1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 21 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 279       Contents:2 A couple examples of how SYS$GRANT_LICNESE is used A visit to the cemetary... Re: A visit to the cemetary... Re: A visit to the cemetary... Re: as2100 inside pictures Atten John Smith Re: Atten John Smith Re: Atten John Smith Re: Atten John Smith Re: Atten John Smith Re: Atten John Smith Re: CSWS 1.3 CGI question " Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1" Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1" Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1" Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1" Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1" Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1" Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1" Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1$ DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Days #1 & #2 Re: DFU question Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME  Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME  Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME   Gartners crystal ball craked ...: Re: getting data off an OpenVMS Alpha to Microsoft Windows# Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro # Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro # Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro & HP tops estimates, plans more job cuts, Just a thought about ISV support of IA64/VMS* Re: Logicals Lost When Process Is DetachedO Micro$oft 2003 Server/XP have huge firewall holes ... says buy another product!   Re: need help with VAX 4000-100A Re: New VMS logo ? Re: New VMS logo ?@ Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down!@ Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down!@ Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down!@ Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down!@ Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down! Re: OpenVMS and TomCat 4.1.24 P Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium -  FIRST Itanium(tP Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium -  FIRST Itanium(tP Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium -  FIRST Itanium(tP Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium -  FIRST Itanium(tP Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium - FIRST Itanium(tmP Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium - FIRST Itanium(tmP Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium - FIRST Itanium(tm- Re: PHP Monitor (was: as2100 inside pictures) $ Re: prod install hung - help please!$ Re: prod install hung - help please! RDB v?:  ODBC??? Re: RDB v?:  ODBC??? Re: RDB v?:  ODBC??? Re: RDB v?:  ODBC??? Re: RUN /DETACHED  SHOW PROCESS bug on VMS 7.2-2  Re: SWING & remote nodes1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report 1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report 1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report 1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report 1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report 1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report . Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?2 Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?2 Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?2 Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?2 Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?2 Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?2 Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?" Re: [MOZILLA B1.4] Junk Controls ?0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"0 Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 23:58:38 GMT 4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>; Subject: A couple examples of how SYS$GRANT_LICNESE is used 1 Message-ID: <Oizya.1184$Qn1.316@news.cpqcorp.net>   F For those who asked in email, here are a couple examples of how to useE SYS$GRANT_LICENSE() along with one example for SYS$RELEASE_LICENSE(). = If you would like to get a copy of the PDF file that has this ; information, send me an email and I will forward it to you.     
 Sincerely,	 Mark Buda  Hewlett-Packard Company  VMS Engineering  110 Spitbrook Road
 MS: ZK3-4/X57  Nashua, NH 03062 Voice: (603) 884-1969  FAX: (603) 884-3451      Example G These segments of examples use the license authorization system service 2 call for a product. The examples are written in C.   #include descrip #define LMF$_PROD_VERSION 3  #define LMF$_PROD_DATE 4 #define LMF$_PROD_TOKEN 1    typedef struct _quad_word {  long int upper_long; long int lower_long; } quad_word;   typedef struct _long_word {  short int upper_word;  short int lower_word;  } long_word;   main() {  long status; quad_word product_date;  long_word product_vers = {6,4};  short *tokenlen; char prtoken[31];    struct { short itm$w_buflen ; short itm$w_code ; char *itm$a_addr ; short *itm$a_lenaddr ; } grant_license_items[] = { = sizeof (quad_word), LMF$_PROD_DATE, (char *)&product_date, 0, @ sizeof (long_word), LMF$_PROD_VERSION, (char *)&product_vers, 0,( 31, LMF$_PROD_TOKEN, prtoken, &tokenlen,
 0, 0, 0, 0 };- static $DESCRIPTOR (product_name, "FORTRAN"); * static $DESCRIPTOR (product_owner, "DEC");? static $DESCRIPTOR (product_date_string, "1-APR-1988 0:0:0.0");   = /* Use the VMS System Service SYS$BINTIM to convert the ASCII =    representation of the release date to an absolute or delta     time version. */ 9 status = SYS$BINTIM(&product_date_string, &product_date); % if ((status & 1) != 1) exit (status);   6 /* Call the SYS$GRANT_LICENSE system service and store    the return status. */* status = SYS$GRANT_LICENSE( &product_name,  &product_owner,  ,  &grant_license_items); : if ((status & 1) != 1) exit (status); /* not authorized */  ; /* otherwise, it is authorized, use the product token... */  }   G This is an example of a license authorization system service call for a D product licensed with an availability license. The SYS$GRANT_LICENSEH checks whether enough units are available to use the product and returnsD the success status SS$_NORMAL if successful. If there are not enough? units on the particular system and the product is installed and H authorized for use in a VMSCluster setting the system determines whetherH enough units are available across the VMSCluster setting. It returns the success status SS$_NORMAL if successful.    #include descrip #define LMF$_PROD_DATE 4 #define LMF$_PROD_TOKEN 1    typedef struct _quad_word {  long int upper_long; long int lower_long; } quad_word;   main() {  long status; quad_word product_date;  short *tokenlen; char prtoken[31];    struct { short itm$w_buflen ; short itm$w_code ; char *itm$a_addr ; short *itm$a_lenaddr ; } grant_license_items[] = { = sizeof (quad_word), LMF$_PROD_DATE, (char *)&product_date, 0, ( 31, LMF$_PROD_TOKEN, prtoken, &tokenlen,
 0, 0, 0, 0 };- static $DESCRIPTOR (product_name, "FORTRAN"); * static $DESCRIPTOR (product_owner, "DEC");? static $DESCRIPTOR (product_date_string, "1-APR-1988 0:0:0.0");   > /* Use SYS$BINTIM to convert the ASCII string representing the2    the date to an absolute or delta time value. */<    status = SYS$BINTIM(&product_date_string, &product_date);% if ((status & 1) != 1) exit (status);   6 /* Call the SYS$GRANT_LICENSE system service and store    the return status. */: status = SYS$GRANT_LICENSE(&product_name, &product_owner,, &grant_license_items);  A /* Test whether the current number of license users in the system (    is greater than the license units. */  if (status == LICENSE$_EXCEEDED)&     { /* process the busy condition */       /* if desired */
     } else     if (!status) return (status);6 /* otherwise it is authorized, use product token... */ }   G This is an example of a license authorization system service call for a G product licensed with an activity license. The SYS$GRANT_LICENSE checks G whether the current users of the license in the system number more than B the license units. If the current number of users is less than theG license units, the system returns the success status SS$_NORMAL. If the H current number of users of the license in the system is greater than theH license units, the system returns the error status LICENSE$_EXCEEDED. IfB the license is not authorized, the system returns the error status LICENSE$_NOLICENSE.   H ************************************************************************ ***************  SYS$RELEASE_LICENSE()    Example F This example shows a license release system service call for a product  licensed with an N-user license.   #include descrip #define LMF$_PROD_DATE 4 #define LMF$_PROD_TOKEN 1    typedef struct _quad_word {  long int upper_long; long int lower_long; } quad_word;   main() {  long status; quad_word product_date;  short *tokenlen; char prtoken[31];  long int license_context;    struct { short itm$w_buflen ; short itm$w_code ; char *itm$a_addr ; short *itm$a_lenaddr ; } grant_license_items[] = { = sizeof (quad_word), LMF$_PROD_DATE, (char *)&product_date, 0, ( 31, LMF$_PROD_TOKEN, prtoken, &tokenlen,
 0, 0, 0, 0 };  - static $DESCRIPTOR (product_name, "FORTRAN"); * static $DESCRIPTOR (product_owner, "DEC");? static $DESCRIPTOR (product_date_string, "1-APR-1988 0:0:0.0");   > /* Use SYS$BINTIM to convert the ASCII string representing the2    the date to an absolute or delta time value. */9 status = SYS$BINTIM(&product_date_string, &product_date); % if ((status & 1) != 1) exit (status);   6 /* Call the SYS$GRANT_LICENSE system service and store    the return status. */* status = SYS$GRANT_LICENSE( &product_name,  &product_owner,  &license_context,  &grant_license_items);   A /* Test whether the current number of license users in the system (    is greater than the license units. */  if (status == LICENSE$_EXCEEDED)" { /* process the busy condition */ /* if desired */ }  else if (!status) return (status);- /* otherwise it is authorized, use product */  /* at end of use... *// status = SYS$RELEASE_LICENSE(&license_context);  }   G The system attempts to release the license units when the user finishes F using the product. If it is successful, the system returns the success status SS$_NORMAL.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:58:52 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com># Subject: A visit to the cemetary... ) Message-ID: <3ECACF4A.2AAC9CBD@istop.com>   B Went to a computer cemetary today, hunting for a VRT19 display....  L There was a LOT of gear, surprisingly lots of SUN equipment and displays. SoH much so that in one room, they just puile the stuff into a huge mound ofJ displays, and one has to litterally climb over the displays to explore theM mound, anmd there is no way to see any display that would have been "burried" L deep. I think they need to hire kids to explore to make an inventory of that display room !  I Surprisingly, there wasn't that much DEC gear. However, they have another I warehouse and there is supposedly a lot more DEC gear over there. This is G including the big Alpha Servers that the quebec government had begun to K purchased when it announced plans to migrate all its mainframes to Tru64 on L Alpha in February 2001. With both Tru64 and Alpha gone, thoe surplus servers< are going to the junkyard. (those will probably be rescued).    N I did find a VRC21-HA display  wich has the 5 BNC connectors (circa 1995) DoesJ anyone know if this monitor can do the sync-on-green for a vaxstation 3100 with SPX card ?   K Also, can I buy any monitor that can sync on green, or must I find one with  specific frequency ?    ; I did find an ethernet card for my laser printer though :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 03:33:27 GMT + From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu> ' Subject: Re: A visit to the cemetary... + Message-ID: <3ecaf383@news-1.oit.umass.edu>   + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: D > Went to a computer cemetary today, hunting for a VRT19 display....  N > There was a LOT of gear, surprisingly lots of SUN equipment and displays. SoJ > much so that in one room, they just puile the stuff into a huge mound ofL > displays, and one has to litterally climb over the displays to explore theO > mound, anmd there is no way to see any display that would have been "burried" N > deep. I think they need to hire kids to explore to make an inventory of that > display room !  K > Surprisingly, there wasn't that much DEC gear. However, they have another K > warehouse and there is supposedly a lot more DEC gear over there. This is I > including the big Alpha Servers that the quebec government had begun to M > purchased when it announced plans to migrate all its mainframes to Tru64 on N > Alpha in February 2001. With both Tru64 and Alpha gone, thoe surplus servers> > are going to the junkyard. (those will probably be rescued).    P > I did find a VRC21-HA display  wich has the 5 BNC connectors (circa 1995) DoesL > anyone know if this monitor can do the sync-on-green for a vaxstation 3100 > with SPX card ?   H Unless you stumbled upon a strange variant of the VRC21, then it will doG sync-on-green.  It should work with 3100, as it is a mult-sync monitor. F I have one on my 3100 M76 SPX machine at home.  As I recall, the VRC21I can work with with sync-on-green, combined sync or separate sync using 3, I 4 or 5 of the BNC connectors.  Some VRC21's have a working VGA input, but < some have a non-functioning VGA connector on the back panel.  M > Also, can I buy any monitor that can sync on green, or must I find one with  > specific frequency ?  D You need a specific frequency sync-on-green or one that multi-syncs.  = > I did find an ethernet card for my laser printer though :-)     Joe Heimann   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 00:14:18 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>' Subject: Re: A visit to the cemetary... ) Message-ID: <3ECAFD0A.1D0DEEC4@istop.com>    Joe Heimann wrote:J > Unless you stumbled upon a strange variant of the VRC21, then it will doI > sync-on-green.  It should work with 3100, as it is a mult-sync monitor. H > I have one on my 3100 M76 SPX machine at home.  As I recall, the VRC21K > can work with with sync-on-green, combined sync or separate sync using 3, ! > 4 or 5 of the BNC connectors.     ( Thanks ! I may go for that monitor then.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 12:46:54 -0700" From: horn@shsu.edu (James T Horn)# Subject: Re: as2100 inside pictures = Message-ID: <843706dc.0305201146.52b48717@posting.google.com>   3 Could you send some instructions for setting it up?   r Roland Barmettler <spamsink@crapmail.com> wrote in message news:<20030520144911.016ca55c.spamsink@crapmail.com>... > Hello  > ; > Some of you were interested in the PHP monitor interface. G > It's quite simple and I don't take any responsibility if it's messing " > something up on your system. ;-) > 1 > http://naboo.freestone.net/sysinfo/monitor.phps  >  > Cheers, Roland   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 16:56:55 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)  Subject: Atten John Smith = Message-ID: <857e9e41.0305201556.303b8ee2@posting.google.com>    John Smith,   C I am assuming that this is not your real name.  If that is the case D would you mind changing it to another name like John Doe.  We have aB great guy here in VMS with the real name of John Smith and you are causing some confusion.    sue    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 00:59:57 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) Subject: Re: Atten John Smith ? Message-ID: <dcAya.399081$Si4.344796@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   q In article <857e9e41.0305201556.303b8ee2@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:  >John Smith, > D >I am assuming that this is not your real name.  If that is the caseE >would you mind changing it to another name like John Doe.  We have a C >great guy here in VMS with the real name of John Smith and you are  >causing some confusion.  $ Excuse me for butting in here...	:-)  3 How about, "Mr. John Q. Smith, of Anytown, U.S.A."?    :-)   O I would have posted this privately to "Mr. Smith", but he remains a@nonymous...    >  >sue  A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:46:01 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Atten John Smith ) Message-ID: <3ECACC48.EFBAABEE@istop.com>    Sue Skonetski wrote:E > I am assuming that this is not your real name.  If that is the case F > would you mind changing it to another name like John Doe.  We have aD > great guy here in VMS with the real name of John Smith and you are > causing some confusion.   ? Which John Smith frist staked his claim to his name on usenet ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:25:01 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Atten John Smith ) Message-ID: <3ECAD569.255510AE@istop.com>    "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote: 5 > How about, "Mr. John Q. Smith, of Anytown, U.S.A."?    "our" Mr Smith is from Canada.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:43:38 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) Subject: Re: Atten John Smith / Message-ID: <eRAya.956557$S_4.973555@rwcrnsc53>   V In article <3ECAD569.255510AE@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >"Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:6 >> How about, "Mr. John Q. Smith, of Anytown, U.S.A."? >  >"our" Mr Smith is from Canada.    Oops, I forgot (rogers cable?).   , My allusion was to something from 1969...:-)  A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:45:47 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  Subject: Re: Atten John Smith / Message-ID: <vclq2tmvrffuac@news.supernews.com>   > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:857e9e41.0305201556.303b8ee2@posting.google.com... 
