1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 29 Oct 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 605       Contents: Re: cannot see my CD-ROM6 Re: Cheap Alpha - What config is good and WHAT PRICE ?6 Re: Cheap Alpha - What config is good and WHAT PRICE ? Re: Disk mounting problem  Re: Disk performance under VMS$ Re: FTP from VMS to the demon's seed Re: Galaxy doubt  Re: Mirroring on HSx controllers% RE: Print drivers for OKI printers???  Re: Rdb on VMS reference? ' Re: What happened to Snapshot Services? 7 Re: ZIP broke after upgrade from VMS 7.1-2 to VMS 7.2-1   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:41:19 +0200 7 From: "Uri Klil-Hahoresh" <uri.klilhahoresh@compaq.com> ! Subject: Re: cannot see my CD-ROM 6 Message-ID: <8th61k$134$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   Hi  1 First let me congratulate you for your promotion.    Regards the CD-ROM: G Can't see I mean I can't see the DQ.. device at all - not even offline.   / here's the output from >>> sh config   command:  ... (bla bla bla)  Bus 00 Slot 04: PCI IDE 5                                 pqa0.0.0.4.0 PCI EIDE D                                 dqa0.0.0.4.0 TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-6102B Bus 00 Slot 07: Intel SIO 82378  ...(bla bla bla)H I understand I cannot boot from this type of CD-ROM, but can you explain> what steps should I take in order to make this cd-rom working?   Best regards Uri     ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message 0 news:8t9veq$feb$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... > L > In article <8t8pi7$69u$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, "Uri Klil-Hahoresh"% <uri.klilhahoresh@compaq.com> writes:  > H > :I have dpws500au with vma 7.2-1 (include update,scsi,sys and dqconfig patchsJ > :which suppose to resolve this), but I can't see my IDE CD-ROM. From the boot? > :console the computer recognize it, but not when I start VMS. ' > :The cd-rom type is TOSHIBA XM-6102B. % > :Did someone else has this problem?  > 4 >   Can you elaborate on your use of the word "see"? > I >   Are you attempting to bootstrap from an IDE CD-ROM from this?  If so, I >   you must have a system with the Cypress combination I/O and IDE chip, D >   and not with the Intel Saturn I/O (Intel SIO) and CMD IDE chips. > K >   If >>> show config indicates: an Intel SIO is present, you will want to H >   acquire and boot from a SCSI CD-ROM.  There are unsupported (manual)I >   steps to get this IDE CD-ROM to work once OpenVMS is running, but you  >   cannot bootstrap from it.  > J >   If >>> show config indicates a Cypress PCI Peripheral Controller, then# >   this configuration should work.  > , >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:24:49 -0500 - From: "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com> ? Subject: Re: Cheap Alpha - What config is good and WHAT PRICE ? / Message-ID: <svomuvbg5aae82@corp.supernews.com>   & Please take a look at www.islandco.com  6 Click on low cost alpha and let me know what you think   Regards  David Turner        B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:39FBA29E.657CA35C@earthlink.net...  | JM wrote:  | >  | > Island Computers wrote:  | > H | > > Tell me the perfect cheap hobbyist Alpha and we'll try to bring it | > > to you | > / | > Speaking from one hobbyist's perspective...  | [snip]I | > How about a VMS-capable 21164-based bare bones system that we can add ' | > our existing video, disk and cdrom.  | G | Well, they've already done that. That's what the 164LX machines were: 7 | bare bones. The price was still disappointingly high.  |  | [snip]? | > You tell US what you can sell each of the parts for, what's  | > interchangeable, etc...  | J | That's good, but watch out for the bosses at Islandco. They've still got | $$$ in their eyes... | K | > Heck, if you tell us you need 500 pre-orders to get to a certain price, H | > we might surprise you. The same sort of thing happened to the TRS-80H | > color computer (running OS9 of course) and Multias (Linux) when they! | > took off as hobbyist systems.  | > K | > What would a 164LX, case, ps, 128mb memory and 333mhz processor cost if  | > you had 500 pre-orders?  | B | Hhmmm... I might even consider that myself. Working evenings andA | weekends, I might be able to knock those out in 6 months or so.  | J | > It also helps if the parts are cheap enough that the wives don't blink | > :) | $ | That, of course, is the hard part. | F | Rich Marcello shone a tiny glimmer of hope on the Affordable OpenVMSE | topic for small business. Even so, vendors need to keep in mind the G | "hobby" part in "hobbyist". That means household bills, education and E | the like all take precedence over some reseller's hope of reaping a < | profit from hobbyists that he/she can retire on overnight. |  | > I appreciate your support. | F | ...as do I. However, we're still looking for more sensitivity to theD | needs of small business and the hobbyist when it comes to pricing. |  | -- | David J. Dachtera  | dba DJE Systems  | http://www.djesys.com/ | < | Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! | http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  | H | This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings | is to be expected. | B | Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. | H | However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are | strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:19:33 -0600 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ? Subject: Re: Cheap Alpha - What config is good and WHAT PRICE ? - Message-ID: <39FC6A35.597F965F@earthlink.net>    Island Computers wrote:  > ( > Please take a look at www.islandco.com > 8 > Click on low cost alpha and let me know what you think  # Well, close but no cigar. Try this:   = Alpha Workstation / Server  PC164LX for $650 + shipping with:    128mb , 4.3 GB SCSI disk (RZ29 or equiv., or better) DE500-BA Keyboard mouse   H That's still more than $150 too high, but in my mind at least that wouldE be the closest thing to an "ideal" hobbyist machine that anyone would 
 dare ask for.    Wanna REALLY clinch it?   H Throw in a reburb'd 15-inch monitor and free shipping to the continental US.    F.Y.I.:   E A friend of mine recently became adminstrator of a private school for H the learning disabled. She needs some new computers but has only a $3000G budget to cover at least five(5) new machines including software. After E being deeply disappointed by Compaq, I discovered that the local Best G Buy was selling eMachines computers - complete - for less than $500 US. A Each will need to be upgraded, but I can handle that in my sleep.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Oct 2000 07:04:16 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: Disk mounting problem+ Message-ID: <pJy7u0YWhqIu@eisner.decus.org>   a In article <39FA9687.D35376FC@dial.pipex.com>, Bruce Pagram <bruce.pagram@dial.pipex.com> writes:  > Good morning > B > Is it possible to mount a volume on one cluster from a different* > cluster?  NFS is out due to lack of UCX.  A Is DFS (DECdfs) still available ?  It allowed you to mount across ? cluster boundaries with certain limitations (no shared write to 3 a single file from multiple nodes is one I recall).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:15:01 -0500 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ' Subject: Re: Disk performance under VMS ( Message-ID: <8thphm$sak$1@pyrite.mv.net>  + Hans Vlems <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message " news:8tel8u$r13$1@news.IAEhv.nl...   ...   L > It means that the outer track may have two, four or eight times the blocks > that the inner > tracks have.  H With current IDE drives, the ratio is usually a bit under 2:1.  Might beK less with the high-performance SCSI drives that use more platters and fewer ' cylinders to reduce average seek times.   >  The output rate at that time thus correspondingly higher. For > large files it would9 > reduce head movements because it occupies fewer tracks. C > It could help to INIT the disk and put the index file at the end:  >  >  > INITIALIZE > 
 >   /INDEX >  >         /INDEX=position  > @ >      Specifies the location of the index file for the volume's> >      directory structure. Possible positions are as follows: > ) >      BEGINNING  Beginning of the volume 0 >      MIDDLE     Middle of the volume (default)# >      END        End of the volume ? >      BLOCK:n    Beginning of the logical block specified by n   C Seems like the last would be the best option, but requires a bit of I calculation.  If one assumes that accesses will be spread randomly around L the sectors, then the middle position minimizes average seek distance to theI index file when the tracks are all the same size.  But unless they're far G more heavily skewed than a 2:1 maximum size difference, the middle will J still be better than the outside edge in reducing average seek distances -> though it would be optimal to bias the location outward a tad.  L Other optimizations include placing large, sequentially-scanned files on theD outer tracks (where the difference in data rate improves performance noticeably).   - bill   >  > D > Somebody else referred to Ken Bates. Try to get hold of one of his	 tutorials 	 > on disk , > performance. Worth their weight in Osmium. >  > Hans Vlems > 2 > a_haines@my-deja.com heeft geschreven in bericht" > <8t8keo$rvn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...G > >We have some very performance critical systems that also need to log J > >information to disk. So, I have been doing some investigation into diskC > >I/O performance (such as comparing RMS block I/O with Fast I/O).  > > D > >The configuration is VMS V7.1-2, 4 CPU ES40, 8192MB memory, HSZ80D > >controller, OpenVMS shadow set of two Compaq BA03611C9B (17769177J > >block) disks. The maximum_cached_transfer_size on the controller is set > >to 127 for all disks. > > E > >One test is to create a 500,000 block file at the beginning of the G > >empty disk and fill it with zeros using 127 block writes (either RMS F > >block I/O or $IO_PERFORMs). I record the elapsed & CPU time for theH > >write operations (not for file creation/deletion), then move the fileI > >1,000,000 LBN's down the disk and repeat the test, repeating until the  > >end of the disk.  > > I > >It takes twice as long (35 seconds) to write the file at the end (high G > >LBN) of the disk than it does at the beginning (low LBN) of the disk  > >(18 seconds). > >  > >Compaq have said: > > H > >Data transfer at the beginning of a disk is faster then at the end of* > >the disk. There are 2 reasons for this:I > > 1- at the start there are more sectors per rotation, so in 1 rotation % > >more sectors/data can be accessed. H > > 2- at the end of the disk has less sectors per rotation resulting in > >more headmovements. > > C > >This is not what I expected. Does anyone have any views on this?  > >  > > ) > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  > >Before you buy. >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:07:23 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) - Subject: Re: FTP from VMS to the demon's seed 0 Message-ID: <009F2507.BB6D8E7E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <39FBA5FF.E9BDCBF5@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  >Terry Kennedy wrote: 	 >> [snip]  >>  K >>   BTW, though I have Reflection (no "s") on my PC, I find its FTP client ( >> too "cute" and not functional enough, > A >WRQ's V7 FTP client in Reflection Suite for Enterprise is a true E >abomination, IMO. It is a radical step-down in functionality vs. the E >V6.1 FTP client. One could at one time find the older V6.1 client on D >their ftp site as, I believe, rftp61.zip. If you can find it (I canD >e-mail it to you if you really want it - it's a freebie - sort of),I >highly recommended that you upgrade to the earlier version. W/9x support C >is acceptable, but it fails to recognize some ftp server directory  >formats (most notably MGFTP). >  >> and its FTP server buggy,   > H >Again, this may be a problem in the V7 product. Try to find the earlierG >version of Reflection Suite if you can. It's actually much better than  >the newer version.  > 3 >> so I do my FTP-ing from a MS-DOS prompt window..  > ! >My "court of last resort", also.   I Thanks to all that have replied to my question.  In haste, I simply FTPed I every file by name.  The WRQ, regardless of the *$FTP_NO_VERSIONS, seemed > to want to write that version number as part of the extension.  I I have other problems in the past with the M$ supplied FTP so I got ahold I of a copy of the WRQ product.  It is certainly a whole world better term- I inal emulator than the M$ bit of shit that ships with their excuse for an 3 O/S but I support the FTP client has its drawbacks.   H Anyhow, I now have the VNC client installed on my Alphaa and a server onH PIECE_OF_CRAP (that's the PeeCee hostname) so I don't need to touch thatH piece of crap for the very few things I might even consider doing on theH piece of crap (mostly, proprietary decompression of files downloaded off the net).     G FYI, getting the VNC client installed on VMS was a breeze!  Hats off to F both David North and Hunter Goatley for the port.  The installation ofF the client on the PeeCee, however, wasn't so smooth -- go figya!  TookF and install and a reinstall to make the server start properly.  Damned PeeCee crap.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Oct 2000 09:33:33 -0500/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)  Subject: Re: Galaxy doubt * Message-ID: <8thcft$jss$1@lisa.gemair.com>  6 In article <8t1o13$n6t$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:  >  > [substance snipped]  > G >  Yes, written American English is a rather interesting and difficult  E >  language to master.  (Difficult for even native speakers to truely E                                                                ^^^^^^ ' Indeed!  Or was this intentional irony?   G >  master, I might add.)  No offense is intended here, of course.  This F >  concludes our irregularly scheduled "English Grammar Moment, and weH >  now return to our regularly-scheduled OpenVMS technical discussions.) >   E This English Grammar Moment was brought to you by the Usenet Spelling G Authority (USA), where we say  "If you don't have anything substantive  9 to say, you call always fall back on the Spelling Flame!"   O > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- M >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  >    -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:03:21 -0500 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ) Subject: Re: Mirroring on HSx controllers ( Message-ID: <8thorq$rv9$1@pyrite.mv.net>  J <kparris@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8tar41$lv8$1@nnrp1.deja.com.../ > "Anders" <ccc28376a@post.cybercity.dk> wrote: 1 > > Someone on a mailing list said the following.  > > ----8 > > It used to be (with HSC controllers, I believe) thatJ > > you'd get back an ACK from the controller indicating that the write isI > > complete as soon as the FIRST disk in the shadowset finished its read  > (andJ > > write, IIRC) -- it is no longer the case, however.  You have to set anC > > explicit policy with the HSF software to determine which device  > provides theI > > data.  That's a shame, as it was a shadowing feature I always thought  > wassE > > rather elegant.  Now you're left to choose between the least busyhF > > controller, a round robin technique, or a specific disk -- but NOT
