1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 28 Nov 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 664       Contents: Re: $getspi (again !) ( Re: Compaq Linux (RedHat or SCO/Caldera)# Re: Freeware Submission Deadline... ' Re: generate a shareble image with DECC , Identify Qbus board (SI-QS 1000) / sick TK70 Re: IMAP, POP and MINE Re: IMAP, POP and MINE) KZPAC 3-port RAID Controller - soft error  LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL question Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1H1  Re: OpenVMS CBT 5 Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 RE: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 RE: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 9 Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS  Re: Q22-bus programming  Re: Q22-bus programming  Re: qman journal" Re: Query on DCL and tape mounting" Re: Query on DCL and tape mounting( Re: REQ: Lexmark Printer Control Library Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher SW Raid 310 and VMS  Re: System Service and RTL Re: System Service and RTL Re: System Service and RTL Re: System Service and RTL Re: TACACS SERVER V2.2.3 Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections Re: Technology of US elections The Truth is Marching On! : Re: TK70: request for data transer fro TK70 to 4mmDat tape2 Re: UAF Quotas - Y'ain't a-gonna believe this'n...2 Re: UAF Quotas - Y'ain't a-gonna believe this'n...2 Re: UAF Quotas - Y'ain't a-gonna believe this'n... UCX question! VAX/VMS DEC Phigs to Alpha Open3D  VMS Mail futures (question)  Re: VMS Mail futures (question)  Re: VMS Mail futures (question)  Voted #1 Online Business Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL  Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL  Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL  Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL  Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL  Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL  Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL  Re: You Are So Right Re: You Are So Right) Re: [Fwd: RE: Technology of US elections]   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 23:50:43 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: $getspi (again !)6 Message-ID: <8vus0j$7sr$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  L In article <8vbi8u$g05$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, ROBERT.MURPHY@RB.CWPLC.COM writes:D :Another oddity with $GETSPI - I am doing some pascal work, and haveF :written a routine to do the math and get the cpu busy times. I know IH :have to call SPI$_MODES twice, however while the first call returns all= :the tick times as expected, the second call returns zero for A :everything, which is not what I would have expected, obviously !  : , :Has anyone ever actually got this to work ?  B   From C, yes.  A full source example and related stuff exists at:  8     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/srh_examples/        DECUS_UNDOC_CLINIC/I_SPI.C  C   I haven't tried calling exe$getspi from Pascal, but I've used the F   above C code for a while now.  (If the code is busted, I'll need to B   know details -- OpenVMS version, example code, etc.  Please alsoC   realize that the various spi constants used as itemcodes can and  8   do vary by OpenVMS release -- sometimes incompatibly!)  A   A documented interface (called sys$getrmi) is planned for V7.3.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:17:02 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 1 Subject: Re: Compaq Linux (RedHat or SCO/Caldera) - Message-ID: <3A23078E.123CE49F@earthlink.net>    Gord Coulman wrote:  > , > Which is the best one for Alpha platforms?   Wow - tough call.   G Both Red Hat and Mandrake have an Alpha distro (since Mandrake *IS* red  Hat underneath).   There's *BSD for Alpha, also.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:58:43 GMT  From: richard_maher@my-deja.com , Subject: Re: Freeware Submission Deadline...) Message-ID: <8vusff$j0c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hi,   B I know of a great tool for VMS called the DECdtm Branch ManagementC Services. They were written by a now defunct company called Digital E (that incidentally went belly-up for making some of the same mistakes  that Compaq is now making)  F Compaq has the documentation and the relevant pages can be plucked outB of the functional spec and shipped with the freeware CD. The funnyD thing is the software is already there with everey copy of VMS so it won't have to go on the CD.   = As far as examples go I'll post two examples of propagating a C transaction to another process as replies to this thread. This will 3 help developers get ready for the upcoming TIP API!    Regards Richard Maher.  6 In article <8v3vom$bp3$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,&   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote: >  > E >   Do you have or know of an interesting or useful tool for OpenVMS,  orB >   do you know of a new version of an existing tool?  Do you have codingB >   examples?  Have you considered submitting these to the OpenVMS	 Freeware?  > < >   (Or, if you are not the tool's maintainer, passing along information onF >   the existance of the update -- so that the version on the Freeware can  >   be updated?) > E >   Updated submission deadline for the next (V5.0) OpenVMS Freeware:  >  >     January 8, 2000  > 4 >   Freeware submission information is available at: > B >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/freeware/cd_guide.html > H >   It appears that an updated version of the Freeware (V5.1?) will also; >   be distributed with the OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-6C1 release.  > H >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ------------------- --------1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >  >     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2000 00:17:09 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: generate a shareble image with DECC6 Message-ID: <8vuti5$86b$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  j In article <Oozvf8elmJpy-pn2-vD0exl5ZdN8R@Tom2>, Thomas.Hahnemann@nospam_s-t.de (Thomas Hahnemann) writes:/ :I'am using OpenVMS 7.1 on a VAX 3100 model 76. 9 :I want to build a shareable image with DECC. I'am using  9 :a macro source to create the transfer vector. Also some  % :global variable should be exported.   ..' :Has anybody an example or an address ?   E   Check the shareable image cookbook referenced in the OpenVMS FAQ...   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:20:23 -0500 & From: Joe User <smj@death.to.spammers>5 Subject: Identify Qbus board (SI-QS 1000) / sick TK70 1 Message-ID: <3A231667.401D3011@death.to.spammers>    Hi all,   D I'm getting ready to revive an MV3400 to keep the basement warm thisE winter. I've got two questions for the collective: an unknown (to me) D quad height board. probably a tape controller, and a TK70 that isn't being recognized.    Any help would be appreciated!     Mystery Board:
 =============   D It looks like it's a tape controller, but I've no clue as to what itC would be hooked up to. I don't see a matching connector on the back F of my Cipher F880 (guess I'll have to get the 11-730 running next ;-).  < Here's what you get from doing a SHOW DEV at the >>> prompt:       [ DSSI devices ]  $     UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500)     -?  $     UQSSP Tape Controller 1 (760404)     -?       [ Ethernet device ]   + Here's what you get from doing a SHOW QBUS:        Scan of Qbus I/O SpaceF     - 20000104 (760404) = 200D (300) TQK50/TQK70/TU81E/RV20/KFQSA-TAPE     - 20000106 (760406) = 0A0DF     - 20001940 (774500) = 0000 (260) TQK50/TQK70/TU81E/RV20/KFQSA-TAPE     - 20001942 (774502) = 827B)     - 20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR   7 Here's what you can see by inspecting the board itself.   .   Name screened on board:         SI - QS 1000H   Serial/model number near same:  6051-7000 -011 (last is sep. tag, like rev)  <   Several Cypress chips/PALs:     CY7C9101-40JC  68 pin PLCC<                                   CY7C910-50JC   44 pin PLCCB                                   CY7C409A-15PC  28 pin DIP (PAL?)  ,   Three IDC/Berg connectors:      2 x 50 pin,                                   1 x 26 pin    E   There are two DIP switch packs, 8 and 10 positions. There is also a  strip @   for 12 jumpers, screened labels run from "TP1" through "TP12".  F   The unit came with a slot cover that passes a fat 25 pair cable from one F   of the 50 pin Berg connectors (P2?), about 10 feet to another 50 pin Berg.   A   Aside from the Cypress chips there is a lot of MSI logic, and a  liberalsH   scattering of what I assume are PALs (all narrow 18-22? pin DIPs) with  G   paper tags that all start with "6051-xxxx", a few with random-seeming A   version numbers on the second line, e.g. "v.111", "v2a", "v25".     
 Sick TK70:	 =========   D This MV3400 includes a TK70 as the primary load device, but it isn't listedF as a boot device or when I type SHO DEV at the console prompt. I'm not sure+ what this may imply about the controller...   F The drive is convinced it has a tape inserted, even though it's empty. WhenG it finishes initializing at power up, the green operate-handle light is  lit H solid. The yellow tape-moving light is blinking, and almost never stops. If= I try to hit the Unload button when it is lit solid, makes no  difference.   F The motor does spin fitfully while the yellow light is blinking, and I think 0 it's moving in the direction to rewind the tape.  H Any clues? I'm not squeamish about taking a screwdriver to the transport if you convince me it'll help...       / Thanks a bunch for any help on either question!  --Steve.  E Steve Jones                 ...!crash.com!smj              Arlington,  Mass. F CRASH!! Computing     (any spambots parse bang paths?)      +1 781 MID BYTE  E "Chaos will ensue if the variable i is altered..." - SysV Programmers  Guide    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 18:18:15 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: Re: IMAP, POP and MINE 0 Message-ID: <8vu8h7$5iu$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  ] In article <8vtogo$dac$1@cougar.golden.net>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes: L >Is there any package available that can give our VMS machine the ability to" >be a true backoffice Email server > $ >We have UCX 4.2 and OpenVMS 7.1-1h2   Multinet has an IMAP server.  K >What I am really looking for is an IMAP type package that will allow email  >anywhere over the WEB.  > K >I know innosoft is out there but now SUN owns it and most likely thats the  >end of the VMS version.  0 The VMS PMDF is now owned by Process Software...   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:41:09 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: IMAP, POP and MINE , Message-ID: <3A230D27.B376F949@videotron.ca>   Jerry Alan Braga wrote: L > What I am really looking for is an IMAP type package that will allow email > anywhere over the WEB.  8 You can look at Compaq's Office Server (aka: All-in-1).    Take a look at: 1 http://WWW.OPENVMS.compaq.com/solutions/mail.html   & and check out the office server stuff.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 06:33:18 GMT % From: Andrew.Rycroft@intrinsitech.com 2 Subject: KZPAC 3-port RAID Controller - soft error) Message-ID: <8vvjjf$4cq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hi,   E I have a 3-port RAID controller in an ALpha OpenVMS system. Using the F RAID monitoring utility it is reporting "soft" errors. Any ideas as to3 what these maybe, and if I should get it replaced ?    Thanks Andrew    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:59:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL question , Message-ID: <3A231F88.D26AD05C@videotron.ca>  K I have a main image that calls routines in an external shareable image with $ the LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL technique.  
