1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 14 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 626       Contents: Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.1  Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.1  Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.1 5 Re: Can OpenVMS support Emulex LP10000 HBA on rx2600? - Re: DECC:  VAX 7.2 vs 7.3: malloc/free oddity - Re: DECC:  VAX 7.2 vs 7.3: malloc/free oddity * Re: DECWindows: Support for pseudo color ?( RE: DELL vs HP support: offshoring story( Re: DELL vs HP support: offshoring story+ Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it down . Re: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMSK Re: Itanium console:bypass its interpretation of certain control characters K Re: Itanium console:bypass its interpretation of certain control characters K Re: Itanium console:bypass its interpretation of certain control characters  Re: Most "classic" VMS version Re: Most "classic" VMS version Re: Most "classic" VMS version Re: Most "classic" VMS version Re: Most "classic" VMS version7 Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600 7 Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600 7 Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600 I Re: Problem with sys$system:AXPVMS$PCSI_INSTALL_MIN.COM (VMS V8.3, Alpha) P Re: Problem with sys$system:AXPVMS$PCSI_INSTALL_MIN.COM (VMS V8.3, Alpha) Alpha)& unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff& unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff* Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff* Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff* Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff( Re: VGA console freezing bug (8.3 alpha)( Re: VGA console freezing bug (8.3 alpha) VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: Where to get a cable? 6 Re: writing fixed size records with one shorter record  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 10:59:39 -0800+ From: "madcrow" <madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.1C Message-ID: <1163444379.078858.201910@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   A Cool, but I guess my number 1 question is: Why Mosaic? Is it just D beacuse that was the only browser that ever had VMS support to beginG with? How hard would it be to just port Firefox rather than continually  updating an antique codebase?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:09:38 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.17 Message-ID: <90b39$4558df27$cef8887a$9399@TEKSAVVY.COM>    madcrow wrote:9 > Cool, but I guess my number 1 question is: Why Mosaic?    I Same reason that LYNX still exists. And in the case of Mosaic, there are  J some web sites that are actually more usable than on modern browsers. And F you don't have to worry about javascript tricks. It starts faster and H consumes far less memory than other GUI browsers. And on VAX, it is the L only GUI browser available. And it is also great to test your own HTML code 8 to see how it looks without javascript and style sheets.  C I find the bookmarks to be more usable on MOSAIC (right click from  K anywhere, then select the bookmarks from hierarchical menu). The bookmarks  1 on Netscape/Mozilla require more mouse movements.   H Also, bugs on MOSAIC get fixed quicker than on MOZILLA.  George Cook is K doing a tremendous job maintaining MOSAIC and deserves an award. (Heck, he  . deserves an aware for just listening to me :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:34:36 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>   Subject: Re: ANN: VMS Mosaic 4.19 Message-ID: <tYidnR8MBuw52sTYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@libcom.com>    George Cook wrote:s > In article <1163444379.078858.201910@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "madcrow" <madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com> writes: D >> Cool, but I guess my number 1 question is: Why Mosaic? Is it justG >> beacuse that was the only browser that ever had VMS support to begin J >> with? How hard would it be to just port Firefox rather than continually  >> updating an antique codebase? >  > In no particular order:  > C > 1.  It's an hobby.  Plus it constantly requires me to pick up new C >     skills (not always a good thing since I know a lot more about I >     image dithering, color quantization, alpha channel processing, etc. $ >     than I really wanted to know). > D > 2.  It's the browser I use both at work and home (unless I need to% >     access a page with Javascript).  > I > 3.  It's fast, has a small system footprint relative to modern browsers K >     and its file menus work well on VMS (unlike the VMS port of Mozilla).  > H > 4.  Porting and maintaining Firefox would be hard for one person to do >     as an hobby. > F > 5.  The chances of ever getting Firefox running on VAX are somewhere$ >     between impossible and none.   > G > 6.  Anyone with a C compiler on VMS 5.4-3 or later can build, use and   >     modify it for local needs. > & > 7.  It is a decent VMS file browser. > D > 8.  The code base is small enough for one person to understand and >     maintain.    >  > 
 > George Cook  > WVNET    Damn!   F I like to think that I'll use whatever tool does a good job.  Firefox F and Thunderbird on my trusty old Digital PC with a 333 MHz Pentium II I and Windows 2000 Pro, along with an ISP that runs a news server gets the  	 job done.   B Yes, I'm waiting for this antique to die.  Strange to call a 1998 F product an antique while running various MicroVAX 3100 and VAXstation H 4000 systems.  :-)   The BIOS will not allow a boot disk over 8 GB, and 0 where does one find such a small IDE disk today?  H But the above has me almost ready to dust off the VAXstation 4000 model > 90 that has a video card and monitor and try out this 'hobby'.  K Here's to 'those who keep the faith', regardless of the indifference of HP.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:56:35 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net > Subject: Re: Can OpenVMS support Emulex LP10000 HBA on rx2600?' Message-ID: <Dd36h.531$v93.93@trnddc06>   / Rob Brooks <brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam> wrote:  > ray.chen@gmail.com writes:  G > > Does anybody have the experience with OpenVMS running on HP Itanium K > > servers? I have a Emulex LP10000 HBA which can be supported by HP-UX on F > > rx2600. But I am not sure if it is supported by OpenVMS running on > > rx2600.   & > Try it, and let us know if it works!  