1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 17 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 632       Contents:. Re: A place where non-mention of VMS is good !. Re: A place where non-mention of VMS is good !. Re: A place where non-mention of VMS is good !( Re: application failover with RDB access Re: DS25 with 1000BaseT NIC  Re: DS25 with 1000BaseT NIC  Re: DS25 with 1000BaseT NIC 4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?4 Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance?- Re: HP's quarter results are now in the press - Re: HP's quarter results are now in the press - Re: HP's quarter results are now in the press 7 Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600 + Re: Programatically determining TCPIP stack  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History?  Re: VMS Gaming History? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system? = Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?  Re: Who called me?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:12:09 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 7 Subject: Re: A place where non-mention of VMS is good ! J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-F3C0E8.02120917112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  9 In article <r6udnQ4UaaaLn8DYnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@libcom.com>, )  Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   J > The browser is a particular case.  One could argue that for many people K > a browser is all they ever need, which would blow a big hole in sales of  I > windows to lots of folks.  I could see a dedicated system, just enough  K > to run a stand-alone browser.  Microsoft had some justification for this   > fear.   G A nearby cafe has just implemented such a solution for internet access  H for customers. Either use your own wireless enabled laptop for free, or B rent one of their systems by the hour. Those systems are from the H Win98/ME era (cheap replacements available if needed) and are running a + well locked down Linux/browser combination.   H Effectively what you describe above, with no Windows purchases required.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:36:31 -0800 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>7 Subject: Re: A place where non-mention of VMS is good ! : Message-ID: <WKednap3MqSVocDYnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>   Michael D. Ober wrote:  O > I'm not surprised to see multiple MS products on the list.  When you control  N > 90+ % of the market in both OS's (combine server and workstations) and 90+% O > of the common office business apps, you are the single biggest target on the   > network.    B If windows was 10 times more secure than VMS it would still be the- primary target for virus writers and hackers.    -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:56:56 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: A place where non-mention of VMS is good ! 8 Message-ID: <455d4f0e$0$22851$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:D > If windows was 10 times more secure than VMS it would still be the/ > primary target for virus writers and hackers.    No.   H Windows is a target because the default installations left most windows L machines very easy to compromise and hence when weenies know how easy it is + to compromise windows, they get interested.   L And yes, because Windows is so widespread, any virus ends up having a large . impact and as a result, the media's attention.  D But if the mainstream OS didn't have such easily compromised holes, F breaking into Windows wouldn't have become a sport for script kiddies.  F In the big picture however, when you have a whole bunch of new people I entering an arena (eg: consumer getting computers and hooking them up to  / the internet), there is to be a learning curve.   @ In recent couple of years, while we have had a constant flow of J vulnerability announcements, their impact has been not as important since H more and more users have some protection and have learned not to double  click on attachements.  L However, the argument FOR VMS still stands: you don't need to spend so much J time to constant protect your machines from possible viri.  The fact that L Windows vir don't spread as much is an indication that corporations are now L spending resources to ensure their fleet of Windows machines are protected.  And that costs a lot of money.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 11:05:33 -0800! From: "Nazim" <nmanser@progis.de> 1 Subject: Re: application failover with RDB access B Message-ID: <1163703933.390636.275880@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   Richard Maher schrieb:   > Hi Nazim,  > % > > it is neither cologne nor munich. 6 > Frankfurt? How's the Spring workload shaping up? :-)  ! neither, located outside Germany.      > + > Anyway, what downtime window do you have?   F in production, the maintenance window must be scheduled in advance and8 involving a lot of other teams (downstream applications)E before doing such test in prod, it must habe been tested successfully  in the test env.    E but i have to do it first in the test environment, problem is that it & consists of only 1 standalone machine.G i have to ask responsables for configuring the test environment similar B to prod (.ie. 2 node cluster with quorum duisk and shared storage)   > All I can suggest, on the K > information that you've given, is that you go in early one Sunday morning E > and shut down the application on MP1 followed by a close of all the I > databases. Then *before anything else* do a full off-line backup of all K > databases (probably followed by a complete rmu/verify if you haven't been 
 > doing them.   + we backup daily the RDB in hot backup mode.  the DB remains open.  > if i do $rmu/verify/root is that sufficient ? it takes 13 min.  ? > On second thoughts, best not to ask too many questions eh :-) M > Then open the database(s) and applications up on OP1 and let the testers do L > their work. If the System Startups/UAFs/logicals/configs and specs are the! > same then I forsee no problems.    i have checked  $ system startups from a common source# UAF , rightslist from a common area F logicals and config are centralized, only a parameter decides on which node the app runs.    - > Does the RDMS$RUJ logical point to the same / > place on all nodes? Anything in sys$specific?   ' SYSMAN> do show log /all /full rdms$ruj / %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node QRM 6    "RDMS$RUJ" [exec] = "DB_DISKRUJ" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)7 1  "DB_DISKRUJ" [exec] = "DSA617:[RDMS$RUJ]" [terminal]  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)/ %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node OP2 6    "RDMS$RUJ" [exec] = "DB_DISKRUJ" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)7 1  "DB_DISKRUJ" [exec] = "DSA617:[RDMS$RUJ]" [terminal]  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)/ %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node OP1 6    "RDMS$RUJ" [exec] = "DB_DISKRUJ" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)7 1  "DB_DISKRUJ" [exec] = "DSA617:[RDMS$RUJ]" [terminal]  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)/ %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node MP2 6    "RDMS$RUJ" [exec] = "DB_DISKRUJ" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)7 1  "DB_DISKRUJ" [exec] = "DSA617:[RDMS$RUJ]" [terminal]  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)/ %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node MP1 6    "RDMS$RUJ" [exec] = "DB_DISKRUJ" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)7 1  "DB_DISKRUJ" [exec] = "DSA617:[RDMS$RUJ]" [terminal]  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)     > I > In summary Nazim, apart from the suck-it-and-see approach, I see no way 
 > forward. > N > The one question I'd be sure to ask yourself before attempting the fail-overH > is "when was the last time that I've had to do a production restore inN > anger?". If the answer ends up "Buggered if I know!" then I suggest that youN > practice restoring the database to the test box, maybe rolling forward AIJs, > enabling AIJs again. >   E on the test box AIJ is disabled. i have to enable it, when they agree  to increae the disk space    disk space status in  test.   D root file , SNP and RDA ---> DSA1:   2,5 GB free of a total of 18 GBE SNP and RDA              ----> DSA2:  1,6 GB free of a total of 18 GB E SNP and RDA              -----> DSA3: 2,8 GB free of a total of 18 GB  and RUJ      disk space status on prod   E root file, RDA & SNP   ------> DSA618 15,7 GB free of a total of 69,5  GBF RDA & SNP                ------> DSA621 6,3 GB free of a total of 8 GBE AIJ                            -------> DSA616 4,2 GB free of a total  of 8 GB E RUJ                          --------> DSA617 almost all free of 8 GB  total       5 > Are you running circular AIJs or single/extensible?   )       - After-image journaling is enabled .       - Database is configured for 70 journals$       - Reserved journal count is 70%       - Available journal count is 36        - LogMiner is disabled4       - Journal switches to next available when full9       - 1 journal has been modified with transaction data ;       - 34 journals can be created while database is active "       - Journal "AIJ35" is current#       - All journals are accessible $       - Shutdown time is 120 minutes0       - Backup operation is automatic via server$         - Backup uses no-quiet-point2       - Default backup filename edits are not used'       - Log server startup is AUTOMATIC D       - Operator notification is enabled for the following operators           Central            Cluster %       - Journal overwrite is disabled 2       - AIJ cache on "electronic disk" is disabled3       - Default journal allocation is 250000 blocks 1       - Default journal extension is 25000 blocks D           Default extension ignored because multiple journals active7       - Default journal initialization is 250000 blocks    > ALS?  