1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 25 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 287       Contents: Re: "very" dynamic libraryG Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...") G Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...") G Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...") G Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...") G Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...") = Re: AS255 models (was: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem) = Re: AS255 models (was: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem)  DEC Line and Page Standards... Re: Dynamic Load Balaner Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 Re: HP NAS Head and RMS Files . Re: Looking up DECnet addresses from Node name* Re: New [to me] error showing in errorlog.* RE: New [to me] error showing in errorlog. Re: next VMS versions  Re: next VMS versions  Re: next VMS versions 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits  Re: Overclocking VAXen Re: Overclocking VAXen Re: Overclocking VAXen& Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ? Re: Structure Layout in C 2 Re: ZLE data synchronise with different line speed? Re: [Q] QIO programming with MOP remote console with DECservers   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:56:00 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) # Subject: Re: "very" dynamic library 1 Message-ID: <QVYza.1451$2T4.707@news.cpqcorp.net>   i In article <baa6a3$fj2$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>, Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> writes:   I :My colleague asked me about feature similar to (or even identical) UNIX  G :dlopen on VMS. He needs to use in software libraries that isn't known   :during linking.  D   Others have already pointed to the lib$find_image_symbol RTL call D   and at the availability of the dlopen() call within recent OpenVMS   C libraries.  E   In addition, please look at the OpenVMS C documentation for details G   on the C backport library, which you can build with and can use newer B   RTL calls while compiling and linking your application on older D   OpenVMS releases.  Details on the backport library are included inE   the C manual, and are available with C V5.6 and later.  (I mention  B   this as it would appear you are operating with an older OpenVMS 5   release, or you would not have asked the question.)   @   For details on creating and using shareable images, please seeA   the pointers in the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) -- 8   the shareable image is the most common target for the    lib$find_image_symbol call.   F   For general C coding information for OpenVMS, please see the OpenVMSE   FAQ.  For more advanced coding information and pointers, please see F   the Ask The Wizard (ATW) topics including (1661) and its references,E   and the OpenVMS C documentation (available on-line) and the OpenVMS D   Programming Concepts Manual (also available on-line).  The OpenVMSD   FAQ has pointers to ATW and to the various manuals, and referencesF   the back-port library.  I'll add the reference to dlopen to the next>   FAQ edition, as variations of this question arise regularly.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:22:08 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")I Message-ID: <kLOza.251218$w7k.33166@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3ECF88B0.A30950C0@fsi.net...  > David Mathog wrote:  > > $ > > On Fri, 16 May 2003 13:56:46 GMT( > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > > ! > > > And a good .edu policy too.  > > > @ > > > If I were a big VMS shop, I'd call my local university and	 arrange a D > > > meeting between the dean of CompSci and/or Electrical/ComputerD > > > Engineering and the most senior HP person I could lay my hands on andD > > > tell them both that I wanted HP to donate gear and VMS to that school, : > > > and tell the dean that I'd hire either on a co-op or part-time/fullE > > > time basis any students they could ship my way who had hands-on  VMS  > > > experience.  > >  > > With the result that...  > > A > > The CompSci Dean tells you that they do serious academic work F > > in his/her department and that you should call DeVry or some other? > > "trade school" (barely disguised sneer) if you want to find E > > somebody who knows how to run a VMS system.  However, he/she will B > > be happy to take your money to fund a new "Your Company's Name7 > > Here" Professor of CompSci.  You decline the offer.  > > = > > The most senior HP person that will take your call denies A > > the existence of VMS as an HP product.  When pressed he calls A > > back days later and admits that VMS exists but tells you that > > > HP Innovation policy precludes him from spending any moneyE > > whatsoever promoting that product.  You offer to buy the machines 8 > > for the University yourself.  He doesn't know how to> > > sell them to you and refers you to a humongous and equally= > > disinterested "Partner".  You swear that you'll never buy , > > a machine from anybody but Island again. > > C > > You place an ad in the campus newspaper:  "Intern at my company B > > and learn VMS".  None of the students call but a couple of out6 > > of work alumni who graduated in the early 80's do. > > 9 > > You hire the alums and three foreign workers with VMS , > > experience named Singh, Patra and Raman. > E > The scenario David Mathog decsribes is the way things will be until  someF > of us band together and take VMS matters into our own hands. Now, weE > *CAN* do this without ruffling HP's feathers by becoming a reseller E > and/or Partner/VAR; so, don't go giving a bunch of crap about that.  HPB > is still a business. You order stuff from them - especially high marginD > stuff like VMS and related hardware - and they're gonna sell it to you,E > perhaps grudgingly, but they will sell it. We may need to negotiate  the F > relationship such that no "unreasonable" restrictions will be placed onE > our efforts to put money in their pockets. Sad that we even need to C > consider that, but that's how it is - so be it. It'll be up to us  thenB > to do our own advertising and other marketing, and they won't be able to  > say spit about it. > C > The hard part will not be technical, it will be social - and that D > stretches most of out of our comfort zones. We're techies. We deal withC > the machine: it does what we tell it to, regardless of whether or  not A > what we "said" is what we meant. We'll have to court investors,  partner C > with others and face prospective customers. That's not what we're  bestD > at, but it's where we'll need to be until we can afford to hire it out 2 > to professional sales critters, financiers, etc. > F > Who's with me? ...especially folks whose sig.'s say they are looking for D > VMS work...? The best way - and the most we can do - to secure our@ > future is to take our employment situation into our own hands. > F > Got the balls for it? How to de-mung the reply-to should be obvious.D > Let's take this off-line, o.k.? When I send you an off-line reply,> > you'll have my "real" e-mail address and it won't be munged.     David,  E Check with your local HP guys in charge of reseller/partner relations F and see how much capital and how many years doing business in the sameC location they want you to have before they'll even sit down to talk + with you about being an Alpha/VMS reseller.   @ I'll bet that the cost of entry into that club will be orders ofF magnitude higher than they make PeeCee resellers require. And I'll betF the hypothetical rationale they'd give for that is "We can't have just> anybody sell Alpha's and VMS, so we'd rather just not sell it.C Besides, we really don't want to expand that market because is cuts ' into the 'rebates' Microsoft gives us."    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 15:19:01 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")' Message-ID: <3ECFD3B5.7A9985E6@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3ECF88B0.A30950C0@fsi.net...  > > David Mathog wrote:  > > > & > > > On Fri, 16 May 2003 13:56:46 GMT* > > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > > > # > > > > And a good .edu policy too.  > > > > B > > > > If I were a big VMS shop, I'd call my local university and > arrange a F > > > > meeting between the dean of CompSci and/or Electrical/ComputerF > > > > Engineering and the most senior HP person I could lay my hands > on andF > > > > tell them both that I wanted HP to donate gear and VMS to that	 > school, < > > > > and tell the dean that I'd hire either on a co-op or > part-time/fullG > > > > time basis any students they could ship my way who had hands-on  > VMS  > > > > experience.  > > >  > > > With the result that...  > > > C > > > The CompSci Dean tells you that they do serious academic work H > > > in his/her department and that you should call DeVry or some otherA > > > "trade school" (barely disguised sneer) if you want to find G > > > somebody who knows how to run a VMS system.  However, he/she will D > > > be happy to take your money to fund a new "Your Company's Name9 > > > Here" Professor of CompSci.  You decline the offer.  > > > ? > > > The most senior HP person that will take your call denies C > > > the existence of VMS as an HP product.  When pressed he calls C > > > back days later and admits that VMS exists but tells you that @ > > > HP Innovation policy precludes him from spending any moneyG > > > whatsoever promoting that product.  You offer to buy the machines : > > > for the University yourself.  He doesn't know how to@ > > > sell them to you and refers you to a humongous and equally? > > > disinterested "Partner".  You swear that you'll never buy . > > > a machine from anybody but Island again. > > > E > > > You place an ad in the campus newspaper:  "Intern at my company D > > > and learn VMS".  None of the students call but a couple of out8 > > > of work alumni who graduated in the early 80's do. > > > ; > > > You hire the alums and three foreign workers with VMS . > > > experience named Singh, Patra and Raman. > > G > > The scenario David Mathog decsribes is the way things will be until  > someH > > of us band together and take VMS matters into our own hands. Now, weG > > *CAN* do this without ruffling HP's feathers by becoming a reseller G > > and/or Partner/VAR; so, don't go giving a bunch of crap about that.  > HPD > > is still a business. You order stuff from them - especially high > marginF > > stuff like VMS and related hardware - and they're gonna sell it to > you,G > > perhaps grudgingly, but they will sell it. We may need to negotiate  > the H > > relationship such that no "unreasonable" restrictions will be placed > onG > > our efforts to put money in their pockets. Sad that we even need to E > > consider that, but that's how it is - so be it. It'll be up to us  > thenD > > to do our own advertising and other marketing, and they won't be	 > able to  > > say spit about it. > > E > > The hard part will not be technical, it will be social - and that F > > stretches most of out of our comfort zones. We're techies. We deal > withE > > the machine: it does what we tell it to, regardless of whether or  > not C > > what we "said" is what we meant. We'll have to court investors, 	 > partner E > > with others and face prospective customers. That's not what we're  > bestF > > at, but it's where we'll need to be until we can afford to hire it > out 4 > > to professional sales critters, financiers, etc. > > H > > Who's with me? ...especially folks whose sig.'s say they are looking > for F > > VMS work...? The best way - and the most we can do - to secure ourB > > future is to take our employment situation into our own hands. > > H > > Got the balls for it? How to de-mung the reply-to should be obvious.F > > Let's take this off-line, o.k.? When I send you an off-line reply,@ > > you'll have my "real" e-mail address and it won't be munged. >  > David, > G > Check with your local HP guys in charge of reseller/partner relations H > and see how much capital and how many years doing business in the sameE > location they want you to have before they'll even sit down to talk - > with you about being an Alpha/VMS reseller.   B Ah - the old "can't get experience if no on will hire you" type of chicken-and-egg problem...  C Seems to me a poster here recently signed up for the ISV program at F fairly nominal cost in a matter of days. May be a change to get a foot- in the door that way. Take your blinders off.   B > I'll bet that the cost of entry into that club will be orders ofH > magnitude higher than they make PeeCee resellers require. And I'll betH > the hypothetical rationale they'd give for that is "We can't have just@ > anybody sell Alpha's and VMS, so we'd rather just not sell it.  4 Excellent strategy for enhancing share-holder value.  E > Besides, we really don't want to expand that market because is cuts ) > into the 'rebates' Microsoft gives us."   A Well, a "rebate" is essentially a "refund" of money already paid, D sometimes offered in advance as a discount. No real profit potential1 there other than an artificially enhanced margin.   C Kinda like Gallagher's remark that (people) "... can save ... money H buyin' stuff. You got nothin' in the bank, but you're ahead $thousands!"   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 19:18:33 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")) Message-ID: <3ECFFDB7.FC26164B@istop.com>   / Re: high cost of entry to become a VAR/reseller   L Interesting comment. The owner/manager of teh cemetary I visited told me theM exact same thing.  He said that about 10-12 years ago, he had tried to become N a real reseller, but Digital had put so many sticks in his wheels that he gave3 up. His comment: why it so hard to sell your gear ?   K The irony is that perhaps now, as a cemetary of retired gear, he might sell < more DEC hardware then if he had been a "official" reseller.  I I tried to go to their wharehouse last friday, only to find, after having M travelled across the city, that it was closed that day :-) But I intend to go L this week and see how much "decent" gear he may have there. I could see suchI cemetaries becoming really good suppliers of cheap VMS comptible gear for M hobbysists and perhaps *we* could styart to market that gear and the hobbyist - programme to raise the interest level in VMS.   H The more hobbyists there are, the more HP will have bad image if/when it cancels VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:29:02 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")I Message-ID: <y%Uza.252733$w7k.25838@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3ECFFDB7.FC26164B@istop.com... 1 > Re: high cost of entry to become a VAR/reseller  > B > Interesting comment. The owner/manager of teh cemetary I visited told me the E > exact same thing.  He said that about 10-12 years ago, he had tried 	 to become C > a real reseller, but Digital had put so many sticks in his wheels  that he gave5 > up. His comment: why it so hard to sell your gear ?  > B > The irony is that perhaps now, as a cemetary of retired gear, he
 might sell> > more DEC hardware then if he had been a "official" reseller. > D > I tried to go to their wharehouse last friday, only to find, after havingB > travelled across the city, that it was closed that day :-) But I intend to goE > this week and see how much "decent" gear he may have there. I could  see suchB > cemetaries becoming really good suppliers of cheap VMS comptible gear forF > hobbysists and perhaps *we* could styart to market that gear and the hobbyist/ > programme to raise the interest level in VMS.  > ? > The more hobbyists there are, the more HP will have bad image 
 if/when it > cancels VMS.     JF, D HP seems to have a NIH (not invented here) attitude towards anything5 that could expand the market of paying VMS customers.   D Maybe Gorham desperately wants to expand the VMS market and is beingE stymied, or maybe he's part of the problem (not to single Gorham out, 1 for there may be others for/against the premise).   @ As any sane person recognizes, the longer VMS isn't actively andD widely advertised and marketed, the less likely it will survive as aD viable option for any user except those with bottomless, practicallyC unaccountable pockets, and in my estimation that narrows it down to > about 2 customers world-wide....NSA and GCHQ. They alone could? probably pay the entire cost of keeping OVMS Engineering up and  running ad infinitum.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:35:43 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")J Message-ID: <P5Vza.252774$w7k.222580@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3ECFD3B5.7A9985E6@fsi.net...  > John Smith wrote:  > > @ > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% > > news:3ECF88B0.A30950C0@fsi.net...  > > > David Mathog wrote:  > > > > ( > > > > On Fri, 16 May 2003 13:56:46 GMT, > > > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > > > > % > > > > > And a good .edu policy too. 	 > > > > > D > > > > > If I were a big VMS shop, I'd call my local university and
 > > arrange a 4 > > > > > meeting between the dean of CompSci and/or Electrical/Computer B > > > > > Engineering and the most senior HP person I could lay my hands 
 > > on andC > > > > > tell them both that I wanted HP to donate gear and VMS to  that > > school, > > > > > > and tell the dean that I'd hire either on a co-op or > > part-time/full@ > > > > > time basis any students they could ship my way who had hands-on > > VMS  > > > > > experience.  > > > >  > > > > With the result that...  > > > > E > > > > The CompSci Dean tells you that they do serious academic work D > > > > in his/her department and that you should call DeVry or some other C > > > > "trade school" (barely disguised sneer) if you want to find D > > > > somebody who knows how to run a VMS system.  However, he/she willF > > > > be happy to take your money to fund a new "Your Company's Name; > > > > Here" Professor of CompSci.  You decline the offer.  > > > > A > > > > The most senior HP person that will take your call denies E > > > > the existence of VMS as an HP product.  When pressed he calls E > > > > back days later and admits that VMS exists but tells you that B > > > > HP Innovation policy precludes him from spending any money@ > > > > whatsoever promoting that product.  You offer to buy the machines< > > > > for the University yourself.  He doesn't know how toB > > > > sell them to you and refers you to a humongous and equallyA > > > > disinterested "Partner".  You swear that you'll never buy 0 > > > > a machine from anybody but Island again. > > > > ? > > > > You place an ad in the campus newspaper:  "Intern at my  company F > > > > and learn VMS".  None of the students call but a couple of out: > > > > of work alumni who graduated in the early 80's do. > > > > = > > > > You hire the alums and three foreign workers with VMS 0 > > > > experience named Singh, Patra and Raman. > > > C > > > The scenario David Mathog decsribes is the way things will be  until  > > someB > > > of us band together and take VMS matters into our own hands. Now, we @ > > > *CAN* do this without ruffling HP's feathers by becoming a resellerC > > > and/or Partner/VAR; so, don't go giving a bunch of crap about  that.  > > HPF > > > is still a business. You order stuff from them - especially high
 > > marginE > > > stuff like VMS and related hardware - and they're gonna sell it  to > > you,? > > > perhaps grudgingly, but they will sell it. We may need to 	 negotiate  > > the C > > > relationship such that no "unreasonable" restrictions will be  placed > > onF > > > our efforts to put money in their pockets. Sad that we even need toD > > > consider that, but that's how it is - so be it. It'll be up to us > > thenF > > > to do our own advertising and other marketing, and they won't be > > able to  > > > say spit about it. > > > B > > > The hard part will not be technical, it will be social - and thatC > > > stretches most of out of our comfort zones. We're techies. We  deal > > withD > > > the machine: it does what we tell it to, regardless of whether or > > not E > > > what we "said" is what we meant. We'll have to court investors,  > > partner A > > > with others and face prospective customers. That's not what  we're  > > bestE > > > at, but it's where we'll need to be until we can afford to hire  it > > out 6 > > > to professional sales critters, financiers, etc. > > > B > > > Who's with me? ...especially folks whose sig.'s say they are looking  > > for D > > > VMS work...? The best way - and the most we can do - to secure our D > > > future is to take our employment situation into our own hands. > > > A > > > Got the balls for it? How to de-mung the reply-to should be  obvious.A > > > Let's take this off-line, o.k.? When I send you an off-line  reply,B > > > you'll have my "real" e-mail address and it won't be munged. > > 
