0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 06 Feb 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 74      Contents: Re: A good day for VMS Re: A good day for VMS Re: Alpha for XP Re: Alpha for XP Re: Alpha for XP Re: Another sad day for VMS...' RE: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts? ' Re: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts? ' Re: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts? ' Re: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts? ' Re: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts? * Re: Cisco to sink: names Capellas to board DEC 3000 SCC Hex 46 problem  RE: DEC 3000 SCC Hex 46 problem  Re: DEC PWS433au memory 	 Re: FaxSR  Re: FOR070.DAT files appearing8 Re: M e z e i discriminates against fat lesbian feminist Re: null terminated strings  Re: null terminated strings  Re: null terminated strings  Re: null terminated strings  Re: PDPs in the news!  Re: PDPs in the news! $ perl build error (& subscribe error)( Re: perl build error (& subscribe error)( Re: perl build error (& subscribe error)= Posting errors on Google [was: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR]  sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ! Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR ' Re: The Pentium Chronicles (2006.01.31) ' Re: The Pentium Chronicles (2006.01.31)   Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:37:56 -0500C From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com>  Subject: Re: A good day for VMS 9 Message-ID: <83JFf.13606$Iy4.3823@bignews1.bellsouth.net>    My bet is SmithKline Beecham   Huge user of VMS in London   DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   , "R.A.Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message. news:ds4dal$kn1$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...= > I am currently involved in setting up a "farm" of 12 DS15's B > at a very large customer in London (UK).  The same configuration= > is likely to be duplicated at various other sites round the  > globe. > 7 > This is new business, not a replacement for anything.  >  > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 08:31:13 -0800  From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com> Subject: Re: A good day for VMS C Message-ID: <1139243473.030986.209530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    David,  G Last I heard over the last 2 years Glaxo SmithKline was decommissioning . all of their OpenVMS systems at all locations.   Robert  - David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:  > My bet is SmithKline Beecham >  > Huge user of VMS in London >  > DT >  > -- >  > David B Turner > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 > Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  > Fax: 912 201 0402  > Email: dbturner@icusc.com  > Web: http://www.islandco.com' > ===================================== > > All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions0 > of sale. These should be read before ordering.' > http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html  > . > "R.A.Omond" <Roy@Omond.net> wrote in message0 > news:ds4dal$kn1$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...? > > I am currently involved in setting up a "farm" of 12 DS15's D > > at a very large customer in London (UK).  The same configuration? > > is likely to be duplicated at various other sites round the 
 > > globe. > > 9 > > This is new business, not a replacement for anything.  > > 
 > > Roy Omond  > > Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:50:49 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Alpha for XP ) Message-ID: <ds7gn9$ai8$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   b In article <GXSEf.18301$Sk1.347890@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Chris Moore" <no.one@no.where> writes: > & ><mb301@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >news:1138973739.261441.107300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...H >> Anyone onr here using this product yet? sound like a bargin only $465 >>> >> http://www.emulatorsinternational.com/en/personalalpha.htm  >> > L >Seems to me that everyone is missing the point of this.  You can buy VAXes L >cheap, but that doesn't change the fact that they're out of production and L >at least 10 years old.  CHARON-VAX is a great solution to keeping the apps % >without worrying about the hardware.  > J >Alphas are soon to follow the same path to oblivion.  Last Order Date is L >fast approaching, and how do I keep Alpha 1000 apps running without Appl'n K >Support people, or the ability to update to a new system unit?  Answer is  0 >this emulator -- maybe not today, but soon .... >   M Sorry although what you say about the last order date is true this particular % emulator doesn't really address that. K This is basically a proof of concept rather than a production system - they  even say so on    : http://www.emulatorsinternational.com/en/virtualalpha.htm     O Their real systems might be worth a look at but $465 for a performance limited, E memory limited proof of concept system (which is so limited you can't ) even install TRU64 on it) isn't worth it.          
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >cm  >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 07:32:22 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Alpha for XP 3 Message-ID: <dypmt94osWrm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <43e39e41$0$13737$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w4OLD.boerhout@PAINTplanet.nl> writes:) > Bob Koehler mailde op 3-2-2006 15:43...  >>    Yes, a real bargain! >>  . >>    Considering I paid $50 for a real Alpha. > K > True, for acquiring the Alpha. Now add your power bill, floorspace costs   > and calculate again...  I    Insignificant compared to the cost of that 11/785 I just "acquired" at     work.  E    No, the application will not run on Charon-VAX.  Not at any speed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:09:39 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: Alpha for XP / Message-ID: <43E73C83.28812.186FA88A@localhost>   ) On 6 Feb 2006 at 7:32, Bob Koehler wrote: H >    Insignificant compared to the cost of that 11/785 I just "acquired"
 >    at work.  > G >    No, the application will not run on Charon-VAX.  Not at any speed.   D No one's ever made any claims that CHARON-VAX will run everything.  B Most of the 11-78x's that are still in service have some "unique" & hardware interfaces, to say the least.  @ And we're only supporting VMS V4.5 and later, although I have a  client running V4.3.  < I have a prospect running V3.something on a 11-780, and I'm 2 researching how to replace/replicate his hardware.  B I got an inquiry a couple of years back about using CHARON-VAX to ? write 800 BPI tapes.  There is a international treaty (!) that  F requires 800 BPI data interchange.  Scary, huh?  At least they didn't ) require 7-track tapes (remember them?)...   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 15:33:08 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Another sad day for VMS... + Message-ID: <44p8hkF38po3U1@individual.net>   ' In article <43E57E1B.EE84D76B@doe.org>,   	John Doe <jdoe@doe.org> writes: > Bill Todd wrote:J >> > running on OpenVMS to Sun Solaris for NOAA over the next 18 months... >>  6 >> What!?  Not to VMS's new stateroom on the Itanic?   > I > If they already have Solaris in house, the decision to stop developping J > the VMS infrastructure was probably taken a long time ago and this mightJ > just be the decision to make the final push to remove the remaining apps	 > on VMS.  > G > If this ia a truly new decision, then I would suggest to the original C > poster that he/she gets his/her employer to tell HP that they are F > dropping VMS and why.  This letter shoudl go to both Hurd and to Ann > McQuaid (VMS manager).  < And why would they want to do this?  So that some half-assed; sales-droid can start calling them everyday to try and sell : them more PC's?  It is better to just push the old out the; door and not even bother talking to the idiots who let that ; business go away.  If they didin't get the message when the < maintenance contracts weren't renewed and didn't notice that: the old were not replaced with new VMS machines, it is not: the former customers responsibility to educate the vendor.: At this point, the future survivasl of VMS is probably not  of any interest to them anymore.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:28:14 +11006 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>0 Subject: RE: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts?X Message-ID: <0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC307E66D@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.local>   -----Original Message-----; From: Kenneth Farmer [mailto:kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com] ' Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:38 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts?    ) Anyone else seeing mucho duplicate posts?    Ken   L Ken, Yes but they only come from certain people.  I am not seeing duplicate= s from everyone.   Regards, Paddy    G *********************************************************************** ; Please consider the environment before printing this email.   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 02:58:56 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts?, Message-ID: <43E701BF.AA516D51@teksavvy.com>  = > From: Kenneth Farmer [mailto:kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com]   + > Anyone else seeing mucho duplicate posts?     5 Have not see duplicates here. (astraweb news server).   G Perhaps tOo MuCh SeX mAkEs YoUr EyEs Go FuNny and you are seeing double  ??? :-) :-) :-) ;-) :-) ;-) :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 08:08:18 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> 0 Subject: Re: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts?D Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0602060104220.8381@localhost.localdomain>  ) On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, Kenneth Farmer wrote:   + > Anyone else seeing mucho duplicate posts?    Sure am.   - Rob      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 03:50:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts?, Message-ID: <43E70DE1.948FB8DF@teksavvy.com>   Kenneth Farmer wrote:  > + > Anyone else seeing mucho duplicate posts?   6 giganews doesn't seem to have any obvious duplication.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:09:03 -0500- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 0 Subject: Re: Anyone else seeing duplicate posts?I Message-ID: <8660a3a10602060609l411e85b8x42d9e0ee6a0a4a16@mail.gmail.com>   @ On 2/6/06, Kenneth Farmer <kfarmer@nospam.spyderbyte.com> wrote:+ > Anyone else seeing mucho duplicate posts?  >  > Ken  > ' > _____________________________________ ! > Kenneth Farmer <>< 336-736-7376  > 5 > www.OpenVMS.org | dba.OpenVMS.org | dcl.OpenVMS.org  > HP OpenVMS News and Info >  >  >  >  > ( No but it sure seems that way sometimes.   : ^ )    WWWebb   --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 14:45:48 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)3 Subject: Re: Cisco to sink: names Capellas to board + Message-ID: <44p5osF38tjbU1@individual.net>   ? In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-8rOwbG06Gr9h@dave2_os2.home.ours>, 5 	"Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes: 4 > On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 03:19:15 UTC, David J Dachtera $ > <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >> >  $ >> > http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/ >> >  + >> > Curly has been named to Cisco's board.  >> >  0 >> > At least they acknowledged his limitations: >> >  - >> > "Michael is a seasoned general manager".  >> >  K >> > That is about all he is. Hopefully Cisco will not let Curly damage the M >> > company.   The message though is that Cisco is now opened for bids to be  >> > taken over/dismantled.  >>  J >> I don't see how the Cicso juggernaut could even remotely be compared to2 >> the foundering messes that were DEC and Compaq. > H > At a recent DECUS meeting in Munich it was put to us by one of Cisco'sF > competitors that they are winning from Cisco because Cisco is still H > too 'proprietary' and was losing out to those networking companies who! > are implementing the Standards.  >   E And what would you expect a competitor to say?  That they are rapidly C loosing ground to Cisco and you should go there to buy your network B infrastructure?  Just what is it that Cisco does that violates anyB standard?  Most of the Cisco extensions are avaiable on top of theB standard IP stuff and need not beused unless you want the features they bring to the table.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:47:55 +11006 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>$ Subject: DEC 3000 SCC Hex 46 problemX Message-ID: <0A7046B0A95F2B41B3712F0C5FD1CDC307E66E@ex-tg2-pr.corporate.transgrid.local>  	 Dear all,   L On my desk I have an old DEC 3000 with V7.3 (I think).  I use this for tran=L sport to my current DS10 development machine and my ES40 production machine=  (all of which I administer).   L I have just returned from 6 weeks leave, to find that the DEC 3000  (Model =" 400) bugchecked whilst I was away.  L We have a very enthusiastic desk cleaner, who apparently cleaned everything=  on my desk :-(   L This machine is no longer under maintenance and it fails checking at SCC wi=L th an LED code of 6/2/1 which is hex 46.  I found a google search of this r=L eferring to a DMA problem.  What is DMA?  It seemed to relate to mouse and =L keyboard, so I tried swapping these for others, but to no avail.  How much =@ of a problem is it to fix this (me or buying something from HP)?  L It appears that this is Serial Communications Controller.  I can dispose of=L  this and move the DS10 onto my desk, but as this is clustered with the oth=L er transport machine on my desk (a VAXstation 4000-60) which has a shared S=L CSI disk whereon I keep my utility programs (.COM and .EXE), I would like t= o keep this going if possible.   TIA    Regards, Paddy  L P.S. I'm having to use a PC to send this, so I hope it comes over in plain =L text -- what I cannot do with Micro$oft Web Access which I normally use to = read from Mozilla.  L And apologies for the stupidity which gets attached.  Both these issues are='  why I do not correspond much here now.     G *********************************************************************** ; Please consider the environment before printing this email.   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 06:12:20 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> ( Subject: RE: DEC 3000 SCC Hex 46 problemR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB7D384F@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----@ > From: O'Brien Paddy [mailto:Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au]=20  > Sent: February 6, 2006 1:48 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > Subject: DEC 3000 SCC Hex 46 problem >=20 > Dear all,  >=20B > On my desk I have an old DEC 3000 with V7.3 (I think).  I use=20B > this for transport to my current DS10 development machine and=209 > my ES40 production machine (all of which I administer).  >=20B > I have just returned from 6 weeks leave, to find that the DEC=201 > 3000  (Model 400) bugchecked whilst I was away.  >=20= > We have a very enthusiastic desk cleaner, who apparently=20 # > cleaned everything on my desk :-(  >=20= > This machine is no longer under maintenance and it fails=20 B > checking at SCC with an LED code of 6/2/1 which is hex 46.  I=20? > found a google search of this referring to a DMA problem. =20 B > What is DMA?  It seemed to relate to mouse and keyboard, so I=20@ > tried swapping these for others, but to no avail.  How much=20B > of a problem is it to fix this (me or buying something from HP)? >=20A > It appears that this is Serial Communications Controller.  I=20 ? > can dispose of this and move the DS10 onto my desk, but as=20 B > this is clustered with the other transport machine on my desk=20B > (a VAXstation 4000-60) which has a shared SCSI disk whereon I=20> > keep my utility programs (.COM and .EXE), I would like to=20 > keep this going if possible. >=20 > TIA  >=20 > Regards, Paddy >=20A > P.S. I'm having to use a PC to send this, so I hope it comes=20 > > over in plain text -- what I cannot do with Micro$oft Web=203 > Access which I normally use to read from Mozilla.  >=20? > And apologies for the stupidity which gets attached.  Both=20 9 > these issues are why I do not correspond much here now.  >=20     Paddy,  H DMA =3D direct memory access =3D method of transferring data from deviceG to/from memory directly as opposed to program mode such as polling etc. A I suspect this might be red herring in terms of the error you are  seeing.   E Might not apply, but this reminds me of issue I had with my DEC 3000. F There is a switch at the back of the system which (from memory) can beE put into the "alternate console" mode i.e. terminal vs graphics mode.   C You also need to set the console to server mode vs WS mode. In this G mode, the system did not care about the graphics status when it did its E self tests. From memory, I seem to recall this was done via a command  like:   6 >>> set server (or set xxx server where xxx is option) >>> help (to see options)   D While this might not explain the bug check, it might explain the SCC$ failure when the self tests are run.