORT library had a bug where when an fopen() call failed, it-      would not return the proper errno value.   C      The FRONTPORT library had a bug where a buffer of 33 bytes was D      allocated for receiving the user's default device name, but theI      SYS$GETUAI call was told that 64 bytes were available.  It worked on 0      OpenVMS ALPHA 7.2, but not OpenVMS VAX 7.1.  H      The FRONTPORT library was dependent on privilege mask symbols beingB      present on ALPHA that where not present prior to OpenVMS 7.2.  @      FRONTPORT will mostly compile clean using DEC C 6.0.  DEC C,      6.2 produces informational diagnostics.  H      Bug reports are welcome, and I would encourage them to be posted onL      comp.os.vms .  At this time I can not say when and if I will be able to      respond to them.         Good luck,   
      -John     wb8tyw@qsl.network&     malmberg@eisner.decus.organization   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:06:52 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>   Subject: RE: Gartner and OpenVMSN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D8052849C1@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,   E >>> Gartner place a great deal of emphasis on something they call ISV ) enthusiasm and available applications.<<<    Yep, they sure do.    J However, Customers have to take recommendations from analysts like GartnerA (and other analysts) and apply them to their specific situation.    K As you know, ISV enthusiasm and available applications are only a couple of L the many decision criteria that Customers need to consider. A vendor popularJ today may not be as popular in a year or two. That is expected and normal.  K Does that mean Customers should make future decisions based on which vendor  is more popular today?  E If these were the only two decision criteria today, and Customers had L listened to Gartner exclusively, there would not be any Customers running onK IBM mainframes and OpenVMS would not be experiencing the business growth it   is currently experiencing today.   :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]   Sent: November 10, 2000 12:14 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com   Subject: Re: Gartner and OpenVMS     bawilhelm@my-deja.com wrote: > E > We just got off the phone last week with Gartner and they are still E > down on VMS.  This is really making it difficult for me to convince A > management that we need to stay with VMS for our new PeopleSoft E > install.  It seems to me that Compaq needs to find out exactly what I > Gartner is looking for and do their best to accommodate them.  It seems I > that would go a long way towards improving the impression of VMS in the D > marketplace.  Whether you think Gartner is right or not is not theG > issue.  The issue is that their recommendations have an impact on the ) > business decisions made.  Any thoughts?  >   > Gartner place a great deal of emphasis on something they call * ISV enthusiasm and available applications.  < What they mean by ISV enthusiasm is the commitment of ISV's ! to put new apps onto a platform.    ? They prefer platforms that have both and are much less keen on  4 platforms who have one and not the other or neither.  7 Compaq are almost certainly aware of this but it is not 9 something that Compaq can influence Gartner on directly,  7 they have to get the ISV's to port to OpenVMS and also  5 to be committed to the platform which are not always  5 the same things. If they do this then it will filter  6 through to Gartner but it is a vicious circle because $ the ISV's also read Gartner reports.  5 Getting the ISV's to modify their behaviour requires   a number of things:    Cash from Compaq% An available market for their product  Joint marketing  etc    > Brent Wilhelm  > System Admin/DBA > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    --   Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:09:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: Gartner and OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3A0F3F27.9818C5E7@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:L > However, Customers have to take recommendations from analysts like GartnerB > (and other analysts) and apply them to their specific situation.  N Companies don't subscribe to Gartner to get recommendations, they subscribe to) Gartner as a way to back their decisions.   M IP executives can't back their own decisions, they hire Gartner and expensive M consultants to provide the support for their decisions. If an IT exec goes to J the president with a proposal and states that Gartner says it is the right? decision, the president has a much greater chance of approving.   H Now, consider the days when VMS's decline started. It is a hell of a lotM easier to go to your president and say that you have to dump VMS machines and J go IBM ASAP and that this is backed by Gartner. Gartner may have failed inM predicting VMS's death, but they succeeded in their prediction that VMS would  be irrelevant.  N If IBM feeds Gartner well, Gartner will say anything to thank IBM for the goodL meals. And if IBM feeds a customer well, the customer will do as IBM wishes.W And put the two together and you have a mighty powerful marketing/brainwashing machine.   L I think it is very important for Compaq to start to wine and dine Gartner to% get positive recommendatiosn for VMS.     F Ask yourself this: VMS is as relevant as Tandem (and perhaps even moreL relevant) to the industry.  Has Gartner predicted the death of Tandem ? No ?M Why ? Simple: When an IT executive has a Tandem machine in his shop, he wants ? Gartner to continue to justify his decision to get Tandem gear.   K So, if banks represent a significant revenu stream to Gartner, then Gartner L will ensure that its reports help the bankers that feed Gartner by producingJ reports that confirm that the bankers's IT decisions are right. Hence, you1 don't see Gartner blasting Tandem left and right.     N IT execs don't bother backing their decisions with facts and vision, they back them with a Gartner report.   M And Compaq must take steps to provide VMS loyalists with some ammunition that 1 will help them justify VMS decisions in IT shops.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:53:39 +0200 4 From: "Constandinos Stavrou" <sdinos@cytanet.com.cy>0 Subject: open VMS backdrop for motif or xwindows5 Message-ID: <8umefo$1ub$1@aristotelis.cytanet.com.cy>   K Can anybody cprovide any interesting backdrops for modif or xwidnows?  I am / stuck with the ones that came with openVMS 6.2.   	 Thank you    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:02:16 -0600 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> H Subject: SAMBA 2.0.6 Available for OpenVMS VAX 7.1 and OpenVMS Alpha 7.27 Message-ID: <174e01c04d04$ff5e6c40$020a0a0a@xile.realm>   ?      SAMBA 2.0.6 is now available for testing on VAX and ALPHA.   H      The preliminary VAX testing uncovered a bug in the UNIX samba build-      and a two bugs in the FRONTPORT library.   L       As such, all zip archives have been updated to reflect the new builds.  :       see http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/frontport/ andB             http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/samba/ for the kits.  7       I do not have much testing done on the VAX build.   K      Occasionally the NMBD program stops responding and attempts to kill it J      cause it to go into an RWMBX state.  If you observe this as a chronicH      problem, then try using the NMBD program from an earlier version of      SAMBA VMS.   J      The bug found in the SAMBA code was a case where when NMBD checked toL      see if there were more interfaces and the TCP/IP program in use did notF      support that call, it then attempted to do a memcmp of a negativeJ      number of bytes.  This resulted in an Access Violation on OpenVMS-VAXE      and TCP/IP 4.2.  This has now been fixed in the SAMBA UNIX code.   I      It may also have only shown up because of other bugs that have since  beenA      fixed with the VAX transfer vectors and linker option files.   J      The FRONTPORT library had a bug where when an fopen() call failed, it-      would not return the proper errno value.   C      The FRONTPORT library had a bug where a buffer of 33 bytes was D      allocated for receiving the user's default device name, but theI      SYS$GETUAI call was told that 64 bytes were available.  It worked on 0      OpenVMS ALPHA 7.2, but not OpenVMS VAX 7.1.  H      The FRONTPORT library was dependent on privilege mask symbols beingB      present on ALPHA that where not present prior to OpenVMS 7.2.  J      SAMBA and FRONTPORT will mostly compile clean using DEC C 6.0.  DEC C,      6.2 produces informational diagnostics.  H      Bug reports are welcome, and I would encourage them to be posted onI      comp.os.vms or samba-vms@samba.org.  At this time I can not say when .      and if I will be able to respond to them.        Good luck,   
      -John     wb8tyw@qsl.network&     malmberg@eisner.decus.organization   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:43:14 +0100  From: manser@vmva02.progis.de / Subject: scsi quantum fireball1280 disk problem - Message-ID: <00111300431419@vmva02.progis.de>   	 Hi folks,   l i have installed a 1.2 GB scsi disk on my vax station 4000-60 with vms 6.2 and notice the following problems  ) $ mount/system/noassist $1$dka300: backup - MARS> mount/system/noassist $1$dka300: backup A %MOUNT-W-IDXMAPERR, I/O error on index file bitmap; volume locked E -SYSTEM-F-DEVOFFLINE, device is not in configuration or not available > %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline > %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline > %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline > %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offliner> %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline 7 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, BACKUP mounted on _$1$DKA300: (EARTH)  MARS> sh dev d  P Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntP  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count CntP $1$DKA0:       (EARTH)  Mounted              0  PROGIS0         748500     5   4P $1$DKA100:     (EARTH)  Mounted              0  VAXVMS2H4055    931578     4   4P $1$DKA300:     (EARTH)  Mounted              0  BACKUP               0     1   1. $1$DKA400:     (EARTH)  Online               0P $1$DKA500:     (EARTH)  Mounted              0  EARTH_1025    15897550     1   4P $2$DKA300:     (VENUS)  Mounted              0  VENUS_1026       72462     1   4P $4$DKA0:        (MARS)  Mounted              0  MARS_1028        29688     1   4P $4$DKA100:      (MARS)  Mounted              0  ALPHASYSBACK   1549053     1   4. $4$DKA400:      (MARS)  Online wrtlck        0. $4$DVA0:        (MARS)  Online               0P $5$DKA0:      (JUPITR)  Mounted              0  ALPHASYS       2102788   289   4P $5$DKA400:    (JUPITR)  Mounted              0  JUPITR_1029     313612     1   4. $5$DKA500:    (JUPITR)  Online               0 MARS> sh dev /full $1$DKA300:e  O Disk $1$DKA300: (EARTH), device type QUANTUM FIREBALL1280S, is online, mounted,dK     file-oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging isb     enabled.  