1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 22 Feb 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 105       Contents:" Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX"" Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX"P Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with a foot in both caP Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with a foot in both caP Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with a foot in both ca4 Re: Andrew's back, was: Re: Gartner wakes up company% Andrew, why not Symantec buy OpenVMS? + ARC console will not start on AS1000A 5/400 / Re: ARC console will not start on AS1000A 5/400 5 Re: Availability Manager/DECamds product announcement 5 Re: Availability Manager/DECamds product announcement 5 Re: Availability Manager/DECamds product announcement  Re: BACKUP$MANAGER Re: BACKUP$MANAGER Re: Boy, do I like VMS humor!  error executing DCL/EXE on CSWS  Re: F$GETDVI suggestions Re: F$GETDVI suggestions Re: F$GETDVI suggestions Re: F$GETDVI suggestions Re: F$GETDVI suggestions& Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses)& Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses)& Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses)& Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses)& Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses)& Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses)& Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses)= Re: Gartner wakes up company executives to X86-64 scalability = Re: Gartner wakes up company executives to X86-64 scalability = Re: Gartner wakes up company executives to X86-64 scalability , Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator" Re: Inline FTP command from a .CMD Re: is this a DECTERM ?  Re: is this a DECTERM ?  Re: is this a DECTERM ? 6 Re: LD devices in shadowsets on fault tolerant cluster" Re: More VMS & DCL wish list items Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile  Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile  Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile  Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile  Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile ( Re: OpenBSD says secure levels "useless", Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs, Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs- Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 RE: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! : Re: SRMFLASH update on Alpha4100 quad 5/533 taking forever: Re: SRMFLASH update on Alpha4100 quad 5/533 taking forever: Re: SRMFLASH update on Alpha4100 quad 5/533 taking foreverC Re: Wanted:  Beta testers for poor man/woman's DEFRAGMENTATION tool - Re: What is going on with VAX prices on ebay?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:06:51 +0800 ) From: Tim Sneddon <tesneddon@bigpond.com> + Subject: Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" = Message-ID: <43fbac59$0$27795$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>    Tom Linden wrote:    [...snip...]  F > language integration, but some 15 years later, and ironically HP hadF > given up support for tools like SDL.  Note that it is only in recent5 > years that IBM has emphasized LE for the mainframe.   D Every now and again you mention that SDL support has been dropped. IF assume you are talking about the Structure Definition Language? If so,D the product is certainly alive and well. I don't believe that it wasC ever officially supported, but I talk reasonably regularly with the A guy that maintains the current incantation and it certainly isn't B going away, in fact new features are being added. You can downloadE the previous PL/I version (with source) or the new (V2.? C++) version E (binary only) from the Freeware website. The next release should even F feature a copy of my SDLXSD backend (recently translated to Pascal by B the current SDL maintainer) as an example of how to write a custom backend.  
 Regards, Tim. . *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***X *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:24:29 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: "A Historical Look at the VAX" * Message-ID: <1IRKf.8571$yw4.6515@trnddc05>   Bill Todd wrote: > Neil Rieck wrote:  >  > ...  > 0 >  wasn't support for Indexed-RMS built into VMS > ! >> specifically to support COBOL?  >  > H > No:  while native support for RMS indexed files did not ship with VMS C > V1.0 (RMS-11 indexed support in compatibility mode was used as a  G > substitute), that was only because it could not be completed in time.  > 0 >  (If memory serves, it was an optional layered >  >> product in earlier OSs) >  > K > I'm pretty sure that indexed-file support was standard across all RMS-11  K > releases (though the RMS emulator developed much later for RT-11 may not  = > have included it).  I do know that by the time I wrote the  E > memory-resident library implementations it was included in them as   > standard.   D At least on RSTS/E, RMS-11 had always included indexed files for allD versions that I ever used (I specifically remember using RMS-11 V2.0C and at least one earlier version.  V1.8 sticks in my mind, but that @ might have been the BP2 version number), but RMS-11 itself was aA layered product.  It was later bundled in the base OS license and D included on the RSTS/E OS distribution tapes, I think about the timeB RSTS/E V9.0 was released.  I still have the release notes for V9.0@ through V10.1 at home, so I could look it up if anyone cares.  I. think SORT-11 was bundled in at the same time.   > H > But I'm less sure about RMS-20:  where's Seth Cohen when you need him D > (perhaps a visit to trailing-edge could turn up that information)? > I > RMS was designed by Ed Marison, who had previously worked with indexed  G > file support for MUMPS - and that's where a great deal of the design  J > came from (though majorly altered).  Without indexed files, there would D > have been relatively little need for anything beyond what already H > existed in FCS-11 (and DATATRIEVE - which turned out to be one of the G > most prolific users of RMS indexed files - might never have existed).  >   D I didn't use RSX very much, but I think RMS-11 was also originally aB layered product.  I don't know if it was later bundled with the OSC license or included on the tapes.  (Presumably because there was no @ license manager like on VMS, they usually didn't ship separatelyE licensed layered products on the OS distribution tapes.)  Anyway, the F base RSX included FCS, which was compatible with RMS sequential files,C but to get indexed files, you needed the RMS-11 layered product.  I D think FCS also included relative file support, but I didn't use that? often enough to remember for sure.  (On both RSTS/E and RSX, it B might not be installed even if the license was bundled, because it@ took up a fair amount of memory which was a precious resource in( those days, at lease on 18-bit systems.)  I > The part of RMS indexed files (everywhere, not just on VMS) that *was*  J > specifically tailored for COBOL semantics was the order-preservation of J > duplicate key values in alternate indexes (and possibly alternate index F > support as a whole, since most other uses did not require multi-key I > capability).  Then again, competition with DG's INFOS and Prime's KSAM  I > was considered important at the time, and just another single-key ISAM  E > might not have been considered adequate even without the desire to  * > support COBOL alternate-index semantics. >  > - bill     --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 03:29:57 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>Y Subject: Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with a foot in both ca ) Message-ID: <VUQKf.9878$GQ.2623@trnddc03>    Dave Weatherall wrote:5 > On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 04:31:44 UTC, "Craig A. Berry"  ( > <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote: >  > < >>In article <eQuJf.47266$T35.818696@news20.bellglobal.com>,7 >> "Peter Weaver" <newsonly@weaverconsulting.ca> wrote:  >> >>5 >>>"Allan B." <hp.bowman@gmail.com> wrote in message  > >>>news:1140199114.050849.8720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>> K >>>>Being an OpenVMS user and a frequent user of the ITRC forums, I can say E >>>>that they have not alienated me.  As far as the posting from Mark F >>>>Daniel that was removed, I completely agree with that decision.  IJ >>>>don't remember that exact wording he used, but the way the informationK >>>>was presented I'm sure was found to be offensive by many people (myself  >>>>including).  >>G >>Notice that he never actually says what about it he found offensive.   >  > G > Well I've just re-read Mark's post here and can't for the life of me  H > see anything offensive. It's plain as day that it's not commercial. I F > won't express the thought that went thro' my head when I read Allen  > B's comments...  >   F I think it might be something about the name "soyMAIL", though I can't? figure it out.  Maybe it's a pun and you have to be Australian?   B Soy Mail ... Soy Sauce ... Soy beans ... Java Beans ... Fava BeansB (and Chianti?) ... Green Beans ... Green Mail ...  Pinto Beans (itB explodes when you hit it?) ... Black Beans  ...  Black Mail (Maybe* it is hitting some anti-terrorist filter?)  B It clearly isn't commercial, it doesn't re-implement an HP productD (free competition depriving them of revenue?), if it isn't the name,D then either something triggered a Spam filter and they are too dense@ or too impolite or too arrogant to explain, so Mark can repost a? slightly altered version that will get through, or someone read 1 something into the name that clearly isn't there.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:08:01 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with a foot in both ca / Message-ID: <-vidncAm58D7YmbeRVn-vg@libcom.com>    John Santos wrote:   > H > I think it might be something about the name "soyMAIL", though I can'tA > figure it out.  Maybe it's a pun and you have to be Australian?   	 Hmmm.....   1 (S)on (O)f (Y)ahmail maybe?  Wasn't that unclear.   6 Always good to see you're still pushing the bits John.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 06:25:10 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>Y Subject: Re: A gripe just posted to HP's VMS ITRC forum (for those with a foot in both ca * Message-ID: <atTKf.8581$yw4.5012@trnddc05>   Dave Froble wrote: > John Santos wrote: >  >>I >> I think it might be something about the name "soyMAIL", though I can't B >> figure it out.  Maybe it's a pun and you have to be Australian? >  >  > Hmmm.....  > 3 > (S)on (O)f (Y)ahmail maybe?  Wasn't that unclear.  > 8 > Always good to see you're still pushing the bits John. >   ; Oh, yeah, that part was clear.  But what's wrong with that? ? A militant feminist wants it to be "(D)aughter (o)f (Y)ahmail?" 9 Or "(C)hild (o)f (Y)ahmail?"  A religious person finds if ; offensive because they think it's a reference to Jesus (Son : of Yahweh?)  This seems like a real stretch to me, but who9 knows what someone might find offensive.  A lot more of a ; stretch than calling "French fries" "freedom fries" because  you're mad at France.   @ If there is something wrong with the name "Yahmail", well that's@ been around for years, and the new version gets rid of the name.   Still mystified...   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:36:52 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: Andrew's back, was: Re: Gartner wakes up company 9 Message-ID: <TeidnSnu9b5VLGbenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote:C >>Somehow I think that offers to port Veritas Cluster Server or our H >>Cluster Filesystem to OpenVMS might not get a huge vote of thanks from >>the bulk of this newsgroup.  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew >  > H > why would it be needed?  They tried to copy vms cluster technology butF > could not fully ... nothing will ever beat OpenVMS in clustering ... > why G > would anyone want to buy half of what they already fully have? it can " > not even beat tru64 truclusters! >   H Come on boob, give him a break.  He just stated the obvious.  Can't you H grant Andy boy a short welcome back before we start sticking needles in 
 him again?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 11:24:45 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com . Subject: Andrew, why not Symantec buy OpenVMS?C Message-ID: <1140549885.265232.175910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E and bring a virus free, hack free environment to a world starving for C security and reliability since HP obviously can't figure out how to  do it?  G They tried buying some bits and pieces, why not get the whole solution, = and port it to the x86 boat anchor the world is stuck on, and   	 DOMINATE?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:05:05 -0600  From: don.rogstad@dalsemi.com 4 Subject: ARC console will not start on AS1000A 5/4001 Message-ID: <06022118050529@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   / Okay, all you VMS gurus, here's one for you.      H What would keep an AlphaServer 1000A 5/400 from being able to enter intoG the ARC console?   Would the SWXCR Raid controller keep the ARC console I from starting if the Raid Controller had a bad disk in a Raid 5 disk set?   
