1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 10 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 258       Contents:% AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem ) Re: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem ) Re: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem B Re: Another Book from Digital Press - Getting Started with OpenVMS Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question . Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS. Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS. Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS. Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS. Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS% DEC TCP/IP Services 5.3 for Hobbyist? ) Re: DEC TCP/IP Services 5.3 for Hobbyist?  Re: DECNET node deletionA Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary? A Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary? A Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary? A Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary? A Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary? ! Re: Go to an AS/400 from VAX/VMS? ! RE: Go to an AS/400 from VAX/VMS? < Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd< Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd< Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd* Re: How to determine boot device from DCL?* Re: How to determine boot device from DCL?3 Re: HP's 'Adaptive Enterprise' advertising campaign 3 Re: HP's 'Adaptive Enterprise' advertising campaign G Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly  Large Vax requiredP Re: Not fixed yet but still trying: Problems changing from serial port to DecSer' Re: OpenVMS Memory/Performance Question P OT - PVS (was Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary?) Re: Problem with VMSTAR archive  Re: PRODUCT behaviour warning  Re: Spamfilter for OpenVMS?  Splitting cluster  Re: Splitting cluster  Re: Splitting cluster G Re: TPC-C was: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd . Re: Using ALLOCLASS=1 and fiber channel disks?. Re: Using ALLOCLASS=1 and fiber channel disks? VMS::Librarian7 Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification? 7 Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?  Re: Where is VMSBACKUP? < Re: [Fwd: OpenVMS Pearl - VAXscan is now available on Alpha]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 06:14:15 -0400 0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com>. Subject: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem/ Message-ID: <vbpk74sin2cg2e@corp.supernews.com>    Group:  L I have just received 2 AlphaStations (a 255/400 and a 255/500) and am havingH some problems.  When I try to turn either of the boxes on they will veryG briefly run, maybe half a second to a second and then shut down.  I was G thinking power supply but I find it strange that both boxes do the same  thing.  Any ideas ?    Thanks   Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 05:25:57 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)2 Subject: Re: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305100425.61cda074@posting.google.com>   g "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<vbpk74sin2cg2e@corp.supernews.com>...  > Group: > N > I have just received 2 AlphaStations (a 255/400 and a 255/500) and am havingJ > some problems.  When I try to turn either of the boxes on they will veryI > briefly run, maybe half a second to a second and then shut down.  I was I > thinking power supply but I find it strange that both boxes do the same  > thing.  Any ideas ?  >  > Thanks >  > Alan  9 you are thinking right ... and you are batting 2 for 2 on  power supplies ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:45:34 GMT ) From: bob smith <sfmc68@bellatlantic.net> 2 Subject: Re: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem/ Message-ID: <3EBCF4AA.7080807@bellatlantic.net>    Bob Ceculski wrote: i > "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<vbpk74sin2cg2e@corp.supernews.com>...  >  >>Group: >>N >>I have just received 2 AlphaStations (a 255/400 and a 255/500) and am havingJ >>some problems.  When I try to turn either of the boxes on they will veryI >>briefly run, maybe half a second to a second and then shut down.  I was I >>thinking power supply but I find it strange that both boxes do the same  >>thing.  Any ideas ?  >> >>Thanks >> >>Alan >  > ; > you are thinking right ... and you are batting 2 for 2 on  > power supplies ...  A but on these systems, isn't there a fan interlock with power too? E Not to dispute the PS theory - probability of pretty close to 1 that  E this is the problem - there are some other little gotchas with these  F beasts too.  Dust can hose up the fans.  So, replacing supply without E clearing out dust will just necessiate quick replacement of PS again.  vr bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 07:45:58 +0200 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>K Subject: Re: Another Book from Digital Press - Getting Started with OpenVMS & Message-ID: <3EBC9216.2020500@Free.fr>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > From: Skonetski, Susan  % > Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 11:43 AM  > To: Skonetski, SusanB > Subject: OpenVMS Pearl to end the week ANOTHER OpenVMS Book from. > Digital Press - Getting Started with OpenVMS >  > C > Another Book from Digital Press, this is great news for everyone.  > 6 > Getting Started with OpenVMS - A Guide for New Users > Written by Michael D. Duffy    Life passes.  L I submitted the very same book to Digital Press two or three years ago. The Q answer from the Editor Commitee was "We have already some books on VMS and we do  0 not see any business opportunity for a new one".  F I answered: "yes, but I'm a consultant and I would like to give it an J "experience" look, i.e. more subjective than objective, with war stories, 9 personal examples of the life of the VMS consultant, etc"   O They replied (more or less, I do not have their mail under the eyes): "this is  E not our publishing approach. We publish technical books, not novels".    Good luck, Michael.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:01:15 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Backup question2 Message-ID: <b9iini$gji$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Dirk Munk wrote:1 > I made two image backups to one tape like this:  > $ > backup/image dka0: mka500:dka0.bck( > backup/image dka200: mka500:dka200.bck > # > Both backup sets are on the tape. 3 > I was able to verify that with dir MKA400: /size.  > ? > Now I want to extract some files from the dka200.bck saveset. , > But somehow I can't get backup to do that. > 
 > I tried: > 5 > backup mka500:dka200.bck /select= etc. but no luck.  > * > I get the response dka200.bck not found. > ! > Can somone tell me what to do ?  >  > Thanks.... >   % Thank you all for your contributions.   0 This is the way I was able to extract the files:   mount /for mka500:  I set mag mka500: /skip=files:2   (the tape labels are also seen as a file)   5 now the tape is positioned at the start of dka200.bck   P backup mka500:/select=(.....)   (no specification of the name of the backup kit)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 15:56:04 +0100 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>  Subject: Re: Backup question8 Message-ID: <rc4qbvg5c2qqq5d08a0jvhj15ip1jpv3sa@4ax.com>  C On Sat, 10 May 2003 12:01:15 +0200, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:   & >Thank you all for your contributions. > 1 >This is the way I was able to extract the files:  >  >mount /for mka500:  > J >set mag mka500: /skip=files:2   (the tape labels are also seen as a file) > 6 >now the tape is positioned at the start of dka200.bck > Q >backup mka500:/select=(.....)   (no specification of the name of the backup kit)   H You could have issued a backup/list command to effectively skip over theG first saveset, followed by the backup command without the name, too.  A H missing file-spec is taken to mean "the next saveset" for everything you were trying to do.  H I wonder what the real problem was ?  Case-sensitivity or a 0/O mismatch seems a possibility.     	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 18:59:54 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Backup question2 Message-ID: <b9jb8k$jfe$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   John Laird wrote: E > On Sat, 10 May 2003 12:01:15 +0200, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:  >  > ' >>Thank you all for your contributions.  >>2 >>This is the way I was able to extract the files: >> >>mount /for mka500: >>K >>set mag mka500: /skip=files:2   (the tape labels are also seen as a file)  >>7 >>now the tape is positioned at the start of dka200.bck  >>R >>backup mka500:/select=(.....)   (no specification of the name of the backup kit) >  > J > You could have issued a backup/list command to effectively skip over theF > first saveset, followed by the backup command without the name, too.  ! I agree, but Skip is much faster.     L > A missing file-spec is taken to mean "the next saveset" for everything you > were trying to do. > J > I wonder what the real problem was ?  Case-sensitivity or a 0/O mismatch > seems a possibility.  N I'm not quite sure yet, but it seems to be a real bug that was supposed to be M resolved by the latest Fibrechannel-SCSI patch. That is what our HP software  P engineer told me this morning. However I had this patch installed and still had Q the problem. On Monday we will look into this and I will report my findings here.    