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                246AO     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                         [1,4]sO     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WsO     Reference count                1    Default buffer size                 512nO     Total blocks             2503872    Sectors per track                   139 O     Total cylinders             4504    Tracks per cylinder                   4 P     Host name                "EARTH"    Host type, avail VAXstation 4000-60, yes$     Allocation class               1  O     Volume label            "BACKUP"    Relative volume number                0tO     Cluster size                   3    Transaction count                     1sO     Free blocks                    0    Maximum files allowed            3129840O     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                           1 O     Mount status              System    Cache name          "_$5$DKA0:XQPCACHE" O     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache        0iO     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache      0 O     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache        774HO     Volume owner UIC        [MANSER]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD*  P   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, allocation inhibited because ofK       error on bitmap, file high-water marking, write-back caching enabled.    the disk marks 0 blocks free   MARS> sd $1$DKA300:<000000>e	 MARS> diri   Directory $1$DKA300:<000000>  H 000000.DIR;1        BACKUP.SYS;1        BADBLK.SYS;1        BADLOG.SYS;1H BITMAP.SYS;1        CONTIN.SYS;1        CORIMG.SYS;1        INDEXF.SYS;1  SECURITY.SYS;1      VOLSET.SYS;1   Total of 10 files. MARS> create/dir <.test> /log	7 %CREATE-E-DIRNOTCRE, <.TEST> directory file not createdp# -SYSTEM-F-WRITLCK, write lock error= MARS> mc sysman= SYSMAN> set env/cluster=+ %SYSMAN-I-ENV, current command environment: $         Clusterwide on local cluster<         Username MANSER       will be used on nonlocal nodes   SYSMAN> do show error@1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node EARTH , Device                           Error Count* $1$DKA300: (EARTH)                       22 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node JUPITR( %SHOW-S-NOERRORS, no device errors found1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node VENUSa( %SHOW-S-NOERRORS, no device errors found0 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node MARS( %SHOW-S-NOERRORS, no device errors found  " here is an extract of the errorlog    O  ******************************* ENTRY    1768. *******************************yO  ERROR SEQUENCE 781.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003IO  DATE/TIME 12-NOV-2000 02:12:31.10                            SYS_TYPE 04140002l  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:36:10 K  SCS NODE: EARTH                                               VAX/VMS V6.2w  8  DEVICE ERROR  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4  +  GENERIC DK SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _EARTH$DKA300:l          HW REVISION     43303336i9                                        HW REVISION = 630Co        ERROR TYPE            03 C                                        COMMAND TRANSMISSION FAILURES        SCSI ID               03t3                                        SCSI ID = 3.t        SCSI LUN              00t4                                        SCSI LUN = 0.        SCSI SUBLUN           00n7                                        SCSI SUBLUN = 0.         PORT STATUS     0000022Ce    H                                        %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, DEVICE TIMEOUT        SCSI CMD        671B1308                             0001t+                                        READ/        SCSI STATUS           FF 9                                        NO STATUS RECEIVEDo        UCB$B_ERTCNT          04d;                                        4. RETRIES REMAINING.        UCB$B_ERTMAX          00g;                                        0. RETRIES ALLOWABLEt        ORB$L_OWNER     00010004 :                                        OWNER UIC [001,004]        UCB$L_CHAR      1C4540080;                                        DIRECTORY STRUCTURED 4                                        FILE ORIENTED/                                        SHARABLEa0                                        AVAILABLE4                                        ERROR LOGGING7                                        CAPABLE OF INPUTt8                                        CAPABLE OF OUTPUT4                                        RANDOM ACCESS        UCB$W_STS           0000e        UCB$L_OPCNT     00000158 ;                                        344. QIO'S THIS UNITO        UCB$W_ERRCNT        0001e:                                        1. ERRORS THIS UNIT        IRP$W_BCNT          0200 A                                        TRANSFER SIZE 512. BYTE(S)o        IRP$W_BOFF          0050o;                                        80. BYTE PAGE OFFSETt        IRP$L_PID       8175DD7B 6                                        REQUESTOR "PID"        IRP$Q_IOSB      00000001 C                        000A0000        IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERREDm <FF>O  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 12-NOV-2000 02:18:21pO                                                                       PAGE   3.l  O  ******************************* ENTRY    1769. *******************************oO  ERROR SEQUENCE 782.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003aO  DATE/TIME 12-NOV-2000 02:12:33.52                            SYS_TYPE 04140002   SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:36:12SK  SCS NODE: EARTH                                               VAX/VMS V6.2e    8  DEVICE ERROR  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4  +  GENERIC DK SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _EARTH$DKA300:l          HW REVISION     43303336 9                                        HW REVISION = 630Cn        ERROR TYPE            05dC                                        EXTENDED SENSE DATA RECEIVEDy        SCSI ID               03a3                                        SCSI ID = 3.s        SCSI LUN              00t4                                        SCSI LUN = 0.        SCSI SUBLUN           00e7                                        SCSI SUBLUN = 0.f        PORT STATUS     00000001nJ                                        %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, NORMAL SUCCESSFUL2                                         COMPLETION        SCSI CMD        00000000u                            0000s4                                        TEST UNIT RDY        SCSI STATUS           02n  6                                        CHECK CONDITION    EXTENDED SENSE DATA          EXTENDED SENSE  000500703                        0A000000                         00000000                         0000009C                             0000s6                                        ILLEGAL REQUEST9                                        UNKNOWN ERROR TYPE         UCB$B_ERTCNT          00 ;                                        0. RETRIES REMAINING         UCB$B_ERTMAX          00i;                                        0. RETRIES ALLOWABLEt        ORB$L_OWNER     00010004r:                                        OWNER UIC [001,004]        UCB$L_CHAR      1C454008 ;                                        DIRECTORY STRUCTUREDm4                                        FILE ORIENTED/                                        SHARABLE.0                                        AVAILABLE4                                        ERROR LOGGING7                                        CAPABLE OF INPUT 8                                        CAPABLE OF OUTPUT4                                        RANDOM ACCESS        UCB$W_STS           4142 9                                        INTERRUPT EXPECTED 0                                        TIMED OUT <FF>O  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 12-NOV-2000 02:18:21eO                                                                       PAGE   4.m  +                                        BUSYhG                                        "MOUNT VERIFICATION" IN-PROGRESSe        UCB$L_OPCNT     00000159 ;                                        345. QIO'S THIS UNITg        UCB$W_ERRCNT        0002c:                                        2. ERRORS THIS UNIT        IRP$W_BCNT          0000a?                                        TRANSFER SIZE 0. BYTE(S)a        IRP$W_BOFF          0000 <                                        TRANSFER PAGE ALIGNED        IRP$L_PID       8175DD7Bw  6                                        REQUESTOR "PID"        IRP$Q_IOSB      48504C41-G                        53595341        IOSB, 18512. BYTE(S) TRANSFERREDmO  ******************************* ENTRY    1770. *******************************sO  ERROR SEQUENCE 783.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003oO  DATE/TIME 12-NOV-2000 02:12:34.71                            SYS_TYPE 04140002t  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:36:13iK  SCS NODE: EARTH                                               VAX/VMS V6.2t  8  MOUNT VOLUME  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4  1        UNIT _EARTH$DKA300:, VOLUME LABEL "BACKUP"y  9        378. QIO OPERATIONS THIS UNIT, 2. ERRORS THIS UNIToO  ******************************* ENTRY    1771. ******************************* O  ERROR SEQUENCE 784.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003tO  DATE/TIME 12-NOV-2000 02:16:36.91                            SYS_TYPE 04140002   SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:40:15tK  SCS NODE: EARTH                                               VAX/VMS V6.2   ;  DISMOUNT VOLUME  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4   1        UNIT _EARTH$DKA300:, VOLUME LABEL "BACKUP"r  9        406. QIO OPERATIONS THIS UNIT, 2. ERRORS THIS UNITn<        28. QIO OPERATIONS THIS VOLUME, 0. ERRORS THIS VOLUME <FF>O  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 12-NOV-2000 02:18:21hO                                                                       PAGE   5.   Z ========================================================================================== what is going on ? thanks for any help or advice.   nazim Manser  * email:	nmanser@progis.de	(MIME compatible) 	manser@decus.de		text onlyd  . email work: psi%datexp.026245690030299::manser  