I > I have an LP9802 in an rx2600 that "works", but is clearly unsupported.   D > Note that the Emulex fibre channel adapters use a different set ofF > port drivers (FGE/PGA) from Qlogic (PGQ), so that it's possible thatO > the FGE and PGA drivers will disappear from some future I64 release (without  O > notice, of course, since their use is not supported).  I am not aware of that L > in the plans, but it could happen, since the use of the Emulex adapters is > not supported on OpenVMS I64.   K I've used LP8000 adapters on an rx2600 and rx2620.  As with the LP9802, the  LP8000 is unsupported. --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:03:53 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: DECC:  VAX 7.2 vs 7.3: malloc/free oddity7 Message-ID: <d93dd$4558c167$cef8887a$5574@TEKSAVVY.COM>    Bob Koehler wrote:D >    Looks like somewhere in your code somebody #define'd free to beI >    lib$vm_free.  Normally the compiler will replace free with a call to D >    decc$free.  I'd compile with /list/show=(include,expansion) and/ >    search the listing file until you find it.   G I did a CC/PREPROCESS=temp.txt. It does appear to include the #include  K directives. And in the temp.txt, the first occurence of lib$vm_free was in  K the line of code that was originally written as "free". In other words, in  F the output file, there did not appear to be any prior redefinition of  "free" to "lib$vm_free".  E Last night, I upgraded the compiler to get the new MOSAIC version to  E compile and I will see if that made a difference. (I suspect it made  F matters worse by messing with the 7.3 includes).  Compiling on my 7.2 4 workstation with the old CC 6.0 version worked fine.  J If the problem persists, I'll try the /list/show= as you mentioned. Maybe  this gives more information.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 15:49:30 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 6 Subject: Re: DECC:  VAX 7.2 vs 7.3: malloc/free oddity3 Message-ID: <GC3X7uiNgU4V@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <d93dd$4558c167$cef8887a$5574@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  > Bob Koehler wrote:E >>    Looks like somewhere in your code somebody #define'd free to be J >>    lib$vm_free.  Normally the compiler will replace free with a call toE >>    decc$free.  I'd compile with /list/show=(include,expansion) and 0 >>    search the listing file until you find it. > I > I did a CC/PREPROCESS=temp.txt. It does appear to include the #include  M > directives. And in the temp.txt, the first occurence of lib$vm_free was in  M > the line of code that was originally written as "free". In other words, in  H > the output file, there did not appear to be any prior redefinition of  > "free" to "lib$vm_free".  B    Running the preprocessor would tend to go ahead and produce the@    code after the macros are substituted.  You might not get the@    #define itself since further compilation does not require it.A    The translation from free() to decc$free() should not yet show *    up since the compiler proper does that.  C    Let us know what /list/show=(include,expan) gives you, it always '    solved these kinds of things for me.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 14:41:26 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> 3 Subject: Re: DECWindows: Support for pseudo color ? C Message-ID: <1163457686.678650.241810@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    FredK wrote:< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message3 > news:5585c$4558bfa6$cef8887a$5085@TEKSAVVY.COM...  > > FredK wrote:L > >> In theory, 8-bit can be simulated on a 24-bit display (does not need an > >> extension). > > I > >> I've thought about doing it in my copious spare time.  But it hasn't ( > >> risen to the top of the to-do list. > >  > > K > > Which would require less time ? Recompile Flight to support 24 bits, or 2 > > provide the 8 bit emulation for 24 bit cards ? > >  >  > Modify Flight. >   D Who is the keeper of the Flight source code?  Is there any chance it6 could be released on a Freeware distribution sometime?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:52:47 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 1 Subject: RE: DELL vs HP support: offshoring story T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401D7A96A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----B > From: Michael D. Ober [mailto:"obermd."@.alum.mit.edu.nospam]=20! > Sent: November 13, 2006 9:37 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: DELL vs HP support: offshoring story  >=20= > I find it interesting that HP snared their IT chief from=20  > Dell.  Dell's=20? > outsourcing customer support to India was their IT chief's=20  > idea. =20   " Where did you see this documented?   > When HP=20A > snagged him, Dell started moving their customer support back=20  > from India=20 A > because it wasn't working, but HP is moving their's to India=20  > now.  When he=20< > leaves for another company, HP will probably move their=20 > customer support=20 H > back to North America while that future company moves theirs to India. >=20 > Mike Ober.  
 [snip ...]  B Mmmmm.. Internal IT typically has zero to say about external Field5 Support decisions .. Totally different organizations.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:21:54 -0700 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>1 Subject: Re: DELL vs HP support: offshoring story 6 Message-ID: <4558e1f4$0$25777$815e3792@news.qwest.net>  L In a few places.  If I remember correctly, one of them was Information Week.   Mike.   3 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message  N news:FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401D7A96A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   > -----Original Message-----? > From: Michael D. Ober [mailto:"obermd."@.alum.mit.edu.nospam] ! > Sent: November 13, 2006 9:37 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: DELL vs HP support: offshoring story  > : > I find it interesting that HP snared their IT chief from > Dell.  Dell's < > outsourcing customer support to India was their IT chief's > idea.   " Where did you see this documented?  	 > When HP > > snagged him, Dell started moving their customer support back > from India> > because it wasn't working, but HP is moving their's to India > now.  When he 9 > leaves for another company, HP will probably move their  > customer supportH > back to North America while that future company moves theirs to India. >  > Mike Ober.  
