1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 01 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 600       Contents: Re: CSWB gripes ! Re: DECW Server vs MWM priorities  Re: Fired Twice (a little tail)  Re: Fired Twice (a little tail)  Re: Fired Twice (a little tail)  Re: Fired Twice (a little tail)  Re: Free cool VMS Email account * Re: Java Applet pulled from VMS Web Server* Re: Java Applet pulled from VMS Web Server Offical colors for VMS logos  Re: Offical colors for VMS logos) Re: Powerstorm vs Elsa Gloria video card?  Re: RMS  Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions !  Re: VMS installation crash WASD and VMS upgrades  Re: WASD and VMS upgrades , Re: XML Parser OpenVMS 7.3-2 OSU Web Server., Re: XML Parser OpenVMS 7.3-2 OSU Web Server.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:05:46 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: CSWB gripes( Message-ID: <ei96eq$jjn$1@pcls4.std.com>  = On Oct 31, 12:06 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip ( Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:J > Two things bother me about CSWB.  Perhaps someone knows how to fix them. > I > First, when a new window is opened, it opens in the CDE workspace where H > CSWB is running AND the current workspace.  I want it ONLY in the CSWBJ > workspace.  (Suppose a select a link which brings up another window.  InG > the meantime, I do something in another workspace.  I don't want that  > new window there.)  C I reported something similar on Mozilla with Bugzilla long ago.  My C complaint was that when I started Mozilla it ignored the workspaces J parameter in DT.RESOURCES, instead starting it on the current workspace.  G Also a similar problem where some webpages do something (don't remember I what) that caused Mozilla to map that window to both the workspace it was I using and the current workspace.  The reply I got was essentially "That's  the way it is."    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:34:19 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>* Subject: Re: DECW Server vs MWM priorities, Message-ID: <4547c15b$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message2 news:4c7d6$4547a9a0$cef8887a$26658@TEKSAVVY.COM... > FredK wrote:L > > It is an old problem with VAXstations and abusive X11 coding by Mozilla. > J > Thanks. I had seen other oddities with the server going 100% before, butL > for Mozilla, it seems that any complex page with some animated gifs really > hogs it down.  > H > Is the real Alpha DECW$SERVER so different from the VAX ones that suchD > problems don't exist ? Or are they just hidden by the faster CPU ? >   K The VAX server is UNIQUE.  It split from the MIT source at R1-Beta.  It has L occasionally incorporated features from the MIT server - but the code itself# is... completely unique to VAX/VMS.   I > > As to priorities... the X11 protocol is deadlocking and if the server  does? > > not make forward progress...  you can see a lot of problems  > J > Fair enough. In my case, problem resolution involved resizing windows toC > hide the CPU hugging images, so having a slow MWM was noticed :-)  > K > BTW, what I found interesting is that while the server is 100% busy, if I K > try to use MWM to kill a window (CLOSE WINDOW or ALT-F4) nothing happens.  >  > J > BTW, if NODE1 has a windows displayed on NODE2, and NODE1 crashes,  what8 > dictates whether NODE2 keeps those windows displayed ? >   J When the server transport on node 2 notices the connection was broken, the windows will go poof.   L > Had a case where the alpha was shut down. The windows it had opened on theB > vaxstation remained visible. It wasn't until the alpha restarted
 decwindowsC > that those old windows were removed.  I found this most puzzling.   E IP connection?  It probably never noticed the connection was severed. A Happens when you TELNET into a system and then reboot it as well.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:18:22 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Fired Twice (a little tail)G Message-ID: <bsqdnbDVWq8SMtrYnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    FredK wrote:7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message C > news:nZidnVPnbYYfbdvYnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com...  >> FredK wrote: 9 >>> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message E >>> news:L-ednfaSEtK51dvYnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com...  >>>> FredK wrote: ; >>>>> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message G >>>>> news:w8OdnTL6l5rNn9jYnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com...  > D >> Ah - another substantive difference with the blogger in question.B >> You've demonstrated more than adequately over time that readingF >> comprehension is not your strong suit, so the fact that my range ofI >> interests (and comments) is moderately broad may have escaped you.  Of E >> course, since you're employed by a company, and work on a hardware J >> platform, whose faults I've felt deserved continuing exposure over moreH >> than five years now, it's perhaps not entirely surprising that you'reD >> inclined to view these efforts as my sole interests, when in factI >> they're more of a side-show (just one which I feel some sense of civic I >> responsibility to keep alive - an activity which even now continues to 5 >> generate significant interest here, I might note).  >> > K > Actually Bill, I follow your comments on your "moderately broad" range of M > interests in other forums.  Not really so broad (I can't imagine you have a M > lot of time for a really broad range of interest considering you must spend $ > endless hours writing your tomes).  E Nah - I'm relatively literate and quick-witted, Fred:  don't project  I from your own limitations (nor assume that you've seen anything like all  + the locales which I occasionally frequent).   (    Unfortunately your behavior is prettyL > much the same regardless of the subject.  