0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 06 Feb 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 73      Contents: Re: A good day for VMS Re: A good day for VMS Re: A good day for VMS Re: A good day for VMS! Re: Alpha Console Access Question  Re: Another sad day for VMS... Re: Another sad day for VMS... Re: Another sad day for VMS...# Anyone else seeing duplicate posts? * Re: Cisco to sink: names Capellas to board* Re: Cisco to sink: names Capellas to board& Re: Hobbyist kit installation problems& Re: Hobbyist kit installation problems& Re: Hobbyist kit installation problems VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:28:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: A good day for VMS , Message-ID: <43E65FFC.4C62BDD8@teksavvy.com>   "R.A.Omond" wrote:B > As Larry K has already pointed out, it's not replacing anything.  < > This is a customer with a huge investment in VMS systems.   @ OK, so from my point of view, this is not new business, it is an/ existing customer deploying a new application.    H New business could have meant that it was a customer new to VMS and that5 those system were not replacing any old VMS machines.     G Itis still good news.  It is a shame that you can't discuss it, because F that could do great marketing for VMS when you point out customers who& are expanding their investment in VMS.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 00:45:32 +01003 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com>  Subject: Re: A good day for VMS = Message-ID: <43e68e1d$0$67258$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Guy Peleg wrote:. > "R.A.Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message0 > news:ds4dal$kn1$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...> >> I am currently involved in setting up a "farm" of 12 DS15'sC >> at a very large customer in London (UK).  The same configuration > >> is likely to be duplicated at various other sites round the	 >> globe.  >>8 >> This is new business, not a replacement for anything. >> >> Roy Omond >> Blue Bubble Ltd.  >  > This is great news ! >  > Thank you for sharing. >  > Guy Peleg  > OpenVMS Engineering    Just for some balance ...   G Well, I am in a project actively decommissioning every VMS machine and  J everything Compaq/HP in the entire corporation.  It is as much kit as the M initial installation mentioned in the original post.  Stuff is still getting  M bought, but that will stop as the replacements starts rolling out.  Then one  F day its zero income on the HP books from this customer and a lot less 	 licences.   J It may take several years to do it, but this decision has been made for a M lot of reasons, one of which (perhaps the very top of the list) is that they  L do not trust VMS or HPs stewardship, current service quality or the Itanic. 4 Lack of qualified VMS & Rdb people is also a factor.  C So it's BigBlue, Unix & Oracle in my future, bybye Alpha, VMS & Rdb   E And guess what, I do not give a heave-ho if they convert to ZX81s or  K anything else for that matter.  My job is OS agnostic, I just do the brain  I work.   I did not have any influence on this decision and would not have  C attempted to influence the decision even had I had the opportunity.   
 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:17:47 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: A good day for VMS ( Message-ID: <ops4i1vxapzgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 00:45:32 +0100, Dr. Dweeb  ( <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> wrote:  K > It may take several years to do it, but this decision has been made for a K > lot of reasons, one of which (perhaps the very top of the list) is that    > theyG > do not trust VMS or HPs stewardship, current service quality or the   	 > Itanic. 6 > Lack of qualified VMS & Rdb people is also a factor.E > So it's BigBlue, Unix & Oracle in my future, bybye Alpha, VMS & Rdb F > And guess what, I do not give a heave-ho if they convert to ZX81s orH > anything else for that matter.  My job is OS agnostic, I just do the   > brain J > work.   I did not have any influence on this decision and would not haveE > attempted to influence the decision even had I had the opportunity.   G Well, look on the bright side, with Big Blue you get a company that you G can rely on, and you get a decent PL/I compiler (not as good as VMS):-0    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:53:33 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: A good day for VMS + Message-ID: <43E6C83D.9FBDAD3D@comcast.net>    "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: >  > Guy Peleg wrote:0 > > "R.A.Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message2 > > news:ds4dal$kn1$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...@ > >> I am currently involved in setting up a "farm" of 12 DS15'sE > >> at a very large customer in London (UK).  The same configuration @ > >> is likely to be duplicated at various other sites round the > >> globe.  > >>: > >> This is new business, not a replacement for anything. > >> > >> Roy Omond > >> Blue Bubble Ltd.  > >  > > This is great news ! > >  > > Thank you for sharing. > > 
