1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 20 Oct 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 587       Contents: Re: 3W3 pin-out and video cards 1 Announcing: MegaPOVRay v0.6a For OpenVMS Alpha... 5 Re: Announcing: MegaPOVRay v0.6a For OpenVMS Alpha...  Re: Automate Decserver Login Batch log killer ! Re: Batch log killer ! Re: Batch log killer ! Re: Batch log killer ! Re: Batch log killer ! Re: Batch log killer ! Re: Broadcasting and UCX Calling C++ from FORTRAN Re: Calling C++ from FORTRAN# Compaq C (v6.2-008) Header Question ( Re: Detecting hardware failures from VMS( Re: Detecting hardware failures from VMSM Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun Hardware problemspersist) P Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun Hardware problemspersist)perP Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun Hardware problemspersist)perP Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun Hardwareproblemspersist)pers
 hobbiest lic.  Re: hobbiest lic. ' Re: Jumper settings for RZ23 disk drive  LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL Error  Re: LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL Error 3 Re: Linker performance on DS20 slower than VAX 6520  Re: MOZILLA M18 crashes  Re: ODBC access to RMS files Re: OpenVMS Integrated products   Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ...  Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ...  Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ...  Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ... Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS  Re: Oracle online backups on VMS Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS  Re: PDF under OpenVMS + Re: Reading and writing files via $QIO in C # Re[2]: Oracle online backups on VMS # Re[2]: Oracle online backups on VMS # Re[3]: Oracle online backups on VMS  Script Under Systartup Re: Script Under Systartup Re: Script Under Systartup Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher This list participants profile User Guide for Vax (VMS) Re: User Guide for Vax (VMS) Re: User Guide for Vax (VMS) Re: User Guide for Vax (VMS)& Re: using RA82 HDA w/RA81 electronics? Re: v7.2 multipath support Re: VAX emulator Re: VAX emulator Re: VBN Error in Indexed File  Re: VMS C Compiler Re: VMSINSTALL Question  Re: VMSINSTALL Question C Re: What would be your ultimate dream VMS machine (desktop/tower) ? C Re: What would be your ultimate dream VMS machine (desktop/tower) ? 
 Re: X Desktop 
 Re: X Desktop  X-terminal / Compaq T1500  Re: X-terminal / Compaq T1500  Xemacs on OpenVMS ?  Re: Xemacs on OpenVMS ?  Re: Xemacs on OpenVMS ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:06:36 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)( Subject: Re: 3W3 pin-out and video cardsL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2010001306360001@user-2iveb2l.dialup.mindspring.com>  h In article <qqoH5.45$d62.12826@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:    L > I've had basically no luck finding info on video cards in the OpenVMS SPD,L > and IIRC, only found very limited info in the current Open3D SPD. :^(  TheE > info I've got on graphics cards is almost totally out of the SOC's.   N IIRC, some info also wound up in the DECwindows SPD.  I agree, it's confusing.   B > For the time being at least the OpenVMS V7.2 SPD can be found at, > http://www.digital.com/SP2501/SP2501SC.TXT   Thanks.     O > > The PMAGB-BA is the overwhelmingly common card for turbochannel machines in O > > the used market.  But I don't have detailed specs at hand.  If you find an  Q > > SOC for a DEC 3000-400, you might find something about this card.  The newer  @ > > SOC for the 600 and 700 models only describes the ZLX cards. > L > The trick seems to be finding a SOC for the DEC 3000-400, however, I thinkM > I've got the manual in a box at home.  I've just not had time to go digging  > through that pile of info.     H > That's useful to know!  If I understand correctly here that means that1 > someone can use a PGX board up to OpenVMS V7.1?    Well, no.  I think the note I saw in the 7.1 manual took effect at 7.0.  But I've never seen a 7.0 doc set, so I referenced the one I've actually seen.    And I don't know if "not supported" means "won't work anymore", or "we didn't test it, so we won't support it".  Maybe I'll ask someone with the appropriate hardware to check it.   2 > > What is the scope of the FAQ you're compiling? > H > I'm working on one that answers all those questions that Hobbyists areL > likely to have that aren't really within the scope of the OpenVMS FAQ, andK > in some cases would be very inappropriate for that FAQ.  I hope to have a L > rough draft out in the near future if I can continue to find a little time > to work on it.  Sounds useful.  I'll be interested in seeing it.  I've been gathering up DEC 3000 and turbochannel information I bump into.  Let me know if any of it might be useful.  Alas, URLs at compaq are probably too temporary to be any use, and I have no way to make stuff available on the web.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Oct 2000 20:16:12 EST1 From: byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) : Subject: Announcing: MegaPOVRay v0.6a For OpenVMS Alpha...1 Message-ID: <+PfkVzBTUFNG@cartman.ourservers.net>   ( Announcing MegaPOVRay v0.6a for OpenVMS.  K I've completed my testing of MegaPOVRay v0.6a for OpenVMS and documentation $ installation files can be found at..  ) 	http://www.ourservers.net/openvms_ports/   K Both the standard command line and X-display versions can be built with the  kit.  M Currently, as with the last ports this is an Alpha only port since MegaPOVRay 1 requires IEEE float mode, which VAX dosen't have.    --    @  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |@  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+@  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+@  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |@  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |@  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |@  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |@  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 14:19:39 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)> Subject: Re: Announcing: MegaPOVRay v0.6a For OpenVMS Alpha...6 Message-ID: <8spk9r$c8u$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  e In article <+PfkVzBTUFNG@cartman.ourservers.net>, byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) writes:  : ) :Announcing MegaPOVRay v0.6a for OpenVMS.   E   Can you package this up as a Freeware submission, or can I download    and use the copy at:  * :	http://www.ourservers.net/openvms_ports/     As a submission?  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 07:09:04 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) % Subject: Re: Automate Decserver Login 0 Message-ID: <8sor2g$jg7$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  [ In article <39EF0BB4.46716281@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes: 
 >Try this: > % >	http://www.dpng.com/dr/servers/tsm/                      ^^                    dnpg    Beware of the typo...    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:33:30 +0800 , From: "Little White" <Trishgoff@hotmail.com> Subject: Batch log killer ! ( Message-ID: <8sp01a$1ks$1@m5.att.net.hk>   To all experts,   F Have you experienced the batch job that is not running randomly in the, beginning with the following error message :   > type batchlog:s9.log* Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT File not found5   AEUNG     job terminated at 20-OCT-2000 16:11:00.29   G Even I have put the ON ERROR goto routine to trap this but seem doesn't L work, can anyone tell me why this problem happened randomly and how to solveD that. I thought it is due to the system is running another batch jobI simultaneously and no resources to run this job, but I have set queue job E count is much more than the job will actually run at a specific time.   ! Thanks for your kindly attention.  Rgds,                  -- Where were you in '82 ? ! I was in France, where were you ?   I was in school, where was Lou ? Lou wasn't born in '82 :P    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:24:22 GMT 1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>  Subject: Re: Batch log killer ! ' Message-ID: <abUH5.53$kd2.6863@nostril>   + Little White <Trishgoff@hotmail.com> wrote:  > To all experts,   H > Have you experienced the batch job that is not running randomly in the. > beginning with the following error message :   >> type batchlog:s9.log , > Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT > File not found7 >   AEUNG     job terminated at 20-OCT-2000 16:11:00.29   @ 	My guess is that the command file submitted to run in batch has3 	been deleted or purged before its scheduled start.   B 	Someone else in this thread will probably explain it properly howC 	the queue manager uses the File ID and not the name of the command  	file.
 					Csaba    I > Even I have put the ON ERROR goto routine to trap this but seem doesn't N > work, can anyone tell me why this problem happened randomly and how to solveF > that. I thought it is due to the system is running another batch jobK > simultaneously and no resources to run this job, but I have set queue job G > count is much more than the job will actually run at a specific time.     I    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- E    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehog E    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush. I    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:37:01 GMT ( From: Rainer Giese <giese_r@my-deja.com> Subject: Re: Batch log killer ! ) Message-ID: <8sp3nv$o6c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   E Typically this occurs, if you edit the procedure, purge it and forget F to newly submit the job. So the existing job points to the old version of the procedure.   D How ever, the job doesn't find the procedure (which is SYS$INPUT for it).   R.G.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:10:33 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: Re: Batch log killer ! 0 Message-ID: <8sp5mp$l0e$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  W In article <8sp01a$1ks$1@m5.att.net.hk>, "Little White" <Trishgoff@hotmail.com> writes: G >Have you experienced the batch job that is not running randomly in the - >beginning with the following error message :  >  >> type batchlog:s9.log + >Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT  >File not found 6 >  AEUNG     job terminated at 20-OCT-2000 16:11:00.29 > H >Even I have put the ON ERROR goto routine to trap this but seem doesn'tM >work, can anyone tell me why this problem happened randomly and how to solve E >that. I thought it is due to the system is running another batch job J >simultaneously and no resources to run this job, but I have set queue jobF >count is much more than the job will actually run at a specific time.  O Could it be that your .COM file has been deleted before your batch job actually 2 starts, e.g. someone did a purge to the .COM file?   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 06:26 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: Batch log killer ! - Message-ID: <20OCT200006262757@gerg.tamu.edu>   0 "Little White" <Trishgoff@hotmail.com> writes...G }Have you experienced the batch job that is not running randomly in the - }beginning with the following error message :  }  }> type batchlog:s9.log + }Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT  }File not found 6 }  AEUNG     job terminated at 20-OCT-2000 16:11:00.29 } H }Even I have put the ON ERROR goto routine to trap this but seem doesn'tM }work, can anyone tell me why this problem happened randomly and how to solve E }that. I thought it is due to the system is running another batch job J }simultaneously and no resources to run this job, but I have set queue jobF }count is much more than the job will actually run at a specific time.  F I expect that the single most common cause of this is that the commandB file submitted to the queue has been deleted, usually due to a newH version being created and the old version being purged away. The commandG file submitted is not actually remembered by name (even though the name E shows up if you do a SHOW QUEUE/FULL), but by FID instead, so it will D not run a new version of the file (even if you rename it to ahve theH same version number as the onld one) - just the specific file originally  entered with the submit command.  E It doesn't matter if you put an ON ERROR in the command file since it G never runs the command file, which is not surprising since the error is G telling you that it can't find the command file (which is SYS$INPUT for  the batch process).   D Other possibilties are things like the disk the file is on not beingD accessible at the time the batch job runs, and other unlikely things along those lines.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:58:38 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: Batch log killer ! 4 Message-ID: <C225697E.004C1BC7.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  E > The command file submitted is not actually remembered by name (even C > though the name shows up if you do a SHOW QUEUE/FULL), but by FID D > instead, so it will not run a new version of the file (even if youB > rename it to have the same version number as the old one) - just? > the specific file originally entered with the submit command.   I There is a way to fool the queue manager.  If you create a new version of G the command procedure, then execute a BACKUP/OVERLAY of the new version G onto the prior version (I'd delete the new version to avoid confusion), E then the overlaid command procedure will have the original File Id of G the version that was previously submitted, and the correct command file 8 will be invoked.  This avoids the need for resubmission.          3 carl@gergl1.gerg.tamu.edu on 10/20/2000 08:26:00 AM    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:   Subject:  Re: Batch log killer !        0 "Little White" <Trishgoff@hotmail.com> writes...G }Have you experienced the batch job that is not running randomly in the - }beginning with the following error message :  }  }> type batchlog:s9.log + }Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT  }File not found 6 }  AEUNG     job terminated at 20-OCT-2000 16:11:00.29 } H }Even I have put the ON ERROR goto routine to trap this but seem doesn'tM }work, can anyone tell me why this problem happened randomly and how to solvevE }that. I thought it is due to the system is running another batch jobSJ }simultaneously and no resources to run this job, but I have set queue jobF }count is much more than the job will actually run at a specific time.  F I expect that the single most common cause of this is that the commandB file submitted to the queue has been deleted, usually due to a newH version being created and the old version being purged away. The commandG file submitted is not actually remembered by name (even though the name E shows up if you do a SHOW QUEUE/FULL), but by FID instead, so it will D not run a new version of the file (even if you rename it to ahve theH same version number as the onld one) - just the specific file originally  entered with the submit command.  E It doesn't matter if you put an ON ERROR in the command file since ittG never runs the command file, which is not surprising since the error isAG telling you that it can't find the command file (which is SYS$INPUT fore the batch process).   D Other possibilties are things like the disk the file is on not beingD accessible at the time the batch job runs, and other unlikely things along those lines.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:32:05 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)S! Subject: Re: Broadcasting and UCX / Message-ID: <sv10cl7gtfmsa9@news.supernews.com>n  @ mindphaser23@my-deja.com wrote in <8sno7o$m5v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:  G >I apologize for not being more clear. This is an internal network thatpG >is isolated from "The World". The goal is that we need to broadcast onpC >all internal subnets. With a foundation of 192.168.xxx.xxx, we are G >using a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 and only changing the third octet E >for simplification. Therefore, typical subnets within our enterprise23 >are 192.168.50.0, 192.168.70.0, 192.168.99.0, etc.e >cH >We have developed software that sends race/sports money line updates toA >sportswriters' terminals. The problem is if the VAX (main server"D >running VMS) is at 192.168.10.111, we find that it broadcasts theseG >line changes to 192.168.10.255. The code has been verified that it wasrC >written to broadcast at 255.255.255.255, which theoretically wouldAH >broadcast to all our subnets. However, the network sniffer is capturingD >these packets and showing a broadcast address of 192.168.10.255. WeA >suspect that UCX is applying some sort of a mask to the outgoingr> >broadcast. So the question is, how can we ensure that the VAX. >broadcasts to the network at 255.255.255.255? > D >Just a little more info. When the terminal is signed on and sends aC >signon request, it is broadcast at 255.255.255.255 and indeed this G >broadcast UDP makes it to all allowed subnets (filtered with routers).-8 >The terminals are essentially PCs running embedded NT4.  I Thank you for the additional details.  It certainly does sound like your 3H subnet mask is being applied when formulating the broadcast address.  I K suspect in your call to the IP stack you have a parameter or argument that nF specifes to broadcast only to your local lan - rather than the entire J world.  Or perhaps the default broadcast scope needs to be explicitly set K with an api call before starting to broadcast.  I'm pretty sure you should nC be able to send to address 255.255.255.255 - but I'm reaching here.    ws   -- f3 << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:39:19 -0500o" From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>! Subject: Calling C++ from FORTRAN ) Message-ID: <39F04B07.63F3D626@ipact.com>   0 Has anyone tried to instantiate a C++ Class from1 FORTRAN, I would be interested. Also  calling they, methods or accessing the properties as well.+ Even if this required calling a C++ stub tow, instantiate the object and call the methods.  , I guess one would have to use CXLINK to link the program as well.  + I examined the FORTRAN manual and it seemedt5 a bit brief referencing the OpenVMS calling standard.o  / I have been successful calling FORTRAN routines , from C++.  (E.g., creating a C++ wrapper and, then calling old FORTRAN modules to actually implement the method).   --