 > John Smith,  > E > I am assuming that this is not your real name.  If that is the case F > would you mind changing it to another name like John Doe.  We have aD > great guy here in VMS with the real name of John Smith and you are > causing some confusion.  >   L Actually, I would appreciate it if you could change "John" to some else too.   John Vottero   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 00:02:29 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")" Subject: Re: CSWS 1.3 CGI question6 Message-ID: <00A2027A.0F31CA9A@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <d7791aa1.0305200907.5b956585@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A201BB.E2105F07@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>... h >> In article <Cyeya.4382$eo1.206447@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >>  P >> That would appear to be the case; I probably made some kind of transcription M >> error in combining my lists of variables supported by the three browsers I Q >> covered.  I'm sorry for the error, and if there's a second edition of the book  >> I'll get it fixed.  > < >another mistake was to not include purveyor in the book ..., >will you be fixing that in the 2nd edition?  M There is as yet no guarantee of a 2nd edition; at last report we'd sold about M 1/4 of the first edition (which is actually very gratifying; this is a really L niche market, and I was amazed that they decided to print 5000 books until aO friend who knows about the economics of this type of printing told me that 5000 G didn't cost a lot more than 1000; the biggest costs were in the setup.)   H However, I very strongly doubt that Purveyor will be included in the 2nd edition even if there is one.   G (Among other things, Bob, at this point you know a whole lot more about M Purveyor than I  do, so I don't know how useful what I could learn and impart * in a quarter of the book would be to you.)  M If there's a second edition it'll catch up on changes in WASD and OSU but the # big thing will be Apache version 2.   E I don't really want to be touting a webserver that's not under active G development and hasn't been for years, doesn't have a hobbyist license, L and has a very small share of the market.  If Process were still maintaining% and enhancing it, it'd be on my list.   N If you'd like Purveyor to be included, write to Digital Press and express that opinion.   -- Alan    --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:16:53 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1 ) Message-ID: <3ECA7113.9E3D81DD@istop.com>    Robert Deininger wrote: K > Again, Stallard didn't say this.  No matter how many times you stretch it > > and take a sentence out of context, it doesn't make it true.  N I suggest you lookup Google for the infamous May 7th memo from Scott Stallard.N No matter how often you deny he said this, he still said it in the memo, it is% at the end in the questions/answers.    I Because of complaints, the memo was modified after publication, and still M stuck his foot in his mouth by stating that HP would help those VMS customers L wishing to migrate to HP-UX. Not as bas as "expects VMS customers to migrate to HP-UX", but still very bad.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:23:21 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1 ) Message-ID: <3ECA7296.CCC7FE4E@istop.com>    Kenneth Farmer wrote: F > We will also migrate our hp OpenVMS application portfolio to ItaniumJ > together with or along with; in addition to; as well as will provide newN > tools and services to assist customers who wish or long for; want; express a1 > wish for; request a desire to migrate to HP-UX.   " We will help you migrate to HP-UX.  I Doesn't sound to me like a company wishing to grow the VMS customer base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:18:56 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1 ) Message-ID: <3ECA718E.867A8AC6@istop.com>    Simon Clubley wrote:O > If it's a "if you have already decided to leave VMS, we want you to stay with  > HP" I can live with that.    NO !  L "If you've decided to leave VMS, we are here to change you mind and see that VMS is THE  best solution."   N That is what a vendor would be expected to state whenever a customer indicates4 the possibility of abandonning a profitable product.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:34:15 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1 2 Message-ID: <bfacndacQsWhHlejXTWcoA@metrocast.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3ECA7113.9E3D81DD@istop.com...  > Robert Deininger wrote: J > > Again, Stallard didn't say this.  No matter how many times you stretch it@ > > and take a sentence out of context, it doesn't make it true. > F > I suggest you lookup Google for the infamous May 7th memo from Scott	 Stallard. J > No matter how often you deny he said this, he still said it in the memo, it is & > at the end in the questions/answers. > K > Because of complaints, the memo was modified after publication, and still E > stuck his foot in his mouth by stating that HP would help those VMS 	 customers F > wishing to migrate to HP-UX. Not as bas as "expects VMS customers to migrate   > to HP-UX", but still very bad.  A People whose minds are already made up won't bother to search for L themselves, JF:  you have to spoon-feed unpleasant facts to them if you want! them to pay any attention at all.   J The discussion after the May 7, 2002 statement was a real trip down memoryB lane - it seems so long ago.  The particular quote in question (asL supposedly provided verbatim by Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com to correct an earlier> and even blunter version that he thought was a paraphrase) is:  , Q: Will you offer a migration path to HP-UX?3 A: Yes. We believe HP-UX on Itanium is an excellent . long-term choice for OpenVMS customers, but we3 want to support them moving on their own timetable. 1 We will be evaluating what new tools and services 0 may be required to help them transition to HP-UX if they so desire.  F While there's arguably a small amount of wiggle-room in the above, anyK neutral (and competent) reader would find in it the indication that there's H no need to panic right now (because VMS will be available on Itanic) butF that VMS customers *will* over the longer term be faced with migrationD decisions ("we want to support them moving on their own timetable"),K presumably because remaining on VMS will eventually become fairly untenable I (but at a time when HP-UX, by contrast, remains viable, not at some misty E point in a far-distant future that no one should be concerned about).    - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>+ Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1 ? Message-ID: <20030520214212.8488.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>   	 WHAT ????    ABOUT 150.000 LEGACY VAXES?   C Oh what big  number ! So, from those ... 400.000, just (+-) 250.000  using Alphas !    ? So the way is to port all these people from VAX to IA64. May be - Charon VAX  will be ported to Itanium, ok  ?         Regards  FC  ' --- Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote:  > Hi from Amsterdam, >  > A summary of day #1:: > http://www.hp-interex.org/conference2003/sag_monday.html > I > 1. A strong message: All VMS sessions took place in the Auditorium (700  > seats) > N > 2. A quote from Rich Marcello "We nearly commited to have OpenVMS on Itanium > for ever"  > H > 3. A information from Mark Gorham "There are still 150 000 VAX running > today" > N > 4. A quote from Mark "the objective is not to prevent VMS users to leave VMS) > but to allow VMS users to stay with HP"  > D > 5. An information from Rich "VAX and Alpha Customers who are underC > maintenance will upgrade to IA64 for free. Others will have a 40% 
 > reduction".  >  > Now, some subjective data. > N > Rich Marcello's General Intro session gathered around 150 persons (I'll post! > my pictures when I'm back home)  > / > Mark had around 100 people in the auditorium.  > # > Christian Moser had much more :-)  >  > (end of weather report)  >  > D. >  >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:41:00 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1 2 Message-ID: <0ayya.8519$bA5.121249@news.chello.at>  c In article <E6RAgJwN9dtG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: \ >In article <3eca4abb$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:E >>> 3) When are OpenVMS customer success stories going to be used for G >>> anything other than a .pdf file on the web site? These pdf's aren't I >>> seen by anyone other than those who specifically go looking for them, G >>> which is usually existing OpenVMS system managers/customers looking H >>> for ammunition to present to their management as reasons NOT to dump% >>> OpenVMS from their organizations.  >>  M >> exactly which success stories are not in HTML format? where on the OpenVMS  >> site is this? >>  L >> Since I put EVERY success story, presentation and any other windows based$ >> document into HTML format for theJ >> web site if I've overlooked one please let me know and I'll get an html4 >> version up asap. Having just checked I don't findL >> any PDF only documents on the site. Again if you find a pdf only document( >> without an html document let me know. > 1 >Thanks Warren for the conversion to HTML effort. L >It makes a big difference to be able to see it from the platform discussed.  % Yup. And I like to thank Warren also.   @ But as I interpret the question of "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>G I'd say, that Warren didn't understand what John was asking. It was not M to criticize the webmaster (Warren) about using PDF (or HTML as Warren wrote) M it was to state the fact, that such success stories are ONLY on the webserver J and not in every appropriate trade magazine, in most HPQ advertisements orI at every (non-VMS-only) computing exhibition, as this would take the hard J and thankless work of VMS marketing away from VMS system managers and give? it back where it belongs, to the hands of HPQ VMS marketeers...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:30:22 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>+ Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1 / Message-ID: <3ECA824E.14415.1A503BA4@localhost>   - On 20 May 2003 at 14:42, Fabio Cardoso wrote: A > So the way is to port all these people from VAX to IA64. May be / > Charon VAX  will be ported to Itanium, ok  ?    # No product announcement yet, but...   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:24:23 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Day #1 5 Message-ID: <1030521003114.2914B-100000@Ives.egh.com>   $ On 20 May 2003, Simon Clubley wrote:  ] > In article <3ec9d973$0$29706$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> writes:  > > Hi from Amsterdam, > >  > 5 > Interesting comments, I have a couple of questions:  >  > > P > > 4. A quote from Mark "the objective is not to prevent VMS users to leave VMS+ > > but to allow VMS users to stay with HP"  > >  > + > In what context was this statement made ?  > O > If it's a "if you have already decided to leave VMS, we want you to stay with  > HP" I can live with that.  > B > If this was not in that context, then it's a wierd thing to say.  C This sounds mangled to me.  The simplest change that I can think of > that results in a statement that makes sense is to reverse theA sense of the verb "prevent" to something like "force", which then B makes the statement much more positive.  Was anyone else there who" could verify his actual words? [1]   > F > > 5. An information from Rich "VAX and Alpha Customers who are underE > > maintenance will upgrade to IA64 for free. Others will have a 40%  > > reduction".  > >  > O > Interesting. Does this mean that we are about to see a forced platform change  > to IA-64 ? >  > Simon.  G I took this to be a description of a license upgrade/migration/trade-in E program...  "If you are under maintenance, you can swap your Alpha or G VAX licenses for IA64 licenses free.  If you are not under maintenance, G you can trade in the Alpha and/or VAX licenses for IA64 ones at 40% off C list price."  (Or maybe with a discount equal to 40% of the current F value of the Alpha or VAX licenses, or 40% of what you paid originallyF for the Alpha or VAX licenses or some other formula with a 40% in it.)  I DEC offered similar programs when Alpha was introduced.  For that matter,hE ISTR being able to trade in PDP-11 licenses for VMS licenses way backo/ when...  "Free" sounds like a pretty good deal.   C The only thing that implies force is the "will".  Is this just poor C use of the English language (should be "will be able to" or "may"),eB or a problem with transcription?  AFAIK, no one is being forced toD do anything, and "force" is incompatible with the statements HP haveF been making about supporting Alphas for long after last customer ship,E keep a common code base, etc.  If he really is saying "will", meaningdE "this is the future, like it or not", why hasn't HP said so somewhere F official?  If HP wants to force everyone off VAX and Alpha immediatelyC when VMS-IA64 ships, but doesn't want to say so publicly right now,.D why did he make this statement at all?  Doesn't make any sense.  The? non-paranoid explanation that this is either a misquote or poor " English usage makes perfect sense.  @ I wish people would be more careful about what they say.  Stupid, misstatements reverberate forever on usenet.  C [1] "The police aren't in the streets to prevent disorder; they are.B in the streets to preserve disorder."  -- Mayor Richard J. Daley,  Chicago, 1968. [2]  B [2] Okay, so I misquoted him slightly...  Actually, I did a google? search, and all the quotes were slightly different.  I rememberh  "prevent", so I'm going with it.   -- e John Santosn Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:02:25 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>C- Subject: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Days #1 & #2o5 Message-ID: <badu4d$se3kt$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>M   Didier,A  J the total event had about 900 registered participants which is an all time low for a DECUS-Europe event.SL But the majority were VMS users and about half the presentation were on VMS.J The Intel presentation today on Itanium drew about 50 people, the audienceJ about VMS on Itanium was only a little smaller. The material about VMS and futureJ developments was quite reassuring. I have to skip Wednesday's sessions andJ therefore miss Terry Shannon's closing session. But during the lunch breakL yesterday he ended up at my table and I'm sure we all had a pretty good "pre& presentation". That was the good part.  L I was disapointed for the first time after visiting DECUS. There were breaksL between all sessions. OK it was nice to get to another room for once withoutE interrupting the speaker. But a 1.5 hour lunchbreak is just too much.tJ At DECUS coffee is usally free. In Amsterdam that was true only during the, lunch break, otherwise it did cost EUR 1.70.< My appologies for this demonstration of Dutch hospitality...  
