1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 30 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 298       Contents:% Re: advsyscon remote shadow on alpha?   Re: Another VMS inquirer articleD Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty fileD Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty fileP Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file with deleteP Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file with deleteP Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file with deleteP Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file with delete% Re: Calculating semesters with DCL... ( Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Days #1 & #2 Re: ES45 AGP RE: ES45 AGP Re: ES45 AGP Re: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS  RE: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS  How to sort a list in VAX BASIC # Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC # Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC # Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC # Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC # Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC  Re: Install Directory  Re: Install Directory  Re: Install Directory  Re: Install Directory  Re: Install Directory  Re: Install Directory  Re: Install Directory , Re: Mystery Alpha CPUS, what do they fit in? Re: Need OpenVMS (any version)$ Re: Needed, history of startup files$ Re: Needed, history of startup files3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death) 3 Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  R.I.P. Netscape  Re: R.I.P. Netscape  Re: R.I.P. Netscape  Re: R.I.P. Netscape  Re: R.I.P. Netscape # Re: What's happened to Alan Greig ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:04:12 -0400 " From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>. Subject: Re: advsyscon remote shadow on alpha?- Message-ID: <bb7h7s$hnc@library1.airnews.net>   K Pip, could you provide some info on the size of transfers and the nature of  the wan link please?    ' "Pip" <pip@ti.nl0.com> wrote in message 6 news:3ed6c626$0$16256$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...J > We use the Remote Shadow Option on Alpha OpenVMS up to V7.3-1 just fine.B > Yes, I believe it does intercept start-io, because it used to beL > incompatible with raxco's perfect-cache, which did intercept start-io. TheK > remote shadow device appears as a separate device, which can be added and & > removed from the shadow set at will.I > Yes, we did encounter some problem with the XFC cache changes, but they   > fixed them a year or more ago.J > We particularly liked the out-of-sync tolerance, so that users would notH > suffer a performance hit waiting for I/O completion. (We run it over a WAN, > rather than a gigabit LAN) >  > hth  > Pip  >  > * > "Everhart" <ge@gce.com> wrote in message' > news:bb0vv6$t05$1@bob.news.rcn.net... E > > If they intercept start-io and don't have a separate user visible F > > shadowed device, I would treat them with great care. While I don'tG > > know details, I have heard of and encountered enough driver changes G > > and functional changes with the new XFC cache that I feel skeptical E > > about that operation. If you have to set up a new device and have F > > to point a logical at that device instead of the old name, it is a littleK > > harder to set up remote shadow. On the other hand you are not dependent  onJ > > a synchronization environment which is handling numerous new functionsL > > and is increasingly hard to follow. As I wrote earlier, i tend to preferE > > the Bearcomp approach. For a commercial user the issue is whether  BearcompI > > still sells it. Remote shadowing with a local buffer file that serves I > > to hold written blocks that have not yet made it to the remote end is  not J > > conceptually all that hard, just takes some care in the writing of theJ > > buffer, but would take a little work to concoct it out of vddriver andE > > some daemons, zrdriver, or lddriver. Nobody has done that in free  software
 > > AFAIK. > > Glenn Everhart > >  > > Hal Kuff wrote:  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:46:34 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: Another VMS inquirer article H Message-ID: <uwHBa.287900$M81.4120@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message  news:3ED6AFB7.159E8F9@fsi.net... > John Smith wrote:  > > @ > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% > > news:3ED5602F.DD0B7710@fsi.net...  > > > [snip]C > > > Folks here can attest - I cut a *LOT* of crooked furrows, but  I'm  > > not  > > > always wrong, either.  > > B > > If you were an employee of 'The New hp', not only would you be wrong,D > > you'd likely be fired if you didn't toe the party line. I almostA > > wonder if there isn't a department inside The New hp with the  initials > > NKVD or KGB. > 7 > Kevin G. Barkes? Wonder what he's up to these days...      www.kgb.com  -- not THAT KGB   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2003 13:38:02 GMT4 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@frank.harvard.invalid>M Subject: Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file / Message-ID: <bb7mrq$deg$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>   & Dann Corbit <dcorbit@connx.com> wrote:< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:4GTqTUCDyFzT@eisner.encompasserve.org... ? >> In article <bb6016$d3g$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk  > <munk@home.nl> writes: >> > Dann Corbit wrote:  >>M >> >> I have searched high and low for the book "RMS Internals" but it cannot  > be >> >> had any more.  >> >8 >> > The VMS books have been a bit reorganized it seems.L >> > Did you check the "OpenVMS Record Management Services Reference Manual" > ?  >>K >> The "OpenVMS Record Management Services Reference Manual" is part of the  >> VMS Documentation.   C > I have this document.  If my answer is in there, I can't find it.   > >> "RMS Internals" was a Digital Press book (by Kirby McCoy?).  & > Yes, I know.  I can't find the book.  ~ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555580564/qid=1054301724/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-8236346-3756063?v=glance&s=books  D 3 used copies, starting at $90.  DP is coming out with a new edition in Dec 2004.   Chip   --  $ Charles  M. "Chip" Coldwell      __o# "Turn on, log in, tune out"      \< &                               (@)/(@) % -------------------------------------    ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 03 07:40:31 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com M Subject: Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file ( Message-ID: <y1+OAzRtLaud@cpva.saic.com>  / In article <bb7mrq$deg$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>, 7  Chip Coldwell <coldwell@frank.harvard.invalid> writes: ( > Dann Corbit <dcorbit@connx.com> wrote:= >> "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message 0 >> news:4GTqTUCDyFzT@eisner.encompasserve.org...@ >>> In article <bb6016$d3g$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk >> <munk@home.nl> writes:  >>> > Dann Corbit wrote: >>> N >>> >> I have searched high and low for the book "RMS Internals" but it cannot >> be  >>> >> had any more. >>> > 9 >>> > The VMS books have been a bit reorganized it seems. M >>> > Did you check the "OpenVMS Record Management Services Reference Manual"  >> ? >>> L >>> The "OpenVMS Record Management Services Reference Manual" is part of the >>> VMS Documentation. > D >> I have this document.  If my answer is in there, I can't find it. > ? >>> "RMS Internals" was a Digital Press book (by Kirby McCoy?).  > ' >> Yes, I know.  I can't find the book.  >  > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555580564/qid=1054301724/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-8236346-3756063?v=glance&s=books > F > 3 used copies, starting at $90.  DP is coming out with a new edition > in Dec 2004. >  > Chip >  > --  & > Charles  M. "Chip" Coldwell      __o% > "Turn on, log in, tune out"      \< ( >                               (@)/(@) ' > -------------------------------------   D McCoy's book is title "VMS File System Iternals". This should not beB confused with RMS internals. The file system and RMS are differentG animals. McCoy does not discuss RMS. This book focuses on the structure C of the file system, volumes, caching, locking, QIOs, etc - but, not  the record management system.    --   - Jim    ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 04:36:18 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Y Subject: Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file with delete 3 Message-ID: <GX+LbwAJqxpW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <bb6hbl01s6q@enews3.newsguy.com>, "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@connx.com> writes:  2 >> >But in this case, the seek is returning 65537. >>9 >> That is a normal status - it did what you asked of it.  > J > I know what it means.  But it is a lie.  The function says it read a big' > block of data, but the file is empty.   - But didn't you say this was an indexed file ?   4 On an indexed file, block IO will read the metadata.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 07:54:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file with delete 3 Message-ID: <hxkT2WI3ZSZ5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <bb5kl002fa8@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@connx.com> writes:G > I am using Block IO.  The file has no records in it, but it has pages 6 > allocated.  ANALYZE/RMS shows no errors in the file. > M > After a sys$read, I get sys$read a status of 65537  and a DataSize of 32256 