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:12:17 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 7 Subject: Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS ' Message-ID: <3EBCDE91.80B1A1FB@aaa.com>    Keith Parris wrote: ) > Current roadmaps talk about 8.2 on VAX.    Where is that roadmap ?   > I'v got information (from a HP dealer) that "next" VMS version% will be the last version for Alpha...   	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 09:34:10 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS 3 Message-ID: <38+98L7zEPke@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3EBCDE91.80B1A1FB@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  > Keith Parris wrote: * >> Current roadmaps talk about 8.2 on VAX. >  > Where is that roadmap ?  > @ > I'v got information (from a HP dealer) that "next" VMS version' > will be the last version for Alpha...   7 Please report the name of that dealer to Sue Skonetski.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 14:55:00 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 7 Subject: Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS I Message-ID: <8p8va.134690$w7k.51439@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:38+98L7zEPke@eisner.encompasserve.org... 2 > In article <3EBCDE91.80B1A1FB@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik2 =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: > > Keith Parris wrote: , > >> Current roadmaps talk about 8.2 on VAX. > >  > > Where is that roadmap ?  > > B > > I'v got information (from a HP dealer) that "next" VMS version) > > will be the last version for Alpha...  > 9 > Please report the name of that dealer to Sue Skonetski.   > And thereby removing  a channel for selling VMS, probably in aD metropolitan area where nobody else is doing *anything* to sell VMS.D Sometimes it's better to deal with the devil you know (the VAR) than1 the one that's worse (HP's Marketing Department).    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 15:25:49 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 7 Subject: Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS J Message-ID: <1S8va.134773$w7k.122668@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:dWEmyFkaiwsU@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > In article <01KVP1K7NGU2AKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip 3 Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:  >  > > F > >> The whole idea of the Unix Portability Initiative is to allow theE > >> entire suite of Unix applications to simply build-and-go on VMS, E > >> unmodified.  That allows anyone who would select a Unix or Linux C > >> solution to pick VMS as the platform for the applications they  need to 	 > >> run.  > > D > > OK.  Of course, this means that one has all the disadvantages of unixD > > unmodified as well, or at least many of them.  Surely VMS should haveD > > not just some glorifed POSIX kit, but should ALSO cater to folks who = > > want to write applications which make use of the specific  strengths of > > VMS. > 4 > But I think the idea is to pick up source code and: > compile and create VMS binaries.  keeping costs down andB > removing a argument against VMS.  (i.e. source code - no touch). > 9 > Ideally?  Ground zero write app targeted *specifically* ; > for VMS and VMS only?  Okay.  Very small number of folks.     ; A couple of years ago it was suggested to Dale Howard that, A ".... in addition to the discounts you offer through your various F partner programs that you consider giving away hardware (low-end AlphaE servers/workstations) that are 'last-generation' old - ones you still F have unsold in inventory but are written down in value. Just make sureD that they are reloaded with the latest version of VMS and tools. GetF Oracle/Sybase, etc... to grant a 6 month free license for VMS versionsD of their products to ensure that they have a representative sampling. of currently a available tools/apps under VMS.  > Give them free to developers who give you a commitment to portB applications and tools (whether they are large or small). Make theC deal that the app has to be available within 6 months else they pay F the estimated book value of the hardware only at the 6 month time. eg.? say a last-generation workstation is worth $5,000 today and the B estimated value in 6 months is $2,000, use the $2,000 value as theA buyout price. Or just give them away in exchange for a promise to  port."  D and that certain books be commissioned, even if they had to be given away rather than sold...  ; "For instance, there is no publication that deals with say, A 'Reliable Web Servers Start with the Operating System - OpenVMS & E Apache/WebLogic/etc.. (choose your favorite) - A Practical Guide'; or   B 'OpenVMS and Heterogeneous n-Tier Architecture & Applications', or  > 'Cold War Detente - OpenVMS and Unix Peaceful Co-Existence'. "  A A book that should be written and given away to board-level types F should deal with disaster tolerance, business interruption, liability,7 and all the practical business implications that holds.   F Now at least a couple of books have appeared in the market relating toA web servers and VMS lately. HP should buy up several railway cars C worth of these books and give them out free on university and large C technical high school campuses all over the world. They should send A copies to the top 10 technical and CTO people at every account HP C deals with directly, whether they are a VMS customer, HP-UX, Tru64,  NSK, linux, or Billyware user.  D HP should be announcing that they will be building/hosting their ownA DR facilities across the country for VMS which customers can have D access to in case of disaster, because places like Sungard typically$ don't want to deal with VMS anymore.     And Rob,  @ it's all very well and good that the Unix Portability InitiativeB exists, but it sort of reminds me of the line(s) in the movie 'Dr.C Strangelove' which goes like this: "The whole point of the Doomsday @ Machine is lost if you keep it a secret. Why didn't you tell the) world?"  (page 99 in my copy of the book)   D I guess in the case of the Unix Portability Initiative it's the muchD vaunted HP Marketing Machine inaction (no mistake that there isn't a@ space between 'in' and 'action'). This sort of thing ought to beD appearing in advertising, but since there is no VMS advertising.....  B And before you try to pillory me and say that there has been ampleB 'public' disclosure...go to www.hp.com and enter "Unix PortabilityE Initiative" in the search box.. There are a few links to a PowerPoint > slide show from 2002 and to a DII-COE statement. Just how manyD potential VMS customer do you suppose know about any of this outsideE of the existing VMS customer base? Isn't this something that ought to  be known by a wider audience?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:27:37 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)7 Subject: Re: Computerworld: HP continues to support VMS L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1005031227380001@user-uinj56i.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <8p8va.134690$w7k.51439@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, $ "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  ; >"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message . >news:38+98L7zEPke@eisner.encompasserve.org...3 >> In article <3EBCDE91.80B1A1FB@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik 3 >=?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  >> > Keith Parris wrote:- >> >> Current roadmaps talk about 8.2 on VAX.  >> > >> > Where is that roadmap ? >> >C >> > I'v got information (from a HP dealer) that "next" VMS version * >> > will be the last version for Alpha...  F Well, HP has already states plans for VMS 7.3-2 and 8.2 on alpha.  TheH dealer is either confused or a liar.  V7.3-2 will be the last Alpha-onlyJ release, from what I have heard.  8.0 and 8.1 will be "early" releases forH IA64 (similar to 1.0 and 1.5 on alpha), and then starting with 8.2 AlphaH and IPF VMS will be released together.  None of this is particularly new information.  : >> Please report the name of that dealer to Sue Skonetski. > ? >And thereby removing  a channel for selling VMS, probably in a E >metropolitan area where nobody else is doing *anything* to sell VMS. E >Sometimes it's better to deal with the devil you know (the VAR) than 2 >the one that's worse (HP's Marketing Department).  1 Another brave post from the anonymous John Smith.   G What do you suppose Sue would do, smite the dealer from the face of the ? Earth?  She would certainly attempt to contact him and give him I up-to-date, accurate information regarding VMS.  How would that "remove a  channel for selling VMS"?   A Please explain how a "dealer" spreading false information through J intermediaries is of any use to the VMS community.  Especially a dealer as% out-of-touch as this one seems to be.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 May 2003 23:46:11 -0700 $ From: aw@ioc3.de (Andreas W. Wylach). Subject: DEC TCP/IP Services 5.3 for Hobbyist?= Message-ID: <e951e78f.0305092246.5491edbf@posting.google.com>    Hello everybody,  C I am just in the process to build up my private VMS environment und 7 was asking myself, why the Hobbyist CD just got TCP/IP   Version 5.1 (OpenVMS VAX).L Does anybody know, when the 5.3 Version is available for the Hobbyist peops?J Or is there probably a upgrade download somewhere to get the newest TCP/IP Version?    Thanks in advance for the hints.  