 > > Guy Peleg  > > OpenVMS Engineering  >  > Just for some balance ...  > H > Well, I am in a project actively decommissioning every VMS machine andK > everything Compaq/HP in the entire corporation.  It is as much kit as the N > initial installation mentioned in the original post.  Stuff is still gettingN > bought, but that will stop as the replacements starts rolling out.  Then oneG > day its zero income on the HP books from this customer and a lot less  > licences.  > K > It may take several years to do it, but this decision has been made for a N > lot of reasons, one of which (perhaps the very top of the list) is that theyM > do not trust VMS or HPs stewardship, current service quality or the Itanic.   H This message needs to be communicated to HP in no uncertain terms at the highest possible levels.  6 > Lack of qualified VMS & Rdb people is also a factor.  F More likely, its the lack of entry-level "qualified" VMS & Rdb people.E As any headhunter how many VMS folks they're trying to place (or have # recently given up trying to place).   E > So it's BigBlue, Unix & Oracle in my future, bybye Alpha, VMS & Rdb  > F > And guess what, I do not give a heave-ho if they convert to ZX81s orL > anything else for that matter.  My job is OS agnostic, I just do the brainJ > work.   I did not have any influence on this decision and would not haveE > attempted to influence the decision even had I had the opportunity.   H I trust that doesn't prevent you from doing the long-term cost analysis, VMS vs. the competition...  C Then again, you'll likely get more work out of the lesser platforms 5 because it takes so much more to get/keep them going.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:40:10 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: Alpha Console Access Question+ Message-ID: <43E6C51A.A9012C42@comcast.net>    Bob Blunt wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote: J > > O.k. Folks here have posted about using VCS/PCM and successors to this2 > > day to manage their Alpha, HSx, etc. consoles. > > G > > I'm wondering if anyone is doing this: Use PCM to access the MBM on J > > GS1280s via reverse-TELNET thru port mapping on the SMC Barricade, and1 > > possibly thence to access OPA0: also via PCM?  > > E > > When I say "PCM", I'm implicitly including CA's Unicenter console ( > > product and ConsoleWorks from TDITX. > >  > I > The network MBM port has an IP address and reverse-TELNET is how any of G > the console management tools (including the AMS/AMU variant available H > from HP) would communicate with it.  You can connect a terminal serverG > port to the serial console port for the GS1280 instead (or both), but ! > ONLY one can be used at a time.   B Well, to be more specific, only one can be used as OPA0: at a timeG (either the TELNET session or the serial proit, but not both), and only 7 one TELNET session the MBM is possible at any one time.   E It is entirely valid to have OPA0: by one method and access to MBM by < the other at the same time. They MUST, however, be separate.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 11:52:32 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>' Subject: Re: Another sad day for VMS... : Message-ID: <P9CdnQ1f08GJ13venZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@bresnan.com>   noone wrote:   >  > H > I was recently informed of a project to port all of the apps and db's G > running on OpenVMS to Sun Solaris for NOAA over the next 18 months...  >  > anonymous (yeah - right...)   G What did you expect?  Suns stuff is advertised and out in the open. HP  A treats OpenVMS and systems like a red-headed-bastard at a picnic. 2 Shove him in a corner and hope no one notices him.   --   Where are we going?   And why am I in this handbasket?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 00:47:40 +01003 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> ' Subject: Re: Another sad day for VMS... = Message-ID: <43e68e9c$0$67258$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Bill Todd wrote:F >> Maybe, maybe not.  One might suspect that any such 'remaining apps'E >> were applications which were quite happy with VMS as it is and did < >> not require anything in the way of continued development. > A > But if it was foreseen that system upgrades would be needed for F > additional capacity in the next year or two, that site would then beF > faced with HP's decision to stop selling Alpha systems this year andG > decide to move ahead with a move to an IS with multi platform future.  > F > It could also be maintenance cost related.  If that shop didn't needA > upgrades but HP just told them that maintenance costs for their D > machines would increase significantly in the next years, then thatC > would also be incentive to take the final plunge and move to Sun.  > F > The fact that Solaris is not open sources also means that should SunA > go belly up, customers would not be stuck since they would have 
