1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 21 Nov 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 650       Contents: Re: Alpha station  RE: Alpha station  Re: Alpha station & attunity product installation comments Re: CDE Front Panel , Re: Complete Alpha for Less than $900!!!!!!!, Re: Complete Alpha for Less than $900!!!!!!!, Re: Complete Alpha for Less than $900!!!!!!! Re: Connecting a CD-writer.. RE: Connecting a CD-writer.. Re: Convert .decw$font to .pcf> Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server> Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server DEFINE/KEY and recall buffer
 Re: Frontport % Re: Hex characters in ASCII data file % Re: Hex characters in ASCII data file & Re: How can I watch RealPlayer movies?# How fast ZIP compress on Alpha4000? ) Re: Looking for RJ45-to-ThinWire adapter. ) Re: Looking for RJ45-to-ThinWire adapter.  Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1H1  Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1H1  Re: OpenVMS CBT  OpenVMS CBT  Re: OpenVMS CBT  OpenVMS certification exam... ! Re: OpenVMS certification exam...  remote DECWindows  Re: remote DECWindows  Re: remote DECWindows  Reset file version number? Re: Reset file version number? Re: Reset file version number? Ricoh printer questions  Re: Ricoh printer questions 	 Re: RWAST  Re: sending BREAK to a session. RE: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed. Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailed RE: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US Elections Test only -- sorry TPU bug ? (cut large part) Re: VS-3100 with RX33 attached? K Re: [FREEWARE] MAILBOX : MIME-enabled user-friendly mail client for OpenVMS K Re: [FREEWARE] MAILBOX : MIME-enabled user-friendly mail client for OpenVMS ) Re: [Fwd: RE: Technology of US elections] ) Re: [Fwd: RE: Technology of US elections]   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:16:19 +0000 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Alpha station8 Message-ID: <p2ui1t4t7jdthd3m88ube0o05srs9d2o6d@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:27:40 +0000, Tim Llewellyn   <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:  5 >you got some nerve mate posting this to comp.os.vms.   6 Perhaps someone could suggest a Solaris installation ?   ;-)    	John  --  
 John Laird   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:22:01 +1200 . From: Nivlesh Chandra <NChandra001@itc.gov.fj> Subject: RE: Alpha stationO Message-ID: <791C2856E8FDD211BAFB0008C759919501A62A29@exchange01.govnet.gov.fj>   L the thing is that I already have 10 machines running VMS on them and since IB have one extra I thought of installing Linux on it... just want toI experiment .. thats all... sorry if I have offended anyone.. since I am a @ VAX user myself...but just wanted to see what Linux has to offer    L ============================================================================% ===================================== 1 On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:27:40 +0000, Tim Llewellyn   <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:  5 >you got some nerve mate posting this to comp.os.vms.   6 Perhaps someone could suggest a Solaris installation ?   ;-)    	John  --  
 John Laird   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:54:26 +1300 9 From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz>  Subject: Re: Alpha station3 Message-ID: <bXhS5.37862$SF5.707124@ozemail.com.au>    at the >>> prompt type:    arc      and follow the menu.     antony            ; "Nivlesh Chandra" <NChandra001@itc.gov.fj> wrote in message I news:791C2856E8FDD211BAFB0008C759919501A62A29@exchange01.govnet.gov.fj... L > the thing is that I already have 10 machines running VMS on them and since I D > have one extra I thought of installing Linux on it... just want toK > experiment .. thats all... sorry if I have offended anyone.. since I am a B > VAX user myself...but just wanted to see what Linux has to offer >  >  > L ============================================================================' > ===================================== 3 > On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:27:40 +0000, Tim Llewellyn " > <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote: > 7 > >you got some nerve mate posting this to comp.os.vms.  > 8 > Perhaps someone could suggest a Solaris installation ? >  > ;-)  >  > John > -- > John Laird >    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Nov 2000 23:49:54 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)/ Subject: attunity product installation comments , Message-ID: <8vcdb2$j05@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  J Have any of you successfully installed the Attunity connect "on platform" J distribution?  Is the "on platform" variant of any value whatsoever if you/ don't have an Oracle database on your machine?    I Silly me.  The blurb in the OpenVMS Times indicated that there was an XML D parser in the attunity connect package, and a VMS ODBC client, and IB thought that those might be useful (Now that I've read more of theD documentation the XML capabilities seem wildly inappropriate for the@ desired task of breaking the data out of an XML encoded databaseG distribution, and the ODBC client appears to only want to go to another  attunity connect ODBC server.)  F I downloaded the "on platform" package (after obtaining some help fromI Warren Sander, since the downloads wouldn't complete from the web server) 4 and tried to install.   The instructions say to do:   #   $ @Sys$update:vmsinstal AC3000020    but the real command is   #  $ @sys$update:vmsinstal NAV3000030   I Apparently the name of the product changed recently and the manuals have   not caught up (or vice versa!).   H I chose all default options for the installation. The thing is, while itK lists adapters for RDB, Oracle, Ingres Sybase, or Codasyl, we only have RMS D and S1032 (thanks CCA-INT and Tym Stegner!) but neither of those wasI listed, so I answered NO for all of those adapters (which was the default 
 anyway.)    H Apparently the installation procedure cannot proceed properly unless at E least one of those is present on the system.  Or maybe the account I  K specified (our web server account) didn't have enough privs?  Or maybe the  H software is just nonfunctional.  Anyway, the installation trundled alongI for a while and then went into what looked like the IVP section, where it 0 proceeded to emit hundreds of errors like this:    Failed in Executing :     insert into lineitem values (             962.00 ,              31.00 ,               2.00 ,               1.00 ,               3.0 0 ,         2793.09 ,            0.04 ,            0.00 , 'A' , 'F' , convert ( '07-Aug-1994' ,date), convert ( '31-Jul-1994' ,date) ,   convert ( '02-Sep-1994' ,date), 'TAKE BACK RETURN'          , 'FOB'        , 'n2xP3 yL7kLRQPR0m'                            )  [Err or] /         Execute Query failed with error = -2212 F  1) [A00D] Failed to open table navdemo:lineitem; code: 0: SQL code: 0   C which went on for several minutes until it blew up completely with:   D %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual address=2 0000000000000000, PC=000000000041A550, PS=0000001B  2   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.1     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000005 1                         Name   = 000000000000000C 1                                  0000000000000004 1                                  0000000000000000 1                                  000000000041A550 1                                  000000000000001B        Register dump:J     R0  = 0000000000000000  R1  = 000000007B867178  R2  = 000000000031DF00J     R3  = 000000000061F450  R4  = 00000000000F85F0  R5  = 0000000000000044J     R6  = 0000000000000001  R7  = 0000000000025800  R8  = 0000000000025800J     R9  = 0000000000000000  R10 = 000000007FFAD238  R11 = 000000007FFCE3E0J     R12 = 0000000000000000  R13 = 000000007AFC8330  R14 = 0000000000000000J     R15 = 000000007AFC7990  R16 = 0000000000000000  R17 = 0000000000000018J     R18 = 0000000000000003  R19 = 000000007B862010  R20 = 0000000000000000J     R21 = 0000000000000000  R22 = 01010350006BC3B8  R23 = 000000000101035BJ     R24 = 000000007B52E778  R25 = 0000000000000001  R26 = 000000000041A544J     R27 = 000000007B860820  R28 = 0000000000000000  R29 = 000000007AE8B150J     SP  = 000000007AE8B140  PC  = 000000000041A550  PS  = 000000000000001B  ; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of SWD has been superseded - Upgrade utility started at 20-Nov-00 14:46:33 = Upgrade log file is SEQAXP$DKA0:[000000.NAVROOT.TMP]upgrd.log A -oldroot <old-navroot>' option is required for 'upgrade_to_3 all'  FAILEDO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------   7         Installation of NAV3000 V3.0 completed at 14:46   >     Adding history entry in VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL.HISTORY  I     Creating installation data file: VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]NAV3000030.VMI_DATA     )         VMSINSTAL procedure done at 14:46     I In brief, the installation went wildly haywire.  Unfortunately it did not Q even keep an adequate log of its actions in VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]NAV3000030.VMI_DATA, J which listed no files as being installed while in fact it put rather a lot of files into:       DKA0:[NAVROOT]  ` and also left SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]NAV_STARTUP.COM and SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]NAV_SHUT.COM files.  5 Thankfully it did not modify SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB  or E SYS$LIBRARY:DCLTABLES.EXE so backing out shouldn't be too difficult.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------    Date: 20 Nov 2000 16:57:17 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: CDE Front Panel+ Message-ID: <uA8320V9+3NR@eisner.decus.org>   F In article <8vbqe9$nkr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rwscsinc@my-deja.com writes: > 0 > Here is the URL for the System Admin guide for > configuring the CDE. > 4 > http://www.iagu.net/docs/dec/SysAdmin/sysadmin_1.h > tml  >   C Now all you need to know is how to do ls -l, rm filename, how to be ; root, and where /usr/ft/bin/dtconfig is on your VMS system.   D Useless UNIX-centric documents just like the ones which shipped with CDE.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:56:44 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 5 Subject: Re: Complete Alpha for Less than $900!!!!!!! - Message-ID: <3A19BA3C.FC49A1F0@earthlink.net>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > > VMS-capable hardware at less than $500 U.S. is not a question of "if",L > > it's a question of when. The first one with enough brass in his balls toH > > make it happen will become the next Bill Gates - or at least a close > > competitor.  > > F > > Your mission, Jim, should you decide to accept it, is to make that4 > > happen before I do, or before someone else does. > . > Why do you not enter the hardware business ?   I'm trying to, Arne!   @ > It is very easy to critisize vendors from being too expensive.  B Been there, done that, have the T-shirt, the coffee mug, the paper" weight, ... I've earned the right.   F > It may be a bit more difficult to sell the same products cheaper and > at the same time make money.  G Balancing costs against what you can get retail, then balancing margins G against volume is difficult (even Compaq hasn't got it quite right yet) ; but not impossible. It just takes patience and hard work...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:04:14 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 5 Subject: Re: Complete Alpha for Less than $900!!!!!!! - Message-ID: <3A19BBFE.2B2CC749@earthlink.net>   * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > % > Its time to have AMD Alphas ! ! !   A Close. What we REALLY need is an affordable Intel-based mobo that G supports both vectored interrupts and "traditional" mode, kinda the way F Alphas support VMS, Tru64, *BSD, Linux and (formerly) NT. That'll killH the primary excuse you hear most often when the "VMS on Intel" arguments	 start up.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  " Date: Tue Nov 21 00:40:01 GMT 2000 From: <postmaster@localhost>5 Subject: Re: Complete Alpha for Less than $900!!!!!!! $ Message-ID: <292196500@MVB.SAIC.COM>  ) > It=B4s time to have AMD Alpha=B4s ! ! !   , How about fixing your e-mail software first?   > 
