1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 14 Nov 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 637       Contents:! Re: *.*;-0: undocumented feature? & Re: Accessing a OpenVMS server from NTP Re: Anybody know if exist a free emulator of  "VAX/VMS Operating System"for PCs?E Re: AS 255/233, which graphics card do I have without opening the box E Re: AS 255/233, which graphics card do I have without opening the box E Re: AS 255/233, which graphics card do I have without opening the box E Re: AS 255/233, which graphics card do I have without opening the box  Re: Compiler /tune switches. Re: DE204 under OpenVMS 7.2  Re: DE204 under OpenVMS 7.2 1 Re: Disk write-back cache - how do I turn it off? , Re: Does CompaQ TCP/IP support secure shell? educational licenses* Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.* Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.5 Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!! 5 Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!! 5 Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!! 5 Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!! : Re: Help... Need Software to Logoff users after 20 minutes$ Hobbyist Alpha Kit To Loan In Europe( Re: Hobbyist Alpha Kit To Loan In Europe! Memo:  disk benchmarking software 7 Re: Network PostScript printer and non PostScript files  Re: Printing blank page $ Reinventing the wheel :-( Just Do It2 Re: Research Systems Inc. dropping support for VMS5 Re: Resurrecting an Alphastation 200/250: help needed 	 Re: RWAST 	 Re: RWAST . Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed sharing global data on Alpha  Re: sharing global data on Alpha  Re: sharing global data on Alpha  Re: sharing global data on Alpha  Re: sharing global data on Alpha Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: System disk filling up Re: System disk filling up Re: System disk filling up Re: System disk filling up Re: Systemwide resource locks  Re: Systemwide resource locks  Re: Systemwide resource locks  Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US Elections RE: Technology of US Elections RE: Technology of US Elections RE: Technology of US Elections RE: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US ElectionsA Re: Technology of US elections OR why Palm Beach selected Solaris 4 Re: Technology of US elections x Brazilian elections4 Re: Technology of US elections x Brazilian elections4 Re: Technology of US elections x Brazilian elections0 Tracking IO - unsupported DCL/debugging feature?4 Re: Tracking IO - unsupported DCL/debugging feature?4 Re: Tracking IO - unsupported DCL/debugging feature?! Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 11:14:29 -0600& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org>* Subject: Re: *.*;-0: undocumented feature?, Message-ID: <m3em0escga.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>
 Keywords: dfu   * On 13 Heshvan 5761, Howard S. Shubs wrote:  D > In article <3A0DBA0F.A59B846E@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" & > <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > % >>My, MY! Getting a bit testy are we?  > E > Nono... trying to be funny.  Guess it didn't work.  <sigh> I -know- 8 > I've heard of that thang, but I know I've not used it.  D Some of us got it.  When I worked back in the user support world, weE sometimes blamed problems on a bad DFU, which stood for "Dumb ****ing G User."  Of course, probably nearly all sysadmins have several of those,   to answer your earlier question.  0 Of course, I _never_ think things like that now. --  F Charles Sebold, Systems Specialist                     LCMS Unix site:O LCMS - Office of Information Systems                       http://unix.ois.org/ O *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***  5E74 5869 00E0 2368 3296 O *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***  0287 C1FD 0045 A5E2 A184  -- 16th of Heshvan, 5761  --6 Never trust anybody whose arm is bigger than your leg.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 16:34:32 GMT# From: casinoop2@aol.com (CasinoOp2) / Subject: Re: Accessing a OpenVMS server from NT : Message-ID: <20001114113432.21913.00001470@ng-fi1.aol.com>  > >Pathworks can work with either tcpip, decnet, netbeui, and i ( >think ipx. This gets configured in VMS. >   = I have all transports checked, maybe I should only check one?     3 >On the PC, you have to associate the protocol you  < >are using with the Pathworks License (in the bindings tab?); >and in the advanced tab try checking 'set this protocol to : >be the default protocol'. That insures that the protocol 9 >used for the netbios connection to pathworks is the one   >with the license.  L Help. I cannot find these options listed anywhere. Can you be more specific?      Clark Calkins, Schafer Corp    ccalkins@schafercorp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 01:47:32 -0800 " From: Rosey Neal <rneal@emory.edu>Y Subject: Re: Anybody know if exist a free emulator of  "VAX/VMS Operating System"for PCs? ) Message-ID: <3A110A34.5F3708D2@emory.edu>    Please let me Know also;   Tanks,   :=)  
 Rosey Neal rneal@emory,edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:40:33 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> N Subject: Re: AS 255/233, which graphics card do I have without opening the box, Message-ID: <8urirh$2sj7$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  L You need to find out the what the device is.  Is it a PCI device?  If it is,K then a CLUE CONFIG in SDA will tell you the device ID in HEX - from that we J can tell you what it is - or at least if it is supported.  If it is an ISAK device, then you'll need to open up the box and figure it out by looking at J the board... although for most known ISA graphics, you just need to do the% ISACFG for a device ID of "ISA--VGA".   K The console "should" tell you something if you do a SHOW CONFIG -- at least  something like "VGA Graphics".      ? Tim Llewellyn wrote in message <3A0C2FA3.41447A2B@bbc.co.uk>...  >  >Hi  > D >I have a AS 255/233 that has recently been reunited with a graphics	 >console. G >I am sure the monitor worked with DECWindows when I configured the box E >with VMS 6.2-1 in 1997. Now it is running VMS 7.1 and Motif 1.2-5. I  >have a monitor D >connected to the SVGA port. I have a PS/2 mouse and keyboard (Dell) >connected.  > F >The monitor works as a dumb console. However, DECWindows keeps sayingD >"No graphics devices are present". Also, and the console mode (>>>)
 >there are. >only disks and tapes reported by SHOW DEVICE. > G >How can I find what graphics card is installed (and in use by VMS as a 	 >console) 7 >without opening the box? Is this just an Open3D issue?  >  >Regards >-- 7 >Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project 1 >MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK. B >Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk > B >I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of >MedAS or the BBC. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:37:11 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> N Subject: Re: AS 255/233, which graphics card do I have without opening the box) Message-ID: <3A115C27.1AA8ACA5@bbc.co.uk>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  N > You need to find out the what the device is.  Is it a PCI device?  If it is,M > then a CLUE CONFIG in SDA will tell you the device ID in HEX - from that we L > can tell you what it is - or at least if it is supported.  If it is an ISAM > device, then you'll need to open up the box and figure it out by looking at L > the board... although for most known ISA graphics, you just need to do the' > ISACFG for a device ID of "ISA--VGA".  > M > The console "should" tell you something if you do a SHOW CONFIG -- at least   > something like "VGA Graphics". >   I Thanks Fred and others, I'd forgotten about SHOW CONFIG from the console,  I was using SHOW DEV.   3 I'll take the system down later on, for now I have:   !   3 ISA         80DB8240    0 ISA H                                    80DB8418          0 EISA_SYSTEM_BOARD?                                    80DB8450          1 ISA--VGA <                                    80DB8488          2 PCXBJ  3 so it looks like an ISA card of some type (PCXBJ?).     -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:19:34 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> N Subject: Re: AS 255/233, which graphics card do I have without opening the box2 Message-ID: <3A117593.14D7F30E@clarityconnect.com>  G That appears to be the sound card,  here is an excerpt from the DSNlink G article - [Motif, MME] Troubleshooting the AUA0: Device on AlphaStation  Systems   H    'The AlphaStation 200 series systems come with a small version of theF    Microsoft Sound card plugged in to a single ISA slot off the systemH    module. This ISA slot is separate from the bus I/O Card that contains the G    PCI and EISA/ISA Bus slots. This card shows up under the SRM Console  SHOWH    CONFIG table as the following device.  The option number is PBXJA-AA.  E    ISA Slot  Device   Name     Type       Enabled   BaseAddr   IRQ     DMA E    --------  ------   -------  -----      -------   --------   ----    --- F    2        0        PCXBJ    Singleport   Yes      530         9      0'     Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > P > > You need to find out the what the device is.  Is it a PCI device?  If it is,O > > then a CLUE CONFIG in SDA will tell you the device ID in HEX - from that we N > > can tell you what it is - or at least if it is supported.  If it is an ISAO > > device, then you'll need to open up the box and figure it out by looking at N > > the board... although for most known ISA graphics, you just need to do the) > > ISACFG for a device ID of "ISA--VGA".  > > O > > The console "should" tell you something if you do a SHOW CONFIG -- at least " > > something like "VGA Graphics". > >  > K > Thanks Fred and others, I'd forgotten about SHOW CONFIG from the console,  > I was using SHOW DEV.  > 5 > I'll take the system down later on, for now I have:  > # >   3 ISA         80DB8240    0 ISA J >                                    80DB8418          0 EISA_SYSTEM_BOARDA >                                    80DB8450          1 ISA--VGA > >                                    80DB8488          2 PCXBJ > 5 > so it looks like an ISA card of some type (PCXBJ?).  >  >  -- 8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.    --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:50:03 +0000 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> N Subject: Re: AS 255/233, which graphics card do I have without opening the box) Message-ID: <3A117B4B.54384BFA@bbc.co.uk>    "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:   I > That appears to be the sound card,  here is an excerpt from the DSNlink I > article - [Motif, MME] Troubleshooting the AUA0: Device on AlphaStation 	 > Systems  >   - OK, sounds plausible, here is the full output    Adapter Configuration: ----------------------J TR Adapter     ADP      Hose Bus   BusArrayEntry  Node Device Name / HW-IdP -- ----------- -------- ---- -------------------- ---- -------------------------+  1 KA0D02      80DB7840    0 BUSLESS_SYSTEM    2 PCI         80DB7A40    0 PCIF                                    80DB7D68  PKA:    6 NCR 53C810 SCSI=                                    80DB7DA0          7 SATURN F                                    80DB7EB8  PKB:   12 NCR 53C810 SCSIA                                    80DB7F28  EWA:   14 NI (Tulip)    3 ISA         80DB8240    0 ISAH                                    80DB8418          0 EISA_SYSTEM_BOARD?                                    80DB8450          1 ISA--VGA <                                    80DB8488          2 PCXBJ!  4 XBUS        80DB87C0    0 XBUS ;                                    80DB8998          0 MOUS :                                    80DB89D0          1 KBDB                                    80DB8A08  TTA:    2 Serial PortJ                                    80DB8A40  TTB:    3 NS16450 Serial PortP                                    80DB8A78  LRA:    4 Line Printer (parallel po rt) =                                    80DB8AB0  DVA:    5 Floppy  SDA>  " The graphics is ISA-VGA, I guess ?   > J >    'The AlphaStation 200 series systems come with a small version of theH >    Microsoft Sound card plugged in to a single ISA slot off the systemJ >    module. This ISA slot is separate from the bus I/O Card that contains > the I >    PCI and EISA/ISA Bus slots. This card shows up under the SRM Console  > SHOWJ >    CONFIG table as the following device.  The option number is PBXJA-AA. > D >    ISA Slot  Device   Name     Type       Enabled   BaseAddr   IRQ > DMA E >    --------  ------   -------  -----      -------   --------   ----  > --- C >    2        0        PCXBJ    Singleport   Yes      530         9  > 0' >  > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >  > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > R > > > You need to find out the what the device is.  Is it a PCI device?  If it is,Q > > > then a CLUE CONFIG in SDA will tell you the device ID in HEX - from that we P > > > can tell you what it is - or at least if it is supported.  If it is an ISAQ > > > device, then you'll need to open up the box and figure it out by looking at P > > > the board... although for most known ISA graphics, you just need to do the+ > > > ISACFG for a device ID of "ISA--VGA".  > > > Q > > > The console "should" tell you something if you do a SHOW CONFIG -- at least $ > > > something like "VGA Graphics". > > >  > > M > > Thanks Fred and others, I'd forgotten about SHOW CONFIG from the console,  > > I was using SHOW DEV.  > > 7 > > I'll take the system down later on, for now I have:  > > % > >   3 ISA         80DB8240    0 ISA L > >                                    80DB8418          0 EISA_SYSTEM_BOARDC > >                                    80DB8450          1 ISA--VGA @ > >                                    80DB8488          2 PCXBJ > > 7 > > so it looks like an ISA card of some type (PCXBJ?).  > >  > >  -- : > > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project4 > > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.E > > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  > > E > > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > > MedAS or the BBC.  >  > --H > Jilly   - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NYL >         - jilly@clarityconnect.com                      - Brett Bodine fanL >         - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com                        - since 1975 or so5 >         - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:52:10 -0500 - From: John Reagan <reagan@hiyall.zko.dec.com> % Subject: Re: Compiler /tune switches. 2 Message-ID: <3A0FD5EA.68F52F81@hiyall.zko.dec.com>   Dan Sugalski wrote:  > 1 > At 08:08 PM 11/10/00 +0000, Hoff Hoffman wrote: A > >   The /OPTIMIZE=TUNE should generally be left set to GENERIC.3 > M > Is there much benefit to doing otherwise? The help info's rather... sparse.vJ > :) If a /TUNE=EV6 gets me a boost of a few percent I'm all for the extra > compile time.   H Not to worry, explicitly saying /ARCH=EV56 (or whatever) will change theE default setting of /OPT=TUNE to match.  It doesn't make sense to tell H the compiler that your minimum arch level is EV56, but tune to run on an	 EV5, etc.h     -- i John Reaganh Compaq Pascal Project Leader   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:28:22 GMTe From: ThackrayA@logica.com$ Subject: Re: DE204 under OpenVMS 7.21 Message-ID: <3a10f6c2.87126361@news.logica.co.uk>c  $ Can it be seen from the SRM console,! ( using "show device" ) as EWAx ?D  8 You may have to configure it manually. I believe the SRM command is "isacfg".  2 If you search for "DE204" on google.com you should get some good pointers.n  ? I have DE205 in my Alpha. I did the above search just yesterdaye and got a few good hits.    6 On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:31:27 -0500, "Howard E. Arnold" <arnoldh@celerent.com> wrote:o  F >Are the DE204 network cards supported under OpenVMS 7.2?  We have oneL >installed in a Alphastation 400 4/233 and when we try to configure TCPIP it >fails with no such interface. >  >HowardD >t >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:05:31 +0100s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>i$ Subject: Re: DE204 under OpenVMS 7.2) Message-ID: <3A110E6B.BA70B8D2@gtech.com>l   "Howard E. Arnold" wrote:aG > Are the DE204 network cards supported under OpenVMS 7.2?  We have one M > installed in a Alphastation 400 4/233 and when we try to configure TCPIP ith > fails with no such interface.h   They can be brougth to work.  . But you need to configure everything manually.   Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:07:32 +0100 (MET) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>: Subject: Re: Disk write-back cache - how do I turn it off?6 Message-ID: <200011140803.JAA24901@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  C I find it very abnormal, that the disk write-back cache is enabled.oC Normaly OpenVMS disables it. If you will have a RAIDsystem, OpenVMSoD will not see the single disk and let the disk write-back cache as itA is. You will have a chance to turn it off, if you could address atF single disk. If your able to do so, then you can use the freeware toolD RZDISK with the option -c to change the disk write-back cache state.@ Otherwise you have to connect every disk to a Windows system andB set the disk write-back cache to off with the EZtool from Adaptec.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:19:34 -0700   From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com>5 Subject: Re: Does CompaQ TCP/IP support secure shell? 2 Message-ID: <B2YROsobb8unrJvY2yaxAiO61N9Y@4ax.com>  . Thanks for the Info!  (Appreicate it greatly!)      D Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515) wrote:  3 >In article <P2cQOsKHAJkafofJyjX4MvJ+bhVf@4ax.com>,1( >    	Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> writes: >.H >>    Anyone know if CompaQ TCP/IP support use of a secure shell?  Also,E >> if any add-ons are needed, could you give me a reference?  Thanks!h > I >        At present,  TCP/IP  Services  does  not  include  SSH  support,aI >    although  I've  heard rumors here that it will be added in a  futuretF >    release.  (Did anyone hear something more definite at CETS 2000?) >>I >        The most recent release of  Process Software's Multinet includeseI >    both  an  SSH client and server (daemon), and their TCPware  product B >    will also include these in the next release (soon I believe). >fI >        There is a freely available  SSH  Server  from Dave Jones at OSUoI >    (Ohio  State University) that we've been running for quite some time-I >    now.  See http://er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~jonesd/ssh/ .  This  will I >    build  and  run  under TCP/IP Services (or the older UCX) as well asoI >    Multinet and TCPware.  We use  the  OSU  SSH Server in "production", I >    but  on our busiest node, it "disappears" every few weeks and  needsDI >    to be restarted.  I haven't considered that sufficiently annoying to , >    have tried to track down the problem... >-I >        There is a freely  available  SSH  client  for VMS, called FISH.sI >    See  ftp://ftp.lp.se/vms/fishu1006.zip  (and fishu2006.patch if  you0I >    want to have a little more control of the enviroment  using  logicaleI >    names).   Also  see  http://www.free.lp.se/fish/  for  an  overview. I >    Unfortunately, FISH does  _not_  do  X11  forwarding and the author,OI >    Richard Levitte, seems to have dropped further development, at leasth >    at the moment.  >dI >        There is a mailing list for  both  the  OSU SSH Server and FISH.b' >    Send a one-line e-mail message to:t >e# >        MXserver@alpha.sggw.waw.pln >i >    with the message: >  >    	SUBSCRIBE VMS-SSHe >  >a
 >        -Ken    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 14:14:09 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: educational licenses-. Message-ID: <8urhbh$3bm$2@info.service.rug.nl>  B This has been discussed here at length; I don't want to start the  discussion again.   G However, I would like to know, from someone at Compaq or someone else, eI what possible justification there could be, from Compaq's point of view, ,G for the single-user restriction.  Folks with DECcampus don't have this  G worry, since it includes multi-user licenses (they DO benefit from the RH fact that base licenses are included, though).  Without DECcampus, this B means one machine per person, essentially.  While this might be a H desirable goal from the point of view of Compaq, I don't think that the D single-user restriction will aid in achieving this.  People who are I interested in free licenses will probably not be spending a lot of money nG on hardware.  If anything, it will mean FEWER hardware sells, since no rE new people will be able to get VMS experience, and those who already C( have VMS machines already have licenses.  I Again, I don't want a re-hashing of the views; they are clear.  It seems eF everyone here in the newsgroup agrees with me (who says usenet is all C about arguments).  However, I noticed that there was less than the aH normal input from Compaq employees in this thread.  I'm not looking for 9 justification from Compaq; I just want to understand WHY.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:04:02 -0500o5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e3 Subject: Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.w, Message-ID: <8urk7i$2t3c$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  F Ayup.  Just to make life even more exciting, in the next Motif releaseK (1.2-6) I've actually enabled the UNIX pathname logic - so you will be ablecI to define UIDPATH with lovely UNIX syntax like "./foo:/tmp" including theeI internationalization substitution fallbacks.  That is, we will conform to K the Motif spec for all the UID path defaults and fallbacks if we can't find ; the UID file in DECW$USER_DEFAULTS and DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTSc      ? Tim Llewellyn wrote in message <3A0C01D0.C113E121@bbc.co.uk>...y >d >  >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:h > 4 >> In article <8uc3ht$dfb$1@kadath.deep.it>, Cthulhu  <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it> writes:I >> >Now all works fine, except some programs I can found in DECW$EXAMPLE,:2 >> >which halt saying (from DECW$EXAMPLE:DOG.EXE): >> >G >> >X Toolkit Warning: I18NOpenFile: Couldn't open file motifanim.uid -g MrmNOT_FOUND= >> >can't open hierarchy defined by motifanim.uid and dog.uide >> >> $ SET DEFAULT DECW$EXAMPLES: 
 >> $ RUN DOGSo >> >> will work...X >f >Yes, either that or >y* >$ define decw$user_defaults decw$examples >$ run decw$examples:dogsi > L >or edit the DOGS.C in decw$examples, change all the references to UID files by
 >prefixingL >with decw$examples, and rebuild, or copy the relavent UID files to your own >DECW$USER_DEFAULTS  >directory.  >o >" >> >> >> --h? >> Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651r> >> Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888? >> <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.nethK >> A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"  >  >-- 7 >Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs ProjectM1 >MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK. B >Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk > B >I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of >MedAS or the BBC. >O >V   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:37:49 +0100s' From: Theo Jakobus <jakobus@iaf.fhg.de>H3 Subject: Re: Enabling DECwindows on a VAX 4000/300.e* Message-ID: <3A11786D.142737B7@iaf.fhg.de>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > H > Ayup.  Just to make life even more exciting, in the next Motif releaseM > (1.2-6) I've actually enabled the UNIX pathname logic - so you will be ablehK > to define UIDPATH with lovely UNIX syntax like "./foo:/tmp" including the3K > internationalization substitution fallbacks.  That is, we will conform torM > the Motif spec for all the UID path defaults and fallbacks if we can't findn= > the UID file in DECW$USER_DEFAULTS and DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTSt >   C Chrismas is coming, DECwindows Motif gets an update and MOZILLA for  DECwindows is available!!!     Regards, -- i  ; *********************************************************** ; *                                                         * ; *  Theo Jakobus                                           * ; *  Fraunhofer-Institut fuer Angewandte Festkoerperphysik  * ; *  Tullastr. 72                                           * ; *  D-79108 Freiburg                                       *-; *  Germany                                                * ; *  Phone:   +49-(0)761-5159-325                           *o; *  FAX :    +49-(0)761-5159-200                           *i; *  e-mail:  jakobus@iaf.fhg.de                            * ; *  http://www.iaf.fhg.de                                  *a; *                                                         *t; ***********************************************************n   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:44:23 +0200 (MET)h From: ZINSER@sysdev.exchange.de > Subject: Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!!3 Message-ID: <01JWIVTCCZ769EE543@sysdev.exchange.de>a   Hello!  : > From:	IN%"INFO-VAX@MVB.SAIC.COM" 13-NOV-2000 18:49:31.27= > Subj:	RE: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!!   L > Thanks, I've got my rep on the job. Still, it's very dishartning to see anB > entire country ignored.  I can't order ANY products on-line from > www.openvms.compaq.com.  >   8 	Well, make that anybody not living in the US! You also 7 	can't order e.g. with a german address. Certainly not  " 	a good example for E-bussiness...   				Greetings, Martin P Dr. Martin P.J. Zinser                                 zinser@sysdev.exchange.de2 Deutsche Boerse Systems AG                        O Koenigsberger Str. 29                                  Tel: +49 69 2101 5634   eL 60284 Frankfurt                                        FAX: +49 69 2101 3411P Germany                                                Private:  zinser@decus.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:30:53 +0010-% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auo> Subject: Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!!5 Message-ID: <01JWJIGK3X5E006IXO@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Martin Zinser wrotel   >Hello!e >l; >> From:	IN%"INFO-VAX@MVB.SAIC.COM" 13-NOV-2000 18:49:31.27d> >> Subj:	RE: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!! >cM >> Thanks, I've got my rep on the job. Still, it's very dishartning to see aneC >> entire country ignored.  I can't order ANY products on-line fromh >> www.openvms.compaq.com. >> t >o9 >	Well, make that anybody not living in the US! You also l8 >	can't order e.g. with a german address. Certainly not # >	a good example for E-bussiness...B  O Not that this is a book I would really want as bedside reading (it includes NT -N in the title), but I'll second/third trying to acquire anything in this third L world country called Australia.  It seems that anything outside US is third  world.  Q Another (OT) thread, even we third world countries do seem to have better voting   systems.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development, 
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiap   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,-; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.P   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 09:00:19 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) > Subject: Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!!0 Message-ID: <8uquv3$auj$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  \ In article <ZKUP5.1053$Ym.28258@news1.mts.net>, "Mark-Simon Pope" <mpope@bristol.ca> writes:0 >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/dummies_book.html > I >    Compaq is giving this book away for free.  Unless you live in CanadaDL >that is.  Seriously, I called the number at the bottom of the page and theyC >told me I can't have it.  Am I the ONLY Canadian OpenVMS customer?r  3 Hm, got it here in Germany. Just to let you know...m   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanno  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:55:44 +0000d$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk> Subject: Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!!/ Message-ID: <00256997.00368D13.00@quegw01.btyp>   L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    P I asked my line manager at Compaq if he could get me a copy of this book when it first came out..  