 The question:   E Is it possible for a routine in the sharable image that is invoked by ; LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL to call a routine in the main image ?   6 Is it a case of linking the main image/share and usingJ UNIVERSAL=main_routine_name to define the routines that are to be callable from the external routine  ?   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 19:25:45 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1H16 Message-ID: <8vucfp$5k3$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  M In article <8vc7kj$k1p$1@news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: 7 :Uh, no. We upgraded November last year. Should we have < :seen awful things? If so, could you be a bit more specific?  D   V7.2-1H1 was not available in November 1999; that release shipped    in June of 2000.  K :P.Lj heeft geschreven in bericht <3A194C7F.41300602@byron.ext.telia.se>...  :>E :>Does anyone have experienced any problem after upgrading to (Alpha)  :>OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 ?   G   Open-ended questions are easy to ask, but are also very difficult to  E   answer.   (I have seen various problems with most OpenVMS releases. G   That said, I am presently running on a mix of V7.2-1 and V7.2-1H1 and    field test 7.3 baselevels...)   H   What problem(s) are you seeing with your OpenVMS V7.2-1H1 release, or H   are you seeking advise and council around a potential upgrade to that F   release, or are you installing and using an AlphaServer GS80, GS160,J   or GS320 series platform?  (Platforms which have a minimum of V7.2-1H1.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 19:15:12 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: OpenVMS CBT6 Message-ID: <8vubs0$5k3$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  D In article <8va5rk$eft$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, dman00@my-deja.com writes:F :We are predominantly an NT shop but will soon be implementing a largeH :OpenVMS system.  We need to get some training and want to start with anH :introduction to OpenVMS CBT.  Can anyone make a recomendation for this?  E   Please see the training information section of the OpenVMS FAQ, in  G   section "DOC11.  Where can new users find tutorial information about     OpenVMS?".  F   I will add the references to the sites mentioned in replies to this H   thread into the next FAQ...  (Those not already included, obviously.)   G   The reference to the URL http://www.openvms.digital.com:800/ (a typo  A   in the port, too) is now at http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:11:21 -0500d5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam>O> Subject: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <8vubhb$5kt$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   Folks,  3 I thought you might be interested in the following.C   Suel4 ____________________________________________________   Statement of Direction        Oracle for Compaq             Alpha OpenVMS 
 November 2000m      ORACLES COMMITMENT & PLANS FOR OPENVMS L Oracle and Compaq Computer Corporation have a long and successful history ofK delivering enterprise solutions to the OpenVMS marketplace for more than 20mJ years.  The OpenVMS port remains one of Oracles top six platforms, with aI large and loyal customer base. Oracle is committed to providing continuedSH ports of its core database and Internet technologies to OpenVMS.  OracleL will be focusing on the faster product delivery time (within 90 days of base9 release)  and the unsurpassed product quality on OpenVMS.t   PRODUCT AVAILABILITYL The following products are currently available in production on Compaq Alpha OpenVMS:  " ? Oracle7 Version 7.3.4.4 with VLM" ? Oracle8 Version 8.0.5.1 with VLM  ? Oracle8 Version 8.1.6 with VLM ? Context Cartridges ? Spatial Data Cartridge ? Image Data Cartridge ? Parallel Query Optiono) ? Parallel Server Option with OpenVMS 7.2e ? Distributed Database Optione ? Advanced Networking Option ? Advanced Replication OptionS ? Partitioning Optiono ? Object Options ? Pre-Compilerso  - C/C++, COBOL, Fortran	 ? Network             - TCP/IPs% ? Oracle Developer/2000 Version 1.6.1a ? Oracle Application Server 3.0n" ? Oracle Applications Release 10.7$ ? Oracle Applications Release 11.0.3         Oracle Corporation World Headquarters 500 Oracle Parkway Redwood Shores, CA 94065 USA    Worldwide Inquiries: 415.506.7000 Fax 415.506.7200 http://www.oracle.com/   PRODUCT DIRECTIONSH The following Oracle products are planned on Alpha OpenVMS. Please checkL with your Oracle account representative for an up-to-date plan and schedule:H ? Oracle 8i v8.1.6.2 (will be certified to run as a backend database for Oracle Applications 11i)E ? Oracle 8i v8.1.7 (with RMAN & Oracle HTTP Server powered by Apache)e ? Oracle 9i L ? Oracle iAS (Standard Edition with Oracle Apache HTTP Server, Oracle PortalL Services, Oracle JVM, and Oracle Developers Kits including Database, XML and LDAP.) ? Oracle Forms/Reports Serverg   SUPPORTED PLATFORMSlJ Oracle RDBMS Versions 7.3.4 and 8.0.5.1 have been certified on OpenVMS 7.1G and 7.2. Oracle RDBMS Version 8.1.6 has been  certified on OpenVMS 7.2.oL Oracle will certify future versions of OpenVMS as they become available with/ compatible versions of Oracle OpenVMS products.e    A For more information, please send email to infodec@us.oracle.com.,                        B To offer our customers the most complete and effective informationH management solutions, Oracle Corporation offers its products, along with> support, education, and consulting, in more than 90 countries.  J This product is not yet generally available, and features and screen shots9 shown may not correspond exactly to the released product.l  C Oracle is a registered trademark, and Enabling the Information Age,bD Oracle8i, Oracle8, and Oracle7 are trademarks of Oracle Corporation.  I All other company and product names mentioned are used for identifications@ purposes only, and may be trademarks of their respective owners.  # Copyright  Oracle Corporation 2000s All Rights Reserved    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:59:19 GMT-= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)rB Subject: Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <009F3C0B.151B2ABE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <8vubhb$5kt$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> writes: >Folks,. >C4 >I thought you might be interested in the following. >  >Sue5 >____________________________________________________  >h >Statement of Directione >       Oracle for Compaqd >            Alpha OpenVMS >November 2000 >D >r > ORACLES COMMITMENT &a >PLANS FOR OPENVMSM >Oracle and Compaq Computer Corporation have a long and successful history ofgL >delivering enterprise solutions to the OpenVMS marketplace for more than 20K >years.  The OpenVMS port remains one of Oracles top six platforms, with alJ >large and loyal customer base. Oracle is committed to providing continuedI >ports of its core database and Internet technologies to OpenVMS.  OraclerM >will be focusing on the faster product delivery time (within 90 days of base : >release)  and the unsurpassed product quality on OpenVMS. >s >PRODUCT AVAILABILITYgM >The following products are currently available in production on Compaq Alphac	 >OpenVMS:E >m# >? Oracle7 Version 7.3.4.4 with VLMr# >? Oracle8 Version 8.0.5.1 with VLMl! >? Oracle8 Version 8.1.6 with VLMn >? Context Cartridge >? Spatial Data Cartridge  >? Image Data Cartridge) >? Parallel Query Option* >? Parallel Server Option with OpenVMS 7.2 >? Distributed Database Option >? Advanced Networking OptionT >? Advanced Replication Option >? Partitioning Option >? Object Option >? Pre-Compilers > - C/C++, COBOL, Fortrana
 >? Network {...snip...}  F Why are all their products questionable?  Are you saying that they are or are not available?    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa            mO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:14:37 -0500 ) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>eB Subject: RE: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMSB Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A624A@and02.drc.com>  . It really would be nice if Oracle Rdb would be+ an officially supported product on OpenVMS.-0 It would also be rather pleasant if the Attunity2 Connect "On Platform" package included the drivers for RMS and Rdb.   Eric Ebinger Dynamics Research Corporation      > -----Original Message-----< > From: Sue Skonetski [mailto:susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam]) > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 2:11 PMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn@ > Subject: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS >=20 >=20 > Folks, >=205 > I thought you might be interested in the following.i >=20 > Sue-6 > ____________________________________________________ >=20 > Statement of Direction >        Oracle for Compaq >             Alpha OpenVMSj > November 2000u >=20 >=20 >  ORACLE'S COMMITMENT & > PLANS FOR OPENVMS0; > Oracle and Compaq Computer Corporation have a long and=20f > successful history oft? > delivering enterprise solutions to the OpenVMS marketplace=20. > for more than 20= > years.  The OpenVMS port remains one of Oracle's top six=20m > platforms, with ao: > large and loyal customer base. Oracle is committed to=20 > providing continuedo< > ports of its core database and Internet technologies to=20 > OpenVMS.  OracleA > will be focusing on the faster product delivery time (within=20  > 90 days of base ; > release)  and the unsurpassed product quality on OpenVMS.o >=20 > PRODUCT AVAILABILITYA > The following products are currently available in production=20- > on Compaq Alpha-
 > OpenVMS: >=20$ > ? Oracle7 Version 7.3.4.4 with VLM$ > ? Oracle8 Version 8.0.5.1 with VLM" > ? Oracle8 Version 8.1.6 with VLM > ? Context Cartridge  > ? Spatial Data Cartridge > ? Image Data Cartridge > ? Parallel Query Option0+ > ? Parallel Server Option with OpenVMS 7.21 > ? Distributed Database Option  > ? Advanced Networking Option > ? Advanced Replication Option  > ? Partitioning Optiono > ? Object Optionc > ? Pre-Compilersw >  - C/C++, COBOL, Fortran > ? Network  >            - TCP/IPT' > ? Oracle Developer/2000 Version 1.6.1 ! > ? Oracle Application Server 3.0t$ > ? Oracle Applications Release 10.7& > ? Oracle Applications Release 11.0.3 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Oracle Corporation > World Headquarters > 500 Oracle Parkway > Redwood Shores, CA 94065 > USAe >=20 > Worldwide Inquiries: > 415.506.7000 > Fax 415.506.7200 > http://www.oracle.com/ >=20 > PRODUCT DIRECTIONS@ > The following Oracle products are planned on Alpha OpenVMS.=20 > Please check> > with your Oracle account representative for an up-to-date=20 > plan and schedule:@ > ? Oracle 8i v8.1.6.2 (will be certified to run as a backend=20 > database for > Oracle Applications 11i)F > ? Oracle 8i v8.1.7 (with RMAN & Oracle HTTP Server powered by Apach= e)
 > ? Oracle 9i2; > ? Oracle iAS (Standard Edition with Oracle Apache HTTP=20( > Server, Oracle Portal ? > Services, Oracle JVM, and Oracle Developers Kits including=20  > Database, XML andd > LDAP.) > ? Oracle Forms/Reports Servere >=20 > SUPPORTED PLATFORMS(@ > Oracle RDBMS Versions 7.3.4 and 8.0.5.1 have been certified=20 > on OpenVMS 7.1? > and 7.2. Oracle RDBMS Version 8.1.6 has been  certified on=20  > OpenVMS 7.2.B > Oracle will certify future versions of OpenVMS as they become=20 > available with1 > compatible versions of Oracle OpenVMS products.  >=20 >=20C > For more information, please send email to infodec@us.oracle.com.a >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20D > To offer our customers the most complete and effective informationB > management solutions, Oracle Corporation offers its products,=20 > along with@ > support, education, and consulting, in more than 90 countries. >=20B > This product is not yet generally available, and features and=20 > screen shots; > shown may not correspond exactly to the released product." >=20E > Oracle is a registered trademark, and Enabling the Information Age,1F > Oracle8i, Oracle8, and Oracle7 are trademarks of Oracle Corporation= .7 >=20? > All other company and product names mentioned are used for=20  > identificationB > purposes only, and may be trademarks of their respective owners. >=20' > Copyright =A9 Oracle Corporation 2000a > All Rights Reserved  >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:14:50 -0500 5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam>aB Subject: Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <8vuior$6ll$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0588D.2C2E2AB0  Content-Type: text/plain;e 	charset="iso-8859-1"o+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   G Please note that the ? marks some how got added as the bullet markers = @ the products are not in question.  I think its a micros feature.   sue     0 Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote in message =' <009F3C0B.151B2ABE@SendSpamHere.ORG>...1I >In article <8vubhb$5kt$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, "Sue Skonetski" =g' <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> writes:- >>Folks, >>5 >>I thought you might be interested in the following.p >> >>Suet6 >>____________________________________________________ >> >>Statement of Direction >>       Oracle for Compaq >>            Alpha OpenVMSt >>November 2000a >> >> >> ORACLE=92S COMMITMENT & >>PLANS FOR OPENVMS E >>Oracle and Compaq Computer Corporation have a long and successful =o
 history ofG >>delivering enterprise solutions to the OpenVMS marketplace for more =s than 20 I >>years.  The OpenVMS port remains one of Oracle=92s top six platforms, =  with aC >>large and loyal customer base. Oracle is committed to providing =s	 continuedtE >>ports of its core database and Internet technologies to OpenVMS.  =e OracleH >>will be focusing on the faster product delivery time (within 90 days = of base-; >>release)  and the unsurpassed product quality on OpenVMS.s >> >>PRODUCT AVAILABILITYJ >>The following products are currently available in production on Compaq = Alpha 
 >>OpenVMS: >>$ >>? Oracle7 Version 7.3.4.4 with VLM$ >>? Oracle8 Version 8.0.5.1 with VLM" >>? Oracle8 Version 8.1.6 with VLM >>? Context Cartridge  >>? Spatial Data Cartridge >>? Image Data Cartridge >>? Parallel Query Option-+ >>? Parallel Server Option with OpenVMS 7.2a >>? Distributed Database Option0 >>? Advanced Networking Option >>? Advanced Replication OptionI >>? Partitioning Optiong >>? Object Option6 >>? Pre-Compilers  >> - C/C++, COBOL, Fortran >>? Networke
 >{...snip...}r > G >Why are all their products questionable?  Are you saying that they areo >or are not available? >c >--v9 >VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     =S VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >          =20F >city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named = after them.o  + ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0588D.2C2E2AB0i Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"e+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablep  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>5 <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =  http-equiv=3DContent-Type>@ <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY>G <DIV><FONT size=3D5><STRONG>Please note that the ? marks some how got =- added as the=20-F bullet markers the products are not in question.&nbsp; I think its a =	 micros=20e feature.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> 5 <DIV><FONT size=3D5><STRONG>sue</STRONG></FONT></DIV>e <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>c <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> F <DIV>Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <SYSTEM@SENDSPAMHERE.ORG>wrote in =
 message=20	 &lt;<A=20 J href=3D"mailto:009F3C0B.151B2ABE@SendSpamHere.ORG">009F3C0B.151B2ABE@Send=& SpamHere.ORG</A>&gt;...</DIV>&gt;In=20 article &lt;<A=20 J href=3D"mailto:8vubhb$5kt$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com">8vubhb$5kt$1@mai=$ lint03.im.hou.compaq.com</A>&gt;,=20 "Sue Skonetski" &lt;<A=20aJ href=3D"mailto:susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam">susan.skonetski@compaq.nosp=