 > Regards, >  > FC >  >  >  >  >  >  > ? > Arne Vajh=F8j <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> em 20/11/2000 13:41:34 J >                                                                        =	 >     =20 J >                                                                        =	 >     =20 J >                                                                        =	 >     =20  >  > B >                                                              =20B >                                                              =20B >                                                              =20B >  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                              =20B >                                                              =20B >  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)  =20B >                                                              =20B >                                                              =20B >                                                              =20B >  Assunto: Re: Complete Alpha for Less than $900!!!!!!!       =20B >                                                              =20 >  >  >  >  >  > =    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:22:58 GMT / From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> % Subject: Re: Connecting a CD-writer.. ) Message-ID: <3A194FE2.43207B7C@uiowa.edu>    Jesper Naur wrote: > 8 > A. van Klei <avanklei@worldonline.nl> wrote in message, > news:8v9dpo$g2b$1@nereid.worldonline.nl...L > > Is there PC sofware wich formats an CD-RW with the Open-VMS file system?+ > > and how can I put Open-VMS files on it?  > > 	 > Look at  > 6 > http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/vms.html > H > DFY$VMSCD is a program, which can create CD-images containing VMS fileM > systems. The image can then be transferred to a PC and burnt onto the CD in ; > 'image' mode - something most CD-burning programs can do.   > 	FYI: except for EasyCD Creator...  The old EasyCD(Pro) can asA well some others.  It's just that most people have Creator and it  refuses @ to acknowledge the image file created by DFY as a valid file. :(   Rick --  H Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:05:16 -0500 # From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> % Subject: RE: Connecting a CD-writer.. D Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD8CC@berry.mvpsi.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Richard L. Dyson [mailto:rick-dyson@uiowa.edu] >  > Jesper Naur wrote: > > : > > A. van Klei <avanklei@worldonline.nl> wrote in message. > > news:8v9dpo$g2b$1@nereid.worldonline.nl...9 > > > Is there PC sofware wich formats an CD-RW with the ! > Open-VMS file system?t- > > > and how can I put Open-VMS files on it?  > > >o > > Look ate > > 8 > > http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/vms.html > > 7 > > DFY$VMSCD is a program, which can create CD-images E > containing VMS filef; > > systems. The image can then be transferred to a PC and e > burnt onto the CD in= > > 'image' mode - something most CD-burning programs can do.Z > @ > 	FYI: except for EasyCD Creator...  The old EasyCD(Pro) can asC > well some others.  It's just that most people have Creator and ite	 > refuses.B > to acknowledge the image file created by DFY as a valid file. :( >   H If EasyCD Creator won't do it then go to www.goldenhawk.com and downloadL their CD burning software (CDRWin).  The FILE2CD.EXE utility works great forK copying ODS2 images to CD-Rs.  Plus, FILE2CD is freeware!  You will have tosC pay the license fee if you want to use other portions of CDRWin.   o   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Nov 2000 14:47:52 -05002 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg)' Subject: Re: Convert .decw$font to .pcfe+ Message-ID: <ven1$+ooKdE$@eisner.decus.org>e  ) In article <3A196ABC.9669EE16@bbc.co.uk>,S/ Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:e >  o > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > >> The DECW$FONT files are compiled for the VAX, are are not a >> standard format.c >>; >> The simplest thing is to extract the files from an AlphaM4 >> distribution, which uses the standard PCF format. >>@ >> Of course, the fonts come with VMS licensed for use on *that*A >> system.  Some of the fonts on the distribution may be licensedd> >> by Compaq for use on our systems (that is, they are not theA >> direct property of Compaq).  So I cannot endorse copying those0< >> files to a LINUX box.  It is not supported or sanctioned. >> oB >  So, one can't copy them to another system, and DECW$XFS doesn'tC > work properly so they can't be served to another system. Just howwD > exactly is one supposed to use an Xemulator on a PC or X on a UnixE > box to run a DECTerm and not see just a horrible mess on the screen  > when one types MONTOR SYSTEM?   C I do not have that problem with Excursion, Exceed, or Reflection X.   0D > Just trying to clarify things, as I have similar issues (and not aC > recent enough version of VMS to run the patched DECW$XFS that the0 > support people sent me).  F In some cases I have had to edit a font alias file.  The name of whichE is usually font.alias.  The actual name may vary with the X emulationt product.  5 Also there are many sources of free fonts on the WWW.e  . http://www.freebsd.org/es/ports/x11-fonts.html  4 http://cds.duke.edu/pub/sunsite/X11/fonts/INDEX.html  B There are many such collections that show up from a search engine.; The trick is finding a package with the ones that you need.0   -Johnl wb8tyw@qsl.network" malmberg@eisner.decus.organization   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:26:19 -0500s9 From: "Steven Shamlian" <not dot an at earthling dot net>iG Subject: Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server12 Message-ID: <8vcpu5$qp0$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>  I Alright, I've been messing with my VAX Hobbes a bit and I still can't get@8 the terminal server to connect to the service it offers.   Here's what's going on so far. DECnet is running.   $ ncp show known nodes  6 Known Node Volatile Summary as of 20-NOV-2000 22:21:03   Executor node = 1.1 (HOBBES)   State                    = on 6 Identification           = DECnet for OpenVMS VAX V7.2  0 It would seem that I have a service ready to go: LATCP> show services- Service Name      Status       IdentificationoL ----------------  -----------  --------------------------------------------- ---- HOBBES            Available=/ @SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR.SYSMSGS]HOBBES_ANNOUNCE.TXT=  	 So then I= -------> connect Hobbes= from the term server.=
 It times out.0 I try0 -------> connect Hobbes 1.1y
 Times out.  ' Obviously, I'm still missing something.s Thanks in advance, =+=Steven Shamlian=+=   7 "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <eplan@kapsch.net> wrote in messagen" news:3a180cf7@news.kapsch.co.at...H > In article <00FR5.33409$3h3.242752@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>,1 "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> writes:d7 > >What happens when you run the LAT startup procedure?  > >s# > >$ @SYS$MANAGER:LAT$SYSTARTUP.COMd >                    ^^^^s >l > $ @SYS$MANAGER:LAT$STARTUP > D > is the startup procedure which calls SYS$MANAGER:LAT$SYSTARTUP.COME > (the customer/site specific startup procedure), the procedure where I > the system manager makes modifications to change LAT things (eg. create  > additional links or services)p >a > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888i> > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:27:13 -0600 (CST)d From: sms@antinode.orgG Subject: Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal serverw) Message-ID: <00112022271318@antinode.org>       Mr. Shamlian:   > LATCP> show services [...]   D    Good start.  Try "MCR LATCP SHOW NODE".  Are incoming connections enabled?   > from the term server.a  C    Is the terminal server LAT-only or LAT-or-TELNET?  (I never used G anything newer than a DECserver 200.) At the "LOCAL>" prompt, try "SHOWn< SERVICES" (See HOBBES?) and "HELP CONNECT" ("/LAT" needed?).  A    Enable outgoing connections, if necessary ("MCR LATCP SET NODE - /CONN=BOTH"), and try "SET HOST /LAT HOBBES".w  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)pC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)mG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)g9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)A   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:54:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e% Subject: DEFINE/KEY and recall buffer , Message-ID: <3A19C7CA.F87256C0@videotron.ca>  L I have a serious problem which is jeoperdizing my extremely loyal commitment	 to VMS...   N I have a DEFINE/KEY/TERMINATE/NOECHO which does a WRITE SYS$OUTPUT with escapeK sequences and lexicals. The goal is to display the current directory as the  decterm's window name.    Works fine when I press the key.  J The problem which is causing me to re-evaluate my whole purpose in life isK that when I use the up/down arrows to browse through the recall buffer, theoH write sys$output command is displayed and its escape sequences are sent,M except that the lexicals are not executed. So the window title becomes a messo& of ''F$TRNLNM("SYS$NODE") etc etc etc.  M Shouldn't there be a way to do a DEFINE/KEY option so that when you press thei< PF key, the command doesn't get added to the recall buffer ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:14:44 -0600 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>  Subject: Re: Frontport/ Message-ID: <t1jj0v7o42237b@corp.supernews.com>   I It appears that UNZIP 5.12 on VAX can not unzip files created by INFO-ZIP1H ZIP 2.2 on OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 that contain Alpha object modules or object