 His response;o   "Oh. What's that then?"j   ;^Dd  O I still haven't managed to get one. Perhaps Sue Skonetski can pick this one up?    Steve Spires        9 paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au on 14/11/2000 07:30:53 PMi    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) G From:      paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au, 14 November 2000, 7:30 p.m.l  5 Re: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!!          Martin Zinser wrote    >Hello!  > < >> From:  IN%"INFO-VAX@MVB.SAIC.COM" 13-NOV-2000 18:49:31.27? >> Subj:  RE: FREE OpenVMS Windows NT intergration book *NOT*!!1 >AM >> Thanks, I've got my rep on the job. Still, it's very dishartning to see an C >> entire country ignored.  I can't order ANY products on-line from- >> www.openvms.compaq.com. >> >a; >    Well, make that anybody not living in the US! You also : >    can't order e.g. with a german address. Certainly not& >    a good example for E-bussiness...  N Not that this is a book I would really want as bedside reading (it includes NTM in the title), but I'll second/third trying to acquire anything in this third K world country called Australia.  It seems that anything outside US is thirdr world.  P Another (OT) thread, even we third world countries do seem to have better voting systems.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,l
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,e NSW 2000, Australia    Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,e; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:46:01 -0500m5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> C Subject: Re: Help... Need Software to Logoff users after 20 minutes , Message-ID: <8urmm9$3010$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  L In Motif V1.2-6 (on Alpha-only), I have added the MIT screen saver extensionJ to the client bits, and enabled the code in CDE to handle it.  This allowsJ the screen savers that are now only available to the manual screen lock toD be used as real screen savers, and enabled the automatic screen lock+ functionality available on most UNIX boxes.P  K When this ships, I'll also make available the sources to "deadman" which ismK a little application that can be used in conjunction with the screen savershK to force the session to exit after the screen savers have been active for a, period of time.8   _Fred     / steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote in message ...O >V >7J >I go with Theo on this - I use WATCHER on an AlphaStation and haven't hadL >any problems yet.  The time period is adjustable, as is the eligibility for >getting logged out. >Steve.e >M< >Theo Jakobus (jakobus at iaf dot fhq dot de) wrote/quoted : >>>>Vinnie Saladino wrote: >>C >> Does anyond know the name of the company that sells software fortG >> Open-VMS that monitors users terminals for inactivity, and logs them  >> off after a time limit ?c >>< >>   Please e-mail responces to   vincent.saladino@gsxxi.com
 >> Thanks! >  > F >We use WATCHER on Alpha OpenVMS 7.2-1 systems since years without any >problem and it's free!!!  >s= >http://www2.wku.edu/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?WATCHER<<<- >- >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:59:13 +0000j# From: Christof <brass@infopuls.com>:- Subject: Hobbyist Alpha Kit To Loan In Europe0, Message-ID: <3A10FEE1.AB16A4EB@infopuls.com>   Hi Everybody  6 I try to order the VMS Hobbyist Alpha Kit since end of> September. Sunday, 21st of October, it seemed that the payment@ was achieved but unfortunately AmexCo denied without any further< information as of David's (from Montagar) report. I received@ that piece of information only by now. So I'm where I was end of= September. This is not fun. I personally don't understand why@@ this can't be ordered from my local DEQ representative. Ordering@ the Freeware CDROM was also a hassle and I gave it up. The local= DEQ shop didn't respond the USA web shop is unable to processh orderings from outside the USA.i  6 Is there anybody around in Europe, preferably close to> Switzerland, who has this Hobbyist Alpha Kit and would like to, send it to me? I'll return it within a week.  = I need this POS to upgrade from VMS 6.2 because I have a 20GBu@ Seagate disk which isn't recognised by the system and the vendor@ said that VMS 6.2 only accepts disks until 8GB of capacity. Hope: that's true and upgrading to VMS 7.2 remedies the problem.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 14:07:34 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)1 Subject: Re: Hobbyist Alpha Kit To Loan In Europeo. Message-ID: <8urgv6$3bm$1@info.service.rug.nl>  5 In article <3A10FEE1.AB16A4EB@infopuls.com>, Christof1 <brass@infopuls.com> writes: I  8 > I try to order the VMS Hobbyist Alpha Kit since end of@ > September. Sunday, 21st of October, it seemed that the paymentB > was achieved but unfortunately AmexCo denied without any further> > information as of David's (from Montagar) report. I receivedB > that piece of information only by now. So I'm where I was end of? > September. This is not fun. I personally don't understand whyrB > this can't be ordered from my local DEQ representative. OrderingB > the Freeware CDROM was also a hassle and I gave it up. The local? > DEQ shop didn't respond the USA web shop is unable to process ! > orderings from outside the USA.t  I You can get a hobbyist LICENSE by email by typing your DECUS number into  @ a WWW form.  As far as I know, no-one has any objections to you I borrowing the media from somewhere else.  So if you know a commercial or  E academic institution (or another hobbyist) with the media, you could tI borrow them and install them on your disk.  The media are the same, only h the licenses differ.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:11:04 +0000r, From: Paul BEAUDOIN <paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com>* Subject: Memo:  disk benchmarking software? Message-ID: <80256997.00533522.00@emea-smtp-03.systems.uk.hsbc>e  F I wrote a simple programe for this specific purpose, It relies on RPCC" and is therfore AXP only but will:#      open and write an indexed fileb%      open and write a sequential file  You can:&      set the record size if sequential5      Set the number of records to write in both cases0B      the index file was specific to the test but could be modified   It measures       open and connect time      Total write time.1      Optionaly measures time to write each recordy  C Measurement is to microsecond accuracy and all recording is done inL- mem so minimal overhead (and result skewing).n  D The basic timing routine was seen by a number of VMS engineers and I am assured it is accurate.   If you want a copy - mail me.i   Paul      D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, pleaseiB  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.e  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or'A  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,C>  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofn?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.   sD  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office t=  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly  A  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so r3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.s  D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:29:09 -0500n% From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian>l@ Subject: Re: Network PostScript printer and non PostScript files$ Message-ID: <3a1175c1$1@news.si.com>  F >we do have a lot of PostScript printers (the most one are Canon colorE >printers), which are not supported by DCPS. I am able to use DCPS torB >convert non PostScript files to Postscript and send them to a LPD >queue?   J While DCPS can't do this, GrayMatter's ScriptServer can and does work withK nearly all Postscript compatible printers that exist and can use lpr/lpd orsH raw TCP/IP.  It also supports QMS Crown controllers and HP LaserJets andF JetDirect cards.  It will also handle printers supporting PCL only (no Postscript). --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comnA Smiths Industries, Inc.                   tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventr< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 08:13:06 GMT1 From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@radiolinja.fi>   Subject: Re: Printing blank page2 Message-ID: <01c04e13$0dfccb70$9d08a8c0@rlhkikker>  , Besides what you have already tried defining   UCX$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP>  K did the trick for me. (With 5.x its of course now TCPIP$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP.)I   -Kari-  ? USERNET NEWSGROUP <MARK.MAZURETS@VISTACOM.COM> wrote in articlen <%STP5.15$5i6.391@client>... > On@ > DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 1! > on a AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MBi > running OpenVMS V7.1-1H2 > . > I have a problem with a client, in printing.K > They print out invoices thru an interactive program in which each invoice  isI > its own print job. Every invoice is preceded by a blank page, using andaJ > therefore wasting preprinted invoice stationery. I have read FAQ's, fromF > Ask the Wizard on the OpenVms.digital website, about this problem, howeverNK > none of the solutions worked. I understand that TCP/IP services ver4.2 is H > the latest. What is the significance of ECO 1? Is this the latest ECO?I > I have made sure that the form and queue settings are correct, so as ton notnJ > invite a page overflow problem (which would cause a blank page to follow thel > invoice, anyway).e > Here are the settings:? > Printer queue HKINV3, idle, on ACTIVE::"205.198.253.84:9100",i% > mounted form HKINV3 (stock=DEFAULT)S@ > /AUTOSTART_ON=(ACTIVE::"205.198.253.84:9100") /BASE_PRIORITY=4D > /DEFAULT=(FORM=HKINV3 (stock=DEFAULT)) /LIBRARY=HPDEVCTL Lowercase6 > /OWNER=[1,4] /PROCESSOR=UCX$TELNETSYM /NO_INITIAL_FF2 > /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) >  > Form name:F >                                        Number   ------   ------------ > HKINV3 (stock=DEFAULT)                  101XB > /LENGTH=50 /SETUP=(HKINVBOT) /STOCK=DEFAULT /TRUNCATE /WIDTH=132 > I > I have tried defining a new logical: ucx$telnetsym_suppress_formfeeds 1t@ > I have tried inserting <esc>]vms;2<esc>\ into the reset moduleJ > I have tried bracketing the existing PCL in the setup module with <esc>P andE > <esc>\ > This is the setup: >FL <esc>P<esc>E<esc>&l2A<esc>&l5H<esc>&l1O<esc>&l51P<esc>&l1E<esc>&l60U<esc>&l5  1 > 0F<esc>&l7.72C<esc>(8U<esc>(s0P<esc>(s12H<esc>\  > I > Note: I have since taken out reference to the reset module. I have also I > included /default=nofeed and /no_initial_ff in the queue settings. This G > resulted in blank pages being preceded by an invoice, but the printers pullsr: > from the plain paper tray, rather than using stationery.F > I have also noted, that, with the current settings, if I print out a file, 3rJ > times in quick succession, then only the first job is preceded by  blank > page.2I > The printer itself does not appear to have any settings associated with  the J > blank pages, and the same thing happens on another printer as well. Both are: > HP5000's..F > The spool files themselves do not have any formfeed or other control! > characters to throw a new page.*) > I appreciate any input on this problem.*	 > Thanks.  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:25:31 GMTc From: richard_maher@my-deja.comt- Subject: Reinventing the wheel :-( Just Do It7) Message-ID: <8ur7f7$o9d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hi,N  @ Next contestant - Sybil Fawlty from Torquay, special subject the bleedin' obvious.n  + > 2. let VMS know just what you want to do.m  1 http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/rfc/rfc2372.txt , (Please see the example API in the appendix)  %            or this one's got pictureso  > http://microsoft.com/winme/MITTs/Transactions/html/default.htm  F Please read the above if only to understand the concept of a "two-pipeF strategy". NB:***It is this that VMS engineering seeks to deny you.***F Phrases like "We'd like to make the interface transparent." are reallyG euphemisms for "Wrap it all up in a one-pipe cloak so that they have to ) use our software on client _and_ server".   C Phase one: Bricks and Mortar. All you need to deliver is a tip$pull4D routine! If this can be achieved with a modified $start_branchw thenG all the better. I understand that this will restrict us to starting the,F txn on another TIP compatible node but hey it's a start and will solveE the majority of user requirements with minimal effort. Let's face it.D@ It's been spec'd for you, and ACMSxp have already ironed out anyD creases in the TIP protocol and will be a cornucopia of examples forD extracting the TIP URL from MTS. I can't see it taking longer than 3H months (including testing and shipping). If you could include a tip$push9 () routine at the same time then that would be fantastic.N  ? Obviously you'd have to make room for the TIP URL in the DECdtmeG transaction log file and upgrade LMCP. (After 10 years it's at V1.1 :-).E Potentially the biggest change is making DECdtm TCP/IP compatible butsE it is my understanding that most, if not all, of this work is already( done.u   What will it let us do?t  G 1) You will be able to start an MTS transaction against an Oracle8i (or # SQLserver or both) database on W2K.h  = 2) Obtain the transaction URL via DtcGetTransactionManagerEx.t  E 3) Using whatever method *you* like (for example Socket Send() or XML,F page) send the URL to your VMS node along with the data to be updated.  + 4) On VMS, Call TIP$PULL(in: URL, out: TID)   F 5) Normal service is resumed. Pass the DECdtm TID to your Rdb/RMS/DBMS< updates. Note: W2K has had a Sea Change back to AsynchronousE services!!! This could provide a great opportunity for parallelism in  Oracle8i/Rdb I/O.m  F In a nutshell, the updates to all databases are now enshrined with theG ACID properties of a true 2PC. Now if you don't get your jollies out ofn, that then you're simply sick of life itself!  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------   The story so far:-  F 1) Keith B Evans (The guy that wrote the book on TIP) works for CompaqA (Tandem). I think he'd be someone worth talking to when trying touD establish future directions with TIP. Transport Layer Security (TLS) for encryption?n  G 2) ACMSxp already talks TIP and is available *now* and is being used inrF at least one customer site. Unfortunately in the ACMSxp implementationE the the engineers have cloaked the beauty and openess of the two-pipe-F strategy in a single pipe. But now realize the error of their ways andD agree that TIP belongs in DECdtm. If I was implementing TIP on VMS I) would certainly call on their experience.1  * 3) Tandem NonStop TM/MP already talks TIP.  F 4) Windows2000 is available *now* which, in addition to COM+, providesA a SDK for obtaining a transaction URL. DtcGetTransactionManagerExmB (IDispenserManager, GetDispenserManager, IID_ITipTransaction) OnceD you've obtained the TIP URL you can send it over the network throughD your TCP/IP socket, or whatever flavour of second pipe you like, andG then call TIP$PULL() or a modified version of $start_branchw. This will F return a DECdtm Transaction Identifier / Branch Identifier that can be passed to Rdb, RMS or DBMS.   D 5) XA functionality is a nice to have but is of little use with Rdb,E DBMS or RMS but would obviously be useful for Rdb/VMS<->Oracle/* 2PC.eG As it is my understanding that resource managers/database vendors would.G have to modify and certify their code as DECdtm/XA compatible on VMS, IAF believe that any XA functionality should be prioritised down the list.A (I'm thinking of the AX_* routines in sys$help:xa_profile.txt. IneD particular AX_BIND_DECDTM. I can't see Oracle rushing to incorporateC this.) Whereas TIP requires *NO CHANGE* to Rdb/RMS/DBMS to get them- talking to the outside world!!!E  D 6) Once Tip$pull and Tip$push are available then DCE/RPC can look at@ transactional RPC and COM can be upgraded to COM+. NB: It is notG DECdtm's responsibility/budget to upgrade COM. They didn't seem to needwG DECdtm to get authenticated COM. But then again I wish someone else hadn* gotten control of External Authentication.  C 7) Can someone explain to me my VMS engineering has to reinvent the.E wheel here? And how a twelve month (being generous) delay can be soldtB to customers as "Well, we wouldn't want a knee jerk reaction wouldF we?" "What we need is someone who can spin and run interference for usD while RTR is getting established." "I've got it! A feasibility study? with broad terms of reference like Heterogeneous Computing - Do G Transactions Have a Place? If only we can find someone with credibility E then we could milk it for about 12 months." "Has anyone seen Rodger?"-   Regards Richard Maher0    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy."   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 11:03:00 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER); Subject: Re: Research Systems Inc. dropping support for VMS * Message-ID: <3a110dd4$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  g In article <3A1082E9.70517085@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  >Jan Vorbrueggen wrote:1H >> Why - is there any other meaning than "Digital Network Architecture"? >c >Deoxyribonucleic acid?t   I think Jan forgot the smiley.  G btw: In german the word is "Desoxyribo Nuclein Sure" in short DNS :-))v  K IIRC, DNA is now used by the borgs, too: Distributed Network Architecture ?d   -- t< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888o< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:32:41 -0500t. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>> Subject: Re: Resurrecting an Alphastation 200/250: help needed+ Message-ID: <8urls4$3aq$1@bob.news.rcn.net>i   Hello --  J This is of not much help, but the only real service manual I could find is for theuD Personal Workstation...i.e., the MIATA (not suprising).  The owner'sB guide for the AS200 (which I have) does not have much information.  A Anyway, the AS200 owner's guide and the MIATA service book do noty list the FD error code.a  J There is also not a 3-1-3 beep code; there is a 1-3-3 which indicates thatI there no memory was found (i.e., at least 2 MB of good memory), or memorys7 was found but failed testing so was marked unavailable.   E There is also a 3-3-1 beep code that indicates that the DROM code (?)  detectedC a hardware failure, and to refer to the LEDs for the exact problem.   H I have an HTML copy of the (MIATA) manual I can send to you if you wish.   Ken Randell     ; Roy Omond wrote in message <3A0FFE55.E3423B24@Omond.Net>...r >Gentle people,  >hF >I have recently been donated a "dead" Alphastation 200 (it might be a >250)eG >which was "killed" when someone interrupted a firmware update.  I haveo% >no graphics monitor for this system.e >tD >I have generated a failsafe loader floppy with the latest firmware. >nF >I have (tried) to reset the NVRAM by disconnecting the button batteryE >in the hope that the machine would set the console to serial (rathere >than graphics). > A >When powering on, I get the beep code (3 beeps, pause, 3 beeps), ; >and the LEDs indicate 1111 1101 (hex FD), and then nothingA% >(doesn't seem to access the floppy)., >e? >I am no longer on contract with Compaq, so I have no access tod* >internal stuff (like prosic.cxo.dec.com). >i/ >Anyone able to suggest what I should do next ?M >. >Thanks in advance,G > 
 >Roy Omond >Blue Bubble Ltd.i >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 09:52:36 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>h Subject: Re: RWASTH Message-ID: <y47l67ndez.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   I > Does RWAST mean that the process is waiting for an IO to complete while  > in AST mode ?0   Not really.n   <LECTURE_MODE>L The name RWAST is more of a misnomer than anything else - it's the catch-allI conidition and just has one state because the scheduler handles all thesee@ conditions the same. In fact, there are two distinct subclasses:  J - PCB+PCB$L_EFWAITMASK (or somesuch) is <0, i.e., a system space address. F   Then, this is the address of a mutex the process is waiting for. TheJ   scheduler makes all RWAST computable when a mutex is released because of   this.   M - The cell contains a (small) positive number. This contains the reason for aaN   resource wait, the symbolic names to be found in the $RSNDEF macro. Includes7   things such as waiting for BYTLIM, FILLM, and so on. a   </LECTURE_MODE>C  L See your current copy of I&DS for details and the mistakes wetware makes due to decay with time.t   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:40:39 GMTa1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>w Subject: Re: RWAST2 Message-ID: <3A115E65.31BC6111@clarityconnect.com>  = For contracted customers, DSNlink has an excellent article on-H troubleshooting RWAST - [OpenVMS] How To Troubleshoot A Process In RWAST On VAX or Alphae   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Martin Francois wrote: > >s$ > > I have a process in RWAST state. > > How can I stop it ?????r >  > 1. RebootrF > 2. Spend some quality time with SDA (ANALYZE/SYSTEM) and try to find> > what it's waiting for, then try to find a way to deliver it. >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsr > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. > B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.i   -- uD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:41:06 +0100s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>u7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailedo( Message-ID: <3A10EC91.15E9592@gtech.com>   andrew harrison wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote: > > andrew harrison wrote:L > > I do not exactly recall any factual errors in Robs psotings. I recall at	 > > least 3 > > two major factual errors in your postings here.  > >r > < > Your recollection is not as good as Robs who does remember > the factual errors.u >  > Spiralog,h > Galaxies,nI > Sybase and other ISV's being interested in OpenVMS (because of Galaxies  > according to Rob)sH > WildFire availability and capabilities and general hype. (where is theF > 128 CPU machine, where is its performance lead, why are Sun/IBM/HP's2 > asses not being whipped, another Rob prediction)$ > 21264 availability and performance   ????  B Can this be translated to "I Andrew Harrison works in marketing" ?   This is a technical forum !s  G Rob does not work for Compaq (or Sybase). Whatever he f.ex. posts about*E Sybase interest in Galaxy are not fact - it is his evaluation. He can0B not be factual wrong about that (unless he claimed that a specificE agreement has been signed between Compaq nd Sybase, what he did not).1F You may claim that he has been optimistic in his speculation about the: future for VMS (and I am sure he will be proud of that !).  1 Your sense of what is fact is very non-technical.S  E > eBays 22 hour outage FUD (cut and paste difficulties apparently andc: > not a factual error, so his GUI made the error for him).? > Numerous errors on the Sun eCache issue (cache scrubber etc),u  > As long as Ebay does not publicise a statement explaining what hardware/softwarea7 was responsible, then Robs guess is as good as anyones.t   ? > The list is pretty endless and remember some of these are bign? > subjects for example WildFire where Rob got nearly everything B > about the machines from the number of CPU's to the availability,4 > performance, competitiveness etc completely wrong.  H Arnes rule to distinguish between technical people and marekting people:F Do they consider information about systems not shipping yet for fact ?" Yes => marketing. No => technical.  B Regarding the specifics: I have not seen any statement from CompaqG saying that they will not deliver systems >32 CPU's. They are obviously < not available now. Availability ? I think I have heard about@ computer systems being delayed before ! Competitiveness ? A wiseD man once said "It is difficult to predict - especially the future!".9 Robs guess is as good as anyones. But it i still a guess./   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:21:31 +0100M/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>o7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailede7 Message-ID: <009F31B5.80BC1FAE.20@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>    Andrew Harrison Writes:   > suninthefun@my-deja.com wrote: > >  > > Andrew,r > > J > > Will you just admit that the real problem is Sun does not have system-D > > wide ECC memory and that is why Sun customers are having so many9 > > failures?  256MB of non-ECC L2 cache is unacceptable.r > >  > I > ECC would help but we are getting single and Multi-bit errors and many  H > people would not consider multi-bit ECC for the whole cache as being a > reasonable proposition.g  H This is about the only bit of the whole FUD-slinging saga that I'm still finding interesting.  I Parity on cache is adequate if and only if cache errors are both rare AND0L UNCORRELATED. If the latter is true and the chance of a single-bit error is K (say) 1E-8 (rather high?), then the chance of a double-bit error (one that I= parity won't spot) is 1E-16. In human terms, it won't happen.Y   > C > Not everyone agrees on the necessity of having ECC for the whole  A > of the cache either provide you can reload the offending block.-  I Following from the above, if you omit ECC then you have to be pretty damn/J certain that there are no sources of correlated transient errors. AlthoughI a systematic approach to engineering a cache can minimise that risk, and sF margined testing of prototypes over some reasonable period can provideF evidence that such failures are not endemic, I would have thought thatF considerations of data integrity make ECC very desirable. Not in orderH to correct single-bit errors, but to catch the vast majority of two- andF even-bit errors that parity would miss. (Once caught, reload from main memory to recover).   E Accepting bad data out of the cache leads to data-corruption.  SystemeI crashes are by no means the worst that this can lead to! Omitting ECC mayrE make your system go faster, but it's the equivalent of mountaineeringaF without a safety rope. This appears to be something that Sun and their customers are now discovering.  > yB > Despite Robs FUD the fact is that people who have installed the B > cache scrubber and either changed to the current SRAM or changedA > the server environment or both have seen very big reductions inhC > failure rates. In a couple of customers I know of in the UK this r > has resulted in 0 failures.c > I Well, yes, so what? The fragility of the underlying design may have been sF exposed in this case by a batch of dud chips. But the problem remains,E absent ECC an even-bit error will get accepted as good data, and thene; the best you can hope for is an inexplicable system crash. 7  I You're AOK up a mountain without a safety rope, right up until the momenti7 that you aren't, and then it may well be too damn late.o   	Yours,.