 Situation:E AlphaServer running OpenVMS V7.3-1 forever (over a year) without any  E problems.  Then lost power for longer than the UPS could handle.  So  H the AlphaServer went down.   One of the disk drives in the RAID set was G beginning to make some noise, so I knew it was on the way to being non- 
 functional.     J Power was restored and sure enough, the first SCSI disk (disk 0 on SCSI 0)H was bad and would not start.   No problem, just jump to ARC console and = run the SWXCRMGR utility to fix.   But now ran into problems:   @ 1) From power off, system will boot to SRM without any problems.E 2) From SRM prompt, SHOW DEVICE will not show the SWXCR and RAID sets +     if bad disk is in StorageWorks cabinet. H 3) Remove bad disk from StorageWorks and SHOW DEVICE show all RAID sets.J 4) Type ARC at SRM prompt, get two messages, one about loading ARC consoleJ     and the other about being loaded, but does not change to GUI interface2     I have to power down the AlphaServer to reset.G 5) Booted firmware CD (6.2, I think) and verified firmware.  Also tried J     reloading firmware with same results (firmware loads successfully, but"     ARC console will not come up).8 6) Booting OpenVMS, the RAID controller device is there:  F Disk OMEGA$DRMA0:, device type SWXCR, is online, file-oriented device,(     shareable, error logging is enabled.  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                  0 O     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] O     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W O     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512   I    But none of the RAID sets are configured and IO AUTOCONFIGURE does not     add them.    
 Questions:G 1) How does one get to ARC console if neither ARC or ALPHABIOS commands H    start it up.   If I change OS_TYPE to NT and it hangs, can I get back    to SRM console?  K 2) Is there any other way to run the SWXCRMGR or RCUxxx utilities from SRM?   I 3) If I remove the RAID controller to test if I can get into ARC, will it      loose the configuration?  I 4) If the RAID controller does loose the configuration, can I restore it  K    without loosing the data on the RAID sets?  If I remember correctly, if  ;    you create a new RAID set, it wants to format the disks.   L I have run out of things to *safely* try.  Let me know if you need any other information.   Thanks,  Don Rogstad    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:35:31 -0500 , From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com>8 Subject: Re: ARC console will not start on AS1000A 5/400= Message-ID: <43fbc0cf$0$14378$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>   L I'd pull all the options and then run the Windows NT ECU. After, install theF raid card and do your thing. Then switch back to SRM and again run the OpenVMS ECU.    * <don.rogstad@dalsemi.com> wrote in message+ news:06022118050529@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com... . > Okay, all you VMS gurus, here's one for you. > J > What would keep an AlphaServer 1000A 5/400 from being able to enter intoI > the ARC console?   Would the SWXCR Raid controller keep the ARC console K > from starting if the Raid Controller had a bad disk in a Raid 5 disk set?  >  > Situation:F > AlphaServer running OpenVMS V7.3-1 forever (over a year) without anyF > problems.  Then lost power for longer than the UPS could handle.  SoI > the AlphaServer went down.   One of the disk drives in the RAID set was I > beginning to make some noise, so I knew it was on the way to being non- 
 > functional.  > L > Power was restored and sure enough, the first SCSI disk (disk 0 on SCSI 0)I > was bad and would not start.   No problem, just jump to ARC console and ? > run the SWXCRMGR utility to fix.   But now ran into problems:  > B > 1) From power off, system will boot to SRM without any problems.G > 2) From SRM prompt, SHOW DEVICE will not show the SWXCR and RAID sets - >     if bad disk is in StorageWorks cabinet. J > 3) Remove bad disk from StorageWorks and SHOW DEVICE show all RAID sets.L > 4) Type ARC at SRM prompt, get two messages, one about loading ARC consoleL >     and the other about being loaded, but does not change to GUI interface4 >     I have to power down the AlphaServer to reset.I > 5) Booted firmware CD (6.2, I think) and verified firmware.  Also tried L >     reloading firmware with same results (firmware loads successfully, but$ >     ARC console will not come up).: > 6) Booting OpenVMS, the RAID controller device is there: > H > Disk OMEGA$DRMA0:, device type SWXCR, is online, file-oriented device,* >     shareable, error logging is enabled. > > >     Error count                    0    Operations completed 0 3 >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]2 >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W = >     Reference count                0    Default buffer size  512  > K >    But none of the RAID sets are configured and IO AUTOCONFIGURE does not  >    add them. >  >  > Questions:I > 1) How does one get to ARC console if neither ARC or ALPHABIOS commands J >    start it up.   If I change OS_TYPE to NT and it hangs, can I get back >    to SRM console? > H > 2) Is there any other way to run the SWXCRMGR or RCUxxx utilities from SRM? > K > 3) If I remove the RAID controller to test if I can get into ARC, will it  >     loose the configuration? > J > 4) If the RAID controller does loose the configuration, can I restore itL >    without loosing the data on the RAID sets?  If I remember correctly, if= >    you create a new RAID set, it wants to format the disks.  > H > I have run out of things to *safely* try.  Let me know if you need any other  > information. > 	 > Thanks, 
 > Don Rogstad     . *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***X *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 21:33:03 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: Availability Manager/DECamds product announcement, Message-ID: <43fb870f$1@news.langstoeger.at>  e In article <KAHKf.3395$zT3.1384@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com> writes: M >> What I'd really like is AMDS on Alpha/Itanium V8.2+.  AM does not have the J >> ability to show multiple groups on the screen at one time.  Even if it  >> did, J >> it is too graphically intensive to run over our WAN.  I have to monitor6 >> multiple clusters worldwide, and AM doesn't cut it. > L >What would acceptable network performance be?  I have run AM over DSL from H >home (768Kbps download, 128Kbps upload), so that is my reference point.  G I occasionally ran AM over DSL (2048/512 or 1024/384) as well, but with C X11 over SSH2 tunnel, it doesn't run, only crawl. But for me, it is + acceptable, I've only 2 systems at home ;-)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:45:21 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> > Subject: Re: Availability Manager/DECamds product announcement8 Message-ID: <RRLKf.23224$j53.13382@twister.nyroc.rr.com>  ; "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com> wrote in message , news:KAHKf.3395$zT3.1384@news.cpqcorp.net... > Jeff,  > J > > What I'd really like is AMDS on Alpha/Itanium V8.2+.  AM does not have the J > > ability to show multiple groups on the screen at one time.  Even if it > > did,K > > it is too graphically intensive to run over our WAN.  I have to monitor 7 > > multiple clusters worldwide, and AM doesn't cut it.  > L > What would acceptable network performance be?  I have run AM over DSL fromI > home (768Kbps download, 128Kbps upload), so that is my reference point.   D We have shared circuits that range from 128kbs through 768kbs.  AMDS performance is fine.   >  > Barry  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:37:21 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>> Subject: Re: Availability Manager/DECamds product announcement+ Message-ID: <43FBCE61.A17ABAE0@comcast.net>    Barry Kierstein wrote: >  > Jeff,  > N > > What I'd really like is AMDS on Alpha/Itanium V8.2+.  AM does not have theJ > > ability to show multiple groups on the screen at one time.  Even if it > > did,K > > it is too graphically intensive to run over our WAN.  I have to monitor 7 > > multiple clusters worldwide, and AM doesn't cut it.  > L > What would acceptable network performance be?  I have run AM over DSL fromI > home (768Kbps download, 128Kbps upload), so that is my reference point.   G ...which is fine so long as the company end meets or exceeds that spec. G I recall a couple of small-ish site where, last I heard, their internet  links were 144Kbit SDSL.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:20:26 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: BACKUP$MANAGER + Message-ID: <43FBD87A.895A44C8@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Guy Peleg wrote:I > > $ SHOW QUEUE/SUMMARY was the first thing I learn yesterday, I was not $ > > aware of the /SUMMARY qualifier. > J > They let you play with DCL without you knowing the full DCLTABLES.EXE byM > heart ? Jeez, they're letting VMS standards go down :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  >  > > 7 > > The second thing related to weather forecasting ;-)  > 2 > So can we expect SHOW WEATHER/FULL for VMS 8.3 ?  ! Let's not forget REQUEST/PIZZA...   E Does anyone remember what comes on a standard DECpizza (what would be ( the default qualifiers/keywords/values)?  H Wouldn't SET WEATHER/PERMANENT be a hoot? ;-) (Fool everyone - use it as3 a CLI interface to the data center environmentals!)    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 06:32:52 +0200 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com>  Subject: Re: BACKUP$MANAGER * Message-ID: <43fbe977@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43FBB366.FD80D12C@teksavvy.com... > Guy Peleg wrote:I > > $ SHOW QUEUE/SUMMARY was the first thing I learn yesterday, I was not $ > > aware of the /SUMMARY qualifier. > J > They let you play with DCL without you knowing the full DCLTABLES.EXE byI > heart ? Jeez, they're letting VMS standards go down :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  :-)  >  > > 7 > > The second thing related to weather forecasting ;-)  > 2 > So can we expect SHOW WEATHER/FULL for VMS 8.3 ?   ;-)   > V8.3 will be able to predict the weather, changing the weather, will require a major realease, maybe 9.0 ;-)   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 13:07:36 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: Boy, do I like VMS humor!C Message-ID: <1140556056.472141.324420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 AEF wrote: [...] 7 > I'll post more if I think of any more examples later.  >  > AEF      Here's another:    from  D Installing and Using the VT420 Video Terminal (North American Model)  . p. 142 (13 Resetting and Testing the Terminal)  ) Name                   Mnemonic  Sequence   & Hard terminal reset    RIS       ESC c0                                  Not recommended     AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 20:59:17 -0800' From: "ababeel" <farooq.omar@gmail.com> ( Subject: error executing DCL/EXE on CSWSC Message-ID: <1140584357.062119.275700@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E We have installed CSWS (based on Apache 2.1) on an Alpha 8.2. The web 7 server has installed succesfully, we can see the manual D (http://hostname/manual etc) but we are not able execute any DCL/EXED from the cgi-bin directory. http://hostname/cgi-bin/test-cgi-vms.com fails. Any help appreciated... 	 Thanks...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:06:50 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: F$GETDVI suggestions , Message-ID: <43FB9D03.DE5DFE40@teksavvy.com>   Rob Brooks wrote: M > Cannot be done.  I've looked into it, and that state is not stored anywhere I > in memory.  Whether or not a rebuild is needed can *only* be determined J > by looking at information stored on the volume itself.  $GETDVI does notG > do any I/O, and any attempt to issue I/O from $GETDVI will not happen  > any time soon.  C That is terrible. It shows serious flaws in the core design of VMS. D Whoevere was responsible for this design should be punished by being4 sent to work for Sun or worse, Microsoft :-) :-) :-)  G If GETDVI can't do it, there should then be some utility that can do it $ and return a status in a dcl symbol.   $CHECK_REBUILD $2$dka200: 5 $IF $STATUS .ne. 1 then SET VOLUME/REBUILD $4$dka200:    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 06 20:34:26 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) ! Subject: Re: F$GETDVI suggestions ! Message-ID: <akDUfSQ9Z8s7@wvnvms>   \ In article <43FB9D03.DE5DFE40@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Rob Brooks wrote: N >> Cannot be done.  I've looked into it, and that state is not stored anywhereJ >> in memory.  Whether or not a rebuild is needed can *only* be determinedK >> by looking at information stored on the volume itself.  $GETDVI does not H >> do any I/O, and any attempt to issue I/O from $GETDVI will not happen >> any time soon.  > E > That is terrible. It shows serious flaws in the core design of VMS. F > Whoevere was responsible for this design should be punished by being6 > sent to work for Sun or worse, Microsoft :-) :-) :-) > I > If GETDVI can't do it, there should then be some utility that can do it & > and return a status in a dcl symbol. >  > $CHECK_REBUILD $2$dka200: 7 > $IF $STATUS .ne. 1 then SET VOLUME/REBUILD $4$dka200:   G Here is some relevant Macro code from a larger program which one of the C high school students who used to work here wrote in 1983.  It still C works with VAX 7.3.  This actually looks at the quota dirty bit.  I D don't know off hand the correct bit to determine if the volume needsD rebuilt, but I would guess either SCB$M_MAPDIRTY2 or SCB$M_MAPDIRTY./ The larger program manually rebuilds QUOTA.SYS.      George Cook  WVNET H ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 	.title	Begin  ;  ;	WVNET VAX 11/780 QUOTA V1.0  ; 6 ;	Author: Michael A. Bajura, Creation date: 1-Feb-1983 ;  ;	Modifications: ;		24-Jul-1984/MAB  ;			Internal code documentation. ; J ;------------------------------------------------------------------------- ; 1 ;	Module to get command input and store disk name 2 ;	in global desc DISK.  If a rebuild is not needed1 ;	it will not be performed unless there is an "F"  ;	present in the command input.  ;  	.library	'sys$share:lib.mlb'  	$fiddef 	$fabdef 	$ssdef  	$iodef  	$fibdef 	$scbdef  , ;	File information blocks to read BITMAP.SYS   Fib:	.long	fib$k_length 
 	.long	fibloc  Fibloc:	.blkb	fib$k_length  " ;	Buffer for first block of bitmap   Buffer:	.blkb	512    ;	Descriptor to access bitmap    Bitmap:	.ascid	|BITMAP.SYS;1|    ;	IOSB  
 Iosb:	.blkw	4    ;	Prompt for extra input   Prompt:	.ascid	|Disk: |    ;	Buffer for command input   Commdesc:.long	80  	.long	comm  Comm:	.blkb	80 msgvec:	.word	2,0  	.long	quota_ok 
 	.word	0,0 	.entry	Begin,^m<>  - ;	First call lib$get_foreign for command line   ) 	Pushab	commdesc	; Word for return length ' 	Pushab	prompt		; Descriptor for prompt   	Pushab	commdesc	; Return buffer 	Calls	#03,G^lib$get_foreign
 	jsb	check_r0   . ;	Find the disk in the command input and place4 ;	the disk name in the global string descriptor DISK    	movzwl	commdesc,r0	; Get length" 	bneq	10$		; If null input,  abort 	$exit_s	code=#ss$_abort/ 10$:	movb	#^a| |,comm[r0]	; || blank to command  	incl	r0		; Add length$ 	movw	r0,commdesc	; Store new length# 	locc	#^a| |,r0,comm	; Locate blank % 	subl2	#comm,r1	; R1 = length of disk 1 	movab	comm,disk+04	; Set disk loc in global desc # 	movw	r1,disk		; set length in disk / 	subw2	disk,commdesc	; New length of comm -disk  	decw	commdesc	; - extra blank* 	addl2	disk,commdesc+04; New loc in buffer   ;	Assign channel to disk    	$assign_s chan=chan,devnam=disk
 	jsb	check_r0   % ;	Access bitmap and read first block.   0 	clrl	fibloc+fib$l_acctl	; Clear accounting area8 	movw	#fid$c_mfd,fibloc+fib$w_did_num ; Directory is MFD% 	movw	#fid$c_mfd,fibloc+fib$w_did_seq / 	movzbw	#01,fibloc+fib$w_did_rvn	; Set RVN to 1  	$qiow_s	chan=chan,-	; Channel. 		func=#<io$_access!io$m_access>,- ; Open file  		iosb=iosb,-	; I/O status block
 		p1=fib,- 		p2=#bitmap	; File name
 	jsb	check_r0  	movzwl	iosb,r0 
 	jsb	check_r0  	$qiow_s	chan=chan,- 		func=#io$_readvblk,-
 		iosb=iosb,- % 		p1=buffer,-	; Buffer for 1st record  		p2=#512,-	; Size of buffer 		p3=#01		; First block 
 	jsb	check_r0 ) 	movzwl	iosb,r0		; Check I/O status block 
 	jsb	check_r0    ;	Deaccess file    	$qiow_s	chan=chan,- 		func=#io$_deaccess,-
 		iosb=iosb,-  		p1=fib
 	jsb	check_r0  	movzwl	iosb,r0 
 	jsb	check_r0     ;	Find out if we need to rebuild  + 	bitl	#scb$m_quodirty2,buffer+scb$l_status2  			; Test quota dirty bit  	bneq	dirty		; Quota is dirty . 	locc	#^a|F|,commdesc,@commdesc+04	; F = force 	bneq	dirty		; Force rebuild 	$putmsg_s	msgvec=msgvec! Done:	$exit_s	code=r0	; Return ok   # ;	Store disk as default name in fab D ;*************** Dirty status would be returned here ***************3 Dirty:	movl	disk+04,indexf+fab$l_dna ; default addr * 	movb	disk,indexf+fab$b_dns	; default size   ;	Open index file    	$open	fab=indexf 
 	jsb	check_r0  	$connect rab=indexr
 	jsb	check_r0  	ret  ) ;	Routine to check R0 for error and abort   	 Check_r0:  	blbc	r0,10$ 	rsb 10$:	$exit_s	code=r0 	.end   D --------------------------------------------------------------------         .title  quotamsg ! # !       WVNET VAX 11/780 QUOTA V1.0  ! < !       Author: Michael A. Bajura, Creation date: 1-Feb-1983 !  !       Modifications: !               24-Jul-1984/MAB 4 !                       Internal code documentation.L !--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ! * !       Messages for quota rebuild program; !       This must be compiled with the message compiler and % !       linked with the main program.  ! %         .fac    quota,1/prefix=quota_ O         over    <UIC [!OW,!OW] has used !ZL out of !ZL blocks on disk !AS>/info K         used    <UIC [!OW,!OW] has used !ZL blocks on disk !AS>/infor/fao=4 ,         upd     < [!OW,!OW] !ZL>/fao=3/infor)         ok      <Quota file is ok.>/infor I         hash    <Hash statistics: total: !ZL, duplicates !ZL>/fao=2/infor 2         add     <Uic: !XL Blocks: !ZL>/infor/fao=2         .end   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:57:54 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>! Subject: Re: F$GETDVI suggestions + Message-ID: <43FBD332.FB4329B3@comcast.net>    Rob Brooks wrote:  > 1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: 3 > >  On can get the allocation class with ALLOCLASS  > I > > But can one get the actual device name without the allocation class ?  > > H > > eg: for device $2$dka200 , I can get "2" with ALLOCLASS. But can any$ > > item code give me "DKA200" ????? > >  > > If not, there should be. >  > $ sho dev dka0 > R > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntR >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cnt0 > $1$DKA0:      (CUEBID)  Online               01 > $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "dka0", "devnam" )  > _DKA0:5 > $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "dka0", "fulldevnam" )  > _$1$DKA0: 4 > $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "dka0", "alldevnam" ) > _$1$DKA0:    Hey - forgot about DEVNAM.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:47:13 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: F$GETDVI suggestions , Message-ID: <43FBDEAA.2E5B7B06@teksavvy.com>   Rob Brooks wrote: 1 > $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "dka0", "devnam" )  > _DKA0:5 > $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "dka0", "fulldevnam" )  > _$1$DKA0: 4 > $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "dka0", "alldevnam" ) > _$1$DKA0:    On VAX VMS 7.2:   2 $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "$4$dia1", "devnam" )	 _$4$DIA1: 8 $ $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "$4$dia1", "fulldevnam" )	 _$4$DIA1: 6 $ $ write sys$output f$getdvi( "$4$dia1","alldevnam" )	 _$4$DIA1:     I So "DEVNAM" doesn't work since your solution is not platform independant.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 22:04:21 -0800, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de>! Subject: Re: F$GETDVI suggestions B Message-ID: <1140588261.013732.91390@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  F We used this DCL codesnippet since many years to determine the rebuild status during disk mount:   D $   Open/Read/Error=CheckRebuild$99 'InLun 'Disk':[000000]Bitmap.SysF $   Read/Error=CheckRebuild$99 'InLun Scb       ! read storage control block - $   Close/Error=CheckRebuild$99/NoLog 'InLun' E $   Bits = F$cvui(28*8+1,2,scb)      ! bits SCB$V_MAPALLC2, FILALLOC2  $   If Bits .Ne. 0 $   Then $!     rebuild neccessary 	 $   Endif   