 [snip ...]  B Mmmmm.. Internal IT typically has zero to say about external Field5 Support decisions .. Totally different organizations.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)   4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:19:47 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 4 Subject: Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it downJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-AD722B.00194714112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  G In article <87lkmg4oqq.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com   wrote:   > E > From the SW side. Yearsa go I was chasing an RSX driver bug of some F > sort.  I got about 3 time a day, `How long will you take to fix it?' > So on about day 3 I replied  > 
 > `5 minutes'  > 5 > `Oh great, we will be back fully running in 5 min.'  > 8 > `No, when I find the problem, THEN it  will be 5 min.' > 0 > Quiet  was the order of the rest of the day :) > D > I was wrong BTW, it took 3 min to fix, but another 36 hrs to find.  , User interruptions can be highly irritating.  > "Let's have a meeting to discuss progress." is a pet hate. :-)   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:54:14 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 7 Subject: Re: Easiest / Cheapest way to get into OpenVMS 9 Message-ID: <wdudnQuQvY4KIsXYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > Mike G. wrote:E >> VMS commands are verbose. Great for learning, but perhaps tiresome ! >> after they are in rote memory?  > H > After you have them memorized, you can abbreviate 99.9% of them to the > first 3 letters... >   H To be more explicit, DCL only looks at the first 4 characters.  you can I misspell a command, after the 4th character and it will still work.  For  C example, DIRECTRY will still work.  Each command needs only enough   characters to be unique.  @ Symbols can be set up to invoke commands with switches and less 0 characters.  As an example, I use the following:  @ $ DI            :== directory /size=all /owner_uic /protection -2                          /width=(file=25,owner=10)@ $ din           :== directory /size=all /owner_uic /protection -=                          /width=(file=25,owner=10) /modified   /since="-60-00:00"@ $ dit           :== directory /size=all /owner_uic /protection -I                          /width=(file=25,owner=10) /modified /since=TODAY @ $ diy           :== directory /size=all /owner_uic /protection -=                          /width=(file=25,owner=10) /modified   /since=YESTERDAY   A simple directory. ? A directory of 'new files', those modified in the last 60 days. $ A directory of files modified today.. A directory of files modified since yesterday.  I Customization of your working environment can be nice, but, when you get  C into another environment, you still need to use the basic commands.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:08:40 GMT # From: "FredK" <fred@nospam.dec.com> T Subject: Re: Itanium console:bypass its interpretation of certain control characters1 Message-ID: <Yo36h.2384$Ru3.778@news.cpqcorp.net>   - <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message  * news:00A5EA8A.7B79C4D0@SendSpamHere.ORG...= > In article <tl_5h.2354$1g3.1974@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"   > <fred@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >> >> >>- >><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message ( >>news:ej44hl$7gu$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...< >>> In article <00A5E854.06A9859F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- >>> @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: J >>>>I have an application that I started on the Itanium after I logged in  >>>>via K >>>>the console.  I need to type a control-B to get its attention but this   >>>>isJ >>>>the sequence used by the management processor to get one to its menu.  >>>>IsL >>>>there something in the console menu I can set to change the default to aA >>>>different sequence so that I can get out of this application?  >>>> >>> @ >>> Isn't control-B in VMS (at DCL level) the same as up-arrow ?J >>> If the management processor is intercepting control-B won't that make  >>> the 1 >>> console port pretty much unusable under VMS ?  >>>  >>>  >>L >>This is only an issue when using the management processor (MP) port as theH >>console.  If you absolutely positively need ^B - then use the COM portA >>(disable the MP port in the console path).  ^B is apparently a   >>long-standing 5 >>mechanism on HP servers and isn't going to go away.  >>F >>On the upside for DELETE vs Backspace, I have convinced the console 
 >>firmwareK >>people to treat both BS and DEL the same - which will eliminate the need   >>to9 >>do a SET TERM or change terminal settings when booting.  > 7 > Alleluia!!!  Is this firmware update available yet???  >    No.  But soon I think.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:34:51 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGT Subject: Re: Itanium console:bypass its interpretation of certain control characters0 Message-ID: <00A5EADA.DE832A7A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <gq36h.2385$Cs3.442@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >  >  > . ><VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message + >news:00A5EA8A.B67322EE@SendSpamHere.ORG... > >> In article <tl_5h.2354$1g3.1974@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"   >> <fred@nospam.dec.com> writes: >>>  >>>  >>> . >>><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message) >>>news:ej44hl$7gu$1@south.jnrs.ja.net... = >>>> In article <00A5E854.06A9859F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  >>>> @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:K >>>>>I have an application that I started on the Itanium after I logged in   >>>>>viaL >>>>>the console.  I need to type a control-B to get its attention but this  >>>>>is K >>>>>the sequence used by the management processor to get one to its menu.   >>>>>Is M >>>>>there something in the console menu I can set to change the default to a B >>>>>different sequence so that I can get out of this application? >>>>>  >>>>A >>>> Isn't control-B in VMS (at DCL level) the same as up-arrow ? K >>>> If the management processor is intercepting control-B won't that make   >>>> the2 >>>> console port pretty much unusable under VMS ? >>>> >>>> >>> M >>>This is only an issue when using the management processor (MP) port as the I >>>console.  If you absolutely positively need ^B - then use the COM port B >>>(disable the MP port in the console path).  ^B is apparently a  >>>long-standing6 >>>mechanism on HP servers and isn't going to go away. >>> G >>>On the upside for DELETE vs Backspace, I have convinced the console   >>>firmware L >>>people to treat both BS and DEL the same - which will eliminate the need  >>>to : >>>do a SET TERM or change terminal settings when booting. >>K >> Can you convince them to add an <ESC>c or <ESC>[m before transferring to J >> the booted OS?  I hate having to reset my terminal to get rid of all of0 >> the ANSI colors that were set by the console. >> > N >I gotta say I kind-of agree with you.  