 Earl Lakia
 IPACT Inc. lakia@ipact.comt   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 15:49:46 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)% Subject: Re: Calling C++ from FORTRAN , Message-ID: <8sppiq$mth@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  N In article <39F04B07.63F3D626@ipact.com>, Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com> writes: >k1 >Has anyone tried to instantiate a C++ Class fromo2 >FORTRAN, I would be interested. Also  calling the- >methods or accessing the properties as well. , >Even if this required calling a C++ stub to- >instantiate the object and call the methods.r >n- >I guess one would have to use CXLINK to link  >the program as well.n > , >I examined the FORTRAN manual and it seemed6 >a bit brief referencing the OpenVMS calling standard. >   I The OpenVMS calling standard is the least of your worries. The problem ismE that you're at the very least going to have to determine which of theqF myriad mangled C++ entry points is the one you really want.   And evenB then I'm not sure that the linker will put the right pieces in to A instantiate everything unless the first thing to run is also C++.0  0 >I have been successful calling FORTRAN routines- >from C++.  (E.g., creating a C++ wrapper and6- >then calling old FORTRAN modules to actuallyN >implement the method).   > Yeah, that's easy, because when you write a fortran subroutine6 named "FOO" that's the name the linker's going to see.  J My first suggestion is that you write all of this in C++, or all of it in H Fortran, but DO NOT do the mixed mode programming.  With enough work youH may be able to make it work, but making the chimera run on any other OS I will be a nightmare.   If you must use Fortran as well (and if it were myaJ choice I'd do it all in Fortran rather than screw around with that endlessI time synch which is C++) then start the main in C++, have it call the top-D fortran routine, and have that return some sort of a an address to aE pointer structure, and a selector for a C++ function, so that the C++-3 function can call it directly. Ie, something like: |   // C++ codee  . GENERIC_CALL_DATA_STRUCTURE          *gstruct;. HANDLE_FOR_FORTRAN_ACCESSIBLE_DATA   *dstruct;; int                                   c_function_indicator;i    while (1){   E    (void) fortran_routine(&c_function_indicator, &dstruct, &gstruct);-B    (void) cpp_dispatcher(&c_function_indicator,&dstruct, &gstruct)    }  F That is, when fortran wants to call C++ function "do_whatever" it setsE c_function_indicator to 12 (the index for do_whatever in some table),0K constructs the data to pass to it, and stores it in what gstruct points to,oK and then returns. cpp_dispatcher looks up "12" in the table, sees that it'snI a call to "do_whatever", and unpacks the data from gstruct as appropriateSH for the call.  Unless the only data that moves back and forth are simpleJ integers and IEEE doubles it's going to be an awful mess.  Strings will be# a pain, and structures even worse. -  ) Good luck - I fear you'll really need it.-   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edup? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech -   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:36:08 GMT./ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>t, Subject: Compaq C (v6.2-008) Header Question) Message-ID: <39F03C38.7B106F26@uiowa.edu>B  F I am trying to compile a program that I had no trouble with last fall,F but now I am getting a compiler error pointing to a line in one of the3 C headers (in resolv.h).  Here is the errors I get:y  $ u_int           res_randomid (void); ................^- %CC-E-NOSEMI, Missing ";".3 at line number 302 in module RESOLV of text library $ SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.TLB;5  G ns_updrec *     res_mkupdrec (int, const char *, u_int, u_int, u_long); 2 .................................................^2 %CC-E-PARMTYPLIST, Ill-formed parameter type list.3 at line number 319 in module RESOLV of text library|$ SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.TLB;5  ? 	I am at a loss to resolve (excuse the pun) this error.  I even-H installed v6.2A from the Sep00 ConDist thinking it was newer than what IF had but apparently it is still just v6.2-008 which I had before.  I amH building on an alpha/OpenVMS v7.1 and I have also tried with v7.2-1 with the same results/errors.  = 	Does anyone have any ideas on where I should look to resolveeC this?  Have I found a bug in a header file?  When I browse the texttG versions (not the text library!) I can't see anything that screams out.h   Rick -- NH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:14:15 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>r1 Subject: Re: Detecting hardware failures from VMSa) Message-ID: <39F03717.C037F23E@bbc.co.uk>S   Shael Richmond wrote:z   >l >oG > Speaking of DECevent, is it ever going to be cluster aware?  It seemsn > silly - > to install it for each node in the cluster.  >o  ; Its appears to be written by unix heads who have no conceptn of a VMS cluster.    >e > Shaeln   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk1  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:56:10 GMTw1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>n1 Subject: Re: Detecting hardware failures from VMSn2 Message-ID: <39F04286.88F53815@clarityconnect.com>  D Yes these products or their replacements will one day become cluster= aware, I have discussed how to accomplish this with the teamshH responsible for the products, search lists, rooted logicals and all that ;*)o   Shael Richmond wrote:r >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > > k > > In article <pk2sus0nf6ubj4jt6au6qa8jva2l4gh9gp@4ax.com>, Dave Harrold <DRHarrold@earthlink.net> writes:-I > > :We just had a situation here that got me thinking.  One of our GS60E I > > :systems just lost a power supply with a bang. Fortunately (?) one of J > > :our people was standing next to it when it went, so he came on got meK > > :right away.  There isn't anything I can see in DECevent recording thisZ > > :event.l > >[J > >   DECevent (and its replacement, Compaq Analyze) provides analysis andH > >   notification capabilities for customers with hardware service fromJ > >   Compaq -- the bit-to-text translation is probably the best known andI > >   most commonly-used function, but it is not the only available part.  > >x > G > Speaking of DECevent, is it ever going to be cluster aware?  It seems  > sillyi- > to install it for each node in the cluster.  >  > Shaele   -- DD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:21:26 +0200e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>oV Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun Hardware problemspersist)) Message-ID: <39F00E95.80148EBE@gtech.com>l   andrew harrison wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote: > > andrew harrison wrote:< > > > The rest is smply a straw man on your part. We are not: > > > talking about Sun's clustering capability, it wasn't& > > > responsible for eTrades outages. > >s > > Or so you claim !m > 2 > I know its fashionable amongst the more paranoid5 > denizins of this group to blame Sun for most of then3 > bad things that have happened to OpenVMS but thisj/ > would be if it really represents your views ay- > further descent into total paranoia. :):):)u > $ > Of course you arn't serious :):):)  B Yes - it was a semi-joke, but remember you work for a company that8 gets customers to sign NDA's in case of problems. So any computer-problem is potentially a SUN problem !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:35:33 -0200m) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br Y Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun Hardware problemspersist)pereL Message-ID: <OF4CC097FF.B5129A05-ON8325697E.003F95D6@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H Dont forget people ! ! ! Sun has it own product for clustering, but the= re are from other vendors like VERITAS ....O  
 Regards FC              = Arne Vajh=F8j <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> em 20/10/2000 07:21:26 H                                                                        =     =20mH                                                                        =     =20yH                                                                        =     =20o    @                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                              =20@                                                              =20@  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)  =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Assunto: Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun=20@           Hardware problems persist)persist)                 =20@                                                              =20           =o     andrew harrison wrote: > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > > andrew harrison wrote:< > > > The rest is smply a straw man on your part. We are not: > > > talking about Sun's clustering capability, it wasn't& > > > responsible for eTrades outages. > >t > > Or so you claim !R >i2 > I know its fashionable amongst the more paranoid5 > denizins of this group to blame Sun for most of thel3 > bad things that have happened to OpenVMS but this / > would be if it really represents your views as- > further descent into total paranoia. :):):)n >t$ > Of course you arn't serious :):):)  B Yes - it was a semi-joke, but remember you work for a company that8 gets customers to sign NDA's in case of problems. So any computer-problem is potentially a SUN problem !   Arne       =B   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:40:58 GMT 4 From: "Curtis Rempel" <vmsguy.no.spam.here@home.com>Y Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun Hardware problemspersist)per : Message-ID: <KXXH5.27804$76.600492@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>  H At the risk (and fun) of getting Andrew all worked up again (still), SunJ does not have a clustering product despite what they claim - end of story.  J On a totally unrelated note (but while I'm throwing gas on the fire) I wasG at a site yesterday that put in some UE10K's a year ago - to date theirpJ unscheduled outage count stands at 56.  Mr. McNealy has some work to do ifH he wants to maximize his annual availability numbers - try weekly first.   Over to you Andrew...  ;-)  ;-)e    6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OF4CC097FF.B5129A05-ON8325697E.003F95D6@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br...I Dont forget people ! ! ! Sun has it own product for clustering, but there  are from other vendors like VERITAS ....@  
 Regards FC              ; Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> em 20/10/2000 07:21:26i                  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg  ;  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)t      =  Assunto: Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun-,           Hardware problems persist)persist)                 andrew harrison wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote: > > andrew harrison wrote:< > > > The rest is smply a straw man on your part. We are not: > > > talking about Sun's clustering capability, it wasn't& > > > responsible for eTrades outages. > >u > > Or so you claim !  >u2 > I know its fashionable amongst the more paranoid5 > denizins of this group to blame Sun for most of thec3 > bad things that have happened to OpenVMS but thish/ > would be if it really represents your views ae- > further descent into total paranoia. :):):)u >d$ > Of course you arn't serious :):):)  B Yes - it was a semi-joke, but remember you work for a company that8 gets customers to sign NDA's in case of problems. So any computer-problem is potentially a SUN problem !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:00:10 +0100r0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>Y Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant Clusters and Sun (was Re: Sun Hardwareproblemspersist)persf* Message-ID: <39F06C0A.83E7F7A1@uk.sun.com>   Curtis Rempel wrote: > J > At the risk (and fun) of getting Andrew all worked up again (still), SunL > does not have a clustering product despite what they claim - end of story. > L > On a totally unrelated note (but while I'm throwing gas on the fire) I wasI > at a site yesterday that put in some UE10K's a year ago - to date their2L > unscheduled outage count stands at 56.  Mr. McNealy has some work to do ifJ > he wants to maximize his annual availability numbers - try weekly first. > ! > Over to you Andrew...  ;-)  ;-)$    D Hey Curtis arn't you the guy that just killed off 1500 users on yourD OpenVMS cluster to roll back from a duff patch that Compaq supplied  to a working one.   ? Oh I forgot the cluster didn't die did it just all those littlew