 libraries.  I I do not know if this is a bug, or just some insufficient quota settings.0L The user of UNZIP 5.12 will get an error suggesting that the ZIP file may be corrupt.  H I also do not have a handy pointer to a version of UNZIP for OpenVMS VAX prebuilt that will work.  2 I have placed a FRONTPORT_V_1_0E02_VAX.ZIP file atA http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/frontport/ that contains only a0; distribution for VAX that was zipped with INFO-ZIP ZIP 2.0.   < This should help with any problems with extracting the kits.  I Also, if you are running a version of OpenVMS older than 7.0, you need toe< modify the link procedure to link the object modules againstG sys$share:decc$crtl.olb/lib.  At this time I can not provide a modified ! procedure or test one to do this.a  F I have received a report that SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS will not link onI OpenVMS Alpha 6.2.  This may also be true on the VAX platform.  I can notC' chase these problems down at this time.F  H Again, I have only tested this on OpenVMS VAX 7.1 and OpenVMS ALPHA 7.2.   -Johnm wb8tyw@qsl.network" malmberg@eisner.decus.organization   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:08:07 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.. Subject: Re: Hex characters in ASCII data file, Message-ID: <3A19A0C1.ED58517F@videotron.ca>  H > > I am working with an ASCII sequential data file that is 320 bytes in > > length.  EachEJ > > time I FTP this file to my PC,  line feed and form feed hex characters > > appear at the  > > end of each line.E  I Can you do a DIR/FULL of the source file on VMS ?. Also, do you know whatr( TCPIP stack is in use on your VMS host ?  L In my experience, the VMS host determines the type of transmission dependingI on the file format and no the file's name. And there are some FTP clientsrN which do not specifically set the file type when you fetch files from a server (only when you send to them).   L VMS must convert the file's internal format to one which is "standard". ThisL means removing control information from records and possibly adding carriage7 return/lifefeeds to the data stream sent to the client.   N On a character cell FTP client, you can use commands such as SET TYPE ASCII or SET TYPE IMAGE.tK For SET TYPE ASCII, both the server and client will "coordinate" the end ofeM record to ensure that records are terminated with the sequence appropriate to  your client's platform.u  K In SET TYPE IMAGE, then the server will offer just the raw data without anyo4 interpretation/conversion of end of line characters.    M If your client has a menu such as "SEND FTP COMMAND", you can try "TYPE I" ormL "TYPE A" to tell the server at the other end to use one or the other type of
 file tranfer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:13:44 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>s. Subject: Re: Hex characters in ASCII data file, Message-ID: <3A19BE38.6370F4F@earthlink.net>   Oscar Lerma wrote: > J > I am working with an ASCII data file that is 320 bytes in length.  Every > timeI > I FTP the file to my PC hex characters (line feed, form feed) appear at 	 > the endsI > of each line.  I have tried numerous setting in my FTP client but stilll > get the sameH > results.  I have also dumpted the data file into a hex file but cannot
 > see the hexf > characters there.W > I > Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I should look next whether/( > my FTP client or the data file itself?  E If the file on VMS has fixed-length records 320 bytes in length, thenn" transfer it to your PC as BINARY.   E If the file shows as having variable length records, even if they arenC consistently 320 bytes in length, then you'll have to CONVERT it to " fixed-320 first, then transfer it.  F ...unless your pc program EXPECTS the two-byte length attribute at theD beginning of each record, in which case just transfer the sequential) variable file as BINARY instead of ASCII.w   -- V David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems@ http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Nov 2000 22:25:40 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)/ Subject: Re: How can I watch RealPlayer movies? . Message-ID: <8vc8d4$iii$3@info.service.rug.nl>  : In article <3A194265.F5A02247@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison# <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: r  9 > The origional poster wants to use his Alpha box runningm; > OpenVMS to access the Web. A big % of the streaming mediam< > on Internet sites uses RealPlayer so if you want to access9 > them you need RealPlayer or something that will handle 0A > RealPlayer formats. This is no different to the situation with s? > respect to Microsoft Office and its proprietary file formats.u  C Exactly.  Which is why one should be just as adamant in rejecting, .E protesting to, avoiding and boycotting this stuff when it appears as  H some sort of "standard format" for the web, the whole point of which is  to be platform-independent.r  I    "Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label onsE    a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before theaH    Web, when you had very little chance of reading a document written onA    another computer, another word processor, or another network."   3    -Tim Berners-Lee in Technology Review, July 1996t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:42:39 +0800"5 From: Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com> , Subject: How fast ZIP compress on Alpha4000?8 Message-ID: <ufqj1t4pfvdaotda2hv8aq9jo05mce4spi@4ax.com>  1 I got a 4GB Oracle Export dump file on Alpha4000.i& I need to zip it and archived on disk.  , Had anyone tried zipping files of such size?, I need to know the time taken for such task.F This to be done in a non-peak time (zero interactive processes online)   Any help      L Regards,  	 Netsurfern        ====R For any personal email replies, please remove " sentosa. " from my E-mail address.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 20 Nov 00 13:19:30 GMTf From: heimann@ecs.umass.eduD2 Subject: Re: Looking for RJ45-to-ThinWire adapter., Message-ID: <8vcbgo$46s$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  ' In Article <8v9otv$fn7$1@acme.gcfn.org>.- rschaefe@gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) writes:e, >222 63376 <8v9otv$fn7$1@acme.gcfn.org> bodyD >I'm in a similar position as the original poster-- except I want toK >connect some 10B2 equipment to a 10BT network.  I do however have a numberpI >of Asante `Friendlynet (tm) Thin Adapter's.  These are self-powered, and0I >I'm more than a little leary of plugging one into my little hub, since I:I >think they get their power from the RJ-45 jack, and I'm not sure that my>H >hub can put out the power needed.  Can anyone tell me if this is a good> >idea, or should I just get a hub with a BNC port on the back?  G If these are the Asante Friendlynet adapters I remember, they are not aoG 10BaseT to 10Base2 adapter.  Rather they are just "dongles" that happeniG to use a RJ45 plug to connect with the rest of the Asante equipment.  AeF different dongle was used for connecting to each type of 10 Mb wiring.   Joe Heimannr   heimann@ecs.umass.edu    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Nov 2000 21:12:28 -0500+ From: rschaefe@gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer)h2 Subject: Re: Looking for RJ45-to-ThinWire adapter.( Message-ID: <8vclmc$lfn$1@acme.gcfn.org>   heimann@ecs.umass.edu wrote:) : In Article <8v9otv$fn7$1@acme.gcfn.org>m/ : rschaefe@gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) writes:-M : >connect some 10B2 equipment to a 10BT network.  I do however have a numberJK : >of Asante `Friendlynet (tm) Thin Adapter's.  These are self-powered, and0 <snip>  I : If these are the Asante Friendlynet adapters I remember, they are not aeI : 10BaseT to 10Base2 adapter.  Rather they are just "dongles" that happeneI : to use a RJ45 plug to connect with the rest of the Asante equipment.  A H : different dongle was used for connecting to each type of 10 Mb wiring.  I *Oh*  Hmm.  That would make a difference, I believe.  The office buildingyJ I `rescued' them from was wired with coax, so I just assumed that it was a) comverter to cat5.  Doh!  Never assume...f  2 I wonder how easy it is to get the other half.  :/   Thanks to the heads-up, Joe!  
 : Joe Heimanna   Bobd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 23:23:20 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1H1( Message-ID: <8vc7kj$k1p$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  6 Uh, no. We upgraded November last year. Should we have; seen awful things? If so, could you be a bit more specific?   
 Hans Vlems  J P.Lj heeft geschreven in bericht <3A194C7F.41300602@byron.ext.telia.se>... >s >Hi, > D >Does anyone have experienced any problem after upgrading to (Alpha) >OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 ? >R >/P.Lj >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:15:43 +0100   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1H1+ Message-ID: <VA.00000191.0e16787a@sture.ch>i  > In article <3A194C7F.41300602@byron.ext.telia.se>, P.Lj wrote:' > From: "P.Lj" <plj@byron.ext.telia.se>  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsa > Subject: OpenVMS 7.2-1H1% > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:05:37 GMTA >  >  > Hi,e > E > Does anyone have experienced any problem after upgrading to (Alpha)e > OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 ?k >  > /P.Ljt >oA Yes. Bugchecks and sponataneous reboots on a very heavily loaded i> system. We are currently waiting to hear what CSC have to say.  H We went back to 7.2-1 on one test cluster, but still have it on another , so that we can test the fix when it arrives. ___U
 Paul Sture Switzerlandy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:04:59 +0000b> From: Steven_Reece/QRED/Quintiles.QUINTILES@qedi.quintiles.com Subject: Re: OpenVMS CBTH Message-ID: <OF4E2C93C0.38E584FA-ON8025699D.005DB225@qedi.quintiles.com>   Dennis,-I You don't say where you are.  It's possible that a number of folks on the@K list would be willing to help on a consultancy and training basis (help you8J avoid some of the potential pitfalls, make you aware of this and that) but4 they'll need some indication of where you are first.   Steve.          , dman00@my-deja.com on 11/20/2000 03:30:01 AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy) cc:    (bcc: Steven Reece/QRED/Quintiles)t   Subject:  OpenVMS CBT,    E We are predominantly an NT shop but will soon be implementing a largeMG OpenVMS system.  We need to get some training and want to start with anpG introduction to OpenVMS CBT.  Can anyone make a recomendation for this?-   Thanks, Dennis    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:33:27 -0500 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: OpenVMS CBT7 Message-ID: <200011201833_MC2-BB9A-32AD@compuserve.com>0  G         I'll assume that by "CBT" you mean "Computer Based Training" or:D "Computer Aided Instruction" or whatever the current buzz phrase is.  F         Digital used to have such a course.  It required a working VMSJ system and at VTxxx terminal or terminal emulator.  It assumed that you h= adG a DEC style keyboard; e.g. LK401, LK450, LK461, etc.  It would walk you F through logging on, logging off, getting directory listing, creating a< file, printing a file, the basics of the screen editor, etc.  J         Something like this may still be available from Compaq.   