G OpenVMS V7.3  on node MP1  16-NOV-2006 19:51:47.90  Uptime  14 12:25:31 F   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts Pages F 23200430 RDMS_MONITOR    LEF     15   160402   0 00:01:09.79    110471    88 F 23200561 RDM_ALS_1       HIB     15   211180   0 00:02:56.15       219   314 F 23200643 RDM_ALS_2       HIB     15     6253   0 00:01:18.45       402   491        >You don't sayJ > you're running hot-standby but you are running DDAL; what transfers will > stop when you switch over?  E the DDAL is only replicating a subset of data destined to the public. : its purpose is only selective nature not for availability.   > ! > Do you have a support contract?   ! i was engaged to do the work. :-)   , > If so call Oracle Rdb support for help. IfG > not, someone should bring this to the attention of the manager of the N > dickhead that made that decision! Probably the same dickhead that sacked all& > the real DBAs in the first place :-( >   > You're on your own. Good-Luck. >  > Regards Richard Maher  > 7 > $ pipe rmu/dump/head mf_personnel | sea sys$pipe node  >     Maximum node count is 168 >       - WARNING: Maximum node count is 16 instead of 1 > . > "Nazim" <nmanser@progis.de> wrote in message? > news:1162990172.492625.213000@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  > >  > > Richard Maher schrieb: > >  > > > Hi Nazim,  > > > F > > > > that is why i was assigned the task to ensure correct failover > > > > strategy.  > > > N > > > And you're a contractor right? (Or you boss is a contractor?) Let's hope > the E > > > customers not reading this eh :-) I'd love to know how much the  > contract'sM > > > for, but then it's Cologne and not Munich and it's none of my business.  > > >  > > % > > it is neither cologne nor munich.  > > J > > yes i am contractor, my boss is permanent and only since 1 year, so he! > > inherited the stuff as it is. K > > My role is to implement the failover scenario of our app, including the  > > underlying RDB. H > > the RDB stuff was implemented long time ago, and the team left sinceK > > and the handover was not done correctly to my boss. (since he was there D > > all worked fine, last time the DB was opened is over a year ago. > >  > > $ > > MP1>rmu/show system sql$database= > > Oracle Rdb V7.0-61 on node EVAMP1 10-OCT-2006 11:22:47.97 G > >     - monitor started  6-NOV-2004 11:12:09.67 (uptime 703 00:10:38) E > >     - monitor log filename is "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]RDMMON.LOG;77"  > > 1 > > database DSA0:[DDAL.DATABASE]DDAL$TR_DB.RDB;1 E > >     - first opened 11-NOV-2005 14:18:37.78 (elapsed 332 21:04:10) + > >     * database is opened by an operator - > >     - current after-image journal file is 1 > > TPZH_DAL_DB_DISKA01:[AIJ]DDAL_AIJ001.AIJ;1559 " > >     - AIJ Log Server is active! > >     - 2 active database users , > >     - database also open on these nodes:
 > >       OP1  > >  > > this is our prod DB  > > / > > database DSA618:[DB_DISK001.DB]DMG_DB.RDB;1 E > >     - first opened 15-MAY-2005 07:08:43.83 (elapsed 513 04:14:04) + > >     * database is opened by an operator I > >     - current after-image journal file is DB_DISKA02:[AIJ]AIJ18.AIJ;1 A > >     - global buffer count is 30000; 20550 global buffers free 5 > >     - maximum global buffer count per user is 100 0 > >     - global section resides in system space" > >     - AIJ Log Server is active# > >     - 190 active database users  > >  > > K > > > Anyway, is there not a UAT or other test environment that this can be  > tested > > > in first?  > > >  > > D > > unfortunately the UAT environment is on a standalone VMS machine > >  > > K > > > I'll assume not. When you do an RMU/DUMP/HEADER on the database(s) do  > theyM > > > say number of cluster nodes is "1"? If they do then you'll have to make  > sureK > > > the databases are closed on MP1 before trying to open them on OP1. If  > not I > > > just open them up on both nodes and fire up the application on both  > nodes G > > > (if it's cluster tolerant) and get the application testing people  > involved.  > >  > > K > > on the RMU/DUMP/HEADER there is no reference of cluster nodes, the only  > > reference is9 > > in the case of the DDAL database is also open on OP1.  > >  > > it is the node numbers.  > >  > > ! > > MP1>search ddal_dump.txt node   > >     Maximum node count is 16: > >       - WARNING: Maximum node count is 16 instead of 1  > > MP1>search dmg_dump.txt node- > >     Maximum node count is 1    ----> yes.  > >  > > I > > but what if MP1 crashes ? is there any danger to open the database on  > > the other node ? > >  > > K > > our application is designed to be run only on 1 node at a time, but the 8 > > RDB can be opened also on OP1 as a standby solution.J > > OK before doing this i must close DB on MP1, then open on MP1 and OP1. > > J > > i have to implement the application failover scenario on the VMS side,K > > and the testing activities can only be done in a very restricted window  > > on the week end. > > I > > i have first to implement the theoretical stuff, then schedule a test 	 > > plan.  > >  > > > N > > > > so as you say, the RMU/open should be done on both MP1 and OP1 as soon! > > > > as they reboot. correct ?  > > > N > > > No, I was suggesting that the beauty of VMS clusters and Rdb is that youN > > > don't have to "fail-over" because, personally, I would open the database > and K > > > the application on all of the nodes all of the time. If MP1 goes down  > thenL > > > there would be a pregnant-pause followed by MP1 users having to log inN > > > again, but that's it. The cluster took a lickin' but it kept on tickin'.J > > > With Rdb partitioned lock trees and all the work VMS engineering has > beenM > > > doing with the DLM *and* the new interconnect stuff coming along, I see  > noB > > > point in restricting a database to one node. (Never have :-) > > G > > this was done by other team, and they did not document why they did  > > that like this.  > >  > > > L > > > The fact that you're using Data Distributor (why?) leeds me to suspect > thatJ > > > not all disks are accessible cluster wide or there's something dodgy > withH > > > the application. Our DR used to be copying RBFs over to the mirror	 > machine N > > > and restoring them and rolloing forward AIJs. Once every couple of yearsN > > > we'd be forced to run in DR for a week and then switch back with no loss > ofN > > > data. They were *never* able to get the Unix systems to achieve the sameL > > > thing! (They'd just get someone to log on and that would be that. i.e.K > > > production never shifted) VMS guys were moving to a Disaster Tolerant  > set up > > > when I left. > > 8 > > do you mean by data distributor the DDAL$TR_DB.RDB ? > > 1 > > all the DSAn disks are accessible clustewide.  > >  > > > J > > > My *guess* is everything will be ok except for DNS cache flushes andL > > > hard-coded SQL/Services server names. (But then, if I was getting paid > to do  > > > it, I'd make sure :-)  > > I > > the application specific sqlservices are setup identically on MP1 and  > > OP1  > > J > > DNS cache switch needs also be checked with the downstram applications7 > > which connects to our RDB, but thats another story.  > >  > >  > > regards, > >  > > Nazim Manser > >  > > >  > > > Regards Richard Maher  > > > 2 > > > "Nazim" <nmanser@progis.de> wrote in messageC > > > news:1162981579.381769.299700@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  > > > >  > > > > Richard Maher schrieb: > > > >  > > > > > Hi Nazim, 	 > > > > > K > > > > > If this system runs anything other "Mom and Dad's corner Deli VAT 
 > > > return" L > > > > > then I suspect that you (or the company you support) are in in big > > > trouble!N > > > > > Get yourself a professional DBA and pay them what they ask to do the > job K > > > > > properly. The questions turning up here (and more so in the ITRC)  > about 	 > > > Rdb L > > > > > are truly frightening. I wish I could find out who these companies > are 	 > > > and K > > > > > turn up to their next risk-assessment or shareholders meeting :-(  > > > > F > > > > that is why i was assigned the task to ensure correct failover > > > > strategy.  > > > > 	 > > > > > L > > > > > Anyway no one can answer your question directly unless they know a > bit 
 > > > moreF > > > > > about MP and OP. I suggest "yes" but if you've never tried a
 > failover > > > beforeN > > > > > then what are the extra machines there for. The fact that you appear > to > > > beN > > > > > running Data Distributor raises an eyebrow, but my advice is to open > the I > > > > > database on *all* nodes and use them *all* *all* of the time in 