 from germany e  *             psi%datexp.45690030299::manser   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:42:18 -0500b2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>/ Subject: scsi quantum fireball1280 disk probleml7 Message-ID: <200011130042_MC2-BA93-D888@compuserve.com>t  E         Quantum Fireball disks are known to have problems with Tagged G Command Queuing.  They do not implement it correctly and will corrupt anG disk.  I don't know if ALL Quantum Fireballs exhibit this problem but Ie' would not use one on any of my systems.r    8 Message text written by INTERNET:manser@vmva02.progis.de
 >Hi folks,  J i have installed a 1.2 GB scsi disk on my vax station 4000-60 with vms 6.= 20! and notice the following problemsi  ) $ mount/system/noassist $1$dka300: backup:- MARS> mount/system/noassist $1$dka300: backupgA %MOUNT-W-IDXMAPERR, I/O error on index file bitmap; volume lockedoE -SYSTEM-F-DEVOFFLINE, device is not in configuration or not availableh> %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline1> %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offlinee> %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline > %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offlineg> %MOUNT-W-BITMAPERR, I/O error on storage bitmap; volume locked# -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offlines7 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, BACKUP mounted on _$1$DKA300: (EARTH)w MARS> sh dev d  G Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free =e  	 Trans MntrF  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count CntXJ $1$DKA0:       (EARTH)  Mounted              0  PROGIS0         748500   =  =   5   4 J $1$DKA100:     (EARTH)  Mounted              0  VAXVMS2H4055    931578   =  =   4   4 J $1$DKA300:     (EARTH)  Mounted              0  BACKUP               0   =  =   1   1b. $1$DKA400:     (EARTH)  Online               0J $1$DKA500:     (EARTH)  Mounted              0  EARTH_1025    15897550   =  =   1   4dJ $2$DKA300:     (VENUS)  Mounted              0  VENUS_1026       72462   =  =   1   4 J $4$DKA0:        (MARS)  Mounted              0  MARS_1028        29688   =  =   1   4sJ $4$DKA100:      (MARS)  Mounted              0  ALPHASYSBACK   1549053   =  =   1   4s. $4$DKA400:      (MARS)  Online wrtlck        0. $4$DVA0:        (MARS)  Online               0I $5$DKA0:      (JUPITR)  Mounted              0  ALPHASYS       2102788  =l   289   4tJ $5$DKA400:    (JUPITR)  Mounted              0  JUPITR_1029     313612   =  =   1   4w. $5$DKA500:    (JUPITR)  Online               0 MARS> sh dev /full $1$DKA300:   F Disk $1$DKA300: (EARTH), device type QUANTUM FIREBALL1280S, is online, mounted,J     file-oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging = is     enabled.  J     Error count                    0    Operations completed             =   =p   246pJ     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                        =   [1,4]C<     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot           =   S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WlJ     Reference count                1    Default buffer size              =   =a   512.J     Total blocks             2503872    Sectors per track                =   =.   139 J     Total cylinders             4504    Tracks per cylinder              =   =a     4nC     Host name                "EARTH"    Host type, avail VAXstation  4000-60, yes$     Allocation class               1  J     Volume label            "BACKUP"    Relative volume number           =   =      0fJ     Cluster size                   3    Transaction count                =   =6     1nI     Free blocks                    0    Maximum files allowed           =    312984J     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                      =   =      1 <     Mount status              System    Cache name         =   "_$5$DKA0:XQPCACHE" J     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache   =   =L     0mJ     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache =   =S     0EJ     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache     =   =    774 4     Volume owner UIC        [MANSER]    Vol Prot   =   S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD;  E   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, allocation inhibited 
 because ofJ       error on bitmap, file high-water marking, write-back caching enable= d.   the disk marks 0 blocks free   MARS> sd $1$DKA300:<000000> 	 MARS> dir    Directory $1$DKA300:<000000>  H 000000.DIR;1        BACKUP.SYS;1        BADBLK.SYS;1        BADLOG.SYS;1H BITMAP.SYS;1        CONTIN.SYS;1        CORIMG.SYS;1        INDEXF.SYS;1  SECURITY.SYS;1      VOLSET.SYS;1   Total of 10 files. MARS> create/dir <.test> /log 7 %CREATE-E-DIRNOTCRE, <.TEST> directory file not created:# -SYSTEM-F-WRITLCK, write lock error  MARS> mc sysman  SYSMAN> set env/cluster:+ %SYSMAN-I-ENV, current command environment:0$         Clusterwide on local cluster<         Username MANSER       will be used on nonlocal nodes   SYSMAN> do show errorU1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node EARTH), Device                           Error Count* $1$DKA300: (EARTH)                       22 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node JUPITR( %SHOW-S-NOERRORS, no device errors found1 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node VENUS0( %SHOW-S-NOERRORS, no device errors found0 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node MARS( %SHOW-S-NOERRORS, no device errors found  " here is an extract of the errorlog    /  ******************************* ENTRY    1768.v *******************************3F  ERROR SEQUENCE 781.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003F  DATE/TIME 12-NOV-2000 02:12:31.10                            SYS_TYPE 04140002  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:36:10 J  SCS NODE: EARTH                                               VAX/VMS V6= .2  8  DEVICE ERROR  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4  +  GENERIC DK SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _EARTH$DKA300:           HW REVISION     43303336c;                                        HW REVISION =3D 630C         ERROR TYPE            03 C                                        COMMAND TRANSMISSION FAILUREi        SCSI ID               03p5                                        SCSI ID =3D 3.         SCSI LUN              00l6                                        SCSI LUN =3D 0.        SCSI SUBLUN           00 9                                        SCSI SUBLUN =3D 0.         PORT STATUS     0000022C3    H                                        %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, DEVICE TIMEOUT        SCSI CMD        671B1308                             0001t+                                        READ         SCSI STATUS           FFs9                                        NO STATUS RECEIVEDC        UCB$B_ERTCNT          04 ;                                        4. RETRIES REMAININGe        UCB$B_ERTMAX          00l;                                        0. RETRIES ALLOWABLE         ORB$L_OWNER     00010004 :                                        OWNER UIC [001,004]        UCB$L_CHAR      1C454008:;                                        DIRECTORY STRUCTUREDo4                                        FILE ORIENTED/                                        SHARABLEe0                                        AVAILABLE4                                        ERROR LOGGING7                                        CAPABLE OF INPUTA8                                        CAPABLE OF OUTPUT4                                        RANDOM ACCESS        UCB$W_STS           0000a        UCB$L_OPCNT     00000158<;                                        344. QIO'S THIS UNIT         UCB$W_ERRCNT        0001e:                                        1. ERRORS THIS UNIT        IRP$W_BCNT          0200rA                                        TRANSFER SIZE 512. BYTE(S)N        IRP$W_BOFF          0050l;                                        80. BYTE PAGE OFFSETx        IRP$L_PID       8175DD7B 6                                        REQUESTOR "PID"        IRP$Q_IOSB      00000001-C                        000A0000        IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERRED  <FF>F  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 12-NOV-2000 02:18:21J                                                                       PAG= E =R    3.o  /  ******************************* ENTRY    1769.r ********************************F  ERROR SEQUENCE 782.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003F  DATE/TIME 12-NOV-2000 02:12:33.52                            SYS_TYPE 04140002  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:36:12 J  SCS NODE: EARTH                                               VAX/VMS V6= .2    8  DEVICE ERROR  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4  +  GENERIC DK SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _EARTH$DKA300:E          HW REVISION     43303336N;                                        HW REVISION =3D 630C         ERROR TYPE            05HC                                        EXTENDED SENSE DATA RECEIVED         SCSI ID               03A5                                        SCSI ID =3D 3.         SCSI LUN              00 6                                        SCSI LUN =3D 0.        SCSI SUBLUN           00 9                                        SCSI SUBLUN =3D 0.         