1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 14 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 627       Contents: .$package files?? - Re: DECC:  VAX 7.2 vs 7.3: malloc/free oddity  Does VEST still exist ?  Re: Does VEST still exist ?  Re: Does VEST still exist ?  Re: Does VEST still exist ?  Re: Does VEST still exist ?  Re: Does VEST still exist ? + Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it down O Re: How to retrieve and set default file version limit of directories and files O Re: How to retrieve and set default file version limit of directories and files  Re: Most "classic" VMS version4 Re: Observations on Samba for VMS (CIFS Kit from HP)7 Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600 7 Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600 * Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff UNZIP  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History?  VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 07:55:41 -0800+ From: "madcrow" <madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com>  Subject: .$package files??C Message-ID: <1163519741.341019.274110@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F In my search for VMS games, I'm come across a large stash of things inB a bizzare format. Each came comes in a series of 15KB files with aF header file with a .$package extension which contains a description ofG the game as well as a plain-text list of files. How does one use these? G Are they user-installable/unpacakble at all or are they like .rpm files ) in Linux (aka a system pacaking format. )    Example Listing:4 [   ] football.$package       27-Apr-2004 16:02  1525 [   ] football.1              27-Apr-2004 16:02   15K 5 [   ] football.2              27-Apr-2004 16:02   15K 5 [   ] football.3              27-Apr-2004 16:02   15K 5 [   ] football.4              27-Apr-2004 16:02   15K 4 [   ] football.5              27-Apr-2004 16:02  496   football.$package:B * Program Football by Xiaomu Zeng and William W Brennessel. (1992) *  FOOTBALL.$PACKAGE 
 FOOTBALL.1
 FOOTBALL.2
 FOOTBALL.3
 FOOTBALL.4
 FOOTBALL.5   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:45:14 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: DECC:  VAX 7.2 vs 7.3: malloc/free oddity8 Message-ID: <13c3b$455981ea$cef8887a$14842@TEKSAVVY.COM>   Bob Koehler wrote:E >    Let us know what /list/show=(include,expan) gives you, it always ) >    solved these kinds of things for me.     I Unfortunatly, after upgrading from DECC 6.0.0 something to Compaq C 6.4,  * the problem is no longer being reproduced.    L Wish I had known about the /list/show=(include,expan) before I upgraded the     compiler.  H Perhaps there were leftovers from the days of VAX-C and the 6.4 install J finally got rid of it all. Perhaps it was the 7.3 install that introduced G some weird stuff which was removed when I suspect an older 6.4 crushed   whatever 7.3 had done.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:10:28 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Does VEST still exist ?8 Message-ID: <d38d3$4559a43e$cef8887a$26650@TEKSAVVY.COM>  K As a hobbyist, is it still possible to use VEST to get some VAX executable   to run on an alpha ?  A If so, where might one find VEST (and under what product name ?).   N I have the PSPRINT utility (DECPRINT for postscript to sixel printing utility)  +                  image name: "PSPRINT$MAIN" <                  image file identification: "PSPRINT V1.0-1"8                  link date/time: 16-NOV-1989 01:13:43.32/                  linker identification: "05-02"   L Which also has a few shareable images of the same vintage.   Is this a lost  cause ?   K (this converts postscript to SIXEL scaled to various printers. I use it to  K send postscript to an LA75 to print labels with various graphics/lettering   on it.)   < GHOSTSCRIPT doesn't have a SIXEL output module unfortunatly.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 03:20:38 -0800/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> $ Subject: Re: Does VEST still exist ?B Message-ID: <1163503238.390709.65460@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   JF,   F VEST is called DECmigrate or OMSVA (OpenVMS Migration Software for VAX	 to Alpha)   ; http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/omsva/omsva.html    Volker.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:44:37 -0800 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>$ Subject: Re: Does VEST still exist ?) Message-ID: <op.ti0dsnwutte90l@hyrrokkin>   . On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:29:13 -0800, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Volker Halle wrote: I >> VEST is called DECmigrate or OMSVA (OpenVMS Migration Software for VAX  >> to Alpha)> >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/omsva/omsva.html >  > L > Many thanks. I would have never found it by myself.  I guess VMS is very  > > good at changing names to ensure people get confused/lost... > L > All these years, I thought it was called VEST. Must be because I live in   > a different universe.   ! That would just vest of Montreal?    --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:02:17 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> $ Subject: Re: Does VEST still exist ?: Message-ID: <dPWdndF4PKX4UcTYnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Volker Halle wrote:  > & >> VEST is called DECmigrate or OMSVA  <snip> >  >  > 6 > Many thanks. I would have never found it by myself.  <snip> > K > All these years, I thought it was called VEST. Must be because I live in   > a different universe.   , All these years and we never suspected!! :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:00:34 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>$ Subject: Re: Does VEST still exist ?) Message-ID: <ejclmm$11kb$1@pyrite.mv.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Volker Halle wrote: I >> VEST is called DECmigrate or OMSVA (OpenVMS Migration Software for VAX  >> to Alpha)> >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/omsva/omsva.html >  > K > Many thanks. I would have never found it by myself.  I guess VMS is very  > > good at changing names to ensure people get confused/lost... > K > All these years, I thought it was called VEST. Must be because I live in   > a different universe.   ?    So all that work I put in the OpenVMS FAQ doesn't help?  :-)   I    If you use DECmigrate/OMSVA, arguably V8.3 is your best target choice.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 07:17:34 -0800! From: "Rod" <rregier@dymaxion.ca> $ Subject: Re: Does VEST still exist ?B Message-ID: <1163517454.726016.66070@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>  = Last appearance of VEST in the Alpha CONDIST was during CY99.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:52:14 -0500 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 4 Subject: Re: DS10L hanging problem, tracking it downI Message-ID: <8660a3a10611140352x2fe6058cjda669a948b1266e3@mail.gmail.com>   ; On 11/13/06, William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote:  >  >  >  > ? > On 11/13/06, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote: K > >  In article <87lkmg4oqq.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com 
 > > wrote: > >  > > > I > > > From the SW side. Yearsa go I was chasing an RSX driver bug of some J > > > sort.  I got about 3 time a day, `How long will you take to fix it?'! > > > So on about day 3 I replied  > > >  > > > `5 minutes'  > > > 9 > > > `Oh great, we will be back fully running in 5 min.'  > > > = > >  > `No, when I find the problem, THEN it  will be 5 min.'  > > > 4 > > > Quiet  was the order of the rest of the day :) > > > H > > > I was wrong BTW, it took 3 min to fix, but another 36 hrs to find. > > 0 > > User interruptions can be highly irritating. > > B > > "Let's have a meeting to discuss progress." is a pet hate. :-) > >  > > -- > > Paul Sture > >  >  > Now I can tell this tale- The systems we ran at a government agency literally had millions and millions of dollars running through them; and any outage was ranked as a highest priority item. > > And problems of this category not only required that the work log of the ticket be updated every fifteen minutes, but we also had to send out email notifications every fifteen minutes to executive mailing lists which were aimed at all said executives' Blackberries- so the emails were narrowly formatted accordingly-- in fact there was an officially prescribed format for both the worklog and the email updates.  >  > So our solution was to pair off-- one of us would work the problem and the other would work the notifications-- because it was physically impossible to do both. >  > WWWebb >  >  >   E Speaking of worklogs, any of you who have not seen the "Chronicles of ? George" site have missed some seriously funny work log entries.   F Most of us have probably worked with someone who is "George-like", butD some of what "he" put in "his" worklogs must be read to be believed.  # http://chroniclesofgeorge.nanc.com/    WWWebb   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 05:01:03 -0800< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>X Subject: Re: How to retrieve and set default file version limit of directories and filesB Message-ID: <1163509262.864739.93740@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Jose Baars wrote:  : D > A short test already showed that stealing the channel from RMS, byI > taking the fab$l_stv value produces a no privilege error, even with all  > privileges enabled.   > The official way to use the RMS channel is by syayin 'please': fab.fab$l_fop = FAB$M_UFO;    See my example of an ACP QIO in:  E http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/rms_tools/bonus/uchar.c    Hein.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 08:31:10 -0800" From: "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org>X Subject: Re: How to retrieve and set default file version limit of directories and filesB Message-ID: <1163521870.139019.23420@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   .  > @ > The official way to use the RMS channel is by syayin 'please': > fab.fab$l_fop = FAB$M_UFO; > " > See my example of an ACP QIO in: > G > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/rms_tools/bonus/uchar.c  >  > Hein.    Hi,   B Unbelievable success (with the proper help you can do anything, of course).D I hacked you uchar example, first to see what it does with the uchar bits.   D A particular nice bit is the FCH$M_EXISTENCE : suppress existence of file. E Sounds like functionality that could be expanded to organizations and  some people as well :-).  