1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 24 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 286       Contents:G Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...") ! advsyscon remote shadow on alpha? % Re: advsyscon remote shadow on alpha? 3 Re: An escape sequence for PF4 in an expect script.  Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME  Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME  RE: FREE TO A GOOD HOME / Re: hanging UCX sessions, expert help required. / Re: hanging UCX sessions, expert help required. / Re: hanging UCX sessions, expert help required. 0 How to diaplay numbers on screen using VAX Macro4 Re: How to diaplay numbers on screen using VAX Macro4 Re: How to diaplay numbers on screen using VAX Macro HP NAS Head and RMS Files ) Mirroring Files in real time across a WAN * Re: New [to me] error showing in errorlog.3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: Overclocking VAXen Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Reading an ASCII File  Re: Reading an ASCII File < Re: [OT] Cellphones (was: Gartners crystal ball cracked ...)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 09:58:56 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")' Message-ID: <3ECF88B0.A30950C0@fsi.net>    David Mathog wrote:  > " > On Fri, 16 May 2003 13:56:46 GMT& > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >  > > And a good .edu policy too.  > > H > > If I were a big VMS shop, I'd call my local university and arrange aB > > meeting between the dean of CompSci and/or Electrical/ComputerI > > Engineering and the most senior HP person I could lay my hands on and J > > tell them both that I wanted HP to donate gear and VMS to that school,G > > and tell the dean that I'd hire either on a co-op or part-time/full G > > time basis any students they could ship my way who had hands-on VMS  > > experience.  >  > With the result that...  > ? > The CompSci Dean tells you that they do serious academic work D > in his/her department and that you should call DeVry or some other= > "trade school" (barely disguised sneer) if you want to find C > somebody who knows how to run a VMS system.  However, he/she will @ > be happy to take your money to fund a new "Your Company's Name5 > Here" Professor of CompSci.  You decline the offer.  > ; > The most senior HP person that will take your call denies ? > the existence of VMS as an HP product.  When pressed he calls ? > back days later and admits that VMS exists but tells you that < > HP Innovation policy precludes him from spending any moneyC > whatsoever promoting that product.  You offer to buy the machines 6 > for the University yourself.  He doesn't know how to< > sell them to you and refers you to a humongous and equally; > disinterested "Partner".  You swear that you'll never buy * > a machine from anybody but Island again. > A > You place an ad in the campus newspaper:  "Intern at my company @ > and learn VMS".  None of the students call but a couple of out4 > of work alumni who graduated in the early 80's do. > 7 > You hire the alums and three foreign workers with VMS * > experience named Singh, Patra and Raman.  H The scenario David Mathog decsribes is the way things will be until someD of us band together and take VMS matters into our own hands. Now, weC *CAN* do this without ruffling HP's feathers by becoming a reseller F and/or Partner/VAR; so, don't go giving a bunch of crap about that. HPG is still a business. You order stuff from them - especially high margin G stuff like VMS and related hardware - and they're gonna sell it to you, G perhaps grudgingly, but they will sell it. We may need to negotiate the G relationship such that no "unreasonable" restrictions will be placed on C our efforts to put money in their pockets. Sad that we even need to F consider that, but that's how it is - so be it. It'll be up to us thenH to do our own advertising and other marketing, and they won't be able to say spit about it.  A The hard part will not be technical, it will be social - and that G stretches most of out of our comfort zones. We're techies. We deal with E the machine: it does what we tell it to, regardless of whether or not G what we "said" is what we meant. We'll have to court investors, partner F with others and face prospective customers. That's not what we're bestF at, but it's where we'll need to be until we can afford to hire it out0 to professional sales critters, financiers, etc.  H Who's with me? ...especially folks whose sig.'s say they are looking forB VMS work...? The best way - and the most we can do - to secure our> future is to take our employment situation into our own hands.  D Got the balls for it? How to de-mung the reply-to should be obvious.B Let's take this off-line, o.k.? When I send you an off-line reply,< you'll have my "real" e-mail address and it won't be munged.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 05:12:28 -0400   From: Hal Kuff <kuff@tessco.com>* Subject: advsyscon remote shadow on alpha?? Message-ID: <kuff-C63589.05122824052003@news-east.giganews.com>   1 Is anyone using advsyscon remote shadow on alpha?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 11:23:57 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG. Subject: Re: advsyscon remote shadow on alpha?0 Message-ID: <00A2054D.E8B0450E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <kuff-C63589.05122824052003@news-east.giganews.com>, Hal Kuff <kuff@tessco.com> writes:2 >Is anyone using advsyscon remote shadow on alpha?  " Only for possible data corruption.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 2003 15:41:14 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> < Subject: Re: An escape sequence for PF4 in an expect script.* Message-ID: <bao3qq$i0d$1@news1.radix.net>  + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  > Jason Brady wrote:H >> Because PF keys fall into the keypad grouping you use ESC [ O or SS3: >>    >> Key        7-bit        8-bit! >> PF1      ESC [ O P     SS3 + P ! >> PF2      ESC [ O Q     SS3 + Q ! >> PF3      ESC [ O R     SS3 + R ! >> PF4      ESC [ O S     SS3 + S    > Actially, SS3 is ESC O.      > So PF1 is ESC O P   M Actually SS3 is the C1 control equivalent to ESC O P.  (Generally I would use M SS3 to apply to either to simplify documentation, but technically it is 8/15,  i.e., 143).    --  = Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>  http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:19:05 GMT ) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>   Subject: Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME' Message-ID: <3ECF6294.C8AC0AA8@ev1.net>    Lord Isildur wrote:  > ? >           [snip...]           [snip...]             [snip...]  > K > But yeah, i never intended to accumulate this much stuff.. just you know, K > you see a vax sitting on a loading dock, or in the hall being thrown out, J > you take it home.. you see a vax 200 miles away being junked, you rent a  > truck and bring it home *grin* > 9 "Hey mom, look what followed me home... Can I keep it???"   > My wife would *not* be so miffed at my old computer collectionA if I would spend more time making what I have work in some way... @ instead of dragging in more junk all the time. Still, if I lived near Pittsburgh...   --B +----------------------------------------------------------------+B |   Charles and Francis Richmond     richmond at plano dot net   |B +----------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:46:18 -0400 (EDT) + From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>   Subject: Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOMEH Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.55L-032.0305241042570.1135@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>  = the fujitsu eagles, i think, ran on 3-phase. a friend of mine G told me a story from when he was in high school, working as an operator G in a machine room at CMU.. there was a power failure, and racks full of J eagles began spinning down.. the whole room just hummed its tone lower andF lower.. ad then the power came back on. All the drives came back up inI phase, except one. The power had been out for maybe 15 seconds. The disks L were still spinning at maybe 2000 rpm or so. and the one that came up out ofI phase stopped, instantly. Terrible noise. Disk dead. The platters had all  bent from the inerta dump.. :)   isildur     + On Sat, 24 May 2003, Michael Moroney wrote:   + > Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> writes:  > 6 > >Huh... could have sworn a 750 ran on 3-phase... 8-/ > J > Not the 750 itself, but some old disk drives of that era apparently did.F > A long-time Deccie was telling me just today about these drives with@ > three phase drive motors.. wouldn't even spin on single phase. > E > One model was smart enough to not spin if the phasing was reversed, H > the other would spin _backwards_ (but was smart enough not to load the) > heads). Forget which drives those were.  > H > DEC always overbuilt everything power-related in those days.  ProbablyH > lots of 750s came with 3 phase 30+A power cords even though they couldG > actually be powered off a single phase 15A home circuit.  Look in the H > old hardware, most of those mega power feeds went to a controller withH > a bunch of ordinary single phase outlets, and all the subcomponents of/ > the computer were plugged into those outlets.  >  > -Mike  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 07:52:36 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: FREE TO A GOOD HOME9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEDBHEAA.tom@kednos.com>   @ I believe the Eagle was single phase, but it may have been 220V.   >-----Original Message----- 3 >From: Lord Isildur [mailto:isildur@andrew.cmu.edu] % >Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:46 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Re: FREE TO A GOOD HOME  >  >  > > >the fujitsu eagles, i think, ran on 3-phase. a friend of mineH >told me a story from when he was in high school, working as an operatorH >in a machine room at CMU.. there was a power failure, and racks full ofK >eagles began spinning down.. the whole room just hummed its tone lower and G >lower.. ad then the power came back on. All the drives came back up in J >phase, except one. The power had been out for maybe 15 seconds. The disksD >were still spinning at maybe 2000 rpm or so. and the one that came 
 >up out ofJ >phase stopped, instantly. Terrible noise. Disk dead. The platters had all >bent from the inerta dump.. :)  >  >isildur >  > , >On Sat, 24 May 2003, Michael Moroney wrote: > , >> Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com> writes: >>7 >> >Huh... could have sworn a 750 ran on 3-phase... 8-/  >>K >> Not the 750 itself, but some old disk drives of that era apparently did. G >> A long-time Deccie was telling me just today about these drives with A >> three phase drive motors.. wouldn't even spin on single phase.  >>F >> One model was smart enough to not spin if the phasing was reversed,I >> the other would spin _backwards_ (but was smart enough not to load the * >> heads). Forget which drives those were. >>I >> DEC always overbuilt everything power-related in those days.  Probably I >> lots of 750s came with 3 phase 30+A power cords even though they could H >> actually be powered off a single phase 15A home circuit.  Look in theI >> old hardware, most of those mega power feeds went to a controller with I >> a bunch of ordinary single phase outlets, and all the subcomponents of 0 >> the computer were plugged into those outlets. >> >> -Mike >> >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.480 / Virus Database: 276 - Release Date: 5/12/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.480 / Virus Database: 276 - Release Date: 5/12/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:37:12 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>8 Subject: Re: hanging UCX sessions, expert help required.' Message-ID: <3ECF2F38.3080105@spam.com>   