But it might be easier to jam it into  >the VMS bootstrap.   J I've patched the HP in the initial message from EXEC_INIT.EXE with <esc>c * to do this but, IMHO, I shouldn't have to.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:21:12 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) T Subject: Re: Itanium console:bypass its interpretation of certain control charactersZ Message-ID: <rdeininger-1311062221430001@dialup-4.233.128.77.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>  9 In article <00A5EA8A.7B79C4D0@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-   @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  ; >In article <tl_5h.2354$1g3.1974@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"  <fred@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >> >> >>. >><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message ( >>news:ej44hl$7gu$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...= >>> In article <00A5E854.06A9859F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-   >>> @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: M >>>>I have an application that I started on the Itanium after I logged in via M >>>>the console.  I need to type a control-B to get its attention but this is M >>>>the sequence used by the management processor to get one to its menu.  Is L >>>>there something in the console menu I can set to change the default to aA >>>>different sequence so that I can get out of this application?  >>>> >>> @ >>> Isn't control-B in VMS (at DCL level) the same as up-arrow ?M >>> If the management processor is intercepting control-B won't that make the 1 >>> console port pretty much unusable under VMS ?  >>>  >>>  >>M >>This is only an issue when using the management processor (MP) port as the  I >>console.  If you absolutely positively need ^B - then use the COM port  O >>(disable the MP port in the console path).  ^B is apparently a long-standing  5 >>mechanism on HP servers and isn't going to go away.  >>O >>On the upside for DELETE vs Backspace, I have convinced the console firmware  N >>people to treat both BS and DEL the same - which will eliminate the need to 9 >>do a SET TERM or change terminal settings when booting.  > 6 >Alleluia!!!  Is this firmware update available yet???  G The only piece that currently supports the DELETE key is the Management  Processor on rx3600 and rx6600.   2 What system(s) are you specifically interested in?  G Customers are allowed to send requests directly to the firmware folks.  J Customers requests have more influence on priorities than do requests from
 OS people.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:05:49 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>' Subject: Re: Most "classic" VMS version 1 Message-ID: <xe46h.2390$yt3.798@news.cpqcorp.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:e > In article <wdudnQqQvY5-XcXYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:    >>F >>At the time it was signed do you think anyone would have imagined a  >>"successor corporation"? >  > E > That is what lawyers are for, to consider legal possibilties rather  > than technical probabilities.   G Given that home mortgages have language for banks being sold or simply  I selling the mortgage to another bank, the "successor or assignee" phrase  $ is pretty common in the legal world.   --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 13:42:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Most "classic" VMS version 3 Message-ID: <I3LbtvNt4EFV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <wdudnQqQvY5-XcXYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> In article <rdeininger-1311060231460001@dialup-4.233.173.63.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>, rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes: C >>> In article <8e78$45550466$cef8887a$7042@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei ) >>> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >>>  >>>> Chris Scheers wrote: K >>>>> Technically, I believe it was Motif which removed Display Postscript.  >>>>J >>>> Nop. Display Postscript was a X windows EXTENSION implemented at the  >>>> DECW$SERVER level.  >>>>N >>>> It was not removed by the Motif people. It was removed by Compaq who did < >>>> not feel like continuing the relationship with Adobe.  K >>> Compaq didn't have a license from Adobe to provide Display Postscript.  M >>> Adobe stopped licensing Display Postscript.  I don't think Compaq had any  >>> choice in the matter.  >>  H >> In particular, when DEC signed the Display Postscript contract it didG >> not have a clause licensing "successor corporations".  I do not know G >> whether it was discussed at the time -- I suppose the price for such = >> a clause might have been high, for fear IBM would buy DEC.  > F > At the time it was signed do you think anyone would have imagined a  > "successor corporation"?  C That is what lawyers are for, to consider legal possibilties rather  than technical probabilities.  --  N ==============================================================================0 DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -- 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:20:28 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ' Subject: Re: Most "classic" VMS version J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-85A152.23202813112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  G In article <87y7qjb1xg.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com   wrote:  < > Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> writes: > G > >    The earliest distros were available on either magtape or on RX02 C > > eight inch floppy or on a disk pack.  CDs arrived over a decade 
 > > later. > H > And RX50s. You have not lived until you have installed VMS onto a 8200F > from a LARGE pile of RX50s... It super sucks when this is onto a HSC9 > disk in a room of running machines, but the manager....   C An  11/730 with V3.n in my case, so probably not so many floppies.  G Horribly under configured; I couldn't see what practical use they were   going to put it to.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:26:55 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>' Subject: Re: Most "classic" VMS version ( Message-ID: <ejav00$jsl$1@pyrite.mv.net>   Paul Sture wrote: I > In article <87y7qjb1xg.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com   > wrote: > = >> Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> writes:  >>G >>>    The earliest distros were available on either magtape or on RX02 C >>> eight inch floppy or on a disk pack.  CDs arrived over a decade 