 > > David, > > ? > > Check with your local HP guys in charge of reseller/partner 	 relations E > > and see how much capital and how many years doing business in the  sameB > > location they want you to have before they'll even sit down to talk/ > > with you about being an Alpha/VMS reseller.  > D > Ah - the old "can't get experience if no on will hire you" type of > chicken-and-egg problem... > E > Seems to me a poster here recently signed up for the ISV program at C > fairly nominal cost in a matter of days. May be a change to get a  foot/ > in the door that way. Take your blinders off.  > D > > I'll bet that the cost of entry into that club will be orders ofF > > magnitude higher than they make PeeCee resellers require. And I'll bet E > > the hypothetical rationale they'd give for that is "We can't have  justB > > anybody sell Alpha's and VMS, so we'd rather just not sell it. > 6 > Excellent strategy for enhancing share-holder value. > B > > Besides, we really don't want to expand that market because is cuts+ > > into the 'rebates' Microsoft gives us."  > C > Well, a "rebate" is essentially a "refund" of money already paid, F > sometimes offered in advance as a discount. No real profit potential3 > there other than an artificially enhanced margin.  > E > Kinda like Gallagher's remark that (people) "... can save ... money = > buyin' stuff. You got nothin' in the bank, but you're ahead  $thousands!"     David,    F Write Gorham asking for assistance in getting HP to make the 'group' a> reseller/etc... once you have a reasonable number of favorable responses toC your message above. If you don't get help from somebody at Gorham's  level > (even if it is to simply point you to a sympathetic ear in theF channel/reseller partners group), then you'll know for certain that HP ain't " interested in selling VMS anymore.  @ Q. Do you currently have enough confidence in HP's direction and
 commitmentF to VMS to devote the number of non-billable hours you/others will have toE invest in this in hope of eventually having enough profits from sales  toA justify the exercise? Recall that you have to eat in the interim.   A And don't forget that to be listed as an approved vendor for many 
 categoriesA of customer, ie. gov't, .edu, and even some commercial customers,  they'll A want to see some business history, financials, and god knows what  else.    John   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 04:47:57 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) F Subject: Re: AS255 models (was: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem)2 Message-ID: <1WXza.1446$2T4.1319@news.cpqcorp.net>  e In article <3EC00882.B9735D00@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:  :Alan Boyles wrote:   O :> I have just received 2 AlphaStations (a 255/400 and a 255/500) and am having  :> some problems. ...   :   [power-up followed by a power-down after a second or so]  H :What is an AlphaStation 255/400?  I thought the AlphaStation 255 family :maxed out at 300MHz.   F   Chris is correct.  The AlphaStation 255 models are the EV4-series atD   233 MHz and again at 300 MHz.  There are no 255/400 and no 255/500I   series systems in the series -- I would *GUESS* that his is a reference J   to the AlphaStation 500 series models, and specifically the AlphaStationI   500 5/400 and AlphaStation 500 5/500, as the boxes are visually similar    and the MHz ratings match.  I   As for the immediate shutdown, I would check the diagnostic displays on I   the systems, if these are available on the console line or the graphics L   display -- any beep codes?  Any errors?  Are the fans spinning?  ImmediateI   shutdowns are usually power or fan problems, or core hardware faults.   F   Do you have the proper giblets in the box, including memory and PCI?  G   These boxes could certainly have been stripped in similar fashion, of    course.     K   It is also possible to get a diagnostic display connected directly to the I   motherboard of an AlphaStation 500 series -- but then I am also getting 4   rather far ahead in the troubleshooting here, too.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:19:35 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.orgF Subject: Re: AS255 models (was: AlphaStation 255/500 power up problem)) Message-ID: <03052500193510@antinode.org>   # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)    > [...] M >   It is also possible to get a diagnostic display connected directly to the K >   motherboard of an AlphaStation 500 series -- but then I am also getting 6 >   rather far ahead in the troubleshooting here, too.  H    How about for an XP1000?  I'm ready for this stage troubleshooting my	 dead one.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 11:23:38 -0700) From: munroe@csworks.com (Richard Munroe) ' Subject: DEC Line and Page Standards... < Message-ID: <8d09fa7.0305241023.18286835@posting.google.com>  E Back before I blew out of DEC (this was quite a while back now, 1980) B there was a line and page format programming standard.  If I had aD copy when I left, it's been discarded in the many moves and floods. F Anybody out there have a copy?  Either hard or machine readable?  I'llE pay for shipping for the hard copy.  Machine readable you can send to  my address as an attachment.   TIA    Dick Munroe    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:45:55 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ! Subject: Re: Dynamic Load Balaner 1 Message-ID: <nMYza.1450$2T4.762@news.cpqcorp.net>   V In article <3EC8454D.5090302@uindy.edu>, Cindy Steinmetz <steinmetz@uindy.edu> writes:  H :Does anyone know if the VMS tuning product Dynamic Load Balancer (once G :sold by Touch Technologies) is still around somewhere and if so how I   :contact the current vendor?  C   Touch Technologies is around and Google immediately finds various A   product webpages, but -- that said -- I'd initially tend to use A   periodic AUTOGEN passes with FEEDBACK -- both periodically, and    after the load has changed.   E   The efficacy of Dynamic Load Balancing was a subject of some debate F   in the community when it was originally available, IIRC -- there areE   and there were benefits and problems with the approach, of course.  D   You might have the perfect fit, or you might have something better   handled by AUTOGEN.   F   This tuning area is a moving target, of course.  XFC, for instance, F   as caused various similar products consternation, as it occupies andC   -- as required -- releases memory.  System tuning and monitoring  E   products have become confused by this, assuming that system memory  E   was overloaded.  (It has been a few years since I've looked at DLB  D   (now DLB-Plus), and I expect that it has improved -- and I do not B   know that DLB was affected by XFC memory use patterns.)  Again, ?   system performance tuning is and will remain a moving target.   E   System reboots are performed after the AUTOGEN (FEEDBACK), at least A   until after the system load has sufficiently stabilized. If the C   load changes -- suddenly or gradually, due to application changes D   or OpenVMS changes such as XFC -- you will have to revisit AUTOGEN   tuning and performance.   F   Depending on the particular requirement, the class scheduler supportE   within OpenVMS and OpenVMS Galaxy can offer alternative approaches.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:29:25 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) % Subject: Re: Firewall for VMS / TRU64 2 Message-ID: <VwYza.1449$2T4.1304@news.cpqcorp.net>  k In article <5ed44bd3.0305150051.6b0cadb1@posting.google.com>, paul_hallam@hotmail.com (Paul Hallam) writes: E :Does anyone know of any current supported firewall software for VMS.   H   Why would you put a general-purpose system out front?  (If you believeG   this is a good idea, well, you are signing up for the effort involved D   in locking down, auditing and maintaining the system -- this is a    non-trivial effort.)  I   I know how to secure an OpenVMS system, and I would not want to have to F   do this and to track this and to track and respond to the ubiquitousF   incoming attacks -- any systems that are locked down and are exposed/   to attack are an on-going maintenance effort.   I   As I've recommended elsewhere, a purpose-built firewall is a far better F   approach than any attempt to use a general-purpose operating system.H   (This includes Linux or other systems which have versions of firewallsB   embedded within or available for the operating system, as well.)  G   Why?  Because no matter how good the embedded firewall, it takes just F   one configuration mistake or one missed patch or one software error,A   and your general-purpose server is compromised.   Purpose-built G   firewalls are rather simpler to test, configure, audit, and maintain.   E   I would certainly then lock down OpenVMS behind the firewall -- and G   there are additional passive network scanners which can and often are C   used behind the firewalls, silently seeking and reporting unusual0G   internal network traffic patterns.  This as part of defense in depth,fE   and particularly in defending against outgoing attacks originating A/   from systems located behind your firewall(s).o  K : I get the impression that Compaq/HP aren't interested in resurrecting it..  F   The maintenance of a firewall is a large and specialized engineeringF   project, and purpose-built dedicated (and commodity) firewall serverD   appliance boxes provide a highly economical and effective solutionG   here -- given this, I see no particular business case here.  In othereH   words you are correct -- at present, OpenVMS Engineering does not haveF   any plans to restart the DIGITAL SecurityGate firewall (DECnet), norH   to restart the engineering on the (unreleased) IP SecurityGate project   for OpenVMS.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:45:45 -0400r* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>& Subject: Re: HP NAS Head and RMS Files/ Message-ID: <3ED01239.15822.128D6639@localhost>   ' On 24 May 2003 at 4:35, Hal Kuff wrote:aG >    Has anyone tried NFS shares to support RMS index or journal files?   D Yes.  You need to specify /ADF=CREATE on the UCX MOUNT command.  It B will then create a file called .$ADF$<filename> on the NFS server 7 which holds the VMS file characteristics.  Works slick.i  
