1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 20 Feb 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 102       Contents:" Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX"" Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX"" Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX"" Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX"" Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" F$GETDVI suggestions Re: F$GETDVI suggestions Re: F$GETDVI suggestions" F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses)0 Re: F$GETSYI to get cluster's founding node name+ Installing Disk Shadowing - What is Needed? 6 Re: LD devices in shadowsets on fault tolerant cluster6 Re: LD devices in shadowsets on fault tolerant cluster" Re: More VMS & DCL wish list items, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs? Problems with L&TT (Library and Tape Tools) on V8.2 (Long post) C Re: Problems with L&TT (Library and Tape Tools) on V8.2 (Long post) - Re: What is going on with VAX prices on ebay? 4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering4 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2006 22:39:09 -0800( From: "David Kanter" <dkanter@gmail.com>+ Subject: Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" C Message-ID: <1140417549.616218.146540@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D > Much has been said about the VAX's inability to scale up in speed. > E > While I understand that fancy chip logic such as pipelining, branch G > prediction etc is made much harder with variable length instructions, H > wouldn't raw clock speeds be more dependant on the FAB process than on > the instruction formats ?   F Increasing clockspeed without improving the supporting architecture isC like putting a high RPM engine in a cheap ass car without improving A anything else...you'll be lucky to survive the experience with an  intact car.   J > When looking at the 8086 in the 1990s, how much of its added performanceI > came from just process shrinks and higher clock speeds versus improving C > the actual architecture implementation to require fewer cycles to  > execute instructions ? > G > Based on HP's web site, there are a number of VAXes whose TPM exceeds  > that of early Alpha models.  > G > I don,t think that one would ever debate that Alpha, having a sleeker J > instruction set, had greater potential than VAX. But i am wondering justJ > how fast DEC could have made VAX if it had decided to stick with VAX. InG > the end, being superior is what killed Alpha because Intel desperatly C > wanted it dead so its own failed chip woudln't look so bad. SPARC O > managed to stay under the radar because it isn't seen as a threath to anyone.   B Some of these issues will be addressed in the 2nd and 3rd article.% Keep in mind this is a 3 part series.    DK   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:36:51 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> + Subject: Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" 3 Message-ID: <slrndvj3de.61r.rivie@stench.no.domain>   7 On 2006-02-20, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: ( > I'm guessing the concept of pipelines H > and such may not have existed when the VAX 11/780 was a collection of 	 > boards.   C I was under the impression that the "concept of pipelines" has been , around since IBM's Stretch in the late '50s. --  
 roger ivie rivie@ridgenet.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:42:56 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> + Subject: Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" 9 Message-ID: <WWhKf.3245$%14.155817@news20.bellglobal.com>   3 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message  ; news:6.1.2.0.2.20060219163058.025d1ec0@raptor.psccos.com... * > At 03:45 PM 2/19/2006, Neil Rieck wrote: >  [snip] > K > If memory also serves, the original VAX 8600 microcode had a flaw in it,  M > in that it was missing what was considered to be a very obscure addressing  H > mode of some sort (I never did find out the details).  Turned out the 7 > COBOL compiler generated code using it extensively...  > I I never worked on the 8600. Was the microcode easily changed (as was the   case for the VAX-11/750)?   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:51:23 -0500 , From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" = Message-ID: <43fa02a7$0$17684$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>   H If I remember correctly, the 8600 to 8650 upgrade was a microcode changeK that removed the NOP's that made it slower and a wire add to the backplane. I Of course, for the cost of the upgrade, folks got a new backplane to make  them happy.    rtt   4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message3 news:WWhKf.3245$%14.155817@news20.bellglobal.com...  > 4 > "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message= > news:6.1.2.0.2.20060219163058.025d1ec0@raptor.psccos.com... , > > At 03:45 PM 2/19/2006, Neil Rieck wrote: > >  > [snip] > > L > > If memory also serves, the original VAX 8600 microcode had a flaw in it,C > > in that it was missing what was considered to be a very obscure 