 greetings, Andreas W. Wylach  (aw@IOc3.de)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:19:42 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)2 Subject: Re: DEC TCP/IP Services 5.3 for Hobbyist?- Message-ID: <x76va.800186$F1.99398@sccrnsc04>   d In article <e951e78f.0305092246.5491edbf@posting.google.com>, aw@ioc3.de (Andreas W. Wylach) writes: >Hello everybody,  > D >I am just in the process to build up my private VMS environment und8 >was asking myself, why the Hobbyist CD just got TCP/IP  >Version 5.1 (OpenVMS VAX). M >Does anybody know, when the 5.3 Version is available for the Hobbyist peops? K >Or is there probably a upgrade download somewhere to get the newest TCP/IP 	 >Version?   N If you feel restricted because you don't have the "latest and greatest", check- out the TCP/IP stacks offered by Process.com:   , http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html  I I am running my Alpha hobbyist machine with the latest TCPware stack from J Process.  Good stack, good folks.  They also offer MultiNet, another stack6 which is probably more popular, judging from NG input.   > ! >Thanks in advance for the hints.  >  >greetings,  >Andreas W. Wylach
 >(aw@IOc3.de)   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 03 12:05:17 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ! Subject: Re: DECNET node deletion ) Message-ID: <vvV8hVcroNp2@elias.decus.ch>   ~ In article <b9e8md$js9$2$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, "systematipltoddemontodcotoduk" <system@ipldot.demondot.codot.uk> writes: > Bob, > N > Once you've done the deletion and registration in decnet_register.exe, don't* > forget to do the purging of the database > 7 > $ mc ncl flush session control naming cache entry "*"  >  > off the top of my head....K > If you don't flush the cache you'll still appear to have the registration ( > live and even a reboot won't clear it! >    The top of your head works :-)   But I do it the lazy way:        $ mc ncl help flush   9 then copy/paste that command from the subsequent display.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 03 11:47:10 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) J Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary?) Message-ID: <kxCvHpuWcMq7@elias.decus.ch>   V In article <3EBA9BBC.16900539@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Jenny Butler wrote: J >>      The learning curve is a little steep, but once you get used to the
 >> Phase VO >>  NCL, it's not too bad.  However, if you don't need to do it, it's not worth 
 >>  the trip.  > O > From a business point of view, how much time (money) will you and others have N > to spend learning NCL and all its quirks, how much time will you be fiddlingL > to avoid all the unnecessary OPCOM messages and generally tune 5 to behave > like what you really need ?  >   J Just my 2 cents. I started out hating Phase V, but have come to appreciate it.     P > And what will 5 give you that 4 doesn't give you in terms of what you actually > need ? > M > If 5 doesn't give you anything of value in your environment, can you really E > justify spending time/money learning/installing/fiddling with  it ?  --     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 03 12:00:46 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) J Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary?) Message-ID: <D6FLjSctJlPC@elias.decus.ch>   V In article <3EBA9BBC.16900539@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Jenny Butler wrote: J >>      The learning curve is a little steep, but once you get used to the
 >> Phase VO >>  NCL, it's not too bad.  However, if you don't need to do it, it's not worth 
 >>  the trip.  > O > From a business point of view, how much time (money) will you and others have N > to spend learning NCL and all its quirks, how much time will you be fiddlingL > to avoid all the unnecessary OPCOM messages and generally tune 5 to behave > like what you really need ?  >   E My 2 cents. I started out hating Phase V. I found the manuals lacking G in examples, for starters, and my predecessor had presumably walked off  with half the manual set.   H However, with time you do get used to it, and it isn't as bad as variousK posters here often claim. My breakthrough came one morning when the network I guys powered off a load of kit and I found that none of it would MOP load J again. It was a struggle, but I beat the consultant who was there to teach8 us about it to the post in getting the network up again.  J After that, I was no longer afraid of it. My experience since demonstratesI that inheriting someone else's setup is a real pain, but installing it on 0 a virgin system is really quite straightforward.  P > And what will 5 give you that 4 doesn't give you in terms of what you actually > need ? > M > If 5 doesn't give you anything of value in your environment, can you really E > justify spending time/money learning/installing/fiddling with  it ?   " The cost of prior version support?   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 14:17:38 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>J Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary?2 Message-ID: <b9iqna$uu6$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Paul Sture wrote: X > In article <3EBA9BBC.16900539@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >  >>Jenny Butler wrote:  >>J >>>     The learning curve is a little steep, but once you get used to the
 >>>Phase VO >>> NCL, it's not too bad.  However, if you don't need to do it, it's not worth 
 >>> the trip.  >>O >>From a business point of view, how much time (money) will you and others have N >>to spend learning NCL and all its quirks, how much time will you be fiddlingL >>to avoid all the unnecessary OPCOM messages and generally tune 5 to behave >>like what you really need ?  >> >  > G > My 2 cents. I started out hating Phase V. I found the manuals lacking I > in examples, for starters, and my predecessor had presumably walked off  > with half the manual set.  > J > However, with time you do get used to it, and it isn't as bad as variousM > posters here often claim. My breakthrough came one morning when the network K > guys powered off a load of kit and I found that none of it would MOP load L > again. It was a struggle, but I beat the consultant who was there to teach: > us about it to the post in getting the network up again. > L > After that, I was no longer afraid of it. My experience since demonstratesK > that inheriting someone else's setup is a real pain, but installing it on 2 > a virgin system is really quite straightforward. >  > : I agree. Sure, Phase IV is simpler, but Phase V is better.   Why?  
