1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 04 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 246       Contents: Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?  Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?  Re: Backup procedure...  Re: Backup procedure...  Re: Backup procedure...  Re: Backup procedure...  Re: Backup procedure...  Re: Backup procedure... / Re: DCL coding (was: Re: DCL routine required.) / Re: DCL coding (was: Re: DCL routine required.) / Re: DCL coding (was: Re: DCL routine required.) / Re: DCL coding (was: Re: DCL routine required.)  Digital logo Re: Digital logo Re: Digital logo( Re: Don't Quote Me, was (Re: DCL coding)( Re: Don't Quote Me, was (Re: DCL coding)( Re: Don't Quote Me, was (Re: DCL coding)( Re: Don't Quote Me, was (Re: DCL coding)2 Re: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment???= Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd! = Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd! = Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd! / Re: MicroVAX crash in RMU/RESTORE operations... " TCPIP SMTP bug in relay protection7 Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification? 7 Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 May 03 10:22:08 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) & Subject: Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?) Message-ID: <bx7eJUnqcpaa@elias.decus.ch>   U In article <00A1F514.E649FE1F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: W > In article <XARXzgubsAK$@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: J >>Find a fairly rough pub in Manchester (where Boddies comes from) full ofG >>builders (who are choosy about their beer), and you might change your J >>mind about Boddies :-) You need to go for the "hand pumped" variety, not >>electic or gas driven stuff. >>H >>Ditto for Tetleys/John Smiths/Theakston in Yorkshire, although outsideE >>towns/cities the "rough pub full of builders" does not necessarily   > N > Tetleys was OK.  John Smiths came across as the UK Budweiser of bitters and N > ales.  Theakston (of Old Peculiar fame) is good stuff too.  I rather enjoyedM > sampling of all of the local bitters when frequenting pubs across the south N > of England.  Perhaps next trip we'll traverse parts north of London England;  > at least, a trip to Aylesbury. >   J Not far enough north to find the proper hand pumped variety. "Hand pumped"G in Yorkshire doesn't mean a couple of easy pulls on a handle and a flat C beer. There is a sprinkler in the nozzle of the pump which puts air G rather than CO2 into the beer, and when set to a tight setting it takes I the barperson quite some physical effort to pull a beer. Techniques vary, H but I have seen slightly built barmaids use a straight arm and lean back3 with their entire weight to get the desired effect.   L Done properly, the "head" lasts to the end of the drink, and the foam sticksH to the side of the glass all the way down - you can see how big each sip- was by the pattern of foam left up the glass.     > J >>apply. Recalling your posts about your last visit to the UK, many of theM >>countryside pubs in North England _will_ allow kids in, so long as they are ( >>well behaved / under parental control. > N > My brats are well beyond my control.  I have a difficult time keeping myself$ > well behaved and under control. :) > O > At least the brat left me alone for three days -- to a tune of about 25/day  M > each -- for three days whilst at Butlins in Minehead so I could imbibe with  > friends and enjoy the tunes. >   0 So Butlins _does_ have some merits after all :-)   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 14:04:25 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG& Subject: Re: Anyone here from Dublin ?0 Message-ID: <00A1F5AD.0641B306@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <bx7eJUnqcpaa@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: V >In article <00A1F514.E649FE1F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: {...snip...}1 >So Butlins _does_ have some merits after all :-)   " Only in that Marillion were there.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 14:17:47 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>   Subject: Re: Backup procedure...5 Message-ID: <b930df$f6303$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   < "Shiva MahaDeva" <contracer11@uol.com.br> schreef in bericht7 news:ddf392ea.0305031528.5389f680@posting.google.com... 	 > Hi all: E >   Im looking for a backup procedure to make a backup operation and ? >   put output to my terminal and a output file too. Like this:  > ; >    $ backup/log/noassist/select=(login.com) mkb200:*.* []  >      20100 mounted in mkb200: $ >      now reading b20030401 saveset$ >      now reading b20030402 saveset >         .  >         .  >         .  >      created []login.com;33  > A >   I wanna see all this informations in my terminal and put this 6 >   informations in a output file too. Any sugestion ? >  >   Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 14:22:13 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>   Subject: Re: Backup procedure...5 Message-ID: <b930lp$dsuon$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   < "Shiva MahaDeva" <contracer11@uol.com.br> schreef in bericht7 news:ddf392ea.0305031528.5389f680@posting.google.com... 	 > Hi all: E >   Im looking for a backup procedure to make a backup operation and ? >   put output to my terminal and a output file too. Like this:  > ; >    $ backup/log/noassist/select=(login.com) mkb200:*.* []  >      20100 mounted in mkb200: $ >      now reading b20030401 saveset$ >      now reading b20030402 saveset >         .  >         .  >         .  >      created []login.com;33  > A >   I wanna see all this informations in my terminal and put this 6 >   informations in a output file too. Any sugestion ? >  >   Thanks in advance.J There's no easy way to do this because BACKUP has no built in facility for it. 9 What springs to mind is doing the select operation twice:   ! $! first make a terminal listing: 9 $ backup/log/noassist/select=(login.com) mkb200:*.* NLA0:  $!( $ inquire gadoor "Is this alright [Y] ?" $ if .not.gadoor then exit $! do it again, for real6 $ backup/log/noassist/select=(login.com) mkb200:*.* []  1 If the save set is on a tape then this procedure:  1) will be agonizely slow , 2) fails because the tape is not rewound....   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 15:29:59 +0200 6 From: Adolf Sonderegger <adolf.sonderegger@bluewin.ch>  Subject: Re: Backup procedure...* Message-ID: <3EB515D7.88D16F0B@bluewin.ch>   Shiva MahaDeva wrote:   	 > Hi all: G >   I=B4m looking for a backup procedure to make a backup operation and ? >   put output to my terminal and a output file too. Like this:  > = >    $ backup/log/noassist/select=3D(login.com) mkb200:*.* []  >      20100 mounted in mkb200: $ >      now reading b20030401 saveset$ >      now reading b20030402 saveset >         .  >         .  >         .  >      created []login.com;33  > A >   I wanna see all this informations in my terminal and put this 6 >   informations in a output file too. Any sugestion ? >  >   Thanks in advance.   Hello    It works over DECnet.    $ SET HOST /LOG=3Dlogfile.log 0    Login    $ BACKUP ...     regards  Adolf    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 03 17:12:00 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)   Subject: Re: Backup procedure...) Message-ID: <+Y4L847bRnLP@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <3EB515D7.88D16F0B@bluewin.ch>, Adolf Sonderegger <adolf.sonderegger@bluewin.ch> writes:  >    [snip]   >  > Hello  >  > It works over DECnet.  > ! > $ SET HOST /LOG=3Dlogfile.log 0 !                   ^^            ^   ) What software are you using to post here?   L If you want to post from a Microschrott system, I will suggest either Eudora3 or Virtual Access http://www.atlantic-coast.com/va/   
 Bis Morgen mfg    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 12:05:29 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>   Subject: Re: Backup procedure...< Message-ID: <howard-155D79.12052904052003@enews.newsguy.com>  * In article <3EB515D7.88D16F0B@bluewin.ch>,8  Adolf Sonderegger <adolf.sonderegger@bluewin.ch> wrote:   > It works over DECnet.  >  > $ SET HOST /LOG=logfile.log 0  >  > Login  >  > $ BACKUP ...  ' That's probably the best answer so far.    --  4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 12:25:39 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>   Subject: Re: Backup procedure...< Message-ID: <howard-346C8A.12253904052003@enews.newsguy.com>  ) In article <+Y4L847bRnLP@elias.decus.ch>, +  p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:   ? > In article <3EB515D7.88D16F0B@bluewin.ch>, Adolf Sonderegger  ( > <adolf.sonderegger@bluewin.ch> writes:  # > > $ SET HOST /LOG=3Dlogfile.log 0 # >                   ^^            ^  > + > What software are you using to post here?    It looked okay to me, on Mac.    --  4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 03 10:01:28 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 8 Subject: Re: DCL coding (was: Re: DCL routine required.)) Message-ID: <iBxWlxiuo7y2@elias.decus.ch>   M In article <03050308011561@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes: J >> I have no comments to your code as such, but there are two things that  >> intrigue me:  >>   >> Why do you use: >>  & >> 	flag_first_of_the_month :== "TRUE" >>   >> where >>  $ >> 	flag_first_of_the_month :== TRUE >>   >> or  >>  % >> 	flag_first_of_the_month == "TRUE"  >>   >> Would be enough?  > 9 > Peter or Paul.  I have always used the :== no idea why.  >  >> And why do you use: >>  ; >> 	weekday = f$extract(0,1,f$cvtime("''date'",,"WEEKDAY"))  >>   >> where6 >> 	weekday = f$extract(0,1,f$cvtime(date,,"WEEKDAY")) >>   >> would be enough?  > L > Sure thing.  The you could use date instead of "''date'" - maybe because IE > someimtes do "''date'+1-0" which would not be supported by date+1-0  >   E Something meant to include in my post yesterday - you can concatenate : symbols and strings in lexical parameters, without using '  8 	$ write sys$output f$cvtime (date + "+3-0" ,,"WEEKDAY")
