1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 02 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 242       Contents:, RE: ADDENDUM: Keyboard ? (going slightly OT) Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?  Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?  Re: Anyone here from Dublin ? 0 Re: BIND question: overriding external addresses$ Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1( Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 CC psect assignment . Re: Changes in dismount sys service in VMS 7.3' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? ! Re: DECwindows screen backgrounds ! Re: DECwindows screen backgrounds = Delivery problems with Butterworth Heinemann (Digital Press)? A RE: Delivery problems with Butterworth Heinemann (Digital Press)?  Re: Demistify Backup Re: Demistify Backup% Re: Dual Powerstorm issues with DS20e  Re: ES40 memory_test* Re: For European hobbyists with a DS10 ...  How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help$ Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help3 Re: HP's enterprise strategy launch webcast - May 6 3 Re: HP's enterprise strategy launch webcast - May 6 3 Re: HP's enterprise strategy launch webcast - May 6 H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopol Infoserver replacement Re: Infoserver replacement Re: Infoserver replacement Re: Infoserver replacement Intelligent Solutions 8 Re: Itanium Madison blasts Sun, IBM in encryption specs!* Re: linkcount set at 0 when it should be 1 Mystery VAX  Re: Mystery VAX  Re: Mystery VAX  Re: Mystery VAX  Re: Mystery VAX  Re: Mystery VAX  re: MysteryVAX PRODUCT behaviour warning  Re: PRODUCT behaviour warning  Re: PRODUCT behaviour warning 5 Re: Question About Safely Changing File Attributes... > Re: Request for DCL difference between two date-times (again?)N Re: Rich Marcello replaces Scott Stallard as VP  of Business Critical Systems!J Rich Marcello replaces Scott Stallard as VP  of Business Critical Systems! Re: SLS change server node Re: stupid keyboard question Re: stupid keyboard question) Synch-on-Green LCD monitor for Vaxstation - Re: Synch-on-Green LCD monitor for Vaxstation - Re: Synch-on-Green LCD monitor for Vaxstation ! Re: TCP/IP Cluster Alias question ! Re: TCP/IP Cluster Alias question ! Re: TCP/IP Cluster Alias question 4 URLs (was: RE: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1)8 Re: URLs (was: RE: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1)8 Re: URLs (was: RE: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1)8 Re: URLs (was: RE: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1)1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report 3 What is the schedule for the DII COE certification? 7 Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification? 5 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:23:05 +0100* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>5 Subject: RE: ADDENDUM: Keyboard ? (going slightly OT) O Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3023CCF89@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>    >Andrew Robinson wrote: G >> I've found that by separating out the PCB & stacking all the layers  I >> (keys not removed) a domestic dishwasher will wash approx 6 keyboards  H >> at a time, & they look like new when re-assembled. Users are chuffed - >> that they were worth a brand new keyboard.  > J >You take 'em apart? I just stuff 'em in there... top rack, no detergent, I >air dry. The MS-Natual keyboard I'm typing on right now has been cycled  % >through probably six or seven times.   K Unfortunately, I've tried the non detergent / non disassemble approach, but J that doesn't remove all the factory environment dirt which has obliteratedK the markings on the keytops + the accumulated dinners & drinks users insist E the keyboard wants to share collected as a caked mass at the drainage C points. Removing the plastic surround does make all the difference. " Fast approaching sad git territory	 Andrew R.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:40:08 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> & Subject: Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?4 Message-ID: <b8t7dh$jmb$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Hans Vlems wrote:   @  > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> schreef in bericht=  > news:20030501174204.84674.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com...   >  >>Anyone here from Dublin ?  >> +  >>A friend from Europe which works for IBM '  >>matched some jobs and asked me about +  >>going there ! As I dont have contacts in /  >>Ireland.... how is the life, cost of living,   >>Universities ?   >> +  >>I am not interested to go abroad just to .  >>work but to study (a Posgraduation Diploma)  >>et al...   ? Fabio, with all due respect, with regard to working in Ireland, > I don't see why you should be granted a work permit when there> are plenty of skilled IT people out-of-work in the EU already.  9 Now, if you have anyone in your family who can even spell : "Ireland", and you have typical Brazilian football skills,: then not only would you be very welcome there, but they'll8 even give you an Irish passport, and you'd get to change your name to simply "Fabio" :-)   H > We had a DECUS Europe symposium there. In 1998? Anyway the weather wasM > better than in Cannes the year before. All I can remember is that Dublin is N > a nice place to live. I spent a day touring through the country side and theM > poverty was quite shocking. People actually lived (and perhaps still do) in 5 > touring caravans on the sidewalk. Not a nice sight.   ; Hans, these were not your ordinary Irish citizens.  Ireland ? has a large "travelling people" community (mostly Romany IIRC). < That's what you saw, and it most certainly is not typical of< the way most Irish people live.  I'd venture to say that the: standard of living (excluding the "travellers") in Ireland' is probably higher than here in the UK.     > The countryside is beautiful,   2 Yep, fully agreed.  One of my favourite countries.   > the beer is all right.  ; Alright? ALRIGHT?  Don't let anyone hear you say that, else . that's you excluded.  Don't you like Guinness?  G > If you do need the sun a lot then the place is not for you though....   B They say in Ireland, you get all kinds of weather ... *many times, and every day*!   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 00:48:57 -0700 ( From: nedtrilby@hotmail.com (Ned Trilby)& Subject: Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?< Message-ID: <4498b45c.0305012348.569dd2e@posting.google.com>   ...   A To clarify some impressions from those of you who spent 3 days in  Dublin in 1996 (7 years ago). D The economy in Ireland has had the highest growth rate in Europe forC the last 5 years; Ireland is now ranked in the top 30 of the worlds  richest countries (big deal). ? As for the cultural impressions gained during the 3 day visits: D like all cities Dublin has groups of people begging on the streets -? quite a small number but strategically placed to be seen by all F tourists ( & DECUS junketeers). These are from the same groups who areC seen living on caravans on roadsides around the country. In Ireland E they are known as the "TRAVELLING COMMUNITY" - a bit like the Gypsies E (Roma) in Eastern Europe; they follow this lifestyle from choice, not A because of ecomomic circumstances (in fact many of them are quite , wealthy from various "cash only" businesses.C Again like many inner cities around the world the Dublin inner city = didn't look great - neglected by planners, business and local B governmant. The good news is that it has been rejuvenated and is a& most pleasant place to live and visit.D I've lived in Dublin for 50 years - its a great place (& the weather isn't too bad either).: However I don't think there are too many VMS jobs going...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:20:46 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> & Subject: Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?5 Message-ID: <b8u2ca$dur76$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   7 "Ned Trilby" <nedtrilby@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht 6 news:4498b45c.0305012348.569dd2e@posting.google.com... > ...  > C > To clarify some impressions from those of you who spent 3 days in  > Dublin in 1996 (7 years ago). F > The economy in Ireland has had the highest growth rate in Europe forE > the last 5 years; Ireland is now ranked in the top 30 of the worlds  > richest countries (big deal). A > As for the cultural impressions gained during the 3 day visits: F > like all cities Dublin has groups of people begging on the streets -A > quite a small number but strategically placed to be seen by all H > tourists ( & DECUS junketeers). These are from the same groups who areE > seen living on caravans on roadsides around the country. In Ireland G > they are known as the "TRAVELLING COMMUNITY" - a bit like the Gypsies G > (Roma) in Eastern Europe; they follow this lifestyle from choice, not C > because of ecomomic circumstances (in fact many of them are quite . > wealthy from various "cash only" businesses.E > Again like many inner cities around the world the Dublin inner city ? > didn't look great - neglected by planners, business and local D > governmant. The good news is that it has been rejuvenated and is a( > most pleasant place to live and visit.F > I've lived in Dublin for 50 years - its a great place (& the weather > isn't too bad either).< > However I don't think there are too many VMS jobs going...   Ned,I I visited Ireleand only twice, in 1994 and in '96 for the DECUS event. In J '94 I took a car to travel from Dublin to Galway. The people living on theJ sidewalks did not strike me as Roma people at all. The general standard ofL living fitted the image, i.e. fairly low. You are absolutely right that suchK a short visit does not do justice to Ireland and indeed its economy went up J after that. But if I had a choice I'd live near Galway rather than Dublin.# But neither will have many VMS jobs  Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 02:17:27 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: BIND question: overriding external addresses ) Message-ID: <3EB20D77.8A6F1548@istop.com>   M thanks for the answers. Turns out my new ISP's news feed is not very reliable G and it is only once I checked Google that I found that there had been 2  replies. to my question.   Arghhh !   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:35:28 +0200 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>- Subject: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 & Message-ID: <3EB211B0.9000706@Free.fr>  O Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to increase  / the number of different passwords combinations?    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 02:52:26 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 ) Message-ID: <3EB215A7.6CC6C122@istop.com>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > P > Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to increase1 > the number of different passwords combinations?   M Job security for user support since they'll start getting more and more calls , on why their passowrd isn't working anymore.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:56:48 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> 1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 6 Message-ID: <3eb216b1$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Didier Morandi wrote: H > Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to : > increase the number of different passwords combinations? >  > D. >   H Well, it certainly helps in DECREASING password security, and even more F so if a policy is in effect which requires users to use both cases in C their passwords. The effect is that users tend to write down their  + password and store it under their keyboard.   G Of course, our Un*x friends initially thought that they would increase   password security this way!   	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:45:03 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 ) Message-ID: <3EB2300F.4E4338CB@127.0.0.1>    Bart Zorn wrote: >  > Didier Morandi wrote: I > > Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to < > > increase the number of different passwords combinations? > >  > I > Well, it certainly helps in DECREASING password security, and even more G > so if a policy is in effect which requires users to use both cases in D > their passwords. The effect is that users tend to write down their- > password and store it under their keyboard.  > H > Of course, our Un*x friends initially thought that they would increase > password security this way!   G Completely agreed, self defeating security, the harder you make it, the F more likely it will happen. Well I've seen it. I could tell a story or, two, but there is enough compromise already.  D The issue with UNIX is probably that "they could not be bothered" toG translate lower to upper case, too much trouble, and they tout it as an D advantage, while the Windows folks never known for being innovative,H steal a none idea and at the same time managing to extend the capabilityB of the potential damage whist succeeding in implementing it badly.  G But let us get this into context. Very, very few people (comparatively) > run UNIX, it is really some flavour or other, like tea. As theG collective here are aware though, whatever is delivered as 'tea' is a a E cupful of liquid that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.    E I understand now, why the DIICOE and GNV folks (one in the same) said G they were replicating things bug for bug. With it being Friday, I'm not F certain if my cynicism circuits have overpowered the sarcasm circuits,( but I'm happy to leave that to the vote.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 10:53:33 -0000 6 From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 5 Message-ID: <20030502105333.2473.qmail@gacracker.org>   5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway. 8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------  > On Fri, 02 May 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:  H >But let us get this into context. Very, very few people (comparatively)? >run UNIX, it is really some flavour or other, like tea. As the H >collective here are aware though, whatever is delivered as 'tea' is a aF >cupful of liquid that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.    That would be...  ; <URL:http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml>    Unix, "Share and Enjoy".     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net K                                                    http://althacker.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 07:26:14 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 3 Message-ID: <J7XwsTuC+RtY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3EB211B0.9000706@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: Q > Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to increase  1 > the number of different passwords combinations?   E    Security gooks are convinced that using lower case characters make     passwords harder to guess.   9    Might have been true at one time when many systems had G    case-insensitive passwords, and users programmed in Fortran with the H    caps lock key on, but we've all been forced to work in mixed case for    some time now.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 09:57:12 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0305020857.236937f6@posting.google.com>   b Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in message news:<3EB211B0.9000706@Free.fr>...Q > Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to increase  1 > the number of different passwords combinations?  >  > D.    A I agree with the other posters that it is a bad idea to have case  sensitivite passwords.  2 If you do do it, I'd limit it to critical servers.   You *can* overdo a good thing.     Dislcaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    KILL YOUR TELEVISION   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:21:55 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 ( Message-ID: <3EB2A933.9030901@rdrop.com>   Didier Morandi wrote:   H > Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to : > increase the number of different passwords combinations?  G More interestingly, if this is a coming feature in mainstream VMS, can  5 we *turn it off*? If not, I've got some work to do...    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 03 19:41:50 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 ) Message-ID: <vtB5QJHuabWc@elias.decus.ch>   ] In article <3EB211B0.9000706@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: Q > Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to increase  1 > the number of different passwords combinations?  >   C Having the same password across multiple platforms springs to mind.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:56:04 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 1 Subject: Re: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1 ( Message-ID: <3EB2B134.5040700@rdrop.com>   Paul Sture wrote:   _ > In article <3EB211B0.9000706@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:  > Q >>Is there any other interest in case sensitivity for passwords than to increase  1 >>the number of different passwords combinations?  > E > Having the same password across multiple platforms springs to mind.   J 1) That's technically a security no-no, but of course people do it anyway.  G 2) If you set your [for example] NT password to "Im_A_Luser", and do a  G SET PASSWORD and specify the same string, won't VMS smash-case anyway?  F The only difference is if he tries to change next month's password to G "IM_a_LUSER" and VMS tells him that it's a duplicate (which would be a  9 good thing, IMO), while NT et al will happily swallow it.   D Myself, I'd like to disallow subsequent passwords with an identical E string of X characters (after smashing case). For example, I used to  > have a user to happily told me (grr...) that her password was E "mickeyMMYY", after a certain cartoon mouse, appended with month and  H year. Not much social engineering was required to figure that out- just 4 a glance inside her office would have given it away.   ------------------------------    Date: 02 May 2003 09:31:45 -0400% From: Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@glug.org>  Subject: CC psect assignment( Message-ID: <7gbryl8ofy.fsf@gnufans.net>  