 > the head, > > that's closest to your data.  Oh well... > > ---- > >vG > > Is it correct that shadowing no longer does the closest head thing?m2 > > Why was it changed, as it seems rather clever. >gD > I think what they're thinking of is that with its proprietary diskB > interface, the HSC used to know both the the seek and rotationalG > position of the disks (in fact, for the ESE20 solid-state disk, which H > doesn't "rotate" at all, of course, DEC had to fake it, and create theG > signals to make it look like it was rotating (it was given "4 sectorseB > per track"), so the HSC could handle it).  If you know the trackH > position and rotational position of two disks, the controller can pick* > the best of them to perform a read from. >cC > In the case of writes, both writes had to land on disk before theiF > controller could return "success" status, so this didn't really help > there. > E > With the transition to industry standard disk interfaces like SCSI,gE > this detailed information is presently known only to the controllereF > chip within the disk drive, not to an external array controller like > the HSJ, HSZ, or HSG.l  J I don't have a SCSI spec handy at the moment, but my recollection was thatG the standard did include mechanisms that allowed external parties to be $ informed of the drive head position.  1   Because the new controllers don't know the same G > level of detail about the drives, the best they can do is ask for the I > data from the least-busy drive, or spread requests across the drives onh > a round-robin basis.  L There are other possibilities.  E.g., the controller could issue the requestK to both drives and then cancel one of the requests after the first response. arrived.  F Even without detailed head-positioning information, some software RAIDG implementations assume that a negligible percentage of requests will beOK revectored (due to bad sectors) at the drive and that others will be spreadcD out across the drive in a normal spiral relative to the LBN, performJ external queue optimization (rather than using tagged command queuing - ifG the drive indeed supports it), and target reads based on head positionsoF inferred from those external queues (or the last request an idle driveH completed - though if don't know if they take into account the fact thatJ some idle drives park their heads on random outer tracks after a period ofL inactivity).  This likely won't do quite as good a job of queue optimizationL as actual head-position information (e.g., it may not used combined head andK rotational position to minimize access times), but has the advantage of nottJ requiring the sometimes-flakey tagged-command queuing SCSI implementationsK (though they do seem to be slowly getting better) or equivalent features on:L IDE drives (which only a couple of manufacturers - e.g., IBM - and virtually  no driver software yet support).   - bill  1   To the credit of the SCSI drives, an individualtI > drive is much more intelligent now, has its own cache memory (including I > track read-ahead cache), and with tagged command queueing, can handle adG > queue of multiple I/O requests and re-order them intelligently itselfeC > with something like an elevator algorithm to get the best average < > access times.  It just can't do cross-drive optimizations.I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------nI > Keith Parris|Integrity Computing,Inc.|parris@decuserve.decus.org-nospam H > VMS Consulting: Clusters, Perf., Alpha porting, Storage&I/O, Internals >C >@( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:09:39 -0600h+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>F. Subject: RE: Print drivers for OKI printers???N Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D80528493C@kaoexc3.kao.cpqcorp.net>   Ray, David:.  8 These folks might be able to assist or provide pointers:K www.nls.com  (just tried accessing their site and got timeout, but it mights be issue at my end)t   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt Compaq Canada Inc. Professional Servicesb Voice: 613-592-4660l Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com       -----Original Message-----< From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@earthlink.net] Sent: October 29, 2000 12:12 AMd To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . Subject: Re: Print drivers for OKI printers???     Ray Phelan wrote:i >  > All, > D > I can currentlly print barcodes on an OKI 3320 printer from my VMSD > system.  