PORT STATUS     00000001 J                                        %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, NORMAL SUCCESSFU= L 2                                         COMPLETION        SCSI CMD        00000000                             0000 4                                        TEST UNIT RDY        SCSI STATUS           02   6                                        CHECK CONDITION    EXTENDED SENSE DATA          EXTENDED SENSE  00050070                         0A000000B                        00000000                         0000009CE                            0000N6                                        ILLEGAL REQUEST9                                        UNKNOWN ERROR TYPE         UCB$B_ERTCNT          00 ;                                        0. RETRIES REMAINING         UCB$B_ERTMAX          00 ;                                        0. RETRIES ALLOWABLE         ORB$L_OWNER     00010004 :                                        OWNER UIC [001,004]        UCB$L_CHAR      1C454008U;                                        DIRECTORY STRUCTURED 4                                        FILE ORIENTED/                                        SHARABLEC0                                        AVAILABLE4                                        ERROR LOGGING7                                        CAPABLE OF INPUTS8                                        CAPABLE OF OUTPUT4                                        RANDOM ACCESS        UCB$W_STS           4142o9                                        INTERRUPT EXPECTEDE0                                        TIMED OUT <FF>F  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 12-NOV-2000 02:18:21J                                                                       PAG= E =     4.Y  +                                        BUSY0G                                        "MOUNT VERIFICATION" IN-PROGRESS         UCB$L_OPCNT     00000159*;                                        345. QIO'S THIS UNIT*        UCB$W_ERRCNT        0002 :                                        2. ERRORS THIS UNIT        IRP$W_BCNT          0000 ?                                        TRANSFER SIZE 0. BYTE(S)0        IRP$W_BOFF          0000 <                                        TRANSFER PAGE ALIGNED        IRP$L_PID       8175DD7BC  6                                        REQUESTOR "PID"        IRP$Q_IOSB      48504C41 G                        53595341        IOSB, 18512. BYTE(S) TRANSFERRED /  ******************************* ENTRY    1770.  *******************************SF  ERROR SEQUENCE 783.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003F  DATE/TIME 12-NOV-2000 02:12:34.71                            SYS_TYPE 04140002  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:36:13 J  SCS NODE: EARTH                                               VAX/VMS V6= .2  8  MOUNT VOLUME  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4  1        UNIT _EARTH$DKA300:, VOLUME LABEL "BACKUP"F  9        378. QIO OPERATIONS THIS UNIT, 2. ERRORS THIS UNIT /  ******************************* ENTRY    1771.  ******************************* F  ERROR SEQUENCE 784.                             LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003F  DATE/TIME 12-NOV-2000 02:16:36.91                            SYS_TYPE 04140002  SYSTEM UPTIME: 0 DAYS 00:40:15 J  SCS NODE: EARTH                                               VAX/VMS V6= .2  ;  DISMOUNT VOLUME  KA46  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4   1        UNIT _EARTH$DKA300:, VOLUME LABEL "BACKUP"   9        406. QIO OPERATIONS THIS UNIT, 2. ERRORS THIS UNIT <        28. QIO OPERATIONS THIS VOLUME, 0. ERRORS THIS VOLUME <FF>F  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 12-NOV-2000 02:18:21J                                                                       PAG= E =     5.   L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  - =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  what is going on ? thanks for any help or advice.   nazim Manser  1 email:  nmanser@progis.de       (MIME compatible) )         manser@decus.de         text only   . email work: psi%datexp.026245690030299::manser   from germany =    *             psi%datexp.45690030299::manser <I   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2000 14:48:47 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) 7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed * Message-ID: <8ums6v$r0d$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <3A0C0865.497FBF17@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  >>  [ >> In article <vXePVDXmGW4S@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  >> >{...snip...}' >> >       Come spin with us Andrew!!!!  >> >& >> >                               Rob >> > >> 0M >> Rob, really!  Andrew's contribution here is to tout Sun and FUD Compaq andIL >> VMS technologies.  You continue to invite him.  I know that you and KerryK >> and several others are trying to dispell his FUD and show what a FUDster K >> he is himself but the truth is that I believe we all know what a FUDster * >> he is.  Can we try to stop baiting him? >> E > F >How ironic, you see it was Rob's origional FUDDING of Sun over eBays D >outage that really drew me into this group. What I found was really >interestingC >a whole group of people where someone could publish either totally 
 >unfoundedG >and as it turned out totally untrue allegations about another vendors  D >systems and no one would even question the veracity of the posting. >F  D Talk about untruths!  Fortunately, deja still goes way back past theD 18 months necessary to show that you were quite active in this group> long before the subject of eBay's outages were discussed here.  H In fact, I don't think Rob has the least interest in Sun or eBay except # to discredit one Andrew Harrison.  I  @ We've become quite used to you lying here, but it is fascinating= to me how you'd lie about things that are so easily verified.    > [snip] >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2000 17:19:03 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed + Message-ID: <VUQhcId6Qk$q@eisner.decus.org>R  ] In article <3A0C0865.497FBF17@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >> =[ >> In article <vXePVDXmGW4S@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  >> >{...snip...}' >> >       Come spin with us Andrew!!!!i >> >& >> >                               Rob >> > >> 	M >> Rob, really!  Andrew's contribution here is to tout Sun and FUD Compaq and L >> VMS technologies.  You continue to invite him.  I know that you and KerryK >> and several others are trying to dispell his FUD and show what a FUDsterNK >> he is himself but the truth is that I believe we all know what a FUDsterD* >> he is.  Can we try to stop baiting him? >>   >    > F > Just occasionally someone pops out of the woodwork and says no thats- > B****H**T but only very very occasionally. w >  > No wonder I stayed.n > G > You have mostly Rob to blame for this so you are posting to the rightn	 > person.  > D > Incedentally despite labeling me as a FUDSTER and a spin merchant ? > the fact is that my objections to mainly Robs hype on Galaxy,tK > Spiralog, ISV interest in OpenVMS, the performance of the WildFire boxes y > etc have been correct. >   = 	No ... I made a few mistakes.  I bought into Spiralog and itA? 	is/was great technology.  I stand fast on the other things youEF 	sling at me.  I am ahead of the curve on Wildfire and Son-of-WildfireC 	but faster 21264 and 21364 are a long time coming (and yes, others D 	aren't standing still but Compaq is doing VERY well in the high-end> 	as they and IBM are suddently the platform of choice in HPC).  = 	But yes, you are a FUDSTER and a spin merchant as you rarelyO= 	if ever address the contents of a post and typically lie lowe< 	until the contents have shifted ever so slightly to warrantH 	a total change of subject.  You sure you didn't co-invent the Internet?  ? 	By the way, regarding the subject line, how about this anyhow:$    4 http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB973636942369499535.html   H At online auctioneer eBay Inc., a major Sun customer, the memory problemM initially resulted in one to two big-system crashes every month, says Maynard:M Webb, president of eBay Technologies. The memory problem wasn't behind eBay's L most serious outage, a 22-hour failure in 1999, but has caused other serviceL outages, Mr. Webb says, although he adds that with Sun's fixes in place eBay- can now go "months" without seeing a problem.)     E 	Do something and shock us.  Admit that you have attempted to totallyT? 	mislead us for the past year on this issue.  Perhaps you thinknD 	it will simply go away or will not longer make headlines?  In light> 	of the above, how do those postings in December 1999 now make= 	you look?  No different.  "We" essentially knew all along it0B 	wasn't a matter of datacenter temperature or environmentals.  But< 	you wouldn't give it up.  Now you are forced to give up the= 	datacenter spin but it is all out there for us to see and toS> 	trot out as we wish.  But you are oh so sure of yourself when> 	you write some things and the DANGER is kids that are lurkingA 	wouldn't have a clue that what you pen is often VERY misleading.K  A   	Your reputation took a hit.  Reputation?  Well.... never mind.    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 03:44:44 GMTr From: suninthefun@my-deja.com 7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailedt) Message-ID: <8uno3b$vdl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r   Andrew,   F Will you just admit that the real problem is Sun does not have system-@ wide ECC memory and that is why Sun customers are having so many5 failures?  256MB of non-ECC L2 cache is unacceptable.               * In article <3A0C0865.497FBF17@uk.sun.com>,3   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > > / > > In article <vXePVDXmGW4S@eisner.decus.org>, , young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > > >{...snip...}a( > > >       Come spin with us Andrew!!!! > > >s' > > >                               Rob  > > >B > >"C > > Rob, really!  Andrew's contribution here is to tout Sun and FUDe
 Compaq andG > > VMS technologies.  You continue to invite him.  I know that you ando Kerry D > > and several others are trying to dispell his FUD and show what a FUDsteraD > > he is himself but the truth is that I believe we all know what a FUDster + > > he is.  Can we try to stop baiting him?e > >  >=F > How ironic, you see it was Rob's origional FUDDING of Sun over eBaysE > outage that really drew me into this group. What I found was really 
