1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 31 May 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 300       Contents:- ANSI tapes and VMS - was: Invalid Disk format ( Re: Decserver 700 software on CD or DDS?( Re: Decserver 700 software on CD or DDS? Re: eXcursion RAS Mystery  Re: eXcursion RAS Mystery ; FTP access to DCL stuff (Kevin Barkes? He's still around??)  Re: Help with VMS  Re: Help with VMS & Re: How to make a shadowed system disk# Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC  Re: Need OpenVMS (any version)$ Re: Needed, history of startup files+ Re: Needing to upgrade from AXP VMSv7.1-1h2  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death  Re: Portents of VMS death $ Samba + Multinet: The Saga continues( Re: Samba + Multinet: The Saga continues, Re: SYS$QIOW - Wtih more Details - Final Try, Re: SYS$QIOW - Wtih more Details - Final Try, Re: SYS$QIOW - Wtih more Details - Final Try  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 31 May 03 09:29:58 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 6 Subject: ANSI tapes and VMS - was: Invalid Disk format) Message-ID: <9ZOMXxDj8qwh@elias.decus.ch>   f In article <mi5cdv02icmuskef3a6uo24sjgtmatilhn@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:H > On Thu, 29 May 2003 14:18:09 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > wrote: > & >>> Aren't those qualifiers for tapes? >>J >>Yes, but they appear to apply to disks as well. Been there, seen it, hadG >>to do it, found it successful*. Both NT and OSF formatted disks don't G >>agree with the VMS file system. However it makes some sense that INIT < >>would try to read before performing the required function. > I > But only to see if any recognised file system (so ODS only) was present I > which contained security information to be checked.  Foreign rubbish is N > foreign rubbish is foreign rubbish, and can be wiped.  Tapes are a differentG > matter in that ANSI standards exist - iirc there isn't a VMS-specific 5 > format, all tapes written with VMS conform to ANSI.  >   J Slight correction on the tape matter. Whilst VMS does conform to ANSI whenJ writing tapes mounted non-foreign, you can do what you wish when you mountF them as foreign. In a sense you are right though, as even EBCDIC tapesL follow the ANSI tape labelling standards, albeit using a different code set.  K (The rules change completely when dealing with seismological tapes, as they I have unlimited block sizes, and you need special tape hardware and device  drivers to overcome that :-))    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2003 07:57:43 -0700% From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) 1 Subject: Re: Decserver 700 software on CD or DDS? = Message-ID: <ea44f5a1.0305310657.1c3705a9@posting.google.com>   Y briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in message news:<KucVpB4WKp01@eisner.encompasserve.org>... g > In article <ea44f5a1.0305190500.782a32e0@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes: F > > Where can I get the installation kit on a CD or DDS tape or on the > > web? > > J > > Or can I just copy files from an existing system where the software is- > > installed without bothering with the kit.  > F > All you need to make a DECserver 700 work is a copy of the DECserverC > software, e.g. SYS$SYSROOT:[DECSERVER]WWENG2.SYS stored someplace E > where it can be downloaded on demand by the DECserver at boot time.  > E > And, of course, you need to configure your load host (BOOTP or MOP) # > with the appropriate information.  >  > 	John Briggs  I I installed DS7C011 from the distribution and I got WWENG1.SYS instead of  WWENG2.SYS.    Will that work?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:51:26 GMT . From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)1 Subject: Re: Decserver 700 software on CD or DDS? 3 Message-ID: <i45Ca.30498$_c6.219490@news.chello.at>   e In article <ea44f5a1.0305310657.1c3705a9@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes: J >I installed DS7C011 from the distribution and I got WWENG1.SYS instead of >WWENG2.SYS.  C WWENG1.SYS is the original software for the DECserver700, while the H WWENG2.SYS is the Network Access Software for the DECserver 700 and 900.  E If you need features of the DNAS (like Appletalk, IPX, KERBEROS, PPP, G RADIUS, RLOGIN, SECURID, TD/SMP, TN3270, ...) then WWENG1.SYS is surely L not sufficient, otherwise it will work, while DNAS - requiring more memory -7 might not fit into _your_ version of the DECserver 700.    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 08:53:03 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: eXcursion RAS Mystery3 Message-ID: <P3_Ba.20002$_c6.150653@news.chello.at>   Z In article <3ED82F8F.78704C6@brandx.net>, terrence golden <terrygolden@brandx.net> writes:+ >I'm having a problem access my VMS servers + >through eXcursion when using a RAS server. 