1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 03 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 605       Contents:# DECW : Strange large font for menus + Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it down + Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it down & Re: Fortran 90 virtual memory problem. no mail from montagar?4 Re: Observations on Samba for VMS (CIFS Kit from HP)4 Re: Observations on Samba for VMS (CIFS Kit from HP) Re: PIPE question (Resolved)/ Re: Rdb Network Security - Multinet 5.2 Webinar 4 Re: Rich Marcello retiring to perform volunteer work4 Re: Rich Marcello retiring to perform volunteer work Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions !  Re: Time change questions !   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 03:42:24 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: DECW : Strange large font for menus7 Message-ID: <9f2c1$454b00eb$cef8887a$8532@TEKSAVVY.COM>   I When I login with the traditional desktop, I get a rather large font for  6 the menu bars. It is probably above 18 points in size.  H MWM picks up my customized settings (window decoration colours, and the K font to be used for the window titles). These are the same settings which,  M when used on my old vaxstation did not produce such huge fonts for menu bars.     4 When I login with CDE, the menus are in normal size.  L When going from VAX to Alpha (where it coexists with CDE), does the session J manager and/or MWM window manager look in additional places for settings ?  K I've looked in DECW$USER_DEFAULTS:*.DAT and DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:*.DAT for  F any font definition that may be associated with menus, but no success.   Any hints on where to look ????    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 07:55:23 -0800  From: bob.birch@gmail.com 4 Subject: Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it downC Message-ID: <1162569323.597078.322690@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Paul Sture wrote:  > In article? > <8660a3a10611022048rfd63286m8227a4aa74afbe40@mail.gmail.com>, 3 >  "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote:  >  > > >  > > Good tech support story- > > H > > The site where I cut my VMS teeth had an LP27 line printer- it beganO > > throwing error 38s, I believe- something like band gate board sensor out of N > > range- and there was no discernable pattern to when it would throw errors. > > M > > The Bell Atlantic guy adjusted the sensors, scoped boards, swapped boards N > > out-- it got to the point where they started coming in in pairs to work on > > this beast-  > > P > > And just at the point where they were going to throw in the towel and get meL > > a "new" printer, one of the field service guys slammed the gate a little  > > hard- and it threw an error. > > L > > This led to them carefully testing the wiring harness that went from theI > > frame of the printer around the hinge of the gate to the gate itself-  > > P > > It turns out there was a break in one of the wires in the harness, sometimes. > > it was closed, and sometimes it opened up. > > A > > But those guys just about went crazy trying to figure it out.  > >  > I > More in the vein of touching with your nose here... A hardware engineer = > I used to work with related the tale of a broken generator.  > H > The experienced guy who came to fix it brought along a new recruit whoD > had an unpleasantly superior attitude about his string of academicB > qualifications (the older guy had worked his way up from zilch). > H > Fix the generator, instructed the older guy. Three days later, the PhDH > had stripped it down and rebuilt it from scratch several times, and it > still wouldn't fire up.  > : > "What's that thing in the corner?", asked the older guy. > "A sledgehammer."  > "Why is it there?". > "I don't know. It was there when we arrived" > I > The reason it was there was to give the generator an almighty thump and 1 > free up the crankshaft. It worked first time:-)   > Great story...another similar one probably retold here before, was "The Steinmetz Effect": http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/steinmetz.html  B Charles Proteus Steinmetz was a giant of a pioneer in the field of> electrical engineering, who invented a commercially successful alternating current motor   ? GE had encountered a performance problem with one of their huge C electrical generators and had been absolutely unable to correct it. F Steinmetz, a genius in his understanding of electromagnetic phenomena,@ was brought in as a consultant - not a very common occurrence in@ those days, as it would be now. Steinmetz also found the problemE difficult to diagnose, but for some days he closeted himself with the D generator, its engineering drawings, paper and pencil. At the end ofB this period, he emerged, confident that he knew how to correct theC problem. After he departed, GE's engineers found a large "X" marked E with chalk on the side of the generator casing. There also was a note D  instructing them to cut the casing open at that location and remove? so many turns of wire from the stator. The generator would then  functionD  properly. And indeed it did. Steinmetz was asked what his fee would be. E Having no idea in the world what was appropriate, he replied with the A absolutely unheard of answer that his fee was $1000. Stunned, the > GE bureaucracy then required him to submit a formally itemized invoice. They soon received it.   It included two items: . 1. Marking chalk "X" on side of generator: $1.