1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 22 Nov 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 652       Contents:6 (Question) X25 Server Side Programmin(PVC) on Open VMS* Re: attunity product installation comments> Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server> Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server> Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server' Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed   Re: DEFINE/KEY and recall buffer DEFRAG with BACKUP/IMAGE Re: DEFRAG with BACKUP/IMAGE Re: DEFRAG with BACKUP/IMAGE' Re: How fast ZIP compress on Alpha4000? ) Re: Looking for RJ45-to-ThinWire adapter. 2 Networking VaxStationII with DEQNA Ethernet TCP/IP6 Re: Networking VaxStationII with DEQNA Ethernet TCP/IP% Post your FREE Classified Ad position  Question on using VMS Mail Re: Question on using VMS Mail Re: Question on using VMS Mail Re: Question on using VMS Mail Re: Question on using VMS Mail Re: remote DECWindows  Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: TCP/IP 5.0A ECO Appears  Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US Elections Re: Technology of US elections  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:58:13 +0900 1 From: "Sungjoo Kwon" <ksj2348@mail.posdata.co.kr> ? Subject: (Question) X25 Server Side Programmin(PVC) on Open VMS ( Message-ID: <8vfkkc$i5q$2@news.nuri.net>   Hi everyone.  % I 'm a novice programmer on Open VMS. J I've just been assigned the task of a server side network programming(PVC)K using Open VMS system service routine.  Unfortunately I don't have any kind = of a x25 programmer's guide book. This factor is annoying me.   H I 'd like to know how to  program x.25 server side network module on PVCE base and whitch difference is between SVC and PVC in call setting up?   5 I'd like to find out clearly how to set up l the PVC.   ) please let me know, so that I can fix it.     I attach  a part of the program.  < ============================================================ 4 PVC Setting up call = =============================================================  // mailbox & Network device ( static $DESCRIPTOR(mbx_name, "SYS$NET");& static $DESCRIPTOR(dev_name, "_NWA0");     int wwX25MailboxSetup(){         int     vc,stat,status;          int     i;  struct EVENT p_event;  .         wwX25ModuleTrace("wwX25MailboxSetup");    for(i=0;i < VC_CHANNEL;i++){ 8          gp_gs->device_ref[vc].line_status = DISCONNECT;%   gp_gs->device_ref[i].proc == FALSE;   }        /* Assign a channel */ #      status = sys$assign(&mbx_name,         &mbx_chan, 	        0, 
        0);  printf("=======%d\n",status);      check_status(status);    /* Asynchronous QIO Setup */       status = sys$qio(0,        mbx_chan,        IO$_READVBLK,        &mbx_iosb,         wwX25SignalTrap,         p_event,         &mbx_mess,         sizeof(struct mbx_mess), 	        0, 	        0, 	        0, 
        0);    printf("=======%d\n",status);      check_status(status);           return(SS$_NORMAL);  }     , int wwX25VcSetupRqst(struct EVENT *p_event){&         int     vc,stat,status,vc_idx;          struct  EVENT    *p_new;         struct  EVENT    *p;  -         wwX25ModuleTrace("wwX25VcSetupRqst");     vc = p_event->vc;  ,         memset(&gp_gs->device_ref[vc], 0x00,   sizeof(struct device_ref));   7         gp_gs->device_ref[vc].line_status = DISCONNECT;   *         if (gp_gs->device_ref[vc].discon){5                 gp_gs->device_ref[vc].discon = FALSE;                  sys$setast(0);/                 lib$insqti(p_event, &fre_root);                  sys$setast(1);  #                 return(SS$_NORMAL); 	         }   +         gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan = 0;     status = SYS$ASSIGN(&dev_name, #    &gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan,     0,     &mbx_name);  ,  check_status(status); /* Check for error */    status = SYS$QIOW( 0,#    &gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan,     IO$_ACCESS|IO$M_ACCEPT,     gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_iosb,    0, 0, 0, 
    &ncb_desc,     0, 0, 0, 0);   ,  check_status(status); /* Check for error */  A         if (!(gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_iosb[0] & STS$M_SUCCESS)) {   status = SYS$QIOW( 0,"   &gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan,   IO$_ACCESS|IO$M_ABORT,   gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_iosb, 
   0, 0, 0,   &ncb_desc,   0, 0, 0, 0);  	         }          else {                 p->vc = vc;             wwX25GetFreeQueue(&p); 2          memcpy(p, p_event, sizeof(struct EVENT));            sys$qio(0, 0                  gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan,+                  IO$_READVBLK|IO$M_LOCKBUF, .                  gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_iosb,                  wwX25RcvAst,                   p, .                  gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_buff,                  PACKET_SIZE,                   0,                   0,                   0,                   0);  5          gp_gs->device_ref[vc].line_status = CONNECT; ,          gp_gs->device_ref[vc].proc = FALSE;
         };           return(SS$_NORMAL);  }   ' void wwX25RcvAst(struct EVENT *p_event)  {          int     stat,status;         int     vc,tmpChannel;         int     tim_id;          int     i,r_err;         struct  EVENT    *q;  (         wwX25ModuleTrace("wwX25RcvAst");           vc = p_event->vc;   >         if (gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_iosb[0] & STS$M_SUCCESS ){&                 wwX25GetFreeQueue(&q);9                 memcpy(q, p_event, sizeof(struct EVENT));   &                 memcpy( p_event->iosb,5                         gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_iosb, +                         sizeof(short) * 4);   F                 memcpy( p_event->wwdata, gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_buff,%                         PACKET_SIZE);                    if (DEBUG){ <                         for ( i=0; i < PACKET_SIZE ; i++ ) {  / printf("%0x,",gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_buff[i]); <                                 if ( i == 50 ) printf("\n");                         }                  }   "   status = wwX25SendData(p_event);  @                 //Real situation IO$_READVBLK|IO$M_LOCKBUF"                 stat = sys$qio( 0,?                                 gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan, :                                 IO$_READVBLK|IO$M_LOCKBUF,=                                 gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_iosb, ,                                 wwX25RcvAst,"                                 q,=                                 gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_buff, ,                                 PACKET_SIZE,"                                 0,"                                 0,"                                 0,#                                 0); 	         }          else {J                 printf("<wwX25RcvAst> Abnormal Iosb (vc=%d,Iosb=%d\n",=                          vc,gp_gs->device_ref[vc].r_iosb[0]);      status = sys$qiow( 0, #     gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan,      IO$_DEACCESS, !     gp_gs->device_ref[vc].w_iosb,      0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0);  -   sys$dassgn(gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan);   ,          gp_gs->device_ref[vc].psi_chan = 0;  8          gp_gs->device_ref[vc].line_status = DISCONNECT;,          gp_gs->device_ref[vc].proc = FALSE;	         }            sys$setast(0);'         lib$insqti(p_event, &eve_root);          sys$setast(1);           return;  } = =============================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:22:46 -0500 4 From: "John L Ferguson" <John.L.Ferguson@compaq.com>3 Subject: Re: attunity product installation comments 6 Message-ID: <8vei3p$qne$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  L Yes, there is a problem with the name of the savesets in the self extractingG executable.  I will close the loop with Attunity to fix this and/or the K OpenVMS web site.  International Software Group (ISG) changed their name to J Attunity and renamed Navigator to Connect.  Some of the details around the name change are not in sync.  I The errors during the installation can be eliminated by answering "No" to J the "Do you want Attunity Connect Demo Tables to be created as part of theH installation procedure?" query.  This was documented in the installation notes on the OpenVMS web site.  L We tried to be clear as possible on what is provided in the Attunity ConnectL "On Platform" package and what comes directly from Attunity.  I'd appreciateI some constructive criticism on how to communicate the delta so that I can  modify the web site at= http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/attunity/.   
 John Ferguson  OpenVMS eBusiness    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:04:03 -0500 9 From: "Steven Shamlian" <not dot an at earthling dot net> G Subject: Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server 2 Message-ID: <8vekfm$k11$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  G <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message news:00112022271318@antinode.org...  >    Mr. Shamlian: >  > > LATCP> show services > [...]  > F >    Good start.  Try "MCR LATCP SHOW NODE".  Are incoming connections
 > enabled?   Yep.   > > from the term server.  > E >    Is the terminal server LAT-only or LAT-or-TELNET?  (I never used I > anything newer than a DECserver 200.) At the "LOCAL>" prompt, try "SHOW > > SERVICES" (See HOBBES?) and "HELP CONNECT" ("/LAT" needed?).  I The terminal server is LAT-only, and there is no "Show services" command. D The show command only shows settings for the terminal server itself.  C >    Enable outgoing connections, if necessary ("MCR LATCP SET NODE / > /CONN=BOTH"), and try "SET HOST /LAT HOBBES".   % Here's what  LATCP> SHOW NODE yields:   J Node Name:   HOBBES                         LAT Protocol Version:      5.3 Node State:  On < Node Ident:  @SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR.SYSMSGS]HOBBES_ANNOUNCE.TXT  J Incoming Connections:  Enabled              Incoming Session Limit:   NoneJ Outgoing Connections:  Enabled              Outgoing Session Limit:   NoneJ Service Responder:     Disabled             Announcements:         Enabled  J Circuit Timer (msec):        80             Keepalive Timer (sec):      20J Retransmit Limit (msg):       8             Node Limit (nodes):       NoneJ Multicast Timer (sec):       60             CPU Rating:                  0J Maximum Unit Number:       9999             Extra Datalink Buffers:      9J Queue Limit:                 24             Forward Session Limit:      16   User Groups:     0 Service Groups:  0 Service Classes: 1  3 Service Name     Status      Rating  Identification # HOBBES           Available     79 D + @SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR.SYSMSGS]HOBBES_ANNOUNCE  .TXT   =+=Steven Shamlian=+=    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:37:06 -0500 9 From: "Steven Shamlian" <not dot an at earthling dot net> G Subject: Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server 2 Message-ID: <8vf4fl$jgo$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  ' Sorry, forgot to asnwer this last part.    >try "SET HOST /LAT HOBBES".  # That worked.  I got a login prompt.    =+=Steven Shamlian=+=    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:11:13 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.orgG Subject: Re: Creating a "service" to access a VAX via a terminal server ) Message-ID: <00112119111315@antinode.org>       Mr. Shamlian:   > >try "SET HOST /LAT HOBBES".% > That worked.  I got a login prompt.   (    Sounds as if the VAX is happy enough.  K > The terminal server is LAT-only, and there is no "Show services" command. F > The show command only shows settings for the terminal server itself.  G    Really?  My memory grows dimmer by the minute, but I thought that on H the DECserver 200 there were "SHOW SERVER" and "SHOW SERVICES" commands,B and that "SHOW SERV" always gave me the one I didn't want.  I'd beC surprised if yours lacked a way to see the available services.  (Of & course, it wouldn't be the first time.  H    Other than the "Node Ident:" data, your "LATCP> SHOW NODE" looks likeC mine (VAXsta and AlpSta), and while I don't have a terminal server, F either computer can do a SET HOST /LAT to the other, so I'd guess that your host setup is ok.  