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:49:36 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  Subject: Re: DEC PWS433au memory) Message-ID: <ds7r6g$dgv$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>    In article <u5JFf.13607$Iy4.11286@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@icusc.com> writes:3 >Well we have LOADS and LOADS of 64MB DIMMS for PWS  > K >(we sell the bigger sets and basically stuff the small stuff into storage)  > I >If anyone out there is interested, we can sell 128MB kit for PWS for $45  >   N That's pretty good the best I found, guaranteeing compatibility, in the UK was    w http://www.memory-configurator.co.uk/DEC/Personal/Personal-Workstation-Model-433a--433au--500a--500au--600a--600au.html     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >David >  >--  >  >David B Turner  >Island Computers US Corp  >2700 Gregory St, Suite 180  >Savannah GA 31404 >Tel: 912 447 6622 X201  >Cell: 912 447 6622 X252 >Fax: 912 201 0402 >Email: dbturner@icusc.com >Web: http://www.islandco.com & >====================================== >All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions / >of sale. These should be read before ordering. & >http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html > ; >"Keith A. Lewis" <klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG> wrote in message ) >news:ds0qn5$pkp$1@newslocal.mitre.org... ) >> Eccles <nospam@home> writes in article H ><luidndRm6-kzeX7eRVnyjQ@brightview.com> dated Fri, 03 Feb 2006 23:18:11 >+0000:  >> >K >> >I picked up a DEC PWS 433au from ebay but it doesn't have any memory in K >> >it.  Can I use any 168-pin PC100 ECC SDRAM (so long as they're matched) 1 >> >or does it need to be proprietry DEC memory ? K >> >Also, given that I want to install VMS purely for hobbyist use, nothing E >> >serious or heavy going - how much would you reckon I would need ?  >>I >> Yes, generic memory works, in matched pairs.  I think you can even use  >> non-ECC.  >>I >> Define "hobbyist use".  I run an Alphastation 500 for Apache and audio  >with K >> only 192 MB, but I use 500 MB in my 500au which I use for DECwindows and  >> Mozilla.  >>3 >> --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org A >> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 08:51:19 -0800 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> Subject: Re: FaxSRC Message-ID: <1139244679.452786.227440@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G We used to use (and a number of our customers still do use) GoldFax, by C DPD.  The VMS version is still shown on their website so I'd assume @ they're still selling it.  Our systems use the PCL option to faxE 'printer output' direct to required locations, but it provides usable @ interactive service as well, even from mail and Wordperfect VMS.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 07:28:35 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: FOR070.DAT files appearing 3 Message-ID: <nUrGq3Z$wa9m@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <ds0s2e$e44$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes:  ) > But VAX was EOL a long time ago, and NO @ > development has been done on that compiler since the VMS/AlphaC > version was released, so it's stretching the idea to say that its  > "being sold today".)  G    Except that you can still buy it from HP.  Which is what most people %    would consider "being sold today".   H    Yes, I wish very much that my hobbyist VAX had at leas the same 90/95D    compiler my hobbyist Alpha has.  But that's not exactly a market.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:24:47 GMT S From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@earthlink.net> A Subject: Re: M e z e i discriminates against fat lesbian feminist D Message-ID: <PvMFf.14127$vU2.13052@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   M e z e i is a PIG wrote:   A > JF Mezei sockpupetting as "nobody <nobody@nobody.org>" trolled:  > I > >If you sit 3 obese women next to each other, should the airline charge K > >for extra seats ?  It might form one big ugly blob of fat with 6 sagging @ > >breasts and 3 heads on a 3 seat section, but they woudln't be  > >inconveniencing anybody else. > @ > But they'd probably be much better company on a flight than an > insane psycho troll like you.  > $ > And more decent human beings, too. > A > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/5e814528bf75efa9  >     ? The way that JF talks about women one has to wonder if he has a 
 girlfriend...   J Did he get dumped on by Connie Wong or Ellen or Sheryl Mexic I wonder - isJ that why he apparently harbours so much bitterness to the fairer sex...???   --   Best Greg   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 07:40:09 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>$ Subject: Re: null terminated strings+ Message-ID: <t3DFf.15296$H43.8635@trnddc08>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <ROkA$FxLQvjb@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > X >>In article <44epquF1rojsU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>I >>>Just an interesting (at least it was to me!) little side note.  People H >>>frequently attack C because of it's use of null terminated strings. IG >>>have pointed out int he pst that this was apparently not unique to C G >>>and Unix as the PDP-11 had a print routine in the Macro Library that G >>>expected null terminated string.  As another interesting data point, H >>>I am in the process of examining the binary of a Z80 program from theH >>>late 70's or very early 80's and, surpirse, surprise, all the stringsD >>>are null terminated.  Being as I know this program was built fromF >>>Pascal source, it looks even more like null terminated strings wereF >>>pretty much industry standard by the time Unix and C decided to use >>>them. >>D >>   Late 70s?  C is a product of the late 60s.  PASCAL came several >>   years after C.  >  > G > Sadly, no.  Jensen & Wirth are credited with creating Pascal in 1970. I > While the "creation" of C is listed as 1971 the language known as K&R C I > doesn't appear until 1978.  The whole language timeline is available on 
 > the web. >   H Nonsense.  The "standard" version of K&R C may date from 1978, but loadsE of it, including null-terminated strings, was inherited directly from C the original C language of 1972, and possibly from B (1970).  C and E Pascal both date from the late 60's/early 70's.  Jensen and Wirth was D published in 1974; they say the first compiler became operational inE 1970 and was published in 1971.  I'm sure Wirth and Ritchie were well  aware of each other's work.   9 The Z80 code you are looking at probably got the idea for B null-terminated strings from C (or from Unix, since C included theB C library which was designed for calling the Unix system services,E many of which use null-terminated strings, the use of null-terminated E strings in Unix may well precede the C language by several years, but C I don't know when specific routines were implemented, but certainly @ printf, scanf, gets and puts where all there from the beginning.  E Pascal doesn't use null-terminated strings (at least, if a particular B implementation does, it is invisible to the programmer), but maybe> you are talking about a Z80 assembler written in Pascal?  ThisA could certainly create null-terminated strings (in the Z80 code), C if the programmer who wrote the assembler was determined to make it @ work this way.  After all, it's just data to the Pascal program.  = That doesn't make it a good idea, and by 1978, lots of people < recognized null-terminated strings (and in-band signaling inD general) were a bad idea.  Still, there are lots of cases (constantsD in assembly language, etc., as Bill Todd points out), where they are	 harmless.   B If you test your code, you will soon find the place where you used* a .ASCII /FOO/ instead of .ASCIZ /FOO/ :-)   > I >>   PASCAL requires that the location and length of a string be tracked, G >>   but does not require an implementation.  Many PASCAL compilers use ? >>   counted strings.  Descriptors work, too.  I think the full E >>   functionality of PASCAL has always required that the _allocated_  >>   length be tracked.  >  > F > Apparently not.  :-)   Actually, early Pascals did not have a STRINGG > type (Jensen & Wirth for instance).  I believe it was UCSD that began G > the use of counted strings.  At least that was the first I saw and it - > seemed most followers used the same method.  >   E Jensen and Wirth has strings, at least to the extent C does... it has F characters (char), arrays of characters, and string constants.  A nullA (or any other character) in a string has no special meaning.  J&W F doesn't specify the implementation, or even the character set.  A charB is an element of a finite and ordered set of characters, which areA otherwise undefined, but are intended to map the computers native F character set.  If the computer uses ASCII, this would clearly includeB <NUL> as a valid member of the set, with no special meaning except& that it happens to be ordinally first.  H >>   This is different from C which requires the implementation be null 0 >>   termination and to track the _used_ length. >>E >>   Nothing prevents a C compiler from tracking the allocated length E >>   (the implementation of "pointer: as address is nearly universal, B >>   but not required), but compiler writers don't add things that" >>   the standard doesn't require. >>H >>   I think there was a product marketed under the name of Safe C whichD >>   would track allocated length and prevent buffer overruns but it >>   didn't sell.  >  > J > Personally, I would have no problem with someone writing a new C libraryK > that supported a better string concept.  But I don't figure there is much  > chance of it.      It's called "Java" :-) :-)     >    > bill >      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 03:26:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> $ Subject: Re: null terminated strings, Message-ID: <43E7083C.4BA837F2@teksavvy.com>  D One advantage of unstructured strings is that you can use any memoryC allocation routine to allocate a buffer and move the data yourself.   G My trusty PSION 3 uses "pascal" style strings with byte0 being a length C byte followed by that length's worth of characters. (strings cannot H exceed 255 bytes). When you need to call OS routines that are outside ofG OPL, you need to know that OPL strings are 1 byte followed by the text. G Some of the OS routines require null terminated strings, so you need to E obtain the address of the string, use a special OPL function to do an G unsigned add of 1 to it, then PEEK the value of the length, then poke a 6 0 at the end of the string, pass it to the OS etc etc.  E The K&R book has a whole chapter on the roots of C. The words "system ) programming language" is used frequently.   B Consider someone writing a real application on a Unix system whoseG underlying OS uses null terminated strings. Using pascal results in the C programmer spending cosniderable time converting to and from system   string to pascal string formats.  E This was also the case on the original macs where the system routines H expected pascal string formats at a time where people programmed in C or/ C++, requiring them to convert back and forth.      G And consider VMS where the C language's integration is not complete and E like on the MAC, the programmer spends time converting to /from C and E descriptors.  Some languages on VMS are better integrated with string G descritors directly supported by the compiler. Then there are languages G such as DCL or even ALLIN1 where you have no concept at all of internal  string representation.    H But on a Unix system, C's string representation is fully compatible withK the OS string representation and thus makes system programming much easier.     C When I personally went from "school" PASCAL to "business C", it was D quite a liberation. Finally I was allowed to do stuff that made lifeG much simpler and easier. (aka; pointers etc). Pascal is a good language  to learn first.   H ANSI-C removed some of that freedom, making C much more pedantic, but it$ is still more versatile than Pascal.  A C may not be excellent at anything, but it is good at everything.   C Where C's very primitive string represation costs is in CPU. Adding D characters to a string requires you count the string byte by byte toH find where it ends and then append to it. So from an efficiency point ofE view, keeping track of the string length in a separate variable makes - sense if you're going to be needing it often.   H Once one is aware of the limitations of the C string philosophy, you canH easily live with it and program defensively to avoid the pitfalls.  NoteH that VMS descriptors aren't perfect either since they don't contain bothF the allocated size and the currently used size. One needs to track one of these two separately.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:26:29 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> $ Subject: Re: null terminated strings= Message-ID: <43e72455$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:J > Personally, I would have no problem with someone writing a new C libraryK > that supported a better string concept.  But I don't figure there is much  > chance of it.   F Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think Apache comes with such a H library.  They had to change away from null-terminated strings in order  to avoid buffer overruns.   G Besides, you can use C++ and the string class in stead.  Unfortunately  F you may end up in a Babylonian tower of string implementations if you A need to support multiple languages.  On Windows you have the C++  H standard string class and M$'s similar class, both in a byte and a word G implementation.  Then you have Microsoft's old byte and word character  F sets and the newer ISO character sets.  Some libraries support one of E these character sets, others an other.  Converting between all these  E sets add code to the program, that makes it harder to debug and read.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 06:29:14 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: Re: null terminated strings( Message-ID: <ops4j2i0n6zgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:26:29 +0100, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam>    wrote:   > Bill Gunshannon wrote:K >> Personally, I would have no problem with someone writing a new C library I >> that supported a better string concept.  But I don't figure there is    >> much  >> chance of it. > I > Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think Apache comes with such a   K > library.  They had to change away from null-terminated strings in order    > to avoid buffer overruns.  > J > Besides, you can use C++ and the string class in stead.  Unfortunately  I > you may end up in a Babylonian tower of string implementations if you   D > need to support multiple languages.  On Windows you have the C++  K > standard string class and M$'s similar class, both in a byte and a word   J > implementation.  Then you have Microsoft's old byte and word character  I > sets and the newer ISO character sets.  Some libraries support one of   H > these character sets, others an other.  Converting between all these  G > sets add code to the program, that makes it harder to debug and read.   I PL/I is the only common language to to correctly and completely implement I string data types permiting fixed, variable and dynamic lengths  for both J bit and char types, and this is done at the semantic level of the language& without resorting to ad hoc libraries.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 02:32:06 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: PDPs in the news!3 Message-ID: <pJV1N+PKJ0Qm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43C40462.99E85379@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  E > The links don't work because they make gratuitous use of javascript * > instead of a simple <a href   statement. > E > And the front page has over 28 HTML errors. Obviously designed by a  > microsoft person/software.  / Obviously thrown together rather than designed.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 08:03:59 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: PDPs in the news!3 Message-ID: <2U4kzkS7ZSBW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <dq0cg3$1db$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>, dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) writes:  6 >  The author also seems a bit confused about what PDP > means.  G    The author may have read about them, but has probably never actually      seen a Purple Data Processor.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:01:33 +0000 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>- Subject: perl build error (& subscribe error) 4 Message-ID: <ds7dqu$35h$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk>  G Trying to build Craig Berry's vms perl kit with "submit build_perl" as   instructed.   H Fails with multiply defined DECC$POLL in DECC$SHR (final section of log  below). 9 VMS 7.3-1 Alphastation 255/233, MMS 3.4-3, DEC C 6.5-001.    Any suggestions anyone ?  : Tried to subscribe to the vmsperl list and got this error:F      SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<majordomo@perl.org>::      host mx.develooper.com [63.251.223.176]: 550 mail to $ majordomo@perl.org not accepted here   Thanks Chris    ...        