* 2. Knowing where to mark chalk "X": $999."  2 In bygone days at DEC FS, when you fixed a problem5 somewhat hard to explain, with a unique but expensive 0 fix, we used to put on the field service report:0   "Steinmetz effect, knowing where to put the X"     >  > --   > Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 10:33:45 -0800  From: bob.birch@gmail.com 4 Subject: Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it downC Message-ID: <1162578825.093671.132020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Rich Jordan wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Rich Jordan wrote:G > > > ends up warmer outside, I might also turn on the A/C and duct air K > > > directly to the DS10 inlets.  This is the last shot, may as well do a B > > > thorough job of it before spending real money to replace it. > > L > > If it is an not-obvious problem like a failed fan etc, then the odds areJ > > that one or more chips are getting near their death and any warming upG > > causes flakieness. If the only way to keep the system running is to N > > constantly pour liquid nitrogen on the unit, it may satisfy your hobbyists9 > > curiosity, but it wouldn't result in a viable system.  > > K > > Note: Once my old mac failed to boot. Not even some sad mac icon on the L > > display. Pretty scary. Turns out that removing the CPU daughterboard andN > > putting it back in fixed the problem. No idea what would have caused it toN > > fail between the time I turned it off and the time I turned it back on theM > > next day. Random glitch caused by the alignement of Venus with regards to  > > Alpha Centuri. > > M > > So sometimes, there are things that can be done to "permanently" fix some 0 > > glitch. But other times, it is a lost cause. > F > A powercycle is by far the most common time for hardware failures toC > occur.  Could be thermal, could be a capacitor or other component G > failing when the output voltage upsurges, etc.  Machines left on tend F > to last longest.  unfortunately this DS10L was left on all the time, > but failed anyway.  ) Have you looked at the caps on the mobo ? 3 Found this at sci.electronics.repair with some pics " of bad caps....maybe, maybe not...6 http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30328/article.html  & Motherboard Capacitor Problem Blows Up> Faulty electrolytic capacitors could be a ticking time-bomb in4 your PC. Here's how to identify the problem SymptomsB When these capacitors fail, the signs are generally quite obvious.? The top of the case may be split open or "bulged" upward and/or ? the can may be dislodged from its base (the rubber seal). There @ may also be an unpleasant smell and signs of electrolyte leakage nearby. @ Even more obvious is the muffled explosion followed by the blank screen. = Thankfully, we've heard that this failure mode is quite rare! = However, before catastrophic failure eventuates, all kinds of ?  annoying symptoms can occur. These can range from intermittent A boot failures to lock-ups in Windows. Eventually, the affected PC A will refuse to boot at all, perhaps even before the culprits have  showed themselves!   > H > Not a fan, and all removable parts/cables/connectors have been removedH > and reseated.  The cold test will tell the rest, although even if thatF > passes its still time to replace the box.  Its just nice to know the > cause when things break. >  > Rich   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 01:22:22 -0800   From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>/ Subject: Re: Fortran 90 virtual memory problem. B Message-ID: <1162545742.733111.101120@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  E For that size of virtual memory you should be using P2 region. Do you ) know the address of the allocated memory?   G How does the peak virtual size of the process compare with the PGFLQ of  the process?   ------------------------------    Date: 03 Nov 2006 19:33:28 +01002 From: Raimund Huemmer <raimund@baumann-online.net> Subject: no mail from montagar? / Message-ID: <86fyd0crd3.fsf@scylla.huemmer.net>   B I try to renew my hobbyist license (like every year in november). B The whole procedure seems to be o.k. and complete. It appears the A message that the license will be send to my mail-address, but no   mail is arriving.   C I tried it three times on the last three days with three different  ! mail addresses. No result as yet.   5 There are known problems with the hobbyist licensing?    regards  Raimund  --  * Life's too short to read boring signatures   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 05:27:40 -0800  From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk= Subject: Re: Observations on Samba for VMS (CIFS Kit from HP) B Message-ID: <1162560460.657589.59550@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E I guess that's down to the end-client/application, not down to Samba. G It's what I'd expect, since Windows (for example) doesn't know anything  about version numbers.   Steve    Paul Sture wrote: I > In article <eidi7101tnj@enews3.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  > L > > > In what ways weren't they working well enough for you? I did manage toN > > > get at NFS on VMS from the command line on the Mac, but never the FinderD > > > or application programs. I just got used to using FTP instead. > > J > > There was that problem with NFS, and IIRC, with Samba 2, it overwritesN > > files when I try to edit them from the Mac.  To make matters worse, (againN > > IIRC) each save, deletes the previous version, so the more saves, the more > > versions you trash.  > >  > E > Aah, I see now why I didn't notice that. I'm using the TextWrangler J > editor on the Mac (it's free, and IMO well worth getting). I have it setC > to make a backup before saving, and it generates unique names for 8 > successive saves. Not especially pretty, but it works. >  > --   > Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 08:45:47 -0800 - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> = Subject: Re: Observations on Samba for VMS (CIFS Kit from HP) B Message-ID: <1162572347.577694.211760@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  > Paul Sture wrote: K > > In article <eidi7101tnj@enews3.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: 6 > > >Paul Sture wrote: [attribution missing from post]N > > > > In what ways weren't they working well enough for you? I did manage toP > > > > get at NFS on VMS from the command line on the Mac, but never the FinderF > > > > or application programs. I just got used to using FTP instead. > > > L > > > There was that problem with NFS, and IIRC, with Samba 2, it overwritesP > > > files when I try to edit them from the Mac.  To make matters worse, (againP > > > IIRC) each save, deletes the previous version, so the more saves, the more > > > versions you trash.  > > >  > > G > > Aah, I see now why I didn't notice that. I'm using the TextWrangler L > > editor on the Mac (it's free, and IMO well worth getting). I have it setE > > to make a backup before saving, and it generates unique names for : > > successive saves. Not especially pretty, but it works. > >  > > -- > > Paul Sture > G > I guess that's down to the end-client/application, not down to Samba. I > It's what I'd expect, since Windows (for example) doesn't know anything  > about version numbers. >  > Steve   E But VMS/RMS does. If Samba is to be a replacement for Advanced Server F for OpenVMS and Pathworks then it should not change behavior at such a basic level.  A The inability of IA64 to replace and upgrade Alpha capability has A caused considerable confusion and frustration to clients who have - reached that need due to growth or age point.   ? The more work it takes to convert an installation from Alpha to E Itanium, the more feasible non-VMS options become. In fact, small and F often hidden incompatibilites can be much more costly to overcome than gross and glaring differences.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2006 23:32:20 -0800 1 From: "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" <Bart.Zorn@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: PIPE question (Resolved) C Message-ID: <1162539140.753940.167270@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Sorry David,  E I do not understand your example. It may have to do with the way TYPE G behaves. All I know is that in all circumstances that I used PIPE (both G inside a command procedure and interactive) SYS$PIPE and SYS$INPUT have 4 the same value, unless explicitly defined otherwise.   Regards,   Bart   David J Dachtera wrote:  > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > >  > > Thanks David and Bart. > > O > > I never got David's message, but it contains the methodology I was seeking.  > > I always forget N > > that with PIPE you sometimes have to set things up, then execute them (Put > > the data on the K > > stack, so-to-speak).  The comment about SYS$INPUT is of course correct.  > F > ...except in a DCL procedure where SYS$INPUT points to the procedureE > and SYS$PIPE points to SYS$OUTPUT of the previous PIPEline segment.  > N > You can test this yourself. Here's a little piece I call MORE.COM, though it' > really resembles "less" in some ways:    [ Snip ... ]   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 06:53:46 -0500/ From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 8 Subject: Re: Rdb Network Security - Multinet 5.2 WebinarI Message-ID: <8660a3a10611030353x7f1dd011wfc2e1541f96079aa@mail.gmail.com>   ) ------=_Part_24416_15710013.1162554826247 ; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   > On 11/2/06, Richard Maher <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote: >  > Hi,  > G > Just a heads-up reminder about tomorrow's webinar on Multinet for VMS I > security from Process Software. This is not Spam 'cos I don't know them  > and J > they don't know me, and I'm getting nothing out of this, but you'd be anI > absolute mug to miss it! (Anyway, I'm sure that Rdb Engineering will be H > represented and that a white-paper will emerge in the fullness of timeD > discussing the impacts and benefits for ODBC, JDBC, and RDB$REMOTE
 > security; > with Multinet. But it couldn't hurt to see for yourself!)  > G > Multinet has IPsec in current versions but 5.2 will no longer require L > static-keys (or pre-shared secrets) Don't you want to be the master of theH > universe and say "Secure this port#  to these servers!" or "Secure allL > communication between nodes A and B" with no SSL or SSH tunnelling? Do youI > want to automagically stop your database-attach usernames and passwords  > from- > being sent in the clear, over the internet?  > J > Either way, you'll certainly want to secure your distributed Windows2000> > MSDTC<->VMS hotTIP communication! Don't want any spoofing orE > man-in-the-middle attacks going on there!!! And what about all your 
