1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 02 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 603       Contents:! Re: Another Vax/Alpha/VMS triumph " CA CEO sentenced to jail for fraud CDE Oddity (DECterm menus)% CDE: Colour Palettes in Style Manager + Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it down & Home based Internet research Jobs 7757/ Itanium model numbers {re F$getsyi("HW_MODEL")} 3 Re: Itanium model numbers {re F$getsyi("HW_MODEL")} % Re: Keyboard not recognised by apps !  Re: PIPE question  Re: PIPE question  Re: PIPE question (Resolved)+ Rdb Network Security - Multinet 5.2 Webinar / Re: Rdb Network Security - Multinet 5.2 Webinar 4 Re: Rich Marcello retiring to perform volunteer work Re: RMS  Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions ! 0 Re: VMS support people looking for answers here?0 Re: VMS support people looking for answers here?0 Re: VMS support people looking for answers here?0 Re: VMS support people looking for answers here?0 Re: VMS support people looking for answers here?0 Re: VMS support people looking for answers here?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 00:35:12 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com * Subject: Re: Another Vax/Alpha/VMS triumph0 Message-ID: <87mz7924e7.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ' frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon) writes:   ? > 	Um, nope, actually it was TOTAL downtime to the entire group B > of 911 dispatchers.  The dispatching system is what ties all the= > other components together; phones, radios, etc. like a hub. @ > Although it takes advantage of VMS clustering to provide quickD > failover, there's no way to do a phased switchout of the hardware. > Ain't it great?  :-)   That in Seatle?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:23:11 +0000 (UTC)- From: klewis@MAZDA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) + Subject: CA CEO sentenced to jail for fraud . Message-ID: <eidd2f$jo3$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  @     NEW YORK - The former chief executive of Computer AssociatesK     International Inc. was sentenced to 12 years in prison and was fined $8 J     million on Thursday for his role in a massive accounting fraud scandal5     at one of the world's largest software companies.   I     Sanjay Kumar, 44, had faced up to 20 years behind bars after pleading J     guilty in April to obstruction of justice and securities fraud charges8     at the company, which since has been renamed CA Inc.  7 Was that the man responsible for the Polycenter ripoff?   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 04:13:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: CDE Oddity (DECterm menus) 5 Message-ID: <35$4549b6c9$cef8887a$26674@TEKSAVVY.COM>   B I have set my CDE colour palette to have a light grey as the menu  background colour.  J On the alpha where CDE is running, DECterms come out fine, with the whole  menu bar in light gray.   H But if get a VAX to target a DECTERM on the Alpha, the window comes out F with only the menu items with a light grey background, and the unused I portions of the menu bar stay white. (and with a small white gap between    each menu item on the menu bar).  L If I run the TCPIP$DHCP_GUI app on the vax, targetted at the Alpha Display, 5 then the whole menu bar is in light gray as expected.     , Does anyone have any explanations for this ?  I This is a major showstppper which may force me to migrate to windows :-)  # :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-) :-)   @ BTW, the user running apps is the same, from the same SYS%LOGIN.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 02:34:13 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: CDE: Colour Palettes in Style Manager7 Message-ID: <a6897$45499f30$cef8887a$3724@TEKSAVVY.COM>   G Rough start with CDE. Unless you have an 8 bit card, it seems that the  F STyle Manager doesn't let you add/remove or modify any of the pre-set G colour palettes. (window colours etc).  All the buttons are greyed out.   L Took some research on the net to find some documentation on how to edit the , .DP files that make up the various palettes.  A http://www.iagu.net/docs/dec/SysAdmin/sysadmin_18.html#HEADING439   L For 24 bit displays, you choose "More colours to desktop". This gives you a , palette file that should have 8 lines in it.   You *can* use named colours.  % USRDIR:[username.DT.PALETTES]JF1.DP;9    Light Steel Blue
 #5C5C5C5CB8B8  Red 
 Light Gray White 
 Light Gray Green 
