1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 12 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 622       Contents:* Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS. Re: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS. Re: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS. Re: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS Re: OT: Hacking Democracy 7 Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600 ! Re: Suggestion for DIRECTORY /RFM  VMS VGA console sync problem Re: Where to get a cable?  Re: XFC size trimming ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2006 11:01:48 -0800$ From: "Mike" <mikegraffam@yahoo.com>3 Subject: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS C Message-ID: <1163271707.958092.100090@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hello everyone,   F What is the easiest / cheapest way to start playing with OpenVMS? I'veE had a simply glorious 15-year run with UNIX-like systems now, and can D say very happily, that I've never run Windows (ok, I dual booted DOS. and Minix on a 286, but that doesn't count :).  E But I've always been curious about VMS, and my purposes at this point B are completely for learning. I don't have any specific applicationG right now, and probably wont: at present, I maintain no desktop systems 
 of my own.  E I had a little Alpha-based DEC Multia that I ran Linux on a number of G years ago, before it gave up the ghost. I imagine that putting together G another Alpha is the best choice? What would the minimum system be? I'm G OK with a text-only interface; but playing with X on VMS would probably  be neat too.  F Also; what about emulator solutions in the short term? I travel a lot,C and my primary machine is a laptop (Linux/x86-64). It would be very G useful for me to have an emulated VMS. I understand that SIMH will boot < OpenVMS w/ TCP/IP support. Has anyone here done this? Is itsE performance suitable for learning (navigating the system by text, and  compiling C code, to start).  F Finally: what about manuals or books? A system command reference wouldC be quite helpful. Bear in mind, I don't even know the VMS analog to  'ls'. :)  G Any VMS Elmers that can offer some advice would be greatly appreciated.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2006 11:35:20 -0800) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> 7 Subject: Re: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS B Message-ID: <1163273720.693715.206970@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   Mike wrote:  > Hello everyone,  > H > What is the easiest / cheapest way to start playing with OpenVMS? I'veG > had a simply glorious 15-year run with UNIX-like systems now, and can F > say very happily, that I've never run Windows (ok, I dual booted DOS0 > and Minix on a 286, but that doesn't count :). > G > But I've always been curious about VMS, and my purposes at this point D > are completely for learning. I don't have any specific applicationI > right now, and probably wont: at present, I maintain no desktop systems  > of my own. > G > I had a little Alpha-based DEC Multia that I ran Linux on a number of I > years ago, before it gave up the ghost. I imagine that putting together I > another Alpha is the best choice? What would the minimum system be? I'm I > OK with a text-only interface; but playing with X on VMS would probably  > be neat too. > H > Also; what about emulator solutions in the short term? I travel a lot,E > and my primary machine is a laptop (Linux/x86-64). It would be very I > useful for me to have an emulated VMS. I understand that SIMH will boot > > OpenVMS w/ TCP/IP support. Has anyone here done this? Is itsG > performance suitable for learning (navigating the system by text, and  > compiling C code, to start). > H > Finally: what about manuals or books? A system command reference wouldE > be quite helpful. Bear in mind, I don't even know the VMS analog to 
 > 'ls'. :) > I > Any VMS Elmers that can offer some advice would be greatly appreciated.    Mike,   F Small Alpha systems are available on EBay and from various dealers.  A0 small workstation is quite an adequate platform.  C As to documentation, the full documentation set is available on the 5 OpenVMS www site (see http://www.hp.com/go/openvms ).   F SIMH is one option, and you should also check the current availabitity/ of the Hobbyist versions of Charon-VAX from SRI  (http://www.charon-vax.com ).   @ Hobbyist licensing is available for all three architectures, see http://www.openvmshobbyist.org  G Beyond the documentation set, many of us who have presented sessions on = OpenVMS have posted our sessions so that they are on the web.   $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:33:30 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> 7 Subject: Re: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS 5 Message-ID: <slrnelccsq.5bi.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   g In article <1163271707.958092.100090@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Mike <mikegraffam@yahoo.com> wrote:  > C > What is the easiest / cheapest way to start playing with OpenVMS?   = Given your specifications, it does indeed sound like SIMH and @ OpenVMS/VAX 7.3 would be the perfect fit for a 'portable' setup.  	 Cost: $0.   