 > sources. >  > F > The problem with HP is that they are actively seeking to move peopleF > off VAX and  Alpha in the hopes that they go to that IA64 thing. ButD > begative incentives just result in customers moving to a differentG > vendor.  And if they made Alpha competitive, customer would stay with D > Alpha instead of going through the trouble and expense of going to > that IA64 thing.  % See my post on the "good Day" thread.    Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:47:33 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Re: Another sad day for VMS... + Message-ID: <43E6C6D4.5F537D8E@comcast.net>    noone wrote: >  > John Doe wrote:  > > Bill Todd wrote: > > J > >>>running on OpenVMS to Sun Solaris for NOAA over the next 18 months... > >>5 > >>What!?  Not to VMS's new stateroom on the Itanic?  > >  > > K > > If they already have Solaris in house, the decision to stop developping L > > the VMS infrastructure was probably taken a long time ago and this mightL > > just be the decision to make the final push to remove the remaining apps > > on VMS.  > > I > > If this ia a truly new decision, then I would suggest to the original E > > poster that he/she gets his/her employer to tell HP that they are H > > dropping VMS and why.  This letter shoudl go to both Hurd and to Ann > > McQuaid (VMS manager). > B > ... and it could be that the OP does not work for the company in7 > question... or have any dealings with said company... I > that said, don't know the reasons - only that I have been made aware... J > and I am quite certain that HP is aware... NOAA has a significant number > of VMS boxes...   G Given where NOAA is likely to want to go in the short to near term, and ? given that Itanic has yet to surpass ALpha's performance by any G significant margin, the move is definitely understandable, albeit still  unfortunate.  F To quote an Edward R. Murrow line from the movie, "Sink the Bismarck",G "There is probably celebration in Berlin tonight, and on the Bismarck".   ' (Again: intentionally being "cryptic".)    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 05:37:44 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>, Subject: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts?; Message-ID: <IgBFf.10036$%84.3889@tornado.southeast.rr.com>   ) Anyone else seeing mucho duplicate posts?    Ken   % _____________________________________  Kenneth Farmer <>< 336-736-7376   3 www.OpenVMS.org | dba.OpenVMS.org | dcl.OpenVMS.org  HP OpenVMS News and Info   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:34:42 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Cisco to sink: names Capellas to board + Message-ID: <43E6C3D2.144E519F@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: J > > My second reaction is to wonder who survives as a viable competitor to" > > Cisco in the enterprise space? > G > Cisco has done a bit like Microsoft: use good marketing techniques to J > establish itself as the de-facto standard solution to any network needs > J > Juniper Networks is used by big telcos.  Lucent and Nortel may come backF > eventually. With telephony now going IP, they'll have to focus on IPJ > products. During .COM. Nortel had bought Bay networks, probably just outH > of knee jerk reaction just to join the oooplah, and we must now see if- > they will really leverage that acquisition.  > J > What is interesting is to watch Netgear. They were low end. Purchased byA > Bay Network, then spun off by Nortel. They are now growing into 4 > enterprise space.  3com is doing the same as well.  H 3com has a lot of image issues to overcome before it can hope to compete with Cisco.   B > Cisco bought Linksys to prevent it from competing against Cisco.  C Also gives Cisco a greater presence in the home/SOHO/SMB LAN market 7 where up until then it was not especially competitive.    	 > But the A > other low end guys will grow and compete against the big legacy  > networking companies.    As well they could/should.  G Until then, Cisco remains the "big name" in the non-telecomm enterprise  space.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 00:51:02 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: Cisco to sink: names Capellas to board , Message-ID: <43E6E3C5.D1329B9A@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: D > > Cisco bought Linksys to prevent it from competing against Cisco. > E > Also gives Cisco a greater presence in the home/SOHO/SMB LAN market 8 > where up until then it was not especially competitive.  F To me, this is an indication of a core problem: if Cisco was unable toF compete in the low end/SOHO market, then there is something wrong withG Cisco itself. Buying Linksys won't solve Cisco's problems, it will only 
 hide them.  G Meanwhile, as the low cost low end grow into enterprise market, they'll F be lean and mean while Cisco will still be fat and expensive and guess who will win ?  E Cisco still has lots of steam though. Lots of people trained on Cisco F hardware, very few trained on other brands. And Cisco is still the bigG (by far) recognised leader in networking. You could have said the exact D same of Digital in 1987-1989 timeframe. Took 10 years before Digital ceased to exist.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2006 21:51:19 -0800 7 From: "greg.chabala@gmail.com" <greg.chabala@gmail.com> / Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit installation problems C Message-ID: <1139205079.322725.295210@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Oh, uh,   C which of all these 107 layered product licences do i need to get my  tcpip stack to run?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 01:01:31 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit installation problems , Message-ID: <43E6E639.B6AB6264@teksavvy.com>   "greg.chabala@gmail.com" wrote:  > 	 > Oh, uh,  > E > which of all these 107 layered product licences do i need to get my  > tcpip stack to run?   ) UCX  , one of the last ones on the list !    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 01:24:29 -0500 + From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> / Subject: Re: Hobbyist kit installation problems < Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060206012259.0365e690@patmedia.net>  3 At 12:51 AM 2/6/2006, greg.chabala@gmail.com wrote:  >Oh, uh, > D >which of all these 107 layered product licences do i need to get my >tcpip stack to run?  F UCX (the old name) or TCP/IP for OpenVMS (the new name). I'm not sure  which is in the kit these days.    Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:13:47 +0100 . From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>% Subject: VAXstation 2000 boot devices + Message-ID: <43E64E6B.3B8438B9@T-Online.de>    Hi!   H What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is itF limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive to it to boot?   Any help is appreciated.   Thanks   Frank    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2006 14:00:26 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 3 Message-ID: <oFKd0+z5nqyR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43E64E6B.3B8438B9@T-Online.de>, Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de> writes:  J > What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is itH > limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive > to it to boot?  < I do not believe VMS has ever booted from DAT, just disk and@ (for standalone Backup only) disk-emulating tapes like the TK50.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2006 14:01:56 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 3 Message-ID: <L82i8kwXVYYI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <oFKd0+z5nqyR@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: ^ > In article <43E64E6B.3B8438B9@T-Online.de>, Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de> writes: > K >> What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is it I >> limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive  >> to it to boot?  > > > I do not believe VMS has ever booted from DAT, just disk andB > (for standalone Backup only) disk-emulating tapes like the TK50.  ) Of course it can also boot from Ethernet.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:32:53 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices , Message-ID: <43E660F3.87E21152@teksavvy.com>   Frank Themann wrote:J > What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is itH > limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive > to it to boot?  H My microvax II could boot from CD and any SCSI disks with a DILOG SQ739 E QBUS-SCSI controller. But the DEC QBUS-SCSI controllers did not allow  one to boot from such devices.  ? IT really depends on what interface your DAT drive has and what G interfaces your 2000 supports. Does the Vaxstation II have a QUBUS slot  for expansion ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:31:03 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 0 Message-ID: <00A50DFA.04C4387E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <43E64E6B.3B8438B9@T-Online.de>, Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de> writes: >  >  >Hi! > I >What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is it G >limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive  >to it to boot?  >  >Any help is appreciated.  >  >Thanks  >  >Frank  " The 2000 can be NI booted as well.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:38:41 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 0 Message-ID: <00A50DFB.16087AAC@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <43E660F3.87E21152@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >  >  >Frank Themann wrote: K >> What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is it I >> limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive  >> to it to boot?  > I >My microvax II could boot from CD and any SCSI disks with a DILOG SQ739  F >QBUS-SCSI controller. But the DEC QBUS-SCSI controllers did not allow >one to boot from such devices.  > @ >IT really depends on what interface your DAT drive has and whatH >interfaces your 2000 supports. Does the Vaxstation II have a QUBUS slot >for expansion ?  = The 2000s had very little in terms of "expansion" capability.   E I have two here but they haven't been booted up in years.  I have one E which has the expansion "plate" on the bottom.  This supported an ex- F ternal disk (via a cable with a 50(?) pin D style plug with three rowsH of connectors) and a tape drive via near-SCSI on a 50pin TELCO/CentronixF connector.  The TK50Z-FA/GA work with the 2000s.  I rememeber playing G with a few others which worked for me despite the rantings of naysayers  to the contrary.  F I have/had mine maxed out with 14MB of mem (WOW!) and two RD54 drives.   There is NO Qbus on a 2000.   H 2000s are also dreadfully slow.  They do run VMS, however.  I don't haveF the heart to toss mine as they were the first VAXen I owned and I paidG quite a premium at the time to own them.  I could have bought a new car 