You are right, others are wrong,) > personal attacks and insults are common   H I'm afraid that over the past 5 years I've grown markedly less tolerant B than I once was - it has a lot to do with the increasing level of G incompetence, arrogance, and out-right perfidy in this country, and my  5 unwillingness to accept it without pushing back hard.    ...   N > I am constrained in what I can and can't say in forums such as this - I have6 > to balance both personal and professional interests.  G That may excuse some lack of support for viewpoints that HP might find  G objectionable, but it in no way excuses being an apologist for them or  G disparaging others who have fewer perceived constraints on criticizing  6 them (unless that's now part of your job description).      Many of the threads I  > react to as "here we go again"  E If you're tired of the conversations, perhaps you ought to try to do  H something to eliminate the *need* for them rather than just sit on your  ass and complain about it.  &   and some "I wish I could say that inN > public" - but alas - very little of what you write do I agree with even when > you have a grain of the truth   H I'm not looking for agreement from the likes of you, Fred:  you're 'way 3 too far into your own comfort zone to be reachable.   %   - and pretty much that is what your N > stock-in-trade is - taking a sliver of fact and making "profound" statements > and predictions.  5 Or you're just too shallow to see very far into them.    > I > In any case, as much as I enjoyed pointing out the obvious (my original H > reply) - I actually do have work to do, and interests beyond computers  D Golf and Florida, IIRC.  Pretty much sums up your depth right there E (though I certainly wouldn't draw such a conclusion about *all* golf  I enthusiasts without additional evidence about them as individuals of the  - sort that I've seen from you over the years).      and L > the internet to spend time on rather than continue with this.  You get theM > last shot at me on this one... my experience is that you have a deep seated  > need to have the last word.   H Ah - yet another incompetent (and in this particular case also invalid) F generalization, but I certainly won't disappoint you this time, since # I've got a bit of summing up to do.   H It has become clear to me over the past 5 years (I'd like to think that I it was clear to a lot of people well before that, but like most people I  F 'had other priorities' until it really got shoved under my nose) that @ this country (or at least its leadership) and many of its large H corporations have abandoned anything resembling market-based capitalism B and instead sought to leverage existing power and wealth (and the G gullibility of the public) to gain additional power and wealth outside  I the marketplace.  In other words, they ceased trying to *earn* their way  H via legitimate competition (which, at least for those of us who believe D in capitalism with its worse excesses moderated out, is the tide of H progress which lifts *all* boats) and became leeches on the rest of the G world (including the majority of our own population) - much in the way  F that monopolies seek to leverage that decidedly non-free-market power  unless suitably constrained.  G People like you, by defending this leeching, become part of it - which  H is pretty stupid, since when all is said and done you'll be the victims H of it rather than the beneficiaries (but that's short-term 'vision' for G you:  must be the distraction of golf and Florida).  I really couldn't  D care less what happens to you as a result, but when the rest of the E world eventually decides to put a stop to this they aren't likely to  D differentiate between you and, say, me and my family - so I take it = quite personally as well as feeling more general obligations.   I That means that not only do I generally lack respect for people like you  H and feel that you're a blight on the planet (regardless of what use you < personally may be to VMS, especially since VMS and thus any I contributions you may make to it have become so unimportant now that any  H mitigating virtues there would be very minor ones):  I actively dislike F you for the effect that your ill-considered support of this situation 4 has (and will have) on the people I care about most.  F So if you're not going to shape up, then just fuck off and die, Fred: 3 if the barricades go up, I won't hesitate to shoot.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:07:00 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Re: Fired Twice (a little tail)8 Message-ID: <3bda9$4547badd$cef8887a$15257@TEKSAVVY.COM>   Neil Rieck wrote: E > I was also trying to point out that blogs are just another channel.   J They are far more than another channel. They are a marketing gimmick that I attracty the attention of Wall Street Casino analysts because of rumours  C that blogs may become so important that they will supplant network  J television for advertising revenus.  And blog system operators have every J incentive to continue this rumour because they know that they may hit the H jackpot when someone like Google/Yahoo decides to buy them for many big 7 buckaroos. (has the .com era been forgotten already ?).   L It is all about buzz. If you want a gazillion hits on your server, you want L to create buzz. And if it means that you have a million users each visiting B their onw page once a day, that is a million eyeballs per day for L advertising. They don't care that a blog has no other visitors than its own  creator.  K I think that perhaps myspace may have slightly different usage because the  L young kids may be able to get their won friends to use their own blogs. But K some radom J Q Public blog isn't going to attract much traffic unless they   post porn pictures :-)      < > anyone tell me why newspapers still print stock listings?   L Older people without internet access (with magnifying glass, of course), as G well as business men on the long commute by train to the office in the  % morning. Gives them time to catch up.   