 Midnight Blue      line 1 : Active window border  line 2 : Inactive Window Border D line 3 : Unused  (but is used for background of Workspace  1 square)$ line 4 : Background for Text entries% line 5 : Background for applications. @ line 6 : Background for menus/panes  (also used for workspace 3), line 7 : Unused ( also used for workspace 4)# line 8 : Background for front panel     K So, basically, you need to MC DECW$SESSSION from a decterm, from there you  I go into the Setup/Window Colours, use the colour palette tools to choose  A your colours and hardcode them in the .DP file on the right line.   K Once done, you needto make sure you exit from the Style Manager and resrat  K it, at which point, it will see your palette file (or the mods you made to  K it). Once selected, you need to log off and log back in to see the changes.   H This is one area where the MAC is still light years ahead. Although CDE L does have one big advantage for the screen background that is equal to what K the MAC has.  (however, CDE only supports tiled images for the background,  ' you can't set some easy uniform colour.     8 I take it that there is no chance of the Colour Palette L widget/tool/applet/whatever will be update to allow editing/adding/removing $ of palettes on any type of display ?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 08:10:38 -0800 ( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>4 Subject: Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it downC Message-ID: <1162483838.693578.279400@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    bob.birch@gmail.com wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Rich Jordan wrote:H > > > Replaced the KZPBA, used a memory contact cleaner on the DIMMs andH > > > risers, reseated every removable cable and connector.  Still hangsI > > > after a little while.  Pulled the drive power and the KZPBA and its I > > > been running a self test since last night.  We'll see how its doing  > > > when I get home. > 3 > Never swap it out, fix it even it it doesn't make 0 > sense time or money wise. Anybody can swap out6 > a bad box but it takes skill, determination to fix a > tough problem. >  > Sounds weird but... 7 > - check the earth ground from the wall socket to both 3 >   chasis. Make sure there is a common chasis gnd. 9 > - use heat gun and chiller to make the problem go solid , > - run the box on it's side and upside down > - change console >  > > K > > Between the time you power on and the time it hangs, do you monitor the F > > temperature to see if it is changing ? Or is it perfectly stable ? > > O > > does the machine also hang if it stays iddle at the >>> prompt ? If you are L > > connected via a serial console, can you escape <esc><esc><esc>RMC to theO > > remote management console once the system has hanged ? You might be able to  > > see something there. > > N > > Once VMS has hung, can you just reboot and it will be fine for a few hours? > > ? Or do you need to power off o let the machine cool down ?   ? When VMS is running there's a job recording system temp every 5 E minutes.  It doesn't tend to change once the system has been up about E 15 minutes, and has never shown a change immediately prior to a hang. : I could tighten up the loop to get more frequent readings.  F If it hangs there is a chance that the system can be rebooted by usingE the RMC RESET command (so far I can always get into RMC), but usually D that only works once; the second reset flashes the test light but noB console info comes up.  Using RMC power off/on briefly will alwaysG reboot, and can stay up for several hours or hang during boot.  Staying G powered off longer tends to give a longer uptime before hanging but its  not really consistent about it.   D A quickie outlet tester says ground is good whether plugged into theG UPS, directly (via surge suppressor), or an APC power conditioner.  All F equipment connected to it is on the same circuit, and it has hung evenE with no external devices (network or disk) connected to it other than @ the console terminal.  I'll try to verify circuit-chassis groundG continuity tonight.   It has hung when connected to a VT420 or to a PWS  serial port.  E Neither the damaged grafoil pad, the CPU, or the heat sink showed any F sign of excessive heating (and there are some pictures of very toastedG looking DS10L CPUs out there still running).  Thats certainly not proof D the CPU wasn't damaged due to the bad grafoil pad or something else.  F One more test before getting a replacement.  I'll run it top open withB a big fan blowing into it to keep it cool; the fan will be runningE outside air (40 degrees tonight) into the box.  I'd love to take more F time to track down the real problem but my site (hobby/personal though@ it is) has been down too long; its time to get it running again.   Thanks for all the responses.    Rich   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 02:25:18 -0800 ' From: "althea" <alt.geronimo@gmail.com> / Subject: Home based Internet research Jobs 7757 C Message-ID: <1162463118.283097.135080@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   & Home based Internet research Jobs 7757  G We are now hiring home based workers to complete simple online research  assignments.  ) No selling - no recruiting - no adplacing    For details visit   P http://www.typeinternational.com/idevaffiliate/idevaffiliate.php?id=7757_33_3_69   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 17:14:06 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG8 Subject: Itanium model numbers {re F$getsyi("HW_MODEL")}0 Message-ID: <00A5E200.DB7295B7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ? Will all Itanium boxes return 4096 when requesting the HW_MODEL  as per F$getsyi("HW_MODEL")?  ? I've noted the EXE$GW_CPUTYPE is always zero on Itaniums I have > been on so I'm assuming the $GETSYI just feigns this valeu for
 all Itaniums.      --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 10:31:41 -0800 / From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> < Subject: Re: Itanium model numbers {re F$getsyi("HW_MODEL")}A Message-ID: <1162492301.310174.24360@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Brian,  A the following is mentioned in a 'Porting to HP OpenVMS Integrity' 1 presentation given by cmos a couple of years ago:   6 The hardware model for all IA64 systems is set to 4096' - HW model is set to 0 in E8.1 and E8.2   N http://download-uk.oracle.com/otndocs/products/rdb/pdf/rdbtf05_portvmsapps.pdf   --- , Volker Halle, Invenate GmbH, OpenVMS Support  # An OpenVMS crashdump analysis a day $ makes the Windows headaches go away.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:37:22 -0600 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>. Subject: Re: Keyboard not recognised by apps !@ Message-ID: <craigberry-9C215E.11372202112006@free.teranews.com>  7 In article <2cb81$4549a518$cef8887a$4862@TEKSAVVY.COM>, /  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   = > when I start applications such as TPU, I get the following:  >  >  > $ edit jf1.dp + > %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process JFMEZEI 2 spawned  > $ N >    X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "CANADIAN FRENCH LK401AC DP" to  > type Integer >  > N > If the Style manager showed that keyboard as available, how come other apps  > wouldn't recognise it ?   H I get the same thing on one of my systems, an XP1000, except in my case E it's the US LK401 keyboard.  I also cannot use TPU in character cell  E mode in a DECterm -- I always have to use /DISPLAY=MOTIF because the  2 DECterm does not recognize TPU's escape sequences.  B In my experience these problems only happen when the keyboard was H connected via a KVM switch the very first time VMS was installed on the D system or possibly had a cheap 2-mode PC keyboard attached directly B (don't remember for sure).  On systems that had an LK461 directly H attached to the PS/2 port when VMS was first installed, I have not seen G these problems.  Once you have the problem, no amount of fiddling with  H the keyboard type in the SRM console, upgrading VMS and DECwindows with D it, MCR SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE, or any user-configurable setting I ' have ever found makes any difference.     H My best guess is there is something configured on first install that is G not touched by upgrades.  If you find out what it is, I'd like to know.    --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 00:44:42 -0800 1 From: "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" <Bart.Zorn@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: PIPE questionC Message-ID: <1162457082.545822.138750@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   C In a pipeline segment, SYS$INPUT and SYS$PIPE have, by default, the  same value. < The explicit definition of SYS$INPUT is therefore redundant!  	 Bart Zorn    David J Dachtera wrote:  > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > > A > > I want to create a date string as input to a foreign command.  > > ! > > $ DATEPROG == "$DATE_PROD.EXE  > >  > > Online:  > >  > > $ DATEPROG > > DATEPROG> 1-OCT-2006
 > > (RUNS) > > DATEPROG>EXIT  > > $  > > 	 > > Proc:  > >  > > $... > > $ DATEPROG
 > > $ DECK > > 1-OCT-2006 > > EXIT	 > > $ EOD  > > $... > > > > > but I want to use a lexical to compute a date so I thought: > > if I used PIPE, the I could eliminate the intermediate > > command procedure file.  > > 0 > > Like this, but I know this won't work as is: > >  > > $...( > > D=F$CVTIME("-30-","ABSOLUTE","DATE") > > $PIPE (DATEPROD 	 > > $DECK  > > 'D'  > > EXIT
 > > $EOD ) > > $... > > @ > > but I cannot figure where to put the "|", ";" or "(" and ")"B > > to make it work.  It always leaves me prompted with DATEPROG>. >  > Try this:  > ( > $ D=F$CVTIME("-30-","ABSOLUTE","DATE")