 	Wednesday  @ (and yes, I like to put spaces into lexical calls, so that in an% editor I can jump by word using KP1.)     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 03 10:26:15 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 8 Subject: Re: DCL coding (was: Re: DCL routine required.)) Message-ID: <B7zVwGoyzQKg@elias.decus.ch>   b In article <3eb4266c$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes: > Bart Zorn wrote:   [snip]  J > Just after I prssed the send button of the previous message, I found in M > the original thread of this topic an other example of redundant DCL coding:  > # > $ DAY = F$CVTIME(F$TIME(),,"DAY")  >  > which should have been:  >  > $ DAY = F$CVTIME(,,"DAY")  >  > OK, I am a bigot.  >   / But a bigot whose code is easy to maintain? :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 07:22:42 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com 8 Subject: Re: DCL coding (was: Re: DCL routine required.)1 Message-ID: <03050407224222@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    > > % > > $ DAY = F$CVTIME(F$TIME(),,"DAY")  > >  > > which should have been:  > >  > > $ DAY = F$CVTIME(,,"DAY")  > >  > > OK, I am a bigot.  > >  > 1 > But a bigot whose code is easy to maintain? :-)   N I think the code would not be since the f$cvtime produces the same function as f$time - advanced vs. basic.      ! > > $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''symbol'"  > >  > > It just pisses me off! > 3 > Me too, but it does have its uses in other cases:  >  > $ a = "test message" > $ reply/all 'a' M > %DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters  >  \MESSAGE\ > $ reply/all "''a'" > G > Reply received on MYNODE from user SYSTEM at _MYNODE$FTA4:   10:33:24  > test message  & Why I sometimes use the "''symbol'".      G > Something meant to include in my post yesterday - you can concatenate < > symbols and strings in lexical parameters, without using ' > : > 	$ write sys$output f$cvtime (date + "+3-0" ,,"WEEKDAY") > 	Wednesday > B > (and yes, I like to put spaces into lexical calls, so that in an' > editor I can jump by word using KP1.)   G Hmmm....  spaces in lexicals - sort of why I use multiple () like this:    $ if (x .eqs. y) then goto z   or   $ if x .eqs. y then goto z  1 Both work, though one is easier (for me) to read.       0 I also like to use the full name of the lexical:   $ x = f$extract(0,10,data)   vs.    $ x = f$ext(0,10,data)  O Programming practices on older O/S such as abbreviations and symbol assignments L can account for faster run time, for exampe - on Datapoint using Databus (do. not remember the exact syntax, just guessing):      move 1, one      add one, count    Would be faster than      add 1, count        John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 16:51:09 GMT + From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> 8 Subject: Re: DCL coding (was: Re: DCL routine required.)2 Message-ID: <BADA930C.7D4E%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  G I hate Ranting on news boards, but sometimes I must defend myself, so :    $SET MESSAGE/RANT   F Rant # 1 : I know there are proper uses of "''symbol'". If one read myI article that I had referenced, they would see that I identified where the 1 use is proper and why. I just hate improper uses.   K Rant #2 : I put periods at the end of the sentences, even if it ends in the L use of a url. If I send the message as text (which I did) and I put a url atI the end of a sentence, then it is your software that does not know how to J properly parse a url out of a properly written English sentence and make aG link out of it. The link worked fine with my email/news software. Dont % blame me for your choice of software.   K Rant #3 : Explicitly stating defaults in a command, may be redundant, but I K strongly disagree that it hurts or even diminishes maintainability, because  it :;     1. Clearly states the original programmer's intentions. A     2. Still works in sites where defaults may have been changed. I     3. Makes it clear to the maintainer so he does not have to go look in 9        the documentation to find out what the default is.    $SET MESSAGE/NORANT   
 My apologies.  Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2003 07:49:22 -0700 - From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)  Subject: Digital logo < Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0305040649.e310c84@posting.google.com>   Hi all: B  Where could I get the escape sequences to make the Digital logo ?1  (Id like to put Digital logo in a procedure...) 