K Also, *IF* the newspapers are smart, they will only include companies with  K a huge volume and/or those with big variations in their stock price and/or  H those companies that made the news today (dividend announcements, press  releases etc).   (back to carving pumpkins :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Oct 2006 14:52:57 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com ( Subject: Re: Fired Twice (a little tail)C Message-ID: <1162335177.768941.169250@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: " > Roland's tail is continued here:. > http://logikal.blog-city.com/fired_twice.htm  G A good story.  Concepts I try to get others to consider before they try F "out-sourcing".  I've seen good examples of out-sourcing, but you haveE to do it for the right reason.  Don't do it to "save money", you have E to do it because it creates product and customer value, and keeps you " focused on your core competencies.  > Another mportant out-sourcing rule - don't outsource your core competency.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:27:14 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>( Subject: Re: Fired Twice (a little tail), Message-ID: <4547bfb3$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message    snip  G > So if you're not going to shape up, then just fuck off and die, Fred: 5 > if the barricades go up, I won't hesitate to shoot.  >   K I have to admit that you've surpassed yourself.  I've always suspected that I you had programmers disease (lack of social skills), were under-employed, 9 and a disgruntled ex-DECie.  But you are way beyond that.    Good luck with that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:41:09 -0500 F From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@islandco.com>( Subject: Re: Free cool VMS Email account9 Message-ID: <r2S1h.15337$Fd7.9755@bignews6.bellsouth.net>    I wouldn't know where to start  1 The email thing is in my opinion, secure and easy    Come on people - this is free ! 6 And I think VMSUSER(dot)com ins't a bad url for vmsers   dt  , "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message < news:1162230146.050901.168080@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... >  > Michael Moroney wrote:L >> Why not set up VAXNotes/DECNotes or whatever the final name was, and some< >> captive accounts to use it?  Or is that too last century? > 9 > http://www.encompasserve.org/conferences/VMS_new_1.html  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 06:50:27 +08003 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 3 Subject: Re: Java Applet pulled from VMS Web Server 1 Message-ID: <ei8jo4$4p0$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Arne,  I Thanks again for the replies/help and please persevere with me. (And just K before I get started, apparently Google labs' search page does exactly what K I'm trying to doe with sockets. I had a look at the html and it didn't make . a lot of sense to me. Can anyone else see it?)  5 You raise many issues; first the pjilisophical one: - 2 > But I would probably do it the other way around. > + > Java applet -> JavaScript -> HTML form !!   H Again, I'm not suffering from conviction in any of this but what I thinkK you're recommending is 1) HTML for paints the screen 2) Applet is activated H as literally a "Little application" 3) Applet runs through it's lifespanD altering the page and accepting input and doing socket i/o 4) AppletH completes and returns to other straight HTML (Normal Webserver exchange) stuff.  K Is that right? Is that what most applet users do? For no particular reason, J I thought most people create standard html forms for their interface and IE see an applet as simply providing additional infrastructure to assist ; navigation and functionality within the form. Not possible?    > True except for #3.    That's a bit of a bummer!   L Before I get lost in trying to guess the correct OO terminology Arne, let meH tell you what I want in plain english; "Variables"! Plain and simple oldC Variables. Whether they're Session Variables or Global Variables or J Decendants only of the Parent Method variables, I don't particularly care.2 Let's look at the following applet code example: -  9 Socket s = new Socket("mastercard.com", 303); // port 303 ' OutputStream out = s.getOutputStream(); ( PrintStream pout = new PrintStream(out);$ pout.println("hi from java client");  I Are you saying that there is absolutely *no* way to make "pout", "out" or F "s" available to the Javascript/AJAX/html after exiting the Initialize> method for the applet? Admittedly I've seen nothing other thanG read-only/input applet parameters, but is there no way that applets can " alter the environment around them?  7 What was that about 4 modes of protection for variables ' "parent/child/something/none"? Any use?   ? Any sys$get_streami(stream,wildcard) function/system parameter?   K How about Javascript->Instantiate Stream->Java Applet associate stream with  socket->Return to Java Script?  > OK, I'll stop solutionizing :-) Here's the requirement spec: -  C Create Socket Stream and whatever else in Applet Initialize method.  Use Ajax to watch iput field EitherJ     Ajax uses Javascript to access the Global Exported/Published interface to the stream to do i/o  orF     Ajax somehow triggers an event that invokes the applet into action  F Look Arne, I know I'm a bit thick when it comes to the OO and Java andI Javascript terminology and it must be frustrating for you at times, and I D appologize for that. But you do understand my question don't you? MyD frustration stems from the fact that what I'm asking for is straightI forward, bread-and-butter, programming 101 :-( In one hand I have an open J Stream, In the other a scripting language that is just gagging to get at aF stream, please show me how to be the dating agency and remove all this