 >>> later.I >> And RX50s. You have not lived until you have installed VMS onto a 8200 G >> from a LARGE pile of RX50s... It super sucks when this is onto a HSC : >> disk in a room of running machines, but the manager.... > E > An  11/730 with V3.n in my case, so probably not so many floppies.  I > Horribly under configured; I couldn't see what practical use they were   > going to put it to.       From memory...   E    The RL02 and RX50 kits were comparatively late(r) to the game, as  G distros go.  The RX50 was common with the (early) MicroVAX series, and  F the VAX 8200, 8250, 8300, 8350, and probably a few others.   MicroVMS - and VMS required a gazillion (50+?) floppies.   E    The RL02 was seen on some VAX-11/730, VAX-11/750, VAX-11/751, VAX  % 8600 and VAX 8650 series boxes, IIRC.   F    Some of the VAX consoles used floppies, too -- the VAX-11/780, 782 " and 785 consoles used the 8" disk.  I    I think the VAX Console Pro-350 and 380-class consoles had RX50 5.25"  H floppies, but it's been eons since I've seen one.  This covered various G of the mid- and upper-end VAX 8xxx series boxes -- most of these boxes  F used 9-track magtape, however, and not the VAX Console console floppy.  H    The typical distro I've seen on VAX-11/730 was either TU58, RL02, or 9 9-track magnetic tape, in order of increasing preference.   D    You could likely connect a floppy drive to the VAX-11/730 if you F worked at it (via Unibus), but that was rare.  RX211.  I don't recall + ever seeing a floppy on one of these boxes.   G    Where you could get it (and way back when), a TK50 drive and distro  D was much preferred to TU58, RX01/RX02/RX50 floppy or any most other H formats for the distros.  (The 9-track magtape was arguably preferable,  but not much else was...)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:37:47 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ' Subject: Re: Most "classic" VMS version J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-9D361E.01374714112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  ( In article <ejav00$jsl$1@pyrite.mv.net>,:  Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> wrote:   > Paul Sture wrote: K > > In article <87y7qjb1xg.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com  
 > > wrote: > > ? > >> Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> writes:  > >>I > >>>    The earliest distros were available on either magtape or on RX02 E > >>> eight inch floppy or on a disk pack.  CDs arrived over a decade  > >>> later.K > >> And RX50s. You have not lived until you have installed VMS onto a 8200 I > >> from a LARGE pile of RX50s... It super sucks when this is onto a HSC < > >> disk in a room of running machines, but the manager.... > > G > > An  11/730 with V3.n in my case, so probably not so many floppies.  K > > Horribly under configured; I couldn't see what practical use they were   > > going to put it to.  >  >    From memory...  > G >    The RL02 and RX50 kits were comparatively late(r) to the game, as  I > distros go.  The RX50 was common with the (early) MicroVAX series, and  H > the VAX 8200, 8250, 8300, 8350, and probably a few others.   MicroVMS / > and VMS required a gazillion (50+?) floppies.    Now I'm not too sure...   G >    The RL02 was seen on some VAX-11/730, VAX-11/750, VAX-11/751, VAX  ' > 8600 and VAX 8650 series boxes, IIRC.  > H >    Some of the VAX consoles used floppies, too -- the VAX-11/780, 782 $ > and 785 consoles used the 8" disk. > K >    I think the VAX Console Pro-350 and 380-class consoles had RX50 5.25"  J > floppies, but it's been eons since I've seen one.  This covered various I > of the mid- and upper-end VAX 8xxx series boxes -- most of these boxes  H > used 9-track magtape, however, and not the VAX Console console floppy. > J >    The typical distro I've seen on VAX-11/730 was either TU58, RL02, or ; > 9-track magnetic tape, in order of increasing preference.  > F >    You could likely connect a floppy drive to the VAX-11/730 if you H > worked at it (via Unibus), but that was rare.  RX211.  I don't recall - > ever seeing a floppy on one of these boxes.   H This beasty definitely had a floppy drive of some kind. I gathered that D someone at the given customer had a PC at home and thought that any H computer must come with floppies and BASIC. We certainly didn't want to - supply this configuration, nor support it :-(   I >    Where you could get it (and way back when), a TK50 drive and distro  F > was much preferred to TU58, RX01/RX02/RX50 floppy or any most other J > formats for the distros.  (The 9-track magtape was arguably preferable,  > but not much else was...)   C 9-track was the usual medium in those days; TK50s came a bit later.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:12:17 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> @ Subject: Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx36009 Message-ID: <zpidncDL5IFIXsXYnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rob Brooks wrote:  > twnews@kittles.com writes: >> Stephen Hoffman wrote:  >>> Syltrem wrote: >>> F >>>> That server (the ES40 to be replaced by some Itanium box) hosts 6F >>>> Oracle databases of which 1 is heavily accessed, plus all clientsK >>>> (300) that run different applications (mostly 4GL apps), some of which % >>>> use RMS files and others Oracle. K >>>   Whether a move to OpenVMS I64 and an Integrity server will speed your K >>> operations, or hinder them, depends greatly on various factors and data  >>> not yet in evidence. >>> K >>>   At the core, the typical OpenVMS I64 configuration is faster than the F >>> typical OpenVMS Alpha AlphaServer configuration, and the IntegrityK >>> rx3600 is a very nice and very fast box.  But whether it will be faster J >>> for your specific installation and your specific applications is a far >>> more difficult question.H >> Hoff finally starts to get to the core of your question.  The currentG >> state of the art Integrity servers are on average just incrementally & >> faster than the Alpha you describe. > O > Your statement is definitely not true, given that he's got an EV6-based ES40.  > F >> The key, IMHO, is that you should not count on anything but a smallE >> boost in going from your particular Alpha's to fairly cutting edge . >> Integrity.  It just isn't that much faster. > 1 > That isn't true, going from an EV6-class Alpha.  >    Some terse statements.  1 Are you saying that EV6 will do better, or worse?   D Since you make the distinction, are you implying that another Alpha C would be faster?  My impression was that EV7 used the EV6 core and  I tacked on the memory controller and seamless SMP glue.  And I believe, a  
 faster clock?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:55:52 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> @ Subject: Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx36009 Message-ID: <9bednaA76IEH0cTYnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@libcom.com>    George Cook wrote:i > In article <af827$4558bb53$cef8887a$3881@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >> George Cook wrote: F >>> Admittedly it was the last century when I last looked in detail at