Making IO (dynamic) Writing Descrip.MMS for IO1 %CREATE-I-EXISTS, [--.LIB.AUTO.IO] already exists @ MCR $2$dkb201:[tools.perlbuild.source]miniperl.exe "-I[--.lib]" D "-MExtUtils::Install" -e "pm_to_blib({split(' ',<STDIN>)},'[--.lib.a uto]','')" <.MM_tmp * cp [.lib.io]select.pm [--.lib.io]select.pm. cp [.lib.io]seekable.pm [--.lib.io]seekable.pm* cp [.lib.io]handle.pm [--.lib.io]handle.pm4 cp [.lib.io.socket]unix.pm [--.lib.io.socket]unix.pm& cp [.lib.io]poll.pm [--.lib.io]poll.pm$ cp [.lib.io]dir.pm [--.lib.io]dir.pm& cp [.lib.io]pipe.pm [--.lib.io]pipe.pm4 cp [.lib.io.socket]inet.pm [--.lib.io.socket]inet.pm* cp [.lib.io]socket.pm [--.lib.io]socket.pm& cp [.lib.io]file.pm [--.lib.io]file.pm cp io.pm [--.lib]io.pm@ MCR $2$dkb201:[tools.perlbuild.source]miniperl.exe "-I[--.lib]" D "-I[--.lib]" -e "use ExtUtils::Mksymlists;"     -e "Mksymlists('NAMEB ' => 'IO', 'DL_FUNCS' => {  }, 'DL_VARS' => [], 'FUNCLIST' => [])"= MCR $2$dkb201:[tools.perlbuild.source]miniperl.exe -e "print  G ""[--.lib.auto.IO]IO.olb/Include=(io,poll)\n[--.lib.auto.IO]IO.olb/Libr  ary\n"";" >>IO.OPT= MCR $2$dkb201:[tools.perlbuild.source]miniperl.exe -e "print  % qq{[--]PerlShr.exe/Share\n}" >>IO.OPT , Copy/NoConfirm IO.OPT [--.LIB.AUTO.IO]IO.OPT@ MCR $2$dkb201:[tools.perlbuild.source]miniperl.exe "-I[--.lib]" D "-I[--.lib]" [--.lib.ExtUtils]xsubpp  -typemap [--.lib.ExtUtils]type map IO.xs >IO.C  CC/DECC | /Include=[]/Standard=Relaxed_ANSI/Prefix=All/Obj=.obj/NoList/NOANSI_ALIAS/Define=("VERSION=""1.20""","XS_VERSION=""1.20""")/ Include=([--])/Optimize  IO.c  CC/DECC | /Include=[]/Standard=Relaxed_ANSI/Prefix=All/Obj=.obj/NoList/NOANSI_ALIAS/Define=("VERSION=""1.20""","XS_VERSION=""1.20""")/ Include=([--])/Optimize  POLL.c H If F$Search("[--.LIB.AUTO.IO]IO.OLB").eqs."" Then Library/Object/Create  [--.LIB.AUTO.IO]IO.OLB> Library/Object/Replace [--.LIB.AUTO.IO]IO.OLB IO.OBJ, POLL.OBJ1 %CREATE-I-EXISTS, [--.LIB.AUTO.IO] already exists = If F$TrnLNm("PerlShr").eqs."" Then Define/NoLog/User PerlShr   Sys$Share:PerlShr.exe 9 Link /NoTrace/NoMap /Shareable=[--.LIB.AUTO.IO]PL_IO.EXE  ) IO.opt/Option,[--]perlshr_attr.opt/Option 1 %LINK-W-MULDEF, symbol DECC$POLL multiply defined B          in module DECC$SHR file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$SHR.EXE;1G %MMS-F-ABORT, For target [--.LIB.AUTO.IO]PL_IO.EXE, CLI returned abort   status: %X10648268.   G %MMS-F-ABORT, For target DYNEXT, CLI returned abort status: %X10EE8034.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 06:59:38 -0600 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>1 Subject: Re: perl build error (& subscribe error) D Message-ID: <craigberry-2D692F.06593806022006@news.isp.giganews.com>  4 In article <ds7dqu$35h$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk>,2  Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote:  I > Trying to build Craig Berry's vms perl kit with "submit build_perl" as  
 > instructed.   J > Fails with multiply defined DECC$POLL in DECC$SHR (final section of log 	 > below). ; > VMS 7.3-1 Alphastation 255/233, MMS 3.4-3, DEC C 6.5-001.  >  > Any suggestions anyone ?  E Which version of my kit are you trying to build?  I fixed this issue   almost three years ago:   < http://public.activestate.com/cgi-bin/perlbrowse?patch=19023  G If you're using my earliest kit based on Perl 5.6.1, that's pretty old   now.  E You might also check your CRTL ECOs.  I think poll() was included in  7 the CRTL before they updated the header, or vice versa.   G If the particular set of extensions I included are important to you, I  C suggest you get perlbuild584.zip from the freeware v7 distribution:   3 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware70/perl/   & or one of the binary kits based on it.  > Other alternatives include the PCSI kit of Perl 5.8.6 that HP D distributes.  Perl 5.8.8 is now available if you want to build from  source:   ! http://ftp.perl.org/pub/CPAN/src/     < > Tried to subscribe to the vmsperl list and got this error:H >      SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<majordomo@perl.org>:< >      host mx.develooper.com [63.251.223.176]: 550 mail to & > majordomo@perl.org not accepted here   Just send any message to    ! vmsperl-subscribe AT perl DOT org   ; and you should get a confirmation e-mail with instructions.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:15:48 +0000 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>1 Subject: Re: perl build error (& subscribe error) 4 Message-ID: <ds7lml$6f0$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Craig A. Berry wrote: 6 > In article <ds7dqu$35h$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk>,4 >  Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote: >  > I >>Trying to build Craig Berry's vms perl kit with "submit build_perl" as  
 >>instructed.  >  > J >>Fails with multiply defined DECC$POLL in DECC$SHR (final section of log 	 >>below). ; >>VMS 7.3-1 Alphastation 255/233, MMS 3.4-3, DEC C 6.5-001.  >> >>Any suggestions anyone ? >  > G > Which version of my kit are you trying to build?  I fixed this issue   > almost three years ago:  > > > http://public.activestate.com/cgi-bin/perlbrowse?patch=19023  5 Oh, sorry - I googled for vms perl, and came up with   http://www.sidhe.org/vmsperl/  Now building 5.8.8.  Emailed the sidhe webmaster.   Thanks Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:27:08 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>F Subject: Posting errors on Google [was: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR]. Message-ID: <43E7328C.8403.1848BB50@localhost>  / On 6 Feb 2006 at 8:04, Steven M. Schweda wrote: E > An error message which didn't send the user to Google to puzzle out H > what went wrong would also be nice, in that case.  I have some relatedG > stuff on my Web server, and, from looking at the logs, I can tell you G > that plenty of folks are searching for READERR, BLOCKCRC, INVBLKSIZE, 9 > and INVRECSIZ.  Something in HELP /MESSAGE might help.    C How about creating one web page on the HP site with the texts from  C the library?  No need to fancy it up -- keeping a single text file  6 would probably be useful.    It would be REALLY handy.  > I'd do it myself, but that file is HP's property, after all...  A [Don't forget to include the TCPIP/UCX and other libraries, too.] 
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:08:29 +02007 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> & Subject: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR* Message-ID: <43e73c3f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  @ We hear a lot of complains that saveset attributes are lost when< moving BACKUP savesets around, typically the following error will be displayed:   $ back/list pc.bck/sav Listing of save set(s)  4 %BACKUP-E-READERR, error reading DSA10:[guy]PC.BCK;1, -BACKUP-E-BLOCKCRC, software block CRC error4 %BACKUP-E-INVBLKSIZE, invalid block size in save set4 %BACKUP-E-INVRECSIZ, invalid record size in save set  < We just added a new qualifier to allow BACKUP to attempt and repair the save-set.  ; Here is a simple example (look at the new REPAIRED message)   " IPL31> back/list pc.bck/sav/repair Listing of save set(s)  D %BACKUP-I-REPAIRED, saveset attributes changed to RFM=FIX, MRS=10240 Save set:          COMS.BCK  Written by:        GUY" UIC:               [000001,000004]* Date:               6-FEB-2006 13:51:54.226 Command:           BACK *.COM COMS.BCK/SAV/BLOCK=10000  K When I say "just added" I'm not kidding....this was completed 5 minutes ago  ;-)   , /REPAIR will probably ship with OpenVMS V8.3   Guy    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:34:55 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>* Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR= Message-ID: <PnHFf.266915$vl2.2748@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Guy Peleg wrote:  > > We just added a new qualifier to allow BACKUP to attempt and > repair the save-set. > = > Here is a simple example (look at the new REPAIRED message)  > $ > IPL31> back/list pc.bck/sav/repair > Listing of save set(s)  I Glad to see this feature at long last. What will happen if you attempt a  F BACKUP/LIST pc.bck/repair if you have only read access to pc.bck? I'd E like to see BACKUP still process the saveset even if it can't change  H file attributes. There have been cases in the past when this would have ( been handy for files on read-only media.  F > %BACKUP-I-REPAIRED, saveset attributes changed to RFM=FIX, MRS=10240 > Save set:          COMS.BCK  > Written by:        GUY$ > UIC:               [000001,000004], > Date:               6-FEB-2006 13:51:54.228 > Command:           BACK *.COM COMS.BCK/SAV/BLOCK=10000 > M > When I say "just added" I'm not kidding....this was completed 5 minutes ago  > ;-)  > . > /REPAIR will probably ship with OpenVMS V8.3 >  > Guy  >  >    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:59:02 +02007 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> * Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR* Message-ID: <43e74819@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  5 "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in message 7 news:PnHFf.266915$vl2.2748@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...  >  >  > Guy Peleg wrote: > @ > > We just added a new qualifier to allow BACKUP to attempt and > > repair the save-set. > > ? > > Here is a simple example (look at the new REPAIRED message)  > > & > > IPL31> back/list pc.bck/sav/repair > > Listing of save set(s) > J > Glad to see this feature at long last. What will happen if you attempt aG > BACKUP/LIST pc.bck/repair if you have only read access to pc.bck? I'd F > like to see BACKUP still process the saveset even if it can't changeI > file attributes. There have been cases in the past when this would have * > been handy for files on read-only media.  