H    I'm about out of ideas.  How many times have you rebooted the things?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 01:45:57 GMT * From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>0 Subject: Re: DCL symbol substitution hint needed) Message-ID: <8vf8gk$khg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   , In article <3A071E5A.4A704770@videotron.ca>,0   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: > Maulis Adam wrote:. > >    It is not specific to the lexicals only > > 1 > >    This is a general DCL symbol-substitution.  > D > I know about ' being used at the "command line". However, I have a feeling 5 > that parsing inside of lexicals is quite different.  >  > for instance:  > B > $write sys$output  "To print a "" you need to double the quotes"= > $write sys$output  "But inside a lexical such as ''F$TRNLNM  ("SYS$NODE")' you  > don't need to double"  > C > I have to assume that stuff between a lexical's ( and ) is parsed  differently B > (or at least nested differently) than stuff at the command line. >   G Here's a better answer to this than my previous posts. It also contains 
 new insights.   ! Convention: ' = single apostrophe %             " = single quotation mark   : The difference is that when you have an expression such as  "     "start ''f$string("def")' end"  D the quotation mark just before the substring "def" does not turn off, quote mode as it does in expressions such as       "start "def" end".  4 This is actually sensible if you want SYMBOL_NAME in  (     "start ''f$string(SYMBOL_NAME)' end"  B to be evaluated as a symbol and not in "quote-mode" as a characterB string. Therefore, enclosing "SYMBOL_NAME" inside a pair of singleF quotation marks would then have to cause "SYMBOL_NAME" to be evaluatedA as a character string in quote mode because this is what normally = happens when you surround a symbol by single quotation marks.   A What is "quote-mode"? I define quote mode as that mode during DCL F command input scanning in which the command interpreter preserves caseG and spaces, and interprets two consecutive quotation marks as an actual B single quotation mark. Also, two leading apostrophes are needed toG request symbol substitution in quote mode. Moreover, during quote mode, D if a single quotation mark is encountered, subsequent characters areF treated as if they were not between quotation marks, which I call non-= quote mode (or quote-mode off). If a single quotation mark is ? encountered while in non-quote mode, "quote mode" is turned on.     (ev*aluate :== write sys$output)   DCL> ev "start "def" end" 
 start DEF end  DCL>& DCL> ev "start ''f$string("def")' end"
 start def end  DCL>  C Notice that in the first case, "def" is upcased, because the " just C before the substring "def" turns off quote-mode. The next quotation @ mark turns quote mode back on, thus "end" appears in lower case.  B When a lexcial function is embedded in a quoted string, the secondD quotation mark (probably for the reason given above) does *not* turnB off quote mode. That is why you use single quotation marks in thatD case. Double quotation marks will work if spaces and certain specialF characters are not present in the enclosed substring, and if you don'tB care about case. Therefore, it is *better* to use single quotation marks.  F Interestingly, you *do* have to double up the quotation marks once forE each outer layer of nested lexical functions (see the example below). A You only get a "break" from the usual doubling for the most outer F level. Notice in the example below that the cases of "asdf" and "zero"A are preserved, proving that these strings are evaluated in "quote D mode". Also, note that 'zero' doesn't get evaluated. This is correct& because it is scanned in "quote mode".  % DCL> type nested-evquotes-example.com  $ ev := write sys$output $ zero == "ONE" 
 $ SH SYM ZERO  $ ev " asdf 'zero' "! $ ev " ''F$ST(" asdf 'zero' ")' " 0 $ ev " ''F$ST(" ''F$ST("" asdf 'zero' "")' ")' "C $ ev " ''F$ST(" ''F$ST("" ''F$ST("""" asdf 'zero' """")' "")' ")' "t5 $ ev " ''F$ST(" ''F$ST("" ''F$ST("""" ''F$ST(""""""""t( asdf 'zero' """""""")' """")' "")' ")' " $ exit DCL>" DCL> @ nested-evquotes-example.com   ZERO == "ONE"a  asdf 'zero'
   asdf 'zero'V    asdf 'zero'     asdf 'zero'a      asdf 'zero' DCL>  A So, as far as I know, this is the only difference: When a lexicaleF function is embedded in a quoted string, do not double its opening andC closing quotation marks. If any lexical functions are nested withincF those "top-level" lexical functions, double their quotation marks once1 for each level down that the lexical function is.   A Actually, this is consistent with the rescanning that occurs withaC apostrophe substitution: DCL begins scanning the line. It finds thenB first quotation mark. Enter quote-mode! Then, DCL finds the double< apostrophe, and begins forced symbol substitution. Now, thisH substitution must be completed before the rest of the string is scanned.G There is no nested apostrophe substituion, so the entire string betweenSE the lexical's enclosing single quotation marks, which just happens to-E contain nested lexical functions, is evaluated as characters in quoteKG mode. Double quotation marks are changed to single quotation marks, andrG this first lexical function is replaced with the resultant string. Now,iG DCL rescans the line, finding the same thing: a quotation mark followedgG by two apostrophes followed by a lexical function with a single leadingsB (and a single trailing) quotation mark! And so the process repeatsB until no double apostrophes are left. This is iterative apostropheE substitution, which is different from nested substitution. Therefore,d@ the observed behavior is consistent with the interpretation that  F 1) the lexical function in the expression "''F$STRING("blah...blah")'"' processes its argument in "quote-mode",   E 2) double quotations marks in the string "blah...blah" are changed to= single quotation marks, andc  E 3) the line is rescanned and the next double apostrophe does the samemC thing, causing 1), 2), and 3) iteratively until there are no doublet apostrophes remaining.  