  Thanks...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 16:32:38 GMT + From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>  Subject: Re: Digital logo 2 Message-ID: <BADA8EB4.7D4B%JCam90502@jcameron.com>   On 5/4/03 7:49 AM, in article @ ddf392ea.0305040649.e310c84@posting.google.com, "Shiva MahaDeva" <contracer11@uol.com.br> wrote:   	 > Hi all: C > Where could I get the escape sequences to make the Digital logo ? 2 > (Id like to put Digital logo in a procedure...) > Thanks...   G First construct the string digital with spaces between each character :   
 d i g i t a l   @ Then preface each character with the reverse video on sequence : <esc>[7m  @ Then after each character the string to return to normal video : <esc>[m    So in entirety :C <esc>[7md<esc>[m <esc>[7mi<esc>[m <esc>[7mt<esc>[m <esc>[7mi<esc>[m ! <esc>[7ma<esc>[m <esc>[7ml<esc>[m    (ignore the linewrap)  Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 12:22:43 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: Digital logo < Message-ID: <howard-B6B6CA.12224304052003@enews.newsguy.com>  < In article <ddf392ea.0305040649.e310c84@posting.google.com>,/  contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) wrote:   	 > Hi all: D >  Where could I get the escape sequences to make the Digital logo ?3 >  (Id like to put Digital logo in a procedure...)   % Why not make them up?  It's not hard:    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+  | d | i | g | i | t | a | l |  +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+     " ...or did you mean something else?   --  4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 08:44:37 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> 1 Subject: Re: Don't Quote Me, was (Re: DCL coding) 6 Message-ID: <3eb4b6d6$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Jeff Cameron wrote: I > On 5/3/03 1:28 PM, in article 3eb4266c$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl, . > "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> wrote: >  >  >>Bart Zorn wrote: >> >>>brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:  >>>  >>> E >>>>>No it is NOT a typo! I have reread what I wrote and it IS what I I >>>>>mean! Note that the firts line (with a lot of single quotes) has the 
 >>>>>same  >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>oh-oh - firts? >>>> >>>> >>>>H >>>>>effect as the second line. The intention is to get single quotes inE >>>>>the output line, not to have the symbol B substituted before the  >>>>>WRITE is executed.  >>>> >>>> >>>>G >>>>Fine!  What I really want to know is, what the hell is "firts"?  ;)  >>>> >>>>John Brandon >>>>VMS Systems Administrator  >>>>Dallas Semiconductor >>>>john.brandon@dalsemi.com >>>>972.371.4172 wk  >>>>972.371.4003 fx  >>>  >>>  >>> ) >>>OK, OK, the second time I made a typo.  >>> I >>>My point is, there are several ways to get the result you want. But if F >>>you write DCL code containing 4 consecutive single quotes where theF >>>correct coding is only one single quote, I suggest that you do someD >>>testing before write your final version. Three consecutive singleG >>>quotes, or for that matter, two of those outside quoted strings, are ) >>>simply no-ops, and should not be used.  >>>  >>>Bart Zorn >>>  >>>  >>>  >>I >>Just after I prssed the send button of the previous message, I found in M >>the original thread of this topic an other example of redundant DCL coding:  >># >>$ DAY = F$CVTIME(F$TIME(),,"DAY")  >> >>which should have been:  >> >>$ DAY = F$CVTIME(,,"DAY")  >> >>OK, I am a bigot.  >> >>Bart Zorn  >> > 
 > OK Bart! > + > That's my code you are talking about now!  > H > But you are right! It is one of my pet-peves to see either the misuse,H > misunderstanding, and some times ignorance of the use of double singleB > quotes in a double quoted string. The most common one I see is : >  > $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''symbol'"  >  > It just pisses me off! > H > I even wrote a web page article on this topic called, "Don't Quote Me"4 > located at  http://www.jcameron.com/vms/quote.htm. > & > Spread the word! But don't quote me. >  > Jeff Cameron >   . Indeed. But did you ever see the construction:   	$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ''symbol'   L The funny thing that even that works. Probably the writer does not know why!  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 03 10:44:17 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 1 Subject: Re: Don't Quote Me, was (Re: DCL coding) ) Message-ID: <nkksXIjFsEvP@elias.decus.ch>   ` In article <BAD9A550.7D1C%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:   [snip]   > + > That's my code you are talking about now!  > H > But you are right! It is one of my pet-peves to see either the misuse,H > misunderstanding, and some times ignorance of the use of double singleB > quotes in a double quoted string. The most common one I see is : >  > $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''symbol'"  >  > It just pisses me off!  1 Me too, but it does have its uses in other cases:    $ a = "test message" $ reply/all 'a' K %DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters 
