1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 15 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 628       Contents: DEC VAX and EMC  Re: DEC VAX and EMC  Re: DEC VAX and EMC 4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?= Re: Hobbyist License for VAX-VMS: producer=hp v producer=dec? K Re: Itanium console:bypass its interpretation of certain control characters  Re: Most "classic" VMS version Re: OpenVMS Support Issues7 Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600  Pulling a Web Page Re: Pulling a Web Page Re: Pulling a Web Page* Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff* Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff* Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff* Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff	 Re: UNZIP 	 Re: UNZIP  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  Re: VMS outsourcing  What is "Galaxy"?  Re: What is "Galaxy"?  Re: What is "Galaxy"?  Re: What is "Galaxy"? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?  Who called me?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 13:04:53 -0800 From: jrowan@adg-us.com  Subject: DEC VAX and EMCC Message-ID: <1163538293.055187.233010@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Just thought I would ask.   F Does anyone know of Companies that ares using EMC SAN Devices with DEC
 VAX Hardware?   B I have a client who would like to talk to them to discuss the best approach to this set up.   Thanks  	 Jay Rowan  ADG  Always Helping People 
 Since 1992 314-298-1850 ext. 21   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 14:19:39 -0800 From: sean@obanion.us  Subject: Re: DEC VAX and EMCB Message-ID: <1163542778.970493.271470@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   Jay,  G AFAIK, there is no way to directly attach a VAX to a Fibre Channel SAN: @ VAXen don't have PCI busses and I can't think of any non-PCI (or derivative) FC HBAs.  G An Alpha can serve FC devices to a VAX that is in the same VMS Cluster, 3 but the VAX would not "know" anything about the FC. G The storage space that the Alpha serves to the VAX could be on any kind 	 of array, > probably including EMC.  I've done a litle of this, but not as production.   G Note that Itanium systems are not supported in VMS Clusters with VAXen, ? so Alphas as disk servers are probably the only way to do this.   D However, it might be cheaper to run a VAX emulator on the Alpha than keep the VAXen running. D I've never had the opportunity to try this, but I expect others here have.      Sean   jrowan@adg-us.com wrote: > Just thought I would ask.  > H > Does anyone know of Companies that ares using EMC SAN Devices with DEC > VAX Hardware?  > D > I have a client who would like to talk to them to discuss the best > approach to this set up. >  > Thanks >  > Jay Rowan  > ADG  > Always Helping People  > Since 1992 > 314-298-1850 ext. 21   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:49:44 -0800 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: DEC VAX and EMC) Message-ID: <op.ti0206jttte90l@hyrrokkin>   > On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:04:53 -0800, <jrowan@adg-us.com> wrote:   > Just thought I would ask.  > H > Does anyone know of Companies that ares using EMC SAN Devices with DEC > VAX Hardware?  > D > I have a client who would like to talk to them to discuss the best > approach to this set up. >  > Thanks >  > Jay Rowan  > ADG  > Always Helping People  > Since 1992 > 314-298-1850 ext. 21 > G BUY a DS10L and think of it as a "controller" in the sense that has the K HBA that talks to the SAN and it is clusterd with the VAX serves the disks. C Depending upn your availability requirements you may want redundant K connections, in which case get two DS10L's or/ maybe a PWS600 ot XP1000 and C put two HBA's in either of those, get two brocade/compaq switches    cross-couple  them to the two EMC controllers.     --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:19:48 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? 5 Message-ID: <slrnelkn94.5bi.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   p In article <1163548239.261543.207910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, sampsal@gmail.com <sampsal@gmail.com> wrote:F > What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyistG > licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to run I > more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be ( > a daydream for the foreseeable future?  8 The thinking at HP sales is probably along the lines of:  > 	"If you can afford a seriously good ane expensive server, youC 	can probably also afford to purchase commercial OpenVMS licenses."    -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:20:55 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? 5 Message-ID: <slrnelknb7.5bi.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   \ In article <slrnelkn94.5bi.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>, Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:r > In article <1163548239.261543.207910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, sampsal@gmail.com <sampsal@gmail.com> wrote:G >> What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyist H >> licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to runJ >> more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be) >> a daydream for the foreseeable future?  > : > The thinking at HP sales is probably along the lines of: > @ > 	"If you can afford a seriously good ane expensive server, youE > 	can probably also afford to purchase commercial OpenVMS licenses."   + 'ane' = 'and'. Silly typo; my apologies. :)    -Dan   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 18:13:41 -0800 From: sampsal@gmail.com = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? C Message-ID: <1163556821.499907.315250@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dan Foster wrote:  > <sampsal@gmail.com> wrote:H > > What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyistI > > licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to run K > > more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be * > > a daydream for the foreseeable future? > : > The thinking at HP sales is probably along the lines of: > @ > 	"If you can afford a seriously good ane expensive server, youE > 	can probably also afford to purchase commercial OpenVMS licenses."  > @ Apropos that, how many OpenVMS instances could an a dual EV5/466C Alphaserver 4100 with 2 gigs of RAM run comfortably? I realise this G would depend a lot on the workload, but what is the minimum requirement ? for a single instance of OpenVMS? Not too heavy I should think.   D PS: I paid 200 pounds sterling for that machine on Ebay. I thought i? was a rather good deal. The power bills on the other hand hurt.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 18:13:53 -0800 From: sampsal@gmail.com = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? A Message-ID: <1163556833.300336.45630@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Dan Foster wrote:  > <sampsal@gmail.com> wrote:H > > What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyistI > > licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to run K > > more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be * > > a daydream for the foreseeable future? > : > The thinking at HP sales is probably along the lines of: > @ > 	"If you can afford a seriously good ane expensive server, youE > 	can probably also afford to purchase commercial OpenVMS licenses."  > = Apropos that, how many OpenVMS instances could a dual EV5/466 C Alphaserver 4100 with 2 gigs of RAM run comfortably? I realise this G would depend a lot on the workload, but what is the minimum requirement ? for a single instance of OpenVMS? Not too heavy I should think.   