 Andrew wrote: G  > I am the network manager of our company. We have limited VMS support H  > onsite, as the main admin work on the VMS boxes is oracle/application	  > based.   >.  > We have a problem with 2 servers currently.  >B  > Both run VMS 7.1-2 with the most recent version of UCX with ECOJ  > applied. We are planning a program to move to the new VMS and TCP/IP 5=  G  > soon ! before anyone asks, but I need a fix for our current systems. J  > We are in contact with compaq... sorry HP but so far we are being told=  "  > we are having network problems.  >  > Here is the Scenario   >J  > 2 telnet sessions running and loggged in. We type is a command that is=  C  > specific to our application so I'll not mention it here, and the J  > response from that hangs. At the same time we cannot establish any new=  E  > telnet/FTP sessions or can the server print using Jetdirect to our J  > many printers onsite. But the any exiting FTP/Telnet sessions continue=    > to work normally !!  >J  > Help a network guy pass it back to our VMS people who keep blamming my=    > network !    , Andrew, with so less inputs hwo can we help?  J However, I would install TCP/IP right now as any version would be, to me,=
  better=20) than UCX V4. This may solve your problem.    My suggestion:  ; Do you have a develoment machine with the very same config? J If you have, take your OpenVMS CD, do a product install TCPIP, which will=  save=20J all and every previous config data you have, then will remove very cleanl=	 y UCX,=20  then will install TCP/IP V5.x.  . Then do your Telnet test, then come back here.   Regards,   D. --=20 - Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros                     "Tout VMS" -   19 chemin de la Butte 31400 Toulouse France /   T=E9l: 33(0)5 6120 1964 Fax: 33(0)5 6154 1928 &           http://www.didiermorandi.com                    RC en cours   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 12:34:04 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> 8 Subject: Re: hanging UCX sessions, expert help required.5 Message-ID: <banhr1$1keqi$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   : "Andrew" <freestyle_london@yahoo.co.uk> schreef in bericht6 news:88f6adbc.0305231629.a848d7a@posting.google.com...F > I am the network manager of our company. We have limited VMS supportG > onsite, as the main admin work on the VMS boxes is oracle/application  > based. > - > We have a problem with 2 servers currently.  > A > Both run VMS 7.1-2 with the most recent version of UCX with ECO H > applied. We are planning a program to move to the new VMS and TCP/IP 5F > soon ! before anyone asks, but I need a fix for our current systems.H > We are in contact with compaq... sorry HP but so far we are being told! > we are having network problems.  >  > Here is the Scenario > H > 2 telnet sessions running and loggged in. We type is a command that isB > specific to our application so I'll not mention it here, and theH > response from that hangs. At the same time we cannot establish any newD > telnet/FTP sessions or can the server print using Jetdirect to ourH > many printers onsite. But the any exiting FTP/Telnet sessions continue > to work normally !!  > H > Help a network guy pass it back to our VMS people who keep blamming my > network !   0 A little more information would be useful, like:2 - IP  addresses and masks of the systems involved.E - the telnet sessions are between the two VMS systems or is/are other  system(s) used as well? E - This suddenly started; say one month ago there were no problems and  nothing has changed?H Not only changes in the VMS or UCX configurations but on your router(s).L There was a problem with telnet in UCX but that would have been obvious fromH the day you started using that UCX version. But if I were you I'd have aF close look whether the return path is properly set up. The VMS systems# answer to ping AND do that in time?    HansA If you have LAT between these systems, does that signal problems?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:24:54 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 8 Subject: Re: hanging UCX sessions, expert help required.% Message-ID: <3ECF8EC6.548C96@fsi.net>   
 Andrew wrote:  > F > I am the network manager of our company. We have limited VMS supportG > onsite, as the main admin work on the VMS boxes is oracle/application  > based. > - > We have a problem with 2 servers currently.  > A > Both run VMS 7.1-2 with the most recent version of UCX with ECO H > applied. We are planning a program to move to the new VMS and TCP/IP 5F > soon ! before anyone asks, but I need a fix for our current systems.H > We are in contact with compaq... sorry HP but so far we are being told! > we are having network problems.  >  > Here is the Scenario > H > 2 telnet sessions running and loggged in. We type is a command that isB > specific to our application so I'll not mention it here, and theH > response from that hangs. At the same time we cannot establish any newD > telnet/FTP sessions or can the server print using Jetdirect to ourH > many printers onsite. But the any exiting FTP/Telnet sessions continue > to work normally !!  > H > Help a network guy pass it back to our VMS people who keep blamming my > network !   C Obviously - the failure to accept new incoming connections (is that C *ALL* types? Telnet included? Can you PING the machine?) suggests a 0 failure of the InternetACP process of some sort.   That's gonna be a toughie!