 > upcomingL > Java Applet/Socket Web applications? If your talking INETd servers with noG > password then you're OK as is, but when you realize that you need the H > scalability, functionality, and security of Tier3, then you'll need to+ > protect those Username/Password messages!  > # > It's on tomorrow, so sign-up now!  > % > http://www.process.com/webinar.html  >  > Cheers Richard Maher > J > PS, If you're waiting for IPsec with TCP/IP from HP then don't hold yourH > breath :-( Just like Row Ca$h with Rdb, when it comes to HP/VMS "If it > ain't L > RTR then it just ain't!". If this is the level of commitment that HP showsL > to the TCP/IP Services product then one could be forgiven for wondering if& > it's not time to change IP stack :-( >  >  > I A few of the guys from my office (myself included) are going to watch it.    WWWebb  ) ------=_Part_24416_15710013.1162554826247 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   D<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 11/2/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Richard Maher</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com">maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi,<br><br>Just a heads-up reminder about tomorrow's webinar on Multinet for VMS<br>security from Process Software. This is not Spam 'cos I don't know them and<br>they don't know me, and I'm getting nothing out of this, but you'd be an  <br>absolute mug to miss it! (Anyway, I'm sure that Rdb Engineering will be<br>represented and that a white-paper will emerge in the fullness of time<br>discussing the impacts and benefits for ODBC, JDBC, and RDB$REMOTE security;<br>with Multinet. But it couldn't hurt to see for yourself!)<br><br>Multinet has IPsec in current versions but 5.2 will no longer require<br>static-keys (or pre-shared secrets) Don't you want to be the master of the<br>universe and say &quot;Secure this port#&nbsp;&nbsp;to these servers!&quot; or &quot;Secure all "<br>communication between nodes A and B&quot; with no SSL or SSH tunnelling? Do you<br>want to automagically stop your database-attach usernames and passwords from<br>being sent in the clear, over the internet?<br><br>Either way, you'll certainly want to secure your distributed Windows2000 <br>MSDTC&lt;-&gt;VMS hotTIP communication! Don't want any spoofing or<br>man-in-the-middle attacks going on there!!! And what about all your upcoming<br>Java Applet/Socket Web applications? If your talking INETd servers with no <br>password then you're OK as is, but when you realize that you need the<br>scalability, functionality, and security of Tier3, then you'll need to<br>protect those Username/Password messages!<br><br>It's on tomorrow, so sign-up now! <br><br><a href="http://www.process.com/webinar.html">http://www.process.com/webinar.html</a><br><br>Cheers Richard Maher<br><br>PS, If you're waiting for IPsec with TCP/IP from HP then don't hold your<br>breath :-( Just like Row Ca$h with Rdb, when it comes to HP/VMS &quot;If it ain't <br>RTR then it just ain't!&quot;. If this is the level of commitment that HP shows<br>to the TCP/IP Services product then one could be forgiven for wondering if<br>it's not time to change IP stack :-(<br><br><br></blockquote>y </div><br>A few of the guys from my office (myself included) are going to watch it.<br><br>WWWebb<br clear="all"><br><br>   + ------=_Part_24416_15710013.1162554826247--    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 09:03:55 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>= Subject: Re: Rich Marcello retiring to perform volunteer work G Message-ID: <24OdnZiHe77Q0dbYnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote:   ...   A >> An interesting tidbit that I stumbled upon today after having  F >> forgotten about it is that IBM is reportedly designing its (2009?) D >> POWER7 products to plug into (presumably high-end) commodity AMD G >> motherboards (reprising an old EV6 strategy that never bore fruit:   G >> IIRC that's one of the reasons that DEC licensed AMD to use the EV6  I >> bus for Athlon).  This might be interpreted to suggest that IBM has a  3 >> *great* deal of faith in AMD's SMP directions...  > ' > Don't you mean Alpha's SMP direction?   G Well, IBM isn't planning to plug POWER7 into an EV7 socket - and since  ? current on-chip Opteron SMP mechanisms bear only a superficial  H relationship to EV7's (different routing topology and memory handling - B not even the same type of memory), it's not clear that their next ( generation will be a carbon copy of EV7.  I As far as superficial resemblances go, one should not forget that POWER4  C was using on-chip routing and (indirect) non-bus-based NUMA memory  > access in 2001, well before EV7 was.  For that matter, so was L UltraSPARC:  EV7's main contribution was making it scale better and farther.   > K > The way I remember it, AMD didn't keep to their part of the deal.  Could  M > be wrong, but my memory is that it was just another nail in Alpha's coffin.   I I don't have any recollection one way or the other, but since EV6 didn't  G appear until after the Hudson fab had gone to Intel, one might suspect  I that commodity use of Alpha had already been abandoned as a goal by then.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 15:08:23 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> = Subject: Re: Rich Marcello retiring to perform volunteer work J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-0E9741.15082303112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  G In article <feednWrrPtAtVdfYnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>, *  Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   > I > I don't believe that we can place *all* the blame for both fiascoes on  J > management:  even engineers can be overcome by delusions of grandeur to K > the point where they lose sight of the fact that they're really supposed  K > to be providing a *service*, not playing Masters of the Universe.  