 > (non-zero). L > The End Of Data is less than or equal to the Next Free Offset, and yet theK > reported Key Length  is greater than the Total Key Size.  In reality, the / > file is empty -- no valid records live there.   A    Did you check RMS$_STS and RMS$_STV?  IIRC for synchronous I/O C    RSM$_STS should match the function return, but it might be worth 0    checking (I don't have my RMS manuals handy).  F    Did you verify that the file used size is still 0 after closing the    file?  F    When reading by key, is there an XAB which will return the contentsG    of the actual key found?  (Is that where your getting key length?)   G    Does it make sense?  Is the key length always greater than the total 3    key size when you get success from the function?   I    You say you don't always see this problem, what error do you get when      you don't get success?   H    Is it possible that erroneous success cases are on a volume marked noB    highwater and proper failures are on a volume marked highwater?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:48:01 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Y Subject: Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file with delete , Message-ID: <3ED78B41.4020100@tsoft-inc.com>   Michael Moroney wrote:  + > "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@connx.com> writes:  >  > L >>Yes.  But those books are a bit quiet when it comes to block IO internals. >>I already know to check for  >>98938 (end of file detected) >>98994 (record not found)' >>99932 (invalid record's file address) 0 >>99732 (invalid record number key or key value) >> > 0 >>But in this case, the seek is returning 65537. >> > 8 > That is a normal status - it did what you asked of it. > H > Probably better to operate on the low bit(s) of the status code rather= > than hard-coding in every response you think it can return.     K Let's back up a bit.  The subject says BLOCK I/O.  A BLOCK I/O file has no  O structure.  There are no 'internals'.  Records cannot be deleted.  It's just a  F file, of whatever size, and you can read the existing 512 byte blocks.  B The first question, what is the output of a dir/size for the file?  P If you do a read, you will either read an existing block, or, your block number K is beyond the file size, and you will (probably) get the EOF return status.    Forget keys, there are no keys.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:39:21 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>Y Subject: Re: Block IO question for RMS files ... Detecting EOF for empty file with delete 4 Message-ID: <bb7ftf$4h0$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:X > In article <bb6hbl01s6q@enews3.newsguy.com>, "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@connx.com> writes: >  > 2 >>>>But in this case, the seek is returning 65537. >>> 9 >>>That is a normal status - it did what you asked of it.  >>J >>I know what it means.  But it is a lie.  The function says it read a big' >>block of data, but the file is empty.  >  > / > But didn't you say this was an indexed file ?  > 6 > On an indexed file, block IO will read the metadata.  @ The easy way (to test for empty) is to use sys$get or sys$find !H Depending what you want to do, you could alternatively check out Hein's @ rms_tune_check, available as freeware (with source), very nice, G discussed here recently. Understands RMS indices pretty well - they're  < complex, & it took Hein a few goes to get all bases covered.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:47:51 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) . Subject: Re: Calculating semesters with DCL...1 Message-ID: <raKBa.1659$xv3.257@news.cpqcorp.net>   l In article <ddf392ea.0305291756.4f8e974@posting.google.com>, contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) writes: >Giving two dates like this: > 7 >  10-nov-2000 -  23-jul-2001   ->  first semester/2001  > 7 >  15-dec-2002 -  05-aug-2003   ->  first semester/2003  > 8 >  05-may-2002 -  28-jan-2003   ->  second semester/2002 > 8 >  11-jun-2000 -  01-jan-2001   ->  second semester/2000 >  > B > How could I calculate this using a procedure ? (first or second  >   > semester , using two dates ? ) >  > Thanks in advance...  E The start and end dates for a semester (trimester, term, etc.) cannot D be calculated.  The are set by various people and differ for variousE institutions.  The "rules" for setting them vary with institution and 
 over time.  A However, if you know the start and end dates for semesters within > a given range of dates, you can build a table and search it.  C To dothis, you will probably want the date in "comparison" format.  A i.e. yyyy-mm-dd.  You can build the "table" in memory as a series > of symbols, e.g. SEM_DATE_01, SEM_DATE_02, etc.  You can step : through the table using an "counter" -- I'll call it SI --  and then reference SEM_DATE_'si'  B I recommend you include plenty of comments explaining what you areL doing.  Someday in the future, someone will need to understand your code --  and that someone could be you!   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 05:04:22 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 1 Subject: Re: DECUS Europe Amsterdam: Days #1 & #2 = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0305300404.2deaa0c1@posting.google.com>   \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3ED69D7A.1030206@tsoft-inc.com>... > Keith Parris wrote: H > > Also remember that the ITUG (Tandem/NonStop) folks were meeting in aI > > different hotel for all but a (few?) keynote session(s), so they were - > > not visible at the RAI Conference Center.  >  > ITUG <> DECUS  > H > I think that Hans was interested in attendees with an interest in VMS.  A My point was that for at least the last couple of years, ITUG and @ DECUS/CUO have held a joint conference in Europe, so in Lyon andD Lisbon, as one looked around, there were a mix of NonStop people andF DECUS/CUO people visible.  This year the NonStop sessions were held at@ a hotel (albeit nearby), not the RAI Conference Center where theE Interex/DECUS/CUO people were, and thus only visible when they joined D us for one keynote session and evening activity, for which they were bussed over to the RAI.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:00:06 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: ES45 AGP 1 Message-ID: <WlKBa.1660$NA3.820@news.cpqcorp.net>   J Yes on all counts.  But the VX1 will not use any AGP-specific capabilitiesH and is still 2D-only.  I have recently made some changes to the VX1 codeF that optimizes the server for DMA operation - which should make thingsF faster and use less CPU.  But the VX1 is nearing end-of-life.  The ATI3 Radeon 7500 will replace it for both 2D and for 3D.   K Note that to get the AGP configuration of the ES45, you give up several PCI H slots.  So unless you are doing some heavy duty visualization with 3D... I'd stick with PCI.   L Another note:  We've decided to bite the bullet and make 24-bits the defaultG on the Radeon 7500.  You can still change it to 8 or 16 planes, but the J performance in 24-bit mode is good enough that we feel that todays browser! based world wants lots of colors.       ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-2905032109090001@user-uinj59k.dialup.mindspring.com...H > In article <bb5vkn$aqs$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, munk@home.nl wrote: >  > >Chip Coldwell wrote: I > >> The Quick Specs for the ES45 mention both an AGP slot and OpenVMS as G > >> an operating system option.  Does this imply that there is OpenVMS ! > >> support for AGP video cards?  > >>	 > >> Chip  > >>I > >Yes, the ATI Radeon 7500 AGP is supported in VMS 7.3-1 with the latest 
 > graphics3 > >patch. The PCI version is supported in the DS10.  > I > IIRC, there is also an AGP version of the VX1 card that is supported in  ES45.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:34:28 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: ES45 AGP 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENLHEAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- ? >From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com] # >Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:00 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: ES45 AGP >  > K >Yes on all counts.  But the VX1 will not use any AGP-specific capabilities I >and is still 2D-only.  I have recently made some changes to the VX1 code G >that optimizes the server for DMA operation - which should make things G >faster and use less CPU.  But the VX1 is nearing end-of-life.  The ATI 4 >Radeon 7500 will replace it for both 2D and for 3D. > L >Note that to get the AGP configuration of the ES45, you give up several PCII >slots.  So unless you are doing some heavy duty visualization with 3D...  >I'd stick with PCI.   Why do you give up PCI slots? / Is it not a separate slot as on typical PC MBs?    > A >Another note:  We've decided to bite the bullet and make 24-bits  >the defaultH >on the Radeon 7500.  You can still change it to 8 or 16 planes, but theK >performance in 24-bit mode is good enough that we feel that todays browser " >based world wants lots of colors. >  >  > @ >"Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageG >news:rdeininger-2905032109090001@user-uinj59k.dialup.mindspring.com... I >> In article <bb5vkn$aqs$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, munk@home.nl wrote:  >> >> >Chip Coldwell wrote:J >> >> The Quick Specs for the ES45 mention both an AGP slot and OpenVMS asH >> >> an operating system option.  Does this imply that there is OpenVMS" >> >> support for AGP video cards? >> >> 
