1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 10 Oct 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 566       Contents: Apache POST problem - Attention: Homeowners & Soon To Be Homeowners ( Copying files from VMS to UNIX platforms Re: DECnet Plus phased out?  Re: DECnet Plus phased out? 4 Re: Determinig remote IP address of a datagram paket# Re: Determining terminal IP address  file attributes for .rtf?  Re: file attributes for .rtf?  Re: file attributes for .rtf? ' Re: Getting Compaq to advertise OpenVMS ' Re: Getting Compaq to advertise OpenVMS 6 Re: Help adding NT server to VMS system / logins, etc. How to delete a shelved file?  layout for an LK471?* RE: Longevity of Oracle Server on OpenVMS?* Re: Longevity of Oracle Server on OpenVMS? Re: Mixing VAX C and DEC C nonfree Freeware Re: nonfree Freeware Re: nonfree Freeware Re: nonfree Freeware Re: nonfree Freeware Re: nonfree Freeware Re: nonfree Freeware RE: OpenVMS in Oil companies Re: OpenVMS Integrated products  Re: OpenVMS Integrated products  Re: OpenVMS Integrated products  Re: OpenVMS Integrated products  Re: OpenVMS Integrated products   Parsing Query_String with Apache$ Re: Parsing Query_String with Apache Re: Problems buying an Alpha?  Re: Rename File Question Re: Rename File Question Re: Rename File Question Re: Rename File Question Re: Rename File Question Re: Rename File Question Re: Rename File Question Renaming a file to [].<ext>  Runaway SPAWN32 (Pathworks)  SNMP_Request! RE: Sun Hardware problems persist ! RE: Sun Hardware problems persist  VAX Console (was Re: VAX8530)  Re: VMS databases for hobbyist? ; Re: Was: Basic freeware CD problems. Now: Command Synonyms.  Re: Welcome to Encompass!  Re: Welcome to Encompass!  Re: Welcome to Encompass!  Re: Welcome to Encompass!  Re: Welcome to Encompass!  Re: Welcome to Encompass!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:21:53 GMT # From: fdasfdas <fdafas@fdasfas.com>  Subject: Apache POST problem+ Message-ID: <39E27D3B.25DCB7D5@fdasfas.com>   * Multinet (latest w/new drivers for Apache) VMS 7.1 
 Apache 1.3-12   H Forms using METHOD=POST results in no query_string , If  method=PUT then the query_string exist.   E has anyone had similar issues using a form with method=POST using DCL  CGI?   Thanks   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:59:45 -0500 (EST)   From: HomeLoans@i99i.fsnet.co.uk6 Subject: Attention: Homeowners & Soon To Be Homeowners7 Message-ID: <200010092218.LBI00296@medusa.emerge.co.nz>    Hit reply to be removed.  ) Homeowners, let the power of the internet 2 work for you.  Fill in our quick loan request form, and you will get competitive mortgage quotes& =66rom 3 of over 150 lenders signed up for our service.   When lenders compete you win.    Cash back refinances No Equity 2nd Trust Deeds  Debt Consolidation No Income Verification$ The most competitive interest rates!    . Lenders are standing by, ready to approve your) loan today!  They will contact you, often 6 minutes after filling in the form or when it's best=20 for you. =20   Visit this site:=20   C http://angelfire.com-ns:homeloans@216.49.97.4/mortgageloans/?SP1008   : (If web site doesn't come right up, please try back later)    
 -Save Time -Save Money  -Save Aggravation   ; There is NEVER any fee to consumers for using this service.     : _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/B Copyright =A9 1999, 2000 eWorld Marketing, Inc. 1-888-418-2575.=20D This is not a solicitation or offer to lend money. eWorld Marketing= =20 D is not a lender, broker or other financial intermediary. We provide= =20 / marketing services to the mortgage industry.=20 : _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:15:30 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>1 Subject: Copying files from VMS to UNIX platforms 7 Message-ID: <200010100015_MC2-B651-BC2C@compuserve.com>   G         There is a VMS implementation of tar.   Try wku.edu for a copy.   J         You can tar the files.  Some of them will probably not be usable = on a Unix machine. F Object files (.obj) and executable files (.exe) will definitely not beF usable.  Indexed sequential files; e.g. MAIL.MAI will not be usable. =  C Binary files, you can get the bits back but they may mean something J different on a different architecture; they may, for instance, have to be=  
 byte swapped. 8 Binary floating point formats are probably incompatible.  F         The only thing that I can say with any certainty will transferJ without problems are text files stored in stream-lf format.  Stream-lf is=  ) not the normal VMS format for text files.     & Message text written by Hitendra Patel@ >One of our users wants to backup his disk and then transfer theG data/directory onto a unix platform. Is it possible to this and how can B this be best achieved. I have tried to ftp the data but due to theH volume to copy this has a load on our network. Is it possible to TAR the files/directory????.   Any help will be appreciated.  <    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:06:17 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> $ Subject: Re: DECnet Plus phased out?' Message-ID: <39E21729.2D13007B@iee.org>    Didier Morandi wrote: G > So, could someone ask COMPAQ why the DECnet training has been retired  > from the GKN catalog?  >   B That would be GKN's decision wouldn't it? I doubt COMPAQ could (or would)2 stop them offering the training if they wanted to.  < You'll have to ask GKN why they no longer make it available.   Antonio    --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:08:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> $ Subject: Re: DECnet Plus phased out?, Message-ID: <39E241C8.D809F292@videotron.ca>   "antonio.carlini" wrote:D > That would be GKN's decision wouldn't it? I doubt COMPAQ could (or > would)4 > stop them offering the training if they wanted to.  K Even if it wasn't Compaq's decision to remove DECnet courses from the GKN's H curriculum, Compaq should still be concerned since in the end, it is VMS customers that suffer.  N In all fairness, it is very likely that the demand for such courses was almostH non-existant which made GKN's decisions quite justified. If Compaq trulyN intends to revive VMS, Compaq must communicate with its partners and tell themE about it so that these partners can also revive their VMS involvment.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:51:05 -0500) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> = Subject: Re: Determinig remote IP address of a datagram paket / Message-ID: <su4ir2ag210p78@corp.supernews.com>   < "Peter Stange" <Peter.Stange#mail.bessy.de> wrote in message" news:39E21027.42217442@bessy.de... > J > is there a way of determinig the remote IP address of a datagram packet,8 > maybe with DCL or perl? (OpenVMS V7.2-1, TCP/IP V5.0A)  ) How did you capture this datagram packet?   K Or are you looking for also a way of sniffing a specific IP datagram packet ) from some unknown network media from DCL?    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:39:48 -0400 G From: "Stephen Eickhoff (remove the - to reply)" <operagost@e-mail.com> , Subject: Re: Determining terminal IP address* Message-ID: <39E26554.51074C52@e-mail.com>  ) Thanks for the helpful answers, everyone!    --  " ----------------------------------          Stephen Eickhoff            Ardmore, PA " ----------------------------------   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 18:04:45 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)" Subject: file attributes for .rtf?. Message-ID: <8rt1bt$fdc$1@info.service.rug.nl>  @ I need to put into WORD a .rtf file someone sent me---not as an H attachment---in the text of a message which a) was x-mime-autoconverted H along the way and hence full of " =" and "=20" at the ends of lines and " b) which I am reading in VMS mail.  E What do I need to do to make it a .rtf file which WORD will be happy  I with again?  In particular, if I EXTRACT it from MAIL (or enter EDT from  I MAIL and write it to disk from there), what is the SET FILE/ATTR command  F I need to let loose on it (after taking care of the line breaks---but  how?).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:32:22 GMT  From: fatz_nyc@my-deja.com& Subject: Re: file attributes for .rtf?) Message-ID: <8rt6g7$fvb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    > what is the SET FILE/ATTR  command G > I need to let loose on it (after taking care of the line breaks---but  > how?). >   G Not sure but this might be worth a stab.  ANA/RMS/FDL the original file , and convert the edited version against that?   Fatz.     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 17:54:14 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: file attributes for .rtf?, Message-ID: <39E23E85.A5CC302C@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > A > I need to put into WORD a .rtf file someone sent me---not as an I > attachment---in the text of a message which a) was x-mime-autoconverted I > along the way and hence full of " =" and "=20" at the ends of lines and $ > b) which I am reading in VMS mail.  N You need to process the file with a mime software to make it into a text file.M This means that the = and =20 (and all other equals) will be replaced. A line 6 which ends with an = means that the line is continued.  M On WPSPLUS, I am able to do global changes of "=<cr>" with "" (nothing) which N means that lines that end with that string get to continue with the next line.K You'd have to write a TPU procedure to do that in TPU because in TPU, there M isn't an end of line character in the buffer so it is hard to tell if an = is  at the end of line or not.  