2 >At first it was that the net admins didn't config( >a rexec port. Now rexec works fine, but- >$cre/term/det doesn't create a window on the @ >client (PC running eXterm Piece of Crap Home). when I do a $set0 >display/cre/node=ipadr/trans=tcpip it completes1 >successfully but again no display. $cre/term/det / >fails with can't create display error. The tcp / >logs don't show any errors. It works fine when 1 >you're inside the firewall, as in not USING RAS.  >  >Any ideas? Thanks in advance.  A Try accessing the IP address first (with PING and/or TRACEROUTE)) G Then try to access the X11 server on the PC (with TELNET to port 6000). M Then try to check the X11 security on the PC (eg. use DECW$EXAMPLES:ICO.EXE).   , Try also to explain your problem better. eg. What was the error message ?  What versions of which product ? What is "tcp logs" ?   HIH    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:49:35 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> " Subject: Re: eXcursion RAS Mystery5 Message-ID: <bb9trj$73c8m$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   = "terrence golden" <terrygolden@brandx.net> schreef in bericht # news:3ED82F8F.78704C6@brandx.net... , > I'm having a problem access my VMS servers, > through eXcursion when using a RAS server.3 > At first it was that the net admins didn't config ) > a rexec port. Now rexec works fine, but . > $cre/term/det doesn't create a window on theA > client (PC running eXterm Piece of Crap Home). when I do a $set 1 > display/cre/node=ipadr/trans=tcpip it completes 2 > successfully but again no display. $cre/term/det0 > fails with can't create display error. The tcp0 > logs don't show any errors. It works fine when2 > you're inside the firewall, as in not USING RAS. >  > Any ideas? Thanks in advance.  > - Did your net admins create port 6000 as well?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:57:09 -0500 % From: "Kevin G. Barkes" <kgb@kgb.com> D Subject: FTP access to DCL stuff (Kevin Barkes? He's still around??)+ Message-ID: <bbajb50dga@enews1.newsguy.com>   < In response to overwhelming demand (well, both of you), I've1 made it possible to ftp the archived DCL stuff at  http://www.kgb.com/dcl.html   < My hosting company doesn't permit anonymous ftp access, so I< created an ftpuser@kgb.com account. Visit the web page above9 and scroll to the bottom for login instructions and other ; pertinent information. Note that after you log in, you have ( to explicitly cd to the files directory.  < Another hint: At the top right hand side of the DCL Dialogue: web page is a search utility which might make it easier to find what you're looking for.   : I'm not dead yet. In fact, I recently became a grandfather: for the first time ( http://www.kgb.com/scooter2.jpg ) and8 shuttle between Pittsburgh and Chicago, where I work for; Datalogics ( http://www.datalogics.com ) and support the DL : Pager composition system. April 22, 2003 marked my 20 year7 anniversary working with VMS and Pager; April 23 was my : granddaughter's birthday.  (My daughter actually went into< labor on April 22, but you know how slow old technology is.)   Hmm. What else...   6 Alas, the end of an era: I'm finally out of I Love DCL	 stickers.   : I do scan comp.os.vms from time to time, but if you want a" rapid response, email me directly.  3 We now return you to our regularly scheduled ennui.    --   Regards,   KGB    -----  Kevin G. Barkes % Email: kgb@kgb.com | Web: www.kgb.com  KGB Report:  http://www.kgb.com National Temperature Index: # http://nationaltemperatureindex.com  DCL Dialogue on line:  http://www.kgb.com/dcl.html  Random Quotations Generator: http://www.goodquotations.com " Over 10,000 searchable quotations.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2003 04:54:59 -0700) From: machinegunkelley@hotmail.com (Mark)  Subject: Re: Help with VMS= Message-ID: <b3d4f0be.0305310354.7a57f5cd@posting.google.com>   F You people are great, its not often you find so many people willing toE help someone out. As stated in one of the messages here I am probably C in way over my head but I have learned alot and will probably learn 8 alot more before we finally get all this up and running.D I didnt investigate enough before we bought the box thinking that weD could just restore an image from the model 80 onto the 98 make a fewC adjustments to the systartup_v5 file run sysgen and we would be off  and running.C Acutally if it wasnt for the license issue and with the help I have . received here that probably would have worked.A Per one of the messages here I have contaced HP to find out about D getting the license moved over so we will see what they have to say.C I still think I might try to get the other two drives working on my  own.