 am</A>&gt;=20fJ writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;Folks,<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I thought you might be=20 interested in the=20J following.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Sue<BR>&gt;&gt;________________________=@ ____________________________<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Statement=20J of Direction<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Oracle for=20J Compaq<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= nbsp;&nbsp;=20# Alpha OpenVMS<BR>&gt;&gt;November =n+ 2000<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20a2 ORACLE=92S COMMITMENT &amp;<BR>&gt;&gt;PLANS FOR =  OPENVMS<BR>&gt;&gt;Oracle and=20A Compaq Computer Corporation have a long and successful history=20 J of<BR>&gt;&gt;delivering enterprise solutions to the OpenVMS marketplace = for=20F more than 20<BR>&gt;&gt;years.&nbsp; The OpenVMS port remains one of =
 Oracle=92s=20nE top six platforms, with a<BR>&gt;&gt;large and loyal customer base. =g Oracle is=20H committed to providing continued<BR>&gt;&gt;ports of its core database = and=20C Internet technologies to OpenVMS.&nbsp; Oracle<BR>&gt;&gt;will be =h focusing on=206 the faster product delivery time (within 90 days of=20H base<BR>&gt;&gt;release)&nbsp; and the unsurpassed product quality on=20E OpenVMS.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;PRODUCT AVAILABILITY<BR>&gt;&gt;The =n following=20; products are currently available in production on Compaq=20 D Alpha<BR>&gt;&gt;OpenVMS:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;? Oracle7 Version = 7.3.4.4 with=20jH VLM<BR>&gt;&gt;? Oracle8 Version 8.0.5.1 with VLM<BR>&gt;&gt;? Oracle8 =
 Version=20J 8.1.6 with VLM<BR>&gt;&gt;? Context Cartridge<BR>&gt;&gt;? Spatial Data=20J Cartridge<BR>&gt;&gt;? Image Data Cartridge<BR>&gt;&gt;? Parallel Query=20J Option<BR>&gt;&gt;? Parallel Server Option with OpenVMS 7.2<BR>&gt;&gt;? =  > Distributed Database Option<BR>&gt;&gt;? Advanced Networking = Option<BR>&gt;&gt;?=207 Advanced Replication Option<BR>&gt;&gt;? Partitioning =  Option<BR>&gt;&gt;? Object=20i@ Option<BR>&gt;&gt;? Pre-Compilers<BR>&gt;&gt; - C/C++, COBOL,=20I Fortran<BR>&gt;&gt;? Network<BR>&gt;{...snip...}<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Why are =  all=20= their products questionable?&nbsp; Are you saying that they =L are<BR>&gt;or are=20= not available?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;VAXman- OpenVMS APE =w certification=20+ number: AAA-0001&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20rJ VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20G <BR>&gt;city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are =2 named=20 after them.</BODY></HTML>e  - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0588D.2C2E2AB0--j   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:23:26 GMT83 From: "Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> B Subject: Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS; Message-ID: <ihAU5.25186$sz3.4811631@news1.telusplanet.net>f  L I like the idea of Application Server being available on OpenVMS.  Right nowK I have to depend on an NT box and between NT and OAS, it is much less solidC than the database.   Gord.c  > Sue Skonetski <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> wrote in message0 news:8vubhb$5kt$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... > Folks, >s5 > I thought you might be interested in the following.o >  > Suer6 > ____________________________________________________ >f > Statement of Direction >        Oracle for Compaq >             Alpha OpenVMSo > November 2000u >d >v >  ORACLE'S COMMITMENT & > PLANS FOR OPENVMS K > Oracle and Compaq Computer Corporation have a long and successful historyl ofJ > delivering enterprise solutions to the OpenVMS marketplace for more than 20L > years.  The OpenVMS port remains one of Oracle's top six platforms, with aK > large and loyal customer base. Oracle is committed to providing continuedmJ > ports of its core database and Internet technologies to OpenVMS.  OracleI > will be focusing on the faster product delivery time (within 90 days of  base; > release)  and the unsurpassed product quality on OpenVMS.t >s > PRODUCT AVAILABILITYH > The following products are currently available in production on Compaq Alphae
 > OpenVMS: > $ > ? Oracle7 Version 7.3.4.4 with VLM$ > ? Oracle8 Version 8.0.5.1 with VLM" > ? Oracle8 Version 8.1.6 with VLM > ? Context Cartridgeo > ? Spatial Data Cartridge > ? Image Data Cartridge > ? Parallel Query Option + > ? Parallel Server Option with OpenVMS 7.2t > ? Distributed Database OptionI > ? Advanced Networking Option > ? Advanced Replication OptionV > ? Partitioning Optionu > ? Object Optionp > ? Pre-Compilersu >  - C/C++, COBOL, Fortran > ? Network  >            - TCP/IPf' > ? Oracle Developer/2000 Version 1.6.1c! > ? Oracle Application Server 3.08$ > ? Oracle Applications Release 10.7& > ? Oracle Applications Release 11.0.3 >i >( >n >d > Oracle Corporation > World Headquarters > 500 Oracle Parkway > Redwood Shores, CA 94065 > USAi >i > Worldwide Inquiries: > 415.506.7000 > Fax 415.506.7200 > http://www.oracle.com/ >l > PRODUCT DIRECTIONSJ > The following Oracle products are planned on Alpha OpenVMS. Please checkD > with your Oracle account representative for an up-to-date plan and	 schedule:vJ > ? Oracle 8i v8.1.6.2 (will be certified to run as a backend database for > Oracle Applications 11i)G > ? Oracle 8i v8.1.7 (with RMAN & Oracle HTTP Server powered by Apache) 
 > ? Oracle 9i G > ? Oracle iAS (Standard Edition with Oracle Apache HTTP Server, Oraclea PortalJ > Services, Oracle JVM, and Oracle Developers Kits including Database, XML and  > LDAP.) > ? Oracle Forms/Reports Server  >h > SUPPORTED PLATFORMSeL > Oracle RDBMS Versions 7.3.4 and 8.0.5.1 have been certified on OpenVMS 7.1I > and 7.2. Oracle RDBMS Version 8.1.6 has been  certified on OpenVMS 7.2.bI > Oracle will certify future versions of OpenVMS as they become availablef with1 > compatible versions of Oracle OpenVMS products.e >e >oC > For more information, please send email to infodec@us.oracle.com.s >  >i >e >c >e >n >. >  >y >h >  >cD > To offer our customers the most complete and effective informationJ > management solutions, Oracle Corporation offers its products, along with@ > support, education, and consulting, in more than 90 countries. >iL > This product is not yet generally available, and features and screen shots; > shown may not correspond exactly to the released product., >uE > Oracle is a registered trademark, and Enabling the Information Age,tF > Oracle8i, Oracle8, and Oracle7 are trademarks of Oracle Corporation. >_K > All other company and product names mentioned are used for identification B > purposes only, and may be trademarks of their respective owners. > % > Copyright  Oracle Corporation 2000E > All Rights Reservedq >m >e >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:15:12 GMTs- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>aB Subject: Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS( Message-ID: <3A22CED3.75F18298@ohio.edu>   Brian,  o     I think Sue got sandbagged by the non-translation of 8-bit characters.  I presumed they were supposed to be  bullets of some sort.e   Sue,  m     Remember that there are those of us who read your postings through 7-bit E-mail paths, and those who readPY them on Mac systems that disagree with many of the Microsoft 8-bit character assignments.a  #                                 RDPr    & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  p > In article <8vubhb$5kt$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> writes:	 > >Folks,) > >P6 > >I thought you might be interested in the following. > >7 > >Sue7 > >____________________________________________________T > >A > >Statement of Direction  > >       Oracle for Compaqj > >            Alpha OpenVMS > >November 2000 > >a > >? > > ORACLES COMMITMENT &h > >PLANS FOR OPENVMSO > >Oracle and Compaq Computer Corporation have a long and successful history ofmN > >delivering enterprise solutions to the OpenVMS marketplace for more than 20M > >years.  The OpenVMS port remains one of Oracles top six platforms, with a L > >large and loyal customer base. Oracle is committed to providing continuedK > >ports of its core database and Internet technologies to OpenVMS.  OracletO > >will be focusing on the faster product delivery time (within 90 days of base8< > >release)  and the unsurpassed product quality on OpenVMS. > >  > >PRODUCT AVAILABILITYlO > >The following products are currently available in production on Compaq Alphay > >OpenVMS:  > >o% > >? Oracle7 Version 7.3.4.4 with VLMM% > >? Oracle8 Version 8.0.5.1 with VLMs# > >? Oracle8 Version 8.1.6 with VLMa > >? Context Cartridge > >? Spatial Data Cartridgek > >? Image Data Cartridgee > >? Parallel Query Option, > >? Parallel Server Option with OpenVMS 7.2  > >? Distributed Database Option > >? Advanced Networking Option   > >? Advanced Replication Option > >? Partitioning Option > >? Object Option > >? Pre-Compilers > > - C/C++, COBOL, Fortran_ > >? Network > {...snip...} >nH > Why are all their products questionable?  Are you saying that they are > or are not available?= >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMh > Q > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.O   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 22:50:12 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)B Subject: Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS. Message-ID: <8vuof4$hqk$1@info.service.rug.nl>  = In article <3A22CED3.75F18298@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard"M <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:    o >     Remember that there are those of us who read your postings through 7-bit E-mail paths, and those who read [ > them on Mac systems that disagree with many of the Microsoft 8-bit character assignments.l   And some of read news on VMS!    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2000 14:27:24 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)oB Subject: RE: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS, Message-ID: <yHSczhqtsZTe@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  C In article <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A624A@and02.drc.com>, t.    "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com> writes:  0 > It really would be nice if Oracle Rdb would be- > an officially supported product on OpenVMS. 2 > It would also be rather pleasant if the Attunity4 > Connect "On Platform" package included the drivers > for RMS and Rdb. > :      It would also be rather nice if Oracle would market a= "standard" version of Rdb along the same lines as they do forc/ the Oracle8 product. As it stands at the momento: Rdb on boxes smaller than an ES40 is an order of magnitude; more expensive than Oracle standard edition on those boxes.r  M =============================================================================rM Malcolm Dunnett      Malaspina University-College   <my last name>@mala.bc.carH Information Systems  Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA V9R 5S5     Tel: (250)755-8738   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:47:03 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>(B Subject: Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS- Message-ID: <3A230E97.3084B1C8@earthlink.net>o   > Sue Skonetski wrote: > G > Please note that the ? marks some how got added as the bullet markers B > the products are not in question.  I think its a micros feature.  E Ideally, what you would want is a 100% MicroSoft-free desktop. That'soC entirely possible, but still a year or more away in all likelihood.=   -- 0 David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:07:23 GMTd2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>B Subject: Re: Oracle Statment of Direction for Compaq Alpha OpenVMS5 Message-ID: <vrEU5.463$OC.145527@typhoon.aracnet.com>m  2 Malcolm Dunnett <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote:< >      It would also be rather nice if Oracle would market a? > "standard" version of Rdb along the same lines as they do foro1 > the Oracle8 product. As it stands at the momentn< > Rdb on boxes smaller than an ES40 is an order of magnitude= > more expensive than Oracle standard edition on those boxes.l  E You mean like Oracle does for UNIX and NT where you can aparently get G basically a 'personal use' copy for something like $200?  If so it's mye: understanding that nothing like that is available for VMS.  / 	Zane (who still would like a Hobbyist version)    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2000 00:04:25 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Q22-bus programming6 Message-ID: <8vusq9$83a$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  j In article <A_jU5.21831$%j3.202654@news6.giganews.com>, Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes:J :Thank you for information about difference between Q-bus and Unibus.  NowH :I have another question for you.  Is Unibus programming compatible withE :Q-bus programming?  If not, what is difference between them?  I knowpK :unibus programming but need more information about Q-bus programming (funcN :specs).  K   I'd not normally have considered directly programming a Q-bus or a Unibus K   or discussing its compatibility, but I'd guess that is a really question n   of semantics...   H   In other words, please provide us with some details of the OpenVMS VAXJ   version and the speciifc VAX platform(s), details of the I/O widget(s), J   and -- most importantly -- some idea of the particular goal(s) you seek    to achieve here.  I   You will be programming a device driver for both a particular host bus )I   adapter and for a particular widget -- various differences do exist in IG   terms of the VAX host bus adapter and its particular capabilities andp1   addressing, and individual widgets vary widely..  K   Depending on the platform and the I/O widget, device drivers for a widget 7   with Q-bus and Unibus variants can be very similar...d  G   For details, dig up an OpenVMS VAX device driver reference manual andeI   the associated guide -- these two manuals were retired quite some time NE   ago, but did provide a good introduction to the sort of programmingt   that would be required.     F   Note: the code of an OpenVMS device driver operates in a privileged F   mode (kernel mode, most commonly), and programming errors in device F   driver code (or other kernel code) can lead to data corruptions and    to OpenVMS system crashes.  F   Note: if you are using the connect-to-interrupt interface or have anB   existing and debugged device driver for the widget(s), then the E   programming constructs and the programming approach typically used -H   to access the widget(s) (via connect-to-interrupt or via the existing '   device driver) are quite different.../  F   Some background on the problem and on the current system environment$   would be useful, in other words...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:04:30 GMTr% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>   Subject: Re: Q22-bus programming0 Message-ID: <3A232242.532BE520@bellatlantic.net>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:< > l > In article <A_jU5.21831$%j3.202654@news6.giganews.com>, Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes:L > :Thank you for information about difference between Q-bus and Unibus.  NowJ > :I have another question for you.  Is Unibus programming compatible withG > :Q-bus programming?  If not, what is difference between them?  I know/M > :unibus programming but need more information about Q-bus programming (funco