 footsoldiers.a  > You wern't the only person on the thread to be making similar  complaints either.  ) Pity you forgot that before your posting.r   regards1 Andrew Harrison1 Enterprise IT Architectc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:46:44 -0400e. From: Hank Vander Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com> Subject: hobbiest lic.8 Message-ID: <000701c03a93$cdf4a620$2b96a8c6@mscmain.com>  J If I order the Hobby  VMS Lic. now will I get the newest version of TCP-IP (5.0A)??K We have all heard of the problems with 5.0 and was wondering what version Ia would get if ordered now.v  C If not anyone know when the hobby cd would have the newer version??d   Thanks Hank Vander Waal   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:02:27 GMTr- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)s Subject: Re: hobbiest lic.0 Message-ID: <39f06c36.87772930@swen.process.com>  4 On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:46:44 -0400, Hank Vander Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com> wrote:   >tK >If I order the Hobby  VMS Lic. now will I get the newest version of TCP-IPs	 >(5.0A)??tL >We have all heard of the problems with 5.0 and was wondering what version I >would get if ordered now. >lD >If not anyone know when the hobby cd would have the newer version?? >i> I don't know about the hobby CD, but thought I'd pont out that@ you can get MultiNet and TCPware under the Hobbyist program too.  , http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/e: goathunter@goatley.com      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 11:29 -04002 From: hein@eps.zko.dec.c*m0 Subject: Re: Jumper settings for RZ23 disk drive& Message-ID: <20OCT200011291537@miasys>  Q In article <39e61716$1_1@news2.one.net>, "Tom - News" <steuver@nku.edu> writes...iK >Does anyone have the jumper (SCSI select) settings for an RZ23 disk drive?6 >   G     You would not happen to be looking for a 'spinup' jumper would you?wD     There is none! Gotta set that through software with rzspinup or A     console tests or rzdisk/SCU etc. I'll include an cute articlenA     about an odd way to use some console firmware to set the bit.   H        There are six jumpers available for configuration: three of theseH        jumpers (E1, E2, and E3) are used to select the SCSI ID, while E4H        (installed) disables parity. Jumpers E5 and E6 are used to enableH        either the spindle synchronization signal or the LED (at J4, pinsE        1 and 2). The drive shall be shipped from the factory with the-D        following jumper configuration: E1, E2, E3, and E6 installed.  @        The SCSI ID jumper configurations are defined as follows:  &         E1      E2      E3      DEVICE  !         OUT     OUT     OUT     0B!         IN      OUT     OUT     1<!         OUT     IN      OUT     2a!         IN      IN      OUT     3a!         OUT     OUT     IN      4r!         IN      OUT     IN      5o!         OUT     IN      IN      6 !         IN      IN      IN      7C     -------------------------j  I     RE: setting and clearing the RZ22/23 DSP (disable spinup at power-on)          bit...  E     If you've got a PVAX with the SCSI-SCSI storage option, there's arK     sneaky trick in the ROMs that'll let you change the DSP (disable spinupiI     at power-on) bit.  You need one of those MMJ loopback connectors that I     look like a red spoon;  that gets you into "field service" mode wheres#     you get to do dangerous things.   I     Put the spoon in, and power on the unit.  At the console prompt, typetF     "T 73" to start the Tape Key Utility.  Don't worry about the name,K     'cause it's only the magic inside this code we want to get.  Answer theeJ     questions about which port and which ID the drive is set for.  I can'tI     remember whether the code allows you to specify a LUN (logical unit),eI     but if the question comes up, answer that one too.  When the "RUsure"sL     question comes up, answer "41000001" -- this is part of the strong magic     I alluded to before.  K     The code will do a MODE SENSE, then turn around and issue a MODE SELECT K     with the DSP bit clear.  Ultimately, the code will report an error, but I     don't worry:  it's complaining that the device isn't a tape (remembert)     this used to be a tape key utility?).e  H     Take out the spoon and cycle power again to get out of field serviceK     mode.  No sense aggravating the gods by leaving too many privileges on.o  A     That should do it.  The drive should spin up at power on now.,  K     If you want to get things back the way they were, perform all the aboverF     steps but answer "42000001" to "RUsure."  That'll set the DSP bit.  J     Having said all that...  The reason we didn't want the RZs spinning upF     at power-on was that the current surge of three drives spinning upI     simultaneously was too much for the PVAX power supply.  Software tooko:     it upon itself to bring these drives up one-at-a-time.       Hope this helps,       -- Kenny House+ -------------------------------------------p   Cheers,a 	Hein.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:08:55 -0400 % From: James Griffin <griffin@vol.com>a$ Subject: LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL ErrorO Message-ID: <32CD989B7FDC035B.30D75B03F24EC064.056408057D5B56B7@lp.airnews.net>b   Good afternoon.i  @ I have a complex application currently running on a VAX that I'mB porting to a DS20E.  The DS20 runs OVMS 7.2-1.  The code is almost exclusively fortran.  E The application makes use of shared images for global commons - there F are a lot of semi-independent processes that make up the application. D I've successfully ported the shared images and most of the processesG from VAX to Alpha, but there's one piece of code that's got me stumped.n  G The code uses LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL to make sure that a shared image isoC installed (and, the image *is* installed).  The code goes somethingm
 like this:  F ISTAT= LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL (ZRTNAME(1:INUM), ZRTNAME(1:INUM), IADDR)  C The program compiles and links just fine.  However, at run time, it-E bombs out when the above line is executed, returning a stack dump andx? an error line that reads "Invalid record's file address (RFA)".   E Any suggestions?  This code works fine on OVMS 5.4-2 on a VAX.  There.D is a logical for the shared image defined in the System table.  I'veD copied the shared image to SYS$SHARE: and done several other similar things, all to no avail.   TIAe   Jim Griffink USNRCu jpg1@nrc.gov   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 17:42:42 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)( Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL Error6 Message-ID: <8sq06i$ebn$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  w In article <32CD989B7FDC035B.30D75B03F24EC064.056408057D5B56B7@lp.airnews.net>, James Griffin <griffin@vol.com> writes:l :Good afternoon.  *   Ayup, it is afternoon.  Somewhere... :-)  F :The application makes use of shared images for global commons - thereG :are a lot of semi-independent processes that make up the application. pE :I've successfully ported the shared images and most of the processes H :from VAX to Alpha, but there's one piece of code that's got me stumped. :uH :The code uses LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL to make sure that a shared image isD :installed (and, the image *is* installed).  The code goes something :like this:R  C   lib$find_image_symbol is more commonly used to load and activate uD   code dynamically -- that code might or might not be installed, andA   might or might not be checking to see if some code somewhere ist   itself is installed.  G :ISTAT= LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL (ZRTNAME(1:INUM), ZRTNAME(1:INUM), IADDR)g  E   What are the specific details of the image that is being activated? 6   Shareable image?  Something else?  How is it linked?  D   I can't say I've seen many (any?) cases where the call made to the5   lib$find_image_symbol routine returns an RFA error.k  ? :Any suggestions?  This code works fine on OVMS 5.4-2 on a VAX.u  G   Ensure that the logical name involved is defined in executive mode ine"   a privileged logical name table.  H   Take a look at the "COMMON" topic (topic 2486) in the OpenVMS Ask The H   Wizard area for a C example of working with lib$find_image_symbol and G   commons and shareable images -- I don't have a Fortran example handy.-  /     www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/wiz_2486.html6  G   I would encourage reducing the current problem code down to somethingsF   relatively simple and easy to work with -- look at topic 2486 for a F   standalone example of what I mean here -- and then post (or provide    a pointer to) the reproducer.e  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:18:24 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>y< Subject: Re: Linker performance on DS20 slower than VAX 6520) Message-ID: <39F00DE0.16B30089@gtech.com>8   chucknichols@my-deja.com wrote:aF > We are in the process of converting a real-time application from VAXH > VMS 5.5-2 to Alpha openVMS 7.2. We have purchased dual CPU DS20 AlphasH > with 1GB memory and two 9 GB disks mirrored for the system disk, three6 > 9 GB disks RAIDed to give 18GB for application disk. > B > Linking programs takes much longer on the Alpha, for example oneG > program takes about 3 minutes to link on our VAX 6520 (128 Kb) but its& > takes 12 - 13 minutes on the DS20!!! > G > As part of the conversion we borrowed a model 800 (400 Mhz) Alpha VMStI > 7.1 and I did not get complaints about the linking times. UnfortunatelyhH > we did not actually check the times but all the users feel the linking > performance was good on 800. > B > Is there any basic tuning required for an out of the box VMS 7.2H > system. I have checked the linking performance when I am the only user > and it is still bad.  % Linking is a very IO heavy operation.l  F First thing to check is disk fragmentation. I have seen x6 performance+ increases of linking after defragmentation.    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:01:50 GMT % From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)n  Subject: Re: MOZILLA M18 crashes1 Message-ID: <39f02331.935604408@news.newsguy.com>   C On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:41:31 GMT, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>e wrote:  0 >The new kit is available from the Mozilla site. >DL >It has been submitted to the OpenVMS site, but I don't think its there yet.' >It should be by morning at the latest.n  B Downloaded it. If I go to www.openvms.compaq.com with M18 the dateB displays as September 13, 1864. The CNN.COM sidebar (go to cnn.comB with mozilla and click on add Netscape 6 sidebar at top left) alsoC says last updated 11:52am local, 9/13. Previous releases of Mozilla E did this as well (but not on NT platform). Haven't reported it beforeU@ as I thought it would be obviously noticed. Don't think there isB anything strange about my local config that would be causing this.  @ Trying to run the OpenVMS Primer for Systems Managers on the VMS9 website (Netscape 4 and higher version) causes an ACCVIO.-  D On the plus side M18 can read messages from our IMAP server and send> out via SMTP. Earlier versions just crashed when I tried this.  : Also any word on when the Java plug in might be available?   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:32:27 +0100o& From: "Antonio" <antlatcx@yahoo.co.uk>% Subject: Re: ODBC access to RMS fileso? Message-ID: <Go_H5.912$Rk5.16760@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>   J I'd recommend using CONNX it has a great security model and also proved to be the best solution.h  F See http://www.generix.ltd.uk/connx/universal.htm for more information  + <ldeanroberts@my-deja.com> wrote in message # news:8snte0$qo2$1@nnrp1.deja.com...aD > What is the best way to get read-only access to RMS data via ODBC?D > I know Oracle has a method and have heard that Attunity does also. >  >e( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:40:30 GMTu+ From: Jordan Henderson <jordan@my-deja.com> ( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Integrated products) Message-ID: <8splgt$61e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>t  * In article <8s6v2i$7ru$1@lisa.gemair.com>,2   jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) wrote:3 > In article <39e6d09b.324648399@news.newsguy.com>,i( > Alan Greig <A.Greig@virgin.net> wrote:@ > >On 12 Oct 2000 09:15:23 -0400, jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan > >Henderson) wrote: > >nC > >>Has anyone brought this lack of cooperation to the attention ofd	 Stallman? > > >>I bet we could get him to use his bully pulpit in favor of maintainingrG > >>VMS mods, where available.  I personally corresponded with Stallmane someE > >>years back (about something, I can't recall).  He is approachableR andi > >>does respond to email. > >tH > >And he was very, very pro DEC at one point. The original PDP-10 EMACSH > >was submitted to DECUS 20 years ago and he has always said publically- > >that he is happy to see VMS mods included.t > >eG > >The question is perhaps what happened to Richard Levitte, the GNU on G > >VMS co-ordinator, I've sent him some email so maybe he can cast some 	 > >light.5 > >0 > F > Richard Levitte responded somewhere about updating Emacs (he was theE > Emacs on VMS maintainer at one point) that he just didn't have timepE > for it anymore.  I think he was burned out, doing it all by himselfeD > (and from what I read here, perhaps from reapplying changes to GNUC > distrubtions!).  He's now active as a developer in OpenSSL, which 0 > does make releases that are tested on OpenVMS: >   > 	http://www.openssl.org/about/ >sE > Awhile back, someone did post here or perhaps to the OSU HTTPD list B > (or was it the VMSPerl list?) that their firm was paying to haveF > Emacs V20 updated to run on OpenVMS V7.2, with the restrictions thatA > it would require ODS-5 and TCP/IP V5, or greater.  (I think I'mgD > remembering this correctly.)  Does anybody know about this project > and it's status? >N  B Well, In case anyone is interested, I heard a quick comment in the: VMSPerl list that the Emacs 20 port is still moving ahead.   > >-- 
 > >Alan Greigt >i > -Jordan Henderson  > jordan@greenapple.com" >a   -- -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.comi   -- -Jordan Hendersone jordan@greenapple.com.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:29:47 +0200t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>a) Subject: Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ...r) Message-ID: <39F0108A.AF8DF025@gtech.com>C   Bill Gunshannon wrote:. > In article <8sku7j$ao2@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,7 >  mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:pH > |> Java applications would be lot more attractive if the language alsoF > |> compiled to native object files which could be linked with shared > |> libraries.o > J > That runs contrary to the whole philosophy of Java which is architecture > independence.e   Yep.  hH >               And no matter how hard SUN fights it, it will still comeL > about.  I believe I saw something recently that the GNU people are alreadyF > working on a frontend to GCC to do Java, just like NYU did with Ada.  > GCJ are working fine. LIBGCJ are not ready for prime time yet.  3 Note that the resulting executables are pretty big.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:32:07 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>:) Subject: Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ...e) Message-ID: <39F01117.8812BFCA@gtech.com>r   David Mathog wrote:ab > In article <8snkes$14uv$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:/ > >In article <8sku7j$ao2@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,e8 > > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: > >|>oI > >|> Java applications would be lot more attractive if the language alsocG > >|> compiled to native object files which could be linked with sharedm > >|> libraries. > >tK > >That runs contrary to the whole philosophy of Java which is architecturei > >independence. > L > Huh?  Java is now a portable source code which must be interpreted to run.M > Making it into a portable source code which may also be compiled and linked1H > natively and run as a binary in no way degrades the portability of theJ > original java  program.  Sure, the BINARY that comes out is OS specific,J > but so what? That just means that platforms with real compilers can makeQ > Java programs work a lot better than platforms that don't have that capability.p  F In some cases the Java binary platform independency is a good feature.   In others cases - no problem.   H > This assumes, possibly incorrectly, that some feature or other of JavaE > isn't completely incompatible with compilation.  For instance, selfu; > modifying code is pretty common in intrepreted languages.0   I do not think Java does that.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:33:59 -0200i) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.brr) Subject: Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ...iL Message-ID: <OF84A1CAF8.3B697EE2-ON8325697E.003F307D@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H Well, I am not a developer but is possible to Java for OpenVMS use / li= nk to the  libraries ?wE Like use the system services, etc .... Java is plataform independet ,l that=B4s right ! ! !H But each platform has it owns resources, so, why not use them ???? I do= nt agree H with a universal program to all the platfomrsm  NT, Unix, OpenVMS, OS/3= 90 etc ...., Each platform has it owns capabilities . . .  