 		Nigel Arnotu- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   o  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:09:39 -0500o5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed", Message-ID: <8uro2j$316v$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  J Thank you for the best post in this thread.  It comes back to the originalK point, without the attempt to sidetrack the issue into Rob's enthusiasm foro Compaq and OpenVMS.t  J The fact is, for a large server, the cache system was designed for a smallK workstation.  Nice performance, bad reliability.  Cache scrubbing and othertL band-aid approaches can reduce the MTBF somewhat, but moving from weekly, toH every few months doesn't do much for a customer who is expecting 99.9999 uptime.r      K Nigel Arnot wrote in message <009F31B5.80BC1FAE.20@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>...  >Andrew Harrison Writes:! >> suninthefun@my-deja.com wrote:d >> > >> > Andrew, >> >K >> > Will you just admit that the real problem is Sun does not have system-fE >> > wide ECC memory and that is why Sun customers are having so many : >> > failures?  256MB of non-ECC L2 cache is unacceptable. >> > >>I >> ECC would help but we are getting single and Multi-bit errors and manyoI >> people would not consider multi-bit ECC for the whole cache as being a  >> reasonable proposition. >eI >This is about the only bit of the whole FUD-slinging saga that I'm stilly >finding interesting.t >fJ >Parity on cache is adequate if and only if cache errors are both rare ANDL >UNCORRELATED. If the latter is true and the chance of a single-bit error isK >(say) 1E-8 (rather high?), then the chance of a double-bit error (one thatn> >parity won't spot) is 1E-16. In human terms, it won't happen. >p >>C >> Not everyone agrees on the necessity of having ECC for the wholetB >> of the cache either provide you can reload the offending block. > J >Following from the above, if you omit ECC then you have to be pretty damnK >certain that there are no sources of correlated transient errors. AlthoughcI >a systematic approach to engineering a cache can minimise that risk, and G >margined testing of prototypes over some reasonable period can provideCG >evidence that such failures are not endemic, I would have thought thathG >considerations of data integrity make ECC very desirable. Not in order-I >to correct single-bit errors, but to catch the vast majority of two- andfG >even-bit errors that parity would miss. (Once caught, reload from maino >memory to recover). >eF >Accepting bad data out of the cache leads to data-corruption.  SystemJ >crashes are by no means the worst that this can lead to! Omitting ECC mayF >make your system go faster, but it's the equivalent of mountaineeringG >without a safety rope. This appears to be something that Sun and theirn >customers are now discovering.n > >nB >> Despite Robs FUD the fact is that people who have installed theC >> cache scrubber and either changed to the current SRAM or changediB >> the server environment or both have seen very big reductions inC >> failure rates. In a couple of customers I know of in the UK thisv >> has resulted in 0 failures. >>I >Well, yes, so what? The fragility of the underlying design may have beenaG >exposed in this case by a batch of dud chips. But the problem remains,eF >absent ECC an even-bit error will get accepted as good data, and then; >the best you can hope for is an inexplicable system crash.k >aJ >You're AOK up a mountain without a safety rope, right up until the moment8 >that you aren't, and then it may well be too damn late. >t > Yours,
 > Nigel Arnot, > NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK >n7 > "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."B >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:25:06 +0000m0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailedC* Message-ID: <3A116762.E4B08644@uk.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > =    > andrew harrison wrote: > > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > > > andrew harrison wrote:J > > > I do not exactly recall any factual errors in Robs psotings. I reca= ll ath > > > leastT5 > > > two major factual errors in your postings here.a > > >o > >o> > > Your recollection is not as good as Robs who does remember > > the factual errors.  > >a
 > > Spiralog, 
 > > Galaxies,aJ > > Sybase and other ISV's being interested in OpenVMS (because of Galaxi= es > > according to Rob)EJ > > WildFire availability and capabilities and general hype. (where is th= ecH > > 128 CPU machine, where is its performance lead, why are Sun/IBM/HP's4 > > asses not being whipped, another Rob prediction)& > > 21264 availability and performance > =s   > ???? > =e  D > Can this be translated to "I Andrew Harrison works in marketing" ? > =i   > This is a technical forum !t > =e  J > Rob does not work for Compaq (or Sybase). Whatever he f.ex. posts about=  G > Sybase interest in Galaxy are not fact - it is his evaluation. He canaD > not be factual wrong about that (unless he claimed that a specificG > agreement has been signed between Compaq nd Sybase, what he did not).eH > You may claim that he has been optimistic in his speculation about the< > future for VMS (and I am sure he will be proud of that !). > =0  > Arne lets just choose Sybase because it is a great example and its first of a long list.o  > Rob said that Sybase were very interested in OpenVMS because =  < of Galaxies and that they had made public statements to this effect.e  < At the time he made this post they had not made any public =  ; statements about OpenVMS/Galaxies, they subsequently made =c  : no public statements of interest (so Rob did not just jumpC the gun) and finally they dropped the OS. How factually incorrect =s  A do you want to be, a public statement that never was supposedly =d  ; containing a statement of support which also did not exist.     3 > Your sense of what is fact is very non-technical.m > =g    
 See above.  G > > eBays 22 hour outage FUD (cut and paste difficulties apparently and < > > not a factual error, so his GUI made the error for him).A > > Numerous errors on the Sun eCache issue (cache scrubber etc),0 > =:  @ > As long as Ebay does not publicise a statement explaining what > hardware/softwaren9 > was responsible, then Robs guess is as good as anyones.$ > =.  A > > The list is pretty endless and remember some of these are bigrA > > subjects for example WildFire where Rob got nearly everything.D > > about the machines from the number of CPU's to the availability,6 > > performance, competitiveness etc completely wrong. > =S  J > Arnes rule to distinguish between technical people and marekting people= : H > Do they consider information about systems not shipping yet for fact ?( > Yes =3D> marketing. No =3D> technical. > =B    @ Interesting, the inescapable conclusion you then have to reach =  ? is that Rob is in fact a marketeer and not technical. I don't =t  ( know if this will please him or not !!!!   Regardsn Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architectm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:35:00 +0100s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>47 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailedt) Message-ID: <3A1177C3.D17CE3A7@gtech.com>i   andrew harrison wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote:K > > Rob does not work for Compaq (or Sybase). Whatever he f.ex. posts about I > > Sybase interest in Galaxy are not fact - it is his evaluation. He canrF > > not be factual wrong about that (unless he claimed that a specificI > > agreement has been signed between Compaq nd Sybase, what he did not).rJ > > You may claim that he has been optimistic in his speculation about the> > > future for VMS (and I am sure he will be proud of that !).  @ > Arne lets just choose Sybase because it is a great example and > its first of a long list.C > > > Rob said that Sybase were very interested in OpenVMS because> > of Galaxies and that they had made public statements to this	 > effect.n > < > At the time he made this post they had not made any public; > statements about OpenVMS/Galaxies, they subsequently made < > no public statements of interest (so Rob did not just jumpC > the gun) and finally they dropped the OS. How factually incorrectnA > do you want to be, a public statement that never was supposedly.= > containing a statement of support which also did not exist.o  E Could you please post the article, because I can not find such a postMB at deja.com (searched for sybase /group=comp.os.vms /author=Rob) ?  e Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:59:13 -0500h? From: "Gibson, Richard (GEA, 073565)" <DICK.GIBSON@APPL.GE.COM>s% Subject: sharing global data on AlphasK Message-ID: <AF25AED68D4ED311A4A700608C14E5A6021CCD5E@ap3expr2.appl.ge.com>m  L On the VAX 4100 - VMS ver 5.5-1, I have detached processes running that eachK read/write data in a shared area. I amtrying to convert this application tooI an Alpha/DS10 OpenVMS ver 7.2-1. When I install the global section on theiI Alpha I get "No global sections created" and the program that initializesgK the global data doesn't work - the data isn't actually placed in the global B area. Here's the global definition and the compile/link (very much simplified)J!         blockdata PQA_SHARED_DATA-> c       This program creates the PQA_DATA shared data section.         integer ivalues(10)          common/sysvar/ ivalues          end	 $set veriy $ FORTRAN/EXTEND PQA_DATAt' $ link/share=pqa_data/map/full pqa_datat* ******************************************  Here'e the initializing program:        program sysvar_init$ c initialize the shared data section         integer ivalues(10)          common/sysvar/ ivalues       type *,ivalues       do i=1,10R        ivalues(i)=im       enddoe       type *,ivalues         end             	 $set verit $ FORTRAN/EXTEND SYSVAR_INIT# $ link sysvar_init,sys$input/option. pqa_data/share1 *************************************************f& Here's how ishared area  is installed: $ins:=$sys$system:installw $disk="pqa$disk:[pqa]" $ins/comm remove 'disk''p1'l, $ins/comm create 'disk''p1'/open/share/write $ins/comm list 'disk''p1'/fu# $define/group/nolog 'p1' 'disk''p1'f  J Obviously its Fortran.  I have tried the Fortran switches that seemed likeF might apply, read the migrating document, fortran manual, FAQ, but I'm* missing something.  What do I need to do?? E-Mail: dick.gibson@appl.ge.como fone (502) 452-7021o   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 14:19:11 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>e) Subject: Re: sharing global data on AlpharH Message-ID: <y466lq3d4g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  M The linker manual has some things to say, and you have to make sure that your N common is page-aligned for it to work. But the whole approach isn't the way toJ go (even on the VAX) - use a global section explicitly. There are examples6 around in SYS$EXAMPLES, I believe, and on the website.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:16:37 -0000h* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>) Subject: Re: sharing global data on Alphar+ Message-ID: <8urdvl$ieu@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>o  J "Gibson, Richard (GEA, 073565)" <DICK.GIBSON@APPL.GE.COM> wrote in messageE news:AF25AED68D4ED311A4A700608C14E5A6021CCD5E@ap3expr2.appl.ge.com...u  L > Obviously its Fortran.  I have tried the Fortran switches that seemed likeH > might apply, read the migrating document, fortran manual, FAQ, but I'm, > missing something.  What do I need to do??  P Check the FAQ again: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html#PROG7   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 08:48:41 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)) Subject: Re: sharing global data on Alphae+ Message-ID: <Uafwf7Hd2q9Z@eisner.decus.org>i   In article <AF25AED68D4ED311A4A700608C14E5A6021CCD5E@ap3expr2.appl.ge.com>, "Gibson, Richard (GEA, 073565)" <DICK.GIBSON@APPL.GE.COM> writes:o  % > $ link sysvar_init,sys$input/optionn > pqa_data/share  H Add the following in an options file for ALL the LINKs, Fortran on AlphaB does not default common blocks to shared psects like it used to on VAXen.   psect_attr=sysvar,shrb  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationo= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingr   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:14:31 GMTl From: richard_maher@my-deja.comi) Subject: Re: sharing global data on Alphat) Message-ID: <8urksf$2or$1@nnrp1.deja.com>m   Hi,g  F If this is Alpha then use the linker Symbol_vector options rather than the psect_attr stuff.g  G Also I believe that the Alpha/compiler standard is Octaword aligned andtD not page aligned. One thing to look out for is the compiler roundingF storage upto units divisible by 8. (IE: I think different sized PSECTsG will still MAP/OVERLAY. MACRO lets you have a 10 byte PSECT, COBOL does  not)  G But the reason I am reply to your post is that I would like you to makeiB use of the MACRO compile time storage initialization capabilities.< COBOL (and by the looks FORTRAN) won't let you initialize an> EXTERNAL/COMMON variable, but MACRO will. .LONG 0, .BYTE 1,2,3  D The days of engineering trying to put people off MACRO on Alpha have: long since gone. They know how bad C is as well as you do.   Regards Richard Maher.    