 addressingI > > mode of some sort (I never did find out the details).  Turned out the 9 > > COBOL compiler generated code using it extensively...  > > J > I never worked on the 8600. Was the microcode easily changed (as was the > case for the VAX-11/750)?  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >  >     . *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***X *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:00:13 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>+ Subject: Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" 2 Message-ID: <dtd03d$nco$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  5 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message  3 news:WWhKf.3245$%14.155817@news20.bellglobal.com...   X > I never worked on the 8600. Was the microcode easily changed (as was the case for the  > VAX-11/750)?  < Yep. Just spin down the console RL02 and put a new pack in.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:29:10 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: F$GETDVI suggestions , Message-ID: <43F9B5DA.5E66E3F5@teksavvy.com>  H 1- Get a flag on whether a volume rebuild is needed or not for that disk   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:50:35 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: F$GETDVI suggestions , Message-ID: <43F9BADE.F81C6665@teksavvy.com>  /  On can get the allocation class with ALLOCLASS   E But can one get the actual device name without the allocation class ?   D eg: for device $2$dka200 , I can get "2" with ALLOCLASS. But can any  item code give me "DKA200" ?????   If not, there should be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:44:00 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: F$GETDVI suggestions , Message-ID: <43F9B953.44EC5ABC@teksavvy.com>  H 2- add a CLUMOUNTCNT to get the real mount count for a device. (MOUNTCNT is a useless item code)   G 3- add a CLUERRORS item code to give cluster-wide total error count for  the device.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:52:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses) , Message-ID: <43F9BB5B.A270B368@teksavvy.com>  B F$GETSYI should be enhanced so that one can request the primary IP@ address of any host in the cluster, as well as its IP host name.  F It should also allow one to get a host's primary ethernet address (eg: first ethernet card).    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 08:04:27 -0800 From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>9 Subject: Re: F$GETSYI to get cluster's founding node name B Message-ID: <1140451467.601093.70880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  > What's really weird about this is that the code show is almostF identical to the cluster display code in SHOW_NODE_INFO.COM   I made aE lot of changes to the procedure from its originally distributed form, = but I have no idea where the cluster display code originated.   ? See:  http://dcl.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/04/04/7482362   G There is a section for displaying cluster info if the node it is run on D is a member of a cluster.   There are changes I made to this code toE suit my own aesthetics about what it should look like, but I'm pretty   sure that I didn't originate it.  ' If it's originally yours David, thanks!    Robert   David J Dachtera wrote:  > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > > D > > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote on 02/17/2006 > > 11:08:12 PM: > > # > > > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > > > >  > > > > M > > -------8<----------------------------------------------------------------  > > > > [snip] > > > > @ > > > Hhmmm up to this point, bears a striking resemblance to my > > SHCLU.COM... > > >  > > 
 > > David,D > > This may well be yours.  What I saved (and later quickly posted)@ > > does not have an Author block.  I certainly did not write it > > originally, H > > and I did not claim it as mine, only posted it in case it would lead > > toD > > a solution.  It is of course not a perfect match to the problem. > > H > > In any case, with full apologies, credit to the actual developer and > > non  > > intended a moi.  > G > Hey - by all means: use it, modify it, make if fit your needs. That's H > why I post it. I don't want credit; then again, no one has sent me any > contributions, either. >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 05:32:07 -0800+ From: "Shawn M." <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net> 4 Subject: Installing Disk Shadowing - What is Needed?C Message-ID: <1140442327.905283.263300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi All,   A We have just added a disk shelf to our DS20E Alpha Server running  OpenVMS V7.2-1.   F This server already has a Storage Shelf attached to it, however, it is+ using hardware raid via a SWXCR Controller.   B We are thinking about just using Disk Shadowing on the new storageC shelf and I wanted to make sure that other than the license, that I 3 have everything I need to make this work correctly.   D I am not planning on shadowing my System Disk as this is being takenF care of by the SWXCR Shelf.   Would the following values be correct in the Modparams.dat File.    SHADOWING=2  SHADOW_SYS_DISK = 0  SHADOW_SYS_UNIT = 0  SHADOW_MAX_COPY=2   E Also which patches should I make sure have been installed in order to D have everything up to the correct levels for the version of OpenVMS?   Thanks in advance for any help.    Shawn    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 05:29:36 -0800 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk? Subject: Re: LD devices in shadowsets on fault tolerant cluster C Message-ID: <1140442176.008616.253190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   @ Oops!  the previous should also say with minicopy/minimerge too.