 Regards FC              C mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) em 19/10/2000 20:32:05y  / Favor responder a mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduiH                                                                        =     =20 H                                                                        =     =20rH                                                                        =     =20a    @                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                              =20@                                                              =20@  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)  =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Assunto: Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ...                   =20@                                                              =20           =h    F In article <8snkes$14uv$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:o- >In article <8sku7j$ao2@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,-6 > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: >|>qH >|> Java applications would be lot more attractive if the language also=  E >|> compiled to native object files which could be linked with sharedA >|> libraries. >5H >That runs contrary to the whole philosophy of Java which is architectu= re >independence.  H Huh?  Java is now a portable source code which must be interpreted to r= un. H Making it into a portable source code which may also be compiled and li= nkedF natively and run as a binary in no way degrades the portability of theH original java  program.  Sure, the BINARY that comes out is OS specific= , H but so what? That just means that platforms with real compilers can mak= e=C Java programs work a lot better than platforms that don't have that  capability.   F This assumes, possibly incorrectly, that some feature or other of JavaC isn't completely incompatible with compilation.  For instance, selfo9 modifying code is pretty common in intrepreted languages.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.educ> Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechH ***********************************************************************= *** H *                                RIP VMS                               =   * H ***********************************************************************= ***a       =a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:46:37 -0000=- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) ) Subject: Re: OpenVMS, java, perl, etc ...r/ Message-ID: <sv117tges5fi2c@news.supernews.com>n  G >In article <8snkes$14uv$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edua >(Bill Gunshannon) writes: u  F >Huh?  Java is now a portable source code which must be interpreted toF >run. Making it into a portable source code which may also be compiled? >and linked natively and run as a binary in no way degrades theoH >portability of the original java  program.  Sure, the BINARY that comesE >out is OS specific, but so what? That just means that platforms withnG >real compilers can make Java programs work a lot better than platformss" >that don't have that capability.   H I believe Java on the network wire is actually p-code (or byte-code, or F whatever you want to call it).  In the strictest sense, it is not the H source code, but the p-code that must be compatible in order for a java H program to run on different os's.  It's the purpose of the Java Virtual J Machine (jvm) to provide compatible run-time/interpretive environments on J each os for the p-code.  On many platforms, a Just In Time (jit) compiler I is provided that compiles (so to speak) java p-code to native executable gH code, thus increasing execution speed, and creating additional software * engineering jobs for compiler specialists.  G >This assumes, possibly incorrectly, that some feature or other of Java D >isn't completely incompatible with compilation.  For instance, self; >modifying code is pretty common in intrepreted languages. m  K Self-modifying code, then, would be code that modifies its own p-code, not @D its own source code, since the source code never visits the runtime H environment.  I don't know that java implementations supply support for  this.w   ws   --  3 << What if there were no hypothetical questions? >>V   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:29:31 +0100o' From: "Andy O" <oddster@totalise.co.uk> % Subject: Oracle online backups on VMSc) Message-ID: <39f01102$1@news.telinco.net>B  	 Dear all!t  J Having difficulty (or failing miserably) with my online backup strategy on Open VMS v.7.2.l  G I put my Oracle datafiles into backup mode, then run my backup commandse@ (having initialised and mounted my tape). The backup command is:  - $ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) -u/      disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, - /      disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -d/      disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -L.      disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -2       MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbak  B However, VMS seems to think that the files are locked and returns:  * Process started at 18-OCT-2000 23:00:17.88H Job FULL_HOT_BACKUP (queue DEVON_BACKUPS$BATCH, entry 436) holding until 25-OCT2 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, PSSBAK mounted on _DEVON$MKB300:J %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER2:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]RBS01.DBF;1 is open for write by another user L %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER3:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]INDEX01.DBF;1 is open for write by another usert ......etc... etc...e  K This is why I have used the 'Interlock' option within my Backup command andd. am running it as System, owner of the volumes.  # When I check the tape content with:i  $ backup/list mkb300:file.bck/save_set  % I get the listing of an old save set.h  * Can anyone help the uneducated Unix man!!!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:38:53 +0400f4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMSh4 Message-ID: <5010662947.20001020153853@ncc.volga.ru>  4 On 20.10.2000 Andy O <oddster@totalise.co.uk> wrote:   > Dear all!   L > Having difficulty (or failing miserably) with my online backup strategy on > Open VMS v.7.2.n  I > I put my Oracle datafiles into backup mode, then run my backup commands.B > (having initialised and mounted my tape). The backup command is:  / > $ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) - 1 >      disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -c1 >      disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, - 1 >      disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, - 0 >      disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -4 >       MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbak  D > However, VMS seems to think that the files are locked and returns:  , > Process started at 18-OCT-2000 23:00:17.88J > Job FULL_HOT_BACKUP (queue DEVON_BACKUPS$BATCH, entry 436) holding until > 25-OCT4 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, PSSBAK mounted on _DEVON$MKB300:L > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER2:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]RBS01.DBF;1 is open for > write by another userHN > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER3:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]INDEX01.DBF;1 is open for > write by another user- > ......etc... etc...0M > This is why I have used the 'Interlock' option within my Backup command andm0 > am running it as System, owner of the volumes.% > When I check the tape content with:6& > backup/list mkb300:file.bck/save_set' > I get the listing of an old save set.f, > Can anyone help the uneducated Unix man!!!  D   This message is not an error - it's warning (note -W- in the msg).A But your backup procedure doesn't appear to be perfect - you even,A didn't include /verify into backup command. Do you care about the F results of backup? Anyway VMS' backup isn't the best tool to save yourE database. You SHOULD use native backup tool for Oracle. Otherwise you 2 are at risk of corruption of your DB. At least youF could backup database with native tool to disk and only after that you5 could use VMS backup to move DB' backup file to tape.o   -- l   Valentin Likoumt   valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Oct 2000 12:42:27 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)t) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMSe! Message-ID: <1eI$xN$ZzaRS@ludens>o  S In article <39f01102$1@news.telinco.net>, "Andy O" <oddster@totalise.co.uk> writes:n > Dear all!  > L > Having difficulty (or failing miserably) with my online backup strategy on > Open VMS v.7.2.  > I > I put my Oracle datafiles into backup mode, then run my backup commands B > (having initialised and mounted my tape). The backup command is: > / > $ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) - 1 >      disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -n1 >      disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -l1 >      disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -d0 >      disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -4 >       MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbak   Hi,i  I   I extremly suggest that you do not make a backup with this way. Beacuse H   of if even the backup could make an copy of these files,  the oracle'sC   databases will not be in consistent state. When you restore filesaH   created by this way you can an inconsistent database and oracle engineB   will have to repair it. (If you use fast commit or same then the+   database reconstruct will be inpossible.)s  G   I suggest that use the oracle's own backup utility. (or sql export ?)h  E   I strongly suggest that you try restore files that you backed up...      > D > However, VMS seems to think that the files are locked and returns: > , > Process started at 18-OCT-2000 23:00:17.88J > Job FULL_HOT_BACKUP (queue DEVON_BACKUPS$BATCH, entry 436) holding until > 25-OCT4 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, PSSBAK mounted on _DEVON$MKB300:L > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER2:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]RBS01.DBF;1 is open for > write by another userj  F   I think the /ignore=interlock means the ACCONFLICT message is only aI   warning (-W-) not an error (-E-). The backup try to backs up this filesrC   but any disk blocks that oracle writes same time will not back upwE   correctly. Fot using the /ignore=interlock you must have the SysPrvt9   privilege. (or ownership of the volume, [1,4] uic, etc)e    , > Can anyone help the uneducated Unix man!!!    7   I see ``Unix Men'' can learn VMS fast and quickly :-)a     Adam Maulis    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:35:15 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)-) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMS 0 Message-ID: <8sp753$l0e$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  S In article <39f01102$1@news.telinco.net>, "Andy O" <oddster@totalise.co.uk> writes:aK >Having difficulty (or failing miserably) with my online backup strategy one >Open VMS v.7.2. >tH >I put my Oracle datafiles into backup mode, then run my backup commandsA >(having initialised and mounted my tape). The backup command is:c >(. >$ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) -0 >     disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -0 >     disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -0 >     disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -/ >     disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -p3 >      MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbake >nC >However, VMS seems to think that the files are locked and returns:m >.+ >Process started at 18-OCT-2000 23:00:17.88nI >Job FULL_HOT_BACKUP (queue DEVON_BACKUPS$BATCH, entry 436) holding untila >25-OCT 3 >%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, PSSBAK mounted on _DEVON$MKB300:SK >%BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER2:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]RBS01.DBF;1 is open fore >write by another userM >%BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER3:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]INDEX01.DBF;1 is open for5 >write by another user >.......etc... etc...r >bL >This is why I have used the 'Interlock' option within my Backup command and/ >am running it as System, owner of the volumes.i  O You will get the warnings even with the INTERLOCK option. But this doesn't meanpD Backup will not copy the file. Do you have a "SET NOON" command or aM "ON WARNING THEN CONTINUE" just before your BACKUP command? This will ensure MA that your procedure continues in case of a warning (or an error).e   Regards,    Christoph GartmannU  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:58:49 +0100"- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>l) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMSe) Message-ID: <39F02569.BC2B700B@bbc.co.uk>w  
 Andy O wrote:b   > Dear all!n >nL > Having difficulty (or failing miserably) with my online backup strategy on > Open VMS v.7.2.p >LI > I put my Oracle datafiles into backup mode, then run my backup commandsdB > (having initialised and mounted my tape). The backup command is: >s/ > $ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) -s1 >      disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -l1 >      disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -s1 >      disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -:0 >      disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -4 >       MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbak >hD > However, VMS seems to think that the files are locked and returns: > , > Process started at 18-OCT-2000 23:00:17.88J > Job FULL_HOT_BACKUP (queue DEVON_BACKUPS$BATCH, entry 436) holding until > 25-OCT4 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, PSSBAK mounted on _DEVON$MKB300:L > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER2:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]RBS01.DBF;1 is open for > write by another user N > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER3:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]INDEX01.DBF;1 is open for > write by another usera > ......etc... etc...c >a  P The files are open for write, but it is possible that nothing actually writes to  @ them during the backup if you proceed with /IGNORE_INTERLOCK. ToI find out if the files were modified during the backup specify the /VERIFYuM qualifier and look for messages of severity "-E-","-F-" ("-W-" is a warning).3  H To find which process(es) have the file open use the show device /fiules command, eg    SHOW DEVICE/FILES disk$user2   etc.  @ Whether you consider you have an acceptable backup if taken with /ignore=interlock N and files open for write errors is something between you and your application.     >pM > This is why I have used the 'Interlock' option within my Backup command and 0 > am running it as System, owner of the volumes. > % > When I check the tape content with:d >*& > backup/list mkb300:file.bck/save_set  ' > I get the listing of an old save set.. >a  L  dunno, did you unload then reload the tape between the backup and the read?P Try verify, that does make sure that whats on tape is the same as whats on disk,  5 and I don't consider it a backup unless its verified.e   >V, > Can anyone help the uneducated Unix man!!!   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukC  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofr MedAS or the BBC.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:27:27 -0400w" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMS ; Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001020071617.01f15d20@24.8.96.48>f  2 At 03:38 PM 10/20/00 +0400, Valentin Likoum wrote:5 >On 20.10.2000 Andy O <oddster@totalise.co.uk> wrote: N > > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER2:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]RBS01.DBF;1 is open for > > write by another userrH > > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER3:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]INDEX01.DBF;1 is 
 > open for > > write by another user? > > ......etc... etc...  > F >   This message is not an error - it's warning (note -W- in the msg).B >But your backup procedure doesn't appear to be perfect - you even, >didn't include /verify into backup command.  J And he likely wasn't properly trapping warnings, so the command procedure B terminated after the first backup that threw them. (Done that one)   >Do you care about theG >results of backup? Anyway VMS' backup isn't the best tool to save yourh8 >database. You SHOULD use native backup tool for Oracle.  I Yech. No, VMS' BACKUP is better for this task than Oracle's. It's faster .K and more reliable. ('Specially if you /VERIFY and leave CRCs and the group d@ codes on) As long as the database is quiescent you're just fine.  J Been there, done that, worked just fine. And a darned sight more pleasant ( to recover from when things do go wrong.   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunks   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:47:25 -0500 From: briggs@eisner.decus.org ) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMS + Message-ID: <WvAqsLdHegcd@eisner.decus.org>n  S In article <39f01102$1@news.telinco.net>, "Andy O" <oddster@totalise.co.uk> writes:n/ > $ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) -a1 >      disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -d1 >      disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -s1 >      disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -u0 >      disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -4 >       MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbak > D > However, VMS seems to think that the files are locked and returns: ... L > %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER2:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]RBS01.DBF;1 is open for > write by another user0  8 That's normal.  Note the warning ("-W-") severity level.  % > When I check the tape content with:  > & > backup/list mkb300:file.bck/save_set > ' > I get the listing of an old save set.[  E Strange.  You shouldn't see anything, listing at EOT without a rewind 
 like that.  H One thing I note from your backup command is that you may not be backingD up your control files and redo logs.  And it's not clear whether you* have the database set in archive log mode.  G I have a [pretty massive] backup script that we use here for hot OracleSD database backups.  Pure VMS backup.  E-mail me if you'd like a copy.  I This script has passed the "acid" test.  We've successfully restored fromlD hot backups in a production environment when failure would have beenA disastrous.  And we've successfully rolled forward from these hotnI backups using archived redo logs.  Point in time recovery is unbelievably 1 cool when everything works like it's supposed to.   % 	John Briggs		briggs@eisner.decus.org>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:54:46 -0400g0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMSl2 Message-ID: <4j3wOVXsH9xKtkDJ5gf4Ggcptir=@4ax.com>  B On 20 Oct 2000 12:42:27 +0200, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam) wrote:  T >In article <39f01102$1@news.telinco.net>, "Andy O" <oddster@totalise.co.uk> writes: >> Dear all! >> [M >> Having difficulty (or failing miserably) with my online backup strategy on- >> Open VMS v.7.2. >> eJ >> I put my Oracle datafiles into backup mode, then run my backup commandsC >> (having initialised and mounted my tape). The backup command is:t >> m0 >> $ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) -2 >>      disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -2 >>      disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -2 >>      disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -1 >>      disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -s5 >>       MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbakC >D >Hi, >:J >  I extremly suggest that you do not make a backup with this way. BeacuseI >  of if even the backup could make an copy of these files,  the oracle'snD >  databases will not be in consistent state. When you restore filesI >  created by this way you can an inconsistent database and oracle engineeC >  will have to repair it. (If you use fast commit or same then theo, >  database reconstruct will be inpossible.)  B Not quite.  Oracle has a command that sets the TABLESPACE (storageD group consisting of one or more data files) into BACKUP mode so thatD you can copy it while the database is up.  In fact, I worked with myD Oracle DBA at my previous job and we used DCL and SQL to dynamically< generate the SQL*Dba START BACKUP, DCL COPY, and SQL*Dba ENDA BACKUP commands.  We also did a test restore just to make sure ite would restore correctly.  D The one thing I would suggest is to not set the entire database into? backup mode.  If memory serves, the utilization of the rollbackm? segments increases dramatically while a tablespace is in BACKUPrE mode; in fact, you could run out of rollback segments if the databasecD is heavily used.  I would set one tablespace in BACKUP mode, copy itB to disk/tape, set that tablespace back to END BACKUP mode, then go on to the next tablespace.  C Another thing I would suggest is to periodically take some downtime=D and perform a cold backup, i.e. copy the files while the database is not up.-  @ However, for all this to work, you MUST be running in ARCHIVELOGA mode, and you need to be saving the archived redo logs.  You willeF need the archived redo logs to bring the database consistent after the files are restored.n   David R. Beattym   > H >  I suggest that use the oracle's own backup utility. (or sql export ?) > F >  I strongly suggest that you try restore files that you backed up... >e >  >> eE >> However, VMS seems to think that the files are locked and returns:  >> t- >> Process started at 18-OCT-2000 23:00:17.88eK >> Job FULL_HOT_BACKUP (queue DEVON_BACKUPS$BATCH, entry 436) holding untilC	 >> 25-OCT,5 >> %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, PSSBAK mounted on _DEVON$MKB300:IM >> %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK$USER2:[ORACLE.DB_ACCTST]RBS01.DBF;1 is open forr >> write by another user >-G >  I think the /ignore=interlock means the ACCONFLICT message is only amJ >  warning (-W-) not an error (-E-). The backup try to backs up this filesD >  but any disk blocks that oracle writes same time will not back upF >  correctly. Fot using the /ignore=interlock you must have the SysPrv: >  privilege. (or ownership of the volume, [1,4] uic, etc) >i > - >> Can anyone help the uneducated Unix man!!!s >x >i8 >  I see ``Unix Men'' can learn VMS fast and quickly :-) >i >i
 >Adam Maulis t   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 16:03:22 GMT8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMSo6 Message-ID: <8spqca$d6g$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  S In article <39f01102$1@news.telinco.net>, "Andy O" <oddster@totalise.co.uk> writes:.