 tension!!!  * > Java and JavaScript can call each other.< > Not quite. You can access the Java applet from JavaScript.  J So AJAX can call Javascript which itself can call Java but Ajax can't call* Java? (Is everyone else following this :-)  H OK, the *good* words I see here are "You can access the Java applet fromD JavaScript.". Pass in the partial employee name and the drop-down to populate? How 'bout that'   G Global Memory/pasteboards/variables it's good to talk! Who does all the ; mutexing with this threads and i/o? Is that the (an) issue?    Cheers Richard Maher  0 "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message1 news:4545f3cb$0$49209$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...  > Richard Maher wrote:# > >> AJAX uses JavaScript not Java.  > >>F > >> JavaScript and Java does not have much in common except 4 letters > >> in the name ... > > I > > Are you saying that the Interfaces to the Socket Methods contained in  the 4 > > Java Applet JAR file are not "surfaced" by AJAX? >  > Yes. > > > AJAX uses an XmlHttpRequest object to send HTTP requests not > real sockets.  > K > > 1) HTML page has an Applet tag so that, when the page is displayed, the ( > > Initialization method gets activated) > > 2) In the initialization, I choose to K > > 2a) Created a socket and connect back to the VMS server that is hosting  the E > > applet (but different than the UNIX server hosting the html page) L > > 2b) Ask for VMS username/password and send them to the Tier3 Application > > Server on that node + > > 2c) Recv the authorization success/fail J > > 3) A seperate AJAX thread in my browser is monitoring the state of theL > > Employee Name field and for every non-deterministic change I will Send aE > > "Lookup mf_personnel.employees message" to the server and refresh . > > "blink-free" the drop down under the name.K > > 4) When the browser is closed, the destroy method for the applet closes  the 
 > > socket > >  > > Alles klar?  >  > True except for #3.  > J > > Are you really saying that Javascript is incapable of accessing any of the = > > input/output streams that have been opened by the Applet?  > < > Not quite. You can access the Java applet from JavaScript. > 2 > But I would probably do it the other way around. > + > Java applet -> JavaScript -> HTML form !!  > 4 > >> AJAX is completely different from Java applets. > >>L > >> AJAX uses traditional web frontend technologies: JavaScript, HTML, CSS. > >>) > >> Java is a real programming language.  > >>I > >> There are security rules for JavaScript also, but the rules are much  > >> less well defined.  > > C > > Arne, you keep painting an either/or picture. Is it really that 
 clear-cut?9 > > Can Javascript really not call/evoke/incantation Java  > > applets/methods/procedures?  > * > Java and JavaScript can call each other. > < > Through a very old NetScape interface. STill working fine. >  > Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:40:20 -0500 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>3 Subject: Re: Java Applet pulled from VMS Web Server 7 Message-ID: <4547ecee$0$49205$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>    Richard Maher wrote:K > Thanks again for the replies/help and please persevere with me. (And just M > before I get started, apparently Google labs' search page does exactly what M > I'm trying to doe with sockets. I had a look at the html and it didn't make 0 > a lot of sense to me. Can anyone else see it?)  @ Weird - I thought Google was AJAX not Java (well - in some cases( they convert Java code to AJAX but ...).  7 > You raise many issues; first the pjilisophical one: - 3 >> But I would probably do it the other way around.  >>, >> Java applet -> JavaScript -> HTML form !! > J > Again, I'm not suffering from conviction in any of this but what I thinkM > you're recommending is 1) HTML for paints the screen 2) Applet is activated J > as literally a "Little application" 3) Applet runs through it's lifespanF > altering the page and accepting input and doing socket i/o 4) AppletJ > completes and returns to other straight HTML (Normal Webserver exchange) > stuff. > M > Is that right? Is that what most applet users do? For no particular reason, L > I thought most people create standard html forms for their interface and IG > see an applet as simply providing additional infrastructure to assist = > navigation and functionality within the form. Not possible?    It is possible.   D But if you want the applet to do everything, then why uses HTML form5 fields at all and not just fields inside the Applet ?    >> True except for #3. >  > That's a bit of a bummer!    Life is not always easy.  N > Before I get lost in trying to guess the correct OO terminology Arne, let meJ > tell you what I want in plain english; "Variables"! Plain and simple oldE > Variables. Whether they're Session Variables or Global Variables or L > Decendants only of the Parent Method variables, I don't particularly care.4 > Let's look at the following applet code example: - > ; > Socket s = new Socket("mastercard.com", 303); // port 303 ) > OutputStream out = s.getOutputStream(); * > PrintStream pout = new PrintStream(out);& > pout.println("hi from java client"); > K > Are you saying that there is absolutely *no* way to make "pout", "out" or H > "s" available to the Javascript/AJAX/html after exiting the Initialize@ > method for the applet? Admittedly I've seen nothing other thanI > read-only/input applet parameters, but is there no way that applets can $ > alter the environment around them?  @ The easiest way to keep state would probably be to keep the same< same web page and the same applet during the entire session.  9 I don't think that out/pout/s can be shared directly with  JavaScript.   9 JavaScript can call some Java code that uses them though.   6 But the more you write the more I think you should use= one big applet and only use the HTML for "application start".   9 > What was that about 4 modes of protection for variables ) > "parent/child/something/none"? Any use?   