 It is faster.   O The wealth of information you can get by studying the counters etc. in all the  N OSI layers can point you directly to problems in your setup. I was very happy 2 with that when I had to optimize X.25 connections.  D You can have more then one ethernet interface on line in a switched Q architecture. Very important in high availability situations, or when you need a  O high network througput. (In that case you can only have one interface in Phase   IV compatibility mode).   O A better and OSI/ISO normalized routing protocol, link state instead of vector  " routing. Far less routing traffic.  > The possibilty to use a native IP stack, and not an IP tunnel.  O If you like or need it, you can build a central DECdns database. No more local   databases to maintain.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 05:29:06 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)J Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305100429.7c139309@posting.google.com>   Z p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<D6FLjSctJlPC@elias.decus.ch>... > > O > > If 5 doesn't give you anything of value in your environment, can you really G > > justify spending time/money learning/installing/fiddling with  it ?  > $ > The cost of prior version support?  8 about $300 to $400 per year ... very inexpensive ... and4 well worth the money instead of spending 5x the time on phase V ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:33:19 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)J Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1005031233200001@user-uinj56i.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <d7791aa1.0305100429.7c139309@posting.google.com>, ) bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:   5 >p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message % news:<D6FLjSctJlPC@elias.decus.ch>...  >> >  P >> > If 5 doesn't give you anything of value in your environment, can you reallyH >> > justify spending time/money learning/installing/fiddling with  it ? >>  % >> The cost of prior version support?  > 9 >about $300 to $400 per year ... very inexpensive ... and 5 >well worth the money instead of spending 5x the time  >on phase V ...   H Bob, you have mentioned personal phone calls with Rich Marcello.  So youJ must work at a BIG VMS customer.  That kind of customer pays big bucks forH high level support, and individual line items (like PVS for DECnet phaseF IV) are often bundled in with very low prices.  That doesn't mean that* ordinary customers can get the same price.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 03 10:38:46 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) * Subject: Re: Go to an AS/400 from VAX/VMS?) Message-ID: <JE3pj4pSp2eG@elias.decus.ch>   V In article <3EB953F8.638371CB@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > RC Bryan wrote: H >> If I were in your position, I would struggle to find any way to avoid? >> the AS400.  You can get a nice Alpha on EBAY that would be a H >> substantial step up from your 3100 for under $1000 and get some up to >> date software from HPQ  > M > But if you APPLICATION vendor has abandonned VMS, not even a marvel machine % > will make that software run on VMS.  > N > The OS is neat, but for business, it does very little. It is the application > that drives the business.   H You have it in one JF. The business application is everything. Sometimes7 our bias towards VMS can get in the way of seeing that.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 09:35:07 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> * Subject: RE: Go to an AS/400 from VAX/VMS?T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4040ED037@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Thomas,   E As others have stated, the application typically drives the solution, @ but if you are not satisfied with the overall solution, the only" alternative is to consider others.  > It may not be applicable and is likely to late, but as a fyi -  5 http://www.mimer.com/news.asp?secId=3D176&itemId=3D81 A "Australian Auto Dealers Gear Up to Mimer SQL (November 12, 2002)   B International automotive IT software developer, Infomedia Ltd fromC Australia, is planning to utilise the Mimer SQL Engine in their new C version of a Dealer Management System (DMS) named AutoLedgers. This B innovative product will initially replace their existing reportingG sub-system called Info-Centre(TM). Further DBMS integration is planned. F AutoLedgers is Infomedia's successful automotive dealership management@ system used today at more than 200 Australian auto dealers sitesE supporting the range of vehicle manufacturers including Ford, Holden, H Toyota, Peugeot, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Subaru, Daewoo, Honda, Kia, Hyundai,< Jaguar, Audi, Nissan, Chrysler, Lexus, Mazda and Mitsubishi.  F .. Success in the automotive industry has given Infomedia a solid baseG market and reputation. Its corporate strategy is heavily biased towards H the utilization of advanced programming technology, product reliability,G performance accountability and customer service. The new version of the @ Alpha OpenVMS-based AutoLedgers will use Mimer SQL Engine as theG built-in database management system (DBMS) for reporting functions. The @ Mimer SQL Engine DBMS will be integrated with AutoLedgers on theH OpenVMS-platform, replacing a remote SQL Server database and server that! was used in the current version."    [see rest of url..]   
 Regards=20  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM    > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Thomas F. Howald [mailto:howag@bluewin.ch]=20  > Sent: May 7, 2003 3:12 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Go to an AS/400 from VAX/VMS? >=20 >=20 > Hi=20  >=20D > I know it's a bad idea but we have to change our business softwareI > (Automotive Dealer/Repairshop) to an AS/400 because the Car Importer=20 > > only supports this system. I will sure miss the verbose DCL.G > We now have a MicroVax 3100 server with VMS 4.7 that is 13 years old.  >=20 > Any hints and/or comments? >=20 > Thomas >=20 > --=20 @ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------B > T.F. Howald    |It's difficult to soar with eagles,|Ph:+41 32=20 > 686 61 86u2 > Otto Howald AG | when you work with turkeys.|=20 > http://www.garagehowald.ch$ > Engestrasse 13, 4500 Solothurn,=20  > Switzerland | howag@bluewin.ch >=20   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 01:32:30 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) E Subject: Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd 3 Message-ID: <DR3yWYQQz7Rn@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  _ In article <BrydnUrFieGFHSGjXTWcpg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:t > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:copN3QozU2Hn@eisner.encompasserve.org...b >  >  >> Yep, $ per metric.n > K > Well, if Itanic sales are restricted to those for whom cost is no object,PD > sales volumes will at best continue at their current glacial base. > J > And, of course, my comments also referred to a metric where Itanic faresM > even more poorly:  performance per Watt.  There's a good reason Google tookeD > one look at it and said "No, thanks", and it applies to many other$ > large-scale installations as well. >l  ; 	To Google it is important.  To others, compute/cubic meterh@ 	is important.  To many, how much firepower period is important,4 	hence IBM's Blue Gene/L and Blue Gene/P and others.    t2 >   That is all you will be talking about in a few
 >> months. > L > Now that your grandiose claims about Madison have been shown to be just soA > much hot air you seem to be reduced to selling futures again.  .  . 	I must admit, you are quite the pontificator!   > You'd betterJ > hope that your crystal ball is in far better shape this time than it has > been in the past.r >   7 	But up until yesterday Madison had the top unclusteredV> 	TPC-C configurations for 32 CPU servers and top non-clustered7 	result.  So when you prattle on about Itanic one wouldr= 	conjecture it is poor performing CPU and of course it isn't.i  7 	Additionally, HP has the highest 4-CPU result on tpmC:-  C http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=103042401i  " 	121000 tpmC.   At $4.97 per tpmC. 	n> 	So all you have left is "$ per metric" and of course cheering8 	on IBM and Opteron - never acknowledging your circle is 	getting tighter.   ; 	Oh... at $4.97 per tpmC for that 4 processor Madison, yours? 	"$ per metric" argument is looking a bit weak at that.  As you-8 	had mentioned earlier, perhaps the best metric to focus@ 	on is "performance per watt", I'm sure Madison won't be leading 	in that metric.  