 > :specs). > M >   I'd not normally have considered directly programming a Q-bus or a UnibustL >   or discussing its compatibility, but I'd guess that is a really question >   of semantics...& > J >   In other words, please provide us with some details of the OpenVMS VAXK >   version and the speciifc VAX platform(s), details of the I/O widget(s),OK >   and -- most importantly -- some idea of the particular goal(s) you seeks >   to achieve here. > J >   You will be programming a device driver for both a particular host busJ >   adapter and for a particular widget -- various differences do exist inI >   terms of the VAX host bus adapter and its particular capabilities andh3 >   addressing, and individual widgets vary widely.i > M >   Depending on the platform and the I/O widget, device drivers for a widgetO9 >   with Q-bus and Unibus variants can be very similar...o > I >   For details, dig up an OpenVMS VAX device driver reference manual andeJ >   the associated guide -- these two manuals were retired quite some timeG >   ago, but did provide a good introduction to the sort of programmingi >   that would be required.d > G >   Note: the code of an OpenVMS device driver operates in a privilegedsG >   mode (kernel mode, most commonly), and programming errors in deviceVG >   driver code (or other kernel code) can lead to data corruptions andb >   to OpenVMS system crashes. > H >   Note: if you are using the connect-to-interrupt interface or have anC >   existing and debugged device driver for the widget(s), then thetF >   programming constructs and the programming approach typically usedI >   to access the widget(s) (via connect-to-interrupt or via the existingR) >   device driver) are quite different...; > H >   Some background on the problem and on the current system environment& >   would be useful, in other words... > P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   Hoff,+( Tim is going to be building an emulator.B His 10 emulator is almost done. We are all dying to get our hands  on it, and hack it.;   bobu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:12:53 +1300-9 From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz>A Subject: Re: qman journals3 Message-ID: <6KCU5.47127$SF5.863089@ozemail.com.au>n  > I think that there was a bug when you upgraded from 6.2 to 7.1   Was ok if you started on 7.1  = Had it here, and the diag 7 command worked. this shrinks youre2 your journal file back to something more sensible.  * Here are the notes that I made at the time  K        Installed qman patch on VMS machine and rebooted it to fix the large D         queue journal file size. A way of shrinking the file without+         deleting it is to do the following:l  H         To properly resize the journal file, there is an unsupported andG         undocumented utility called JBC$COMMAND.  Issuing the following C         commands causes the journal file to resize itself to a more          appropriate size.p$         $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:JBC$COMMAND          JBC$COMMAND>DIAGNOSTIC 73         After the "DIAGNOSTIC 7" command is issued,t-         control is returned to the DCL level._@         The queue manager does not have to be restarted, and theK        journal file is resized immediately after these commands are issued.d  * I guess it is one of the following patches   from  @sys$update:installed_prds alpq*   Product:$ Mnemonic: ALPQMAN02_    Version: 7.1 Installed: 6-MAR-2000o& Installed by: SYSTEM using node METHO1   Product:$ Mnemonic: ALPQMAN04_    Version: 7.0 Installed: 20-JAN-1998& Installed by: SYSTEM using node METHO1     hope this is of some help.   antony    ? "Chris Sharman" <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk> wrote in messaget( news:3A1D1A3A.7747B914@CCAgroup.co.uk... > Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > >(@ > > In article <3A1CEDF5.64007944@CCAgroup.co.uk>, Chris Sharman& <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk> writes:I > > >We're running a cluster: Alpha VMS 7.1 (server + station) + VAX 6.2. B > > >The queue manager (which runs on the Alphaserver) seems sick.I > > >It filled its system disk with 700k blocks of qman journal, which it F > > >renamed to _old & created another 170k blocks worth. Just after IJ > > >deleted the _old (saved on another disk) it 'failed over' to the sameL > > >node, losing 1000's of jobs in the process (which I can live with), andL > > >doesn't seem to be talking to anything much now: sho que/man is OK, but > > >sho que just hangs. > >,J > > Check for the ECOs. There have been definitely one (but I think, there1 > > are more) for some odd QMAN behaviour on V7.1  >r( > got alpqman02_071 (installed Feb '99).F > Not aware of anything more recent, or for VAX 6.2 (where some queues > run).u >eG > Rebooted, restarted everything, seems ok now (with a lot less jobs!).w >  > Many thanks, > Chris Sharman    ------------------------------   Date: 27 NOV 2000 17:59:42 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)+ Subject: Re: Query on DCL and tape mountingt6 Message-ID: <27NOV00.17594201@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  B In a previous article, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote: ->  d ->"Nick Lewis" <nick_lewis@flextech.co.uk> wrote in message news:3A223ECE.F555DDAC@flextech.co.uk... -> rF ->> The problem is that when backup job 1 ends,  it dismounts the tapeL ->> device thus preventing job 2 from running.  How can I prevent the endingI ->> of the job dismounting the tape unit?  Also,  do I need to INITIALIZEUK ->> the tape with any parameters which will allow the second job to use it?f -> nG ->Explicitly MOUNT and DISMOUNT the tape, rather than let BACKUP do it.nI ->You'll need the /FOREIGN qualifier. Depending on how you feel about it,c? ->you can put the /NOUNLOAD qualifier on the MOUNT or DISMOUNT.d -> eJ ->You shouldn't need any special qualifiers to run two jobs on, as long asC ->the label checks OK. Except not to put /REWIND on the second job,s- ->which would start the second BACKUP at BOT.i   An interesting sideline:  G The recent patch: VMS721_BACKUP-V0100 adds UNLOAD and NOUNLOAD featuresn
 to backup:  ;     $BACKUP/RELEASE_TAPE=NOUNLOAD      !NOUNLOAD the volumee9     $BACKUP/RELEASE_TAPE=UNLOAD        !UNLOAD the volume    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:36:24 GMTt* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>+ Subject: Re: Query on DCL and tape mountingt) Message-ID: <8vv5n9$q4c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   . In article <3A223ECE.F555DDAC@flextech.co.uk>,/   Nick Lewis <nick_lewis@flextech.co.uk> wrote: G > I have a simple query regarding a tape backup,  hopefully someone cani > help.  >l% > The current backup runs as follows:- >- > Backup Job 1 >  INITIALIZE TAPE > BACKUP DISKS 0-2 > SUBMIT BACKUP JOB 2  > END" >i > Backup Job 2 > BACKUP DISK 3a > ENDt >tD > The problem is that when backup job 1 ends,  it dismounts the tapeC > device thus preventing job 2 from running.  How can I prevent then endingG > of the job dismounting the tape unit?  Also,  do I need to INITIALIZEm  < Use MOUNT/NOUNLOAD before the BACKUP command in job 1 and/orG DISMOUNT/NOUNLOAD after the BACKUP commands in job 1. This will preventoC the tape from unloading, but job 2 will have to wait -- and it willrD wait -- for the rewind to complete, if it's started after job 1 runsD the DISMOUNT/NOUNLOAD command. Make sure *not* to include /REWIND inF your backup commands. This will allow adding new save sets to the tape" without overwriting the first one.  @ [ Amazingly, several years ago, I did a more remarkable hand-offF maneuver, including the changing of tapes, on a pdp11/70 running Unix.G We were doing a multi-reel backup. When one of the intermediate volumesvG rewound, we mounted a tape for a different backup, ran that backup from C a different terminal, rewound and removed the tape, put on the nexthF tape for the first backup, and pressed return on the first terminal toF continue that backup! I think VMS does not allow this for security and volume integrity reasons. ]   E > the tape with any parameters which will allow the second job to used it?p) > Both jobs run under the SYSTEM account.n  F No. If SYSTEM wrote it, SYSTEM owns it and can append new save sets toE it, unless, perhaps, if you go out of your way to set the protectionspC otherwise. But even then, VOLPRO priv lets you write to any volume.lF Just make sure to *not* use /REWIND (the default is /NOREWIND) for theG second and other subsequent save sets on that tape. Actually, since youV3 explicitly INIT the tape, don't use /REWIND at all.w  E > I will not get in to why the backup is split in such a way,  but ite has  > to be.   Why not?   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)/ w: afeldman@gfigroup.BorisYeltsinCooksCajun.comn5 h: alan48@dellnet.YouCantBelieveEverythingYouRead.comc    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 19:34:00 GMT8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)1 Subject: Re: REQ: Lexmark Printer Control Librarye6 Message-ID: <8vucv8$5nl$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  J In article <8vnu77$2v81$1@news.comnet.co.nz>, srlnrow@read.the.sig writes:6 >In Article <8u6kgn$14d$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>; >hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:= /..=@ >>          [Lexmark] faxed me about ten pages of control codes. > O >Are those control codes for what IBM call PPDS (Personal Printer Data Stream)?t  ; Don't know.  The pages I got are headed "PCL5/PCL5e Codes".-   My best advice remains --e  5 >>Call LEXMARK.  The number I have is 1-800-553-6275.i.                                              |.         Note corrected number! --------------'.                                               H >                               ... Of course, the manual that came withI >the printer didn't cover the control codes at all - unlike the "good oldtK >days" when manuals contained code tables and circuit diagrams and so on...s.                                               I Ah -- a fellow dinosaur!  Yes, the "good old days"...when you didn't need-H a long explaination of icons because things were presented in words that) could actually convey meaning....  {sigh}t  E (I don't object to icons per se, just to the typically badly designeda WIMPy interfaces we see today.)1   -- EK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA@F          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:11:29 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugheri- Message-ID: <3A230641.A7E035CE@earthlink.net>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > A > Isn't SunRay Sun's solution to servers with too much idle time?f   ...or too much uptime...   -- c David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:33:14 -06000/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>r Subject: SW Raid 310 and VMSO Message-ID: <2935D81F548AC499.4D3A3160FC592068.AC1DD4F1F621523E@lp.airnews.net>u  = How well does the StorageWorks Raid 310 system work with VMS?   + What versions are required? (VAX and Alpha)    Thanx!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------.$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com o   Fax: 817-237-3074y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:38:00 -0600i/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>o# Subject: Re: System Service and RTLaO Message-ID: <58FAD3B2EA60FED3.22910A595EE4FFAC.9B4A53B35335CC31@lp.airnews.net>r   Burne wrote: >  > Hello, > F > Some basic question about system services and RTL routine existence. > H > I was wondering why do we have two different services one named System@ > Service and another RTL routines, for doing a similar service.K > For example we have sys$creprc which would create a process and lib$spawn L > which would also create a process. If there is no difference between them, > then why is VMS providing it.e > N > I read somewhere that the so called jacket routines(RTL) in turn make use of= > the system service to get their service done,is this TRUE ?p  < Yes, the jacket routines use the system services internally.  E In some cases, the jacket routines were provided to make it easier to E use the system services.  In particular, note that many of the jacketaF routines pass arguments by reference, whereas the system services passD the same arguments by value.  This makes it easier to use the jacket( routines from such languages as FORTRAN.  D BTW: Your example of SYS$CREPRC and LIB$SPAWN was a bad one.  If youB read the documentation carefully, you will see that SYS$CREPRC andE LIB$SPAWN are VERY different.  They each do things that the other canr not do.e  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com g   Fax: 817-237-3074f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:42:12 -0600o/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>'# Subject: Re: System Service and RTLlO Message-ID: <81AAEF6927C1B7A7.1EB43BDF74F59ACA.DE584AE41081945F@lp.airnews.net>e   Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Burne wrote:H > > Some basic question about system services and RTL routine existence. > >SJ > > I was wondering why do we have two different services one named SystemB > > Service and another RTL routines, for doing a similar service.M > > For example we have sys$creprc which would create a process and lib$spawnoN > > which would also create a process. If there is no difference between them,! > > then why is VMS providing it.  > >eP > > I read somewhere that the so called jacket routines(RTL) in turn make use of? > > the system service to get their service done,is this TRUE ?h > E > RTL routines uses system services. RTL routines are just a library.s > SystemI > services are integrated in the OS. RTL routines can only be called fromnI > user mode. System services can be called from inner modes. RTL routinesiD > supports all kinds of strings. System services supports only fixed > length strings. E > RTL routines use simple arguments. System services uses item lists.v > D > RTL routines are "high level" interfaces. System services are "low > level"
 > interfaces.  > J > Actually your example with SYS$CREPRC and LIB$SPAWN are very good ! TheyI > can do the same. But try code the same functionality. You find out that H > LIB$SPAWN can be done in 5 lines, while SYS$CREPRC may take you 25-250H > lines depending on what you want. You can ofcourse also do some thingsG > with SYS$CREPRC that you can not do with LIB$SPAWN. It is the classict > simplicity versus features.a  D Actually, the example of SYS$CREPRC and LIB$SPAWN is a very bad one!  B For example, SYS$CREPRC can create a detached process.  (LIB$SPAWN can't)  G LIB$SPAWN can copy your DCL context to the new process.  (SYS$CREPRC by D itself can not do this.  Actually, there is no documented way (other# than LIB$SPAWN) to do this at all.)a  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074.   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2000 00:15:54 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: System Service and RTLb6 Message-ID: <8vutfq$86b$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  Y In article <8vtfgq$dri@usenet.pa.dec.com>, "Burne" <a.krishnamoorthy@digital.com> writes: G :I was wondering why do we have two different services one named Systemg? :Service and another RTL routines, for doing a similar service.r  B   Most commonly, the RTL routines are easier to call from certain D   languages, or provide more complex capabilities than are available   directly via system services.a  J :For example we have sys$creprc which would create a process and lib$spawnK :which would also create a process. If there is no difference between them,l :then why is VMS providing it.  I   The RTL lib$spawn call provides a different interface, and specificallyeF   provides a mechanism for creating a subprocess in a DCL environment.H   The sys$creprc call provides this capability and others, but it is not"   as easy to call as is lib$spawn.  M :I read somewhere that the so called jacket routines(RTL) in turn make use ofd< :the system service to get their service done,is this TRUE ?     Yes, it is quite true.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:52:46 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d# Subject: Re: System Service and RTLe, Message-ID: <3A230FDF.47E9B705@videotron.ca>   Here is a question:n  J Is it possible that the LIB$/RTL rely on the presence of a DCL.EXE commandN interpreter whereas SYS$ don't make any assumption on what context the process is running under ?   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 17:38 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o! Subject: Re: TACACS SERVER V2.2.3g- Message-ID: <27NOV200017381938@gerg.tamu.edu>   4 Michael Angello <techwebsite@netscape.net> writes... }Hello,rF }  I am using OVMS AXP V7.2, DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS AlphaI }Version V5.0, currently using Compaq C V6.2-003, and I need to install a F }TACACS Server, so I tried to install TACACS SERVER V2.2.3 for VMS and8 }MULTINET, but I cannot generate the correect AXP image, }  }Mike.  G If you have DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0, whyi' did you try to build this for Multinet?i  B Multinet is a completely different IP stack. It comes from Process Software not Compaq.  C You need to either install the software for the correct IP stack or  change to Multinet.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:56:38 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)w' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections10 Message-ID: <009F3C0A.B554B1AC@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <8vu7uu$527r$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:
 >{...snip...}tJ >In my opinion, there will be no answer that will make anyone happy.  GoreI >won the popular vote, even if the margin was slim.  But he will lose thehM >election by a margin so small in a single state, where even Republicans must M >admit that without technical problems in a few places, Bush would and shouldoK >have lost.  So he will have no real moral right to "lead", having won on asK >technicality.  Let's see if we now have 4 years of searching for the womeneM >that Bush slept with, and if he prefers coke to pot - as retribution for the 0 >Clinton fishing expedition of the last 6 years.  ; ... and so well spoken without any Democrat biases... NOT. u  I Can we keep these distasteful political biases and this entire thread outzI of this newsgroup... Please!  It is certainly unbecoming of the technicaleI talent that is usually found here.  The three great conversational taboosnJ of sex, religion and politics have their own newsgroups wherein one can be0 taken up into the maelstrom of personal opinion.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.o   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2000 15:07:24 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionsn+ Message-ID: <aotCh5+ss7LE@eisner.decus.org>   d In article <8vu7uu$527r$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:   > M > Of course, the margin of victory could still be within the margin of error.f > K > In my opinion, there will be no answer that will make anyone happy.  GorehJ > won the popular vote, even if the margin was slim.  But he will lose theN > election by a margin so small in a single state, where even Republicans mustN > admit that without technical problems in a few places, Bush would and shouldN   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > have lost.     ^^^^^^^^^n  < 	Ummm.  No.  This isn't correct at all.  What is lost in all= 	the noise at times is just what the hand counts involve.  Ofh? 	the counties chosen, those are all heavily Democratic counties G 	to hand count.  Gore initially proposed that because of "discrepencies A 	, etc." they should be recounted.  What folks don't hear (unless-D 	you watch A LOT of this cruft and read A LOT of this cruft) is that@ 	the error rate was just as high or higher in hevaily RepublicanB 	counties (Jacksonville area for instance).  In the entire FloridaB 	election, there were an estimated 75000 undercounts (i.e. ballots> 	machines could not read) of those, 25000 were in the heavily B 	Democratic counties that still leaves 50000 undercounts that will< 	probably never get counted , the vast majority of those in  	"Republican" counties.n   	Spin it all you want.      @ > So he will have no real moral right to "lead", having won on aL > technicality.  Let's see if we now have 4 years of searching for the womenN > that Bush slept with, and if he prefers coke to pot - as retribution for the1 > Clinton fishing expedition of the last 6 years.  >   D 	Ha ha ha.. This is laughable.  Bush hasn't had a drink in 14 years.? 	I stopped drinking as a habit on July 3rd 1981 but had my fairlC 	share at CETS2000 and about 3 or 6 other times a year.  The guy iscB 	clean as a whistle - now.  Many of us have had our own "youthful"$ 	indescretions or sins of our youth.  M > On the other hand, the Republicans have been so pissed about Bush the elderaJ > losing to Clinton - and Clinton playing them like a fiddle - that unlessL > this had been a landslide victory for Gore, they will never accept defeat.M > Gore will end up with 4 more years of acrimony (which I might add is reallyeJ > the Gingrich scorched-earch legacy) and divisiveness, with all the rightF > wing Sunday morning talking heads talking about how Gore "stole" the > election.. >   F 	"Stole"... you mean attempting to steal?  If he was really interestedD 	in seeing exactly what took place in the so called undercounts, he A 	could have done us all a favor and insisted on a statewide hand ZF 	recount.  But he didn't.  He just somehow managed to pick and choose  	to his own liking.   $ http://www.msnbc.com/news/491164.asp   	GORE: PEOPLE SHOULD PREVAIL  M After the Florida Supreme Court's ruling, Gore quickly summoned TV cameras tonL his home in Washington. "I firmly believe that the will of the people shouldK prevail and I am gratified that the court's decision will allow us to honorTK that simple constitutional principle," Gore said, pledging to "move forwardo& with a full, fair and accurate count."  )     Scratch that!  This is more accurate:o  ) GORE: SOUTH FLORIDA PEOPLE SHOULD PREVAIL   M After the Florida Supreme Court's ruling, Gore quickly summoned TV cameras tomN his home in Washington. "I firmly believe that the will of the people of the 4K heavily Democratic South Florida counties should prevail and I am gratifiedfK that the court's decision will allow us to honor that simple constitutionalwO principle," Gore said, pledging to "move forward with a full, fair and accurate ; count in select heavily Democratic South Florida counties."     B 	Here's another one for you... A survey started *before* the polls< 	actually closed in Florida by a Texas telemarketing firm on9 	behalf of the Democrats contacted 5000 Palm Beach Countyi> 	voters and a full 2400 "had difficulty" with the ballot.  You= 	tell me the questions they were asking to cook up a problem?p8 	A ballot that 4th graders can use without difficulties. 	  	Full text found here:  4                     IN A CONFUSED PALM BEACH COUNTY,3                     COMPLAINTS CAME EARLY AND OFTENe  , 		    SUE ANNE PRESSLEY; GEORGE LARDNER JR. 2                     WASHINGTON POST STAFF WRITERS ;                     Saturday, November 11, 2000 ; Page A01 u'                     Section: A Section c  O "Realtor Tony Jordan, 58, could not figure out his presidential ballot--it made L no sense, he said. He stared at it for a good five minutes, but the holes he6 was supposed to punch did not line up with the names."   > 1 > It is truly a shame that either one has to win.e >   9 	Depends on your perspective I suppose.  But don't get mep> 	started or out comes Peggy Noonan's New York Times piece !!!!     				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:45:14 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections 8 Message-ID: <009F3C11.7F5B4926@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  I [Anybody interested in VMS relevant content should just move on the next mG post now.  I'm already sorry I'm responding to this piece.  I'm arguing F with Rob Young here, which bothers me because I often agree with him.]      = >	Ummm.  No.  This isn't correct at all.  What is lost in all > >	the noise at times is just what the hand counts involve.  Of@ >	the counties chosen, those are all heavily Democratic countiesH >	to hand count.  Gore initially proposed that because of "discrepenciesB >	, etc." they should be recounted.  What folks don't hear (unlessE >	you watch A LOT of this cruft and read A LOT of this cruft) is thattA >	the error rate was just as high or higher in hevaily RepublicaneC >	counties (Jacksonville area for instance).  In the entire FloridatC >	election, there were an estimated 75000 undercounts (i.e. ballots ? >	machines could not read) of those, 25000 were in the heavily dC >	Democratic counties that still leaves 50000 undercounts that willi= >	probably never get counted , the vast majority of those in . >	"Republican" counties. >c >	Spin it all you want.  t  K Actually, Gore couldn't get a hand count of every county without RepublicanrJ cooperation, whicgh has not been forthcoming.  He proposed a hand count ofF every county in Florida, with both sides agreeing beforehand to acceptH whatever the results were with no further court action.  Bush refused to discuss it.-   >- >- >-G >	"Stole"... you mean attempting to steal?  If he was really interestedeE >	in seeing exactly what took place in the so called undercounts, he eB >	could have done us all a favor and insisted on a statewide hand G >	recount.  But he didn't.  He just somehow managed to pick and choose f >	to his own liking. >.% >http://www.msnbc.com/news/491164.asp  >t  G He can't get a statewide hand recount unless the Republicans agree; the K Republicans are instead insisting that hand recounts are less accurate thantG machine recounts, despite George W. Bush having signed into law a bill fJ declaring hand recounts the preferred mechanism for disputed elections in , Texas.  Just a trifle hypocritical, I think.   >,C >	Here's another one for you... A survey started *before* the pollse= >	actually closed in Florida by a Texas telemarketing firm ona: >	behalf of the Democrats contacted 5000 Palm Beach County? >	voters and a full 2400 "had difficulty" with the ballot.  Yous> >	tell me the questions they were asking to cook up a problem?9 >	A ballot that 4th graders can use without difficulties.   I Fourth-graders didn't have to use it after a printing error that affected-F something like half the ballots meant it didn't line up correctly in aG Votomatic, after having studied a sample ballot that was in a different-@ format.  Nor are fourth graders old and frail.  It was certainlyH unfortunate that the poll attendants had been ordered not to help anyoneH who had questions (because they wanted to people to vote and get out for. high throughput in a high-turnout election).    H But why bring it up?  Do you believe that the Democrats deliberately hadG people vote for Buchanan in amazingly disproportionate numbers so that eC could Gore could lose the state by a margin small enough to triggervG Florida's legally-mandated automatic recount after Bush's cousin at FoxiH News Channel called the state for Bush - followed by other networks - soI that it could look like Gore was trying to overturn a done deal, enabling D Republican spin doctors to  immediately start painting the automatic> recount as Gore being a sore loser?   I just have real troubleB understanding what the Democrat conspiracy is supposed to be here.  1 -- Alan (sorry, couldn't let Rob's "facts" stand)   O ===============================================================================p0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056tM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210nO ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2000 00:52:24 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections-, Message-ID: <8vuvk8$ri7@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  d In article <8vu7uu$527r$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >-0 >It is truly a shame that either one has to win. >0  I Couldn't agree with you more on that one.  Except that there's an outsideR) chance neither one will become president.A  E If they fight each other really hard, tie everything up in the courtsVF through December, foment a massive constitutional crisis AND the HouseJ Republicans don't have the nerve (or votes) to put Bush in we could end up with President Hastert.n   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edut? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech r   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2000 21:13:54 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionsd+ Message-ID: <5ZigI389geoj@eisner.decus.org>    In article <009F3C11.7F5B4926@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:eK > [Anybody interested in VMS relevant content should just move on the next eI > post now.  I'm already sorry I'm responding to this piece.  I'm arguingSH > with Rob Young here, which bothers me because I often agree with him.] >  >  > > >>	Ummm.  No.  This isn't correct at all.  What is lost in all? >>	the noise at times is just what the hand counts involve.  OflA >>	the counties chosen, those are all heavily Democratic countiesiI >>	to hand count.  Gore initially proposed that because of "discrepenciesSC >>	, etc." they should be recounted.  What folks don't hear (unlessyF >>	you watch A LOT of this cruft and read A LOT of this cruft) is thatB >>	the error rate was just as high or higher in hevaily RepublicanD >>	counties (Jacksonville area for instance).  In the entire FloridaD >>	election, there were an estimated 75000 undercounts (i.e. ballots@ >>	machines could not read) of those, 25000 were in the heavily D >>	Democratic counties that still leaves 50000 undercounts that will> >>	probably never get counted , the vast majority of those in  >>	"Republican" counties.e >> >>	Spin it all you want.   > M > Actually, Gore couldn't get a hand count of every county without RepublicanhL > cooperation, whicgh has not been forthcoming.  He proposed a hand count ofH > every county in Florida, with both sides agreeing beforehand to acceptJ > whatever the results were with no further court action.  Bush refused to
 > discuss it.- >   @ 	So where does it say he is limited to only selecting 4 countiesD 	for a hand recount?  It doesn't.  He initially selected 4 counties,? 	he could have also selected 20 but he didn't.  Or am I missingv 	something?e     > K > Fourth-graders didn't have to use it after a printing error that affecteddH > something like half the ballots meant it didn't line up correctly in aI > Votomatic, after having studied a sample ballot that was in a differentiB > format.  Nor are fourth graders old and frail.  It was certainlyJ > unfortunate that the poll attendants had been ordered not to help anyoneJ > who had questions (because they wanted to people to vote and get out for0 > high throughput in a high-turnout election).   >   9 	And yet directions are clearly posted in polling places.h8 	"Check your ballot, etc."  If they screw it up they can< 	get another one and re-enter the booth.  So now we pity theC 	old folks because they can't follow directions?  Maybe they shouldy= 	have Republican and Democratic operatives for us to vote for > 	us as surrogates if we are too challenged to get beyond a 4th