D PS: I paid 200 pounds sterling for that machine on Ebay. I thought i? was a rather good deal. The power bills on the other hand hurt.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 18:13:58 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? C Message-ID: <1163556838.505728.238710@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Dan Foster wrote: ^ > In article <slrnelkn94.5bi.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>, Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:t > > In article <1163548239.261543.207910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, sampsal@gmail.com <sampsal@gmail.com> wrote:I > >> What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyist J > >> licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to runL > >> more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be+ > >> a daydream for the foreseeable future?  > > < > > The thinking at HP sales is probably along the lines of: > > B > > 	"If you can afford a seriously good ane expensive server, youG > > 	can probably also afford to purchase commercial OpenVMS licenses."  > - > 'ane' = 'and'. Silly typo; my apologies. :)  >  > -Dan  - According to the HP page for Galaxy pricing ( E http://h71000.www7.hp.com/swcat/us/galaxy.html ) you can run it on an C AlphaServer 4100.  You can buy A 4100 with 4 CPU's on Ebay for less C than $1000.  However the 4 CPU license for Galaxy will set you back 5 $15,980 (before any discounts, taxes, shipping fees).      John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 19:45:08 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? C Message-ID: <1163562308.689494.291230@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    sampsal@gmail.com wrote:F > What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyistG > licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to run I > more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be ( > a daydream for the foreseeable future?  B It's possible.  Hobbyist licenses are restricted to those productsD which are owned by HP (where a license doesn't cause a royalty to beG paid to someone else).  For example, due to royalty payments, Pathworks E Advanced Server is unable to be offered to Hobbyists.  But with Samba  on OpenVMS, who cares?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:54:49 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? [ Message-ID: <rdeininger-1411062254490001@dialup-4.233.173.141.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>   C In article <1163548239.261543.207910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  sampsal@gmail.com wrote:  E >What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyist F >licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to runH >more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be' >a daydream for the foreseeable future?   M Seems like a request to send directly to the manager of the hobbyist program.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:58:08 -0500 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? I Message-ID: <8660a3a10611141958v4a022d75ve9dad0deb66615a3@mail.gmail.com>   O On 14 Nov 2006 19:45:08 -0800, davidc@montagar.com <davidc@montagar.com> wrote:  > sampsal@gmail.com wrote:H > > What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyistI > > licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to run K > > more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be * > > a daydream for the foreseeable future? > D > It's possible.  Hobbyist licenses are restricted to those productsF > which are owned by HP (where a license doesn't cause a royalty to beI > paid to someone else).  For example, due to royalty payments, Pathworks G > Advanced Server is unable to be offered to Hobbyists.  But with Samba  > on OpenVMS, who cares? >  >   ; There are these GS140s sitting down in the other end of the  datacenter, unplugged and, for the moment, unused.   > I'd never talk them out of a couple, not in a million years...   WWWebb   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 20:16:44 -0800 From: sampsal@gmail.com = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? C Message-ID: <1163564204.383912.320060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Robert Deininger wrote: E > In article <1163548239.261543.207910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  > sampsal@gmail.com wrote: > G > >What are the chances that HP could be convinced to give out hobbyist H > >licenses for Galaxy and/or Tru64 Unix? I would LOVE to be able to runJ > >more than one virtual server off of my Alphaserver. Is this going to be) > >a daydream for the foreseeable future?  > O > Seems like a request to send directly to the manager of the hobbyist program.   @ I'd be happy to do that, if someone could forward me the contact! details of the person concerned.     Sampsa   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 06:18:36 GMT " From: cf <carl.fulton@verizon.net>F Subject: Re: Hobbyist License for VAX-VMS: producer=hp v producer=dec?8 Message-ID: <r65ll2556gp7ub7q44rbrrcqllm7lvrn7d@4ax.com>  F I am having the same issue with my DS10L hobby licence, the VmsCluster( doen't work. It loads but does not work. sh lic> VMSCLUSTER         HP              0  0     100    0.0  (none)
 8-NOV-2007  D %LICENSE-E-NOAUTH, DEC VMSCLUSTER use is not authorized on this nodeD -LICENSE-F-NOLICENSE, no license is active for this software product  * any ideas when or how this might be fixed?    3 On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:02:35 -0500, Stephen Hoffman ) <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> wrote:    > G >This is an error in the licenses being generated at the Hobbyist site.  > J >I expect David C. will wander through and see this message, but I'd have F >to assume here that part(s) of the DCL commands that are needed when D >generating licenses for OpenVMS I64 were erroneously activated for 
 >OpenVMS VAX.  > I >AFAIK, licenses with a producer of HP won't work on most (all?) OpenVMS  E >VAX versions, and there's no ECO to add this.  These licenses won't   >work, in simplest terms.  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:24:42 GMT # From: "FredK" <fred@nospam.dec.com> T Subject: Re: Itanium console:bypass its interpretation of certain control characters2 Message-ID: <_es6h.2464$Fb4.1023@news.cpqcorp.net>  C "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote in message  T news:rdeininger-1311062221430001@dialup-4.233.128.77.dial1.manchester1.level3.net...: > In article <00A5EA8A.7B79C4D0@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- > @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > < >>In article <tl_5h.2354$1g3.1974@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" > <fred@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >>>  >>>  >>> . >>><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message) >>>news:ej44hl$7gu$1@south.jnrs.ja.net... = >>>> In article <00A5E854.06A9859F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  >>>> @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:K >>>>>I have an application that I started on the Itanium after I logged in   >>>>>viaL >>>>>the console.  I need to type a control-B to get its attention but this  >>>>>is K >>>>>the sequence used by the management processor to get one to its menu.   >>>>>Is L >>>>>there something in the console menu I can set to change the default to  >>>>>aB >>>>>different sequence so that I can get out of this application? >>>>>  >>>>A >>>> Isn't control-B in VMS (at DCL level) the same as up-arrow ? K >>>> If the management processor is intercepting control-B won't that make   >>>> the2 >>>> console port pretty much unusable under VMS ? >>>> >>>> >>> J >>>This is only an issue when using the management processor (MP) port as  >>>theI >>>console.  