 In article@ <AF25AED68D4ED311A4A700608C14E5A6021CCD5E@ap3expr2.appl.ge.com>,B   "Gibson, Richard (GEA, 073565)" <DICK.GIBSON@APPL.GE.COM> wrote:D > On the VAX 4100 - VMS ver 5.5-1, I have detached processes running	 that eacht> > read/write data in a shared area. I amtrying to convert this application toG > an Alpha/DS10 OpenVMS ver 7.2-1. When I install the global section onh theb? > Alpha I get "No global sections created" and the program thato initializesUF > the global data doesn't work - the data isn't actually placed in the globalD > area. Here's the global definition and the compile/link (very much
 > simplified)u# >         blockdata PQA_SHARED_DATAr@ > c       This program creates the PQA_DATA shared data section. >         integer ivalues(10)s  >         common/sysvar/ ivalues >          end > $set veriv > $ FORTRAN/EXTEND PQA_DATAy) > $ link/share=pqa_data/map/full pqa_datac, > ******************************************" > Here'e the initializing program: >        program sysvar_init& > c initialize the shared data section >         integer ivalues(10)r  >         common/sysvar/ ivalues >       type *,ivalues >       do i=1,10n >        ivalues(i)=i 
 >       enddog >       type *,ivalues
 >         endi > $set verie > $ FORTRAN/EXTEND SYSVAR_INIT% > $ link sysvar_init,sys$input/optiont > pqa_data/share3 > *************************************************r( > Here's how ishared area  is installed: > $ins:=$sys$system:installa > $disk="pqa$disk:[pqa]" > $ins/comm remove 'disk''p1' . > $ins/comm create 'disk''p1'/open/share/write > $ins/comm list 'disk''p1'/fu% > $define/group/nolog 'p1' 'disk''p1'e >rG > Obviously its Fortran.  I have tried the Fortran switches that seemedu likeH > might apply, read the migrating document, fortran manual, FAQ, but I'm, > missing something.  What do I need to do??! > E-Mail: dick.gibson@appl.ge.comr > fone (502) 452-7021o >F >t    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:04:17 +0000e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laughern* Message-ID: <3A116281.77A9A56F@uk.sun.com>   Peter Weaver wrote:e > ? > "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messagex& > news:3A0C1A11.E33D0A20@uk.sun.com... > >...D > > Its not the users directly that cause the problem, but the users
 > > worldwidedF > > update the master Seibel database, all the databases worldwide are > keptC > > syncronised using a replication mechnism provided by the Seibelh > > application. > > D > > So a seibel user in Tokyo updating a database is also updating a > > databaseF > > in London, Frankfurt etc while the users that access these systems > are. > > all logged out and asleep. > > C > > Turning off a node  even if it has no users attached to it alsoe > stopst > > thec? > > replication from running. While this isn't an unrecoverable  > situation it > > isA > > downtime for the replication server and can cause quite a big 	 > impact.a > > .. > E > Andrew, you should have used a VMS cluster. Then you could turn offtC > the node and kept the replication running on the other node. In a,F > properly configured cluster with a decent database like RDB you tell@ > RDB on one node to shut itself down after the last transaction= > conpletes and not to accept any new transactions. Once thatvF > transaction completes you do wahtever work you need to do and reboot > the node.  > A That would be fine if the whole of the replication server processu? ran on UNIX (or VMS) it however does not, part of it runs on NTe% making it too complicated to migrate.   B This will change as Seibel have ported the whole of Seibel to UNIXC but my customer does not have that version which was not available    when they rolled out the system.     Regardsa Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 10:11:10 +0100G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> # Subject: Re: System disk filling upoH Message-ID: <y44s1aor4h.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ' paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:n  I > >Quotas on the system disk are generally not recommended. The reason ise* > >because of the experience you just had.H > I don't use them myself, but you could give the SYSTEM account a quot < > bigger than or as big as the number of blocks on the disk.  N That would work if ERRFMT were running as [SYSTEM]. But for obscure historical0 reasons, it doesn't - it runs under [1,3], IIRC.   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 09:12:09 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)c# Subject: Re: System disk filling upt0 Message-ID: <8uqvl9$auj$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  g In article <3A107FB4.12BB3671@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  >Christoph Gartmann wrote:J >> under OpenVMS 7.1-2 I noticed today that the system disk is filling up.K >> I have diskquota enabled and today the ERRFMT process crashed because itt >> had no disk quota. [snip] >oG >Quotas on the system disk are generally not recommended. The reason ism( >because of the experience you just had.  I Guess what the experience would have been if the system disk actually hadbK filled up? From time to time I discovered similar events because of a dyingeI ERRFMT. Most system processes have EXQUOTA and continue to work and it isoL up to ERRFMT to die. It does this very nicely be sending an e-mail to SYSTEML and writing to OPERATOR.LOG why it died and how to restart it. Then you have/ still time and space left to solve the problem.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmannr  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:13:05 -0500o, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com># Subject: Re: System disk filling upe> Message-ID: <hshubs-D279EF.08130514112000@news.mindspring.com>  J In article <8uqvl9$auj$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de  wrote:  8 >It does this very nicely be sending an e-mail to SYSTEMM >and writing to OPERATOR.LOG why it died and how to restart it. Then you havee0 >still time and space left to solve the problem.  ( How does it do this if the disk is full? --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 15:15:04 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)a# Subject: Re: System disk filling up 0 Message-ID: <8urkto$jb4$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  m In article <hshubs-D279EF.08130514112000@news.mindspring.com>, Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> writes:eK >In article <8uqvl9$auj$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de a >wrote:s >d9 >>It does this very nicely be sending an e-mail to SYSTEMeN >>and writing to OPERATOR.LOG why it died and how to restart it. Then you have1 >>still time and space left to solve the problem.r >m) >How does it do this if the disk is full?   O That is why I enable quotas. And the SYSTEM account gets less quotas than thereaK is space available. Once the disksquota limit is filled up ERRFMT exits via. the above prozedure.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanna  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:02:14 GMTp From: a_haines@my-deja.com& Subject: Re: Systemwide resource locks) Message-ID: <8urd4j$s50$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s  2 In article <3A0C2A8E.45E449E0@clarityconnect.com>,4   "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote:F > Why?  The only overhead for a resource that will only be used on oneA > node may be a RSB on the lock director.  If the resource is notl declaredH > on another nodes in the cluster then they will not allocate an RSB forH > it and will not be involved.  Even if this node has LOCKDIRWT set to 0C > it will be the lock master as long as it is the only node with an D > interest in the resource.  So again I ask why would a 'system wide only'r > resource be needed?u  E Say I have processes A and B on NODE1 and processes X and Y on NODE2.sD If the resource is cluster wide then process X would have to wait ifF process A (on the other node) took out an exclusive lock. I want A andE B to coordinate (between themselves) access to a system wide resourceFF on NODE1. Meanwhile, X and Y coordinate (between themselves) access to  a system wide resource on NODE2.  C I have simply included the node name (from $GETSYI) in the resourceeG name and the problem is solved. My original request just asked if there @ was a recognised 'official' way to restrict the resource/lock to individual nodes in a cluster.   >  > a_haines@my-deja.com wrote:n > >e? > > When taking out a new lock on a resource (with $enqw) is its possible tor7 > > make the lock system wide rather than cluster wide?  > >eF > > I have a resource that is only specific to the system and requires> > > processes on that system to synchronise access to it. But, processes onG > > another system in the cluster only only need to synchronise betweenR/ > > themselves for the resource on that system.e > >-E > > I can of course include the node name in the resource name, but Ij don'ttD > > want to do that if there is already some 'not cluster wide' flag that I > > can set. > >r* > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy.o >e > --F > Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY. > 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fano- > 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 ors so. > 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               - >n    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:26:18 GMTt From: richard_maher@my-deja.comr& Subject: Re: Systemwide resource locks) Message-ID: <8urlig$3kg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>t   Hi,s  G As I stated previously I don't know of a way to achieve what you'd like @ to do without using scsnode as part of a parent resource name orG employing a seperate resource domain. (What exactly is wrong with theseh	 methods?)f  : > My original request just asked if there was a recognised< > 'official' way to restrict the resource/lock to individual > nodes in a cluster.o  0 I consider both of the above methods 'official'.  E > I have simply included the node name (from $GETSYI) in the resources! > name and the problem is solved.m  F I'm sure you are already doing so but for any young players out there,D may I suggest prepending/appending your facility code to your parent) resource name along with the scsnodename.g   Regards Richard Maher.  ) In article <8urd4j$s50$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,C   a_haines@my-deja.com wrote:n >e >X4 > In article <3A0C2A8E.45E449E0@clarityconnect.com>,6 >   "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote:H > > Why?  The only overhead for a resource that will only be used on oneC > > node may be a RSB on the lock director.  If the resource is not 
 > declaredF > > on another nodes in the cluster then they will not allocate an RSB for E > > it and will not be involved.  Even if this node has LOCKDIRWT sett to 0E > > it will be the lock master as long as it is the only node with an F > > interest in the resource.  So again I ask why would a 'system wide > only'v > > resource be needed?n >sG > Say I have processes A and B on NODE1 and processes X and Y on NODE2.kF > If the resource is cluster wide then process X would have to wait ifH > process A (on the other node) took out an exclusive lock. I want A andG > B to coordinate (between themselves) access to a system wide resourceoH > on NODE1. Meanwhile, X and Y coordinate (between themselves) access to" > a system wide resource on NODE2. >aE > I have simply included the node name (from $GETSYI) in the resourceTC > name and the problem is solved. My original request just asked if* there*B > was a recognised 'official' way to restrict the resource/lock to  > individual nodes in a cluster. >p > >s > > a_haines@my-deja.com wrote:' > > >iA > > > When taking out a new lock on a resource (with $enqw) is it1
 > possible tor9 > > > make the lock system wide rather than cluster wide?e > > >tH > > > I have a resource that is only specific to the system and requires@ > > > processes on that system to synchronise access to it. But, > processes onA > > > another system in the cluster only only need to synchronise- between-1 > > > themselves for the resource on that system.  > > >bG > > > I can of course include the node name in the resource name, but Is > don'toF > > > want to do that if there is already some 'not cluster wide' flag > that I > > > can set. > > >r, > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy.  > >n > > --; > > Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley -  Lockwood, NY0 > > 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine > fanx/ > > 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or  > so0 > > 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               - > >e >u( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.d >r    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:10:10 GMTD1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>A& Subject: Re: Systemwide resource locks2 Message-ID: <3A116550.B73B3AFB@clarityconnect.com>  A OK the other way tyo do this is to make sure the processes on the G different systems are not in the same UIC group and do not use the flag.E LCK$M_SYSTEM in SYS$ENQ{W} call.  Resource names are qualified at thepA group UIC level if you do not set them as a system wide (and thus-B cluster wide) so creating resource FOOBAR under UIC 220 would be a- different resource that FOOBAR under UIC 230.a   a_haines@my-deja.com wrote:f > 4 > In article <3A0C2A8E.45E449E0@clarityconnect.com>,6 >   "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote:H > > Why?  The only overhead for a resource that will only be used on oneC > > node may be a RSB on the lock director.  If the resource is nota
