1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 15 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 268       Contents:P Re: "CIOs OpenVMS Handbook" was (Re: Another Book from Digital Press - Getting SP Re: "CIOs OpenVMS Handbook" was (Re: Another Book from Digital Press - Getting SG Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")  A bit of DEC history...  Re: Advanced Server management Re: Advanced Server management Re: Best practices for VMS Re: Best practices for VMS Re: Best practices for VMS; Re: BLASTed directory locks, timing windows & endless loops - Re: C++ V6.5 linker performance optimization? - Re: C++ V6.5 linker performance optimization? ' Re: creating licenses for my own demos? = Re: fetch_http problem - solved - where's the 'real' source ?  Firewall for VMS / TRU646 getting data off an OpenVMS Alpha to Microsoft Windows: Re: getting data off an OpenVMS Alpha to Microsoft Windows: Re: getting data off an OpenVMS Alpha to Microsoft Windows Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro  Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro # Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro # Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro # Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro # Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro , Re: howto get a parameter (p1) to an ftp job, Re: howto get a parameter (p1) to an ftp job, Re: howto get a parameter (p1) to an ftp job ICU on OpenVMS Re: INIT/SHADOW  Re: INIT/SHADOW  Re: INIT/SHADOW  Re: INIT/SHADOW  Re: INIT/SHADOW  Re: INIT/SHADOW  Re: INTEL Itanic ? Fast ?  Re: INTEL Itanic ? Fast ?  INTEL Itanic ? Fast ?  Re: Large Vax required Re: Large Vax required Re: Large Vax required Re: next VMS versions  Re: next VMS versions  Re: next VMS versions  Re: next VMS versions  Re: next VMS versions  RE: OpenVMS Pearl Wed May 142 OT Humour - was: Re: VMS Admins with too much time Re: Printing to PCL-Printer? Re: Printing to PCL-Printer? Re: Printing to PCL-Printer? Re: remote dir Re: remote dir
 remote dir Re: Spamfilter for OpenVMS?  Re: Spamfilter for VMS?  Re: Spamfilter for VMS?  Re: Spamfilter for VMS?  Re: Spamfilter for VMS?  Re: Spamfilter for VMS?  Re: Spamfilter for VMS?  Re: Spamfilter for VMS?  Re: Spamfilter for VMS? ) Re: Stopping a que other then a print que  Re: Structure Layout in C  SWING & remote nodes' TCPware NETCP.LOG file - can I move it? 8 unix sues linux ... you don't get something for nothing!< Re: unix sues linux ... you don't get something for nothing!< Re: unix sues linux ... you don't get something for nothing!! Re: VMS Admins with too much time   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:42:06 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: "CIOs OpenVMS Handbook" was (Re: Another Book from Digital Press - Getting S J Message-ID: <OhJwa.169668$w7k.165701@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message : news:20030514214932.96488.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com...3 > So we need an advertisment at Playboy Magazines !  > What do u think about ?  >     0 ...."The Naked Truth About Operating Systems" ad   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:21:29 GMT 3 From: "Vasu Kulkarni" <vasukulkarni@rediffmail.com> Y Subject: Re: "CIOs OpenVMS Handbook" was (Re: Another Book from Digital Press - Getting S 0 Message-ID: <dDLwa.865$vr2.564@news.cpqcorp.net>   > 2 > ...."The Naked Truth About Operating Systems" ad >  >    "Virgin OpenVMS"   Virgin becoz still secure.. ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:05:35 -0400 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com>P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")/ Message-ID: <vc7eomhjpfdm14@news.supernews.com>   H From what I have seen, Compaq should charge $250 for VMS Base/NAS  for a 12-15 Unit machine. L Not a Hobbyist license - never really saw the point in that - giving it away	 for free. J But if they restricted licenses to specific serial numnbered PWS or XP10007 DS10L etc, they would at least see some decent revenue.  And it would keep users on VMS   David T    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:33:19 GMT 0 From: HARANGOZO CSABA   <spameater@spam.invalid>  Subject: A bit of DEC history...4 Message-ID: <P1Kwa.32$1e.58921@nasal.pacific.net.au>  8 	For those who haven't read this Gordon Bell interview :  4 	http://americanhistory.si.edu/csr/comphist/bell.htm   						Cheers,   Csaba   J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:     Gummidge's Law : G   The amount of expertise varies in inverse proportion to the number of - 	statements understood by the general public.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:49:40 GMT % From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com> ' Subject: Re: Advanced Server management 0 Message-ID: <o9Lwa.863$oa2.495@news.cpqcorp.net>   Hi,  Which  version of AS ?  2 "Seghers Bruno" <tips@euronet.be> wrote in message. news:b9trvj$19sfl$1@sinclair.be.wanadoo.com... > Hi,  >  > I have a question :  > E > I install pathworks on a openVMS 7.2-2 system. When I try to change L > permissions (with a windows NT graphical tools) on a directory mapped to a3 > share I create, I receive the following message :  > K > "Object picker cannot open because it cannot determine whether nodexyz is  > joined to a domain"  > 2 > I don't find any info in Pathworks documentation > - > Does anybody has a idea what is my problem.  > J > My advanced server is configured as a member of the domain. Wins and DNS are 	 > enabled  >  > Thanks for your help >  > Seghers Bruno  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:21:53 +0200 ' From: "Seghers Bruno" <tips@euronet.be> ' Subject: Re: Advanced Server management 4 Message-ID: <ba0i6m$120nk$1@sinclair.be.wanadoo.com>   Hi,  I think it's 6.1   Bruno   0 "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com> wrote in message* news:o9Lwa.863$oa2.495@news.cpqcorp.net... > Hi,  > Which  version of AS ? > 4 > "Seghers Bruno" <tips@euronet.be> wrote in message0 > news:b9trvj$19sfl$1@sinclair.be.wanadoo.com... > > Hi,  > >  > > I have a question :  > > G > > I install pathworks on a openVMS 7.2-2 system. When I try to change L > > permissions (with a windows NT graphical tools) on a directory mapped to a 5 > > share I create, I receive the following message :  > > J > > "Object picker cannot open because it cannot determine whether nodexyz is > > joined to a domain"  > > 4 > > I don't find any info in Pathworks documentation > > / > > Does anybody has a idea what is my problem.  > > L > > My advanced server is configured as a member of the domain. Wins and DNS > are  > > enabled  > >  > > Thanks for your help > >  > > Seghers Bruno  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:33:16 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> # Subject: Re: Best practices for VMS ' Message-ID: <3EC2EE5C.B9F276CA@fsi.net>    John Brandon wrote:  > [snip]! > Does not DFU require a license?   E DFU (Disk/File Utility) is freeware from DEC / Q / HP. Find it on the  Freeware CD/site.   6 Are you perhaps thinking of DFO (Disk File Optimizer)?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:50:11 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)# Subject: Re: Best practices for VMS 1 Message-ID: <03051511501154@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    > John Brandon wrote: 
 > > [snip]# > > Does not DFU require a license?  > G > DFU (Disk/File Utility) is freeware from DEC / Q / HP. Find it on the  > Freeware CD/site.  > 8 > Are you perhaps thinking of DFO (Disk File Optimizer)?  8 Yep, was thinking DFO - I just thought DFU was a typo...       John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor first.last@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:57:42 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk># Subject: Re: Best practices for VMS 0 Message-ID: <3EC3C5DD.A726ED75@blueyonder.co.uk>   Alan Adams wrote:     > M > The other problem which this fixes is leaking disk quotas. Unless it's been H > fixed since 5.5, users' quotas get gradually out of step with reality. > Anaylze resets them. >    H so does $MCR diskquota rebuild. You may have other reasons for analyzing5 but rebuilding disk quotas should not be one of them.    regards  --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------    Date: 15 May 2003 02:10:17 -0700) From: jbrankin@ntlworld.com (Jim Brankin) D Subject: Re: BLASTed directory locks, timing windows & endless loops= Message-ID: <863f19d6.0305150110.60b48358@posting.google.com>   	 The Book   ========  C 'VMS File Systems Internals' by Kirby McCoy. It is out of print but F you might be able to pick up a used copy. It is  a bit out of date now! too so you cannot rely on it 100%    The Data Structure ==================  3 The LVB on the serialisation lock can be viewed as     Struct { long fc_hdrseq;                long fc_dataseq;               long unused1;                long unused2;             }   B The first long is incremented when the file header (or headers) isD changed. The second is only used with directories. It is incrementedA when the directory data is changed. The file system uses these to A maintain its caches. When it serialises on a file it looks at the A sequence counter and, if it has not changed since it last had the F serialisation lock, it knows it can use its header or directory cache.D If it has changed then another node has been working on the file and the cache has to be reloaded.    The New File System  ===================   7 This had been mentioned here a few times. For instance    I http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3e3ff9c2%241_2%40hpb10302.boi.hp.com   B The blurb on the planned new file systems book also hints at a new file system.   See    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1555582699/qid%3D1052988945/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-1890565-7847252#product-details  - I would be very suprised if it is Spiralog.        - Jim   C ===================================================================   "                        Jim Brankin/              Brankin at nildram dot co dot uk     (                Strictly personal opinion  C ===================================================================   l "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b9u32r$9v$1@hercules.btinternet.com>...	 > Hi Jim,  > 0 > This sounds exactly like what I'm looking for! > ? > But who's McCoy when he's at home and what's his book called?  > N > Is there a macro def file for the 16 bytes? Or can someone tell me the Value > Block format?  > 8 > (And for that matter, WHAT new file system? Spirolog?) >  > Cheers Richard Maher.  > G > PS. Might not be able to get back to you for a while but please reply " > anyway. (God bless Mark Warner!) > 6 > Jim Brankin <jbrankin@ntlworld.com> wrote in message9 > news:863f19d6.0305140014.43a4377d@posting.google.com... C > > Use the FC_DATASEQ field in the serialisation lock value block.  > > J > > This field is incremented every time the directory is changed.See page > > 324 of McCoy's book. > > & > > The logic would be something like: > > 
