1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 19 Feb 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 100       Contents: "A Historical Look at the VAX"" Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX"P Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with a foot in both caP Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with afoot in    both 5 Re: Availability Manager/DECamds product announcement D How to copy the top level of a website to get rid of Javascript etc?7 Re: KZPEA in ES45 with serial console only -- run bios? 7 Re: KZPEA in ES45 with serial console only -- run bios?  Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile - Re: What is going on with VAX prices on ebay? 4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 07:14:28 -0500 + From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> ' Subject: "A Historical Look at the VAX" A Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0602190713540.17424@frank.harvard.edu>   ? http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT012406203308    --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell "Turn on, log in, tune out"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:36:02 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> + Subject: Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" 6 Message-ID: <X%1Kf.80$XZ3.18755@news20.bellglobal.com>  8 "Chip Coldwell" <coldwell@gmail.nospam> wrote in message; news:Pine.LNX.4.61.0602190713540.17424@frank.harvard.edu...  > A > http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT012406203308  >  > --   > Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell > "Turn on, log in, tune out"  > I Very cool. I noticed that the author of this article has been talking to:   I 1. Bob Colwell (Intel Architect of PentiumPro + Pentium-4; author of "The H     Pentium Chronicles" which I have just finished and highly recommend)H 2. Andy Glew (Intel Architect of PentiumPro; multithreading architect at     AMD)# 3. Andy Goldstein (VMS design team) ; 4. Dileep Bhandarkar (Alpha Architect now working at Intel) % 5. Sue Skonetski (OpenVMS evangelist)   H p.s. I loved VAX as much as the next guy but when you see a replacement K technology emerge with 10 times more power, at one-tenth the price, you've  $ got to give yourself a realty check.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:12:58 +1030 * From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au>Y Subject: Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with a foot in both ca 0 Message-ID: <11vg76vfv4ueg5d@corp.supernews.com>  D Just posted this to ITRC and thought I might put it into the public G domain in case the fickle finger of fate decided to pick up the eraser  	 again :-)   , ............................................   Hi John.  F At the risk of cheekily tempting the Fates again please find included H the original announcement (the only other correspondence to me has been G the form-letter email included at the top of this thread). Many thanks  E for trying to discover whether this was a simple mistake that easily  H could have been corrected or counter-productive company policy enforced E by ITRC militia. I was beginning to think HP (and I know you are not  F 'it' ... but better than ;-) was ignoring this. It's a carbon-copy of ? the announcement made concurrently on c.o.v. and that Alex has  ( generously provided us with a pathway to   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/6787efceeee4020f/e594502ae3452334?q=soymail&rnum=1#e594502ae3452334   E I am baffled how anyone, not stalled between Freud's ages of two and  C four years, could take offence at what was obviously an attempt at  F humorous play when trying to generate a handle for some new software. H Even more than twenty-four months after coming up with the name soyMAIL D I still smile (which is perhaps more of an insight than I should be H providing). When explaining it to my daughter living in New Zealand she D took a second to register and then burst out laughing saying it was E 'typical'. Perhaps that wasn't a compliment after-all ;-) Perhaps it  G should have been left at /cgi-bin/yahmail2 or or /cgi-bin/yahmailii or  I (just to make it interesting for our Apache brethren) /cgi-bin/yahmailII.   I Of course, thanks for your time, and to all those here and on c.o.v. who  4 have also remarked they found the removal suprising.  - ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   ; Subject: "ANN: yahMAIL is dead - long live son of yahMAIL!"   B The sometime refered to, long awaited (by some), much anticipated F (again, by some), twelve months in the making, successor to yahMAIL - 5 son of yahMAIL - is now available for (BETA) download    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/  H It supports Apache, OSU and WASD on all VMS platforms and versions from  V6.0.   ; Note that this is a *BETA* release - so be careful with it!   