 4 modes ??  8 If you are thinking about public, package alias default,; protected and private that that is a code visibility thing.   A > Any sys$get_streami(stream,wildcard) function/system parameter?   . I am not sure exact what it is supposed to do.   But I don't think so.   M > How about Javascript->Instantiate Stream->Java Applet associate stream with   > socket->Return to Java Script? > @ > OK, I'll stop solutionizing :-) Here's the requirement spec: - > E > Create Socket Stream and whatever else in Applet Initialize method.  > Use Ajax to watch iput field > EitherL >     Ajax uses Javascript to access the Global Exported/Published interface > to the stream to do i/o  > orH >     Ajax somehow triggers an event that invokes the applet into action  : AJAX is probably not relevant for you when you want to use sockets. Pure JavaScript.   ; JavaScript can call methods in the Java applet that can use  the socket.   > But if you don't want to submit the HTML form, then I think it9 is better to make the fields, buttons etc. in the applet.   H > Look Arne, I know I'm a bit thick when it comes to the OO and Java andK > Javascript terminology and it must be frustrating for you at times, and I F > appologize for that. But you do understand my question don't you? MyF > frustration stems from the fact that what I'm asking for is straightK > forward, bread-and-butter, programming 101 :-( In one hand I have an open L > Stream, In the other a scripting language that is just gagging to get at aH > stream, please show me how to be the dating agency and remove all this > tension!!!  4 I am not sure what you gain by involving JavaScript.  + >> Java and JavaScript can call each other. = >> Not quite. You can access the Java applet from JavaScript.  > L > So AJAX can call Javascript which itself can call Java but Ajax can't call, > Java? (Is everyone else following this :-)   AJAX is per definition:     JavaScript---(HTTP)---web server  	 You want:   # Java applet---(socket)---server app    or  9 JavaScript---(call)---Java applet---(socket)---server app      JavaScript-Java is both ways.   J > OK, the *good* words I see here are "You can access the Java applet fromF > JavaScript.". Pass in the partial employee name and the drop-down to > populate? How 'bout that'    Yes.  . But you could do the same in pure Java applet.  I > Global Memory/pasteboards/variables it's good to talk! Who does all the = > mutexing with this threads and i/o? Is that the (an) issue?   ) Multithreading is very very easy in Java.   B For simple one at a time access there are the synchronized keyword build into the language.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Oct 2006 10:55:14 -0800 From: tomarsin2015@comcast.net% Subject: Offical colors for VMS logos C Message-ID: <1162320913.947900.317120@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hello G I was wondering if theres any offical colors for the OpenVMS logo and I E guess for the unoffical(?) shark?  Like in the old days (DEC) does it 6 depend on what the logo is on or how you are using it? thanks phillip    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:32:30 -0600 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> ) Subject: Re: Offical colors for VMS logos 0 Message-ID: <4548073E.B44565EE@spam.comcast.net>   tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  >  > Hello I > I was wondering if theres any offical colors for the OpenVMS logo and I G > guess for the unoffical(?) shark?  Like in the old days (DEC) does it 8 > depend on what the logo is on or how you are using it? > thanks	 > phillip    Dunno 'bout "official"...   J Black and Purple seem appropriate. These are the colors typically used for funeral bunting and such.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:24:36 -0600 3 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> 2 Subject: Re: Powerstorm vs Elsa Gloria video card?0 Message-ID: <45480564.11E9D51A@spam.comcast.net>   Paul Sture wrote:  > + > In article <ei6elc$2ptc$1@pyrite.mv.net>, < >  Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> wrote: > # > > johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:  > >  > > > The chart L > > > should be correct since I copied it from the Ask the VMS Wizard (ATW - > > > bad acronym, sorry) #2041  > > I > >    And I happen to know who transcribed the contents of the cited ATW H > > topic from the PowerStorm 3D30 and PowerStorm 4D20 series controllerK > > manual into that ATW topic (2041); that table could potentially contain  > > transcription errors.  :-) > J > To err is human, but for a truly massive cockup, you need a computer :-)   ...or a Board of Directors ;-)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Oct 2006 19:27:05 -0800) From: "Sue" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: RMSB Message-ID: <1162351625.570949.76960@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  
 Dear Mike,  D You might also want to check out the OpenVMS Technical Journal there, are some articles on RMS written by experts.  4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/index.html  B as a hint you can do a search if you scroll down on the first page* which will search all the journals so far.  