( Somone mentioned here that you could do   F test 75            (scsi low-level format and verify on MicroVAX 3100)  =       but be careful with the questions about SCSI-Bus and ID    E I noticed the be careful statement, is this something you think I can ' acomplish without messing something up. C Will it just be asking which SCSI bus which I belive would be A and > which SCSI ID which would be ID 0 and ID 1 for DKA0 and DKA100  ' Again I thank everyone for their input!       Mark             h "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote in message news:<bb82fe$6ocoe$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>...: > "Mark" <machinegunkelley@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht9 > news:b3d4f0be.0305291611.1312ad0f@posting.google.com... F > > We currently are running a microvax 3100/80 and decide it would beI > > good to move to a faster computer so we purchased a microvax 3100/98. H > > We thought that we could just restore our nightly image to the driveJ > > of the new unit and with a few minor adjustments to the systartup file  > > we would be off and running.& > > Well we have a few minor problems.? > > We are running VMS 5.5-2 unlimited users with the Y2K patch  > > F > > A. when we boot we get some errors about our license not being forF > > this computer.(we are keeping the old unit so I didnt really see aJ > > license problem with using it on this machine only.) is there a way toI > > fix this license problem without a big hassle? I realy do not want to B > > have to reinstall anything as my knowledge of VMS is very very > > limited. > L > The 3100-98 is faster than the 3100-80 so it requires licenses with higher > units for the I > base OS and possibly the layered products. Try $ SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE to " > determine what the system needs. > M > Transferring licences is something special. I cannot recal what the current  > rule are but don'tI > be surprised if the OS license cannot be transferred to another system. * > If you do want to hack the license then:L > - make sure that the SCSNODE name is set properly in the license database:/ >   $ LICENSE MODIFY VAX-VMS/EXCLUDE=<old name> / >   $ LICENSE MODIFY VAX-VMS/INCLUDE=<new name> J >   If the license has the attribute MOD_UNITS (not many VMS licenses have > that), then:. >   $ LICENSE MODIFY VAX-VMS/UNITS=<new value>D >   You might need to add the qualifier /AUTH=<authorization string> >  > C > > B. we need to fix the systartup_vms file but since this file is I > > causing a boot problem I have to boot to sysboot and do a set/startup H > > opa0: when in this mode I cant find a text editor to use I type EDTC0 > > but get an error like it cant find the file? > C > If the problem is in systartup_vms then SET SYSTARTUP_P1 "MIN" is 
 > sufficient. J > systartup_vms will not run and you get a fully functional VMS. Run  $ MC > SYSGEN A A /L < > and all device drivers that may be missing will be loaded.L > If you use set/startup you enter a very bare version of VMS and unless you > know what do to,N > that is a very inconvenient way to run VMS. Very few libraries are installed > and the only wayN > to get EDT working is to run INSTALL and install all required libraries with > the appropriate 
 > attributes.  > ? > > C. We bought this unit with three 4 gig drives only one was H > > initialized. I looked for a way to initialize them when I was at theG > > standalone prompt but I dont think this can be done from here, also D > > tried when in the opa0: mode but that didnt seem to work either. > I > As said above, when you modify set/startup in sysboot then you get bare  > bones VMS.L > Don't expect to do anything useful with it, before you load the libraries. > G > > D. I called HP(not much help) and was told that VMS 5.5-2 would not G > > work on this machine, that it had to be 5.5-2H4 or 6.1 and that you J > > could no longer buy either of these. I have heard of a patch for 5.5-20 > > to make it H4 anyone know where to get this? > > J > 5.5-2H4 is an update on top of 5.5-2. Pretty small, someone on this list > might mail it to you. ! > I haven't got it unfortunately. F > In fact all you need is one file: the SYSLOAnnn.EXE for the 3100-98. > > ' > >  Any help would be much appreciated  > >  > > 
 > >   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:33:01 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>  Subject: Re: Help with VMS5 Message-ID: <bbaaui$7e9c5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   6 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> schreef in bericht' news:30MAY200318463566@gerg.tamu.edu... 1 > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes... F > }The 3100-98 is faster than the 3100-80 so it requires licenses with higher > }units for theJ > }base OS and possibly the layered products. Try $ SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE to# > }determine what the system needs.  > F > This relationship is not universal. For example, an XP900 requires aL > 12 unit VMS license, but the (much) slower DEC 3000m600 requires 20 units. > G > It pretty much depends on how the system is classified at the time it ; > is/was new. They rarely, if ever, change them after that.  > 