E Obviously don't bet the company on it. I have been using this for my  G personal email ever since it became somewhat usable (~four months ago)  I and it seems pretty stable. Of course that's one of the purposes of BETA  G testing, to get it off your test-bench and away from your own patterns  D of usage. A small band of hardy BETA-testers have already got their I hands on this and reported issues that have been fixed and made function  D suggestions. Be gentle with your comments and wish-list items - you B don't want to discourage me too vigorously so early in this phase!  H If you're going to create a specific language or help file(s) then note H that although the contents are fairly stable, as it's a BETA release it 0 may need revision in the not too distant future.   Here's some more information:   	 Overview: 9 http://wasd.vsm.com.au/soymail/-/doc/soymail_overview.pdf : http://wasd.vsm.com.au/soymail/-/doc/soymail_overview.html Install and Admin:6 http://wasd.vsm.com.au/soymail/-/doc/soymail_admin.pdf7 http://wasd.vsm.com.au/soymail/-/doc/soymail_admin.html  On-line user Help:+ http://wasd.vsm.com.au/cgi-bin/soymail?help   D If you're going to email me privately then include "soyMAIL" in the G subject line so that if you end up quarantined by anti-SPAM you can be   relatively easily identified.   F +--------------------------------------------------------------------++ Mark Daniel http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaide D mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)8 A pox on the houses of all SPAMers. Make that two poxes.E +-------------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:36:40 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>Y Subject: Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with afoot in    both  + Message-ID: <45rl4oF84j5qU1@individual.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > J > Yeah. Nothing more frustrating when they point to some PDF document. AndI > instead of being able to click on it and "SAVE AS" the document without C > actually loading it, you have to copy the URL (which includes the H > javascript shit) and then open a new window, paste the url, remove theE > superfluous javascript shit and open the document and then save it.  > G Yes, BTDT, but yesterday what I did was swipe the mouse across the URL  E to highlight it rather than clicking on it, then used copy and paste.   G This stripped the javascript stuff, and in Safari this works even with   wrapped lines.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2006 09:11:03 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: Availability Manager/DECamds product announcement, Message-ID: <43f83627$1@news.langstoeger.at>  c In article <s69ojMlpFfI4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: f >In article <43f79763$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:? >> And don't forget, DCX doesn't always detect download errors. E >> You end up with a corrupt .PCSI* file, but DCX doesn't tell you...  > ; >Such detection should be accomplished with Secure Delivery  > 5 >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/securedelivery.PDF   C And in the meantime they keep using DCX and keep well known errors. + ZIP[SFX] is way better and can be used NOW.   B Strange, why one needs to tell the same story over and over again.4 The adoption rate is slow (but fortunately is there)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:55:45 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>M Subject: How to copy the top level of a website to get rid of Javascript etc? + Message-ID: <45rm8iF84i6tU1@individual.net>    The problem:  I I frequently visit a couple of websites (not my own) I wish to make more  F accessible to disabled and older folks (and for that matter those who " only have a trackpad on a laptop).  H The problem is that the main pages are full of Javascript and extremely B tricky to navigate with a mouse, even for someone with good motor  coordination and eyesight.  @ What I would like to do is grab the main page(s) to rip out the B mouseover highly graphical whizz bangs there and put a plain HTML  compliant menu in there.  G Fr my intitial attempt I want to host the simplified index pages on my  I own systems, but do not wish to use my own bandwidth for more than that,  G and of course I want to avoid copyright infringement issues by copying   the information beneath.  A I have Apache on both Mac OS X and VMS (hence my posting to both  H comp.os.vms and comp.sys.mac.system) and would like to know how best to  do this.  > wget and htdig come to mind, but I am open to all suggestions.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:42:37 +0000 (UTC) . From: Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com>@ Subject: Re: KZPEA in ES45 with serial console only -- run bios?, Message-ID: <dt9p3t$n3b$1@reader2.panix.com>  W On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 22:26:39 -0600, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  > Dale Dellutri wrote: > > A > > I'm considering getting a KZPEA for use in an ES45 which only B > > has a serial console;  the ES45 does not have a graphics card. > > B > > The KZPEA specs say that it needs a "video monitor" to run theA > > bios on it to do things like, for example, change the SCSI id  > > (it defaults to 7).  > > @ > > Has anyone successfully run the bios on this card in an ES45C > > with only a serial console (attached to a VT520 or equivalent)?  > > ? > > If not, has anyone successfully run the bios on the card by @ > > first putting it in a PC and running the bios and setting it > > up in a PC?  > > 7 > > The KZPEA is actually an Adaptec AIC-7899, I think.   I > Perhaps a dumb question, but does the card's BIOS run on the card or on  > the machine's own CPU?  = I think it runs on the card's own (small) CPU, because it can F certainly be run on a PC.  (Now I think that the card is actually the + Adaptec 39160, according to a FreeBSD site: :   http://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.0R/hardware-alpha.html )   F > If the latter, would a BIOS intended to run on Alpha run on Intel as > well?   ? I think it's the former.  That's why I wondered if it would be  > possible to run the card's BIOS by putting it into a PC first.  B Another disturbing note about this card.  According to the Adaptec 39160 user's reference: @   If you connect a SCSI hard disk drive to the Adaptec SCSI Card?   39160 that was previously connected to a different SCSI card, A   you must low-level format the drive before you can use it. Back .   up the data on the drive before you move it!? Can this really mean what it says?!?  If I take a drive running > on another machine whose controller is a KZPCA, for example, I; can't just plug it into the supposedly "hot swappable" slot ; controlled by the KZPEA?  The KZPEA docs don't mention this  problem.  > Does anyone have actual experience with this KZPEA controller?   --  7 Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2006 05:17:48 -0800' From: "MattF" <mf-g2@mfsrv.demon.co.uk> @ Subject: Re: KZPEA in ES45 with serial console only -- run bios?B Message-ID: <1140355068.804747.85110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  C > > > I'm considering getting a KZPEA for use in an ES45 which only D > > > has a serial console;  the ES45 does not have a graphics card. > > >    >From the release notes:  	 ---------   E A video adapter card is recommended to run the on-board configuration D utility. On systems such as the HP DS10L, this is not possible sinceF there is only 1 available PCI slot, which precludes the use of a KZPEAC board and a video board.  On these systems and any others where the G choice may be limited to using the serial mode of console operation the  following steps are suggested:  G At the SRM console prompt, ensure that the console mode of operation is B set to "serial." Go into the KZPEA configuration utility by typing> "run bios pkx0", where x is the assigned letter of the board'sF channel A.  Once the utility is started and the user has typed controlE A in response to the board's inquiry as to whether any of the factory @ settings need to be changed - at this point the terminal's setupD mode must be invoked to enable the cursor as the KZPEA configurationG utility disables the cursor when it starts running.  When the cursor is E enabled, exit out of the terminal's setup mode to return to the KZPEA  utility and proceed from there.   ? If your terminal does not present either a flashing cursor or a F highlight to indicate where the cursor is, you will not be able to useG the serial emulation mode to configure the KZPEA module. Therefore, you F must have a video board installed in your system or you must configure? the KZPEA in another system and then install it in your system.    ---------------   G There were also notes in the user guide about the configuration utility  only working in hose 0.    HP page is:   = http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/products/storage/kzpea/      > > > 9 > > > The KZPEA is actually an Adaptec AIC-7899, I think.  > F Adaptec 39160 (Genuine adaptec - If you try to use an OEM one it failsD since the PCI id's are different - my Compaq branded proliant spares refused to work)  K > > Perhaps a dumb question, but does the card's BIOS run on the card or on  > > the machine's own CPU? >   > The KZPEA card has the configuration utility/bios in flash ramB (Intel-X86 code), the Alpha has an X86 emulator in the firmware toG initialise graphics cards / execute SCSI card config utils - e.g. KZPBA C / KZPEA (if it knows about them anyway - min SRM/AlphaBIOS versions  apply)  D > Another disturbing note about this card.  According to the Adaptec > 39160 user's reference: B >   If you connect a SCSI hard disk drive to the Adaptec SCSI CardA >   39160 that was previously connected to a different SCSI card, C >   you must low-level format the drive before you can use it. Back 0 >   up the data on the drive before you move it!A > Can this really mean what it says?!?  If I take a drive running @ > on another machine whose controller is a KZPCA, for example, I= > can't just plug it into the supposedly "hot swappable" slot = > controlled by the KZPEA?  The KZPEA docs don't mention this 