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:17:29 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)/ Subject: Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses) $ Message-ID: <dtfsgp$202$1@online.de>  H In article <ogP6DimXDQ6Q@cuebid.zko.hp.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:    . > $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "boot_device" ) > _$1$DGA13:  I What does it return---what the machine booted from, or what is stored in  H the console?  I suspect the former, but the latter (which could also be % a list) might be interesting as well.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 15:35:02 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)/ Subject: Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses) , Message-ID: <kNOq0SIoUoF6@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  R helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:3 > brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:   > / >> $ write sys$output f$getsyi( "boot_device" ) 
 >> _$1$DGA13:  > K > What does it return---what the machine booted from, or what is stored in  J > the console?  I suspect the former, but the latter (which could also be ' > a list) might be interesting as well.   K Specifically, we grab the UCB address pointed to by the cell SYS$AR_BOOTUCB J and call IOC_STD$CVT_DEVNAM, and return the string that's returned by that formatting routine.   O The device string that's returned by the console callback routine SYS$GETENV is H in a different format, as you know.  Attempting to turn that string intoJ a standard VMS device name would be a real mess in the context of $GETSYI,O as I'd have to take into account all the potential local device naming schemes.   L The only oddity in the method I've chosen is that for a satellite that bootsM via MOP (or, presumably BOOTP for I64 -- I've not tried that yet), the device L string returned by $GETSYI is actually the disk from which it boots, not theC ethernet device that was named in the console variable bootdef_dev.    --    L Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:32:30 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses) 9 Message-ID: <TeidnS7u9b5bLWbenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rob Brooks wrote: + > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >  > H >>I'm thinking a partial reason why some wishlist items don't happen is I >>because the request asks for them to happen in a place where they're a   >>pain in the ass. >  > I > Not always; I had a request to add an item code to $GETDVI that returns  > the name of the boot device.  @ You miss the point.  Take for example JF's request for the flag H indicating a volume needed to be rebuilt.  He asked for it in something F that is intended to return data from memory resident data structures, I and you indicated it would not happen since GETDVI does no, and will not   do, any I/O.  G My point is, if he just asked for some way to get the information, you  H would have addressed the request in a different manner.  Since he asked 6 for it in the wrong place, your response was 'no way'.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:01:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses) , Message-ID: <43FBB7E0.E7984897@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:H > My point is, if he just asked for some way to get the information, youI > would have addressed the request in a different manner.  Since he asked 8 > for it in the wrong place, your response was 'no way'.    G Since GETSYI is already setup to fetch information from others nodes in J the cluster, I figured it would be a logical service to get what I needed.  H Mr Brooks provided a reasonable explanation of why it couldn't/shouldn'tQ be done with that system service. I didn't see it as a "no way" type of response.   H If the request has value, then VMS engineers may find a different way toG implement it.  If not, it will just go into the big "silly JF requests"  bin that VMS engineers have.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:18:17 +1100 $ From: Phaeton <phaeton@iinet.net.au>/ Subject: Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses) J Message-ID: <43fbc9e8$0$12230$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>   JF Mezei wrote:   J > If the request has value, then VMS engineers may find a different way toI > implement it.  If not, it will just go into the big "silly JF requests"  > bin that VMS engineers have.  C 	I imagine that bin is HUGE :-) And it needs regular emptying, too. D 	Big trucks line up to the separate building, where the giant bin is= 	kept, and using a special downloading tool extract all those B 	accumulated requests. Then they have to deliver them to a specialC 	dumping ground, where security is very tight, just like at nuclear E 	waste storage sites, since these requests too have a long half-life.   > 	( Hm, maybe I am giving away some of the secret procedures atB 	OpenVMS Engineering. Hark ! What's that noise ? Oh no ! The black 	helicopters... I knew it... )D                                                        :-)     Csaba  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- F   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  phaeton at iinet dot net dot auE --------------------------------------------------------------------- <     EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:  1   Consultant (n.), an ant that advises companies.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:07:15 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses) + Message-ID: <43FBD563.69718D41@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Dave Froble wrote:K > > The SYI in the lexical name stands for system.  I'd agree with Phillip, J > > keep things where they belong, and not where they don't belong.  UsingK > > GETSYI as a catch-all for everything doesn't seem the correct solution.  > G > GETSYI already has the capability to fetch information from the other F > nodes in the cluster, which is why I suggested the ability to get IP1 > address be part of that system service/lexical.   E GETSYI doesn't, for example, return the DECnet address, and DECnet is  more "native" than UCX.   H > Getting this node's IP address and host name is trivial with F$TRNLNM.  C ...provided the contents of the logical name translations are up to $ date. That can't be guaranteed 100%.  F I'd have to go with the others, but I'd suggest a service/lexical nameH such as (SYS)$GETUCX and F$GETUCX() to avoid possible confusion on thoseE sites running third-party TCP/IP stacks. Alternately, (SYS)$TCPIP and E F$TCPIP() might be feasible, provided VMS works with PSC to provide a D consistent interface in both TCP/IP Services and the "UCX emulation"B provided by the Multinet TCP/IP stack and/or TCPware TCP/IP stack.  C (I routinely use "UCX" to distinguish the software product from the  network stack.)    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:52:22 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: F$GETSYI suggestion (IP addresses) , Message-ID: <43FBDFDE.B8D23590@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: H > I'd have to go with the others, but I'd suggest a service/lexical nameJ > such as (SYS)$GETUCX and F$GETUCX() to avoid possible confusion on those* > sites running third-party TCP/IP stacks.   WRONG.  H What do you think is the best solution: for the VMS and Multinet/TCPWareE engineers to have lunch together and agree on a standard interface to G some SYS$GETTCPIP service and have applications be totally oblivious to G the colour of the TCPIP stack under them, or continue to have disparate D calling standards which prevent applicatiosn from using them becauseD they are not garanteed to work, forcing application writers to write8 more complex code and re-invent the wheel all the time ?  F The value to customers of a unified interface is worth far more than a few hours of engineers' time.    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2006 20:48:05 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)F Subject: Re: Gartner wakes up company executives to X86-64 scalability+ Message-ID: <461ck5F8oqsfU4@individual.net>   A In article <1140546142.390030.9050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  	bob@instantwhip.com writes: > I thought VMS is garbage?   > Boob, when will you quit being such an ass.  Andrew never said? VMS was garbage.  he said most of what you spouted about ti was   garbage and that hasn't changed.   B >                           Why are you working for a company thatG > bought and tried to imitate the best it could parts of its clustering 
 > technology?  > " > A little hypocritical, isn't it?  J Why are your users running Windows on the desktop?  A little hypocritical,	 isn't it?     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:11:08 +1100 $ From: Phaeton <phaeton@iinet.net.au>F Subject: Re: Gartner wakes up company executives to X86-64 scalabilityJ Message-ID: <43fbac1b$0$12207$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>  