 > interestingcD > a whole group of people where someone could publish either totally > unfounded G > and as it turned out totally untrue allegations about another vendors E > systems and no one would even question the veracity of the posting.u >S> > A group where incorrect technical comparisons of one vendors > capabiliites@ > vs generally OpenVMS would elicit nothing more than supporting comments$ > from a choir of backing vocalists. >$A > A group where someone from Compaq can say the world is flat and0? > someone else will cheer and provide a URL to the "prove" thatS > it is. >SF > Just occasionally someone pops out of the woodwork and says no thats, > B****H**T but only very very occasionally. >  > No wonder I stayed.> >oG > You have mostly Rob to blame for this so you are posting to the rightR	 > person.e >cC > Incedentally despite labeling me as a FUDSTER and a spin merchantc? > the fact is that my objections to mainly Robs hype on Galaxy,rD > Spiralog, ISV interest in OpenVMS, the performance of the WildFire boxess > etc have been correct. > 	 > Regardsc > Andrew Harrison) > Enterprise IT Architect  >     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.S   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2000 14:29:39 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)x1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform * Message-ID: <8umr33$pr6$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <3A0BE816.86BBF6FC@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >> *- >> In article <3A082785.BAC246E0@uk.sun.com>,*6 >>   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >> > >> > [snip]  >> >; >> > Sure so you are happy to beat Sun over the head with a ; >> > Gartner report but whine when someone uses one to beat 4 >> > Compaq over the head. What was it you called it >> > an anecdote.V >> > >> D= >> I'm not whining.  I think the Gartner report is a cause ofRC >> great concern for Compaq.  I was just pointing out the hypocrisy3B >> of a Sun employee using a Gartner Report as backup material forA >> an accusation of quality problems.  You know, glass houses and  >> all that? >> I >O@ >Why, Sun takes the Gartner report seriously because the ecache B >problem is a serious issue. Your initial dismissal of my statmentE >as an interesting anecdote included by definition a dismisal of the UC >Gartner report after all the Gartner report backs up the anecdote.N >D@ >From this it is obvious that you didn't take the Gartner report
 >seriouslyG >you do now because you have relaised belately that your argument isn't  >very water tight. More spin.t > F >> Oh dear, it took me months of explanations to get you to understand  > I never dismissed the Gartner report.  I just pointed out yourD hypocrisy for using it as evidence that Compaq produces low quality @ equipment when Sun themselves were under the weight of a GartnerD report that questions the reliability of certain Enterprise Servers.  A >> what the term FUD means, am I going to have to spend much time[B >> getting you to comprehend what an anecdote is?  Let's hope your= >> comprehension difficulties don't get in the way this time.  >>   > A >Sorry Jordan you have provided months of explanations which you  > >comprehensively blew in the last paragraph of the discussion  >we were having. > ; >"You see Andrew, I'm not in the business of FUD.  I don't B= >challenge _everything_ said here, pro or con Compaq/OpenVMS. : >No, mostly I only get involved in these debates with one 8 >Sun employee who is obviously on a mission to discredit: >Compaq, OpenVMS and it's adherents on this newsgroup set & >aside for discussions about OpenVMS." >0< >And if this is really the case why are you objecting to my 9 >posting, all I am doing is showing that Compaq/Digitals  : >past misdemeanors disqualify Kerry from passing judgment 7 >on Sun's handling of the eCache issues. Do you really 8; >think that this is FUD. If you hadn't worked it out Kerrys 6 >point is that based on the RA-XX episode Compaq could6 >be trusted to handle something like the eCache issue 5 >better than Sun, this is by your own definition FUD./ >M  : You are very selective in your understanding of the above.< I object to your posting anti-Compaq and anti-OpenVMS things7 in this forum.  Posting such things here is just FUD.  *> Microsoft employees are famous for posting FUD in comp.os.os2,< and it's been widely recognized and criticized as FUD.  What9 you do here is FUD.  What Kerry and I do here is provide  9 defense to these FUD attacks, and that is appropriate for  this forum, in my book.  E  6 >I didn't notice you correcting Kerry, where were you. >=5 >Nor does your "I only get involved in these debates"F5 >statement have any ring of truth about it, you were 04 >after all the person who insisted that the eBay 22 1 >hour outage was Sun's fault long after the head  5 >choirmaster had addmitted that it was all a cut and   >paste problem on his part.A >R  7 What I objected to was your insistence that the eBay 22 4 hour outage had been proven to be, beyond the shadow2 of any doubt, not the fault of Sun HW/SW.  I asked3 for any real evidence and presented my evidence to 07 believe otherwise.  I never insisted anything about whoD) was at cause for the eBay 22 hour outage.   8 Somehow, you never did actually come up with anything to3 prove that Sun HW/SW were not involved, but you did 8 shriek at how I was the only one saying that the eBay 228 hour outage was the fault of Sun HW/SW and that I was on8 a FUD campaign to discredit Sun.  Funny how the eBay 22 6 hour outage always seems to come up in the trade press9 when Sun reliability is discussed.  If nobody but I think 9 that Sun was involved, then why is eBay still assuring us0 of this fact 18 months later?0  6   http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB973636942369499535.html  * I thought "everyone" knew that long ago...   > G >> My dictionary says that an anecdote is "a usually short narrative of E >> an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident".  A story about H >> your friend's Compaq laptop is an anecdote, while a Gartner Report is >> not.L >> LJ >Jordan in case you hadn't worked it out your story about the reliability C >of your Armada vs the Dell was also an anecdote, unfortunately my  E >anecdote at least has a report from Gartner to corroberate it which   >yours does not. >R  A I guess sarcasm is a bit too complicated for you.  I was showing  E how you can use anecdotes to "prove" that Compaq Armada's were fine,  < just as you used anecdotes to "prove" that they were faulty.  E >Also in case you hadn't worked it out most of you Java postings are  C >also based on a series of anecdotes hence the unconcious irony on S >your part.4 >   F Really?  I don't see any anecdotes in my Java postings...  An anecdoteC would be "I knew someone who used Java and they said it would neverMC work..." or somesuch.  I just gave you reasons why vendors might be B reluctant to promote Java to the degree that Sun is.  I also gave A evidence that prominent Java partners showed concern about Sun's  G control over Java standards.  It's not an anecdote to quote an industryO  source or trade press article...   >  >regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:46:18 -0600 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>E1 Subject: RE: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platform N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D8052849C0@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,   % Boy, I guess I really hit a nerve eh?R   :-)R  @ > > I don't think that is the point, the real question is should? > > Kerry be taking some sort of holier than thou attitude with*? > > other vendors when Compaq and Digital before them have such 8 > > a poor track record or should he refrain from making > > pronouncements.3  E Andrew, Andrew - I never said Compaq (or Digital) has never had any =  CustomerF relationship issues. No vendor can say that as all vendors have had to address issues at some point.S  ' Simple point - it is now Sun's turn.=20#  F Based on press reports, it appears there are no ECC design features onI several SPARC II based systems. Traditionally, this makes systems run a =* bit*D faster, but at the expense of occasional issues with data integrity.  A Is this not an accurate reflection on what is happening today?=20D   If not, please correct me.   :-):   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]H Sent: November 10, 2000 6:58 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComS1 Subject: Re: Sun UE10000 is *NOT* an HPC platformE     Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >=20 > andrew harrison wrote:@ > > I don't think that is the point, the real question is should? > > Kerry be taking some sort of holier than thou attitude with ? > > other vendors when Compaq and Digital before them have such38 > > a poor track record or should he refrain from making > > pronouncements.= > >=G > > Compaq/Digital may have "ponied up to the bar" over the RA-XX disksD< > > they didn't over the VAX9000 the MIPS fiasco, the Armada4 > > laptops the broken NT on Alpha promises etc etc. >=20B > MIPS and NT/Alpha are business marketing decisions not technical > problems.p >=20  7 Ohhhh no they were not. The business/marketing decisonsk7 killed off the MIPS product range but a system going=20 9 slower when you add more CPU's is not caused by marketing- its a technical issue.  @ Sure sales and marketing at Digital over hyped the capability=20: fo the MIPS MP server but technically it didn't deliver=200 what it was supposed to for a number of reasons.  ( 1	Ultrix wasn't optimised for MP systems. 2	The architecture of the MP systems ment that 	they were unlikely to scale.n" 3	Digital were not helped by MIPS.  : Now you could forgive some of this, MIPS did shaft Digital; if Digital had stopped trying to sell the systems when they 6 knew that they didn't work, but that was not the case.   For example in the UK0  A Sun and HP lost out in one EDU procurement because another EDU=20CI establishment provided possitive references for the MIPS boxes despite=20yD knowing from their own experience that they didn't work. They did=20C so because they were promised a working solution in return for a=20e