B This also explains the nested lexical functions in one of my prior posts on this subject.  E [Yes, I know I shouldn't abbreviate F$STRING that much, but it's only" for the example.]V   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)/ w: afeldman@gfigroup.BorisYeltsinCooksCajun.com[5 h: alan48@dellnet.YouCantBelieveEverythingYouRead.com     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:51:21 -0600s7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>i) Subject: Re: DEFINE/KEY and recall buffer,- Message-ID: <3A1B42B9.1F398577@earthlink.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > [snip]O > Shouldn't there be a way to do a DEFINE/KEY option so that when you press the > > PF key, the command doesn't get added to the recall buffer ?  F If it was me, I'd try to find another way to make the WRITE SYS$OUTPUT* string less damaging in a RECALL scenario.   That is:  ; $ DEFINE/KEY key_name "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""<ESC>[..."""/TERM;   ...is very different from...   $ ESC[0,8]==27; $ DEFINE/KEY key_name "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ESC, ""[..."""/TERMc  6 One will cause problems when you RECALL, one will not.  / If persistence of symbols is problem, try this:    $ ESC[0,8]==27 $ DEFINE/JOB ESC "''ESC'"  $ DEFINE/KEY key_name -[5 "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$TRNLNM( ""ESC"" ), ""[..."""/TERM   C IMHO, it's a question of technique, not a reflection of any VMS/DCLa deficiency.    --   David J. DachteraA dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:17:21 -0000_; From: "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk>s! Subject: DEFRAG with BACKUP/IMAGEC. Message-ID: <8vehmp$u8p$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>  L We did a defrag of some of the disks on a AS2100 4/233 two node cluster withL FDDI interconnect.  Attached is a HSZ40C with "lots" of disks on six shelves+ and configured RAID 0+1. Both run VMS v6.2.   D Some files are very large at about 3 to 5GB in size. Such files, forK performance reasons, are the only file on a disk. Such disks are configuredr; with INDEXF.SYS at the beginning rather than in the middle.   F The BACKUP/IMAGE seemed to propogate all disk and file characteristicsL except the INDEXF.SYS location which returned to the middle. I haven't triedK any exhaustive tests as such but I played around with the /INIT and /NOINIT 3 flags to see if this made a difference. It did not.   C What is the way of defragging a disk and maintaining the INDEXF.SYSe	 location?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:45:29 -0500 0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>% Subject: Re: DEFRAG with BACKUP/IMAGET2 Message-ID: <p94aOhdiKU9mPRL26RzyDTU7+wNX@4ax.com>  : Initialize the new disk with the characteristics you want,5 like headers and position of INDEXF.SYS, then perform  the restore with /NOINITIALIZE.u   David R. Beatty   5 On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:17:21 -0000, "Leigh G. Bowden" * <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:  M >We did a defrag of some of the disks on a AS2100 4/233 two node cluster with_M >FDDI interconnect.  Attached is a HSZ40C with "lots" of disks on six shelves , >and configured RAID 0+1. Both run VMS v6.2. > E >Some files are very large at about 3 to 5GB in size. Such files, for_L >performance reasons, are the only file on a disk. Such disks are configured< >with INDEXF.SYS at the beginning rather than in the middle. >dG >The BACKUP/IMAGE seemed to propogate all disk and file characteristicsMM >except the INDEXF.SYS location which returned to the middle. I haven't triedpL >any exhaustive tests as such but I played around with the /INIT and /NOINIT4 >flags to see if this made a difference. It did not. >cD >What is the way of defragging a disk and maintaining the INDEXF.SYS
 >location? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:56:48 -0600f7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> % Subject: Re: DEFRAG with BACKUP/IMAGE - Message-ID: <3A1B4400.B85A17E2@earthlink.net>    "Leigh G. Bowden" wrote: > [SNIP]E > What is the way of defragging a disk and maintaining the INDEXF.SYSc > location?l   Like Mr. Beatty said:n  + $ INIT ddcu volume_label/other_qualifier(s)e# $ BACKUP saveset ddcu:/IMAGE/NOINITq   --   David J. Dachtera_ dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:42:12 -0600=7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>-0 Subject: Re: How fast ZIP compress on Alpha4000?- Message-ID: <3A1B4094.F93D4509@earthlink.net>>   Netsurfer wrote: > 3 > I got a 4GB Oracle Export dump file on Alpha4000.n  ) Too big - find another way to archive it.e  ( > I need to zip it and archived on disk.   Not recommended.   . > Had anyone tried zipping files of such size?  E If you must (not recommended), you'll need at least ZIP V2.4. Earlier C versions can't handle files bigger than 2GB. You'll also need UNZIPcA V5.4-1 to unpack the archive, assuming the archive survives being  transferred about.  . > I need to know the time taken for such task.  E Plan on several hours (could be 1 hour, could be 10 hours), depending F upon the speed of your Alpha. Even the fastest VAX could take a day or0 more. Again, try to find another way to do this.  H > This to be done in a non-peak time (zero interactive processes online)  C Again, try not to use compression software for this. DLT tapes haveeG enough capacity these days that you should be able to avoid compressiona	 software.t   -- s David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems/ http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/2  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.1   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Nov 2000 16:51:27 -0500+ From: rschaefe@gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) 2 Subject: Re: Looking for RJ45-to-ThinWire adapter.( Message-ID: <8veqov$a4f$1@acme.gcfn.org>  + Peter LANGSTOEGER (eplan@kapsch.net) wrote:o <snip>& : "Dongle" is not the correct wording.C : It is named "BALUN" coming from BALanced-to-UNbalanced converter.C  F Hmmm.  I'm familiar with 75 Ohm <-> 300 Ohm (remember twinlead? ;) butH isn't it supposed to be an inductive coupling?  