 Hans Vlems  1 "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> schreef in berichto. news:3ec9d973$0$29706$626a54ce@news.free.fr... > Hi from Amsterdam, >h > A summary of day #1:: > http://www.hp-interex.org/conference2003/sag_monday.html > I > 1. A strong message: All VMS sessions took place in the Auditorium (700h > seats) >HF > 2. A quote from Rich Marcello "We nearly commited to have OpenVMS on ItaniumM > for ever"J > H > 3. A information from Mark Gorham "There are still 150 000 VAX running > today" >yJ > 4. A quote from Mark "the objective is not to prevent VMS users to leave VMSe) > but to allow VMS users to stay with HP"e >TD > 5. An information from Rich "VAX and Alpha Customers who are underC > maintenance will upgrade to IA64 for free. Others will have a 40% 
 > reduction".q >e > Now, some subjective data. > I > Rich Marcello's General Intro session gathered around 150 persons (I'lly post! > my pictures when I'm back home)] >P/ > Mark had around 100 people in the auditorium.P >y# > Christian Moser had much more :-)i >] > (end of weather report)  >  > D. >- >-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:31:18 GMT26 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: DFU questionj1 Message-ID: <qgwya.6216$bA5.97012@news.chello.at>u  g In article <bacqtj$je2$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: ! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:I; >> DFU V2.7A (24-SEP-2002) seems to be the current version.f >> w> >> 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/dfu027a/ >> sK >> (which seems strange as the dfu027a.zip there has a date of 14-Aug-2002)e >t! >Just trying to install that now. A >Fetched the AXP PCSI kit, logged in as system, did prod ins dfu.)% >It got rapidly to 90%, then stalled.xH >It's been stalled for nearly an hour, in LEF state, using no resources.$ >Control/C recommends continuing ... >Any suggestions anyone ?c  : Probably the IVP of PCSI has process quota limit problems.7 So, abort, increase them, and eventually reinstall DFU.d  @ Or use AMDS/AVAILMAN to analyze this now and increase the limits1 without quitting and restarting the installation.d   >DS20E, VMS 7.3_I >(the PCSI kit contains .obj files, so the .exe date is not significant).   I Yup. The 24-SEP-2002 was the installation date of DFU on this my machine.uD Sorry for the confusion, but firsthand I didn't expect .OBJ there...  $ btw: Consider V7.3-1 instead of V7.3 --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERM% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:27:36 -0400t! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>"  Subject: Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME' Message-ID: <3ECA81A8.B5E0E212@vcu.edu>U  1 any q-bus SCSI adapters??? I'd DRIVE up for one..S   jim    Lord Isildur wrote:r > D > So, my revised list of hardware free to a good home is as follows: >  > 1 IBM RS6000 powerstation 250d > 1 Macintosh IIcx > 1 DECstation 3100u > 2 DECstation 2100Y > 1 DECstation 5000/125r > 1 DEC3000/300  > 1 VAX 11/730 > 1 VAX 11/750 > 1 HP 9000/300E > 1 sparc 2m$ > 1 sun 3/60, the original pizza box > All the guts of a VAX 6410 > 1 TU80 9track tape drive > 1 DECsystem 5400) > 1 MicroVAX in a BA213 - must go quicklyc1 > Lots of TK50s, Qbus parts, and tons of manuals.s > 5 > All the gear is in Pittsburgh, PA, free for pickup.d >  > Happy hacking,	 > isildure   -- AF "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:56:52 GMTt" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME0 Message-ID: <00A20270.E545E546@SendSpamHere.ORG>  v In article <Pine.GSO.4.55L-032.0305201238560.3039@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>, Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> writes: >sC >So, my revised list of hardware free to a good home is as follows:O >O >1 IBM RS6000 powerstation 250 >1 Macintosh IIcxp >1 DECstation 3100 >2 DECstation 2100 >1 DECstation 5000/125 >1 DEC3000/300
 >1 VAX 11/730e
 >1 VAX 11/750n  * Any pix of the VAX 11/730 or VAX 11/750???   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" u   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:47:16 -0400 (EDT)E+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>$  Subject: Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOMEH Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.55L-032.0305202245350.9086@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>  - some pics of some of the gear can be found atn/ http://www.vaxpower.org/~isildur/computers.htmle- No pics of the 730, but a couple of the 750s.e? The 730 has already been claimed (though not finalized), as has  one of the 750s! :)N   happy hacking, isildurd  3 On Tue, 20 May 2003 VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:C  x > In article <Pine.GSO.4.55L-032.0305201238560.3039@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>, Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> writes: > > E > >So, my revised list of hardware free to a good home is as follows:E > >   > >1 IBM RS6000 powerstation 250 > >1 Macintosh IIcxi > >1 DECstation 3100 > >2 DECstation 2100 > >1 DECstation 5000/125 > >1 DEC3000/300 > >1 VAX 11/730. > >1 VAX 11/750i >n, > Any pix of the VAX 11/730 or VAX 11/750??? >e > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMh >e6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >e >a   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 17:45:31 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Gartners crystal ball craked ...u= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305201645.591d996b@posting.google.com>   1 no Bill, my crystal is just fine ... it's GartnerC who has a problem ...   ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9575   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:53:40 GMT*1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>*C Subject: Re: getting data off an OpenVMS Alpha to Microsoft Windowsc2 Message-ID: <3ECADA60.26839FC7@firstdbasource.com>   David Froble wrote:e >  > Michael Austin wrote:f >  > > Zack Sessions wrote: > >PH > >>I work for a software house whose primary product line is a suite ofJ > >>applications that run on Windows NT to support the information storage> > >>needs of public safety agencies such as Police and SheriffB > >>Departments, 911 Centers, Fire Departments and EMS. One of theJ > >>services we provide for our new customers is to transfer the data fromI > >>their former computer systems to a historical database in order to doE  > >>lookups on their older data. > >>G > >>We have an agency who has been using our software for about 5 yearsdJ > >>now, but they never tried to send us their old data for mapping to ourJ > >>historical database. The system that was running on now is so old thatJ > >>there is no one who works there now who knows anything about it at theI > >>system level. It is an Alpha workstation running OpenVMS V6.something A > >>and a custom application package called COPS. It is no longertG > >>connected to their network. No one there even remembered the SYSTEMe
 > >>password!o > >>H > >>A couple of my co-workers spent the entire day yesterday onsite withH > >>the idea of trying to transfer the files to a laptop running WindowsI > >>NT through a serial connection. I have the most former VMS experiance F > >>(6 years working for DEC in the early 80's and 13 years managing aH > >>farm of VAXen at a major GE manufacturing site) of us and was on theH > >>phone with the guys for most of the day. But since it has been aboutI > >>five years since I really had anything to do with VMS it took us mosttF > >>of the day just to get back into the backdoor and reset the SYSTEM
 > >>password.u > K > An Alpha running V6.* should have a TCP/IP license.  Actually the old UCXc3 > product.  Still, a simple FTP should be possible.. > Q > Use a 'crossover' cable to network the 2 systems together.  FTP the data files,.P > if applicable.  However, if they're not simple text files, then you're lookingR > at first converting the data to something you can use on the windoz systems.  ItN > would be best to do this before removing the data from the Alpha.  OtherwiseN > you'll be back here next month asking us how to extract data from the RMS or > whatever files.  > F > Knowing the COPS software and data structures would also be helpful. > H > >>We now plan to go back again and try to get the data. Since its beenF > >>so long since I was "intimate" with VMS, I have forgotton a lot ofG > >>stuff. The main things that would help me would be some pointers on E > >>the best way to transfer this data (any new purchases of softwarehE > >>utilities for the Alpha would be out of the question, freeware issH > >>another thing entirely!). I tried to access Hunter Goatley's websiteG > >>looking for VMS freeware but the last reference to a link I saw was E > >>several years ago and the link is now invalid. A link or links to1? > >>where some VMS freeware is available would be very helpful.  > >>I > >>Thanks in advance for any help. Replies either here or in email wouldn > >>be welcome.s > >> > >>Zack Sessions  > R > Hunter is still around, and so is the site with all the software.  Maybe the VMS > FAQ would also be helpful. > H > > or, you can ship the box to someone qualified to remove the data andE > > send it to you in zip files.  FirstDBASource.com comes to mind :)o > 4 > It was about time for another shameless plug.  :-)  A Hey, a guy has got to make a living - ummm, errrr, spending moneyp somehow.... :)   -- t Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163o7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:40:19 -0400s+ From: "Ron Milen" <milenronald@mailbag.net>i, Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro! Message-ID: <3ecaa0b5_4@newsfeed>v   Hi,e  G     When I fill out the form for an associate license I get back a mailsG message with the data I entered in the form but I don't get a username,gE password, & the equivalent of a DECUS membership number.  Without theeI number, it won't let me register for a hobbyest license.  What am I doingh wrong?  	 Ron Milen  Milen Consulting Services( milenronald@yahoo.comr  8 "David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message% news:baabep$cl8$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...n9 > In article <CFN377605063994213@news.cup.hp.com>, Wolandx! <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> writes: K > >On 16 May 2003 10:02:08 -0700 daniel@mimer.se (Daniel Gustafsson) wrote:c > >rK > >>> I believe the US Chapter known as Encompass-US accepts non-US members C > >>> for purposes of the hobbyist license. Didn't check into that,t	 though...- > >>>n! > >>> http://www.encompassus.com/i > >>>  > >>H > >> Yes, that is correct, Encommpass-US accepts non-US citizens, and ifK > >> the only reason is to get a hobbyist license the Associate option is a  > >> good alternative. > >>4 > >> http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html > >o > >dJ > >Thanks, this seems to be the way. However, the "free" hobbyists license thenJ > >costs $135 ($90 for US citizens), which is not that bad for me, but forF > >students or other kind of let-me-try users it's still too much when compared > >to Linux or BSD.. > >j >:K > I think you are looking at the wrong part of the page. The $135 is for an J > international individual membership ie a full member but based overseas. >,J > What you want is at the bottom of the page an associate membership which is > "complimentary" ie free.J > I believe that this is available to non-US citizens even though the form doesJ > have a mandatory field labeled "State:" (but then so does the form which isI > used both for normal and international members - which suggests you can- put- > almost anything in there).I > Associate membership allows you to participate in the hobbyist program.e >c >e >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >e >s > >Jirka   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 05:15:25 GMTr) From: Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk>c, Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro4 Message-ID: <20030521.5152500.3645272411@imagnu.geo>  # Sorry about the html, I screwed up!e Andrew.o  ) Original Message dated 21/05/03, 06:03:38 + Author: Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk>e( Re: Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro:    A You will get another e-mail a few days later that welcomes you to-* Encompass, and has your membership number.  6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  B On 20/05/03, 22:40:19, "Ron Milen" <milenronald@mailbag.net> wrote. regarding Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro:     > Hi,c  D >     When I fill out the form for an associate license I get back a mail? > message with the data I entered in the form but I don't get a 	 username,eG > password, & the equivalent of a DECUS membership number.  Without theaE > number, it won't let me register for a hobbyest license.  What am Io doingj > wrong?   > Ron Milen  > Milen Consulting Servicesi > milenronald@yahoo.comp  : > "David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message' > news:baabep$cl8$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... ; > > In article <CFN377605063994213@news.cup.hp.com>, Wolanda# > <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> writes:tF > > >On 16 May 2003 10:02:08 -0700 daniel@mimer.se (Daniel Gustafsson) wrote: > > >gE > > >>> I believe the US Chapter known as Encompass-US accepts non-USu members E > > >>> for purposes of the hobbyist license. Didn't check into that,o > though...o > > >>>,# > > >>> http://www.encompassus.com/s > > >>>p > > >>G > > >> Yes, that is correct, Encommpass-US accepts non-US citizens, and_ ifA > > >> the only reason is to get a hobbyist license the Associatei option is ap > > >> good alternative. > > >>6 > > >> http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html > > >- > > > D > > >Thanks, this seems to be the way. However, the "free" hobbyists licenseo > thenD > > >costs $135 ($90 for US citizens), which is not that bad for me, but forkC > > >students or other kind of let-me-try users it's still too mucht when
 > compared > > >to Linux or BSD.. > > >  > >eF > > I think you are looking at the wrong part of the page. The $135 is for anB > > international individual membership ie a full member but based	 overseas.a > >iF > > What you want is at the bottom of the page an associate membership which, > is > > "complimentary" ie free.G > > I believe that this is available to non-US citizens even though thes form > doesF > > have a mandatory field labeled "State:" (but then so does the form whicho > isG > > used both for normal and international members - which suggests you- can- > put- > > almost anything in there).B > > Associate membership allows you to participate in the hobbyist program. > >: > >n > >  > > David Webb > > VMS and Unix team leader > > CCSS > > Middlesex University > >A > >o
 > > >Jirka   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 05:03:38 GMT ) From: Andrew Balaam <abalaam@yahoo.co.uk>n, Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro4 Message-ID: <20030521.5033800.3576344799@imagnu.geo>  $ --------------=_4D48005C10C008AA3718) Content-Description: filename="text1.txt"_, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableA  D You will get another e-mail a few days later that welcomes you to=20* Encompass, and has your membership number.  6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  E On 20/05/03, 22:40:19, "Ron Milen" <milenronald@mailbag.net> wrote=20s. regarding Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro:     > Hi,3  I >     When I fill out the form for an associate license I get back a mai=  ltI > message with the data I entered in the form but I don't get a username=n ,tG > password, & the equivalent of a DECUS membership number.  Without thetI > number, it won't let me register for a hobbyest license.  What am I do=c ingy > wrong?   > Ron Milenf > Milen Consulting Serviceso > milenronald@yahoo.come  : > "David Webb" <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message' > news:baabep$cl8$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...T; > > In article <CFN377605063994213@news.cup.hp.com>, WolandR# > <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> writes: I > > >On 16 May 2003 10:02:08 -0700 daniel@mimer.se (Daniel Gustafsson) w=0 rote:5 > > >iI > > >>> I believe the US Chapter known as Encompass-US accepts non-US me=L mbersFE > > >>> for purposes of the hobbyist license. Didn't check into that,0 > though...F > > >>>L# > > >>> http://www.encompassus.com/C > > >>>$ > > >>I > > >> Yes, that is correct, Encommpass-US accepts non-US citizens, and =  ifI > > >> the only reason is to get a hobbyist license the Associate option=o  is ae > > >> good alternative. > > >>6 > > >> http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html > > >y > > >eI > > >Thanks, this seems to be the way. However, the "free" hobbyists lic=  ense > thenI > > >costs $135 ($90 for US citizens), which is not that bad for me, but=h  forI > > >students or other kind of let-me-try users it's still too much when=r  
 > compared > > >to Linux or BSD.. > > >i > >hI > > I think you are looking at the wrong part of the page. The $135 is f=  or antI > > international individual membership ie a full member but based overs=o eas. > >hI > > What you want is at the bottom of the page an associate membership w=h hich > is > > "complimentary" ie free.I > > I believe that this is available to non-US citizens even though the =t form > doesI > > have a mandatory field labeled "State:" (but then so does the form w=t hich > isI > > used both for normal and international members - which suggests you =p can  > puta > > almost anything in there).I > > Associate membership allows you to participate in the hobbyist progr=  am.h > >i > >n > >l > > David Webb > > VMS and Unix team leader > > CCSS > > Middlesex University > >r > >v