L Alternatively, if you are on a recent version of VMS, just extract the wholeM message to a file, and use the MIME utility ($MC MIME  MIME>OPEN myfile.name  4 MIME>EXTRACT/ATT=x myfile.rtf ) to get the rtf file.  ! RTF itself is a text file format.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:12:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 0 Subject: Re: Getting Compaq to advertise OpenVMS, Message-ID: <39E20A99.1EB21105@videotron.ca>   Hank Vander Waal wrote:  > N > This may be true in larger sites but there are a LOT of small sites that areK > running on small Vaxes (3100 great example) that are using the system for N > accounting and inventory control etc that like the application, it works theN > way they want it to and it so stable they dont remember what the service man1 > looks like that they see no need to upgrade it.   @ This means that any new stuff that is added to that company's ITK infrastructure is added on a different platform. (PCs etc). If that company J continued to build on its VMS systems, it would have needed upgrades since0 5.5-2. Isn't 5.5-2 almost 10 years old already ?  J If Compaq were to convince such customers that VMS is capable of taking onH today's new tasks, then perhaps such clients would see an opportunity toN reconsider their existing "old" VMS systems to add new "today" applications onF it. And in doing so, the customer would again start to buy from Compaq+ (hardware upgrades, software upgrades etc).   N Compaq has a very large number of hibernating VMS customers. If Compaq found aM way to awaken them and show to them that after a 10 year hibernation, VMS has K moved and is still very much alive and kicking, it might get a lot of those . customers interested in BUILDING on VMS again.  K Compaq doesn't get much from customers who are "stable" on VMS. Compaq gets . money from customers who build on VMS systems.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 17:09:13 -0500 * From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)0 Subject: Re: Getting Compaq to advertise OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <2gkXQkPOvpID@eisner.decus.org>    [snip]  ( > o Extended File Cache - no VAX supportH >     This is bogus.  There's no techincal reason this needs to be true. > : > o Lock Manager Performance Enhancements - no VAX supportG >     Triply bogus.  There's no TECHINCAL reason this needs to be true.    [snip]  A If you don't have 64bit addressing, you don't have S2 space, so,  > no XFC or DLM enhancements.  Part of the DLM enhancement might; also be for the requirements of Galatic Shared Memory (i.e. > putting the DLM in shared memory between VMS instances in a GS class machine).   A While I can understand why you'd want VAX support for all the new @ VMS features, you gotta realize that the survival of VMS depends@ on fast Alpha implementations.  To do this I'm sure they have to> exploit all the pluses that the architecture has to offer.  To? limit their work to only what the VAX chip and addressing could  support would be suicide.     = Alphas have been out for over eight years now, I should think = you'd be reasonably happy that Compaq still supports VAXen at ? all.  I can think of better scenarios for the continued support , of VAXen, but I can also imagine MUCH worse.  @ When I suggested porting all the VAX applications we had here to; Alpha, they (the PHMs) said it couldn't be done.  What they @ should have said was they didn't understand it _could_ be done. A (Or maybe I should have figured out that they didn't _want_ it to 7 be done since it would invalidate their reasons for the ? transition to Solaris)   They'd bought into the FUD that it was ? hard, time consuming, impossible, VMS was dead, what have you.  7 As part of the Y2K remediation process I set up a mixed 7 architecture cluster, and showed that the code could be > recompiled from the same source tree with few modifications.    @ I'd be curious to know the TECHNICAL reason why you can't port.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:42:57 GMT : From: brad.mccusker@compaq.remove_this.com (Brad McCusker)? Subject: Re: Help adding NT server to VMS system / logins, etc. 1 Message-ID: <39e22b56.4226620188@news.compaq.com>   ? On Tue, 03 Oct 2000 06:59:57 GMT, msharty@home.com (MJS) wrote:    >Daniel ( and others!!!)   > E >Our client licenses (50+) are  "CC" types.  They will only work with F >V5.0C & 5.0F, and WILL NOT work with V6.0C.  If this is notr correct,C >please let me know becasue decisions are being made based on this. D >We would have to buy updates for all of these licenses to work with >V6.0C >    That is correct.  B >We also were at some time in 1998 sold (20+) additional pathworksE >licenses that are type "CA".  These will work with Pathworks V5.0F & F >V6.0C, but will NOT work with our current version V5.0C.  So it seems5 >we were sold goods that we were never able ti use.    >   E I guess you were, but, it was the only license available at the time. F I guess no one verified if you were running the current version of the6 software when you bought those licenses (you weren't).  D >Compaq sales has directed me to see if V5.0F can be bought from the? >archives becasuie it will support "CC" and "CA" type licenses.   F They've directed _you_ to see if it could be bought?  Seems to me thatC if you are paying for a support contract, the services organization E should be able to get you V5.0F-ECO2, the current version.  I know of D no reason you can't upgrade directly from V5.0C to V5.0F-ECO2.  JustD obtain the V5.0F-ECO2 kit, vmsinstal it, config, and you are on your way...  C (I seem to recall some upgrade issues along the way from 'C' to 'F' B dealing with logical names maybe?  Can't recall for sure, read the release notes! >      > E >Finally, there is a "kit" that willupdate my V1.0A windows/pathworks F >clients to V1.5 that might allow the NT box to attach to the VAX box,E >but the docs seem to say that it will not work with V5.0C pathworks.  >   E Huh?  If you have TCP/IP on the clients, you don't need any PATHWORKS E software on the clients, get rid of it.  And as Daniel said, make all ? licenses server based (you are only connecting to one server, I : assume, so there is no reson to do client based licenses).     >Where do I go from here????  C Resolve the licensing issues, get the current version installed and0C get back on the phone with the CSC to work through the connectivitye9 (the issue of administrator can connect, but user can't).  >e >r   >S   Regards,  
 Brad McCuskert/ OpenVMS Advanced Server Engineering (PATHWORKS)  Compaq Computer Corporatione  3 All comments contained herein are my own and do notr* reflect those of anyone or anything else.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 OCT 2000 20:42:31 GMTo+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>q& Subject: How to delete a shelved file?1 Message-ID: <9OCT00.20423100@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>t  G I'm trying to delete a bunch of files that are marked as being shelved. D (They got that way because of a restore operation using a 3rd-party,D U**x-based backup utility.  No comments please - I didn't choose it.C Besides, it worked okay until our recent upgrade to VMS AXP 7.2-1.)   % Anyway, if I try to delete one I get:c  $    $ dele WLOGBOOK.COM_SHELVED;1/logK    %DELETE-W-FILNOTDEL, error deleting <disk>:[<dir>]WLOGBOOK.COM_SHELVED;1p3    -RMS-E-MKD, ACP could not mark file for deletiono+    -SYSTEM-F-SHELVED, file contents shelved   G (I was able to rename the files.)  HELP/MESSAGE SHELVED says, (in part)e  (   User Action:  Do one of the following:  G                 o Use the DCL command SET PROCESS/AUTO_UNSHELVE to turn *                   automatic unshelving on.  L                 o Use the DCL command UNSHELVE to unshelve the shelved file.  F I don't have an UNSHELVE command (is that part of some layered productI or something?).  And SET PROCESS/AUTO_UNSHELVE appears to be a NOOP sinceB8 I continue to get the same error message after doing it.  # So how do I get rid of these files?c   Thanks,e Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:49:20 -0000d% From: dpm@myths.com (David P. Murphy)A Subject: layout for an LK471? / Message-ID: <su44pgmj0l8u7d@news.supernews.com>e  > So I'm at my new job, wherein I am forced to use Windows NT4.0C and some ridiculous lousy keyboard that is useless to me after more ? years than I can count using the good old LK201 layout.  I surfm= and find LK471 has the good layout and a PS/2 pin at the end,-  but I'm left with two questions:  # 1)  What do I do for the [ALT] key?e  ? 2)  Do the keys have the correct (i.e. Digital) "feel" to them?   ; 3)  Why can't I find technical details and pictures of this.     at compaq's website?  , 4)  Why do I have trouble counting to three?  B Thanks for any input.  And I won't wait breathlessly by my mailbox for respones, Hoff ;-)   ok dpm6 -- 33 David P. Murphy          http://www.myths.com/~dpm/h- systems programmer        ftp://ftp.myths.comaC                          mailto:dpm@myths.com            (personal)iC COGITO ERGO DISCLAMO     mailto:Murphy_DavidP@emc.com        (work)g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:16:04 -0500u+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>s3 Subject: RE: Longevity of Oracle Server on OpenVMS?aJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284862@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   WS -  K As per recent Oracle strategy announcement changes, they are moving towardsrK IAS (Internet Application Server) in a big way. For OpenVMS Customers, this J is good news as it will also be available on the OpenVMS platform as well.  