 but noooo...     --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 22:08:07 -0000= From: "Alan Scott" <alan dot scott at dial dot pipex dot com> ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices . Message-ID: <k_ydnXjHScLb6nveRVny1Q@pipex.net>  F IIRC the VS2000 won't even boot from many disks, it probably shares a J limitation that I think some VS3100s have, that the firmware can't handle I disks above about 800MB in size.   There was a firmware upgrade for some  J VS4000s, I think, but not for the VS3100 (M76?) our users tried to update M with modern SCSI disks a few years ago.     PC-style disk partitioning still  G seemed to produce a smaller partition which the firmware couldn't boot.   < "Frank Themann" <frankthemann@T-Online.de> wrote in message % news:43E64E6B.3B8438B9@T-Online.de...  > Hi!  > J > What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is itH > limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive > to it to boot? >  > Any help is appreciated. >  > Thanks >  > Frank    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 23:28:50 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices + Message-ID: <44nch3F32im7U1@individual.net>    Frank Themann wrote: > Hi!  > J > What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is itH > limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive > to it to boot? >  > Any help is appreciated. >   @ As I recall, the TK50s which worked with it were only a partial H implementation of SCSI. No problem booting from the TK50 my VS2000 came / with, except for the time it took of course :-)   A I did try with a Sony DAT once, but in spite of making the right  G clicking sounds when I powered the VS2000 on and booted it, I couldn't  
 see the tape.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 23:42:55 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices + Message-ID: <44ndbgF31o1gU1@individual.net>     VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   > ? > The 2000s had very little in terms of "expansion" capability.  > G > I have two here but they haven't been booted up in years.  I have one G > which has the expansion "plate" on the bottom.  This supported an ex- H > ternal disk (via a cable with a 50(?) pin D style plug with three rowsJ > of connectors) and a tape drive via near-SCSI on a 50pin TELCO/CentronixH > connector.  The TK50Z-FA/GA work with the 2000s.  I rememeber playing I > with a few others which worked for me despite the rantings of naysayers  > to the contrary. >   G Mine had a 3rd party mod which omitted the (expsenive for what it was)  H expansion "plate" - just a cable coming out of the back. It worked fine 
 for the TK50.   H > I have/had mine maxed out with 14MB of mem (WOW!) and two RD54 drives. >   F Mine only had 6MB (or was it 8MB?). With DECWindows running there was G something like 500 pages free left for useful work, so I tailored DECW   off and used VWS.    > There is NO Qbus on a 2000.  > J > 2000s are also dreadfully slow.  They do run VMS, however.  I don't haveH > the heart to toss mine as they were the first VAXen I owned and I paidI > quite a premium at the time to own them.  I could have bought a new car  > but noooo...   >   H I bought a new car the same year as well - I could have had wheels with D some decent oomph instead of the VAX, but no, and regretted it (the  choice of car, not the VAX).   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 23:32:44 GMT + From: Allison-nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 8 Message-ID: <152du1hpc3vpv99ul29cf0iefkgs13e0vu@4ax.com>  B On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 22:08:07 -0000, "Alan Scott" <alan dot scott at dial dot pipex dot com> wrote:  G >IIRC the VS2000 won't even boot from many disks, it probably shares a  K >limitation that I think some VS3100s have, that the firmware can't handle  J >disks above about 800MB in size.   There was a firmware upgrade for some K >VS4000s, I think, but not for the VS3100 (M76?) our users tried to update  N >with modern SCSI disks a few years ago.     PC-style disk partitioning still H >seemed to produce a smaller partition which the firmware couldn't boot.  
 Incorrect.  F The disk size limitations for the VS2000 is around 200mb (no mfm disksC larger were made).  There were RLL and EDSI disks but they were not D VS2000 compatable.  The TK50 bus in the VS2000 is SCSI at the signalE level but at the time of the design the SCSI protocal was in flux and D the booter will not work with most modern SCSI devices.  There is a < third party hack to fix the boot rooms for more modern SCSI.? The most useful thing about the VS2000 is it can format any MFM = disk for RQDX3 Qbus MSCP controller, this applies to floppies  as well (RX50 or RX33).   C The disk limitations for the 3100s was 1.07mb and only for the boot E disk (boot rom limitation).  The SCSI in the 3100s is SCSI-II and any ? disk I've tried (up to 4.3gb) has worked as second/third/fourth ? drives.  PC style partitioning is not compatable with VAX file  B boot as the boot is limited in addressing.  Later 3100s could boot