 greetings,  B looks like 7.3-1 CC places each uninitialized var in it own psect,E rather than in $BSS$, as i would have thought.  this occurs even when  using switches:   1         /EXTERN_MODEL=COMMON_BLOCK /SHARED_GLOBAL    i suppose i can do  $         globaldef {"$BSS$"} decl ...  B to force the issue but that seems like the wrong approach.  hints?   thi    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:56:07 GMT + From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> 7 Subject: Re: Changes in dismount sys service in VMS 7.3 2 Message-ID: <BAD780B5.7B6A%JCam90502@jcameron.com>   Glenn,  H I'm familiar with the situation and the utility of which you speak. ThisF facility to force one file skip method over the other is now availableI directly from DCL in 7.3 and is unrelated to this problem that I spoke of  about dismount.    In 7.3 see the command(s) :    $SET MAGTAPE/FAST_SKIP=PER_IO  $SET MAGTAPE/FAST_SKIP=ALWAYS  $SET MAGTAPE/FAST_SKIP=NEVER   Thank you anyway.    Jeff (not John) Cameron     $ > From: <Glenn_Everhart@bankone.com>& > Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 08:22:33 -0400 > To: <JCam90502@jcameron.com>9 > Subject: RE: Changes in dismount sys service in VMS 7.3  >  > John -E > Just a guess that this may be due to using skip by files instead of ? > by records in some operations, and some sensing operations to A > see where the tape is. If you force the old behavior (a util in 9 > sys$etc exists to do this) it may not have this effect.  >  > Glenn Everhart >  >  > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Jeff Cameron [mailto:JCam90502@jcameron.com]' > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:08 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 > Subject: Changes in dismount sys service in VMS 7.3  >  > M > Were there any significant changes in the dismount system service in 7.3 of 0 > VMS, specifically in dealing with tape drives? > L > Here is why I ask. My company provides commercial software to many OpenVMSN > customers that manage their tape volumes. Our software works by interceptingM > the DCL commands INITIALIZE, MOUNT, BACKUP and DISMOUNT by means of logical G > names and installed shared images. When any of the above commands are M > executed, our code is run and we determine, first, if we are dealing with a N > tape device under our control, and if we are, we then do whatever processingH > we need to do and then pass off the actual operation to the native VMS
 > service. > L > In the case of dismounting a volume, we force the dismount to be done withN > the NOUNLOAD option, so that we can then read the tape label again to see ifN > the BACKUP utility has reinitialized the tape for any reason. Well, what hasJ > happened in 7.3 (and only on some SCSI DLT tape drives) that despite theH > NOUNLOAD operation, the tape device actually goes offline briefly, andL > returns to an online condition sometime between the dismount operation andM > the drive's physical return to BOT, at which point it becomes online again.  > L > This was never before observed in any previous versions of VMS, and we areI > not sure if it is from a change in operation, or possibly just a timing C > issue that we never saw before, but are seeing in some cases now.  > K > We have made corrections in our software to deal with this by waiting for M > the online condition to return before doing our tape label post processing, I > and timing out if the online condition does not return within 5 minutes < > (allowing for a DLT tape to rewind and reposition to BOT). > G > I'm hoping someone might be able to shed some light on this behavior.  >  > Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:59:21 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?; Message-ID: <01KVES69QMB6AM3M2Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   - > ok, I'm a vms hobbyist, with no money. hehe * > I have some applications I'm developing,% > and want to give out demo licenses. 2 > with like real vms type license checking becauseA > there are too many naughty people out there (thats a joke, son)   G Note that this (developing applications intended to be sold for profit  I (otherwise you presumably would not be worried about generating your own  H licenses) is explicitly NOT allowed by the hobbyist license.  HP do not A "tolerate" this.  (Of course, they might not notice, but that is    something completely different.)  G Do I think that a developer with no money who, if his applications can  G be sold, is a potential bigger VMS commercial customer, should have no  G legal alternative except the full-scale commercial license?  No.  I've  A been suggesting for years that HP have some sort of "developer's  	 license".   H There IS a reduced-rate programme for people who develop code for other F folks.  This might be something good for you.  However, this does not D apply if you are developing applications you intend to use yourself.  H Under the present arrangement, if I use EDT with a hobbyist license on aG machine I saved from being thrown into the skip to write a novel, that  G is illegal, since it is commercial use.  Obviously, for such a machine  G and with the lack of knowledge whether I will actually be able to sell  , the novel, I can't buy a commercial license.  H There SHOULD be something between the hobbyist license and a full-scale  commercial license.   H It would be a shame if HP cancelled the hobbyist programme due to abuse.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:26:33 +0100* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?5 Message-ID: <b8tag6$dea4o$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>   5 "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in message ) news:3EB1D01D.17128.127DADF6@localhost... ( > On 2 May 2003 at 0:43, Beyonder wrote:? > > i guess i need some sort of util to gen my own license keys  > > for my product.  > C > If you join HP's DSPP program, there's probably some way to get a C > PAKGEN license.  I was able to get the appropriate PAKGEN license ) > back during the Compaq era.  Good luck!  >    Read DSPP info here...A http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/pp/pp_Benefit_IDX/1,1412,1,00.html    However, in the hobbyist FAQ at 6 http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/hobbyist_faq/index.html it says: ----------- Extract ----------- J Q17: The HP DSPP Partner's Edge program requires a fee to join, I'm a poorD programmer and don't have the money but I'm writing the best OpenVMS2 application since EDT! How can I develop software?  H A17:   Nothing in the Terms and conditions prohibits you from developing" software using a Hobbyist License.J When it comes to distributing/reselling  your new application that's where the gray area ends. G Here's the ways you can distribute software developed under the OpenVMS  Hobbyist License:   A 1. Publish under the Open Source GNU copyright/copyleft license .   I 2. Published as OpenVMS Freeware on the OpenVMS Freeware CD-ROM or though  DECUS/Encompass libraries ..  F 3 .Before you begin distribution of your commercial software, take theI source or object code to a commercial machine (one that has a purchased a G commercial license for OpenVMS and the layered products you're using) , K compile and link your software. Then you can offer it for sale  without any ! OpenVMS Hobbyist "Encumbrances" . & ----------- end of Extract -----------  J So, if you cannot afford to join the DSPP (it seems to have a free option)L then find someone who is a member of the program and do the commercial build on their machine.      -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.net  http://www.travell.uk.net/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18/04/2003    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:01:41 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?; Message-ID: <01KVEW5AJJ3CAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    > Read DSPP info here...C > http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/pp/pp_Benefit_IDX/1,1412,1,00.html  > ! > However, in the hobbyist FAQ at 8 > http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/hobbyist_faq/index.html
 > it says:! > ----------- Extract -----------   D You left off point 4, which is quite interesting.  Here's the whole  scoop:  N ---------8<-------------------------------------------------------------------  F Q17: The HP DSPP Partner's Edge program requires a fee to join, I'm a B poor programmer and don't have the money but I'm writing the best : OpenVMS application since EDT! How can I develop software?  F A17: Nothing in the Terms and conditions prohibits you from developing5 software using a Hobbyist License.   When it comes to G distributing/reselling  your new application that's where the gray area E ends. Here's the ways you can distribute software developed under the  OpenVMS Hobbyist License:   @ 1. Publish under the Open Source GNU copyright/copyleft license.  B 2. Published as OpenVMS Freeware on the OpenVMS Freeware CD-ROM or" though DECUS/Encompass libraries.   F 3. Before you begin distribution of your commercial software, take theG source or object code to a commercial machine (one that has a purchased F commercial license for OpenVMS and the layered products you're using),F compile and link your software. Then you can offer it for sale without& any OpenVMS Hobbyist "Encumbrances" .   C 4. The best commercial solution of course would be to  develop your G software application and then join HP's DSPP Partner's edge program  to H get the lower cost development licenses, Hardware discounts, and all theB joint marketing.  With HP helping you to promote and sell your new4 application, it's sure to  be a commercial success.   E The simple guide is that if you make money off of your OpenVMS system E you should purchase a commercial OpenVMS License.   If you are just a H Hobbyist Programmer writing an application late at night and on weekendsE that may or may not become a commercial application, you will have to D build your software on a commercial machine if you intend to sell or market your product.    N ---------8<-------------------------------------------------------------------  E Folks, this is the greatest thing to happen to VMS since clustering!    = The previous hobbyist terms and conditions explicitly forbade D development work.  They even gave some examples, saying that even ifE you're not making money now but HOPE TO, then you still can't use the  hobbyist license.   G The above version, apparently new, tells a completely different story.    @ I think this is really good news!  Thanks for posting the link.   ) There are still two points of confusion.    A First, the discussion revolves around developing applications and C selling them.  What about applications which one uses oneself?  The H workaround, of course, is to have your spouse found a company which buysD and runs the application you develop, but that seems a little silly.D Since such an obvious, quite legal, workaround exists, why not stateD explicitly that the stuff above applies not only to applications oneH sells, but also to profit generated by one's own applications, which areB perhaps not sold to anyone.  Above it says "make money off of yourD OpenVMS system", which IS broad enough, but the context implies thatE what is meant is making money off an OpenVMS system by developing and  selling an application.   H Second, what about making money off the VMS system WITHOUT developing an@ application?  An example would be, say, a web page advertising aE commercial service, perhaps even with a free web server serving it to G the world.  This is undeniably making money via the OpenVMS system, but G I doubt that many folks will take "developing an application" liberally F enough to include "writing a web page".  (Of course, writing HTML is aE lot of "web programming", but the newfangled web-programmer types areeF not the typical VMS application developers.)  Another example would beG writing a novel via EDT.  I don't think ANYONE would think of the novelaG as an application in this context, but it WOULD be making money off the D VMS system.  Of course, both of these examples are only valid if theH first point is cleared up first (include running one's own application).  C After having made this mile of progress, I hope Sue or someone can e) manage to get the final couple of inches.   B DEC and its successors have had a history of getting things ALMOSTI right.  Now, if they could just go the additional two inches after going 7I the mile in the new educational programme, things will really be looking o up!m   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:03:59 +0100 (MET)d9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?; Message-ID: <01KVEWPKPM9QAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  G > Folks, this is the greatest thing to happen to VMS since clustering! o > ? > The previous hobbyist terms and conditions explicitly forbadecF > development work.  They even gave some examples, saying that even ifG > you're not making money now but HOPE TO, then you still can't use them > hobbyist license.  > I > The above version, apparently new, tells a completely different story. r > B > I think this is really good news!  Thanks for posting the link.   I Of course, the REALLY important thing, since the web page in question is  < not at HP, is whether HP agrees with this interpretation....   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 10:58:07 -0000s4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?5 Message-ID: <20030502105807.2543.qmail@gacracker.org>   H On Fri, 02 May 2003, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:   <mega-snip>S  J "Developing" your novel on VMS would require you move the text/source-codeA off the Hobbyist machine onto something else to print/compile it.t  * At least, that's how I'd interpret it. :-)     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nettK                                                    http://althacker.cjb.netn   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:24:21 +0100 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?; Message-ID: <01KVEZIXBEIOAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   L > "Developing" your novel on VMS would require you move the text/source-codeC > off the Hobbyist machine onto something else to print/compile it.e > , > At least, that's how I'd interpret it. :-)  D My take is that I could do all the writing on a hobbyist system, but> when producing the final copy to go to the publisher---perhapsA high-resolution PostScript generated from LaTeX (a wonderful freer= programme developed by a (former?) employee of DEC's research H division)---I would have to move it to a production system.  Of course, E it might be possible that the publisher just wants an ASCII file via nG email (or perhaps on diskette).   Hhmmm.  Seems like a lot of work for  G little purpose.  Perhaps it would make things easier if the commercial V> machine were in the same cluster as the hobbyist machine.  :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:01:10 +0100* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?5 Message-ID: <b8tq6q$dd3nu$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>q  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KVEWPKPM9QAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...6H > > Folks, this is the greatest thing to happen to VMS since clustering! > >RA > > The previous hobbyist terms and conditions explicitly forbadeeH > > development work.  They even gave some examples, saying that even ifI > > you're not making money now but HOPE TO, then you still can't use the  > > hobbyist license.I > >cJ > > The above version, apparently new, tells a completely different story. > >-C > > I think this is really good news!  Thanks for posting the link.e >rJ > Of course, the REALLY important thing, since the web page in question is> > not at HP, is whether HP agrees with this interpretation....  ' The answer is an UNCONDITIONAL *_YES_*.@E Quoted directly from the man who admits to being the only HP hobbyisth	 netcop...a@ He pointed me at this documentation and was very explicit in the( interpretation he places on the wording.  - Do your development on your hobbyist license.wJ When you are done, IF you want to SELL the fruits of your work, rebuild it under a commercial license.p  H He would  probably consider a business having hobbyist licenses on theirJ development machines and just have a commercial license on one machine for final builds to be abuse....!t  ; I met him, and others, at the Infosec exhibition yesterday.h) Long and valuable discussions ensued. :-)      -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.netu http://www.travell.uk.net/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 18/04/2003t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:51:39 GMTa' From: "Mark E. Levy" <melevy@attbi.com>R0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?. Message-ID: <vRtsa.703967$L1.201550@sccrnsc02>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KVEW5AJJ3CAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...42 > With HP helping you to promote and sell your new5 > application, it's sure to  be a commercial success.o   This is a joke, right?     -- a Mark E. Levy" System Management Associates, Inc. www.sysman-inc.com www.openvms.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 15:21:46 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?; Message-ID: <01KVF5PKVZFCAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u  H > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 > news:01KVEW5AJJ3CAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...y4 > > With HP helping you to promote and sell your new7 > > application, it's sure to  be a commercial success.  >  > This is a joke, right?  ( I didn't actually write it: I quoted it.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 15:20:02 +0100 (MET)p9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?; Message-ID: <01KVF53H65UAAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  ) > The answer is an UNCONDITIONAL *_YES_*.e   Good.u  G > Quoted directly from the man who admits to being the only HP hobbyista > netcop...    Better.o  B > He pointed me at this documentation and was very explicit in the* > interpretation he places on the wording.  I Almost perfect!  If he could just clear up the other two issues I raised i, and fix up the new educational license.  :-|  J > Do your development on your hobbyist license.  When you are done, IF youE > want to SELL the fruits of your work, rebuild it under a commercialr > license. t  I This sounds like a fair deal.  If you make money using software, then it  E is only fair to pay for that software.  In most cases, you pay for a s@ product---even if like software it is easy to reproduce with no G increased cost for the producer---even if you don't make money from it:iG music CDs, for instance.  (The motivation for HP, of course, should be  F increased exposure to potential paying customers.  The motivation for % hobbyists and developers is obvious.)e  J > He would  probably consider a business having hobbyist licenses on theirH > development machines and just have a commercial license on one machine$ > for final builds to be abuse....!   A Of course.  I agree.  And hats off to Metallica, Madonna etc for nF battling the internet thieves!  It really is a shame that Stallman et G al. paint a black-and-white picture: either GPL and good or commercial bF and bad.  There are a lot of legitimate cases in-between.  (If you've H never read any of Stallman's philosophy, take a deep breath and give it G a try.  Which is not to say, of course, that all software under GPL is s/ written by folks who agree with Stallman 100%.)   I Let's face it: VMS is expensive, and I prefer having software written by rC people who are paid for it, at least in the case of VMS.  The only  D problem is that in recent years software costs---though, along with G hardware costs, they have dropped dramatically---can now be a major or uH even the major expense of a small start-up company, whereas in the past F they were negligible compared to other costs (just think of the power G costs for all those 11/780s!).  The result is that I suspect that many  H more folks would consider VMS if they could legally develop software on E it without having to pay for a full commercial license before seeing s their first cent of profit.   H I've been arguing for a low-cost start-up license to fill this gap, but G if HP wants to go with the hobbyist license, fine, perhaps even better eH (though a full commercial license is needed, apparently, from the first  sale).  F > I met him, and others, at the Infosec exhibition yesterday. Long and# > valuable discussions ensued. :-) 3   Sounds like fun!   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 14:26:03 GMTt( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?5 Message-ID: <b8tv5r$dm4j7$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>a  ; In article <01KVF53H65UAAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, < 	Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:* >> The answer is an UNCONDITIONAL *_YES_*. >  > Good.  > H >> Quoted directly from the man who admits to being the only HP hobbyist >> netcop... > 	 > Better.  > C >> He pointed me at this documentation and was very explicit in ther+ >> interpretation he places on the wording.a > K > Almost perfect!  If he could just clear up the other two issues I raised N. > and fix up the new educational license.  :-|  J Believe it or not, there actually is someone looking into this.  I haven'tE heard anything lately, but having much recent experience dealing withs0 bureaucracies I am patiently awaiting good news.   bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:01:48 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>S0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?' Message-ID: <3EB27A4C.1DE061A1@vcu.edu>n  H Maybe people could make 10 sales first, then pay HP from the profits w/oG having to take out a loan?  This could even be written in the contract,a, tho dunno who or how one could enforce it...   Jimo   Phillip Helbig wrote:a > + > > The answer is an UNCONDITIONAL *_YES_*.a >  > Good.  > I > > Quoted directly from the man who admits to being the only HP hobbyistt
 > > netcop.... > 	 > Better.i > D > > He pointed me at this documentation and was very explicit in the, > > interpretation he places on the wording. > J > Almost perfect!  If he could just clear up the other two issues I raised. > and fix up the new educational license.  :-| > L > > Do your development on your hobbyist license.  When you are done, IF youG > > want to SELL the fruits of your work, rebuild it under a commerciale > > license. > J > This sounds like a fair deal.  If you make money using software, then itF > is only fair to pay for that software.  In most cases, you pay for aA > product---even if like software it is easy to reproduce with no I > increased cost for the producer---even if you don't make money from it:tH > music CDs, for instance.  (The motivation for HP, of course, should beG > increased exposure to potential paying customers.  The motivation for0' > hobbyists and developers is obvious.)e > L > > He would  probably consider a business having hobbyist licenses on theirJ > > development machines and just have a commercial license on one machine% > > for final builds to be abuse....!  > B > Of course.  I agree.  And hats off to Metallica, Madonna etc forG > battling the internet thieves!  It really is a shame that Stallman etoH > al. paint a black-and-white picture: either GPL and good or commercialG > and bad.  There are a lot of legitimate cases in-between.  (If you've I > never read any of Stallman's philosophy, take a deep breath and give it H > a try.  Which is not to say, of course, that all software under GPL is1 > written by folks who agree with Stallman 100%.)  > J > Let's face it: VMS is expensive, and I prefer having software written byD > people who are paid for it, at least in the case of VMS.  The onlyE > problem is that in recent years software costs---though, along with H > hardware costs, they have dropped dramatically---can now be a major orI > even the major expense of a small start-up company, whereas in the pasteG > they were negligible compared to other costs (just think of the power H > costs for all those 11/780s!).  The result is that I suspect that manyI > more folks would consider VMS if they could legally develop software onsF > it without having to pay for a full commercial license before seeing > their first cent of profit.8 > I > I've been arguing for a low-cost start-up license to fill this gap, butaH > if HP wants to go with the hobbyist license, fine, perhaps even betterI > (though a full commercial license is needed, apparently, from the firsta > sale). > H > > I met him, and others, at the Infosec exhibition yesterday. Long and$ > > valuable discussions ensued. :-) >  > Sounds like fun!   -- eF "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:56:12 -0400 " From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.nbet>0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?8 Message-ID: <0255bvc5fvj9211a3a49su7brf402a9ltf@4ax.com>  $ yes I was just wondering about that.3 I am in a pickle at the moment, because while I may / someday consider making my software commercial,n= I'm not ready to do that, and in fact, I'm on the fence aboutu< making it open source. though I'm not quite ready to do that either.k  D one of the ideas I had was some sort of distributed code development: with license controls to cover abuse or theft of the code.1 I do eventually want it to be open source though.g  @ so, seems like the result is to find a machine with a commercial license to build it on.v  1 now, let's make this even MORE messy, shall we...w7 I have two machines, which have commercial vms licensesl: still active, valid, and full documentation to back it up.& I could compile on those quite easily.  0 but it comes back to the packgen license. I haveB a DSPP membership, just registered as an individual (it was free).   so where do I go from here?o  4 yes I know it's weird, but it fits my personality ;)   B.  1 On Fri, 2 May 2003 14:01:10 +0100, "John Travell"P <john@travell.uk.net> wrote:  ( >The answer is an UNCONDITIONAL *_YES_*.F >Quoted directly from the man who admits to being the only HP hobbyist
 >netcop...A >He pointed me at this documentation and was very explicit in the7) >interpretation he places on the wording.q >l. >Do your development on your hobbyist license.K >When you are done, IF you want to SELL the fruits of your work, rebuild its >under a commercial license. >-I >He would  probably consider a business having hobbyist licenses on theireK >development machines and just have a commercial license on one machine forp >final builds to be abuse....! >s< >I met him, and others, at the Infosec exhibition yesterday.* >Long and valuable discussions ensued. :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:48:43 -0400 " From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.nbet>0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?8 Message-ID: <mb45bv40upla8uuuchbvoo6kba8eqcal76@4ax.com>  - Well individual registration for DSPP is freei and I just signed up.r  3 so now I just have to figure out how to get packgen    B.1 On Fri, 2 May 2003 09:26:33 +0100, "John Travell": <john@travell.uk.net> wrote:   >-6 >"Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in message* >news:3EB1D01D.17128.127DADF6@localhost...) >> On 2 May 2003 at 0:43, Beyonder wrote:v@ >> > i guess i need some sort of util to gen my own license keys >> > for my product. >>D >> If you join HP's DSPP program, there's probably some way to get aD >> PAKGEN license.  I was able to get the appropriate PAKGEN license* >> back during the Compaq era.  Good luck! >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:51:38 -0400i" From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.nbet>0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?8 Message-ID: <tv45bv4k9shls1iqkukp03la2jqtrd5qs2@4ax.com>   seemed to be one to me.r oy vey   B.C On Fri, 02 May 2003 12:51:39 GMT, "Mark E. Levy" <melevy@attbi.com>i wrote:   >fG >"Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message06 >news:01KVEW5AJJ3CAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...3 >> With HP helping you to promote and sell your new76 >> application, it's sure to  be a commercial success. >. >This is a joke, right?r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 16:46:06 GMT7" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?0 Message-ID: <00A1F431.474D1D5F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ] In article <mb45bv40upla8uuuchbvoo6kba8eqcal76@4ax.com>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.nbet> writes: . >Well individual registration for DSPP is free >and I just signed up. >.4 >so now I just have to figure out how to get packgen  H Well lucky you!  HP still has /DSPP hostile to any browser available forI VMS.  I guess they don't want VMS folks/developers to be using and or de-r veloping for VMS.R   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi            w5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" v   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 03:54:20 -0400m* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Re: DECwindows screen backgrounds) Message-ID: <3EB22425.9FE3E2E2@istop.com>k   Jim Agnew wrote: > I > i usually do whatever the image is that takes my fancy at the moment....A > xv and windows 98 and up all can "stretch" the image to fit the2 > screen..    E Ok, I did a few tests. i have no problems using xsetroot to display a.N black/white image (.XBM). But it won't support .XPM which is an indexed colour% (equivalent to gif) from what I read.s  N Is there a standard X-windows file format for true colour files (24 buit or 32
 bit depths) ?m  N I realise that one can use some image utility to force the image to display inM the root window. I was just wondering if there was a standard utility presentn9 to do to colour images what xsetroot does to black-white.a  M If, for colour workstations, setting background wallpaper requires the use ofeM a image utilkity that reads in .jpg files, then it is rather pointless for meoM to offer background images since those would be available easily anywhere. (IoA can still provide the black/white versions in XBM format though).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:08:55 -0400r! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>a* Subject: Re: DECwindows screen backgrounds' Message-ID: <3EB26DE7.9F4BDC1D@vcu.edu>x  G hhmm.. so xbm format is like what the thing displays while it's waitinge for someone to login? G I've seen this before, but,  what I'd like to have is to duplicate whatoH I heard someone had, a weather map changing *under the login screen*... F Some of my users LOVE my weather maps backgrounds, but for me to leaveF 'em on is to leave that vaxstation logged on... and to me, that's icky4 and kinky and illegal, immoral and fattening.... ;-)   jimm   JF Mezei wrote:a >  > Jim Agnew wrote: > >(K > > i usually do whatever the image is that takes my fancy at the moment...aC > > xv and windows 98 and up all can "stretch" the image to fit ther > > screen.. > G > Ok, I did a few tests. i have no problems using xsetroot to display a-P > black/white image (.XBM). But it won't support .XPM which is an indexed colour' > (equivalent to gif) from what I read.i > P > Is there a standard X-windows file format for true colour files (24 buit or 32 > bit depths) ?t > P > I realise that one can use some image utility to force the image to display inO > the root window. I was just wondering if there was a standard utility presentO; > to do to colour images what xsetroot does to black-white.l > O > If, for colour workstations, setting background wallpaper requires the use of O > a image utilkity that reads in .jpg files, then it is rather pointless for mefO > to offer background images since those would be available easily anywhere. (IiC > can still provide the black/white versions in XBM format though).n   -- 'F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 03 19:26:16 +0200f) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)bF Subject: Delivery problems with Butterworth Heinemann (Digital Press)?) Message-ID: <oPMEXKCsQEuv@elias.decus.ch>A  B Well I finally got around to ordering Alan Winston's "OpenVMS with/ Apache, OSU & WASD" from Butterworth Heinemann.n  H In spite of the claimed 7-10 day delivery time, I have waited since 19thD March. An email last Friday asking them where it was appears to have4 done something as today a package from them arrived.  B My name and address and book details on the label, a book entitledD "Natural Gas Hydrates" and invoice to somone in Milan on the inside.   Doh!  & Anyone had similar troubles with them?   -- o
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:33:03 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>lJ Subject: RE: Delivery problems with Butterworth Heinemann (Digital Press)?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEMJHBAA.tom@kednos.com>s   >-----Original Message-----e1 >From: Paul Sture [mailto:p_sture@elias.decus.ch]s$ >Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 10:26 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG >Subject: Delivery problems with Butterworth Heinemann (Digital Press)?t >a >OC >Well I finally got around to ordering Alan Winston's "OpenVMS withs0 >Apache, OSU & WASD" from Butterworth Heinemann. >TI >In spite of the claimed 7-10 day delivery time, I have waited since 19thaE >March. An email last Friday asking them where it was appears to haven5 >done something as today a package from them arrived.e >vC >My name and address and book details on the label, a book entitled E >"Natural Gas Hydrates" and invoice to somone in Milan on the inside.S > ( Did you read it before you sent it back?   >Doh!, > ' >Anyone had similar troubles with them?  >N >--  >Paul Sturet >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003r >s ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003   ------------------------------   Date: 1 May 2003 23:38:13 -0700e" From: dmdunyan@hotmail.com (DougD) Subject: Re: Demistify Backupi< Message-ID: <ad98f1e9.0305012238.f4a5549@posting.google.com>  > Just upgraded MSL5026 firmware, and the sdlt drive firmware...   will update tommorrow.   --still lost        N rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote in message news:<3eb1bd92.100097903@news>...C > On 1 May 2003 14:02:10 -0700, dmdunyan@hotmail.com (DougD) wrote:g >  > >Okay - I'm lost ....n7 > >Brand new tape, put in port 0 of msl5000 series loadw > >o > >$robot move port 0 slot 20s	 > >(good)T > >$robot load drive 0 slot 20@ > >(tape with a barcode of 70000 loaded to drive 0.  Still good) > >$allocate $2$mga2:- > >(still good)a+ > >Init/over=(access,expir) $2$mga2: BCKUP1r > >(still good)g= > >$ backup/list=dsa2.bak/image/ignore=(Inter,Label,Noback) -i > > dsa2:  $2$mga2:dsa2.bck  > >D! > ></BOLD> It Starts here!</BOLD>h > >r) > >Show dev $2$mga2: from another sessionn> > >shows Drive goes into mountverify, then WrongVolume status? > >t> > >After a short time, the session with allocated drive reads:8 > >%BACKUP-E-FATALERR, fatal error on $2$mga2:[]dsa2.bck3 > >-SYSTEM-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabledi > >%BACKUP-I-OPERSPECd? > >%BACKUP-I-OPERASSIST, operator assistance has been requestedw+ > >(no operator available) quit or continue  > >pG > >continue gives the same error....only option is quit...and it aborts. > > 1 > >Is it me, or is something really wrong here...h > F > Nope, something is wrong. My guess is that it's either a dud tape or' > the tape device needs some attention.  > >t > >--lost in tape land   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:30:28 +0200$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at> Subject: Re: Demistify Backups0 Message-ID: <b8thcd$2d3$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  $ "DougD" <dmdunyan@hotmail.com> wrote< > $ backup/list=dsa2.bak/image/ignore=(Inter,Label,Noback) - >  dsa2:  $2$mga2:dsa2.bck >o  > </BOLD> It Starts here!</BOLD> >c( > Show dev $2$mga2: from another session= > shows Drive goes into mountverify, then WrongVolume status?  >a= > After a short time, the session with allocated drive reads:v7 > %BACKUP-E-FATALERR, fatal error on $2$mga2:[]dsa2.bcko2 > -SYSTEM-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled > %BACKUP-I-OPERSPEC> > %BACKUP-I-OPERASSIST, operator assistance has been requested* > (no operator available) quit or continue What does the drive do, if you $ MOUNT/FOREIGN $2$mga2: and then, $ BACKUP /NOASSIST/LABEL=(BCKUP1)/EXACT ....   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 05:25:14 -0400, From: "David Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>. Subject: Re: Dual Powerstorm issues with DS20e/ Message-ID: <vb4ekb6knhbiba@news.supernews.com>4  	 Problem 1.	 ---------.  ? The example program from section 5.4.2 (Allocating Color Cells)s@ http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/5642/5642pro_006.html< blackouts the screen after pressing MB1 to try to rotate the> colour wheel if executed on a TrueColor default visual screen.> The screen becomes black and remains black afterwards although@ the display server continues running. I didn't find any means to= get anything displayed after that happens therefore I have to.; reboot. Pressing MB2 to quit the program always works, i.e.0> before trying to press MB1. The program also works if executed< on a screen with a PseudoColor default visual or on an older= machine with a different graphics board, an older VMS versionr> and an older DECwindows X11 display server. Also, resizing the= colour wheel to a bigger window leads to a somewhat distortedc< image. Some background stripes, horizontally and vertically,= adjacent to the former right and bottom borders cut the wheel < into pieces. The program works perfectly wrt that phenomenon on the older environment.   $ Example programm wheel.exe attached.    	 Problem 2f	 ---------o  ; Using X11 routines to display some lines and to erase theset? lines by drawing in reverse mode doesn't always work. Sometimesa@ several pixels remain in their current state and erasing doesn't? work that way. After a while of working the image on the screeno? looks a bit distorted. It looks like someone had left some duste on the screen.   Example pictures attached.< EditStore.gif shows the character string Edit.Store which is= still somwhat underlined although the line has been erased by  drawing it in reverse mode.M> scrollbar.gif show three short horizontal bars which shouldn't< be there because they have been erased by drawing in reverse mode.     	 Problem 3h	 ---------e  @ 1.The display server dies periodically every three or four days.; Normally it dies while I do something but it died also once = when I wasn't there. VMS continues running and it is possible : to restart the DECwindows X11 display server several times< each time after that kind of trouble. If the server has been= restarted more than 10 times restarting stops working and the-  whole system has to be rebooted.  0 Some data for the machine that shows the problem0 ------------------------------------------------  " - DS20E, single cpu 500 MHz, 512MB> - Two PowerStorm 300, devices GBB0 (head 1) and GBA0 (head 2).  ? The default visual for head 1 is PseudoColor and pixel depth 8.p? The default visual for head 2 is TrueColor with pixel depth 24.t  	 VMS 7.2-1t  G DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0       Patch       Install     10-JAN-2002- 01:02:30G DEC AXPVMS VMS721_PCSI V1.0         Patch       Install     10-JAN-2002' 00:57:25G DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.2-1        Full LP     Install     11-JAN-2001- 15:19:36G DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5           Full LP     Install     11-JAN-2001n 15:19:36G DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1           Platform    Install     11-JAN-2001M 15:19:36G DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-10            Full LP     Install     11-JAN-2001n 15:19:36G DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1               Oper System Install     11-JAN-2001e 15:19:36  ? This is from a customer of ours - any help would be appreciated    Ta   -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp.f 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404c Tel: 912 4476622 Fax: 912 2010402 http://www.islandco.coml dbturner@islandco.comi   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 08:40:51 -0700C$ From: gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen) Subject: Re: ES40 memory_testc< Message-ID: <bdc65a53.0305020740.9672fe2@posting.google.com>   Rich,h  C I wonder if that's only the case on certain machines like the ES4x?lB "partial" works just fine on our older systems--at least, the onesC with the "set memory_test" console command. (It doesn't work on thes* older ones that don't have the command :-)  b Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<wMWcnWb4oJ2wbjSjXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>...  C >   According to support, the 'partial' test does not in fact test aH > _enough_ memory for VMS to boot (not enough memory marked 'good').  I H > don't know if there's still an issue with newer firmware/VMS releases. > 
 > Rich Jordane > CCSo   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 05:40:52 -0400, From: "David Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>3 Subject: Re: For European hobbyists with a DS10 ... / Message-ID: <vb4fgv7kud4l72@news.supernews.com>o   No   Which one do you have ?s   DT   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 01:48:38 -0700c$ From: fakharmtc@hotmail.com (Fakhar)) Subject: How to run VMS on PC Please help-= Message-ID: <f925d8ca.0305020048.123079d0@posting.google.com>e  	 Dear all,   A I need some help regarding VMS installation on PC running windowse 2000.n# I have downloaded the evax emulator,F http://www.forest-edge.net/evax.html and now I want to run VMS on this' emulator. Can anyone help me with this.   F If there is no way to do such installation then please tell me how can  I run VMS on my PC free of cost.   Please help me   Fakhar   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:36:00 GMTs& From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please helps0 Message-ID: <CFN377434784721991@news.cup.hp.com>   Well,o  L I don't know eVax, but this product doesn't seem to be a really stable. You N can use some other emulators like Charon (I don't know if there is a hobbyist J version still available) or simh (my favourite - it's free and networked).  6 Then you need an install OVMS CD and some patience :-)  P BTW: does anybody know if it's possible to install VMS on simh from Infoserver ?   Jirkaf    B On 2 May 2003 01:48:38 -0700 fakharmtc@hotmail.com (Fakhar) wrote:   > Dear all,  > C > I need some help regarding VMS installation on PC running windowsn > 2000.i% > I have downloaded the evax emulator H > http://www.forest-edge.net/evax.html and now I want to run VMS on this) > emulator. Can anyone help me with this.l > H > If there is no way to do such installation then please tell me how can" > I run VMS on my PC free of cost. >  > Please help me >  > Fakhar >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:48:48 +0100w( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please helpf( Message-ID: <3EB23F00.431F388@127.0.0.1>  
 Fakhar wrote:c >   C > I need some help regarding VMS installation on PC running windowso > 2000. % > I have downloaded the evax emulator H > http://www.forest-edge.net/evax.html and now I want to run VMS on this) > emulator. Can anyone help me with this.e > H > If there is no way to do such installation then please tell me how can" > I run VMS on my PC free of cost.  B For *hobbyist non commercial* use, you can obtain operating systemE licences. Emulators may require separate and additional licensing, nofF commercial products I know of are covered by the hobbyist program, andH do bear in mind you're placing the inherent reliability of the operatingD system into an environment whose reliability is the exception rather than the norm.  E Perhaps try rephrasing your question declaring your usage intentions,s, and help may just creep out of the woodwork.   -- m? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:30:31 -0400v* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help . Message-ID: <3EB23AB7.8227.141E15BA@localhost>  N > I don't know eVax, but this product doesn't seem to be a really stable. You P > can use some other emulators like Charon (I don't know if there is a hobbyist L > version still available) or simh (my favourite - it's free and networked).   I have a pointer to SIMH at:  &   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html  3 You can find picoVAX off the CHARON-VAX website at:.     http://www.charon-vax.com-  @ And if I you need a commercial-grade solution, just call me  :-)    R > BTW: does anybody know if it's possible to install VMS on simh from Infoserver ?  E Darn good question.  I gave my Infoserver to someone else, but maybe lF someday the Infoserver for Alpha will be available.  It was announced  a few years ago...
 --Stan Quayleu Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671t1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:02:28 -0400.* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help-. Message-ID: <3EB24234.4717.143B57F3@localhost>  ( On 2 May 2003 at 10:48, Nic Clews wrote: > [...] andyJ > do bear in mind you're placing the inherent reliability of the operatingF > system into an environment whose reliability is the exception rather > than the norm.  @ Both SIMH and CHARON-VAX are available for Linux, which is much  better than Windoze.  F And CHARON-VAX is available for OpenVMS on Alpha.  And no one in this # newsgroup doubts its stability.  :)o  
 --Stan Quayleo Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671o1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147r= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comi   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 14:28:22 GMTe, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help 5 Message-ID: <b8tva6$dm4j7$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   . In article <3EB23AB7.8227.141E15BA@localhost>,- 	"Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:e > S >> BTW: does anybody know if it's possible to install VMS on simh from Infoserver ?M > G > Darn good question.  I gave my Infoserver to someone else, but maybe RH > someday the Infoserver for Alpha will be available.  It was announced  > a few years ago...  K Speaking of Infoservers, is there any way to use a VS3100 as an Infoserver?0   bill   -- CJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 07:54:58 -0700t$ From: fakharmtc@hotmail.com (Fakhar)- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please helpe= Message-ID: <f925d8ca.0305020654.2a2c0053@posting.google.com>i  X Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3EB23F00.431F388@127.0.0.1>... > Fakhar wrote:b > >  >  eE > > I need some help regarding VMS installation on PC running windows.	 > > 2000.w' > > I have downloaded the evax emulatordJ > > http://www.forest-edge.net/evax.html and now I want to run VMS on this+ > > emulator. Can anyone help me with this.e > > J > > If there is no way to do such installation then please tell me how can$ > > I run VMS on my PC free of cost. > D > For *hobbyist non commercial* use, you can obtain operating systemG > licences. Emulators may require separate and additional licensing, nooH > commercial products I know of are covered by the hobbyist program, andJ > do bear in mind you're placing the inherent reliability of the operatingF > system into an environment whose reliability is the exception rather > than the norm. > G > Perhaps try rephrasing your question declaring your usage intentions,u. > and help may just creep out of the woodwork.   OKE I fall in the hobbyist category that I want to submit a report VMS inw my Operating Systems subject.4    # Any help would be really apreciable/   Fakhar   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 16:18:44 -0000M6 From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please help-6 Message-ID: <20030502161844.13043.qmail@gacracker.org>  5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway. 8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------  4 On 2 May 2003, fakharmtc@hotmail.com (Fakhar) wrote:   <snip>   >OK F >I fall in the hobbyist category that I want to submit a report VMS in >my Operating Systems subject.  $ >Any help would be really apreciable  = I'd suggest starting with an account on the Deathrow cluster,@G <URL:http://deathrow.vistech.net>. This will let you play with VMS as aeK user while you sort out the details to get VMS up on a machine of your own.lK You'll find stuff in the Notes conferences there about setting up the sim-hE VAX simulator on Linux.s  K Then you can visit <URL:http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/> for information onpJ getting licenses and installation media. You'll have to join Encompass, or= your local chapter of DECUS, before you can get the licenses.-     Doc. -- -6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net K                                                    http://althacker.cjb.neto   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 16:08:22 GMTu& From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please helpe0 Message-ID: <CFN377437508954051@news.cup.hp.com>  N If I remember this correctly=2C you must replace the boot ROM with some other Q chip to be able to boot Infoserver SW=2E Once we've played with this =28the boot nH ROM consists of two chips=29 and we've managed the VS to boot VMS *and* K Infoserver by replacing just one of the two chips=2E But I'm sure it's not u officially supported =3A-=29=29e   Jirka   Z On 2 May 2003 14=3A28=3A22 GMT bill=40gw5=2Ecs=2Euofs=2Eedu =28Bill Gunshannon=29 wrote=3A  > =3E In article =3C3EB23AB7=2E8227=2E141E15BA=40localhost=3E=2CC =3E =09=22Stanley F=2E Quayle=22 =3Cstan=40stanq=2Ecom=3E writes=3Af =3E=3E oP =3E=3E=3E BTW=3A does anybody know if it's possible to install VMS on simh from  Infoserver =3F =3E=3E ,P =3E=3E Darn good question=2E  I gave my Infoserver to someone else=2C but maybe O =3E=3E someday the Infoserver for Alpha will be available=2E  It was announced i =3E=3E a few years ago=2E=2E=2Et =3E S =3E Speaking of Infoservers=2C is there any way to use a VS3100 as an Infoserver=3F  =3E  =3E bill =3E  =3E -- cT =3E Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy =28di mok' ra see=29 n=2E  Three wolvesP =3E bill=40cs=2Escranton=2Eedu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner=2E =3E University of Scranton   |O =3E Scranton=2C Pennsylvania   |         #include =3Cstd=2Edisclaimer=2Eh=3E     =3E    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 18:43:37 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)- Subject: Re: How to run VMS on PC Please helpt; Message-ID: <3eb2a039.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>e  ' Woland (weiland@no.spam.post.cz) wrote:aE > BTW: does anybody know if it's possible to install VMS on simh froma > Infoserver ?  F Just these days, I tried to start LAD transport to mount an Infoserver6 disk from simh to get at some ECOs. No problem at all.  F I've no idea, though, whether our Infoserver is set up to have VMS/VAXA booted from it. If I find the time, I'll give it a try next week.l   cu,    Martin --  J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.depJ One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:16:51 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>c< Subject: Re: HP's enterprise strategy launch webcast - May 6H Message-ID: <Tktsa.66031$w7k.30902@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message-# news:3EB1EAD0.DE1229DB@istop.com...  > John Smith wrote:ME > > Maybe Blackmore, Gorham, or Marcello can give us some clues as toe howfD > > prominently VMS will be featured in this Enterprise extravaganza > > webcast? ><B > Has it ever occured to you that the above persons amy be totally	 happy andeB > comfortable with the current levels of exposure of VMS and think that VMS@ > loyalists like us who "demand" such a silly thing as exposure,
 marketing etco8 > are just plain silly and know nothing about business ? >   9 I'm beginning to believe that your assessment is correct.t  D But as a counter argument, if Sun OS / Solaris was/is such a load ofC cr*p then what factors played a part in Sun selling so much productaC into former VMS accounts during the late 80's and through the 90's?lC High among them one would have to include effective advertising andr@ marketing. Granted there were other factors too - like focus and" single-minded evangelical purpose.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:10:28 +0100l' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyg< Subject: Re: HP's enterprise strategy launch webcast - May 6* Message-ID: <3EB26E44.107@nospamn.sun.com>   John Smith wrote:-9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message % > news:3EB1EAD0.DE1229DB@istop.com...u >  >>John Smith wrote:  >>D >>>Maybe Blackmore, Gorham, or Marcello can give us some clues as to >> > howc > C >>>prominently VMS will be featured in this Enterprise extravaganzae >>>webcast?  >>B >>Has it ever occured to you that the above persons amy be totally >  > happy and. > B >>comfortable with the current levels of exposure of VMS and think > 