o 				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 03:24:00 -0400:* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>E Subject: Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Toddn2 Message-ID: <ovqcndxS1b2GNCGjXTWcog@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:DR3yWYQQz7Rn@eisner.encompasserve.org...h@ > In article <BrydnUrFieGFHSGjXTWcpg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >a< > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:copN3QozU2Hn@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > >o > >  > >> Yep, $ per metric.5 > >5E > > Well, if Itanic sales are restricted to those for whom cost is no. object,eF > > sales volumes will at best continue at their current glacial base. > >aL > > And, of course, my comments also referred to a metric where Itanic faresJ > > even more poorly:  performance per Watt.  There's a good reason Google tookF > > one look at it and said "No, thanks", and it applies to many other& > > large-scale installations as well. > >b > < > To Google it is important.  To others, compute/cubic meter > is important.   K Then they'll like POWER4+ better than Itanic:  two processors per chip (and-I half the power consumption per processor just as a bonus - not to mention I SMT next year).  Or blades with two or four Opterons each (using not muchpJ more space than a single Madison, because they don't need any glue betweenK them and because each of them generates much less than half as much heat asb* Madison while equaling it in performance).  2   To many, how much firepower period is important,5 > hence IBM's Blue Gene/L and Blue Gene/P and others.   H Oh, dear - that brings us back to SuperDome's poor scalability again.  IL suppose you could argue that SGI might do better, but the performance of SGIB platforms is hardly relevant to whether *cHumPaq* has a reasonableJ replacement for Alpha (just to remind you once again of the original topic% of the discussion you chose to join).    ...s  8 > But up until yesterday Madison had the top unclustered? > TPC-C configurations for 32 CPU servers and top non-clusteredt8 > result.  So when you prattle on about Itanic one would> > conjecture it is poor performing CPU and of course it isn't.  J Gee, Rob:  I've said ever since its benchmarks first appeared that Itanic2K had achieved respectable performance, so anyone conjecturing as you suggest-K would simply not have been paying attention (duh).  Itanic2's main problemsrG (as I've also said right along since that time) fall into the realms ofiL efficiency ('smoking brick of death' remains an appropriate characterizationJ of its power consumption, and its appetite for chip area mitigates againstJ doing other things on the chip that would help it move ahead of the pack),H improvement (Intel has clearly heaved a gigantic sigh of relief that theL current core works adequately and won't touch it until the EV8 team comes upF with a better one several years from now), software development effortE (requiring profile-directed optimization to a greater extent than itsaJ competition to achieve similar levels of performance), scalability (partlyJ coming back to the chip-area problem:  SGI is the only vendor who seems toJ have had any luck compensating for Itanic's lack of on-chip glue, and evenH they aren't close to EV7 - or POWER4/4+ - in some areas of scaling), andE sluggish execution of IA32 code (which, especially in the presence of,G Opteron, will hamper its ability to achieve a foothold in the lower-endeL server markets and thus appeal to companies who would like a standard serverK base from low-end to high-end) - unless I've forgotten a few more:  I don't  maintain a list.   >18 > Additionally, HP has the highest 4-CPU result on tpmC:  J Quite likely only because IBM doesn't bother submitting scores for systemsJ that small.  If their 32-processor system scaled perfectly linearly then aI 4-processor version would yield a score of over 85,000 tpmC, so take your D choice:  either close to linear scaling to large processor counts isL possible in this benchmark, which means that SuperDome's scalability is justK as lousy as a cursory glance makes it appear to be, or the new POWER4+s are = likely faster in a 4-processor configuration than Madison is.    >eE > http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=103042401d > # > 121000 tpmC.   At $4.97 per tpmC.l >o? > So all you have left is "$ per metric" and of course cheeringh9 > on IBM and Opteron - never acknowledging your circle ise > getting tighter. >a< > Oh... at $4.97 per tpmC for that 4 processor Madison, your8 > "$ per metric" argument is looking a bit weak at that.  L Not really, Rob:  if you're looking at small systems and are cost-conscious,: then the 4-processor Opteron at $2.76 per tpmC is for you.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 05:38:43 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)E Subject: Re: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill ToddT= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305100438.28b6053e@posting.google.com>s  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<ovqcndxS1b2GNCGjXTWcog@metrocast.net>... > > % > > 121000 tpmC.   At $4.97 per tpmC.t > >sA > > So all you have left is "$ per metric" and of course cheering(; > > on IBM and Opteron - never acknowledging your circle is  > > getting tighter. > >k> > > Oh... at $4.97 per tpmC for that 4 processor Madison, your: > > "$ per metric" argument is looking a bit weak at that. > N > Not really, Rob:  if you're looking at small systems and are cost-conscious,< > then the 4-processor Opteron at $2.76 per tpmC is for you. >  > - bill  : except oopsteron does/will not run OpenVMS ... add that in; to the equation (tco) and Itanium will blow oopsteron away!i   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 03 10:17:45 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)n3 Subject: Re: How to determine boot device from DCL? ) Message-ID: <Rbtg9+A4PFyl@elias.decus.ch>>  B In article <03050711214800@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:; > From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  > 8 >> You want the lexical F$GETENV.  IIRC, it came in 7.3. > # >    It's in V7.2, but (in V7.2-1):d > 1 > ALP $ write sys$output f$getenv( "bootdef_dev")c > SCSI 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 >  > Not exactly "dka0".b   Or even:  + $ write sys$output f$getenv( "bootdef_dev")o RAID 1 8 0 0 0 0 0  $ which presents itself to VMS as DRA0   > I >    Almost four years back, some fellow named Hoffman posted some C coder > to do this sort of thing.  >        -- n
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:47:24 -0500 (CDT)o From: sms@antinode.org3 Subject: Re: How to determine boot device from DCL? ) Message-ID: <03051011472490@antinode.org>a  ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)h X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENETh  D > In article <03050711214800@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes: > > 3 > > ALP $ write sys$output f$getenv( "bootdef_dev")  > > SCSI 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 > >  > > Not exactly "dka0".i > 
 > Or even: > - > $ write sys$output f$getenv( "bootdef_dev")  > RAID 1 8 0 0 0 0 0 > & > which presents itself to VMS as DRA0  ;    On my AlpSta 200 4/233 systems, f$getenv( "booted_dev"):    DKA0:    SCSI 0 6 0 0 0 0 0D DKA400:  SCSI 0 6 0 4 400 0 0  DKB500:  SCSI 0 12 0 5 500 0 0   Where:   >>>show device dka0.0.0.6.0 dka400.4.0.6.0 dkb500.5.0.12.0o [...]  pka0.7.0.6.0
 pkb0.7.0.12.0v  %    So, I'd guess it's something like:a   SCSI 0 12 0 5 500 0 0-      ?  | ? |   | ? ?-A         |   |   +------- Composite device number (100 * ID + LUN)           |   +----------- SCSI id$         +--------------- PCI slot id  H I suspect that one mystery value (the first one?) is the PCI bus number.G (I have only bus "00".)  Another should be the SCSI LUN,  (Mine are allc zero.)  F    For one stable system, where the PK (or whatever) adapter names areG known, and can be correlated with their bus slot (or whatever) numbers,eF the rest of the conversion is easy enough.  It's not obvious to me howC the required info can be gathered without resort to a console "show- device" report, however.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,orge    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547K   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 01:52:59 -0400r* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>< Subject: Re: HP's 'Adaptive Enterprise' advertising campaign) Message-ID: <3EBC93B6.4A69B8BB@istop.com>e   "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:oL > True, I thought it was a little short on specifics - I assumed that it wasN > geared to the audience (CIOs/CEOs), who are notoriously long on abstraction.  L A good high level presentation is one which can present the technical meritsN of a solution with concrete examples and in a way that makes the non IT peopleN understand and see the benefits. And you don't waste CIO/CEO's time by filling% 2 hour presentation with no content. n  D It doesn't take 2 hours to tell a CEO that his company should have aE philosophy of architecting solutions that make changes fast and easy.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 14:51:03 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>2< Subject: Re: HP's 'Adaptive Enterprise' advertising campaignI Message-ID: <rl8va.134680$w7k.24661@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>s  A "Bradford J. Hamilton" <brad@.gateway.2wire.net> wrote in message.7 news:OuZua.78899$pa5.65768@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...m4 > In article <3EBC5155.AA9DE88D@istop.com>, JF Mezei# <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:e > <snip>E > >Frankly, I don't understand why a company such as HP would have tom	 make suchhA > >abstract presentations. Perhaps because if they went ahead ando
