1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 25 Feb 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 112       Contents: Re: AMD blew it big time! ) Re: Andrew, why not Symantec buy OpenVMS? ) Re: DS10 466 Mhz EV6 upgrade 617 Mhz EV67 7 ds10l typical power consumption, and any other opinions ; Re: ds10l typical power consumption, and any other opinions ; Re: ds10l typical power consumption, and any other opinions ; Re: ds10l typical power consumption, and any other opinions K Re: Entry-level Integrity Servers? (was: Itanium still not on alpha level!) K Re: Entry-level Integrity Servers? (was: Itanium still not on alpha level!)  Re: Error message help?  Re: Error message help?  Re: Error message help?  Re: Error message help?  Re: Error message help? = Re: Gartner wakes up company executives to X86-64 scalability  Re: need help with Flakey VLC  Re: OpenVMS screenshots?1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! 1 Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure! # Re: question about VMS732_LMF-V0200 # Re: question about VMS732_LMF-V0200 # Re: question about VMS732_LMF-V0200  VAX 7000 series  VAXELN hobbyist license?* Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD?* Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD?* Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD?* Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD?* Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 03:08:02 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: AMD blew it big time!G Message-ID: <b-WdnRh_a_b6jZ3ZnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>   
 Andrew wrote:    ...   H > In the circumstances your opening salvo looks more and more like folly > and bravado on your part.   E That's only because you carefully snipped out the drivel of yours to  $ which I was specifically responding.  & So let's refresh your memory:  it read  H "Exactly how much quicker do you think the EV8 would have been than the + current Alpha processor ? 1.5x 2x perhaps."   H So when I went on to demonstrate that EV8 would not only have been over I 2x 'quicker' than the current EV7 running a single thread but would have  H been over 5x 'quicker' than the current EV7 running multiple threads in F a typical server workload, it was not exactly 'folly and bravado' but @ more like a successful refutation of your blatantly incompetent 4 statement (quoted again above for your edification).  I While I was sincere in welcoming you back, your persistence in trying to  F justify some of your wilder fantasies was *not* part of what I missed G while you were gone.  So if you're inclined to babble on further about    this, you can do so on your own.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:21:55 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 2 Subject: Re: Andrew, why not Symantec buy OpenVMS?1 Message-ID: <dtpi4o$856$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   
 Hi Andrew,  F > Same as always, correcting the incorrect, swatting the odd fly. Does: > that cause you any concern and if it doesn't should it ?  I It concerns me only in so much as I now have to witness yet more graffiti I being scratched into the public-transport windows of the good bus COV :-( I But why pick on you? At least you don't have to live here. Why get barred G from your local pub when you can trash someone else's when you've a big  noght planned?  H If anyone speaks Deutsche can they please tell ne the correct phrase I'mJ looking for, for someone who shit's on their own door step? It's somethingF like Neste-Besmircher (and accurately describes many who frequent this  forum) but I can't google-it up.  L Anyway I'm off to cut-up a few public phomes after taking a huge dump in theL driver's seat. I won't let you have nice things! I'm ugly and nasty and I'llK make sure you all are too! If you say anything nice about VMS' future, I'll 	 kill you!    Regards Richard Maher.  8 "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> wrote in message= news:1140615788.824977.113050@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  >  > Richard Maher wrote:* > > No, honestly, what are you doing here? > >  > F > Same as always, correcting the incorrect, swatting the odd fly. Does: > that cause you any concern and if it doesn't should it ? > 	 > Regards  > Andrew >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:48:35 -0500 * From: "d b turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>2 Subject: Re: DS10 466 Mhz EV6 upgrade 617 Mhz EV678 Message-ID: <akYLf.4647$eQ3.4223@bignews4.bellsouth.net>   you replace he whole board   Price is about $1500   David H <dittman@dittman.net> wrote in message news:VlRLf.161$pE4.70@trnddc04... > shofu_au@yahoo.com.au wrote: >> Hi Group, > J >> Is it possible to upgrade a DS10 466 Mhz EV6 to 617 Mhz EV67 system via >> CPU replacement?  > J >> >From the AlphaServer DS10 / DS10L, AlphaStation DS10 Console ReferenceJ >> guide in Appendix A it appears that it is just a set of jumper settings >> with the new CPU. >  >> Is this correct?  > 9 >> Anyone done the upgrade?  How complicated is it to do?  > @ > The CPU is soldered on the motherboard so the upgrade would be > somewhat difficult > without the proper equipment.  > G > I've also heard that the cache may be faster on the 600MHz DS10/DS10L D > motherboard.  If so, you'd have to replace the cache as well (also > soldered on the motherboard).  > H >> How hard is it to find a CPU to use for the replacement and what sort >> of cost is invovled?  >  > I've seen CPUs on eBay.  > --   > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:41:06 -0000 5 From: "Tom Garcia" <tgarcia-REMOVE-THIS@hivemind.org> @ Subject: ds10l typical power consumption, and any other opinions6 Message-ID: <440088a3$0$29564$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>  J Thinking about using one for a home vms server, so was wondering what the M typical power draw was on one of these things... please mention whether bare  . or with a number of drives or other expansion.  M Any subjective comments on use of these boxes -- noise, reliability, etc --   K would be welcome :-). As far as I'm aware, the two main gotchas are broken  E USB (disabled for some reason in later firmware builds ?) and use of   nonstandard RAM.   Thanks very much,    --  ! Tom Garcia | tgarcia@hivemind.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:12:32 -0500 * From: "d b turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>D Subject: Re: ds10l typical power consumption, and any other opinions: Message-ID: <ob0Mf.59874$697.46741@bignews3.bellsouth.net>  & Well, the power supply is 150w MAXIMUM   If that helps so...    David   A "Tom Garcia" <tgarcia-REMOVE-THIS@hivemind.org> wrote in message  0 news:440088a3$0$29564$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...L > Thinking about using one for a home vms server, so was wondering what the J > typical power draw was on one of these things... please mention whether 5 > bare or with a number of drives or other expansion.  > G > Any subjective comments on use of these boxes -- noise, reliability,  J > etc --  would be welcome :-). As far as I'm aware, the two main gotchas K > are broken USB (disabled for some reason in later firmware builds ?) and   > use of nonstandard RAM.  >  > Thanks very much,  >  > --  # > Tom Garcia | tgarcia@hivemind.org  >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:19:30 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)D Subject: Re: ds10l typical power consumption, and any other opinions2 Message-ID: <06022511193037_20331674@antinode.org>  5 From: "Tom Garcia" <tgarcia-REMOVE-THIS@hivemind.org>   O > Any subjective comments on use of these boxes -- noise, reliability, etc --   M > would be welcome :-). As far as I'm aware, the two main gotchas are broken  G > USB (disabled for some reason in later firmware builds ?) and use of   > nonstandard RAM.  B    Not enough PCI slots for me.  One slot is not enough for cheap,B easily found graphics, external SCSI, and supported USB cards, forG example.  I prefer my "new" XP1000 systems, although they're not nearly  so cute.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2006 18:38:04 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)D Subject: Re: ds10l typical power consumption, and any other opinions, Message-ID: <4400a40c$1@news.langstoeger.at>  n In article <440088a3$0$29564$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, "Tom Garcia" <tgarcia-REMOVE-THIS@hivemind.org> writes:K >Thinking about using one for a home vms server, so was wondering what the  N >typical power draw was on one of these things... please mention whether bare / >or with a number of drives or other expansion.   E Haven't metered it. But it is too warm and noisy for the living room. E Consider computer room, basement, toilet (not bathroom) or similar...   N >Any subjective comments on use of these boxes -- noise, reliability, etc --    J I have my DS10s for some years now. I was required to replace a powerunit.H But it was in the last month of the 3 year warranty, so no real problem. Otherwise, 150.- Euro or so ;-)   L >would be welcome :-). As far as I'm aware, the two main gotchas are broken F >USB (disabled for some reason in later firmware builds ?) and use of  >nonstandard RAM.   I Define Non-Standard RAM. DS10 uses 200pin Reg.ECC 100MHz CL2 (or better). G If you mean ECC is non Standard (means not cheap), then you're right...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:25:34 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) T Subject: Re: Entry-level Integrity Servers? (was: Itanium still not on alpha level!)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2502060725300001@user-uinj46g.dialup.mindspring.com>  4 In article <43ff885e$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "FredK"# <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:   M >"Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> 0 >wrote in message news:dtnjg5$81c$3@online.de...