 Andrew wrote: H > I left Sun 18 months ago, so I would not read too much into me postingI > from Symantec and Sun's current health. Truth is that after 19 years at I > Sun I felt like a change and thats it. No rats, no ships, no conspiracy . > theory. Oh and VERITAS made me a nice offer.  F 	Fair enough, Andrew. But you know how it is, a swipe at our "enemies"E 	is fair play here in this group :-)  19 years in one place ? I would : 	have gone nuts, except, of course, if it had been DEC :-)  @ 	Good luck with your new job, and in your new environment. MaybeA 	Symantec will see the light one day and will bring out some good $ 	product(s) for VMS in the future...I                                                           Cheers,   Csaba   1 	P.S. I still think that Sun is in trouble... :-)   E --------------------------------------------------------------------- F   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  phaeton at iinet dot net dot auE --------------------------------------------------------------------- <     EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:  "   Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics :#    Things get worse under pressure.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:26:56 GMT I From: "bgInc. - You'll go where we want you to go" <ereiamjh@pacbell.net> F Subject: Re: Gartner wakes up company executives to X86-64 scalability> Message-ID: <kKRKf.51100$dW3.40811@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>   > Main, Kerry wrote: > I >> Pick up any Customer RFP these days and they will emphasize that their C >> servers are grossly under utilized. To paraphrase a recent large G >> financial company external RFP - "we have approximately 8,000 Wintel I >> servers and have determined that the average utilization in prime time  >> is approx 10%." >>  F The original quote from 'gartner' is rediculous, CIOs are looking for F 60%+ utilization? bgOS will run like shit at that usage level. Either % CIOs or 'gartner' (or both) are nuts.   E Anyway, weren't Gartner the ones who helped vendors churn those same  I CIO's accounts - getting them to fill their datacenters with a gazillion  G supposedly cheaper 1U bathgatesOS 'servers' to  replace larger systems  E running quality software? The application vendors came along for the  H ride to Redmond too, basically leading the end-user companies around by C the nose. Now it's coming home to roost - even though hardware has  I gotten incredibly faster and cheaper, their power and space requirements  F are actually increasing to be able to run the multiple copies of this A scattered bloatware. They then get suckered into buying multiple  H overlapping copies of this week's flavor of 'management software tools' G and 'enterprise backup solutions' just to make this pig fly (apologies  % to pigs everywhere). So much for TCO.   E Their disaster recovery, meanwhile, is in a state of utter disarray,  E because dumb CHS-centric bgOS DR starts with the following - install  I virgin windows on bare metal, THEN start restoring your data! Compare to  I VMS where you restore your backup to disk and boot - you're DONE. What a  C joke! Now the only thing that will save them from this disaster is  H VMware, ghost and other workaround attempts to save bgOS by hiding from ? it the things it thinks it needs to know and acts stupid about.   B And at this late date, somehow these companies think they weren't I screwed, and weren't stupid, just because so many others are in the same  E boat. yeaze. I guess it's just politics as usual. Gartner, and billy  1 bathgates, appear to be very good at that indeed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:27:25 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: Here it is: OpenVMS/Alpha on a simulator + Message-ID: <43FBDA1D.FD84AD3B@comcast.net>    "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > [snip]D > HP does not give free hardware to hobbyists.  It's unreasonable toD > expect SRI/EI to give away its "hardware".  SRI, for its part, has8 > posted limited versions of CHARON-VAX on its web site.  F I wouldn't expect any give-aways; on the other hand, even VMS provides> full function with limited license at *VERY* affordable price.  C I think that may be what some folks are chafing at: the prospect of ? paying a week's take-home or so for a hobby item is indeed most G difficult to justify, and right now potential friends for anything that D relates to VMS are indeed an extremely rare commodity. Personally, IC think both SRI and Emulators International should be supporting the H hobbyist movement since from there is likely to come the commercial userF base of the Alpha emulation product when Alpha kit goes the way of the VAXes later this year.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:32:15 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Inline FTP command from a .CMD + Message-ID: <43FBCD2F.7D65CB60@comcast.net>    kerowo@gmail.com wrote:  > H > Thanks for the replies.  Sorry, I don't know the version of FTP we areG > using but we are running VMS Version V7.3-2.  We have an external FTP D > procedure that will build a FTP command file and run it.  However,@ > there is a bug with the OS that occurs sometimes dereferencingF > logicals, which is why I was trying to in-line the FTP statement forE > testing purposes.  The working version of the code looks like this:  > $ FTP nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn -  >     /USERNAME="name" - >     /PASSWORD="pw" >   SET TYPE ASCII0 >   PUT [WORKMAN_KR]FTP_TO.LMF;1 CO1_IDCARDS.TXT >   EXIT > $   F As it happens, I used your example today to send an almost 4GB dump to; OpenVMS support. My FTP proc. wouldn't work even though the B username/password was verified valid (by me, from a Reflection FTPH session). I started out only quoting the password, but it wasn't workingD for me. When I put the (lowercase) username in quotes as well as the' mixed-case password, goodness happened.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:28:10 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  Subject: Re: is this a DECTERM ?$ Message-ID: <dtft4q$202$4@online.de>  4 In article <43FAFBF5.63D7C8F@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    D > Is there a way to find out if the "terminal" at the other end is a! > DECTERM or just a VT terminal ?   < Some folks would say "a VT terminal or just a DECTERM".  :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:35:09 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)   Subject: Re: is this a DECTERM ?1 Message-ID: <xAMKf.3433$HZ3.978@news.cpqcorp.net>   [ In article <43FAFBF5.63D7C8F@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: E :I have a DECTERM running on BIKE. From it, I  "SET HOST VELO".  From / :VELO's point of view, it is an RTAx: terminal.   8   That's a DECnet remote terminal, and a remote DECterm.9   The DECnet RTDRIVER device driver is the device driver. :   Through the network, this driver then connects with the    DECterm, and the FTDRIVER.  D :Similarly, I can TELNET VELO and I will appear as a TNAxxx: device.  5   That's an IP telnet terminal, and a remote DECterm. 9   The TCP/IP TNDRIVER device driver is the device driver. :   Through the network, this driver then connects with the    DECterm, and the FTDRIVER.  I :I can also use a character cell telnet utility on my mac to access VELO, % :again appearing as a TNAxxx: device.  : 
 :QUESTION: : C :Is there a way to find out if the "terminal" at the other end is a   :DECTERM or just a VT terminal ?  E   I'd tend to use rexec or rsh, DECnet task-to-task, or other similar H   commands and a CREATE/TERMINAL, and use a DECterm local to the sessionG   running the commands.  See Ask The Wizard (159) and (5409) for DECnet F   tools that can be used for this purpose.  Get the terminal local andE   use IP or DECnet (and the SET DISPLAY command) to aim the X display    back at the remote system.  H :Goal: if a connection comes from an X terminal/DECTERM, I want DCL codeH :to execute various command that set EDIT to spanw/nowait the decwindowsI :TPU editor. If it is a true blue (or orange :-) VT terminal, then I just ? :setup my commands to call up the basic character cell TPU/EVE.  : A   If the session called CREATE/TERMINAL, you can have the startup    do whatever you want.   J :Is there a way (in DCL) to find out if the remote terminal is a DECTERM ?  E   Not particularly reliably.  You can sometimes assume it, of course, :   if you happen to know the context and the environment.    G   As a general rule, most OpenVMS applications tend to ask questions of G   the terminal in the form of "do you have feature [xyz]?", and do not      tend to ask the terminal type.  6 :DECTERMs appear as VT300 series devices in SHOW TERM.  C   That arises when the DECterm is set to respond with that sequence C   and not with a DECterm terminal identification, or when the local 2   host is simply assuming a VT300-series terminal.  C   In most DECterm implementations, see the Options->General setting C   for the terminal answer setting -- and the host will also have to -   inquire about the terminal type, of course.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:55:06 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>  Subject: Re: is this a DECTERM ?, Message-ID: <43FB9A44.25D8708D@teksavvy.com>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: G > Won't the TPU (EVE) just default to character cell if X is not avail?     & If it is a decterm, this is what I do:  , $ED*IT :== "spawn/nowait/input=NL: EDITR/TPU' $DEFINE TPU$DISPLAY_MANAGER  DECWINDOWS     G And if this is on a character cell terminal, this won't work at all. On # character cell terminals i just to   ED*IT :== "EDITR/TPU"   E (I also define a default file for the tpu commands, but that works on F both interfaces even if some of the commands are not applicable to the character cell terminals).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:21:32 -0500 2 From: "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb.NOSP@M.cdrh.fda.gov>? Subject: Re: LD devices in shadowsets on fault tolerant cluster 0 Message-ID: <OnMKf.42$9r.34@mencken.net.nih.gov>  ; Thanks, Jur, for your post and great work on the LD driver.   8 "Jur van der Burg" <vdburg@hotmail.com> wrote in message0 news:43fae9a8$0$11080$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...& > Ok, a word from the LDdriver author.  