 > > >Jirka$ --------------=_4D48005C10C008AA3718* Content-Description: filename="text1.html" Content-Type: text/html + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablec  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">r <HTML> <HEAD>I 	<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"CONTENT-TYPE" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8== 859-1">=3 	<TITLE>Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro</TITLE>== 	<META NAME=3D"GENERATOR" CONTENT=3D"StarOffice/5.2 (Linux)"> 5 	<META NAME=3D"CREATED" CONTENT=3D"20030521;6020500"> 5 	<META NAME=3D"CHANGEDBY" CONTENT=3D"Geoffrey Pratt">N5 	<META NAME=3D"CHANGED" CONTENT=3D"20030521;6033600">= </HEAD>= <BODY>F <PRE>You will get another e-mail a few days later that welcomes you to* Encompass, and has your membership number.  I &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=SI  Original Message &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&l=o t;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;  I On 20/05/03, 22:40:19, &quot;Ron Milen&quot; &lt;milenronald@mailbag.net=i
 &gt; wrote. regarding Re: Hobbyist kit vs Standard distro:     &gt; Hi,  G &gt;     When I fill out the form for an associate license I get back a  mailB &gt; message with the data I entered in the form but I don't get a	 username,eI &gt; password, &amp; the equivalent of a DECUS membership number.  Witho=i ut theI &gt; number, it won't let me register for a hobbyest license.  What am I=w   doing  &gt; wrong?t   &gt; Ron Milen &gt; Milen Consulting Services &gt; milenronald@yahoo.com  I &gt; &quot;David Webb&quot; &lt;david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk&gt; wrote in me=a ssage,I &gt; <A HREF=3D"news:baabep$cl8$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk">news:baabep$cl8$1@aq=u uila.mdx.ac.uk</A>... G &gt; &gt; In article &lt;CFN377605063994213@news.cup.hp.com&gt;, Woland , &gt; &lt;weiland@no.spam.post.cz&gt; writes:I &gt; &gt; &gt;On 16 May 2003 10:02:08 -0700 daniel@mimer.se (Daniel Gust=  afsson)t wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt;I &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I believe the US Chapter known as Encompass-US ac=; cepts non-US members I &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; for purposes of the hobbyist license. Didn't chec=. k into that, &gt; though... &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;I &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <A HREF=3D"http://www.encompassus.com/">http://ww=  w.encompassus.com/</A> &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;I &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Yes, that is correct, Encommpass-US accepts non-US ci=A tizens, and  ifI &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; the only reason is to get a hobbyist license the Asso=, ciatet option is aw$ &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; good alternative. &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;I &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <A HREF=3D"http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join=E: .html">http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html</A> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;I &gt; &gt; &gt;Thanks, this seems to be the way. However, the &quot;free&=- quot; hobbyists- licensee	 &gt; thenaI &gt; &gt; &gt;costs $135 ($90 for US citizens), which is not that bad fo=: r me,C but for I &gt; &gt; &gt;students or other kind of let-me-try users it's still too =J much when
 &gt; compareds &gt; &gt; &gt;to Linux or BSD..3 &gt; &gt; &gt;	 &gt; &gt;.I &gt; &gt; I think you are looking at the wrong part of the page. The $13=t 5 is for anI &gt; &gt; international individual membership ie a full member but based=k  	 overseas. 	 &gt; &gt;sI &gt; &gt; What you want is at the bottom of the page an associate member=  ship which  &gt; is , &gt; &gt; &quot;complimentary&quot; ie free.I &gt; &gt; I believe that this is available to non-US citizens even thoug=i h thee form	 &gt; doesdI &gt; &gt; have a mandatory field labeled &quot;State:&quot; (but then so=a  does the form whichM &gt; ismI &gt; &gt; used both for normal and international members - which suggest=o s yout can  &gt; put$ &gt; &gt; almost anything in there).I &gt; &gt; Associate membership allows you to participate in the hobbyist=h   program.	 &gt; &gt;a	 &gt; &gt;t	 &gt; &gt;o &gt; &gt; David Webb" &gt; &gt; VMS and Unix team leader &gt; &gt; CCSS &gt; &gt; Middlesex University	 &gt; &gt;o	 &gt; &gt;i &gt; &gt; &gt;Jirka</PRE>a </BODY>q </HTML>u& --------------=_4D48005C10C008AA3718--   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:54:46 GMTn  From: CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net>/ Subject: HP tops estimates, plans more job cutsU* Message-ID: <3ECAB238.9010207@prodigy.net>  7 http://news.com.com/2100-1014_3-1008181.html?tag=fd_tope  F "In addition to the remaining merger-related cuts, HP said it trimmed C 2,300 additional jobs last quarter and plans to chop 3,500 more by t= October--including 1,200 in its high-end computing business."a  % How many folks in the VMS group?  ;-)y   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:03:33 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a5 Subject: Just a thought about ISV support of IA64/VMSoJ Message-ID: <FKwya.214188$w7k.134629@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  D I was reading the recent announcement from BEA about the port of the* former DECmessageQ product to IA-64/VMS at6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/beamessageq.html today.  D In part it it said, "As a result of important customer feedback thatC has brought about a concerted effort to foster closer ties with its-> enormous installed base, BEA has recently committed to porting/ MessageQ to OpenVMS on Itanium-based systems."R  & And then there was a link to this pageC http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/bea/messageq/survey.html on the?F OpenVMS home page http://h71000.www7.hp.com/, whereon BEA is surveying# VMS customers about MessageQ needs.s  @ It's really nice that BEA is surveying their customers, and thatC they've decided to port MessageQ to IA64/VMS, but all that shows is E just how marginal VMS has become. It's true that there are some othertC competing message queue technologies available for VMS - IBM MQ andrC JMQ, but in the good old days when VMS was marketed and sold, ports D like this would have been practically automatic, without any need toC survey customers and make announcements that the port would occur -r  they simply would have happened.  F But today each such port is treated as an event to be cherished simplyE because there are so few of them. It's placing the spin of "the glassuE is half full" on the announcement because the alternative view is toocF painfully close to the truth. With decent advertising and marketing ofB VMS, the ISV portfolio would be an overflowing horn of plenty. ButB since there isn't advertising and marketing done to expand the VMSE market, there will be fewer and fewer of the "it's the apps that sell  VMS" according to HP.    Why is that HP?u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:37:22 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>=3 Subject: Re: Logicals Lost When Process Is Detachedt' Message-ID: <3ECAE662.2869D045@fsi.net>i   Frank Mattison wrote:= > [ > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in message news:<E6FQ4UNp3drl@eisner.encompasserve.org>...cv > > In article <6449213e.0305151044.78ee9d4f@posting.google.com>, fmattison@ssd5.nrl.navy.mil (Frank Mattison) writes:J > > > Switching from RUN image to RUN/DETACHED image, the detached process2 > > > is no longer able to reference the logicals. > >$ > > Which logicals?o > > D > > Yes, RUN/DETACHED will not have access to /PROCESS logical namesI > > associated with the creating process.  And it will not have access tooF > > /JOB logical names associated with the creating process.  It will,E > > however, have access to /GROUP logical names in its own UIC groupt! > > and to /SYSTEM logical names.e > >fI > > And the RUN/DETACHED process will also not run through the systemwide F > > login command procedure (SYLOGIN.COM) or through the user specificB > > login command procedure (LOGIN.COM).  And it won't pick up theI > > DCL default logical names (SYS$LOGIN, SYS$LOGIN_DEVICE, SYS$SCRATCH).yE > > And the SYS$INPUT, SYS$OUTPUT and SYS$ERROR logical names present>K > > in the detached process will be ordinary logical names and not pointersy1 > > to pre-opened process permanent files (PPFs).f > >e, > > The easiest way to deal with this is to: > >k8 > > $ RUN /DETACH [/AUTHORIZE] SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE -2 > >   /INPUT=your-choice-of-DCL-command-file.COM -) > >   /OUTPUT=your-choice-of-log-file.LOGeG > >   ! And don't bother to specify /ERROR= since the /OUTPUT file willcL > >   ! be used for that.  The /ERROR= parameter can be used by LOGINOUT.EXEG > >   ! for undocumented black magic that you don't need to know about.u > >II > > With /AUTHORIZE, the detached process will automatically log in usingrH > > the user name of the submitter.  The UIC, and process quotas will beG > > taken from the UAF.  The systemwide login procedure will be run andtM > > the user specific login procedure will be run.  Then the detached processeH > > will begin executing DCL commands taken from the input file you haveJ > > specified.  Those commands may include a RUN command for your program.D > > And they may include $ DEFINE or $ ASSIGN commands to create any > > needed logical names.e > >sF > > Without /AUTHORIZE, the detached process will not look at the UAF.D > > It will run under the username and account of the submitter.  ByC > > default it will run under the submitter's UIC.  But that can be-C > > overridden with the /UIC qualifier.  Process quotas will not be E > > taken from the UAF.  They can be specified on the command line ormE > > defaulted.  The user specific login command procedure is not run.nB > > I'm pretty sure the systemwide procedure is run.  Otherwise, aE > > /NOAUTHORIZE detached process behaves just like a /AUTHORIZE one.t > >  > >       John Briggsp >  > John,cG > Thank you very much!  I like your suggestion, but have been unable to-F > make it work.  There seems to be a problem with invoking the commandD > file.  In an effort to solve it, I have reduced the attempt to the > simplest possible process.6 > This is my situation.  Let me refer to my own names: > > > RUN /DETACHED SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE /INPUT=MY_DCL_FILE.COM > D > The process I want to run detached is in file TEST_DETACH.EXE.  ItE > does nothing more than create a file.  It responds correctly to RUN  > /DETACHED TEST_DETACH. > & > In the above command MY_DCL_FILE is: > $ RUN TEST_DETACHs > $ EXIT > C > When I invoke it this way, @MY_DCL_FILE, the response is correct.e > : > RUN /DETACHED SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT /INPUT=MY_DCL_FILE.COM > B > results in "identification of created process is 2020024E".  ButC > TEST_DETACH is not called.  The file it would have created is not  > there! > H > If MY_DCL_FILE.COM is replaced with a non-existant file, XYZ.com,  the@ > same message appears.  There is no error message refering to a > non-existant file. > H > Preceeding MY_DCL_FILE.COM with the complete path makes no difference. >  > Do you have a suggestion?h  > Where is the output going? (Hint: You forgot to specify. Add a  /OUTPUT=filespec and try again.)   --   David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/X   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 17:11:54 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)X Subject: Micro$oft 2003 Server/XP have huge firewall holes ... says buy another product!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305201611.7b33dfe0@posting.google.com>   5 don't worry Andrew ... at this rate you don't have tor5 worry about losing to windoze/linux in the CERT race!o5 yes, windoze/unix/linux saves you a ton of money overy* a VMS solution ... in your wildest dreams!  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9571   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:24:15 +0200h+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>s) Subject: Re: need help with VAX 4000-100Ah5 Message-ID: <badvd3$s4rp9$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>%  F <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de---remove CLOTHES to reply> schreef in& bericht news:bacruk$uv9$1@online.de...F > > The first one you mention, the big one is indeed a SCSI connector. >  > Right. >e > > ThehL > > male "three row of pins" connector  may be a DSW42 connector. The female! > > version does not ring a bell.b >bC > What is DSW42?  Other posters have indicated this might be a QBUSs > connector.  L A DSW42 is a programmable interface and was once supported by DECnet for WAN	 purposes. 9 But once I saw the picture of the box I knew I was wrong.a  K > > Phillip, broad and narrow with pins like a very large DB25 connector orf  > > like a Centronics connector? > F > No, not like a large DB25 connector (this would be QBUS I guess) butI > rather thin with small pins.  Other posters have indicated that this isyC > a non-standard SCSI connector, though the SCSI itself is standardy	 > SCSI 1.e >o OK   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:38:41 -0700 (PDT)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: New VMS logo ?p> Message-ID: <20030520213841.328.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>  A What about a Shark Logo like The Inquirer/Thundercat logo ! :-)))e6 Good to make buttons ! Should be blue like HP color !  Anyone inspired to draw ? ;-)    Regardst  
 Fabio Cardoso.; --- "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:l7 > NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.i: > No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.: > -------------------------------------------------------- > 6 > On Sun, 18 May 2003, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote: >  > <snip> >  > >Or should we add a shark ?? >  > My vote goes to the shark. b > M > I'd _really_ like to see HP license the Hajime shark for use as a VMS logo.0B > After all, there are a few people have already appropriated it.  > C > http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ovms_art/large/Iovmsmetalshark.gifo >  > http://hack-a.vmsbox.cjb.net >  >  > Doc. > -- wM > OpenVMS.  Eight out of ten hackers                   https://vmsbox.cjb.net M >           prefer *other* operating systems.        http://althacker.cjb.neto >      =====' ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.coma   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:44:16 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: New VMS logo ?C@ Message-ID: <20030520214416.80173.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>   Ooops !   $ The Register/Thundercat logo ! :-)))   Mistake from me !    Regardsn   FC c3 --- Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:oC > What about a Shark Logo like The Inquirer/Thundercat logo ! :-)))r8 > Good to make buttons ! Should be blue like HP color !  > Anyone inspired to draw ? ;-)f > 	 > Regardsm >  > Fabio CardosoA= > --- "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:(9 > > NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.r< > > No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.< > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > 8 > > On Sun, 18 May 2003, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote: > > 
 > > <snip> > >   > > >Or should we add a shark ?? > >  > > My vote goes to the shark.   > > O > > I'd _really_ like to see HP license the Hajime shark for use as a VMS logo.eD > > After all, there are a few people have already appropriated it.  > > E > > http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ovms_art/large/Iovmsmetalshark.gifa > >   > > http://hack-a.vmsbox.cjb.net > >  > >  > > Doc. > > --  O > > OpenVMS.  Eight out of ten hackers                   https://vmsbox.cjb.netmO > >           prefer *other* operating systems.        http://althacker.cjb.net- > >  >  >  > =====, > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > $ > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!?0 > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com      =====A ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilw fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.comy   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:32:55 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>rI Subject: Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down!r1 Message-ID: <Xhwya.1164$A81.185@news.cpqcorp.net>l  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KW4I7XOSPOAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...sK > > I write VMS OS code, and on my desktop is a PC and a VMS "workstation".hF > > I can do my work (if crippled) without the workstation, I can't doI > > without the PC. Neither Linux or any flavor of UNIX can do the thingsu > > that I rely on the PC to dor >a* > Out of curiosity, what are those things? >e  K Seamlessly being able to read mail (and all variety of attachments), access G all web content - including IE only sites, and download *any* format of I *anything* to start with.  Then it's on to applications that simply don't-I exist *or* are different than the Windows applications used by *everyone*uK else.  My company, like thousands of others, simply has standardized on thee, desktop set of Windows tools for what we do.  J Yes, we all still use our own OS for many things, but the tool that allowsI an international company to work in a distributed way is... a Windows PC.5  4 > > Love it, hate it - you *have* to accept Windows. >n* > I'm still managing to get by without it! >0L > > Windows has pretty much wiped out the workstation and low-end space, andF > > is moving up the food chain into Servers. Linux is taking away theK > > lunatic fringe from the UNIX market.  The space is getting crowded into K > > only those customers who need big-iron solutions, with lots of support.P >sH > 10 years ago, Windows was already there, but there were A LOT MORE VMS0 > workstations.  In your opinion, is this due to >  >    a) VMS losing quality >  >    b) Windows gaining quality  >eB >    c) DEC making wrong marketing decisions, in particular makingH >       decisions which caused the educational market to be lost forever >r  J 1) The semiconductor people were a day late, and a dollar short.  VAX fellF off the price/performance curve.  Part of that was RISC redefining theC curve.  That left a multi-year gap where the VAX wasn't interesting0I performance wise compared to say Sun.  Alpha (or nVAX you pick) were both1