 Reference:# http://platforms.oracle.com/compaq/ < http://www.oracle.com/corporate/press/index.html?228177.html   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadar Professional Services2 Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com/       -----Original Message-----< From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org [mailto:wspencer@ap.nospam.org]' Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 11:39 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com / Subject: Longevity of Oracle Server on OpenVMS?     	 Hi Folks,2  K I've been searching Oracle's web site, and can't find this info (as usual).t  E Is Oracle Enterprise Server going to be supported on OpenVMS for the  K foreseeable future?  Have there been any de-support notices?  Judging from sL the Galaxy announcement a few months ago, it seems like the Oracle Server / 2 OpenVMS relationship is still going strong.  True?   ws   -- l3 << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:40:50 +0400o4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>3 Subject: Re: Longevity of Oracle Server on OpenVMS?t0 Message-ID: <39E21132.BC1C1561@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi !4 	You can find an information at DECpaq OpenVMS site.  T 	According the a last announce, Oracle installation is 80% VMS based, so Oracle will live forever on the VMS. He-he.a   Warren Spencer wrote:d >  > Hi Folks,e > M > I've been searching Oracle's web site, and can't find this info (as usual). F > Is Oracle Enterprise Server going to be supported on OpenVMS for theL > foreseeable future?  Have there been any de-support notices?  Judging fromM > the Galaxy announcement a few months ago, it seems like the Oracle Server / 4 > OpenVMS relationship is still going strong.  True? >  > ws >  > --5 > << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>g   -- 3 Cheers.D@ +------------------pure personal opinion-----------------------+:     RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com
   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:40:56 -0400O) From: yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.nett# Subject: Re: Mixing VAX C and DEC C'9 Message-ID: <39e257ff$1$lllp186$mr2ice@news.flashcom.com>   3 In <39E18DAF.20174.A2C045E@localhost>, on 10/09/00  $    at 09:19 AM, stan@stanq.com said:  J Personally, I would be getting somebody to buy the source for at least oneH of the libraries you're using...or buying an updated version of the sameB library.  If that VAXC object module you're trying to link with is< compiled prior to the C++ splashdown changing the C compilerI dramatically...it will never run correctly, but may function from time tov time.t   Roland  , >> I assume you mean SYS$SHARE:VAXC2DECC.EXE  G >Right.  It provides routines that mimic the VAX C RTL, but call DEC C  	 >instead.t  M >> Be aware that linking in a shared image that uses VAXCRTL.EXE and one that , >> uses DECC*.EXE shared image may not work.  J >The manual I'm trying to find goes into a lot of detail how to make  thatH >work.  There were multiple examples of ordering the link  statements toG >make it work.  I thought it was in the linker manual,  but the VMS 7.0-- >manuals I have don't make any mention of it.    >> A file number created by aqG >> VAXCRTL routine can not be passed to a DECC*.EXE shared image or the  >> reverse.s  J >Having a VAX C routine free memory allocated by DEC C or vice-versa  will >also fail.m     >--Stan3   >----------2H >Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-16712 >8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147> >Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com     --  ; -----------------------------------------------------------aD yyyc186@flashcom.net              To Respond delete ".illegaltospam"6                             MR/2 Internet Cruiser 2.2a8                             For a Microsoft free univers; -----------------------------------------------------------c   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 19:32:57 GMTC2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: nonfree Freeware-, Message-ID: <8rt6h9$6v8@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  V Can somebody please explain to me why the freeware CDROM costs $25 from the estore??? .                                           ^^^^X   http://www.e-softwarefactory.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=30&CATID=194&ObjectGroup_ID=790  F The real cost for shipping and handling a CD is not more than $3 - $4.H Production costs, even for a small batch of CD's, should be no more than
 two dollars. u  G Anything much beyond that makes the CD a commercial product and clearly = violates the licenses on most of the software on the disk.   d  A Anybody at Compaq care to explain where the extra $20 is going???e   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edut? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:39:54 -0400e+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>o Subject: Re: nonfree Freewarer0 Message-ID: <39E1E6CA.A0A9385@trailing-edge.com>   David Mathog wrote:  > W > Can somebody please explain to me why the freeware CDROM costs $25 from the estore???w0 >                                           ^^^^Z >   http://www.e-softwarefactory.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=30&CATID=194&ObjectGroup_ID=790 > H > The real cost for shipping and handling a CD is not more than $3 - $4.J > Production costs, even for a small batch of CD's, should be no more than > two dollars. > I > Anything much beyond that makes the CD a commercial product and clearly.< > violates the licenses on most of the software on the disk. > C > Anybody at Compaq care to explain where the extra $20 is going???i  E Too bad it isn't available through www.montagar.com anymore - I thinkl" it was just $6 or $7 through them.  ? If you want to see exorbitant prices for freeware, try checking . out CD prices from DECUS sometime.  $100 each!   Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 17:26:36 -0500O9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: Re: nonfree Freeware + Message-ID: <g3SAwCLPGidr@eisner.decus.org>f  a In article <8rt6h9$6v8@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:SX > Can somebody please explain to me why the freeware CDROM costs $25 from the estore??? 0 >                                           ^^^^Z >   http://www.e-softwarefactory.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=30&CATID=194&ObjectGroup_ID=790 > H > The real cost for shipping and handling a CD is not more than $3 - $4.J > Production costs, even for a small batch of CD's, should be no more than > two dollars. p > I > Anything much beyond that makes the CD a commercial product and clearly4? > violates the licenses on most of the software on the disk.      C You underestimate how expensive it can be.  How many do they sell ?a6 How much engineering time goes into compiling the CD ?  B The "free" thing about it is that you are free to make your own CD; with the content they deliver and sell it at a lower price.s  ? How many do _you_ need to sell to justify going to the effort ?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:52:40 +0100n  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: nonfree Freeware)+ Message-ID: <VA.000000fa.0d091111@sture.ch>   @ In article <8rt6h9$6v8@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, David Mathog wrote:4 > From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsh > Subject: nonfree Freewarem > Date: 9 Oct 2000 19:32:57 GMT  > X > Can somebody please explain to me why the freeware CDROM costs $25 from the estore??? 0 >                                           ^^^^Z >   http://www.e-softwarefactory.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=30&CATID=194&ObjectGroup_ID=790 > H > The real cost for shipping and handling a CD is not more than $3 - $4.J > Production costs, even for a small batch of CD's, should be no more than > two dollars. r > I > Anything much beyond that makes the CD a commercial product and clearlyr? > violates the licenses on most of the software on the disk.     > C > Anybody at Compaq care to explain where the extra $20 is going???l > Y It would help if the e-store allowed orders from outside the US too - there's no room on n the address form for country.,   ___r
 Paul Sture Switzerland,   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:17:37 GMT14 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: nonfree Freewares; Message-ID: <5urE5.43447$tn.802892@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>o  ? "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messagec& news:8rt6h9$6v8@gap.cco.caltech.edu...I > Can somebody please explain to me why the freeware CDROM costs $25 from 
 the estore???s  F In addition to the cost of mastering (unknown), duplicating (perhaps aL buck), and mailing (a couple of bucks) the CDROM, there's a resource cost toJ OpenVMS Engineering. Last I heard, the Compaq folks who work on this stuff are compensated for their work.   J I'd like to see a $10 pricetag, but I am not privy to the magnitude of theJ overhead expenses involved in the effort, so what I'd like and what Compaq3 can do from a sound business standpoint may differ.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:18:34 -0500s% From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net>l Subject: Re: nonfree Freewarei' Message-ID: <39E2605A.EB57271B@isd.net>c   David Mathog wrote:n > W > Can somebody please explain to me why the freeware CDROM costs $25 from the estore??? 0 >                                           ^^^^Z >   http://www.e-softwarefactory.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=30&CATID=194&ObjectGroup_ID=790 > H > The real cost for shipping and handling a CD is not more than $3 - $4.J > Production costs, even for a small batch of CD's, should be no more than > two dollars. > I > Anything much beyond that makes the CD a commercial product and clearlyn< > violates the licenses on most of the software on the disk. > C > Anybody at Compaq care to explain where the extra $20 is going???  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduM@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  % Even Linux software can be expensive!   & Redhat 7.0 Basic workstation is $29.95&                  Delux          $79.95&                  Professional  $179.95  % Which catagory does OpenVMS fit into?A   -- l Keith Brown  kbrown780@isd.net9   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:30:20 -07002 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam> Subject: Re: nonfree Freewaret2 Message-ID: <8rtnvq$qkj$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>  = David Mathog <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in message & news:8rt6h9$6v8@gap.cco.caltech.edu...I > Can somebody please explain to me why the freeware CDROM costs $25 frome
 the estore??? 0 >                                           ^^^^ >tL http://www.e-softwarefactory.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=30&CATID=194&ObjectGr