 > > start:/ > > Take the serialisation lock and get the LVB  > > If DATASEQ has changed > >   drop the lock  > >   do the $search > > else > >   wait for the blast > >   drop the lock  > >   loop back to the start	 > > endif  > >  > > H > > Of course this is using unpublished interfaces which could change atB > > any time. And will change if they ever get the new file system > > working. > > 	 > > - Jim    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:00:31 -0300 + From: Rodman S. Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com> 6 Subject: Re: C++ V6.5 linker performance optimization?8 Message-ID: <8hp5cvsnbj41nfi0jpk14iklrdssrvglgs@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 14 May 2003 06:20:34 GMT, Ryan Moore! <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org> wrote:   H >Interestingly, there was a patch released for 7.3-1 dealing with Linker
 >performance.  >  >VMS731_LINKER-V0100 >  >The readme says:  > . >PROBLEMS ADDRESSED IN VMS731_LINKER-V0100 KIT > A >     o This change increases the RMS I/O related parameters when D >       doing I/O to the image file and map.  This will result in an5 >       increase in performance and reduce link time.  > * >         Images Affected:[SYSEXE]LINK.EXE > I >Sounds like it would be perfect for you.  Don't know if they back-ported J >this kit to other versions.  It doesn't look like there's a 7.1-2 version( >of this patch on the public patch site.  C Alas, the major time is spent in [SYSEXE]CXX$LINK.EXE, which is not E updated by the linker patch.  This is based on SHO PROC/CONT watching  test example sequence.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:00:07 -0000 , From: seibel_r@rich.ociweb.com (Rich Seibel)6 Subject: Re: C++ V6.5 linker performance optimization?5 Message-ID: <slrnbc77b3.muq.seibel_r@rich.ociweb.com>   P On Tue, 13 May 2003 20:58:29 -0300, Rodman S. Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com> wrote: >  > E >We are currently using HP (Compaq) C++ V6.5-004, to compile and link ; >our C++ programs on a DS10/466 w/ 1.1Gby main mem, running ; >OpenVMS/Alpha V7.1-2 w/patches.  We are finding that these B >compile+link runs are taking from 10-30 minutes elapsed time in aC >batch queue to complete with 90-95% of the time being spent on the  >link phase. > G I have experienced similar performance.  I have a fairly large library  H and an even larger repository.  I found that the majority of the problemE was with the repo.  If I sucked the repo into the library then it cut  link times in half or better.   A >We are looking for ways to optimize the C++ linker to reduce the C >amount of time our compile and link sequences take.  We are fairly B >certain that the problem is with disk accesses and not CPU cyclesA >(from information gleaned from SHOW PROCESS/ACCOUNTING).  We are @ >upgrading our system soon to faster disks so we are looking forC >software solutions to help with the problem as opposed to hardware  >related solutions.  > B >Some of the things we have considered but have not tried yet are:* >- Installing our libraries to a ram disk.  G An interesting idea, may help some, but I doubt if it will help as much " as combining the library and repo.  D >- Dynamically linking libraries instead of statically linking them.  C Probably not an option.  I looked at this and found that the linker F requires a diffenent kind of symbol, called a universal symbol, that, G AFAICS requires it be specified directly to the linker, that is, unlike F local and global symbols, it cannot be read from the objs.  If someoneB knows how to specify such a symbol in the source, please speak up.  < >- Measure the performance difference between compressed and >uncompressed libraries. >   C This sounds promising, though again, if everything is combined into B a single library, I don't think it's as big a difference.  AnotherC thing to consider is how much space is available for file buffering < in the OS.  If that is not sufficient, then this helps more.  5 Good luck, and please keep us informed of what works.  Rich  @ >If anyone has experience with experimenting with these specific0 >options please let me know what you have found.A >I would also appreciate other suggestions for options that might  >decrease C++ link time. >  >  >Thanks in advance >  >Rod Regier  >Dymaxion Research >http://www.dymaxion.ca  >      --  D --------------------------------------------------------------------D Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 211D Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comD Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:39:25 GMT ( From: Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: creating licenses for my own demos?0 Message-ID: <hMMwa.871$3O2.490@news.cpqcorp.net>  G works for me.  I can login to DSPP and download the docs with Mozilla,   read them with XPDF.  F Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; OpenVMS AlphaServer_DS10_466_MHz; en-US; rv:1.3)  Gecko/20030313  # XPDF.EXE from the Freeware 5, cd 2.      VAXman- wrote:] > In article <fwwwa.826$H52.129@news.cpqcorp.net>, Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@hp.com> writes:  > I >>Please go to the DSPP portal, login and search for PAKGEN.  You should  F >>get a page with 2 documents.  The first one is a description of the I >>service and process for requesting a PAK with your custom TOKEN string.  >  > J > Do you think that your employer will ever make so that VMS users can do I > what you've described with the VMS browsers available to us (Netscape &  > Mozilla)?   NOT! >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM 
 >             7 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:48:52 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>F Subject: Re: fetch_http problem - solved - where's the 'real' source ?4 Message-ID: <b9vur6$n4p$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Chris Sharman wrote:I > My copies of fetch_http appear to incorrectly prefix the hostname with  : > "/" - this is apparently sufficient to upset the server  > ( > So I've a fixed version of fetch_http.K > The source I've fixed came from Lemke/Levitte, and contained a number of  A > trivial errors preventing compilation, which makes me slightly   > suspicious of it.  > - > Does anyone know of a 'definitive' source ? & > Would anyone like my modified copy ?  D My original .exe provides (& documents) a -y switch, which puts the D result into dcl symbol http_result - very useful for dcl procedures.  : None of the sources I can find on Google have this switch.  I Anyone have a source with the switch, or know where to find one, or know  > how we came by this .exe ? I'm pretty sure we didn't write it.  ' It's - Image Identification Information   )                  image name: "FETCH_HTTP" 2                  image file identification: "V1.0"4                  image file build identification: ""8                  link date/time: 24-OCT-1997 12:15:37.260                  linker identification: "A11-20"   Thanks,  Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 15 May 2003 01:51:04 -0700+ From: paul_hallam@hotmail.com (Paul Hallam) ! Subject: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 = Message-ID: <5ed44bd3.0305150051.6b0cadb1@posting.google.com>   D Does anyone know of any current supported firewall software for VMS.C I know there was a product a few years ago but I get the impression 4 that Compaq/HP aren't interested in resurrecting it.  - If you use the TRU64 version is it any good ?    Paul HAllam    ------------------------------    Date: 15 May 2003 07:55:48 -0700. From: zcsessions@visionair.com (Zack Sessions)? Subject: getting data off an OpenVMS Alpha to Microsoft Windows = Message-ID: <db13d9fb.0305150655.549545ca@posting.google.com>   D I work for a software house whose primary product line is a suite ofF applications that run on Windows NT to support the information storage: needs of public safety agencies such as Police and Sheriff> Departments, 911 Centers, Fire Departments and EMS. One of theF services we provide for our new customers is to transfer the data fromE their former computer systems to a historical database in order to do  lookups on their older data.  C We have an agency who has been using our software for about 5 years F now, but they never tried to send us their old data for mapping to ourF historical database. The system that was running on now is so old thatF there is no one who works there now who knows anything about it at theE system level. It is an Alpha workstation running OpenVMS V6.something = and a custom application package called COPS. It is no longer C connected to their network. No one there even remembered the SYSTEM 	 password!   D A couple of my co-workers spent the entire day yesterday onsite withD the idea of trying to transfer the files to a laptop running WindowsE NT through a serial connection. I have the most former VMS experiance B (6 years working for DEC in the early 80's and 13 years managing aD farm of VAXen at a major GE manufacturing site) of us and was on theD phone with the guys for most of the day. But since it has been aboutE five years since I really had anything to do with VMS it took us most B of the day just to get back into the backdoor and reset the SYSTEM	 password.   D We now plan to go back again and try to get the data. Since its beenB so long since I was "intimate" with VMS, I have forgotton a lot ofC stuff. The main things that would help me would be some pointers on A the best way to transfer this data (any new purchases of software A utilities for the Alpha would be out of the question, freeware is D another thing entirely!). I tried to access Hunter Goatley's websiteC looking for VMS freeware but the last reference to a link I saw was A several years ago and the link is now invalid. A link or links to ; where some VMS freeware is available would be very helpful.   E Thanks in advance for any help. Replies either here or in email would  be welcome.   