 [big snip]   > Q http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v6/disk_partitioning_with_lddriver.html    [even bigger snip]  @ So, inquiring minds want to know...  What is "OpenVMS Sustaining! Engineering" sustaining, exactly?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:56:28 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: More VMS & DCL wish list items * Message-ID: <43FBD2DC.C884D44@comcast.net>   Albrecht Schlosser wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > Albrecht Schlosser wrote:  > >> David J Dachtera wrote:J > >>> From a thread about finding *THE* log file for a specific batch job: > >>> G > >>> o We need to have SHOW ENTRY/FULL, and co. be able to display the M > >>> explicit, fully qualified filespec of the job's log file, including the  > >>> correct version number. M > >> ... and we need some more qualifiers to select the jobs to be displayed, 	 > >> e.g.  > >> > >>    /since=... /before=... > >> > >> together with > >>< > >>    /started or /completed (default would be /completed) > >> > >> and/or the  > >>? > >>    /queue=... (obviously wildcards would be _very_ useful)  > >> > >> and maybe more ...  > > D > > ...like /ELAPSED and/or /RUNNING_SINCE. I have a DCL proc. in myH > > DCL$PATH which I call SHAFT.COM (SHow entry/AFTer) which, as well asE > > showing the /AFTER time for jobs, also shows the LOGINTIM for the , > > process if the job is currently running. > > 8 > > Just a couple or three items that SHOW ENTRY forgot. > > G > > /SINCE and /BEFORE might need modifiers like /SUBMITTED, /COMPLETED , > > (/COMPLETED being the default, perhaps). > >  > D > ... and I forgot to mention: the same would apply to delete/entry. > D > Did I mention "/retained" to qualify the entries? Maybe also as an2 > additional qualifier to /since and /before ... ? > E > Delete/entry would also need /confirm as a qualifier (displaying at I > least the entry number and job name and maybe user name) to decide when  > being asked to confirm.  > 
 > Example: > I > $ delete/entry [/queue=*abc*xy] /user=me /completed /before=yesterday - & >    /since=-10-0 /confirm [/retained] > E > BTW: this would also make the entry number an _optional_ parameter.   F SHAFT.COM and my ENTDEL.COM have code allow entry numbers to specified8 as comma separated lists as well as ranges. For example:    $ SHAFT 722-756,790,823-825,1022  0 Oh, yeah: for SHOW ENTRY and/or SHOW QUEUE/FULL:  C How 'bout displaying the /AFTER time of a job that is running or is H retained on completion/error. SHAFT can do that. It's an item retievableD via F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_ENTRY", ...) and F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB", ...).   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:50:43 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile+ Message-ID: <43FBD183.97A0FA95@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > K > > The folks who put out Multinet seem to manage by distributing .OLBs for 6 > > their product, and it is *DEFINITELY* much C code. > G > If there is conditional compilation (for instance, whether to support  > HTTPS:  H At this stage of software development evolution, I'd expect that to be a3 configurable option, not conditionally compiled-in.   B > and if so, with which SSL software to use), then it becomes hard. > to supply a single OLB unless you put strick   strict  ! > set of software pre-requisites.   E I'd expect that to be designed such that one need only LINK against a D suitable SHH RTL - which perhaps implies or assumes the existence of@ agreed-upon standards for such which may or may not be the case.  H Software, especially commercial software, that *MUST* be compiled/LINKedG from source *MUST* - by definition - be distributed with an appropriate F compiler used only at install time in order to be financially feasibleD for the end user, until/unless a suitable compiler becomes a bundledF item in OpenVMS. Show me a customer who will pay license/support costsA for a compiler used only to install the vendor's new versions and C pacthes/upgrades and I'll show you a government site where wasteful  spending is the norm.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:37:34 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile, Message-ID: <43FBDC67.8BF17546@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: I > > If there is conditional compilation (for instance, whether to support 
 > > HTTPS: > J > At this stage of software development evolution, I'd expect that to be a5 > configurable option, not conditionally compiled-in.     H The linker will complain if the object files or shareable images for SSLF support are not present. If if you prepare pre-linked kits, then it isE the image activator that will complain when the customer tries to run = that image even if that customer doesn't intend to use HTTPS:   ? The solution would be to use a tond of LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL to G dynamically load all of the features of an application, and that breaks ( a lot of the open source code available.  G Kermit is also an application that needs conditional compilation on VMS  depending on what is installed.     E This is what happens when VMS, an a proprietary operating system lags G behind and you start getting a mismash of software from various sources H to fill in the gaps because the VMS owners aren't spenduing enough money+ to keep VMS up to date on the new software.   C For instance, look at how long it took for VMS to gain a "standard" F TCPIP calling convention so that an application could work with any ofC the stacks. Byt that time, applicatiosn had already been setup with A conditional compiles depending on what stack had beern installed.     E And It is only recently that the owner of VMS has put in SSL support, I but this is so late that the majority are still with the OpenSSL package.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 03:37:05 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>  Subject: Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile) Message-ID: <B%QKf.9880$GQ.8320@trnddc03>    George Cook wrote:b > In article <43F7F2D0.2EC74766@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > ! >>tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  >> >>>HelloJ >>>As I type in this message, I am compiling Mosaic V3.9 on a 3100-40 with >>>24megs of ram. A >>>So far it has taken 2 reboots and  3 hours and counting. I was  >>>wondering what files are H >>>needed so I can just copy them to some other VAXes, or does each copy >>>of Mosaic need " >>>to be compile on each machine?? >>H >>No program should *EVER* need to be built from source on each machine. >>That's ludicrous.  >>I >>There is some difference of option, but I hold that LINKing from source 7 >>on each target is worst it should *EVER* have to get.  >>A >>...but that's just me. I've yet to see an o.s. that can only be F >>installed from source (though, perhaps such may exist). So, I see no< >>reason why layered products, etc. should be any different. >  > F > Name one other layered product which must be linked with TCP/IP, SSLF > and Motif, and which will run on VMS 5.4-3 onward, Motif 1.1 onward,F > HP SSL or OpenSSL (0.9.4 onward), and any of the major TCP/IP stacksF > including CMU (whether or not they provide UCX compatibility).  Then  	 Kermit???   F (For which reason there are lots of precompiled versions on the Kermit: web site, and they are always looking for new variations.)  F > there is the issue of which C (DEC C, VAX C or GNU C) RTL shareablesE > or OLBs to link VAX executables against, or how to provide VAX OLBs H > which will link in any of the three possible C environments.  It wouldD > be a nightmare to provide bug fixes (between releases) in any form > other than source. > B > One of the primary goals of keeping Mosaic alive is to provide aB > usable, fast, small, secure GUI web browser for all possible VMSD > software environments where there is no good alternative.  As longB > as I only need to worry about distributing source, the amount ofC > work I need to do to continue supporting all these enviroments is H > quite small.  Almost all of the time I spend on software compatibilityC > is in making Mosaic work with new versions of VMS, Motif and SSL. A > Keeping Mosaic working with the old stuff just requires a small H > amount of discipline in not using every new gee-wiz software feature.  > F > Of course if someone wanted to volunteer to do all the work requiredG > to distribute Mosaic in a form other than source, I would not object.  >  > 
 > George Cook 	 > WVNET     E Thank you for all your work.  Even though I'm not currently using it,  I still appreciate it.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2006 00:21:14 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)   Subject: Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile! Message-ID: <UaWZ3miZA4sC@wvnvms>   L In article <B%QKf.9880$GQ.8320@trnddc03>, John Santos <john@egh.com> writes: > George Cook wrote:c >> In article <43F7F2D0.2EC74766@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >>  " >>>tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote: >>> 	 >>>>Hello K >>>>As I type in this message, I am compiling Mosaic V3.9 on a 3100-40 with  >>>>24megs of ram.B >>>>So far it has taken 2 reboots and  3 hours and counting. I was >>>>wondering what files areI >>>>needed so I can just copy them to some other VAXes, or does each copy  >>>>of Mosaic need# >>>>to be compile on each machine??  >>> I >>>No program should *EVER* need to be built from source on each machine.  >>>That's ludicrous. >>> J >>>There is some difference of option, but I hold that LINKing from source8 >>>on each target is worst it should *EVER* have to get. >>> B >>>...but that's just me. I've yet to see an o.s. that can only beG >>>installed from source (though, perhaps such may exist). So, I see no = >>>reason why layered products, etc. should be any different.  >>   >>  G >> Name one other layered product which must be linked with TCP/IP, SSL G >> and Motif, and which will run on VMS 5.4-3 onward, Motif 1.1 onward, G >> HP SSL or OpenSSL (0.9.4 onward), and any of the major TCP/IP stacks G >> including CMU (whether or not they provide UCX compatibility).  Then  >  > Kermit???   G I haven't kept up with Kermit.  It has a Motif based GUI interface now?   E If I had to provide OLBs, the very first thing to go would be support G for Motif 1.1 (not a major need for it actually).  Motif 1.1 is missing 3 some routines and has at least one routine renamed.   H > (For which reason there are lots of precompiled versions on the Kermit< > web site, and they are always looking for new variations.)  ? When someone has requested a Mosaic executable for a particular > environment, someone else has usually been able to provide it.     George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 06:02:38 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>  Subject: Re: Mosaic v3.9 compile) Message-ID: <28TKf.8580$yw4.337@trnddc05>    George Cook wrote:N > In article <B%QKf.9880$GQ.8320@trnddc03>, John Santos <john@egh.com> writes: >  >>George Cook wrote: >>c >>>In article <43F7F2D0.2EC74766@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >>>  >>> # >>>>tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  >>>> >>>>
 >>>>>HelloL >>>>>As I type in this message, I am compiling Mosaic V3.9 on a 3100-40 with >>>>>24megs of ram. C >>>>>So far it has taken 2 reboots and  3 hours and counting. I was  >>>>>wondering what files are J >>>>>needed so I can just copy them to some other VAXes, or does each copy >>>>>of Mosaic need $ >>>>>to be compile on each machine?? >>>>J >>>>No program should *EVER* need to be built from source on each machine. >>>>That's ludicrous.  >>>>K >>>>There is some difference of option, but I hold that LINKing from source 9 >>>>on each target is worst it should *EVER* have to get.  >>>>C >>>>...but that's just me. I've yet to see an o.s. that can only be H >>>>installed from source (though, perhaps such may exist). So, I see no> >>>>reason why layered products, etc. should be any different. >>>  >>> G >>>Name one other layered product which must be linked with TCP/IP, SSL G >>>and Motif, and which will run on VMS 5.4-3 onward, Motif 1.1 onward, G >>>HP SSL or OpenSSL (0.9.4 onward), and any of the major TCP/IP stacks G >>>including CMU (whether or not they provide UCX compatibility).  Then  >> >>Kermit???  >  > I > I haven't kept up with Kermit.  It has a Motif based GUI interface now?  >   D No, but it does support ancient VMS versions, all the IP stacks, SSL9 (though maybe not on VMS), a variety of C compilers, etc.   D It was the only thing I could thing of that came close to Mosaic forC breadth of support, and it took a lot of work by a lot of people to  provide it.   G > If I had to provide OLBs, the very first thing to go would be support I > for Motif 1.1 (not a major need for it actually).  Motif 1.1 is missing 5 > some routines and has at least one routine renamed.  >  > H >>(For which reason there are lots of precompiled versions on the Kermit< >>web site, and they are always looking for new variations.) >  > A > When someone has requested a Mosaic executable for a particular @ > environment, someone else has usually been able to provide it. >   B Kermit has a web site for this, which is shared with Kermits for aB zillion other operating systems, so keeping a bunch of variant VMSC versions is no big deal (provided someone has built them.)  Setting C up and maintaining a web site just for VMS Mosaic might be too much C work for a volunteer.  Maybe Openvms.org or someone would volunteer D a web/ftp directory for this?  (People could look there for prebuiltA versions that match their requirements.  If one exists, fine.  If C not, they could if they have the right compilers, etc. download the D source, build their version, and as a courtesy to others, upload theD executable.  This is how the Kermit site works, with some vetting of@ the uploaders to make sure they are competent and not malicious.   > 