 reference.=20a  @ The was a huge row when the first EDU organisation found out and@ neither system ever worked, HP picked up one of the accounts and< Sun the other ending Digitals involvement in either account.  B Please don't get me wrong, this is not a Sun vs Compaq argument itC is an argument about Kerrys right to assume some sort of Moral high A ground in this discussion which he quite obviously does not have.l    , > VAX 9000 and RA-disks are 10-15 years ago. >=20  < Right so why is Kerry using the RA-XX story as an example of@ Compaq/Digital "Ponying up to the bar". There are more recent=20A examples of Digital/Compaq doing exactly the opposite e.g dumping.B customers in the S**T. I didn't notice you correcting his posting.  B > So basicly you are comparing SUN's UE10000 problems with Compaqs > Armada laptop problems !!!!s >=20  ? No you missed the point, Kerry is trying to assume some sort ofd7 holier than thou persona which Digital and Compaqs pasts' actions give him no right to assume.=20d   Regardsl Andrew Harrison- Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2000 14:05:48 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)o' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections@* Message-ID: <8umpmc$opg$1@lisa.gemair.com>  L In article <rdeininger-1211001045320001@user-2ive631.dialup.mindspring.com>,3 Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:l\ >In article <3A0E5520.BECF84AA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >} >> Dave Weatherall wrote: J >> > Speaking as a euorpean. I first saw the Palm Beach voting form on theI >> > TV when they frist reported the complaints and I couldn't see how it  >> > was meant to work.o >> tH >> In all fairness to the Yanks, their elections include a whole slew ofK >> referendums and elections, not just voting for the president. They electtG >> everything from your sheriff to the president, and have all sorts of L >> resolutiosn you vote on. So the ballot is longer and more complex than inO >> other nations. But it should still be clearly laid out. The use of colour or - >> even gray would have helped in the design.  > k >The pictures I've seen are somewhat misleading.  They give a 2-dimensional view of a 3-dimensional device.U >E>The ballot was designed by a Democrat election judge, BTW.  It was presented to both parties ahead of time, and both approved.  Then a sample was mailed to every registered voter.  There weren't any objections before, during, or after the election --- until the result was known to be close.  If you want to challenge a very close election, there's ALWAYS a semi-plausible reason available.i >i  H Actually, I'm hearing there were reports of complaints about the ballotsG being confusing the afternoon of the election.  I heard that the State hG Canvassing Board even sent out a notice to all precincts to alert them  " to clarify this matter for voters.  J I understand that the layout was chosen to allow for the print to be very K large so as to facilitate easy reading for seniors with failing eyes.  It's G not at all clear that the ballots were "illegal" as some would have yourJ believe.  Florida State law specifies the layout of paper ballots and alsoK states that "computer" ballots (which these punch cards are interpreted as  L being) are to follow the layout in so far as pratical.  The local CanvassingI Board has discretion, and they chose that the larger print and having allhJ candidates in a single view were "practical" in this case.  Interestingly,G another county had a large number of spoiled ballots from people votinghF for more than one candidate.  Apparently, they had their Presidential @ choices on more than one page and people selected more than one.   >Speaking of color, in some parts of Indiana, they managed to print the ballots with all (and only) the Democrats hi-lighted in bright yellow.  I guess nobody thought of outlawing that yet.h > P >> In Canada, where we have 5 time zones, the media agree not to release results: >> to a province until that province's polls have closed.  > >The U.S. media makes the same promise.  They often ignore it, and there's no way to punish them.  This time, they cheated in both Florida and Texas, but Texas was so lop-sided nobody cared.  (Also, the initial guess of the Texas result turned out to be correct.)e >r >--  >Robert Deiningeru >rdeininger@mindspring.com   -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:56:39 -0600-) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>4' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections / Message-ID: <t0uevi6iq49u3f@corp.supernews.com>t  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3A0DFC80.DACC340A@videotron.ca... > "Glenn C. Everhart" wrote:G > > Consider that there are regularly accusations of bias in elections,a? > > of fraud, invented votes, etc., especially in large cities.  >nI > Consider that each week, lotteries can process millions of "votes", andu withinH > a couple of hours of the winning number having been selected, they can countDF > all of the "votes" and announce if there are winners, and from which	 region ofs > the country they came from.   . A few problems with adapting lottery software:  J Lotteries sell their "votes", and do not care how many times someone casts' their "vote" as long as they have paid.   G > I think that technology could be used to ensure an accurate count the  firstn/ > time around, and a count that can be trusted.d  J The people that do not understand a technology will not trust it for their votes.   -JohnU wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:50:52 -0400b- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionst, Message-ID: <3A0F3AE5.303F5A04@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:e< > The ballot was designed by a Democrat election judge, BTW.  J To me, this is irrelevant. The whole election process should be runned by=  anuJ independant apolitical entity.  The ballot should be designed by an elect= ionhJ judge.  That this judge happens to vote X or Y when the time comes for hi= m/heriJ to cast his personal vote should be something that is kept private to tha=	 t person.   J Each political party should simply have an official observer to ensure th= atJ the election judge remains apolitical and fair to all candidates. This is=  parto" of being able to trust the system.  J What I also don't understand  are media reports that "there were <number>=  ofdJ registered <party_name> voters in that county. Shouldn't your party prefe= rence J be something you keep private and only release on an anonymous ballot ? D= OescJ the USA really request that each citizen register his political affiliati= on in   order to get the right to vote ?    J > It was presented to both parties ahead of time, and both approved.  The= n a sample was mailed to =  J >every registered voter.  There weren't any objections before, during, or=   after the election ---  J Microsoft sends new software out in Beta to a select group of "voters" to=  testsJ the software out. But it is only when it is released to the world that th= erB software is truly tested and the bugs and design problems come up.  J Remember that those who approved the ballot are usually very informed abo= utJ the process and to them, it was a very easy and clear ballot. But when yo= unJ release it to the masses, you may find that the user interface design wil= ltJ cause user errors. This is like designing a web page on a microsoft platf= orm J with a 1800*1200 giant screen and when you present it to your customer fo= rcJ approval, it looks really great and spiffy. But when they roll it out, it=  will F take some time for the company to realise that a certain percentage ofJ customers never choose certain options and and even longer time to realis= eiJ that the HTML coder specifically removed horizontal scrolling bars, and a=  J large percentage of the population has screens not large enough to access=  all* options so they never click on the options  J So, I can understand that a ballot design issue may become visible AFTER = ther fact. =r    J Having said this, I think that if I had been a voter for Gore in that cou= nty,J my comments to the media would be "you know, I thought I voted for gore, = butrJ now that you point out that the ballot had two holes in gore's box, and o= nly>E the bottom one was for Gore, I am not sure whom I voted for anymore".   J Those who claim they voted for the wrong person have no excuse. If you kn= owJ you punched the wrong hole, you should be able to get a new ballot and do=
  it right.  A >If you want to challenge a very close election, there's ALWAYS af  semi-plausible reason available.  J During the last Qu=E9bec referendum, it was very close too. And the Parti=  J Qu=E9b=E9cois was arguing that they needed only a majority of a single vo= te in F order to claim to have the mandate to separate Qu=E9bec from Canada. =    J In the end, the PQ's arguments are those who helped the federal govt sinc= e thetJ feds won by a very narrow margin. And yes, there were a few recounts.  An= d J being a referendum, every vote counted since it the total number of votes=
  that counts.s  J > Speaking of color, in some parts of Indiana, they managed to print the =J ballots with all (and only) > the Democrats hi-lighted in bright yellow. =.  I guess nobody thought of outlawing that yet.  F But using your argument, wasn't the ballot distributed to everyone and approved by all parties ?   J When you have two different candidates, the differences in public opinion=  willmJ usually be greater than the average error rate in counting ballots. But w= heniJ you have two equally boring and nearly identical candidates, you are putt= ingsH the election system to the test because you are essentially dividing theJ nation equally between the two and only a few votes will count in the end= =2E TheiA election "system" must therefore be setup to have such precision.o  G A "system" which cannot reproduce the same results when you run a batchu< through it multiple times should not be considered adequate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:10:33 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionse5 Message-ID: <1001112210951.2093A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   $ On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, JF Mezei wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:o> > > The ballot was designed by a Democrat election judge, BTW. >=20L > To me, this is irrelevant. The whole election process should be runned by=  andL > independant apolitical entity.  The ballot should be designed by an elect= ionrL > judge.  That this judge happens to vote X or Y when the time comes for hi= m/herIL > to cast his personal vote should be something that is kept private to tha=	 t person.y >=20L > Each political party should simply have an official observer to ensure th= atL > the election judge remains apolitical and fair to all candidates. This is=  part $ > of being able to trust the system.  C This is a state matter, not federal.  There are different rules and  procedures in each state.o  L > What I also don't understand  are media reports that "there were <number>=  ofoL > registered <party_name> voters in that county. Shouldn't your party prefe= renceuL > be something you keep private and only release on an anonymous ballot ? D= Oes L > the USA really request that each citizen register his political affiliati= on ine" > order to get the right to vote ?  H No, you aren't required to have a party affiliation and about 30% of the voters don't, IIRC.h  D You must be a member of a party to vote in a party primary election.@ (Primaries are used to select the party candidates for the finalD elections.)  There are complicated rules about getting on the ballotD for the final election, but basically any party that polled at leastF x% (5%?) in the most recent general election is automatically eligibleG to put its candidates (i.e. primary winners) on the ballot.  Otherwise, I you need to submit nominating petitions signed by sufficient voters to=20uJ get on the ballot.  I think the petition requirement is about 1% of the=20C registered voters.  (You as a voter can sign more than 1 petition.)   