 >Dear all! >nK >Having difficulty (or failing miserably) with my online backup strategy ona >Open VMS v.7.2. > H >I put my Oracle datafiles into backup mode, then run my backup commandsA >(having initialised and mounted my tape). The backup command is:m >s. >$ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) -0 >     disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -0 >     disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -0 >     disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -/ >     disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -a3 >      MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbakh >o ..  C Just about all database management systems provide their own backuplE utilities.  Back when DBMS and RDB were Digital producst, DBO and RDOoC (I think?) included backup commands.  The dbms's documentation will B explain WHY you should use these dbms backup utilities rather thanA OpenVMS backup.  The short explaination is that it is just about gB impossible to backup the database files as separate files and thenE to maintain database consistency and integrety when you restore them.eH Althoughit should be "possible" in theory, you _will_, almost certainly,+ mess it up.  Use the dbms's backup utility!t  E There is one exception I can think of.  If your ENTIRE database is on?H a single disk, then a BACKUP/IMAGE of that disk will probably be faster G than the dbms's backup utility.  However (1) this does not appear to be.H your situation, and (2) there may still be very real advantages to using the dbms's backup.   -- yK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA F          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:17:19 -040020 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>) Subject: Re: Oracle online backups on VMS 2 Message-ID: <jH3wOSdN9DZI+7C0k3PpMMBZbV0C@4ax.com>  F On 20 Oct 2000 16:03:22 GMT, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) wrote:    > T >In article <39f01102$1@news.telinco.net>, "Andy O" <oddster@totalise.co.uk> writes: >>Dear all!  >>L >>Having difficulty (or failing miserably) with my online backup strategy on >>Open VMS v.7.2.  >>I >>I put my Oracle datafiles into backup mode, then run my backup commands B >>(having initialised and mounted my tape). The backup command is: >>/ >>$ Backup/NoLog/Ignore=(Interlock, NoBackup) - 1 >>     disk$user2:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, - 1 >>     disk$user3:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, - 1 >>     disk$user4:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;*, -r0 >>     disk$user5:[Oracle.db_acctst...]*.dbf;* -4 >>      MKB300:File.BCK/Save_Set/Rewind/label=pssbak >> >..i >aD >Just about all database management systems provide their own backupF >utilities.  Back when DBMS and RDB were Digital producst, DBO and RDOD >(I think?) included backup commands.  The dbms's documentation willC >explain WHY you should use these dbms backup utilities rather than B >OpenVMS backup.  The short explaination is that it is just about C >impossible to backup the database files as separate files and thendF >to maintain database consistency and integrety when you restore them.I >Althoughit should be "possible" in theory, you _will_, almost certainly,t, >mess it up.  Use the dbms's backup utility! > F >There is one exception I can think of.  If your ENTIRE database is onI >a single disk, then a BACKUP/IMAGE of that disk will probably be faster aH >than the dbms's backup utility.  However (1) this does not appear to beI >your situation, and (2) there may still be very real advantages to usingl >the dbms's backup.   A Maybe so, but if you look in Oracle's documentation regarding hot  backups, they recommend:  .     1.	ALTER TABLESPACE ts_name START BACKUP ;/     2.	Copy using native tool (e.g. VMS BACKUP)*,     3.	ALTER TABLESPACE ts_name END BACKUP ;  E You can use EXPORT in Oracle if your database is not setup to perform  hot backups.   David R. Beatty*   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:45:45 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS, Message-ID: <39EFEA11.6F122C46@videotron.ca>   John Johnstone wrote: I > Here I go with a conspiracy theory, but it really seems as if Apple ande* > Adobe don't want DPS used anywhere else.  J No, the real conspiracy is Compaq wishing to prove that there is no demandJ from VMS workstations. By removing the goodies from workstations software,I many people will be forced to remain at their current version and will noiJ longer buy VMS upgrades. Them, the bean counters at Compaq will be able toK conclusively prove that there is no demand for VMS worlstations, and CompaqpG will then happily remove VMS workstation support, hoping customers willt< instead migrate to the less profitable Billy Gates desktops.  N If you're going to come up with a cosnpiracy theory, you might as well come up with a good one !t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:39:08 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <009F1DE8.E9500076@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <39EF853D.1D10CE5B@onay-amspay.mail.com>, John Johnstone <jj_usenet@onay-amspay.mail.com> writes: >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:i >> s >[snip]kK >> To use DPS will require that you use both pre-V7.3 and pre-V1.2-6.  EvenaM >> then, if it doesn't work - you are pretty much SOL.  We no longer have the K >> ability to get support from Adobe, or to obtain objects built debug fromnO >> them.  I've already had to close several bug reports with a "sorry, we can't  >> support or fix it". >eJ >Since leaving DPS in wouldn't leave us any worse off than we already are,L >does Compaq have any other reason for removing DPS?  I thought Adobe hasn'tH >given support to Compaq for DPS for quite a while.  It seems surprisingI >that the lack of support should be an issue now.  Is it just coincidenceuJ >that Apple is making such a big deal about MacOS X using DPS from Adobe? H >Here I go with a conspiracy theory, but it really seems as if Apple andF >Adobe don't want DPS used anywhere else.  If so, that's spectacularlyD >annoying since no one is really asking for or expecting there to be> >continued support of DPS in VMS, just leaving it in as it is. >bL >Has DPS been incorporated in any other X servers outside of Compaq?  If so,  >is DPS being yanked there also? >2K >I just realized earlier today that if DPS goes away, DECwrite's ability toaG >display linked-in EPS files goes away also.  That's a smaller hit than   G Yeap!  But if you rely on DECwrite, then it's a pretty nasty hit in theaH family jewels.  It'll be rather difficult to get that get-them-down-out-6 of-my-throat feeling to go away for some time to come.  I >losing CDA Viewer but it's still another pain in the butt.  Like so many/L >other things, since I'm using DECwrite on the cheap via the CSA license PAK3 >bundle, I guess that's just life in today's world.- >-H >I know that losing DPS is affecting only a small number of users but itK >really is a major loss.  I just remembered that DEC Document's Rags editorBJ >will stop working.  I'm sure it's not used all that often either but that >really stinks also.  G I really don't understand the reasoning and I surely don't believe thisFG claimed contractual obligation!  But, as VMS bigots, we've had to learnhH to live with disappointment after disappointment after disappointment inG our quest to remain faithful VMS bigots and I'm sure we will all suffer F through this waxing nostalgic of a time when we could do things on ourG VMS boxes without having to cower to using some second rate hardware oraF O/S which supports those things we all grew to know and love with VMS.F I wonder when DCL will go so we'll have to use some shitty PeeCee toolG to access, and manage, and program and utilize our VMS machines?  Don'tn blink!     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:51:09 GMTh= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <009F1DEA.9714B30B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <39EFEA11.6F122C46@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >John Johnstone wrote:J >> Here I go with a conspiracy theory, but it really seems as if Apple and+ >> Adobe don't want DPS used anywhere else., >eK >No, the real conspiracy is Compaq wishing to prove that there is no demandsK >from VMS workstations. By removing the goodies from workstations software, J >many people will be forced to remain at their current version and will noK >longer buy VMS upgrades. Them, the bean counters at Compaq will be able to7L >conclusively prove that there is no demand for VMS worlstations, and CompaqH >will then happily remove VMS workstation support, hoping customers will= >instead migrate to the less profitable Billy Gates desktops.1  J JF, see my prior post in this thread!  Just how many PeeCee toolz have we L presently "to access, and manage, and program and utilize our VMS machines?" Think about it!O  L I would say you are not a conspiracy theorist but more a soothsayer!  JuliusJ Caesar failed to heed the soothsayer, should we?  The problem with this isK that Compaq's PeeCees seem to be anything but the envy of the PeeCee realm.aI I'd say that this plan would only bolster the sales at their competition..K When KO failed to see the potential of a VMS box on the desktop, he allowed K SUN to get a step up.  The problem with that strategy is that the customerso( continued to climb the SUN stairsteps.      O >If you're going to come up with a cosnpiracy theory, you might as well come upc >with a good one !   "The truth is out there!"  t "Trust no one!"   3 Perhaps you could fill in for David Duchovny (sp?).i   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs            uO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Oct 2000 08:20:20 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)- Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <f4c$LUHg9oHA@eisner.decus.org>r  l In article <39EF853D.1D10CE5B@onay-amspay.mail.com>, John Johnstone <jj_usenet@onay-amspay.mail.com> writes:  I > given support to Compaq for DPS for quite a while.  It seems surprisingmJ > that the lack of support should be an issue now.  Is it just coincidenceK > that Apple is making such a big deal about MacOS X using DPS from Adobe? cI > Here I go with a conspiracy theory, but it really seems as if Apple and=* > Adobe don't want DPS used anywhere else.  E NEXT used DPS, but I was under the impression that MacOS X was making*F the switch to PDF.  Even for printers I had heard that Adobe no longerA wanted to license PostScript and was only willing to license PDF.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:28:04 +0100s  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <VA.0000010f.233f4f7e@sture.ch>   B In article <f4c$LUHg9oHA@eisner.decus.org>, Larry Kilgallen wrote:; > From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms/  > Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS" > Date: 20 Oct 2000 08:20:20 -0500 > n > In article <39EF853D.1D10CE5B@onay-amspay.mail.com>, John Johnstone <jj_usenet@onay-amspay.mail.com> writes: > K > > given support to Compaq for DPS for quite a while.  It seems surprisingtL > > that the lack of support should be an issue now.  Is it just coincidenceM > > that Apple is making such a big deal about MacOS X using DPS from Adobe?  K > > Here I go with a conspiracy theory, but it really seems as if Apple andt, > > Adobe don't want DPS used anywhere else. > G > NEXT used DPS, but I was under the impression that MacOS X was makingiH > the switch to PDF.  Even for printers I had heard that Adobe no longerC > wanted to license PostScript and was only willing to license PDF.o >wG Which might explain why the HP 2100M has a PostScript _emulator_ rathere than the real McCoy. - ___-
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:28:06 +0100a  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <VA.00000110.233f57f1@sture.ch>   T In article <009F1DE8.E9500076@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- Brian Schenkenberger wrote:   <snip>  tG  I wonder when DCL will go so we'll have to use some shitty PeeCee tool[I > to access, and manage, and program and utilize our VMS machines?  Don'ty	 > blink! e > K Shudder! But wait a minute. They already tried that with OpenVMS ManagementcP Station, and SWCC. The versions that I tried didn't even offer a print function!  O The former I can happily live without, but for some time SWCC has been the onlyeH officially supported method for talking to disk controllers. I have beenT managing meanwhile with HSZTERM, SET HOST/DUP and associated stuff, but I don't know+ how long these will continue to do the job.K  U Fortunately there does seem to have been a reversal of policy in this area. No longeraT are these utilities heavily pushed on the Q website, and I've heard reports from theR Munich bash earlier this year that a new CLI utility for managing disks is due out in Q4 2000.e  Y PS My spill chucker keeps suggesting that your name should be replaced by Shakespeare :-)i ___f