You mig= htJ also try Global Knowledge Network (globalknowledge.com)  but I don't see = it! in a quick scan of their catalog.i  J         GKN does offer a three day lecture lab course which they will tea= chJ on your site which might be cheaper than sending a dozen people to live i= nb" the big city for three days. . . .  3 Message text written by INTERNET:dman00@my-deja.com.F >We are predominantly an NT shop but will soon be implementing a largeG OpenVMS system.  We need to get some training and want to start with anyG introduction to OpenVMS CBT.  Can anyone make a recomendation for this?  <a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 02:57:55 GMTA From: infantino7777@my-deja.come Subject: Re: OpenVMS CBT) Message-ID: <8vcobg$i2v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>S  8 AcerSoft provides OpenVMS CBT. Please visit the Web site: http://www.acersoft.com for a complete listing of courses.      H In article <OF4E2C93C0.38E584FA-ON8025699D.005DB225@qedi.quintiles.com>,A   Steven_Reece/QRED/Quintiles.QUINTILES@qedi.quintiles.com wrote:- > 	 > Dennis,,G > You don't say where you are.  It's possible that a number of folks onr thekC > list would be willing to help on a consultancy and training basisg	 (help youBB > avoid some of the potential pitfalls, make you aware of this and	 that) but 6 > they'll need some indication of where you are first. >A > Steve. >n. > dman00@my-deja.com on 11/20/2000 03:30:01 AM >e > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn+ > cc:    (bcc: Steven Reece/QRED/Quintiles)  >6 > Subject:  OpenVMS CBTr > G > We are predominantly an NT shop but will soon be implementing a large F > OpenVMS system.  We need to get some training and want to start with anC > introduction to OpenVMS CBT.  Can anyone make a recomendation for  this?  >r > Thanks, Dennis >.( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.  >e >i    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 03:12:06 GMTi From: slynch11@my-deja.com& Subject: OpenVMS certification exam...) Message-ID: <8vcp62$ilc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hello out there!  I   I am preparing to sit for the OpenVMS exam #010-140.	I was wondering ift
 anyone had  E run across any websites that may offer exam practice questions or anyl information at all.   E If anyone out there has some info. on the exam I would appreciate it.      Thanks in advance!   Shawn Lynch     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:32:31 -0500 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>* Subject: Re: OpenVMS certification exam...> Message-ID: <hshubs-041342.22323120112000@news.mindspring.com>  E In article <8vcp62$ilc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, slynch11@my-deja.com wrote:   J >  I am preparing to sit for the OpenVMS exam #010-140.	I was wondering if >anyone had   C They've come out with OpenVMS certification?  Where can I get more P information on this?   --  G "...run in circles, scream and shout!"    I hope you have good backups.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:33:50 -0500B# From: "azog" <azog@nospam.azog.org>  Subject: remote DECWindows( Message-ID: <3a19a6bd$1_1@nntp2.nac.net>  J There was a recent thread where someone couldn't get DECWindows to displayI to his remote X server. He posted the problem was solved, but didn't postsI the solution, so I'm wondering what my problem is, trying to run remote X  apps.    Here is a log:   $ show display3 %DECW-W-OPENIN, error opening DECW$DISPLAY as input - -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available"6 $ set display/create/node=192.168.1.32/transport=tcpip $ show display       Device:    WSA5:  [super]u     Node:      192.168.1.32      Transport: TCPIP     Server:    0     Screen:    0   $ run decw$examples:icow Cannot open display 6 : non-translatable vms error code: 0xE4A, vms message:8 %system-e-unsupported, unsupported operation or function $ mcr decw$clock# X Toolkit Error: Can't Open displayI% %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204M $ telnet/port=6000 192.168.1.32e) %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.32T; %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host 192.168.1.32, port 6000D( -TELNET-I-ESCAPE, Escape character is ^]
 TELNET> close , %TELNET-S-LCLCLOSED, Local connection closed; -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host 192.168.1.32, port 6000a TELNET> exit    G The remote X server is running, as the telnet to it shows. The remote XaI server has no authorization enabled, allowing all clients to connect. The J set display/create returns fine, and shows me everything is fine. But, the actual connection isn't made.   A Just for yuks, I tried to connect to server 1 on the remote host:9   $ telnet/port=6001 192.168.1.32t) %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.32_4 %TELNET-E-CONNFAIL, Failed to connect to remote host4 -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected   which is as I expected.   ) I'm sure I'm missing something, but what?    thanx :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:57:31 +130059 From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz>i Subject: Re: remote DECWindows3 Message-ID: <4_hS5.37863$SF5.707579@ozemail.com.au>d  K Is this where he had to add the user/transport bit into the security bit ofe the CDE?   Antony      . "azog" <azog@nospam.azog.org> wrote in message" news:3a19a6bd$1_1@nntp2.nac.net...L > There was a recent thread where someone couldn't get DECWindows to displayK > to his remote X server. He posted the problem was solved, but didn't posteK > the solution, so I'm wondering what my problem is, trying to run remote Xn > apps.  >H > Here is a log: >t > $ show display5 > %DECW-W-OPENIN, error opening DECW$DISPLAY as input-/ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available08 > $ set display/create/node=192.168.1.32/transport=tcpip > $ show display >  >     Device:    WSA5:  [super]3 >     Node:      192.168.1.32  >     Transport: TCPIP >     Server:    0 >     Screen:    0 >y > $ run decw$examples:ico  > Cannot open displaye8 > : non-translatable vms error code: 0xE4A, vms message:: > %system-e-unsupported, unsupported operation or function > $ mcr decw$clock% > X Toolkit Error: Can't Open displayI' > %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204n! > $ telnet/port=6000 192.168.1.32i+ > %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.32e= > %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host 192.168.1.32, port 6000e* > -TELNET-I-ESCAPE, Escape character is ^] > TELNET> closet. > %TELNET-S-LCLCLOSED, Local connection closed= > -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host 192.168.1.32, port 6000i > TELNET> exit >h > I > The remote X server is running, as the telnet to it shows. The remote XeK > server has no authorization enabled, allowing all clients to connect. ThecL > set display/create returns fine, and shows me everything is fine. But, the > actual connection isn't made.s >eC > Just for yuks, I tried to connect to server 1 on the remote host:o > ! > $ telnet/port=6001 192.168.1.32p+ > %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.32S6 > %TELNET-E-CONNFAIL, Failed to connect to remote host6 > -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected >c > which is as I expected.e >h+ > I'm sure I'm missing something, but what?  > 
 > thanx :) >T >  >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:07:21 -0500a# From: "azog" <azog@nospam.azog.org>- Subject: Re: remote DECWindows( Message-ID: <3a19ae98$1_1@nntp2.nac.net>  2 actually, checking futher, I find the following in$ sys$manager:decw$server_0_error.log:  2 20-NOV-2000 16:39:54.8 Hello, this is the X serverE This is the DECwindows X11 display server for OpenVMS VAX V7.1-961112 3                 compiled on Nov 12 1996 at 19:15:28e Dixmain address=00019c40( Server is running in bug-compatible mode" Now attach all known txport images Can't start transports  H hmm. Searching for "decw$transports" in sys$manager:decw*.com shows that) decw$startup.com installs several images:e  > $ call decw$install_check "sys$share:decw$transport_tcpip.exe" "/open/shared/header/protected"n  ? So I check to make sure the image is installed as it should be:e  1 $ install list sys$share:decw$transport_tcpip.exe   + DISK$OVMSVAXSYS:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB>.EXEa    DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP;1 0                     Open Hdr Shar     Prot Lnkbl   Oh well, now I'm lost...  D "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> wrote in message- news:4_hS5.37863$SF5.707579@ozemail.com.au...iJ > Is this where he had to add the user/transport bit into the security bit of
 > the CDE? >a > Antony >  >- >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:12:23 +0800A5 From: Netsurfer <netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com>w# Subject: Reset file version number? 8 Message-ID: <ugpj1tgjvvub05n2vj46n56f40n7vb27o9@4ax.com>  @ I used to get 5000+ report files (with same filename) with large version numbers.  F Recently adopt a housekeeping policy, but i hate to key in those large0 nunbers. Had purged while keeping 1000 versions.. I need to reset them to use a smaller numbers.  ; Is there a way to do so without system downtime or stoppingn) application, or renaming the older files?86 (Log files need to match the filenames for referrence)  8 The latest files are in-use most of the time of the day.   Anyone?e        Regards,  	 Netsurferw        ====R For any personal email replies, please remove " sentosa. " from my E-mail address.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:33:13 -0500e, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: Reset file version number?t> Message-ID: <hshubs-7E79F3.22331320112000@news.mindspring.com>  9 In article <ugpj1tgjvvub05n2vj46n56f40n7vb27o9@4ax.com>, l* netsurfer@sentosa.singaporemail.com wrote:  < >Is there a way to do so without system downtime or stopping* >application, or renaming the older files?  0 Change the app so it doesn't keep the file open.   -- rG "...run in circles, scream and shout!"    I hope you have good backups.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:34:04 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a' Subject: Re: Reset file version number?m, Message-ID: <3A19DF12.479F12A4@videotron.ca>   Netsurfer wrote:= > Is there a way to do so without system downtime or stopping-+ > application, or renaming the older files?3  M Just an idea. If the files are written to a directory that is pointed to by asN logical, you could redefine the logical name before a new log file is created.L Point the logical to a new empty directory. This way, the new log files willJ be created with version 1. And then, the old directory will be freeof busy9 files, so you can reduce the version numbers as you wish.n  M If it is a hardcoded directory name, you might consider renaming the existing,K directory to a new name, and then create a new directory with the old name. K This way, when the next log file is created, it goes in that new directory.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:04:17 -0600o! From: "News" <michaela@hkusa.com>   Subject: Ricoh printer questions* Message-ID: <3a1990d2@news.advancenet.net>  L Does anyone have a RICOH Aficai 450 (or any model) printer connected to O/V?I If so, which port (I tried 9000 and 10000) should be used for connection?-   Thanks in advance!  