 > that VMS > @ >>loyalists like us who "demand" such a silly thing as exposure, >  > marketing etc  > 8 >>are just plain silly and know nothing about business ? >> >  > ; > I'm beginning to believe that your assessment is correct.o > F > But as a counter argument, if Sun OS / Solaris was/is such a load ofE > cr*p then what factors played a part in Sun selling so much product E > into former VMS accounts during the late 80's and through the 90's?FE > High among them one would have to include effective advertising andeB > marketing. Granted there were other factors too - like focus and$ > single-minded evangelical purpose. >  >   ? Well it could be that your basic premise, Solaris is/was a loadc of crap was and is wrong.t  > Oh no that couldn't be it, it has to be marketing or something> that Digital/Compaq didn't do well, it couldn't be the former.   regardsm Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 16:15:53 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> < Subject: Re: HP's enterprise strategy launch webcast - May 6H Message-ID: <ZQwsa.53860$M81.14885@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"m8 <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message$ news:3EB26E44.107@nospamn.sun.com... >c >M > John Smith wrote:t; > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagen' > > news:3EB1EAD0.DE1229DB@istop.com...r > >t > >>John Smith wrote:m > >>F > >>>Maybe Blackmore, Gorham, or Marcello can give us some clues as to > >> > > howd > >oE > >>>prominently VMS will be featured in this Enterprise extravaganzac
 > >>>webcast?, > >>D > >>Has it ever occured to you that the above persons amy be totally > >l
 > > happy and  > >eD > >>comfortable with the current levels of exposure of VMS and think > >e > > that VMS > >oB > >>loyalists like us who "demand" such a silly thing as exposure, > >  > > marketing etcs > >o: > >>are just plain silly and know nothing about business ? > >> > >n > >b= > > I'm beginning to believe that your assessment is correct.a > >hE > > But as a counter argument, if Sun OS / Solaris was/is such a loadt of? > > cr*p then what factors played a part in Sun selling so much  productsA > > into former VMS accounts during the late 80's and through thel 90's?oC > > High among them one would have to include effective advertisingn andfD > > marketing. Granted there were other factors too - like focus and& > > single-minded evangelical purpose. > >p > >a > A > Well it could be that your basic premise, Solaris is/was a loadt > of crap was and is wrong.a >i@ > Oh no that couldn't be it, it has to be marketing or something@ > that Digital/Compaq didn't do well, it couldn't be the former. > 	 > regardsd > Andrew Harrison:     Andrew,nB You're getting a bit prickly. Can't you recognize sarcasm when you read it?  D The fact is that at the time Sun was making inroads against DEC, the> most important things Sun OS had going for it was fork(), lessF 'institutional arrogance' (though that has not been the case for quiteF some time), and low cost relative to VMS. Of the three, the latter two- were more important in the eyes of customers.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 06:28:12 GMT 4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt8 Message-ID: <db34bvcb4s7uupmcopmd139hoj7flq43pe@4ax.com>  * On Thu, 1 May 2003 15:55:02 +0000 (UTC) inA alt.folklore.computers, hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E.g Hawkins) wrote:e  * >In article <VZ334grIiIag@elias.decus.ch>,+ >Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:mC >>In article <20030429093824.20726.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypherv- >><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:, >d >l) >>>>"There isn't the *demand* squire...."p > N >>> My grandfather has an answer for that whenever some PFY in a shop says it, >mH >>> "Well, I was just asking... But if it means I'll get it, consider it >>>  a *demand*."  > I >>Hah. Approximately 10 years ago I was after some standard white shirts,3J >>suitable attire for the customer I was about to visit. I scoured all theA >>usual outlets to find none. I eventually ended up at a good olddF >>fashioned family run gents outfitters that I have used for years andI >>spoke of my plight. The owner managed to find some white shirts for me,eF >>but complained that the manufacturers were telling him there was "noJ >>demand" for them. He also told me he had a waiting list of customers who >>wanted them. >s1 >Try finding white western-cut shirts these days.i >hD >Practicing law, I usually wore these, as the western cut is severalH >inches longer, and and with a narrower waist, than the regular cut.  InH >ordinary sizes, I'm a LT, not an XL (and just got a t-shirt in my size!7 >Dress shirts are by collar and chest, not height . . .- >-I >And then Garth Brooks happened.  On the rare occasion I can find a plaine# >white western shirt, it's blended.r  ? Are you looking for something like: White Solid Twill Shirt / +.; Tall Wrangler 71135CH 15.5x35-18x36 or 71135CHT LT CA$54.95  US$37.90 found at URL:Y http://www.lammles.ca/cgi-bin/lammles/wwstore.cgi?overlord=Search+Products&store_areaid=7"  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada  -- aF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 06:49:42 GMTs4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh8 Message-ID: <l054bvo2u65mcahljioiaoaodo6igvrumh@4ax.com>  A On Fri, 02 May 2003 06:28:12 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, Brian / Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:r  + >On Thu, 1 May 2003 15:55:02 +0000 (UTC) inmB >alt.folklore.computers, hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. >Hawkins) wrote: >e+ >>In article <VZ334grIiIag@elias.decus.ch>,2, >>Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:D >>>In article <20030429093824.20726.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher. >>><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: >> >>* >>>>>"There isn't the *demand* squire...." >>O >>>> My grandfather has an answer for that whenever some PFY in a shop says it,  >>I >>>> "Well, I was just asking... But if it means I'll get it, consider it  >>>>  a *demand*." >>J >>>Hah. Approximately 10 years ago I was after some standard white shirts,K >>>suitable attire for the customer I was about to visit. I scoured all the5B >>>usual outlets to find none. I eventually ended up at a good oldG >>>fashioned family run gents outfitters that I have used for years andiJ >>>spoke of my plight. The owner managed to find some white shirts for me,G >>>but complained that the manufacturers were telling him there was "no K >>>demand" for them. He also told me he had a waiting list of customers whog >>>wanted them.  >>2 >>Try finding white western-cut shirts these days. >>E >>Practicing law, I usually wore these, as the western cut is severalsI >>inches longer, and and with a narrower waist, than the regular cut.  In0I >>ordinary sizes, I'm a LT, not an XL (and just got a t-shirt in my size!:8 >>Dress shirts are by collar and chest, not height . . . >>J >>And then Garth Brooks happened.  On the rare occasion I can find a plain$ >>white western shirt, it's blended. >v@ >Are you looking for something like: White Solid Twill Shirt / +< >Tall Wrangler 71135CH 15.5x35-18x36 or 71135CHT LT CA$54.95 >US$37.90 found at URL:lZ >http://www.lammles.ca/cgi-bin/lammles/wwstore.cgi?overlord=Search+Products&store_areaid=7  > or by searching for "Wrangler Painted Desert shirt" on google,A you may be able to get them for US$29.95 at your local State Lines Tack inside PetsMart at:2 420 Home Drive, 	Pittsburgh, PA 15275	412-490-01919 1700 Fruitville Pke, #K, Lancaster, PA 17601	717-481-9902l8 2100 Chemical Road,	Plymouth Mtg., PA 19462	610-567-2933  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadao -- aF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 02 May 03 10:25:09 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comcQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b8tnq5$ml3$7@bob.news.rcn.net>g  9 In article <5aqr8b.2p6.ln@cvg-65-27-189-87.cinci.rr.com>,o-    Larry Jones <scjones@thor.sdrc.com> wrote:  >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:i >>A >> To become an expert, one does need to spend years and years in ? >> an area.  Programming these days spends so much time gettinge- >> swapped in and out, nothing gets improved.g > E >A specialist is someone who learns more and more about less and lessk0 >until he or she knows everything about nothing. > E >A generalist, on the other hand, learns less and less about more andi5 >more until he or she knows nothing about everything.a  > <GRIN>  And a bit expert knows how to balance between the two.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.a   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 02 May 03 10:26:42 GMTn From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b8tnt2$ml3$8@bob.news.rcn.net>   9 In article <1l0s8b.mah.ln@cvg-65-27-189-87.cinci.rr.com>,e-    Larry Jones <scjones@thor.sdrc.com> wrote:l. >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} <bhk@dsl.co.uk> wrote: >>8 >> Skills in oenotechnology[1] will always be useful :-) >e >I'll drink to that!  5 But, please, please, please! don't put a clock in it.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.t   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:53:09 +0000 (UTC)8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyg- Message-ID: <b8u0ol$tm6$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>r  8 In article <db34bvcb4s7uupmcopmd139hoj7flq43pe@4ax.com>,6 Brian Inglis  <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:+ >On Thu, 1 May 2003 15:55:02 +0000 (UTC) intB >alt.folklore.computers, hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. >Hawkins) wrote:  2 >>Try finding white western-cut shirts these days.  E >>Practicing law, I usually wore these, as the western cut is severalCI >>inches longer, and and with a narrower waist, than the regular cut.  InnI >>ordinary sizes, I'm a LT, not an XL (and just got a t-shirt in my size!i8 >>Dress shirts are by collar and chest, not height . . .  J >>And then Garth Brooks happened.  On the rare occasion I can find a plain$ >>white western shirt, it's blended.  @ >Are you looking for something like: White Solid Twill Shirt / +< >Tall Wrangler 71135CH 15.5x35-18x36 or 71135CHT LT CA$54.95 >US$37.90 found at URL:.Z >http://www.lammles.ca/cgi-bin/lammles/wwstore.cgi?overlord=Search+Products&store_areaid=7  G It could be.  Oddly, they have no picture.  But it doesn't tell whetheroA it's cotton or blended; I think all of Shepler's solid whites aren, blended (which make me quite uncomfortable.)   thanks   hawk -- @K Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaignrG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mailvD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 16:09:30 GMTt+ From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>1Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopole) Message-ID: <u4r4d4996.fsf@earthlink.net>   : hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) writes:I > It could be.  Oddly, they have no picture.  But it doesn't tell whether C > it's cotton or blended; I think all of Shepler's solid whites aree. > blended (which make me quite uncomfortable.)  C there is a sheplers about a mile from my current position (assumingm@ talking about the same company) ... i'll drive right by it in an hour or two.   -- f3 Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ eA Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htmF   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 13:46:46 GMT:& From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> Subject: Infoserver replacement-0 Message-ID: <CFN377436525870255@news.cup.hp.com>   Hi,m  A does anybody know about a possible replacement for Infoservers ? gJ My old IS 100 is probably gone (but it's not that easy - I'm able to boot O OpenVMS on it, but I'm not able to boot Infoserver sw of any version; strange)  L and I'm looking for something what could save my VXT from a way to scrap... O I know that VXT is able to operate standalone (i.e. host loaded), but there is eJ a big minus - the paging/swapping feature is not available in this mode...     Thanks,w   Jirka    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:00:32 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com># Subject: Re: Infoserver replacementg. Message-ID: <3EB25DE0.6190.14A76F57@localhost>  % On 2 May 2003 at 13:46, Woland wrote: C > does anybody know about a possible replacement for Infoservers ? 2  F At one time, there was work on an Infoserver product running on Alpha D under VMS.  Last I heard (3 years ago?), it was working, but no one . had any cycles left to make it into a product.  A If HP would release the documentation on the Infoserver protocol FF (LAD, LAST, etc.), I bet the open-source community would jump on it.  D The DECnet-on-Linux group's been wanting this information for years.  
 --Stan Quaylei Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671e1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:35:34 -0500d, From: Bob Blunt <robert.blunt@hp.nospam.com># Subject: Re: Infoserver replacement-* Message-ID: <3eb2a180@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  
 Woland wrote:r > Hi,r > C > does anybody know about a possible replacement for Infoservers ? $L > My old IS 100 is probably gone (but it's not that easy - I'm able to boot Q > OpenVMS on it, but I'm not able to boot Infoserver sw of any version; strange)  N > and I'm looking for something what could save my VXT from a way to scrap... Q > I know that VXT is able to operate standalone (i.e. host loaded), but there is iL > a big minus - the paging/swapping feature is not available in this mode... >  > 	 > Thanks,. >  > JirkaE  H Are your "boot flags" correct for the Infoserver?  Attach a terminal to H it and do a >>> SHOW BFLG  If it comes back blank, you've probably lost C the NVRAM battery and your console "settings" are possibly missing.G  F Also, SHOW BOOT  and  SHOW DEVICE from the console.  The BOOT console D variable should be set to CD first, then hard drive, something like:  " DKA100,DKA0 or follow your config.   BFLG should be set to either:m   D0100000 or D0000000  C Check the console at power-up for anything that fails with two "??"   G The only replacement (IMHO) for booting a VXT from an Infoserver is to wH load it up with memory and boot from a MOP-capable system.  The problem D is that you CAN NOT put the pagefile for the VXT on anything but an F Infoserver disk so you have to max memory on the VXT.  I imagine that 6 finding memory for any VXT could be quite difficult...   bobn   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 12:22:00 -0500aB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)# Subject: Re: Infoserver replacemento3 Message-ID: <OOBI0EUF$cX8@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  [ In article <3EB25DE0.6190.14A76F57@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:, > C > If HP would release the documentation on the Infoserver protocol  H > (LAD, LAST, etc.), I bet the open-source community would jump on it.    M About 3-4 years ago, when I got my first hobbyist machine, a VAX, I asked one F of the VMS engineers informally if there was any chance of having thisJ information released, as writing a Infoserver protocol level emulation wasG precisely what I wanted to do. I was told that this information was nott< available and that there were no plans to make it available.  F > The DECnet-on-Linux group's been wanting this information for years. >   F Not associated with them, but it was Linux that I wanted to run it on.   Simon.   -- nB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 03:15:06 -0700t1 From: pestellj@spilsby.demon.co.uk (John Pestell)e Subject: Intelligent Solutions= Message-ID: <a6be1b2c.0305020215.15ad6ed0@posting.google.com>t  D Assets of FORTEL Inc. Acquired by DivestCap Management Corporation &E SightLine Systems appoints EMEA Distributor for the Sales and Supporty
 of SightLine.     E Fairfax, Virginia - April 28, 2003 - On April 23, 2003 the BankruptcycD Court of Northern California, Oakland Division, approved the sale ofD substantially all of the assets of FORTEL Inc. (FORTEL) to DivestCapF Management Corporation ("DivestCap").  The transaction closed on April@ 28, 2003.  The new company will operate under the name Sightline2 Systems and be headquartered in Fairfax, Virginia.  D DivestCap has assumed full control of FORTEL's operations, retainingF the product development, customer service, and product support teams. @ These veteran teams will build on Sightline Systems' 20 years ofF leadership in the performance monitoring and capacity planning market,F while drawing on DivestCap's substantial human and financial resources8 to drive the Sightline product family forward worldwide.  B Sightline Systems will be managed by Gordon Pell, General Manager,: along with substantially all of FORTEL's customer support,? engineering, and R&D teams.  DivestCap principals will serve as + full-time CEO and CFO until further notice.   E "This day marks a turning point for the Sightline product line," said > Charles Hale, Partner, DivestCap Management Corporation, "withF DivestCap's backing and the skills of its veteran teams employed goingD forward, Sightline Systems will continue to build on its traditionalE performance modeling and capacity planning offerings while supportingyB existing customers and making customer satisfaction our Number One