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 12:21:11 +0200 % From: "Jeams ZHI" <chnzw@hotmail.com> 9 Subject: How to diaplay numbers on screen using VAX Macro 3 Message-ID: <banh2m$hjv$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr>   J My data prototype is .long, ex: 4000, how to disaplay it in a screen usingL smg$put_chars and VAX Macro ? the problem is how to transfert it to .ascid ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 07:18:18 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)= Subject: Re: How to diaplay numbers on screen using VAX Macro L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2405030718180001@user-uinj4iq.dialup.mindspring.com>  ? In article <banh2m$hjv$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr>, "Jeams ZHI"  <chnzw@hotmail.com> wrote:  K >My data prototype is .long, ex: 4000, how to disaplay it in a screen using M >smg$put_chars and VAX Macro ? the problem is how to transfert it to .ascid ?   I You probably need to use the SYS$FAO system service to format the integer - as a string, and then pass the string to SMG.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 14:03:38 +0200 % From: "Jeams ZHI" <chnzw@hotmail.com> = Subject: Re: How to diaplay numbers on screen using VAX Macro 3 Message-ID: <bann2m$1cq$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>   ; "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> дϢ B :rdeininger-2405030718180001@user-uinj4iq.dialup.mindspring.com...A > In article <banh2m$hjv$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr>, "Jeams ZHI"  > <chnzw@hotmail.com> wrote: > G > >My data prototype is .long, ex: 4000, how to disaplay it in a screen  using F > >smg$put_chars and VAX Macro ? the problem is how to transfert it to .ascid ? > K > You probably need to use the SYS$FAO system service to format the integer / > as a string, and then pass the string to SMG.    OK, i try it. thx!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 04:35:13 -0400   From: Hal Kuff <kuff@tessco.com>" Subject: HP NAS Head and RMS Files? Message-ID: <kuff-994910.04351324052003@news-east.giganews.com>   H    We're looking to use an HP NAS head (two NFS file share servers that D bit map synch across a network link) to shadow RMS journaling files  between two sites over a T-3.   F    There have been some posts on whether te NFS clients will preserve  attributes.   E    Has anyone tried NFS shares to support RMS index or journal files? G Does anyone have a test system they could try moving an RMS index file   to and testing the attributes?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 04:38:10 -0400   From: Hal Kuff <kuff@tessco.com>2 Subject: Mirroring Files in real time across a WAN? Message-ID: <kuff-2482D0.04381024052003@news-east.giganews.com>   B    We have a T-3 between two facilities... that yields a speed of  perhaps 20 gigabytes per hour.  F    We are looking for a way to write bit map mirror files between the B two sites.  HP makes a NAS head that would do this via NFS shares.  I    Is anyone doing anything similar with live RMS files...(On one end of    course - read only on the other)   ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 03 08:53:51 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 3 Subject: Re: New [to me] error showing in errorlog. ) Message-ID: <OJzBTdug46nR@elias.decus.ch>   l In article <Nqbza.11924$AS6.158711@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:w > In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA685456A@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes: @ >>I see the following in an output file from a DIAGNOSE command; > ) > What DECevent version ? V3.4 or older ? ( > What hardware ? Too new for DECevent ? >   * Here's what I found in our kits directory:  = DIAA033.A;1             3744/3744     27-JUN-2000 08:42:31.32 = DIAA033.B;1             9324/9324     27-JUN-2000 08:42:47.76 = DIAA033.C;1            20502/20502    27-JUN-2000 08:43:29.52 = DIAA033.D;1            33516/33516    27-JUN-2000 08:45:02.11 = DIAA034.A;1             4914/4914     13-JUN-2002 15:14:25.67 = DIAA034.B;1             9360/9360     13-JUN-2002 15:14:51.52 = DIAA034.C;1            20718/20718    13-JUN-2002 15:15:50.09 = DIAA034.D;1            33570/33570    13-JUN-2002 15:18:52.19   7 So 3.3 is definitely too old for the harware concerned.      --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 02:33:52 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)( Message-ID: <3ECF124D.C9AF79C@istop.com>   Rob Young wrote:D > The scheduler.  (process scheduler in VMS, thread scheduler in NT)D > 32 scheduling priorities, divided into the "real-time" (16-31) and$ > "variable" (0-15) priority ranges.  N Has it ever occured to you that the number "32" is VERY common in computers. ?J Has it ever occured to you that using the high order bit to determine if a3 process is real-time or not is also  very logical ?   # >  identical preemption at ready by  > higher-priority threads;     my old PSION PDA has that.     > a null thread for each CPU;   * my old PSION PDA has that. called SYS$NULL   > Memory management.    / Does NT make use of the 4 modes that VMS uses ?   L And how come one process on NT can crash the whole system if it has the same protections as VMS ?  C > I/O.  I could write a book (in fact, I am), but briefly, IRPs are F > IRPs, UCBs are "device objects", CRBs are "controller objects", ADPs> > are "adapter objects", FDT routines are "dispatch routines",  M Just because they have similar concepts doesn't mean that the two OS fundtion M the same way. And event if parts of NT are copied directly from similar parts ? of VMS, the operating system as a whole is extremely different.     G > Interrupt handling.  32 levels of interrupts (some simulated but this     Wow, that magic 32 number again.    @ My little PSION has the equivalent of mailboxes for interprocessN communications, very similar to VMS. It has semaphores (event flags), and someK of the drivers also support completion routines (ASTs).  Oh, abnd the PSION N proprietary network stack is very similar in function to DECnet. (from my PDA,J I can edit a file residing on my mac for instance, and from the mac, I can start a process on my PSION).   E So tell me,  does NT have a distributed lock manager ? Does it have a J sophisticated disk/file system that supports host based volume shadowing ?   