 >> In article D >> <rdeininger-2302061823060001@user-uinj4ma.dialup.mindspring.com>,: >> rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >>L >> > HP still makes and sells single-CPU Integrity systems, and VMS supports >them.8 >> > They are not particularly hard to find or purchase.A >> > They are a lot less expensive than single-CPU Alpha systems. @ >> > They are significantly faster for almost every application. >>H >> What is the list price, approximately, of the least expensive Itanium9 >> system, including the following essential ingredients:  >>3 >>    o  twice the supported-minimum-for-VMS memory  >>
 >>    o  SCSI  >> >>    o  ethernet  >>8 >>    o  device to boot from (if non-SCSI-device needed) >> >>    o  bootable OS media >>* >>    o  documentation media (CD, DVD etc) >> > H >Dunno the price.  Go to HP.COM and configure a rx1620.  The base systemJ >comes with 1 CPU, built in SCSI, built in ethernet, built in DVD.  As forJ >memory... don't know the minimum offhand, but I'd put at least 1gb in it.4 >Configure it with a single 36gb (or whatever) disk.  I Minimum memory for rx1620 is 512 MB.  VMS runs fine with that amount, but ! more memory (almost) never hurts.   F The base system does NOT include a DVD drive, but if you configure the& system for VMS it's a required add-on.  H The management processor is a highly-recommended option on this system. J But it IS an option for price-sensitive customers.  Without the managementJ processor, you get a serial console port that's almost as user-friendly as the console on a microVAX II.    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:22:55 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)T Subject: Re: Entry-level Integrity Servers? (was: Itanium still not on alpha level!)$ Message-ID: <dtpp7v$ed7$1@online.de>  
 In articleA <rdeininger-2502060725300001@user-uinj46g.dialup.mindspring.com>, 8 rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:   K > Minimum memory for rx1620 is 512 MB.  VMS runs fine with that amount, but # > more memory (almost) never hurts.   A It might very well be that the minimum memory for VMS is actually D significantly smaller than the minimum which can be purchased.  ThatE wasn't always the case, of course.  ALPHA was 32 at one time (perhaps F even 16); not (7.3-2) it's 64.  (I'm running 7.3-2 on a DEC 3000/300LXD with 48 MB, which seems to be OK, though I did the installation on aG 192-MB system and swapped the system disk.)  Of course, more memory is   always good.  J > The management processor is a highly-recommended option on this system. L > But it IS an option for price-sensitive customers.  Without the managementL > processor, you get a serial console port that's almost as user-friendly as > the console on a microVAX II.   " I might actually even prefer that!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:49:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: Error message help?, Message-ID: <43FFFDEA.28E879FF@teksavvy.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > $ MCR NCL  > NCL> disable dtss  > NCL> delete dtss  C This is not enough to help the person. You need to tell him exactly H which files needs to be edited so that those commands are added in thoseB files to defeat what the default setup does when the system boots.  C Removing DECENET-5 and installing DECNET-4 may prove to be a better L solution which requires fewer system resources and is much easier to manage.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 09:13:42 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)  Subject: Re: Error message help?; Message-ID: <440011b6.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: > Martin Vorlaender wrote: >> $ MCR NCL >> NCL> disable dtss >> NCL> delete dtss  > E > This is not enough to help the person. You need to tell him exactly J > which files needs to be edited so that those commands are added in thoseD > files to defeat what the default setup does when the system boots.  : JF, if you read the message I was quoting from, you'll see  G > if you are not using DTSS (Digital Time System Service) then you will  > want to add: > $ > $ define/system net$disable_dtss 1 >  > in your SYLOGICALS.COM > I > on your next reboot - it will not try to use DTSS (Digital "equivalent"   > to NTP (Network Time Protocol)  H which is the proper method to prohibit DTSS starting on the next reboot.  G I was specifically answering to the request how to stop it on a running  system.    cu,    Martin --  @                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!3  Cetero censeo            | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F  Redmondem delendam esse. |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:                           | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 03:40:46 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: Error message help?, Message-ID: <440017E7.FEE6C58E@teksavvy.