 priority."  < "Sightline Systems" is already operating in Fairfax with itsB executives, engineering, sales and marketing infrastructure.  "OurE immediate goal is to ensure a smooth transition, providing all of our.C worldwide customers with the highest level of support," said GordonsA Pell . "With a more dedicated team than ever, we will ensure more D presence in the field and establish tighter and closer communication with our customers."  @ "We are excited to carry on with this new, stronger entity, moreF focused on its strategy and customers. We feel confident that with theF combination of robust technology and highly experienced management, we= are ready to set Sightline Systems it on its way to continuedo	 success."e  ! Leatherhead, UK  April 29th 2003o  A Following the sale of SightLine to DivestCap and the formation of @ SightLine Systems to provide sales and support within the United? States, DivestCap have today appointed Intelligent Solutions, arD division of Palmer & Webb, to provide Sales and Support of SightLine* throughout Europe, Middle East and Africa. 	oD Intelligent Solutions will be managed by Reg Webb, Co-Founder, alongD with substantially all of Fortel's European Support and Sales staff.  E It is business as usual for us,' says Reg Webb  most of my team hascE worked with SightLine and its predecessor, ViewPoint, for more than a F decade, we know the product, we know the customer base and we know theE market  SightLine is the best product in its field, we are delightedn: the ongoing support and development is now in safe hands'.  ? Intelligent Solutions is establishing a Support Desk to provideeE technical assistance to all SightLine Users within EMEA, this will be C managed by Amarjit Randhawa  and in the interim can be contacted by: email or telephone:a   		sightline@dsl.pipex.com  		+44 (0)  7899 753186   .nF Intelligent Solutions covers most of the major European markets either; directly, from offices in Leatherhead and Frankfurt, or viaeD Distributors. Intelligent Solutions will continue to provide support$ to all existing SightLine Customers.  F Our customers have been very loyal' says Ekke Seith, Country Manager,F Central Europe,  they deserve the best and we will work to ensure theC quality of the support we provide matches the quality our Customers E expect. They have chosen to use a superb product, SightLine, which is  a market leader in its field'.   About Sightline Systems & The Key to IT Performance Information.E Sightline Systems provides the first real-time performance managemente> solution that assures business end-to-end service-level goals.; Sightline System's SightLine suite is based on analysis andsE correlation software that has been applied and tuned for more than 20 A years in the systems management performance arena by customers in-> finance and banking, defense management, manufacturing, retailE services and government. Sightline Systems counts among its customerslA many of the world's largest and most well known organizations andeD enterprises. The Company is headquartered in Fairfax, VA, and can beB contacted at (703) 385-7700 or by visiting its interim web site at www.fortel.com.n   About DivestCapwF DivestCap specializes in acquiring and managing information technology= companies.  With over $100 million in capital and 30 years oflB investment and operational experience in the computer hardware andA software industries, DivestCap has the resources and expertise tot@ build value, enabling each investment to realize its potential. A DivestCap's mission is to create value for the acquired company'sa@ customers by making customer satisfaction the cornerstone of ourC management approach.  You may find additional information regardingr DivestCap at www.divestcap.com.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 15:19:03 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancydA Subject: Re: Itanium Madison blasts Sun, IBM in encryption specs!a. Message-ID: <3EB27E57.2050605@nospamn.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote: R > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > C >>Incedentally the best HP SPECWEB_SSL benchmark result on a rx2600s* >>with 2 x 1 GHz 3 MB cache CPU's is 1230. >  >  > Nit - SPECweb99_SSL. >  > < >>The best Sun V210/V240 number with 2 x 1 GHz CPU's is 833. >  > H > There is no published V210 SPECweb99_SSL result.  Unless and until SunA > wants to publish one it would be better to stick with the V240.aE > Public assertions of SPEC unpublished benchmark performance figurestF > for systems can result in requests for disclsoure, and since the max* > RAM on the V210 is 1/2 that of the V240: >   9 Ohh slap my wrist. Sorry but this forum is full of people < both inside and outside HPQ who seem prepared to take almostB any benchmark result and trail it before its announced, exrapolateC from it to something else, announce a result and then withdraw themy; 7 days later some of which are discouraged by the benchmarkQC organisations for the specific benchmark in question, some of whichi are simply sharp practice.  E In the circumsatances pointing out that the V210 is a less expandible-1 version of the V240 is a very minor misdemeanour.2  2 > http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/v210/specs.html > ? > It is not a given that the V210 could match the SPECweb99_SSL. > performance of the V240. >    No and its isn't a g   > E >>A Sun V240 with 8 GB and a crypto 2x 1GHz CPU's internal disks 4 GBi >>NICS costs 8K dollars.   >  > ( > How did you arrive at that figure? At: > @ > http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?catid=100055 > H > It lists the base price of $6,495, which includes 2GB of RAM in 512 MBE > boards, the two CPUs and two, 36 GB discs.  If I then go to furtheriF > configure the system (click the select box), and add 8GB of RAM (hasF > to use the 1 GB boards since there are only 8 memory slots), drop toH > the standard warrantee (the default selection is upgrade to three yearC > gold for another $6200), and assume that the buyer already has OS-E > media and doesn't need pre-installation, that comes-out as $14,170.iH > Now that does not include a credit for the 2GB of RAM that needs to beC > junked from the base config, assume there is one and give it that8C > credit ($1590) and that seems to suggest $12,580, not 8K dollars.s >       > Sorry forgot about the 8 GB, so the system config costs 10,680 or 21360 for 2.M  D The standard 4 GB system ships with 4 1GB DIMMS, we just add another 2 x 2 x 1GB DIMMS.  ; So we still have 25K's change from the difference between a ( slower HP solution and a faster Sun one.      F > Where is the discrepancy?  It would be good if you could include theF > public URLs you are using to arrive at your pricing figures so those. > folks watching can double-check our results. >  > % >>The V210 would be 500 dollars less.| >  > ? > And unless and until we see a V210 SPECweb99_SSL figure up on-E > www.spec.org we cannot assume it can achieve the same SPECweb99_SSL  > result as the V240.F > D > And even then you are still assuming an horizontal scaling for the@ > SPECweb99_SSL workload which has yet to be demonstrated by any > published results.   >   = Hum, my suspicion is that nobody has bothered because it is a ; horizontally scaled workload. And if it isn't then it isn't < terribly indicative of real world because I have a number of: customers using farms of Web servers with cryptos which do horizontally scale.h  H > Finally, you have also left-out the cost of the web server software (a5 > 60 day try and buy on Sun ONE doesn't cut it). Per:  > 9 > http://wwws.sun.com/software/products/web_srvr/get.htmlo >r > Per: >  > http://www.zeus.com/purchase/  > 8 > The cost for ZWS is $1700 for an up to two CPU system. >   : Humm, how many customers do you have using Zeus, most will8 be using Apache, SunOne or the IBM WebSphere web server.  7 Nice to do benchmarks with but it hardly figures in then4 Web server stakes. Still it is quite cheap 1700, for( the system vs 1,495 per CPU for Sun One.  5 That leaves us with a total price per Server of 13670p or 27340 for two.   < Sun does supply Apache supported with Solaris and the Crypto5 cards also accelerate Apache as well as does the SNCAb  = But since you seem to want nit pick a complete costing on the-> HP will need to add VxFS to the HP config price as well as the Zeus licenses.  ;  From your website this is  $1,965 per CPU so the HP system   including software costs $51,875  9 Two Sun's better throughput more resiliance cost $27,340.s  : So we end up with 24535 change or roughly another 2 Sun's.8 Lets hope you are prepared to discount the rx2600 prices down a lot.-  ; But you still seem to be missing the point. Opteron is your(8 problem because it hits your CPU partner where it hurts.  > And you are almost uniquely tied to your selected CPU partner.   regards. Andrew Harrisonl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:59:36 +0100r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>3 Subject: Re: linkcount set at 0 when it should be 1i) Message-ID: <3EB23378.25D1F1F3@127.0.0.1>n  
 Sam wrote: >  > Hi Folks.l > G > Its is a 2 node Alpha cluster OpenVMS 7.3-1 with all relevant patchesiE > up to date. And ODS-5 and hard links are enabled. I did not use anyt > the hard linka > features yet.  >e5 > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagea > >rD > > Are we to guess here it is ODS-5? "Hard links enabled"? What VMSK > > version? Using (or have been using) relevant required patches? What did $ > > HELP/MESSAGE LINKCOUNT tell you?  G We're in need of that ODS5 internals book. Hard links is an improvement G on the file system, both IBM and UNIXen (to my knowledge) have had this H for a while, where you can have a single copy of a file, yet a number ofF "users" or viewers consider it their file, and can even delete it, butD the file itself is only physically deleted when the very last person loses interest.   E The implications are quite interesting when you get into the world ofyG aliased file structures, I don't believe it is any better or any worse.dE I've not hacked with it in a crash and burn situation yet to have any G stronger opinions, but the lack of an entry for the HELP/MESSAGE shouldk
 be addressed.2   -- 3? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:30:23 -0000a+ From: m_thompson@ids.net (Michael Thompson)3 Subject: Mystery VAX/ Message-ID: <vb4p6vadf73515@corp.supernews.com>V  K I just picked up a mystery VAX. It looks like a MV-II but havs a VAXBI bus.e It that Contains:o$ T1030	KA800-M	010C	VAX RTA Processor" T1033	MS800-E	n/a	2-MB Exp. Memory! T1034	DEBNA	410F	Ethernet Adapter3  / Where can I get documentation on the KA800 CPU?o  # It looks like the system can use a:e) T1031	KFBTA		(AIE) BI RD Drive Controlleri   Where can I get:1 T1001	KA820	0105	Processor, VAX 8200/8300, 200 nsm3 T1001YA	KA825	0105	Processor, VAX 8250/8350, 160 nsa* T1040	MS820-C	0001	16-MB MOS Memory Module   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:09:01 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>= Subject: Re: Mystery VAX5 Message-ID: <b8u1m9$dj8uq$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>3   It perhaps a VAXstation 8000?a  : "Michael Thompson" <m_thompson@ids.net> schreef in bericht) news:vb4p6vadf73515@corp.supernews.com...4H > I just picked up a mystery VAX. It looks like a MV-II but havs a VAXBI bus. > It that Contains:w& > T1030 KA800-M 010C VAX RTA Processor$ > T1033 MS800-E n/a 2-MB Exp. Memory# > T1034 DEBNA 410F Ethernet Adaptero >u1 > Where can I get documentation on the KA800 CPU?s >o% > It looks like the system can use a:h* > T1031 KFBTA (AIE) BI RD Drive Controller >V > Where can I get:3 > T1001 KA820 0105 Processor, VAX 8200/8300, 200 ns 5 > T1001YA KA825 0105 Processor, VAX 8250/8350, 160 nsa, > T1040 MS820-C 0001 16-MB MOS Memory Module >t >i   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:37:42 -0400 (EDT)+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>  Subject: Re: Mystery VAXH Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.53L-031.0305021034030.1881@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>  H interesting.. it certainly _sounds_ like an 8200 (or another of the sameG series)... can you get to the chevron on it and get the SID? that wouldt
 settle it.   Isildur0    + On Fri, 2 May 2003, Michael Thompson wrote:f  M > I just picked up a mystery VAX. It looks like a MV-II but havs a VAXBI bus.  > It that Contains: & > T1030	KA800-M	010C	VAX RTA Processor$ > T1033	MS800-E	n/a	2-MB Exp. Memory# > T1034	DEBNA	410F	Ethernet Adapteri >h1 > Where can I get documentation on the KA800 CPU?  >e% > It looks like the system can use a:n+ > T1031	KFBTA		(AIE) BI RD Drive Controlleri >t > Where can I get:3 > T1001	KA820	0105	Processor, VAX 8200/8300, 200 nse5 > T1001YA	KA825	0105	Processor, VAX 8250/8350, 160 nst, > T1040	MS820-C	0001	16-MB MOS Memory Module >  >u >u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 15:46:32 GMTt& From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> Subject: Re: Mystery VAX0 Message-ID: <CFN377437357288079@news.cup.hp.com>  O Congratulations! You've got a Real Time Accelerated VAX (look for RTA, VAXELN, g KA800)  : SPD : http://www1.sqp.com/MasterIndex/spd/spd_0001d0c5.txt   Jirkan    N On Fri, 2 May 2003 17:09:01 +0200 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote:   > It perhaps a VAXstation 8000?- > < > "Michael Thompson" <m_thompson@ids.net> schreef in bericht+ > news:vb4p6vadf73515@corp.supernews.com...:I >> I just picked up a mystery VAX. It looks like a MV-II but havs a VAXBI. > bus. >> It that Contains:' >> T1030 KA800-M 010C VAX RTA Processoro% >> T1033 MS800-E n/a 2-MB Exp. Memory3$ >> T1034 DEBNA 410F Ethernet Adapter >>2 >> Where can I get documentation on the KA800 CPU? >>& >> It looks like the system can use a:+ >> T1031 KFBTA (AIE) BI RD Drive Controller  >> >> Where can I get:a4 >> T1001 KA820 0105 Processor, VAX 8200/8300, 200 ns6 >> T1001YA KA825 0105 Processor, VAX 8250/8350, 160 ns- >> T1040 MS820-C 0001 16-MB MOS Memory Modulee >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 16:35:53 -0000 + From: m_thompson@ids.net (Michael Thompson)  Subject: Re: Mystery VAX/ Message-ID: <vb57j9nb0of45b@corp.supernews.com>   P To add a little more information... The system looks like a MV-II but is just a L little bigger. The front has room for 6 RD5x drives and a CDROM. There is a N cable distribution panel behind the drives that looks similar to the one in a N MV-II but it doesn't plug into the backplane. It has a 9 slot VAXBI card cage O in the left and normal MV-II bulkhead panels on the rear. The sides hinge open eL to get access to the front and rear of the VAXBI card cage. It looks like a J finished product, not a protptype. It only says DIGITAL on the front. The " system serial number is "PREPILOT"  L >I just picked up a mystery VAX. It looks like a MV-II but havs a VAXBI bus. >It that Contains:* >T1030   KA800-M 010C    VAX RTA Processor) >T1033   MS800-E n/a     2-MB Exp. Memory5) >T1034   DEBNA   410F    Ethernet Adapterm > 0 >Where can I get documentation on the KA800 CPU? >-$ >It looks like the system can use a:5 >T1031   KFBTA           (AIE) BI RD Drive Controllera >s >Where can I get:y9 >T1001   KA820   0105    Processor, VAX 8200/8300, 200 nse9 >T1001YA KA825   0105    Processor, VAX 8250/8350, 160 nsh0 >T1040   MS820-C 0001    16-MB MOS Memory Module >w >e   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 13:16:35 -0400 (EDT)+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>M Subject: Re: Mystery VAXH Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.53L-031.0305021316130.4605@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>  I very odd, ive never seen a vax like this! i cant find any machines in the G 1989 or 1990 systems & options catalogs that resemble this box.. though L from the pictures, the metalwork does look like DEC's style... and the frontN panel of the machine looks like it might have been intended to match a BA213..; The BI backplane, seeing it, really makes me think '8200'..y  E f you can get to the >>> but no 'sho dev' or whatnot, do you at leasto* see anything printed out when it comes up?C pop the reset button or power it up with a console attached, to seeaH what it tells about itself.. even the KA630 prints out a model name when
 it comes up.. I Otherwise.. perhaps it is a BI MIPS processor? i can imagine such a thing ' existing, though ive never heard of it.d0 to get the SID, at the chevron, give the command e/i 3e this should give something likef	 >>>e/i 3e    I 0000003E  0A000003  H which is what i got from a KA650. (the high byte is the system type, the) other parts are for specific models, etc)w   isildur   + On Fri, 2 May 2003, Michael Thompson wrote:t  . > Here are a couple of pictures of the system: >l >t& > At 10:37 AM 5/2/03 -0400, you wrote: > >nK > >interesting.. it certainly _sounds_ like an 8200 (or another of the samezJ > >series)... can you get to the chevron on it and get the SID? that would
 > >settle it.  > >t