 >> >> Chip >> >> J >> >Yes, the ATI Radeon 7500 AGP is supported in VMS 7.3-1 with the latest >> graphics 4 >> >patch. The PCI version is supported in the DS10. >>J >> IIRC, there is also an AGP version of the VX1 card that is supported in >ES45. >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:07:36 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: ES45 AGP 0 Message-ID: <00A20A2C.85ED1E39@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <WlKBa.1660$NA3.820@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: K >Yes on all counts.  But the VX1 will not use any AGP-specific capabilities I >and is still 2D-only.  I have recently made some changes to the VX1 code G >that optimizes the server for DMA operation - which should make things G >faster and use less CPU.  But the VX1 is nearing end-of-life.  The ATI 4 >Radeon 7500 will replace it for both 2D and for 3D. > L >Note that to get the AGP configuration of the ES45, you give up several PCII >slots.  So unless you are doing some heavy duty visualization with 3D...  >I'd stick with PCI. > M >Another note:  We've decided to bite the bullet and make 24-bits the default H >on the Radeon 7500.  You can still change it to 8 or 16 planes, but theK >performance in 24-bit mode is good enough that we feel that todays browser " >based world wants lots of colors.  K Now all we need is a browser...  That works...  That would mean that it can J access and navigate all of HP's pages which the present offering DOES NOT!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 02:53:24 -0700- From: pfleging.lka@ekkw.de (pfleging.michael)  Subject: Re: Help with VMS= Message-ID: <b8cd107b.0305300153.3918ca64@posting.google.com>   n machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark) wrote in message news:<b3d4f0be.0305291611.1312ad0f@posting.google.com>... > = > C. We bought this unit with three 4 gig drives only one was F > initialized. I looked for a way to initialize them when I was at theE > standalone prompt but I dont think this can be done from here, also B > tried when in the opa0: mode but that didnt seem to work either. > % >  Any help would be much appreciated  >  >  >   Mark  P Try:  >>> test 75            (scsi low-level format and verify on MicroVAX 3100)  =       but be careful with the questions about SCSI-Bus and ID     J if you have linux and you want to get rid off the grown defect list before. you low-level format the drive in the MicroVAX  1 then  try:   scsiformat -e -b300 -t5 -i0 /dev/sda   <                         -e        : delete grown defect listB                         -b300     : block the device for 5 minutes:                         -t5       : status every 5 seconds>                         -i0       : factory default interleaveP                         /dev/sda  : the device to be formatted (example for ID0)    J              scsiinfo /dev/sda    (show drive parameters and defect lists)   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 08:37:05 -0700) From: machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark)  Subject: Re: Help with VMS< Message-ID: <b3d4f0be.0305300737.f5b6c60@posting.google.com>   Thank you all for your help.  > The boot with min worked and I am able to log into the system!  E Tried the SHOW LICENSE/UNITS and for some reason it does not like the  /units part of the command.   C I was able to do a LICENSE LIST VAX-VMS/FULL command on the 3100/80 ; but it would not take it on the 3100/98 and the results are  UNITS 18 Availability A(VMS capacity) Options NO_SHAREA I guess this is not enought units for this to work on the 3100/98   " Here are the errors we are getting$ LICS-W-NOLOAD LICENSE WAS NOT LOADED= LICS-F-EXCEEDED ATTEMPTED USAGE EXCEEDS ACTIVE LICENSE LIMITS 3 LICS-E-NOAUTH   USE IS NOT AUTHORIZED ON THIS NODE    C What determines the node name on a machine? is it the license or do  you set that some where else?   D I notice now that we can get into the system when I do a show DKA itE only shows one drive but at the >>> prompt it sees all drive attached  any thoughts on this?       Mark    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:02:26 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Help with VMS? Message-ID: <OF7A70D142.B19D8A36-ON85256D36.0057F778@metso.com>   G > Tried the SHOW LICENSE/UNITS and for some reason it does not like the  > /units part of the command.   ( That s/b SHOW LICENSE/UNIT_REQUIREMENTS.  F It's that last "S" that got you.  I'd bet HELP SHOW LICENSE would have helped you.       A From:  machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark) on 05/30/2003 11:37 AM   5 Please respond to machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark)    To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:    Subject:    Re: Help with VMS      Thank you all for your help.  > The boot with min worked and I am able to log into the system!  E Tried the SHOW LICENSE/UNITS and for some reason it does not like the  /units part of the command.   C I was able to do a LICENSE LIST VAX-VMS/FULL command on the 3100/80 ; but it would not take it on the 3100/98 and the results are  UNITS 18 Availability A(VMS capacity) Options NO_SHAREA I guess this is not enought units for this to work on the 3100/98   " Here are the errors we are getting$ LICS-W-NOLOAD LICENSE WAS NOT LOADED= LICS-F-EXCEEDED ATTEMPTED USAGE EXCEEDS ACTIVE LICENSE LIMITS 2 LICS-E-NOAUTH   USE IS NOT AUTHORIZED ON THIS NODE  C What determines the node name on a machine? is it the license or do  you set that some where else?   D I notice now that we can get into the system when I do a show DKA itE only shows one drive but at the >>> prompt it sees all drive attached  any thoughts on this?       Mark    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:17:51 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>  Subject: Re: Help with VMS' Message-ID: <3ED7842F.9090909@MMaz.com>    Mark wrote:    >Thank you all for your help.  > ? >The boot with min worked and I am able to log into the system!  > F >Tried the SHOW LICENSE/UNITS and for some reason it does not like the >/units part of the command. > D >I was able to do a LICENSE LIST VAX-VMS/FULL command on the 3100/80< >but it would not take it on the 3100/98 and the results are	 >UNITS 18  >Availability A(VMS capacity)  >Options NO_SHARE B >I guess this is not enought units for this to work on the 3100/98 > # >Here are the errors we are getting % >LICS-W-NOLOAD LICENSE WAS NOT LOADED > >LICS-F-EXCEEDED ATTEMPTED USAGE EXCEEDS ACTIVE LICENSE LIMITS4 >LICS-E-NOAUTH   USE IS NOT AUTHORIZED ON THIS NODE  > D >What determines the node name on a machine? is it the license or do >you set that some where else? > E >I notice now that we can get into the system when I do a show DKA it F >only shows one drive but at the >>> prompt it sees all drive attached >any thoughts on this? > E That is because you booted in a minimum configuration and you didn't  G manually autoconfigure in the devices...  This appears to be very much  G 'over-your-head'  on rather basic VMS System Manager issues...  Before  G you dig a whole you cannot leave, you may want to seek some profession   help...    Barry    --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:08:28 +0100 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>  Subject: Re: Help with VMS8 Message-ID: <o80fdvkkv1f3c3ki7clphdm4k19gsci37g@4ax.com>  I On 30 May 2003 08:37:05 -0700, machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark) wrote:   D >I was able to do a LICENSE LIST VAX-VMS/FULL command on the 3100/80< >but it would not take it on the 3100/98 and the results are	 >UNITS 18  >Availability A(VMS capacity)  >Options NO_SHARE B >I guess this is not enought units for this to work on the 3100/98  D No.  From the /90 onwards (at least, not sure about the /85/88), VMS licenses are 60 units.  # >Here are the errors we are getting % >LICS-W-NOLOAD LICENSE WAS NOT LOADED > >LICS-F-EXCEEDED ATTEMPTED USAGE EXCEEDS ACTIVE LICENSE LIMITS4 >LICS-E-NOAUTH   USE IS NOT AUTHORIZED ON THIS NODE  > D >What determines the node name on a machine? is it the license or do >you set that some where else?  L Sysgen parameter SCSNODE.  But irrelevant if the license isn't "big enough".K Licenses can be restricted to a node, a list of nodes, or unrestricted (all $ this makes more sense in a cluster).  E >I notice now that we can get into the system when I do a show DKA it F >only shows one drive but at the >>> prompt it sees all drive attached >any thoughts on this?  J A minimum boot does not run any autoconfigure to detect devices other thanJ those needed during the boot sequence.  MC SYSGEN AUTO ALL should pop them up.      	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:56:11 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>  Subject: Re: Help with VMS5 Message-ID: <bb82fe$6ocoe$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   8 "Mark" <machinegunkelley@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht7 news:b3d4f0be.0305291611.1312ad0f@posting.google.com... D > We currently are running a microvax 3100/80 and decide it would beG > good to move to a faster computer so we purchased a microvax 3100/98. F > We thought that we could just restore our nightly image to the driveH > of the new unit and with a few minor adjustments to the systartup file > we would be off and running.$ > Well we have a few minor problems.= > We are running VMS 5.5-2 unlimited users with the Y2K patch  > D > A. when we boot we get some errors about our license not being forD > this computer.(we are keeping the old unit so I didnt really see aH > license problem with using it on this machine only.) is there a way toG > fix this license problem without a big hassle? I realy do not want to @ > have to reinstall anything as my knowledge of VMS is very very