D Anyway, by using the RECATTR  the in the File Attribute list I could retrieve the default version> limit of a directory file. (fatdef needed to be extracted from sys$lib_c.tlb as well)  E I saw the fib$w_verlimit filed in the fib structure and had a look at % that, too, this returned always zero. F Then I remembered you remark on this being a directory entry attribute in stead of a fileD attribute, and change uchar to do a directory lookup, by copying the fab*did fields to the fib*did C fields, and cutting all directory and device info off the filename, ' using the result filename functionality F of the nam block, and put that in a descriptor as P2 to qio. ( My wife has just fallen asleep) " That produced nice version limits.  F Then I boldly went were you warned me not to go (not really a parallel universe, though) and B changed the IO$_MODIFY function call to also use the did's and the descriptor with the filename, E and changed the fib$w_verlimit into whatever argv[2] of uchar was set  to. @ This worked, as far as I can see: version limits change at will.  $ Can you explain why not to use this?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:27:58 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> ' Subject: Re: Most "classic" VMS version / Message-ID: <4ruerdFrkgdsU1@mid.individual.net>   ( On 2006-11-13 23:10, "Paul Sture" wrote:  K > Rob's post mentioning August 1998 as the discontinuation date for Compaq  H > reminds me that in 1999 I bought an HP LaserJet. The fact that it had J > its own PostScript emulator rather than one licensed from Adobe made it            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I > considerably cheaper. That's HP, as well as Compaq and Apple, and in a   > similar time frame.   B I've seen many PostScript documents (DEC/Compaq "command referenceF cards" in most cases, "DSN" IIRC, mid to late 1990s) which could *not*E be printed on these "emulators", but which obviously could be printed ; just fine on some DEC laser printers at DEC's local office.    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 06:10:14 -0800 From: "dk" <dhruvakm@gmail.com> = Subject: Re: Observations on Samba for VMS (CIFS Kit from HP) B Message-ID: <1163513414.718237.283630@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   Hi,   D On Nov 8, 11:12 am, "Craig A. Berry" <craigbe...@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote:= > In article <NOKdnRNUOIG91NrYnZ2dnUVZ_sKdn...@adelphia.com>, 1 >  "John E. Malmberg" <wb8...@qsl.network> wrote:  >  > > Paul Sture wrote: F > > > In article <craigberry-24E073.21374030102...@free.teranews.com>,> > > >  "Craig A. Berry" <craigbe...@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote:J > > >>In principle it's just a matter of compiling with /DEFINE=_LARGEFILEK > > >>and then tracking down any cases where someone should have used off_t M > > >>but used int instead.  Real life could, of course, be more complicated. K > > > Thanks for the pointer to "LARGEFILE". I did have a quick peek at the L > > > sources delivered with the evaluation kit, but didn't know what likely > > > keywords to search for.  > L > > The OpenVMS build should be being built with _USE_STD_STAT defined whichl > > forces _LARGEFILE to be defined.Well, yes, and no.  Defining _USE_STD_STAT appears to define most of theJ > derivative things that _LARGEFILE also defines, but it does not directly  F This is now fixed (in the developers version). I did a routine cleanupC and found the offending preprocessor statements that was preventing E _LARGEFIEL from getting defined 9as intended). A few extra things you C need to do after enabling _LARGEFILE option is to add the following ! types (which will get into CRTL).    #ifdef _LARGEFILE      typedef __off64_t off64_t;     typedef __dev64_t dev64_t;     typedef __ino64_t ino64_t; #endif /* _LARGEFILE */   4 This will take you through the build with no issues.   -dk    --   dhruva (dk) ( Contents reflect my personal views only!   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 04:46:56 -0800 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk@ Subject: Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600B Message-ID: <1163508416.662876.297890@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  E Erm, no.  the graphs of 8086 vs. IA64 (if indeed there are any) would ' show that IA64 vastly outperforms 8086. C If we talk x86 or the other 64-bit compatible varieties (whose name . escapes me) then the story might be different.   Steve    JF Mezei wrote:  > George Cook wrote:F > > Admittedly it was the last century when I last looked in detail at	 > > EPIC.  > I > Is the current incarnation of that IA64 thing still truly EPIC ? Or has J > Intel had to incorporate a lot of RISC features in it to make it performI > palatably when it realised that compilers cannot predict what real life % > applications will really be doing ?  >  > I > Besides, EPIC, CISC or RISC doesn't matter. What matters is how quickly J > Intel/AMD/IBM/SUN can create a faster version of their chip. When CompaqE > wanted to murder Alpha, it just produced phoney graphs showing IA64  > outpacing Alpha. > L > But if you look at real graphs of the 8086 vs IA64, you don't need to playE > with statistics to see that the 8086 has a clearly superior rate of J > advances. Intel's promise to speed up development of the 8086 to competeK > against AMD will only make things worse for IA64 with its already delayed  > and scaled down plans. >  > K > Once the contracts run out, those graphs will come out. HP isn't about to L > send another 3 billion to Intel to keep IA64 alive when it would cost lessK > to port its BCS  OS to the 8086 which, by 2008 get a new system interface E > from Intel that will allow it to scale to Superdome class machines.  > > > Intel admitted it wasn't making money on IA64.  Take a hint. > L > I'd recommend you just boost your alphas to last another couple of years ,I > by which time, you will have a much clearer view of where VMS is going.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:39:08 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>@ Subject: Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx36000 Message-ID: <12ljootob2l6u4f@corp.supernews.com>  H "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1163263625.149363.204250@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  >  > Syltrem wrote: >>J >> How does one usually proceed, when time comes to upgrade a server? It'sL >> easier when you stay on the same platform but now, we have to switch from >> Alpha to Itanium... > 7 > Sounds like Oracle is a major component of your load. C > Why not move all the Oracle instances to extra (Itanium) machine? & > That would be nearly transparent no? > No user code to migrate.+ > Just some tnsnames.ora entries to adjust? F > You could possibly even prepare then tnsnames to try the new machine: > already as a first choice then failover the the old box. >   2 Yes, moving Oracle to the Integrity box is step 1." Moving some of the apps is step 2.F Problem is, I'm still unsure I could still shutdown Oracle on on node . (Itanium) and restart it on the other (Alpha).L Right now I can easily switch my instance from one node to the other (Alpha 4 to Alpha) should one machine require hw maintenance.  L For now, it looks like the Integrity could only give supplemental CPU power G (by running Oracle) but I need to keep the Alphas for the appoications. K I could also do the other way around (run the apps on Itanium) if I cannot  I easily switch the Oracle instance from Itanium to Alpha, but Oracle said  J that should work. But it cannot be tested at this time as Oracle versions : cannot be made the same on both architecture at this time.  H I need to maintain ways to failover the apps and the database in case a  server is down for some time.    Syltrem    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 01:04:12 -0800! From: "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net> 3 Subject: Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff A Message-ID: <1163495052.583090.49080@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   1 Do you know what the messages in the mailbox are? = Can you post the result of  SDA SHOW DEVICE for that mailbox.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:33:10 -0700 , From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: UNZIPV Message-ID: <OF5DB8AB3D.E5BBF672-ON07257226.005A4842-07257226.005ADC87@mck.us.ray.com>   Folks   H I downloaded the three Freeware 8.0 ZIP files recently.  I noticed three@ UNZIP.EXE files in disk 1 and disk 2 -- I didn't look on disk 3.   1. Are they all ALPHA?   2. If not, which is which?  G Which leads to the general question ... there are no directories on the I disks so there a multiple identical file names, like README and MAKEFILE. > Sorting all that out is quite a chore.   Has anyone done that?   dave.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 01:14:57 -0800! From: "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net>   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?C Message-ID: <1163495696.696149.132450@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   " you may also be interested in this  5 "LibSDL_Mixer and BomberClone game ported to OpenVMS" 9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/09/25/0952433    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 10:32:59 -0800# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?C Message-ID: <1163529179.539311.232810@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E Was the old HAUNT game ever ported to VMS? I saw it on TOPS-10 (?) at > DECUS around 1978-1980 but never heard anything else about it.   Galen    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2006 13:31:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: VMS outsourcing/ Message-ID: <4rtuqcFso57rU1@mid.individual.net>   > There was a thread here about the quality of the people at the@ recently created off-shore call centers resulting in their using@ public forums like USENET to solve customer problems.  Does that> explain the sudden increase in questions coming from gmail.com+ (ie. free, anonymous, throw-away) accounts?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 06:35:49 -0800! From: "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net>  Subject: Re: VMS outsourcingB Message-ID: <1163514949.911240.256980@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  F Not necessarily as some people (like myself) always use free throwaway+ email addresses when posting to newsgroups.