 Warm Regards,  Sue    Mike wrote: A > Does anyone know a good resource where I can read up on the RMS  > database?  > 0 > Is it a commercial product or built in to VMS? > I > My company runs some really old software that is in RMS and I wanted to ? > learn if there are some tools to view or parse the data, etc.  > F > Currently we run a nightly job through Easysoft ODBC to pull the RMSD > stuff over into SQL Server but I would love to use some tools likeG > Attunity to view an manipulate the data real time from either Windows 	 > or VMS.  >  > Forgive my ingorance.. :)  >  > Thanks >  > Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:06:48 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>$ Subject: Re: Time change questions !+ Message-ID: <4qq6oqFo8l0gU1@individual.net>   1 On 10/31/2006 11:46 AM, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Stephen Hoffman wrote:  >>I >>>   There are applications around which do not react appropriately when  >>> the time changes - >> >> >>F >> However, when you consider that competing modern OS have automated,H >> sudden time changes,  new applications, often written for such OS andG >> later ported to VMS, would have been written to handle such a sudden  >> time change.  >>F >> If you have an old application being installed onto a fresh/new VMSF >> instance, then perhspas the onus should be on the system manager toH >> disable to automated time change. Wouldn't the vast majnority of apps% >> now survive a sudden time change ?  >>F >> If you do financial transactions and you really do not want to haveK >> transactions "back dated", then you need to a a lot to handle those time H >> changes and would have to be very aware of everything and disable theJ >> SYSGEN AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV parameter (and possibly use some app that tweaks; >> the clock rate to slowly drift it to lose/gain an hour).  > I > Modern O/Ss, including VMS, normally keep time in UTC.  The display of  E > local time is merely a convenience for the user.  Each user, if he  K > wishes, can have times displayed using his own local time zone.  Time is  K >  thus always monotonically increasing, it's only the DISPLAY of the time  9 > that bounces around; time stamps should be unambiguous.   3 I'm sorry, this last paragraph is NOT TRUE for VMS.   F VMS system time *is* the displayed time, no matter the timezone and/or@ TDF settings.  While there are various system services/LIB$/CRTL? routines to convert between system time and UTC, it is entirely @ incorrect state that VMS uses UTC as the internal (system) time.  G You can reason this out for yourself: a VMS quadword time is the number D of centiseconds since 17-NOV-1858.  There is NO TIMEZONE information@ carried in that definition.  Data files (SYSUAF for example, but@ database records as well) that store the time often do so as theD binary VMS quadword.  Given the late arrival of UTC on VMS, it wouldF break backward compatibility to change the definition of that quadword> to be defined as UTC (and VMS Engineering doesn't do that...).  D This does not mean you can't set the local timezone to GMT and avoidC the problems...  It is actually a human factors problem rather than E a technical one (all the really hard problems seem to involve humans,  not machines!).    	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:28:00 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>$ Subject: Re: Time change questions !( Message-ID: <ei8pmj$cfu$1@pyrite.mv.net>   Ken Fairfield wrote:  H > VMS system time *is* the displayed time, no matter the timezone and/orB > TDF settings.  While there are various system services/LIB$/CRTLA > routines to convert between system time and UTC, it is entirely B > incorrect state that VMS uses UTC as the internal (system) time.  G    Things here get particularly interesting with kernel-mode access to  A the system time as stored in system space.  Was this environment  D involving strictly user-mode access through any of various existing D APIs, it would be easy/easier to have changed this to UTC with time C maintained on a per-process level.  But with various hunks of code  F potentially going directly after quadword time values in system space I (without an API), implementing the bias involves hunting down everything  F that does this and changing it.  And there are second-level potential C uglinesses with now-process-level localized quadword time values...   G    There are details on the timekeeping over in the FAQ, including the  E various kernel structures and the clock interrupt sequences involved.   B    For those folks that are considering implementing OpenVMS anew A (whether from that other thread, or the FreeVMS folks), it would  H certainly make sense to replace the existing quadword with the (opaque) G UTC onto most everything that has the existing quadword.  Files, audit  E data records, loginout, etc.  But once you start making changes like  A this, compatibility gets rather more interesting.  For instance,  E consider applications that are tossing around now-localized quadword  F time values among processes, for instance... (If they had started out + tossing around UTC, all would be better...)   H    There is/was the Cyrano DateWarp package around (and likely others), D and there were many discussions of this particular area back in the E years leading up to Y2K.  I don't know what the DateWarp users might  E have encountered -- for various environments (and particularly those  F strictly in user-mode), I would tend to expect the product would have I worked nicely.  (DateWarp sought to intercept all the APIs that had time  H values (in or out), and a fair number of these APIs obviously exist.  I J don't know that it made any attempt to deal with kernel-mode time access.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:38:32 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>$ Subject: Re: Time change questions !