 > $ PIPE - > 	WRITE SYS$OUTPUT D | - / > 	(DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$PIPE: ; DATEPROG)  > R > If the DATEPROG program absolutely needs the EXIT command (does not honor EOF on > SYS$INPUT), then ... > ( > $ D=F$CVTIME("-30-","ABSOLUTE","DATE")
 > $ PIPE -5 > 	(WRITE SYS$OUTPUT D ; WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "EXIT") | - / > 	(DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$PIPE: ; DATEPROG)  >  > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > ( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page# > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/  > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 07:03:31 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: PIPE question3 Message-ID: <0GVaMDxFeLQB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <45495EE8.4A53E066@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> writes: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: 
 > $ PIPE -5 > 	(WRITE SYS$OUTPUT D ; WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "EXIT") | - / > 	(DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$PIPE: ; DATEPROG)   C It seems rather silly to define SYS$INPUT as SYS$PIPE in a pipeline 2 since SYS$INPUT is already SYS$PIPE in a pipeline.   $ d = "asdf"E $ pipe ( write sys$output d ; write sys$output "EXIT" ) | -           9 _$     ( show logical sys$pipe ; show logical sys$input ) 6    "SYS$PIPE" = "_EISNER$MPA1745:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)7    "SYS$INPUT" = "_EISNER$MPA1745:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:58:34 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com% Subject: Re: PIPE question (Resolved) Q Message-ID: <OF1B7D2E84.A038D411-ON8525721A.0051BBCE-8525721A.00524448@metso.com>    Thanks David and Bart.  K I never got David's message, but it contains the methodology I was seeking.  I always forget J that with PIPE you sometimes have to set things up, then execute them (Put the data on the G stack, so-to-speak).  The comment about SYS$INPUT is of course correct.   I I have also found that with PIPE you can exceed the DCL input line length  if you string a log ofK commands together with ";" separation.  Is there a plan to help this, or is  it just a limit?  I use G the workaround of setting symbols and putting them it the PIPE command,  which seems to work.    -Norm   H "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" <Bart.Zorn@gmail.com> wrote on 11/02/2006 03:44:42 AM:   E > In a pipeline segment, SYS$INPUT and SYS$PIPE have, by default, the 
 > same value. > > The explicit definition of SYS$INPUT is therefore redundant! >  > Bart Zorn  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: ! > > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > > > C > > > I want to create a date string as input to a foreign command.  > > > # > > > $ DATEPROG == "$DATE_PROD.EXE  > > > 
 > > > Online:  > > >  > > > $ DATEPROG > > > DATEPROG> 1-OCT-2006 > > > (RUNS) > > > DATEPROG>EXIT  > > > $  > > >  > > > Proc:  > > > 
 > > > $... > > > $ DATEPROG > > > $ DECK > > > 1-OCT-2006
 > > > EXIT > > > $ EOD 
 > > > $... > > > @ > > > but I want to use a lexical to compute a date so I thought< > > > if I used PIPE, the I could eliminate the intermediate > > > command procedure file.  > > > 2 > > > Like this, but I know this won't work as is: > > > 
 > > > $...* > > > D=F$CVTIME("-30-","ABSOLUTE","DATE") > > > $PIPE (DATEPROD  > > > $DECK 	 > > > 'D' 
 > > > EXIT > > > $EOD )
 > > > $... > > > B > > > but I cannot figure where to put the "|", ";" or "(" and ")"D > > > to make it work.  It always leaves me prompted with DATEPROG>. > > 
 > > Try this:  > > * > > $ D=F$CVTIME("-30-","ABSOLUTE","DATE") > > $ PIPE - > >    WRITE SYS$OUTPUT D | - 3 > >    (DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$PIPE: ; DATEPROG)  > > C > > If the DATEPROG program absolutely needs the EXIT command (does  > not honor EOF on > > SYS$INPUT), then ... > > * > > $ D=F$CVTIME("-30-","ABSOLUTE","DATE") > > $ PIPE -9 > >    (WRITE SYS$OUTPUT D ; WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "EXIT") | - 3 > >    (DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$PIPE: ; DATEPROG)  > >  > > -- > > David J Dachtera > > dba DJE Systems  > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > * > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page% > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/  > > , > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > > & > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  > > - > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: & > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:33:04 +08003 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 4 Subject: Rdb Network Security - Multinet 5.2 Webinar1 Message-ID: <eicoah$adh$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   E Just a heads-up reminder about tomorrow's webinar on Multinet for VMS K security from Process Software. This is not Spam 'cos I don't know them and H they don't know me, and I'm getting nothing out of this, but you'd be anG absolute mug to miss it! (Anyway, I'm sure that Rdb Engineering will be F represented and that a white-paper will emerge in the fullness of timeK discussing the impacts and benefits for ODBC, JDBC, and RDB$REMOTE security 9 with Multinet. But it couldn't hurt to see for yourself!)   