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 05:27:28 -0800 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk? Subject: Re: LD devices in shadowsets on fault tolerant cluster B Message-ID: <1140442048.492361.34900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  F Isn't this getting WAY too hard?  If the disks need to be partitioned, I'd be asking myself why.   F If the reason is that the disk names have to be configured for severalF different disks, use rooted logicals so that one physical disk appearsD as several "virtual" disks (virtual only in the sense that the disksE are not really called, say, DISK$DATA_1, DISK$DATA_2, ... DISK$DATA_n  but are just called DISK$DATA)   e.g.G $ MOUNT/SYSTEM/CLUSTER /SHAD=($1$DKA100:,$1$DKB100:,$3$DKA100:) DSA100:  DATA $ CREATE/DIR DISK$DATA:[DATA_1]  $ CREATE/DIR DISK$DATA:[DATA_2] F $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC/TRANS=(CONCEALED) DISK$DATA_1 DISK$DATA:[DATA_1.]F $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC/TRANS=(CONCEALED) DISK$DATA_2 DISK$DATA:[DATA_2.]  G This has the drawback (if indeed it is a drawback) that you can overrun E the 2GB limit on your disk but, that said, it does have the advantage C that the database application won't fail just because the container  file got full.   Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:30:18 +0100 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs567@tiscali.de>+ Subject: Re: More VMS & DCL wish list items , Message-ID: <srqctd.cuk.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   David J Dachtera wrote: F > From a thread about finding *THE* log file for a specific batch job: > C > o We need to have SHOW ENTRY/FULL, and co. be able to display the I > explicit, fully qualified filespec of the job's log file, including the  > correct version number.   I ... and we need some more qualifiers to select the jobs to be displayed,   e.g.      /since=... /before=...   
 together with   7    /started or /completed (default would be /completed)   
 and/or the  :    /queue=... (obviously wildcards would be _very_ useful)   and maybe more ...   Albrecht   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2006 16:22:24 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs ! Message-ID: <1GKc23G66lKG@sinead>   _ In article <1140186176.547137.251260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: H > we are now constantly hearing the apps are the problem from unix/linuxF > users and you should not run them ... well on OpenVMS you can alwaysH > run them because you can limit their security to what ever you need toE > and ALWAYS run an app, even an insecure one because if I put it can  > onlyF > do what I let it ... windoze, forget it ... actually, this is funny, > what good isG > having open source if you can not run all open source apps on the OS?  >    [...]   L Yes, VMS is superior unless you want to play music ... No more multimedia on Integrity servers ...    Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr              ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA)         / /   /     / /|  /|J Athis-Mons France              / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 08:15:54 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs 3 Message-ID: <kgNJumpvfQs1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1140186176.547137.251260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: H > we are now constantly hearing the apps are the problem from unix/linuxF > users and you should not run them ... well on OpenVMS you can alwaysH > run them because you can limit their security to what ever you need toE > and ALWAYS run an app, even an insecure one because if I put it can  > onlyF > do what I let it ... windoze, forget it ... actually, this is funny, > what good isG > having open source if you can not run all open source apps on the OS?  > H > The CERT counts have proved it, and now the apps argument confirms it,D > anyone running their enterprise on anything else but vms (and that
 > includesA > web and email) is foolish and is losing money and productivity.  >   F I don't know about others here who run applications on other operatingD systems, but I'm finding Bob's repeated comments that people who runI applications on other operating systems to be stupid/foolish people to be  _really_ annoying.  H Bob, you seem to be overlooking a simple reality: Nobody here is denyingI that VMS is anything other than an excellent and secure operating system, F but in order to be able to use an application on VMS, that application- must actually be _capable_ of running on VMS.   J Do I wish that I could run all my Linux based applications on VMS which in< turn is running on affordable hardware (including laptops) ?   Yes, of course I do.  ; Can I actually run those applications on VMS ? No, I can't.   G Bob may suggest porting these applications to VMS, but porting just one A major application may take months, even assuming that many of the H pre-requisite libraries are available, which in many cases they are not,J so they would have to be ported as well. A couple of the applications thatH I list below don't even have source code available, so you would have to! pay the vendor to port it to VMS.   B So Bob, given the choice between running an application _today_ orH embarking on a massive porting effort that may take many months and withH no guarantee of success, which option do you think that most people will choose ?  