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 02:06:36 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) < Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)3 Message-ID: <jScwdl0bOLwi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3ECF124D.C9AF79C@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  > Rob Young wrote:E >> The scheduler.  (process scheduler in VMS, thread scheduler in NT) E >> 32 scheduling priorities, divided into the "real-time" (16-31) and % >> "variable" (0-15) priority ranges.  > P > Has it ever occured to you that the number "32" is VERY common in computers. ?L > Has it ever occured to you that using the high order bit to determine if a5 > process is real-time or not is also  very logical ?  > $ >>  identical preemption at ready by >> higher-priority threads;  >  > my old PSION PDA has that. >  >  >> a null thread for each CPU; > , > my old PSION PDA has that. called SYS$NULL >  >> Memory management.  > 1 > Does NT make use of the 4 modes that VMS uses ?  > N > And how come one process on NT can crash the whole system if it has the same > protections as VMS ? > D >> I/O.  I could write a book (in fact, I am), but briefly, IRPs areG >> IRPs, UCBs are "device objects", CRBs are "controller objects", ADPs ? >> are "adapter objects", FDT routines are "dispatch routines",  > O > Just because they have similar concepts doesn't mean that the two OS fundtion O > the same way. And event if parts of NT are copied directly from similar parts A > of VMS, the operating system as a whole is extremely different.  >   3 	JF, you obviously are attempting to take a stab at < 	this years later.  Go back and revisit the original thread," 	you admitted you were wrong then:  f http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5mntiv%24sm8%242%40wagner.spc.videotron.ca&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain  0 From: jfmezei <"jfmezei"@videotron.ca.[no.spam]>! Subject: Re: FX!32, affinity etc.  Date: 1997/05/306 Message-ID: <5mntiv$sm8$2@wagner.spc.videotron.ca>#1/19 References: <009B44A8.70132C31.4@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>		  ; <338A488D.6FC7@videotron.ca> <1997May28.101149.7776@cmkrnl>  Organization: SPC * Reply-To: "jfmezei"@videotron.ca.[no.spam] Newsgroups: comp.os.vms       * Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems wrote:@ > Face it, JF, you're wrong.  Worse, you are writing not just inA > misunderstanding but in ignorance of the facts.  Please go read G > _Showstopper_ and _Inside Windows NT_ (Custer) before opining further  > on this subject.  F Ok I stand corrected. NT uses a lot of similar facilities and conceptsH as VMS. But this does not mean that NT is the only one which is inspiredH from VMS, now does it mean that those concepts are exclusive of VMS (and NT).  C When NT came out, people pointed to me the similarities to VMS at a B higher level than you described, and those features (at the higherB level) are common to many other operating systems, including PSION pocket organisers.   ---    > Does it have aL > sophisticated disk/file system that supports host based volume shadowing ?  @ 	Yes.  Keep current if you are going to bash NT/2000 or whatever 	it is called today.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 04:02:52 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)) Message-ID: <3ECF272B.36C362DE@istop.com>    Rob Young wrote:< >         JF, you obviously are attempting to take a stab atE >         this years later.  Go back and revisit the original thread, + >         you admitted you were wrong then:   G I am saying the same thing.  NT is not the only OS to have concepts and  portions very similar to VMS.   M 32 is a magic number and used a lot in computers. If NT has 32 priorities and K VMS has 32 priorities, is it because NT copied VMS or because they used the  same logic ?  J So, NT used similar concepts for IO, but IO alone doesn't make an OS. Does NTFS have any roots in RMS ?  J If person A worked on VMS drivers and now works for NT drivers and he saidN that because the 2 driver systems are very similar, the 2 OS are very similar,M then I say that the person has a very narrow view of what an OS is all about.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:38:57 -0400 8 From: Jeff Walters <jwalters_1_nospam@no_yahoo_spam.com>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)/ Message-ID: <vcv102ohhirrb7@corp.supernews.com>    > Buy?  Purchase? , > Do you mean gain?  What "profit" is in it? > < > Well, the statement itself is true.  NT does have a strong= > relationship to VMS.  We shouldn't shy away from the truth.   G But this is a trivial piece of truth that's hardly worth the airtime it G gets.  Knowing it does you very little good on a practical level.  It's H only satisfying on an emotional level, and then only if you loved VMS to start with.     % >> The implementations are different, 9 >> their guiding purposes and philosophies are different.  > ' > Wow, you watched Matrix Reloaded too?    No.     G Here are some philosophical differences.  NT aims to live in very large B numbers of connected low-cost PC's, to keep the GUI central to theG architecture, and to run on open hardware.  The application development H paradigm is centered around event handling, every application has a mainI event loop.  NT aims to provide some functionality to make everyone happy H from the office secretary to the system and network managers in the data) center to grandma checking email at home.   I VMS aims to run on smaller numbers of bigger, more centralized and closed F pieces of hardware, doesn't really need a GUI and the applications areK generally written in a procedural paradigm rather than event loop.  It runs D on a desktop workstation as an afterthought.  It aims to make systemF managers and computer security personnel happy by giving them a lot ofD control and stability, and running on well-proven hardware, but onlyF computer scientists and business people who like stability and controlH could love it.  