 Zack Sessions    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:15:57 GMT - From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1> C Subject: Re: getting data off an OpenVMS Alpha to Microsoft Windows 0 Message-ID: <NaOwa.879$kU2.130@news.cpqcorp.net>  ; "Zack Sessions" <zcsessions@visionair.com> wrote in message 7 news:db13d9fb.0305150655.549545ca@posting.google.com... F > I work for a software house whose primary product line is a suite ofH > applications that run on Windows NT to support the information storage< > needs of public safety agencies such as Police and Sheriff@ > Departments, 911 Centers, Fire Departments and EMS. One of theH > services we provide for our new customers is to transfer the data fromG > their former computer systems to a historical database in order to do  > lookups on their older data. > E > We have an agency who has been using our software for about 5 years H > now, but they never tried to send us their old data for mapping to ourH > historical database. The system that was running on now is so old thatH > there is no one who works there now who knows anything about it at theG > system level. It is an Alpha workstation running OpenVMS V6.something ? > and a custom application package called COPS. It is no longer E > connected to their network. No one there even remembered the SYSTEM  > password!  > F > A couple of my co-workers spent the entire day yesterday onsite withF > the idea of trying to transfer the files to a laptop running WindowsG > NT through a serial connection. I have the most former VMS experiance D > (6 years working for DEC in the early 80's and 13 years managing aF > farm of VAXen at a major GE manufacturing site) of us and was on theF > phone with the guys for most of the day. But since it has been aboutG > five years since I really had anything to do with VMS it took us most D > of the day just to get back into the backdoor and reset the SYSTEM > password.  > F > We now plan to go back again and try to get the data. Since its beenD > so long since I was "intimate" with VMS, I have forgotton a lot ofE > stuff. The main things that would help me would be some pointers on C > the best way to transfer this data (any new purchases of software C > utilities for the Alpha would be out of the question, freeware is F > another thing entirely!). I tried to access Hunter Goatley's websiteE > looking for VMS freeware but the last reference to a link I saw was C > several years ago and the link is now invalid. A link or links to = > where some VMS freeware is available would be very helpful.  > G > Thanks in advance for any help. Replies either here or in email would 
 > be welcome.  >  > Zack Sessions      Hello    the Vms doc is at  www.openvms.compaq.com/doc   Hunter Goatley website is at) http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html    regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:57:33 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>C Subject: Re: getting data off an OpenVMS Alpha to Microsoft Windows 4 Message-ID: <zIPwa.6990$945.20722@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   You can try: a) FTP (if TCPIP is available)4 b) DECnet if you can install it on your other system> c) COPY to a tape if you can read the tape on the other system9 d) Samba which is shareware or something (no need to pay)    and probably other things too    --   OpenVMS 7.2-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0    Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) 8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  H "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1> a crit dans le message de news:% NaOwa.879$kU2.130@news.cpqcorp.net...  > = > "Zack Sessions" <zcsessions@visionair.com> wrote in message 9 > news:db13d9fb.0305150655.549545ca@posting.google.com... H > > I work for a software house whose primary product line is a suite ofJ > > applications that run on Windows NT to support the information storage> > > needs of public safety agencies such as Police and SheriffB > > Departments, 911 Centers, Fire Departments and EMS. One of theJ > > services we provide for our new customers is to transfer the data fromI > > their former computer systems to a historical database in order to do   > > lookups on their older data. > > G > > We have an agency who has been using our software for about 5 years J > > now, but they never tried to send us their old data for mapping to ourJ > > historical database. The system that was running on now is so old thatJ > > there is no one who works there now who knows anything about it at theI > > system level. It is an Alpha workstation running OpenVMS V6.something A > > and a custom application package called COPS. It is no longer G > > connected to their network. No one there even remembered the SYSTEM 
 > > password!  > > H > > A couple of my co-workers spent the entire day yesterday onsite withH > > the idea of trying to transfer the files to a laptop running WindowsI > > NT through a serial connection. I have the most former VMS experiance F > > (6 years working for DEC in the early 80's and 13 years managing aH > > farm of VAXen at a major GE manufacturing site) of us and was on theH > > phone with the guys for most of the day. But since it has been aboutI > > five years since I really had anything to do with VMS it took us most F > > of the day just to get back into the backdoor and reset the SYSTEM
 > > password.  > > H > > We now plan to go back again and try to get the data. Since its beenF > > so long since I was "intimate" with VMS, I have forgotton a lot ofG > > stuff. The main things that would help me would be some pointers on E > > the best way to transfer this data (any new purchases of software E > > utilities for the Alpha would be out of the question, freeware is H > > another thing entirely!). I tried to access Hunter Goatley's websiteG > > looking for VMS freeware but the last reference to a link I saw was E > > several years ago and the link is now invalid. A link or links to ? > > where some VMS freeware is available would be very helpful.  > > I > > Thanks in advance for any help. Replies either here or in email would  > > be welcome.  > >  > > Zack Sessions  >  >  > Hello  >  > the Vms doc is at  > www.openvms.compaq.com/doc >  > Hunter Goatley website is at+ > http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html  > 	 > regards  >  > Grard >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:22:03 GMT & From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>( Subject: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro0 Message-ID: <CFN377565077604861@news.cup.hp.com>   Hello,  M what is the difference (if any) between standard OpenVMS install kit and the  9 Hobbyist kit? Are there some limitations in the products?    Thanks,    Jirka    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:46:01 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ( Subject: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro; Message-ID: <01KVX5X7TYYIAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > what is the difference (if any) between standard OpenVMS install kit and@ > the Hobbyist kit? Are there some limitations in the products?   C The "standard distro" is a dozen CDs or so.  This includes all the  H layered products, documentation, foreign-language versions of DECwindowsG etc.  The hobbyist kit is a selection of these products.  There are no   limitations in the products.  E I have never had a hobbyist kit; I've always been lucky enough to be  H able to borrow a "standard distro" and install the stuff I need.  (This < is perfectly legal under the terms of the hobbyist license.)  G It's probably not THAT expensive to buy the media from HP.  (I did buy  H an operating-system CD; it's nice to have my own bootable CD.)  I don't D know if one can buy an arbitrary selection of CDs from the standard H distro.  (Make sure you don't SUBSCRIBE to the standard distro---unless H that's what you want to do---which means you would get a new set of CDs  every few months or so.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:09:37 GMT & From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>, Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro0 Message-ID: <CFN377565407898032@news.cup.hp.com>  8 On Thu, 15 May 2003 12:46:01 +0100 (MET) Phillip Helbig + <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:   E > The "standard distro" is a dozen CDs or so.  This includes all the  J > layered products, documentation, foreign-language versions of DECwindowsI > etc.  The hobbyist kit is a selection of these products.  There are no   > limitations in the products.  J I know the standard CDs, but now I'm trying to get my hobbyist license to O legalize my private VAXes, that's why I'm asking about the content of hobbyist   kit.  G > I have never had a hobbyist kit; I've always been lucky enough to be  J > able to borrow a "standard distro" and install the stuff I need.  (This > > is perfectly legal under the terms of the hobbyist license.)  O Yep, this is perfect. I don't have problems with access to any kind of OpenVMS  6 install CDs, so if this is OK with hobbyist license..    Thanks,    Jirka    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:27:34 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> , Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro; Message-ID: <01KVX7CXLJTSAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H > Yep, this is perfect. I don't have problems with access to any kind of@ > OpenVMS install CDs, so if this is OK with hobbyist license..   H No problem at all.  Note that there are three types of hobbyist license:: ALPHA, VAX and layered-products.  You need the VAX and theI layered-product license.  The serial number is the number on the back of  G your machine (you don't have to look at the CPU itself).  You need one  C VAX license for each VAX.  (IIRC you can have one layered-products  : license for all, perhaps even just one for VAX and ALPHA.)  F There IS a limitation in the licenses themselves: they expire after a - year.  So, renew in time (but not TOO early).   D I've heard that the hobbyist site had been having problems, but I'veG never had any problems with access, getting my licenses via email a few A seconds later.  Where I DID have problems was concerning my DECUS G number.  I've had 3 different ones since it changed when I was working  G outside Germany then changed again (to a third number) when I got back. B Apparently, the most recent number didn't make it to the hobbyist = database.  (Fortunately, they still had one of the old ones!)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:01:05 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton), Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro/ Message-ID: <5kLwa.889727$S_4.911348@rwcrnsc53>   w In article <01KVX5X7TYYIAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:  <snip>H >It's probably not THAT expensive to buy the media from HP.  (I did buy I >an operating-system CD; it's nice to have my own bootable CD.)  I don't r  L I looked into buying a "one-time" subscription to the Layered-Products CD's;L the price quote was above $1K USD at the time (three months ago).  Folks can2 decide for themselves if that is expensive or not.  C Hunting down the correct part number was an exercise in terror.	:-)e  E >know if one can buy an arbitrary selection of CDs from the standard VI >distro.  (Make sure you don't SUBSCRIBE to the standard distro---unless 6I >that's what you want to do---which means you would get a new set of CDs i >every few months or so.)n  A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:56:00 GMTa& From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>, Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro0 Message-ID: <CFN377565729939815@news.cup.hp.com>  8 On Thu, 15 May 2003 13:27:34 +0100 (MET) Phillip Helbig + <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:k  J > No problem at all.  Note that there are three types of hobbyist license:< > ALPHA, VAX and layered-products.  You need the VAX and theK > layered-product license.  The serial number is the number on the back of  I > your machine (you don't have to look at the CPU itself).  You need one EE > VAX license for each VAX.  (IIRC you can have one layered-products  < > license for all, perhaps even just one for VAX and ALPHA.) >    Fine. Thanks for the info.  F > I've heard that the hobbyist site had been having problems, but I'veI > never had any problems with access, getting my licenses via email a fewSC > seconds later.  Where I DID have problems was concerning my DECUSgI > number.  I've had 3 different ones since it changed when I was working dI > outside Germany then changed again (to a third number) when I got back. D > Apparently, the most recent number didn't make it to the hobbyist ? > database.  (Fortunately, they still had one of the old ones!)i  K Well, that's a different story. Ive tried to become a DECUS member several  I times. Since I'm from country where is no DECUS chapter, I applied for a iJ membership in France. No response. A few months later I tried again, some J emails were exchanged with no result. Now I've tried to apply in Germany, : DECUS chapter. So far I'm still waiting for some response.  K Could anybody tell me how to become a DECUS member in foreign chapter (I'm - from Czech rep.) ?   Thanks,h   Jirka    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:08:02 -0500s1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a5 Subject: Re: howto get a parameter (p1) to an ftp job7' Message-ID: <3EC2F682.77412D32@fsi.net>    Nic Clews wrote: >  > Trygve Aspenes wrote:e > >e	 > > Hellos > >0% > > I want to do something like this:o > > $! SendFileToHosta2 > > $ ftp machine /username="***" /password="****" > >    cd /some/dir  > >    put 'P1'T > >    quite > > $! > , > You've not identified your TCP/IP package. > A > Still, if using TCPIP services, it is $ FTP machine /user /pass@ > /INPUT=filename.extc > @ > Multinet is $ FTP machine /user /pass /TAKE_FILE =filename.ext > E > In each case, you'd create a filename.ext file, using DCL, with the. > commands and > filename in it. e.g. >  > $ open/write tmp send.ftp" > $ write tmp "cd /some/dir"0   $ write tmp "bin"		! or ASC[II] as appropriate > $ write tmp "put ",p1  > $ write tmp "quit"
 > $ close tmpa  F Be careful about assuming the default transfer method will be correct.$ Many folks have been burned by that.  E Then, this works for the VMS FTP clients in TCP/IP(UCX), Multinet andd% TCPware as well as MGFTP (I believe):2    $ DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SEND.FTP( $ FTP target/USER=username/PASS=password  B However, having recently learned a little something new about UN*XH security, I'd recommend using RCP where possible with the systems set upF so that passwords to do not need to appear in clear text in procedures or on the network.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/K   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 05:30:52 +0000r- From: Trygve Aspenes <talong@nospamonline.no>.5 Subject: Re: howto get a parameter (p1) to an ftp job . Message-ID: <3EC3260C.1010304@nospamonline.no>   Thanks folks    > I guess the copy/ftp will do for my purpuse. But I do see the ? dissadvantages sending the password in clear text over network.-   Trygve   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:05:41 +0100[( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: howto get a parameter (p1) to an ftp jobo) Message-ID: <3EC33C45.8FB2C826@127.0.0.1>u   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Nic Clews wrote: > >a > > Trygve Aspenes wrote:  > > >   = >   $ write tmp "bin"             ! or ASC[II] as appropriate  > > $ write tmp "put ",p12   > H > Be careful about assuming the default transfer method will be correct.& > Many folks have been burned by that.  A You're absolutely right. I was going off the original questioners D specification, I assume they know what they are doing, when they are: asking a question. A little presumptions of me perhaps :-)  B We didn't know the IP packages involved. VMS to VMS generally willH always switch to a binary mode I've noticed but it never harms the final transfer result.   G > Then, this works for the VMS FTP clients in TCP/IP(UCX), Multinet andi' > TCPware as well as MGFTP (I believe):  > " > $ DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SEND.FTP* > $ FTP target/USER=username/PASS=password > D > However, having recently learned a little something new about UN*XJ > security, I'd recommend using RCP where possible with the systems set upH > so that passwords to do not need to appear in clear text in procedures > or on the network.  H Um, even if you use DECnet copies, the actual network password "send" isH in plaintext :o) Network analysers are cheap and download sites aplenty.  D Proxies are another alternative, but some folks have strict rules onC proxies and privileged accounts, so in effect you're more likely to$E allow the password to privileged account to be seen. Unless of courseo7 you're not using the default methods of authentication.s   -- e? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot comp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:23:25 +0200 7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>w Subject: ICU on OpenVMSo/ Message-ID: <ba00s0$gu8$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>f   Hello,  I Does anybody know about ICU library port on OpenVMS? Does XERCES library   on VMS contains ICU?   Robert   ------------------------------    Date: 15 May 2003 00:19:52 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e Subject: Re: INIT/SHADOW3 Message-ID: <FdNwhwiaHsye@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  a In article <59aV8QiroOc1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:r    * 	Never mind.  You are on VAX/VMS.  Sheesh.   			Rob  y > In article <OF727CBB4C.1C630FB8-ON07256D26.0067BECC@rsc.raytheon.com>, "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> writes:H >> Gentlefolk: >> r. >> Here is more data on the following problem. >> DE >> 1. VERB reveals that /SHADOW isn't part of DCLTABLES definition ofp
 >> INITIALIZEo4 >> 2. If I add it in, INITIALIZE crashes with ACCVIOM >> 3. According to OVMS/VAX 7.3 New Features, this qualifier was added on thea >> 7.3 release.0J >> 4. HELP INITIALIZE /SHADOW exists and HELP INITIALIZE EXAMPLE shows and >> example.sB >> 5. I got my installation kit CD from the hobbyist site, not HP.6 >> 6. There are no patches for INITIALIZE or DCLTABLES >>   > 3 > 	This appears to be a fix for another problem butn > 	may also fix yours: > > > http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/822.htm >  > & >      ECO Kit Name:  VMS73_INIT-V0100 > > > 	After applying INIT I would dump DCLTABLES to see if /SHAD 6 > 	shows up in INIT.  (By the way, does it stick a new > 	DCLTABLES out there?) >  > 	ECOs for 7.3: > > > http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/a73.htm > 
 > 	Including:u > > > http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/787.htm > + >      ECO Kit Name:  VMS73_SHADOWING-V0200  > C > 	From your original, I see you had SHAD1 in place, but not SHAD2:e > 9 >> VAX/VMS 7.3 with level 1, SHAD01 and MOUN01 patches.  w > ; > 	Generally, I evaluate all ECOs and apply most of them ifo3 > 	the software *may* be used now or in the future.  > 6 > 	Finally, you probably should have applied this ECO: > > > http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/781.htm >  > ( >      ECO Kit Name:  VMS73_UPDATE-V0100 > ? > 	Which would have stuck MOUN1 and SHAD1 and other "mandatory"o< > 	fixes for 7.3 in place - but may not have fixed the /SHAD; > 	qualifier.  UPDATE is a pre-req for SHAD2 and INIT ECOs.= > 	 > 				Robl >    ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 03 13:15:18 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t Subject: Re: INIT/SHADOW) Message-ID: <F37yTPjZNTya@elias.decus.ch>c  q In article <LS+ai32+oQHB@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: X > In article <3EC297F2.2FAC13A4@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >> David D Miller wrote:= >>> 2. How did one create a shadow set prior to OVMS/VAX 7.3?T >> cM >> you init the 2 drives separately. then you use MOUNT, with the first drivesT >> specified used as a source and the subsequent ones as target of a copy operation. >>  Q >> My guess is that the INIT/SHADOW would skip the copy operation. Perhaps it was H >> implemented in Alpha but not in VAX (as are many things these days) ? > G >     Perhaps it's installed when a shadowing product is installed?  Orh5 >     only available if a shadowing PAK is installed?= >   F ? Surely shadowing has come with the base distribution for a long time now?  K I was tempted to think that it is available on Alpha, but not VAX. However, 
 the help for n  N V73_FEATURES System_Management_Features Volume_Shadowing_for_OpenVMS Subtopic?  : clearly indicates that minicopy is Alpha only, whereas the; Using_INITIALIZE_With_SHADOW_and_ERASE_Qualifiers does not.l   -- r
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:46:11 -0500=1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: INIT/SHADOW' Message-ID: <3EC2F163.3F7B744B@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > X > In article <3EC297F2.2FAC13A4@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > > David D Miller wrote:o> > >> 2. How did one create a shadow set prior to OVMS/VAX 7.3? > >nN > > you init the 2 drives separately. then you use MOUNT, with the first driveU > > specified used as a source and the subsequent ones as target of a copy operation.c > >fR > > My guess is that the INIT/SHADOW would skip the copy operation. Perhaps it wasI > > implemented in Alpha but not in VAX (as are many things these days) ?M > G >     Perhaps it's installed when a shadowing product is installed?  Or 5 >     only available if a shadowing PAK is installed?r  7 The VOLSHAD PAK is needed for DSDRIVER, not INITIALIZE.1   Prior to V7.3, you would:n   $ INIT $1$DUA4 DRIVE004h3 $ INIT $1$DUA14 DRIVE004	! ...or any label, really.o) $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA4/SHAD=$1$DUA4 DRIVE004vF $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA4/SHAD=$1$DUA14 DRIVE004 ! Adds DUA14 with a COPY op  G INIT/SHADOW is intended to eliminate the copy step on a new shadow-set.sH Both drives are INIT'd with the same information so they both match when MOUNTed like so:  4 $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA4/SHAD=($1$DUA4,$1$DUA14) DRIVE004  E Remember that the SCS node presenting the drives must have a non-zero G alloclass. I don't recall the exact reason why, but I seem to recall it F having something to do with a field somewhere not being long enough toH store the entire "nodename$ddcuuuu:" device name expression. Forcing the9 non-zero ALLOCLASS trims the maximum size of that down to. "$aaa$ddcuuuuu:"   -- : David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2003 23:06:38 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)i Subject: Re: INIT/SHADOW3 Message-ID: <odWLhQv$iUyG@eisner.encompasserve.org>O  [ In article <3EC2F163.3F7B744B@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e > Bob Koehler wrote: >>  Y >> In article <3EC297F2.2FAC13A4@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:c >> > David D Miller wrote:? >> >> 2. How did one create a shadow set prior to OVMS/VAX 7.3?  >> >O >> > you init the 2 drives separately. then you use MOUNT, with the first drive.V >> > specified used as a source and the subsequent ones as target of a copy operation. >> >S >> > My guess is that the INIT/SHADOW would skip the copy operation. Perhaps it wasnJ >> > implemented in Alpha but not in VAX (as are many things these days) ? >> -H >>     Perhaps it's installed when a shadowing product is installed?  Or6 >>     only available if a shadowing PAK is installed? > 9 > The VOLSHAD PAK is needed for DSDRIVER, not INITIALIZE.7 >  > Prior to V7.3, you would:  >  > $ INIT $1$DUA4 DRIVE00495 > $ INIT $1$DUA14 DRIVE004	! ...or any label, really. + > $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA4/SHAD=$1$DUA4 DRIVE004 H > $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA4/SHAD=$1$DUA14 DRIVE004 ! Adds DUA14 with a COPY op > F > INIT[/erase]/SHADOW is intended to eliminate the copy step on a new L > shadow-set. Both drives are INIT'd with the same information so they both  > match when MOUNTed like so:% >   " 	Additional reason for the /ERASE:  N http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/5423/5423pro_003.html#using_init_shad_h  J Compaq strongly recommends that you use the /ERASE qualifier. By using theN /ERASE qualifier, a subsequent merge operation will be substantially reduced.   > 	Might I suggest saying: "a subsequent merge operation MAY be B 	substantially reduced."   If the volume is 80, 90+% full, highly , 	unlikely to "substantially" reduce a merge.  ? 	And yes, many of us have very full volumes - tablespaces, DBs,n  	maxing them out - deliberately.   				Robr   ------------------------------    Date: 14 May 2003 23:38:16 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a Subject: Re: INIT/SHADOW3 Message-ID: <59aV8QiroOc1@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  w In article <OF727CBB4C.1C630FB8-ON07256D26.0067BECC@rsc.raytheon.com>, "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> writes: 