 > declaredJ > > on another nodes in the cluster then they will not allocate an RSB forJ > > it and will not be involved.  Even if this node has LOCKDIRWT set to 0E > > it will be the lock master as long as it is the only node with anhF > > interest in the resource.  So again I ask why would a 'system wide > only'r > > resource be needed?  > G > Say I have processes A and B on NODE1 and processes X and Y on NODE2.pF > If the resource is cluster wide then process X would have to wait ifH > process A (on the other node) took out an exclusive lock. I want A andG > B to coordinate (between themselves) access to a system wide resourceiH > on NODE1. Meanwhile, X and Y coordinate (between themselves) access to" > a system wide resource on NODE2. > E > I have simply included the node name (from $GETSYI) in the resourcenI > name and the problem is solved. My original request just asked if therebB > was a recognised 'official' way to restrict the resource/lock to  > individual nodes in a cluster. >  > >L > > a_haines@my-deja.com wrote:a > > > A > > > When taking out a new lock on a resource (with $enqw) is itm
 > possible tog9 > > > make the lock system wide rather than cluster wide?T > > >nH > > > I have a resource that is only specific to the system and requires@ > > > processes on that system to synchronise access to it. But, > processes onI > > > another system in the cluster only only need to synchronise between 1 > > > themselves for the resource on that system.A > > >1G > > > I can of course include the node name in the resource name, but ID > don'tNF > > > want to do that if there is already some 'not cluster wide' flag > that I > > > can set. > > > , > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy.t > >o > > --H > > Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NYH > >       - jilly@clarityconnect.com                      - Brett Bodine > fan I > >       - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com                        - since 1975 orl > so5 > >       - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -v > >u > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    -- pD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 07:17:03 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)t' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-hymhOtqysFR2@localhost>/  E On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:14:20, "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> wrote:=  D > Actually Dave, we don't have Federal Elections.  All our electionsI > are state elections.  Presidential elections are made up of 50 seperate H > state elections for the "electors" that will vote for the President in > December.r > 	 > Rick...t  C Oh I do appreciate that. And I know that there was good historical cF reason for it and that those historical reasons make it very difficultD for change to be applied. Any change has to be agreed by all(?) the C states and I understand some of the smaller ones would not like to tF lose their influence. Not unlike in the EU where the states know that A it is 'odd' to have a small nation with the ability to block any -0 reform but can't bring themselves to change it.   E A comparison a bit closer to home, is the discussion in the UK about bF changing our Parliamentary voting system from 1st past the post to one( form of the proportional representation.   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 07:17:04 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)d' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionsw5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dFC2bwd7K3Zm@localhost>.  F On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:51:01, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  wrote: 
> lV >  Yeah, had me laughing just as much as Labour's promisies of introducing proprtionalV > representation when elected while they were in opposition all those Tory years. Have6 > we seen one move towards PR since they were elected? >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project  ! Sorry Tim ,I can't let that go :-   %      Scottish paraliamentary election       Welsh Nation assemblyE      European Paraliamentaty Election (Very bad result for labour to)e      Northern Ireland   3 Will we get it for the big one? I dunno. I hope so.    Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 01:38 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)d' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections - Message-ID: <14NOV200001380208@gerg.tamu.edu>t  # LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com writes...u= }What I found interesting, through all of this, was to learn o? }how many ballots are typically disallowed in a given election.e } 7 }the first remedy,  might be something to help a voter a6 }confirm that his/her ballot is sound, and/or perhaps B }even that the punched ballot really reflects their final choices.  @ Perhaps they should have each vote collected by Regis Philbin so3 he can ask each voter, "Is that your final answer?"m   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 08:08:25 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionst+ Message-ID: <Vd9fCpC6l3w7@eisner.decus.org>   e In article <5PwPOscvQz=lA=W1JpPJeyc9GcIa@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com> writes:  >> Senator @ >>Clinton and other members of the next Congress have reportedlyC >>mentioned a willingness to introduce an Amendment eliminating them >>electoral college. >> > E > I noticed.  Considering that it requires a 2/3 majority of both theaB > House and Senate, then passage by 3/4 of the state legislatures, > it will never pass.   G It still looks slightly more likely that Bush will win (I won't hazzardiE a real guess until Friday).  In the current state of politics I'm notwF counting on the Republican Congress to pass a change to something thatB was to thier candidate's advantage.  If it ever happens again it'sA likely to remain to the Republican's advantage due to traditionaln3 Democrat - big city, Republican - rural tendencies.S  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GrouprE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingl   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 08:21:18 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)' Subject: Re: Technology of US Electionsr+ Message-ID: <C0bYj2eR+AQf@eisner.decus.org>e   In article <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240111FB5@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>, John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> writes:e  & > I find it incredible that people areH > prepared to accept that counts should be accurate within error limits.  D No one has come up with an error free system, therfor we must acceptG accuracy to within some error limits.  Normally the systematic error istG smaller than the difference between the candidates.  Life gets a littleeH more interesting when the systematic error is larger than the difference between candidates.-  F If you have a perfect vote tallying system please patent it and marketD it to every county in the U.S., I'd hate to see a Microsoft solution come out instead.o  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupmE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying0   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 08:25:05 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionsn+ Message-ID: <BZqqv04rV6vM@eisner.decus.org>f  \ In article <3A0F3AE5.303F5A04@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > L > To me, this is irrelevant. The whole election process should be runned by= >  ane  > independant apolitical entity.  C I can't imagine any entity being both apolitical and willing to geta* carry out an event so central to politics.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationh= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupgE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 08:40:48 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections.+ Message-ID: <rto59+aUx7mo@eisner.decus.org>y  e In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-hymhOtqysFR2@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:oG > On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:14:20, "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com> wrote:  > E >> Actually Dave, we don't have Federal Elections.  All our electionsSJ >> are state elections.  Presidential elections are made up of 50 seperateI >> state elections for the "electors" that will vote for the President in, >> December. >> m  8 51.  By Constitutional Amendment D.C. gets to vote, too.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupnE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:59:53 -0500g0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com>' Subject: Re: Technology of US ElectionsoD Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001114085953.00a19780@discovery.fuentez.com>  ( At 08:21 AM 11/14/2000 -0500, you wrote: >In articlecF <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240111FB5@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>, John5 Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> writes:n >o' >> I find it incredible that people areuI >> prepared to accept that counts should be accurate within error limits.o > E >No one has come up with an error free system, therfor we must accept H >accuracy to within some error limits.  Normally the systematic error isH >smaller than the difference between the candidates.  Life gets a littleI >more interesting when the systematic error is larger than the differencee >between candidates. >eG >If you have a perfect vote tallying system please patent it and marketNE >it to every county in the U.S., I'd hate to see a Microsoft solutioni >come out instead.   Yes...  I A Microsoft election solution would definitely NOT be desireable since itsB would involve the US military in overseeing the election process.   J "General Protection Fault" and his aide "Major Disaster" would control the outcome.   :-)    Regards,   Jim    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:28:10 +0000i- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>s' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionse) Message-ID: <3A114BFA.5A38769C@bbc.co.uk>    Dave Weatherall wrote:  $ >  Sorry Tim ,I can't let that go :- >o' >      Scottish paraliamentary elections >      Welsh Nation assemblyG >      European Paraliamentaty Election (Very bad result for labour to)  >      Northern Irelande >n  / but no PR for English MP's, thats what I meant.n    --e6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukc  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.t   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 16:15:43 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)' Subject: Re: Technology of US Electionso, Message-ID: <8uroff$44c@gap.cco.caltech.edu>   In article <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240111FB5@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>, John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> writes:l% >I find it incredible that people aretM >prepared to accept that counts should be accurate within error limits. We're-M >not discussing here some experimental scientific measurement but the preciser& >number of votes cast in an election.   I There is no special property that relieves an election count from all theyJ normal statistical properties associated with a population (self) samplingC and it's attendant sources of error.   Would you at least accept ascC plausible the hypothesis that voter error and frailty restricts theiF absolute accuracy of the votes cast in the first place?  That is, someK percentage of voters will forget to vote or will be unable to do so becausebG of errant weather, illness, and other such events.   I expect that some F measurable number are injured or killed just walking or driving to theG polls each year!  Unless turnout is 100%, which has never happened, the,F votes cast are a sample of the desires of the voting population, not aG direct count of it.  After that there are also the mechanistic forms ofnJ error, such as marking a ballot incorrectly or having a ballot lost in the mail.   G Hard to believe that these sources of error are not (much) larger than iE 300/6,000,000 => .005%.  Especially since the expected sampling errorrL on 3000000 (votes roughly that cast for each candidate) should be something J like the square root of that value, or 1732 votes.   Neither candidate is I going to have a margin outside these error bars, so to me it looks like avK statistical dead heat in Florida.  Unfortunately our 18th century electoraloE system has no concept of statistics (a problem which also affects thegE census) and so the election officials cannot declare a tie unless the J number of votes comes out exactly equal.  So both candidates are trying toI finesse this statistical tie into a win through postelection manipulation  and counter-manipulation.   I It would really impress me if either of the candidates had the brains andlE nerve to admit that the election was really a tie (in Florida and thecG electoral college) - and agreed to abide by the result of a coin flip. E   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduI? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:10:07 +0000c8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>' Subject: RE: Technology of US Elections'L Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240111FB8@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  . > No one has come up with an error free system  H The manual count can be completely error free when counting valid ballotJ papers. Once agreement has been reached on what constitutes a valid ballot7 paper they can be counted manually with 100% accuracy. m  2 Take an example. Eleven votes cast in an election." 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11." Total votes counted. Accuracy 100%  D While the accuracy may not be 100% first time round, with methodicalG counting and more than one pass it's possible to achieve 100% accuracy.gK Rememeber that manual counting usually only involves counting small bundleso