F Step-by-step installation and configuration of SIMH AND of OpenVMS can be found here:  : http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html  E See if SIMH might be in your distribution's package management system : (apt-get, emerge, yum, whatever)... but if it's not, then:   http://simh.trailing-edge.com/  G You need privileges to run it only if you want networked support due to D libpcap's own requirements for listening for packets destined to it.  C Otherwise, SIMH only takes seconds to build, pop in a suitable .ini 4 file, pop in a CD or use a CD image, and off you go.  G > I had a little Alpha-based DEC Multia that I ran Linux on a number of I > years ago, before it gave up the ghost. I imagine that putting together I > another Alpha is the best choice? What would the minimum system be? I'm   ? If you want to go the hardware route, decent hardware would be:   A Personal Workstation (PWS) 433au, 500au, 600au, XP1000, or DS10L.   = The XP1000 and DS10L both runs the Alpha processor of the EV6 B generation. EV6 is the last Alpha CPU that is still affordable forG hobbyist systems. EV7 and EV79 systems are some serious chunk of $$$ --  five to seven figures!  F PWS systems are EV56 (kind of between EV5 and EV6), and nice machines,C though a bit slower in comparison to EV6, but plenty fast for doing 8 things. I personally have a PWS 600au and like it a lot.  F Tip: do NOT get any PWS if it lacks 'au' in the model name because you need au for VMS support.  B If you want a reasonable starter system to learn with, get the PWS@ 433au. (You can always upgrade later on if you like this stuff.)  G The PWS machines are standard PC midsize towers, IIRC. Nothing unusual, F except that it's built well and contains an Alpha processor. Has slotsH and room for disks, so you've got plenty of expansion options. Also trueF of the XP1000, too. DS10L is a 1U system which means it doesn't really1 have much in way of expansion; keep that in mind.   G There's a eBay auction going on now for a 433au in the SF Bay area, and @ an incredible price -- just under $100 for the buy-it-now price.D Seriously a VERY good deal... you probably want to jump on this one!  D You'd also either buy a supported video card for it (the eBay system; doesn't have one) or hook up a normal serial console cable.   H My tip? If you aren't doing graphical stuff with it, then stick with theF serial console cable. It will actually be much easier to paste licenseB keys in for the initial OS installation this way. Not a huge deal, either way, really.   H You'd also want to buy more memory since the eBay system has 128 MB. YouH can find PWS memory for sale floating around online easily. A 256 MB kit is only about $30?  G I've got no relation to the seller and don't even know who they are. ;) E I'm just a very satisfied PWS 600au owner -- acquired from elsewhere.   H > I understand that SIMH will boot OpenVMS w/ TCP/IP support. Has anyoneF > here done this? Is its performance suitable for learning (navigating6 > the system by text, and compiling C code, to start).  F Quite a few people have. Works as advertised. Performance is certainlyF adequate. Won't be as fast as the commercial emulator (CHARON-VAX) but it's reasonable and works well.   G For compiling stuff, you really do want an Alpha or newer. SIMH is fine F for 'doing stuff', but somewhat a dog with CPU-intensive tasks such as compiling or starting up SSH.   H > Finally: what about manuals or books? A system command reference wouldE > be quite helpful. Bear in mind, I don't even know the VMS analog to 
 > 'ls'. :)  D Here's a reasonable attempt at documenting VMS and UNIX equivalents:  @ http://www.physnet.uni-hamburg.de/physnet/vms-unix-commands.html   VMS documentation set:    http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc  B The most critical single manual for you will be the System Manager; Manual, broken up into two volumes. It's got procedures for E administering various aspects of the system. (E.g. how to create user @ accounts, security option, filesystem options, tuning, debugging4 problems, printer queue administration, everything.)  D You might want to look at the User Guide manual first, though, for a# gentler introduction to VMS itself.   D And the VMS "shell" is DCL (Digital Command Language). DCL is prettyH good still, and yes, you can write DCL scripts. There's at least one DCLE manual with information on language syntax. You can also find lots of : DCL scripts online via web searches to see how it's coded.  I OpenVMS user communities -- places where you can chat and find more info:     	1. Here in USENET's comp.os.vms  1         2. The official HP ITRC forum (web-based)   @                 http://forums.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/home.do  !         3. Public access systems:   ?                 EncompasServe (aka DECUServe) -- just telnet to C                 eisner.encompasserve.org and follow instructions to 7                 get a free account created on the spot.   D                 Deathrow Cluster -- just visit this webpage for moreA                 information on their account use policies and how                  to get one:   ?                 http://deathrow.vistech.net/account-info.shtml    7 		At both places, there are NOTES conferences available 9 		for posting in. NOTES is a long-time VMS bulletin board  		style tool and pretty good.   ? You MUST also make a front-to-back reading of the OpenVMS FAQ a B mandatory reading list item. It's seriously excellent, and I stillH re-read it even to this day. It also has pointers to tons of information( and Q/A's on common issues or questions.    