E Multinet has IPsec in current versions but 5.2 will no longer require J static-keys (or pre-shared secrets) Don't you want to be the master of theF universe and say "Secure this port#  to these servers!" or "Secure allJ communication between nodes A and B" with no SSL or SSH tunnelling? Do youL want to automagically stop your database-attach usernames and passwords from+ being sent in the clear, over the internet?   H Either way, you'll certainly want to secure your distributed Windows2000< MSDTC<->VMS hotTIP communication! Don't want any spoofing orL man-in-the-middle attacks going on there!!! And what about all your upcomingJ Java Applet/Socket Web applications? If your talking INETd servers with noE password then you're OK as is, but when you realize that you need the F scalability, functionality, and security of Tier3, then you'll need to) protect those Username/Password messages!   ! It's on tomorrow, so sign-up now!   # http://www.process.com/webinar.html    Cheers Richard Maher  H PS, If you're waiting for IPsec with TCP/IP from HP then don't hold yourL breath :-( Just like Row Ca$h with Rdb, when it comes to HP/VMS "If it ain'tJ RTR then it just ain't!". If this is the level of commitment that HP showsJ to the TCP/IP Services product then one could be forgiven for wondering if$ it's not time to change IP stack :-(   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 04:40:38 -0800   From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>8 Subject: Re: Rdb Network Security - Multinet 5.2 WebinarC Message-ID: <1162471238.574615.170490@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   E Unfourtunally 8pm GMT on a Friday I have other things to do. I expect E the webinar presentation will appear on their web site sometime after $ the event and I can look at it then.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:32:53 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>= Subject: Re: Rich Marcello retiring to perform volunteer work > Message-ID: <Vzl2h.146884$3D1.49995@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Ken Farmer wrote: $ > HP names new high-end server chiefQ > http://news.com.com/HP+names+new+high-end+server+chief/2100-1014_3-6131738.html  >   ' Rich's most recent Blog is interesting  E http://h20325.www2.hp.com/blogs/marcello/archive/2006/09/19/1630.html      --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 08:33:12 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: RMS3 Message-ID: <ECexx7a1YzMm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <1162392079.142928.48100@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com> writes:  > I > I would love to be a company hero and figure out a way to read the data I > out of RMS and put it directly into a realtime report but it looks like ? > the only way to go is a commercial (read expensive) solution.  >   H    Sounds like a job for Datatrieve.  Or a simple program.  All languageF    libraries on VMS use RMS for file access.  Just write a program to )    read the file and generate the report.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:58:01 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> $ Subject: Re: Time change questions !< Message-ID: <454a06f1$0$14829$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  ; "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message  - news:M8zptKAKkpuw@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > In article <45489e8a$0$14817$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>, "Neil Rieck"   > <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: >> [...snip...] >>E >> Most flavors of UNIX do work this because they were designed with   >> internet  >> connectivity in mind. > 4 > What on earth does that have to do with anything ? > H > VMS had the defect of a single time zone for all user processes beforeK > there were any TCP/IP stacks available for it.  The problem besets dialup  > users as well. >   F To elaborate, I kind of had my eyes opened about 10 years back when I M attended a course titled something like "Tru64 System Admin for VMS People".  L I remember a 30 minute lecture describing all the things possible on a Unix F network with technologies like NIS (Network Information Services) and L "Yellow Pages" which up to this time I assumed was only a directory service.  