 >>> EPIC. K >> Is the current incarnation of that IA64 thing still truly EPIC ? Or has  L >> Intel had to incorporate a lot of RISC features in it to make it perform K >> palatably when it realised that compilers cannot predict what real life  & >> applications will really be doing ? > J > (A point that I should have made in my response to John Reagan) Intel/HPN > did do one quite clever thing in regard to EPIC.  They renamed "instruction"J > to "bundle" and "operation (aka microoperation)" to "instruction".  ThisJ > was very effective in muddying the waters, causing people to make applesM > to oranges comparisons and making it hard to have an intelligent discussion . > concerning the relative merits of EPIC/IA64. > E > RISC - each instruction does one simple thing (a single operation).  > E > EPIC - each bundle (aka instruction) does up to three simple things ) >        (instructions (aka operations)).  > C > CISC - each instruction does one complex thing consisting of many E >        small things (operations sometimes numbering in the hundreds  >        or even thousands). > H > By RISC features, I assume you mean stuff like out of order execution,G > pipelining, multi-issue, etc.  Any one who has a decent understanding I > of the complexity of implementing these features with RISC instructions F > should be able to understand the somewhat mind bogging complexity ofF > implementing them with EPIC instructions.  This is perhaps the fatalF > flaw in EPIC; it is a great deal more complex to implement them whenD > you have giant instructions (aka bundles) with multiple operationsH > (aka instructions).  CISC has the same flaw to an even greater degree;C > it is the argument for why VAX was killed.  Doing RISC stuff with C > CISC instructions was decided to be far too complex to deal with. F > But even CISC architectures can be made to perform well given enoughF > treasure as proved by x86.  Perhaps Intel can still pull it off withF > EPIC, but I have serious doubts that they are committed to doing so.  D The last N-VAX CPUs were, (to my understanding), 'doing RISC stuff' I while still presenting CISC on the outside.  I don't think that path was  H totally explored once Alpha was shipping.  But I'm not a chip designer,  and maybe it was too complex.   E As long as AMD keeps pushing Intel to concentrate on x86, the itanic  G will find it's iceburg, either by plan, or just by being so far behind   x86.  Resistance is futile!    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:57:17 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx36008 Message-ID: <40aa3$455968e3$cef8887a$23274@TEKSAVVY.COM>   Robert Deininger wrote:   A > "EV7 used the EV6 core" has just enough fact in it to make good K > slideware.  It isn't helpful in predicting performance of a real workload  > in a real system.   L Isn't EV7 sort of moot anyways, available only on small number of very high . end systems?    ES45s run on EV68 as I recall.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 14:45:37 -0800 From: pcusub@yahoo.comR Subject: Re: Problem with sys$system:AXPVMS$PCSI_INSTALL_MIN.COM (VMS V8.3, Alpha)B Message-ID: <1163457937.387544.296250@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   bradhamilton wrote:      > Has anyone seen this problem?    Yes, I have, just this morning.    > D > Installed minimal boot on a non-system disk.  Installation went asJ > expected (I've done this a number of times on V7.2X/7.3X systems without	 > issue).   # Likewise, and without any problems. D My problem is slightly different in that it reports an "APB-F-MOUNT,< failed to mount volume" message instead of your problem with sysboot.exe.G We have just changed out a 36GB disk for a 300GB disk in a DS20 running C under the Compaq controller SMART array 5300 series. Our O/S ver is  7.3-1.  < I tested on another machine (ds25) and had no problems. I am investigating further, though.   > D > When I went to boot from the "alternate" boot disk, I received the > following at the console:  >  > >>>>b -fl e,0 dkb600 > > ' > > System will be reset prior to boot.  > >  > > D > > ff.fe.fd.fc.fb.fa.f9.f8.f7.f6.f5.CPU 0 speed is 2.31 ns (433MHz) > > % > > ef.ee.ed.ec.eb.f4.ea.e9.e8.e7.e6. 6 > > ewa0: link up : Negotiated  100BaseTX: full duplex
 > > e5.e4.& > > Digital Personal WorkStation 433au > > CPU 0 booting  > > ' > > (boot dkb600.6.0.1009.0 -flags e,0) 6 > > block 0 of dkb600.6.0.1009.0 is a valid boot block. > > reading 1226 blocks from dkb600.6.0.1009.0 > > bootstrap code read in7 > > base = 1d8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 99400  > > initializing HWRPB at 2000% > > initializing page table at 1ca000  > > initializing machine state' > > setting affinity to the primary CPU  > > jumping to bootstrap code 3 > > %APB-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYSBOOT.EXE J > > %APB-I-LOADFAIL, Failed to load secondary bootstrap, status = 00000910 > >  > > halted CPU 0 > >  > > halt code = 5  > > HALT instruction executed  > > PC = 20004048   > > warning -- HWRPB is invalid. > G > Since I am a hobbyist, I can't report this through "formal" channels.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:03:40 -0500 - From: bradhamilton <bradhamilton@comcast.net> Y Subject: Re: Problem with sys$system:AXPVMS$PCSI_INSTALL_MIN.COM (VMS V8.3, Alpha) Alpha) * Message-ID: <4558CF9C.9070405@comcast.net>   Stephen Hoffman wrote: > bradhamilton wrote:  > F >> Installed minimal boot on a non-system disk.  Installation went as D >> expected (I've done this a number of times on V7.2X/7.3X systems  >> without issue). >>F >> When I went to boot from the "alternate" boot disk, I received the  >> following at the console: >> >>>>>> b -fl e,0 dkb600  > ... 2 >> %APB-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYSBOOT.EXEI >> %APB-I-LOADFAIL, Failed to load secondary bootstrap, status = 00000910  > D >   Do you have a [SYSE] root on DKB600:?  Or is the root in [SYS0]?H >   Does the root contain (%x910 is a file not found error) SYSBOOT.EXE?B >   Are all the SYSBOOT.EXE files on the disk (DIR/FILE) the same?! >   What sort of disk is DKB600:? 4 >   Does a [SYS0] bootstrap (b -fl 0,0 dkb600) work?   Thanks for the feedback.  G A cursory glance revealed no SYSBOOT.EXE in SYSE; along with the other  E questions posted, I began to think that perhaps I goofed on the boot   options or the minimal install.   = Since DKB600 has no open files, I dismounted it/remounted it  F "privately".  I removed all of the minimal files and directories from D the [vms$common...] and [syse...] "trees"; then, I re-installed the I minimal environment.  There is now a SYSBOOT.EXE in the SYSE "tree" (!).  K   I'll try another minimal boot tonight or tomorrow and report the results.   F DKB600 is a 72G, 10KRPM SCSI drive shoe-horned into an SBB in a BA356 6 shelf.  There is no SYS0 root on the drive, only SYSE.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 15:30:06 -0800 From: soterro@gmail.com / Subject: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff C Message-ID: <1163460606.333541.115450@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hi all,   @ I have a mailbox which never ceases to puzzle me and our guru is( nowhere to be found in the next weeks...D There's this process creating a mailbox. Then this mailbox is set asE auditing listener. All ok. The process then quits leaving the mailbox A up. That's by design but not so good as it will fill up, so a set & audit/nolistener should deregister it. But it does not!G Although the owner process ID is 0 and reference count is also 0, I see B that events are gathered in the mailbox, eventually leading to its filling (and rwast aplenty).D Now of course a small program could remove the mailbox any time, butD I'd REALLY like to understand where are all these audit events stillF coming from. I even disabled all auditing with set audit/audit/disable@ and they were still coming... it's like in a cheap horror movie.  