 --Stan Quaylee Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671e1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:10:28 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)c7 Subject: Re: Looking up DECnet addresses from Node nameT1 Message-ID: <8fYza.1447$2T4.945@news.cpqcorp.net>1  u In article <68cfa44d.0305181745.55a6f26f@posting.google.com>, Hiroyuki_Tanaka4@excite.co.jp (Hiroyuki Tanaka) writes:e  D :Is there anything wrong with just reading this information from theF :sys$system:NETNODE_REMOTE.DAT file?  This file appears to contain theE :data I need.  Can I just read shared, readonly without any problems.e     Any problems?  No.  C   You assume the data is in this file, of course.  It might not be.sE   It might be in the volatile database, or it might be over in LANCP, E   or it mught be in the DECnet-Plus analog to this file.  Or the file '   format might not be as you expect it.   E   Direct access to internal and undocumented OpenVMS data structures  G   and undocumented OpenVMS data files is not generally recommended, and E   has historically introduced instability and errors into application C   code -- internal interfaces and (undocumented) direct file access A   operations are not things you will want to utilize in code thatiB   must be reliable, particularly if you can avoid the undocumented   usage.  D   Were you to use documented and supported interfaces to ask DECnet B   to translate the name to an address, this would not be an issue,   of course.  &   One related example is available at:  E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/srh_examples/nice.cr  F   The NICE interface is arguably fully documented and supported, as itG   is included as part of the DECnet Architecture manuals -- not as parteF   of the OpenVMS documentation set.  (See the OpenVMS FAQ for pointersE   to these, and particularly to the DECnet maintenance and operationse
   manual.)  E   In the same area of the Freeware is an NFB*.* example, showing some-D   undocumented and unsupported details of the DECnet $qio interface.C   (This NFB API is used through various chunks of OpenVMS, but was mD   never officially documented anywere -- save for its use to declare   a DECnet object.)o  F   Both NICE and NFB avoid knowing details of the internals of a DECnetF   data file, and I'd choose NICE first and then NFB -- but regardless,D   I'd NOT code knowledge of an OpenVMS data file into my application.   if I have any other better choice available.  G   You will already realize that the terminal server does not use DECnetdD   protocol for network communications, of course.  Most of the olderH   DECserver series terminal servers are downloaded and are managed usingG   the MOP protocol, using information stored in LANCP or in the DECnet  D   database.  But DECnet itself is not necessarily involved in these F   communications, and DECnet is not involved in the networking for the   user sessions.  E   Details on MOP are in the DECnet architecture manuals, and I postedoF   out a closely related message on using NML$LOG for debugging earlierG   today, as part of another thread.  Google should be able to find thatiG   quite easily, obviously.  (Two very similar questions -- is this someu%   sort of college coding project? :-)   G   Off the top, I do not recall if LANCP has an API for its database, orcF   if the API or the database is documented.  (I'd tend to assume not.)H   LANCP is available in OpenVMS V6.2 and later, and can entirely replaceI   the use of DECnet for all MOP download operations as well as for remote    console operations.)  H   The other thread will mention TSM, which is the other approach.  A TSM+   kit is available on the OpenVMS Freeware.u  6     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/tsm/  E   TSM works with many of the DECserver terminal servers, but not all.c  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 23:14:26 +0100o* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>3 Subject: Re: New [to me] error showing in errorlog. 5 Message-ID: <baorkn$1vuak$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>   6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:OJzBTdug46nR@elias.decus.ch...uJ > In article <Nqbza.11924$AS6.158711@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at# (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:dI > > In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA685456A@tahiti.tinuk.com>,w/ "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:tB > >>I see the following in an output file from a DIAGNOSE command; > >h+ > > What DECevent version ? V3.4 or older ?l* > > What hardware ? Too new for DECevent ? > >  >c, > Here's what I found in our kits directory: >.? > DIAA033.A;1             3744/3744     27-JUN-2000 08:42:31.32e? > DIAA033.B;1             9324/9324     27-JUN-2000 08:42:47.76 ? > DIAA033.C;1            20502/20502    27-JUN-2000 08:43:29.52t? > DIAA033.D;1            33516/33516    27-JUN-2000 08:45:02.11 ? > DIAA034.A;1             4914/4914     13-JUN-2002 15:14:25.67S? > DIAA034.B;1             9360/9360     13-JUN-2002 15:14:51.52 ? > DIAA034.C;1            20718/20718    13-JUN-2002 15:15:50.09n? > DIAA034.D;1            33570/33570    13-JUN-2002 15:18:52.19i > 9 > So 3.3 is definitely too old for the harware concerned.l >a% I said before, and I'll say it again.rF An ES40 is EV6, (or EV6/7) *therefore* you *MUST_HAVE* Compaq Analyse.4 DECevent *CANNOT* cut the mustard with this machine.H The *ONLY* EV6 machine that DECevent supports is the GS60/GS140, and theL only reason for that is that all of the I/O support for this machine already9 exists in DECevent courtesy of the Alphaserver 8200/8400.h  K I *know* this to be correct, I used to work for the UK Alphaserver hardwarei3 support until they made me redundant last November.lJ For an ES40, the only thing DECevent is useful for is errors from good old fashioned SCSI disks.t$ Everything else, use Compaq Analyse.   -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.netb http://www.travell.uk.net/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 13/05/2003l   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 23:41:59 +0100u- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>a3 Subject: RE: New [to me] error showing in errorlog.oE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA6854573@tahiti.tinuk.com>o  E Yes, thanks. This is the sort of thing I should know, but it's one ofl6 the things I miss because I just can't keep up now...!   Cheers   Steve Ss   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: John Travell [mailto:john@travell.uk.net]=20 > Sent: 24 May 2003 23:14n > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms5 > Subject: Re: New [to me] error showing in errorlog.  >=20 >=20 >=20; > "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message=20 % > news:OJzBTdug46nR@elias.decus.ch...n: > > In article <Nqbza.11924$AS6.158711@news.chello.at>,=20 > > peter@langstoeger.at% > (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:t > > > In article=20e@ > > > <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA685456A@tahiti.tinuk.com>,1 > "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:iD > > >>I see the following in an output file from a DIAGNOSE command; > > > - > > > What DECevent version ? V3.4 or older ? , > > > What hardware ? Too new for DECevent ? > > >w > > . > > Here's what I found in our kits directory: > >aA > > DIAA033.A;1             3744/3744     27-JUN-2000 08:42:31.32aA > > DIAA033.B;1             9324/9324     27-JUN-2000 08:42:47.76lA > > DIAA033.C;1            20502/20502    27-JUN-2000 08:43:29.52oA > > DIAA033.D;1            33516/33516    27-JUN-2000 08:45:02.11 A > > DIAA034.A;1             4914/4914     13-JUN-2002 15:14:25.67bA > > DIAA034.B;1             9360/9360     13-JUN-2002 15:14:51.52 A > > DIAA034.C;1            20718/20718    13-JUN-2002 15:15:50.09 A > > DIAA034.D;1            33570/33570    13-JUN-2002 15:18:52.19r > > ; > > So 3.3 is definitely too old for the harware concerned.o > >h' > I said before, and I'll say it again.dB > An ES40 is EV6, (or EV6/7) *therefore* you *MUST_HAVE* Compaq=20B > Analyse. DECevent *CANNOT* cut the mustard with this machine.=209 > The *ONLY* EV6 machine that DECevent supports is the=20 @ > GS60/GS140, and the only reason for that is that all of the=20< > I/O support for this machine already exists in DECevent=20( > courtesy of the Alphaserver 8200/8400. >=20; > I *know* this to be correct, I used to work for the UK=20l> > Alphaserver hardware support until they made me redundant=20B > last November. For an ES40, the only thing DECevent is useful=20A > for is errors from good old fashioned SCSI disks. Everything=20t > else, use Compaq Analyse.  >=20 > -- > John Travell" > VMS crashdump expertise for hire > john@travell.uk.netw > http://www.travell.uk.net/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---y( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C > Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 13/05/2003  >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 04:35:01 GMTn# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)n Subject: Re: next VMS versions/ Message-ID: <VJXza.1445$2T4.3@news.cpqcorp.net>e  w In article <01KVSW3ZNJ2MAKVGCS@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:tF :> I haven't looked at the VAX side of things for quite some time, butE :> I'm on Alpha 7.3-1 at both home and work (some systems still to be 