  \MESSAGE\ $ reply/all "''a'"  E Reply received on MYNODE from user SYSTEM at _MYNODE$FTA4:   10:33:24  test message   > H > I even wrote a web page article on this topic called, "Don't Quote Me"4 > located at  http://www.jcameron.com/vms/quote.htm. > & > Spread the word! But don't quote me. >   F Please don't end a url with a period. I double clicked on it and got a "Not found" error.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 03 11:03:27 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 1 Subject: Re: Don't Quote Me, was (Re: DCL coding) ) Message-ID: <NIwP5YFNKgD7@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <3EB48161.4CB7239D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   [snip]   >>  0 >> In other cases, that's the only way it works: >>  ' >> $ READ lnm symbol/PROMPT="''symbol'"  >>  $ >> $ READ lnm/KEY="''symbol'" symbol >>   >> $ REQUEST "''symbol'" > 8 > Actually, that's not entirely true. In some cases, ... >  > $ REQUEST &symbol  > I > ..., for example, will produce a desired result, even though it doesn't F > reflect the content of (symbol) in the job log when SET VERIFY is inH > effect. I tested this on "READ lnm/KEY=&symbol" and READ .../PROMPT=&a >   < Aha, that also adresses the problem I just wrote about with    $ REPLY 'symbol'  F But it's still handy to have the interpreted text in the log file, andF not too many folks know about the use of & (think maintainability), so7 I have to think twice before implementing it generally.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 11:35:36 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> 1 Subject: Re: Don't Quote Me, was (Re: DCL coding) 6 Message-ID: <3eb4dee9$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Paul Sture wrote: ] > In article <3EB48161.4CB7239D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >  >>"David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  >  > [snip] >  > 0 >>>In other cases, that's the only way it works: >>> ' >>>$ READ lnm symbol/PROMPT="''symbol'"  >>> $ >>>$ READ lnm/KEY="''symbol'" symbol >>>  >>>$ REQUEST "''symbol'" >>8 >>Actually, that's not entirely true. In some cases, ... >> >>$ REQUEST &symbol  >>I >>..., for example, will produce a desired result, even though it doesn't F >>reflect the content of (symbol) in the job log when SET VERIFY is inH >>effect. I tested this on "READ lnm/KEY=&symbol" and READ .../PROMPT=&a >> >  > > > Aha, that also adresses the problem I just wrote about with  >  > $ REPLY 'symbol' > H > But it's still handy to have the interpreted text in the log file, andH > not too many folks know about the use of & (think maintainability), so9 > I have to think twice before implementing it generally.  >   E For me an important aspect of maintainability is that the constructs  E being used are documented in the standard OpenVMS documentation that  H every OpenVMS user can have. The & symbol substitution is documented in 1 the DCL Dictionary (although a bit hard to find).   ? Combinations of constructs which are documented, but which are  F redundant, should not be used because they make the code less easy to H comprehendand therefore less maintainable. F$CVTIME(F$TIME(),,"DAY") is ! an example of such a combination.   	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 15:41:08 GMT 0 From: "Stephen Eickhoff" <operagost@example.com>; Subject: Re: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment??? B Message-ID: <owata.597$n4.261@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net>  + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message , news:b91gvc$ark$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... > Mike Rechtman wrote: > > Alan Adams wrote:  > > 6 > >>In message <oUaScVmvHdrI@eisner.encompasserve.org>: > >>          young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote: > >> > >>H > >>>In article <b1ucg0$16iqdu$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  > >>> H > >>>>"Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> schreef in bericht 3 > >>>>news:Or0vo3cSBshP@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > >>>>K > >>>>>Our data center is gradually getting warmer? Global warming from the  ozone C > >>>>>layer has been ruled out :-) We're likely maxing out our air 