 > Gentlefolk:i > - > Here is more data on the following problem.. > D > 1. VERB reveals that /SHADOW isn't part of DCLTABLES definition of > INITIALIZE3 > 2. If I add it in, INITIALIZE crashes with ACCVIOeL > 3. According to OVMS/VAX 7.3 New Features, this qualifier was added on the > 7.3 release.I > 4. HELP INITIALIZE /SHADOW exists and HELP INITIALIZE EXAMPLE shows andm
 > example.A > 5. I got my installation kit CD from the hobbyist site, not HP. 5 > 6. There are no patches for INITIALIZE or DCLTABLESe >   1 	This appears to be a fix for another problem buts 	may also fix yours:  < http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/822.htm    $      ECO Kit Name:  VMS73_INIT-V0100  < 	After applying INIT I would dump DCLTABLES to see if /SHAD 4 	shows up in INIT.  (By the way, does it stick a new 	DCLTABLES out there?)   	ECOs for 7.3:  < http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/a73.htm   	Including:e  < http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/787.htm  )      ECO Kit Name:  VMS73_SHADOWING-V0200w  A 	From your original, I see you had SHAD1 in place, but not SHAD2:e  8 > VAX/VMS 7.3 with level 1, SHAD01 and MOUN01 patches.    9 	Generally, I evaluate all ECOs and apply most of them if-1 	the software *may* be used now or in the future.-  4 	Finally, you probably should have applied this ECO:  < http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/781.htm    &      ECO Kit Name:  VMS73_UPDATE-V0100  = 	Which would have stuck MOUN1 and SHAD1 and other "mandatory"m: 	fixes for 7.3 in place - but may not have fixed the /SHAD9 	qualifier.  UPDATE is a pre-req for SHAD2 and INIT ECOs.1   				Rob1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 06:49:50 -0700n. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: Re: INIT/SHADOWF Message-ID: <OF3B5DB25B.368AC046-ON07256D27.004B64F9@rsc.raytheon.com>   JF  K Sounds good.  But excuse me for being dense ... INIT them how?  I mean whatH+ command, please.  Something like this ... ?E      INIT DKA100: SPARE2  (    MOU  DSA10: /SHADOW=(DKA100:)  SHASET  #    MOU DSA10: <don't know the rest>a      etc.c  G I already set the SYSGEN parameter, SHADOW_<mumble>=2, and licensed it.h  K It seems to me I was looking at the VMS release notes for 7.3.  I'd have tod double check that.   dave.    JF Mezzei wrote ...i   David D Miller wrote: ; > 2. How did one create a shadow set prior to OVMS/VAX 7.3?l  J you init the 2 drives separately. then you use MOUNT, with the first driveF specified used as a source and the subsequent ones as target of a copy
 operation.  J My guess is that the INIT/SHADOW would skip the copy operation. Perhaps it was E implemented in Alpha but not in VAX (as are many things these days) ?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 04:25:58 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: INTEL Itanic ? Fast ?2 Message-ID: <1h2cnanLyYW_0l6jXTWcog@metrocast.net>  C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messagef- news:jHHwa.12719$_b1.159957@news.chello.at...n0 > Have you perhaps seen the (german) newsticker: >u2 > http://heise.de/newsticker/data/as-25.02.03-000/ >hA > From the URL it seems that it is already some weeks/months old.n >a= > It states that I64-2 is way beyond Alpha in SAP benchmarks.k  I Er, it states that Itanic2 is way *behind* (i.e., much slower than) Alphav" (and POWER4) in the SAP benchmark.  @ > So, count one more who thinks, the Itanic is not an Itanium... >,I > I'm still in doubt, whether I should believe that Itanic will die (as IpH > thought the last years) or I should hope that it will survive (becauseI > I think/fear, if Itanic really dies, VMS most likely will die with it).   J That is kind of a problem:  the world as a whole would be better off if it died, but VMS might not be.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 05:20:30 -0400a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: INTEL Itanic ? Fast ?) Message-ID: <3EC35B9E.F3D0B307@istop.com>6   Bill Todd wrote: > L > That is kind of a problem:  the world as a whole would be better off if it > died, but VMS might not be.4  L VMS could fall back to Alpha and alpha could start with just process shrinks8 and speed bumps while the engineers ready a new version.  O And HP could then port to HP-UX to alpha, and restart the tandem port to alpha.M   Sorry, I might be dreaming :-)  M If IA64 is killed, it basically means that HP will put all its eggs in the 64rE bit 8086 since killing IA64 implicitely means that Intel has a highlyl/ succesful 64 bit 8086 competing against Hammer.5   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:52:47 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: INTEL Itanic ? Fast ?3 Message-ID: <jHHwa.12719$_b1.159957@news.chello.at>r  . Have you perhaps seen the (german) newsticker:  0 http://heise.de/newsticker/data/as-25.02.03-000/  ? From the URL it seems that it is already some weeks/months old.a  ; It states that I64-2 is way beyond Alpha in SAP benchmarks.s> So, count one more who thinks, the Itanic is not an Itanium...  G I'm still in doubt, whether I should believe that Itanic will die (as I F thought the last years) or I should hope that it will survive (becauseG I think/fear, if Itanic really dies, VMS most likely will die with it).e   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERo% Network and OpenVMS system specialistT E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 03 11:44:34 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)a Subject: Re: Large Vax requiredo) Message-ID: <BvFwUSX0TXQd@elias.decus.ch>e  q In article <ec$Ow8pYnPRA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:hY > In article <3ec14f35$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com> writes: ) >>>Looking for a large VAX system to buy.r >>  M >> Gee, the VAX 11-782 was about as large as they came, or at least ours was.A >> Three cabs wide.u > F >    We had more than three extension cabs added on to our 11/780.  In' >    total they were about 20 ft. long.s >   ? A GS320 is quite an impressive size too, and that's without they accompanying disk farm.e   -- o
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:04:26 -0400a' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>i Subject: Re: Large Vax requiredo< Message-ID: <howard-E4E83C.08042415052003@enews.newsguy.com>  ) In article <BvFwUSX0TXQd@elias.decus.ch>,t+  p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:l  A > A GS320 is quite an impressive size too, and that's without thee > accompanying disk farm.    But it's not a VAX.y  = OTOH, compare and contrast a 4-processor 9000 with an 11-780.l   -- a4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:56:40 -0500l( From: Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com> Subject: Re: Large Vax requiredo. Message-ID: <vc774u90bij88@corp.supernews.com>  + On 5/15/2003 7:04 AM, Howard S Shubs wrote:3+ > In article <BvFwUSX0TXQd@elias.decus.ch>,t- >  p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:  >  > A >>A GS320 is quite an impressive size too, and that's without the. >>accompanying disk farm.o >  >  > But it's not a VAX.w > ? > OTOH, compare and contrast a 4-processor 9000 with an 11-780.m >    How do they compare, BTW?s  I I've not seen an 11-780, but I've spent alot of time using a 9440, which sF had all the normal peripherals (several disk cabinets, 9-track, STAR, G even a optical disc jukebox) and at least 1 BI expansion cabinet.  The sF CPU and expansion cabinets were easily 20 feet and the peripheral and 2 controller cabinets were probably another 30 feet.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 May 2003 04:24:46 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) Subject: Re: next VMS versions= Message-ID: <7500353b.0305150324.417438de@posting.google.com>a  a brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote in message news:<03051409430716@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>... L > > Consider this: A trainer of a VMS course I went on suggested OpenVMS may4 > > become a layered product on HP-UX. Any thoughts? > Q > Why would anyone do this?  I believe you would have to create a translator akinrL > to the current Itanium port and end up with the same results as FX!32 (?). > N > But then I said that about why would digital sell off its software, network, > Alpha, ... oh bother...  >  >  > John Brandon > VMS Systems Administratori > Dallas Semiconductor > first.last@dalsemi.com > 972.371.4172 wkC   Well,   E I'd say to be precise its a matter of what people envision as VMS. Asr, an Operating System or as a set of services.  A One view to services is FX!32 Emulation where the emulation is onsB binary instruction level and often-used code is compiled to nativeC code on the fly. The code needs no compilation, but on the downsidesC because everything is emulated so this will be very slow emulator. i2 FX!32 runs each application in separate emulation.  F And yet another is Charon-VAX that emulates only hardware but runs theC whole operating system in emulation. Therefore all processes withinnC emulated hardware are contained in single process. The emulation isoB slow, but so were VAXes so with modern hardware the performance is adequate to them.l  C The limitation of the approaches above is that the people that madenE these did not 'own' VMS. If HP would like to 'minimize' VMS, it couldr@ port VMS API to HP-UX, e.g. provide a set of libraries for everyB compiler they use now for mapping the calls from VMS calls to UnixE calls because in most cases people care only about their applications 0 being supported, not of their operating systems.  @ Doing this on Alpha or Vax would make no sense at all, but sinceE OpenVMS is soon on same hw platform as HP-UX (or Linux), this becomeshE viable plan. Farfetched ? Do you know how the last MPE/iX worked ? ItcC became an emulation capable of running MPE programs on top of HP-UXwE and in the end there was very little of MPE left. What would prohibit:C HP of reusing this good and working strategy ? (No, I dont work fory4 HP, I just hobby operating systems architectures :).  D Naturally this could have interesting effects to performance becauseD mapping of API's is seldom 1:1. Otoh, if the performance of platformD running the emulation is good enough like in the case of Charon-Vax,+ then only very few might care about that...y   Mist   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:52:16 +0100 (MET)19 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c Subject: Re: next VMS versions; Message-ID: <01KVX64ANE1SAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>1  ' > >I went from V6.2 to V7.3-1 directly.m > D > What you "can" do and what is "supported" may be different things. > 1 > The "supported" upgrade paths have been tested.t > E > Unsupported upgrade paths often work -- or at least appear to work.eK > They may also have subtle problems that will not be apparent immediately.t > H > For a production system, or any system that you care about long-term, F > use of supported upgrade paths is generally well worth any time that+ > might be saved using an unsupported path.   D My original question was phrased in the context "should I move from H 7.2-1 to 7.3-1 and then soon after to 7.3-2 (since I definitely want to D do that as soon as possible) or should I go to 7.3-1 first (which I B would do if 7.2-1 to 7.3-2 directly is not supported.)  A similar , question applies to TCPIP 5.0A, 5.3 and 5.4.  D Yes, this information will be in the 7.3-2 (or 5.4) release notes.  G However, these are available only when 7.3-2 comes out.  