 Michael An Network Administratorn Human Kinetics michaela@hkusa.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:19:35 -060007 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>i$ Subject: Re: Ricoh printer questions- Message-ID: <3A19BF97.EB4C1D15@earthlink.net>    News wrote:c > N > Does anyone have a RICOH Aficai 450 (or any model) printer connected to O/V?K > If so, which port (I tried 9000 and 10000) should be used for connection?e  + Does it have it's own (Ricoh) network card?0  3 If not, whose network printer server are you using?s  * If your VMS system has Multinet, try this:  $ $ MULT SHOW/CONNECTIONS/SNMP=x.x.x.x   -- f David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/v  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:31:22 -0000k- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)r Subject: Re: RWAST/ Message-ID: <t1j2gqph908675@news.supernews.com>   C jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca (JF Mezei) wrote in <3A18A9CC.B2902C95o @videotron.ca>:o   >Chris Scheers wrote: F >> In particular, during process deletion, RWAST can happen in several
 >> places: >tG >Thanks for the list. I think RWAST is evil and should be outlawed. :-)a >tI >Interesting that a lot but not all of them involve "closure" of channels.( >(during process deletion for instance). >   K My thanks to Chris Scheers for picking up where my technical knowledge ran  
 out of gas...f   ws   -- h3 << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>    Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press  ? ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements **    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:02:06 GMT$= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) ' Subject: Re: sending BREAK to a session 0 Message-ID: <009F3693.B156520A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <Pine.GSO.4.21.0011201248070.2852-100000@matrix.10k.org>, Jake Luck <av2k@10k.org> writes:hI >> >intercepted the command and puts me back i the "Local>" prompt. Being I >> >unseasoned in DEC anthology, I was wondering if anyone can comment on0 >>                    ^^^^^^^^^<  >> ??? a collection of writings? >7# >	a collection of documentations :)7 >@8 >> >some of the conventions. So how would one go either:I >> >1) send a break to the port without getting escaped to the local mode I >> >2) send a suspended "session" a BREAK signal from within the terminal  >> >   local prompt? >> >4 >> Log into the terminal server and use the command: >>   >> DEFINE |p! >> SET    | PORT <n> BREAK REMOTE  >> CHANGE |s >d >Thank you VAXman: >n( >It still doesn't seem to do the trick. 4 >After the "change Port 7 break remote", it shows as > G >---------------------------------------------------------------------- @ >Port  7: (Remote)                      Server: LAT_08002B962036 > G >Character Size:            8           Input Speed:               9600bG >Flow Control:            XON           Output Speed:              9600:G >Parity:                 None           Modem Control:         Disabledd8 >Stop Bits:           Dynamic                            >tG >Access:               Remote           Local Switch:              None G >Backwards Switch:       None           Name:                    PORT_7aG >Break:                Remote           Session Limit:                4aG >Forwards Switch:        None           Type:                      Ansi1G >Default Protocol:        LAT           Default Menu:              None  >c >Preferred Service: None >: >Authorized Groups:   0e >(Current)  Groups:   0  >  >Enabled Characteristics: J >Autobaud,  Autoprompt,  Broadcast,  Failover,  Input Flow Control,  Lock,G >Loss Notification,  Message Codes,  Output Flow Control,  VerificationhI >------------------------------------------------------------------------y >b >and my services is  >-( >---------------------------------------  >Local> show services mcons char >r >Service: MCONSe >Identification: O	 >Ports: 7  >Rating: 902 >Enabled Characteristics:  >	Connections, Queue( >--------------------------------------- >t: >Still, when i type "~", it snaps me to the Local> prompt. >rI >Could this be because I am performing all this on the virtual console by D >telneting to port 23 of the DECServer 700? Is the "~" key in telnet% >correctly remapped to the BREAK key?    SHOW PORT <n> TELNET CLIENT  SHOW PORT <n> TELNET SERVERw  3 Will show you what has been established for TELNET.c  H Most of what you ask is probably available to you if you use the on-line HELP at the server prompt.    E >A second note, I also have Telnet Listeners setup on port 2007 whichGJ >directs to port 7. I notice the even if I do "set port 7 break disabled".I >I was still able to do telnet to port 2007, ^], "send break" to signal al: >break down the port, but that is another issue on itself. > J >In addition, would it be possible to map 2 keys, one to send the break to5 >the port line, and one to drop to the Local> prompt?y   Yes.     DEFINE |* SET    | PORT <n> LOCAL SWITCH {character} CHANGE |   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMd            nO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:23:36 -0600j+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> 7 Subject: RE: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailedMN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D8052849F7@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew, Andrew ..n  H >>> Interesting, you accuse me of being non-technical and then you startH sounding very like Kerry, I am sure that wasn't what you really intended !!<<<    Cool !  J When you start getting down to mud slinging, I know you are running out of ammo ..l   :-) :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]e Sent: November 20, 2000 6:14 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detaileda     Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > " > What a poor excuse for a "rule". >   = If you don't like the rule then direct your criticism to Arneh who devised it.i    H > My experience with your threads generally lead me to believe that yourI > knowledge is a block wide and an inch deep.  You are certainly buzzword L > compatable, and know where to find lots of benchmark data dejur.  But whenJ > pinned down on specific technical issues you either clam up, or redirect them' > discussion to previous "discussions".n >   H Really, for example I don't claim to be an OpenVMS cluster expert, I do H however claim to know a lot about UNIX clusters, I should I developed a E HA cluster for SunOS and later for Solaris. And to augment my lack ofo OpenVMSlG cluster experience I have the benefit of sitting next to a collegue whoI; was an OpenVMS cluster expert before he jumped ship to Sun.   A So I am well placed to say with certainty that people are talking-	 B***S***T-D then they make incorrect comparisons between what is possible with a UNIXB cluster and what is possible with an OpenVMS cluster because they E generally don't appear to have much of a clue about the capabilities nF of UNIX clusters or for that matter what you can do at an applications5 level to make applications services highly available.	  G > I don't claim to be a database expert, nor am I pretentious enough tot appendL > "Architect" to my signature.  However, I've designed and written plenty ofF > operating system code, designed parts of the underpinnings of GalaxyI > (complete with a number of patents pending), written more device drivera codeH > that I would like, worked with Alpha CPU and IO chip designers for newH > systems, and  have 22+ years experience in computers, programming, andK > engineering. My title (Consulting Software Engineer, or I guess as we nowpL > call it at Compaq "Senior Member of Technical Staff") required a corporateJ > board approval of my credentials and experience - so I "think" I can say > that I am technical. >   D So you are technical as well, I don't remember ever suggesting that  you wern't.t  D But I am very intrigued because the reasons why I objected to Rob's C postings (Spiralog, WildFire) etc is that I am technical and I havecB seen too many "Technical" white papers like the Spiralog/WildFire A architecture papers to be convinced by what were obviously works r- that had had some marketing input into them. e  F When you have for example a paper that compares "IDLE latency" without? defining what IDLE latency is (is it lmbench etc) then you as a 
 technical ) person can smell the work of a marketeer.,  H So I am supprised that you appear to be defending Rob since all he seemsG to have done is missread and reproduced source information which had inSH turn too much marketing input into it to be a credible technical source.  H > I think Sun is a fine company.  I have friends (former co-workers) whoG > actually do O/S work there.  I think they compete well with what theyp have,aL > and in many ways I envy them because they have resources to do things that I'H > *know* we could do better if we had just a few more people.  They have beenK > able to make silk purses out of pigs ears for years, and sell them in the_1 > face of better systems from many other vendors.o > H > The cache design for a high-reliable large scale system was just plain poor. H > There isn't much excuse for it, and there isn't much spin to put on it other-J > than to say "We have a fix, here it is" and "We'll make sure we don't toC > this again".  A background memory "scrubber" isn't a fix, it juste	 increases4K > marginally the MTBF.  You really need to hack up a mirrored cache or somerK > other kludge for the current HW.  But hey, UNIX is new to the business ofzJ > 24x376 and so this isn't really a huge sin, you're just learning.  Tru64 isH > lucky in many respects, since they get the benefit of the 25+ years of? > system engineering experience that gave VMS it's reliability.n >   > Interesting, you accuse me of being non-technical and then you; start sounding very like Kerry, I am sure that wasn't what w you really intended !!  C In case you are wondering where this started happening it was your h@ phrase "increases marginally the MTBF". Now it depends what you A mean by increases marginally but a 5-7 x increase in MTBF is not  D what I would call marginal but then being non-technical I would not  know would I :):):).     Regardsu Andrew Harrisonc Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 06:15:42 +0100u  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>7 Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailede+ Message-ID: <VA.00000190.0e1674f5@sture.ch>A  B In article <8vb4rg$dg2$1@lisa.gemair.com>, Jordan Henderson wrote:1 > From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson), > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms09 > Subject: Re: Severity of eBay's ecache problem detailedl" > Date: 20 Nov 2000 07:18:56 -0500 > , > In article <3A190810.22A6BA1A@uk.sun.com>,4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > >"Ebinger . Eric" wrote: > >>  ! > >> > -----Original Message-----t+ > >> > From: woodacre@scala.reading.sgi.coma. > >> > [mailto:woodacre@scala.reading.sgi.com]D > >> > Our new Origin3000 systems are selling very well (our biggest > >> > problem is gettingeC > >> > enough ASICs to meet sales demand). Just lookup SGI on yahoo  > >> > and you will seerC > >> > some press releases of customers buying large numbers of big  > >> > systems - I guess theyo@ > >> > obviously don't have your insight into the future and how# > >> > they should really be buyingt > >> > Compaq systems. > >> > > >> i= > >> Well I looked up SGI on Yahoo and what I found there was-7 > >> SGI's quarterly report that indicated that SGI hadr8 > >> an operating loss of $94 million on revenue of $426; > >> million (that's a loss equal to 22% of their revenue).y > >> i7 > >> That sounds like SGI is certainly heading down thee7 > >> Cray road.  Good luck on turning things around.  Ih9 > >> certainly won't celebrate SGI's demise but I believep1 > >> there is reason to question SGI's ability to 
 > >> survive.1 > >> e > >m& > >Blimey and people accuse me of FUD. > >g > >Pots, black calling a > >l > ; > I can't find any examples of Eric accusing you of FUD.  Ar; > typical ploy of yours is to blame all of us for somethings9 > that any one of us did.  It's not at all fair, but that_ > clearly is not your goal.r > ? > In any case, you ignore completely the essential element thats> > makes FUD objectionable is that it's targetted at customers. > : > It's difficult to see how Eric was directing this at SGI > customers. > H To which I can only point out that Andrew is yet again trying to set us  against each other.I  3 Divide and conquer is a phrase which comes to mind.m   Don't let him drag you into it.h  D If also note that he claims he is a Sun representative working at a B banking customer. Given the no doubt far from cheap rates usually G involved in such an arrangement, his timesheets might make interesting 0A reading. How does he justify the large number of hours he spends l> posting to a newsgroup unrelated to his own area of expertise?  H Unless of course, sowing FUD in a competitor's newsgroup is part of his H job description. Still interesting from the perspective of his claim to  work at a bank though... ___e