 explained howeA > >they "virtualised" their machines, people would just go to the  local computerD > >show and buy a $50 switch instead of paying HP $25,000 to be told to buy aF > >switch so they don't have to rewire their data centre when they add a new application. > B > To be fair, I believe that such a "walk-through" was supposed to
 take placeE > after the presentation - Carly mentioned a couple of times that the > > presentation was a "kickoff" for a day's worth of "breakout" sessions.  I+ > wasn't there, of course, so I don't know.   D > What are the chances that someone  who was "there" could elaborate in this forum?  C Absolutely zero. Anyone who participates in this forum is *exactly* < the antithesis of anyone carly would want to meet or be seen0 associating with - real VMS customers and users.  D That studio webcast was for the Gartner's of the world and the trade press.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 10 May 03 10:22:18 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comnP Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly, Message-ID: <b9iqni$iks$11@bob.news.rcn.net>  0 In article <qh1xz7k6j3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,7    Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> wrote: ; >hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) writes:sJ >> In article <b9di09$h57$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:2 >> >In article <b9b79f$1clq$2@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>,@ >> >   hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >> mH >> >>>>Close.  They actually dried out: with no water in the canals, theC >> >>>>gondolas left them stranded.  Unlike the other planet, which L >> >>>>successfully relocated its citizens to an italian city, they had the  ill ' >> >>>>fortune to choose Atlantis . . .x >> e0 >> >>>But how do you explain the Mars candy bar? >>  
 >> >>Mummies.v >>  ; >> >Now all we have to do is knot this thread together withcB >> >the thread up above (aliens airing spam) and there might even & >> >be pretty good scifi story here.   >>  K >> If you can make candy bars from mummies, making spam should be trivial .  >e >SE >Professor:  Now if you don't mind, I'm rather busy.  I seem to have   mislaid I >            my alien mummy.  This sarcophagus should contain the remains J >            of Emperor Nimballa who rulled Zooban V over 29 million years >            ago.n >i/ >Fry:        Hey Professor, mmmmm, great jerky!i > H >Professor:  My god, this is an outrage!  I was going to eat that mummy. >l >[...later in episode] >MK >Professor:  This is for you, Fry.  [hands him a sarcophagus].  Zevulon thev( >            Great, he's Teriyaki style. >hI >-- Futurama episode 1ACV03, "I, Roommate", first aired in US on 4/4/1999 ; >   (or, if you prefer European date notation, on 4/4/1999)l  9 One mystery solved.  Now I've an idea what "Futurama" is.4  E I love newsgroups.  All I have to do is think a question and sombody,i, somewhere answers it without a peep from me.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:12:21 +0100o" From: "Rolona" <nospam@nospam.com> Subject: Large Vax required 8 Message-ID: <o76va.30$44.0@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>  4 Looking for a large VAX system to buy. UK or nearby.5 Reply to (remove spaces) jo hn.ox ley@joh noxl ey.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 16:12:59 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>Y Subject: Re: Not fixed yet but still trying: Problems changing from serial port to DecSerM, Message-ID: <9d1j9b.3h3.ln@news.hus-soft.de>  
 Roscoe wrote:  > C > I'm actually using a test application that just displays the textaF > characters that are supposed to be received from the VT340 - not theD > entire real application.  So, control characters and such aren't aF > factor.  The test app also also displays the IO status and number ofH > charaters returned from the SYS$QIOW.  The IO status is 1.  The number" > of characters is of course zero.  F This could be caused by a timeout of zero. Does your test program work+ with a real terminal device (TTAn:, TXAn:)?i  ? > My "cooperate" statement just meant that my test program (the-E > SYS$QIOW) doesn't appear to be working properly because it looks asmA > though I'm not receiving any data.  However, maybe it's still ae > terminal setup problem.   ( Or a terminal server port setup problem.  + > I'll take a look at the terminal settingsn( > that you included and give that a try.  	 Good luckb   Albrecht   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 16:09:23 +0200@, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Memory/Performance Question, Message-ID: <g61j9b.sg3.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Rick Dyson wrote:  > O >         What kind of value would be of concern then?  Lower not utilizing the.N > RAM or higher?  Would that mean I am using more RAM before going to the disk > with paging and swapping?   D Right. That's what the page and swap files are used for. Extend yourH physical memory, but since physical memory is much faster, they are used+ only if there isn't enough physical memory.s  O >         You can problably tell I am not very good with these finer details ofs; > how VMS works. :)  I want to get an understanding though.n  H I'm not a tuning expert, but here is a short advice: look at the workingE set parameters and page faults of your processes. If the working setsrF are too small, the system starts paging, even if there is free memory.G That's what I meant with "you'd waste resources". If there is no paging*G and swapping (because your memory is big enough), then there is nothingh to tune.   > > [Details snipped]  > > H > > Are there any real problems (except 80% memory usage)? Is the system" > > slow, or are there any errors? > N > Our application vendor feels we should not be above 70% before they crank upN > the new application changes they have (Cerner and it's HNAC PathNet/PharmNet
 > products). v  G 70% of 256 MB is different from 70% of 4 GB ;-). Did they also think of D the absolute amount of memory they need? Is your server running onlyG this one application, or are there other applications consuming memory?   D > I don't know of any reported problems, yet.  But their new changesM > are supposed to a be significant system resource load increase and I am notsO > the strongest in this area of performance tuning yet!  I am trying to collectbM > some independent advice and info to help my crash course of the performanceaO > manuals with seem to be more typically concerned with paging/swapping issues..  F As stated above, paging/swapping begins when there isn't enough memoryF to hold everything in physical memory. Another point would be, if yourA balance set slots aren't enough to hold all (active) processes in,3 memory. Then you would see processes "swapped out".-  R >         I too think that I am not seeing much hard page fault rates, but I don't* > have a feel for what is acceptable, yet.  E That depends on your application(s). Do they do much I/O, or are theyc number crunchers?<  E There is an "expert" sitting around and waiting to help you tune yourWH system - it's called autogen. Save feedback info, and give autogen a try$ without modifying system parameters:   $ set def sys$system: $ @sys$update:autogen help	! look at the possible "phases"  D If your system is up for a long time with your typical load, you mayC begin with the SAVPARAMS phase to save feedback info, otherwise youhE should already have some actual feedback info (see AGEN$FEEDBACK.DAT)t and start with GETDATA:a  < $ @sys$update:autogen {savparams|getdata} testfiles feedback  E Then look at the output and read AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT. See what changesbG autogen suggests: are there parameters to raise, or would parameters beo4 lowered? So you can get an idea, what could be done.  E Ask your application vendor, which parameters should be adjusted, andvH modify MODPARAMS.DAT accordingly (you can add MIN_* and ADD_* values forG lots of system parameters). Then do another autogen test, starting withr5 GETDATA (because you saved the feedback info before).a  F But you will have to do autogen with new feedback info _after_ the new* software is installed/running for a while.   