H Here is a sampling of some of the applications (and games) that I run onC Linux across a wide range of areas at home (I can't talk about work G application usage, but similiar issues apply, and people are using many $ of the below in a work environment).  I Please feel free to suggest where I may download the VMS version of these , applications (or the functional equivalent).  L Others may wish to also ask Bob for the VMS location of their Linux packages# that they would like to run on VMS.   > Electronic design software - Vutrax - http://www.vutrax.co.uk/A 	(I use the free 256 pin version, an acceptable alternative would ( 	be Eagle from http://www.cadsoft.de/ ).  : Office software - Open Office - http://www.openoffice.org/  D RTOS development for x86/ARM targets - RTEMS - http://www.rtems.com/D 	(This application requires a full GNU tool set, including binutils,: 	that is capable of been used in a cross compilation mode.  A 	A pre-requisite would be a _current_ version of GCC for VMS that C 	supports Ada and can be built as a cross-compiler to generate code " 	for x86 and ARM embedded targets.  @ 	Both a Linux native and Linux hosted cross-compiled Ada capable? 	_current_ GCC can be easily generated from freely downloadable C 	source kits. AFAIK, a VMS version cannot be - feel free to correct  	me if I am wrong Bob.)   E GUI development - GTK2 with GtkAda bindings - http://www.gtk.org/ and B 	https://libre2.adacore.com/GtkAda/main.html . Note that only GTK1? 	is available for VMS. Although a port to GTK2 appears to be in @ 	progress at http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html: 	I note the warnings about using glib1 for production use.  K Flight simulator - http://www.flightgear.org/ . An excellent simulator that = 	can be easily and widely extended. Note: don't even think of B 	using this on anything other than a system with hardware graphics 	acceleration.  E A general CAD package - http://www.brlcad.org/ - it's unclear if this ; 	actually _runs_ on VMS or if the source code has just been  	bundled on the SIG Tapes.  H So Bob, where can I pick up versions of the above packages or functional% equivalents that can be used on VMS ?   H [Yes, I know that this is a long response, but I'm hoping that enough ofD it may sink in for Bob to stop attacking those that wish/need to use! a range of today's applications].    Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP I If Google's motto is "do no wrong", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ?    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2006 14:43:48 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs + Message-ID: <45u2t4F8ft1iU1@individual.net>   3 In article <kgNJumpvfQs1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, E 	clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:  > J > [Yes, I know that this is a long response, but I'm hoping that enough ofF > it may sink in for Bob to stop attacking those that wish/need to use# > a range of today's applications].   D That was undoubtedly a complete waste of time.  I doubt boob has the> requisite comprehensive ability to grasp any of what you said.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 07:42:09 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs C Message-ID: <1140450129.222007.122900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   = games in a work environment?  I want to work where you do! :)   ? Openoffice is currently being ported to vms ... they need help, # so why do not you sign up and help?   < I am saying that vms runs almost everything for the backend,> and also for web and mail services, and anything can be ported> to vms, or developed (programming) if it is not ... my company> has needs for apps all the time that I cannot buy or download, so I WRITE THEM!  A There are always exceptions like a flight simulator, but how many  companies require that?   ? There is NO excuse to not at least be running your DBs, web and B mail services on a virus free, hacker free environment ... OpenVMS4 offers all of those and more ... can you grasp that?   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 12:44:36 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs 3 Message-ID: <6VS3tb9G$LsQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1140450129.222007.122900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: ? > games in a work environment?  I want to work where you do! :)  >   
 Hello Bob,  J I would have thought that stating that I was talking about my home systemsI and that I couldn't talk about applications running at work made it clear 9 that I was talking about running games at home, NOT work.   J However, since I obviously didn't express that clearly enough, let me makeF this clear: I do not run games at work; I don't even allow things likeF media players to be used on my work networks unless they are been used in a work capacity.   J The examples of things like electronic circuit design, office applicationsL and embedded x86/ARM RTOS development are examples of things that people areM actually using Linux for in production use, (even though I personally am only G using them at home), and for which there are no VMS viable equivalents.   A > Openoffice is currently being ported to vms ... they need help, % > so why do not you sign up and help?  >   G Getting one application onto VMS does not get the range of applications G that I use onto VMS, so helping to port Open Office does not get me any / further towards been able to use a VMS desktop.   > > I am saying that vms runs almost everything for the backend,@ > and also for web and mail services, and anything can be ported@ > to vms, or developed (programming) if it is not ... my company@ > has needs for apps all the time that I cannot buy or download, > so I WRITE THEM! >   G The problem with that is that you are not qualifying your statements to J refer to only backend services, but you are expressing a desire to run allG applications on VMS which is not viable these days for the reasons that 