 Depends......   / If the saveset format is intact.....nothing....   @ If the saveset format actually requires a repair and /REPAIR was$ specified , the operation will fail.   > H > > %BACKUP-I-REPAIRED, saveset attributes changed to RFM=FIX, MRS=10240 > > Save set:          COMS.BCK  > > Written by:        GUY& > > UIC:               [000001,000004]. > > Date:               6-FEB-2006 13:51:54.22: > > Command:           BACK *.COM COMS.BCK/SAV/BLOCK=10000 > > K > > When I say "just added" I'm not kidding....this was completed 5 minutes  ago  > > ;-)  > > 0 > > /REPAIR will probably ship with OpenVMS V8.3 > >  > > Guy  > >  > >  >  > --   > Alan Greig   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:04:29 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)* Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR2 Message-ID: <06020608042988_20331674@antinode.org>  ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>  K > Glad to see this feature at long last. What will happen if you attempt a  H > BACKUP/LIST pc.bck/repair if you have only read access to pc.bck? I'd G > like to see BACKUP still process the saveset even if it can't change  J > file attributes. There have been cases in the past when this would have * > been handy for files on read-only media.  F    That's about what I'd've said, too.  Not knowing how BACKUP reads aE save set, it's hard to say how difficult it would be to do it "right" @ (and silently) despite bad attributes, but that would be a nicer	 solution.   D    That said, /REPAIR would be considerably better than nothing.  AnE error message which didn't send the user to Google to puzzle out what G went wrong would also be nice, in that case.  I have some related stuff D on my Web server, and, from looking at the logs, I can tell you thatD plenty of folks are searching for READERR, BLOCKCRC, INVBLKSIZE, and2 INVRECSIZ.  Something in HELP /MESSAGE might help.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 08:07:03 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR3 Message-ID: <p5x$VMDSPNA+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <43e73c3f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes:  $ > IPL31> back/list pc.bck/sav/repair > Listing of save set(s) > F > %BACKUP-I-REPAIRED, saveset attributes changed to RFM=FIX, MRS=10240 > Save set:          COMS.BCK  > Written by:        GUY$ > UIC:               [000001,000004], > Date:               6-FEB-2006 13:51:54.228 > Command:           BACK *.COM COMS.BCK/SAV/BLOCK=10000 > M > When I say "just added" I'm not kidding....this was completed 5 minutes ago  > ;-)  > . > /REPAIR will probably ship with OpenVMS V8.3  A    Cool.  But if the saveset was made with /block=10000 why would     you set the MRS to 10240?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:23:50 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>* Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR+ Message-ID: <44p4fnF38orlU1@individual.net>    Bob Koehler wrote:f > In article <43e73c3f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes: >  > $ >>IPL31> back/list pc.bck/sav/repair >>Listing of save set(s) >>F >>%BACKUP-I-REPAIRED, saveset attributes changed to RFM=FIX, MRS=10240 >>Save set:          COMS.BCK  >>Written by:        GUY$ >>UIC:               [000001,000004], >>Date:               6-FEB-2006 13:51:54.228 >>Command:           BACK *.COM COMS.BCK/SAV/BLOCK=10000 >>M >>When I say "just added" I'm not kidding....this was completed 5 minutes ago  >>;-)  >>. >>/REPAIR will probably ship with OpenVMS V8.3 >  > C >    Cool.  But if the saveset was made with /block=10000 why would  >    you set the MRS to 10240? >   A Because BACKUP rounds the blocksize up to 10240 when you specify  & /blocksize=10000. I've just tested it.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:55:02 +02007 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> * Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR* Message-ID: <43e7634a@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  7 "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message , news:06020608042988_20331674@antinode.org...* > From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> > L > > Glad to see this feature at long last. What will happen if you attempt aI > > BACKUP/LIST pc.bck/repair if you have only read access to pc.bck? I'd H > > like to see BACKUP still process the saveset even if it can't changeK > > file attributes. There have been cases in the past when this would have , > > been handy for files on read-only media. > H >    That's about what I'd've said, too.  Not knowing how BACKUP reads aG > save set, it's hard to say how difficult it would be to do it "right" B > (and silently) despite bad attributes, but that would be a nicer > solution.  >   > Teaching BACKUP to do the right thing regardless of the formatI of the file is a mini project....thinking again....it is a major project, < far away from being trivial. Look at /REPAIR as a short term< solution....may be some day (this is not a commitment) we'll5 teach backup to be agnostic to the format of the file C ( this day may be close as we are looking at increasing the maximum  block size supported by BACKUP)   F >    That said, /REPAIR would be considerably better than nothing.  AnG > error message which didn't send the user to Google to puzzle out what I > went wrong would also be nice, in that case.  I have some related stuff F > on my Web server, and, from looking at the logs, I can tell you thatF > plenty of folks are searching for READERR, BLOCKCRC, INVBLKSIZE, and4 > INVRECSIZ.  Something in HELP /MESSAGE might help. > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org  >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:16:15 +0000 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>* Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR4 Message-ID: <ds7p7v$423$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk>   Guy Peleg wrote:9 > "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message . > news:06020608042988_20331674@antinode.org... > * >>From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> >>K >>>Glad to see this feature at long last. What will happen if you attempt a H >>>BACKUP/LIST pc.bck/repair if you have only read access to pc.bck? I'dG >>>like to see BACKUP still process the saveset even if it can't change J >>>file attributes. There have been cases in the past when this would have+ >>>been handy for files on read-only media.  >>H >>   That's about what I'd've said, too.  Not knowing how BACKUP reads aG >>save set, it's hard to say how difficult it would be to do it "right" B >>(and silently) despite bad attributes, but that would be a nicer >>solution.   ; RMS has a back door ($modify) for fiddling file attributes. 7 It works for readonly files (just modifies your 'view') C It works for files opened writeable - modifies your 'view' and the  
 on-disk copy. " Sounds like the desired behaviour.   Chris    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:16:42 +02007 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> * Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR* Message-ID: <43e7766e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  = "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message . news:ds7p7v$423$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk... > Guy Peleg wrote:; > > "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message 0 > > news:06020608042988_20331674@antinode.org... > > , > >>From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> > >>K > >>>Glad to see this feature at long last. What will happen if you attempt  a J > >>>BACKUP/LIST pc.bck/repair if you have only read access to pc.bck? I'dI > >>>like to see BACKUP still process the saveset even if it can't change L > >>>file attributes. There have been cases in the past when this would have- > >>>been handy for files on read-only media.  > >>J > >>   That's about what I'd've said, too.  Not knowing how BACKUP reads aI > >>save set, it's hard to say how difficult it would be to do it "right" D > >>(and silently) despite bad attributes, but that would be a nicer