 oup_ID=790 > H > The real cost for shipping and handling a CD is not more than $3 - $4.J > Production costs, even for a small batch of CD's, should be no more than > two dollars. >aI > Anything much beyond that makes the CD a commercial product and clearlyl< > violates the licenses on most of the software on the disk. >rC > Anybody at Compaq care to explain where the extra $20 is going???  > 
 > Regards, >u > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu @ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  E You've obviously never been involved in  the low volume production ofsC CDs.  As someone that has ran and operated a commercial business, ISK think that $25 is relatively close to the true cost of producing, shipping,iD and handling with all the the overhead involved.  Someone has to payH rent on the space, sales taxes, property taxes, employment taxes, labor,A etc.  It adds up.  When my business produced 400 page manuals, weeE sold them at a price of $50 and we probably lost money at that price.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:07:09 -0500-+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>-% Subject: RE: OpenVMS in Oil companiescJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284864@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   FC -  = The following recent testimonial might be of interest to you: 7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/SUNOCO/c  K Also, if interested in oil and gas exploration solutions, then you might be H interested in taking a look at : http://www.genetek.com/ (they use AlphaK OpenVMS based workstations for oil and gas exploration and seismic analysis K to take advantage of the Alpha floating point capabilities and stability of  OpenVMS)  2 You might also be interested in the following url:E http://www.compaq.com/products/software/solutions/basestar/index.htmls   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada  Professional Servicesh Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.comL       -----Original Message-----) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brd, [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br]& Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:57 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come! Subject: OpenVMS in Oil companiesr    B How many  OpenVMS System Managers work in oil companies/industry ?J Do you have ERP ? What plaftorm was choose and how is the situation of the OVMS
 systems now ?o   Regardsa   FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:04:47 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Integrated products, Message-ID: <39E208BB.D705B041@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > Compaq C/C++ > > > For those of us who choose a different programming language,. > it is better not to pay for C to be bundled.  = Consider that VMS no longer has a rich selection of software.0L Consider that VMS' salvation may come from all the "free" software available for Linux/UnixL Consider that much of that free software is delivered to your system as C or C++ source code.  L I beleive that C and C++ should be part of the OS, just as MACRO was part ofM VAX-VMS, at least until VMS regains an image where ISVs port their commercials software to VMS.  M Or perhaps, what Compaq should do is provide an environment where precompiledrH and up-to-date versions of the "basics" (perl, ghostscript, OSU, Apache," kermit, mosaic etc) are available.   > > TCP/IP Servicesh/ > For those of us who choose not to use TCP/IP,i/ > it is better not to pay for it to be bundled..  I I disagree here. While your argument, by itself, has value,  it loses its K value when you compare what the competition offers. In this internet age, aiA computer without a TCP-IP stack is as useless as a falling brick.c   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 18:23:05 GMTu* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Integrated products. Message-ID: <8rt2e9$fdc$3@info.service.rug.nl>  5 In article <39E208BB.D705B041@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeio' <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: M  O > Or perhaps, what Compaq should do is provide an environment where precompiledVJ > and up-to-date versions of the "basics" (perl, ghostscript, OSU, Apache,$ > kermit, mosaic etc) are available.  G It would be enough to have a .COM file which prompts you for a package,1? copies the stuff from the freeware CD, prompts you for a targetdG directory (with a sensible default like DISK$SOFT:[package_name], whereyC DISK$SOFT is not SYS$SYSDEVICE), builds the stuff in that directory H (here, one needs to know the ins and outs of the original build command F files) and so on.  There can be some global prompts at the beginning, G which can be overridden for individual packages, like whether to build  H for VAX, ALPHA or both (with the appropriate commands to compile on the H appropriate machine if necessary), whether to add the help files to the < main help at the top level, in a secondary help library etc.  E I'm thinking about a menu-like thing like on the layered-product CDs.o  3 Not everyone has the same idea what the basics are.   > It would be nice if such third-party packages were completely D standardised, i.e. the directory structure, names of command files, 
 defaults etc.i  E Of course, for things like TeX, the OSU server etc it's not enough tooG compile and link it and set up a foreign command (or use the CLD stuff) H or whatever, as some local configuration needs to be done.  But ideally G each package would have a CONFIGURE.COM as well which would prompt you aE for local stuff, pop you with your favourite editor into files which   need editing etc.-   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 19:15:12 GMTu* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Integrated products3 Message-ID: <8rt5g0$4um$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>]  . In article <8rt2e9$fdc$3@info.service.rug.nl>,- 	helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:h7 > In article <39E208BB.D705B041@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeih) > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: g > P >> Or perhaps, what Compaq should do is provide an environment where precompiledK >> and up-to-date versions of the "basics" (perl, ghostscript, OSU, Apache,s% >> kermit, mosaic etc) are available.l > I > It would be enough to have a .COM file which prompts you for a package,sA > copies the stuff from the freeware CD, prompts you for a targetlI > directory (with a sensible default like DISK$SOFT:[package_name], wheres! > DISK$SOFT is not SYS$SYSDEVICE)a  J In some cases (such as mine) it would have to be the same disk, but that's beside the point.h  & > , builds the stuff in that directoryJ > (here, one needs to know the ins and outs of the original build command H > files) and so on.  There can be some global prompts at the beginning, I > which can be overridden for individual packages, like whether to build XJ > for VAX, ALPHA or both (with the appropriate commands to compile on the J > appropriate machine if necessary), whether to add the help files to the > > main help at the top level, in a secondary help library etc.  I That would be very cool.  Trying to equip my VMS 7.2 box with the stuff I N use quite often under Linux (perl, a webserver, tar, gzip, generic GNU tools)  is a pain.  Having it either:d   	1) easily installable$ 	2) buildable from _ORIGINAL_ source  N would be fabulous...and would take away an excuse as to why I haven't upgraded my old software.  G In some respects, the latter is a better option, mainly because its notcL limited to the 'supported' packages, but probably can cover quite a bit more7 software.  Unfortunatly, it also the harder of the two.e  J While this is probably blasphemy, it would really be nice to have a large , set of the GPL'd software available for VMS.  
 Brian Wheelerr bdwheele@indiana.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:42:43 -0400 0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Integrated productsD Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001009154243.00957090@discovery.fuentez.com>  ' At 02:04 PM 10/9/2000 -0400, you wrote:i >Larry Kilgallen wrote:C >> > Compaq C/C++O >> k? >> For those of us who choose a different programming language,u/ >> it is better not to pay for C to be bundled.o > > >Consider that VMS no longer has a rich selection of software.M >Consider that VMS' salvation may come from all the "free" software availablei >for Linux/Unix M >Consider that much of that free software is delivered to your system as C or  >C++ source code.i >oM >I beleive that C and C++ should be part of the OS, just as MACRO was part ofaN >VAX-VMS, at least until VMS regains an image where ISVs port their commercial >software to VMS.s >oN >Or perhaps, what Compaq should do is provide an environment where precompiledI >and up-to-date versions of the "basics" (perl, ghostscript, OSU, Apache,e# >kermit, mosaic etc) are available.c >e >> > TCP/IP Services0 >> For those of us who choose not to use TCP/IP,0 >> it is better not to pay for it to be bundled. > J >I disagree here. While your argument, by itself, has value,  it loses itsL >value when you compare what the competition offers. In this internet age, aB >computer without a TCP-IP stack is as useless as a falling brick.  I I agree 100% C/C++ is a defacto standard for development and (at the veryII least) SHOULD be bundled with OVMS. In fact I would vote for going with a G similar standard to the gnu utilities and include Fortran also (the g77!G compiler is "standard equipment on Linux). Because of the dearth of new/G applications being developed on and/or ported to OVMS nowadays, I think K bundling the development environment with OVMS can only help OVMS sales andsE encourage those of us who still do develop on OVMS to do more of it. A   just my .02a   Regards,   Jimg8 --------------------------------------------------------7 FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions-u7       from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door. 8 --------------------------------------------------------5 Jim Jennis, Technical Director for Commercial Systemsa Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc. 1 Discovery Place, Suite 2 Martinsburg, WV. 25401 USA,  # Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235- Fax:   +001 (304) 263-0702% Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com r        jhjennis@shentel.netn& WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 16:06:46 -0400g/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) ( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Integrated products* Message-ID: <8rt8gm$cpk$1@lisa.gemair.com>  D In article <3.0.5.32.20001009154243.00957090@discovery.fuentez.com>,2 Jim Jennis  <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com> wrote:( >At 02:04 PM 10/9/2000 -0400, you wrote: >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>> > Compaq C/C++ >>> @ >>> For those of us who choose a different programming language,0 >>> it is better not to pay for C to be bundled. >>? >>Consider that VMS no longer has a rich selection of software.wN >>Consider that VMS' salvation may come from all the "free" software available >>for Linux/UnixN >>Consider that much of that free software is delivered to your system as C or >>C++ source code. >>N >>I beleive that C and C++ should be part of the OS, just as MACRO was part ofO >>VAX-VMS, at least until VMS regains an image where ISVs port their commerciala >>software to VMS. >>O >>Or perhaps, what Compaq should do is provide an environment where precompilednJ >>and up-to-date versions of the "basics" (perl, ghostscript, OSU, Apache,$ >>kermit, mosaic etc) are available. >> >>> > TCP/IP Services(1 >>> For those of us who choose not to use TCP/IP,i1 >>> it is better not to pay for it to be bundled.s >>K >>I disagree here. While your argument, by itself, has value,  it loses itswM >>value when you compare what the competition offers. In this internet age, a C >>computer without a TCP-IP stack is as useless as a falling brick.  >dJ >I agree 100% C/C++ is a defacto standard for development and (at the veryJ >least) SHOULD be bundled with OVMS. In fact I would vote for going with aH >similar standard to the gnu utilities and include Fortran also (the g77H >compiler is "standard equipment on Linux). Because of the dearth of newH >applications being developed on and/or ported to OVMS nowadays, I thinkL >bundling the development environment with OVMS can only help OVMS sales andF >encourage those of us who still do develop on OVMS to do more of it.  >t  ? I guess I can agree that Compaq should be pulling out the stops > to foster OpenVMS development.  However, I've admin'd a lot of= systems that were quite useful, thank you very much, without 0? TCP/IP, particularly in process control environments.  In fact,h< in some environments not having TCP/IP, at all, is seen as a> big security plus.  It's a good thing that OpenVMS has a fully< functional networking protocol that is, in fact, MORE secure than TCP/IP available.  > Similarly, I've admin'd a lot of systems where compilers would just be taking up disk space.   @ Having said this, I would _like_ it if every new OpenVMS system 3 would be _licensed_ for these things, just in case.o  ; I do wonder at the business case for all these giveaways byc9 Compaq.  People like Andrew Harrison would just spin thisr? as desparation on the part of Compaq and I have my doubts that h  it would sell many more systems.   >just my .02 >e	 >Regards,n >s >Jim9 >--------------------------------------------------------t8 >FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions-8 >      from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door.9 >--------------------------------------------------------_6 >Jim Jennis, Technical Director for Commercial Systems >Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc.2 >1 Discovery Place, Suite 2  >Martinsburg, WV. 25401d >USA >>$ >Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235 >Fax:   +001 (304) 263-07022& >Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com  >       jhjennis@shentel.net' >WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/@ >.   -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.coml   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 03:04:02 GMTd, From: alphaman-nix-spam@hsv.sungardtrust.com) Subject: Parsing Query_String with Apacheo) Message-ID: <8ru0uv$5r4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e   Hi,o  G I've been working with the Apache web server on OpenVMS for a few days,fD and have gotten to the point where I'm starting to do some CGI code.F So far so good.  But I need to take the user input and convert it fromE the Query_String to the respective form fields.  Is there a module oriA some other method that already exists to do this function for me?a  ; Straight DCL, btw -- no sissy illegible Perl on my box! 8^)7  E If there's not, I've already started crafting a parsing routine that,7F albeit quite rudimentary, works well enough to allow me to continue myD experiments.  If need be, I can improve on it to be complete, but ifD so, I'll need a source for the complete Query_String spec, so that ID can ensure that everything is parsed correctly (e.g., converting hexF encoded characters like %20, legal characters, illegal characters, andF any other specifics that might not be readily apparent.)  Any pointers there would be appreciated!i   Thanks,o Aaron  --" "OpenVMS: The OS MS wanted NT 2B."    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:56:26 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h- Subject: Re: Parsing Query_String with Apache , Message-ID: <39E29368.E9CF994F@videotron.ca>  - alphaman-nix-spam@hsv.sungardtrust.com wrote:tI >> So far so good.  But I need to take the user input and convert it from G > the Query_String to the respective form fields.  Is there a module ornC > some other method that already exists to do this function for me?-  ? On the real VMS web server (OSU), there is a module that parsesrJ www-url-encoded POST data and sets DCL symbols with the values (as well as@ setting a DCL symbol which contains the list of fields supplied)  L It would be possible in DCL, but very tedious. www-url-encoded data needs toJ be parsed not only to separate field names, field values, but also convert9 special characters from numeric value to their character.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:03:53 +0100I+ From: Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk>s& Subject: Re: Problems buying an Alpha?8 Message-ID: <is14usoot22v0kdtoecp1ivfiksh970j5v@4ax.com>  / On Sat, 07 Oct 2000 16:42:05 +0200, Arne Vajhj. <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:   K >> That must make things awfully snug inside the case - as there are only 3 N >> drive slots in a DS10.  Hopefully some of these were ordered configured forJ >> external use or did you really want 3 spare drives for each system ;-). >.G >I think many sites order a DS10 with no internal disks and an externall* >storage cabinet with the necesarry disks. > E Sorry, should have made that clearer....Arne is correct, we ordered atB StorageWorks pedestal housing a single BA350-type shelf to fix theD disks into - one per system. One 9GB internal plus the others in theE external box. Offers more scope for future redeployment of the drives  if required.   Ray. e   ------------------------------  , Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:18:09 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>! Subject: Re: Rename File Question-J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010092015190.30321-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  + On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, Richard L. Dyson wrote:i  : +I have a simple question that I hope has a simple answer!  )  Hm... The question was here much time :)   F +How would I rename a file (OpenVMS 6.2 & v7.x) from "filename.ext" toI +".ext".  That is, with no filename part, just a leading dot (.) and somed' +extension.  (Like a Unix hidden file).t + G +VMS always wants to slip in a "default" of the old filename when I usea +COPY and RENAME.k  B  For COPY, *if* the format of file is not a problem the resolution	 was like:t' $ COPY NLA0:.,the_file.ext/CONCANT .exts  C  For RENAME it is harder - and I must break message in the moment !   	 +Regards,w +Ricka    Regards - Gotfryd   -- iE ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME.. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================-   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 18:13:35 GMTn* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)! Subject: Re: Rename File Question . Message-ID: <8rt1sf$fdc$2@info.service.rug.nl>  < In article <39E1BB5C.46B8CCE9@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes: o  ; > I have a simple question that I hope has a simple answer!o > G > How would I rename a file (OpenVMS 6.2 & v7.x) from "filename.ext" tolJ > ".ext".  That is, with no filename part, just a leading dot (.) and some( > extension.  (Like a Unix hidden file). > H > VMS always wants to slip in a "default" of the old filename when I use > COPY and RENAME.  H This bit of arcana must be up there with EDIT/TECO to fix problems with  line delimiters in a text file:t  ! MAIL> extr/nohea sys$scratch:.extt4 %MAIL-I-CREATED, DISK$SCRATCH:[HELBIG].EXT;1 created  I > I can create such a file, but I want to rename a collection of files torD > "hidden" filenames without having to re-create them one at a time.  H You can make a script to list the files, mail them to yourself, go into F mail, extract them (write a .com file which fires up mail and execute # that from the other .com file) etc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:25:19 -0400S+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>.! Subject: Re: Rename File Questions. Message-ID: <39E1D54F.38ACE@trailing-edge.com>   Richard L. Dyson wrote:  > ; > I have a simple question that I hope has a simple answer!h > G > How would I rename a file (OpenVMS 6.2 & v7.x) from "filename.ext" to J > ".ext".  That is, with no filename part, just a leading dot (.) and some( > extension.  (Like a Unix hidden file). > H > VMS always wants to slip in a "default" of the old filename when I use > COPY and RENAME. > I > I can create such a file, but I want to rename a collection of files to D > "hidden" filenames without having to re-create them one at a time.  A Good question.  Even LIB$RENAME will preserve the part before thesB dot.  (Not surprising, HELP LIB LIB$RENAME Arguments tells me that? the functionality is the same as the DCL RENAME command!  Doh!)a  B Let me know any good answers you get (i.e. ones that don't involveE creating any new files.)  Right now I have a little command procedureo3 that actually uses EDT to create a new output file.f  @ This question *has* come up here in the past, and I don't recall any satisfying answers.    Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:47:53 -0400 + From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>e! Subject: Re: Rename File Question 1 Message-ID: <39E1DA99.692BF0FC@trailing-edge.com>k   Phillip Helbig wrote: K > > I can create such a file, but I want to rename a collection of files toiF > > "hidden" filenames without having to re-create them one at a time. > I > You can make a script to list the files, mail them to yourself, go intomG > mail, extract them (write a .com file which fires up mail and executes% > that from the other .com file) etc.u  C You don't have to mail them to yourself!  EDT will do the job quite @ nicely for a certain subset of files, and it's what I often use:   $ edit login.com/edt,     1       $!run sys$sysdevice:[tools]login *write .cccp DISK$USER:[SHOPPA].CCC;1 1 linei  : But both your "mail file to self" and my "use EDT" methods) fail to meet two of Dr. Dyson's criteria:l  : 1.  It creates a new file, something he didn't want to do.  F 2.  It fails horribly for files that EDT cannot handle.  For instance,= even a "vanilla" fixed-length 512-byte-per-record file cannot-6 go through this procedure without catastrophic damage.  @ As I noted in my other reply, LIB$RENAME handles the part before+ the filename dot just like DCL RENAME does.a  ? I thought about suggesting COPY/FTP, but it won't let you FTP as> file back to the same machine!  