 > --- Carl  H That is correct. When LMF was shipped (VMS 5.0 IIRC) there was a more orJ less relationship between the units needed for an A license (VMS capacity)H and the VUPS rating of the system. So a VAX 8550 and a VAX 6410 used theI same license. Then the VAX cpu's became a lot faster and the (calculated) F number of units went up. DEC therafter classified the systems in threeG groups, and issued A licenses according to that. AFAIK that resulted in L recalculated, lower values for certain systems. It also happened only once I guess.  K I'm not familiar with the XP900, but isn't that a workstation? Units for an D A license cannot be compared to D (workstation) licenses (nor server licenses for that matter).   ------------------------------   Date: 31 May 03 09:09:01 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) / Subject: Re: How to make a shadowed system disk ) Message-ID: <r1cC$gAJAvrQ@elias.decus.ch>   a In article <4tdcdv48ei9fuv4be2m5hpk4v9r5gh3g1e@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes: I > On 29 May 03 07:21:05 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:  > E >>Not so much rare, as unsupported, and has been that way for years.   >>> >>SYSGEN HELP Sys_Parameters SHADOWING no longer documents it. > " > Well, it does on my V7.3 system: > , > $ mcr sysgen help sys_parameters shadowing >  > SYS_PARAMETERS > 
 >   SHADOWING  > G >        SHADOWING enables or disables shadowing and specifies the mode F >        of shadowing operations that you want to enable. SHADOWING isE >        a value that specifies the type of disk class driver that is J >        loaded on the system: DUDRIVER, DSDRIVER, or SHDRIVER. See VolumeH >        Shadowing for OpenVMS for more information about setting system) >        parameters for volume shadowing.  > - >        Specify one of the following values:  >  >        Value  Description  > H >        0      No shadowing is enabled; SHDRIVER is not loaded. This is" >               the default value. > H >        2      Phase II shadowing enabled. SHDRIVER is loaded. Phase IIF >               shadowing provides shadowing of all disks located on a? >               standalone system or an OpenVMS Cluster system.  > I >        Note that a parameter value of 1 represents Phase I, which is no ; >        longer supported. Instead, use Phase II shadowing. I          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   > If you had not snipped the first part of my post, referring toA SHADOWING=1, that is precisely what I meant. V7.3-1 on Alpha does ! not have that last paragraph BTW.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 31 May 2003 17:23:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: How to sort a list in VAX BASIC5 Message-ID: <bbaoei$7dipa$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   5 In article <bb8kps$71nm0$1@id-143435.news.dfncis.de>, . 	"Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:M > Don't be surprised: the other day I was asked (requested) to send an Ultrix N > kit to a student who had to build a web page on a VAXstation3100 that had toC > run Ultrix. If it is true then this is entirely understandable...   B I would be surprised.  No reputable school I know of would requireB students to use un-licensed, stolen software for legitimate schoolB work.  You can not get a license for any version of VAX Ultrix andB the owner absolutely refuses to allow any form of un-licensed use.B The copyright holder recommends the use of NetBSD if you need Unix	 on a VAX.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2003 19:01:28 +0200B From: holitska_a@cut-it-outludens.elte.hu (Holi - Holitska Andrs)' Subject: Re: Need OpenVMS (any version) ! Message-ID: <00an2iC7yq7H@ludens>   Y In article <CFN377714169917477@news.cup.hp.com>, Woland <weiland@no.spam.post.cz> writes: Z > On 28 May 2003 19=3A01=3A04 +0200 holitska=5Fa=40cut-it-outludens=2Eelte=2Ehu =28Holi -  > Holitska Andr=E1s=29 wrote=3A B > =3E   Would be nice if Hobbyist CD-s were available in some sortJ > =3E   of download =28requiring decus membership=2C extra registration=2CB > =3E   e-mail =28or even plain mail!=29 check etc=2C etc=2E=29=2EA > =3E   Only script-kiddies and newcomer hackers are dangerous=2C A > =3E   but I don't think that they had a chance with VMS=2E Only E > =3E   the really good =28 =3D good at hacking=29 hackers could find C > =3E   some holes and they are usally wiser than saying =22Hehe=2C B > =3E   now I'll kill that old VMS box and make them suffer!=22=2E > =3E  > N > Few weeks ago somebody here stated that he downloaded the hobbyist image=2E 7 > Unfortunatelly he did not specify from where=2E=2E=2E S > It would not be a big problem to create such image and put it to my webserver=2C  C > but I think there are some legal constraints from CPQ=2FHP=2E=2E    "   Sadly, there are legal issues...  