There're only three IC'sI inside, and one've them is a DC/DC converter, and nothing that looks likei a matching transformer.a  E : It is a way to run 10Base2 over UTP cable, but it is not 10BaseT !!   $ I'm not even going to bother asking!   : -- e> : Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651   Bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:13:27 -0600T, From: Tim Olson <Tim@unionsemiconductor.com>; Subject: Networking VaxStationII with DEQNA Ethernet TCP/IPa6 Message-ID: <3A1AF387.905F8D2D@unionsemiconductor.com>   Hi vms people,  @ I've just been assigned the task of putting a VAX system on our @ company network.  It's an old VaxStation II running MicroVMS 4.5: This machine has the Q-bus, and it previously had only one? DEQNA card with an Ethernet Transciever hooked up.  The machinegB is hooked through the first Transciever to another VAX system that6 is part of an old IC Tester.  They communicate fine.    ? I robbed another DEQNA card out of an old VAX chassis, and went : through putting it inline in the Q-Bus path....it ended up8 right below the original card.  Now there are 2 Ethernet; ports, and 2 Transcievers.  One is hooked up to our networkC and the other to the tester.  ? I need to know how to give this 2nd Ethernet port an IP address:& so we can hopefully Telnet in to it.    9 Ideally I'd like to find out how to read all the old noder; and IP configuration info out of the machine so that I knowf# what it used to be before I start.    < What also might be more practical in the long run is to take; both the tester and this vax and network them independently 9 so they don't have an ethernet link between them, but use,7 our network to talk.  This would allow me to remove theg) 2nd ethernet port from the VaxStation II.s  @ Can anyone help get me started with getting the IP configuration7 going on these things using MicroVMS 4.5?   I'm findingS; there's info out there, but usually about OpenVMS and newer 1 versions. Also, it appears that if I simply do a s: sys$manager:netconfig that I'll end up changing node names? and such and I may mess up the communication that we *DO* have. = I'm also concerned that the same command won't recognise thath I do have 2 ethernet ports.   < Any help would be appreciated.  I've worked on an old PDP-11? system a bit, but other than that, I've never done much diggingi into these Q-bus systems.  s  ; Thanks in advance!  If you can CC: to my email address thatr. would be great so I get your response quicker.   Tim"   -- S! Tim Olson - Systems Administratora$ mailto:tolson@unionsemiconductor.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:56:11 -0600'/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>o? Subject: Re: Networking VaxStationII with DEQNA Ethernet TCP/IP O Message-ID: <3F0E26A681A441A3.B41BB7AF69FB2155.A8C1935FED46B5A1@lp.airnews.net>e   Tim Olson wrote: >  > Hi vms people, > A > I've just been assigned the task of putting a VAX system on our3B > company network.  It's an old VaxStation II running MicroVMS 4.5< > This machine has the Q-bus, and it previously had only oneA > DEQNA card with an Ethernet Transciever hooked up.  The machineeD > is hooked through the first Transciever to another VAX system that6 > is part of an old IC Tester.  They communicate fine. > A > I robbed another DEQNA card out of an old VAX chassis, and went7< > through putting it inline in the Q-Bus path....it ended up: > right below the original card.  Now there are 2 Ethernet= > ports, and 2 Transcievers.  One is hooked up to our networki > and the other to the tester. > A > I need to know how to give this 2nd Ethernet port an IP addressr& > so we can hopefully Telnet in to it. > ; > Ideally I'd like to find out how to read all the old node"= > and IP configuration info out of the machine so that I knowi$ > what it used to be before I start. > > > What also might be more practical in the long run is to take= > both the tester and this vax and network them independently ; > so they don't have an ethernet link between them, but usen9 > our network to talk.  This would allow me to remove theo+ > 2nd ethernet port from the VaxStation II.v > B > Can anyone help get me started with getting the IP configuration9 > going on these things using MicroVMS 4.5?   I'm findings= > there's info out there, but usually about OpenVMS and newers2 > versions. Also, it appears that if I simply do a< > sys$manager:netconfig that I'll end up changing node namesA > and such and I may mess up the communication that we *DO* have. ? > I'm also concerned that the same command won't recognise thato > I do have 2 ethernet ports.c > > > Any help would be appreciated.  I've worked on an old PDP-11A > system a bit, but other than that, I've never done much digging  > into these Q-bus systems.s > = > Thanks in advance!  If you can CC: to my email address thatu0 > would be great so I get your response quicker.    ? The first question would be: What TCP/IP package are you using?o  E Considering that you are running MicroVMS 4.5, I suspect that you are @ using DECnet and that you don't currently have a TCP/IP package.  C Unfortunately, I can't recommend a TCP/IP package for MicroVMS 4.5.   E With DECnet, you communicate with the box via SET HOST (usually using  the CTERM protocol).  G Did you set the jumpers on the second DEQNA correctly?  If so, the SHOW 9 DEVICE command should report a XQB0 device.  Is it there?q  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------o$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:41:46 +0300e" From: "Geva" <geva34@inter.net.il>. Subject: Post your FREE Classified Ad position- Message-ID: <8vah8l$h4j$1@news3.inter.net.il>s  A I found a wonderful place to post my Classified Ad and it's Free:i "ad track classifieds" n       -- t