If you absolutely positively need ^B - then use the COM port B >>>(disable the MP port in the console path).  ^B is apparently a  >>>long-standing6 >>>mechanism on HP servers and isn't going to go away. >>> G >>>On the upside for DELETE vs Backspace, I have convinced the console   >>>firmware L >>>people to treat both BS and DEL the same - which will eliminate the need  >>>to : >>>do a SET TERM or change terminal settings when booting. >>7 >>Alleluia!!!  Is this firmware update available yet???  > I > The only piece that currently supports the DELETE key is the Management ! > Processor on rx3600 and rx6600.  > 4 > What system(s) are you specifically interested in? > H > Customers are allowed to send requests directly to the firmware folks.L > Customers requests have more influence on priorities than do requests from > OS people.  K I exchanged mail with Robert on this - and pointed him to the bug report I  J filed with the FW group.  This bug has been reported both to the high-end M and low-end groups and will show up in a future general firmware release.  I  H don't have insight into when, and how it rolls out to platforms.  But I J would expect "new" platforms comming out to be fixed, and then the fix to ( show up when older firmware has updates.  D As Robert says, the delete issue was addresses independently by the 6 management processor folks on the 3600/6600 platforms.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:30:32 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> ' Subject: Re: Most "classic" VMS version J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-E3851D.20303214112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  / In article <4ruerdFrkgdsU1@mid.individual.net>, 5  Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> wrote:   * > On 2006-11-13 23:10, "Paul Sture" wrote: > M > > Rob's post mentioning August 1998 as the discontinuation date for Compaq  J > > reminds me that in 1999 I bought an HP LaserJet. The fact that it had L > > its own PostScript emulator rather than one licensed from Adobe made it  >           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ K > > considerably cheaper. That's HP, as well as Compaq and Apple, and in a   > > similar time frame.  > D > I've seen many PostScript documents (DEC/Compaq "command referenceH > cards" in most cases, "DSN" IIRC, mid to late 1990s) which could *not*G > be printed on these "emulators", but which obviously could be printed = > just fine on some DEC laser printers at DEC's local office.  >   H There was supposed to be a free fix in the form of a ROM or similar for E my printer, and also a much more expensive model at work. We gave up   trying to get hold of it. :-(    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:08:51 -0500 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> # Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues H Message-ID: <8660a3a10611142008v4d5d138kb7dbb49f8fc8cc92@mail.gmail.com>  ; On 11/14/06, David J Dachtera <djesys@earthlink.net> wrote:  > Hello, Gerry,  > J > In so much as I'm inclined to agree with you, even though I am an activeN > instigator (read: OpenVMS advocate), I think the fact that the issue *IS* soQ > pervasive here on the 'net speaks more loudly and eloquently than even the most  > admired of the ancients. > Q > The issue is immediate, proximate and of vital import to prolonging the life of  > the product. > Q > My take is that we need to get HP management on-board with the user community - R > that is *THE* most important issue for Encompass, this SIG and any and all other4 > groups (users, ISVs, VARs, OEMs, etc.) to address. > % > Without HP management's buy-in, ...  > @ > Well, I'm sure there's no need for me to finish that sentence. >  > David J Dachtera >  > P.S.: Q > I think it would be *HIGHLY constructive for *EVERY*one to avoid the use of the R > word "whining". It discounts and trivializes an issue that even Sue's job hinges > on.  >  > -----Original Message-----R > From: Czadowski, Gerard A (Gerry) [mailto:Gerry.Czadowski@NAV-INTERNATIONAL.COM] > , > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:37 PM& > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  >  > Fellow VMS advocates,  > F > This topic started as a plea for advocacy by Encompass regarding theJ > support issue. I believe that the SIG leadership has responded that theyG > will take up the request and address our concerns with HP management. " > Let's please give them a chance. > H > With this thread there are signs that the Encompass VMS-SIG list is onH > the verge of degenerating to the C.O.V. level of whining and going offH > topic -- the perennial lack of VMS marketing issue has reared its headG > here.  Can we please limit this noise pollution?  I'm on the verge of  > unsubscribing from this list.  >   > Thanks for your consideration. >  > -----Original Message-----: > From: Heim, Thomas W [mailto:heimtw@EXCHPTC1.SWITCH.COM], > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:04 PM& > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  >  > Greetings, > G > Not sure how many folks reading the "mainstream media" need an MES to I > run their wafer fabs, however, the folks that do have a couple of major I > players to contend with, PROMIS & Workstream, and they both run on VMS.  >  > Have Fun, 
 > TW Heim Jr.  > twhjr@HeimNet.com  > www.HeimNet.com  > OpenVMS.HeimNet.com  >  > -----Original Message-----4 > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys@comcast.net], > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:57 PM6 > To: Heim, Thomas W; VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: RE: OpenVMS Support Issues  > J > If it's not in the public eye (read: mainstream media) it's "invisible". >  > D.J.D. >  > -----Original Message-----: > From: Heim, Thomas W [mailto:heimtw@exchptc1.switch.com]+ > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 7:29 AM : > To: djesys@comcast.net; VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: RE: OpenVMS Support Issues  >  > Greetings, > * > "invisible platform, invisible products" > ( > Have you seen the most recent roadmap? > @ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm > J > I work most of the time in the area of process control and manufacturingI > and mostly in the wafer fab space.  There is a product that is utilized F > "World Wide" to help produce most of the ICs (and I mean ALL ICs notD > just processors) that everyone use in their day to day lives. ThisJ > product, PROMIS, was an early adopter of VMS on the Itanium platform and( > has been selling it for several years. > G > Maybe in your vertical market things might be drying up but please do H > not try and drag the rest of us, who are flourishing, albeit with some > support issues, down.  >  > Have Fun, 