 > George Cook  > WVNET      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2006 00:07:32 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com 1 Subject: Re: OpenBSD says secure levels "useless" * Message-ID: <dtga040j2@enews4.newsguy.com>  5 Craig A. Berry <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote: I > In article <dt5qvi01lmm@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: H > > Sadly, somehow the quote from Theo de Raadt: "Sorry, we are going toG > > change nothing. Securelevels are useless." sounds like his standard J > > behaviour.  OpenBSD is pretty much the most secure Unix out there, andD > > it's one of the most secure OS's period.  It does have one majorK > > downside though, and that is who is in charge of the project.  It would H > > be interesting to know his reasons for declaring "BSD Secure Levels" > > useless.  I > I don't know anything about Theo, and not all that much about OpenBSD,  J > and since there is no authority that he actually says what the Register H > quotes him as saying except a security company that stands to benefit I > from slinging mud at OpenBSD, all of what we (including the press) say  I > is speculation.  But given OpenBSD's imperative of security out of the  D > box, Theo's impatient response to a security advisory reporting a J > limitation in a non-default protection scheme that various people claim H > to have known about for years isn't that surprising.  A "securelevel" G > on BSD-like systems is a way of declaring certain files "immutable,"  D > which means they can't be changed without a reboot.  The security I > advisory points out that a user with root privileges can mount another  J > filesystem that masks the immutable files, thus making them temporarily I > mutable.  OpenBSD is not less secure because its maintainer apparently  J > believes defending yourself against an attacker who already has root is ? > "useless".  In any case, it really has nothing to do with OS  I > security per se, but with the relative merits or demerits of an add-on  
 > utility.  H In this case, I personally don't think his actions have done anything toG make OpenBSD less secure.  Unfortunately there is at least one instance K where his actions have made it less secure.  When he got in a snit over the J license the author of the old firewall software switched to, he ripped theG that software out without a suitable replacement.  As a result the next D release of OpenBSD for the Alpha shipped without any firewall or NATJ software.  In another case Theo cost the project a major source of funding. that would really have helped in advancing it.  I In spite of all of this, I personally feel that OpenBSD really is a great J product, it is one of my favorite Unix varients, and the only Unix varientJ that I trust to be connected directly to the Internet (the only other OS IK trust like that is OpenVMS).  I'd definitely rather run OpenBSD than Linux, = given the choice, but for some things Linux does work better.    		Zane   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 12:37:06 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs 3 Message-ID: <pdYH7gqvNUpg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1140545372.781679.281670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: . > when is security and uptime not practical??? >   B Ok, I give up. [Whoever said I was wasting my time was right. :-)]  G The answer, once again, to your question is that in order to be able to 5 use VMS, your application must actually _run_ on VMS.   F You also need to realise that Linux, especially with the NSA developedH SELinux security model, (see http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/ ) is now givingC acceptable uptime and security for many less critical applications.   > And finally, I _really_ wish that I could use VMS for _all_ myH applications, both at work and home, but sadly that's just not possible.  2 Here concludes my failed attempt at communication.   Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP I If Google's motto is "do no wrong", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ?    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:19:20 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs $ Message-ID: <dtfsk8$202$2@online.de>  C In article <1140494652.600775.163470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  bob@instantwhip.com writes:   9 > my users use windoze as a gui for vms, nothing more ...   D Bob, why aren't you helping your users avoid windoze entirely?  Why , can't they have a VMS machine on their desk?   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:20:55 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs $ Message-ID: <dtfsn6$202$3@online.de>  C In article <1140529209.887438.211380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  bob@instantwhip.com writes:   E > terminal emulator, web browser, outhouse express, and an occasional 6 > excel spreadsheet ... what other good is windoze ...  F Do you honestly think that windoze terminal emulators, email programs I and excel are actually good?  Have you ever used a real news reader (for   example, one running on VMS)?    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 12:36:35 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs C Message-ID: <1140554195.029276.217310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   > it doesn't matter what I think, it is what the user thinks and wants!   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 12:40:22 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs B Message-ID: <1140554422.107762.69860@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  F because our users want flat screen monitors for desk space and since I@ can't seem to find a flat panel VT monitor on the market (I haveG requested this for years) and since dell is giving them away, and since ? a dell with free flat screen is alot cheaper than a thin client  solution, you have NO choice!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:49:47 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs 9 Message-ID: <TeidnSju9b5SKWbenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@libcom.com>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote:@ > it doesn't matter what I think, it is what the user thinks and > wants! >   / That's part of the reason we're in such a mess.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 03:20:53 GMT 3 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US> 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs = Message-ID: <pMQKf.59486$PL5.1805@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote:H > because our users want flat screen monitors for desk space and since IB > can't seem to find a flat panel VT monitor on the market (I haveI > requested this for years) and since dell is giving them away, and since A > a dell with free flat screen is alot cheaper than a thin client  > solution, you have NO choice!  >   F    I'm on a VMS workstation using a flat panel monitor (HP 2335) usingD a BN36-1F cable.  The flat panel supports video green-on-red and theG 1280x1024 resolution.  To bad it doesn't work with the 1920x1200 format ! that the PowerStorm 350 puts out.    Vance    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:31:01 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs + Message-ID: <43FBDAF5.4CCA0890@comcast.net>    Vance Haemmerle wrote: >  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote:J > > because our users want flat screen monitors for desk space and since ID > > can't seem to find a flat panel VT monitor on the market (I haveK > > requested this for years) and since dell is giving them away, and since C > > a dell with free flat screen is alot cheaper than a thin client ! > > solution, you have NO choice!  > >  > H >    I'm on a VMS workstation using a flat panel monitor (HP 2335) usingF > a BN36-1F cable.  The flat panel supports video green-on-red and theI > 1280x1024 resolution.  To bad it doesn't work with the 1920x1200 format # > that the PowerStorm 350 puts out.   9 What *IS* your "VMS workstation"? An Alpha? A VAXstation?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 23:03:46 -0700 + From: Mark Berryman <mark@theberrymans.com> 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS proves superior to all other OSs % Message-ID: <43fb8e43$1@mvb.saic.com>    Vance Haemmerle wrote: > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > I >> because our users want flat screen monitors for desk space and since I C >> can't seem to find a flat panel VT monitor on the market (I have J >> requested this for years) and since dell is giving them away, and sinceB >> a dell with free flat screen is alot cheaper than a thin client  >> solution, you have NO choice! >> > G >   I'm on a VMS workstation using a flat panel monitor (HP 2335) using F > a BN36-1F cable.  The flat panel supports video green-on-red and theI > 1280x1024 resolution.  To bad it doesn't work with the 1920x1200 format # > that the PowerStorm 350 puts out.   B      I'm on a VMS workstation using a 20 inch, flat panel monitor G running at 1600x1200 native resolution using a Radeon 7500 video card.  G The workstation itself is a DS10.  Providing VMS on the desktop with a  - flat panel monitor is most definitely doable.   @ I am currently posting using Thunderbird on Windows until I get J Thunderbird built on VMS (I'm working on Firefox first, then Thunderbird).  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 11:15:46 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com 6 Subject: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!C Message-ID: <1140549346.837217.265400@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   B because it was never designed to be ... OpenVMS was, and no matterG how many so called secure bells and whistles are put on unix and linux, D they will ultimately fail because of the insecure (root) design.  So calling C linux securelinux, almostsecurelinux, guaranteedsecurelinux, or any  other * name is and will always be an oxymoron ...  = http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/19/securelevel_bsd_unix/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:08:55 -0600 * From: Michael Clark <mclark@nemschoff.com>: Subject: RE: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!O Message-ID: <63A94C936E444C44BD5826A08202CF5B8172C7@EMAILSERVER2.nemschoff.com>    <rant>J Problem Bob?  You have to knock other peoples work just because you have a VMS hard on?H OpenBSD is a good project, no need to put it down just because you favor something else. L Also if you READ( you can do that right ) the article you linked, and Theo'sL comments, "Sorry, we are going to change nothing. Securelevels are useless."= These "features" are not even in use in OpenBSD my default.     L That's like saying OpenVMS is insecure because you can enable telnet on with$ a user account that has no password. </rant>          -----Original Message-----7 From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]  ( Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:16 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 Subject: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!  B because it was never designed to be ... OpenVMS was, and no matterG how many so called secure bells and whistles are put on unix and linux, D they will ultimately fail because of the insecure (root) design.  So calling C linux securelinux, almostsecurelinux, guaranteedsecurelinux, or any  other * name is and will always be an oxymoron ...  = http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/19/securelevel_bsd_unix/     A CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This electronic transmission, including all L attachments, is directed in confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it isL addressed, or an authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed,L copied or disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject toJ intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed andG are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, please H notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and thenH immediately delete this transmission, including all attachments, without* copying, distributing or disclosing same.