 at a time.  I If banks can count money manually with 100% accuracy vote counters can dov	 the same.   F There's no need for a new "system", just apply the common sense one(s) already available.   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:17:04 +0000D8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>' Subject: RE: Technology of US ElectionsgL Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240111FB9@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  J >There is no special property that relieves an election count from all theK >normal statistical properties associated with a population (self) samplingn% >and it's attendant sources of error.e  J My reference to accuracy is not as a measure of voter intention but to theL counting of the valid ballot papers. That can and ought to be 100% accurate.     John    B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:34:59 -0500 - From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <SQUAYLE@stanq.com>l' Subject: RE: Technology of US ElectionsfK Message-ID: <Pine.VMS.3.91-2.1001114123140.23384A-100000@killer.azbell.com>0  , On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, John Macallister wrote:K > If banks can count money manually with 100% accuracy vote counters can doo > the same.     J It's sad that our votes aren't treated with the same respect as $1 bills, 	 isn't it?r     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA ? Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com         http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:56:02 -0500e4 From: "Bochnik, William J" <BochnikWJ@bernstein.com>' Subject: RE: Technology of US ElectionsnJ Message-ID: <2B37459189B0D211BE710000F8EF9D850890885A@nts0147.beehive.com>  I But the government can print more money when it wants to (sort of) but itoF cannot decide which votes count, and ..... oh wait a minute........... 	-----Original Message-----w1 	From:	Stanley F. Quayle [SMTP:SQUAYLE@stanq.com] * 	Sent:	Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:35 PM 	To:	Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com( 	Subject:	RE: Technology of US Elections  - 	On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, John Macallister wrote:oE 	> If banks can count money manually with 100% accuracy vote counters  can do 	> the same.    C 	It's sad that our votes aren't treated with the same respect as $1r bills, w
 	isn't it?     	--Stanr   	----------n? 	Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614m 868-16714 	8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA@ 	Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com         http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:50:57 +0000e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>r' Subject: Re: Technology of US Electionsk) Message-ID: <3A117B81.C53ABC1F@bbc.co.uk>c   "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:  . > On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, John Macallister wrote:M > > If banks can count money manually with 100% accuracy vote counters can dob
 > > the same.  > K > It's sad that our votes aren't treated with the same respect as $1 bills,  > isn't it?	 >o  I Hey, why not get the banks to be polling stations. They have security ando networks	 in place.o   :-)n   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofn MedAS or the BBC.i   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 08:38:47 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)J Subject: Re: Technology of US elections OR why Palm Beach selected Solaris+ Message-ID: <JkUcN5xRecOB@eisner.decus.org>m  X In article <1001113194532.2093B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > C > The spaces between the minus signs, plus signs, and vertical bars C > are NOT artifacts.  They are really there, and are what keeps thei? > little rectangle from falling out of the card.  However, they  > are easily torn! >   H This depends on which punch card voting technology the county is using. F Our county uses a card which looks the same size and is the same shapeG as the old 80 column computer cards (even with one corner knocked off).yG There are no prepunched holes.  The punching machine in the voting bothtH is suppposed top prevent alignment problems, but does nothing to preventG multiple punches or even punches where there is no selection indicated,n% either of which invalidates the vote.   F Don't know if any county in Floria has this system, but nation wide it is quite common.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation0= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group>E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingo   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2000 08:34:13 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)= Subject: Re: Technology of US elections x Brazilian elections + Message-ID: <eJ$d7xPCwrjQ@eisner.decus.org>o  \ In article <3A1063EB.5A2B903A@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > H > There are also cost savings that could be acheived. So, your old 1960sP > keypunch machines are paid for. But how much does it cost you to pay the staffO > to operate those machines ? If corporations figured out it was cheaper to buy . > new technology, how come government hasn't ?  F Election volunteers are cheaper then what the typical corporation must pay.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationr= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupmE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingt   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2000 15:51:38 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a= Subject: Re: Technology of US elections x Brazilian electionse, Message-ID: <8urn2a$2oda$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  L In article <OF95970324.F3BACBF4-ON03256996.00637698@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,,  fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:H |> We had elections in my country this year, 100% using electronic vote, |> with no fraud and etc ...  ( And how could you possibly verify this??6 I'll bet the guy who lost doesn't share your optomism.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   p   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:29:47 -0300l) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brw= Subject: Re: Technology of US elections x Brazilian electionsnL Message-ID: <OF38B7DF91.290BED72-ON03256997.005FF6A7@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  F All the political parties here  (left x right) agree with this system.  There=B4s control of all of them in the elections  too.     Regards    FC              B bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) em 14/11/2000 13:51:38  " Favor responder a bill@cs.uofs.eduH                                                                        =     =20AH                                                                        =     =20 H                                                                        =     =20     @                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                              =20@                                                              =20@  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)  =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Assunto: Re: Technology of US elections x Brazilian         =20@           elections                                          =20@                                                              =20           =a    
 In articleA <OF95970324.F3BACBF4-ON03256996.00637698@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>,t,  fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:H |> We had elections in my country this year, 100% using electronic vote= ,p |> with no fraud and etc ...  ( And how could you possibly verify this??6 I'll bet the guy who lost doesn't share your optomism.   bill   --H Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wol= ves:D bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       =5   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:11:50 -0500o1 From: "Tommy Noble" <tommydotnoble@vistacomp.com> 9 Subject: Tracking IO - unsupported DCL/debugging feature?t% Message-ID: <RudQ5.19$P67.268@client>b  C I've been away from VMS for a bit and cannot recall the syntax of alI debugging 'trick' I used to use.  Turning this on would allow me to run a-L program and see everything a program was doing, including (maybe limited to,L but I don't think so) positioning, reading & writing to RMS files.  It wouldE be tricky sometimes to catch all the details, so much information was- screaming by on the screen.2  I Can someone remind me of the command?  I've totally blanked out on it.  I:L think it was officially unsupported, but I have to think it's probably still  out there.  It was too useful...   TIA@  + -------------------------------------------a Tommy Noble  VISTA Computer Services1 tommy.noble at vistacomp.com   ------------------------------   Date: 14 NOV 2000 16:17:55 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>o= Subject: Re: Tracking IO - unsupported DCL/debugging feature?e2 Message-ID: <14NOV00.16175502@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  2 "Tommy Noble" <tommydotnoble@vistacomp.com> wrote:E > I've been away from VMS for a bit and cannot recall the syntax of a-K > debugging 'trick' I used to use.  Turning this on would allow me to run a N > program and see everything a program was doing, including (maybe limited to,N > but I don't think so) positioning, reading & writing to RMS files.  It wouldG > be tricky sometimes to catch all the details, so much information was5 > screaming by on the screen.n >  iK > Can someone remind me of the command?  I've totally blanked out on it.  I3N > think it was officially unsupported, but I have to think it's probably still" > out there.  It was too useful...  @ Sounds like you're thinking of SET WATCH FILE [/CLASS=classname]   where "classname" is one of:  2 ALL                  ! Turns on  all the functions2 NONE                 ! Turns off all the functions  & ATTRIBUTES           ! File Attributes ATTACHED             ! CONTROL FUNCTION     !5 DUMP                 ! File Information Blocks (FIB):r DIRECTORY FUNCTION   !* MAJOR_FUNCTION       ! Major XOP functions+ QUOTA_OPERATIONS     ! Disk Quota functionsi   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVbH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:44:41 +0000M- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>.= Subject: Re: Tracking IO - unsupported DCL/debugging feature?e) Message-ID: <3A116BF9.CAC30528@bbc.co.uk>r   Tommy Noble wrote:  E > I've been away from VMS for a bit and cannot recall the syntax of aeK > debugging 'trick' I used to use.  Turning this on would allow me to run a-N > program and see everything a program was doing, including (maybe limited to,N > but I don't think so) positioning, reading & writing to RMS files.  It wouldG > be tricky sometimes to catch all the details, so much information was, > screaming by on the screen.  >SK > Can someone remind me of the command?  I've totally blanked out on it.  IaN > think it was officially unsupported, but I have to think it's probably still" > out there.  It was too useful... >  > TIAh >I  
 SET WATCH?   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:00:57 +0000h4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>* Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000-90 Error Code8 Message-ID: <cgk21todvbeohm2n7ug30chu00n4mqvd5p@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:04:46 GMT, "Zane H. Healy"J# <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:c  6 >John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >>J >> or just maybe, BFLG is set to something other than 0 which will lead toJ >> the boot ROM code looking for a non-existent system root.  Try SET BFLG >> 0 or BOOT/0 DKAnnn. >sG >I'm happy to report that this was the answer.  Yesterday I found a fewiM >minutes to once again pull 64MB out of the -60, and put it in the -90.  ThisiJ >time I was lazy though and didn't bother to pull the HD, I just connected >the CD. > E >Doing a "B DKA400" resulted in the above error once again.  Doing a bK >"B/0 DKA400" resulted in the system booting into Standalone backup off thea >CD-ROM!  H Now all you need to do is find the guilty part who had changed BFLG to aA non-zero value !  (It's a rather unusual thing to do, and I'd note& seriously thought it was the problem.)  / You can also return the goat to its pasture ;-)o   	John% -- c
 John Laird   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.637 ************************