 toooooo late.o  L 2) Intel/Microsoft managed to make a brick fly.  MS Windows started out as aJ true peice of crap.  But it was a piece of crap anyone who could afford to; buy a PC could use.  The general desktop was lost long ago.y  L Look at the delta between what you get for $2000 in a PC today with Windows,I and *anything* else - for a desktop system.  You get at least a 2GHz CPU.@I You get Windows and can put pretty much *any* application on it.  You can.F put pretty much *any* hardware on it.  Get UNIX, Linux or VMS and yourL options go down, and your costs go up - and the expertise needed by the user0 is much higher.  It is not an effective desktop.  6 Ten years ago, the delta wasn't a vast as it is today.  L 3) Of course DEC did stupid things.  High on my list was not putting Sun outI of business when they were a startup.  We could have dropped the price of3I the VAXstation so low that it would have set back the RISC space at leasteI 2-4 years - remember at one time *everything* ran on VAXes in that space,oG and *everything* ran on VMS.  That would have given us a lot more time.D  K We could have held onto Dave Cutler, and done a VMS transition to a NEW OS.0  K We could have figured out how to make *our* brick fly - the VAX - just like// Intel figured out how to make their x86 faster.t  G We could have merged with Apple when we had the chance (around the Lisai timeframe).b  3 The list can go on and on.  Hindsight and all that.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:56:52 -0400C( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>I Subject: Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down! , Message-ID: <3ECA9694.9080009@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  H > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message7 > news:01KW4G6I24X2AKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...m >  > ...u >  > G >>What would be an example for a situation where unix is the right toola >>for the job and VMS is not?- >> > M > Many (some would argue most) situations where VMS's additional capabilitiesnI > just aren't required.  Especially the subset of those where file systemsI > performance is important and the developers/users don't want to have tonL > spend inordinate amounts of effort optimizing the platform to correct poor > choices of default behavior.    Q In some parts, this is correct.  For example, if all someone needs to do is some dH word processing, then windoz and word are a fine, simple, and available Q solution.  I've used windoz instead of Unix for this example, but the concept is dL the same.  If you have a Unix based application, ready to run, and it's all Q you're going to do, then any other option would involve more effort, and the job  2 of computers is to reduce effort, not increase it.  Q I cannot stop without mentioning the scalability, robustness, and reliability of oM VMS.  If the application must be developed, I do not think there is a better oG development platform.  More apps and tools would be nice, but the base e@ environment is #1.  Ok, I'm a developer, not a user, I'm biased.  O As for the Unix file system using available memory as a cache, and speeding up yP access, I'd have to comment that if the application needed it's data in memory, A then it should use memory, not depend upon caching of data files.     J > Or situations where some of VMS's unique strengths may be useful but areM > outweighed by other considerations (availability of knowledgeable personnela > being one biggie).    P VMS is easy to learn.  I'm just a dummy, but I still haven't figured out how to Q build a backup of the running system disk in windows that can be used to restore   the system disk.    F > And the fact that several reasonably competent varieties of Unix are0 > available free of charge doesn't hurt, either.    < Big winner!  Hard to top that.  Regardless of anything else.     Dave     -- o4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:07:19 -0400l* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>I Subject: Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down!w2 Message-ID: <2wKdnf0Gs-WAOlejXTWcqw@metrocast.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3ECA9694.9080009@tsoft-inc.com...   ...t  D > As for the Unix file system using available memory as a cache, and speeding up I > access, I'd have to comment that if the application needed it's data in  memory, C > then it should use memory, not depend upon caching of data files.n  J Shhhh!  You're likely to upset the people who have been busting their gutsK trying to get XFC up and running:  you may think they've wasted their time,a but I don't.   >  >rL > > Or situations where some of VMS's unique strengths may be useful but areE > > outweighed by other considerations (availability of knowledgeable 	 personnelp > > being one biggie). >  >i > VMS is easy to learn.s  J So is Esperanto.  But it's still kind of tough to dig up a fluent speaker,3 since the general demand for them just isn't there.o   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 16:39:57 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)I Subject: Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down!e= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305201539.36a0e53e@posting.google.com>   | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KW4I7XOSPOAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>... > I > 10 years ago, Windows was already there, but there were A LOT MORE VMS t0 > workstations.  In your opinion, is this due to >  >    a) VMS losing quality >  >    b) Windows gaining qualityl > C >    c) DEC making wrong marketing decisions, in particular making tH >       decisions which caused the educational market to be lost forever   I'll take "c" ...    ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 16:49:37 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)I Subject: Re: Official gov't security cert tally: OpenVMS wins hands down!n= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305201549.2c6f8447@posting.google.com>r  { Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.55L-032.0305201058180.1819@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>...a > L > My point is, to summarize, that the rabid fear and hatred of unix one seesK > in the vms community is pretty irrational. There is no 'conflict' between0N > unix and vms. Maybe 15 years ago, some people might want bsd and some peopleF > might want vms, installed on the same vax, but these days.. there isQ > no conflict. The attitude of that conflict is really nonsensical. Use the right>N > tool for the job. The one thing vms folks and unix folks _should_ be able toP > agree on is that the sludge from MS is almost certainly _never_ the right tool > for _any_ job. :-) >  > just my .02,	 > isildurt  > you want to know why I hate unix/linux ... because it sucks!!!; it has a convuluted command base, no security, it can't and > will never cluster as well as VMS, it's security model stinks,> it's not as reliable as VMS, it can't run real time as well as; VMS, it is never right for any job because it, like windoze > and linux is a poor mans vms wannabe ... it frankly is a piece= of garbage!  There can never be any job that unix should evern be used over VMS ... ANY!l   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 15:53:33 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)& Subject: Re: OpenVMS and TomCat 4.1.243 Message-ID: <sLIGNB6pV0sg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <3ec9eb9e$0$41870$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>, Harald Pollak <H.Pollak@pke.at> writes:tC > Does anyone have a startup script like startup.sh or shutdown.sh   > ( on unix ) for OpenVMS?B > My main problem is the setting of the symbols and the java call  > with the Params. >  > Thanks Harry  ? If you are using the Compaq (HP) supplied Tomcat then it should-: have some command procedures to start and stop it.  In theA sys$startup: directory you should find apache$jakarta_startup.com  and apache$shutdown.come  < For more information about the Compaq (HP) java server check out...  D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_java.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:14:22 +0200t+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>iY Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium -  FIRST Itanium(t>5 Message-ID: <baduqi$roo0l$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>n  3 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> schreef in berichte/ news:badios$r8ivo$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de...d, > On 20-May-2003 15:04, Sue Skonetski wrote: >o > > What a great OpenVMS Pearl,  > >aH > > Once again the OpenVMS Team is showing the world how real clustering5 >                                           ^^^^^^^^^b > > is done. > >h	 > > [...]  >bI > I suppose that's only a very limited part of "the world" -- just people H > reading this very specific newsgroup (i.e., "preaching to the choir"). >p6 > When will the VAX-Itanium-Cluster be up and running? >a	 > Michaelb >eD There is an Alpha Itanium cluster up and running at DECUS Amsterdam.H Actually if that works then adding a VAX must not be that difficult. One8 booth even brought a 3100-80 so they could go and try...   Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 17:17:12 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium -  FIRST Itanium(tw= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305201617.1b9a840f@posting.google.com>c  v susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in message news:<857e9e41.0305200504.3ff37045@posting.google.com>... > What a great OpenVMS Pearl,t > F > Once again the OpenVMS Team is showing the world how real clustering
 > is done. >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue'   and what world would that be?s   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 17:24:46 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium -  FIRST Itanium(t = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0305201624.1b33e932@posting.google.com>g  v susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in message news:<857e9e41.0305200504.3ff37045@posting.google.com>... > What a great OpenVMS Pearl,  > F > Once again the OpenVMS Team is showing the world how real clustering
 > is done. >  > Warm Regards,i > Sue'  7 and when will we see this marvelous feat advertised on  7 planet earth?  Or is Scott and Peter and the boys goinge7 to try to tell us how wonderful that garbage unix/linuxt+ or windoze (minus a firewall right now) is?-4 People are looking for a secure, stable, alternative5 right now to all this useless garbage, and HP has it, 5 but they don't even let anyone know ... it's time for 4 the shareholders to revolt and weed out all the paid4 off cronies (aka Palmer, Capellas) in HP (Blackmore,6 Stallard, Carly?) and fire their butts and get someone6 in there who knows what the heck they are doing and is7 not paid off by the industry to make the biggest amount4 of sales in OS history!-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:12:58 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>nY Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium -  FIRST Itanium(t & Message-ID: <3ECAEEBA.EC5984E@fsi.net>   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > What a great OpenVMS Pearl,g > F > Once again the OpenVMS Team is showing the world how real clustering
 > is done.  2= > 15-MAY-2003 20:27:13 FIRST Itanium(tm) VMS CLUSTER NODE!!!!    [snip]  B Does anyone know who I could e-mail about this to help ensure thatE InfoWorld picks up on it? Computerworld? ...ZD? ...Cnet? ...any othera mainstream media outlet?  E I'll look back thru my InfoWorld updates tomorrow eve - it's too latenE tonight - but, if anyone knows anything at all that would be helpful,n3 please pass it along: post it, e-mail it, whatever.i  C Face it, y'all - HP's top mgt. is out to lunch permanently. When it D comes to getting and keeping VMS in the mainstream's eye, it's up to& *US* to take the ball and run with it!   If we don't, who will?   --   David J. Dachtera6 dba DJE Systems8 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 17:10:25 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)hY Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium - FIRST Itanium(tmt= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0305201610.3ca6dd62@posting.google.com>   
 Newsgroup,  C I am sorry that some of you (not all for sure) do not seem to enjoy C hearing good news about VMS.  The engineers are busting their buttsbC making this port happen with VMS, they are working hard and doing aaF good job, and the only feedback they get here is marketing complaints.D  Nothing is wrong in saying "great job engineering we knew you couldB do it".  But to take every milestone and keep up with the same oldD thing does not solve anything except make the competition smile with glee.k  E I get a lot of comments that I am preaching to the choir, guess what!oA You are doing the same thing, everyone that I know who reads this > newsgroup thinks that VMS is the best and would like to see itE advertised, be in every speach, in every report and every event.  ButvC if we spent our time on what is wrong we could not do what everyone  said was impossible.   Suef  u "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<FIsya.249611$kYH.228837@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...i3 > "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message 1 > news:badios$r8ivo$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de...p. > > On 20-May-2003 15:04, Sue Skonetski wrote: > > ! > > > What a great OpenVMS Pearl,n > > > ? > > > Once again the OpenVMS Team is showing the world how reala
 >  clustering-3 >                                         ^^^^^^^^^= > > > is done. > > >y > > > [...]  > >tD > > I suppose that's only a very limited part of "the world" -- just	 >  peopleMA > > reading this very specific newsgroup (i.e., "preaching to theN
 > choir"). >  > ? > Indeed. I wonder when (if ever) HP will issue a press releasedC > trumpeting this achievement/promise kept. I know that Sun and IBML$ > would under similar circumstances. > D > But then again, IBM and Sun are interested in selling products and > expanding their market share.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:16:03 GMTe4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium - FIRST Itanium(tm;- Message-ID: <mrAya.51304$rt6.18836@sccrnsc02>l  q In article <857e9e41.0305201610.3ca6dd62@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:; >Newsgroup,a >mD >I am sorry that some of you (not all for sure) do not seem to enjoyD >hearing good news about VMS.  The engineers are busting their buttsD >making this port happen with VMS, they are working hard and doing aG >good job, and the only feedback they get here is marketing complaints.nE > Nothing is wrong in saying "great job engineering we knew you could C >do it".  But to take every milestone and keep up with the same oldwE >thing does not solve anything except make the competition smile witha >glee.   Hi Sue,;  N I realize the good work that the folks do in Nashua (and elsewhere); I've seen! some of it up close and personal!i  O Some folks here are upset because they perceive (truthfully or not) that *they*&M are expected to "carry the water" at their jobsites, and sometimes risk theirs' professional reputations in doing so.     > I know of at least three people working at one of the largest M financial-services organizations in the world, who definitely felt that way; cK they had to fight tooth-and-nail with their own management to allow VMS to fE continue making a significant, mission-critical contribution to that ;O organization, with little or no perceived help from DEC/COMPAQ.  Perhaps HP has"N managed to change that equation; I no longer have access to that organization,9 so I can't say if there has been a change for the better.c  L The competition (IBM/Sun) *did* take advantage of this situation with glee.   N Some of the folks here are asking HP to fight back, to join in the battle thatL DEC/COMPAQ seemed to abandon.  Their argument, as near as I can tell, is notN with Nashua, or anyplace else that VMS Engineering and Support lives, but withO the folks in Houston and Cupertino (did I get the locations correct?), who seemeK to be physically and emotionally disconnected from VMS.  Please, don't feel;I that folks here are against VMS Engineering; most of us *want* to see VMSeL succeed - indeed, many of us *depend* on VMS for our livelihood.  We want to+ continue doing so, as long as is practical.&    <snip> >Sue >S <snip>  A _________________________________________________________________o0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:59:32 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>pY Subject: Re: OpenVMS Pearl  - Another milestone for OpenVMS on Itanium - FIRST Itanium(tmt' Message-ID: <3ECAEB94.A4B77036@fsi.net>t   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Newsgroup, > E > I am sorry that some of you (not all for sure) do not seem to enjoyhE > hearing good news about VMS.  The engineers are busting their buttsnE > making this port happen with VMS, they are working hard and doing aaH > good job, and the only feedback they get here is marketing complaints.F >  Nothing is wrong in saying "great job engineering we knew you couldD > do it".  But to take every milestone and keep up with the same oldF > thing does not solve anything except make the competition smile with > glee.E  6 Yeah - I know. It's one of the ultimates of a paradox.  F We *ALL* (I'll be so bold as to say) want to see OVMS Engr achieve newG heights, even if it IS on Itanic instead of Opteron or (heaven forbid!) G Alpha or even (dare I say it?) IA32 (OH! Heavens to Gimble's, *NO*!!!)..  F We just get *DAMNED* sick and tired of trying make the VMS light shine. forth to the world from under a bushel basket.  9 I've even had "the debate" with my Silver Support TAM...   TAM: VMS is gaining. g DJD: Check the job boards...  C Even the brightest star in the universe will never be seen if it is-% forever shrouded by an opaque nebula.   G > I get a lot of comments that I am preaching to the choir, guess what!hC > You are doing the same thing, everyone that I know who reads this3@ > newsgroup thinks that VMS is the best and would like to see itC > advertised, be in every speach, in every report and every event. p  B Quite right, my dear. Now, if only God himself would appear in the desert to Carly...   > ButdE > if we spent our time on what is wrong we could not do what everyone  > said was impossible.  F Well, I'm sure some were skeptical about OVMS on Itanic. Perhaps a fewG even said, "no way". I figured they'd get it one way or another - neverh