 > limited.  J The 3100-98 is faster than the 3100-80 so it requires licenses with higher
 units for the G base OS and possibly the layered products. Try $ SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE to   determine what the system needs.  K Transferring licences is something special. I cannot recal what the current  rule are but don'tG be surprised if the OS license cannot be transferred to another system. ( If you do want to hack the license then:J - make sure that the SCSNODE name is set properly in the license database:-   $ LICENSE MODIFY VAX-VMS/EXCLUDE=<old name> -   $ LICENSE MODIFY VAX-VMS/INCLUDE=<new name> H   If the license has the attribute MOD_UNITS (not many VMS licenses have that), then:,   $ LICENSE MODIFY VAX-VMS/UNITS=<new value>B   You might need to add the qualifier /AUTH=<authorization string>    A > B. we need to fix the systartup_vms file but since this file is G > causing a boot problem I have to boot to sysboot and do a set/startup F > opa0: when in this mode I cant find a text editor to use I type EDTC. > but get an error like it cant find the file?  A If the problem is in systartup_vms then SET SYSTARTUP_P1 "MIN" is  sufficient. H systartup_vms will not run and you get a fully functional VMS. Run  $ MC
 SYSGEN A A /L : and all device drivers that may be missing will be loaded.J If you use set/startup you enter a very bare version of VMS and unless you know what do to,L that is a very inconvenient way to run VMS. Very few libraries are installed and the only wayL to get EDT working is to run INSTALL and install all required libraries with the appropriate  attributes.   = > C. We bought this unit with three 4 gig drives only one was F > initialized. I looked for a way to initialize them when I was at theE > standalone prompt but I dont think this can be done from here, also B > tried when in the opa0: mode but that didnt seem to work either.  G As said above, when you modify set/startup in sysboot then you get bare 
 bones VMS.J Don't expect to do anything useful with it, before you load the libraries.  E > D. I called HP(not much help) and was told that VMS 5.5-2 would notoE > work on this machine, that it had to be 5.5-2H4 or 6.1 and that youaH > could no longer buy either of these. I have heard of a patch for 5.5-2. > to make it H4 anyone know where to get this? >qH 5.5-2H4 is an update on top of 5.5-2. Pretty small, someone on this list might mail it to you.e I haven't got it unfortunately.eD In fact all you need is one file: the SYSLOAnnn.EXE for the 3100-98. >e% >  Any help would be much appreciated  >  >e >   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:00:50 -0700.# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e Subject: RE: Help with VMS9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENPHEAA.tom@kednos.com>    FWIW  5 This is a VAXstation 4000-90, hardware model type 379 I Type: A, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Capacity or OpenVMS Unlimited or  Base)p4 Type: B, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS F&A Server)9 Type: C, * Not Permitted *      (VAX/VMS Concurrent User) 5 Type: D, Units Required: 100    (VAX/VMS Workstation)oD Type: E, Units Required: 50     (VAX/VMS System Integrated Products)6 Type: F, Units Required: 10     (VAX Layered Products)* Type: G, * Not Permitted *      (Reserved)8 Type: H, * Not Permitted *      (Alpha Layered Products)2 Type: I, Units Required: 10     (Layered Products)   >-----Original Message----- 3 >From: John Laird [mailto:john@laird-towers.org.uk]e# >Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 9:08 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: Help with VMSf >s >eJ >On 30 May 2003 08:37:05 -0700, machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark) wrote: >:E >>I was able to do a LICENSE LIST VAX-VMS/FULL command on the 3100/80d= >>but it would not take it on the 3100/98 and the results aree
 >>UNITS 18 >>Availability A(VMS capacity) >>Options NO_SHAREC >>I guess this is not enought units for this to work on the 3100/98: >rE >No.  From the /90 onwards (at least, not sure about the /85/88), VMSe >licenses are 60 units.  >t$ >>Here are the errors we are getting& >>LICS-W-NOLOAD LICENSE WAS NOT LOADED? >>LICS-F-EXCEEDED ATTEMPTED USAGE EXCEEDS ACTIVE LICENSE LIMITS 4 >>LICS-E-NOAUTH   USE IS NOT AUTHORIZED ON THIS NODE >>E >>What determines the node name on a machine? is it the license or dol >>you set that some where else?: >:? >Sysgen parameter SCSNODE.  But irrelevant if the license isn'tr >"big enough".L >Licenses can be restricted to a node, a list of nodes, or unrestricted (all% >this makes more sense in a cluster).p >.F >>I notice now that we can get into the system when I do a show DKA itG >>only shows one drive but at the >>> prompt it sees all drive attached- >>any thoughts on this?l >eK >A minimum boot does not run any autoconfigure to detect devices other than'K >those needed during the boot sequence.  MC SYSGEN AUTO ALL should pop themp >up. >  >a >	John >, >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.a; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).hA >Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003  >p ---u& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 5/27/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:21:32 -0400a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Help with VMS) Message-ID: <3ED78507.5C235401@istop.com>    Mark wrote:dE > What determines the node name on a machine? is it the license or doi > you set that some where else?e   There are different places:n  % SYSGEN> SHOW SCSNODE  		-> clusteringh   SHOW LOG SYS$NODE  			-> decnet   " SHOW LOG TCPIP$INET_HOST		-> TCPIP   All are in configuration files.t  N A license can be set to be active on only one particular node. But you can useK the license command to change that. I would assume that LICENSE is based oncH SCSNODE (correct ?) since DECNET cannot be assumed to be always present.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:57:04 +0200h+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>e Subject: Re: Help with VMS5 Message-ID: <bb82h3$6ukbc$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>f  4 "Mark E. Levy" <melevy@attbi.com> schreef in bericht( news:RyzBa.168695$rt6.50472@sccrnsc02...A > "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> wrote in messager. > news:PzzBa.1648$m73.1190@news.cpqcorp.net... > >kL > > The number of units for your old machine is not enough to run on the newF > > machine.  You need to have your new machine legally licensed (yourL > > system may be so or it may not be) and have enough units for the license > > OPENVMS-ALPHA0 >1 > Um, it's a VAX, not an Alpha.< >oK > > It sounds as if hardware support for the new machine is not in your old2. > > version.  You will likely have to upgrade. >>I > Not necessarily. Most licenses of that era were shipped with MOD_UNITS.AK > While not necessarily *exactly* legal, just increase the number of units.dF > It's not like HP is being deprived of any revenue here, this is very likely9 > a canned application and it's not going to be upgraded.f >o  J Most VMS licenses (base OS) came without mod_units; no points for guessing why :-)    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:52:29 +0000 (UTC)i+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)t Subject: Re: Help with VMS+ Message-ID: <bb828c$p85$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>t  V In article <3ED78507.5C235401@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >Mark wrote:F >> What determines the node name on a machine? is it the license or do  >> you set that some where else? >w >There are different places: >c& >SYSGEN> SHOW SCSNODE  		-> clustering >D  >SHOW LOG SYS$NODE  			-> decnet >-# >SHOW LOG TCPIP$INET_HOST		-> TCPIPu >   >All are in configuration files. >tO >A license can be set to be active on only one particular node. But you can useyL >the license command to change that. I would assume that LICENSE is based onI >SCSNODE (correct ?) since DECNET cannot be assumed to be always present.>  3 Yes the SCSNODE is the official name of the system.IO The VMS license will be restricted to a particular node by the NO_SHARE option.v  A You can change what nodename a license is restricted to using thee  ) LICENSE MODIFY/INCLUDE=nodename  command.   < Alternatively you can change the SCSNODE name by editing the6 sys$system:modparams.dat file and then running autogen    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 08:24:30 -07002 From: vibroplex@mindspring.com (Derek Cohn/WB0TUA)( Subject: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC= Message-ID: <d7d0c297.0305300724.19528149@posting.google.com>s   Hi Friends,e  A I have a VAX Basic program that loads data into a one dimensional.F array (a list).  After I load the data into the array, I would like toC sort it before reading it.  I looked in the VAX Basic documentation-A and couldn't find anything resembling a BASIC command that sorts.   B Can any of you recommend a command that will allow me to order theD data in the list (ascending order) before reading it and handling it further?  & Thanks for any advice you can give me!  