 I have given.   C Also writing pieces of software to give you commercial advantage is B different from choosing a platform for large applications that areE an essential prerequisite for a particular line of business/research, 3 but do not give any otherwise commercial advantage.   C > There are always exceptions like a flight simulator, but how many  > companies require that?  >   E You tend to find things like the simulators been used in a university D environment - simulators like FlightGear that can be extended are anD excellent way of testing your own control software and understandingD various issues. See http://www.flightgear.org/Projects/ for examples of what others are doing.   A > There is NO excuse to not at least be running your DBs, web and D > mail services on a virus free, hacker free environment ... OpenVMS6 > offers all of those and more ... can you grasp that? >   D Yes, Bob, I can grasp that, which is why I run VMS as a backend when
 practical.  @ The problem is that people are not made aware of VMS as a viable! alternative for backend services.    Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP I If Google's motto is "do no wrong", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ?    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 07:40:56 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> H Subject: Problems with L&TT (Library and Tape Tools) on V8.2 (Long post)C Message-ID: <1140450056.739706.118000@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G Has anyone run the HP Library & Tape Tools utility on an Alpha VMS V8.2 B system yet?  This system is a fresh install - no patches have beenF installed as of yet and a minimum of layered products have been added.E I just down loaded V4.0-1 of LTT and am having trouble making it work A correctly.  The current setup is listed below.  When I attempt to E execute the program it sends the cursor to the top left corner of the C screen, sends the cpu to 100% and sits for approximately 10 minutes C before spitting out a several thousand line long trace dump which I G have partially reproduced below.  Any thoughts would be welcome.  Sorry C about the formatting.  This is probably viewed best in a mon-spaced  font such as courier.      Environtmental Information:    $ product show product< ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------5 PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE < ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------9 CPQ AXPVMS CDSA V2.1-331            Full LP     Installed 9 CPQ AXPVMS CSWB V1.7-11             Full LP     Installed 9 CPQ AXPVMS GTK V1.2-10              Full LP     Installed 9 CPQ AXPVMS OPL V1.0-0A9             Full LP     Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V8.2          Full LP     Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.5             Full LP     Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS GNV V1.6-2               Full LP     Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V8.2             Platform    Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.5-11            Full LP     Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS VMS V8.2                 Oper System Installed 9 HP AXPVMS AVAIL_MAN_BASE V8.2       Full LP     Installed 9 HP AXPVMS KERBEROS V2.1-72          Full LP     Installed 9 HP AXPVMS LTT V4.0-1                Full LP     Installed 9 HP AXPVMS TDC_RT V2.1-69            Full LP     Installed < ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------   14 items found>  $ show logical usr:    "USR" =3D "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.OPT.LTT.MISC.USR]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) $ show logical sys$posix_root 0    "SYS$POSIX_ROOT" =3D "GNU" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)? 1  "GNU" =3D "$1$DGA1:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.GNV.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  $ show default$   SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.OPT.LTT] $ show term > Terminal: _TNA2:      Device_Type: VT100         Owner: _TNA2:>                                               Username: SYSTEM0 Remote Port Info: Host: 192.168.10.90 Port: 1561  B    Input:    9600     LFfill:  0      Width: 132      Parity: None0    Output:   9600     CRfill:  0      Page:   24   Terminal Characteristics: E    Interactive        Echo               Type_ahead         No Escape ?    Hostsync           TTsync             Lowercase          Tab G    Wrap               Scope              No Remote          No Eightbit C    Broadcast          No Readsync        No Form            Fulldup B    No Modem           No Local_echo      No Autobaud        HangupE    No Brdcstmbx       No DMA             No Altypeahd       Set_speed G    No Commsync        Line Editing       Overstrike editing No Fallback F    No Dialup          No Secure server   No Disconnect      No PasthruF    No Syspassword     No SIXEL Graphics  No Soft Characters No Printer Port>    Numeric Keypad     ANSI_CRT           No Regis           No