It will let you move a file toB a remote machine, however, and it doesn't default the name part ofB the filespec.  If the remote machine is a different machine on theE same cluster, this may be a workaround (although ugly, and it *still*e creates a new file!)  A Side note to VMS developers: COPY/FTP on my machine (VMS 7.2 withn; Multinet) fails with a "non-standard" failure message, even 8 though $STATUS does indicate a specific kind of failure:  % $ copy/ftp login.com enterprise:.blahu% Cannot use COPY/FTP for local copies.s% $ write sys$output f$message($status) + %RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax error    Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 19:21:33 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)! Subject: Re: Rename File Questionn, Message-ID: <8rt5rt$5r1@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  [ In article <39E1BB5C.46B8CCE9@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes: : >I have a simple question that I hope has a simple answer! >aF >How would I rename a file (OpenVMS 6.2 & v7.x) from "filename.ext" toI >".ext".  That is, with no filename part, just a leading dot (.) and somel' >extension.  (Like a Unix hidden file).. >rG >VMS always wants to slip in a "default" of the old filename when I useu >COPY and RENAME.r >aH >I can create such a file, but I want to rename a collection of files toC >"hidden" filenames without having to re-create them one at a time.u  A Yeah, that one is a pain.  The answer given by the VMS wizard is:d  E   You are encountering the default file name processing logic presentaH   within OpenVMS -- portions of the full file specification that are notJ   explicitly specified are inherited from previous specifications wheneverI   this is possible.  While usually beneficial, this inheritence makes the ?   creation of files with null fields somewhat more problematic.   hG   The usual approach to achieve this end is the use of the foreign-name0   specification syntax:    0     $ COPY LOGIN.COM 0"user password"::".FOOBAR"  OG   This transfers LOGIN.COM back to the local node via DECnet (0::), and@!   assigns the filename ".FOOBAR".P  = It doesn't say so - but this requires that DECNET be working.m    / Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edug? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:50:21 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ! Subject: Re: Rename File Question ' Message-ID: <8rtb3q$40$1@pyrite.mv.net>t  E I wouldn't bet a dime on my close-to-20-year-old recollection of suchiK things, but it's possible that you could write a DCL procedure to parse theaH returned filename, mung it into the *fully*-qualified name you want, andD give that to Rename as a quoted string to inhibit any substitutions.  * Or not:  as I said, it's been a long time.   - bill  8 Richard L. Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message# news:39E1BB5C.46B8CCE9@uiowa.edu...l; > I have a simple question that I hope has a simple answer!s >oG > How would I rename a file (OpenVMS 6.2 & v7.x) from "filename.ext" toIJ > ".ext".  That is, with no filename part, just a leading dot (.) and some( > extension.  (Like a Unix hidden file). >fH > VMS always wants to slip in a "default" of the old filename when I use > COPY and RENAME. > I > I can create such a file, but I want to rename a collection of files toID > "hidden" filenames without having to re-create them one at a time. > 
 > Regards, > Rick > --J > Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduJ >  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/J > | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879J > | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17538 > | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy/ >  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:06:01 -0400y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o! Subject: Re: Rename File Question-, Message-ID: <39E24147.9CB6B511@videotron.ca>   re: renaming MYFILE.TXT to .TXTC  5 $COPY MYFILE.TXT NODE"user pass"::"dev:[dir.dir].TXT"c  J The fact that the actual file name after the node specification is betweenC quotes makes it a "foreign" file (don't know if this is the corercteM terminology) which means that VMS at the originating node does nothing trying/ to understand/parse that file. -  K This mechanism is used when communicating with foreign systems (IBM MVS andeL UNIX boxes) that have DECnet software on them and allows you to speficy file5 names in their syntax without VMS trying to parse it.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:09:33 GMTm From: fatz_nyc@my-deja.com$ Subject: Renaming a file to [].<ext>) Message-ID: <8rt557$eqs$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  C > Good question.  Even LIB$RENAME will preserve the part before theeD > dot.  (Not surprising, HELP LIB LIB$RENAME Arguments tells me thatA > the functionality is the same as the DCL RENAME command!  Doh!)n   SYS$RENAME doesn't - try this.   /*) **  $ mc []ren <original file> <new file>  */   #include <starlet.h> #include <ssdef.h> #include <rms.h> #include <string.h>  #include <stdlib.h>d   main(int argc, char **argv)j {    int stat;p   struct FAB fab1, fab2;  "   if (argc < 3) exit(SS$_INSFARG);     fab1 = fab2 = cc$rms_fab;t     fab1.fab$l_fna = argv[1]; #   fab1.fab$b_fns = strlen(argv[1]);n     fab2.fab$l_fna = argv[2];>#   fab2.fab$b_fns = strlen(argv[2]);s  %   stat = sys$rename(&fab1,0,0,&fab2);m   if (!(stat & 1)) exit(stat);   }>     /* ** Fatze */    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:48:54 GMTu& From: "Lee Gillie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com>$ Subject: Runaway SPAWN32 (Pathworks): Message-ID: <GipE5.1090$Ok4.50003@sea-read.news.verio.net>  B Since upgrading to a dual processor CPU I've had trouble from timeD to time with a runaway condition.  The Windows NT task manager showsB "SPAWN32.EXE" and "system" are each using about 50% of the CPU.  I@ checked and SPAWN32.EXE is a component of Pathworks, and my fileC version is 1.0.0.2.  Seems to happen when using Windows Script Host B which is doing SQL data transfers, and probably should not even be* utilizing SPAWN32 from what little I know.  E Can't find a condition like this described in any patch cover letter.t  @ Anyone seen or heard of anything like this, or have suggestions? --F ______________________________________________________________________F Lee Gillie, CCP                                Remove NOSPAM to E-MailF Online Data Processing, Inc. - 3501 N. Haven -  Spokane, WA 99207-8500   ------------------------------  / Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:22:05 +0200 (MET_DST) , From: system@physik.uni-bonn.de (Peter Kobe) Subject: SNMP_Requesta/ Message-ID: <00101007220528@physik.uni-bonn.de>n  0 I know from my LINUX-SYSTEM (snmpget (ucd)) that2 the OID .1.3.6.1.2.1.17.4.3.1.2.0.80.186.175.49.48A - 0.80.186.175.49.48 is the MAC-address of the equested station -lE gives me the Portnumber my workstation is connected to on the switch.n (BAYSTACK 450)1 Using this Information on the VMS-System using a e $ snmp_query .. get ...P results in an error.  L Invalid variable name OID syntax: .1.3.6.1.2.1.17.4.3.1.2.0.80.186.175.49.48 Invalid variable lists  9 What have I to do to make VMS give me the wanted answer ?J   Peter-  N  =============================================================================7  Peter Kobe   Physikalisches Institut der Universitaet F< 	      Nussallee 12 ; D 53115 Bonn                          ?               Tel: (49) (0)228 73 3222	Fax: (49) (0)228 73 3220o)  	      E-Mail: system@physik.uni-bonn.de,N  =============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:58:16 -0400i+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>e* Subject: RE: Sun Hardware problems persistJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284874@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Andrew,-  I Hey, good to see you haven't given up yet .. Always nice for the smile ofr+ the day when reading some of your posts :-)h  L >>> Is eTrade such a different story, there is no concrete information aboutJ what actually caused eTrades outage, Kerry waves his hands and says it wasI only a configuration issue. Without answering the question as to who madenH the configuration error and why did the error hang the cluster when most: people thought that this sort of thing could not happen.>>  J It was a HW config issue. That is the simple truth. Was it serious in that+ it impacted their production ? Absolutely. t  / Was the issue identified and fixed? Absolutely.   L Did Compaq require NDA's to prevent disclosure to the press? Absolutely not.    H Anyway, that issue happened in Feb 99 and the problem has not come back.) Here is a recent testimonial from eTrade:r7 http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/quotes/etrade.htmla  3 Any chance of eBay being a testimonial for Sun HW ?s   sorry, could not resist it ..)   :-)   I Remember what I have been saying - no vendor on any platform can say theynD have never had HW/SW problems - and this includes the fault tolerant
 platforms.  H The issue is how often do they occur, what type of support does the hostK vendor provide and how quickly can the Customer get back to normal businessrF processing. If the vendor has an Engineering problem, then it is theirK responsibility to first identify it to ALL of their Customers that might benB impacted, then, if the final fix might take awhile, come up with aF workaround (like lowering temp's in computer rooms), but eventually toG actually FIX the problem so that the workaround is no longer required. t  J As identified in the following url, it appears the final memory fix is notB yet available, but that is ok as long as a fix "is in the works". I <http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/00/08/25/000825hnsunmemory.xml>a  D However, please do not try and continue your assertion that lowering9 temperatures in computer rooms is actually the final fix.y   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadac Professional Servicese Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.como       -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]P+ Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:03 AMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist     jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:32:41 +0100, andrew harrisons# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:e > G > >Sorry Kerry you havn't answered the question. You seem happy to quizeC > >me on ebays issues but when I raise etrade suddenly you clam up.e > >  > >So answer the question. > D > Oh wow!  What an incredibly ironic comment from Andrew, the artfulB > dodger.  How many times have others requested the same from you, > without result?i > 6 The eBay outage was caused by an unapplied patch to a 8 third party product. You can quiz me as much as you like6 about the product in question and I cannot answer your4 questions, nor can I tell you why the patch was not 7 applied. This is because the 3rd party app supplier and-< eBay would prefer it if Sun did not publish the information.  = That being said the only place where I have seen any dispute := about the fact that it was an unapplied patch to a 3rd party 04 product that caused the outage is on this newsgroup.  7 Is eTrade such a different story, there is no concrete h= information about what actually caused eTrades outage, Kerry m; waves his hands and says it was only a configuration issue.x@ Without answering the question as to who made the configuration > error and why did the error hang the cluster when most people 1 thought that this sort of thing could not happen.e  = In other words the kind of FUD storm raised on this newsgroupr? over eBay had exactly the same factual basis as the allegationsa over eTrade.  < The only difference is that Compaq has not been exhonerated = given that eTrades outage was apparently caused by a hardwarec= configuration change which had almost certainly to have been == made by a Compaq engineer, the "configuration mistake" seems E; to have been Compaqs mistake and not eTrades or any of the S: applications providers. In addition there is the question < of why a configuration change could have hung the supposedly9 un-hangable cluster. Now personally I never thought that  9 OpenVMS clusters were un-hangable but there are plenty ofi5 OpenVMS boosters who would like people to think this.t  : And some posts have been made suggesting that for example = eBays follow on commitment to Sun hardware has been based on :6 Sun giving them the hardware for free. Of course these> throwers of stones in glass houses have conveniently forgotten6 that eTrade has also invested in more OpenVMS systems ; and perhaps the only way Compaq got them to do this was to L9 give them the kit :):):). Exactly the same factual basis   as the eBay FUD good isn't it.   > What a maroon! >   / Really anyone outside this group following thisE1 thread would I think have detected the tiny weenya4 double standard being excercised by OpenVMS boosters on this group.  1 Its OK to FUD Sun and anyone else with no factuals2 basis to the FUD and its even OK to get found out   when the FUD proves to be wrong.  3 But its totally out of order for someone or attack a/ OpenVMS on the same basis even if the there is e2 no information that currently refutes this attack.  . Are you in marketing at Compaq, perhaps an ex , Digital marketeer it only the impression you" give from this posting !! :):):):)   Regards0 Andrew Harrisonp Enterprise IT Architectc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:16:05 -0400i+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> * Subject: RE: Sun Hardware problems persistJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284875@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Andrew,x  I >>> In addition there is the question of why a configuration change could 1 have hung the supposedly un-hangable cluster.<<<    > When did anyone ever say OpenVMS clusters were "un-hangable"?   F If a specific HW/SW change results in the cluster not operating in theA co-ordinated fashion as it was designed, rather than risking datanJ corruption, then one option is to hang until someone manually intervenes.   D Nothing new here. I suspect most Customers (including those on otherJ platforms) would agree that data integrity is paramount. In the event of aG HW or SW failure, they would prefer a hung system rather than deal withn corrupted data.i   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadar Professional ServicesE Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com        -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]-+ Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:03 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist     jlsue wrote: > 5 > On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:32:41 +0100, andrew harrisonw# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  > G > >Sorry Kerry you havn't answered the question. You seem happy to quiztC > >me on ebays issues but when I raise etrade suddenly you clam up.  > >s > >So answer the question. > D > Oh wow!  What an incredibly ironic comment from Andrew, the artfulB > dodger.  How many times have others requested the same from you, > without result?  > 6 The eBay outage was caused by an unapplied patch to a 8 third party product. You can quiz me as much as you like6 about the product in question and I cannot answer your4 questions, nor can I tell you why the patch was not 7 applied. This is because the 3rd party app supplier ands< eBay would prefer it if Sun did not publish the information.  = That being said the only place where I have seen any dispute i= about the fact that it was an unapplied patch to a 3rd party a4 product that caused the outage is on this newsgroup.  7 Is eTrade such a different story, there is no concrete s= information about what actually caused eTrades outage, Kerry  ; waves his hands and says it was only a configuration issue.u@ Without answering the question as to who made the configuration > error and why did the error hang the cluster when most people 1 thought that this sort of thing could not happen.f  = In other words the kind of FUD storm raised on this newsgroupt? over eBay had exactly the same factual basis as the allegations  over eTrade.  < The only difference is that Compaq has not been exhonerated = given that eTrades outage was apparently caused by a hardwarea= configuration change which had almost certainly to have been i= made by a Compaq engineer, the "configuration mistake" seems t; to have been Compaqs mistake and not eTrades or any of the e: applications providers. In addition there is the question < of why a configuration change could have hung the supposedly9 un-hangable cluster. Now personally I never thought that o9 OpenVMS clusters were un-hangable but there are plenty of$5 OpenVMS boosters who would like people to think this.E  : And some posts have been made suggesting that for example = eBays follow on commitment to Sun hardware has been based on  6 Sun giving them the hardware for free. Of course these> throwers of stones in glass houses have conveniently forgotten6 that eTrade has also invested in more OpenVMS systems ; and perhaps the only way Compaq got them to do this was to "9 give them the kit :):):). Exactly the same factual basis I as the eBay FUD good isn't it.   > What a maroon! >   / Really anyone outside this group following thist1 thread would I think have detected the tiny weenyi4 double standard being excercised by OpenVMS boosters on this group.  1 Its OK to FUD Sun and anyone else with no factuala2 basis to the FUD and its even OK to get found out   when the FUD proves to be wrong.  3 But its totally out of order for someone or attack  / OpenVMS on the same basis even if the there is f2 no information that currently refutes this attack.  . Are you in marketing at Compaq, perhaps an ex , Digital marketeer it only the impression you" give from this posting !! :):):):)   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecta   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:56:05 GMT / From: "Andrew C. Stoffel" <acs@cyberportal.net>F& Subject: VAX Console (was Re: VAX8530)D Message-ID: <acs-B27E61.18573709102000@premium.news.fcgnetworks.net>  < In article <8rcqt4$r50$1@goliat.eik.bme.hu>, FAZEKAS Mihaly " <michael@goliat.eik.bme.hu> wrote:  % > One of my new machine is a VAX8530.,  H > Must have a "VAX Console", wich is a microcompter-like box (look about- > DECMate), and used for console for VAX8530.3  F Well... actually.... while it looks like a DECmate II.... a DECmate II9 is 7" x 19" x 14" while a VAX Console is 7" x 23" x 14.5"cD (sizes approximate due to the dim light in the corner of my basement,  I have a couple of these stored away in...)  C A VAX Console is really A DEC Pro. Mine happens to be a DEC Pro 380 7 which I hope to do more with someday than take up spacei? in my basement. As far as the console card & cable..... I can'tB: seem to find it anywhere (I removed it a long time ago...)   -Andy-   -- l@ ----------------------------------------------------------------@ Andy Stoffel                              acs@sPaMsPuDcampus.com@ It's difficult to see when peering over the shoulders of giants.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:44:34 GMTm2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>( Subject: Re: VMS databases for hobbyist?5 Message-ID: <6wuE5.334$_7.142672@typhoon.aracnet.com>   * yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.net wrote:= > In <9EPD5.597$iY1.12813@sodalite.nbnet.nb.ca>, on 10/08/00  8 >    at 12:24 AM, "Marco Shaw" <marco@nbnet.nb.ca> said:  I >>Are any commercial databases available for VMS hobbyist (at no charge)?s   >>Marco   I > No, but if you scrounge around in the FTP sites you can find source forwK > freeware databases.  Ingres used to release really old versions of itself&I > for free on other platforms.  Perhaps an old version of VMS Ingres (are-' > there any others?) will be out there.0  I To the best of my knowledge you're not going to find any free versions ofRJ Ingres for VMS.  I'm always on the lookout for a database that can be used0 by Hobbyists, and so far haven't found anything.  9 One possibility that I just remembered is Interbase, see:cI http://www.interbase.com/  It's now opensource using the Mozilla license,fI and old versions ran on OpenVMS.  I just snagged the source and am in thetI process of unpacking it.  I'm wondering if there is anything dealing withh OpenVMS in there....  K Well, there is mention of VMS in there, but I'm guessing it's going to takesA someone better with programming than me to make anything of this.    			Zanee   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2000 00:27 CST-' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)9D Subject: Re: Was: Basic freeware CD problems. Now: Command Synonyms.- Message-ID: <10OCT200000270997@gerg.tamu.edu>o   paul@sture.ch writes...LR }On the subject of HELP, I'm currently reading the V7.3 Release Notes (** not yet T }finalised) and note that the callable utility routines for backup, mail, et al are  }now included in the help. } P }Not a bad idea, but I must protest at the way they have been implemented. HELP Q }BACKUP is to become HELP BACKUP_Command, apparently, with at least the MAIL and t- }CONVERT command help falling victim as well.  } E }Not nice! On most systems at work, I can get backup help by a simple  } 	 }   $ H B  } 2 }My hobbyist system is a little more verbose with: }  }   $ H BAC( } + }because I've got BASIC and BLISS on there.2 }  }But from 7.3 I will need: }  }   $ H BACKUP_C } V }See why I don't like it? I would have thought a more logical place to put these help 2 }routines is at the same level as System_Services. } V }** I realise that these Release Notes are just provisional at this stage, and may or < }may not be an accurate representation of the final release. }___ }Paul Sture$ }Switzerland }   L I agree. They should put the system utility routines into a System_UtilitiesH topic (or Callable_Utilities, or Callable_Routines, or some such thing),D just like the System_Services topic has the system service routines.  