 Paul Sture Switzerland.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:37:31 -0600l+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>u' Subject: RE: Sun "uptime" belly laugheroN Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D8052849F2@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,   G >>> And get with the program, even Kerry has reluctantly admitted under I questioning from other posters on this group that what you are arguing isaL only true in specific circumstances. While Kerry was and you still appear to= be trying to establish that it is true in a general sense.>>>u  J Please do not infer that I am somehow backing away from something I stated earlier.  H I never stated it was a solution for every application. There is no suchD thing as the perfect solution for all requirements on any platform.   L To restate - re: shutting down OpenVMS cluster aware PRODUCTION applicationsK with ZERO application availability impact with no middleware or applicatione	 changes --  K For the 5% (small) or so number of applications that require long multi-day I batch jobs or for those environments with power users (developers, systemrF managers etc) that stay logged in for days without logging off, or forK applications that require a permanent connection to the database (inferringtL no load balancing or minimal network failure transparency or recoverability)1 then the process I described may not be suitable.   E While I might argue that even these 5-10% can be solved with a little,F discussion with end users and batch job design, there may be politicalG issues which make this a little more difficult. While there may be someiK applications out there that still require dedicated connections to the backyH end, I suspect most application designers would argue that this is not aF great design. However, there may and likely are, some of these around.  E For the other 90-95% of current OpenVMS host based, two or three tier C cluster aware applications, then the solution described that can berI implemented with no middleware, no application changes and no application1$ availability impact on the Business.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660H Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]  Sent: November 20, 2000 8:48 AMd To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher-     jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:55:10 +0000, andrew harrisone# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:u > I > >An OPS setup for HA isn't complicated to setup provided you don't wanttE > >it to scale which for your scenario is unescessary and since I cano
 > >acheiveK > >your limitted definition of HA using OPS why would I bother with OpenVMSeH > >and RDB. Isn't that the problem with your argument, if you can shut aI > >node down "once users have naturally disconnected" then you don't evenM > >need a cluster. > B > Why would you bother?  How about so that your ignorance would beH > eliminated and you could actually speak with some authority.  Or don't5 > you really care whether you know what you speak of?o >    Tsk tsk, don't get personaln  C And get with the program, even Kerry has reluctantly admitted undere> questioning from other posters on this group that what you are? arguing is only true in specific circumstances. While Kerry wase> and you still appear to be trying to establish that it is true in a general sense.2  > I havn't run OpenVMS clusters but people who have do not agree> with you. I would suggest you take your argument off-line with2 them, perhaps you know more about it than they do.     Andrew Harrisono Enterprise IT Architectr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 14:23:16 -0500p5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ' Subject: Re: Technology of US Electionsd, Message-ID: <8vbtn3$c6ug$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  F Sigh.  Politics and Religion.  Arguments on both topics that make evenI intellegent people seem... well, less than intellegent - myself included.lL I've seen an amazing amount of completely idiotic, inflamitory statements onE both side, and can say with 100% accuracy that if the situations were C reversed - all the opinons would at the same time also be the exact 	 opposite.*  H To be honest *this* is the type of thing that makes people cynical about	 politics.t  I Frankly, I didn't vote this time - I was out-of-state and didn't have theEH time to get to town hall during their business hours (Republican town ==L limited hours) to get an absentee ballot.  While I probably would have votedH for Gore, I'm likely to benefit personally from Bush tax cuts.  The onlyG party I have ever been registered in, is the Republican party, althoughiI usually I claim independent status (in NH you are registered in the partytD you last voted in the primary for, unless you explicitly change yourK registration back).  So there really isn't a lot of skin off my nose eithere way.  L There are a number of things that I think everyone "should" be able to agree; upon *if* they can step back from their partison positions:   J     1)  Everyone who turned out to vote should expect their vote to count.I     2)  It is clear that something is wrong *anywhere* that a significant 	 number oflE          ballots are rejected.  One can expect that the voter did note *intend* to waste           their time.L     3)  It should be the goal of any government state, or federal, to do the BEST jobL           they can to ensure that every vote that CAN be counted IS counted.  G We're all computer professionals here.  We all know that the punch cardtB system used in many areas for voting has a predictable error rate.G Statistically, this is usually insignificant - because you have a clear D winner that wins by something greater than ther error rate -- or theJ specific districts vote doesn't have a clear impact on the overall vote ofI an entire state -- or a specific states vote isn't the deciding factor ini the overall winner.   L Here we have a evenly split vote by the people of the US.  In general, ruralH areas went for Bush, and populated areas went for Gore.  Had the popularJ vote been used, Gore would have won, even if the margin is slim.  The voteK in Florida is so close that the margin of "victory" is within the margin ofoG error in the counting of votes.  While a recount in the entire state oftJ Florida "might" preserve the Bush victory, the error rate is SIGNIFICANTLYL higher in the areas using the punch card system.  IF these systems are foundL in areas where the population is mostly Democratic, then one can expect thatJ the same error rate for all candidates would hold, and the absolute numberC of votes for the winner in those areas would increase - even if thetJ percentage *in that district* stays the same.  Which could tip the results in Gore's favor.  J The democrats did the only reasonable thing they could have done given theL closeness of the vote in Florida - they requested a recount using the methodI defined by Florida law as the BEST way to ensure an accurate count.  They F were under no obligation to ask for recounts in areas where they wouldF expect a more accurate count would favor their opponent.  THAT was the" responsibility of the Republicans.  G The claim that different standards are being used in different areas ofeB Florida for counting votes - misses the point that it already *is*F different.  Because like most states, each district can use completelyE different voting methods - by definition each disctrict has differentoL methods and standards.  The claim that there are no standards for recountingH punch card ballots is also, nonsense.  The Florida law clearly gives theI districts the ability to set a standard, just as they have the ability to  choose the voting method.I  J There are two reasonable arguments that can be made by the Democrats.  TheJ first is that they have followed the law to request what Florida (and mostI states) law permits - a hand recount to determine a more accurate result. J And second, that the design of the ballot in specific areas was not within! the letter of the law in Florida.@  F There really is only a single argument on the Repubican side:  All theI districts should be recounted by hand.  And on this count, they abdicated F their position because they have to have felt that they would not win.  B All of the other arguments come down to accusations (many wild andB unfounded) of illegality in the recount (or the absurd notion thatL recounts - including hand recounts - are not normal and customary in a closeL race).  That I find to be an unfortunate accusation.  The only area where itL appears politics are really involved in a direct way to influence the resultJ is by the Florida Sec of State.  She has undermined the ability for a fair$ and timely recount by the districts.      F jlsue wrote in message <3p0c1tsojkuo48kglbuo1uj6oiheg8ba81@4ax.com>...- >On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:24:43 -0400, JF Mezeie& ><jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >h >>Jordan Henderson wrote:bJ >>> It's the lawyers on Al Gore's side who are taking to the courts tryingH >>> to get even dimples and "pregnant" chad validated as possible votes.G >>> George Bush wants none of this subjective fishing around for votes.e >>J >>But if both side were to agree on a logical and realistic and reasonable way L >>to manually count ballots, things would be much better.  A dimple is not aG >>clear indication of a voter's intentions. But chad is. If the recountf includesK >>votes where the intentions are not clear, the results are just as invalide (ifv# >>not more) than the machine count.l >u@ >Except that with all the handling, and some *very* questionableD >actions by democrat counters, many of those chads seem to be comingA >lose in just ONE candidates direction.  This is highly unlikely.s >s >> >>E >>> Unlike in Yugoslavia, there is a clear statutory process that haseC >>> been laid out well in advance of the election in Florida and isiD >>> being followed.  We'll see if Al Gore and his lawyers will allow >>> it to go forward or not. >>E >>If there had been a clear statutory process, you wouldn't be seeingp
 candidatesD >>suing left and right and lawyers having a field day trying to make	 decisionseK >>without any precedents. If there had been a clear process, there wouldn'tu beI >>politics involved, it would be a simple technical matter to recount them votesi >>after a request. >t? >No, this is wrong.  There IS a statutory process.  It has beenwD >explained, in fact.  However, in our country you can't stop someoneB >form filing suit just because this process has been defined.  TheF >problem is that the Gore camp is ready and willing to accept all lawsB >and statutes that help them get their way, but are also ready andE >willing to try to thwart any and all laws and statutes that stand int >their way.e >  >>I >>This reminds me of Star Trek where Kirk gives some master computer that J >>controls all of a planet a riddle the computer hasn't been programmed toI >>solve, and the computer starts to emit smoke and eventually dies with ae niceK >>show of fireworks. Seems to me that the election process has been given avG >>problem it hasn't been programmed to solve and it doesn't know how tou handleI >>this. As a result, lawyers are going nuts, producing all sorts of legallH >>lawsuits left and right, suing over the right to sue, trying to get anL >>injunction to prevent another one from suing, forcing the certification of >>incomplete results etc etc.v >oD >Well, you're putting too much weight on these issues.  It'll all beG >resolved without dragging the country through an impossible situation. * >We DO have a defined line of progression. >o2 >Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq. >(get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Nov 2000 16:25:33 -0500* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)' Subject: Re: Technology of US Electionsa+ Message-ID: <9VsFwzmGgRD4@eisner.decus.org>i  \ > In article <8uucco$5p$3@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes: >> hK >> If Bush barely scrapes in, and the popular vote is still overwhelmingly  L >> in favour of Gore, and only 1 or 2 electors need to swing over, I'm sure 4 >> they will.  They will become Heroes of Democracy. >> k  < Define overwhelminghly.  I would not say a difference of 263< thousand votes in a total of over 101 million overwhelming. < Less than one percent doesn't fit the definition in my book.  A On the same subject, but on another tangent, I find it odd that a > large number of the people chirping about the election here inF cov are not coming from US addresses.  Americans abroad, or just wags?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:19:29 -0500i5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e' Subject: Re: Technology of US Elections , Message-ID: <8vc81k$cb1q$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  I Hmmm.  But a < 1000 vote difference in a single state shows the converse?i  E The truth is that it is so close that either side can claim that they 