+ Message-ID: <4qq8kaFo47caU1@individual.net>   1 On 10/31/2006 12:48 PM, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Neil Rieck wrote: @ >> "Paul Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote in message G >> news:paul.sture.nospam-A05B26.14242231102006@mac.sture.homeip.net...  >> [...snip...]  >>H >>> Recording the dates and times of financial transactions in GMT (UTC)K >>> seems the sensible thing to do. I know it ain't fashionable to say that G >>> NT got something right around these parts, but NTFS does store file  >>> dates in UTC >>>  >>> Paul Sture >> >>I >> Question: Does Windows actually change the system clock when shifting  A >> in/out of daylight savings time or just the view of the clock?  >>H >> The reason I ask this is that many modern UNIX systems (can) run the F >> internal system clock in GMT. A locale parameter is applied to the I >> system clock to show you an adjusted local view. DST adjustments only  7 >> affect the locale parameter, not the internal clock.  >>I >> p.s. Thinking about how to make OpenVMS work like this, commands like   >> $SHO = > VMS DOES work like this and has since, I believe, VMS V6.2!  > - > You DO have to configure it properly.  See:  > Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]  > B > UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM;1                 UTC$TIMEZONE_SETUP.COM;1 > UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM;1 >  > and RTFM.   @ I have to disagree with the assertion above, "VMS DOES work like@ this...", where I read "this" as being "internal system clock in@ [UTC]" and "A locale parameter ... adjusted to local view."  VMS9 does NOT to that.  See my other follow-up in this thread.   > I believe most unixes do use GMT/UTC as the system clock given> I first heard of that about 20 years ago.  One thing that unix got right, IMHO.  ? I'm less certain about Windows.  What I do know is that Windows C requires a "match", or correspondence, between the timezone setting C and the system time such that the system time equals the wall clock C for the given timezone.  This is because of the underlying Kerberos E authentication and needing to be able to match UTC timestamps between C the system and the Active Directory Server (Kerberos server), which B may be in a different timezone.  I don't know whether that impliesB system time is in UTC or local time; could be either, but the userE interface for the administrator when setting system time is certainly  in local time.  C And going back to Paul's comment about date/times and transactions, B etc., it's unfortunate that even today, new applications are beingB written which use the local date-time stamp as the database recordB index.  If it were only the database, we might be able to convinceB the developers to convert to UTC before storing, which would allow> us to let the systems jump their time at the time change.  ButC various related and external applications use date-time stamps from D log files, etc., and these are (and pretty much must be) the currentB local time (when did the tech do this or that?).  I think the ideaC of running the fabs on GMT/UTC has been around for as long as there F have been computers tracking the the fabs, but it has always been, andF will always be, rejected on the basis that it would cause the "humans" too many problems. ;-p  	      -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 03:13:23 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> $ Subject: Re: Time change questions !J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-01E3D8.03132301112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  + In article <4qq6oqFo8l0gU1@individual.net>, .  Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> wrote:  4 > It is actually a human factors problem rather thanG > a technical one (all the really hard problems seem to involve humans,  > not machines!).   D I can personally vouch for the human factor here. If I am regularly E working with someone in a different time zone, I can adapt, but when  ) it's an occasional thing, I find it hard.   E Easy when talking on the telephone, but when I find myself trying to  I work out when a problem occurred on a system in a different time zone by  9 displaying that system's time, it doesn't come naturally.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:10:13 -0700 & From: Jim Mehlhop <mjim1025@qwest.net># Subject: Re: VMS installation crash ( Message-ID: <45479185.9000100@qwest.net>   JF Mezei wrote: G > For what it is worth, my DS10L from the wonderful people at IslandCo  J > came with SRM version 7.2-1 dated June 9 2006 if I remember well. And I D > have not have a problem with crashing VMS during install or while $ > running with both 8.2 and now 8.3. > G > But I did not install VMS from CD, I installed it via an MSCP served   > disk on another node.  > K > I'd have to crash the node again to get the PAL code version though, and  ; > in doing so would lose this message before it is sent :-(    No you don't   $ an/sy  SDA> clue config   System Configuration:  ---------------------  System Information: I System Type   Digital Personal WorkStation              Primary CPU ID 00 A Cycle Time    2.0 nsec (500 MHz)                        Pagesize  	 8192 Byte    Memory Configuration: > Cluster      PFN Start      PFN Count           Range (MByte)    Usage G   #00               0            236            0.0 MB -        1.8 MB  
    ConsoleG   #01             236          81683            1.8 MB -      640.0 MB  	    System G   #02           81919              1          640.0 MB -      640.0 MB  
    Console  # Per-CPU Slot Processor Information: K CPU ID         00                        CPU State    rc,pa,pp,cv,pv,pmv,pl  CPU Type       EV56  (21164A) G PAL Code       1.20                      Halt PC      00000000.20000000 G CPU Revision   ....                      Halt PS      00000000.00001F00 D Serial Number  ..........                Halt Code    "Bootstrap or 