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:30:03 -0400r0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMSC Message-ID: <paul.r.anderson-1D5EE4.13300320102000@news.compaq.com>a  , In article <f4c$LUHg9oHA@eisner.decus.org>, : Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  G > Even for printers I had heard that Adobe no longer wanted to license m0 > PostScript and was only willing to license PDF  G There is certainly more attention being paid to PDF than PostScript at  G Adobe these days, but I hear they've backed off PDF in printers.  They tF can release new versions of Acrobat software quickly, but because the B development cycle of printers is so much longer, new PDF features 3 couldn't be incorporated quicky enough in printers.   @ In article <VA.0000010f.233f4f7e@sture.ch>, paul@sture.ch wrote:  C > Which might explain why the HP 2100M has a PostScript _emulator_ e > rather than the real McCoy.e  I No, vendors usually choose a PostScript clone (third-party PostScript is sH not really an emulator) to avoid the higher price of Adobe PostScript.  8 Of course, they usually wind up with a crappier printer.   Paul   -- r,    Paul Anderson, OpenVMS Engineering (DCPS),    Compaq Computer Corporation, Littleton MA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:50:39 -0200 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br  Subject: Re: PDF under OpenVMSL Message-ID: <OF3E80F170.8EB5890A-ON8325697E.006754F5@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  : I am surprised  with this discussion about PDF x PS  ! ! !  F I never worked with a PS printer in my life because at the companies I worked there wasnt any6 PS application (from VAX/VMS, OS/370,-390 PC etc ....)   Regards,   Fc.               A Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> em 20/10/2000 15:30:03BL                                                                             L                                                                             L                                                                                 >                                                               >                                                               >                                                               >  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                               >                                                               >  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)   >                                                               >                                                               >                                                               >  Assunto: Re: PDF under OpenVMS                               >                                                                             + In article <f4c$LUHg9oHA@eisner.decus.org>,s: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  F > Even for printers I had heard that Adobe no longer wanted to license0 > PostScript and was only willing to license PDF  F There is certainly more attention being paid to PDF than PostScript atF Adobe these days, but I hear they've backed off PDF in printers.  TheyE can release new versions of Acrobat software quickly, but because theeA development cycle of printers is so much longer, new PDF featuress3 couldn't be incorporated quicky enough in printers.   @ In article <VA.0000010f.233f4f7e@sture.ch>, paul@sture.ch wrote:  B > Which might explain why the HP 2100M has a PostScript _emulator_ > rather than the real McCoy.i  H No, vendors usually choose a PostScript clone (third-party PostScript isF not really an emulator) to avoid the higher price of Adobe PostScript.8 Of course, they usually wind up with a crappier printer.   Paul   --,    Paul Anderson, OpenVMS Engineering (DCPS),    Compaq Computer Corporation, Littleton MA   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:51:08 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>o4 Subject: Re: Reading and writing files via $QIO in CH Message-ID: <y41yxclzmb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  $ Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:  G > In this case I need readvblk-level stuff, I think. What I'm doing is  L > writing a multicast FTP setup--I need the target files to be identical to N > the source, and I need as much speed as I can muster. (Assuming the gigabit K > ethernet drivers are up to snuff in 7.2-1, the network isn't the slowest e > part of the equation)1  G - Let RMS do the $OPEN and allocation etc for you. Specify at least CBTaM   (contiguous best try), or even try with contiguous first and be prepared to L   handle the failure. Tell RMS to UFO (user file open) and pick the channel G   from the STV field (that part is all documented - look at the info ono   $CRMPSC).   I - Now you can do direct virtual I/O to the file. At the very least, do it)N   asynchronously, writing one set of blocks to disk while reading the next setM   from the network (double buffering). Piece of cake using ASTs, but you mustn3   use IOSBs. I'm sure Hoff has an example for that.a  L   Other alternative: use FAST I/O - this really is _the_ application for the   purpose.    N - Do some experiments with different buffer sizes on different disks, on largeE   and smallish files, to get a feel for the right parameter settings.-   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:04:21 +0400l4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>, Subject: Re[2]: Oracle online backups on VMS4 Message-ID: <8115791903.20001020170421@ncc.volga.ru>  1 On 20.10.2000 Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> wrote:W   [snip] >>Do you care about the H >>results of backup? Anyway VMS' backup isn't the best tool to save your9 >>database. You SHOULD use native backup tool for Oracle.a  K > Yech. No, VMS' BACKUP is better for this task than Oracle's. It's faster nM > and more reliable. ('Specially if you /VERIFY and leave CRCs and the group oB > codes on) As long as the database is quiescent you're just fine.  L > Been there, done that, worked just fine. And a darned sight more pleasant * > to recover from when things do go wrong.  D   But native tool often has (not sure with Oracle, but it's true forD Oracle RDB) capability to partial recovery of corrupted pages only -D the task you can't perform with plain VMS backup. Much more featuresC could be mentioned. How about brave guy who broke through the wallso@ you've built around your backup procedure and started read-writeD transaction or even read-only transaction (can update certain fields= in database root)? I bet that this guy will occur just beforesC hardware fault leaving you with corrupted database and inconsistent- backup.-   -- -   Valentin Likoum,   valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:35:30 -0400S" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>, Subject: Re[2]: Oracle online backups on VMS; Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001020082911.01f289e0@24.8.96.48>   2 At 05:04 PM 10/20/00 +0400, Valentin Likoum wrote:2 >On 20.10.2000 Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> wrote: >h >[snip]  > >>Do you care about thenJ > >>results of backup? Anyway VMS' backup isn't the best tool to save your; > >>database. You SHOULD use native backup tool for Oracle.r >yL > > Yech. No, VMS' BACKUP is better for this task than Oracle's. It's fasterN > > and more reliable. ('Specially if you /VERIFY and leave CRCs and the groupD > > codes on) As long as the database is quiescent you're just fine. >tM > > Been there, done that, worked just fine. And a darned sight more pleasantt, > > to recover from when things do go wrong. > F >   But native tool often has (not sure with Oracle, but it's true forE >Oracle RDB) capability to partial recovery of corrupted pages only -e2 >the task you can't perform with plain VMS backup.  L I've not found that to be an issue, and even if it was, it wouldn't matter. L If I found corrupt pages in a data file, I'd trash the whole thing, restore 4 from backups, and roll forward from my archive logs.  K I do *not* trust partial restores of pages found to be geeked. If one page dI is trash, odds are quite a few others are as well. Assuming otherwise is t begging for disaster.e   >Much more featuresbD >could be mentioned. How about brave guy who broke through the wallsA >you've built around your backup procedure and started read-writeaE >transaction or even read-only transaction (can update certain fields > >in database root)? I bet that this guy will occur just beforeD >hardware fault leaving you with corrupted database and inconsistent >backup.  I That guy would need to have serious privs to do so, since the data files  L (or entire database, depending on what's being done) are unavailable during J their backup. (I generally shut down the entire instance for this sort of I thing, but that's not always an option for people) I never have too many nI people with that sort of power, and if they do geek things up badly they p" get tracked down and beaten. Hard.   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------f2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and event;                                       teddy bears get drunka   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:38:52 +0400s4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>, Subject: Re[3]: Oracle online backups on VMS5 Message-ID: <18721463634.20001020183852@ncc.volga.ru>   1 On 20.10.2000 Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> wrote:L  4 > At 05:04 PM 10/20/00 +0400, Valentin Likoum wrote:3 >>On 20.10.2000 Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> wrote:t >> >>[snip] >> >>Do you care about theK >> >>results of backup? Anyway VMS' backup isn't the best tool to save yourl< >> >>database. You SHOULD use native backup tool for Oracle. >>M >> > Yech. No, VMS' BACKUP is better for this task than Oracle's. It's fastertO >> > and more reliable. ('Specially if you /VERIFY and leave CRCs and the groupnE >> > codes on) As long as the database is quiescent you're just fine.w >>N >> > Been there, done that, worked just fine. And a darned sight more pleasant- >> > to recover from when things do go wrong.t >>G >>   But native tool often has (not sure with Oracle, but it's true forhF >>Oracle RDB) capability to partial recovery of corrupted pages only -3 >>the task you can't perform with plain VMS backup.o  N > I've not found that to be an issue, and even if it was, it wouldn't matter. N > If I found corrupt pages in a data file, I'd trash the whole thing, restore 6 > from backups, and roll forward from my archive logs.  J OK. I see. Our setup is quite different from yours. Merely I was impressedC with the case when one of members of RAID-1 array failed and caused G corruption of one of the pages in DB. Fortunately it occured in big but G moderately used archive table. We changed the failed disk and recoveredeH corrupted page to consistent state in 1 hour, 59 minutes of that I spentF reading manuals and checking again and again my commands (shame on me,? I didn't have appropriate procedures by this time). Our clientst? havn't noticed anything - processing was continuing as usually.   M > I do *not* trust partial restores of pages found to be geeked. If one page sK > is trash, odds are quite a few others are as well. Assuming otherwise is t > begging for disaster.d  E You do not need to trust. You could verify database (with native toolt= again) and check it. And you can choose whether to do full orh( partial recovery, but you _can_choose_ .   >>Much more featuresE >>could be mentioned. How about brave guy who broke through the wallsnB >>you've built around your backup procedure and started read-writeF >>transaction or even read-only transaction (can update certain fields? >>in database root)? I bet that this guy will occur just before E >>hardware fault leaving you with corrupted database and inconsistentn	 >>backup.   K > That guy would need to have serious privs to do so, since the data files eN > (or entire database, depending on what's being done) are unavailable during L > their backup. (I generally shut down the entire instance for this sort of K > thing, but that's not always an option for people) I never have too many iK > people with that sort of power, and if they do geek things up badly they o$ > get tracked down and beaten. Hard.  C I realize that you can enjoy from this procedure of punishment, butN your data can't. ;-)))   -- g   Valentin Likoumh   valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:26:28 -0700t. From: Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> Subject: Script Under Systartup ( Message-ID: <39F07234.B3484EC5@vmmc.org>  F I'm going to be calling a DCL script from within SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM viaF "@script-name".  The script needs to know that it is being run at boot@ time.  What can I include in the script for it to check for this condition?  Thanks.s   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Oct 2000 13:55:10 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)C# Subject: Re: Script Under Systartupt+ Message-ID: <1MB78799PN+i@eisner.decus.org>   Y In article <39F07234.B3484EC5@vmmc.org>, Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> writes: H > I'm going to be calling a DCL script from within SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM viaH > "@script-name".  The script needs to know that it is being run at bootB > time.  What can I include in the script for it to check for this > condition?  Thanks.e  
 Process name.    Translation of SYS$COMMAND.r   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 17:31:44 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: Script Under Systartupi6 Message-ID: <8spvi0$ebn$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  Y In article <39F07234.B3484EC5@vmmc.org>, Jack Trachtman <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> writes:FG :I'm going to be calling a DCL script from within SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM viaeG :"@script-name".  The script needs to know that it is being run at booteA :time.  What can I include in the script for it to check for this. :condition?  Thanks.  G   First question: Why?  What particular difference(s) are required, andFJ   why?  With some background -- rather than a literal answer to a specific9   question -- we might be able to provide an alternative.o  H   The usual approach is via checking the process name (which I would notG   tend to prefer), or via separation into a tool_startup.com and one or @   more other procedures, or via something such as the following:  1   $ @sys$startup:script-name CookieUsedOnlyAtBoot   I   When script-name.com (and a script more commonly called a DCL procedureIJ   on OpenVMS, BTW) sees the P1 parameter is CookieUsedOnlyAtBoot, then it /   knows that it should select the startup path.   J   But with some background, we might be able to provide a better approach,   or other alternatives...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:27:15 +0200V= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com><' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laughera) Message-ID: <39F00FF3.4832311B@gtech.com>t   Shawn Brown wrote:- > In article <MYnw451i3kbz@eisner.decus.org>,t- > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote:uN > >The only thing that really matters is uptime.  Only bring it down a handfulN > >of times in a year?  How about staying up a couple years?  Foreign concept?H > >Better yet.... how about designing and selling machines that can stay > >up more than a month!!! > 