 "should" win.n  K I like the idea of a game of chance (or hand-to-hand combat ;-)  to decide.g    ? Marty Kuhrt wrote in message <9VsFwzmGgRD4@eisner.decus.org>... D >> In article <8uucco$5p$3@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes: >>>uK >>> If Bush barely scrapes in, and the popular vote is still overwhelmingly:L >>> in favour of Gore, and only 1 or 2 electors need to swing over, I'm sure5 >>> they will.  They will become Heroes of Democracy.m >>>r > = >Define overwhelminghly.  I would not say a difference of 263s< >thousand votes in a total of over 101 million overwhelming.= >Less than one percent doesn't fit the definition in my book.5 > B >On the same subject, but on another tangent, I find it odd that a? >large number of the people chirping about the election here in G >cov are not coming from US addresses.  Americans abroad, or just wags?d >.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:51:13 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionso, Message-ID: <3A199CCC.EF802425@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:aF > drops. Thus a manual recount statewide would still likely favour the. > Democrats. If this is true it is disturbing.  L Why would this be disturbing ? The goal is to acheive an accurate result. IfM the voting technology results in a certain percentage of votes being rejectedkM when human observation would be able to reveal a clear voting intention, thent what is wrong with it ?   L It is to Bush's advantage to allow the recounts because his win will be moreH valid.  If there are doubts at to what the "real" count was, then Bush'sK victory won't be a clean victory.  If Bush "survives" the recount, then hisaK victory will have more value exactly because he survived a recount which ist  beleived to favour his opponent.    M It would be more disturbing if the "system" were to officially accept a count 3 which is known to be incomplete (mechanical count).d  M The above is like Microsoft knowingly releasing software with bugs in it justmM because the marketing department had already announced the fixed release datet etc etc.  L The flaw is in not setting the rules at the voting booths. In Canada, at theJ booths, it is clearly written that if you do not fill the ballot as shown,N your vote will not be counted. In Florida, there should be a similar rule thatL if your punched card has chads or dimples, it will NOT be counted. This way,H during a recount, there would not be any debate on what is valid or not.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Nov 2000 20:26:25 -0500* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)' Subject: Re: Technology of US Electionsr+ Message-ID: <Wa2zta4iP3JS@eisner.decus.org>a  d In article <8vc81k$cb1q$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:K > Hmmm.  But a < 1000 vote difference in a single state shows the converse?t  2 Nope, just nattering on the use of overwhelmingly.  G > The truth is that it is so close that either side can claim that theys > "should" win.a > M > I like the idea of a game of chance (or hand-to-hand combat ;-)  to decide.- >   @ Perhaps they could do a "Survivor" type show!  Or perhaps a live2 "Lord of the Flies" style drama!  YES, great idea!  9 Definitely more entertaining!  Think of the ratings!  I'm6@ surprized the networks haven't banded together to _demand_ it!  ? I doubt either would last long without their "handlers", but its< would sure be fun to watch.  I can't imagine either of theseA weinerdog presidental candidates have had the silver spoon out ofy their mouths for very long.   A I want to see Bush eat a bug!  I want to see Gore munch on a rat!  Hee, hee!  LOL!o   > A > Marty Kuhrt wrote in message <9VsFwzmGgRD4@eisner.decus.org>... E >>> In article <8uucco$5p$3@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nlr > (Phillip Helbig) writes: >>>>L >>>> If Bush barely scrapes in, and the popular vote is still overwhelminglyM >>>> in favour of Gore, and only 1 or 2 electors need to swing over, I'm surea6 >>>> they will.  They will become Heroes of Democracy. >>>> >>= >>Define overwhelmingly.  I would not say a difference of 263 = >>thousand votes in a total of over 101 million overwhelming.e> >>Less than one percent doesn't fit the definition in my book. >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:00:37 -0500 0 From: Glenn and Mary Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>' Subject: Re: Technology of US Electionse' Message-ID: <3A19E555.292887CF@gce.com>h    I'll make a couple short points.K 1. The object of an election is not to count every vote; it is to determineiH who got more votes. A completely random process that eliminates the same= fraction of each candidate's votes does not alter the result.eF 2. There are several different types of machines in use, so any randomL processes the machines have may differ. Thus one needs to correct mechanicalO totals for the different error rates of different machines. This might possiblyoM be done by test "ballots" (without names etc.) to see how many get dropped byc
 each machine.bL 3. While manual counts can be very accurate, reports about taped over holes,M piles of chad, ballots in the wrong piles, tired counters and election judgestI becoming frustrated with the time needed to judge questionable ballots do K not convince me that in this case a better result is to be expected (in the-H sense of providing a reproducible count free of bias toward a candidate)I than a machine count. I see little to gain by manual recounts anywhere ine terms of accuracy.Q 4. Computing the relative losses due to different mechanical effects in differentoP areas is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. So would checking for human bias inO recounts. One can ask simple questions like "does the recount find votes in the N same ratio as the original machine count? If not, why not?" and do some double counting to calibrate.  M 5. Unfortunately the bloody thing is so close that these statistical niceties S are down in noise level, and I don't see anything that would happen to change this..Q Thus Fred's idea of a gladiator battle (and perhaps mine of permitting any weapontT either could devise) makes as much sense. Perhaps the thing to do is to find someoneW who might be truly distinguished for whom electors might vote and ignore the candidatespY altogether. How about drafting Colin Powell or Norm Schwartzkopf for example? Or for thatgY matter Libby Dole? Perhaps better people yet could be suggested. (BOY is this off topic!)n     Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > K > Hmmm.  But a < 1000 vote difference in a single state shows the converse?u >  [...]e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:04:14 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u' Subject: Re: Technology of US Elections , Message-ID: <3A19CA0A.5184D2E8@videotron.ca>   Marty Kuhrt wrote:B > Perhaps they could do a "Survivor" type show!  Or perhaps a live4 > "Lord of the Flies" style drama!  YES, great idea!   How about: gN "Who want to be a president ?" with Regis Philbin as host. The big question isN whether the winner would be the one to get the fastest fingers question first,< or the one who wins the most money in the main questions....   Just think of the ratings...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:23:47 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h' Subject: Re: Technology of US Elections*, Message-ID: <3A19DCAA.90816948@videotron.ca>   Glenn and Mary Everhart wrote:V > either could devise) makes as much sense. Perhaps the thing to do is to find someoneY > who might be truly distinguished for whom electors might vote and ignore the candidates [ > altogether. How about drafting Colin Powell or Norm Schwartzkopf for example? Or for thate[ > matter Libby Dole? Perhaps better people yet could be suggested. (BOY is this off topic!)a  M Saturday night live had the good suggestion of the "Odd Couple" (both of themi
 get the job).o0 Or perhaps Bush gets 2 years, Gore gets 2 years.  K I think that NBC should provide West Wing's  Mr Bartlet as president of themM USA along with his staff. (and all the writers in Hollywood as support). TheyuN are already well versed in what happens. In exchange, NBC would have exclusiveK access to the White House and West Wing to shoot their weekly series (whichn would become a documentary).  S The only major problem with the above is that Martin Sheen was not born in the USA.c  L Here is another thought: Bobby Palmer as president of the USA. He'd downsizeN and sabotage the US government down to a level where it could be bought by anyL upstart corporation. It would be a fierce fight between Sun and Microsoft on# who gets to buy the USA government.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:03:37 +0010r% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aur Subject: Test only -- sorryu5 Message-ID: <01JWT3912RLE006NB0@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>r   Test   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:32:13 -0400v- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>v# Subject: TPU bug ? (cut large part)f, Message-ID: <3A19C28B.7586B6CE@videotron.ca>  M Editing a postscript file which hexadecimal data. Maximum record length of 76 $ bytes. File is variable length file.    M So, I select a whole bunch of that hexadecimal text, and try to CUT it. I geth the message:  ( 				"Line truncated to 65535 characters"    L The file is 3750 lines long, and I am trying to cut about 3500 lines from it
 (about 270k).s  M I don't ever recall seing such a limit in how much one can cut/paste. Is thatt> something about my process quota, or a hard limit in TPU/EVE ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:47:31 GMTp From: jmoss@huffmancorp.com ( Subject: Re: VS-3100 with RX33 attached?) Message-ID: <8vc9m2$5rm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  > In article <slrn91im3j.164f.rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal>,   rivie@teraglobal.com wrote:*G > In article <8vbhtd$fq7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, jeffmoss@my-deja.com wrote: D > >I'm supporting several dozen VS-2000s in the field with RX33 5.25E > >inch floppy dirves in them.  All my in house VS-2000s have died ofoC > >hard disk failure. (They had ST-251s in them.)  But I still haveeG > >at least six VS-3100s left.  So I'd like to pull the RX23 (3.5 inch)iE > >out of one of them and put in an RX33.  I tried just switching therE > >drives but the 3100 still thinks the RX33 is an RX23.  Even at thei > >triple chevron prompt.a >b
 > It depends.f >e? > If you are plugging the floppy into the hard disk/SCSI/floppyi: > controller of a VAXstation, I don't think it's possible. >r? > If your floppy drive is connected to a SCSI floppy controllere: > which is, in turn, connected to one of the SCSI ports of> > the VAXstation, you can. The SCSI floppy controller uses the> > drive select to which the floppy drive responds to determine? > whether the driver is an RX23, RX33, or RX26. You'll probablyt< > have trouble reading RX50s as there were arguments between< > VMS and the SCSI floppy firmware about who was responsible: > for the software interleave used on RX50s that were only7 > resolved in the most recent versions of the firmware.e > -- > Roger Ivie' > TeraGlobal Communications Corporation ( > 1770 North Research Park Way Suite 100 > Logan, UT 84341o > mailto:rivie@teraglobal.coma > phoneto:(435)787-0555e > faxto:(435)787-0516  >t@ > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----C > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!o@ > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- >iD I'm just plugging into the hard disk/SCSI/floppy controler.  I don'tB know anything about a SCSI floppy controler.  But I'd buy one in aC second if it would make this problem go away.  If you have any info . to get me started searching I'd appreciate it.  C I also have been working on a program named ODS2 by Paul Nankervis. B It can read RX23s on, among other things, WinNT.  But it looks forB the phrase DECFILE11B in the home block and RX33s have DECFILE11A.@ If you know anything about that I'd appreciate hearing about it.  +                           Thanks in advance.&                              Jeff Moss    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.t   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Nov 2000 19:48:48 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)T Subject: Re: [FREEWARE] MAILBOX : MIME-enabled user-friendly mail client for OpenVMS, Message-ID: <8vbv70$bqv@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  Z In article <YEG54a7Nw4GI@eisner.decus.org>, koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:? >In article <8v5vk4$6pk$1@news5.isdnet.net>, "Patrick LE QUERE"s& ><patrick@NOSPAM.lequere.net> writes:  >> Hi all, u >>  $ >> Announcing MAILBOX for OpenVMS !  >> t >mH >   OK, tried it.  OpenVMS Alpha 7.2-1, Multinet 4.3A, DEC 3000 M600S on= >   an ODS-5 disk with DCL extended parsing enabled.  PatchessG >   VMS721_SYS-V0100, VMS721_ACRTL-V0200, and prerequisites installed.  D >   DEC C argument case preservation and file name case preservation >   enabled. >a >   Some bugs: >i  & I tried it too with different results.  