G Is there anything I could try to figure out? I tried it on VMS VAX 6.2, $ 7.1 and 7.2 (I didn't try on Alphas)   Thank you everyone,  S    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 15:37:08 -0800  From: "Jinx" <soterro@gmail.com>/ Subject: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff B Message-ID: <1163461028.740857.88040@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Hi all,   @ I have a mailbox which never ceases to puzzle me and our guru is( nowhere to be found in the next weeks...D There's this process creating a mailbox. Then this mailbox is set asE auditing listener. All ok. The process then quits leaving the mailbox A up. That's by design but not so good as it will fill up, so a set & audit/nolistener should deregister it. But it does not!G Although the owner process ID is 0 and reference count is also 0, I see B that events are gathered in the mailbox, eventually leading to its filling (and rwast aplenty).D Now of course a small program could remove the mailbox any time, butD I'd REALLY like to understand where are all these audit events stillF coming from. I even disabled all auditing with set audit/audit/disable@ and they were still coming... it's like in a cheap horror movie.  G Is there anything I could try to figure out? I tried it on VMS VAX 6.2, $ 7.1 and 7.2 (I didn't try on Alphas)   Thank you everyone,  J    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 16:49:18 -0800  From: "Jinx" <soterro@gmail.com>3 Subject: Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff B Message-ID: <1163465358.798091.19950@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote: E > Does the process have prmmbx privilege ? It is possible to create a G > permanent mailbox which survive after all processes have closed their I > channels to the mailbox.  If you have access to the code, check for any M > flags supplied in the $CREMBX call. I believe the first argument, if set to $ > 1, it creates a permanent mailbox.  D Ah, yes, I should have said: it is indeed a permanent mailbox. So noF surprise it stays there, I just don't get it why would it still gather( events also after set audit /nolistener.   Thank you again, J    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:49:35 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 3 Subject: Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-D684A9.01493514112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1163460606.333541.115450@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,   soterro@gmail.com wrote:   	 > Hi all,  > B > I have a mailbox which never ceases to puzzle me and our guru is* > nowhere to be found in the next weeks...F > There's this process creating a mailbox. Then this mailbox is set asG > auditing listener. All ok. The process then quits leaving the mailbox C > up. That's by design but not so good as it will fill up, so a set ( > audit/nolistener should deregister it.  I I haven't seen that behaviour, but if the mailbox is already full before  G issuing set audit/nolistener, you'll need to empty it so that auditing  
 can continue.    $ COPY mailbox_name NL:    does the trick nicely.   > But it does not!I > Although the owner process ID is 0 and reference count is also 0, I see D > that events are gathered in the mailbox, eventually leading to its > filling (and rwast aplenty).   That has me baffled.  F > Now of course a small program could remove the mailbox any time, butF > I'd REALLY like to understand where are all these audit events stillH > coming from. I even disabled all auditing with set audit/audit/disableB > and they were still coming... it's like in a cheap horror movie. > I > Is there anything I could try to figure out? I tried it on VMS VAX 6.2, & > 7.1 and 7.2 (I didn't try on Alphas) >   F The behaviour I describe above certainly worked on Alpha from V6.2 up H until 7.3-2, without problems. Sorry - no experience of using it on VAX:   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 23:14:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff 3 Message-ID: <GbzP+7iUvB5S@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <1163460606.333541.115450@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, soterro@gmail.com writes:   B > I have a mailbox which never ceases to puzzle me and our guru is* > nowhere to be found in the next weeks...F > There's this process creating a mailbox. Then this mailbox is set asG > auditing listener. All ok. The process then quits leaving the mailbox C > up. That's by design but not so good as it will fill up, so a set ( > audit/nolistener should deregister it. > But it does not!  + Does SHOW AUDIT/FULL show what you expect ?   I > Although the owner process ID is 0 and reference count is also 0, I see D > that events are gathered in the mailbox, eventually leading to its > filling (and rwast aplenty).  E If the mailbox is not permanent and the reference count goes to zero, H the mailbox should disappear.  Have you tried creating it as temporary ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:06:06 GMT # From: "FredK" <fred@nospam.dec.com> 1 Subject: Re: VGA console freezing bug (8.3 alpha) 2 Message-ID: <2756h.2398$6z3.1671@news.cpqcorp.net>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  1 news:982a3$4558bee4$cef8887a$5085@TEKSAVVY.COM...  > FredK wrote:I >> ^S (XOF) stopped processing of input, holding down the key filled the  D >> input buffer.  If anything, this is a OPDRIVER issue if ^Q can't M >> breakthrough the filled buffer.  Try holding ^Q down for a couple minutes   >> ;-) >  > @ > Well, CTRL-S should stop processing of OUTPUT... not INPUT :-) >  > K Before it becomes output, it was input.  The ^S is an input character that  L blocks output...  which has an effect on input...  however as I said - this < is 99% probably a problem in the OPDRIVER port driver logic.        M > When doing a CTRL-S followed shortly by a CTRL-Q, it works fine. But it is  E > when you leave in in "hold screen" mode for long than  somehow the  M > keyboard loses all function.  I am talking about leaving it in hold screen  = > mode for more than a minute (I haven't timed it precisely).  > M > Look to me like some timeout condition which perhaps causes the console to  - > forget to re-issue a read for the keyboard.  >   H It never issues a "read" as it were.  It is waiting for an interrupt in L general.  My guess?  You filled the input buffer with ^S until there was no G more room, which caused OPDRIVER to send a ^S to what it thinks is the  J "terminal" but which is really the console firmware KB driver.  Of course J this is a problem no matter what happens at that point... since either it B ignores the ^S or worse it honors it - and then can't send the ^Q.  2 So.  If it hurts when you do that - don't do that.  I > The way it FEELS is that CTRL-S causes the console driver to have some  L > $QIO with a IO$M_TIMEOUT on the keyboard until it gets a <CTRL-Q>. But if K > no charaters are entered by that timeout period, it exits and forgets to  J > issue the QIO for the next read. Note that when in that state, <CTRL-P> I > does not bring it back to the firmware console. The keyboard is really   > made non-functional. >  > K > BTW, what advantage is there of loading a VMS specific console driver at  ( > midpoint during the booting sequence ?  