 Geva Gazit Home Base Business Centerb www.successlife4u.com  success@matav.net.il Tel: 972-9-7678138   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 04:35:09 GMTm2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com># Subject: Question on using VMS Mails4 Message-ID: <12IS5.338$OC.86541@typhoon.aracnet.com>  J These days I seem to find most of my personnel email being done on my HomeE VMS box using the VMS MAIL command.  However, there is one thing thatdI irritates me.  When I reply to a message I'd like to have the '>'s on thehI left side of the text like most email programs seem to do.  However, I'vea< been unable to find a way to do that with MAIL or with EDIT.  L Does anyone have any tips or tricks on how I can get this done?  I'm getting( tired of putting them there manually :^)   			Zanen   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:14:35 +0800$4 From: Dave Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>' Subject: Re: Question on using VMS Mail + Message-ID: <3A1B563B.D0589C86@bigpond.com>'   "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > L > These days I seem to find most of my personnel email being done on my HomeG > VMS box using the VMS MAIL command.  However, there is one thing thattK > irritates me.  When I reply to a message I'd like to have the '>'s on the K > left side of the text like most email programs seem to do.  However, I've > > been unable to find a way to do that with MAIL or with EDIT. > N > Does anyone have any tips or tricks on how I can get this done?  I'm getting* > tired of putting them there manually :^) >  >                         Zane  C What editor do you use?  I use callable TECO and have defined a keyhA sequence (within VTEDIT) to quote the text with ">" and drag in ah' signature file.  All quite easy really.e6 This isn't going to start another editor war is it :-?   -- s Regards, Dave. I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.comeI DBS software at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:06:25 -0500h, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: Question on using VMS Mail > Message-ID: <hshubs-138B91.00062522112000@news.mindspring.com>  E In article <12IS5.338$OC.86541@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy"  # <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:l  F >Does anyone have any tips or tricks on how I can get this done?  I'm  >getting) >tired of putting them there manually :^)o   Use a different mail client.   -- tG "...run in circles, scream and shout!"    I hope you have good backups.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:40:19 +0100o2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)' Subject: Re: Question on using VMS Mailt; Message-ID: <3a1b5c43.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   1 healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) wrote:aG : These days I seem to find most of my personnel email being done on myhL : Home VMS box using the VMS MAIL command.  However, there is one thing thatK : irritates me.  When I reply to a message I'd like to have the '>'s on thecK : left side of the text like most email programs seem to do.  However, I'vea> : been unable to find a way to do that with MAIL or with EDIT. : F : Does anyone have any tips or tricks on how I can get this done?  I'm2 : getting tired of putting them there manually :^)  ' Do you use EDT or TPU as a mail editor?.$ Anyway, here are solutions for both.   cu,    Martin   [--- for EDT ---] . From: denning@carbon.concom.com (Bill Denning) Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsy$ Subject: Re: Quote back in VMS mail?  Date: 12 Oct 1995 21:23:37 -0500# Organization: Connections.com, Inc.k* Message-ID: <45kij9$ivk@carbon.concom.com>  & mmoritz@netcom.com (Mike Moritz) asks:A > Anyone have a way to to add a quote back symbol (ie ">") to VMS 1 > mail messages sent with "REPLY/EDIT/EXTRACT".  r> > I use EDT as my editor, is an EDT macro a possible solution?< > I've tried using an EDT substitue command but I can't find@ > a way to insert at the first character like unix's anchor "^".  H I define a function key to use an EDT NOKEYPAD command to mark the linesG that I want to refer to.  The technique described below also works with 7 other characters you might want to insert, such as "^".S  H Put your various key definitions in an EDT command file, and then either define a global symbol such as  # ed == "edit/edt/command=my_own.edt"f  M or define the logical names EDTSYS or EDTINI to equivalence the command file.tK If both EDTSYS and EDTINI are defined, EDTSYS is the one that is used.  Of MK course, the usual logical name table precedence order also applies.  If you N use a logical name, it will work for editing at both the DCL prompt and within
 VMS Mail.   L The keys that can be defined are listed in the EDT manual table "Keypad Key K Numbers".  In addition to the ones shown in the book, you can also redefine L the arrow keys (obviously you would only want to define the second function  here).  ! define key gold 12 [UP ARROW KEY]n# define key gold 13 [DOWN ARROW KEY]U# define key gold 14 [LEFT ARROW KEY]e$ define key gold 15 [RIGHT ARROW KEY]   Cheers, Bill  K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------   , define key function 33 as "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."  K Assuming that your cursor is already at the beginning of a line, this makes3 the F19 key do the following:r  9 "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."      begin the function key definitions ^^ c  - "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."      set direction forwarde   ^^^i  ) "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."      begin insert modep      ^  2 "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."      insert the characters ">>"       ^^  - "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."      terminate insert mode 