 Derek Cohn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:05:45 -0400d From: norm.raphael@metso.com, Subject: Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC? Message-ID: <OFCADE3386.F3E1315B-ON85256D36.00585AB1@metso.com>s  ' Is this a(nother)  homework assignment?b   DIM A%(10),B%(10)u N%=10m N1%=N%-1 FOR I%=1 TO N1% STEP 1 FOR J%=I%+1 TO N% STEP 1 IF A%(I%) > A%(J%) THEN	 T%=A%(J%)h
 A%(J%)=A%(I%) 	 A%(I%)=T%k	 T%=B%(J%)n
 B%(J%)=B%(I%)n	 B%(I%)=T%  END IF NEXT J%r NEXT I%  END   J From:  vibroplex@mindspring.com (Derek Cohn/WB0TUA) on 05/30/2003 11:24 AM  > Please respond to vibroplex@mindspring.com (Derek Cohn/WB0TUA)   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:t  + Subject:    How to sort a list in VAX BASIC      Hi Friends,.  A I have a VAX Basic program that loads data into a one dimensionaldF array (a list).  After I load the data into the array, I would like toC sort it before reading it.  I looked in the VAX Basic documentationaA and couldn't find anything resembling a BASIC command that sorts.f  B Can any of you recommend a command that will allow me to order theD data in the list (ascending order) before reading it and handling it further?  & Thanks for any advice you can give me!  
 Derek Cohn   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:54:27 GMT@, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>, Subject: Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC6 Message-ID: <T8LBa.2$Rt3.1@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>  K Derek,  I've had good success using the VMS sort routines.  In the case you I are describing you may use the "record interface"  where pass the recordsn oneOK at a time to the sort routine (as they are read in?) and then get them back-= in the order you specify.  This method is very efficient too.m   The relevant doc chapter is at:a  L http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4493/4493pro_contents_003.html#toc_ch apter_19   Enjoy,  Jimg  ? "Derek Cohn/WB0TUA" <vibroplex@mindspring.com> wrote in messagel7 news:d7d0c297.0305300724.19528149@posting.google.com...o
 > Hi Friends,> >uC > I have a VAX Basic program that loads data into a one dimensional H > array (a list).  After I load the data into the array, I would like toE > sort it before reading it.  I looked in the VAX Basic documentationfC > and couldn't find anything resembling a BASIC command that sorts.n >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:08:13 -0400-! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>-, Subject: Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC8 Message-ID: <6d0fdvot0d0aspebefvc5j29adtjn86phe@4ax.com>  8 There is no such command, never has been, never will be.; thats because programming means you have to do it YOURSELF>e: that is, you have to write the code that does the sorting.  > so come on now, you are actually going to tell us you've never= written something as simple as a bubble sort? or quick sort ?r  0 I suggest you read, buy some books, and learn...   B.> On 30 May 2003 08:24:30 -0700, vibroplex@mindspring.com (Derek Cohn/WB0TUA) wrote:    >Hi Friends, >eB >I have a VAX Basic program that loads data into a one dimensionalG >array (a list).  After I load the data into the array, I would like tooD >sort it before reading it.  I looked in the VAX Basic documentationB >and couldn't find anything resembling a BASIC command that sorts. >mC >Can any of you recommend a command that will allow me to order the E >data in the list (ascending order) before reading it and handling it 	 >further?  >e' >Thanks for any advice you can give me!i >r >Derek Cohnt   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2003 17:25:51 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC5 Message-ID: <bb846v$6nqhk$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ? In article <OFCADE3386.F3E1315B-ON85256D36.00585AB1@metso.com>,h 	norm.raphael@metso.com writes:  > ) > Is this a(nother)  homework assignment?s  # In VAX basic, I seriously doubt it.r   bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   d   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 12:27:59 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC3 Message-ID: <TZj4Uu93FG6k@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  r In article <d7d0c297.0305300724.19528149@posting.google.com>, vibroplex@mindspring.com (Derek Cohn/WB0TUA) writes:
 > Hi Friends,r > C > I have a VAX Basic program that loads data into a one dimensionaleH > array (a list).  After I load the data into the array, I would like toE > sort it before reading it.  I looked in the VAX Basic documentationsC > and couldn't find anything resembling a BASIC command that sorts.e > D > Can any of you recommend a command that will allow me to order theF > data in the list (ascending order) before reading it and handling it
 > further?  C    I thought writing a sort was still programming 101.  It was just C    part of one homework problem I assigned when I taught an inhousef$    C for Fortran programmers course.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:01:51 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)  Subject: Re: Install Directory1 Message-ID: <jvJBa.1655$xv3.912@news.cpqcorp.net>   * In article <3ED6717F.8337003F@istop.com>, , JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  N >Note that last time I looked, Product Install had limited abilities to select) >the destination directories/devices. ...-  E This may be regarded as true if you are referring to the /DESTINATIONiE qualifier on the PRODUCT INSTALL command.  However, recent version offK the POLYCNETER Software Installation (PCSI) utility -- which are backportedtG to V6.2 and later -- have the capability to use interactive DCL commandeF procedures.  These can be used to copy files wherever you wish, and toG querry the installer for where to put them.  This is virtually the same>I work you do if you create a customer installation prodcuer for a product.    -- sJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:04:09 GMTy3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)' Subject: Re: Install Directory1 Message-ID: <txJBa.1657$xv3.174@news.cpqcorp.net>e  ? In article <20030529174429.21418.00000103@mb-m28.news.cs.com>, ,* ka2doug@cs.commoc.sc (DL Phillips) writes:   ..O > If the product is just a user-level application and requires no more than themN >creation of some directories and maybe the installation of a library or such, ..  C For such a product, a PCSI kit can be created from little more thanaA a list of the product's name and the files/libraries it includes.16 *MUCH* easier that VMSINSTAL or a custom installation.   -- iJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:35:37 +0200o$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> Subject: Re: Install Directory5 Message-ID: <bb7qcg$6qh7p$2@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de>   ( On 29-May-2003 16:38, Wendy Smith wrote:  D > What, if any, is the convention regarding the directory into whichM > third-party software should be loaded in preparation for an installation of I > the software? We are currently installing in [000000], and a client haseK > indicated it is "more appropriate" to install in SYS$MANAGER. I am new to G > the Alpha VMS world, and thus have no fact-based opinion of my own...a >  > I appreciate your response!s  B For copying installation kits to disk to make the installation run faster I preferl  # 	DISK$xxx:[KITS.<vendor>.<product>]   @ with "DISK$xxx" being a (non-system) disk with sufficient space,H "<vendor>" and "<product>" being the (short) names of the vendor and theF product; "<vendor>" may be omitted if there are just a few products of the same vendor.  C Another possibility is to use a sub-directory of SYS$UPDATE created ? specifically for each product -- but that's on the system disk.n  ( The final installation location could be   	DISK$xxx:[<vendor>.<product>]  $ with the same remarks as made above.   Michael2   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 07:54:42 -0700% From: wsmith@smausa.com (Wendy Smith)D Subject: Re: Install Directory= Message-ID: <57ee6a43.0305300654.104d16b3@posting.google.com>a  n ka2doug@cs.commoc.sc (DL Phillips) wrote in message news:<20030529174429.21418.00000103@mb-m28.news.cs.com>... > >>DL Phillips mumbled: /Q > >>  Yes, this is the digi-paqard way, but during the  2+ decades that I've beens >  aQ > >> TP software supplier of VMS applications I've found it unwise to rely on theE > >> whims of digi-paqard. > >  > >Larry Kilgallen protested: E > >Then you are going so strongly against the expectations of typicaleE > >system managers that the very notion of adhering to conventions is 
 > >absurd. > O >  When I, working as a system manager as I sometimes do, install any product IvP > always RTFIG and do what it says. I expect the product to install and work theM > way the Installation Guide says.  What other expectations should one have? n > N >  Just because Digital wrote an installer application doesn't mean that's theJ > only way to install any product.  It means we can expect that any HP-VMSO > product will probably use either VMSINTALL or maybe PRODUCT INSTALL dependingrN > upon what the Cover Sheet or Installation Guide says and who put it togetherP > and how old the product is and whether you're installing on VAX or Alpha or... > Q >  I don't follow your comment about "the  very notion of adhering to conventionst( > is absurd". Should I feel insulted?;-) > Q >  Okay, I'll revise my mumble. If the installation of a TP product requires that O > the system reboot, and/or that adjustment be made to any system parameters ortN > does any other such system-critical tinker , then the best and safest way toC > have the product install it via PRODUCT INSTALL (or VMSINSTALL). h > P >  If the product is just a user-level application and requires no more than theO > creation of some directories and maybe the installation of a library or such,rL > then just make sure the Installation Guide is clear and correct, and do itM > however you like. It's your application, not HP's. If you want to use their>  > installer, it's there for you. > Q >  I'd also like to appologize for my inconsiderate and possibly incorrect genderwN > specific reference to the original poster, Wendy Smith, who I referred to as > "he". Sorry, Wendy Smith.  >  >  DL Phillips  $ Wendy Smith responds to DL Phillips:E No apology is necessary - quite honestly, I did not notice the error.AD I simply appreciate all the feedback everyone has provided :) Have a