http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq  E You can also browse through 'Ask The Wizard' questions and answers if C you're bored or search through the ATW archives to solve a problem:   # http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/wizard   D Excellent VMS sites with contributions by key VMS engineers (whetherA current or former) and experienced VMS system managers and users:   . http://www.hoffmanlabs.org/openvms/index.shtml http://www.openvms.org  B At the hoffmanlabs.org site, there's also a good explanation about6 various hardware and other hobbyist-related questions.  A If you want to buy parts for VMS hardware, you can either find it G through eBay or through VARs that are very experienced with VMS-related " hardware such as Island Computers:   http://www.islandco.com   D Someone (owner?) from that VAR hangs out here, too: David Turner. SoF they're certainly not a fly by night kind of place, and handles ordersF ranging from individuals to large corporations or government agencies.H Unlike the typical VAR, they really know VMS hardware well and know what parts will and won't work.  F You'll want to secure a copy of VMS installation media. You can either purchase one for $30 from here:    http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/   F ...or discreetly ask if someone here may be able to assist with a loanB or copy offered your way. Doing the discreet query is probably the faster way of get going.  @ You probably also want to get the OpenVMS Freeware V8 CD images:  + http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/freeware/   - Very good stuff there and highly recommended.   D HP has very generously donated free base OS license and licenses forH MANY licensed applications. To be eligible, you only need to be a memberB of Encompass in your country. Membership is free if you join as an associate member:   ) http://www.encompassus.org/about/join.cfm   G Then once you're enrolled and at least a week has passed after that (so E data can be sent to the openvmshobbyist.org site administrators), get  the license keys at:  : http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/get_yer_licenses/index.html  H NOTE: you need BOTH the base OS license (specify VAX, Alpha, or Itanium)I AND the application licenses! It's too easy to get only one but not both.   C Once you've got everything done and everything gathered, off you go F booting a VMS install CD. Installation procedure is different on a VAXF than on an Alpha due to historical reasons, but still easy either way.  C Keep the questions coming! I'm pretty sure you'll do just fine. I'm B quite comfortable with multiple platforms including UNIX/Linux andB didn't find it to be difficult to learn VMS. Just took a while for things to sink in.   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:22:02 -0500 F From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <dbturner@islandco.com>7 Subject: Re: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS : Message-ID: <gar5h.16207$GU5.12114@bignews8.bellsouth.net>   Try here% http://www.islandco.com/hobbyist.html   F They're cheap, powerful and we back them with a 12 months same as new  warranty Can't beat that !    David     0 "Mike" <mikegraffam@yahoo.com> wrote in message = news:1163271707.958092.100090@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  > Hello everyone,  > H > What is the easiest / cheapest way to start playing with OpenVMS? I'veG > had a simply glorious 15-year run with UNIX-like systems now, and can F > say very happily, that I've never run Windows (ok, I dual booted DOS0 > and Minix on a 286, but that doesn't count :). > G > But I've always been curious about VMS, and my purposes at this point D > are completely for learning. I don't have any specific applicationI > right now, and probably wont: at present, I maintain no desktop systems  > of my own. > G > I had a little Alpha-based DEC Multia that I ran Linux on a number of I > years ago, before it gave up the ghost. I imagine that putting together I > another Alpha is the best choice? What would the minimum system be? I'm I > OK with a text-only interface; but playing with X on VMS would probably  > be neat too. > H > Also; what about emulator solutions in the short term? I travel a lot,E > and my primary machine is a laptop (Linux/x86-64). It would be very I > useful for me to have an emulated VMS. I understand that SIMH will boot > > OpenVMS w/ TCP/IP support. Has anyone here done this? Is itsG > performance suitable for learning (navigating the system by text, and  > compiling C code, to start). > H > Finally: what about manuals or books? A system command reference wouldE > be quite helpful. Bear in mind, I don't even know the VMS analog to 