Albrecht Schloer(   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:35:44 GMTp4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)Y Subject: OT - PVS (was Re: DECnet-Plus (DECnet PhaseV) (DECnet/OSI) migration necessary?)e. Message-ID: <Am6va.800327$F1.100652@sccrnsc04>  h In article <d7791aa1.0305100429.7c139309@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:[ >p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<D6FLjSctJlPC@elias.decus.ch>...t <snip>% >> The cost of prior version support?e >g9 >about $300 to $400 per year ... very inexpensive ... and 5 >well worth the money instead of spending 5x the timew >on phase V ...n  O Not what COMPAQ (at the time) quoted us for PVS - their figure was $11K/month.  ? Made it very easy to justify the migration to our customer.	:-)   A _________________________________________________________________R0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 16:23:49 GMTp/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> ( Subject: Re: Problem with VMSTAR archive( Message-ID: <3EBD27AD.2060904@uiowa.edu>   Bob Koehler wrote:w > In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854512@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:m >  >>[size on disk]' >>RLPVOL8.GLS;1       12200006/12200016  >>G >>Which suggests to me that at some point VMSTAR falls over during thiseG >>file copy. Could this be some limitation of files sizes? This file iso >>quite large I suppose. >  > G >    What's the record type?  I couldn't get VMSTAR to read an STM file = >    (or was it STMCR?) recently, had to convert it to STMLF.f  I I always was taught that TAR had a 2 GB limit, but it was supposed to be nI worked on to handle more.  I would put my money on the file being too bigi at 6 GB though.g  J VMSTAR does have problems with some RMS file types.  Another problem one IJ know about is FORTRAN carrige control files. (the default text type unless, use use CarriageControl="list" on the OPEN).   rick         -- sJ Richard L. Dyson                                      rick-dyson@uiowa.eduK   _   _  _____                      http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/rJ | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst   --   INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsJ | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems Dept. BT1000 GH   Office: 319/384-7016K   \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052                 FAX: 319/384-7020dE                  (Consulting to the Physics and Astronomy Department)    ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 03 10:23:00 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) & Subject: Re: PRODUCT behaviour warning) Message-ID: <Z1NqEo1$YddK@elias.decus.ch>e  V In article <3EB94F91.A2373F36@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Charlie Hammond wrote:G >>           Compaq recommends that, if you change a disk volume label,aG >>           you also dismount and remount the disk on all nodes in thea@ >>           cluster so that the names and locks are consistent. > @ > Has anyone told you that Compaq no longer exists ? :-) :-) :-)  0 Errrr. Charlie was quoting from HELP SET VOLUME.       --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 02:43:43 -0700) From: munroe@csworks.com (Richard Munroe)t$ Subject: Re: Spamfilter for OpenVMS?< Message-ID: <8d09fa7.0305100143.6e8ff5db@posting.google.com>  k gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) wrote in message news:<b9bmjp$p29$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>...n > Hello, > 1 > is there any spam filter running under OpenVMS?  > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann   : YAHmail (in the WASD distribution) has some spam filteringD capabilities in it.  Mark Daniel has been adding them, I don't thinkD they're ready for prime time yet, but he'd probably love having someF beta users/developers involved.  I've been lending a hand from time toE time (mostly with suggestions) and have been using the interface when3@ I'm on the road and can't/don't want to take the time to fire up$ Eudora on my laptop and its not bad.  B I'ld like to see something like the adaptive spam filters based onE bayesian prediction implemented that have been showing up for variousiE mail agents in the U*x world.  Subject/RegEx filtering doesn't cut itw& and requires WAY too much maintenance.   IMHO.o   Dick Munroe    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 18:12:49 +1000t1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>t Subject: Splitting cluster, Message-ID: <3EBCB481.1000708@tg.nsw.gov.au>  ? I'm afraid that I currently have no access to any fine manuals.,  F I have the remains of a heterogeneous cluster: one VAX (was four) and 
 one Alpha.  H In order to get them to boot separately and not as a cluster, do I only L need to change VAXCLUSTER to 0 in each of the MODPARAMS.DAT and run Autogen?  E Do I need to worry about other system parameters, e.g. quorum values?w   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************s  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedt> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.e  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid uA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the h= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with nC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesp> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:20:46 +0200t+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>l Subject: Re: Splitting cluster5 Message-ID: <b9ig9g$j4327$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>-  @ "Paddy O'Brien" <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> schreef in bericht& news:3EBCB481.1000708@tg.nsw.gov.au...A > I'm afraid that I currently have no access to any fine manuals.g >DG > I have the remains of a heterogeneous cluster: one VAX (was four) andu > one Alpha. > I > In order to get them to boot separately and not as a cluster, do I onlynE > need to change VAXCLUSTER to 0 in each of the MODPARAMS.DAT and run  Autogen? >iG > Do I need to worry about other system parameters, e.g. quorum values?  >o > Regards, Paddy > ? After you've set the following parameters in SYSGEN or SYSBOOT:r VAXCLUSTER=0 VOTES=0  DISK_QUORUM="" MSCP_LOAD=0e, then there's no way a cluster may be formed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 06:44:27 -0500r( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re: Splitting cluster1 Message-ID: <03051006442759@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>0  A > I'm afraid that I currently have no access to any fine manuals.1 >2G > I have the remains of a heterogeneous cluster: one VAX (was four) ande > one Alpha. >iI > In order to get them to boot separately and not as a cluster, do I onlycE > need to change VAXCLUSTER to 0 in each of the MODPARAMS.DAT and runv Autogen? > G > Do I need to worry about other system parameters, e.g. quorum values?  >h > Regards, Paddy  K Does this cluster have a shared CI?  If so, only one server will be able ton0 access the disk.  Otherwise you will trash them.       John Brandon VMS Systems Administratoro Dallas Semiconductor first.last@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 01:26:28 -0400c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>P Subject: Re: TPC-C was: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd) Message-ID: <3EBC8D81.2FEB878F@istop.com>e   Bob Ceculski wrote:c, > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9416 > 8 > and when power 5 comes out, it will get even worse ...3 > Intel better get the EV8-9 logic into Itanium ande > quick ...3  J Imagine, if even Bob Ceculski says that, it must mean that Power will be a formidable competitor.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 MAY 2003 03:12:21 GMT2 From: karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)7 Subject: Re: Using ALLOCLASS=1 and fiber channel disks?>4 Message-ID: <10MAY03.03122117@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>  D In a previous article, lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) wrote:   ->karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes in article <9MAY03.14434938@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> dated 9 MAY 2003 14:43:49 GMT:eK ->>Can you use a node allocation class of 1 (anywhere in the cluster) whilee> ->>using fiber channel disks which always appear as $1$DKAnnn? ->  N ->Duplicate host alloclasses are allowed, yes.  That was actually the originalM ->mechanism for SCSI clustering.  Your only potential problem would be if twoi0 ->different devices were assigned the same name. -> SE ->>I'm suspecting this is why I don't see any $1$DGAnnn devices after3I ->>presenting a virtual disk from an EVA to an ES40 at VMS 7.3-1 with twoaK ->>KGPSA-DA's (FCA2354) installed. I have another cluster node MSCP serving G ->>a shadow set with an allocation class of 1. I do see the FGA and FGBm ->>devices with their WWID's.e ->  F ->Unless the MSCP-serving node has $1$DGA devices, I don't see why the' ->alloclass would mask the EVA devices.t  D Thanks for the reply. I'd have thought so too but after removing theG node with alloclass=1 and rebooting the node with the KGPSA's I now seeeG my first $1$dga* device (I did previously try "mcr sysman io auto"). SoaF apparently you can't serve a DK device with allocation class of 1 to aE node with fiber channel adapter and expect to see $1$dga* disks. I'veeG not seen this documented anywhere. I guess this would go for allocationa, class 2 as well (fiber channel tape drives).  