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote:& > > $ define/system net$disable_dtss 1    A OK Sorry. When I had dabbed into DECNET5, I had been told that to K disable that DTSS thing, I had to add commands in some files to disable it.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2006 06:33:32 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: Error message help?3 Message-ID: <gtpemi4v+y$O@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <4400376c$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: ^ > In article <43FFFDEA.28E879FF@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:E >>Removing DECENET-5 and installing DECNET-4 may prove to be a better N >>solution which requires fewer system resources and is much easier to manage. > O > No. It is not the "better solution". DECnet-Plus (aka DECnet-OSI or DECnet 5)  > is the better one.    Not if your concern is security.8 DECnet Phase 5 has no notion of SET DEFAULT ACCESS NONE.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:51:36 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: Error message help?< Message-ID: <Y9_Lf.59695$DM.56531@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  " > Not if your concern is security.: > DECnet Phase 5 has no notion of SET DEFAULT ACCESS NONE.  9 Out of curiosity is DECNET Phase IV supported on Itanium?  --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:06:38 +0100 ( From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.ch>F Subject: Re: Gartner wakes up company executives to X86-64 scalability+ Message-ID: <46bkl0Fa1kkhU1@individual.net>   
 Andrew wrote: F > I would agree, many organisations have low uitilisation across theirI > server estates not because they are badly run or because they chose the F > wrong platform but because they have month-end, year-end or seasonal2 > processing workloads which they have to satisfy. >   I LOL. When I was writing my response to JF I recalled a conversation with  G you on exactly the same topic a few years ago. And up you pop again :-)   I There are also applications which "don't get on together". One example a  H few years ago was that of an application accepting month end data feeds G from business centres around the world. AKA "The Dog", this was, ahem,  B "resource hungry" (did I tell you that sometimes I am a master of < understatement), and the other application was Risk Control.  I They started out life on the same development and testing clusters - the  C Risk Contol developers weren't getting a look in so they upped the  E priority of their processes, and so it went until we system managers  E insisted that they each run on separate nodes. Some time later, they  F were in production and accidentally ran together on the same node. We = didn't even bother looking at the resulting crash dump... :-)    Welcome back Andrew.  E > One reason why mainframes historically showed better utilisation in C > these situations was because IBM would rent capacity to customers H > allowing them to turn it on for the peaks and turn it off for the rest > of the time. >   , Thanks, I didn't realise that was so common.  I > Like my earlier example the improved utilisation that this produces has D > almost nothing to do with technology and is much more dependant on
 > finance. >    Agreed.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2006 06:02:51 -0800" From: chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk& Subject: Re: need help with Flakey VLCC Message-ID: <1140876171.847843.153560@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>    rsponholtz@gmail.com wrote: C > Well, I swapped out the SIMMs, and the machine still didn't work. C > After sitting (unplugged) for another day, the machine worked for H > another couple of hours, but now I'm back to the 1111 1011 error.  I'mD > kind of at a loss - I'm wondering if the motherboard is bad, or ifI > there is something else I could do.  It doesn't seem like there are any 2 > components that I could replace on the machine..  D Did you try installing just 2 SIMMs, and working up? Maybe there's a dry joint on a connector.   F Do you have anything standing on top of the VLC, like a heavy monitor?F I've remembered that this was a no-no, as it flexed the PCB and causedB it to stop, though a don't know the error code. We called this theE "washer bug" as DEC's FCO was a strategically-placed washer. When you B next get it running, try applying pressure to the board at various= places with a plastic rod and see if you can induce the halt.    Chris    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:13:48 +0000 (UTC) < From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)! Subject: Re: OpenVMS screenshots? ) Message-ID: <dtpe5c$f3e$2@news.BelWue.DE>   i In article <1140844741.961897.71030@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "as400" <vin42and99@yahoo.com> writes: = >Since I now know that OpenVMS may be the most secure UNIX OS D >around...Can anyone please provide me with a link to view some nice  >screenshots of OpenVMS? Please?  