 great day!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:22:25 -0400s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Install Directory) Message-ID: <3ED77730.9EE77EDB@istop.com>-   Charlie Hammond wrote:G > This may be regarded as true if you are referring to the /DESTINATIONs, > qualifier on the PRODUCT INSTALL command.   N Can it now install files in $diskx[myproduct]  and then install a few files in+ sys$library ??? Last I looked it couldn't. o  I > to V6.2 and later -- have the capability to use interactive DCL commandC > procedures.     F It was my understanding that the command procedures are not usable forN prompting because you are not garanteed to see their output. (I think you need to use /TRACE and/or /LOG )i  K It sort of defeats the purpose of product install if you have to do all theeN work in the dcl subprocess because you need to copy files to different places.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:40:09 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)e Subject: Re: Install Directory1 Message-ID: <JPLBa.1666$6F3.495@news.cpqcorp.net>   V In article <3ED77730.9EE77EDB@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >Charlie Hammond wrote:eH >> This may be regarded as true if you are referring to the /DESTINATION- >> qualifier on the PRODUCT INSTALL command. t >eO >Can it now install files in $diskx[myproduct]  and then install a few files inb, >sys$library ??? Last I looked it couldn't.   F If you want to pick nits, I would have to answer "No, PRODUCT INSTALL C cannot to this."  However, a PRODUCT INSTALL operation can include I3 DCL commands that can do pretty much what you want.k  G >It was my understanding that the command procedures are not usable forhO >prompting because you are not garanteed to see their output. (I think you need  >to use /TRACE and/or /LOG )  ! That was true but no longer is.   : Command procedures can now be designated as "interactive".  L >It sort of defeats the purpose of product install if you have to do all theO >work in the dcl subprocess because you need to copy files to different places.   D If you have a lot of files that are uniformly distibuted to a lot ofF different places, then I cannot disagree with you.  On the other hand,F if most of your files go to a single place you can designate that withE the /DESTINATION qualifier and use DCL to locate elswhere those fileseE that need to be elsewhere.  So far as I know, there is no generalized/E way around this.  On the plus side, once you have DCL access, you can-7 do things that no installation utility ever thought of.    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:57:49 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> Subject: Re: Install Directory5 Message-ID: <bb84mb$71v3c$1@ID-152801.news.dfncis.de>e  ' On 30.05.2003 16:54, Wendy Smith wrote:e  p > ka2doug@cs.commoc.sc (DL Phillips) wrote in message news:<20030529174429.21418.00000103@mb-m28.news.cs.com>... >> [...] >> rR >>  I'd also like to appologize for my inconsiderate and possibly incorrect genderO >> specific reference to the original poster, Wendy Smith, who I referred to asv >> "he". Sorry, Wendy Smith. d >>   >>  DL Phillipsl > & > Wendy Smith responds to DL Phillips:G > No apology is necessary - quite honestly, I did not notice the error.uF > I simply appreciate all the feedback everyone has provided :) Have a > great day!  ( This reminds me of an old rumour (?) ...  H Some 20 or even 30 years ago there was a record "Switched-On Bach" whereE inventions and fugues of J.S.Bach were played on an early synthesizer D model. Obviously the producer assumed that noone would buy it if theH performer was a woman [*] the name was "modified" -- from "Wendy Carlos" to "Walter Carlos".2  ? [*] The old story of "Women cannot operate highly sophisticatedc (electronic) devices" ...g   But I'm digressing.1   Michael@   -- .  @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityC Updates"; this system isn't running the famous "Micro$oft Winwoes".W= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:24:59 -0700o' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>n5 Subject: Re: Mystery Alpha CPUS, what do they fit in?t8 Message-ID: <20030530102459.577a9cf9.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Thu, 29 May 2003 11:08:48 +0100+ "Matt Simis" <mattsimis@hotmail.com> wrote:f   > I just cant get a straightK > answer on why there seems to be an abundance of socket based cpus with noy > motherboards?   C According to news over the last week or so the Opteron is currentlymF in a similar state.  However, there will be motherboards for that soonE but there's never going to be another one made for these Alpha chips.i     > Does any one have a clue?   D Not the management of the companies that made these CPUs - otherwiseF they would have sold them in systems at retail rather than dumping the? essentially unusable CPUs (no mobo's) through channels one stept% shy of a dumpster.  It's particularly C odd that they aren't being sold with mobo's, since if those existedt= they'd be equally valueless without their CPU.  That tells me:? that the mobo's were never made and all of these Alpha CPUs are: just fancy paperweights.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:15:46 GMTr& From: Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz>' Subject: Re: Need OpenVMS (any version) 0 Message-ID: <CFN377714169917477@news.cup.hp.com>  X On 28 May 2003 19=3A01=3A04 +0200 holitska=5Fa=40cut-it-outludens=2Eelte=2Ehu =28Holi -  Holitska Andr=E1s=29 wrote=3AE@ =3E   Would be nice if Hobbyist CD-s were available in some sortH =3E   of download =28requiring decus membership=2C extra registration=2C@ =3E   e-mail =28or even plain mail!=29 check etc=2C etc=2E=29=2E? =3E   Only script-kiddies and newcomer hackers are dangerous=2Cd? =3E   but I don't think that they had a chance with VMS=2E OnlyoC =3E   the really good =28 =3D good at hacking=29 hackers could find A =3E   some holes and they are usally wiser than saying =22Hehe=2C @ =3E   now I'll kill that old VMS box and make them suffer!=22=2E =3E   L Few weeks ago somebody here stated that he downloaded the hobbyist image=2E 5 Unfortunatelly he did not specify from where=2E=2E=2EeQ It would not be a big problem to create such image and put it to my webserver=2C LA but I think there are some legal constraints from CPQ=2FHP=2E=2E r   W=2E   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:01:56 GMT"3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)e- Subject: Re: Needed, history of startup fileso2 Message-ID: <EnKBa.1661$xv3.1288@news.cpqcorp.net>  . In article <3ED67FE2.511FFAB@pressenter.com>, 0 Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:D >I've got a machine where all the startup files are all bulloxed up. ..3 >Tell me the story of these [startup] files please?   G The OpenVMS startup files are documented in the System Manger's manual.rA I suggest you study it to get an idea of what you want to get to.cE Then go through your existin startup files and more things where they > belong.  Unfortunately, there is no magic/easy way to do this.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:37:21 -0500c( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)- Subject: Re: Needed, history of startup filesn1 Message-ID: <03053010372196@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>s  0 > In article <3ED67FE2.511FFAB@pressenter.com>, 2 > Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:F > >I've got a machine where all the startup files are all bulloxed up.5 > >Tell me the story of these [startup] files please?: > I > The OpenVMS startup files are documented in the System Manger's manual. C > I suggest you study it to get an idea of what you want to get to.mG > Then go through your existin startup files and more things where they @ > belong.  Unfortunately, there is no magic/easy way to do this. > L >       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAH >           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.  I I do not know the history of the STARTUP process - I seem to remember theC6 LTLOAD - was that terminated V5.5?  I do not remember.  0 Regardless, here is the current order of things:   Order of startup processN This is a review of the VMS startup process.  The following command procedures3 are executed at system startup for all VMS servers.t   SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM   SYS$MANAGER:VMSIMAGES.DATw   SYS$MANAGER:SYSCONFIG.COM   *u  K This is an empty site-specific device configuration procedure.  If you havetM specific device configuration requirements at your site, you should place thet$ required commands in this procedure.   SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM   *  N This command procedures defines site-specific logical names.  It also contains% space for user-defined logical names.m  ! SYS$MANAGER:SYPAGSWPFILES.COM   *   * Install site-specific page and swap files.P This file is searched for and executed, if found, under ALL STARTUP conditions.  