 > TW Heim Jr.  > twhjr@HeimNet.com  > www.HeimNet.com  > OpenVMS.HeimNet.com  >  > -----Original Message-----6 > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys@EARTHLINK.NET], > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:27 PM& > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  >  > No, HP cannot do it alone. > G > The user base cannot do it alone, even throwing tons of money at ISVs F > who face the same VMS-related challenges as the user base: invisible; > platform, invisible products, etc. ("stealth marketing").  > I > In my experience, the user base consistently goes out the ISVs and asks G > when we will see their products on I64, only to be told the vendor is 1 > not going to I64, they're migrating off of VMS.  > H > So, the users are doing what they can. It's not as if we can "take ourI > ball and go home". If there were VMS-based alternatives from other ISVs D > we'd have some leverage. Such is not the case, however. As anotherG > respondent cited, even the alternative vendors are, in large measure,  > dropping VMS.  > E > The ball sits squarely in HP's court at this point. Their continued ) > inaction and/or misaction dooms us all.  >  > D.J.D. >  > -----Original Message-----: > From: Heim, Thomas W [mailto:heimtw@EXCHPTC1.SWITCH.COM]- > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 10:42 AM & > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  >  > Greetings, > I > Granted, and I think everyone agrees that HP needs to work very hard on F > damage control but is it not also a bigger responsibility of the VMSJ > user community to push back on the ISVs indicating why the use of VMS is< > a necessity for the efficient operation of their business. > H > I mean, when you look at it, it is ultimately the users that wield theH > mighty sword of the almighty CASH.  In this particular situation HP isF > limited to marketing etc where as the customer holds the real power. > H > I once worked for a company where they thought it would be a good ideaI > to push NT on PowerPCs into their customers control processes and phase G > out the dieing VMS (and this was some 10 years ago).  Needless to say I > the customers did not favor the idea and to this day I occasionally get E > asked questions about the original VMS application that is still in C > control and that company is no longer the world leader in control 
 > systems. > C > HP can not do this alone, we the user community, need to get some H > backbone and start standing up to the ISVs.  It would seem that we canH > demonstrate to HP that it would behoove them to give us better supportJ > if we joined together in the effort to increase the visibility of VMS asI > an entity and shout from the rooftops that it is alive and viable. This  > also is good business. >  > Have Fun, 
 > TW Heim Jr.  > twhjr@HeimNet.com  > www.HeimNet.com  > OpenVMS.HeimNet.com  >  > -----Original Message-----2 > From: John Zimmerman [mailto:johnz@DIGITASK.COM], > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:16 AM& > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  > D > It seems to me that the reason "it is incumbent on the folks at HP
 > OpenVMS"G > is the same reason as it is the responsibility for the folks as HP-UX F > and other Integrity based groups -- it is or should be part of their > marketing efforts. > I > Unless the folks at HP are taking the position that OpenVMS is purely a E > legacy operating system and not one which is worth any marketing to C > create incentives for current AlphaVMS and new applications to be < > developed for Integrity, then it is at least in part theirA > responsibility to promote the O/S.  I believe they do take this G > responsibility seriously (even if it might be under-funded) as I just I > returned from a DSPP workshop on Itanium development which included all  > four supported O/Ses.  >  >  > John Zimmerman > Digitask Consultants, Inc. >  >  >  >  >  > Join my Tribe friends  > -----Original Message-----: > From: Heim, Thomas W [mailto:heimtw@EXCHPTC1.SWITCH.COM], > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:45 AM& > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  >  > Greetings, > ? > OK, but... How so is it incumbent on the folks at HP OpenVMS?  >  > Have Fun, 
 > TW Heim Jr.  > twhjr@HeimNet.com  > www.HeimNet.com  > OpenVMS.HeimNet.com  >  > -----Original Message-----6 > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys@EARTHLINK.NET]+ > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:41 PM & > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  > H > If not "incumbent on the folks at HP OpenVMS", then who? (...incumbent > upon > whom?) >  > D.J.D. >  > -----Original Message-----: > From: Heim, Thomas W [mailto:heimtw@EXCHPTC1.SWITCH.COM]* > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:50 PM& > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  >  > Greetings, > J > I suppose that the *currently* "might" be implied but it would be better" > if it where stated that clearly. > 2 > "incumbent on the folks at HP OpenVMS"?  How so? >  > Have Fun, 
 > TW Heim Jr.  > twhjr@HeimNet.com  > www.HeimNet.com  > OpenVMS.HeimNet.com  >  > -----Original Message-----6 > From: bradhamilton [mailto:bradhamilton@COMCAST.NET]* > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 4:43 PM& > To: VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG% > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support Issues  >  > Heim, Thomas W wrote:  > > Greetings, > >  > >  > > % > > Slide 4 and 6 seem a bit at odds?  > I > I don't see a conflict - Cerner on OpenVMS/Integrity is not *currently* J > supported, and they will re-evaluate the situation when they test Oracle >  > 10gR2 on OpenVMS/Integrity.  > I > If this is all just a misunderstanding, it is incumbent on the folks at , > HP OpenVMS to rectify the situation, soon. >   @ I think that it would be even more constructive for everyone whoC writes HP management a letter to set it aside for 24 hours, go back E and look it over with fresh eyes, and then mail it if changes are not  deemed to be necessary.    For the same reasons.    WWWebb   -    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:37:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx36007 Message-ID: <b8b5b$455a3740$cef8887a$4530@TEKSAVVY.COM>    Robert Deininger wrote: L > The ES47 (with up to 4 EV7 CPUs) is obviously worth considering as an ES40 > replacement.      H I stand corrected. Someone had mentioned ES45, so I looked it up in the L midrange page, and it was the rightmost item and I didn't bother looking at 8 the models to the left thinking they would be lower end.  L OK, so now I have another question: between an EV68 at 1250mhz and a EV7 at L 1150mhz,  I take it that the EV68 outperforms the EV7 for raw computational G jobs but the EV7 outperforms by far for IO intensive jobs since the IO  * bandwidth is orders of magnitudes faster ?   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 16:32:15 -0800 From: lskphone@gmail.com Subject: Pulling a Web Page C Message-ID: <1163550735.747830.309040@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F I'd like to be able to pull the contents of a web page in DCL.  I justF want the full HTML... I'm planning on parsing it out myself.  It wouldB be nice if I could use OPEN on a web page. :-)  Of course, barringD that, if I can dump the HTML to a sequential file somehow, then I'll just OPEN that.    Any ideas how I can do this?  & Thank you for your time and attention.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:50:05 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Pulling a Web Page 2 Message-ID: <06111418500567_2020028F@antinode.org>   From: lskphone@gmail.com  H > I'd like to be able to pull the contents of a web page in DCL.  I justH > want the full HTML... I'm planning on parsing it out myself.  It wouldD > be nice if I could use OPEN on a web page. :-)  Of course, barringF > that, if I can dump the HTML to a sequential file somehow, then I'll > just OPEN that.   F    You could probably do it using TELNET /CREATE_SESSION to write your' own simple Web browser, but I use wget:   *       http://antinode.org/dec/sw/wget.html   There's also "curl":         http://curl.haxx.se/  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:58:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Pulling a Web Page 8 Message-ID: <c81ab$455a665c$cef8887a$20299@TEKSAVVY.COM>   lskphone@gmail.com wrote: A > I'd like to be able to pull the contents of a web page in DCL.    K If it must be done in DCL, you'd have to look at TELNET/CREATE which would  L give you some TNA device that you *might* be abld to OPEN/READ/WRITE, write L out th HTTP header and then loop READing the results. But handling the "end   of file" might be "interesting".  E Best bet is to use a utility like FETCH_HTTP (comes with the OSU web  N server) or CURL which is very powerful and can pull more than just HTTP files.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 14:04:38 -0800  From: "Jinx" <soterro@gmail.com>3 Subject: Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff B Message-ID: <1163541878.657876.14700@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  E Thank you all for your suggestions. I tried a bit from all and here's  what I got:   3 1. SHOW AUDIT/ALL doesn't tell me anything unusual.   F 2. I agree that a nonpermanent mailbox would disappear thus solving myC problem. The mailbox is created though permanent and I have to live 