D   Currently you can't put even hobbyist CDs out to the net, not evenG   for your domain/friends/etc., but of course I'm sure there are people E   who do sharing none the less (((spelled correctl?))), maybe on some >   popular free file sharing network like KaZaA or eDonkey2000.  C   Of course you can ( = it is possible) share a CD image illegally, F   but it would be much better if HP/Compaq would make OpenVMS HobbyistD   really OPEN to the community (at least in binary form... full freeE   source code will remain a dream for a long long time I fear... even    for the VAX version).   G   If it would be legal, I would put it on our site too. 'OpenVMS served @   to the community by an OpenVMS system.' Sounds really nice. :]   > W=2E   Bye: <Holi>    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:39:52 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> - Subject: Re: Needed, history of startup files 5 Message-ID: <bbabbc$75dh2$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   D Others have posted answers; this is what my memory thinks it was :-)  = "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> schreef in bericht ' news:3ED67FE2.511FFAB@pressenter.com... E > I've got a machine where all the startup files are all bulloxed up.  > . > The system is currently runing Alpha VMS 7.2 >  > 2 > It's been upgraded at least once, probably more. >  > H > Anyway the startup files are layers of one .com file doing nothing but? > calling a second file, which does nothing but call a third...  >  > < > If I remember correcly, sylogicals.com, systartup_vms.com,; > lat$systartup.com, etc. have been a relatively new thing.  > I The startup files named SY*.COM are called by SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM. DEC G recommended that you edit these files, e.g. to mount disks. I never did I that, for the simple reason that you can stop SYSTARTUP*.COM from running L thru SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN". AFAIK you have no control over the SYLOGICALS.COM file or its nephews.    I > But I can't remember the genieology of them. When did Lat$systartup.com ' > become the prefered file over ltload.   J VMS 5.4, possibly 5.4-3 since that was actually a new VMS version in terms of impact on us customers..   A > If I remember correctly sylogicals.com superseded setuplog.com. F > Setuplog.com used to be called from within the systartup.com. But atF > some point, sylogicals, get created, and was called independently of > systartup.com.  ' That happend at VMS 5.0 or 5.3 I think.   4 > systartup.com was superseded by systartup_vms.com. >  > * > Tell me the story of these files please? >  >  > Thanks in advance, >  >  > Lyndon >  > --  I > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my  > employer.  > G My memory is mine alone too; not as reliable as I'd wanted it to be :-) J > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:18:36 +0200 . From: "Thomas H. Pauli" <thomaspauli@arcor.de>4 Subject: Re: Needing to upgrade from AXP VMSv7.1-1h2, Message-ID: <oprp02pad1loujp4@news.arcor.de>  L We went from v7.2-2 to V7.3-1 lastly without a glitch. Only problem was ftp F with TCP/IP V5.3 ECO 2 with enhanced security over firewalls (one can I switch that off with logicals). We always load all available patches and  ' install them directly after the new OS.   	 Good luck  Thomas  1 On Thu, 29 May 2003 23:34:54 GMT, Teri Lyn Smith  " <poodleskirt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:  G > Anyone with experience going from v7.1-1h2 to a current (read 'latest G > supported and least buggy') AXP VMS please email me with cavaets and  	 > advice.  > 1 > I hate to fix what isn't broken but must do it.  >  > Thanks > Teri Lyn Smith > mailto:smithtl@cccta.org >  >  >        --   Thomas H. Pauli  Hammersteinstr. 19 14199 Berlin Germany    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:43:02 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: Portents of VMS deathI Message-ID: <a44Ca.307042$M81.29385@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 2 news:jvffdvgav6k8rb4o6jtgehcq699q5c70fv@4ax.com.... > On Thu, 29 May 2003 16:36:16 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  > wrote: >  > >jlsue wrote: > > >> How do you get from a discussion about a specific cluster
 configuration 0 > >> into a generic, VMS marketplace discussion? > > B > >Because not everyone has an application that justifies buying a dozen nodes toE > >make a full fledged cluster where any node can go down without any  impact. @ > >There are many who would like to choose VMS for a small scale system that C > >provides production on one node, test on another with production 
 mirrored onto F > >the test system so that the test system can be used when production fails. > > F > >If you tell them that this isn't what VMS is for, then they will go to Unix C > >and Windows. Is the goal to only keep the "crme de la crme" of 