 > >>solution.  > = > RMS has a back door ($modify) for fiddling file attributes. 9 > It works for readonly files (just modifies your 'view') D > It works for files opened writeable - modifies your 'view' and the > on-disk copy. $ > Sounds like the desired behaviour.  J I use $modify, and did not know that in readonly mode it just modifies the/ view.....however, it does not seem to work.....   5 IPL31> back/lis $1$dkb200:[000000]coms.bck/sav/repair  Listing of save set(s)  , %BACKUP-F-NOTREPAIRED, COMS.BCK not repaired) -RMS-E-WLK, device currently write locked   C I'll investigate it some more, and if possible, we'll make it work.    Thanks for the tip !!  >  > Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 08:31:19 -0800 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>* Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR% Message-ID: <1139243398.930844@smirk>    Guy Peleg wrote:  > > We just added a new qualifier to allow BACKUP to attempt and > repair the save-set.  . > /REPAIR will probably ship with OpenVMS V8.3  4 Guy, are you in competition to become the most-loved  of all the VMS developers?   :-)  ' Thanks a lot for this great time saver.    Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:45:19 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>* Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR/ Message-ID: <43E736CF.13764.18595E9A@localhost>   ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>( > Glad to see this feature at long last.  F There's a script floating around that does this as an unsupported DCL < script.  I modified it to allow wildcards, and posted it at:      http://www.stanq.com/free.html  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 13:14:36 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> * Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR/ Message-ID: <FOOdneJ3j-x5DHreRVn-tg@libcom.com>    Guy Peleg wrote:B > We hear a lot of complains that saveset attributes are lost when> > moving BACKUP savesets around, typically the following error > will be displayed: >  > $ back/list pc.bck/sav > Listing of save set(s) > 6 > %BACKUP-E-READERR, error reading DSA10:[guy]PC.BCK;1. > -BACKUP-E-BLOCKCRC, software block CRC error6 > %BACKUP-E-INVBLKSIZE, invalid block size in save set6 > %BACKUP-E-INVRECSIZ, invalid record size in save set > > > We just added a new qualifier to allow BACKUP to attempt and > repair the save-set. > = > Here is a simple example (look at the new REPAIRED message)  > $ > IPL31> back/list pc.bck/sav/repair > Listing of save set(s) > F > %BACKUP-I-REPAIRED, saveset attributes changed to RFM=FIX, MRS=10240 > Save set:          COMS.BCK  > Written by:        GUY$ > UIC:               [000001,000004], > Date:               6-FEB-2006 13:51:54.228 > Command:           BACK *.COM COMS.BCK/SAV/BLOCK=10000 > M > When I say "just added" I'm not kidding....this was completed 5 minutes ago  > ;-)  > . > /REPAIR will probably ship with OpenVMS V8.3 >  > Guy  >  >   1 A nice feature, and in my experience rather easy.   H However, it might be best to have the capability to diagnose and report E the findings without doing the repair.  This allows one to determine  C what is needed before committing any modifications.  It also would  G address Alan's question about read-only media.  It would be similar to  E ANA/DISK, with the capability to see a problem before committing any  E updates.  I never specify /REPAIR with disks until I see the issues,  5 then it's just a simple up-arrow and add the /REPAIR.   E I'm not aware of how BACKUP does it's I/O.  If it just uses RMS then  K being able to process the save set without the repair might be a big issue.   E Just speculating, if RMS is used, cannot a structure, or structures,  I such as FAB and RAB be set to process a file with a different recordsize  = than what's in the file header(s)?  My guess is probably not.   F If BACKUP does it's own I/O, then it should be able to read data into H internal buffers from any file, and then process the buffered data with H the recordsize used when creating the save set.  I've had to do similar  things and they work well.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:35:58 +02007 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> * Subject: Re: sneak preview - BACKUP/REPAIR* Message-ID: <43e79711@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  4 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message) news:FOOdneJ3j-x5DHreRVn-tg@libcom.com...  > Guy Peleg wrote:D > > We hear a lot of complains that saveset attributes are lost when@ > > moving BACKUP savesets around, typically the following error > > will be displayed: > >  > > $ back/list pc.bck/sav > > Listing of save set(s) > > 8 > > %BACKUP-E-READERR, error reading DSA10:[guy]PC.BCK;10 > > -BACKUP-E-BLOCKCRC, software block CRC error8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVBLKSIZE, invalid block size in save set8 > > %BACKUP-E-INVRECSIZ, invalid record size in save set > > @ > > We just added a new qualifier to allow BACKUP to attempt and > > repair the save-set. > > ? > > Here is a simple example (look at the new REPAIRED message)  > > & > > IPL31> back/list pc.bck/sav/repair > > Listing of save set(s) > > H > > %BACKUP-I-REPAIRED, saveset attributes changed to RFM=FIX, MRS=10240 > > Save set:          COMS.BCK  > > Written by:        GUY& > > UIC:               [000001,000004]. > > Date:               6-FEB-2006 13:51:54.22: > > Command:           BACK *.COM COMS.BCK/SAV/BLOCK=10000 > > K > > When I say "just added" I'm not kidding....this was completed 5 minutes  ago  > > ;-)  > > 0 > > /REPAIR will probably ship with OpenVMS V8.3 > >  > > Guy  > >  > >  > 3 > A nice feature, and in my experience rather easy.  > I > However, it might be best to have the capability to diagnose and report F > the findings without doing the repair.  This allows one to determineD > what is needed before committing any modifications.  It also wouldH > address Alan's question about read-only media.  It would be similar toF > ANA/DISK, with the capability to see a problem before committing anyF > updates.  I never specify /REPAIR with disks until I see the issues,7 > then it's just a simple up-arrow and add the /REPAIR.  >    Excellent idea !  ; Very easy to implement as well....the greatest challange is / finding a good name for the qualifier or option   F > I'm not aware of how BACKUP does it's I/O.  If it just uses RMS thenF > being able to process the save set without the repair might be a big issue. > F > Just speculating, if RMS is used, cannot a structure, or structures,J > such as FAB and RAB be set to process a file with a different recordsize? > than what's in the file header(s)?  My guess is probably not.  > G > If BACKUP does it's own I/O, then it should be able to read data into I > internal buffers from any file, and then process the buffered data with I > the recordsize used when creating the save set.  I've had to do similar  > things and they work well. >  > --  6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 03:40:22 -0800 + From: "Dr. Dweeb" <comp.os.vms@hotmail.com> 0 Subject: Re: The Pentium Chronicles (2006.01.31)C Message-ID: <1139226022.797839.305690@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G Interesting question.  I suspect that the technical issue is relatively < trivial, while the political issues would be insurmountable.  F Back when the Rdb8/NT thing was done, there was still room to manouvre; in the NT database space.  SQL Server still sucked bigtime.   F Today, I doubt whether any commercial product can hope to compete withB O10 and SQLServer and DB2 for any sort of enterprise level target.G Oracle has no motivation to compete against itself and I doubt that the E current manning levels at Rdb engineering would support another port.   B Its too bad, Rdb8 was a really slick implementation of the engine.F Problem is of course that in the Windoze world, its the GUI tools thatE determine "quality & functionality".  The journalists who write about > such things and 99% of all Windoze developers can hardly spellE transaction, never mind understand the subtelties of isolation levels D or any of the exceptionally cool features of Rdb.  Ask an Oracle DBAG about transactional DDL and/or metadata versioning and you will get the E same blank stare that you get from a moose looking into an 18-wheeler  rig headlights.    But I digress.  C OracleRdb is in decline along with VMS so Oracle10G is my future. I F will thus be retiring within the forseeable timeframe.  My life is wayD too short for me to even contemplate that as a pastime for 50% of my
 waking hours.   	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:59:38 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: The Pentium Chronicles (2006.01.31)2 Message-ID: <KnKFf.2683$UA7.1568@news.cpqcorp.net>   Richard Maher wrote:I > Is the Rdb Workbench kit stilll x86 only? The last I heard was Oracle's J > official line was that Rdb would continue to be VMS only. But with a nowM > fully (stll freeware?) supported BLISS compiler for IA64 and with WindowsXP J > Server Something on IA64, how hard would it be to get a supported Rdb on