 :> upgraded).n :.G :Right.  I guess my question is, should I move from 7.2-1 to 7.3-1, or SJ :wait until 7.3-2 (presumably the last alpha-only version)?  What will be I :the last "VAX-only" version?  Is there 7.3 VAX?  7.3-1?  7.3-2?  (IIRC, a& :there was no 7.2-1 for VAX, just 7.2)  F   OpenVMS V7.3-1 would be my choice, simply due to the I/O performance&   improvements within the file system.  H   As for release schedules and plans, please review the OpenVMS roadmapsI   that are available at the OpenVMS website -- the OpenVMS FAQ references G   these roadmaps, as well -- this question arises with some regularity.iD   (Much of what you have assumed around the OpenVMS release plans isF   wrong, BTW.)  The usual answer is driven either by the support plansG   or by the features.  For support plans see, the Prior Version SupporttF   (PVS) information at the PVS website.  For the features listings forD   the OpenVMS releases, see the OpenVMS New Features documentation.)  E   As others have stated, the dash and hardware releases are currently H   creatures of OpenVMS Alpha and I would expect to see dash and hardwareG   releases over on OpenVMS I64.  As VAX hardware is not a moving targetMG   and as the OpenVMS VAX software platform base is explicitly targetinguG   user- and kernel-mode stability, there are fewer OpenVMS VAX releases H   needed and thus fewer available.  OpenVMS VAX releases paralleling theJ   OpenVMS Alpha "dot" releases are the norm.  Both Alpha and I64 platformsI   and the associated platform support are most definitely moving targets.h  F   Upcoming OpenVMS VAX, OpenVMS Alpha, and OpenVMS I64 releases shouldG   all be listed in the roadmap -- the jump to V8.x releases starts withoF   the I64 codebase for the early releases (V8.0, V8.1), and the first D   production release for both OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS I64 is V8.2.  F   Donno off-hand what the next release of OpenVMS VAX will be assignedF   as its release number (there were various discussions around the VAXH   version number assignment that would ship in parallel with the OpenVMSF   Alpha V7.0 release, for instance -- V6.3 was one of the suggestions)E   but various folks are off working on some OpenVMS VAX system buildsmG   right now.  (I do need to research this particular VAX version detailtG   myself as part of preparing for my next roadtrip -- yes, I'm going toSH   be allowed out of my cave :-) -- but I and the other OpenVMS engineersF   have all been exceedingly busy of late.)  Past empirical evidence isG   such that OpenVMS release version numbers can be changed very shortly H   before the release ships -- I and others can certainly relate examples   in this area.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:04:42 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: next VMS versions/ Message-ID: <3ED016AA.20737.129EBE33@localhost>:  + On 25 May 2003 at 4:35, Hoff Hoffman wrote:"H >   Donno off-hand what the next release of OpenVMS VAX will be assigned >   as its release numbero  D The roadmap, as recently as 3 weeks ago, shows the VAX version will D be 8.2, released at the same time as the Alpha and IA64 8.2 release.  + You're going to be *extra* busy that month!s  
 --Stan Quaylel Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147i= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:26:42 -0400l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: next VMS versions) Message-ID: <3ED053E6.BB5E8E48@istop.com>    "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:E > The roadmap, as recently as 3 weeks ago, shows the VAX version williF > be 8.2, released at the same time as the Alpha and IA64 8.2 release. > - > You're going to be *extra* busy that month!a  J Not if they simply take 7.2 and rebadge it as "8.2". Consider that VAX-VMSN doesn't get all of the improvements/changes/additions that Alpha  gets, and my@ impression is that the role of VMS engineers is simply to ensureO interoperability of non-evolving VAX software with the evolving Alpha software.i  H We don't have CDE, ODS-5, SYSMAN IO CONFIGURE, all the alpha features of
 SDA/CLUE etc.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 14:32:44 -0400B* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)) Message-ID: <3ECFBACB.8B6B1283@istop.com>    Rob Young wrote:K >         a game.  Almost every internal featured of NT 1.0 was lifted from J >         VMS.  Don't debate me, trot some of what Russonivich or Hanrahan$ >         wrote and pick it a part.   1 Again. An OS is made of more than just internals.h  E Also, I haven't seen your answer. Does NT use 4 modes ? kernel, exec,r supervisor, user ??????o    @ If chrysler uses the same wheels as GM does (purchased from sameE manufacturer), does it mean that chrysler's car is the same as GM's ?s   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 00:10:12 +0000 (UTC)e7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)c< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)( Message-ID: <bap1l4$en6$2@pcls4.std.com>  , JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:   >Rob Young wrote:rL >>         a game.  Almost every internal featured of NT 1.0 was lifted fromK >>         VMS.  Don't debate me, trot some of what Russonivich or Hanrahan % >>         wrote and pick it a part. g  2 >Again. An OS is made of more than just internals.  E It sounds like the argument is the underlying system is very like VMSgC but higher levels (like the windowing interface routines) are quitetH different.  A device driver writer would easily recognise the similarity2 but ones using a higher level interface would not.  F >Also, I haven't seen your answer. Does NT use 4 modes ? kernel, exec, >supervisor, user ??????  J I believe the IA32 chips are incapable of that.  Not much of a loss, mergeF executive mode in with kernel (probably has to be redone anyway due toF dissimilar file systems), eliminate supervisor mode (no DCL in NT) and5 you have priv/unpriv mode like nearly every other OS.-  A >If chrysler uses the same wheels as GM does (purchased from same F >manufacturer), does it mean that chrysler's car is the same as GM's ?  C It sounds more like if Chrysler stole/bought a propietary GM engine0G designed, changed it a little and claimed it as its own.  It's not likepF DEC and Microsoft bought some software from a third party, and derived! VMS and WNT from it respectively.   G A long time DECcie friend of mine goes as far as to say the Windows NT 0G sources to many routines say "Copyright Digital Equipment Corp." at theM* beginning, but I don't quite believe that.   -Mikes   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 21:24:58 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)2 Message-ID: <UWSdnZTd2e9ehk2jXTWcpQ@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:jScwdl0bOLwi@eisner.encompasserve.org...t3 > In article <3ECF124D.C9AF79C@istop.com>, JF Mezei # <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:l   ...a   > > Does it have aL > > sophisticated disk/file system that supports host based volume shadowing ?s > A > Yes.  Keep current if you are going to bash NT/2000 or whatever  > it is called today.l  : Well, in fairness you should also point out the following:  H 1.  The NT file system (NTFS) is really nothing like the VMS file systemG (nor, of course, anything like RMS, but we're talking file-system-leveldL details here).  It is in fact much more like a Unix file system:  byte-rangeD rather than block-oriented acccess, large, dynamically-sized centralK file-byte-accessible cache rather than direct-to-process I/O as the defaulteF (and the cache is fully integrated with the system's paging mechanism,D rather than completely separate), b-tree-structured rather than flatF directories, protection by a transaction journal rather than ODS-2/5'sE careful-update approach, and, of course, no provisions whatsoever forp clustered operation.  J 2.  And while NT indeed supports host-based RAID (as do most systems theseJ days), it's purely local:  no mirroring to (and coordination with) another host.d  K You also artfully snipped JF's immediately-preceding question as to whetherwE NT has a distributed lock manager, which, of course, it does not.  ItgF doesn't even have a *local* lock manager:  both kernel and applicationJ synchronization is usually handled by considerably lower-level mechanisms,G with special-purpose code to handle facilities such as byte-range locks.C individually rather than use a single common mechanism for all such < activities (so don't even *think* about deadlock detection).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 22:04:38 -0400o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)2 Message-ID: <qMOdnf8qZcQmuU2jXTWcpA@metrocast.net>  E "Jeff Walters" <jwalters_1_nospam@no_yahoo_spam.com> wrote in messaget) news:vcv102ohhirrb7@corp.supernews.com...o > > Buy?  Purchase?-. > > Do you mean gain?  What "profit" is in it? > >d> > > Well, the statement itself is true.  NT does have a strong? > > relationship to VMS.  We shouldn't shy away from the truth.e >iI > But this is a trivial piece of truth that's hardly worth the airtime it C > gets.  Knowing it does you very little good on a practical level.k  J Wrong:  it did me a great deal of good on a practical level when I startedC writing NT code, both kernel and application.  The environment felt I comfortably familiar in many more respects than it did not (though I mustiJ admit that nothing I wrote came anywhere near needing to work with a GUI).J Had I had to write asynchronous code on Unix, it would have been downright painful by comparison.   ...a  K > > Those similarities could fill a book. In fact, you can read sections ofhH > > VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures (Digital Press) as an accurateL > > description of NT internals simply by translating VMS terms to NT terms. > L > This would be a risky and dumb move to do while accepting a paycheck.  Get4 > the Windows documentation if you're doing Windows.  L *What* Windows documentation?  While it has improved over the years, there'sF still nothing anywhere nearly as detailed as the I&DS books:  when theK SDK/DDK/MSDN information and "Inside Windows xxx", etc. books don't providesL the level of detail you need, and you don't feel like blowing $500,000 or soH on the sources (unless they're cheaper now), it's good to have access to; something that might at least shed some light on the issue."   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 21:49:07 -0400y* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)2 Message-ID: <qMOdnfwqZcQmuU2jXTWcpA@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:3y5RB+2qy4uQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...-     NT does have a strongn= > relationship to VMS.  We shouldn't shy away from the truth..  I And anyone who has a clue does not.  The problem is that you try to claim E something far more intimate than a 'strong relationship' (such as theoJ VMS/RSX relationship that I mentioned, where a great many central conceptsJ are carried over unchanged):  in your own words, you not only said that NTL is "based on" VMS but at least once that NT "*is* [emphasis added] very much VMS".t   > L > > The 2 OS's are quite different from three of the most important hands-onH > > perspectives:  the users, the application developers, and the system