K ->Word of caution:  Changing alloclasses for an existing node is a lot moretK ->dangerous than adding a new node.  It's easy to crash your whole cluster.a  A Yep - been there. That's why I removed the node with alloclass=1.z   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 8 --                 karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------   Date: 10 MAY 2003 03:25:39 GMT2 From: karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)7 Subject: Re: Using ALLOCLASS=1 and fiber channel disks? 4 Message-ID: <10MAY03.03253981@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>  < In a previous article, Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> wrote:  K >All our HSJ's have alloclass set to 2.  All nodes of our cluster also have N >alloclass of 2.  We just added a DS10 to the cluster with alloclass of 10 andO >are considering changing the alloclass of four other nodes to different valuesrJ > 17, 18, 19, 20.  Why would it be easy to crash the nodes or cluster? ->   H Well probably not crash but you will hang on reboot after you change theH allocation class. I've experienced this recently. You'll want to plan onF a complete cluster shutdown.  If you try changing the allocation classG of a node, the existing nodes that have already seen the old allocationo/ class won't let in the node with the new value.4   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisona5 --              karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  r   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 03:20:34 -0700) From: munroe@csworks.com (Richard Munroe)  Subject: VMS::Librarianr< Message-ID: <8d09fa7.0305100220.11e6d1bb@posting.google.com>  D I've recently done a lot of work on VMS::Librarian, well I've prettyE much rewritten it from the ground up, and have made it, more or less,.: useful.  It's available for download.  The details are at:  2     http://www.csworks.com/download/librarian.html  D I'm trying to locate Brad Hughes to see if he's interested in taking8 the code over or passing the torch on this module to me.   Any problems, let me know.   Dick Munroe0  C p.s. On another subject entirely, I'm looking for work (contract or:@ permanent)  I do a lot more than hack Perl.  My resume and otherC information are available online at http://www.csworks.com/resume. dE Take a look and if you see a match, let me know and we'll see what we 
 can work out.    ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 03 11:42:23 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) @ Subject: Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?) Message-ID: <m1$m61PpHU1C@elias.decus.ch>   l In article <E9uua.528$Ct2.295@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: > ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagem) > news:87issmo6aa.fsf@prep.synonet.com...e> >> "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: >>H >> > Note that the DII/COE Kernel is subject to export restrictions, andB >> > is not generally available to everyone.  If you need specificG >> > details on the DII/COE Kernel, feel free to contact me, and I will ? >> > refer you to someone who can make an "official" statement.u >>F >> What is there about COE VMS that puts it under export control? Does) >> it include SEVMS stuff out of the box?r >> >  > There is no COE VMS. > N > There is a "DII/COE Kernel" - which is provided by the US government and theJ > rules for it's distribution are covered by their rules (of which I am noJ > expert).  We port that Kernel to OpenVMS, and it is that Kernel which is
 > controlled.  > C > The DII/COE Kernel is a set of applications, user interfaces, and L > programming API's for creating a "Common Operating Environment" - which inL > theory makes applications written for it portable, and the look & feel the > same across platforms. > J > The Kernel sits on top of a standard VMS release.  But changes that wereM > needed to support the Kernel were done in a seperate release stream for thehJ > first release to manage schedule and risk.  Those changes will be in the) > next general V7.3-* release of OpenVMS.a  H So... I was looking forward to the idea that we non US govt. folks would6 get to see the benefits of the work put into VMS here.  E Can you please tell us what advantages we, the normal users will see?'C Will porting Solaris applications to VMS be a whole lot easier, for- example?     > M > The packaging itself of the DII/COE Kernel consists of the base OS, Kernel,u > and required LPs.w >    -- a
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 09:30:54 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: What is the schedule for the DII COE certification?3 Message-ID: <+RGoEuB3mpNp@eisner.encompasserve.org>"  U In article <m1$m61PpHU1C@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:en > In article <E9uua.528$Ct2.295@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:  K >> The Kernel sits on top of a standard VMS release.  But changes that were N >> needed to support the Kernel were done in a seperate release stream for theK >> first release to manage schedule and risk.  Those changes will be in thec* >> next general V7.3-* release of OpenVMS. > J > So... I was looking forward to the idea that we non US govt. folks would8 > get to see the benefits of the work put into VMS here. > G > Can you please tell us what advantages we, the normal users will see?e  J For C programmers, there will be better compatibility with the environment7 on Unix operating systems, which is useful for porting.i  F For those using higher level languages like Ada, it should not matter.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2003 03:38:42 -0700) From: munroe@csworks.com (Richard Munroe)n  Subject: Re: Where is VMSBACKUP?< Message-ID: <8d09fa7.0305100238.75551e5b@posting.google.com>   Steve,  F There are any number of copies (there's a 4.2 version somewhere, but IF can't dig it up right this second) on the CDs formerly known as DECUS.  Hit:-        http://freeware.acornsw.com/  A and search for vmsbackup.  Paw around and download what you like.    Dick Munroe   z "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message news:<91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA685451F@tahiti.tinuk.com>...I > I've tried to get this from ftp.process.com but get the following error 
 > message; >  > 200 TYPE command okay. > 200 PORT command okay." > 550 %%RMS-E-FNF, file not found,@ > ANONYMOUS ROOT:[VMS-FREEWARE.FREE-VMS.TESTING]VMSBACKUP4-1.ZIP > J > So has it gone? I want to try this as an alternative to VMSTAR which, asE > discussed in another thread, doesn't appear to be able to cope with  > files larger than 4GB. > E > Unless someone has a 64-bit version of VMSTAR which [I think] BarrypJ > Treahy mentioned might solve the problem... Or how can I make VMSTAR use+ > 64-bit addressing [is that what I mean?]?i >  > Cheers >  > Steve Spires > Technical Consultant > Torex Health > [P](44)01295 274388  > [F](44)01295 275131n > www.torex.come   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 03 12:42:36 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)mE Subject: Re: [Fwd: OpenVMS Pearl - VAXscan is now available on Alpha] ) Message-ID: <VcefzmLTiwoD@elias.decus.ch>c  c In article <LxOizRq3YUM6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:tR > In article <3EBAA8DF.5040708@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:F >> Thanks for the news, Sue. That would have been useful to us... six ? >> months ago. Now we've re-written our old VAXscan routines...  > F > I did not see anything in there about VMS providing VAXSCAN debugger) > support on Alpha, like there is on VAX.    From:   > http://www.emulatorsinternational.com/datasheets/ALPHASCAN.pdf   VAX Scan Compatibility  C VAXscan/Alpha is designed to accept input files used with VAX Scan.-G While compatibility with VAX Scan input is a design goal, VAXscan/Alphar' functionality differs in certain areas:-  @ o - VAXscan/Alpha does not have a DECwindows compiler interface.  = o - The way of using OpenVMS system services and libraries intC     VAXscan/Alpha is different in the part where the OpenVMS systems7     interface is different for VAX and Alpha platforms.t  H o - Since there is no embedded support for VAXscan/Alpha language in the@     Alpha Symbolic Debugger (like in VAX Symbolic Debugger), theE     VAXscan/Alpha programs may be debugged only using its support forp     UNKNOWN language.   E o - The VAXscan/Alpha development environment differs in details fromRK     the VAX Scan environment, in which means that in case of migration fromeL     a VAX platform the current SCAN applications development processes might     require minor adjustments.   -- o
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.258 ************************