So what I was kE looking for is some inofficial indication from Those Who Should Know  G whether going from 7.2-1 to 7.3-2 (and from 5.0A to 5.4) directly will hG be supported.  If I have to go through 7.3-1 anyway, then I'll upgrade TE soon.  If I don't, I'll wait until 7.3-2 comes out since this is one  ) upgrade I want to do as soon as possible.s  E While I'm at it, what are plans for releases of new compiler versionsiB (major or minor, anything which is not available as a downloadable; patch), particularly Fortran and C?  What about DECwindows?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:20:38 GMTb3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)o Subject: Re: next VMS versions0 Message-ID: <WmNwa.873$6Q2.696@news.cpqcorp.net>  < In article <01KVX64ANE1SAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, ; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:l   [>somebody wrote:]( >> >I went from V6.2 to V7.3-1 directly. >> eE >> What you "can" do and what is "supported" may be different things.h >> s2 >> The "supported" upgrade paths have been tested. ..E >My original question was phrased in the context "should I move from tI >7.2-1 to 7.3-1 and then soon after to 7.3-2 (since I definitely want to iE >do that as soon as possible) or should I go to 7.3-1 first (which I lC >would do if 7.2-1 to 7.3-2 directly is not supported.)  A similar p- >question applies to TCPIP 5.0A, 5.3 and 5.4.e ..  K My reply was not intended to address your original question, but to caution , about the use of unsuppported upgrade paths.  M I unofficially anticipate that a direct upgrade of OpenVMS V7.2-1 to V7.3-2,  L and of TCPIP V5.0A or V5.3 to V5.4 will be supported.  I remind you to read F the documentation that will come with the OpenVMS kit to confirm this.  L Depending on how much effort it is for you to upgrade, I sugest you considerE moving to OpenVMS V7.3-1 now, and then to V7.3-2 when it is avaiable.l   -- dJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:52:10 +0100 (MET)@9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>f Subject: Re: next VMS versions; Message-ID: <01KVXEMWDK7QAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  E > My reply was not intended to address your original question, but ton7 > caution about the use of unsuppported upgrade paths. n  4 Right; sorry if I unintentionally implied otherwise.  F > I unofficially anticipate that a direct upgrade of OpenVMS V7.2-1 toA > V7.3-2, and of TCPIP V5.0A or V5.3 to V5.4 will be supported.  n   OK.   H > I remind you to read the documentation that will come with the OpenVMS > kit to confirm this. d   Right, of course.o  C Depending on how much effort it is for you to upgrade, I sugest yourD consider moving to OpenVMS V7.3-1 now, and then to V7.3-2 when it is
 avaiable.   B The actual VMS upgrade is not the problem.  However, I like to do F everything at once, i.e. OS and layered products, borrowing the CDs I H need for a weekend or whatever.  The compiler upgrades etc are also not E very time-consuming.  What takes time is seeing what has changed and -H deciding what to upgrade.  Thus, I'd like to avoid doing an upgrade now " and another in just 3 or 4 months.  G I suppose that with layered products like compilers there is less of anTG issue of supported paths, i.e. I could make a bigger jump there.  Does tG this sound logical?  Thus, I might upgrade JUST THE OS (and other stuff D which is on the OS CD, and TCPIP even if it is on a different CD) toF 7.3-1 now and then when the CD distribution including 7.3-2 comes out,8 upgrade to 7.3-2 then AND upgrade all layered products.   < Of course, unless the release notes for 7.3-2 are available D significantly before 7.3-2 itself is, I have the choice of going to @ 7.3-1 soon or waiting until 7.3-2 arrives: I would rather do an D unnecessary upgrade and move to 7.3-1 earlier than wait until 7.3-2 > comes out to decide whether I have to go through 7.3-1 or not.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:17:55 GMTp3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)  Subject: Re: next VMS versions0 Message-ID: <DcOwa.880$BQ2.357@news.cpqcorp.net>  < In article <01KVXEMWDK7QAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, ; Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:d  0 >The actual VMS upgrade is not the problem.  ...F >                 ...  What takes time is seeing what has changed and  >deciding what to upgrade.  ...t   Yep, that is reality.i  = >Of course, unless the release notes for 7.3-2 are available  & >significantly before 7.3-2 itself ...  A Not likely -- and if they are the "early verson" would be subjectV to change/correction.  Sorry.e   -- VJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 06:06:08 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>s% Subject: RE: OpenVMS Pearl Wed May 14wT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4040ED05F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   David,   Re: what is ETL ?   @ Extract Transform Load - typically used in data warehouses where massaging of data is required.  / Quick search on ETL and warehouse came up with:f6 http://www.evaltech.com/wpapers/dwandetlprocessing.htm   Regardsh  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      > -----Original Message-----; > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]=20r > Sent: May 14, 2003 10:10 PM9 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl Wed May 14t >=20 >=20 > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >=20, > > ETL project at large credit card company
 > > [snip] >=20 > Ok, I'll bite - what's "ETL"?o >=20 > --=20u > David J. Dachterat > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >=20* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/C >=20   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 03 13:03:46 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e; Subject: OT Humour - was: Re: VMS Admins with too much timea) Message-ID: <S50q8Z4lEubL@elias.decus.ch>c  V In article <3EC28A3B.4C710167@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:$ >> I found the following script on :0 >> "http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/d.html". > D > Good news. There are 3 examples of DCL and one of TPU. Pretty good( > representation of VMS  in this bunch ! > L > Was the fancy one with the FAO submitted by a VMS engineer by any chance ? > K > Interesting that beer is such a common constant for males in the western   > world.  F On the subject of a common constant for males, this one arrived in my  mail today:d  B DINNER MONEY                                                        ; A man was walking down the street when he was accosted by as@ particularly dirty and shabby-looking homeless man who asked him# for a couple of dollars for dinner.i  = The man took out his wallet, extracted two dollars and asked,t9 "If I give you this money, will you buy some beer with itm	 instead?"b  : "No, I stopped drinking years ago," the homeless man said.  ; "Will you use it to gamble instead of buying food?" the manc asked.  ? "No, I don't gamble," the homeless man said. "I need everythingr I can get just to stay alive."  @ "Will you spend the money on green fees at a golf course instead of food?" the man asked.  @ "Are you NUTS!" replied the homeless man. "I haven't played golf
 in 20 years!"d  = "Well," said the man, "I'm not going to give you two dollars.u@ Instead, I'm going to take you home for a terrific dinner cooked by my wife."  @ The homeless man was astounded, "Won't your wife be furious with: you for doing that? I know I'm dirty, and I probably smell pretty bad."  ? The man replied, "Hey, man, that's okay! I just want her to seel? what a man looks like who's given up beer, gambling, and golf!"v   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 2003 10:35:22 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)r% Subject: Re: Printing to PCL-Printer? 0 Message-ID: <b9vqha$cph$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  [ In article <3EC2F458.8B61EE4A@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:b >Christoph Gartmann wrote:	 >> [snip] L >> The network connection as such is not a problem. It is more a question of  >> generating PCL under OpenVMS. >0I >Sounds like the usual confusion between the Windows paradigm and the VMSh
 >paradigm. >mH >If you have program that generates PCL, text, PostScript, etc., with orI >without embedded escape sequences, the symbiont can be made to pass thataB >unmodified to the printer. The symbiont itself, however (with the= >exception of DCPS) does not "generate PCL" or anything else.   L I'm aware of this. My question was a more general one. I know now that I canJ print ASCII text. In addition I am able to insert PCL sequences to requestO special features via setup modules. So the only problem might be German UmlautsEI or other special characters that are part of the extended ASCII code that M OpenVMS uses. Is this code the same as with PCL? Or even worse, the technicals1 character set...  Any experiences from real life?m   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanne  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:58:48 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: Printing to PCL-Printer? ' Message-ID: <3EC2F458.8B61EE4A@fsi.net>p   Christoph Gartmann wrote:i > [snip]K > The network connection as such is not a problem. It is more a question of- > generating PCL under OpenVMS.   H Sounds like the usual confusion between the Windows paradigm and the VMS	 paradigm.o  G If you have program that generates PCL, text, PostScript, etc., with ornH without embedded escape sequences, the symbiont can be made to pass thatA unmodified to the printer. The symbiont itself, however (with thex< exception of DCPS) does not "generate PCL" or anything else.   --   David J. Dachtera: dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:54:25 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>% Subject: Re: Printing to PCL-Printer? , Message-ID: <9og0ab.hvu.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Christoph Gartmann wrote:c > N > I'm aware of this. My question was a more general one. I know now that I canL > print ASCII text. In addition I am able to insert PCL sequences to requestQ > special features via setup modules. So the only problem might be German UmlautseK > or other special characters that are part of the extended ASCII code thatwO > OpenVMS uses. Is this code the same as with PCL? Or even worse, the technicalo3 > character set...  Any experiences from real life?r   Yes, here they are:h  > The following setup modules are using the ECMA-94 Latin 1 (akaC ISO-8859-1) character set  "<ESC>(0N" switches PCL printers to this @ character set, which is _very_ similar to DEC MCS (multinational character set).y    
 DOKU.LJ3;7  oP <DCS><ESC>E<ESC>(0N<ESC>&l0O<ESC>&l26A<ESC>&l6D<ESC>(s3T<ESC>(s10H<ESC>&k11H<ST>  y DOKU12.LJ3;1  oO <DCS><ESC>E<ESC>(0N<ESC>&l0O<ESC>&l26A<ESC>&l6D<ESC>(s3T<ESC>(s12H<ESC>&k9H<ST>   wF The following setup modules are using the ISO-21 German character set @ "<ESC>(1G" switches PCL printers to this character set, which isD identical to German NRCS (national replacement character set), whichD replaces [\] and {|}~ with the german Umlauts ( and ) for use with 7-bit characters.     GERM10.LJ3;7  vP <DCS><ESC>E<ESC>(1G<ESC>&l0O<ESC>&l26A<ESC>&l6D<ESC>(s3T<ESC>(s10H<ESC>&k11H<ST>    GERM12.LJ3;9   O <DCS><ESC>E<ESC>(1G<ESC>&l0O<ESC>&l26A<ESC>&l6D<ESC>(s3T<ESC>(s12H<ESC>&k9H<ST>a  s GERM16.LJ3;6  -O <DCS><ESC>E<ESC>(1G<ESC>&l0O<ESC>&l26A<ESC>&l6D<ESC>(s3T<ESC>(s16H<ESC>&k7H<ST>t  a  G The remaining ESC sequences do additional setup - I can't tell exactly,-G which, but I wanted to leave them complete as "real life examples" :-).b  C I don't know of any existing mapping of the technical character set  and/or line drawing characters.-   Hth-   Albrecht Schloery   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:33:31 GMTc+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>@ Subject: Re: remote dir,2 Message-ID: <BAE8D729.86EC%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  C On 5/15/03 1:58 AM, in article b9vkst$ajep$1@as201.hinet.hr, "Igor"o <igor.fosic@os.hinet.hr> wrote:R  K > I have .com procedure where I want to display contents of my directory on" > other server in cluster.