But I  I > do believe that we can blame management for fanning such flames rather  < > than reining them in and directing them more productively. >   G A phenomenon I observed a couple of times in my early career is when a  H successful and growing company gets to the stage that it builds a fancy B new HQ. Somehow people take their eye off whatever was making the H company so successful. The new building can be a distraction in itself, E with everyone imagining that they are fully qualified architects and  G interior designers :-)  Then come the inevitable fights about who gets  G which office, parking spot, what furniture and office equipment to buy   etc.  H I'm just talking about relatively small companies here with head counts E in 3 figures, but your point that "even engineers can be overcome by  E delusions of grandeur to the point where they lose sight of the fact  F that they're really supposed to be providing a *service*, not playing / Masters of the Universe." is the common factor.    From:   - http://www.clocktowerplace.com/ourhistory.htm   G I see that "due to gradually declining revenues in the late 1980s and  G early 1990s,  Digital had begun downsizing its operations in the Mill  G in 1993.".  I conclude from that, that they avoided the "fancy new HQ"   trap I describe above,  H Can anyone point to something similarly disruptive that happened to DEC?   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 01:18:04 -0800   From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>$ Subject: Re: Time change questions !C Message-ID: <1162545484.453821.294620@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E parhaps the NTP server requests notification of TDF changes - I think @ this is possible via a system service. Then it can deal with it.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 07:43:59 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Time change questions !3 Message-ID: <KGZe8qdMqIXa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <cmo2h.79545$3x1.23711@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes: > H > Don't remember that and we certainly had a lot of FORTRAN and ran the J > system on GMT (being in the UK). Not saying there wasn't a problem just J > wondering exactly what it was. Mind you being a college and in Scotland K > none of the users would be likely to be sober enough to log in "near the   > beginning of the year" :-)  C    Our TOPS-20 systems were 24x365 operations and a FORTRAN program F    died one Jan 1 morning several months after an OS update.  I don't H    recall the specifics, but I think it involved a divide by zero inside    the library.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 07:47:55 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Time change questions !3 Message-ID: <CLC$Rulvhm4J@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <hi8kk2lm3hd5cvqvro4bllmaf9bcqmkh5f@4ax.com>, jls <jeffls-nospam@sbcglobal.net> writes: > D > Maybe I'm confused here, but I thought that the point was that theD > actual quadword value of "time" would always be the same, and thatG > only the displayed time would be different, depending on how you have ( > your particular process' timezone set. > G > If you were to convert this displayed time back to quadword value, it G > would seem that the conversion would need to account for your current E > timezone setting and come up with the appropriate UTC code to match  > that.   E    Traditionally VMS doesn't do it that way.  I've never seen or used D    per-process time zones.  If this is something new, I suspect I'll<    find out as I'm in the process of installing 8.3 at home.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 07:51:24 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Time change questions !3 Message-ID: <I7HpY$bRZjYw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <nJGdnefjU5taN9fYnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: G > Hey, Bob, what's the 'right thing' with respect to timekeeping for a   > spacecraft orbiting Mars?   E    Like aircraft, spacecraft just use UTC whenever they are.  Most of #    the ground systems use UTC, too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 11:28:14 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> $ Subject: Re: Time change questions !9 Message-ID: <5c6dnahbnszK89bYnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:e > In article <nJGdnefjU5taN9fYnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: H >> Hey, Bob, what's the 'right thing' with respect to timekeeping for a  >> spacecraft orbiting Mars? > G >    Like aircraft, spacecraft just use UTC whenever they are.  Most of % >    the ground systems use UTC, too.  >   H I'd guess that's what they do.  Wasn't my question though.  Emphasis on * 'right thing'.  A Mars day isn't 24 hours.  I It was more of a jab at any claims that there is only one 'right way' to   do timekeeping.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Nov 2006 12:28:46 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Time change questions !3 Message-ID: <BDJJQW6HCwty@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <eif9jg$8ss_001@s995.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > I > I'm trying to think which library routine would care about time of day.  > RAN?       My first guess would be DATE.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.605 ************************