 customers, or C > >to expand the VMS marketplace and capture the HUGE potential for  small # > >clusters in smaller businesses ?  > E > If I stated anywhere that only configurations with a dozen nodes is  our = > target, please show me where.  We are still talking about a 	 specific,  > mis-configured imho, cluster.  > B > And it's not that is "isn't what VMS is for", it's that it is anD > unsupported configuration (potentially).  I still say that putting Dev/testB > in a cluster (security domain) with production would get you hit big-timeD > with the auditors I've known.  Especially in the financial sector.    E Maybe in the banking/insurance sector. In the brokerage sector things F are often played faster and looser - even at some of the biggest names: in the world - especially at the operating division level.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:01:04 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: Portents of VMS deathI Message-ID: <4l4Ca.307109$M81.52589@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 2 news:bbgfdvcl7hjop41tthms2a66uo1906er8t@4ax.com...A > On 30 May 2003 07:25:56 -0700, mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist  dragon)  > wrote: >  >  > > F > >The case is closed and vms lost it. Reitration of what, how and whyE > >does not bear any fruit. There is no way customer is going back to  > >vms. F > >However, this case showed very well of how it performs and claiming > >that = > >vms is best performer in the world is just marketing talk.  > D > Wrong again.  It was a test of a very old version of vms against a new UNIXD > offering.  If you're going to continue browbeating VMS performance on this C > test, regardless of the fact that "vms lost it", then you have to  expectA > that you'll be called on the carpet for a stupid, invalid test.  What you. > ran does not prove that VMS couldn't cut it. > ? > What testing was run appears to have only been done to proves 	 someone's D > desired outcome.  If they really wanted to test VMS performance on thisA > application they would have used later version.  That certainly  couldn'tF > have been more work than setting up the UNIX version to perform that part > of the test. >  >  > > F > >People dont perform major tests for weeks for just fun and everyone on> > >the site loved vms and they had to proof their case against
 managementC > >so I doubt very much anyone did nail it down for incompetence or  willF > >of trying. VMS dvl people did their best afaik but still the system& > >did not reach the figures unix did. > >  > C > BUT THEY STILL USED OLD VERSION OF VMS AND TCP/IP!!!!!  Can't you  see how ? > that test was completely invalid as a way of proving that VMS  performance A > couldn't match UNIX in this case?  I'm not saying that it could  match UNIX, D > but from the test as you've described it, it didn't prove anything other C > than their unwillingness to put forth the same effort for the VMS  side of + > the test as they did to do the UNIX side.     F You are absolutely correct that the 'test' and process was biased. YetE management didn't see it that way because for the most part* they are E deaf, dumb, and blind when it comes to IT. To most managements, IT is @ a cost center, a technological snake pit that they don't care toC understand even if that understanding can be accomplished using the B same principles they use to guide the rest of the business - their< eyes glaze over instead because it's technology with its own
 buzzwords.  E When one goes out to purchase a new car, it is customary and expected = to compare vehicles from the current model year for features, F performance, comfort, safety. Your wife wouldn't let you get away withF making a purchase decision based on a comparison of a new 2003 vehicleE with a used 1999 vehicle if the intent was to purchase a new car. Yet @ IT directors* all too often neglect to make an "apple-to-apples"D comparison with current technology, and senior management let's them get away with it*.  F I call that "The Mis-Informed Advising the Un-Informed Principle". And> that is what in part advertising and marketing to the businessC decision makers is designed to combat (notice how I managed to slip F advertising/marketing back into this discussion). I've seen this occur@ far more times than I can count.....maybe even more often than a 64-bit o/s can count integers.  F The guiding principle among most IT directors who aren't familiar withC VMS seems to be "it's better than what we currently use so that VMS D sh*t must be garbage", or "I'm not paid to be objective, I'm paid toA get results and doing a fair comparison takes time/money which we F won't spend, And besides, when was the last time HP spent any money onA advertising/marketing VMS so I can look good when I present to my 6 bosses?" That or they are just swinging with the wind.   * YMMV   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:38:07 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)" Subject: Re: Portents of VMS death? Message-ID: <PT4Ca.526181$Si4.455246@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   o In article <a44Ca.307042$M81.29385@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > 4 >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message3 >news:jvffdvgav6k8rb4o6jtgehcq699q5c70fv@4ax.com...  <snip>C >> And it's not that is "isn't what VMS is for", it's that it is an E >> unsupported configuration (potentially).  I still say that putting 	 >Dev/test C >> in a cluster (security domain) with production would get you hit 	 >big-time E >> with the auditors I've known.  Especially in the financial sector.  >  > F >Maybe in the banking/insurance sector. In the brokerage sector thingsG >are often played faster and looser - even at some of the biggest names ; >in the world - especially at the operating division level.  >   L Often, but not always.  We had two production (remote site failover) and oneL developent cluster - attempts to combine one of the production clusters withD development (to save space and money) were looked at rather askance.   >   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:57:44 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> - Subject: Samba + Multinet: The Saga continues ' Message-ID: <3ED8D0F8.E327BF86@fsi.net>   $ Hoping that someone here can help...  E I'm still trying to get Samba V2.2-8 running with Mutlinet V4.2 Rev A  (maybe need newer?).  , In SAMBA_ROOT:[000000]LOG.SMBD, I'm getting:  B   Failed to set socket option TCP_NODELAY (Error invalid argument) [2003/05/31 10:10:11, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_8-SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SO  CK.C;4:(170)C   Failed to set socket option SO_KEEPALIVE (Error invalid argument)  [2003/05/31 10:10:11, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_8-SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SO  CK.C;4:(170)B   Failed to set socket option TCP_NODELAY (Error invalid argument) [2003/05/31 10:10:12, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_8-SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SO 
 CK.C;4:(1025) 9   getpeername failed. Error was illegal i/o function code  [2003/05/31 10:10:12, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_8-SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SO  CK.C;4:(170)C   Failed to set socket option SO_KEEPALIVE (Error invalid argument)  [2003/05/31 10:10:12, 0]7 DISK$SWAP:[JYC.SAMBA.SAMBA-2_2_8-SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOe CK.C;4:(170)B   Failed to set socket option TCP_NODELAY (Error invalid argument)  / The service set up in Multinet looks like this:D  ! DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ mult conf/servX. MultiNet Server Configuration Utility V4.2(42)? [Reading in configuration from MULTINET:SERVICES.MASTER_SERVER]w SERVER-CONFIG>show smbd/full Service "SMBD":k2         TCP socket (AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM), Port 139         INIT() = TCP_Initd         LISTEN() = TCP_Listene#         CONNECTED() = TCP_Connected-         SERVICE() = Run_Program 4         Program = "SAMBA_ROOT:[BIN]SMBD_STARTUP.COM"         Username = "SYSTEM"c  / Anyone have any ideas about where to look next?    -- $ David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 17:02:56 GMT14 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)1 Subject: Re: Samba + Multinet: The Saga continuesv/ Message-ID: <4f5Ca.1058786$F1.124320@sccrnsc04>.  [ In article <3ED8D0F8.E327BF86@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o% >Hoping that someone here can help...2 > F >I'm still trying to get Samba V2.2-8 running with Mutlinet V4.2 Rev A >(maybe need newer?).o  B Possibly.  Check out the threads from this selection of samba-vms:  @ http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=samba-vms&w=2&r=1&s=multinet&q=b  K A number of posters seem to list MultiNet 4.4 as a minimum (I can't say form' sure; I don't use MultiNet in my setup.e  ! Also note this particular thread:.  ? http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=samba-vms&m=104266249319278&w=2   D This poster lists the SMBD service in detail, as you do; note he has   Socket Options = SO_KEEPALIVEs  4 as part of the service definitions; would this help?   <snip useful disagnostics>  0 >Anyone have any ideas about where to look next? >o >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/e >o) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:r  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  A _________________________________________________________________e0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 18:00:34 +0530e From: "Vivek" <visoni@bmc.com>5 Subject: Re: SYS$QIOW - Wtih more Details - Final Tryi/ Message-ID: <vdh7t637nhef8e@corp.supernews.com>    Hi,)  K Basically there are two mail boxes and I am able to make sense of the first7 one.   