 > If I use > $ dir server"username pass"::>N > then it's OK but I don't want to display my password in some procedure, so I
 > want to useo > $ dir server::*.*;*o" > and get content of my directory.$ > This DCL command gives me an error8 > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening XXXXXX::*.*;* as input > 1 > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failedI > > > -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node > . > I have read about proxies and made it in UAF4 > UAF add/proxy server::remoteuser localuser/defaultM > but it isn't work. Can someone help me with a few instructions how to solvee > this problem?sH > I am using OpenVMS 7.3 on localserver and OpenVMS 5.5 on remoteserver. >  > Thanks >  > 4 What error message are you getting with the proxies?; Have you enabled incommoding proxies on your remote server?n7 Have you enabled Outgoing Proxies on your local system?t  J Which node did you do the UAF proxy definition? It should have been on theG Remote server, and if your local server is called NODEA, and the remote.L server is NODEB and the user name you want to default on the server NODEB isK USERB, and you are doing th dir command from your local NODEA from username2: USERA, then the UAF command on the remote NODEB would be :  * UAF>ADD/PROXY  NODEA::USERA  USERB/DEFAULT  G If you want to go the other way then on your local NODEA you would haveu  * UAF>ADD/PROXY  NODEB::USERB  USERA/DEFAULT  2 Check these things out, and you should be working.   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:37:49 -0400W* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: remote dirs4 Message-ID: <iNMwa.6974$945.20705@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  K Possibly you did not use the correct name for the incoming node name in the  proxy definition) Do the following on the destination node:8& $ set aud/alarm/enable=logfail=network $ reply/enable  G Then issue your command on the source node, without the user/pwd in thec syntax.3E You will get an OPCOM message on the destination node, containing therK incoming node name or address. That's what you'll have to use in your proxyi definition.m  J Alternatively, use the command with username and password and look in thatK remote user's sys$login directory for a file called net$server.log. It also. will contain the node name.    HTHr   --   OpenVMS 7.2-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0    SyltremeI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)S8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  @ "Igor" <igor.fosic@os.hinet.hr> a crit dans le message de news: b9vkst$ajep$1@as201.hinet.hr...dK > I have .com procedure where I want to display contents of my directory onw > other server in cluster.
 > If I use  >  $ dir server"username pass"::L > then it's OK but I don't want to display my password in some procedure, so In
 > want to use  > $ dir server::*.*;*p" > and get content of my directory.$ > This DCL command gives me an error8 > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening XXXXXX::*.*;* as input >l1 > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failedA >Q> > -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node >-. > I have read about proxies and made it in UAF4 > UAF add/proxy server::remoteuser localuser/defaultG > but it isn't work. Can someone help me with a few instructions how to  solve  > this problem?aH > I am using OpenVMS 7.3 on localserver and OpenVMS 5.5 on remoteserver. >i > Thanks >i >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:58:54 +0200.% From: "Igor" <igor.fosic@os.hinet.hr>a Subject: remote dirM* Message-ID: <b9vkst$ajep$1@as201.hinet.hr>  I I have .com procedure where I want to display contents of my directory on  other server in cluster. If I use  $ dir server"username pass"::L then it's OK but I don't want to display my password in some procedure, so I want to use  $ dir server::*.*;*s  and get content of my directory." This DCL command gives me an error6 %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening XXXXXX::*.*;* as input  / -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failedo  < -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node  , I have read about proxies and made it in UAF2 UAF add/proxy server::remoteuser localuser/defaultK but it isn't work. Can someone help me with a few instructions how to solvet
 this problem?aF I am using OpenVMS 7.3 on localserver and OpenVMS 5.5 on remoteserver.   Thanks   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 03 09:46:44 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e$ Subject: Re: Spamfilter for OpenVMS?) Message-ID: <f2aGG0Son4bx@elias.decus.ch>d  d In article <b9t9oc$mn1un$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <cbTudTC$hDQs@eisner.encompasserve.org>,d2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:c >> In article <b9s3ua$mnekc$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:b7 >>> In article <84onaVJ$4mdi@eisner.encompasserve.org>,r4 >>> 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >>>>  M >>>> I feel the main difference is that for spam the bulk of the cost is paid_# >>>> by the victim, not the sender.j >>>> :L >>>> At least in the US, postal advertising rates mean it is paid for by theL >>>> sender.  They get a discount for presorting the mail, but that is fair. >>> K >>> They also get a cheaper rate which means first-class mail customers are " >>> paying to subsidize junk mail. >> c? >> You say cheaper rate, I say discount.  It is the same thing.wF >> You disagree with the Postal Service when they say it pays its way. > E > Two different things.  Everybody with large bundles gets a discountcF > for pre-sorted mail.  Junk mail, which gets handled like first-classC > does not pay the first-class rate.  And that is making the victimiF > subsidize the slime-ball.   And, as I said previously, you then haveB > to pay to dispose of all the crap you never even bother reading. >   E I can't comment on the relative costs, but when I was in the UK, junk?F mail was out of all proportion to real mail. Once after being away forB several weeks, I had to put my shoulder to my front door to get in
 the house.  C It then took at least half an hour to retrieve the valid stuff fromDF the dross (and there was important stuff in there), followed by a trip) to the waste paper dump. I was not happy.t   -- o
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:54:32 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>A  Subject: Re: Spamfilter for VMS?; Message-ID: <01KVX3W4JY5GAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l  . > the teergrube concept is a great one IMHO.    1 I've been thinking about it for a few days now.  E  ( Is there any argument against it at all?  E I think that an arbitrary email address which is publicly visible on r@ usenet or the web will get harvested within a couple of days of F appearing.  All we need is a few people to set up a teergrube, post a I few hundred email addresses which are in every respect legitimate except hE that they are intended only as spam traps, i.e. the corresponding MX  6 record points to the teergrube, and sit back and wait.  G What would be the optimum number of teergrubes and email addresses per @/ teergrube to stop all spam as soon as possible?B  H Note that the concept above does not require maintaining ANY list of IP G addresses nor filtering the mail in any way.  If someone sends mail to fG such an email address whose only purpose is a spam trap, it is obvious AG that the mail is spam and the sender is a spammer.  We then tie up his  H resources with the teergrubes, using only very few of our own resources.  G Unfortunately, since I moved to DSL for my hobbyist systems I have onlyEE one publicly visible IP address per site (I have 2 sites), so I can'tnC set up a teergrube myself (I need to receive email at both sites). oE (Unlike HTTP, SMTP must go through port 25, so I couldn't even have a D spam-trap MX point to, say, port 50025 and run a teergrube there.)  G (Well, I COULD run a conventional teegrube, but a) I don't know how to  G integrate it with SMTP from HP TCP/IP Services and b) it would require n$ maintaining a list of IP addresses).   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 2003 10:44:16 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)g  Subject: Re: Spamfilter for VMS?0 Message-ID: <b9vr20$cph$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  w In article <01KVX3W4JY5GAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:v/ >> the teergrube concept is a great one IMHO.    >v2 >I've been thinking about it for a few days now.   >r) >Is there any argument against it at all?F >lF >I think that an arbitrary email address which is publicly visible on A >usenet or the web will get harvested within a couple of days of 7G >appearing.  All we need is a few people to set up a teergrube, post a aJ >few hundred email addresses which are in every respect legitimate except F >that they are intended only as spam traps, i.e. the corresponding MX 7 >record points to the teergrube, and sit back and wait.5 >0H >What would be the optimum number of teergrubes and email addresses per 0 >teergrube to stop all spam as soon as possible?  N If you put the teergrube on a host that has no other mailer installed and openM port 25 in your firewall, the teergrube will receive spam without the need to O distribute any addresses beforehand. With the distribution of addresses it will0L be even better. To my impression, invalid addresses never disappear from theO e-mail address lists of the spammers. So the more you distribute, the better iteK is for us. I would estimate that distributing a few hundred addresses wouldr" already have a significant effect.  I I am willing to help setting up a teergrube. The problematic stuff is the2O TCP/IP stack. I think we should use Multinet's UCX emulation (we run Multinet), * that is calls to Compaq's TCP/IP services.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannh  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 03 13:49:04 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)s  Subject: Re: Spamfilter for VMS?) Message-ID: <YBD7lpE9feAh@elias.decus.ch>t  f In article <b9vr20$cph$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:   <snip>  > > To my impression, invalid addresses never disappear from the( > e-mail address lists of the spammers.   D I can confirm that. I got a spam last week which included an invalid> address that I only used in one single post to this newsgroup.  E It has got a lot worse lately. I have also noticed that they start toIG arrive at lunchtime here, and continue into the evening, which suggests ( they are coming from American timezones.   -- o
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 2003 12:43:53 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Spamfilter for VMS?5 Message-ID: <ba0229$n3kfn$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>g  ) In article <YBD7lpE9feAh@elias.decus.ch>,T, 	p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:h > In article <b9vr20$cph$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes: >  > <snip> > ? >> To my impression, invalid addresses never disappear from thei) >> e-mail address lists of the spammers. t > F > I can confirm that. I got a spam last week which included an invalid@ > address that I only used in one single post to this newsgroup. > G > It has got a lot worse lately. I have also noticed that they start totI > arrive at lunchtime here, and continue into the evening, which suggests * > they are coming from American timezones.  aD Probably.  You can blame us for the recent increase.  The governmentE has recently started hearings that will undoubtedly result in federalaF legislation making SPAM a violation of Federal Law.  The SPAMMERS knowC this and that there is virtually no chance that it won't happen, sorH they are making a last major attack while they can still say they aren'tG breaking any laws.  The same thing happened with tele-marketers callingwC on the phone.  My level of SPAM more than doubled the day after thet5 hearings were announced on the national evening news.h   bill   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   N   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:20:03 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>@  Subject: Re: Spamfilter for VMS?; Message-ID: <01KVX72USWOAAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  G > If you put the teergrube on a host that has no other mailer installediD > and open port 25 in your firewall, the teergrube will receive spam; > without the need to distribute any addresses beforehand. c  @ If you have an open really, presumably.  Of course, a teergrube I shouldn't relay anything, even if only slowly.  Thus, I think it is best  B if it is the machine to receive email sent to spam-trap addresses.  B > With the distribution of addresses it will be even better. To myG > impression, invalid addresses never disappear from the e-mail address I > lists of the spammers. So the more you distribute, the better it is for-F > us. I would estimate that distributing a few hundred addresses would% > already have a significant effect. r  C This is easy to do, without harming anyone.  Put them on a web page F discussing spam and urge folks to link to it (I doubt any spammer goesB to the trouble of looking at the context of the email addresses heG harvests) or post a few but not too many posts to alt.test or something @ (or post legitimate, on-topic posts to other newsgroups with the' spam-trap email address as the sender).r  B Presumably, for those who DO read the text accompanying the email F addresses, it should be clear that they are spam traps so that no-one H tries to send a legitimate reply (which might happen if it is part of a H legitimate, on-topic post on a newsgroup).  Also, although the spammers H seem to harvest everything, it would probably be better if they are not I obviously spam traps (e.g. not addresses like nobody@dontspammeagain.com >