 Block_modeG    Advanced_video     No Edit_mode       DEC_CRT            No DEC_CRT2 >    No DEC_CRT3        No DEC_CRT4        No DEC_CRT5        No
 Ansi_Color(    VMS Style Input    <CTRL-H> Backspace   $ show dev mg /full   B Magtape $2$MGA0: (ASIMOV), device type COMPAQ SDX-500C, is online, record- F     oriented device, file-oriented device, available to cluster, error logging F     is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction  disabled), device     supports fastskip (per_io).   <     Error count                    0    Operations completed   97635 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size      512 '     WWID   0C000008:0800-4606-C02B-4ECF .     Density                     AIT2    Format	 Normal-11 $     Allocation class               2  G   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.   B Magtape $2$MGA1: (ASIMOV), device type COMPAQ SDX-500C, is online, record- F     oriented device, file-oriented device, available to cluster, error logging F     is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction  disabled), device     supports fastskip (per_io).   <     Error count                    2    Operations completed   97640 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size     8192 '     WWID   0C000008:0800-4606-C02B-4EE3 .     Density                     AIT2    Format	 Normal-11 $     Allocation class               2  G   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.   G Magtape $2$MGA2: (ASIMOV), device type TZ89, is online, record-oriented  device, @     file-oriented device, available to cluster, error logging is enabled,A     controller supports compaction (compaction  disabled), device  supports     fastskip (per_io).  <     Error count                  205    Operations completed   13180 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size      512 8     WWID   04100022:"DEC     TZ89     (C) DECCXA02S3073".     Density                     TK87    Format	 Normal-11 $     Allocation class               2  G   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.   E Magtape $2$MGA3: (ASIMOV), device type TZ89, is online, file-oriented  device, C     available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device supports  fastskip     per_io).  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed       0 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size     2048 8     WWID   04100022:"DEC     TZ89     (C) DECCXA02S2106".     Density                  default    Format	 Normal-11 $     Allocation class               2  C   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, position lost, odd parity.    $  $run hp_ltt  (B)0[1;24r[m[?7h. %CXXL-F-TERMINATE, terminate() or unexpected()F called%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows  image    module7   routine             line      rel PC           abs PC   = HP_LTT                                     0 00000000013F9058  00000000013F9058= HP_LTT                                     0 00000000013F7D94  00000000013F7D94= HP_LTT                                     0 00000000013F81F0  00000000013F81F0= HP_LTT                                     0 00000000013F8618  00000000013F8618= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA61AC  0000000000CA61AC= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA731C  0000000000CA731C= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9F038  0000000000C9F038= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9E674  0000000000C9E674= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9F4D4  0000000000C9F4D4= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA2D38  0000000000CA2D38= HP_LTT                                     0 000000000104C378  000000000104C378= HP_LTT                                     0 000000000104C454  000000000104C454= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CE8F5C  0000000000CE8F5C= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA73A8  0000000000CA73A8= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9F038  0000000000C9F038= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9E674  0000000000C9E674= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9F4D4  0000000000C9F4D4= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA2D38  0000000000CA2D38= HP_LTT                                     0 000000000104C378  000000000104C378= HP_LTT                                     0 000000000104C454  000000000104C454= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CE8F5C  0000000000CE8F5C= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA73A8  0000000000CA73A8= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9F038  0000000000C9F038= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9E674  0000000000C9E674= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9F4D4  0000000000C9F4D4= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA2D38  0000000000CA2D38= HP_LTT                                     0 000000000104C378  000000000104C378= HP_LTT                                     0 000000000104C454  000000000104C454= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CE8F5C  0000000000CE8F5C= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA73A8  0000000000CA73A8= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9F038  0000000000C9F038= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9E674  