 with that.   3. Output from SDA is: (sorry for wrapping)  F MBA113                                  MBX               UCB address: 81F03480  Device status:   00000010 online1 Characteristics: 0C150001 rec,shr,avl,mbx,idv,odv                   00000200 nnm   D Owner UIC [000001,000004]   Operation count          6   ORB address 81F30E80D       PID        00000000   Error count              0   DDB address 81B796F0D Class/Type          A0/01   Reference count          0   DDT address 81AA5108D Def. buf. size       3072   BOFF                  0000   CRB address 81B79E84D DEVDEPEND        00000001   Byte count            0000   LNM address 81D523B0G DEVDEPND2        00000000   SVAPTE            00000000   I/O wait queue     empty6 FLCK index             28   DEVSTS                0001 DLCK address     81B74200  Charge PID       00000000 *         *** I/O request queue is empty ***  G One thing I notice is that after each operation the parameter DEVDEPEND B is incremented (along with the operation count), otherwise nothingC changes. I couldn't find out in documentation what DEVDEPEND stands / for, or whether it makes any difference for me.   E 4. It's funny the above says it would be empty (nobody is supposed to E read it), because if I do a COPY MBA113: A.OUT between 2 operations I D get 68 bytes/operation in that file... anyway after emptying it with! copy it will still gather events.   C 5. There was a logical pointing to it - logical used by the mailbox ? creator program (program now obviously shut down as the mailbox < reference count and SHO SYS say). As soon as the logical wasC deassigned, the DEVDEPEND dropped to 0 and no other operations were : registered! What is that DEVDEPEND for a mailbox anyway???  6 Thanks again for getting me closer to understanding :) J    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:30:14 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff 8 Message-ID: <9ed8f$455a4346$cef8887a$27683@TEKSAVVY.COM>  = One possibility, but this is just **speculation** on my part:   E when you say that the audit server continues to send messages to the  H mailbox after you have set the SET AUDIT/NOLISTENER command, how do you  know this to be the case ?  K If the mailbox is created with a huge buffer, (show DEV/FULL MBAxxxx) will  F reveal this), then it may be able to store a large number of messages % before the writing process goes RWBMX   G And it could get worse. Consider the possibility that the AUDIT server  L generally buffers messages itself and waits for the reading process to read I   a message before writing the next one (there are read ASTs possible on  K mailbox devices if I remember correctly). Once the process dies, the audit  1 server could be queueing messages to the mailbox.   I SET AUDIT/NOLISTENER may stop new messages from being sent to the queue,  L but the audit server would still very much want to deliver messages already 
 in the queue.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 17:49:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff 3 Message-ID: <EwCUW+NSLbgB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <1163541878.657876.14700@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Jinx" <soterro@gmail.com> writes:   H > 2. I agree that a nonpermanent mailbox would disappear thus solving myE > problem. The mailbox is created though permanent and I have to live  > with that.  D If you "have to live with that" then the problem is overconstrained. --  N ==============================================================================0 DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -- 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 16:49:35 -0800  From: "Jinx" <soterro@gmail.com>3 Subject: Re: unassigned mailbox still gathers stuff C Message-ID: <1163551775.601869.282400@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:F > If you "have to live with that" then the problem is overconstrained.  < For the time being at least - until responsible returns fromC wilderness. But it's not that much of a problem as deassigning that B logical stops the mailbox getting filled up and a 10-lines programE deletes it for good. Problem is, I really don't get what is happening  there...  F As for JF's theory: buffer size is 3072, not that huge. I can also seeE the operation count getting upped after each login or whatever, and I D can read data gathered in the mailbox, so I suppose the audit serverE succeeds to do its thing (the test machine is otherwise unused so I'm F not expecting queues). Somehow the set audit/nolistener does not fully* do its job... (and what's that DEVDEPEND?)   Eh...  J    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:54:37 -0700 & From: Jim Mehlhop <Mehlhop@parsec.com> Subject: Re: UNZIP) Message-ID: <455A10ED.2090406@parsec.com>    David D Miller wrote:  > Folks  > J > I downloaded the three Freeware 8.0 ZIP files recently.  I noticed threeB > UNZIP.EXE files in disk 1 and disk 2 -- I didn't look on disk 3. >  > 1. Are they all ALPHA? >  > 2. If not, which is which? > I > Which leads to the general question ... there are no directories on the K > disks so there a multiple identical file names, like README and MAKEFILE. @ > Sorting all that out is quite a chore.   Has anyone done that? >  > dave.  > G Haven't looked at the freeware disks, but I assume there are multiples  - so that you can unzip the files on that disk.   - To see if it is an alpha executable simply do    $an/im disk:[dir]unzip.exe  / on the Alpha  if it works it is the alpha image    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:53:56 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> Subject: Re: UNZIP) Message-ID: <ejdad6$17l7$1@pyrite.mv.net>    David D Miller wrote:   J > I downloaded the three Freeware 8.0 ZIP files recently.  I noticed threeB > UNZIP.EXE files in disk 1 and disk 2 -- I didn't look on disk 3. >  > 1. Are they all ALPHA? >  > 2. If not, which is which? > I > Which leads to the general question ... there are no directories on the K > disks so there a multiple identical file names, like README and MAKEFILE. @ > Sorting all that out is quite a chore.   Has anyone done that?    H    I'd constructed an aggregate "big zip" of the Freeware before HP and G I had parted ways.  The three existing Freeware CD disks, consolidated    into one bigger Freeware distro.  F    I'd thought the big zip file had been uploaded to the external FTP G server, but even so, free disk space on the external server might well   be an issue.  A    As for duplicate files on the Freeware distro, you should see  H 000TOOLS, FREEWARE and INTOUCH directories on each disk, and probably a I couple of other directories.  These directories are complete duplicates.  