N OpenVMS is NOT a Unix OS! It is something on its own. A screenshot won't help.M Either you have just a simple prompt (per default it is a "$" sign but can be H anyhting you want) or some graphical interface called CDE. The latter is< available on various Unix platforms as well. Have a look at:"       http://www.hp.com/go/openvmsK Here look for the paragraph entitled "OpenVMS Information" and the subtopic M "Online Documentation". This should get you an idea about what OpenVMS really I is. Under the paragraph "OpenVMS resources" you'll find "Hobbyist License 2 Programs" in case you would like to give it a try.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 08:51:37 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> : Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!= Message-ID: <44000c84$0$67260$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:J > Which accomplishes what?  It still has to tell the attacker the passwordI > and I don't see where that wold stop someone from repeatedly generating H > new paswordds and thus overflowing the password history buffer anyway.J > Unless it then takes sysadmin intervention to turn it back off, in whichH > case you have come up with a whole new way to annoy the sysadmin.  :-)  D When the password history overflows you are forced to use generated E passwords, ie. you cannot chose your own password, but have to chose  G from a list.  The list is generated by a random generator, and chances  I are that it will not show you a password, you have already had.  Try SET  F PASS/GENERATE and see for your self.  Of course you can abort setting  the password with ctrl-Y.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 09:09:50 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> : Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!= Message-ID: <440010ca$0$78281$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Bob Koehler wrote:m > In article <43ff7185$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  >  > I >>When programming the login script of a captive account it is very easy  J >>to make an error such that there is a security bug.  Unix does not have J >>that problem because you can replace the shell with a program, and that H >>program can be written in a language without the many pitfalls of the  >>VMS command language.  >  >  >     You suggst maybe C?  > - Even C is better than VMS command language...   I If the captive account is used to run a single program, then I would let  ! Unix start that program directly.   F I would prefer to use a newer scripting language with a better string H handling.  Alternatively I would start from an existing shell, that has I already been security validated, and cut out functionality from that.  A  K third possibilitity is finding something on the Internet, that can be used.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:13:22 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) : Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2502060613200001@user-uinj46g.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <44000529$0$78280$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, Karsten $ Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote:   >Bob Koehler wrote: G >>    The two mode OS is a primitive and outdated (late 1960's) design. C >>    I haven't even heard Andrew claim Solaris has gotten past it.  > G >The idea of using several modes has also been given up, and VMS shows  I >why:  It is too difficult to add extra security by organizing and an OS  + >into a few more and more privileged modes.  > E >If you think that it is important that an OS should be divided into  J >multiple blocks, each with no more privileges than they need, then buy a H >Mac OS X computer.  It is based on the MACH kernel, which puts as much I >as possible into separate processes.  Yes, the Mac OS X kernel is a bit  I >slow because of that.  Ooohhh and the Mac OS X is normally considered a   >Unix dialect. > # >Oh, and IA64 has only two modes...    As does the Alpha CPU.  C The extra 2 modes for VMS are emulated on both Alpha and IA64, with 1 assistance from architected HW security features.   E Does this leave security holes?  I guess there's a non-zero chance...   I A bug in the VAX microcode that implements change-mode instructions could ' allow unintended access to inner modes.   I A bug in the Alpha PALcode that implements change-mode instructions could ' allow unintended access to inner modes.   H A bug in the VMS module that implements change-mode instructions on IA64- could allow unintended access to inner modes.   ? All these code modules are/were written by careful, experienced I engineers.  The programming environments, available test and debug tools, H and many other factors vary.  Which of the trusted code modules is least= likely to have security holes due to software bugs?  I dunno.    