K Or, at the very least, the actual commands should take preceidencd over the1J utility routines - using BACKUP from the command line is likely to be doneO an order of magnitude (or several) more often than using the callable routines.tM It should be set up so you'd get the backup command help from HELP BACKUP (ortJ shorter abbreviations) and the utility routines from HELP BACKUP_ROUTINES, or something along those lines._  > I would hate to have to modify supplied-with-the-OS help info.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2000 17:04:31 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)-" Subject: Re: Welcome to Encompass!+ Message-ID: <YGZXdxf9ay1M@eisner.decus.org>.  q In article <39DE8290.2F49CC3@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>, Clemens Wermelskirchen <wermelsk@SLAC.Stanford.EDU> writes:L  G > There has been some discussion in the Encompass Open Board meeting on1& > Tuesday during the CETS event in LA. > R > It seems that the new name, i.e. the by-laws that define it, have not officiallyH > been sanctioned by the members in the US yet. This vote is supposed to > happen soon (in October)..  < You narrative indicates some disinformation was presented atD the "Open Board Meeting".  It is not just that the by-laws "have notF officially been sanctioned by the members in the US yet".  The changes@ in fact were REJECTED by the members in the US, but the Board ofC Directors found a loophole to proceed anyway with what they wanted.i  @ But in using the "emergency" loophole they are required to bring. the matter to the US members for ratification.  + I urge all US members to REJECT this again.i  I Certainly those who approved the inclusion of the loophole did not intend=3 "we lost when the members voted" as an "emergency".    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:23:47 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Welcome to Encompass!; Message-ID: <TzrE5.43450$tn.805252@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>g  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message% news:YGZXdxf9ay1M@eisner.decus.org...h? > In article <39DE8290.2F49CC3@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>, Clemensf3 Wermelskirchen <wermelsk@SLAC.Stanford.EDU> writes:K >yI > > There has been some discussion in the Encompass Open Board meeting onr( > > Tuesday during the CETS event in LA. > >tI > > It seems that the new name, i.e. the by-laws that define it, have nott
 officiallyJ > > been sanctioned by the members in the US yet. This vote is supposed to > > happen soon (in October).t >t> > You narrative indicates some disinformation was presented atF > the "Open Board Meeting".  It is not just that the by-laws "have notH > officially been sanctioned by the members in the US yet".  The changesB > in fact were REJECTED by the members in the US, but the Board ofE > Directors found a loophole to proceed anyway with what they wanted.h >aB > But in using the "emergency" loophole they are required to bring0 > the matter to the US members for ratification. >e- > I urge all US members to REJECT this again.y >eK > Certainly those who approved the inclusion of the loophole did not intendt5 > "we lost when the members voted" as an "emergency".p  K It has been very explicitly stated on multiple occasions in multiple venues L that the US Chapter will be compelled to suspend delivery of member servicesL at the end of calendar year 2000 if the incorporation initiative fails. ThatI is not a "threat," it is a simple fact. Hence urging US members to rejecteL the ratification of the incorporation-related bylaws is tantamount to urgingH US members to forget about things like a website, membership, and future	 symposia.i  H As a longtime member of the DECUS US Chapter, I would urge US members toF consider the ramifications of a negative vote before they return their ballots.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:59:02 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Welcome to Encompass!; Message-ID: <W4sE5.43476$tn.805356@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>n  < "Steven P. Underwood" <StevenU@POBoxes.com> wrote in message, news:39e247fa.112126435@news.telocity.com...F > I have to agree.  I don't follow this group too closely, but it tookH > several days before I realized that this thread was actually not SPAM,8 > so I missed the start of it.  Why is it being changed?  > I won't repeat what exists elsewhere, so I'd suggest you visitK www.encompassus.com or the "old" DECUS US Chapter website for more detailed $ information. Some comments follow...   >o > Stevee >a. > On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 14:55:56 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >S > >Just an opinion:. > > H > >If Encompass does not include Itug or ither Compaq user groups and is stillH6 > >essentiall DECUS, why bother with the name change ?  F The DECUS US Chapter is changing its status to an incorporated not forF profit organization in order to retain an association management firm,D initiate contracts, and function as a completely independent entity.  F We felt it prudent to change the name of the organization to reflect aJ broader audience. Rightly or wrongly, DECUS is synonymous (to many people)L with "OpenVMS" and "Digital Products." Not to minimize their importance, but> there's a lot more to Compaq than the aforementioned products.   > >eI > >DECUS is certaintly more recognisable. The minute you change the name,r younK > >will confuse a hell of a lot of people and essentially confirm the death  ofJ > >DECUS in the USA. (and probably around the world even though some DECUS# > >chapters may survive elsewhere).g  F The DECUS name has been retired, but I can assure you the constituencyG represented by that name is alive and well. CETS 2000 in Los Angeles iskK prima facie evidence of this fact. Incidentally, Encompass picked up a hugec5 number of new sustaining (paid) members at the event.y  
 Terry Shannona Director at Large, Encompass, Inc.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:07:38 -0400 / From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com> " Subject: Re: Welcome to Encompass!) Message-ID: <39E25DC5.103E@ix.netcom.com>m   Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  ><SNIP>tB > But in using the "emergency" loophole they are required to bring0 > the matter to the US members for ratification. > - > I urge all US members to REJECT this again.e > K > Certainly those who approved the inclusion of the loophole did not intendn5 > "we lost when the members voted" as an "emergency".n  D While I respect Larry Kilgallen's right to recommend, I suggest that@ rejecting the ratification of the Board's "emergency" proceduresB IS NOT the appropraite way to indicate displeasure with the Board.  F Approve the Bylaws change or you will not have _any_ organization.  IfD incorporation as a not for profit organization is disapproved, DECUS willH very likely cease to exist or no services (of any kind) will be provided" until incorporation _IS_ approved.  I If you are displeased with the Board, then stand for a seat on the Board tE or campaign for or against those on the Board whose actions you like   or dislike.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:43:42 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: Re: Welcome to Encompass!, Message-ID: <39E2743A.42D3AD5C@videotron.ca>   "Joe H. Gallagher" wrote: H > Approve the Bylaws change or you will not have _any_ organization.  IfF > incorporation as a not for profit organization is disapproved, DECUS > willJ > very likely cease to exist or no services (of any kind) will be provided$ > until incorporation _IS_ approved.  N Something I don't quite understand here. From the sounds of it, DECUS USA will cease to exist.KH A new incorporated entity called Encompass will be formed and will offer6 services similar to those previously offered by DECUS.  L Since DECUS and all of its bylaws baggage will cease to exist, I don't quiteL understand why there is a need to approve bylaws of a brand new corporation.K Just form the new corporation with whatever bylaws you want and then invitei members to join..l   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 03:03:11 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: Welcome to Encompass!; Message-ID: <PFvE5.44723$tn.818981@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>e  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:39E2743A.42D3AD5C@videotron.ca... > "Joe H. Gallagher" wrote:uJ > > Approve the Bylaws change or you will not have _any_ organization.  IfH > > incorporation as a not for profit organization is disapproved, DECUS > > willL > > very likely cease to exist or no services (of any kind) will be provided& > > until incorporation _IS_ approved. >oK > Something I don't quite understand here. From the sounds of it, DECUS USA3 will > cease to exist.iJ > A new incorporated entity called Encompass will be formed and will offer8 > services similar to those previously offered by DECUS. >eH > Since DECUS and all of its bylaws baggage will cease to exist, I don't quite.A > understand why there is a need to approve bylaws of a brand newr corporation.F > Just form the new corporation with whatever bylaws you want and then invite > members to join..   L This would, I believe, be theoretically possible. On the other hand pursuingK such a course would reflect a unilateral action on the part of the Board oft
 Directors.  K While significantly more than a majority of our members supported the bylaweL change referendum that took place last month , the vote did not meet the 2/3G requirement needed for the adoption of new bylaws. (The vote was 514 inuK favor, 311 opposed). Further discussions with members and with participantsnK in a Bylaws Committee conference call revealed no significant opposition tol@ the incorporation of DECUS per se; the participants realized the( consequences of failing to move forward.  B Invoking the Board's emergency powers to enact bylaws required forL incorporation enabled the Board to do what was necessary to contract with anF association management firm and to begin planning for Y2K01 activitiesF including CETS2001, international joint advocacy, and Chapter-specificA advocacy programs. Changes made under these circumstances requiretL ratification by the membership, and ballots should be in the mail right now.I Hence the membership will have the final say; which would not be the caset8 had the Board dissolved DECUS and formed Encompass, Inc.  E The ballot that's enroute now will include a question relative to thedL passage of incorporation-related bylaws as well as questions relative to theH passage of seven amendments. If the incorporation-related bylaws fail toK pass by the required two-thirds majority, the seven amendments are moot (ascL is the concept of a viable user group). The seven amendments were drafted asH a result of the activities of the Bylaws Committee and relate to mattersJ including term limits, motions to recall Directors, means by which membersH can be nominated for a Director election, electronic voting, etc. Please< read the ballot material carefully before casting your vote!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.566 ************************