D The state runs the primary elections several months before the finalD election.  I think any party eligible for the final election is alsoD eligible to have a primary election.  I don't think the parties need@ to use the primaries to determine their candidates for the final@ elections, but most choose to do so.  Also, in some cases in the@ primary, you are voting directly for the candidate, but in otherB cases, you are actually voting for a slate of delegates to a partyC convention who are pledged to vote for that candidate, at least fora the first round of voting.  ) Again the rules vary from state to state.s  = To vote in the primary, you need to be registered as a memberi@ of the party.  Some states let you switch parties at the polling; place on election day.  Others require you to register as a-A party member some time in advance.  Some states, such as my state ? of Massachusetts, let you join a party if you are currently noti? registered as a party member (independent, aka unenrolled), but6< don't let you switch parties on election day.  Massachusetts< also lets you un-register as you leave the polling place, so< you can walk in, join a party, vote in the primary, and then@ quit the party in a few minutes.  Lots of people do this so they; can keep their options open for the next election.  I thinkt: California allows you to ask for any party's ballot at the@ primary election, even if you are a registered member of another party.  : To get on the primary ballot for one party or another, you= usually need to submit nominating petitions, similar to thosei9 used by independent or 3rd party candidates for the finalp	 election.p  ? The one thing you can't do is vote in the primary for more thansC one party.  So if you like the Democrat who is running for senator,tB but the Republican who is running for Congress, you can't vote forD both of them in the primary.  (You could write one of them in on theD other party's ballot, but their chances of winning is minimal.  LikeG all strange election possibilities, I'm pretty sure this has happened.):  J This just applies to the primary.  You can vote for whoever you want to=20D in the final election.  There was a Whig on my ballot for Governor'sA Council (I think.)  I was tempted to vote for him just because...U: The Whig party disappeared in the late 1850's, though they= might have had a candidate running against Abraham Lincoln ino 1860!=20  A There is nothing intrinsicly 2-party in any of this, but only thetA Democrats and Republicans usually have enough members/volunteers/e= candidates/petition-gatherers to keep this machinery running.f  L > > It was presented to both parties ahead of time, and both approved.  The= nh a sample was mailed to=20DK > >every registered voter.  There weren't any objections before, during, orh > after the election --- >=20L > Microsoft sends new software out in Beta to a select group of "voters" to=  testrL > the software out. But it is only when it is released to the world that th= edD > software is truly tested and the bugs and design problems come up. >=20L > Remember that those who approved the ballot are usually very informed abo= utL > the process and to them, it was a very easy and clear ballot. But when yo= ulL > release it to the masses, you may find that the user interface design wil= lrL > cause user errors. This is like designing a web page on a microsoft platf= orm L > with a 1800*1200 giant screen and when you present it to your customer fo= rlL > approval, it looks really great and spiffy. But when they roll it out, it=  will H > take some time for the company to realise that a certain percentage ofL > customers never choose certain options and and even longer time to realis= euK > that the HTML coder specifically removed horizontal scrolling bars, and abL > large percentage of the population has screens not large enough to access=  all, > options so they never click on the options >=20L > So, I can understand that a ballot design issue may become visible AFTER = thei
 > fact.=20  F My town uses machine-readable paper ballots.  You fill in the circles,F like an SAT test.  I was discussing this with a friend whose town usesF the same system, and mentioned how it might have been easy to miss theF stuff on the other side of the ballot if you didn't turn it over.  SheC said "Turn it over?  Nobody told me to turn it over!", but then she0F remembered voting on some of the referendum questions that were on theB other side, so she must have done so.  (There were 9 offices and 8A questions on the ballot, IIRC.  The last 3 or 4 questions were ona
 the back.)  L > Having said this, I think that if I had been a voter for Gore in that cou= nty,L > my comments to the media would be "you know, I thought I voted for gore, = butpL > now that you point out that the ballot had two holes in gore's box, and o= nly G > the bottom one was for Gore, I am not sure whom I voted for anymore".n  J Actually, I am pretty sure no one in Palm Beach County said "whom".  We'reG Americans.  We're confused enough as it is.  We can never keep track of: "who" vs. "whom".d  L > Those who claim they voted for the wrong person have no excuse. If you kn= owK > you punched the wrong hole, you should be able to get a new ballot and do3	 it right.2 >=20  C Though it would be nice if they had some kind of card reader at thewD polling place that you could slip your card into and it would verifyG your choices (maybe light up lights next to the names you had selected,kB that only you could see), and also verify you hadn't voted for twoD candidates.  (Some elections, such as city council elections or town< meeting elections allow you to vote for several candidates.)  A I used to live somewhere that used the punch-out card method usedeC by Palm Beach.  I remember always being worried that the little bit C of chaff had completely separated, and wasn't still attached by onetD edge, where it could flop back and cover the hole.  As I recall, theB holes were pre-punched except for small attachment points, to makeA it easier to punch them out with a pin, and it seemed really easye@ for 1) not to punch it out completely, leaving it still attached@ or 2) for a stray bit of chaff to get wedged in a hole or 3) for@ another hole to get accidently punched, maybe by the edge of one: ballot scraping across an un-punched hole, catching in the@ perforations, and tearing out that hole too.  I'm sure you could> do it easily enough with a fingernail.  It wasn't like a solid" card going through an 029 punch...  C > >If you want to challenge a very close election, there's ALWAYS al" > semi-plausible reason available. >=20K > During the last Qu=E9bec referendum, it was very close too. And the PartifL > Qu=E9b=E9cois was arguing that they needed only a majority of a single vo= te inaI > order to claim to have the mandate to separate Qu=E9bec from Canada.=20s >=20L > In the end, the PQ's arguments are those who helped the federal govt sinc= e thetL > feds won by a very narrow margin. And yes, there were a few recounts.  An= daK > being a referendum, every vote counted since it the total number of votesc that counts.  G Hmm.  Usually in the US, something as fundamental as that would requireu2 a 2/3 or 3/5 majority to pass, not a simple 50%+1.  K I forget the exact rules for constitional amendments, but they require both J a 2/3 or larger vote by congress and approval by 2/3 or 3/4 of the states.G State constitional amendments (and DECUS bylaw amendments) are similar.a  L > > Speaking of color, in some parts of Indiana, they managed to print the =L ballots with all (and only) > the Democrats hi-lighted in bright yellow.  I=,  guess nobody thought of outlawing that yet. >=20H > But using your argument, wasn't the ballot distributed to everyone and > approved by all parties ?g >=20L > When you have two different candidates, the differences in public opinion=  willhL > usually be greater than the average error rate in counting ballots. But w= henuL > you have two equally boring and nearly identical candidates, you are putt= ingeJ > the election system to the test because you are essentially dividing theL > nation equally between the two and only a few votes will count in the end= . ThetC > election "system" must therefore be setup to have such precision.  >=20I > A "system" which cannot reproduce the same results when you run a batchn> > through it multiple times should not be considered adequate.  * I.E. Recounts producing different results?   --=20< John Santost   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 05:49:43 GMT@ From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com"' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionsm8 Message-ID: <g5vu0tgbvm8oma7astds74rofagb7n8c91@4ax.com>  7 On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:24:32 -0500, "Glenn C. Everhart"c <Everhart@GCE.com> wrote:o  < >While a focus on the remedy in one or two counties seems to@ >suggest a remedy, remediating only a few areas heavily favoring: >one party introduces a huge bias by the choice of area to >remediate.  ...  9 What I had read earlier today (no cite), is the counties n, doing recounts by hand, were those in which 4 the mechanical recounts showed inconsistant results,  ; that, in theory anyway, the counties doing recounts by hando< were doing so regardless of which party was heavily favored.  < What I found interesting, through all of this, was to learn > how many ballots are typically disallowed in a given election.  6 the first remedy,  might be something to help a voter 5 confirm that his/her ballot is sound, and/or perhaps rA even that the punched ballot really reflects their final choices.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:30:34 +0100m> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>: Subject: unable to unzip files to their original locations- Message-ID: <8umuf2$op$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>c   Bonjour  tous  ? I'm trying to implement a solution to zip applications files tou< archive files with ZIP/UNZIP 2.2 . The application files are= located in directories designated by different logical names.u< When I unzip the archive, the whole directory tree under the7 original devices is created under my current directory.e? I would like the file to come back to their original locations.p   The zip commands used aret' $ ZIP ARCHIVE.ZIP a:'NAME'.* /vms/quieti* $ ZIP ARCHIVE.ZIP b:['NAME']*.* :vms/quiet  ; Did I miss a qualifier (I'me using vms style commands) whens7 zipping ? What qualifiers should I use when unzipping ?u: Do I need to unzip to a temporary directory and move files by myself ?u   Cordialement Jean-Franois Marchalu X9000 - LYON (FR)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:50:37 -0600a7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e> Subject: Re: unable to unzip files to their original locations- Message-ID: <3A0F1EBD.BE3F834D@earthlink.net>    "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote: >  > Bonjour  tous > A > I'm trying to implement a solution to zip applications files to-> > archive files with ZIP/UNZIP 2.2 . The application files are? > located in directories designated by different logical names.i> > When I unzip the archive, the whole directory tree under the9 > original devices is created under my current directory.hA > I would like the file to come back to their original locations.  >  > The zip commands used arey) > $ ZIP ARCHIVE.ZIP a:'NAME'.* /vms/quiete, > $ ZIP ARCHIVE.ZIP b:['NAME']*.* :vms/quiet > = > Did I miss a qualifier (I'me using vms style commands) wheni9 > zipping ? What qualifiers should I use when unzipping ?2< > Do I need to unzip to a temporary directory and move files