 > >Isildur > >t > >g. > >On Fri, 2 May 2003, Michael Thompson wrote: > >iP > >> I just picked up a mystery VAX. It looks like a MV-II but havs a VAXBI bus. > >> It that Contains:) > >> T1030	KA800-M	010C	VAX RTA Processort' > >> T1033	MS800-E	n/a	2-MB Exp. Memory-& > >> T1034	DEBNA	410F	Ethernet Adapter > >>4 > >> Where can I get documentation on the KA800 CPU? > >>( > >> It looks like the system can use a:. > >> T1031	KFBTA		(AIE) BI RD Drive Controller > >> > >> Where can I get:76 > >> T1001	KA820	0105	Processor, VAX 8200/8300, 200 ns8 > >> T1001YA	KA825	0105	Processor, VAX 8250/8350, 160 ns/ > >> T1040	MS820-C	0001	16-MB MOS Memory Modulee > >> > >> > >> > >r > >@   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:17:55 -0500e, From: Bob Blunt <robert.blunt@hp.nospam.com> Subject: re: MysteryVAX-, Message-ID: <3eb29d5d$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  E I went back through all our old SOCs here in the office and couldn't wG find anything about a specific system that matched what you described. sH I did locate some information about the KA800, but no manuals.  This is D unofficial data, and a snippet at that.  I'm still looking for more G information, but I'm GUESSING that you've latched onto a rtVAX of some rI nature.  Are there NO identifying model numbers on the box, even partial l( ones?  Anyhow, what I found re: KA800...  D     "The KA800 is basically a MicroVAX II processor board in a VAXBIE      form-factor. It is only sold as a VAXELN target processor. It istD      intended to be used as a front-end processor out on the I/O busE      of a VAX/VMS "host" system - that is, the main system processorsn@      are running VAX/VMS and the KA800s are running VAXELN. As aI      front-end processor, it is targeted at tasks such as device control, H      protocol handling, etc. The basic premise is that a processor whichB      is dedicated to managing an I/O stream will exhibit much moreG      deterministic performance than a processor which is called upon toe      manage many I/O streams."  % Further, I found this additional bit:b  D     "Further, let me emphasize that VMS can not run on a KA800.  VMSI      neither recognizes the CPU type nor supports the internal components0$      such as the memory controller."  <  From the SOC entry for the KA800 (VAX SOC April-June 1989):  G     "VAX Realtime Accelerator (VAX RTA) hardware and software integraterB      VAX/VMS general purpose systems and VAXELN dedicated realtimeC      processors into a single, tightly integrated, high-performance-      system.  A      ... VAX RTA software allows VAX/VMS host processors to load,sG      control and communicate with VAXELN realtime KA800 processors overs      the VAXBI bus.m  ?      ... The VAX RTA processor, KA800, distributed the realtime I      processing power and control closer to the realtime event that needss?      it.  For example, the KA800 can directly control the DRB32 G      high-speed parallel port to reduce interrupt overhead and increaseeC      the predictability of system response to external events.  TheeH      MS800 extends private memory to 11MBytes.  VAXBI memory, MS820, can4      be used as a buffer to collect high-speed data.  D So, I'm gonna guess that you picked up either a rtVAX that uses the G KA800 or realtime peripheral that is intended to be an expansion to an oI existing BI-based VAX.  It would be EXTREMELY helpful to know ANY of the kE part numbers for the system frame/cage/box into which this stuff was >G packaged.  I suppose it is also possible that you've gotten a "system" tH that was built by an OEM and it'll never match up with a Digital system  or part number.o  . Found this with a Google search for "KA800-M:"  I http://www.sysworks.com.au/disk$vaxdocdec951/decw$book/dy48aaa1.decw$bookn  , There's a chapter there for/about the KA800.  B The only other thing we might have available is old field service A microfiche.  Based on that, it ISN'T a rtVAX 300 or rtVAX 3200...l  H For the other modules, I'd check with the used dealers and at auctions, F particularly Government ones.  You may have to take the whole system,  though.t   bobs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:46:48 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>" Subject: PRODUCT behaviour warning) Message-ID: <3EB25AA8.15A59BED@127.0.0.1>a  F I don't know if anyone has seen this before, and it may also have beenC fixed in a later release, but I'm documenting this because it could, catch you out.  F So here I am with my Hobby Alpha system. I've installed 6.2 and 6.21H3@ with Motif 1.2-3. Now, I'm busy determining which version is theF *lowest* version I can comfortably run, for reasons which are probably not going to become obvious.  H However, I'm making backups before I make changes to a few "spare" disksG I'd also been experimenting with different installed versions, and thiss is what happened.2  H System disk is volume label A0. I'd done an image backup to a saveset toE a disk I'd mounted /OVER=ID, also with the volume label A0, which was # also a version of this system disk.r  C I proceeded to do a PRODUCT INSTALL, and all looked normal, getting	E "1.2-3 will be removed, 1.2-4 will be installed" I fiddled with a few  options, then let it go.  @ Watching the disk activity lights, I pretty soon realized it wasH uninstalling and installing to the privately mounted volume, rather thanG the actual real current system disk. So I left it to carry on, thinkingrB I'll just dismount the private volume and perform the installation> again. No such luck. It has already trashed the content of theH PCSI$DATABASE files on the real system disk, then I became thankful that( I had made that BACKUP before I started.  F The implication here is that if you have a privately mounted volume toE your process which just happens to have the same volume label as your A system disk, PRODUCT may not carry out the installation where you G expected it to, but gets confused as to where the database is it should F be updating. PRODUCT appeared to be translating the DISK$A0 logical atH the process level ignoring the system generated [at mount time] logical.  E I'll add that the 6.2 system is unpatched, no Y2K or PCSI patches. No,' other operating system versions tested.@ -- o? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Scienceso nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:42:14 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o& Subject: Re: PRODUCT behaviour warning; Message-ID: <01KVF49MLA7WAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l  G > PRODUCT appeared to be translating the DISK$A0 logical at the process!? > level ignoring the system generated [at mount time] logical.    G The latter would be /SYSTEM/EXEC.  Normally, outer-model logical names 5F have precedence.  Of course, there are applications which only search H the system table and/or executive-mode logicals.  Not sure if this is a H bug or feature.  Assuming that it should by default install on the real D system disk---how would you do it on a privately mounted one if you 
 wanted to?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:31:37 +0100l( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>& Subject: Re: PRODUCT behaviour warning) Message-ID: <3EB27339.36E8AC8F@127.0.0.1>d   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > I > > PRODUCT appeared to be translating the DISK$A0 logical at the processw@ > > level ignoring the system generated [at mount time] logical. > H > The latter would be /SYSTEM/EXEC.  Normally, outer-model logical namesG > have precedence.  Of course, there are applications which only searchdI > the system table and/or executive-mode logicals.  Not sure if this is anI > bug or feature.  Assuming that it should by default install on the realTE > system disk---how would you do it on a privately mounted one if youo > wanted to?  H Of course PRODUCT allows you that type of functionality with the way youH can build system disks from the booted CD-ROM. However the PCSI databaseF being updated was in the wrong place, so the use of the logical is notE consistent in that it was translating the exec mode for the database, ; but using the process mode logical for the file operations."  F I suspect the answer to your question would be to use /DESTINATION but0 I've never had a reason to use PRODUCT in anger. -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencess nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 03 19:13:26 +02001) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)n> Subject: Re: Question About Safely Changing File Attributes...) Message-ID: <W8riSKu6O$zR@elias.decus.ch>   h In article <YJasa.3170$c6.3045@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>, Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> writes: > Robert Alan Byer wrote:aQ >> Thanks everyone, I forgot about CONVERT and I used CONVERT/APPEND which solved  >> the problem.d >> e/ >> Thanks again, it's amazing what one forgets.b >>   > F > Just for reference -- sometimes, esp. when pulling files from other K > platforms, it *can* be a totally valid thing to do -- you can change the  D > way RMS looks at a file using Joe Meadows' excellent FILE utility: >   D Indeed it can be a valid thing to do. The most common use I have forF changing file attributes is when downloading ECOs from the VMS site toE my home system. Netscape stores them with the wrong attributes, whichC; means that the result of CHECKSUM doesn't match that in theo corresponding .CHKSUM file.t  $ This is my quick and dirty for that:   $! FIX_EXE.COM $! ----------- $!& $ set file/attr=(rfm:fix,lrl:512) 'p1' $ checksum 'p1'o $ show sym checksum$checksum    6 > ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/file.zip > J > Only recommended if one pretty much know's what he is doing, but a nice  > option to have.u >   	 Good tip.i -- u
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:03:00 GMTk# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> G Subject: Re: Request for DCL difference between two date-times (again?)@H Message-ID: <U7tsa.65928$w7k.33940@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ) <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message:9 news:OF9024CDC1.0772F42A-ON85256D19.004F8E7A@metso.com...p >e. > This has likely been asked and answered, but >w6 > would someone please supply a DCL segment to produce > 8 > the difference of two date-times in delta-time format. >  >   C There may be what you seek, and other gems, at www.kgb.com/dcl.htmle   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 12:33:48 -0500eB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)W Subject: Re: Rich Marcello replaces Scott Stallard as VP  of Business Critical Systems!-3 Message-ID: <EjWcPhPkhD6W@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <6Pxsa.6081$Lm2.281900@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org> writes:h8 > HP Announces Global Realignment of Enterprise Business; > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030502a.htmlr > M > Survey on OpenVMS.org will follow soon.  Feel free to suggest questions for@ > the community. >   J Yes, but from the press release, Scott Stallard just moves up a level, andF is still Rich Marcello's boss. It is good however to see Rich MarcelloE continuing to rise up the management chain; I hope that means that atn0 least nothing sudden and bad will happen to VMS.   Simon.   -- hB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       L VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 17:22:10 GMT 2 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAMopenvms.org>S Subject: Rich Marcello replaces Scott Stallard as VP  of Business Critical Systems!c< Message-ID: <6Pxsa.6081$Lm2.281900@twister.southeast.rr.com>  6 HP Announces Global Realignment of Enterprise Business9 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030502a.htmll  K Survey on OpenVMS.org will follow soon.  Feel free to suggest questions for1 the community.   Kenc   -- Kenneth Farmer <>< http://www.OpenVMS.org http://dcl.OpenVMS.org   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 06:12:11 -0700 * From: denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich)# Subject: Re: SLS change server nodew< Message-ID: <d28306e.0305020512.49775c42@posting.google.com>   [ S N I P ] A > If my SLS server node is going to step down and want to promotes3 > another VAX node (prior is a client) to a server,a9 > 1. do I need to reinstall everything in the new server? F > 2. how can I migrated the previous data file to the new server, just > copy them?  8 YOu did not say if this is a cluster. I'll assume it is.   CLUSTER ANSWER --------------A You do not need to reinstall anything on a cluster as long as thec@ original install was done taking all the defaults. Just move the@ licenses as I mentioned in the first reply, then stop SLS on all@ nodes, then restart SLS on the new server, then on all the other3 nodes. Be sure to edit the primary node variable in . sys$manager:tapestart.com (see first message).  F If the original CLUSTER install was customized, then I would reinstall> the product, taking default answers to all questions, move theA licenses, edit tapestart.com unless the install does that for you 9 (can't remember), stop SLS and restart SLS. Should go ok.r   STANDALONE NODE ANSWER ----------------------E If you are NOT clustered, then run the full install on the new servero; node. Install a valid SLS (full) license on that node. Edit.B tapestart.com and put this node's nodename in as the primary node. Make sure SLS is stopped.o  A On all client nodes, edit tapestart.com and put in the new server F nodename for the primary node.  Stop SLS on all nodes after this edit.  @ Here's the part I don't know exactly. What files to copy? Sorry. Suggest you call HP.  B You could try moving the directory tree SLS$ROOT:[*...] to the newD node. Here's how I would do it: Do the install, then rename the treeC you got from the install. SLS$root is a logical name,  "SLS$ROOT" =iE "OPS:[SLS$FILES.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE), so for example, I would renamen? ops:[000000]sls$files.dir to ops:[000000]sls$files_install.dir.d  E Then you could move the old tree from the old node, into place on theDB new node.  Start SLS and see if you can use "$ storage sho volume"A commands to see known volume information. If not, it didn't work.e  D If it did work, ADD ONE NEW TAPE TO THE DATABASE. DO THIS ON THE NEWE SERVER NODE BEFORE STARTING SLS ON ANY OTHER NODE. This will give youdE a "marker" to prove to yourself that all the clients are really usinge the new database.i  C If that works, start SLS on the client nodes and try to sho the newi volume you just added.  D I think the worst case, if everything goes bad, you have to uninstal5 and reinstal SLS on the new server node, and call HP.w  
 good luck. dennyh   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 07:14:52 GMTh6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: stupid keyboard questionp5 Message-ID: <MVosa.136925$v62.1384111@news.chello.at>   \ In article <bkt3bvonoo1hn5652h5uj7e7ov0j77jqtk@4ax.com>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:E >On Fri, 2 May 2003 00:13:36 -0400, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote: C >>TCPWARE (and MULTINET) are both available for free to hobbyist's.eB >>(I have TCPWARE at home, since it is what we have at work so I'm >>more used to it.)n >g+ >k, where, how do i get this and a license?e  8 http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html leads after4 http://www.multinet.process.com/license.html to this- http://www.multinet.process.com/register.htmld  G You need a VMS hobbyist license as a requirement for PSC hobbyist PAKs.s   -- p Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERw% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:29:30 +0200e2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)% Subject: Re: stupid keyboard questionr; Message-ID: <3eb22c6a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>t  " Beyonder (beyonder@vrx.net) wrote: > does tcpware have ssh?  . Yup. SSHv1 and v2, except SFTP (soon to come).   cu,n   Martin -- eG So long, and thanks        | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4 for all the books...       | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK In Memoriam Douglas Adams  |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/a;             1952-2001      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de,   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:40:46 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n2 Subject: Synch-on-Green LCD monitor for VaxstationH Message-ID: <iHtsa.66217$w7k.34077@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  E Looking for a recommendation (specific make/model) for an LCD monitordF (15"/17") for use on a VS4000/60 with the mono graphics card (1024x768D @ 72Hz).  I need to temporarily fire-up an old app off-site (machineB currently has no monitor and is at VMS 5.5-2), and figured that itF would be simple enough to just bring an LCD with me for the day or twoB that the app needs to run.  I can always use the LCD for something else later.l  E Most LCD's will happily run at that resolution and refresh rate but I = can't seem to find specs for one that will do synch-on-green.   E Alternatively, if I do manage to get a color graphics card, I presumeoD that the only thing to do after the card swap is to run >>> test 100@ to verify the correct operation of the card, no software changes	 required?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:14:33 +0100r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: Synch-on-Green LCD monitor for Vaxstation( Message-ID: <3EB26F39.99BDBC2@127.0.0.1>   John Smith wrote:t > G > Looking for a recommendation (specific make/model) for an LCD monitorhH > (15"/17") for use on a VS4000/60 with the mono graphics card (1024x768F > @ 72Hz).  I need to temporarily fire-up an old app off-site (machineD > currently has no monitor and is at VMS 5.5-2), and figured that itH > would be simple enough to just bring an LCD with me for the day or twoD > that the app needs to run.  I can always use the LCD for something
 > else later.  > G > Most LCD's will happily run at that resolution and refresh rate but I ? > can't seem to find specs for one that will do synch-on-green.m  E Try iiyama. They definitely have an LDC with 15 pin subD but it copese with sync on green.uA Model 4315 seems to have the right specs. I can't give you a linkiG because the web site is too flashy. Anyway, www.iiyama.co.uk -> SKIP ->a$ products -> LCD flatscreens -> 4315. Also in other countries.   -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:11:23 -0400y* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>6 Subject: Re: Synch-on-Green LCD monitor for Vaxstation/ Message-ID: <3EB2444B.10367.14437F67@localhost>l  G > Looking for a recommendation (specific make/model) for an LCD monitoriH > (15"/17") for use on a VS4000/60 with the mono graphics card (1024x768F > @ 72Hz).  I need to temporarily fire-up an old app off-site (machineD > currently has no monitor and is at VMS 5.5-2), and figured that itH > would be simple enough to just bring an LCD with me for the day or two > that the app needs to run.  D You could use software like Reflections to get a DECwindows session  going on a laptop.  C If there's no graphics in the application, you could always hook a nA PC's serial port to the console port.  You'll need a MMJ to DB-9 c) female adapter.  I've got the pinouts at:S  "    http://www.stanq.com/cable.html  D You could also migrate the VAX application to CHARON-VAX, and ditch  the VAX entirely:h  '    http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.htmlC  D (Note:  This is a shameless commercial plug, since I'm a CHARON-VAX 
 reseller.)