 > Nice troll.n > F > I've had production sun boxes with two year uptimes.  I think that'sJ > actually negligent on my part, since I wasn't patching for the duration. > M > It's routine for our production sun boxes to have one or two month uptimes.r5 > Not much more than that because we patch quarterly.r  @ Not a troll - just the entire VMS community rolling on the floor	 laughing,eE because the SUN CEO say that it is SUN's goal to only have a handfulli of downtime during a year.  ( That is lower ambitions than MicroSoft !  - (but probably with better chances of success)b  H And I do know that SUN sites do a lot of patching, which for some reason$ are much more rare in the VMS world.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:24:56 -0200d) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br5' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laughernL Message-ID: <OF90164F44.743FB086-ON8325697E.003E9909@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  F SUN patches ????  Just a few, but of course 10 times more than OpenVMS  @ You dont imagine what is HP-UX !!!!  50 times more than OpenVMS.   FC.F                  = Arne Vajh=F8j <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> em 20/10/2000 07:27:15bH                                                                        =     =20eH                                                                        =     =20tH                                                                        =     =20     @                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                              =20@                                                              =20@  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)  =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Assunto: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laugher                     =20@                                                              =20           =r     Shawn Brown wrote:- > In article <MYnw451i3kbz@eisner.decus.org>, - > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote:sF > >The only thing that really matters is uptime.  Only bring it down a handful)E > >of times in a year?  How about staying up a couple years?  Foreigna concept?H > >Better yet.... how about designing and selling machines that can sta= y  > >up more than a month!!! > 
 > Nice troll.  > F > I've had production sun boxes with two year uptimes.  I think that'sH > actually negligent on my part, since I wasn't patching for the durati= on.  > D > It's routine for our production sun boxes to have one or two month uptimes.5 > Not much more than that because we patch quarterly.   @ Not a troll - just the entire VMS community rolling on the floor	 laughing, E because the SUN CEO say that it is SUN's goal to only have a handfull  of downtime during a year.  ( That is lower ambitions than MicroSoft !  - (but probably with better chances of success)   H And I do know that SUN sites do a lot of patching, which for some reaso= n $ are much more rare in the VMS world.   Arne       =    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:53:13 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>' Subject: Re: Sun "uptime" belly laughero* Message-ID: <39F06A69.C6FE3B6F@uk.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > =n   > Shawn Brown wrote:/ > > In article <MYnw451i3kbz@eisner.decus.org>,o/ > > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote:cJ > > >The only thing that really matters is uptime.  Only bring it down a = handfuldJ > > >of times in a year?  How about staying up a couple years?  Foreign c= oncept? J > > >Better yet.... how about designing and selling machines that can sta= yi > > >up more than a month!!! > >a > > Nice troll.b > >oH > > I've had production sun boxes with two year uptimes.  I think that'sJ > > actually negligent on my part, since I wasn't patching for the durati= on.s > >pJ > > It's routine for our production sun boxes to have one or two month up= times.7 > > Not much more than that because we patch quarterly.t > =o  B > Not a troll - just the entire VMS community rolling on the floor > laughing,aG > because the SUN CEO say that it is SUN's goal to only have a handfullD > of downtime during a year. > =n  * > That is lower ambitions than MicroSoft ! > =   / > (but probably with better chances of success)g > =j  J > And I do know that SUN sites do a lot of patching, which for some reaso= ng& > are much more rare in the VMS world. > =.     Arne  = You need to read more of this newsgroup than just the threads.# where people are trying to FUD Sun.   ; If you had you would have realised the just at the moment =   9 any discussion relating to patches is not going to be a =t  % painless one for an OpenVMS advocate.d  = I refer you if you hadn't been following it to the discussionu@ on this thread about Compaq OpenVMS patch quality (or otherwise) and the war stories. =    B I particularly liked the duff patch which didn't cause the clusterC to crash but did require 1500 users to get kicked off the system tot! escape from its deadly embrace. =t    G I think thats what the military call an acceptable level of casualties.   : Seems to me that Sun "uptime" belly laughs could easily be> applied to OpenVMS as well. And that Rob's FUD could equally =  $ be described as OpenVMS botty burps.  G BTW the tread is called "Anybody else having bugchecks after installingb recent patches?"7 which is pretty difficult to miss though I assume you =o  9 must have from your confident attempt to FUD Sun's with =   = some kind of OpenVMS/Sun relative number of patches argument.   < P.S This isn't an attempt to compare OpenVMS and Sun patch =  < quality just a suggestion that you are ill advised to fall =  9 into the normal OpenVMS advocate trap of throwing rocks =-   in your own glass house.     Regardsl Andrew HarrisonL Enterprise IT Architectc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:02:55 -02007) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br.' Subject: This list participants profileeL Message-ID: <OF9FD5D7D0.49531D66-ON8325697E.0062B6D8@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  : --0__=8325697E0062B6D88f9e8a93df938690918c8325697E0062B6D8* Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii  F Just to inform I accounted the ages and experience of all people here. Some didnt inform the age :-)  only the experience . . .a   Below are  the results:    Ages  of the OVMS people:i  , (Embedded image moved to file: pic00041.pcx)   Total                       53   Experience in years with OVMS:    , (Embedded image moved to file: pic18467.pcx)   Total                      56l       Regards,   FC: --0__=8325697E0062B6D88f9e8a93df938690918c8325697E0062B6D8( Content-type: application/octet-stream;  	name="pic00041.pcx"8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic00041.pcx"! Content-transfer-encoding: 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 wAD/wED/wID/wP///wD//0D//4D///8=  < --0__=8325697E0062B6D88f9e8a93df938690918c8325697E0062B6D8--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:54:20 +0200h% From: "Kirk Acid" <kirk.acid@lion.cc>h! Subject: User Guide for Vax (VMS) . Message-ID: <8splrm$st8$1@newstoo.ericsson.se>   Halloe  J Im quite new in VAX and VMS, we have a very old DEC Microvax 2000 but now Documentation.  < Is there any Page where i could get a User-Guide for it ????   Thanks, Andreas Safranek   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 15:34:36 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: Re: User Guide for Vax (VMS)d6 Message-ID: <8spomc$d37$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  V In article <8splrm$st8$1@newstoo.ericsson.se>, "Kirk Acid" <kirk.acid@lion.cc> writes:K :I'm quite new in VAX and VMS, we have a very old DEC Microvax 2000 but nowa :Documentation.- :-= :Is there any Page where i could get a User-Guide for it ????0  F   The OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) is available at various   sites, including at:       www.openvms.compaq.com  H   The FAQ has answers to common questions, as well as pointers to a wideH   variety of web sites, and pointers to the web-based documentation set.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:57:29 +0200o; From: "Andreas Safranek" <andreas.safranek@sea.ericsson.se>t% Subject: Re: User Guide for Vax (VMS) . Message-ID: <8spt2k$bjn$1@newstoo.ericsson.se>  I Thanks for your quick answer!  I know this site but i would need a manualoK that discribes, for example, how to change the ip-address, how to add a newa0 user, where do i find binary-files, and so on...  I I dont wanne order a cd, or users guide, isnt that available on the weba ???t   Thanks, Andreas Safranek      K Hoff Hoffman wrote in message <8spomc$d37$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>...t > ; >In article <8splrm$st8$1@newstoo.ericsson.se>, "Kirk Acid"k <kirk.acid@lion.cc> writes:fL >:I'm quite new in VAX and VMS, we have a very old DEC Microvax 2000 but now >:Documentation. >:> >:Is there any Page where i could get a User-Guide for it ???? >_G >  The OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) is available at various  >  sites, including at:4 >0 >    www.openvms.compaq.comp >oI >  The FAQ has answers to common questions, as well as pointers to a widehI >  variety of web sites, and pointers to the web-based documentation set.M > + > --------------------------- pure personal.# opinion ---------------------------70 >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 17:27:31 GMT& From: brown@taiga.gmcl.com (Rob Brown)% Subject: Re: User Guide for Vax (VMS) . Message-ID: <8spva3$b0k$1@dagger.ab.videon.ca>  : Andreas Safranek (andreas.safranek@sea.ericsson.se) wrote:  K : I dont wanne order a cd, or users guide, isnt that available on the web   M : Hoff Hoffman wrote in message <8spomc$d37$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>... K : >  variety of web sites, and pointers to the web-based documentation set. J                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   Is this what you wanted?     -- --  / Rob Brown                        brown@gmcl.com 6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-2101 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)1                                  http://gmcl.com/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:07:06 -07000$ From: Bruce Lane <spammers@buzz.off>/ Subject: Re: using RA82 HDA w/RA81 electronics? 8 Message-ID: <MPG.1459ff77f0c4172f989683@news.uswest.net>  I In article <8skgb2$l4s$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>, bdwheele@indiana.edu   says...a  J > I know they're different geometries, but since the RA82 HDA is bigger, IL > was hoping the RA81 would think it was an RA81 HDA installed...it wouldn't8 > be a bad thing if it only used 450M of the RA82 HDA... >  > Any thoughts?o  B 	It -might- work. If you're just futzing around, you don't have a H lot to lose by trying. I will say that I've been able to resurrect some I small SCSI drives with good HDA/bad electronics by swapping in the board a0 from a good electronics/bad HDA IDENTICAL model.  A 	Example: I once had a Diff-SCSI 1 gig Fujitsu drive with a good  J HDA, but the I/F was toast. I swapped in a board from the SAME MODEL, but J single-ended SCSI Fuji drive, re-LLF'd the thing, and it's done just fine  ever since.h   	YMMV. Be careful!   -- o( Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy,; Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.coml> kyrrin (a=t) bluefeathertech [d..o..t] com (Reassemble to use)B "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be  superior6 to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:40:21 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com># Subject: Re: v7.2 multipath supportu+ Message-ID: <39F02F25.E110432A@rtfmcsi.com>    Cameron Crofts wrote:   L > We are intending to upgrade to V7.2-1 so that we can use multipath on both > HSZ70 and HSG80 controllers. >gL > We've heard that V7.2 multipath support breaks some layered products (bothJ > compaq & 3rd party) - especially those that intercept the disk start i/oG > routine, since this can change dynamically when a path switch occurs.s > 1 > Is anyone aware of a list of effected products?c >g > Cheers >t	 > Cameron   M Off hand, Executve Software's IOExpress and Advanced Systems Concepts' (ASCI)iM Shadow products would be affected.  I know from personal experience that both B of these products intercept the start I/O address in the DUDRIVER.     -- Chuck ChoppU  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 400 4935 pagerC                                   8004004935@alphapage.airtouch.comd   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 13:13:21 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)v Subject: Re: VAX emulatorm, Message-ID: <8spgdh$21ts$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <39EFB48A.7370BD0F@earthlink.net>,p:  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: |> o- |> Can stuff be ported from Linux to Solaris?p  E Probably, but it would take a real masochist to give up the sufferinglG of being a Linux user just to become a Soalris user.  Talk about takingd a giant step backwards!!!k   bill   -- yJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:33:24 +0200A0 From: Robert Boers <robert.boers@softresint.com> Subject: Re: VAX emulatore. Message-ID: <39F057B4.2A34F83E@softresint.com>  7 Yes, we could do one. Would there be a lot of interest?   A By the way, there is a Proof of Concept version of CHARON-VAX for.1 OpenVMS/Alpha on our website: www.vaxemulator.comp   Regards, Robert Boers   Didier Morandi wrote:l   > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >n! > > Just in case you missed this.w > >oE > > VAX Emulator Family Announced by Software Resources Internationale >i# > CHARON PC ? When a CHARON MacOS ?- >- > D.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Oct 2000 11:51 -0400- From: hein@eps.zko.eps.c*m& Subject: Re: VBN Error in Indexed File& Message-ID: <20OCT200011513653@miasys>  ` In article <20001017170013.13269.00000178@ng-md1.aol.com>, briannfo@aol.com (BrianNFO) writes...  G >I found another indexed file this week that has the following error...eE >***  VBN 429236:  Data record spills over into free space of bucket.n6 >Unrecoverable error encountered in structure of file.  H This generally indicates a partial bucket corruption where RMS followingE record length fields stumbles into a random large value (often text). E Or is stumbles into random data when looking for a compression count.   M >I can't convert it without getting an error, and going to a backup from last0N >week would be extremely painful because of the updates made to the file sinceD >then.  (applications using the file seem to be fine, oddly enough.)  7 A convert uses a sequential read over all data buckets.AF Your application may well fo indexed reads to a subset of the buckets.> Eventually the application will also hit on the back bucket(s)  4 >If anyone has an idea, please let me know...thanks.  J I have send Brian the handouts of my recent CETS2000 'patching RMS indexed6 files' session. That should give him a starting point.  F What he probably will need to do is to reset the 'next free byte' wordB in the bucket header for the corrupted bucket to point just beyond3 the last valid record. He'll be using commands likew9 ANAL/RMS/INT ... POSI/BUCK 429236 ... DOWN (into records) = .. NEXT 999 (start reading all... kaboom expected) ... BACK 1/  B This will tell him what to fix. He will have to find a disk block D editor, or my ZAP tool form the VMS freeware rms_tools or a dcl hack to perform the actual magic.  