 larger disks.   D I have multiple copies of uVAX-II, VS2000, VS3100/10e and VS3100/m76( operational running VMS 5.5 through 7.2.   Allison    > = >"Frank Themann" <frankthemann@T-Online.de> wrote in message  & >news:43E64E6B.3B8438B9@T-Online.de... >> Hi! >>K >> What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is it I >> limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive  >> to it to boot?  >> >> Any help is appreciated.  >>	 >> Thanks  >>	 >> Frank   >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 23:35:36 GMT + From: Allison-nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 8 Message-ID: <gp2du1h3om8i6ftma8sodr0q06ajc8cafq@4ax.com>  F On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 23:28:50 +0100, Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch> wrote:   >Frank Themann wrote:  >> Hi! >>  K >> What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is it I >> limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive  >> to it to boot?  >> >> Any help is appreciated.  >>   > A >As I recall, the TK50s which worked with it were only a partial  I >implementation of SCSI. No problem booting from the TK50 my VS2000 came  0 >with, except for the time it took of course :-)  D Correct.  the BUS was SCSI but the protocal was not compatable with  SCSI-1 or SCSI-II.    B If you boot a OS with a "fixed" SCSI driver it behaves properly by more current standards.   B >I did try with a Sony DAT once, but in spite of making the right H >clicking sounds when I powered the VS2000 on and booted it, I couldn't  >see the tape.  E I have two TLZ04s and while the work fine with VS3100 the 2000 is not  a viable host.   Allison    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2006 19:34:52 -0800 # From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices C Message-ID: <1139196891.949394.164450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D IIRC there was a German hobbyist who claimed that the tape expansionG bus was actually a  crippled SCSI bus. He had a website  that explained D how to upgrade 2000's tape bus to a fully functional SCSI bus. Can't find a current pointer though    Hans   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:42:26 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 2 Message-ID: <06020521422658_20331674@antinode.org>  . From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>  J > What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is itH > limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive > to it to boot?  - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   > > I do not believe VMS has ever booted from DAT, just disk andB > (for standalone Backup only) disk-emulating tapes like the TK50.  F    The TK50 emulates a tape, not a disk.  (It's a very good emulation,F too, except for the speed.)  You may be thinking of the TU58.  I'm notE sure that I could find it, but I'm pretty sure that I have an Exabyte H 8500 tape with Standalone BACKUP V7.2 on it.  (Also RX23 floppies, but IH had to fiddle STABACKIT.COM to make it, and that was for a VAXsta 3138.)  + > Of course it can also boot from Ethernet.       True.  - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   ( > [Distracting Q-bus diversion omitted.]  = From: "Alan Scott" <alan dot scott at dial dot pipex dot com>   , > [Distracting SCSI disk diversion omitted.]  ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>  A > As I recall, the TK50s which worked with it were only a partial I > implementation of SCSI. No problem booting from the TK50 my VS2000 came 1 > with, except for the time it took of course :-)   A    As I've reported here repeatedly over the years, I've used the D TK50Z-FA and the -GA with non-2000 systems with no trouble, althoughG it's been a while, now.  The -GA worked on an AlpSta 200 4/233 the last ; time I tried it, too, but I may not have tried a -FA there.   + From: Allison-nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net   H > The disk size limitations for the VS2000 is around 200mb (no mfm disks > larger were made).  [...]   G    The RD54 (Maxtor XT-2190) was 159MB (312375 blocks) formatted, 190MB $ unformatted, and it was the biggest.  G > I have two TLZ04s and while the work fine with VS3100 the 2000 is not  > a viable host.  G    Wouldn't surprise me.  As I recall, the 2000 didn't even work with a F TK50Z-xA when it wasn't set at ID 1.  I don't remember trying non-TK501 tape drives on a 2000 (at ID 1 or anywhere else).   # From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de>   F > IIRC there was a German hobbyist who claimed that the tape expansionI > bus was actually a  crippled SCSI bus. He had a website  that explained F > how to upgrade 2000's tape bus to a fully functional SCSI bus. Can't > find a current pointer though   E    Wolfgang J. Moeller.  Look for "PK2K".  I never tried it, but what ? could go wrong?  Of course you need to program the EPROMS.  Try " "ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/".  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 04:17:24 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 3 Message-ID: <slrndudjej.jmg.rivie@stench.no.domain>   1 On 2006-02-06, H Vlems <hvlems@freenet.de> wrote: F > IIRC there was a German hobbyist who claimed that the tape expansionI > bus was actually a  crippled SCSI bus. He had a website  that explained F > how to upgrade 2000's tape bus to a fully functional SCSI bus. Can't > find a current pointer though   G It IS a SCSI bus, and it's only crippled by software. The hardware is a - NEC 5380 or clone, a popular SCSI controller.   . You're looking for Wolfgang Moeller in Google. --  
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.073 ************************