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 14:09:31 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com : Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!C Message-ID: <1140559192.216920.170790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   @ and if you read on further, the root of the problem is the root!= Windoze has the same problem, it is all or none security, and ? that just will not work!  And is seems that since linux and bsd : and any other unix extended language share this flaw, they@ are all in the same boat ... I do not need to put anything down,< I go by facts ... are you saying bsd is on the same level as, OpenVMS?  And Andrew, CERT counts don't lie!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:00:51 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> : Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!/ Message-ID: <ReednZUH0fz0KmbeRVn-gQ@libcom.com>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote:B > and if you read on further, the root of the problem is the root!? > Windoze has the same problem, it is all or none security, and A > that just will not work!  And is seems that since linux and bsd < > and any other unix extended language share this flaw, theyB > are all in the same boat ... I do not need to put anything down,> > I go by facts ... are you saying bsd is on the same level as. > OpenVMS?  And Andrew, CERT counts don't lie! >   F It's not that Unix has a 'root' user.  The issue is how easy it is to  get 'root' login/privs.   E Are you going to tell me that BYPASS is any less of a security issue   than the 'root' user on Unix?   G Actually, VMS has a bunch of potential security problems.  Let someong  H get BYPASS, SYSPRV, SETPRV, OPER, CMEXEC, CMKRNL, DETACH, and such, and  you're dead meat.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 17:02:43 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com : Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!C Message-ID: <1140570163.624124.167930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   < you don't just get bypass priviledge ... someone has to give
 it to you ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:35:09 GMT I From: "bgInc. - You'll go where we want you to go" <ereiamjh@pacbell.net> : Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!> Message-ID: <1SRKf.51102$dW3.21520@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:> > you don't just get bypass priviledge ... someone has to give > it to you ...  >   G The original point you are trying to make is incorrect - linux/bsd are  H not at all like 'windows'. windows is completely a single-user mindset, F that's not true of the others. You always seem to lump them together, F thus doing linux/unix/etc a big disservice, while giving bill gates a 5 hell of a huge, and undeserved, benefit of the doubt.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:29:08 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> : Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!9 Message-ID: <tOednVhaEcDFmWHenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@libcom.com>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote:> > you don't just get bypass priviledge ... someone has to give > it to you ...  >   G Ok, I'm not a Unix user, but I'm thinking that the same holds true for   getting the root privs/login.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:43:15 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) C Subject: Re: SRMFLASH update on Alpha4100 quad 5/533 taking forever 1 Message-ID: <n3KKf.3409$hQ3.910@news.cpqcorp.net>   s In article <1140540461.860929.11280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "Schnootling" <chuckmoore55@hotmail.com> writes:   > :I recently purchased an(other) Alpha 4100. It's a quad 5/533. : ? :I started a firmware upgrade on the box. The AlphaBIOS upgrade H :completed successfully, however the srmflash upgrade (started yesterdayC :at approx. 3:30pm U.S. PST) has yet to finish. That is, the system  :console shows: H : WARNING: updates may take several minutes to complete for each device.  A   I've seen this with an error during the upgrade, and would tend ?   to switch to the failsafe loader and re-load the flash.  I've @   seen this when the wrong firmware is loaded, and when the jumpB   between the two firmware revisions present (current and new) is    too large.  , :1) How many days does this normally take ??     A few minutes, usually.   F :2) Can I (gulp) power-off/on safely ?  (Safely = end up with a system :that will still boot.)   B   You SHOULD be able to power off, but there's a reasonable chance#   that the firmware is now corrupt.   B :3) I combed the group's messages for SRM and found a reference toC :"clear_srm_nvram". Is this something I should do before attempting  :another update ?   A   As there's a reasonable chance the firmware is now corrupt, you F   will likely not be able to get to this command.  (This command also C   clears the usual firmware settings, and not the firmware itself.)   G   The usual approach is to enable the failsafe loader (FSL) and re-load B   the firmware -- the AlphaServer 4000 and AlphaServer 4100 seriesH   don't have a jumper to select the FSL, the system firmware is intendedG   to detect a corruption and (if found) tries to enable one of the two  F   versions of the FSL that are present -- basically, if the FSL is to G   be selected, you need only insert a floppy disk image containing the  5   target SRM firmware, and reset the AlphaServer box.   C   See the mkboot and related materials referenced over in the FAQ,  E   if you don't have an OpenVMS box around to build the firmware disk. =   If you do, also see the directions at the firmware website.   E   If you have a MOP server around, you can also network bootstrap the    new SRM firmware, too.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:37:54 -0500 , From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com>C Subject: Re: SRMFLASH update on Alpha4100 quad 5/533 taking forever = Message-ID: <43fbc15d$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>   2 Go read the release notes for the firmware update.  D At one time we relocated the code in memory and there was a specific? procedure to perform to do the update or you'd end up like are.   L Sorry, I can't be any more specific, it was more than a few years ago and as I age, so does my memory.     0 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in message+ news:n3KKf.3409$hQ3.910@news.cpqcorp.net... D > In article <1140540461.860929.11280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,0 "Schnootling" <chuckmoore55@hotmail.com> writes: > @ > :I recently purchased an(other) Alpha 4100. It's a quad 5/533. > : A > :I started a firmware upgrade on the box. The AlphaBIOS upgrade J > :completed successfully, however the srmflash upgrade (started yesterdayE > :at approx. 3:30pm U.S. PST) has yet to finish. That is, the system  > :console shows: J > : WARNING: updates may take several minutes to complete for each device. > C >   I've seen this with an error during the upgrade, and would tend A >   to switch to the failsafe loader and re-load the flash.  I've B >   seen this when the wrong firmware is loaded, and when the jumpC >   between the two firmware revisions present (current and new) is  >   too large. > . > :1) How many days does this normally take ?? >  >   A few minutes, usually.  > H > :2) Can I (gulp) power-off/on safely ?  (Safely = end up with a system > :that will still boot.)  > D >   You SHOULD be able to power off, but there's a reasonable chance% >   that the firmware is now corrupt.  > D > :3) I combed the group's messages for SRM and found a reference toE > :"clear_srm_nvram". Is this something I should do before attempting  > :another update ?  > C >   As there's a reasonable chance the firmware is now corrupt, you G >   will likely not be able to get to this command.  (This command also E >   clears the usual firmware settings, and not the firmware itself.)  > I >   The usual approach is to enable the failsafe loader (FSL) and re-load D >   the firmware -- the AlphaServer 4000 and AlphaServer 4100 seriesJ >   don't have a jumper to select the FSL, the system firmware is intendedH >   to detect a corruption and (if found) tries to enable one of the twoG >   versions of the FSL that are present -- basically, if the FSL is to H >   be selected, you need only insert a floppy disk image containing the7 >   target SRM firmware, and reset the AlphaServer box.  > D >   See the mkboot and related materials referenced over in the FAQ,G >   if you don't have an OpenVMS box around to build the firmware disk. ? >   If you do, also see the directions at the firmware website.  > G >   If you have a MOP server around, you can also network bootstrap the  >   new SRM firmware, too. > ( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- 4 >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq , >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- I >        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[\0100]hp.com  >     . *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***X *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2006 20:47:59 -0800, From: "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com>C Subject: Re: SRMFLASH update on Alpha4100 quad 5/533 taking forever C Message-ID: <1140583679.507474.103120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   A This reference  ( AlphaServer 4x00 & Digital Server 7000 Systems) D discusses loading the firmware update to an OpenVMS system disk, and5 booting from it. Also goes over the diskette approach   J http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive/as4x00.html#method_6     It may help.   Robert Young ALI Database Consultants   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:15:27 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>L Subject: Re: Wanted:  Beta testers for poor man/woman's DEFRAGMENTATION tool+ Message-ID: <43FBD74F.71AB3C6A@comcast.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > c > In article <1140465364.118714.21140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com> writes: K > > After downloading Kostas Gavrieldis' VMS_CHECK and running it on 2 or 3 D > > clusters, I noticed that here and there would be a disk that had& > > terrible fragmentation situations. > K >    I wrote a poor man's file defragger (look for PMFD, not to be confused E >    with PMDF) and put it on the Freeware some time ago.  It defrags M >    individual files in the hope that doing so will tend to defrag the disk. L >    I have seen measureable perfromance improvements using it.  I have usedO >    the DFU reporting capabilities to verify it's tendency to defrag the disk. M >    And I have used it many times to defragment particular files when I knew ! >    said file needed defragging.  > D >    But I did get one system disk so fragged up that the only way IA >    could striaghten it out was standalone backup.  A commercial F >    defragging tools might have been able to fix it, and would in any7 >    case have a lot of features I never bothered with.   = In cases I've seen, the trouble is sometimes not so much file G fragmentation as free space fragmentation. Even DFU will defrag. files, H but cannot defrag. freespace without the SysAdmin getting REAL creative.  F Another use I once found for DFU was to make backup date recording runG asynchronously with the BACKUP job. Requires BACKUP to use /LIST. Lotta F magic there, including using EDT's Change mode in a batch job. It *IS* possible, but a bit hairy.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:42:53 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: What is going on with VAX prices on ebay?+ Message-ID: <43FBCFAC.75237525@comcast.net>   / "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:  > 5 > Is the same thing happening to Alpha systems too???  > 9 > Curious - we aren't allowed to buy from Ebay any longer , > Got burned for the 3rd time last week !!!! > M > Something that said it was tested, but not "tested OK and worked perfectly"   E If you feel you got burned you probably overpaid. If you got kit that F could be brought up to par with minimal to a modicum of effort, that'sC probably not unreasonable, given whats available in the field these  days.   / > Always a case of Caveat Emptor on Ebay anyway   E Caveat Emptor even for new kit from HP. New kit at least comes with a E warranty, though. We just one of new GS1280s go out with a single bit H error on a level-2 CPU cache. Something is not kosher with it because it< thinks it wasn't running an o.s. at the time - it was (VMS).  L > You are always better off buying from reputable dealer, even if you decide! > not to buy it from (us) Island. . > There are quite a few GOOD dealers out there  C The trick is finding one who'll take time out from their mainstream $ business to deal in VMS-capable kit.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.105 ************************