 --Stan Quaylea Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671c1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147t= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com1   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:21:53 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o* Subject: Re: TCP/IP Cluster Alias question; Message-ID: <01KVET08HYAEAM3M2Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  G > I have a cluster running VMS 7.3-1 with TCP/IP services. Each machineeH > has 2 network interface cards. The cluster sits on 2 IP subnets. I wasF > wondering if it is possible to set up TCP/IP to have a cluster alias4 > for each subnet that the computer was attached to. >  > For example:C > The subnets are 192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.x. On the 192.168.1.x ItF > would like users to be able to connect to the cluster alias DSPSRV1,B > and on the other subnet I would like then to connect to DSPSRV2.  ? As far as I know, if you have two ethernet cards, you have two nC completely independent interfaces.  I've never tried the setup you i5 describe, but I would be surprised if it didn't work.l  G You will run into another problem, though.  You have to have a default 9F route for TCPIP.  Outgoing traffic will be routed through the default F route, even if it is "return traffic" from a connection which came in B over the other interface.  You can get around this if you know in I advance who will connect to what interface and enter explicit routes for e these addresses.  H Another way to use both networks is to have one machine on each network.I I have actually done this.  If you have LAT or DECNET running, or if you  G set explicit TCPIP routes from one machine to another, you can connect tC to either machine from outside, going through the other machine if g
 necessary.  F Another possibility would be to have a NAT router set up in reverse.  ; Search this newsgroup for a post by JF Mezei on this topic.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 07:42:27 GMTI6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: TCP/IP Cluster Alias question5 Message-ID: <Djpsa.137177$v62.1390469@news.chello.at>   w In article <01KVET08HYAEAM3M2Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:cH >You will run into another problem, though.  You have to have a default G >route for TCPIP.  Outgoing traffic will be routed through the default lG >route, even if it is "return traffic" from a connection which came in mC >over the other interface.  You can get around this if you know in  J >advance who will connect to what interface and enter explicit routes for  >these addresses.w  A Or let a routing protocol like RIP (done by the ROUTED) or better . like OSPF (done by the GATED) do this for you.  D Rule of thumb is, if you have more than one interface, you're not anF simple endnode anymore and you should behave like a router at least in their information policy...e   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERl% Network and OpenVMS system specialistl E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:46:56 GMTe& From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>* Subject: Re: TCP/IP Cluster Alias question0 Message-ID: <CFN377434860679514@news.cup.hp.com>  O Last time we've tried to solve this problem we were forced to write small app, bL which sets up an alias on one cluster node and checks its activity from the K other (or uses some other way how to find if the other is still alive). As  N soon as it becomes inactive, it sets up the same alias on the second node and  the roles reverts...  * I guess it could be done as a DCL script..   Jirka   E On Fri, 02 May 2003 07:42:27 GMT peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN'   LANGSTOEGER) wrote:e  M > In article <01KVET08HYAEAM3M2Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig e, <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:I >>You will run into another problem, though.  You have to have a default  H >>route for TCPIP.  Outgoing traffic will be routed through the default H >>route, even if it is "return traffic" from a connection which came in D >>over the other interface.  You can get around this if you know in K >>advance who will connect to what interface and enter explicit routes for w >>these addresses. > C > Or let a routing protocol like RIP (done by the ROUTED) or better 0 > like OSPF (done by the GATED) do this for you. > F > Rule of thumb is, if you have more than one interface, you're not anH > simple endnode anymore and you should behave like a router at least in > their information policy...n >  > -- t > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist >    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:05:38 +0100 (MET)g9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> = Subject: URLs (was: RE: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1)e; Message-ID: <01KVEYNE6YWKAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  = > <URL:http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml>   F I've seen this from time to time, enclosing URLs in "<URL:" and ">".  H Does it serve any purpose?  Personally, I like the "raw" form so that I  can just cut and paste.*  G Several years ago, I read news with LYNX for a couple of days.  (I'm a iG big fan of LYNX, but prefer NEWSRDR for reading news, MAIL for reading tC mail etc.)  It automatically converted normal HTTP URLs into "live rH links", email addresses into MAILTO: URLs etc.  Thus, it seems that (at A least for LYNX) the start and end tags aren't necessary for this o functionality.   --------D * What an enormous piece of forethought that the default VMS prompt C character, $, is legal (or even preferred) to start an interactive iH command line!  I usually have another prompt, but have a symbol defined F to convert it to the $ if I will be cutting and pasting some commands!   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2003 11:18:59 -0000e4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>A Subject: Re: URLs (was: RE: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1)-5 Message-ID: <20030502111859.3211.qmail@gacracker.org>e  H On Fri, 02 May 2003, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:> >> <URL:http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml>  H If you've got realplayer installed, wait for the NutriMatic machine. ;-}  G >I've seen this from time to time, enclosing URLs in "<URL:" and ">".  nI >Does it serve any purpose?  Personally, I like the "raw" form so that I - >can just cut and paste.*0  E I can't find the discussion we had on alt.hacker about this, but IIRCRH someone dug out an RFC specifying this as the right way to cite a URL on Usenet.s  H I read news with Xnews <URL:http://xnews.newsguy.com/>, some people even run it on *ix using Wine.@     Doc. -- c6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netXK                                                    http://althacker.cjb.netr   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:25:40 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>A Subject: Re: URLs (was: RE: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1)1+ Message-ID: <b8th36$kfo@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>n  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KVEYNE6YWKAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...-  ? > > <URL:http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml>m >oF > I've seen this from time to time, enclosing URLs in "<URL:" and ">". > Does it serve any purpose?  G Yes. If a long URL is wrapped across multiple lines, your reader shouldi/ discard the whitespace. See RFC2396 Appendix E.n   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:48:01 +0100 (MET)09 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>uA Subject: Re: URLs (was: RE: Case sensitive passwords in 7.2-6 C1)b; Message-ID: <01KVF0CRAP0MAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  A > > > <URL:http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml>e > >pH > > I've seen this from time to time, enclosing URLs in "<URL:" and ">". > > Does it serve any purpose? > I > Yes. If a long URL is wrapped across multiple lines, your reader shouldA1 > discard the whitespace. See RFC2396 Appendix E.Y   Interesting.  So if we write 8  @    <URL: http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml >   then all will be happy?-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 12:06:35 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>V: Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status reportH Message-ID: <fbtsa.65954$w7k.10215@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message> news:pdBla.807$BQi.442@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...A > A little over a week ago, a colleague and I were discussing thesF > current worldwide HP advertising campaign and the lack of mention of> > VMS anywhere in this advertising blitz, in any media, in any country. >dD > So we sat down and wrote up a few comments and questions about VMSD > advertising and marketing and he sent them off to carly, Marcello, and0( > Gorham. In part the comments included, >  >e <snip> >rD > I just wanted to let everyone here know that I will be keeping you alliB > informed on a weekly basis, or sooner, of any responses received from0 > carly and her minions, or Marcello, or Gorham. >, >X  F Just following up at 4 weeks....still no response from HP - other than# from Sue and carly's autoresponder.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:28:00 +020004 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>< Subject: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?& Message-ID: <3EB20FF0.5040909@Free.fr>  J (from http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/government/coe/dii_COE_Faq.html)  :  > Q:  What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?  >J  > A:  We are well into the implementation of the program. We released twoM  > COE-compliant versions of OpenVMS (V7.2-6C1 in August 2001 and V7.2-6C2 inAO  > July 2002). Version 7.2-6C2 has been submitted to DISA in order to start thee8  > official COE certification process in September 2002.    0 Q. Who knows what happened since September 2002?   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:54:38 -0400, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>@ Subject: Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?* Message-ID: <3eb297e8@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   from the product manager:M  F "In early 2003, the Defense Information System Agency (DISA), which isJ responsible for the DII COE program within the U.S. Department of Defense,K ended its DII COE certification program. Later in 2003, other certificationII authorities (including The Open Group) will start their own certificationAJ programs for versions of DII COE subsequent to 4.2.0.0P4. At this time, no: certifying authority exists for DII COE Version 4.2.0.0P4.  J Because of this situation, HP decided to pursue self-certification for itsJ implementation of DII COE Version 4.2.0.0P4 on OpenVMS V7.2-6C2. We are inC the final stages of production of a web page that contains completeeH information that demonstrates substantial compliance of OpenVMS V7.2-6C2 with KPC specifications.  4 May I ask you what was the reason of your research?"    A "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in messagel  news:3EB20FF0.5040909@Free.fr...L > (from http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/government/coe/dii_COE_Faq.html) >.< >  > Q:  What is the schedule for the DII COE certification? >  >L >  > A:  We are well into the implementation of the program. We released twoL >  > COE-compliant versions of OpenVMS (V7.2-6C1 in August 2001 and V7.2-6C2 inG >  > July 2002). Version 7.2-6C2 has been submitted to DISA in order to 	 start theM: >  > official COE certification process in September 2002. >e >v2 > Q. Who knows what happened since September 2002? >t > D. >d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 09:05:32 -05000' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>t> Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ?> Message-ID: <yWusa.3178$c6.3051@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com>   Brian Tillman wrote:M >>Do you know of a freeware tool (MACRO, FORTRAN, PASCAL, C, ...) to get such K >>information (image name, image file identification, ...) in DCL symbols ?  >  >  > From Mark London's BULLETIN: > 1 >         .TITLE  READ_HEADER - Read Image Headert >         .IDENT  /1-001/  > C > ; This subroutine returns the image identification and link time.j > ;i > ; Format:t > ;A= > ;   status.wlc.v = READ_HEADER( ident.wt.ds [,time.wt.ds] )n > ;: > ; Parameters:0 > ;00 > ;   ident       The image identification text. > ;M4 > ;   time        The image link time (text format). >  > * > ;   Date        By              CommentsC > ;  4/10/87      D.E. Greenwood  Originally written by John Miano,A > 24-June-1986 -F > ;                               obtained from April 87 DECUS L&T Sig > Newsletter+ >         .LIBRARY        "SYS$LIBRARY:LIB"V >  >         $DSCDEF  >         $IHDDEF0 >         $IHIDEFM >         $SSDEF >  > ; Argument pointer offsets > ) >         $OFFSET 4,POSITIVE,<IDENT,TIME>: > 2 >         .PSECT READ_HEADER, RD, NOWRT, EXE, LONGC >         .ENTRY READ_HEADER, ^M< R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, R7, R8, R11 >. > L >         CMPL    (AP),#1                 ; Make sure that there is at leastI >         BGEQ    ENOUGH_ARGUMENTS        ;  one argument to this routinei" >         MOVL    #SS$_INSFARG, R0
 >         RETa >  > ENOUGH_ARGUMENTS:i > ( > ; Get the identification of the image. > I >         MOVL    @#CTL$GL_IMGHDRBF, R11  ; R11 - Address of image bufferoI >         MOVL    (R11), R6               ; R6  - Address of image headerp > ( >         CVTWL   IHD$W_IMGIDOFF(R6), R7D >         MOVAB   (R6)[R7], R7            ; R7 - Address of ID Block > C >         CVTBL   IHI$T_IMGID(R7),R0      ; Length of the ID stringt >         MOVL    IDENT(AP), R8 1 >         MOVC5   R0, <IHI$T_IMGID+1>(R7), #32, - 6 >                 DSC$W_LENGTH(R8), @DSC$A_POINTER(R8) >  >         CMPL    (AP), #2 >         BGEQ    RETURN_TIMEN >         MOVZBL  #1, R0
 >         RETa >  > RETURN_TIME: > = > ; Get the time the image was linked and convert it to ASCIIe >  >         $ASCTIM_S - % >                 TIMBUF=@TIME(AP), -r+ >                 TIMADR=IHI$Q_LINKTIME(R7)c > 
 >         RET  >  > .END >   ' I dare say this won't work on an Alpha.r   Chris  -----, Chris Olive  Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporationa Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.242 ************************