Grandma's and secretaries and email/web users can't loveE it.  I remember the widespread cheers in my office when we moved from " All-in-1 mail to Outlook/Exchange.  K Two different guiding philosophies, mission statements, whatever, that have 1 significantly affected the two systems all along.    In fact, you say...   B >  Microsoft developers wrote NT's kernel almost entirely in C. In >  developing NT, F > these designers rewrote VMS in C, cleaning up, tuning, tweaking, andC > adding some new functionality and capabilities as they went. This F > statement is in danger of trivializing their efforts; after all, theJ > designers built a new API (i.e., Win32), a new file system (i.e., NTFS),H > and a new graphical interface subsystem and administrative environmentL > while maintaining backward compatibility with DOS, OS/2, POSIX, and Win16.I > Nevertheless, the migration of VMS internals to NT was so thorough that L > within a few weeks of NT's release, Digital engineers noticed the striking > similarities.   F So the OS code is a total rewrite, and in a new language.  The code isF different code.  What's the same?  The concepts, the abstractions, theK blocks on the block diagram.  And even the concepts are somewhat changed as  you describe above.     J The similarities are an interesting bit of computer trivia, and that's allK they are, because they don't change how you do your job.  It's water-cooler  talk.    > I > Those similarities could fill a book. In fact, you can read sections of F > VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures (Digital Press) as an accurateJ > description of NT internals simply by translating VMS terms to NT terms.  J This would be a risky and dumb move to do while accepting a paycheck.  GetG the Windows documentation if you're doing Windows.  Why play this game?:   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 12:04:07 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) < Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)3 Message-ID: <Vgq18gThzmQG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <vcv102ohhirrb7@corp.supernews.com>, Jeff Walters <jwalters_1_nospam@no_yahoo_spam.com> writes:   >>  J >> Those similarities could fill a book. In fact, you can read sections ofG >> VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures (Digital Press) as an accuratelK >> description of NT internals simply by translating VMS terms to NT terms.i > L > This would be a risky and dumb move to do while accepting a paycheck.  GetI > the Windows documentation if you're doing Windows.  Why play this game?: >   > 	That is what Mark Russonivich wrote in his article.  It isn'tB 	a game.  Almost every internal featured of NT 1.0 was lifted fromA 	VMS.  Don't debate me, trot some of what Russonivich or HanrahanS& 	wrote and pick it a part.  Good luck.   				Robh   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:38:36 +0200i" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits' Message-ID: <3ECF2F8C.3070604@spam.com>M   David L. Cathey wrote: ../..tG >         Of course, a big thanks to all in the OpenVMS group for theirpE > support of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program!  At this time, the OpenVMS-D > Hobbyist Program has provided over 444,000 license PAK's since the  > program begin on May 18, 1997.    4 Are we going to be more numerous than "real" Users ?   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:21:21 -050081 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits' Message-ID: <3ECF8DF1.DF99B589@fsi.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:o >  > David L. Cathey wrote: > ../.. I > >         Of course, a big thanks to all in the OpenVMS group for their G > > support of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program!  At this time, the OpenVMSPF > > Hobbyist Program has provided over 444,000 license PAK's since the" > > program begin on May 18, 1997. > 6 > Are we going to be more numerous than "real" Users ?   Seems to me we already are!s  F ...and unlike my current gig, I still support (Micro)VAX here at home!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 10:36:26 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)w( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits3 Message-ID: <xzjVuSDMpVvL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3ECF8DF1.DF99B589@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:P > Didier Morandi wrote:u >> l >> David L. Cathey wrote:f >> ../..J >> >         Of course, a big thanks to all in the OpenVMS group for theirH >> > support of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program!  At this time, the OpenVMSG >> > Hobbyist Program has provided over 444,000 license PAK's since thee# >> > program begin on May 18, 1997.s >>  7 >> Are we going to be more numerous than "real" Users ?  >  > Seems to me we already are!t  C Since hobbyists get PAKs for all layered products free, the averageaF hobbyist machine naturally has PAKs for more products than the average commercial machine.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 15:37:12 GMTf' From: "Mark E. Levy" <melevy@attbi.com>0( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits- Message-ID: <IkMza.97691$rt6.33127@sccrnsc02>S  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3ECF8DF1.DF99B589@fsi.net...  > Didier Morandi wrote:a > >S > > David L. Cathey wrote:	 > > ../..CK > > >         Of course, a big thanks to all in the OpenVMS group for theirrI > > > support of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program!  At this time, the OpenVMSsH > > > Hobbyist Program has provided over 444,000 license PAK's since the$ > > > program begin on May 18, 1997. > >e8 > > Are we going to be more numerous than "real" Users ? >  > Seems to me we already are!a  L And exactly how much revenue has HP generated from said hobbyist program? IfK the number of "real" users continues to slide, so will HP's interest in thetI hobbyist program. Someone has to pay the engineers, and I seriously doubts= that HP would continue the program out of a sense of history.o  L My point is that pointing out that there are more no-revenue users out there, than paying users may not be a good thing...   -- e Mark E. Levy" System Management Associates, Inc. www.sysman-inc.com www.openvms.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:42:28 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits5 Message-ID: <bao6ug$1r7qq$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de>   , On 23-May-2003 23:39, David L. Cathey wrote:   > [...]  > G >         Of course, a big thanks to all in the OpenVMS group for their E > support of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program!  At this time, the OpenVMSiD > Hobbyist Program has provided over 444,000 license PAK's since the  > program begin on May 18, 1997.  G 440k licenses within six years are about 73k licenses a year, but even o$ that number is really impressive ...   Michaele   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 02:10:05 -0400t* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: Overclocking VAXend. Message-ID: <3ECED47D.26214.DB43D61@localhost>  , On 24 May 2003 at 4:25, Zane H. Healy wrote:F > If someone needs a faster VAX, they *might* be better off going withL > CHARON-VAX, but it still can't beat one of the faster VAXen, an Alpha, or & > the Itanium 2's that are on the way.B They're working on multi-processor VAX emulators.  But you didn't > hear it from me .  ;)   And the Itanium will be even a better  emulation platform.d  : > I for one would like to here real-world examples of suchL > performance from someone that's running it, not someone that is trying to 	 > sell it.B There are at least two CHARON-VAX customers that have posted good C things here in comp.os.vms.  (I'm keeping them for my scrapbook.)  c Search the archive.1  F > I've got to admit that I'm very impressed by what I just read on theN > Charon-VAX.  I take it the "Dynamic Instruction Translation" is kind of like2 > what WinNT/Alpha could do with x86 windows apps?B Well, I wouldn't be surprised to find some of the same folks from E FX!32 are involved.  SRI also updated DECmigrate, and are working on .) the Alpha->Itanium version of DECmigrate.r  N > Personally, the biggest advantages I see to CHARON-VAX is that it's a way toN > get VAX-only apps running on an Alpha (I wouldn't trust something running onN > OpenVMS to a Windows based system), and the ability to get off of really old > hardware.SA Yep.  CHARON-VAX is supported on Alpha.  And trust is earned, no c doubt there.  L > Since it's rated at 6.2 for SPECint92, I think it's safe to say that a VLCE > is a whole lot more than 0.5 VUPs, I know it's a lot faster than my4' > VS3100/20 which is a usable 2.4 VUPs.dD It was my attempt at humor.  I'm glad that some people have time to E kill.  Good thing that I like what I do -- which is working with VMS.1  
 --Stan Quaylem Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-167111 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147i= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comh   ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 2003 05:08 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)c" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death- Message-ID: <24MAY200305084234@gerg.tamu.edu>a  / young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes...h: }"NT is modeled after many VMS concepts, not based on VMS" }  }	That is not true.  }  }				Rob  
 Yes it is.   It also is not.l  > The problem is that the phrase "based on" is not well defined.. Your definition does not match his definition.  ? Depending on what definition you are using, the validity of the- statement can go either way.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 12:01:06 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)-" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death3 Message-ID: <MMS$a+WI2XeO@eisner.encompasserve.org>3  W In article <24MAY200305084234@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:A1 > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes...0< > }"NT is modeled after many VMS concepts, not based on VMS" > }  > }	That is not true.f > } 
 > }				Rob >  > Yes it is. >  > It also is not.r > @ > The problem is that the phrase "based on" is not well defined.0 > Your definition does not match his definition. > A > Depending on what definition you are using, the validity of the  > statement can go either way. >   9 	I know this is turning into a sematical pissing contest.   : 	I would argue that if your design is more than similar, -9 	i.e. a rewrite of the former - it is more than based on.,   	Comprende?r   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 03 08:48:36 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)M" Subject: Re: Reading an ASCII File) Message-ID: <jrfChuyRnXuW@elias.decus.ch>o  c In article <GUkmt60pG$lo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:ed > In article <baj0es$9vrl$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes: >> LOL ! > C > What's so funny ?  There was nothing in the request/assignment tonF > say one had to _do_ anything with the file contents, just read them. > C > There was nothing in the request/assignment regarding _what_ filed< > was to be read, so I chose one that is likely to be there.  G Well, I found it incredibly funny, and my keyboard nearly suffered fromoE coffee stains. The poster asked how to do it, you gave an answer, buta> I am willing to bet it was not the answer he was expecting :-)       > ? >> "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schreef in berichtp0 >> news:l$C6wYaPzIVZ@eisner.encompasserve.org...A >>> In article <d6405963.0305211309.64106693@posting.google.com>,-2 >> maneesh_jain@hotmail.com (Maneesh Jain) writes: >>>2K >>> > In one of my programs, I need to read an ASCII File. Can someone give 1 >>> > me a sample program that does this? Thanks.@ >>>s! >>>     with TEXT_IO;use TEXT_IO;i >>>     procedure DEMO is  >>>2  >>>         MY_FILE : FILE_TYPE;+ >>>         BUFFER : STRING ( 1 .. 32767 );w >>>         LAST : NATURAL;M >>>,