C   To "pack" these as part of constructing a bigger distro, you can  D BACKUP/REPLACE to overwrite similarly-named files can be used here. F Details on the duplicate directories can be found in the files in the I FREEWARE directory, as it is that area that contains the tools that were  ) used to build the Freeware distro itself.   G    The 000TOOLS directories have architecture-specific subdirectories,  A with an unzip.exe and selected other tools for each of the three  H architectures.  The 000TOOLS is found on each disk of the Freeware.  If I you're seeing other duplicated files around -- files that aren't part of  I one of these duplicated directories -- I'm not immediately certain where   or what those might be.   H    Crunching down the Freeware disks would also imply that the existing H menu system data files will need to be rebuilt -- details on doing that H rebuild are also in the FREEWARE directory.  Look for the references to H the InTouch tools.  Those menu data files are disk-specific, and you'll A need to rebuild the entire menu -- that's not a big deal, it's a  B half-dozen commands you need to execute -- to cover the resulting I aggregated disk.  This rebuild (only) if you want to use the menu system  7 on the resulting consolidated Freeware disk, of course.   G    I don't know what happened to the whole-disk Freeware big zip.  Ah,  G well...  If/when a new Freeware distro edition gets sorted out for the  + next OpenVMS release is another discussion.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:52:54 -0700  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?& Message-ID: <455A2CA6.7000902@srv.net>   madcrow wrote:E > As an OS that was used at plenty of college campuses, there seem to C > have been plenty of games for VMS. While some "smaller" games are H > available for playing at the Deathrow Cluster, I haven't found sourcesG > to build them, nor even executables. Since I might eventually want to D > set up my own VMS site at home, it would be great if someone couldD > point me to this stuff. Also, VMS seems to have been a hub for theC > development of rogue-likes (especially the early Moria line) Does < > anyone know where I can get VMS Moria or IMORIA or BOSS (aI > future-setting derivitaive of Moria that only exists on VAX/VMS and the  > Macintosh...)  >    And here is another old game  / http://members.tripod.com/~rancourt/default.htm   Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2006 23:52:22 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?, Message-ID: <ejdkrm02vcu@enews4.newsguy.com>    Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote: > And here is another old game  1 > http://members.tripod.com/~rancourt/default.htm   G Has anyone actually gotten this running?  I'd love to give DnD on a DEC 
 system a try!    	Zane    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 17:54:34 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?C Message-ID: <1163555674.208688.241150@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:" > Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote:  > > And here is another old game > 3 > > http://members.tripod.com/~rancourt/default.htm  > I > Has anyone actually gotten this running?  I'd love to give DnD on a DEC  > system a try!  >  > 	Zane   A And I'd like to play it again.  I remember many an hour wasted in D college playing DND on Rose's ( www.rose-hulman.edu) system.  ThoughD for the life of me I can't remember if it was the VAX or the PDP.  IF always thought it was on the VAX but looking at the site given above IF wonder if I remembered wrong. I had a copy of the source we ran but itD accidentally got wiped when an operator initialized the wrong set ofG 9-tracks at one of the places I worked.  A pity too as there had been a ; number of customizations done by one of the local students.      John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:46:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: VMS outsourcing7 Message-ID: <dd704$455a3953$cef8887a$4530@TEKSAVVY.COM>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > I'm not "blaming" them.  I just think if this rumor turns out to be D > true I would be extremely unhappy to be paying all those thousandsF > of dollars for support and getting nothing I couldn't already access > for free.   E In fairness, once the newbies get their footing, they may be able to  F quickly ramp up and provide service levels superior to what exists on I c.o.v. simply because they will learn to access resources such as source  " code, the notes databases etc etc.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Nov 2006 22:10:01 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS outsourcing/ Message-ID: <4rut5pFt7e6kU1@mid.individual.net>   7 In article <dd704$455a3953$cef8887a$4530@teksavvy.com>, 0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >> I'm not "blaming" them.  I just think if this rumor turns out to beE >> true I would be extremely unhappy to be paying all those thousands G >> of dollars for support and getting nothing I couldn't already access  >> for free. > G > In fairness, once the newbies get their footing, they may be able to  H > quickly ramp up and provide service levels superior to what exists on K > c.o.v. simply because they will learn to access resources such as source  $ > code, the notes databases etc etc.   Hahahahahahahahaha.   A But seriously....  There is probably more than a few centuries of D experience here on c.o.v.  The newbies being hired to replace peopleA like Hoff will need several decades to even come close to what HP A has thrown away.  And, remember, this was a cost saving measure.  D Considering what these people are likely to be paid, I hardly expectD there is a lot of incentive for them to become experts.  If they areF truly ambitious, they would be better off spending their time studying9 for their MSCE.  Much greater return on their investment.   C The only potential good that may come of this for VMS users is that B there is a strong likelihood the source to VMS will show up on the; INTERNET shortly after it reaches the shores of the Ganges.    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:14:21 GMT + From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=  Subject: Re: VMS outsourcing2 Message-ID: <1dr6h.22877$E02.9556@newsb.telia.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote :   F > Considering what these people are likely to be paid, I hardly expect9 > there is a lot of incentive for them to become experts.   E As I've underestood, one of the largest "problems" those IT companies ? in India have right now, is to keep those that have gained just A some experiense. Very few stays more then 1-2 years with the same  employer...   	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Nov 2006 01:35:55 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: Re: VMS outsourcing+ Message-ID: <ejdqtr0pju@enews1.newsguy.com>   ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  > Hahahahahahahahaha.   C > But seriously....  There is probably more than a few centuries of F > experience here on c.o.v.  The newbies being hired to replace peopleC > like Hoff will need several decades to even come close to what HP C > has thrown away.  And, remember, this was a cost saving measure.    L Given the turnover rate in these places I somehow doubt that they'll ever be" able to provide real tech support.  E > The only potential good that may come of this for VMS users is that D > there is a strong likelihood the source to VMS will show up on the= > INTERNET shortly after it reaches the shores of the Ganges.   K And this would be beneficial in what way?  As I see it, such a breach would ! likely cause more harm than good.    		Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Nov 2006 02:06:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS outsourcing/ Message-ID: <4rvb0kFsqaahU1@mid.individual.net>   + In article <ejdqtr0pju@enews1.newsguy.com>,  	healyzh@aracnet.com writes:+ > Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  >> Hahahahahahahahaha. > D >> But seriously....  There is probably more than a few centuries ofG >> experience here on c.o.v.  The newbies being hired to replace people D >> like Hoff will need several decades to even come close to what HPD >> has thrown away.  And, remember, this was a cost saving measure.  > N > Given the turnover rate in these places I somehow doubt that they'll ever be$ > able to provide real tech support. > F >> The only potential good that may come of this for VMS users is thatE >> there is a strong likelihood the source to VMS will show up on the > >> INTERNET shortly after it reaches the shores of the Ganges. > M > And this would be beneficial in what way?  As I see it, such a breach would # > likely cause more harm than good.  >   B Harm to who?  My point was that even though it is unlikely that HPA would ever see fit to release the real sources to VMS (as opposed C to the listings which can be purchased but can not be used to build B VMS) history has shown that the workers in these third world shopsB have no problem doing it, especially as their legal systems do not@ see it as a crime.  So HP would obviously loose, but at least it@ might eliminate the possibility that when HP decided there is no@ longer a future in VMS (cash cow is laying on back with all fourA legs sticking up) the source will not just disappear like so many > others have.  I see that as a plus for those still running it.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 15:08:12 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>  Subject: What is "Galaxy"?. Message-ID: <mddfyclg5ar.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  K I've seen references from time to time to some facility on (Open)VMS called + "Galaxy", apparently related to clustering.   O The reason I'm curious is that in the 36-bit world, "GALAXY" is the name of the N complex of programs that handles user-operator communications, batch and printK spooling, and disk and tape mount/dismount processing.  It is common across N Tops-10 and TOPS-20, thanks to some very fancy Macro work.  It includes systemK programs called QUASAR (the message processor), ORION (the backend operator M process), BATCON, and OPR (the frontend operator command processor), all tied M together with IPCF.  In the TOPS-20 v6 time frame, when the HSC50 was brought N out and clustering was introduced, the inter-system message processor was partK of GALAXY as well, called NEBULA.  (Tops-10 called its tape handler PULSAR, - while TOPS-20 was more prosaic, with MOUNTR.)   J Now, that may not seem relevant to VMS, but towards the end of life of theN 36-bit line at Digital, there was a small manual (the folding-card size) whichN was a mini-reference for the OPR program across Tops-10, TOPS-20, *and* *VMS*.M So was the name Galaxy ever associated in the VMS world with the same sort of  thing as in 36-bit land?   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 12:37:49 -0800) From: "DaveG" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>  Subject: Re: What is "Galaxy"?C Message-ID: <1163536669.006487.245060@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Rich Alderson wrote:M > I've seen references from time to time to some facility on (Open)VMS called - > "Galaxy", apparently related to clustering.  > Q > The reason I'm curious is that in the 36-bit world, "GALAXY" is the name of the P > complex of programs that handles user-operator communications, batch and printM > spooling, and disk and tape mount/dismount processing.  It is common across P > Tops-10 and TOPS-20, thanks to some very fancy Macro work.  It includes systemM > programs called QUASAR (the message processor), ORION (the backend operator O > process), BATCON, and OPR (the frontend operator command processor), all tied O > together with IPCF.  In the TOPS-20 v6 time frame, when the HSC50 was brought P > out and clustering was introduced, the inter-system message processor was partM > of GALAXY as well, called NEBULA.  (Tops-10 called its tape handler PULSAR, / > while TOPS-20 was more prosaic, with MOUNTR.)  > L > Now, that may not seem relevant to VMS, but towards the end of life of theP > 36-bit line at Digital, there was a small manual (the folding-card size) whichP > was a mini-reference for the OPR program across Tops-10, TOPS-20, *and* *VMS*.O > So was the name Galaxy ever associated in the VMS world with the same sort of  > thing as in 36-bit land? >  > --N > Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |N > news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |N > "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |N >                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |    2 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/availability/galaxy.html   HTH,   Dave...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:10:41 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> Subject: Re: What is "Galaxy"?) Message-ID: <ejdbcj$1803$1@pyrite.mv.net>    Rich Alderson wrote:M > I've seen references from time to time to some facility on (Open)VMS called - > "Galaxy", apparently related to clustering.   D    OpenVMS Galaxy is soft-partitioning within certain OpenVMS Alpha E systems.  In HP-speak, OpenVMS Galaxy is a form of vPars; of virtual  I partitioning.  OpenVMS Galaxy is based on how the SRM console works, and  G on how instances of OpenVMS can directly coordinate and communicate as  C peers while running in parallel within the same Alpha box; without  H requiring an underlying virtual machine.  It is not related to the TOPS & usage, nor to operator communications.  5    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/availability/galaxy.html   H    IMHO, the OpenVMS OPCOM and related operator mechanisms are arguably G not as developed as what I recall of the analogous TOPS mechanisms and  F capabilities.  Over the years, there have been various stories around H how this particular difference originated -- I'll leave it to others to  relay those.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:18:52 +0100 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>  Subject: Re: What is "Galaxy"?/ Message-ID: <4ruqefFtbjd2U2@mid.individual.net>   + On 2006-11-14 21:08, "Rich Alderson" wrote:   M > I've seen references from time to time to some facility on (Open)VMS called - > "Galaxy", apparently related to clustering.   ? "HP OpenVMS Alpha Partitioning and Galaxy Guide" (OpenVMS 8.2), E <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-rezqe-te/aa-rezqe-te.HTMl>    > [...]    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:31:50 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?5 Message-ID: <slrnelk9tm.5bi.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   k In article <1163535898.213996.55540@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter <gezelter@rlgsc.com> wrote:  > I > The base operating system and the layered products are mostly available B > under the Hobbyist program for personal, non-commercial use. See- > http://www.openvmshobbyist.org for details.   A He mentioned '...still have to do my job' which suggests (but not 4 necessarily always) a commercial setup of some sort.  G I'm guessing that may be why he hasn't gone the Hobbyist Program route.    -Dan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:52:54 GMT + From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?2 Message-ID: <G0q6h.22867$E02.9529@newsb.telia.net>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote :   >  > You will need: > A VMS base licenseK > A VMS User License to cover the maximum number of simultaneous users. In  ; > the late 90's these sold for something like $300 per seat  > A DECWindows License > A TCP/IP Services License , > Add Compilers (C, Fortran, etc.) to taste.   Why does he *need* DECWindows ? 4 I've run VMS systems for 15 years and can't remember' ever entering any DECWindows license...     1 (Another thing I'd like to know, is *why* he need 2 to get an 785 (VAX 11/785 ?) up-n-running !? :-) )   Regards,	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:44:48 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?: Message-ID: <adSdnYguto4nt8fYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Rich Alderson wrote:K > I've been remiss in researching a question, and beg the indulgence of the  > group in getting an answer.  > O > I have to set up a 785 running VMS.  The hardware was at one time used to run M > Berkeley Unix, and has passed through at least two pairs of hands since, so M > no licenses for VMS are available to transfer.  In order to obtain licenses M > for the system, I need to know what should be on a VMS system beyond the OS 7 > itself, in order to provide a basic  user experience.  > I > Feel free to make fun of me; doesn't matter, I still have to do my job. P > Replies in private mail will be summarized back to the group unless explicitly > requested otherwise. > & > Thanks for any help you can provide. >    You will need: A VMS base licenseF A VMS User License to cover the maximum number of simultaneous users. < In the late 90's these sold for something like $300 per seat A DECWindows License A TCP/IP Services License * Add Compilers (C, Fortran, etc.) to taste.  G I hope you've got a BIG budget, these things were never cheap and they  F haven't gotten any cheaper.  And that's IF you can find someone at HP  who can sell them to you.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:21:57 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?) Message-ID: <ejdc1n$185l$1@pyrite.mv.net>    Rich Alderson wrote:  O > I have to set up a 785 running VMS.  The hardware was at one time used to run M > Berkeley Unix, and has passed through at least two pairs of hands since, so M > no licenses for VMS are available to transfer.  In order to obtain licenses M > for the system, I need to know what should be on a VMS system beyond the OS 7 > itself, in order to provide a basic  user experience.   H    The UCX (TCP/IP Services) and DECnet licenses -- or the NET-APP-SUPP E NAS license packages, which can include IP and DECnet -- are the two  : most common choices, as these provide baseline networking.  F    For application development, DECset adds CMS, MMS, LSE and various  other tools.  G    If the users are programmers, you can get various compilers off the  G Freeware (eg: Bliss) and you may/will want other commercial compilers.  8 The native Macro32 assembler is included in OpenVMS VAX.  E    There's an official limit around how new a version of OpenVMS VAX  F will be supported here; the VAX-11/785 was officially retired a while H back.  The newest release with official support from HP is likely V6.2, E but V7.3 will probably boot (slowly) on a moderately well-configured  D VAX-11/785.  The retirement of this box was IIRC due to the lack of I ready CD-ROM media support within this platform.  AFAIK, the bits needed  D to boot the VAX-11/785 have not been removed -- but then, no one is 2 probably testing the bootstrap of the box, either.  I    If this is a scholastic or hobbyist (non-commercial) application, you  C can potentially acquire the requisite software licenses at no cost  C through the available associated licensing programs.  If this is a  H commercial application, you might be able to purchase a replacement box B for the cost of the power and maintenance needed to keep this box G running, whether a newer (real) VAX (or Alpha) box, or a CHARON-VAX or   SIMH VAX emulation.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:39:31 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?: Message-ID: <BJGdnXGx_I0QqsfYnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > Richard B. Gilbert wrote : >  >> >> You will need:  >> A VMS base license I >> A VMS User License to cover the maximum number of simultaneous users.  ? >> In the late 90's these sold for something like $300 per seat  >> A DECWindows License  >> A TCP/IP Services License- >> Add Compilers (C, Fortran, etc.) to taste.  >  > ! > Why does he *need* DECWindows ? 6 > I've run VMS systems for 15 years and can't remember) > ever entering any DECWindows license...  >  > 3 > (Another thing I'd like to know, is *why* he need 4 > to get an 785 (VAX 11/785 ?) up-n-running !? :-) ) > 
 > Regards, > Jan-Erik.   > Well, he didn't say.  If he can afford the electric bill, the ? airconditioning bill and the licenses then more power to him!!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:59:25 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?7 Message-ID: <8f194$455a4a64$cef8887a$4856@TEKSAVVY.COM>   L In addition to the standard Digital software, you'll want utilities such as D KERMIT for serial/tcp communications.  XMODEM/YMODEM file transfers  (VVSB/VVRB),  N For web server on vax, you have choice of OSU Web server and WASD web servers.  N A 780/785 is a vintage VAX. So don't expect to do real time 3d modeling on it.  G You can go to http://www.hp.com/go/vms and scroll down to click on the  ; "Freeware" where you'll find lots of the standard software.   L There are lots of utilities for system managers (such as DFU) there as well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:01:30 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?9 Message-ID: <5fednTp8zoqw-sfYnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rich Alderson wrote:K > I've been remiss in researching a question, and beg the indulgence of the  > group in getting an answer.  > O > I have to set up a 785 running VMS.  The hardware was at one time used to run M > Berkeley Unix, and has passed through at least two pairs of hands since, so M > no licenses for VMS are available to transfer.  In order to obtain licenses M > for the system, I need to know what should be on a VMS system beyond the OS 7 > itself, in order to provide a basic  user experience.  > I > Feel free to make fun of me; doesn't matter, I still have to do my job. P > Replies in private mail will be summarized back to the group unless explicitly > requested otherwise. > & > Thanks for any help you can provide. >    To answer the question:    Base VMS Networking, DECnet and TCP/IP 
 User licenses   F Some bits are knocking around in my feeble brain.  So, a question, is D this for some type of 'museum', perhaps for Paul Allen?  If so, I'd K think that's non-commercial, and the hobbyist program would be appropriate.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2006 16:39:19 -0800 From: lskphone@gmail.com Subject: Who called me? C Message-ID: <1163551159.886784.167580@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F I want a function -- written in C, BASIC, or, heck, even COBOL -- that? returns the name of the module that invoked the function.  This D information must be available to VMS, since it is visible in a stackD dump.  However, I can't track down any RTL routine that can pull theA current stack of called modules (lib$signal won't do, of course). C Therefore, I am appealing to the collective knowledge and wisdom of F this usenet group.  Assuming I've made myself clear... Has anyone done this before?  If so, how?   & Thank you for your time and attention.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.628 ************************