 > > managers.  > > > As Jamie mentions, you are at the UI/API level.  Internally, > they are the same.  I There you go again:  internally they are nothing like the same in detail,fE just often very similar in overall concept and modular decomposition.u  E You talk like someone who has never written a large, complex piece of > software and therefore doesn't have a clue about how importantL implementation details are.  Having a really good high-level design templateJ like VMS to work from is an invaluable start to producing a great product,I but it's *only* a start.  If you want the result to be comparable (rathereI than just a rough image), you really do need to use the actual code whilelF you're 'rewriting' the system, because that code carries within it the> hard-won knowledge of decades of enhancements and corrections.  K I could do a decent job creating a record-oriented system like RMS, but the.J result wouldn't *be* RMS nor would it merit the characterization "based onL RMS" (though in some cases it might be "based on RMS *concepts*") - not onlyK because I'd probably forget a few features or corrected bugs but because itoK wouldn't make *sense* to do it the same way as before, especially in a caseo7 (like NT) where there was absolutely no requirement fornG backward-compatibility.  So I'd steal as much as was useful (and legal,sI though the latter may not have bothered MS), change it where appropriate,kH and hopefully come out with a better system that might still have a good deal of RMS flavor to it.   I NT probably does have a somewhat closer relationship to VMS than what I'daG write for a record manager today would have to RMS, but even there it'scD important to note that the relationship is not with today's VMS (forK example, the entire notion of VMS-style clustering is completely foreign tovJ Redmond) but with VMS V1 (or possibly V2).  And simply the fact that thoseI VMSs were written in assembler and Bliss and NT was written in C would be J enough to make a mockery of any claim to closer than conceptual derivationK unless one could demonstrate that the new modules were written with the oldo
 code in hand.4   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 21:06:31 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)G< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)3 Message-ID: <EY3i6qiZGLLh@eisner.encompasserve.org>/  V In article <3ECFBACB.8B6B1283@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:L >>         a game.  Almost every internal featured of NT 1.0 was lifted fromK >>         VMS.  Don't debate me, trot some of what Russonivich or Hanrahana% >>         wrote and pick it a part. n > 3 > Again. An OS is made of more than just internals.f >   > 	Sure.  As Jamie pointed out to you in the earlier thread much> 	of what you were talking about vis-a-vis differences were/are8 	UI/API differences.  When it came down to talking about8 	NT internals , he showed you it was VMS and you agreed.  G > Also, I haven't seen your answer. Does NT use 4 modes ? kernel, exec,e > supervisor, user ??????t> >                                                                	Don't know , don't care.i   > B > If chrysler uses the same wheels as GM does (purchased from sameG > manufacturer), does it mean that chrysler's car is the same as GM's ?-  ; 	You are out at the UI level.  If the Chrysler had the same ? 	engine design right down to features GM came up with, Chrysler  	would be in trouble.-   				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 22:48:42 -0400:* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)) Message-ID: <3ED02EEA.9B9BBDB0@istop.com>    Michael Moroney wrote: > H > >Also, I haven't seen your answer. Does NT use 4 modes ? kernel, exec, > >supervisor, user ?????? > 2 > I believe the IA32 chips are incapable of that.   < Yes they are. Not sure if that came with 80386 or pentium 3.  E > It sounds more like if Chrysler stole/bought a propietary GM engine-; > designed, changed it a little and claimed it as its own.    J No. There are concepts in cars which are fairly common to all. Someone mayG have invented anti-lock brakes, but they are now pretty standard across- different manufacturers.  H > A long time DECcie friend of mine goes as far as to say the Windows NTI > sources to many routines say "Copyright Digital Equipment Corp." at the., > beginning, but I don't quite believe that.  L If you stole code, don't you think that the very first thing you would do isK remove all copyright warnings and rename enough variables to make it "your"c code ?  J However, lets not forget that Palmer did donate some VMS code to MicrosoftH after NT had been written (in exchance for the right to resell microsoftL products - stores don't have to donate their organs to get that, buit PalmerI felt it necessary to do so). So it is plausible that SOME NT code has themH copyright notice, but that would be stuff that was officially donated by Digital in the mid/late 1990s.  6 I really do not understand why Cuttle is so glorified.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 23:07:30 -0400V* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)( Message-ID: <3ED03350.D8A4CF8@istop.com>   Rob Young wrote:I > > Also, I haven't seen your answer. Does NT use 4 modes ? kernel, exec,  > > supervisor, user ??????a" >         Don't know , don't care.  N It would seem to me that memory protection models would be the most "internal" of internals.     D >         You are out at the UI level.  If the Chrysler had the sameH >         engine design right down to features GM came up with, Chrysler >         would be in trouble.  M Sorry, but wheels are not at the UI level, they are at the core of a car. ThenF UI level is the selection of the dashboard, colour/shape of pedals and steering wheel.C  N Jamie Hanrahan may have seen very strong similarities in the one area he worksK in (drivers). But that doesn't make NT anywhere near like VMS.  Much of the L other stuff that is similar could be just normal inspiration that many otherI OS have done too, or just simple logic that makes a decision logical (forBJ instance, 32 priorities).  I have not spoken about my PSION's UI (which isM dramatically different from VMS). I have spoken about its internal OS design.   J If NT had been superior to VMS, I could see some sort of need to point outI that NT had roots in VMS. But since NT is by far an inferior OS, it is ane< insult to VMS to point out that NT inspired itself from VMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 21:40:24 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)d< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)3 Message-ID: <UoZC3TjNQQmZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>V  _ In article <qMOdnfwqZcQmuU2jXTWcpA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:- > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:3y5RB+2qy4uQ@eisner.encompasserve.org...- >  > ...- >  >   NT does have a strong-> >> relationship to VMS.  We shouldn't shy away from the truth. > K > And anyone who has a clue does not.  The problem is that you try to claim2G > something far more intimate than a 'strong relationship' (such as theRL > VMS/RSX relationship that I mentioned, where a great many central conceptsL > are carried over unchanged):  in your own words, you not only said that NTN > is "based on" VMS but at least once that NT "*is* [emphasis added] very much > VMS".  >  >>M >> > The 2 OS's are quite different from three of the most important hands-onbI >> > perspectives:  the users, the application developers, and the systeml >> > managers. >>? >> As Jamie mentions, you are at the UI/API level.  Internally,v >> they are the same.w > K > There you go again:  internally they are nothing like the same in detail, G > just often very similar in overall concept and modular decomposition.c > G > You talk like someone who has never written a large, complex piece of-@ > software and therefore doesn't have a clue about how importantN > implementation details are.  Having a really good high-level design templateL > like VMS to work from is an invaluable start to producing a great product,K > but it's *only* a start.  If you want the result to be comparable (rathersK > than just a rough image), you really do need to use the actual code while H > you're 'rewriting' the system, because that code carries within it the@ > hard-won knowledge of decades of enhancements and corrections. >    	Okay.    M > I could do a decent job creating a record-oriented system like RMS, but theoL > result wouldn't *be* RMS nor would it merit the characterization "based onN > RMS" (though in some cases it might be "based on RMS *concepts*") - not onlyM > because I'd probably forget a few features or corrected bugs but because itpM > wouldn't make *sense* to do it the same way as before, especially in a caseg9 > (like NT) where there was absolutely no requirement fordI > backward-compatibility.  So I'd steal as much as was useful (and legal,iK > though the latter may not have bothered MS), change it where appropriate,aJ > and hopefully come out with a better system that might still have a good > deal of RMS flavor to it.l > K > NT probably does have a somewhat closer relationship to VMS than what I'dhI > write for a record manager today would have to RMS, but even there it'srF > important to note that the relationship is not with today's VMS (forM > example, the entire notion of VMS-style clustering is completely foreign toi, > Redmond) but with VMS V1 (or possibly V2).  > 	And that would be a trick.  As others pointed out, Cutler was* 	long gone when VMS clustering came about.  ! >  And simply the fact that thoseQK > VMSs were written in assembler and Bliss and NT was written in C would benL > enough to make a mockery of any claim to closer than conceptual derivationM > unless one could demonstrate that the new modules were written with the old0 > code in hand.r   	Sure would speed things up.  = 	Here straighten me out, is Russinovich blowin smoke or what?   > http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=4494&pg=2  O "Nevertheless, the migration of VMS internals to NT was so thorough that withinlC a few weeks of NT's release, Digital engineers noticed the strikingd similarities."    > http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=4494&pg=3  M "Why the Fastest Chip Didn't Win" (Business Week, April 28, 1997) states thattH when Digital engineers noticed the similarities between VMS and NT, theyO brought their observations to senior management. Rather than suing, Digital cut L a deal with Microsoft. In the summer of 1995, Digital announced Affinity forC OpenVMS, a program that required Microsoft to help train Digital NTmI technicians, help promote NT and Open-VMS as two pieces of a three-tiered M client/server networking solution, and promise to maintain NT support for the1O Alpha processor. Microsoft also paid Digital between 65 million and 100 milliona dollars.    < 	The problem I have is Business Week broke the story.  If it; 	had been theinquirer or theregister or Matt Drudge or the	r) 	New York Times, I wouldn't be so swayed.   7 	Did Microsoft pay Digital $65-100 million because theye 	were feeling guilty?e  : 	Or was it because NT is little more than warmed over VMS?   				Robn   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:06:24 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>.( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist KitsJ Message-ID: <AwOza.251163$w7k.165735@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  2 "Mark E. Levy" <melevy@attbi.com> wrote in message' news:IkMza.97691$rt6.33127@sccrnsc02...i >r> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3ECF8DF1.DF99B589@fsi.net...m > > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > >t > > > David L. Cathey wrote: > > > ../..eC > > > >         Of course, a big thanks to all in the OpenVMS group 	 for theirdC > > > > support of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program!  At this time, theo OpenVMSeF > > > > Hobbyist Program has provided over 444,000 license PAK's since thec& > > > > program begin on May 18, 1997. > > >:: > > > Are we going to be more numerous than "real" Users ? > >s > > Seems to me we already are!i >rB > And exactly how much revenue has HP generated from said hobbyist program? If F > the number of "real" users continues to slide, so will HP's interest in theE > hobbyist program. Someone has to pay the engineers, and I seriouslyt doubtn? > that HP would continue the program out of a sense of history.e >eD > My point is that pointing out that there are more no-revenue users	 out thereh. > than paying users may not be a good thing...    F HP already knows that....In fact their current policy of not marketingF and advertising VMS is actively encouraging this sad state of affairs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 14:25:11 -0400l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits) Message-ID: <3ECFB906.4167290B@istop.com>n   "Mark E. Levy" wrote:eN > My point is that pointing out that there are more no-revenue users out there. > than paying users may not be a good thing...  K POinting out that you have billions of litres of water NOT flowing behind arN dam can also be viewed as a bad thing since it isn't generetating electricity.  O But open the water gates, and the water starts to flow and you get electricity.o  L For each hobbyist you get, you also get someone who is likely to mention VMST at work and who might even succeed in getting "work" to look into VMS as a solution.  K But right now, HP has closed the water gates, and pitching an OS that isn'tr; "supported" (1) by its vendor is no something that is good.b  & However, the potential is still there.  H (1) not talking about technical support, talking about sales, marketing,! inclusion in strategic plans etc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 14:30:00 -0400a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits) Message-ID: <3ECFBA26.8892489C@istop.com>    Michael Unger wrote:H > 440k licenses within six years are about 73k licenses a year, but even& > that number is really impressive ...  D Until you realise that VAXman needs 70,000 licenses for his basement datacentre :-) :-) :-) :-)    K Now, if HP wanted to make some money out of hobbyists, it could simply selliK the condist package at a very reasonable price (say $100 USD) to hobbyists,>I even if it is actually done by someone else who can do this efficiently).S  I Now, sorry for the pedantic question, but when you mention 73k licenses aiE year, is that 73k VMS licences, or 73k licences ? (when i request theVF "applications" licences, I get a whole bunch of them, are each countedE individually, or does the 73k number reflect the number of requests ?l   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 19:57:21 GMTD6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits1 Message-ID: <B8Qza.5660$Kn1.70393@news.chello.at>t  \ In article <bao6ug$1r7qq$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:- >On 23-May-2003 23:39, David L. Cathey wrote:4H >>         Of course, a big thanks to all in the OpenVMS group for theirF >> support of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program!  At this time, the OpenVMSE >> Hobbyist Program has provided over 444,000 license PAK's since theh! >> program begin on May 18, 1997.    My thanks, too !!   H >440k licenses within six years are about 73k licenses a year, but even % >that number is really impressive ...   H Only if there are really 444k VMS licenses. If not, and you take all theH layered products into account, it means, divide it by 100 (or 101 or ;-)G to get the real numbers (as nobody uses more than 5-10% of the licenses L one gets for free). And divide it also by 7 (years) as you have to regularlyJ renew them. And then it is a way lower number than the officially sold VMS license numbers...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialisty E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 15:29:59 -0500h1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits' Message-ID: <3ECFD647.A3A178E2@fsi.net>l   "Mark E. Levy" wrote:h > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3ECF8DF1.DF99B589@fsi.net...r > > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > >a > > > David L. Cathey wrote: > > > ../..eM > > > >         Of course, a big thanks to all in the OpenVMS group for theiriK > > > > support of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program!  At this time, the OpenVMSnJ > > > > Hobbyist Program has provided over 444,000 license PAK's since the& > > > > program begin on May 18, 1997. > > > : > > > Are we going to be more numerous than "real" Users ? > >  > > Seems to me we already are!  > N > And exactly how much revenue has HP generated from said hobbyist program? IfM > the number of "real" users continues to slide, so will HP's interest in the"K > hobbyist program. Someone has to pay the engineers, and I seriously doubtg? > that HP would continue the program out of a sense of history.n > N > My point is that pointing out that there are more no-revenue users out there. > than paying users may not be a good thing...  G ...or it may underscore the potenial for profit currently being missed.T  F Word-of-mouth is still held a valuable means of advertising. Right nowG it's all we've got. For my money, the further the word gets spread, thel better.0  H S'pose - and this *IS* a stretch, I grant you - that HP decided to allowG a "hobbyist's SPL" to be sold just like the VMS CDs currently available5G from DFW/Montagar. I already have what it takes to produce such mastersS from the quarterly SPL.   E The expensive part of the SPL subscription is not the media, it's thecH right-to-upgrade. If the two were sold separately instead of together asF is the tradition, it would open up accessibility at the hobbyist level9 while protecting revenue streams at the commercial level.    Not likely, I know.   @ In the grander scheme, though, that's gotta be good for VMS, no?   -- A David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsJ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 23:59:14 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) ( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kits( Message-ID: <bap10i$en6$1@pcls4.std.com>  8 peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:  I >>440k licenses within six years are about 73k licenses a year, but even 3& >>that number is really impressive ...  I >Only if there are really 444k VMS licenses. If not, and you take all thebI >layered products into account, it means, divide it by 100 (or 101 or ;-)uH >to get the real numbers (as nobody uses more than 5-10% of the licensesM >one gets for free). And divide it also by 7 (years) as you have to regularly K >renew them. And then it is a way lower number than the officially sold VMS  >license numbers...a  H Yeah, 440K licenses over 7 years, and the 'layered products' PAK kit hasJ a zillion PAKs you get all or none of, regardless of how many you actuallyJ need/use.  If there are 100 (I haven't counted them), that means there are) all of about 628 active users on average.o   -Miker   ------------------------------    Date: 24 May 2003 20:31:19 +0200B From: holitska_a@cut-it-outludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs) Subject: Re: Overclocking VAXen ! Message-ID: <XyNgEvOWkHIo@ludens>   [ In article <3ECED47D.26214.DB43D61@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:m. > On 24 May 2003 at 4:25, Zane H. Healy wrote:M >> Since it's rated at 6.2 for SPECint92, I think it's safe to say that a VLC F >> is a whole lot more than 0.5 VUPs, I know it's a lot faster than my( >> VS3100/20 which is a usable 2.4 VUPs.F > It was my attempt at humor.  I'm glad that some people have time to G > kill.  Good thing that I like what I do -- which is working with VMS.l  @   I'm glad your glad. And I'll be even more glad, if I'll finishB   the task I currently have (configuring some Wendozes and BSDs toC   work together... yuck - but at least I learn something). Oh well,u   back to topic.    ?   