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Feb 2006 13:21:12 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!+ Message-ID: <46b3u8Fa7hc7U1@individual.net>   = In article <44000a92$0$67262$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, . 	Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >> And how would it stop a stupid user from typing into a program leftE >> running that faked all the right prompts?  Is it psychic?  All the A >> new user has to do is force a disconect so that he knows he is F >> talking to the real DECServer but we are talking typical dumb usersC >> who have no idea how any of it works and thus are easily fooled. F >> Short of haveing real short inactivity timeouts (some places do notE >> allow inactivity timeouts at all as policy) how do you prevent it?  > D > You give each user a badge that has a bluetooth connection to the C > terminal.  If the users badge is not near the terminal, then the  C > terminal should show a pause screen or force the user to log out.  > I > The same badge can of course be used for other identification purposes.   H And who pays for this new technology?  Schools (for the most part and usH in particular) are not profit making organizations like real businesses.C If cost is no object I can build extremely secure Unix systems that E would rival even VMS, but this is the real world and money is scarcer  than hen's teeth.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 25 Feb 2006 13:23:26 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: Plain truth is that unix/linux is NOT secure!+ Message-ID: <46b42eFa7hc7U2@individual.net>   = In article <44000529$0$78280$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, . 	Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:G >>    The two mode OS is a primitive and outdated (late 1960's) design. C >>    I haven't even heard Andrew claim Solaris has gotten past it.  > H > The idea of using several modes has also been given up, and VMS shows J > why:  It is too difficult to add extra security by organizing and an OS , > into a few more and more privileged modes. > F > If you think that it is important that an OS should be divided into K > multiple blocks, each with no more privileges than they need, then buy a  I > Mac OS X computer.  It is based on the MACH kernel, which puts as much  J > as possible into separate processes.  Yes, the Mac OS X kernel is a bit J > slow because of that.  Ooohhh and the Mac OS X is normally considered a  > Unix dialect.   D Not considered, it is Unix. The only thing left of MacOS is the user
 interface.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:26:30 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply), Subject: Re: question about VMS732_LMF-V0200$ Message-ID: <dtppem$ed7$2@online.de>  B In article <43FF8035.5774.100130AB@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle"! <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:    ? > On 24 Feb 2006 at 18:22, Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTH wrote: H > > By the way, has it been decided yet whether 7.3 will remain the last > > version of VMS for VAX?  > D > It was decided some time ago that 7.3 is the last VAX version.  I ! > suspect that decision is final.   I Has there been an official announcement?  First, 8.2 was on the roadmap,  5 then it was "HP is considering customers' needs" etc.   I What is the highest VMS version for Alpha for which 7.3 VAX is supported  
 in a cluster?    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:03:15 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply), Subject: Re: question about VMS732_LMF-V0200$ Message-ID: <dtprjj$knr$1@online.de>  
 In articleA <rdeininger-2502060947590001@user-uinj46g.dialup.mindspring.com>, 8 rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:   F > In article <dtppem$ed7$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de3 > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:  > L > >What is the highest VMS version for Alpha for which 7.3 VAX is supported  > >in a cluster? >  > V8.2.  > 
 > Soon, V8.3.   F OK, I'm still at 7.3-2, so I can consider moving to 8.2-1 or 8.3-x or 	 whatever.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:34:56 +0200 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> , Subject: Re: question about VMS732_LMF-V0200* Message-ID: <44007925@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>/ wrote in message news:dtnitk$81c$2@online.de... 3 > A new patch has been announced: VMS732_LMF-V0200.  > ! > In part, the announcement says:  > J > ---------8<------------------------------------------------------------- > = >      INSTALL_2 : To be installed by all customers using the ( >                  following feature(s): > ! >       -  PCL license management  > C >      2.3  Version(s) of OpenVMS to which this kit may be applied:  >  >      OpenVMS ALPHA V7.3-2  > ? >      2.4  New functionality or new hardware support provided:  > 