FIRST MAIL BOX  H The first one is opened in read/write mode by the parent, but the parent only does READ request to it.5  G The same mail box is opened by the child in the read/write mode but thee child only does WRITE to it.  K Child is reading data from a data file and keeps WRITING to this mailbox ato very good speed.  4 Parent is reading from this mailbox but not so well.  I After each 9 seconds the parent issues a read request, the taken for eachI request is increasing linearly.    SECOND MAIL BOXf     No much information.   Thanks   Vivekh  8 "Ryan Moore" <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org> wrote in message/ news:Pine.LNX.4.53.0305301417340.4502@jaipur...SI > Wait a minute... is this one or two mailboxes?  You need two mailboxes.dL > One that the parent reads from and one that the child reads from.  You canD > have them both read from the same mailbox, but those reads will beH > serviced in whatever order the reads are queued between the parent andG > child.  Probably not what you want.  It would be very easy to lead to- > timing deadlocks.- >-H > If you don't use the IO$M_NOW qualifier, the write QIOW won't complete > until that message is read.c >vF > It sounds like you're using one mailbox.  Let's assume the child andH > parent are both writing to the same mailbox with QIOW and no one has aK > read queued to the mailbox.  Then that is a deadlock.  Neither write williH > complete until a read is issued.  And no read will be issued until the > write completes. >oK > We do communication with mailboxes.  We use async QIO reads that complete H > with an event flag.  You may issue the write with QIO and complete theF > write asynchronously or you may use QIOW with NOW.  After your write0 > completes, go back and read from your mailbox. >sB > This doesn't sound like a performance problem.  It sounds like a! > design/synchronization problem.r >0 > # > On Sat, 31 May 2003, Vivek wrote:e> > > I will try to be as explanatory as possible  in this mail. > >-H > > Parent process creates mailbox both with read and write permissions. > >-3 > > And then it forks a child process throgh CREPRC3 > >MD > > The child ASSIGNS to the parent mailbox with both read and write > > permissions. > >yF > > Through  the parents channel the parent writes to the mailbox with	 excellent4+ > > speed ( around a millisecond and less).b@ > > The data written through this is arounf 1024 bytes and less. > >uG > > The Child reads from the mailbox from its channel but has problems.iD > > There is fixed gap b/w each read request from the child process. > >dL > > The times taken by the Read request spans from 2 minutes to 10+ minutes.9 > > During this time the mailbox get more than 30 writes.c1 > > THe process is in LEF state during this time.t > >e5 > > All the write and reads are using SYS$QIOW calls.l > >o4 > > Will be more than happy to provide more details.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 18:15:29 +0530  From: "Vivek" <visoni@bmc.com>5 Subject: Re: SYS$QIOW - Wtih more Details - Final Trys/ Message-ID: <vdh8p3ctb9mh84@corp.supernews.com>0  @ I am sorry I have been quite a pain, for quite some time, but...  K ...I create a mailbox with CREMBX call and set max msg size to 1024 and thee buffer lenght 2048.v  H Now I can assign this mailbox to another process using the ASSIGN or the CREMBX call.   I used CREMBX call.   I Can the max msg size and the buffer size be different from the ones which  actually created this mailbox.I For msg size less than 1024 my read process aborts. But if more than 10249 what will happen.H   Any performace affects.n   Thanks Vivek:   ------------------------------    Date: 31 May 2003 11:56:58 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org5 Subject: Re: SYS$QIOW - Wtih more Details - Final TryD3 Message-ID: <dNDsDsBQ9dRv@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  P In article <vdh8p3ctb9mh84@corp.supernews.com>, "Vivek" <visoni@bmc.com> writes:B > I am sorry I have been quite a pain, for quite some time, but... > M > ...I create a mailbox with CREMBX call and set max msg size to 1024 and thee > buffer lenght 2048.e > J > Now I can assign this mailbox to another process using the ASSIGN or the > CREMBX call. >  > I used CREMBX call.t > K > Can the max msg size and the buffer size be different from the ones which   > actually created this mailbox.K > For msg size less than 1024 my read process aborts. But if more than 1024  > what will happen. 6 A read for a message less than 1024 bytes should work.7 A write for a message more than 1024 bytes should fail.v  J What makes you think your writes are actually working?  Have you bothered  to check the IOSB?   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.300 ************************