 conditioning.  > >>>>> K > >>>>>I've been ordered to come up with a list of heat load for all of our  DEC / L > >>>>>Compaq / HP equipment in our data center. I used to know where to get thatI > >>>>>info: the "Systems and Options Catalog". That covers my old stuff,  like > >>>>>2100, 4100, and 8400. > >>J > >>Not the answer, but some caveats to apply when looking for the answer. > >>J > >>There are two (useful) ratings for a piece of equipment - fuse rating, and F > >>running current. When equipment is switched on, there is an inrush current,G > >>which does things like charge up power supply capacitors, and start  motors. F > >>The fusing rating wil allow for this. The running current may be a	 factor of L > >>ten or more less than this. Most equipment has the fusing rating printed onJ > >>the back. The running load is harder to find. For air conditioning you need> > >>the running current. For a UPS you need the fusing rating. > >>H > >>Anecdote: We had a Compaq rack with two DS20E's in it. Our new owner decided I > >>to uprate it, sent it off, and it came back with dual processors, 1GB  ram,F > >>and a Storageworks array (whose designation I forget) full of 18GB disks, > >>approx 0.8TB in total. > >>L > >>We plugged it in to the 16amp 240volt socket (this is in the UK) and the+ > >>circuit tripped - at the 30amp breaker.  > >>J > >>We plugged the equipment into a PAT (portable appliance) tester, which blew, / > >>along with the circuit it was running from.  > >>J > >>Compaq were unable to tell us the inrush for the equipment. The fusingL > >>figures were not particularly helpful as the shelf figures depend on theH > >>disks used. Eventually we provided a dedicated circuit, with a mainsI > >>recorder, and got it running. The inrush was 160amps. This is because  all L > >>the disk drives started up at once, and there were about 40 of them. TheE > >>equipment will run continuously on a 32 Amp circuit, provided the  circuit L > >>will handle the inrush. The operating procedure after a power cut is now toG > >>turn off all the internal breakers, power up the room, then turn on  subsets K > >>of the equipment in stages, in particular switching on the disk shelves B > >>separately. This means that no automatic recovery is possible. > >>H > >>(Note that this was done by the new owner while I was working out my> > >>voluntary redundancy period. It caused me some amusement.) > >>J > >>Those of us who remember RA81/82 will no doubt also remember the powerL > >>sequencing cables, which caused the disks to spin uo one at a time so as not E > >>to shut down the site. It seems to me this technology needs to be 
 reinvented > >>for raid arrays. > G > No it doesn't. Quite often this is a setting in the raid array setup.   J In fact, it's a feature of every SCSI-II disk I've ever seen. Both SCA andH 50/68 pin drives have a jumper or lead that turns on delayed start. WithG delayed start, each drive spins up their SCSI ID number's seconds after I power up. The other option is to disable auto start on each drive, and to L configure the controller to send start up commands. As each drive is scanned by the BIOS it will spin up.  7 I don't understand why this wasn't suggested by Compaq.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 04:01:20 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>F Subject: Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd!2 Message-ID: <w6ycnV5ISNJJVSmjXTWcpw@metrocast.net>  2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4040ED020@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. Bill,   F <<< How, exactly?  You made an assertion (which I quoted above, so youF can once again see *exactly* what that assertion was), and I asked forG evidence to back it up.  Your assertion was not that I had flouted some H expectations set by the group's originator (which also remains in doubt,B since you've provided neither the details of such expectations norE evidence that they did not lapse when the group eventually decided to H makes its activities public), but that I had broken a specific agreement that *I* had made.>>>   G And my response was the to provide the following extract from the first  moderator email   A I give up, Kerry:  you're clearly as stupid as you are dishonest.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 04:43:33 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>F Subject: Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd!) Message-ID: <3EB4D2A3.B1DC6C7D@istop.com>   K As an aside:  Apple is set to unveil a 64 bit version of MAC OS-X this June % that will run on the IBM Power chip.    Q So, Apple will have its consumer machines move to 64 bit version of its Power-PC. 3 AMD will offer a 64 bit 8086 for consumer products.   M The pressure on Intel to release a 64 bit 8086 will be growing in my opinion.   