 >      Yes > H > 5  NEW FUNCTIONALITY AND/OR PROBLEMS ADDRESSED IN THE VMS732_LMF-V0200 >    KIT > 3 >      5.1  New functionality addressed in this kit  > % >           5.1.1  Per-Core Licensing  > 4 >                5.1.1.1  Functionality Description: > E >                The next version of the OpenVMS Industry standard 64 H >                operating system will introduce support for new type ofF >                licenses - Per-Core Licenses (PCL).  PCL licenses areE >                intended to support the next generation of Integrity  >                servers.  > H >                This change adds the ability to manage and generate PCLF >                licenses from prior versions of the operating system.J >                More details on PCL licenses will be available in the New4 >                Features manual of the new version. > J > ---------8<------------------------------------------------------------- > ) > Do PCL licenses exist already on ALPHA?  > F > I am certainly not using them.  I have not consciously installed anyI > software to do so.  CAN I install the patch?  (I prefer keeping patches I > up to date so that I don't have to remember to install them if I decide ; > to use a feature in the future which I am not using now.)  > F > It seems to be an Itanium-only feature; what's the point of an ALPHA > patch? > E > Since there was no equivalent VAX announcement, I conclude that the H > number of folks planning to migrate from VAX to Itanium, at least with  > no ALPHA in-between, is small. > F > By the way, has it been decided yet whether 7.3 will remain the last > version of VMS for VAX?  >   @ I considered posting a message here before we released the PATCH4 to clear things up....sorry for forgetting about it.  8 On IA64 we currently license by the number of CPUs, each8 CPU requires 1 unit, this is known as PPL (Per Processor: License) license. PPL licenses are only supported on IA64,: however, in a mixed arch cluster, you may be interested in< moving/copying/registering/deleting/generating PPL PAKs from( your alpha box, so the support is there.  E With V8.3 (IA64 only) we are going to license by the number of cores. 3 Each processor core requires one unit. PCL licenses 2 are introduced to support Montecito processors and3 new pricing. The LMF kit adds the ability to manage ; PCL licenses from existing Alpha systems. LMF will continue  to support existing PPL PAKs.   / Next week V8.2 & V8.2-1 kits will be announced.   4 And....AFAIK there is no change on our VAX decision,= which is TBD for now....I have not heard it was canclled, but 3 I'll check Monday morning and will get back to you.   	 Guy Peleg  OpenVMS Engineering    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:19:05 -0500 2 From: "Timothy Stark" <fsword7_nospam@comcast.net> Subject: VAX 7000 series: Message-ID: <a92dnRbKDcwMAp3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@comcast.com>   Hello folks,  L I was searching for some technical manuals and was able find them (VAX 6600 M and VAX 7000/10000) on vt100.net web site (manx page).  I noticed that later  K models like VAX 6600 and VAX 7000) now supports full 32-bit addressing for  D larger memory model (up to 3.5GB) and start 0xE0000000 as I/O space.  J Also, I was able find other VAX 7000 technical manuals execept I/O system F technical manual.  Does anyone have a copy of EK-7010A-TM (I/O system J technical manual) for online available? Also, I was able find XMI adaptor F manual that provides register access for DEMNA, CIXCD, etc. for other L operating systems like NetBSD, etc. I reviewed that manual and need to find H two manuals EK-DEMNA-TM, EK-CIXCD-TM and VAXBI system reference manual.   Does anyone have a copy of them?  L Is it possible to emulate VAX 7000 that supports different two processors - L NVAX+ and Alpha 21064?  Because I recently noticed that Charon-VAX provides  VAX 6000 series emulation.   Thanks!  Tim    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:22:58 -0500 2 From: "Timothy Stark" <fsword7_nospam@comcast.net>! Subject: VAXELN hobbyist license? 0 Message-ID: <5bGdnW9bA5vnPZ3ZRVn-vA@comcast.com>   Hello folks,  J I looked through OpenVMS hobbyist web site and noticed that a few layered G products are not listed in hobbyist license like BASEstar, VAXELN, etc  M compared with SPL master index docs?  Does anyone know that plan to add them  G to hobbyist license yet?  I searched through Google and found only one  M article on this newsgroup that mentions VAXELN hobbyist license (a few years   ago).    Thanks!  Tim    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:06:45 +0000 (UTC) < From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)3 Subject: Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD? ) Message-ID: <dtpdo5$f3e$1@news.BelWue.DE>   i In article <1140844548.307730.87790@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "as400" <vin42and99@yahoo.com> writes:  [...] 