 doubted that.l  H What draws *MANY* more retorts of "impossible" is VMS/32 (i.e., ala VAX)% native on IA32, and now even Opteron.1   Wanna impress *ME*, y'all... ?   -- g David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/Q   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:52:41 -0500s( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)6 Subject: Re: PHP Monitor (was: as2100 inside pictures)1 Message-ID: <03052014524182@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>r  5 > Could you send some instructions for setting it up?a  3 Assumption is that you have installed CSWS and PHP.d  K Create a file called PHP_MONITOR.PHP in the [APACHE.PHP.SCRIPTS] directory.e! Or you can call it what you like.r  ( Then execute the PHP script in your url:  ( http://my.domain.com/php/php_monitor.php         > < > Roland Barmettler <spamsink@crapmail.com> wrote in message9 > news:<20030520144911.016ca55c.spamsink@crapmail.com>...d	 > > Hellot > > = > > Some of you were interested in the PHP monitor interface.gI > > It's quite simple and I don't take any responsibility if it's messingx$ > > something up on your system. ;-) > > 3 > > http://naboo.freestone.net/sysinfo/monitor.phpsi > >  > > Cheers, Roland     John Brandon VMS Systems Administratore Dallas Semiconductor first.last@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkd   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:56:27 GMTe6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: prod install hung - help please!w1 Message-ID: <fwxya.7757$bA5.99885@news.chello.at>e  g In article <badddl$hn4$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: ; >Doing an install of the latest DFU 2.7-a on Alpha VMS 7.3.U8 >It ran rapidly to 90% complete, then hung in LEF state.F >I tried control/C, and it warned me of dire consequences if I didn't 
 >continue. >EF >Anyone know how to unhang it, or diagnose what's wrong, or anything ?	 >Please ?p  G Like I wrote in the other (DFU) thread, I had this once or twice happen I and it was a problem with limited process resources during the ISV phase.g8 But I must admit, it was not during installation of DFU,  J My suggestions is to use AMDS/AVAIL_MAN to look for the problematic quotas0 and to also be able to increase them on the fly.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERc% Network and OpenVMS system specialistM E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:41:08 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>- Subject: Re: prod install hung - help please! 5 Message-ID: <1030520223657.2914B-100000@Ives.egh.com>   ) On Tue, 20 May 2003, Chris Sharman wrote:   < > Doing an install of the latest DFU 2.7-a on Alpha VMS 7.3.9 > It ran rapidly to 90% complete, then hung in LEF state.TG > I tried control/C, and it warned me of dire consequences if I didn't R > continue.  > G > Anyone know how to unhang it, or diagnose what's wrong, or anything ?s
 > Please ? > 	 > Thanks,  > Chrisu  C I've heard of this happening with VMSINSTAL, don't know about PCSI:/  I Trying to get write access to system help library (sys$help:helplib.hlb),r8 and hanging for a long time because someone was in HELP.  @ Maybe the same thing could be happening with PCSI?  (I think the@ "provide_help" callback in VMSINSTAL times out after a while and7 gives a warning message, but maybe PCSI waits forever?)a  A Or similar issues might arise with another system library (Objects library, Macro, etc.)a  ? I don't think DFU would touch any of these except HELP, though.      -- t John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:10:10 +0000 (UTC)s= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)u Subject: RDB v?:  ODBC???.. Message-ID: <baduii$12lq$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  E We have RDB running on our OpenVMS v7.2-1h1 system.  Nobody seems to aC know what release of RDB we've got, but there are manuals for v7.0 i. present so it ought to be at least that level.  B 1) HOW do I determine from the existing installation which release 	it is?d  @ 2) DOES any given release of RDB have ODBC interfaces available,> 	such that I can allow authorized users to access the databaseA 	from an ODBC-compliant program, like MS-Access?  If only certains 	releases, which ones?  I 3) Where on my system should I find documentation for accomplishing this?e  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560 2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's closesC | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't close_: | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]t3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a> aJ <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAILo 	/ \   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:56:20 -0400t+ From: "Ron Milen" <milenronald@mailbag.net>p Subject: Re: RDB v?:  ODBC???i! Message-ID: <3eca9568_3@newsfeed>t  J "j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818" <jlw@psulias.psu.edu> wrote in message( news:baduii$12lq$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu...F > We have RDB running on our OpenVMS v7.2-1h1 system.  Nobody seems toD > know what release of RDB we've got, but there are manuals for v7.00 > present so it ought to be at least that level. >dD > 1) HOW do I determine from the existing installation which release > it is? >r  8 Use the command $RMU/SHOW VERSION database_root_filename  B > 2) DOES any given release of RDB have ODBC interfaces available,? > such that I can allow authorized users to access the databaseeB > from an ODBC-compliant program, like MS-Access?  If only certain > releases, which ones?1 >0? Yes, here's the documentation from Oracle which can be found atn@ http://otn.oracle.com/products/rdb/htdocs/rdb_odbc/content.html.  )       Oracle ODBC Driver for Rdb v3.0.2.6H  J       The Oracle ODBC Driver for Rdb enables Microsoft[R] Windows, WindowsF 95[R], Windows NT[R] and Windows XP[R] applications that implement theI Microsoft Open Database Connectivity (ODBC) API to read from and write torB Oracle Rdb databases and database accessible through the Oracle DB Integrator family of gateways.    I       The Oracle ODBC Driver for Rdb distribution kit includes all of thepI database client software required to allow an ODBC-enabled application to H access Oracle Rdb. The kit consists of Dynamic Link Libraries, a WindowsJ help file, a copy of the license and this product description. In additionE to the ODBC-enabled application and the Oracle ODBC Driver for Rdb, a , network transport is required on the client.  D       This product is installed by the Oracle Universal Installer, aJ completely different technology from that used by previous releases of the Oracle ODBC Driver for RDB.-  E       To assist those customers who do not already have the UniversalfI Installer, this kit is being made available in two forms, one without the2L installer included (about 1 MB in size) and one with the installer (about 12@ MB in size). Both kits are distributed on the web in the form of self-extracting ZIP archives.e  4       Click here to download the Oracle Rdb ODBC kit      K > 3) Where on my system should I find documentation for accomplishing this?w >s) Oracle RDB documentation can be found at: 5  http://otn.oracle.com/docs/products/rdb/content.html-  
 Good Luck!	 Ron Milen- Milen Consulting Services    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:09:07 -0400 & From: "JustMe" <mc.moore@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: RDB v?:  ODBC??? 9 Message-ID: <Zrzya.5288$c41.408879@news20.bellglobal.com>u  ? Might want to try the procedure $@sys$library:RDB$SHOVER first.y  H Depending on version, it might be called DECRDB$SHOVER.com (old) or even RDBVMS_SHOVER.com (older)p  < There is also an SQL$SHOVER.com procedure for that component   CM  6 "Ron Milen" <milenronald@mailbag.net> wrote in message news:3eca9568_3@newsfeed...o  J "j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818" <jlw@psulias.psu.edu> wrote in message( news:baduii$12lq$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu...F > We have RDB running on our OpenVMS v7.2-1h1 system.  Nobody seems toD > know what release of RDB we've got, but there are manuals for v7.00 > present so it ought to be at least that level. >iD > 1) HOW do I determine from the existing installation which release > it is? >,  8 Use the command $RMU/SHOW VERSION database_root_filename  B > 2) DOES any given release of RDB have ODBC interfaces available,? > such that I can allow authorized users to access the databasehB > from an ODBC-compliant program, like MS-Access?  If only certain > releases, which ones?s >f? Yes, here's the documentation from Oracle which can be found atT@ http://otn.oracle.com/products/rdb/htdocs/rdb_odbc/content.html.  )       Oracle ODBC Driver for Rdb v3.0.2.6e  J       The Oracle ODBC Driver for Rdb enables Microsoft[R] Windows, WindowsF 95[R], Windows NT[R] and Windows XP[R] applications that implement theI Microsoft Open Database Connectivity (ODBC) API to read from and write to B Oracle Rdb databases and database accessible through the Oracle DB Integrator family of gateways.    I       The Oracle ODBC Driver for Rdb distribution kit includes all of thedI database client software required to allow an ODBC-enabled application torH access Oracle Rdb. The kit consists of Dynamic Link Libraries, a WindowsJ help file, a copy of the license and this product description. In additionE to the ODBC-enabled application and the Oracle ODBC Driver for Rdb, a , network transport is required on the client.  D       This product is installed by the Oracle Universal Installer, aJ completely different technology from that used by previous releases of the Oracle ODBC Driver for RDB..  E       To assist those customers who do not already have the UniversaloI Installer, this kit is being made available in two forms, one without theaL installer included (about 1 MB in size) and one with the installer (about 12@ MB in size). Both kits are distributed on the web in the form of self-extracting ZIP archives.a  4       Click here to download the Oracle Rdb ODBC kit      K > 3) Where on my system should I find documentation for accomplishing this?n >@) Oracle RDB documentation can be found at: 5  http://otn.oracle.com/docs/products/rdb/content.html   
 Good Luck!	 Ron Milenr Milen Consulting Servicesa   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 01:56:35 GMT31 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>m Subject: Re: RDB v?:  ODBC???:2 Message-ID: <3ECADB0F.C5475C70@firstdbasource.com>  
 JustMe wrote:e > A > Might want to try the procedure $@sys$library:RDB$SHOVER first.E > J > Depending on version, it might be called DECRDB$SHOVER.com (old) or even > RDBVMS_SHOVER.com (older)  > > > There is also an SQL$SHOVER.com procedure for that component >  > CM <snip>    or simply:c $RMU/show versione  or    $MC SQL$ SQL> sho version   -- C Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163t7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comn   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 12:20:39 -07002 From: fmattison@ssd5.nrl.navy.mil (Frank Mattison) Subject: Re: RUN /DETACHED= Message-ID: <6449213e.0305201120.284de926@posting.google.com>t  w fmattison@ssd5.nrl.navy.mil (Frank Mattison) wrote in message news:<6449213e.0305200448.57249c06@posting.google.com>...  > Can Someone Explain?C > I eventually want to RUN /DETACHED and input arguments, so I haven= > chosen the approach cited many times in responses to posts:  > : > RUN /DETACHED SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT /INPUT=MY_DCL_FILE.com > F > Repeated failures have resulted in attemps to make the simplest caseF > work.  In this reduced case the process I want to run detached is inE > file Test_Detach.exe.  It does nothing more than create a file.  Itu2 > responds correctly to RUN /DETACHED Test_Detach. > * > In the above command MY_DCL_FILE.com is: > $ RUN TEST_DETACHe > $ EXIT > * > The response to @MY_DCL_FILE is correct. > : > RUN /DETACHED SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT /INPUT=MY_DCL_FILE.com > B > results in "identification of created process is 2020024E".  ButC > Test_Detach is not called.  The file it would have created is notc > there. > H > If MY_DCL_FILE.com is replaced with a non-existant file, XYZ.com,  the@ > same message appears.  There is no error message refering to aF > non-existant file.  The problem appears to be MY_DCL_FILE.com is not > being run.H > Preceeding MY_DCL_FILE.com with the complete path makes no difference. > 5 > Would someone please tell me what I am doing wrong.i > 	 > Thanks,s > FrankA  @ THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO RESPONDED.  SPECIFYING AN OUTPUT FILE DID; INDEED MAKE IT WORK!  YOU GUYS MAKE GOOGLE WORK "TERRIFIC"!a   FRANK MATTISON   ------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2003 13:46:27 -0700& From: chessmaster1010@hotmail.com (JG)& Subject: SHOW PROCESS bug on VMS 7.2-2= Message-ID: <dd3f0cb7.0305201246.149a0724@posting.google.com>n  ? When I SHOW PROCESS/ID=xxxxxxxx from a VMS V7.2-2 Alpha, if the 6 process resides on a V6.2-1H3 Alpha or V6.2 Vax I get:  F %SYSTEM-F-INCOMPAT, feature incompatible with previous system version.  E This does not happen using SHOW PROCESS on a 7.2-1 node, or when usedeE for a process on a 7.2-1 node.  SHOW PROCESS also works fine from 6.2e1 nodes for processes on any version up thru 7.2-2..  A The error occurs with the original 7.2-2 version SHOW.EXE (linkediB 5-AUG-2001) and with the SHOW.EXE from VMS722_UPDATE-V0100 (linkedA 18-SEP-2001).  It does not occur when running a V7.2-1 version ofcC SHOW.EXE on the V7.2-2 node, but I don't want to have to do that ofi course.n  F I see a note in the .README file for the V7.3 CLIUTL patch about a fixC for this error when SHOW PROCESS is used for any VAX process in thenF cluster.   But I can find nothing about this error in any of the 7.2-2 patch .READMEs.   E I was in the middle of upgrading the Alphas to V7.2-2 (only because I D was told that V7.2-1 is not longer supported) when I discovered this. problem.  HELP, I don't have software support.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 05:28:13 GMT,/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu><! Subject: Re: SWING & remote nodesO( Message-ID: <3ECB0E70.8050906@uiowa.edu>   John Brandon wrote:sG > I was wondering if SWING could be modified to access files using FTP?p > O > For exampe, using SWING_REMOTE would prompt for node, username, password, andVL > then proceed to display files from the remote server and allow the user to' > navigate those files and directories.g > 	 > Aynone?   ? 	Has CSwing even been fully fixed for OpenVMS v7.3-1?  I have atJ partially functional copy.  It seems to work for most of the commands thatI I tend to use, except when I try to walk a directory tree and change filedG permissions.  I also know from reports of others that this version doeso# not support ODS-5 disks yet either.o   Rick --  J Richard L. Dyson                                      rick-dyson@uiowa.eduK   _   _  _____                      http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/rJ | | | ||_   _|  Senior Systems Analyst   --   INFORMM-Cerner Systems Group< | | | |  | |    The University of Iowa Hospitals and ClinicsJ | \_/ | _| |_   Information Systems Dept. BT1000 GH   Office: 319/384-7016K   \___/ |_____|  Iowa City, IA 52242-1052                 FAX: 319/384-7020uE                  (Consulting to the Physics and Astronomy Department)t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:39:13 GMTp# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t: Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status reportI Message-ID: <lDuya.213756$w7k.78882@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KW4IW2A18YAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...eE > > Just following up at about 6 weeks....still no response from HP -i otherd, > > than from Sue and carly's autoresponder. >s+ > Remind us of what you're reminding us of.n    A See the original post in this thread - re: when will we see a VMSoE advertising/marketing campaign, or even just some positive mention of . VMS in the same ads as other HP o/s offerings.  