 $ mu show/ver>[ Process Software MultiNet V4.2 Rev A-X, COMPAQ AlphaServer DS10 466 MHz, OpenVMS AXP V7.2-1o  K On my system it wouldn't send any mail with an attachment.  When I tried it  put up:   L      Couldn't send message                                                         %   SMTP server returned an error code    E and no message was sent.  Messages without an attachment went out ok.s  I >   4) opening the folder list or the folder is slow (12 folders pointingtD >      to a total of 290 files, not very many messages saved without >      external files) >   K I'll second that.  The list of folders came up quickly enough, but I keep a I lot of old mail messages around in my MAIL folder, 3805 at this time (ok,aH it is time to do some cleaning up!).  I didn't have the patience to waitK for the MAIL folder to list.  It looks like MAILBOX is trying to put all ofiK the mail message titles into a scroll list, but such a list is way too longeG to deal with in general.  There is no direct equivalent of the MAIL DIRhG command so you can't subselect.  It would be extraordinarily helpful ifaG the scroll list was, like in mail, restricted to 20 or so entries, and hN there were "next page", "previous page", and "filter" commands, where "filter"G would load the list based on the equivalent of DIR/SINCE= or DIR/FROM=.g I didn't say that very clearly.     @   [ big mail folder ]  -> FILTER (DIR/whatever)  -> list browserM                           (by date,source, etc.)    prev,next,pageup,pagedownc  H 6) There is glitch running MAILBOX in a decterm when I use the cursor toJ move down the "Dossier : NEWMAIL - 18 message(s)" list at 132 chars/line. I At first the area to the right of the date is white.  As the cursor movessJ down this area is drawn black, and on moving the cursor up or down it doesK not revert to white.  The limit of this effect appears to be at 80 columns,0< ie, parts of the program seem to assume an 80 col. terminal.  I >   5) seems like X is exit everywhere except the top menu, where Quit isiF >      used in violation of it's usual sense in VMS (generally EXIT isE >      SAVE changes and QUIT, QUIT is get out without saving changes)e  K One the top menu there are no keyboard shortcuts, you have to use the menu   system.   J Most of the menus scroll around if the cursor goes off the end.  It would L be generally be better if they stopped at the limits.  Ie, in the first menuG if you hold down the down arrow it cycles around and around rather thane stopping at QUIT.   K There are no shortcuts for moving large numbers of messages from folder to aG folder.  It appears that this must be done one at a time, which can be hK really painful if you decide to move 100 messages, all from "John" from oneo folder to another! -   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:31:29 +0100.5 From: "Patrick LE QUERE" <patrick@NOSPAM.lequere.net>nT Subject: Re: [FREEWARE] MAILBOX : MIME-enabled user-friendly mail client for OpenVMS, Message-ID: <8vc566$14q7$1@news4.isdnet.net>  G >    1) every time I try to save an attachment I get a 1 block file anda< >       "Could not process attachment, Disk quota exceeded",< >       disk quotas are disabled (no quota.sys in [000000]),I >       there is plenty of disk space (I've extracted the same attachmentd- >       via other means after trying MAILBOX)   E OK, that's interesting. This bug had never been reported before. I'll  investigate.  K >    2) can't find equivalent to MAIL SET FILE command (to change to a mail G >       file other than MAIL.MAI, I have some folders in a second file)1  ' I'm afraid this is not supported yet...e   >    Some kinks: >nI >    1) you might consider moving the English language link to the top ofdJ >       the French page, I was running through babelfish before I found it   Done !  H >    2) when I downloaded RESET_BACKUP.COM via Netscape 3.0 Gold it cameE >       out with embedded <CR> which caused a file name syntax error,i( >       set file/attr=rfm:stm fixed this  K Next release will be zipped so that I can get rid of this procedure. I will5B also provide the objects, and have them linked by the installationD procedure, so that users do not encounter any problem with different versions of VMS.  H >    3) the welcome and other messages are in English (how did you know,G >       VMSINSTAL default?), but I see Dossier instead of Folder when Ig >       open a foldero  G English language is the default, but you may switch to French using the A preferences screen. "Dossier" instead of folder is a (minor) bug.   J >    4) opening the folder list or the folder is slow (12 folders pointingE >       to a total of 290 files, not very many messages saved withoutu >       external files)   L Well, I'm surprised as I have tested Mailbox with more messages and folders.G I may need to rewrite the procedure that displays the list of messages.tJ >    5) seems like X is exit everywhere except the top menu, where Quit isG >       used in violation of it's usual sense in VMS (generally EXIT isnF >       SAVE changes and QUIT, QUIT is get out without saving changes)  % Actually, you may use F10 everywhere.  I'll rename "Quit" to "Exit".s   -- Patrick LE QUERE http://patrick.lequere.net   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Nov 2000 16:46:41 -0500* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)2 Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE: Technology of US elections]+ Message-ID: <2bjGEvH+MzFh@eisner.decus.org>l  [ In article <8v1382$p7f$2@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes: C >> George W's own state prefers the manual counting method. Perhaps-A >> the Democrats should suggest a manual recount for the whole ofn- >> Florida using the Texas counting rules !! J > G > Right---George W. actually signed legislation in Texas which favours e > hand counts. > G > I find myself agreeing with Andrew much more on politics than on VMS!n  A And what the law in Texas defined was what ballots are consideredo? valid and which are not.  Chads with one or two hanging cornerss; are OK; three, four and pregnant are not.  It also made thei1 standard statewide instead of county by county.     @ Of course, you're not about to hear that on the severly liberal,< openly Republican hostle, national news channels.  When this@ issue was smugly brought up by Ted Koppel as he was "moderating"@ a discussion between a Bush and Gore person, he wouldn't let the= Bush supporter fully answer the question.  He would interjectt? "but, Bush signed a law in Texas to do hand counts" every thirde@ word.  The Senator that was trying to explain how Bush signed in= the law to make the standard statewide and avoid this type ofgA subjective counting practice was not allowed to finish.  Typical.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:17:01 -0500c5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n2 Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE: Technology of US elections], Message-ID: <8vc7u8$cb0i$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  L You are absolutely wrong.  I heard the entire Texas law quoted.  In fact, inL Texas even dimpled votes are counted.  In fact, in most case law, the courtsF have held for the most liberal methods for ensuring a vote is counted.  C The fact that it is statewide is a spurrious argument.  The ballotsaD themselves are different in each voting district.  The fact that theG descretion is pushed down to common sense by the canvassing boards is anJ perfectly reasonable thing to do.  If you argue that the manual recount isJ invalid because each voting district can use different standards, then youJ should also argue that the vote itself was invalid because each ballot wasI different - and the butterfly ballot wasn't fair.  You can't have it bothhK ways.  In both cases, the state gave the districts the discretion to designeG their own ballots, and to interpret them if the results are called intoe	 question.n    ? Marty Kuhrt wrote in message <2bjGEvH+MzFh@eisner.decus.org>...tL >In article <8v1382$p7f$2@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes: D >>> George W's own state prefers the manual counting method. PerhapsB >>> the Democrats should suggest a manual recount for the whole of- >>> Florida using the Texas counting rules !!i >>G >> Right---George W. actually signed legislation in Texas which favourse >> hand counts.s >>H >> I find myself agreeing with Andrew much more on politics than on VMS! >eB >And what the law in Texas defined was what ballots are considered@ >valid and which are not.  Chads with one or two hanging corners< >are OK; three, four and pregnant are not.  It also made the0 >standard statewide instead of county by county. >eA >Of course, you're not about to hear that on the severly liberal,S= >openly Republican hostle, national news channels.  When thiseA >issue was smugly brought up by Ted Koppel as he was "moderating" A >a discussion between a Bush and Gore person, he wouldn't let theo> >Bush supporter fully answer the question.  He would interject@ >"but, Bush signed a law in Texas to do hand counts" every thirdA >word.  The Senator that was trying to explain how Bush signed ine> >the law to make the standard statewide and avoid this type ofB >subjective counting practice was not allowed to finish.  Typical.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.650 ************************