9 >I though the MOST secure OS would be like this in order:  >  >1. Mac-OS-X >  >2. OpenBSD  > B >OpenVMS???? Well.....I dont know about this...Care to explain how >secure it is?  J From my viewpoint as the head of a scientifi data processing unit: OpenVMS. is definitely more secure than the two above. M I have used and maintained quite a bunch of different operating systems (more J different than OS-X and BSD which are basically the same). But in order toO explain the security differences, I would need to know what you know, otherwise  this leads too far.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2006 07:19:47 -0800$ From: "as400" <vin42and99@yahoo.com>3 Subject: Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD? C Message-ID: <1140880787.897510.142140@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>    Really!!!!!!!??????   E I though VMS was a UNIX OS.....MMMM....thats a real suprise to me....    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2006 08:48:25 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com 3 Subject: Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD? C Message-ID: <1140886105.374775.221120@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G vms was designed with the intent NOT to repeat the mistakes of unix ... A vms has multiple levels of security.  with OpenVMS I can give you C the priviledges you need to run any app securely or access any file D without being able to gain access at a system or group level.  I canD lock you in a box with a captive account like ftp where you can onlyF run ftp and nothing else.  Mail is virus proof.  There are privilidges for C files, users, execs for single users or groups of users.  There are = ACLs for additional directory or file access that needs to be  specialized.  F vms is not unix.  There is NO root to gain access of.  You gain access to= only what I give you on a single to directory to group basis.   G Search this site for discussions with our friend Andrew formerly of sun  about G descriptors and how the vms kernel is superior and unhackable as proved A by defcon9 compared to any other os ... hackers routinely see the  message A "access violation error" when they try buffer overflows and other  tricks becauseB they do not work on the vms kernel even from outside products like tcpware G and multinet stacks.  See process.com for how every CERT relating to ip  stacks; just seems to return the above error and never affects vms.   G and finally, search the CERT counts for vms compared to every other os. C I think at last count there was 13 in the last 15 years, and all of 
 those were3 for local or internal processes like decwindows ...   E we have run all our mail and web apps on vms servers for over 7 years  now F without "ONE" virus or hack.  We sleep well at nights and can actually get C work done during the day w/o having to worry about the patch of the  day.  G I can go on and on about security and we have not even began to discuss 6 why it is the gold standard for clustering and uptime.  D Search this site and the others I mentioned and you will see why the vms A kernel is unhackable and superior to all other junk out there ...   A it was done right by a group of MIT grads, not MIT drop outs like  windoze  Bill.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:04:58 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG3 Subject: Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD? 0 Message-ID: <00A51D8C.29418C87@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <1140886105.374775.221120@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:  {...snip...}B >it was done right by a group of MIT grads, not MIT drop outs like >windoze >Bill.   Bob,  J Billzebub is an "intel"lectual fuckwit, he would never have been accepted I into MIT.  He was enrolled at Harvard -- a school that produces more than I its fair share of scumbags^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H law(lie)yers -- and he dropped I out from Harvard.  Is it any wonder that he's the scumbag he is after his F associating with the bumper crop of scum output from this institution?  0 Yes, I do loathe law(lie)yers if it not obvious.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:42:43 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> 3 Subject: Re: Whats MORE Secure? OpenVMS or OpenBSD? + Message-ID: <46bmvnFa7b86U1@individual.net>   7 On 2006-02-25 18:21, "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" wrote:    > [...] M > They (DEC) even renamed VMS to OpenVMS, just to show - like UNIX - openess, L > when they reached POSIX compliancy (must have been in the very early 90s).F                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  : Version 5.5 (VAX), end of 1991/begin of 1992, according toD <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/os/openvms-release-history.html>.   > [...]    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.112 ************************