 > Windows?  ? The calling standard, the object format, the debug format, and  F system-primitives (like interlocked queue instructions, etc.) are all 5 different.  Those are important things to a compiler.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:21:20 GMT + From: Allison-nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 8 Message-ID: <nmfeu1doesdcqroqecr9is6gq1bm7arq96@4ax.com>  D On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:42:26 -0600 (CST), sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:   / >From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>  > K >> What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is it I >> limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive  >> to it to boot?  > . >From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > ? >> I do not believe VMS has ever booted from DAT, just disk and C >> (for standalone Backup only) disk-emulating tapes like the TK50.  > G >   The TK50 emulates a tape, not a disk.  (It's a very good emulation, G >too, except for the speed.)  You may be thinking of the TU58.  I'm not F >sure that I could find it, but I'm pretty sure that I have an ExabyteI >8500 tape with Standalone BACKUP V7.2 on it.  (Also RX23 floppies, but I I >had to fiddle STABACKIT.COM to make it, and that was for a VAXsta 3138.)   ? TK50 can stream or can  be a block structured device like disk.   & Tu58 was exclusively block structured.   Allison  > , >> Of course it can also boot from Ethernet. > 	 >   True.  > . >From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> > ) >> [Distracting Q-bus diversion omitted.]  > > >From: "Alan Scott" <alan dot scott at dial dot pipex dot com> > - >> [Distracting SCSI disk diversion omitted.]  > ) >From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>  > B >> As I recall, the TK50s which worked with it were only a partialJ >> implementation of SCSI. No problem booting from the TK50 my VS2000 came2 >> with, except for the time it took of course :-) > B >   As I've reported here repeatedly over the years, I've used theE >TK50Z-FA and the -GA with non-2000 systems with no trouble, although H >it's been a while, now.  The -GA worked on an AlpSta 200 4/233 the last< >time I tried it, too, but I may not have tried a -FA there. > , >From: Allison-nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net > I >> The disk size limitations for the VS2000 is around 200mb (no mfm disks  >> larger were made).  [...] > H >   The RD54 (Maxtor XT-2190) was 159MB (312375 blocks) formatted, 190MB% >unformatted, and it was the biggest.  > H >> I have two TLZ04s and while the work fine with VS3100 the 2000 is not >> a viable host.  > H >   Wouldn't surprise me.  As I recall, the 2000 didn't even work with aG >TK50Z-xA when it wasn't set at ID 1.  I don't remember trying non-TK50 2 >tape drives on a 2000 (at ID 1 or anywhere else). > $ >From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> > G >> IIRC there was a German hobbyist who claimed that the tape expansion J >> bus was actually a  crippled SCSI bus. He had a website  that explainedG >> how to upgrade 2000's tape bus to a fully functional SCSI bus. Can't   >> find a current pointer though > F >   Wolfgang J. Moeller.  Look for "PK2K".  I never tried it, but what@ >could go wrong?  Of course you need to program the EPROMS.  Try# >"ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/".  > I >------------------------------------------------------------------------  > 5 >   Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818 4 >   382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org >   Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 12:27:39 GMT + From: Allison-nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 8 Message-ID: <bqfeu1p5iboo3ggo32n4epuhssvvgudemh@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 04:17:24 GMT, Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net>  wrote:  2 >On 2006-02-06, H Vlems <hvlems@freenet.de> wrote:G >> IIRC there was a German hobbyist who claimed that the tape expansion J >> bus was actually a  crippled SCSI bus. He had a website  that explainedG >> how to upgrade 2000's tape bus to a fully functional SCSI bus. Can't   >> find a current pointer though > H >It IS a SCSI bus, and it's only crippled by software. The hardware is a. >NEC 5380 or clone, a popular SCSI controller.  9 I think I'd said that maybe twice or three times already.   E The controller is NCR5380, NEC never did that part.  However the part E requires a great deal of bit twiddling to implement and if not driven D correctly its not only is broken software but the flavor of SCSI is A broken as well even though the lines are electrically compatable.   / >You're looking for Wolfgang Moeller in Google.    Yes, I think PK2K.     Allison    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 07:54:44 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 3 Message-ID: <1Zl+kxRgobfp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43E64E6B.3B8438B9@T-Online.de>, Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de> writes: > Hi!  > J > What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is itH > limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive > to it to boot? >   F    It can also boot from the network, if you have a boot server.  SCSIG    tapes like DAT probably won't work because the bus isn't quite SCSI.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 07:56:13 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 3 Message-ID: <O45W8GsER5z+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43E660F3.87E21152@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Frank Themann wrote:K >> What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is it I >> limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive  >> to it to boot?  > J > My microvax II could boot from CD and any SCSI disks with a DILOG SQ739 G > QBUS-SCSI controller. But the DEC QBUS-SCSI controllers did not allow   > one to boot from such devices. > A > IT really depends on what interface your DAT drive has and what I > interfaces your 2000 supports. Does the Vaxstation II have a QUBUS slot  > for expansion ?   G     A VAXStation 2000 is not a VAXStation II, and does not have a Qbus. +    Or does the OP happen to also have a II?    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2006 08:00:14 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices 3 Message-ID: <mIa42GulgP19@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <1139196891.949394.164450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> writes: F > IIRC there was a German hobbyist who claimed that the tape expansionI > bus was actually a  crippled SCSI bus. He had a website  that explained F > how to upgrade 2000's tape bus to a fully functional SCSI bus. Can't > find a current pointer though   B    There was a hardware oriented magazine I got back in those daysF    that discussed modifying the bus so as to accept a SCSI disk largerE    than anything DEC was selling for the 2000.  After this they felt  C    the 2000 rivaled thier 11/780 in CPU performance, RAM, and disk      capacity.  F    IIRC they did not try to boot from anything other than the original    disk shipped by DEC.         ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:32:06 +0100 . From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>) Subject: Re: VAXstation 2000 boot devices + Message-ID: <43E77A06.95B71C30@T-Online.de>    Hi!   E Thanks for all those replies I got - to be precise, the problem is as  follows:  ? I would like to prepare a standalone backup kit on a medium the D VAXstation 2000 can boot. Aftre tht, a TK50 tape needs to be read toE restore the system disk. All systems I got can write either TK70, 1/2 @ inch (TSZ07), and, DAT (TLZ04) tapes. My TK50 doesnt work on myF VAXstation 4000, either because of a faulty TK50 drive, or, because it" is not compatible (I doubt it...).     Thanks     Frank    Frank Themann wrote: >  > Hi!  > J > What devices can a VAXstation 2000 boot from, besides a hard disk? Is itH > limited to just a TK50, or, is it possible to connect a DAT tape drive > to it to boot? >  > Any help is appreciated. >  > Thanks >  > Frank    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.074 ************************