 >>>     begin  >>>I+ >>>         TEXT_IO.OPEN ( FILE => MY_FILE, D >>>                        NAME => SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM" ); >>>e: >>>         while not END_OF_FILE ( FILE => MY_FILE ) loop3 >>>             TEXT_IO.GET_LINE ( FILE => MY_FILE, 2 >>>                                ITEM => BUFFER,2 >>>                                LAST => LAST ); >>>         end loop;w >>>a >>>     end DEMO;m >> k > -- lP > ==============================================================================K > The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anything L >      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willK >      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings J >      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival  >      of the online community."P > ============================================================================== --     -- k
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 08:52:36 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i" Subject: Re: Reading an ASCII File3 Message-ID: <IdTuZ8tU0qgY@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  U In article <jrfChuyRnXuW@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:oe > In article <GUkmt60pG$lo@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:ge >> In article <baj0es$9vrl$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:h	 >>> LOL !  >> aD >> What's so funny ?  There was nothing in the request/assignment toG >> say one had to _do_ anything with the file contents, just read them.  >> aD >> There was nothing in the request/assignment regarding _what_ file= >> was to be read, so I chose one that is likely to be there.e > I > Well, I found it incredibly funny, and my keyboard nearly suffered fromvG > coffee stains. The poster asked how to do it, you gave an answer, bute@ > I am willing to bet it was not the answer he was expecting :-)  @ The multilingual design of VMS should be proclaimed to newcomers< rather than hidden, but I felt the problem was too simple to? warrant a solution that used more than one language.  I figureda( everybody would contribute their own :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 24 May 03 10:15:04 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)cE Subject: Re: [OT] Cellphones (was: Gartners crystal ball cracked ...)h) Message-ID: <GbFuJyK7WnCQ@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <EPl8wVnQI5$l@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:vW > In article <PbYXg9Q2AKmW@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:>f >> In article <5+lgA5$a$7h8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:X >>> In article <3ECB3178.48E87EE5@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >>> J >>>> Perhaps the US is starting to see the analog to GSM revolution, whileM >>>> the peak may not have been reached yet, culminating in the switch-off of % >>>> the US analog cellphone network.a >>> K >>> I have had my analog cellphone since 1984 (I had IMTS some years beforehK >>> AMPS was developed), but if the analog service were no longer available & >>> I am not sure I would get another. >>>   I Ah, the good old solid models, built in the same fashion as my VaxstationoF 3100. Long after the slimmer models came out, building contractors and6 the like were telling me how indestructable they were.   J >>> They don't seem to even make newer cellphones with the features I have >>> for vehicle integration... >> e1 >> Out of interest, what features would those be?  > L > Higher power in the vehicle than when used portably.  Handsfree microphoneM > mounted in the car (yes, I had it reinstalled when I changed vehicles a few=H > years ago), two slots for charging batteries in the vehicle.  OptionalN > beeping of the horn when the phone rings (ok, not useful in urban areas :-).L > Handset by the driver, portable unit in the (relatively more secure) trunkJ > (boot, to you).  Automatic switching to the vehicle antenna when plugged > into the vehicle.   F If I go back 3-5 years ago, a friend from the US used to visit us hereI several times a year, and would always get me to demonstrate my cellphone-I to his US colleagues. Compact enough to fit into my shirt pocket, it onlyeI needs a recharge every 5 days at worst. The US guys were always impressedeG at its small size and what it could do. Today's models are much smallerlB (too small?), and with more functionality. For reference, mine's a Nokia 6110, 5 years old - GSM.  H On the car front, I have a cellphone holder, mounted to the right of theF radio/CD player, a reasonably easy 45 degree reach with my right hand,F but nicely out of the way of the rest of the instruments and switches.E It has power and antenna connections, and a microphone mounted at eye B level on the left windscreen (windshield to you:-)) / door pillar.< When the phone is activated, the radio automatically mutes.    A And then there is SMS, with a good variety of services available.oI If I want, I can use it for monitoring stock prices or weather forecasts, G but a more common use for me is looking up train timetables, or sendingpD myself a message from one of the systems I look after when a problem occurs.   $ SMS is apparently big business. See:  2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/30840.html  B If you do decide to upgrade, I would recommend waiting for digitalE phones to become established in your area, and probably wait a littlep  longer for the prices to settle.   -- o
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.286 ************************esses and masks of the systems involved.E - the telnet sessions are between the two VMS systems or is/are other  system(s) used as well? E - This suddenly started; say one