         ^^  J "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."      move the cursor backward two characters (beginning-           ^^^           of line in this case)t  I "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."      move the cursor one line in the current direction 3              ^^         (previously set to forward)   7 "(advi>>^z-2c1l)."      end the function key definitionA                ^^^     [--- for TPU ---]/* From: ADRIE@TUDOBM.TUDelft.NL (A.Kooijman) Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsi$ Subject: Re: Quote back in VMS mail? Date: 10 Oct 1995 07:51:26 GMT" Organization: TU Delft, Faculty IO* Message-ID: <45d8lu$llf@mo6.rc.tudelft.nl>  ( mmoritz@netcom.com (Mike Moritz) writes:A > Anyone have a way to to add a quote back symbol (ie ">") to VMS:1 > mail messages sent with "REPLY/EDIT/EXTRACT".  0  # I use EVE and a tpu initfile to :  nJ (init_dir is a logical pointing to a dir with a lot of initializationfiles"  for all kinds of tools and toys.)   In mail:# editor is : INIT_DIR:MAIL_EDIT.COM o   mail_edit.com: $ f=F$VERIFY(0)r& $! p1 and p2 are supplied by mail/edit $ if P1 .nes. "" $ then $   copy/nolog/noconf 'p1' 'P2'e $ endifa) $ define/nolog/user SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMANDM) $ eve/command=init_dir:mail_edit.tpu 'P2'h $ exit   mail_edit.tpu:  0 ! Insert a > character at every line's beginning7 last_line := get_info (current_buffer, "record_count");y loop>   exitif (get_info(current_buffer,"record_number")>last_line);#   move_horizontal(-current_offset);e   copy_text("> ");   eve_move_down; endloop;   !Add date and time and a .SIG- position(buffer_end);- copy_text("-- ");o copy_text(FAO ("!%D",0));m erase_character(-6); position(buffer_end);k eve_move_up; split_line;  eve_move_up; save_pos := mark(none);0 position(buffer_end);t# read_file("init_dir:mail_sig.txt");I position(save_pos);   
 [--- cut ---]i --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.desN One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 05:46:23 GMTt2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>' Subject: Re: Question on using VMS Mailr4 Message-ID: <P4JS5.343$OC.87089@typhoon.aracnet.com>  5 Dave Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:eE > What editor do you use?  I use callable TECO and have defined a key,C > sequence (within VTEDIT) to quote the text with ">" and drag in am) > signature file.  All quite easy really.   = I'm using EDIT/TPU with the terminal set to act like a VT100.n  8 > This isn't going to start another editor war is it :-?  @ I hope not.  I'm also hoping it doesn't start a Mail client war.   			Zaned   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:56:58 -0500d# From: "azog" <azog@nospam.azog.org>u Subject: Re: remote DECWindows( Message-ID: <3a1ae188$1_1@nntp2.nac.net>  L Yea, something's screwed up here, and it's the loose nut behind the keyboard :-/c  B I got it working... this is a hobbyist system, and it's a headlessJ VS4000/60. Since it was headless, when VMS asked me if I wanted to installF base DECWindows support, I said no. Even tho the recommendation was toK install it no matter what. Well, after the initial install, I installed theyI DWMOTIF package, figuring that would take care of it, but apperently now.eI Since it's a hobbyist system, I didn't mind reinstalling VMS, which fixedp the problem.  L I'm not sure what exactly was missing between the initial install when I didI not install base DECWindows, and afterwards, but something important was!n  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message& news:8ve1gm$d298$1@lead.zk3.dec.com...L > Show us the transport list.  It sounds like something is screwed up there. >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:13:56 GMT,  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laughers8 Message-ID: <4v2k1tkh4holc3nuumvei1sc70s08mjd2g@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:48:03 +0000, andrew harrison ! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:f  
 >jlsue wrote:r >> p6 >> On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:55:10 +0000, andrew harrison$ >> <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >> iJ >> >An OPS setup for HA isn't complicated to setup provided you don't wantF >> >it to scale which for your scenario is unescessary and since I can >> >acheiverL >> >your limitted definition of HA using OPS why would I bother with OpenVMSI >> >and RDB. Isn't that the problem with your argument, if you can shut ahJ >> >node down "once users have naturally disconnected" then you don't even >> >need a cluster.t >> sC >> Why would you bother?  How about so that your ignorance would be I >> eliminated and you could actually speak with some authority.  Or don't-6 >> you really care whether you know what you speak of? >>   >0 >Tsk tsk, don't get personal >iD >And get with the program, even Kerry has reluctantly admitted under? >questioning from other posters on this group that what you are @ >arguing is only true in specific circumstances. While Kerry was? >and you still appear to be trying to establish that it is truen >in a general sense. >c? >I havn't run OpenVMS clusters but people who have do not agreet? >with you. I would suggest you take your argument off-line witho3 >them, perhaps you know more about it than they do.   B Now you're just plain making things up.  Kerry never said any suchC thing.  The best argument you can come up with is that you can find E some environment, somewhere, it won't work... if you look hard enoughr7 and narrowly define your criteria to that special case.   B However, nothing YOU will ever say will erase the FACT that it has9 been done, and is still being done, for the general case.:  E You just can't seem to get it through your skull that YOU are the onehA seeking special-case scenarios to prove you point in general.  IfmF you'd just shut up and listen to the practitioners, you might actually learn something.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqn- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:25:25 -0600.7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>r$ Subject: Re: TCP/IP 5.0A ECO Appears- Message-ID: <3A1B3CA5.7A3299A5@earthlink.net>a   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: [snip]E > btw: The beta ECO is            DEC-VAXVMS-VMS72_PCSI-A0100--4.PCSIp7 ---------------------------------------------------^^^^m  < This is a PCSI (PolyCenter Software Installation) patch, no?  ' How does this fix TCP/IP Services bugs?u  D ...or is this YAP (Yet Another Patch) so that TCP/IP Services can be
 installed?   -- h David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:13:57 GMTc  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>' Subject: Re: Technology of US Elections 8 Message-ID: <9l3k1tcffh9g2ki5788dkr4njdq3k6kb4i@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 11:26:41 +0000, andrew harrisonr! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:'  