L You mean taking over the VGA?  Because to be able to switch between console ; and graphics modes - we need to do special things that are  I hardware-specific - and we do not want the firmware involved with the HW  I anymore - we want to control it - because we have some chance of dealing   with server state.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:52:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 1 Subject: Re: VGA console freezing bug (8.3 alpha) 7 Message-ID: <e257$455967ce$cef8887a$23076@TEKSAVVY.COM>    FredK wrote:N > general.  My guess?  You filled the input buffer with ^S until there was no I > more room, which caused OPDRIVER to send a ^S to what it thinks is the  A > "terminal" but which is really the console firmware KB driver.    L Nop, the last time I tried it, I was quite careful to just hold screen once : and wait a couple of minutes and then try to CTRL-Q again.  L On real LK201 keyboards, the exita lights were useful (the WAIT light woudl G indicqate the system sending an XOFF to the terminal). Alas, the cheap  ( Compaq keyboards only have the 2 lights.  4 > So.  If it hurts when you do that - don't do that.  8 Yeah, but you still have to tell the doctor about it :-)  N > You mean taking over the VGA?  Because to be able to switch between console  > and graphics modes      I Interesting.  If, once in the VMS console mode, I type <CTRL-P> I get to  H the hardware VGA mode. From there, I can type CONTINUE, then login, and L restarts DECWINDOWS. If I crash decwindows again, it returns to the VMS VGA N console. So it seems that the VMS VGA console gets re-installed along the way.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2006 14:04:08 -0800+ From: "madcrow" <madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com>  Subject: VMS Gaming History?C Message-ID: <1163455448.115722.198370@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   C As an OS that was used at plenty of college campuses, there seem to A have been plenty of games for VMS. While some "smaller" games are F available for playing at the Deathrow Cluster, I haven't found sourcesE to build them, nor even executables. Since I might eventually want to B set up my own VMS site at home, it would be great if someone couldB point me to this stuff. Also, VMS seems to have been a hub for theA development of rogue-likes (especially the early Moria line) Does : anyone know where I can get VMS Moria or IMORIA or BOSS (aG future-setting derivitaive of Moria that only exists on VAX/VMS and the 
 Macintosh...)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:09:10 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>  Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?( Message-ID: <ejatun$jhm$1@pyrite.mv.net>   madcrow wrote:E > As an OS that was used at plenty of college campuses, there seem to C > have been plenty of games for VMS. While some "smaller" games are H > available for playing at the Deathrow Cluster, I haven't found sourcesG > to build them, nor even executables. Since I might eventually want to D > set up my own VMS site at home, it would be great if someone couldD > point me to this stuff. Also, VMS seems to have been a hub for theC > development of rogue-likes (especially the early Moria line) Does < > anyone know where I can get VMS Moria or IMORIA or BOSS (aI > future-setting derivitaive of Moria that only exists on VAX/VMS and the  > Macintosh...)   B    I've tossed various games onto various of the OpenVMS Freeware E distros over the years, and there are piles of them on the old DECUS  F tapes and the old VAXSIG and VMSSIG tapes -- the Freeware distros and 4 the tapes are available at various places via FTP...  F    As for Moria, and not having dug through the Encompasserve files...  , http://www-math.bgsu.edu/~grabine/moria.html2 http://www.angelfire.com/games3/imoria/imoria.html http://beej.us/moria/  http://beej.us/moria/files/ K http://www.encompassus.org/FTPLIB/VS0121_VAX90A_AKE_MORIA_AAAREADME_1ST.cfm 5 ?? ftp://ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu/maslib/games/imoria/ ??   . If you know the VS number or such, also check: http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/ ) ftp://ftp.encompasserve.org/vms-freeware/    And see:) http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html   G The EncompassUS FTP servers have been problematic for years, but there  I is often enough information there to allow you to find the kits from FTP  H servers else-network.  The EncompassUS libraries can often be searched, 3 but seemingly cannot FTP-serve the kits themselves.   $ And here you go...  Moria sources...4 http://vmsone.com/~decuslib/vaxsig/vax90a/ake/moria/     --  E The OpenVMS FAQ over at <http://HoffmanLabs.Org/vmsfaq/> has various  8 pointers to sources of source code around the 'net, too.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:04:27 GMT ; From: "The Grue - James T. Sprinkle" <the-grue@hotmail.com> " Subject: Re: Where to get a cable?/ Message-ID: <%k36h.5314$Ka1.2186@news01.roc.ny>   ' <davidc@montagar.com> wrote in message  = news:1163094140.977610.272750@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...  > % > The Grue - James T. Sprinkle wrote: J >> Where is a good place to get a resonably priced mmj <-> db9f cable?  I  >> just H >> got a MicroVAX 3100 and it is just sitting there waiting for me to do >> something with it.  : ) > E > I've just been making my own cables for that.  Got a roll of silver ? > satin, and local electroncs store has the various parts.  See H > http://www.montagar.com/padapters/padapters.html for some pin-outs.  I6 > mirrored it from a DEC web site before it went away. >  >> >> The Grue  > H Thanks to everybody for their help/suggestions.  I went to a local used M computer parts store and for less than $7 (and an hour digging through parts  K bins) I purchased enough BN24H cables and DB9F heads to build 4 cables!  I  L used the information on the link above to build a cable and it works great! 
 Thanks again!   	 The Grue     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:15:59 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ? Subject: Re: writing fixed size records with one shorter record 7 Message-ID: <3f869$4558c43e$cef8887a$6025@TEKSAVVY.COM>   L The FTP software from TCPIP Services is able to create a fixed 512 file and I set the end of file pointer for the last block. Perhaps if there are any  L engineers left in the TCPIP Group, he could chime in to explain what tricks F he used to do this, at which point you may have a good idea of how to  translate this to Fortran.  F Looks to me like doing a stream type of IO (not STREAMLF, but perhaps H STREAM or UNDEFINED), then doing the fortran equivalent of fsync/fflush I (which updates the end of file pointer) and then using Hein,s SYS$MODIFY  % trick to get the file into FIXED 512.   J I guess one might have to look at a file transfer in progress with FTP to K see if the file is created in a different format and later switched to 512.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.626 ************************