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 07:28:46 -0800  From: "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com> Subject: Re: VMS outsourcingB Message-ID: <1163518126.362749.69810@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  E Not all gmail addresses are throwaway.  I have used Gmail for my main * personal email for over two years now. :-)  B Offshoring is certainly frustrating, especially for places like my6 employer that use VMS for our main financial software.  D This group, ITRC and openvms.org have certainly been able to help meF vastly more than HP.  In fact, I would say in the last year I have notE gotten a single acceptable answer or solution directly from HP or our G provider, but ITRC folks and guys like you have been more than helpful.   E I can't blame the offshore folks for coming here, but I agree it is a E travesty when the support folks are not trained well enough.  Hell, I D have a hard enough time just getting to OpenVMS support because they+ always put me through to OpenView or HP-UX.    Mike     This newsgroup and Bill Gunshannon wrote:@ > There was a thread here about the quality of the people at theB > recently created off-shore call centers resulting in their usingB > public forums like USENET to solve customer problems.  Does that@ > explain the sudden increase in questions coming from gmail.com- > (ie. free, anonymous, throw-away) accounts?  >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:07:29 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>  Subject: Re: VMS outsourcingJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-1DB929.16072914112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  B In article <1163514949.911240.256980@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,#  "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net> wrote:   H > Not necessarily as some people (like myself) always use free throwaway- > email addresses when posting to newsgroups.   G There also appears to be a recent influx of folks using Google Groups,  ; apparently unaware that Usenet exists as a separate entity.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 08:08:58 -0800  From: "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com> Subject: Re: VMS outsourcingC Message-ID: <1163520537.987672.288430@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   . We should have a good old-fashioned flame war!   I'll start:   + Your momma is SO fat she weighs 1F4 pounds!     
 heh heh :)       madcrow wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: F > > In article <1163514949.911240.256980@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,' > >  "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net> wrote:  > > L > > > Not necessarily as some people (like myself) always use free throwaway1 > > > email addresses when posting to newsgroups.  > > J > > There also appears to be a recent influx of folks using Google Groups,? > > apparently unaware that Usenet exists as a separate entity.  > >  > > -- > > Paul Sture > H > Well, I know that USENET exists seperatly, but modern ISPs often don'tE > include a true Usenet feed in their package. Plus, Google Groups is G > just so convienent and as I'm not a warez kiddie, I don't really care 5 > that it doesn't carry the alt.binaries.* hierarchy.  > B > And Gmail addresses are NOT usually used as throwaway adressesesB > anyway. Everybody I know who has one uses Gmail as their primary
 > address.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 08:31:34 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: VMS outsourcingB Message-ID: <1163521893.943425.22300@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   madcrow wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: F > > In article <1163514949.911240.256980@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,' > >  "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net> wrote:  > > L > > > Not necessarily as some people (like myself) always use free throwaway1 > > > email addresses when posting to newsgroups.  > > J > > There also appears to be a recent influx of folks using Google Groups,? > > apparently unaware that Usenet exists as a separate entity.  > >  > > -- > > Paul Sture > H > Well, I know that USENET exists seperatly, but modern ISPs often don'tE > include a true Usenet feed in their package. Plus, Google Groups is G > just so convienent and as I'm not a warez kiddie, I don't really care 5 > that it doesn't carry the alt.binaries.* hierarchy.   G Mine doesn't.  I don't even get e-mail.  Though I use my Yahoo mail and @ then feed it to my Eudora client.  That way I don't need to keepC sending out address changes to people/subscriptions whenever my ISP  changes.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2006 17:33:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS outsourcing/ Message-ID: <4rucv4Ft4vrcU1@mid.individual.net>   B In article <1163518126.362749.69810@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,# 	"Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com> writes:  > 4 > I can't blame the offshore folks for coming here,   C I'm not "blaming" them.  I just think if this rumor turns out to be B true I would be extremely unhappy to be paying all those thousandsD of dollars for support and getting nothing I couldn't already access	 for free.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.627 ************************