I Either that, or Intel will have to review its decision to abandon IA64 on N desktop and find some way to make IA64 cost/performance competitive real fast.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2003 05:35:01 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)F Subject: Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305040435.58282525@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3EB4D2A3.B1DC6C7D@istop.com>... M > As an aside:  Apple is set to unveil a 64 bit version of MAC OS-X this June ' > that will run on the IBM Power chip.   > S > So, Apple will have its consumer machines move to 64 bit version of its Power-PC. 5 > AMD will offer a 64 bit 8086 for consumer products.  > O > The pressure on Intel to release a 64 bit 8086 will be growing in my opinion.  > K > Either that, or Intel will have to review its decision to abandon IA64 on P > desktop and find some way to make IA64 cost/performance competitive real fast.  5 the apple heads blew it long ago when they could have 2 been on alpha long ago ... if they would have went0 with dec and made a nice front end for vms, they3 would have become a major player, now they are just 4 a niche market alternative to windoze ... they could" have been 64 bit 8 or 9 years ago!   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2003 09:18:05 -0700 - From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) 8 Subject: Re: MicroVAX crash in RMU/RESTORE operations...= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0305040818.55fad67e@posting.google.com>   H Is there any way to bypass this limitation ? I cant switch to VMS v6.0.8 Is there any way to divide one 9.1 GB HD in two 4.5 GB ?	 Thanks...       f David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote in message news:<c07ravglbfgvqalh75lo95i39rj1ppbcng@4ax.com>...Q > On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:45:43 -0400 (EDT), Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>  > wrote: >  > > D > >The 1gb limit is only an issue during booting, since the firmwareH > >routines wrap accesses around 1gb.. once the system is running, thoseO > >routines are not used anymore. i think he's hitting a filesystem size limit.  > > 
 > >Isildur > M > If I understand your post correctly, I disagree. VMS V5.5-2 is limited to a Q > 24-bit LBN. Here is the info from the V6.0 Release Notes, when this restriction  > was removed: > 1 >   2.2.21 Volume Size-Maximum Increased to 2**31  >  > V6.0 > ; >   In previous versions of OpenVMS, the maximum size of an ; >   individual volume supported by the file system was lim- > >   ited to 2**24 blocks (approximately 16,000,000 blocks or 8: >   GigaBytes). In Version 6.0, the maximum supported vol-> >   ume size has been increased to 2**31 blocks (approximately@ >   2,000,000,000 blocks or 1 TeraByte.) While there are no sin-C >   gle disks of this size available, it is possible to construct a E >   logical volume of this size using striping or similar techniques.  > ? >   Note that in a volume set, the size limit applies individu- ? >   ally to each member of a volume set. Thus, in theory, it is C >   now possible to construct a volume set with a total size of 255  >   TeraBytes. > P > My experience with several systems which ignored this and used larger disks isL > that, eventually, disk corruption will occur when you try to access an LBNB > beyond the 2**24 boundary and "wrap around" on top of low LBN's.K > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- K > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com K > Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)LK > -------------------------------------------------------------------------C   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 05:03:53 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: TCPIP SMTP bug in relay protectionD) Message-ID: <3EB4D777.916828B5@istop.com>L  % TCPIP Services 5.3 ECO 2, VAX VMS 7.2L  F SMTP service define with RELAY: ON and with a list of Good-Clients and local-aliases set.  & Used telnet:relay-test.mail-abuse.org   ! The test failed on the 14th test:f  1 RCPT TO : <@some.host.name:nobody@mail-abuse.org>t8 250 <@some.host.name:nobody@mail-abuse.org> Recipient OK  J The test then declares it "vulnerable" because the SMTP server should haveI considered this an attempt to relay mail from outside  to another outsidec domain "mail-abuse-org".  N In effect, the test script uses the reverse translation of your IP address forI "some.host.name". But interestingly, for my new IP, there isn't a forwardyH translation for it (yet), so the SMTP server had absolutely no reason toS accept that message since neither "some.host.name" nor "mail-abuse.org" were local.