K In large networks (which sometimes cross time zones) a person can log into  L any UNIX work station and access his own work files in the remote location. K In most cases you are working from a storage area network (so the clock is  K not the issue) but you may optionally copy files to your local machine and  H then later copy them back. For this reason it was decided that all UNIX I machines in a network would be running the same internal clock (UTC) but  G that each user would SEE their own local time as defined by a timezone  M parameter in their profile. It is not a big leap to see what can happen when  ' networks are connected to the internet.   G So whether people are all logging into a single system or a network of  L distributed systems, it might make sense to set the clock of all systems in G the world to UTC (if possible). Where it is not possible or practical,  E you've got to provide pseudo timezone support for the UNIX languages  E (C/C++/Java/Javascript). BTW, the pseudo method is what OpenVMS uses.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:35:56 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>$ Subject: Re: Time change questions !) Message-ID: <eiddqe$1k5s$1@pyrite.mv.net>   I    OpenVMS stores a quadword offset from 17-Nov-1858, and does not store  F the system time as or in UTC.  The time value is whatever you choose. 7 (It could obviously be UTC, if that's what you choose.)   I    The time value is directly retrieved through most system services and  B most any of the existing low-level system calls, and directly set H through, and there are timezone offsets applied via various of the more B recent UTC-related calls and via libraries such as the C standard G library.  (In some ways, this scheme is the reverse of the way Unix is  B implemented in this area.)  On Unix, the low-level is UTC and the % various conversions happen higher up.   G    The classic off-by-one-hour is associated with direct access to SET  F TIME and/or a failure to use the provided procedures.  (It would have F been nice to consolidate all this into some core commands rather than I into the current collection of interfaces and tools, and to have had the  ? UTC values attached to all the objects and embedded in all the  C structures, but the chances of implementing that in any reasonable  + fashion basically ended back in the 1970s.)   G    In general, I've learned over the years that the more I learn about  H time, the less I really understand.  Most of what I've gleaned over the H years around time and time management (and that is specifically related I to OpenVMS) is included in the FAQ, and I've made a deliberate effort to  I stay out of trying to define this stuff.  If you want to learn more (um,  E less?) around how this time stuff works, wander over to the NIST/NBS  G site and to the other resources that are referenced within the OpenVMS  ? FAQ.  And then once you (think you) understand the terrestrial  C implementation of time, there's a whole 'nother layer with physics.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 01:57:53 -0800   From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>9 Subject: Re: VMS support people looking for answers here? C Message-ID: <1162461473.255422.210580@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote:( > has everyone who knows vms been fired? > ; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/10/31/2137885   D No, in the UK the people who have been doing second line support forF years are still in place and doing a good job. They are part of the HPA EMEA VMS CoC organisation which has people in some other european B countries. Second line support is provided by the VMS CoC to EMEA.  D In the Americas - I know not how it works as I have no dealings with VMS systems there.  B I log calls via the itrc site. This allows me to enter details etc9 rather than reading them out over the phone with possible E misunderstandings. I have been logging calls via a web site for years @ for this reason - nothing to do with the recent move of 1st lineE support. Before the itrc there was other web sites. Having logged the E call, sometimes talking to a person on the phone helps as part of the E problem resolution. The people I have talked to have been part of the  VMS CoC and based in the UK.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 06:13:54 -0600 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)9 Subject: Re: VMS support people looking for answers here? 3 Message-ID: <MmCofNrDU72I@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1162461473.255422.210580@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes: >  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote:) >> has everyone who knows vms been fired?  >>< >> http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/10/31/2137885 > F > No, in the UK the people who have been doing second line support forH > years are still in place and doing a good job. They are part of the HPC > EMEA VMS CoC organisation which has people in some other european D > countries. Second line support is provided by the VMS CoC to EMEA. >   I That's good to hear (and yes, once you actually get through to them, they  (VMS support) are good people).   @ Do you know if there are any plans to outsource UK VMS support ?  H The stories coming out of the US have me more than a little concerned...   Simon.   --  ; Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP K If Google's motto is "don't be evil", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 07:09:27 -0800  From: twnews@kittles.com9 Subject: Re: VMS support people looking for answers here? B Message-ID: <1162480167.278799.159500@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:( > has everyone who knows vms been fired? > ; > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/10/31/2137885   G Okay, out with it.  If anyone in this group has seen postings that they E believe came from support, then please expose them now.  Create a new F Google account and do it anonymously if you want.  I believe that thisG could happen, but as a daily reader and occasional poster I am a little G skeptical.  Tell us which posting s seem to be from support and why you E think so.  I spoke with the Computerworld guy and I sure did not tell E him anything like that.  This is a big accusation and if it is true I E want to KNOW that it is true.  Please give us as much of your case as  you can.  F If nothing else, expose the suspected "support poster's" posting name.F At least then we can challenge him.  May be only the cream of the cropE of newbie VMS support thinks to use COV for help.  If no one steps up E to give ANY evidence, I am inclined to believe that this was at least + and exaggeration, not an actual know thing.    Thomas Wirt  Operations Manager Kittle's Home Furnishings    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 07:33:02 -0800   From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>9 Subject: Re: VMS support people looking for answers here? B Message-ID: <1162481582.467808.43120@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  D I know of at least one example on itrc where a real customer problemG was posted quoting details from the customers emails. The customer, who A was researching the problem, spotted this. HP have been given the  details.  G there are definetley more newbies with Indian names asking questions on G itrc vms forum. Newbies are a good thing however it appears someone has D got a bunch of newbies in India supporting their VMS systems. It may not be HP of course.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 07:43:09 -0800 < From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>9 Subject: Re: VMS support people looking for answers here? C Message-ID: <1162482189.806412.258570@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    twnews@kittles.com wrote:  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote:* > > has everyone who knows vms been fired? > > = > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/10/31/2137885  > I > Okay, out with it.  If anyone in this group has seen postings that they 9 > believe came from support, then please expose them now.   ! I don't think it happens in c.o.v   G I _suspect_ it is happening in the hp-provided itrc forums, notably for  hpux.   Maybe not as much in the OpenVMSJ branchhttp://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=288C Sorry, no proof. There just seems to be a disproportional amount of B Indian named folks asking many question for randomish problems. Of8 course anyone can pick any name over there, but still...   fwiw,  Hein.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 08:59:03 -0800   From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>9 Subject: Re: VMS support people looking for answers here? C Message-ID: <1162486743.043141.215420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   G Don Tennent wrote that there is an interdependency between HP, computer > press (advertising revenue) and consultants specialising in HPG technology and therefore instead of bashing HP they should be helped to  fix the problem.  @ The tone of the article was interesting - it seemed to me he wasD approaching it as a 'critical friend' and could have said a lot more! negative stuff but chose not too.   D the issues with HP support are not limited to ill prepared people inA India using public forums to see help with the problems of paying 
 customers.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.603 ************************