Thanks to all who have replied! Will try replacing the clock,SA   on a MicroVAX 2000 and see if it lives. Will report any success 6   or failure, maybe someone else wants to play too. :]  =   Oh and I don't need faster VAXen for critical applications,.@   tweaking some hardware is just a hobby of mine, and purchasing<   some new stuff is out of question because lack of cash and   remote location (Hungary).  @   But to see, that someone (nemonixinc) is providing upgrades to@   VAXen was interesting, never tought a company would do beefing   up VAXen as a business.        Wish me luck. :]   Regards: <Holi> - VAX/VMS lovero   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 14:54:06 -0500n2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> Subject: Re: Overclocking VAXen / Message-ID: <vcvjglabcvau62@corp.supernews.com>w  G "Holi - Holitska Andrs" <holitska_a@cut-it-outludens.elte.hu> wrote inn# message news:XyNgEvOWkHIo@ludens... D > In article <3ECED47D.26214.DB43D61@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes: ><SNIP>w >dB >   But to see, that someone (nemonixinc) is providing upgrades toB >   VAXen was interesting, never tought a company would do beefing >   up VAXen as a business.i >  >g >   Wish me luck. :] >l! > Regards: <Holi> - VAX/VMS lovere  I Nemonix has been around a LONG time. I remember that they sold an upgradepI kit for the 11/750 series. As I recall, it plugged onto the backplane anddF speeded the CPU up (15% or so). This was around 1987 as I remember it.   Stuart Johnson   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 22:31:07 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>  Subject: Re: Overclocking VAXen ' Message-ID: <3ED0551B.2050607@MMaz.com>,   Zane H. Healy wrote:  * >Stanley F. Quayle <stan@stanq.com> wrote: >  n > 7 >>On 22 May 2003 at 20:24, Holi - Holitska Andrs wrote:  >>     >>> >>>  I was just wondering... anybody around here, who has done  >>>  some overclocking on VAXen?	 >>>      s >>>nH >>If you're running a production system, and need more performance, you G >>can get there with a fast PC and CHARON-VAX [shameless plug alert].   . >>(I just happen to be a CHARON-VAX reseller.) >>     >>E >If someone needs a faster VAX, they *might* be better off going withaK >CHARON-VAX, but it still can't beat one of the faster VAXen, an Alpha, or o% >the Itanium 2's that are on the way.e >SB >I see that SRI is claiming 50+ VUPs depending on the host systemsI >configuration.  I for one would like to here real-world examples of suchvK >performance from someone that's running it, not someone that is trying to  G >sell it (sorry, that includes both you and SRI, no offense intended, IaM >simply tend not to trust numbers from someone with a financial interest in aS >product).   >  . >pE We are it... Just completed the relocate to an AMD Athlon Dual 2600+ -I system with 2G of RAM, about 110G of available internal RAID storage and [H other 56G of external RAID storage running Charon-VAX connected via two F U320 and two U160 channels.  I'm not talking schlock stuff but rather H full ECC memory, Adaptec RAID controllers, etc...  We're seeing ratings C in the 55 VUP range and our normal weekend batch processing, which  I historically took 18 hours to run on Sundays, completed this past Sunday  . for the first time in 5 hours and 45 minutes.   I We've been operational for a week and the user community cannot tell the  : difference, no change in OS, apps, anything, except speed!  M >Personally, the biggest advantages I see to CHARON-VAX is that it's a way to M >get VAX-only apps running on an Alpha (I wouldn't trust something running onnM >OpenVMS to a Windows based system), and the ability to get off of really old 
 >hardware. >-E Wasn't my first choice to run Charon on Windows 2000, but there were MH several factors that weighed into its favor.  First, I can acquire rock G solid hardware at comparably cheap prices; Second, Charon on an AMD is oA faster than the same on Intel OR Alpha; Third, I only needed VMS eF licensed once, rather than twice (once for the Alpha and once for the  VAX) saving more money.r  E I spent three months of acid testing to try and crash VMS running on 2E Charon on Windows 2000.  My suggestion?  If you're serious about the dJ product, see if you can crash VMS in that same Windows 2000 environment...  F Bottom line, after all of the squawking about Charon theory's on this F list, were in production with real results...  I'm just curious, when E VAX systems were still in the pipe, what would have a 55 VUP machine -B cost then with 2G of RAM and almost 110G of usable RAID storage?  ( probably a few more pennys than I spent!   Barryn   -- ?  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028l   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 03:21:47 GMTo# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)n/ Subject: Re: Speed of IDE controllers in DS10 ?A1 Message-ID: <fFWza.1444$2T4.813@news.cpqcorp.net>   S In article <b9fhlo$j8f$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:?@ :Can anyone tell me the speed of the IDE controllers in a DS10 ?< :It will not be 100MByte/sec, but is it 33 or 66 MByte/sec ?  G   IIRC, The AlphaServer DS10 series ATA bus (IDE) is a 16MHz DMA mode 23I   interface, which makes it ATA33 -- I don't have my ATA specs to confirmnJ   this translation, however.  I think the ATA part used in the AlphaServerL   DS10 itself might be capable of ATA66 operations, but I don't know if the G   motherboard interface or if the OpenVMS DQDRIVER has that capability.r  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comw   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:12:07 GMTu# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)u" Subject: Re: Structure Layout in C1 Message-ID: <HgYza.1448$2T4.692@news.cpqcorp.net>D  w In article <a48f6f51.0305142312.449ba78a@posting.google.com>, stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge) writes:fB :Cheers Jim. That's just what I was looking for. It's a shame theyF :don't use similar qualifiers for similar tasks between the languages.  G   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for the usual C programming boo-boos, and  F   then see the Ask The Wizard area topic (1661) and its references for&   the more advanced C coding boo-boos.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:00:21 GMTs` From: "Randall S. Becker" <r s b e c k e r _ n o s p a m@n e x b r i d g e _n o s p a m . c o m>; Subject: Re: ZLE data synchronise with different line speed3J Message-ID: <F5Yza.254317$w7k.214182@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  J Another thing to consider is that a V.90 modem isn't going to be up to theL task of handling a 1000 or 10000 TPS load unless the transactions are fairlyF trivial - in which case, why bother with a ZLE in the first place? TheK infrastructure required to support a true ZLE is substantial, and is beyonda simple data transmission rates.s  ; "Dave Bossi" <davebossi@C.O.M.C.A.S.T.net> wrote in messagei* news:3ECE1F11.3080701@C.O.M.C.A.S.T.net...E | The Zero Latency concept applies to a much greater picture than anyfG | individual piece of the replication activity.  If you go to HP's sitemJ | you can read information on ZLE and what the concept really encompasses. |iH | Regarding replication over a slow circuit, you are correct, the higherG | speed the circuit the more current the data that has been replicated.tJ | Since replication tools work "in the background", your real-time updatesI | to the primary site are not affected by the bandwidth to the remote. ToeI | establish a mirror site for DR or for load sharing, your bandwidth must)J | be at least equal to your aggregate data modification rate or the mirror | site will fall behind. |5 | Dave |- | MAser wrote:C | > I was wonder about this ZLE concept from hp. It say that it can I | > synchronise data. I was thinking if the speed of the line does affecteD | > the data input. For example, if I were to use normal phone modemI | > (v.90) and access & update the database. At the same time, if anothertH | > person used DSL and access the same data would there be a problem as, | > now mostly, he will read the older data. | >m
 | > Thank youe |l   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 02:51:03 GMTr# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)oH Subject: Re: [Q] QIO programming with MOP remote console with DECservers0 Message-ID: <rcWza.1442$2T4.29@news.cpqcorp.net>  o In article <51262235.0305061951.19c68d8d@posting.google.com>, stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au (Stuart Norris) writes:   G :I am attempting to write a program that will allow me to connect to a >F :DECServer using MOP remote console.  I have a copy of the MaintenanceD :Operations Protocol Functional Specifications that I have reviewed. :nL :What I have done is hopefully, set up a new connection to a terminal server, :via EWA0 on an Alpha running OpenVMS 6.2.    5   Whoa.  That's a fossil-level OpenVMS Alpha version.t  G :I am assuming that there will be a reply back to this reserve console sL :request.  So I post a read for the response.  However the I keep on getting( :a "%SYSTEM-W-ENDOFFILE, end of file".   : J :Why do I get "%SYSTEM-W-ENDOFFILE, end of file"?  Is this a problem with   :my program or is this expected.  G   It's probably your code, but I'm busy debugging my own code right now 7   and not really in a good position to debug your code.   G   To verify what is going on at a lower level (assuming DECnet Phase IVnH   is running) DEFINE the logical name NML$LOG to FF or some such similarH   value, and issue the commands of interest using NCP.  NCP will displayG   the NICE traffic, and you can decode it and see what is going on wheno   you issue commands.e  I   I've a list of NML$LOG values buried within some undocumented features NG   clinic session notes I wrote and presented a while back, look for thedE   session in a subdirectory of the OpenVMS Freeware V4.0 SRH_EXAMPLES    directory:  N http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/srh_examples/decus_undoc_clinic/  C   There is also a C example of calling NICE (NICE.C) located on thee9   Freeware.  The following pointer is from Freeware V5.0:d  A http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/srh_examples/nice.c     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comr   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.287 ************************