 >jlsue wrote:g >> h/ >> On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:09:32 -0400, JF Mezei ( >> <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >> r >> >Which is more democratic:eL >> >       -people taking to the streets demanding a recount of THEIR votes, >> >S >> >or     -lawyers arguing in courts whether votes are valid or who has or doesn'te >> >have jurisdiction to? >> >decide how to judge if a vote is punched correctly or not ?A >>  B >> Er... OR, people accepting that they were complete dolts by notF >> accepting their own responsiblity to vote correctly the first time. >> rF >> If you can't handle the instructions, you shouldn't be the decidingG >> factor in a vote for the local dogcatcher, much less the presidency.i >>   >e> >So if you are old, partially sighted, an invalid, someone for= >for whome English isn't a first of even second language etc d, >etc then you should not be allowed to vote. >e  F Sure Andrew, all 19,000 votes were from people who couldn't understand& the language or couldn't see straight.  D How would they know if they voted incorrectly?  If they realized it,/ then they should have asked for another ballot.h  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqw- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:01:50 -0800c! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comg' Subject: Re: Technology of US ElectionshD Message-ID: <OF35650ECB.EDB1249C-ON8825699F.00054E67@foundation.com>  K I realise that this one will be familiar to many people by now, but I think I this thread is getting way too serious. Here's a little humour injection.    Shanea    . Subject:  NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE >r2 > To the citizens of the United States of America, >nJ > In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus toD > govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your  > independence, effective today. > I > Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical dutiessE > over all states, commonwealths and other territories.  Except Utah,eF > which she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. TonyF > Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware thatD > there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister forJ > America without the need for further elections.  Congress and the SenateE > will be disbanded.  A questionnaire will be circulated next year to ' > determine whether any of you noticed.E >mG > To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following-- > rules are introduced with immediate effect:- > F > 1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.H > Then look up "aluminium".  Check the pronunciation guide.  You will beJ > amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.  Generally, you= > should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels.  Look upiD > "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words  interspersed withD > filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and> > inefficient form of communication.  Look up  "interspersed". >uH > 2. There is no such thing as "US English".  We will let Microsoft know > on your behalf.  >aH > 3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. > It really isn't that hard. >nJ > 4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the > good guys. >oD > 5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save TheJ > Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1.  We would not want you/ > to get confused and give up half way through.o >hI > 6. You should stop playing American "football".  There is only one kindvF > of football.  What you refer to as American "football" is not a very > good game. >tC > The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside youriJ > borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. YouF > will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper > football.n >oD > Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls.  It is aI > difficult game.  Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed tofC > play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not I > involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlarWI > body armour like nancies).  We are hoping to get together at least a USt > rugby sevens side by 2005. >sJ > 7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons ifE > they give you any merde.  The 98.85% of you who were not aware thatgJ > there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. TheG > Russians have never been the bad guys.  "Merde" is French for "sh*t".  >OH > 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday.  November 8th will be a newG > national holiday, but only in England.  It will be called "Indecisiveg > Day".t > F > 9. All American cars are hereby banned.  They are crap and it is forH > your own good.  When we show you German cars, you will understand what
 > we mean. >SA > 10. Please tell us who killed JFK.  It's been driving us crazy.  >p! > Thank you for your cooperation.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:50:22 +0100l. From: Roger@natron.demon.co.uk (Roger Barnett)' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections - Message-ID: <270658654wnr@natron.demon.co.uk>u   2c coming up...     E Firstly, while it is true that it should be possible to obtain a 100%n? accurate count of valid votes, my impression is that one of theaA problems in Florida is that the condition of the voting cards cane= be affected by the mechanical counting process (and allegedlyt< by the manual process as well). This is such an obvious flaw; that I assume it was recognised and agreed before the puncho@ system was introduced that it would not be possible to guarantee1 reproducible (and hence validatable) vote counts.r  E Secondly, when this dispute first started there were many allegationsnC of much more serious vote rigging, including organised intimidationhG by Cuban Americans, ballot stuffing, etc. The general response to this aB as reported over here seemed to be "oh that kind of thing happens B all over the country" [ I remember Wisconsin being mentioned ]. InB the fuss over recounts I haven't heard of any investigations beingI made into any of these charges. Is this inaction, if real, normal in the .A US ?  Is it, perhaps, an inevitable side effect of requiring law o8 enforcement officials to win local popularity contests ?   -- c
 Roger Barnette   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.652 ************************