 Powerfail"J Console Vers   V7.2-1                    Halt Request "Default, No Action"   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Oct 2006 12:38:45 -0800( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> Subject: WASD and VMS upgradesB Message-ID: <1162327125.270452.45960@e64g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>  D Site running VMS V7.3 on a DS20e, with WASD V8.1 and OpenSSL V0.9.6E@ We're looking at upgrading (finally) to at least V7.3-2; V8.2 is5 possible but may hang on other software dependencies.   E I've never worked on a system with WASD before.  Is it likely to have E any problems if VMS is upgraded underneath it?  How about the OpenSSL E package?  All of our other sites are running SWS and the HP supported  OpenSSL kit.  G I'm also going to peruse the WASD support options, but figured this was A a generic enough issue/question that someone here might have some  insight.  Thanks!    Rich CCS    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:59:10 +1030 % From: Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> " Subject: Re: WASD and VMS upgrades) Message-ID: <45482296.6010809@vsm.com.au>    Hi Rich   F > Site running VMS V7.3 on a DS20e, with WASD V8.1 and OpenSSL V0.9.6EB > We're looking at upgrading (finally) to at least V7.3-2; V8.2 is7 > possible but may hang on other software dependencies.  > G > I've never worked on a system with WASD before.  Is it likely to have G > any problems if VMS is upgraded underneath it?  How about the OpenSSL G > package?  All of our other sites are running SWS and the HP supported  > OpenSSL kit.  L It should work just fine, but you might as well upgrade it when you do your K VMS upgrade.  The current version is 9.1.4.  You can use either OpenSSL or  2 HP SSL.  (The offical WASD home page uses HP SSL.)  I > I'm also going to peruse the WASD support options, but figured this was C > a generic enough issue/question that someone here might have some  > insight.  Thanks!   # See http://wasd.vsm.com.au/support/ 7 and http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/other/info-WASD.html    Regards,   	Jeremy Begg   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:00:26 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>5 Subject: Re: XML Parser OpenVMS 7.3-2 OSU Web Server. ( Message-ID: <ei8o2t$bvm$1@pyrite.mv.net>   Mark Daniel wrote: > Chuck Aaron wrote:C >> Do you know of an xml parser that will work with osu web server  / >> running vms 7.3-2 and where I might find it?  ... - > libxml2 is a generic XML parse written in C  >  >   http://www.xmlsoft.org/   I    I have ported various versions of libxml2, see the Freeware V8 distro  B for various of the bits.  <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware/>  E    With the next delivery of copious spare time (hah! :-) ), a fresh  B port of the latest bits available from over at xmlsoft might well H happen.  (I should back-fill the port back into the xmlsoft CVS, too... 	   Ugh...)   H    There are XML parsers referenced in the FAQ IIRC, and there are Java F and Apache tools available.  (I had problems with the Apache XML port I that is/was available for Apache/SWS, which is what triggered my libxml2   port.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:42:17 -0500 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>5 Subject: Re: XML Parser OpenVMS 7.3-2 OSU Web Server. 7 Message-ID: <4547ed62$0$49205$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>    Chuck Aaron wrote:J > Do you know of an xml parser that will work with osu web server running & > vms 7.3-2 and where I might find it? > I > Do you know where I might find a list of web services that will run on   > OSU web server?    What language ?   ) Java or C++ then you can pick and choose.   * C then look at the links posted by others.   Arne   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.600 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 H      ;     CA @   A  0   0   /                   CA 0   A  8      /                    M} CA 8   A  `   `      /                         wch_heading_underline;                  CA `   A  @   h/                       	{        CA @   A  8   `8   /                    r     CA 8   A  8   8   /                    -     CA 8   A  0   0   /                  CA 0   A  0   0   /                   CA 0   A  8   8   /                  -   J} CA 8   A  0      /                  ICA 0   A  p   p      /                         ! line_counter% = line_counter% + 1;                      CA p   A  @   `/                       H        CA @   A  @   P@   /                    8  H        CA @   AF H      /                  H             CA H   A  `   `      /                          print #out_ch :  chr$(0);               CA `   A  @   X/                       H        CA @   A  @   `@   /                    8  H        CA @   AF H   H   /                  H             CA H   A  @   @   /   
               Gr O  r     CA @   A  @   @   /  
                2пr >         CA @   A  @   @   /                   "#  H        CA @   A  @      /                     "#   ";;     CA @   A  X   X      /                    @ 0	  >  C #  ;                      CA X   A  @   h/                    #  H   C    CA @   A  @   h@   /                      H        CA @   A  @      /                        ); ";   CA @   A  X   X      /                    @ G	  >  A H   < H   +   +    ; CA X   A  @   h/                      H   A    CA @   A  `   `      /                          print #out_ch : tab(;                   CA `   A  @   /                        H        CA @   A  @   `@   /                    8  H        CA @   AF H   H   /                  H             CA H   A  @   @   /  
 
                f  O        CA @   A  @   @   /  
 
                  f     ;     CA @   A  0   0   /  	 	                ICA 0   A  8      /  	 	                Hr     CA 8   A  p        /  	 	                @ 
  >  A H   W H      H   S H       H   ;                  CA p   F      