C "I just wanted to let everyone here know that I will be keeping youd allnE informed on a weekly basis, or sooner, of any responses received from / carly and her minions, or Marcello, or Gorham."o  ? 6 weeks later ...still just Sue's question/response and carly'si autoresponder response.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:26:05 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>: Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report) Message-ID: <3ECA733A.537605FC@istop.com>m   John Smith wrote:rC > Just following up at about 6 weeks....still no response from HP -  > other than% > from Sue and carly's autoresponder.   L Last week, I write an email to Mr Blackmore about the lack of VMS mention inL the adaptive enterprise presentation. I got a vanilla response the same day.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:31:01 -050001 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report' Message-ID: <3ECAE4E5.2BB696C5@fsi.net>i   John Smith wrote:d > F > > I just wanted to let everyone here know that I will be keeping you > all D > > informed on a weekly basis, or sooner, of any responses received > from2 > > carly and her minions, or Marcello, or Gorham. > C > Just following up at about 6 weeks....still no response from HP -t > other than% > from Sue and carly's autoresponder.s  - You were expecting, maybe, Huckleberry Hound?o   -- i David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 21:31:53 -0500i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-: Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report' Message-ID: <3ECAE519.FBFC5395@fsi.net>c   JF Mezei wrote:c >  > John Smith wrote:aE > > Just following up at about 6 weeks....still no response from HP -m > > other than' > > from Sue and carly's autoresponder.  > N > Last week, I write an email to Mr Blackmore about the lack of VMS mention inN > the adaptive enterprise presentation. I got a vanilla response the same day.  + I'd prefer a Root Beer float myself, but...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:49:07 -0400c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>: Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report) Message-ID: <3ECAE919.25AD972E@istop.com>   C Ok, some far fetched ideas (which should come to no surprise here).3  H Years ago, many IBM execs bought IBM's PC manufacturing plant and formed$ Celestica (if I remember correctly).  E *IF/when* HP gives up on VMS, could the VMS engineers and some of thetK management who are loyal to VMS buy VMS and form "SharkVMS INC." (or plc ormF corp) and handle VMS the same way Mentec handled the PDP-11 products ?  G I realise that such a company would initially lose on some of the largehJ "mission critical" shops who may not want to do business with such a smallN outfit, but given enough time, couldn' that be rebuilt ?  (or simply outsource the support to HP or IBM.   J Imagine SharkVMS Inc. without any restrictions on marketing, able to blastH Microsoft without any limits, and able to ridicule clustering from other	 vendors ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 04:36:53 GMT 0 From: HARANGOZO CSABA   <spameater@spam.invalid>: Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report6 Message-ID: <FnDya.113$4n.120001@nasal.pacific.net.au>  + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:vE > Ok, some far fetched ideas (which should come to no surprise here).s > J > Years ago, many IBM execs bought IBM's PC manufacturing plant and formed& > Celestica (if I remember correctly). > G > *IF/when* HP gives up on VMS, could the VMS engineers and some of the5M > management who are loyal to VMS buy VMS and form "SharkVMS INC." (or plc oraH > corp) and handle VMS the same way Mentec handled the PDP-11 products ? > I > I realise that such a company would initially lose on some of the largePL > "mission critical" shops who may not want to do business with such a smallP > outfit, but given enough time, couldn' that be rebuilt ?  (or simply outsource > the support to HP or IBM.a > L > Imagine SharkVMS Inc. without any restrictions on marketing, able to blastJ > Microsoft without any limits, and able to ridicule clustering from other > vendors ?n  B 	Good idea, I personally think VMS, Inc. would be better. This wayD 	another round of "is it VMS is it OpenVMS is it SharkVMS" questionsE 	would be avoided by some users. We all know that "Open" is silent...d  D 	As long as VMS is the bastard ( or step ) child of some big companyE 	which only watches the profit line, VMS will only suffer and will benG 	sidelined, marginalised. As a separate company it would stand a betterI= 	chance at survival, with proper advertising, marketing, etc.3- 	And maybe with some help from Samsung... :-)c    	( Dreaming off, back to work. ) 							Cheers,  Csabae  J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:t    Murphy's Fourth Law :G   If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that(;     will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:09:31 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>m7 Subject: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?oJ Message-ID: <%Xvya.214085$w7k.188486@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.htmla  @ Can anyone point me to the equivalent link for HP sponsorship of similar efforts for VMS?   Thanks.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:59:25 GMTd9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>k; Subject: Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?71 Message-ID: <NGwya.1172$Y81.807@news.cpqcorp.net>   G Huh?  Where is it for Windows?  HP-UX?  NSK?  This is a page devoted tot Linux stuff.   Sheesh.i    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:%Xvya.214085$w7k.188486@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...3 > http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.html  >bB > Can anyone point me to the equivalent link for HP sponsorship of > similar efforts for VMS? >(	 > Thanks.- >  >7   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:14:16 -0700o& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>; Subject: Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?a, Message-ID: <3ECA9AA8.9040809@gregcagle.com>  F Not exclusively - the page references open source projects on a numberA of different platforms. The Bastille listing, for example, is forvC HP-UX. Note also that the page refers only to official HP-sponsoredeB open source projects, and is rather incomplete IMHO. There's a lotB of stuff going on that isn't mentioned here. On all platforms 8^).   - Greg   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > Huh?  Where is it for Windows?  HP-UX?  NSK?  This is a page devoted tok > Linux stuff. > 	 > Sheesh.r >  > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF > news:%Xvya.214085$w7k.188486@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > 3 >>http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.htmlk >>B >>Can anyone point me to the equivalent link for HP sponsorship of >>similar efforts for VMS? >>	 >>Thanks.- >> >> >  >  >    --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:14:47 -0700a& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>; Subject: Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?./ Message-ID: <vcl6nki7svo485@corp.supernews.com>O  F Not exclusively - the page references open source projects on a numberA of different platforms. The Bastille listing, for example, is foriC HP-UX. Note also that the page refers only to official HP-sponsoreddB open source projects, and is rather incomplete IMHO. There's a lotB of stuff going on that isn't mentioned here. On all platforms 8^).   - Greg   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > Huh?  Where is it for Windows?  HP-UX?  NSK?  This is a page devoted toh > Linux stuff. > 	 > Sheesh.l >  > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF > news:%Xvya.214085$w7k.188486@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > 3 >>http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.html  >>B >>Can anyone point me to the equivalent link for HP sponsorship of >>similar efforts for VMS? >>	 >>Thanks.y >> >> >  >  >    -- o
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:12:07 -0700 (PDT)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>; Subject: Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS? @ Message-ID: <20030520221207.38235.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   Well  : Deon't forget that HP is a four-in-one company nowadays !  HP=CPQ+DEC+Tandem   3 May be they are not talking to each other inside !     Regardso   FC  & --- John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:3 > http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.htmle > B > Can anyone point me to the equivalent link for HP sponsorship of > similar efforts for VMS? > 	 > Thanks.n >  >      =====j ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilh fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?. The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.comv   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 00:04:35 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"); Subject: Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?c6 Message-ID: <00A2027A.5A879727@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  p In article <%Xvya.214085$w7k.188486@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:2 >http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.html >sA >Can anyone point me to the equivalent link for HP sponsorship of- >similar efforts for VMS?k  J I don't know about sponsorship, but VMS Engineering (part of HP) is doing,L maintaining, and feeding back changes of ports to various OpenSource things, including Apache and STunnel.^   -- Alan  -- dO ===============================================================================f0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056dM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025iO ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:35:54 -0400d% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>-; Subject: Re: Where's the equivalent HP sponsorship for VMS?0. Message-ID: <vclpgccguib57@news.supernews.com>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>A wrote in message news:00A2027A.5A879727@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...cL > In article <%Xvya.214085$w7k.188486@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: 4 > >http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.html > >oC > >Can anyone point me to the equivalent link for HP sponsorship ofT > >similar efforts for VMS?r >tL > I don't know about sponsorship, but VMS Engineering (part of HP) is doing,F > maintaining, and feeding back changes of ports to various OpenSource things,s > including Apache and STunnel.e >n  K And I would add to that, the OpenVMS Freeware which is organized by OpenVMSeA Engineering and contains lots of code that is direct from OpenVMSi Engineering.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 19:08:02 GMTu6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: Re: [MOZILLA B1.4] Junk Controls ? 1 Message-ID: <m2vya.4096$bA5.74081@news.chello.at>   V In article <3EC9FC28.9090009@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes: >Jack Patteeuw wrote:  > 5 >> I believe that Junk Controls only works for mail.   >g> >That's certainly what we are led to believe if you read this:0 >http://www.mozilla.org/mailnews/spam-howto.html  I In the meantime, I can confirm, that Junk Controls did work in M1.3 news.nF Maybe it was not working good enough and was therefor disabled in V1.4K but it was good enough for me. I think, I stay at M1.3 for some time now...e   Thanks for responding    -- t Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERc% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:33:28 -0400E* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"s2 Message-ID: <Oq6dncusPcVm6VejXTWcow@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:_utya.1149$IZ.474@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...c  H > I guess the fact that I'm reviewing platform support plans out through 2007 > doesn't mean anythingM  I You might want to ask the former Alpha team members what future work they E were preparing for in May, 2001, and whether that meant anything.  Of J course, if Bob C.'s crystal ball has finally started producing less randomK output the plans you're making right now might get implemented at MicrosoftcK some time down the road:  the Seattle climate isn't as congenial to golfing L as Florida's is, but at least they usually don't have to play with red balls in the winter.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:30:17 -04003* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?" ) Message-ID: <3ECA7435.997470AD@istop.com>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > I guess the fact that I'm reviewing platform support plans out through 2007 N > doesn't mean anything... someone has decided to pay me to waste my own time,% > as well as the rest of HP's time...g  I Intel is paying you right now since they are funding the port. It doesn'tt? prevent HP corporate from drawing and finalising plans for VMS.s  N Mr Kleinsorge, if HP truly intends to continue to actively sell VMS, why wouldL they consistently avoid including VMS in any of their public presentations ?  F HP's commitment to continue to support existing customers is credible.@ HP's commitment to continue to upgrade/sell VMS is not credible.  N There is still someone at Digital that tests FMS to ensure that it still worksL on new releases of VMS. And HP will still need a few VMS engineers to ensureK the last version of VMS will run on whatever IA64 hardware HP produces well:# after VMS has been declared mature.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:46:33 GMTi9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> 9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"h1 Message-ID: <Juwya.1169$da1.390@news.cpqcorp.net>   7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageb# news:3ECA7435.997470AD@istop.com...t > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > > I guess the fact that I'm reviewing platform support plans out through 2007J > > doesn't mean anything... someone has decided to pay me to waste my own time,t' > > as well as the rest of HP's time...  >aK > Intel is paying you right now since they are funding the port. It doesn't.A > prevent HP corporate from drawing and finalising plans for VMS.y >   H I don't know where you get your information, but it is out of touch withI reality.  I know exactly where our funding comes from, and you'd be quite K suprised - and it isn't Intel.  Intel funds some ISV ports, but isn't where  the VMS budget comes from.  J > Mr Kleinsorge, if HP truly intends to continue to actively sell VMS, why would-L > they consistently avoid including VMS in any of their public presentations ?s >.  J Because the audience they are talking to isn't interested in OpenVMS.  Nor is Wall Street interested.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:56:21 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>d9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?".1 Message-ID: <VDwya.1171$qb1.606@news.cpqcorp.net>i  J Know what, you're right Bill.  You are the Pope of Computers - infallable.G Yup.  Apparently the Inquirer has - in a one line, cryptic throw away -r broken the story wide open.5  L We can only work with what we know the facts are today.  Or we can be frozenG by idle speculation by people who are usually clueless, and who have no I interest in the outcome except as entertainment value (I include both yous and the Inquirer).  I Any big change is a suprise to most people.  I'm sure it was a suprise to K the Alpha group.  And one day, *if* OpenVMS bites the dust - I'm sure we'llt all be suprised too.  H But AFAIK - there are no signs that the day is at hand, or even planned.  I All I can say is that HP had the perfect opportunity to gracefully retirepH VMS both with the Alpha decision, and the merger.  In both cases, and inJ both companies - VMS emerged as an ongoing business.  MPE - with their own5 loyal and vocal customers didn't.  Neither did Tru64.n    5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea, news:Oq6dncusPcVm6VejXTWcow@metrocast.net... >IF > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message, > news:_utya.1149$IZ.474@news.cpqcorp.net... >i > ...w >'J > > I guess the fact that I'm reviewing platform support plans out through > 2007 > > doesn't mean anything  > K > You might want to ask the former Alpha team members what future work they G > were preparing for in May, 2001, and whether that meant anything.  OfoL > course, if Bob C.'s crystal ball has finally started producing less randomC > output the plans you're making right now might get implemented atr	 MicrosoftME > some time down the road:  the Seattle climate isn't as congenial toR golfing H > as Florida's is, but at least they usually don't have to play with red ballse > in the winter. >: > - bill >  >m >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:10:24 -0700e& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?" / Message-ID: <vcl6fe67bfdi9d@corp.supernews.com>l   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  K > All I can say is that HP had the perfect opportunity to gracefully retirenJ > VMS both with the Alpha decision, and the merger.  In both cases, and inL > both companies - VMS emerged as an ongoing business.  MPE - with their own7 > loyal and vocal customers didn't.  Neither did Tru64.I  E Point of clarification - MPE was dead long before the merger. It diedl all by itself 8^).   -- .