 	grade level?d    J > But why bring it up?  Do you believe that the Democrats deliberately hadI > people vote for Buchanan in amazingly disproportionate numbers so that -E > could Gore could lose the state by a margin small enough to triggerfI > Florida's legally-mandated automatic recount after Bush's cousin at FoxoJ > News Channel called the state for Bush - followed by other networks - soK > that it could look like Gore was trying to overturn a done deal, enabling>F > Republican spin doctors to  immediately start painting the automatic@ > recount as Gore being a sore loser?   I just have real troubleD > understanding what the Democrat conspiracy is supposed to be here. > 3 > -- Alan (sorry, couldn't let Rob's "facts" stand)S  > 	That's okay.  I have plenty more facts where those come from.A 	Interesting you should bring up Buchanan.  In Palm Beach County,i? 	Reform Party registration was up 100% this year... for a totalI> 	of 16000 registered Reform Party voters.  In the 1996 primary@ 	in Palm Beach County Buchanan garnered 9600 votes.  It wouldn'tF 	be unusual for him to get 3100 in the presidential election regarding; 	these facts which are conveniently left out of most of theX 	"Buchanan Factor" discussions.v  E 	It isn't so much about a consipiracy.  What it is about is selectiverF 	presentation.  "Oh the poor disenfranchised voters of South Florida."A 	Give me a break.  What about the other 63 counties?  If Gore hadiA 	selected 4 Southern counties and an equal number of "Republican"uC 	counties to counter-balance it, I would say that is more realistic2# 	and would be real tough to refute.m     				Rob.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:00:52 GMTiL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections"8 Message-ID: <009F3C2C.D3760B2A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  X In article <5ZigI389geoj@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: >In article <009F3C11.7F5B4926@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:L >> [Anybody interested in VMS relevant content should just move on the next J >> post now.  I'm already sorry I'm responding to this piece.  I'm arguingI >> with Rob Young here, which bothers me because I often agree with him.]o [I'm still sorry.]     >,A >	So where does it say he is limited to only selecting 4 countiesfE >	for a hand recount?  It doesn't.  He initially selected 4 counties,t@ >	he could have also selected 20 but he didn't.  Or am I missing >	something?  J And why is it up to Gore to ask for recounts of heavy Republican counties?G That option was completely open to the Bush campaign, which has had no  G problems with the idea of recounts in other states.  They chose not to n exercise that option.    >e >a >> pL >> Fourth-graders didn't have to use it after a printing error that affectedI >> something like half the ballots meant it didn't line up correctly in a J >> Votomatic, after having studied a sample ballot that was in a differentC >> format.  Nor are fourth graders old and frail.  It was certainlymK >> unfortunate that the poll attendants had been ordered not to help anyonenK >> who had questions (because they wanted to people to vote and get out for@1 >> high throughput in a high-turnout election).  a >> . >.: >	And yet directions are clearly posted in polling places.9 >	"Check your ballot, etc."  If they screw it up they can,+ >	get another one and re-enter the booth.  e  I Well, um, according to affidavits, no.  Poll workers refused to give themwK new ballots, and in at least one case grabbed the ballot out of the voter'se* hand and deposited it over their protests.  N Those people say they didn't mean to vote for Buchanan; Buchanan himself says L those votes were clearly meant for Gore.  However, nobody is suggesting thatL those ballots be revoted, which would be the only actual cure for this, and O nobody has suggested that the spoiled (two-vote) ballots be counted for Gore inrH a recount, except that Republican spinmeisters dismissively suggest thatJ Democrats suggest it.  It is, however, indicative that the popular vote inN Florida - like the rest of the nation - may have been intended for Gore, so itN seems to behoove us that all the votes that can legitimately be counted should be counted.      >       So now we pity theD >	old folks because they can't follow directions?  Maybe they should> >	have Republican and Democratic operatives for us to vote for? >	us as surrogates if we are too challenged to get beyond a 4th0 >	grade level?    Was that proposal on the table?    >h >aK >> But why bring it up?  Do you believe that the Democrats deliberately had J >> people vote for Buchanan in amazingly disproportionate numbers so that F >> could Gore could lose the state by a margin small enough to triggerJ >> Florida's legally-mandated automatic recount after Bush's cousin at FoxK >> News Channel called the state for Bush - followed by other networks - sohL >> that it could look like Gore was trying to overturn a done deal, enablingG >> Republican spin doctors to  immediately start painting the automatic3A >> recount as Gore being a sore loser?   I just have real trouble E >> understanding what the Democrat conspiracy is supposed to be here.o >>  4 >> -- Alan (sorry, couldn't let Rob's "facts" stand) >d? >	That's okay.  I have plenty more facts where those come from. B >	Interesting you should bring up Buchanan.  In Palm Beach County,@ >	Reform Party registration was up 100% this year... for a total? >	of 16000 registered Reform Party voters.  In the 1996 primaryiA >	in Palm Beach County Buchanan garnered 9600 votes.  It wouldn't G >	be unusual for him to get 3100 in the presidential election regarding < >	these facts which are conveniently left out of most of the  >	"Buchanan Factor" discussions. >gF >	It isn't so much about a consipiracy.  What it is about is selectiveG >	presentation.  "Oh the poor disenfranchised voters of South Florida." B >	Give me a break.  What about the other 63 counties?  If Gore hadB >	selected 4 Southern counties and an equal number of "Republican"D >	counties to counter-balance it, I would say that is more realistic$ >	and would be real tough to refute.    . I don't think that addresses the point at all. >   M Gore was willing to recount all the counties in Florida and was restricted tooN a few by lack of Republican cooperation.  It's not his job to ask for recounts7 of Republican-held counties; it's the Republican's job.h >    -- Alanr  O ===============================================================================r0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056fM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210fO ===============================================================================w   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2000 23:45:02 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)' Subject: Re: Technology of US elections'+ Message-ID: <e2PL6w7$Nq22@eisner.decus.org>f   In article <009F3C2C.D3760B2A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:vZ > In article <5ZigI389geoj@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: >>In article <009F3C11.7F5B4926@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: M >>> [Anybody interested in VMS relevant content should just move on the next NK >>> post now.  I'm already sorry I'm responding to this piece.  I'm arguing J >>> with Rob Young here, which bothers me because I often agree with him.] > [I'm still sorry.] >  >  >>B >>	So where does it say he is limited to only selecting 4 countiesF >>	for a hand recount?  It doesn't.  He initially selected 4 counties,A >>	he could have also selected 20 but he didn't.  Or am I missingc
 >>	something?u > L > And why is it up to Gore to ask for recounts of heavy Republican counties?I > That option was completely open to the Bush campaign, which has had no uI > problems with the idea of recounts in other states.  They chose not to - > exercise that option.a >   = 	Oh.  So I take it you admit either candidate could selectiveE> 	pick and choose which counties to have a hand recount in?  Of> 	course that is one of the questions before the courts.  Seems= 	regarding due process (14th amendment issue) the courts willh< 	have to decide whether or not it is "right" or "correct" to= 	pick and choose like that.  After all, the other voters thatw@ 	are overlooked in such matter have had "their rights violated."C 	"Disenfranchised" and all that boo-hoo language that goes with it.t  + 	What other recounts?  None that I know of.    >> >> >>> M >>> Fourth-graders didn't have to use it after a printing error that affectedlJ >>> something like half the ballots meant it didn't line up correctly in aK >>> Votomatic, after having studied a sample ballot that was in a differentAD >>> format.  Nor are fourth graders old and frail.  It was certainlyL >>> unfortunate that the poll attendants had been ordered not to help anyoneL >>> who had questions (because they wanted to people to vote and get out for2 >>> high throughput in a high-turnout election).   >>>  >>; >>	And yet directions are clearly posted in polling places. : >>	"Check your ballot, etc."  If they screw it up they can, >>	get another one and re-enter the booth.   > K > Well, um, according to affidavits, no.  Poll workers refused to give themtM > new ballots, and in at least one case grabbed the ballot out of the voter'si, > hand and deposited it over their protests. >   ? 	One counter-example does not a case make.  Just like LiebermaneD 	the other night interjected the term "violence" in this whole mess.> 	"Violence" is far from the issue.  Shoot, you and I both knowD 	that if there had been violence anywhere it would have been smeeredF 	across FondaVision and MSNBC and the whole lot of them.  Just becauseG 	somebody swung on a cop somewhere we now have to deal with "violence."a< 	Pleeezzz.  They are raising the rhetoric to bizarre levels.  R http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/elect2000/pres/wire2/20001124/tCB00V0855.html  @ 	"This is a time for patience and respect, not intimidation and  	violence."e   	Show me the violence.  P > Those people say they didn't mean to vote for Buchanan; Buchanan himself says , > those votes were clearly meant for Gore.    B 	What's he know?  He's just a troublemaker.  He didn't suggest theA 	9000+ Palm Beach County votes he got in 1996 in the Presidential C 	Primary were meant for Dole.  He's clearly causing trouble.  FunnyaB 	we don't hear about all the trouble they had with the 1996 ballot# 	and the accidental Buchanan votes.b  $ > However, nobody is suggesting thatN > those ballots be revoted, which would be the only actual cure for this, and Q > nobody has suggested that the spoiled (two-vote) ballots be counted for Gore intJ > a recount, except that Republican spinmeisters dismissively suggest thatL > Democrats suggest it.  It is, however, indicative that the popular vote inP > Florida - like the rest of the nation - may have been intended for Gore, so itP > seems to behoove us that all the votes that can legitimately be counted should
 > be counted.t >  >  >>       So now we pity the E >>	old folks because they can't follow directions?  Maybe they should ? >>	have Republican and Democratic operatives for us to vote foro@ >>	us as surrogates if we are too challenged to get beyond a 4th >>	grade level?h > " > Was that proposal on the table?  >   B 	No.  What's that got to do with it?  We have old folks that can't> 	punch through a ballot and clearly can't follow directions so0 	we get a surrogate and help them out next time.   >> >>L >>> But why bring it up?  Do you believe that the Democrats deliberately hadK >>> people vote for Buchanan in amazingly disproportionate numbers so that lG >>> could Gore could lose the state by a margin small enough to triggerrK >>> Florida's legally-mandated automatic recount after Bush's cousin at Fox=L >>> News Channel called the state for Bush - followed by other networks - soM >>> that it could look like Gore was trying to overturn a done deal, enablingLH >>> Republican spin doctors to  immediately start painting the automaticB >>> recount as Gore being a sore loser?   I just have real troubleF >>> understanding what the Democrat conspiracy is supposed to be here. >>> 5 >>> -- Alan (sorry, couldn't let Rob's "facts" stand)h >>@ >>	That's okay.  I have plenty more facts where those come from.C >>	Interesting you should bring up Buchanan.  In Palm Beach County,cA >>	Reform Party registration was up 100% this year... for a totals@ >>	of 16000 registered Reform Party voters.  In the 1996 primaryB >>	in Palm Beach County Buchanan garnered 9600 votes.  It wouldn'tH >>	be unusual for him to get 3100 in the presidential election regarding= >>	these facts which are conveniently left out of most of thec! >>	"Buchanan Factor" discussions.m >>G >>	It isn't so much about a consipiracy.  What it is about is selective(H >>	presentation.  "Oh the poor disenfranchised voters of South Florida."C >>	Give me a break.  What about the other 63 counties?  If Gore hadfC >>	selected 4 Southern counties and an equal number of "Republican"-E >>	counties to counter-balance it, I would say that is more realistico% >>	and would be real tough to refute.  >  > 0 > I don't think that addresses the point at all. >    	What point?    O > Gore was willing to recount all the counties in Florida and was restricted to-P > a few by lack of Republican cooperation.  It's not his job to ask for recounts9 > of Republican-held counties; it's the Republican's job.y    B 	Cut and paste me out a fact that reflects that.  Show me where heB 	attempted to have hand counts occur in Republican counties but he= 	was denied by the local canvassing board(s).  I have watchedn? 	and read tons of material regarding this in the last few weeksc@ 	and have yet to have heard that angle.  I took a few minutes to; 	find something along those lines but came up dry.  Show mee 	the money!e  D 	Besides, the Republican's aren't interested in hand recounts.  They@ 	don't have to pour through ballots interpreting voter intent as= 	they were ahead and are still ahead at the end of the day.  n? 	We can spend a great deal of time going over this... we won't o> 	convince each other.  But one question you might want to ask H 	yourself - as Al Gore drapes himself in the flag - is:  If Al Gore was H 	so intersted in doing the "will of the people", how could the "will of @ 	the people" be such a select group of Southern Floridians that C 	represent 1/3 of the votes cast in all of Florida?  Or is he only lD 	interested in a select group that could - with enough wrangling and/ 	interpretation - get him what he really wants?    				Robd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:24:36 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionso, Message-ID: <3A23255F.5870E75A@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:B >         And yet directions are clearly posted in polling places.A >         "Check your ballot, etc."  If they screw it up they cand1 >         get another one and re-enter the booth.r  D You are maming quite an assumption here. It is not a given that thatL particular county to have had clearly laden rules on how to fill out ballots: and that ballots not properly filled would NOT be counted.  J Had those rules been clearly laid out, I suspect that there would not haveI been any discussions about pregnant ballots, dimples, pimples and hangingeJ parts. There would have been a request for a manual recount and that is itJ (sicne the rules would have been laid out in advance, there would not haveC been any discussion on HOW the manual recount woudl have proceeded.   L This is a bit like a disaster recovery plan.  The time to plan is BEFORE theL disaster so that during the disaster you have written procedures that define4 what you can and cannot to to ensure data integrity.    I Interestingly, the canadian networks took 25 minutes to call who the nextgN prime minister would be, but they are admitting that due to the snafues in theL USA, they don't yet want to call the "majority government" prediction. Oops,1 as I type this, they just called the majority....m   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:34:00 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionsh, Message-ID: <3A231986.59661430@videotron.ca>   David Mathog wrote:rG > If they fight each other really hard, tie everything up in the courts H > through December, foment a massive constitutional crisis AND the HouseL > Republicans don't have the nerve (or votes) to put Bush in we could end up > with President Hastert.y  ; Isn't Monica Lewinsky next in line for presidency ? :-) :-)l  K Seriously though,  your elections have shown the dangers of poor technologyaJ when combined with poor election rules. Whomever is in charge of running aN ballot (county, state, country, legislative or court) should have had PRIOR TON THE ELECTIONS, clear and written rules on how recounts should be done and whatN types of ballots/markings are accept. And this assumes that the election boardV is fully aware of the weaknesses and features of the election system they have chosen.  B The problem is that those who write the rules might succomb to theM brainwashing from the voting system vendor and not be aware of the weaknesseskA of the system and thus the rules they write may not be realistic.t   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Nov 2000 01:39:15 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)' Subject: Re: Technology of US electionse+ Message-ID: <wb6hMDpr1d9X@eisner.decus.org>-  \ In article <3A231986.59661430@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > David Mathog wrote:rH >> If they fight each other really hard, tie everything up in the courtsI >> through December, foment a massive constitutional crisis AND the House M >> Republicans don't have the nerve (or votes) to put Bush in we could end upR >> with President Hastert. > = > Isn't Monica Lewinsky next in line for presidency ? :-) :-)w > M > Seriously though,  your elections have shown the dangers of poor technology * > when combined with poor election rules.   D 	Poor technology?  But the Canadians take a marker and mark a ballotC 	and drop it in a box and all ballots are counted by hand.  SomehowoE 	I don't view that as superior technology especially when we probably ( 	have to count 10 times as many ballots.   				Robo   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:42:44 GMTg From: richard_maher@my-deja.comp" Subject: The Truth is Marching On!) Message-ID: <8vurhj$i59$1@nnrp1.deja.com>p   Hi,o  < > although I doubt that it was a "Functional Specification".  < Nope, definitely a Functional Specification. In fact it's :-   DECdtm Services Version 1.2  Functional Specification  G The crazy thing about this is, after eight years this is still probablyt# the latest and greatest version :-(r  E This is why I am not making an idle boast when I tell you that I will F write my own TIP$PULL routine (Ok TIP$INIT, TIP$FINI etc as well) when= I get back from holidays in February. (Unless, of course, VMSoE engineering has come to its senses and done what was necessary to geto TIP compatibility)  F Unfortunately nobody was in a position to tell me how to do it but theE fact that ACMSxp has proven that it can be done means that I'm prettyyC confident about getting it working. And so far no one has taken then@ bait and denounced my theory about being a coordinating resource manager :-)s  4 I forgot to say "Time and Money permitting" as well.  0 > subject to the standard destruction agreement.  A Was this Digital or Sun? I've never had to sign any such labotomymD agreement but then maybe all those years ago I was just in the right9 place at the right time as it was coming off the presses.h   Regards Richard Maherh  ? PS. I have to own up to being sad enough to have caught the endtG of "Driving Miss Daisy" the other day and heard a segment from a Martin,? Luther King speach that (hopelessly paraphrased) went somethingeG like "When history looks back at this period of transition and asks why G the VMS renaissance faltered and eventually failed, it won't be the badsG people (the money grabbing, self-serving, incompetent cut-throats) thatnE will be remembered. It will be the good engineers that will be blamede- for their terrible silence and indifference!"   B I have a dream that one day little Solaris children and little VMSB children will be able to hold hands in the street and play happily< together, I HAVE A DREAM TODAY! That one day a MTS SQLServer? transaction can be started on a W2K box and propagated over therD internet to DECdtm on a VMS box! I have been to the mountain top andD looked over, and mine eyes have seen the glory of TIP! Now I may not get there with ya. . .  B Actually I'm about to go on holidays for a couple of months but if? nothing's changed by the time I get back (i.e. VMS 7.3 has beeneE released with RTR bundled and VMS engineering is still working on thedG distributed transaction equivilent of FIMS) then I will start tramplingt out the vintage!  D Come on people, over the last year many have collaborated to presentE VMS with an IKEA flat-pack for TIP. All you have to do is assemble it>" an release it. Now get on with it!  D Do you people not understand that I am not ranting for my own healthF here? I am fully aware that any TIP on VMS victory could, at least forF me, be pyrrhic. You don't make alot of friends on a crusade like this.F But it suffices for the triumph of RTR that good engineers do nothing!    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:32:19 -0600a/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> C Subject: Re: TK70: request for data transer fro TK70 to 4mmDat tapesO Message-ID: <369D65506ADB7A53.34D5A7F985F5264D.B0F142941433EA8D@lp.airnews.net>t   Rainer Burger wrote: > G > We would need to know if anybody still has a TK70 tape drive on a VAXiJ > machine and could read the tape content from this TK70 tape and transfer > it to a 4mm DAT tape.o< > The tape has been written under VMS 5.5-2 (maybe also -3). > 6 > All suggestions are welcome. Offers are appreciated.  D I have the capability to copy TK70 to DAT.  You can probably find it, closer, though.  (I'm in Fort Worth, Texas.)  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------p$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com =   Fax: 817-237-3074=   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:07:34 GMTs* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>; Subject: Re: UAF Quotas - Y'ain't a-gonna believe this'n...A) Message-ID: <8vuieh$a5g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>0  2 In article <3A2274EA.B73D4643@clarityconnect.com>,4   "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote:E > What will happen is that WSQUOTA will be raised up to WSDEF (if thedE > PQL_Ms are lower than these values).  Create an interactive process-  A Actually, just the opposite will happen. WSDEF will be lowered to@ WSQUOTA. (tried on VMS 6.1).  D Also, remember that these set *limits* for memory usage. The workingF set size can well be, and often is, larger than the number of pages inF said working set (See the DCL command procedure WORKSET.COM [a.k.a. asE WORK.COM] in the performance manual), it has separate columns for the C size and the pages in use.). The fact that these two quantities are D different is the reason that there is both BORROWLIM and GROWLIM. IfC free list falls below BORROWLIM, then a process cannot increase itshG working set size (a limit) if it is above WSQUOTA. But it can still add F pages to its working set, up to its current size (limit). That's whereE GROWLIM comes in. If the free list has fewer pages than GROWLIM, then,G processes cannot add any pages to their lists without giving up some ins* return. See Perf. Management Manual 3.5.4.   andoG > then look at it with SHOW WORKING_SET.  Again remember that WS quotaseE > don't give a process memory, they only allow it to use memory if it  > wishes to.   Right.   >e > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >p > > Check this out, folks: > >y > > UAF> SHOW PRODUCTIONF > > Username: PRODUCTION                       Owner:  Production Jobs
 > > [snip]= > > Prclm:          10  DIOlm:       750  WSdef:        10000r= > > Prio:            4  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:         7500h= > > Queprio:         0  TQElm:        10  WSextent:     81920c
 > > [snip] > > E > > Does anyone have any idea what might happen when WSdef > WSquota?r > > < > > I almost can't believe this runs under these conditions!  G Not a problem. WSDEF will be reduced to 7500. Don't forget to check thekG PQL system parameters (which override AUTH values). Experiment with SETa+ WORK which is not overridden by PQL params.    > >lE > > I wonder where the working set limit gets set at process creationtD > > time... I'd think it would go to WSquota and no higher until the processe1 > > starts page faulting, but I could be wrong...>   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  &-)/ w: afeldman@gfigroup.BorisYeltsinCooksCajun.comn5 h: alan48@dellnet.YouCantBelieveEverythingYouRead.comr    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:21:46 -0600o7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>o; Subject: Re: UAF Quotas - Y'ain't a-gonna believe this'n... - Message-ID: <3A2308AA.E125974D@earthlink.net>e   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > 4 > In article <3A2274EA.B73D4643@clarityconnect.com>,6 >   "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote:G > > What will happen is that WSQUOTA will be raised up to WSDEF (if therG > > PQL_Ms are lower than these values).  Create an interactive processs > C > Actually, just the opposite will happen. WSDEF will be lowered to  > WSQUOTA. (tried on VMS 6.1).  H Saw that on V7.1-2 (Alpha, of course), also: WorkingSet Limit was set at2 WSQuota, despite WSDEF being significantly higher.  E We're looking at using the PQL_M param.'s to make life easier in some G respects. I was trying to identify the exceptions to certain rules when/# that example jumped out and bit me.h   Goofy stuff...   --   David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsv http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:37:46 GMTa1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>s; Subject: Re: UAF Quotas - Y'ain't a-gonna believe this'n...e2 Message-ID: <3A231BDB.AFBD34BD@clarityconnect.com>  E Indeed you are correct.  I misremembered my reading of the sources inoC this area.  It's also the same area where it is/was possible to get D multiple processes in the same UIC group with the same process name.   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > 4 > In article <3A2274EA.B73D4643@clarityconnect.com>,6 >   "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote:G > > What will happen is that WSQUOTA will be raised up to WSDEF (if thetG > > PQL_Ms are lower than these values).  Create an interactive processo > C > Actually, just the opposite will happen. WSDEF will be lowered to> > WSQUOTA. (tried on VMS 6.1). > F > Also, remember that these set *limits* for memory usage. The workingH > set size can well be, and often is, larger than the number of pages inH > said working set (See the DCL command procedure WORKSET.COM [a.k.a. asG > WORK.COM] in the performance manual), it has separate columns for thehE > size and the pages in use.). The fact that these two quantities are F > different is the reason that there is both BORROWLIM and GROWLIM. IfE > free list falls below BORROWLIM, then a process cannot increase itseI > working set size (a limit) if it is above WSQUOTA. But it can still add H > pages to its working set, up to its current size (limit). That's whereG > GROWLIM comes in. If the free list has fewer pages than GROWLIM, thendI > processes cannot add any pages to their lists without giving up some int, > return. See Perf. Management Manual 3.5.4. >  > and I > > then look at it with SHOW WORKING_SET.  Again remember that WS quotasuG > > don't give a process memory, they only allow it to use memory if its > > wishes to. >  > Right. >  > >n > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > >> > > > Check this out, folks: > > >a > > > UAF> SHOW PRODUCTIONH > > > Username: PRODUCTION                       Owner:  Production Jobs > > > [snip]? > > > Prclm:          10  DIOlm:       750  WSdef:        10000C? > > > Prio:            4  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:         7500o? > > > Queprio:         0  TQElm:        10  WSextent:     81920e > > > [snip] > > >eG > > > Does anyone have any idea what might happen when WSdef > WSquota?  > > >s> > > > I almost can't believe this runs under these conditions! > I > Not a problem. WSDEF will be reduced to 7500. Don't forget to check theGI > PQL system parameters (which override AUTH values). Experiment with SETe- > WORK which is not overridden by PQL params.e >  > > > G > > > I wonder where the working set limit gets set at process creation>F > > > time... I'd think it would go to WSquota and no higher until the	 > processi3 > > > starts page faulting, but I could be wrong...g >  > -- > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman  &-)1 > w: afeldman@gfigroup.BorisYeltsinCooksCajun.com.7 > h: alan48@dellnet.YouCantBelieveEverythingYouRead.come > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.u   -- tD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 05:30:43 GMT  From: jkim@dpc.com Subject: UCX question ) Message-ID: <3A234338.48E5C467@yahoo.com>y  E I am unfamiliar with VMS and guyshy about manking changes for fear ofyF messing things up beyond recognition.  That said, I need to change the? default gateway on our DEC Alpha system.  Can someone help out?a   TIA  jean   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 06:30:59 GMTo% From: Andrew.Rycroft@intrinsitech.comu* Subject: VAX/VMS DEC Phigs to Alpha Open3D) Message-ID: <8vvjf3$4c6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d   Hi,e  E we are looking at migrating an application using DEC Phigs on VAX/VMSlF to open3D on Alpha. Does anybody know where I can find any information' on what is involved, or have any tips ?t   Thanks Andrew    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:07:10 GMT-L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")$ Subject: VMS Mail futures (question)8 Message-ID: <009F3C14.8F7028FB@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  	 VMSers --   C We use VMS MAIL on VMS 7.2-1, and we have some apparently unfixablel@ problems with using that client when it comes to internet email.  H (We've experimented with both Multinet SMTP and PMDF as mail transports,F with differing unsatisfactory results.  Both are very good at getting H the messages where they're supposed to go; the problem ends up in headerL interpretation at the end, and in neither case is it the transport's fault.)  L The general problem is that the VMS To: and CC: information only get passed I to the mail transport for those addresses that are going off the system.  H The remote user - on an Exchange server in our case - first, doesn't seeC the addressees who were on the VMS server at all (because they weresI delivered via MAIL-11 and weren't seen by the SMTP transport) and second,aG gets all the SMTP addresses in the To: line, losing track of which weretI To:s and which where CC:s.  (I'm told administrative people accept CCs asaA "FYI" and Tos as "action required from you", so this makes a realdH difference to them.)  When they reply-to-all, the original VMS addressesF don't get a copy because they weren't in the headers.  I had thought IH could perhaps finesse this by setting a default transport for all users,I forcing a trip through SMTP even for local mail, but I couldn't get it to > work.  SMTP%username@domain.tld keeps getting interpreted as aB percent-hack; that is, that I want domain.tld to pass this to user@ smtp@username, and asking here nobody could tell me how to forceI interpretation of a default SMTP% transport as SMTP%"username@domain.tld"   J Okay. Virtually unanimous advice has been to change our MAIL users to PMDFN MAIL, which will solve at least part of our problem.  (We have some DECwindowsI Mail users, too; I don't know if they see these problems as well.)  If we G didn't do this, pressure from what's now the majority of Exchange users J would have forced our remaining VMS mail users to go to Exchange as well, K and that would be several hundred cuts in the death-of-a-thousand-cuts thatdD VMS is having as an admininistrative system here, despite it being aI secure, reliable system that doesn't take constant watching. This doesn'ts2 seem like it can be a problem that's unique to us.  @ I hear that in 7.3 MAIL is supposed to have build in mime tools.F My question: Is 7.3 MAIL more internet-aware generally?  Are there anyI solutions for the header problems I describe above in 7.3?  Are there anyeD plans to make MAIL work and play well with Internet mail in the nearE future?  (I recall statements that MAIL was rewritten in C to make it I easier to maintain and extend; I'm hoping we're going to keep extending.)l  I My strong suggestion to VMS Engineering: Please address the issues caused6J by MAIL's lack of internet awareness.  There's only so much the transportsJ can do without cooperation from MAIL itself.  If necessary, please talk toK transport writers -- both in UCX and over at Process Software, who now havei@ TCPware, Multinet, and PMDF SMTP, and also easy access to the MXK maintainers -- and make this work.  It will make it easier for existing VMSa* installations to keep some of their users.   Thanks,    -- Alanh  O ===============================================================================i0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:37:28 -0600 ) From: Mike Drabicky <drabicky#dallas.net>T( Subject: Re: VMS Mail futures (question)8 Message-ID: <2e662tk8ujchnnse66qs52lktv0fg22gle@4ax.com>  @ On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:07:10 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU. ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:  G >don't get a copy because they weren't in the headers.  I had thought IsI >could perhaps finesse this by setting a default transport for all users,sJ >forcing a trip through SMTP even for local mail, but I couldn't get it to? >work.  SMTP%username@domain.tld keeps getting interpreted as aaC >percent-hack; that is, that I want domain.tld to pass this to usereA >smtp@username, and asking here nobody could tell me how to forceaJ >interpretation of a default SMTP% transport as SMTP%"username@domain.tld" >l   Alan,o  F When you specify forwarding such as this, I've found that, at times, I@ have to "play with quotes" to get the blasted thing to work. For example, you might try:d   SMTP%"username@domain" SMTP%""username@domain"" SMTP%"""username@domain"""  E and see if one of those doesn't do it for you. It has something to dorC with the way VMSmail parses the address. I've never cared enough tooF find out since "throwing a few more quotes at it" always seemed to fix the problem.  