This includes a "minimum" boot.-   SYS$MANAGER:SYSECURITY.COM   *  O This command procedure is run prior to starting up the security auditing serverHK process.  Its purpose is to mount or define any disks which will be used to3M hold security auditing log files (primarily the system security audit journals& file) or local security archive files.  ! SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM   *   D This is the template for the site-specific startup command procedure   Other startup related processesR  ! SYS$MANAGER:LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM   *s  M Use this command procedure to customize the LAT characteristics for the local  node.h  N The command procedures above tagged with an asterisks (*) are the only commandI procedures that can be modified to configure the system environment.  AllEK others are not to be modified as to do so may cause an un-boot-able system.      John Brandon VMS Systems Administratorh Dallas Semiconductor first.last@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:51:57 +0100.( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)) Message-ID: <3ED70D9D.86C90572@127.0.0.1>e   Greg Cagle wrote:n >  > Bill Todd wrote: >    ...n  0 The question remains, what's gone wrong with NT?  D NT and VMS are worlds apart in what they can deliver in security andC stability. So what if even the Pope blessed the source code for NT,e# experience tells a different story.h   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesa nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:43:34 +0100eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>h< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)0 Message-ID: <bb794d$kkc$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nic Clews wrote: > Greg Cagle wrote:l >  >>Bill Todd wrote: >> >  >  > ...o > 2 > The question remains, what's gone wrong with NT? > F > NT and VMS are worlds apart in what they can deliver in security andE > stability. So what if even the Pope blessed the source code for NT, % > experience tells a different story.o >   7 NT and OpenVMS for that matter are a bit more than just 	 a kernel.   9 In the case of NT there are layers of crud that implementi9 the UI etc which don't come from OpenVMS. Some of this UIi< code is now in the kernel I think to improve performance and= when this happened (NT 4 If I remember) there were complaintst that relibility went down.  > There are however some parallels, NT's IP stack wasn't exactly= the best Microsoft bought it in and deficiencies in the stack0; POD originated on NT contributed to NT's poor stability and 	 security.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:05:38 GMTs9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> < Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)2 Message-ID: <6rKBa.1662$HA3.1439@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3ED70D9D.86C90572@127.0.0.1...t > Greg Cagle wrote:n > >t > > Bill Todd wrote: > >V >V > ...U ><2 > The question remains, what's gone wrong with NT? >e   Windows.  H Dave is a wiz at kernels, and the NT kernel is mostly a thing of beauty.I But on top of the kernel is layered the Windows environment.  It's warts,hJ plus all the questionable 3rd party drivers and software create a house of" cards that is easily knocked down.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:44:48 +0100 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>e< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)8 Message-ID: <aouedv8qvca09fnddg9bbucil2gu3msmar@4ax.com>  3 On Fri, 30 May 2003 15:05:38 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"l( <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote:  6 >"Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message$ >news:3ED70D9D.86C90572@127.0.0.1... >> Greg Cagle wrote: >>3 >> The question remains, what's gone wrong with NT?  >> > 	 >Windows.e >iI >Dave is a wiz at kernels, and the NT kernel is mostly a thing of beauty.wJ >But on top of the kernel is layered the Windows environment.  It's warts,K >plus all the questionable 3rd party drivers and software create a house of # >cards that is easily knocked down.e  K By "on top of" do you really mean "partly embedded in and also on top of" ? L Not getting the kernel and the UI completely separated is said to be the oneL argument that Dave Cutler lost.  By all accounts, he's not someone who gives
 in easily.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:07:59 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)J Message-ID: <zlLBa.291842$M81.116711@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "John Laird" <john@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote in message2 news:aouedv8qvca09fnddg9bbucil2gu3msmar@4ax.com...5 > On Fri, 30 May 2003 15:05:38 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"f* > <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote: >h8 > >"Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message& > >news:3ED70D9D.86C90572@127.0.0.1... > >> Greg Cagle wrote: > >>5 > >> The question remains, what's gone wrong with NT?k > >> > >- > >Windows.- > >-C > >Dave is a wiz at kernels, and the NT kernel is mostly a thing of@ beauty.mE > >But on top of the kernel is layered the Windows environment.  It'sA warts,D > >plus all the questionable 3rd party drivers and software create a house of% > >cards that is easily knocked down.C >cC > By "on top of" do you really mean "partly embedded in and also on 	 top of" ?AF > Not getting the kernel and the UI completely separated is said to be the oneiD > argument that Dave Cutler lost.  By all accounts, he's not someone	 who givesV > in easily.    > I think you got that correct. Performance tends to suffer whenC security/isolation rings are present and have to be adhered to. TheiD Windows GUI sucks a lot of processing and I believe that in order toF provide acceptable user perception of 'performance', eg. snappy window? instantiation, mouse response, and a few other user perceptible8# events, some compromises were made.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:10:38 GMTg" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)0 Message-ID: <00A20A2C.F36BC8CB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <6rKBa.1662$HA3.1439@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:6 >"Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message$ >news:3ED70D9D.86C90572@127.0.0.1... >> Greg Cagle wrote: >> > >> > Bill Todd wrote:s >> > >> >> ... >>3 >> The question remains, what's gone wrong with NT?O >> >D	 >Windows.E >EI >Dave is a wiz at kernels, and the NT kernel is mostly a thing of beauty.SJ >But on top of the kernel is layered the Windows environment.  It's warts,K >plus all the questionable 3rd party drivers and software create a house ofa# >cards that is easily knocked down.h  J In otherwords, no matter how cleanly bathed you may be, if you're covered % over with shit you're going to smell.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:30:27 -0400s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>< Subject: Re: NT: son of VMS? (was Re: Portents of VMS death)) Message-ID: <3ED7871E.5529507E@istop.com>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:eK > In otherwords, no matter how cleanly bathed you may be, if you're coveredo' > over with shit you're going to smell.   K which is where Apple succeeded where microsoft failed: set proper standards./ and "force" people to abide by those standards.i  N Seems to me that in order to support their smelly legacy, Microsoft forced the, smelly legacy onto NT, making NT smelly too.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:51:39 +0100cO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> " Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death0 Message-ID: <bb79ji$kqm$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Jason Brady wrote:9 > On Wed, 21 May 2003 20:33:39 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"c  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  >  >>mist dragon wrote: >>	 >>>[snip]T >>>If you look atcH >>>the new HP superdome servers, do you think those are gonna run iVMS ?) >>>No. VMS just does not scale up enough.o >>I >>Excuse me? Show me *ANY* other o.s. running production databases in thetG >>hundreds of gigabytes, even into the terabytes. VMS scales as well or-0 >>better than any other or example you can cite. >> >  >  > David, > G > Don't forget IBM mainframes running MVS (or Z/os or whatever it's now8B > called).  I've heard that the U.S. Treasury department has a DB2F > database containing a table of over a billion rows.  My employer hasE > production DB2 and IMS databases in the tens of gigabytes, probablysF > more.  DB2 and MVS can certainly be considered "industrial strength"H > operating system and database platforms.  I'd place VMS and Rdb there,G > too.  No experience with other platforms out there except for WindozeoA > (and it certainly cannot be considered "industrial strength.").- >    Tsk Tsk.  F One of the systems I am responsible for has a table that contains ~1.3$ billion rows. It changes every week.   Regards. Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:48:43 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS deathJ Message-ID: <vyHBa.287946$M81.239727@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messaged/ news:bb6efe$69e7i$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...l > In article? <GdvBa.303776$w7k.215749@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,-' > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:, > >aE > > d) Simply that all the people who knew VMS at that shop have leftb anduF > > the people that are there today know only enough about VMS to keepD > > their app limping along in status quo mode because they all went to@ > > colleges/universities where only unix and Windows were used. >aB > Some of us are still trying to change this, but not getting much helpD > there either.  I find it amazing that the current Hobbyist License canSD > be used for initial development of potentially commercial products and F > yet education is still saddled with a totally unacceptable licensing > program.  :-(r    E It's all part of the long-term Master plan for VMS, whatever that mayd be.m   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 07:25:56 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death= Message-ID: <7500353b.0305300625.19d1547b@posting.google.com>y  J > You must have a very good information source, Oh Dragon.  Please tell us > how you know this.   And why would I ?d  = > Did I say that?  I didn't know dragons were ventriloquists.   7 And I didnt know they are pathalogical or nincompoops. i  F > Sure.  I've always gotten good advice from reptiles.  (Dragons _are_ > reptiles, aren't they?)-   Would I lie to you :)M  O > I can't address your performance problems based on the available information.:  4 No need. There are no problems left, e.g. no vms :)   I > But HP offers test-drives and dedicated labs to help customers and ISVscK > build, test, and tune suitable VMS configurations.  A variety of hardwarea