 Good luck! 	Hein.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:36:06 +0100/0 From: Robert Taylor <taylor_robert@jpmorgan.com> Subject: Re: VMS C Compilerw, Message-ID: <39F01206.E2C0EEFA@jpmorgan.com>  J For whats its worth heres the code. I needed it quickly so no sub-routinesE or anything. If anyone feels like taking up the task I thought futureP enhancements could be :w  ! A) Allowing a specified delimiter/J B) Allowing ignored columns to be of variable length and thus different in each file being scanned./ C) Allowing more than one column to be ignored.P  H I know this isn't a C group but it might be of use to somebody. I'm done with it for now.   #include <stdio.h> #include <string.h>A #include <ctype.h> #include <stdlib.h>/  2 /* Compare 2 CSV files, ignoring specified columns */  " main(   int argc,   char *argv[] ) {/     char file1_rec  [1024];M     char file2_rec  [1024];/     FILE *Fp1 = 0;     FILE *Fp2 = 0;       int current_col = 1;     int idx = 0;     int line_num = 0;v     long ignore_col;       if ( argc != 4 )     {gK         printf("Usage : CSV_COMPARE FILENAME1 FILENAME2 COLUMN_TO_IGNORE");/       }C     else     {M#         ignore_col = atoi(argv[3]);/  C         printf("File1 : %s\nFile2 %s\nIgnore Column %s\n", argv[1],/ argv[2], argv[3] );f,         printf("-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\n");  #         /* Open file1 and file 2 */w!         Fp1 = fopen(argv[1],"r");P!         Fp2 = fopen(argv[2],"r");/           do{/                 /*J                 Test if EOF FILE1 has been reached, further if it has test that FILE2 has)                 been completely read alsoE                 */<                 if (!fgets(file1_rec,sizeof(file1_rec),Fp1))                 {/E                         printf("End of file1 detected - quitting\n");MC                         if (fgets(file2_rec,sizeof(file2_rec),Fp2))A                         {CD                                 printf("Warning FILE2 still has more	 data\n");M                         }A                         break;                 }A                   /*2                 Test if EOF FILE2 has been reached                 */<                 if (!fgets(file2_rec,sizeof(file2_rec),Fp2))                 {ME                         printf("End of file1 detected - quitting\n");AI                         printf("This means FILE1 wasn't completely read -P
 ERROR\n");                         break;                 }G                    current_col = 1;                 ++line_num;PJ                 /* So we have a record from each file, now compare content */E                 for ( idx = 0; idx <= (strlen(file1_rec)-1); ++idx ){A5                         if ( file1_rec[idx] == ',' ){/.                                 ++current_col;                         }w                         else{0>                                 if ( current_col != ignore_colH                                    && file1_rec[idx] != file2_rec[idx] )!                                 {tK                                         printf ("Mismatch Line %d , char %dl \n", line_num, idx);J                                         printf ("*FILE1* %s", file1_rec );J                                         printf ("*FILE2* %s", file2_rec );.                                         break;!                                 }f                         }8                 }/             } while (1);    %         /* Close file 1 and file 1 *//         fclose(Fp1);         fclose(Fp2);     }/  
     return 0;v }    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:22:32 GMTv% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)/  Subject: Re: VMSINSTALL Question1 Message-ID: <39f00c22.929701910@news.newsguy.com>/  F On 19 Oct 2000 18:57:44 GMT, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) wrote:/   >/N >In article <OF6AF87170.620CCB9B-ON8325697D.00572692@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, , >fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:K >>Is there a document / internet link describing how to develop a "script" /D >>or similar to install an application under OVMS using VMSINSTAL?. G >>We have a lot of in-house developed applications and some of them theP" >>installation process is complex. >PF >The order number on my {ahem} 1986 copy of the "Developer's Guide to D >VMSINSTAL" is AA-HB12A-TE.  Obviosly, that is out of date, but that2 >muber should get you to the current order number.  = There use to be a VMSINSTAL.HLP Help library source file that8D documented everything. I know it shipped  as part of the VMS toolkitF that was included with Unigraphics on VMS but that was 10 years ago. IB asked once before if anyone had a copy or knew where it originally came from but got no responses./   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:55:12 -0400/, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>  Subject: Re: VMSINSTALL Question> Message-ID: <hshubs-D61E6E.08551220102000@news.mindspring.com>  K In article <39f00c22.929701910@news.newsguy.com>, A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan w
 Greig) wrote:g  > >There use to be a VMSINSTAL.HLP Help library source file thatE >documented everything. I know it shipped  as part of the VMS toolkit/G >that was included with Unigraphics on VMS but that was 10 years ago. IJC >asked once before if anyone had a copy or knew where it originallyC  >came from but got no responses.  O Currently, the Developers guide to VMSINSTAL is on the Documentation CD-ROMs.  /- I believe it's under "retired" or "obsolete".v -- E Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:31:04 +0000 (UTC)/' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi>AL Subject: Re: What would be your ultimate dream VMS machine (desktop/tower) ?, Message-ID: <8spdu8$4cs$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  1 Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> wrote:PG >         It would be more correct to say that PCs can use Compaq AlphaE4 > parts.  PC parts do not always work in the Alphas.  A And Compaq Alpha parts are selected PC parts possibly with littleg? modifications in microcode or something. Those mod's may be forAI improving some functions and/or protecting Compaq sales. Acceptable both,II but information which, if any, modifications are made should be availableg
 to customers.g  I >         One counter example should be sufficient!  The Quantum FireballAJ > SCSI disks do not implement or do not correctly implement tagged commandL > queuing.  (If I ever knew which, I don't recall it.) People have connectedM > these disks to VMS Systems and lost data because of this.  We know now thatgM > these disks are not reliable, only because people bought them used them andAJ > lost their data!  They work well enough on PCs running Windows, which do! > not use tagged command queuing.P  D If destruction of file system can continue months unnoticed makes meF wonder, is there everything okay with application, VMS, procedures...   / How about unix'es, they use tagged queuing too.,  K >         Compaq has no motive to qualify components that they do not sell!U  D Thats okay, but there could be good motive if Compaq understands how! important low end Alpha level is.a  VK > The parts that they do sell are not always identical to the cheaper partsa > available from third parties.G  G >         I earn my living working with small to medium size Alphas and-J > delivering 99+% uptime during working hours.  No one really cares that IH > spend $800 on a supported SCSI host adapter instead of $200 on a thirdL > party part.  The difference is a microscopic percentage of the millions ofE > dollars that depend on our systems working reliably!  Without thosenH > computers we are almost litterally forced to use quill pens and ledgerL > books.  We can book orders with pencil and paper for a few minutes but theL > cost of doing so and keying them into the system later would pay for a lotK > of hardware.   Call it $2000 per hour for down time; I have 15 minutes ofi( > unscheduled downtime so far this year!  I I exactly agreed that already. I'd never put unqualified/untested devices- to critical applications.e  H >         You can put anything you like on your machines; I'll spend theB > extra dollars for the stuff that works all the time, every time.  I Yes, my budget for OpenVMS hardware is US$285 per year. We have different"H models of SCSI disks from most of manufacturers. There happens to be oneC FIREBALL_TM2110S in our cluster. Model TM3200S has reported to have I problem with tagged queing. As far as I remember every disk has worked as % expected. (ageing crashes of course).sI We are university. No one dies or goes bankrupt if our files get damaged. H (We have daily backups and at least mothly backups are kept forever, one' copy in safe two miles away from here.)o  G Now, I guess we agree everything but one detail. You don't care whether G there are cheap Alphas or not. I think it's a must that there are cheapcG OpenVMS Alphas (or cheap OpenVMS computers with any processor). If not,DJ then VMS will continue to disappear everywhere and then future of Alpha is in danger too.  C There were the days when VMS was popular. We could order disks from J third party and ask disks with VMS settings. They did needed modificationsF to mode pages and delivered. I guess if that is tried nowadays they'll reply: "What? What is VMS?"o  E If we get VMS popular again, then there would be more knowledge about-F which parts work with it. Then there would be better chances that diskF salesman refuses to sell you TM3200S for VMS... (Well, this is kind ofH hypothetical, PC salesman probably wouldn't know or care a bit of tagged SCSI command queueing.)g   regards(         Osmo KujalaR   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:33:07 -0700>& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>L Subject: Re: What would be your ultimate dream VMS machine (desktop/tower) ?4 Message-ID: <lu_H5.7326$Wq1.4269992@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>  2 On the tagged queueing and Quantum Fireball disks.  H It is possible to set the SCSI control page flag on the drives using the SCSI_MODE program inH SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.UNSUPPORTED] to show the device as having the featureJ disabled.  This allows those drives to be used safely on VMS.  I have been using them forI years and had experienced the problem.  After setting the control page to) show tagged queueing  disabled, my problems went away.     Just my opinion,   rick...-    4 "Osmo Kujala" <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> wrote in message& news:8spdu8$4cs$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi...3 > Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> wrote:DI > >         It would be more correct to say that PCs can use Compaq Alphaf6 > > parts.  PC parts do not always work in the Alphas. > C > And Compaq Alpha parts are selected PC parts possibly with littlegA > modifications in microcode or something. Those mod's may be forlK > improving some functions and/or protecting Compaq sales. Acceptable both, K > but information which, if any, modifications are made should be availablen > to customers.o >sK > >         One counter example should be sufficient!  The Quantum FireballiL > > SCSI disks do not implement or do not correctly implement tagged commandD > > queuing.  (If I ever knew which, I don't recall it.) People have	 connecteduJ > > these disks to VMS Systems and lost data because of this.  We know now thatK > > these disks are not reliable, only because people bought them used themn andtL > > lost their data!  They work well enough on PCs running Windows, which do# > > not use tagged command queuing.g > F > If destruction of file system can continue months unnoticed makes meG > wonder, is there everything okay with application, VMS, procedures...  >t1 > How about unix'es, they use tagged queuing too.( >i >g   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:11:15 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: X Desktop+ Message-ID: <VnPRIEmUSYEC@eisner.decus.org>s  ^ In article <39EEEDA8.218B5B9@jpmorgan.com>, Robert Taylor <taylor_robert@jpmorgan.com> writes:P > I can't get either of the options to work ( as specified in an earlier post ). > , > I'm running Exceed on a Windows NT client.` > When I log into VMS ( Reflection Telnet ) , I use set display/create/node with my IP and TCPIP
 > setting. >   ?   We do this all the time.  I didn't see it in an earlier post:   7      What is the exact sequence of steps you're taking? A      What are the IP names and addresses of the systems involved? 9      What is the exact error message produced on failure?l      fF ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationp= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:51:12 +0100 0 From: Robert Taylor <taylor_robert@jpmorgan.com> Subject: Re: X Desktop, Message-ID: <39F04DD0.8DDAB5C5@jpmorgan.com>  P I can get the old style session manager working now. I'm happy enough with that.   The original post was :.   The "old" session manager:  !   $ @sys$manager:decw$startsm.com-  + The "new" CDE (caution: full-screen only!):c  .   $ run cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession.exe     Bob Koehler wrote:  ` > In article <39EEEDA8.218B5B9@jpmorgan.com>, Robert Taylor <taylor_robert@jpmorgan.com> writes:R > > I can't get either of the options to work ( as specified in an earlier post ). > >e. > > I'm running Exceed on a Windows NT client.b > > When I log into VMS ( Reflection Telnet ) , I use set display/create/node with my IP and TCPIP > > setting. > >c >tA >   We do this all the time.  I didn't see it in an earlier post:o >c9 >      What is the exact sequence of steps you're taking?dC >      What are the IP names and addresses of the systems involved? ; >      What is the exact error message produced on failure?f >sH > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationt? > Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupAG >  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:27:09 +0200u* From: Jimmi Aakjr <aakjaer@post7.tele.dk>" Subject: X-terminal / Compaq T15008 Message-ID: <ptvvus82ddqovmnv6jp1flguorvpfap182@4ax.com>   Hi    C I am evaluating a Compaq T1500 Linux based x-terminal / VT-terminal5 and ICA terminal.n  D I have some problems with x-manager - i would like to make a session: with the decwindows login screen like on VXT2000 terminals (decw$startlogin).  ? How do i start the session using RSH without saving an usernamed password in the x-manager.   TIAl   Jimmir   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:29:24 -0200t) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bru& Subject: Re: X-terminal / Compaq T1500L Message-ID: <OFD9CE6ACC.50828227-ON8325697E.003ED189@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H I  tryied to use a T1500 with OpenVMS X-Windows but I was not  sucessfu= l ??H Did anyone else tried ?  I believe it=B4s because is using RSH only....=     Regards, FCn                    : Jimmi Aakjr <aakjaer@post7.tele.dk> em 20/10/2000 06:27:09  ' Favor responder a aakjaer@post7.tele.dkiH                                                                        =     =20eH                                                                        =     =20oH                                                                        =     =20I    @                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                              =20@                                                              =20@  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)  =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@                                                              =20@  Assunto: X-terminal / Compaq T1500                          =20@                                                              =20           =,     Hi  C I am evaluating a Compaq T1500 Linux based x-terminal / VT-terminal  and ICA terminal.C  D I have some problems with x-manager - i would like to make a session: with the decwindows login screen like on VXT2000 terminals (decw$startlogin).  ? How do i start the session using RSH without saving an usernamec password in the x-manager.   TIAe   Jimmie       =l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:36:38 GMTh From: spolato@my-deja.coml Subject: Xemacs on OpenVMS ?) Message-ID: <8spao6$t5n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   	 Hi list !b  < Does anyone know whether Xemacs has been ported on OpenVMS ?   Thanks in advance.  
 Sandro Polato<    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Oct 2000 09:54:34 -0500& From: Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org>  Subject: Re: Xemacs on OpenVMS ?, Message-ID: <m3bswfsgut.fsf@sebold.lcms.org> Keywords: vms,emacs    spolato@my-deja.com writes:   > > Does anyone know whether Xemacs has been ported on OpenVMS ?  H I have seen no signs of it, although there may have been patches for v19E to run under VMS.  I suspect you'll have more luck with GNU Emacs 19,iD but I haven't found binaries for that, and I can't get it to compileG under VMS 6.2 or later.  (If anyone has working binaries, VAX or Alpha, < for Emacs 19, I would dearly love to snag them, by the way.)  G If you're running an older version of VMS, grab the Emacs 19 source off ! the freeware CD and compile that.d -- tF Charles Sebold, Systems Specialist                     LCMS Unix site:O LCMS - Office of Information Systems                       http://unix.ois.org/)O *** Opinions expressed herein are not necessarily ***  5E74 5869 00E0 2368 3296 O *** those of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod ***  0287 C1FD 0045 A5E2 A184p -- 21st of Tishri, 5761 --( Overheard at Taco Bell, 29 October 1999:6 "The all-seeing eye of Horus doesn't have an eyebrow."   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:32:23 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)h  Subject: Re: Xemacs on OpenVMS ?0 Message-ID: <009F1E1A.42961D59@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <m3bswfsgut.fsf@sebold.lcms.org>, Charles Sebold <sebold@lcms.org> writes:) >spolato@my-deja.com writes: >f? >> Does anyone know whether Xemacs has been ported on OpenVMS ?  > I >I have seen no signs of it, although there may have been patches for v19 F >to run under VMS.  I suspect you'll have more luck with GNU Emacs 19,E >but I haven't found binaries for that, and I can't get it to compilexH >under VMS 6.2 or later.  (If anyone has working binaries, VAX or Alpha,= >for Emacs 19, I would dearly love to snag them, by the way.)o  F You'll also not get it to compile with DEC C V5.6 and up due to a pre-E processor bug.  I've just received a Compaq C6.3 beta that supposedly F has this fixed.  What other evils may be lurking are still unbeknownst: at this time but I'm certain I'll encounter more C demons.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             rO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.(   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.587 ************************