 > by myself ?t  F In my experience, it's always been easiest to simply set my default toH the desired location BEFORE invoking UNZIP. That way, the directory tree< is always created starting from the current default on down.  H ZIP and UNZIP, like tar and PKZIP (not to mention BACKUP), know only the@ paths under which the files are stored. Except for BACKUP, theseG originated on systems where the concept of separate physical volumes issF more or less foreign. Also, th typical technique uderthopse o.s.-es isD set "cd" (or set the desired default) before beginning to unpack the6 archive. This concept is carried forward into VMSland.  1 That said, yes, UNZIP has a /DIRECTORY qualifier:r  % DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ help unzip /directh   UNZIPh     /DIRECTORY        /DIRECTORY=directory-spec  H      Specifies the output directory where all the extracted files are to      be placed.f  ) (from the on-line help for UNZIP V5.3-2.)=  - DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ unzip unzu2053/dir=[.zips]b( Archive:  DKA0:[DDACHTERA]UNZU2053.ZIP;1%   inflating: [.ZIPS]unzip_u2053.a    o  $ DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir [.zips]unz*.%   Directory DKA0:[DDACHTERA.ZIPS]t  > UNZIP_U2053.A;1         5204/5208      5-NOV-1998 16:27:19.46  (RWED,RWED,RE,)   " Total of 1 file, 5204/5208 blocks.  5 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ unzip unzu2053/dir=dka500:[000000]e( Archive:  DKA0:[DDACHTERA]UNZU2053.ZIP;1+   inflating: DKA500:[000000]unzip_u2053.a  o  * DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir dka500:[000000]unz*   Directory DKA500:[000000]g  > UNZIP_U2053.A;1         5204/5208      5-NOV-1998 16:27:19.46  (RWED,RWED,RE,)u  " Total of 1 file, 5204/5208 blocks.   So, it does seem to work.    -- o David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:44:46 +0100i> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>> Subject: Re: unable to unzip files to their original locations. Message-ID: <8un9r6$7m7$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>  B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:3A0F1EBD.BE3F834D@earthlink.net...h  > "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote: > >  > > Bonjour  tous > > C > > I'm trying to implement a solution to zip applications files to-@ > > archive files with ZIP/UNZIP 2.2 . The application files areA > > located in directories designated by different logical names.e@ > > When I unzip the archive, the whole directory tree under the; > > original devices is created under my current directory. C > > I would like the file to come back to their original locations.  > >m > > The zip commands used aree+ > > $ ZIP ARCHIVE.ZIP a:'NAME'.* /vms/quiet . > > $ ZIP ARCHIVE.ZIP b:['NAME']*.* :vms/quiet > >e? > > Did I miss a qualifier (I'me using vms style commands) wheno; > > zipping ? What qualifiers should I use when unzipping ?i> > > Do I need to unzip to a temporary directory and move files > > by myself ?0 > H > In my experience, it's always been easiest to simply set my default toJ > the desired location BEFORE invoking UNZIP. That way, the directory tree> > is always created starting from the current default on down. >tJ > ZIP and UNZIP, like tar and PKZIP (not to mention BACKUP), know only theB > paths under which the files are stored. Except for BACKUP, theseI > originated on systems where the concept of separate physical volumes is.H > more or less foreign. Also, th typical technique uderthopse o.s.-es isF > set "cd" (or set the desired default) before beginning to unpack the8 > archive. This concept is carried forward into VMSland. > 3 > That said, yes, UNZIP has a /DIRECTORY qualifier:r >i' > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ help unzip /direct  >  > UNZIPo >s >   /DIRECTORY >o  >      /DIRECTORY=directory-spec > J >      Specifies the output directory where all the extracted files are to >      be placed.  >c+ > (from the on-line help for UNZIP V5.3-2.)t >g/ > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ unzip unzu2053/dir=[.zips]a* > Archive:  DKA0:[DDACHTERA]UNZU2053.ZIP;1# >   inflating: [.ZIPS]unzip_u2053.ai >u& > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir [.zips]unz*.% > ! > Directory DKA0:[DDACHTERA.ZIPS]t >O? > UNZIP_U2053.A;1         5204/5208      5-NOV-1998 16:27:19.46f > (RWED,RWED,RE,)u >e$ > Total of 1 file, 5204/5208 blocks. >q7 > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ unzip unzu2053/dir=dka500:[000000]a* > Archive:  DKA0:[DDACHTERA]UNZU2053.ZIP;1+ >   inflating: DKA500:[000000]unzip_u2053.al >n, > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir dka500:[000000]unz* >y > Directory DKA500:[000000]i >i? > UNZIP_U2053.A;1         5204/5208      5-NOV-1998 16:27:19.46a > (RWED,RWED,RE,)t >p$ > Total of 1 file, 5204/5208 blocks. >r > So, it does seem to work.s >h > -- > David J. Dachteram > dba DJE Systemsm > http://www.djesys.com/ >f< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y >oH > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >gB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:46:54 +0100r> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>> Subject: Re: unable to unzip files to their original locations. Message-ID: <8un9v6$7oj$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>   Thank you for your response.  C I'm going to use the directory qualifier along with zipping a shorty0 file indicating where the files where before ...   Cordialement
 Jean-Franoisy  B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:3A0F1EBD.BE3F834D@earthlink.net...h  > "Jean-Franois Marchal" wrote: > >a > > Bonjour  tous > >pC > > I'm trying to implement a solution to zip applications files tom@ > > archive files with ZIP/UNZIP 2.2 . The application files areA > > located in directories designated by different logical names.s@ > > When I unzip the archive, the whole directory tree under the; > > original devices is created under my current directory.iC > > I would like the file to come back to their original locations.  > >s > > The zip commands used are + > > $ ZIP ARCHIVE.ZIP a:'NAME'.* /vms/quieta. > > $ ZIP ARCHIVE.ZIP b:['NAME']*.* :vms/quiet > >d? > > Did I miss a qualifier (I'me using vms style commands) whenn; > > zipping ? What qualifiers should I use when unzipping ?i> > > Do I need to unzip to a temporary directory and move files > > by myself ?  >uH > In my experience, it's always been easiest to simply set my default toJ > the desired location BEFORE invoking UNZIP. That way, the directory tree> > is always created starting from the current default on down. >5J > ZIP and UNZIP, like tar and PKZIP (not to mention BACKUP), know only theB > paths under which the files are stored. Except for BACKUP, theseI > originated on systems where the concept of separate physical volumes isuH > more or less foreign. Also, th typical technique uderthopse o.s.-es isF > set "cd" (or set the desired default) before beginning to unpack the8 > archive. This concept is carried forward into VMSland. >o3 > That said, yes, UNZIP has a /DIRECTORY qualifier:h > ' > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ help unzip /direct  >d > UNZIPt >e >   /DIRECTORY >e  >      /DIRECTORY=directory-spec > J >      Specifies the output directory where all the extracted files are to >      be placed.r > + > (from the on-line help for UNZIP V5.3-2.)u > / > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ unzip unzu2053/dir=[.zips]o* > Archive:  DKA0:[DDACHTERA]UNZU2053.ZIP;1# >   inflating: [.ZIPS]unzip_u2053.as >n& > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir [.zips]unz*.% > ! > Directory DKA0:[DDACHTERA.ZIPS]  > ? > UNZIP_U2053.A;1         5204/5208      5-NOV-1998 16:27:19.46  > (RWED,RWED,RE,)e > $ > Total of 1 file, 5204/5208 blocks. >27 > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ unzip unzu2053/dir=dka500:[000000]f* > Archive:  DKA0:[DDACHTERA]UNZU2053.ZIP;1+ >   inflating: DKA500:[000000]unzip_u2053.al > , > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir dka500:[000000]unz* >a > Directory DKA500:[000000]t >r? > UNZIP_U2053.A;1         5204/5208      5-NOV-1998 16:27:19.46= > (RWED,RWED,RE,)M >o$ > Total of 1 file, 5204/5208 blocks. >l > So, it does seem to work.c >a > -- > David J. Dachterar > dba DJE Systemsg > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e >eH > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. > B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >tH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:01:46 -0600N+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>02 Subject: RE: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D8052849BF@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   FC,8  
 Check out:A <http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/quotes/northern_light.html> ; <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/NORTHERN/>G  G Also, go to www.northernlight.com, and look at the logo on the bottom =o of theH page. Also, enter any query and look at the Northern Light logo at the = left side.s   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantG Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services" Voice: 613-592-4660p Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com         -----Original Message-----) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br:, [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br] Sent: November 8, 2000 1:42 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . Subject: www.northernlight.com using Solaris ?      F I checked  at     http:// www.netcraft.com  and sounds like Northern = Light  isD using a Solaris server  as http server ?  It=B4s not OpenVMS powered
 anymore???  > http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph/?host=3Dwww.northernlight.com   Regards,   FC.t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.634 ************************