If I send the exact same output to an OKI Page 10i (laserG > printer) , it does not print the barcodes, but everything else is OK.e  C Even today, unless the barcodes are sent as embedded graphics, mostWH printers "out of the box" will choke on barcode data. This may have beenD an added feature on the (sm)oki 3320. Check to see if this is(was) a8 statndard feature or an option when they were purchased.  tG > I have spoke to OKI, but they are unable to help me.  Do I need printoI > drivers for the OKI Page 10i or does anybody else know why this printeru > will not print the barcodes.  C Again, this may be an optional, added-cost feature. Check with yourdG local reseller. The support folks may assume (incorrectly) that barcodet4 support was ordered when it may actually be missing.   -- v David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/V  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged..   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:21:24 -0500T' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>." Subject: Re: Rdb on VMS reference?( Message-ID: <8thptm$sil$1@pyrite.mv.net>  = Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messagem0 news:8tccvc$15j$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... >:D > In article <f%cK5.322$rm4.7424@sodalite.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Marco Shaw" <marco@nbnet.nb.ca> writes:3I > :Any good references for Oracle Rdb on VMS?  I've seen a few books, but  don'ts2 > :know if they address the OpenVMS environment... >hG >   Rdb, A Comprehensive Guide (Lillian Hobbs, Ian Smith, Ken England),u5 >   Digital Press (www.bh.com).  ISBN: 1 55558 186 2.  > I >   No opinion: Have seen it in Digital Press displays, have not read it.t  D My (somewhat dim) recollection is that it's a decent exposition with respectable internals content.   - bill   >r, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------l1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringi hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:54:38 GMTt% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>o0 Subject: Re: What happened to Snapshot Services?) Message-ID: <8tgvle$9r6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  - In article <39FBAC62.9BBB40A7@earthlink.net>,(:   "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > Kevin Playford wrote:e > >oF > > Can anybody tell me what happened to the Snapshot Services product- > > that was supposed to be released for VMS?d > >lF > > I was under the impression that it was released for Windows NT but: > > didn't see any further announcements about it for VMS. > > > Attempts to implement it on the OpenVMS host were "less than > successful". >yC > The newer HSJ and (I believe) HSG firmware may begin to introduce ) > support for it at the controller level.r  9 ACS V8.5S and 8.5P for the HSG-80 controller have it now.lC Please make sure you understand requirements and limitations beforei you place your order.i   --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:44:54 +0900w2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>@ Subject: Re: ZIP broke after upgrade from VMS 7.1-2 to VMS 7.2-1+ Message-ID: <39FC29D6.2CE8F6D1@digital.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:n > I > In article <8tc8nk$q0j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, byatesiii@my-deja.com writes:k   <snipped...>E > [Beware: The [000TOOLS...] pre-built versions of ZIP on the OpenVMSdH > Freeware V4 CD-ROM will erroneously return BILF errors on OpenVMS V7.2E > and later.  Use of the source on the Freeware V4 to rebuild the ZIPaJ > image(s), or acquiring a pre-built ZIP image from one of the above areasI > can avoid this.  The pre-built version of ZIP on the Freeware V4 kit is E > older than the included ZIP sources, and it contains a latent bug.]k > J >   The on-line HTML version of the OpenVMS FAQ is probably more difficultF >   to use (it is harder to search) than is a monolithic text version.H In which case you can search the no-frames version (e.g. the file posted= on the Wizard page, or http://eisner.decus.org/vms/data.htm )o >   I >   I've also had reports that the HTML version of the FAQ posted at some   >   of the websites is outdated.8 The two sites that I try to keep as updated as possible:E http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm (generally within a few days of a.F  new text FAQ ) and the version on the Wizard page which is updated by   Warren from an internal copy...      O >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion---------------------------"N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   -- cE ---------------------------------------------------------------------mE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.I? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*fF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------m   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.605 ************************