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:50:51 -0700S& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?" / Message-ID: <vcl8rbepn3h18d@corp.supernews.com>m   Bill Todd wrote:  L > Though I'm hardly well-acquainted with the MPE situation, people who claimL > to be have observed that its annual revenue was a very small percentage ofG > VMS's and thus far easier to slough off.  Besides, its customers were-J > existing loyal HP customers who would never *think* of moving to another= > vendor when a fine HP alternative like HP-UX was available.:  A Not really the case. There are plenty of alienated people running C MPE - IBM is targeting them explicitly, and being successful at it,w by all reports.B   -- g
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:12:35 -0400t* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"e2 Message-ID: <PrecnYpTeI_ENVejXTWcrg@metrocast.net>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messagea) news:vcl8rbepn3h18d@corp.supernews.com...a > Bill Todd wrote: >WH > > Though I'm hardly well-acquainted with the MPE situation, people who claimeK > > to be have observed that its annual revenue was a very small percentage. ofI > > VMS's and thus far easier to slough off.  Besides, its customers werenL > > existing loyal HP customers who would never *think* of moving to another? > > vendor when a fine HP alternative like HP-UX was available.  >cC > Not really the case. There are plenty of alienated people running E > MPE - IBM is targeting them explicitly, and being successful at it,t > by all reports.s  H Sorry - I'm not a devotee of smileys, so the sarcasm in my comment above? seems not to have come across as clearly as I thought it would.e   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:37:01 -0400o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"t2 Message-ID: <Kj6dndRcX-efPVejXTWcoA@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:VDwya.1171$qb1.606@news.cpqcorp.net...e >uL > Know what, you're right Bill.  You are the Pope of Computers - infallable.  H By no means, Fred - though it's true that I'm considerably less fallibleL than those who have harbored rosy hopes for VMS's future - 'renaissance', or whatever - over the years.  I > Yup.  Apparently the Inquirer has - in a one line, cryptic throw away -  > broken the story wide open.e  I Maybe, maybe not.  Mike is both a great source of information and a greataG source of rubbish.  While his recent contention is certainly plausible,hK whether he has credible specific evidence to back it up remains to be seen.e   > 9 > We can only work with what we know the facts are today.v  J My motto as well.  And the facts speak volumes about HP's lack of interest, in VMS's future to anyone willing to listen.     Or we can be frozeneI > by idle speculation by people who are usually clueless, and who have no K > interest in the outcome except as entertainment value (I include both you. > and the Inquirer).  G You can include whomever you please, Fred.  As for myself, I've come tocL think of you as a kind of pathetic but unquestionably dedicated sucker aboutK this subject (at least I hope you actually believe the things you say), but 5 one way or another we'll know eventually who's right.c   >bK > Any big change is a suprise to most people.  I'm sure it was a suprise toeG > the Alpha group.  And one day, *if* OpenVMS bites the dust - I'm suren we'lla > all be suprised too. >CJ > But AFAIK - there are no signs that the day is at hand, or even planned.  L The signs which you find so cryptic to the point of invisibility seem prettyK clear to a lot of people, Fred.  Think it's those rose-colored glasses thatr could be the problem?r   >rK > All I can say is that HP had the perfect opportunity to gracefully retire 3 > VMS both with the Alpha decision, and the merger.g  J And immediately lose a high-margin, $4 billion annual revenue stream?  NotI even Carly & Curly are that stupid:  they did what it took to preserve attJ least a significant fraction of that revenue without in any way committingG real corporate resources to VMS; after VMS's revenue drops to the point L where even the meagre resources that *are* being devoted to it start lookingD excessive, *then* will be the perfect opportunity to retire VMS (but probably not very gracefully).     In both cases, and intL > both companies - VMS emerged as an ongoing business.  MPE - with their own# > loyal and vocal customers didn't.r  J Though I'm hardly well-acquainted with the MPE situation, people who claimJ to be have observed that its annual revenue was a very small percentage ofE VMS's and thus far easier to slough off.  Besides, its customers weregH existing loyal HP customers who would never *think* of moving to another; vendor when a fine HP alternative like HP-UX was available.n   >  Neither did Tru64.l  I The view from 30,000 feet (where people like C&C apparently spend most ofsK their time) is that a Unix is a Unix is a Unix.  HP already had a Unix withoJ considerably more market penetration than Tru64, so acquiring a second one% would just have confused customers...s  L I just stumbled upon a reference to one of good old Eckhard Pfeiffer's memosJ which indicates just how radical the differences are between the course heG projected for Alpha and its systems and the subsequent path followed byuF Curly, Robison, and now Princess Carly.  It makes for interesting, and sobering, reading:  ' From: President & CEO, Eckhard Pfeiffern) Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 5:10 PM % Subject: Compaq's commitment to Alphav To: All Employeesv  1 Info Type: Business / Process Related Information  Action Req: No  I During the past week, Compaq took several significant steps to underscoreeI our commitment to Alpha and to extend our leadership in 64-bit computing.a  B We announced a series of initiatives with Microsoft to enhance theF availability and scalability of Windows NT, and to give Windows NT andC 64-bit DIGITAL UNIX the highest levels of interoperability. We also,L announced that future generations of Tandem's NonStop Himalaya servers wouldF use the Alpha microprocessor. And we announced that the official ChinaF National Computer Software & Technology Service Corporation has chosen2 DIGITAL UNIX as the basis for China's 64-bit UNIX.  K These initiatives are critical elements of our plan to fully leverage AlphaeJ and the competitive advantages it gives us in key segments of the market -C such as data warehousing, enterprise applications, high-performancecD technical computing and the Internet. We are committed to deliveringH high-volume, 64-bit systems and solutions based on Alpha and, when it is+ available, on **Merced. ** (emphasis added)   B Compaq already has a substantial lead over our competitors. As theJ reference platform for 64-bit Windows NT, Alpha is the only processor thatJ can run 64-bit UNIX and 64-bit Windows NT today. Since DIGITAL UNIX is theG only UNIX that allows customers to develop applications compatible withuL 64-bit Windows NT, it enables them to safely invest in Alpha systems now. WeH expect Alpha to be the highest performance architecture for at least the next decade and beyond.v  H The decision to use Alpha in future generations of Himalaya servers also0 underscores our commitment to NonStop Computing.  J With NSK and 64-bit DIGITAL OpenVMS, Compaq has the best business-criticalH operating systems on the market. That is a competitive advantage that we* must continue to reinforce with customers.  C Alpha is an essential part of Compaq's enterprise strategy. We willuL continue to invest in Alpha and the Alpha brand, in 64-bit operating systemsH and in software partnerships that have already produced more than 11,000G 64-bit applications. These are not just investments in technology. They I are investments in our customers, whose need for high-performance, highlyOH available and highly reliable computing solutions is only going to grow.D With Alpha, Compaq is in the strongest position to meet those needs.  G I am asking each of you to help ensure that we clearly communicate this  message to all our customers.      Regards,     Eckharde  7 Distributed by Reader's Choice http://webrc.das.dec.comp  D Too bad Eckhard got the boot: things might have been very different.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:36:48 -0400:# From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.com>29 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"s7 Message-ID: <Xuxya.328$lk.79066223@news.netcarrier.net>4  I "> I guess the fact that I'm reviewing platform support plans out through  2007H > doesn't mean anything... someone has decided to pay me to waste my own time,c% > as well as the rest of HP's time...s  K                           I guess a better question would be with 1000 Plust more heads about to rollK                           in the High-End Computer Segment. Who will you bes reviewing them With?    >                                                            Rob       >I >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:37:09 -0700a& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"c/ Message-ID: <vclbi34hrslf7e@corp.supernews.com>T   Bill Todd wrote:5 > "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message2+ > news:vcl8rbepn3h18d@corp.supernews.com...h >  >>Bill Todd wrote: >> >>G >>>Though I'm hardly well-acquainted with the MPE situation, people whof >  > claim  > J >>>to be have observed that its annual revenue was a very small percentage >  > of > H >>>VMS's and thus far easier to slough off.  Besides, its customers wereK >>>existing loyal HP customers who would never *think* of moving to anothero> >>>vendor when a fine HP alternative like HP-UX was available. >>C >>Not really the case. There are plenty of alienated people runningDE >>MPE - IBM is targeting them explicitly, and being successful at it,  >>by all reports.- >  > J > Sorry - I'm not a devotee of smileys, so the sarcasm in my comment aboveA > seems not to have come across as clearly as I thought it would.    Ah. I see. 8^)   -- 0
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 20:34:36 -0400V* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"o) Message-ID: <3ECAC99B.212F47F8@istop.com>S   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > Because the audience they are talking to isn't interested in OpenVMS.  Nor > is Wall Street interested.    M So if HP is pitching to an enterprise audience about its strategic directions M and architectures, and mentions windows. HP-UX, linux and Tandem, you mean to8E say that thsi is definitely not the right audience to pitch VMS to ? E  K If you want to grow VMS, you have to pitch it to people who don't currentlye run VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:24:19 -0400e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"r, Message-ID: <3ECAE353.1060005@tsoft-inc.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message1% > news:3ECA7435.997470AD@istop.com...e >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>I >>>I guess the fact that I'm reviewing platform support plans out througha >>>3 > 2007 > I >>>doesn't mean anything... someone has decided to pay me to waste my ownr >>>  > time,e > & >>>as well as the rest of HP's time...     That is good to hear.    >>>nK >>Intel is paying you right now since they are funding the port. It doesn'tsA >>prevent HP corporate from drawing and finalising plans for VMS.  >> >> > J > I don't know where you get your information, but it is out of touch withK > reality.  I know exactly where our funding comes from, and you'd be quiteiM > suprised - and it isn't Intel.  Intel funds some ISV ports, but isn't wherek > the VMS budget comes from.    B When compaq killed Alpha, they also announced that Intel would be N paying/coughing up some money/whatever to port VMS to IA-64.  This could lead P some to believe that Intel is funding the port of VMS to IA-64.  While this may N be part of the VMS budget, or not part of the VMS budget, or non-existant, we M outsiders have no way of knowing.  (Nice touch on mentioning the VMS budget, y4 since the port may not be part of the 'VMS budget'.)  Q Can you tell us whether Intel at any time since the killing of Alpha has offered e8 or pledged to fund any part of the port of VMS to IA-64?  P If that answer is yes, can you tell us if Intel is still funding in any way the  port of VMS to IA-64?s  O If the last 2 questions don't do the job, then can you tell us if HP is solely :! funding the port of VMS to IA-64?o    J >>Mr Kleinsorge, if HP truly intends to continue to actively sell VMS, why >> > would2 > L >>they consistently avoid including VMS in any of their public presentations >> > ?d >  > L > Because the audience they are talking to isn't interested in OpenVMS.  Nor > is Wall Street interested.    K Would you try to convince me that HP is unaware of the concerns of the VMS a customer base?  M If they are aware, then they know that the VMS customer base closely follows  K what they say, even when it's a different audience, and also know that not  N mentioning VMS and HP's plans for VMS is itself a negative message to the VMS Q customer base, why they continue to fail to mention VMS, even a quick statement, n$ regardless of the intended audience?  O Wall Street may not be interested, and maybe because they never hear about it. oN Even if they're not interested, is there harm in a mention of VMS as having a  future with HP?    Dave     -- -4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 23:47:07 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>9 Subject: Re: [The Inquirer] "HP trying to dump OpenVMS ?"a) Message-ID: <3ECAF6AD.2C41DD6D@istop.com>s   David Froble wrote: P > If the last 2 questions don't do the job, then can you tell us if HP is solely# > funding the port of VMS to IA-64?d  K Since the terms of the deal between Compaq and Intel were not divulged, notgL even to shareholders, I don't expect employees at the engineer level to know	 about it.   M The CFO would know since he would be doing funds transfers between budgets to L reallocate the extra funds freed by any Intel contribution, but the folks inI the VMS group would just see a budget without knowing where that money isa coming from.  M But what happens when the Intel money runs out ? Will HP keep the VMS budgetsr
 the same ?  N > If they are aware, then they know that the VMS customer base closely followsL > what they say, even when it's a different audience, and also know that notO > mentioning VMS and HP's plans for VMS is itself a negative message to the VMSaR > customer base, why they continue to fail to mention VMS, even a quick statement,& > regardless of the intended audience?  F The message I sent to Blackmore said explicitely that their consistentI omissions of VMS from any public statements and strategy documents of theoM whole corporations sent a very strong message that VMS does not have a future  within HP. e  P > Wall Street may not be interested, and maybe because they never hear about it.O > Even if they're not interested, is there harm in a mention of VMS as having aR > future with HP?l    J Look at it from HP's point of view. They are measured in market share in 2N markets: wintel crap stuff, and unix.  HP would rather sell a unix system thanI a VMS system even iof the VMS system is more profitable because the unicx < system helps improve HP's standings in the unix marketplace.  L This is why I could understand the concept of giving HP-UX a "VMS shell" andH then converting VMS customers to HP-UX with some VMS shell running their legacy code.  V If HP were to push VMS and grow VMS, HP-UX would lose some market share in the "unix".  G Perhaps the root problem is how carly and HP are measured. It should beoL changed such that a VMS sale would enhance HP's standing in the industry and< on Wall Street. Right now, only wintel and unix sales count.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.279 ************************largehJ "mission critical" shops who may not want to do business with such a smallN outfit, but given enough time, couldn' that be rebuilt ?  (or simply outsource the support to HP or IBM.   J Imagine SharkVMS Inc. without any restrictions on marketing, able to bcMQ\ &hAmPAwϮBվOꄼH*%Eʶ[ܳyG=ܼ((>rA]HO$2g#E*
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