 > problem. >   6 Didn't see that in the KZPEA user guide/release notes.  @ > Does anyone have actual experience with this KZPEA controller? >   F Seemed to work fine in a DS10L, no performance testing done though andF not connected to external disks. (And for hobbyist/non-production use)   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Feb 2006 04:19:36 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)   Subject: Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile! Message-ID: <8Z6U10kq9gPI@wvnvms>   s In article <yKSJf.14866$2O6.6143@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US> writes: @ > I recently built Mosaic 3.9 with SSL support (0.9.7E). I builtE > the OpenSSL as in the OPENSSL.README file, that is with no specific # > TCP/IP specified.  It works fine.  > C > I wanted to build lynx 2.8.5 with SSL support also and found that D > with OpenSSL built this way that https urls do not work. I've readB > that Lynx needs OpenSSL to be built with the same TCP/IP packageA > as lynx is built with.  Building Lynx with MULTINET and OpenSSL F > with Multinet (actually defaults to UCX) does not work for http urlsA > either.  So now I am building both with SOCKETSHR.  (I couldn't > > build Lynx with UCX, it needed include files I didn't have). > > > If I have OpenSSL built with socketshr will I have a problemF > If I ever wanted to rebuild Mosaic?  Mosaic doesn't have a socketshr@ > build option, but it built fine with no TCP/IP option defined.  @ I don't know any reason why Mosaic would also need built againstA socketshr.  I suppose there could be problems caused by a process ? accessing the TCP/IP stack via two separate methods.  It's also C possible the build might fail due to .H file incompatibilities, but @ that could probably be worked around by creating a non-socketshrE version of the OpenSSL includes.  You could even keep two sets of the B OpenSSL OLBs and switch them around as needed when you link either Mosaic or Lynx.      George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 08:34:00 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: What is going on with VAX prices on ebay?0 Message-ID: <C01DDDF8.1BD73%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 2/17/06 5:20 PM, in articleA ZDuJf.20088$vU2.4415@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Tom Rowe"  <trowe@infionline.net> wrote:   K > Anybody know what is driving up the cost of VAXen and VAXStations on ebay K > lately?  You used to be able to get them for $10 - $30 dollars.  Now they L > are going for at least a couple hundred.  Still not bad for a machine thatL > originally costs several thousand.  However, unfortanutely more than I can > afford right now.  > K > I did buy 3 3100's of of e-bay 5 or 6 years ago, and never did get one to M > work.  If any body has a working 3100 or 4000 that they would be willing to 5 > part with at a reasonable price please let me know.  > 
 > Thanks.  >  > F Maybe folks are realizing that for data security it's cheap insurance.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2006 23:03:56 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering C Message-ID: <1140332636.552783.131620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > In article <43f76b88$1@news.langstoeger.at>, eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter > 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: > { > > In article <dt7kbj$j13$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: L > > >If the batch job is retained on error, then how can the entry number be > > >reused? > >  > > If it is reused before.  > > P > > And if the operator deletes the entry before I analyze the situation (again)  > > then even after the error... > . > /RETAIN=ALWAYS and have a reliable operator?  E Well, then he has thousands of jobs to clean up from the queues every B day. And he has a harder time finding the ones that completed with, error, which is what he has to follow up on.  @ Actually, maybe he should /NORETAIN and SEARCH the log files for errors!   - Reliable operator? Is there such a thing? ;-)    AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2006 23:09:54 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering C Message-ID: <1140332994.023581.179540@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote: " > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > > d > > In article <43F6A30C.BCF5B109@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:N > > >> you can see, that the same entry number is used more than once per day.# > > >> And this is very annoying...  > > >> > > >> Anybody ? Hoff ?  > > > I > > >Well, if I understand the issue, it sounds like you may be trying to , > > >track batch jobs by their entry number. > > H > > Not at all. I only have a lot of (equally named) logfiles and I needH > > to find out why entry x failed (and hangs around retained on error).H > > Searching with the entry number (and the date) is not enough becauseD > > there are more than one entry number x per day. Thats all folks. > B > Well, SHOW ENTRY/FULL on a retained entry shows the time the jobF > completed. So, DIRECTORY/MODIFIED using /SINCE and /BEFORE should be > able to narrow it down:  > @ > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir/noprot/nosize/date=(cre,mod) login.com; >  > Directory DKA0:[DDACHTERA] > G > LOGIN.COM;1           3-SEP-1997 16:24:35.65  28-NOV-1998 21:25:44.81  >  > Total of 1 file.E > DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir/mod/sin="28-NOV-1998 21:25"/bef="28-NOV-1998  > 21:26" login > .com >  > Directory DKA0:[DDACHTERA] > ? > LOGIN.COM;1                1/9         3-SEP-1997 16:24:35.65  > (RWED,RWED,RE,)  >  > Total of 1 file, 1/9 blocks. > I > Sorry, didn't have a queue entry handy to use as an example, but that's F > what I mean: bracket the target time using /SINCE and /BEFORE valuesG > with MODIFIED and less granular sample time for each qualifier should $ > give you everything in that range. > G > That said, let me ask this: can you modify whatever SUBMITs the jobs?  >  > If you can, try this:  > % > $ SUBMIT/qualifier(s) filespec/HOLD & > $ JENTRY = F$FAO( "!7ZL", '$ENTRY' )C > $ SET ENTRY '$ENTRY'/LOG=[ddcu:<dir>]filename_'JENTRY'.LOG/NOHOLD  > G > That will produce fewer logs to sift through since you can then get a G > listing of every entry number used for that job in ascending order by  > entry number.  > E > Personally, though, I agree with Michael: if the job is retained on I > error, that entry number won't be re-used so long as that queue remains  > retained.   E That's not his problem. Imagine his queue numbers run from 1 to 1000. F His system runs 3000 jobs one day. Now he has found that entry 442 hasE been retained on error. Now which of the 3 log files that contain 442 G is the one that was retained in the queue??? Even though job 442 may be E reatined in the queue, that same number may have been used earlier in  the day.    3  So, you'll know when the job ended and you can use F > DIRECTORY/MODIFIED with /SINCE and /BEFORE to nail down the log file' > based on the SHOW ENTRY/FULL display.  > H > Depending how fast these jobs finish, you may even be able to use someH > DCL code to accept a retained entry number and find the log by gettingJ > the log spec. from F$GETQUI( "DISPLAY_ENTRY", "LOG_SPECIFICATION", ... )I > (apply suitable defaults if that returns a null string) and by trimming ? > the fraction of the second off the F$GETQUI( "DISPLAY_ENTRY",  > "JOB_COMPLETION_TIME", ... ).  > B > $ JCMT = F$GETQUI( "DISPLAY_ENTRY", "JOB_COMPLETION_TIME", ... )! > $ JRDT = F$ELEM( 0, ".", JCMT ) 7 > $ JRDT1 = F$CVTIME( "''JRDT'+00:00:01", "ABSOLUTE", ) ) > $ JLOG = F$ELEM( 0, ";", log_filespec ) ; > $ DIRECTORYX/SIZE=ALL/DATE/MOD/SIN=&JRDT/BEF=&JRDT1 &JLOG  >  > Hope this helps...  A Yes, something like this should work, but why not just SEARCH the F logfiles for error messages? Well, I suppose that would take some timeC if he has thousands of them and we don't know how large they are or % what kinds of errors are encountered.    >  > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > ( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page# > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/  > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:24:48 +1100 $ From: Phaeton <phaeton@iinet.net.au>= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering J Message-ID: <43f81d41$0$30774$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>  
 AEF wrote: > / > Reliable operator? Is there such a thing? ;-)   D 	Yes. I was one of them :-), for many years. Always with full privs.  E                                                        Cheers,  Csaba   E --------------------------------------------------------------------- F   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  phaeton at iinet dot net dot auE --------------------------------------------------------------------- <     EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:     What has a front has a back.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:23:18 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering $ Message-ID: <dt9rg6$1ii$1@online.de>  C In article <1140332636.552783.131620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, ' "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:     > > > If it is reused before.  > > > R > > > And if the operator deletes the entry before I analyze the situation (again)" > > > then even after the error... > > 0 > > /RETAIN=ALWAYS and have a reliable operator? > G > Well, then he has thousands of jobs to clean up from the queues every D > day. And he has a harder time finding the ones that completed with. > error, which is what he has to follow up on.   Easily automated in DCL.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2006 09:17:31 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering , Message-ID: <43f837ab$1@news.langstoeger.at>  w In article <dt83b9$mgl$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: I >In article <43f76b88$1@news.langstoeger.at>, eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter  >'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:  > z >> In article <dt7kbj$j13$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:L >> >If the batch job is retained on error, then how can the entry number be  >> >reused?  >>   >> If it is reused before.   >>  O >> And if the operator deletes the entry before I analyze the situation (again)  >> then even after the error...  > - >/RETAIN=ALWAYS and have a reliable operator?   9 No. Having a reliable Queue Manager is the better option. 4 Why do you want to explode your .QMAN$JOURNAL file ?  , So, please, stop it, EOD, its getting boring --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2006 09:33:45 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering B Message-ID: <1140370425.397297.60860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: E > In article <1140332636.552783.131620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, ( > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >  > > > > If it is reused before.  > > > > T > > > > And if the operator deletes the entry before I analyze the situation (again)$ > > > > then even after the error... > > > 2 > > > /RETAIN=ALWAYS and have a reliable operator? > > I > > Well, then he has thousands of jobs to clean up from the queues every F > > day. And he has a harder time finding the ones that completed with0 > > error, which is what he has to follow up on. >  > Easily automated in DCL.  D Yes, but there are disadvantages. Maybe with new, faster boxes it isD not a performance issue (I work with MicroVAX 3100 Models 80,90,95).D But having literally thousands of jobs to delete daily I would thinkE performace issue. Also, do you really want to run SHOW QUEUE commands * with thousands of jobs? I would think not.  B And with thousands of jobs per day that's one every few seconds onF average. You'd have to be careful with timing. You might lose a job or two through the cracks.   B I still don't see why Peter just can't put an index or time in his6 log-file names. But he doesn't care anymore, so be it.   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2006 09:36:53 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering C Message-ID: <1140370613.229281.187840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:y > In article <dt83b9$mgl$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: K > >In article <43f76b88$1@news.langstoeger.at>, eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter  > >'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:  > > | > >> In article <dt7kbj$j13$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:M > >> >If the batch job is retained on error, then how can the entry number be 
 > >> >reused?  > >> > >> If it is reused before. > >>Q > >> And if the operator deletes the entry before I analyze the situation (again) ! > >> then even after the error...  > > / > >/RETAIN=ALWAYS and have a reliable operator?  > ; > No. Having a reliable Queue Manager is the better option. 6 > Why do you want to explode your .QMAN$JOURNAL file ? > . > So, please, stop it, EOD, its getting boring > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist  G What? You didn't like my Top Ten? I guess you don't get "The Late Show" G with David Letterman over there. If you were in Finland you could watch  Late Night with Conan O'Brien.  B I still don't see why you can't put an index in the log-file name.  F You ask for help without fully describing the problem, we try to help,E you clarify, we help again with several ideas, and you go pooh. Fine.    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:23:18 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering 9 Message-ID: <NZKdnQu7YMykKmXenZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@libcom.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > In article <43f72bd0@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter > 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:   >  > b >>In article <43F6A30C.BCF5B109@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>K >>>>you can see, that the same entry number is used more than once per day.   >>>>And this is very annoying... >>>> >>>>Anybody ? Hoff ? >>> G >>>Well, if I understand the issue, it sounds like you may be trying to * >>>track batch jobs by their entry number. >>F >>Not at all. I only have a lot of (equally named) logfiles and I needF >>to find out why entry x failed (and hangs around retained on error).F >>Searching with the entry number (and the date) is not enough becauseB >>there are more than one entry number x per day. Thats all folks. >  > J > If the batch job is retained on error, then how can the entry number be 	 > reused?  > 0 > I'm sure that I don't understand your problem. > E > Can you have each batch job write its own entry number into the log I > file?  When something is retained on error, then, as long as you don't  J > delete the entry, the number can't be reused, and you can just look for $ > the entry number in the log files. >   G His problem is that the entry number with the problem is not the first  G use of that job number that day.  It's the second, or third use of the   job number.   H You're thinking of another later job re-using the job number.  It works 
 both ways.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.100 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      