 or whatever).s  G > I am willing to help setting up a teergrube. The problematic stuff isaJ > the TCP/IP stack. I think we should use Multinet's UCX emulation (we run8 > Multinet), that is calls to Compaq's TCP/IP services.   I It would be nice if someone could post turnkey code for such a teergrube   for VMS!   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 2003 14:24:33 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Spamfilter for VMS?5 Message-ID: <ba07v0$o3dud$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>-  3 In article <0P0AEpTZsKf0@eisner.encompasserve.org>,:0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:b > In article <ba0229$n3kfn$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > G >> Probably.  You can blame us for the recent increase.  The government6H >> has recently started hearings that will undoubtedly result in federalI >> legislation making SPAM a violation of Federal Law.  The SPAMMERS knowtF >> this and that there is virtually no chance that it won't happen, soK >> they are making a last major attack while they can still say they aren'ta >> breaking any laws.. > 4 > Conventional wisdom on news.admin.net-abuse.email 3                ^^^^^^    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ * Now there's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.  H >                                                    is that the DMA hasG > subverted the process and what comes out of congress will protect theiK > mainsleaze spammers, hurting only chickenboners like the Buffalo spammer.e  @ It is much too soon in the process for anyone to be assuming theH results are known.  Considering the fact that even the congress-crittersG know the importance of the INTERNET and understand that it's utility ismI decreasing every day, I expect they will do the right thing.  Against thenH wishes of the DMA telemarketers have been curbed to a very great degree.G I see no reason to assume they won't do the same to SPAMMERS.  The onlypG thing that remains to be seen is how they will handle enforcement.  ButeG even with minimal enforcement levels should drop considerably.  NothingaG will ever stop all of it without returning it to what it was originallyhE and ending all commercial use.  A good thing, but not going to happen' in my lifetime.    bill   -- SJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------    Date: 15 May 2003 09:08:37 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)X  Subject: Re: Spamfilter for VMS?3 Message-ID: <0P0AEpTZsKf0@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  ` In article <ba0229$n3kfn$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  F > Probably.  You can blame us for the recent increase.  The governmentG > has recently started hearings that will undoubtedly result in federaliH > legislation making SPAM a violation of Federal Law.  The SPAMMERS knowE > this and that there is virtually no chance that it won't happen, soeJ > they are making a last major attack while they can still say they aren't > breaking any laws.  E Conventional wisdom on news.admin.net-abuse.email is that the DMA has-E subverted the process and what comes out of congress will protect theiI mainsleaze spammers, hurting only chickenboners like the Buffalo spammer.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:08:33 GMTw& From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>  Subject: Re: Spamfilter for VMS?0 Message-ID: <CFN377565816999074@news.cup.hp.com>  F On 15 May 03 13:49:04 +0200 p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:    G > It has got a lot worse lately. I have also noticed that they start toeI > arrive at lunchtime here, and continue into the evening, which suggestso* > they are coming from American timezones. >   M This could be a question - it's better to run your spam robot at night (when sO the computer is not used and lines are faster) or during a day (when your home x, PC is switched on and parents are in work) ?  O The time alone is no proof, but you can also look at the headers for some more  I info. And yes, you are right - most of my received spam originates in US s
 domains...     Jirkai   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:35:23 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e2 Subject: Re: Stopping a que other then a print que' Message-ID: <3EC2EEDB.F01179BC@fsi.net>f   John Smith wrote:m > 9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messaged% > news:3EC05D98.1DA2DB89@istop.com...s > > David Froble wrote:oG > > > Don't know if it's always required, but long ago I learned to useu > the /NEXTm( > > > switch on any STOP/QUEUE commands. > >o/ > > yep. STOP/QUEUE only works on iddle queues.r > >n, > > And if you REALLY want to stop the queue > >  > > STOP/QUEUE chocolate_queue$ > > STOP/QUEUE/ABORT chocolate_queue$ > > STOP/QUEUE/RESET chocolate_queue > >o7 > > the first one prevents any more jobs from starting.a6 > > The second one stops the currently executing jobs.> > > The 3rd one makes sure the queue is really really stopped. > >a > >6= > > What is really neeeded is STOP/QUEUE/NOW=I_REALLY_MEAN_ITe > ! > STOP/QUEUE/RFN is more precise.g  H ...or, since DCL only considers the first four characters of a verb, how 'bout:   $ STOP_THE_MFING/QUEUE !DAMNIT!>   -- o David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 May 2003 00:12:55 -07007 From: stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge)o" Subject: Re: Structure Layout in C= Message-ID: <a48f6f51.0305142312.449ba78a@posting.google.com>.  M mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote in message news:<zDF2AuCjlOwj@cpva.saic.com>...3  
 > You can use  >   > $ cc/noobj/show=brief/list=tt: > L > to display the layout of the structures then you may be interested in. For) > the structure defined in the listing asc > / > 1907 struct { long sub1; long sub2; } timadr;P >  > you'd see  > 2 > Id name Line    Size    Aligned Storage Cl. Type2 > _______ ____    ____    _______ ___________ ____ >  > 5 > timadr  1907    8       long    Extern TDef struct rM >  sub1   1907    4       long                Member: (Offset=0) signed long eM >  sub2   1907    4       long                Member: (Offset=4) signed long   >  > ! > Then you might be interested inn >  > $ help cc lang prep #pragt > * > Take a look at member_alignment. You can > 0 > $ search sys$common:[decc*...]*.h member_align > / > to locate examples of usage if you need them.:  A Cheers Jim. That's just what I was looking for. It's a shame theyrE don't use similar qualifiers for similar tasks between the languages.C   Regards, Steveo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:46:12 -0500,( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: SWING & remote nodesh1 Message-ID: <03051511461224@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   E I was wondering if SWING could be modified to access files using FTP?   M For exampe, using SWING_REMOTE would prompt for node, username, password, andeJ then proceed to display files from the remote server and allow the user to% navigate those files and directories.    Aynone?    John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator, Dallas Semiconductor first.last@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:28:16 +0100e- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> 0 Subject: TCPware NETCP.LOG file - can I move it?E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854540@tahiti.tinuk.com>o  E I have a site or two where fragmentation is becoming a problem on the-G system disk, due in part to the expansion of the NETCP.LOG file. DFO is C battling against this, but it looks currently like a losing battle!r  ? Can I move this file OFF the system disk, away from the TCPWAREsD directory? The documentation doesn't appear to mention this, but I'm still reading hard...J   Cheers   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health   ------------------------------    Date: 15 May 2003 05:39:19 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: unix sues linux ... you don't get something for nothing!,= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305150439.76ba2332@posting.google.com>l  / looks like linux will not be free after all ...g( like I said, you don't get something for' nothing, or in this case, you don't get  nothing for nothing ...   ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9506   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:46:40 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>1E Subject: Re: unix sues linux ... you don't get something for nothing!jJ Message-ID: <4TMwa.171190$w7k.159492@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  	 Old news.e    5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0305150439.76ba2332@posting.google.com...T1 > looks like linux will not be free after all ... * > like I said, you don't get something for) > nothing, or in this case, you don't getp > nothing for nothing ...s >a* > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9506   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:38:43 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>rE Subject: Re: unix sues linux ... you don't get something for nothing!h( Message-ID: <3EC3B483.1010403@rdrop.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:A1 > looks like linux will not be free after all ..."  3 You're not much for reading comprehension, are you?m  * > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9506  F "The sound you hear is The SCO Group crisping in the fire it started."   ------------------------------   Date: 15 May 03 12:49:45 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)4* Subject: Re: VMS Admins with too much time) Message-ID: <wtquDntRB6E9@elias.decus.ch>   ^ In article <OFC552161F.021E55AC-ON85256D26.00454BAF@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > 3 > Way too much time, but what is "file system foo"?/   No idea.  > >> $! string and list manipulation, file system foo, and more. >  > E > From:  Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> on 05/14/2003 08:06 AMe > 9 > Please respond to Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>m >  > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:l > + > Subject:    VMS Admins with too much time  >  > # > I found the following script on :a/ > "http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/d.html".r >   7 With the excuse that I'm on holiday, here's my version:   % ! 10 Green bottles, sitting on a wall  $! Adapted by Paul Sture from: $! $! 99 bottles of beer + $! Written for VMS DCL by rsteenw@xs4all.nl0 $! $!: $! $fao is a system lexical function, where FAO stands for8 $! Formatted ASCII Output. There's a fair bunch of these: $! functions accessible via DCL (the command interpreter),= $! like querying system, device, process and user parameters,a; $! string and list manipulation, file system foo, and more.a $!
 $ cnt = 10D $ msg = f$fao("!UB green bottle!1%C!%Es!%F, sitting on a wall", cnt) $ loop:E $ write sys$output ""  $ write sys$output msg $ write sys$output msgH $ write sys$output "And if one green bottle should accidentally fall..." $ cnt = cnt - 1- $ if cnt .gt. 0s $ thenH $   msg = f$fao("!UB green bottle!1%C!%Es!%F, sitting on the wall", cnt)' $   write sys$output "There'd be ", msgs
 $   goto loop  $ elseG $   write sys$output "There'd be no green bottles, sitting on the wall"  $ endifn  ' Oh, I found an error in HELP LEX F$FAO:a   4.$ OFFSPRING = 1    $ REPORT = F$FAO-bJ    ("There !0UL!1%Cis!%Eare!%F !-!UL !-!0UL!1%Cchild!%Echildren!%Fhere",1)   $ SHOW SYMBOL REPORT#   $ REPORT ="There is 1 child here"    E should have OFFSPRING as the last parameter in the F$FAO call, not 1.t  F Now, being a good VMS citizen, I have just tried to report this to theG email address found in sys$help:openvmsdoc_comments.txt (Alpha V7.3-1).l  It's OPENVMSDOC@ZKO.MTS.DEC.COM.  H Somewhat dubious about whether that address would work, I posted anyway.: It was therefore no surprise to see my mail returned with:  3 Final-Recipient: rfc822; OPENVMSDOC@zko.mts.dec.com  Action: Failed& Status: 5.4.3 (routing server failure)  < So that's two documentation errors I now want to report. :-)  . Can anyone confirm if openvmsdoc@hp.com works? --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.268 ************************