0000000000C9E674= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000C9F4D4  0000000000C9F4D4= HP_LTT                                     0 0000000000CA2D38  0000000000CA2D38= HP_LTT                                     0 000000000070F740  000000000070F740   <big, big snip>   = HP_LTT                                     0 0000000001400028  0000000001400028= PTHREAD$RTL                                0 00000000000572E8  FFFFFFFF80A512E8= PTHREAD$RTL                                0 0000000000030444  FFFFFFFF80A2A444=                                            0 FFFFFFFF80333F94  FFFFFFFF80333F94 [24;1H  [?1l>  $=20 $    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 18:34:38 +01006 From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)L Subject: Re: Problems with L&TT (Library and Tape Tools) on V8.2 (Long post), Message-ID: <43fa0bbe$1@news.langstoeger.at>   In article <1140450056.739706.118000@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes: H >Has anyone run the HP Library & Tape Tools utility on an Alpha VMS V8.2C >system yet?  This system is a fresh install - no patches have been G >installed as of yet and a minimum of layered products have been added. F >I just down loaded V4.0-1 of LTT and am having trouble making it workB >correctly.  The current setup is listed below.  When I attempt toF >execute the program it sends the cursor to the top left corner of theD >screen, sends the cpu to 100% and sits for approximately 10 minutesD >before spitting out a several thousand line long trace dump which IA >have partially reproduced below.  Any thoughts would be welcome.   F Not only a problem of V8.2. I've seen this on V7.3-2 too (with V4.0-0,G V4.0-1 is only 2 weeks old - and yet another pure kit .PCSI, which gets J corrupted during download - I hate them doing this - Please use ZIP[SFX]).+ And we have a lot of VMS732 ECOs installed.   F btw: You find LTT on HPs web via opsys "OpenVMS v7". Where did you get3 the idea from that it should also run on V8.2 ? ;-)   8 And I don't think it is 10min here, more like few hours.J Maybe it depends on the count of tape devices it assumes (and timeouts)...L We have 12 MGA devices (how about 12x5min here vs 2x5min in your case ? :-))   >$ show logical sys$posix_root/ >   "SYS$POSIX_ROOT" = "GNU" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > >1  "GNU" = "$1$DGA1:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.GNV.]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  " We don't have Posix/Gnv installed." Why do you think it is important ?   >$ show default % >  SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.OPT.LTT]  >$ show term? >Terminal: _TNA2:      Device_Type: VT100         Owner: _TNA2:   ? We have seen it with VT100 but also with VT220, VT300 Series...    >$ >$run hp_ltt >(B)0[1;24r[m[?7h / >%CXXL-F-TERMINATE, terminate() or unexpected() G >called%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows  image    module 8 >  routine             line      rel PC           abs PC  @ It took me almost 2 days to capture the start of the stack dump.G It is seemingly umpteen thousand lines long (and you have to wait hours E before it starts). And no help from HP so far (they only wanted us to 1 reinstall - usual with [former] windows products)   ' Will do another try with V4.0-1 soon...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2006 05:33:43 -0800 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk6 Subject: Re: What is going on with VAX prices on ebay?C Message-ID: <1140442423.269136.258780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D Shame I ended up dumping three VAXstation 3100s (a pair of model 30sE and a model 38) last year.  Should have kept hold and flogged them on 	 Ebay! :o(   > I do have a 4000-200 in a BA215 if someone's desparate though.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:49:14 +1100 $ From: Phaeton <phaeton@iinet.net.au>= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering J Message-ID: <43f9666b$0$30773$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>   Dave Froble wrote: > 7 > What seems the best solution to me is a utility that:  > K > 1) Could re-set the number to 0 or 1, depending upon what's stored, last   > used, or next to use.  > # > 2) Could set the rollover number.  > J > Every night at midnight, or whenever one wanted to, set the job numbers J > to start at 1.  As long as the range selected is large enough, ever job J > in a day would have a unique number.  That is what the OP wanted, right?  < 	Great idea, INHO. Maybe a new switch should be added to theC 	$SET ENTRY command. My hunch is that this might not be too hard to 0 	implement, although I have no idea. Guy Peleg ?H                                                           Cheers,  Csaba  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- F   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  phaeton at iinet dot net dot auE --------------------------------------------------------------------- <     EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:  ;   The trouble with life is, that you're halfway throught it 8   before you realise that it's a "do it yourself" thing.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2006 23:39:03 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>= Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Batch/Print Job Numbering C Message-ID: <1140421143.565250.178860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > AEF wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > >  > >>AEF wrote: > >> > >>>David J Dachtera wrote: > >>> & > >>>>Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > >>>>g > >>>>>In article <43F6A30C.BCF5B109@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > > 	 > > [...]  > >  > >>>>If you can, try this:  > >>>>) > >>>>$ SUBMIT/qualifier(s) filespec/HOLD * > >>>>$ JENTRY = F$FAO( "!7ZL", '$ENTRY' )G > >>>>$ SET ENTRY '$ENTRY'/LOG=[ddcu:<dir>]filename_'JENTRY'.LOG/NOHOLD  > >>>>K > >>>>That will produce fewer logs to sift through since you can then get a K > >>>>listing of every entry number used for that job in ascending order by  > >>>>entry number.  > >>>>I > >>>>Personally, though, I agree with Michael: if the job is retained on M > >>>>error, that entry number won't be re-used so long as that queue remains  > >>>>retained.  > >>> J > >>>That's not his problem. Imagine his queue numbers run from 1 to 1000.K > >>>His system runs 3000 jobs one day. Now he has found that entry 442 has J > >>>been retained on error. Now which of the 3 log files that contain 442L > >>>is the one that was retained in the queue??? Even though job 442 may beJ > >>>reatined in the queue, that same number may have been used earlier in
 > >>>the day.  > >>6 > >>How many times has that entry number been re-used? > >  > > H > > Well, in this case, 3. But apparently it is too much. I think even aI > > low number is too much because you may have to do it many times. It's E > > like putting your return address on an envelope by hand. A former J > > housemate once made fun of pre-printed address labes as "Gee, how lazyK > > can you be?" Well, he didn't pay many bills himself. If he had to do it = > > a dozen times a month or more I think he'd get the point.  > >  > >  > >>If the job's entry number: > >>= > >>$ enbr = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","AFTER_TIME",,"THIS_JOB")  > >>H > >>...is output to the log file, that will help naarow it down, but not > >>pin-point the target log.  > >  > > 0 > > Again, he wants it narrowed down completely. > >  > > L > >>Interesting thing about /RETAIN: if a job is retained, even when a queueL > >>is set /RETAIN=ALWAYS, /DELETE of the log file doesn't take effect until# > >>the entry is itself is DELETEd.  > >  > > G > > Well, that's good, no? I'm sure you'd complain if the log file were  > > deleted upon completion! > >  > > K > >>So, one other possible solution might be to SET the QUEUE /RETAIN=ERROR I > >>and specify a "null" queue as the default print destination for batch I > >>logs, then SUBMIT the jobs using /NOKEEP explicitly (to over-ride any K > >>defaults due to symbols, etc.). That way, the only batch logs that will L > >>remain on disk are those where the entry was retained due to the queue's > >>current SETtings.  > >>I > >>That narrows it down even further. SHOW ENTRY/FULL or the appropriate K > >>F$GETQUI() calls to automate the task for an entry would then be useful J > >>to get down even closer to the target log using the completion time of2 > >>the job and the RDTs of the log files on disk. > >>J > >>It would be most helpful, of course, if the queue manager would updateK > >>the entry with the actual target filespec for the log file. Then again,  > >  > > ; > > Yes, that would indeed be nice, at least for this case.  > >  > > L > >>given that there does not seem to be a way to retrieve that outside of aH > >>great deal of VMS "black magic", that may not even be possible right > >  > > C > > Well, get the job_pid with f$getqui, make a temp file from show G > > dev/files, and search the temp file for the pid -- is that a lot of H > > black magic? (It *is* a somewhat roundabout way of doing things, butC > > sometimes you have no choice -- as in calculating the number of D > > combinations of n things taken r at a time. This is described inK > > probability field as follows: If you can't count the sheep, count their I > > legs and divide by four.) The macro that achieves the same result may K > > be, but it's already written and just has to be hunted down in archives  > > of this ng.  > >  > > < > >>now. It would likely require considerable enhancement to > >>LOGINOUT.EXE(?). > >  > > K > > Why doesn't he just add some kind of index or timestamp to the log-file 2 > > name? That seems like the best solution to me. > >  > > AEF  > >  > 7 > What seems the best solution to me is a utility that:  > J > 1) Could re-set the number to 0 or 1, depending upon what's stored, last > used, or next to use.  > # > 2) Could set the rollover number.  > I > Every night at midnight, or whenever one wanted to, set the job numbers I > to start at 1.  As long as the range selected is large enough, ever job J > in a day would have a unique number.  That is what the OP wanted, right?  C Yes, but he wanted this as a solution to a problem that has another G immediate solution: Add an index number or time stamp to the file name,  as in   , $ INDEX = F$CVTIME("",,"TIME") - punctuation+ $ SUBMIT EXCITING.COM /LOG=EXCITING-'INDEX'   F but for some reason either he didn't see this solution or I don't knowE what. The least the OP could do is tell us why *this* solution is not F going to work for him. ;-)  Well, maybe it's some third-party softwareE that submits these jobs and he doesn't want to or can't muck with it.     6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450   AEF    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.102 ************************  ƨnX<ygwzP~=xHf4;oROj}io8QPCV"8y>+#
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