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2003 05:47:25 -0700l( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)@ Subject: Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305040447.842940d@posting.google.com>  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3EB475E6.9E8EE55E@istop.com>...e > N > Where did you head that VMS on that IA64 thing has a 20 year commitment ? WeN > don't even know if IA64 will survice the next few years depending on whetherO > Intel is forced to produce a 64 bit 8086 to compate against Opteron. And that 8 > says nothing about HP's lack of enthousiasm about VMS. >   < you can't run high end on a oopsteron or any other x86 chip!8 why do you think IBM has gone ahead with power?  itanium: will survive and compete very well if Intel uses the alpha: technology and design team and incorporates EV8-9 features> into it, but if they get the NIH (not invented here) syndrome,= then they may not make it, then power would own the high end.r9 Alot of these companies that have processors would rather : steal alpha stuff and claim it as their own because of NIH8 syndrome (i.e. hyperthreading) ... it still doesn't make: sense why samsung or cray or someone didn't buy alpha when9 Palmer supposedly offered it up for sale?  I guess no onee1 wanted to be the leader in high end computing ...e   > N > The way I heard the DII stuff is that Compaq committed to suporting EXISTINGL > systems on contract to thsoe customers requiring the commitment. I.E. if aJ > department of US defence orders a VMS systems for planes and develops anL > application that runs VMS 7.2 on hardware X, it would sign a contract withF > Compaq to ensure long term support of that particular configuration. > P > The way I heard Marcello speak, only those siging contracts would benefit fromM > that, others would be stuck with preior version support stuff as we know it 	 > today. h > N > So if i were you, I would get something on paper from HP on exactly what itsW > commitment is, and what compensation HP will give you when it breaks that commitment.o > R > > However, if the future of VMS is not that clear (but a special 7.2 version for > N > If your customer writes his own applications and does not rely on Digital orI > 3rd party applications (eg: just compilers), then I'd say VMS is a goodrJ > platform. If the customer relies on 3rd party applications or on DigitalN > layered products, then you have to worry about the lack of marketing becauseM > those products will likely be retired and further development made on other  > (Unix) platforms.y >  > L > > following my conscience - suggest my Customer to think about IBM pSeriesM > > 650/Linux systems which seem, to me, to be the only valid, attractive andbN > > serious solution to replace VAX/VMS systems for the kind of development my > > Customer is doing. > 1 > Why do you think Linux would survive 25 years ?c >  > N > 25 years from now, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft will be where Novell4 > is today. A former "monopoly" that is now obscure.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2003 05:57:33 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)@ Subject: Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305040457.16f171a@posting.google.com>  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3EB475E6.9E8EE55E@istop.com>...v > N > If your customer writes his own applications and does not rely on Digital orI > 3rd party applications (eg: just compilers), then I'd say VMS is a good J > platform. If the customer relies on 3rd party applications or on DigitalN > layered products, then you have to worry about the lack of marketing becauseM > those products will likely be retired and further development made on otheru > (Unix) platforms.c >   : VMS will never be retired!  At worse case, it will have to8 be sold, because if HP ever tried that, they would never7 sell another HP labeled product (printer) ever again tom: angry VMS customers ... IBM or Dell would get our business if that ever happened!   > 1 > Why do you think Linux would survive 25 years ?. >   < linux will be lucky to survive the next 10 ... it's garbage!   > N > 25 years from now, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft will be where Novell4 > is today. A former "monopoly" that is now obscure.  ? Micro$oft is already obscure ... they also blew it by trying toa= steal VMS instead of putting windoze on top of it and getting > rid of dos ... they also could have been 64 bit 5 years ago on? alpha, and had a bigger stake in the high end ... now as far as : I am concerned, it is just a browser/imap client behind a ! firewall, and a poor one at that!!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.246 ************************