 > 'ls'. :) > I > Any VMS Elmers that can offer some advice would be greatly appreciated.  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 08:36:24 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> " Subject: Re: OT: Hacking Democracy< Message-ID: <454de852$0$14829$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  5 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message  6 news:454de581$0$14829$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com... >  [...snip...] >   K The whole HBO program titled "Hacking Democracy" is now available for free    online viewing by clicking here: http://video.google.com/1 then searching for the phrase "Hacking Democracy"        ###    Here are two related links: 4     http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ (Bev Harris site)6     http://blackboxvoting.com/ (not a Bev Harris site)    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2006 13:13:44 -0800! From: "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net> @ Subject: Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600C Message-ID: <1163279624.282389.123330@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   A I compromised and dropped disks and external disk enclosures from E maintainence contracts a few years ago but kept the main system units = on contract. I keep spares and swap the disks myself. Saved a  significant sum.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2006 22:08:01 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: Suggestion for DIRECTORY /RFM, Message-ID: <455649c1$1@news.langstoeger.at>  h In article <a7dc8$45527dc0$cef8887a$22165@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:J >It would be nice to be able to get a directory of files and their record L >format. Since many applications now require STREAMLF, having a dir showing L >which files are StreamLF, Stream, StreamCR, Variable, Fixed, Undefined etc  >would be useful.   A While I can understand the wish for such an improvement, this can 7 be easily done with a (very) simple DCL command/script.   J OTOH, what I want as an improvement, is more difficult (for doing myself):  M I want every wildcard search to be able to use the reverse direction (Z to A)   D And to make this wildcard search work in every utility built so far,G it should be able to be controlled by a logical (and eventually also by A a qualifier like /REVERSE in all coming utilities like DIRECTORY)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:32:01 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: VMS VGA console sync problem 7 Message-ID: <7b914$4556a3d6$cef8887a$3210@TEKSAVVY.COM>    Environment:H DS10L ,  VMS 8.3. Radeon 7500 card. NEC Multisync 1980SX display. (LCD). Compaq LK462-AC keyboard.   F During the booting process, VMS seems to replace the VGA support. The + screen is "redrawn" and a new font applied.   K Normally, one doesn't place much attention to this since once DECW starts,  & this temporary console mode goes away.  F However, the problem becomes visible if you crash DECW and the dispay D reverts to that console mode and you start to use it (in VT52 mode).  L The NEC LCD display is unable to adjust to the VMS loaded VGA console. None E of the buttons to adjust the display function (eg: scaling mode etc).   H The display has a font which has some letters not fully white. And more I importantly, it has a large portion on the right which is clipped. (in a  : MON SYS display, this is just after the minute on the top.  K PRESSING <CTRL-P> not only gets me to the >>> prompt, but also removes the  K VMS console and returns to the firmware VGA console (1).  At that point, I  J can type CONTINUE, return to VMS and remain with the firmware VGA console.  I (1) That firware VGA console has the right syncing signals and I can use  K the LCD setup to properly scale the 640-480 etc etc.  So the full 24*80 is  L fully visible, and the letters are all fully lighted. No "faint" colours on I some letters. (this may have been due to the VMS console having improper  	 syncing.)   I (1) That VGA console, after pressing the CTRL-P is a more pleasant amber  I letters against black background. (with sme leftovers from the Microsoft   BSOD default background).     K Is there some SYSGEN parameter to tell VMS to NOT load its console driver ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:02:09 -0500 7 From: lbw2 <lbw2.2h4ufy@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> " Subject: Re: Where to get a cable?8 Message-ID: <lbw2.2h4ufy@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au>  $ The Grue - James T. Sprinkle Wrote: G > Where is a good place to get a resonably priced mmj <-> db9f cable? I  > justG > got a MicroVAX 3100 and it is just sitting there waiting for me to do  > something with it. : ) > 
 > The Grue *MMJ to DB-9 Female*  F This hooks a PC's serial port to a Digital MMJ device (such as a VT220? terminal).  Digital made an adapter called a H8571-J with these 	 pinouts:  ' -MMJ                      DB-9 Female-  A 1  Orange                1  Connect to pins 6 and 8 *and* White /  orange  " 2  Blue                  2  Green ! 3  White / blue          3  Blue  # 4  White / green         4  Orange  = 5  Green                 5  White / blue *and* White / green  A 6  White / orange        6  Connect to pins 1 and 8 *and* White /  orange   7  No connection  ( 8  Connect to pins 1 and 6 *and* White / orange   9  No connection     Use them all the time.     --   lbw2H ------------------------------------------------------------------------= lbw2's Profile: http://techiegroups.com/member.php?userid=689 E View this thread: http://www.techiegroups.com/showthread.php?t=120496    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2006 13:08:55 -0800! From: "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net>   Subject: Re: XFC size trimming ?B Message-ID: <1163279334.886223.85150@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  , what are the value of FREEGOAL and FREELIM ?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.622 ************************