 > is offered. J > A common experiment is to compare the previous generation of big systems > with the latest ones.   E yes I know. That was what was done. But again, they did not make it.    D The few specific statements you've made about the innards of VMS are	 quite fard2  from reality, so why should I take you seriously?   You dont. We are even.  E > Well, name the configurations and the workloads.  Tell us where thee) > bottleneck is.  Tell us what you tried.o   Was. l  C The case is closed and vms lost it. Reitration of what, how and whyOB does not bear any fruit. There is no way customer is going back to vms.C However, this case showed very well of how it performs and claiming1 that; vms is best performer in the world is just marketing talk.    ? I am sure that new versions arrive on both camps and situations  change. C But every time vms looses, the new tests are performed among unixes  and nothB against vms. And there are very few who would put serious money onE testing that - I'd say those willing to test are the ones who already C have vms and want to see how it compares against *nix and not thosea7 running on *nix and wanting to compare it to something.o  C Otoh, what is the conclusion of this discussion ? I pointed out thekE main real problems that were there all I get is to ask to point exactoE location, load and other figures so that someone out there would then F show the 'higher' knowledge of how badly these people did their jobs ?D Right ? The amount of data is massive and very pedantic and it wouldE take hundreds of pages just to show it off and do you seriously think-/ I would put that to public newsgroup ? Come on.3  F People dont perform major tests for weeks for just fun and everyone onF the site loved vms and they had to proof their case against managementE so I doubt very much anyone did nail it down for incompetence or willuC of trying. VMS dvl people did their best afaik but still the systemr# did not reach the figures unix did.    Mist   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 07:38:00 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m Subject: R.I.P. Netscape3 Message-ID: <IP0PYg7SVg$U@eisner.encompasserve.org>4      OK, so I'm exagerating,      a little,  	    maybe.i   ------------------------------   Date: 30 May 2003 13:14:32 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: R.I.P. Netscape5 Message-ID: <bb7lfo$6ohk2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>i  3 In article <IP0PYg7SVg$U@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >  >    OK, so I'm exagerating, >  >    a little, >  >    maybe.n  i( I don't get it??  Did I miss something??   bill   -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:34:56 +0100O* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: R.I.P. Netscape, Message-ID: <bb7mm1$11j2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageo/ news:bb7lfo$6ohk2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...o >b* > I don't get it??  Did I miss something??  T AOL Time Warner took the money and ran: http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1011296.htmlS "Microsoft will help AOL distribute CDs." -  I thought that was AOLs core business.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:47:40 GMTe8 From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to> Subject: Re: R.I.P. Netscape4 Message-ID: <3ED760EA.4582BE33@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>   >Bill Gunshannon wrote:   7 > > In article <IP0PYg7SVg$U@eisner.encompasserve.org>, F > >      koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > >    OK, so I'm exagerating, > >    a little,
 > >    maybe.-* > I don't get it??  Did I miss something??L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   Jerome Fine replies:  ; Microsoft paid the company that owns Netscape $ 750 Million @ to settle the anti-trust law suit - or at least the finding that; Microsoft acted unlawfully when it combined IE with Windowse: PLUS "persuaded" suppliers to NOT carry or supply Netscape: to users who preferred Netscape.  Or something very close?  , http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1011296.html  E But Microsoft is still in operation and Netscape is no longer viable.r  < From what I understand, it seems that Microsoft was found to; have committed a crime and both Microsoft and the owners oft? Microsoft were able to use the proceeds of their actions to buy@E their way out of the problem.  Or at least that is what I have heard!e0 Or is that just the spin from the above article?  + Does that seem to be a reasonable solution?   > Of course, that seems to be how the US justice system seems to@ work, not that I suspect that the Canadian justice system is any2 better.  Are you aware of the Bromfman Trust case?  ; Of course, maybe I don't understand the situation correctlyrC since I am not a lawyer.  But do I observe that since January 2001,l- Microsoft seems to be doing a bit better?????r  7 But your 4 way vote suggestion seems to suggest you areh aware of all of this - YES????   Sincerely yours,   Jerome Finer --4 To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove5 the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'.o8 If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail7 address has been discontinued due a high volume of junkn5 e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can beM7 obtained by replacing the four characters preceding thes. 'at' with the four digits of the current year.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:57:55 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: R.I.P. Netscape+ Message-ID: <bb7o14$pcu@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>v  C "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to> wrote in messageh. news:3ED760EA.4582BE33@b9rvnospamcompsys.to...  > > From what I understand, it seems that Microsoft was found to= > have committed a crime and both Microsoft and the owners ofsA > Microsoft were able to use the proceeds of their actions to buyuG > their way out of the problem.  Or at least that is what I have heard!s  @ It was a civil case: if you're the victim of a crime you may getG compensation: that's how it works. It's up to the public authorities top seek criminal sanctions.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 May 2003 07:43:01 -0700% From: a.greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)a, Subject: Re: What's happened to Alan Greig ?= Message-ID: <af3b9b31.0305300643.7ab6270a@posting.google.com>e  d Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message news:<vd9f126n2167ea@corp.supernews.com>...- > Haven't seen any postings from him in ages.) > 0 > I hope nothing "untoward" has happened to him.   Don't worry I'm still alive!  D I left my previous employer on 31st January. Our main production VMSC systems are due to be shut down on Dec 31st 2003 and be replaced byeE Windows 2000 servers running SAP based in Norway. Best I left while Ib still had a choice...M  = Usually still browse c.o.v but haven't felt much like posting A recently. Been playing with Linux and various bits and pieces andUE taking some time to consider what I want to do next. Try to stay withn4 VMS or maybe start chasing network and/or Unix work?  F But for the moment I'm still, as they say in the art world, "resting".  E My virgin.net account now receives around 80 spams a day and has also:B been used as the fake from address in mass spammings. Thus I oftenA miss real mail sent to that address. Don't want to give out otherfC address in a public post but I'll email a better contact address ifa anyone asks! > Roy Omonde > Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.298 ************************t haseK > indicated it is "more appropriate" to install in SYS$MANAGER. I am new to G > the Alpha VMS world, and thus have no fact-based opinion of my own...a >  > I appreciate your response!s  B For copying installation kits to disk to make the installation run faster I preferl  # 	DISK$xxx:[KITS.<vendor>.<product>]   @ with "DISK$xxx" being a (non-system) disk with sufficient space,H "<vendor>" and "<product>" being the (short) names of the vend                                                                                          A                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          L>     * 0n* + J(   tB!P@G        @    gB33        nBff       nBff    gB33    [B33`  L?XB  ffL?A  
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