 Mike Drabickyt   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:03:30 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")( Subject: Re: VMS Mail futures (question)8 Message-ID: <009F3C2D.3216FC61@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  d In article <2e662tk8ujchnnse66qs52lktv0fg22gle@4ax.com>, Mike Drabicky <drabicky#dallas.net> writes:A >On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:07:10 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU / >("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:g >nH >>don't get a copy because they weren't in the headers.  I had thought IJ >>could perhaps finesse this by setting a default transport for all users,K >>forcing a trip through SMTP even for local mail, but I couldn't get it ton@ >>work.  SMTP%username@domain.tld keeps getting interpreted as aD >>percent-hack; that is, that I want domain.tld to pass this to userB >>smtp@username, and asking here nobody could tell me how to forceK >>interpretation of a default SMTP% transport as SMTP%"username@domain.tld"y >> >  >Alan, >oG >When you specify forwarding such as this, I've found that, at times, I A >have to "play with quotes" to get the blasted thing to work. Fort >example, you might try: >7 >SMTP%"username@domain"t >SMTP%""username@domain""e >SMTP%"""username@domain"""d >iF >and see if one of those doesn't do it for you. It has something to doD >with the way VMSmail parses the address. I've never cared enough toG >find out since "throwing a few more quotes at it" always seemed to fixo
 >the problem.> >n >Mike Drabicky >t  K Not the issue.  Yes, I could put in forwarding for every user on the systemeJ to SMTP%"_thisuser@domain" (which works fine in V7 mail with just the one L pair of quotes; the _ is to prevent forwarding loops", but every To: and Cc:F would still end up on the To: line when read by a non-VMS mail client.  J Trying to force everyone through SMTP with SET TRANSPORT doesn't give you @ an opportunity to play with quotes at all, as far as I can tell.   -- Alanc    O ===============================================================================m0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056uM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================a   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:58:42 -0500 (EST)g From: netbiz.info@usa.com ! Subject: Voted #1 Online Businessb) Message-ID: <"200011282133.NAA13412"@dns>y   Dear Friend,  7 May I have your permission to send you FREE information-C regarding an exciting and very profitable SELF-RUN online business?,  < It is truly the HOTTEST and the EASIEST home business today!6 Voted #1 online business in a major business magazine!8 You can make up to $14,000 per month in your spare time!  E It is NOT a chain letter, NOT an illegal get-rich-quick scam. it is aFB legitimate online business which has been around for over 4 YEARS!  ) This home business is for REAL! No Hype! B  5 Please click below to receive FREE VITAL INFORMATION:l   Mailto:  ljfeeney@usa.comh  1 Write the word "INTERESTED" in the SUBJECT field.S   You will be glad that you did!   Thank you and have a great day!a   With My Warmest Regards, Lyle Feeney.   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 21:30:03 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)& Subject: Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL. Message-ID: <8vujor$g5u$1@info.service.rug.nl>  H In article <009F3BFE.55EE1F3F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG( (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:    > >$  TAB [0,32]= % x09o >          ^^^^i( > It's a single ASCII character... Try:  >  > $ TAB[0,32]==%X09  > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*"e > *o > $ TAB[0,8]==%X09 > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*"O > *       *   E OK, time for me to learn something new.  Why the difference, and why   this behaviour:a   $ tab[0,32]= %x09o $ write sys$output "*"+tab+"*"	 *       *i   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2000 16:56:30 -05002 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg)& Subject: Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL+ Message-ID: <GPUTpzWuDhWy@eisner.decus.org>.  . In article <8vujor$g5u$1@info.service.rug.nl>,, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:2 > In article <009F3BFE.55EE1F3F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, > system@SendSpamHere.ORGh* > (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  >  >> >$  TAB [0,32]= % x09 >>          ^^^^) >> It's a single ASCII character... Try:   >>   >> $ TAB[0,32]==%X09  >> $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*" >> * >> $ TAB[0,8]==%X09   >> $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*" >> *       * > > > OK, time for me to learn something new.  Why the difference, > and why this behaviour:  >  > $ tab[0,32]= %x09   > $ write sys$output "*"+tab+"*" > *       *p   $open/write tf test.dat 
 $write tf tabo	 $close tfl   $dump/rec test.dat2 Dump of file TEST.DAT;1 on 27-NOV-2000 15:46:23.439 File ID (17602,174,0)   End of file block 1 / Allocated 2t  ? Record number 1 (00000001), 4 (0004) bytes, RFA(0001,0000,0000)i  <                             00000009 ................ 000000   $tab[0,32] = %x09t  
 Is really:  
 $nul[0,8] = 0  $tab1[0,8] = 9 $tab = tab1 + nul + nul + nul   M When output to a terminal, the null characters are suppressed unless you have 1 the terminal in a display control character mode.d  H If you put the output in a fixed field width format file, the extra NULL  characters could be significant.   -John " malmberg@eisner.decus.organization   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:49:36 GMT0- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>e& Subject: Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL( Message-ID: <3A22D6F0.FD59AF18@ohio.edu>  J Without doing the experiment myself, I suspect that your terminal was in a# mode that swallowed the null bytes.c                   RDP      Phillip Helbig wrote:n  J > In article <009F3BFE.55EE1F3F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG) > (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:s >a > > >$  TAB [0,32]= % x09v > >          ^^^^c) > > It's a single ASCII character... Try:F > >  > > $ TAB[0,32]==%X09T! > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*"o > > *2 > > $ TAB[0,8]==%X09! > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*"S
 > > *       *W >FF > OK, time for me to learn something new.  Why the difference, and why > this behaviour:e >n > $ tab[0,32]= %x09a  > $ write sys$output "*"+tab+"*" > *       *r   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:36:59 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)a& Subject: Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL0 Message-ID: <009F3C21.1BF9DDC7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <8vujor$g5u$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:rI >In article <009F3BFE.55EE1F3F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG.) >(Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: o >c >> >$  TAB [0,32]= % x09 >>          ^^^^) >> It's a single ASCII character... Try: a >>   >> $ TAB[0,32]==%X09  >> $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*" >> * >> $ TAB[0,8]==%X09   >> $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*" >> *       * > F >OK, time for me to learn something new.  Why the difference, and why  >this behaviour: >l >$ tab[0,32]= %x09 >$ write sys$output "*"+tab+"*" 
 >*       *   But...   $ write sys$output "*"+tab+"*"   is not the same as:r   $ write sys$output "*''tab'*"n   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMd            TO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:07:08 GMTu7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) & Subject: Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL& Message-ID: <G4pHJx.4q5@world.std.com>  ? system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:   P >>>     I need to write out a tab delimited file, I believe I'd need to do it byN >>> writing out an ASCII character 9, however, I can't seem to recall a method >>> to do this in DCL. >> >>$  TAB [0,32]= % x09 >         ^^^^' >It's a single ASCII character... Try: g   >$  TAB [0,8]= % x09  F That's correct.  The TAB [0,32] construct creates a four character (32G bit) string, with trailing NULs.  Since DCL uses NUL-terminated stringstK internally in some cases, you'll see C-like weirdness such as the following ! with the 4-byte "TAB" definition.S   >$ TAB[0,32]==%X09 >$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*" >* >$ DELETEE/SYMBOL/GLOBAL TAB >$ TAB[0,8]==%X09e >$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*"
 >*       *   -Miken   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:48:17 -0500 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>& Subject: Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL* Message-ID: <3A2300D1.7ABBD5B3@oracle.com>  0 I believe that the difference is that the [0,32]4 case results in null (probably 3 of them) characters3 in the string.  A little know aspect of DCL is that 8 it deals with a null byte as an end of string condition.     $ tab1[0,32]=%x09m! $ write sys$output f$length(tab1)  4  $ write sys$output "/t /l# $ write sys$output "/" + tab1 + "\"!	 /       \  $! $ tab[0,8]=%x09   $ write sys$output f$length(tab) 1h $ write sys$output "/   \"	 /       \h $! $ nul[0,8]=0  $ write sys$output f$length(nul) 1i $ write sys$Output "/  / " $ write sys$Output "/" + nul + "\" /\   Phillip Helbig wrote:g > J > In article <009F3BFE.55EE1F3F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG) > (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:r >  > > >$  TAB [0,32]= % x09e > >          ^^^^-) > > It's a single ASCII character... Try:) > >: > > $ TAB[0,32]==%X09s! > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*"@ > > *. > > $ TAB[0,8]==%X09! > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "*''TAB'*".
 > > *       *d > F > OK, time for me to learn something new.  Why the difference, and why > this behaviour:o >  > $ tab[0,32]= %x09i  > $ write sys$output "*"+tab+"*" > *       *s   -- a> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:36:38 -060047 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>g& Subject: Re: Write out char$(9) in DCL- Message-ID: <3A230C26.926707FB@earthlink.net>n   Phillip Helbig wrote:e > C > In article <D2wU5.860$JN1.38225@news1.mts.net>, "Mark-Simon Pope"a > <mpope@bristol.ca> writes: > P > >     I need to write out a tab delimited file, I believe I'd need to do it byN > > writing out an ASCII character 9, however, I can't seem to recall a method > > to do this in DCL. >  > $  TAB [0,32]= % x09 > $  WRITE SYS$OUTPUT TABd   Hhmmm...   DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ tab[0,32]=9 i DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sym tabM   TAB = "...."* DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$cvui( 0, 8, tab ) 9i* DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$cvui( 8, 8, tab ) 0p* DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$cvui(16, 8, tab ) 0t* DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ say f$cvui(24, 8, tab ) 0- DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ -  $ Dunno. [0,8] would do it, I think...   --   David J. DachteraT dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/F  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.s   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Nov 2000 18:54:11 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: You Are So Righta6 Message-ID: <8vuakj$n8c$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  g In article <3A15FF45.ADB959B1@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:d :The Newbie wrote: :> fJ :> I got this file from the VMS freeware site and the file was being seen " :> as a very long record.  Thanks! :nA :Yes - you will find that many such files on that site are indeednF :scrambled. The result of serving up RMS files on a UN*X or NT server.  H   And how were these files downloaded?  (The FAQ covers some of the moreH   common problems, and a tool to unsnarl some of the more common BACKUP H   saveset corruptions -- corruptions that can occur during the FTP file 2   transfer -- is included on the Freeware itself.)  K   If these are problems with the source files on the OpenVMS Freeware, thenpI   if I and/or the author of the Freeware package do not receive specific pJ   reports of specific problems with specific freeware (or the reports are L   only made in passing in threads here in a newsgroup), then the generation K   of a fix or an update or a correction for the problem will be unlikely.        Details, please?  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:15:20 -0600o7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e Subject: Re: You Are So Right - Message-ID: <3A230728.12905AED@earthlink.net>E   Hoff Hoffman wrote:a > i > In article <3A15FF45.ADB959B1@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:h > :The Newbie wrote: > :>K > :> I got this file from the VMS freeware site and the file was being seene$ > :> as a very long record.  Thanks! > :sC > :Yes - you will find that many such files on that site are indeediH > :scrambled. The result of serving up RMS files on a UN*X or NT server. > J >   And how were these files downloaded?  (The FAQ covers some of the moreI >   common problems, and a tool to unsnarl some of the more common BACKUPlI >   saveset corruptions -- corruptions that can occur during the FTP file 4 >   transfer -- is included on the Freeware itself.) > M >   If these are problems with the source files on the OpenVMS Freeware, thenlJ >   if I and/or the author of the Freeware package do not receive specificK >   reports of specific problems with specific freeware (or the reports aresM >   only made in passing in threads here in a newsgroup), then the generationrK >   of a fix or an update or a correction for the problem will be unlikely.C >  >   Details, please?   Try this for openers:s  ' ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/VMS/LD062.TXTr> (Alternate link: http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ld062.txt)   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/S  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:54:45 GMT  From: LBohan@dbc.spam_less..coma2 Subject: Re: [Fwd: RE: Technology of US elections]8 Message-ID: <tr662tseklqqkeomnn1glkcrdvcackvofd@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:10:26 GMT, agreig@my-deja.com (Alan Greig)  wrote:  F >Gore offered to recount the entire State. Bush declined. I realy hopeD >it isn't true that (in Florida) machines in poor Democrat areas areG >older than machines in affluent Republican ones and have a higher rateMG >of missing valid votes. The Democrats don['t seem to have claimed thisoG >publically yet but I have heard it suggested. Can anyone confirm/deny?w  / My understanding, was the counties that showed e; inconsistant results, upon repeated machine recounts, were r< mostly those (all?) using the "Votomatic" balloting systems.  8 this URL lists the systems in use in Florida, by county:  1 http://www.dos.state.fl.us/doe/votemeth/cvs.shtmlq  0 ..  Certified Voting Systems Used in Florida ...                      ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.664 ************************