 > possibly > > > a ) > > > > > wide-are cluster configuration. 	 > > > > >  > > > > A > > > > MP1 and OP1 are on 2 sites but share the samefile system.  > > > > to be precise  > > > > 7 > > > > the file layout of the RDB stuff is as follows:  > > > > 8 > > > > root file location :      dsa618:[db_disk001.db]3 > > > > RDA & SNP files:     dsa618:[db_disk001.db] = > > > >                                dsa618:[db_disk002.db] = > > > >                                dsa618:[db_disk003.db] ; > > > > AIJ files:                   dsa616:[db_diskA01.db] = > > > >                                dsa616:[db_diskA02.db] 4 > > > > RUJ files                  dsa617:[rdms$ruj] > > > >  > > > >  > > > > MP1>sh dev dsa618  > > > > M > > > > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  > > > > Trans Mnt N > > > >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks > > > > Count Cnt N > > > > DSA618:                 Mounted              0  DMG_DB        32582436 > > > > 7696   4H > > > > $1$DGA230:    (OP2)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA618:)H > > > > $1$DGA430:    (MP1)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA618:) > > > > MP1>sh dev dsa621  > > > > M > > > > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  > > > > Trans Mnt N > > > >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks > > > > Count Cnt N > > > > DSA621:                 Mounted              0  DMG_DB2       12936924 > > > >    5   4H > > > > $1$DGA214:    (OP2)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA621:)H > > > > $1$DGA414:    (MP1)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA621:) > > > > MP1>sh dev dsa616  > > > > M > > > > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  > > > > Trans Mnt N > > > >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks > > > > Count Cnt N > > > > DSA616:                 Mounted              0  DMG_AIJ        8673228 > > > >  100   4H > > > > $1$DGA210:    (OP2)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA616:)H > > > > $1$DGA410:    (MP1)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA616:) > > > > MP1>sh dev dsa617  > > > > M > > > > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  > > > > Trans Mnt N > > > >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks > > > > Count Cnt N > > > > DSA617:                 Mounted              0  DMG_RUJ       17359776 > > > >  165   4H > > > > $1$DGA211:    (OP2)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA617:)H > > > > $1$DGA411:    (MP1)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA617:) > > > >  > > > > : > > > > usually a RMU/open on that DB is done only on MP1.H > > > > i would like to know what happens, when in case of failover (MP1- > > > > crashes) i do a RMU/open on OP1 node.  > > > > I > > > > as it is a mission critical production DB, i want to be sure 100% * > > > > before updating our documentation. > > > > N > > > > so as you say, the RMU/open should be done on both MP1 and OP1 as soon! > > > > as they reboot. correct ?  > > > > D > > > > i an new (2 months) and i inherited, the task to support the, > > > > application and its underklying RDB. > > > >  > > > > regards, > > > >  > > > > Nazim Manser > > > > I > > > > > Rdb engineering hates clusters 'cos Norm doesn't get to use his 	 > beloved 2 > > > > > Row-Ca$h, but don't let that bother you.	 > > > > >  > > > > > Regards Richard Maher 	 > > > > > 6 > > > > > "Nazim" <nmanser@progis.de> wrote in messageG > > > > > news:1162918356.022076.305610@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > M > > > > > > we are running RDB (Oracle Rdb V7.0-61), SQLSERVICES (v7.1-59) on  > a 5 $ > > > > > > node cluster on 2 sites. > > > > > > OpenVMS V7.3 > > > > > >  > > > > > >  > > > > > > site 1:  > > > > > > - > > > > > > MP1  sys$sysroot = DSA200:[SYS0.] - > > > > > > MP2  sys$sysroot = DSA200:[SYS1.]  > > > > > >  > > > > > > site 2:  > > > > > > - > > > > > > OP1  sys$sysroot = DSA100:[SYS0.] - > > > > > > OP2  sys$sysroot = DSA100:[SYS1.] , > > > > > > QRM sys$sysroot = DSA300:[SYS0.] > > > > > > F > > > > > > our application runs on node MP1 and uses the following DB1 > > > > > > database DSA618:[DB_DISK001.DB]DB.RDB  > > > > > > > > > > > > > but for failover scenario we need to do a RMU/OPENL > > > > > > DSA618:[DB_DISK001.DB]DB.RDB on node OP1, are there any problems > doing  > > > > > > this ? > > > > > > L > > > > > > RDB is started on nodes MP1 and OP1 but in normal operations the > DBL > > > > > > database DSA618:[DB_DISK001.DB]DB.RDB is opened only on node MP1 > > > > > > # > > > > > > thanks for your answers  > > > > > >  > > > > > > N.Manser > > > > > >  > > > > > >  > > > > > > & > > > > > > SYSMAN> do rmu/show system; > > > > > > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node QRM I > > > > > > %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and 
 > spelling > > > > > >  \RMU\; > > > > > > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node OP2 : > > > > > > %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image RDMPRV& > > > > > > -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file2 > > > DSA100:[SYS1.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]RDMPRV.EXE;8E > > > > > > -SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed ; > > > > > > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node OP1 B > > > > > > Oracle Rdb V7.0-61 on node OP1  7-NOV-2006 17:40:14.74E > > > > > >     - monitor started  8-APR-2006 22:29:10.31 (uptime 212  > 19:11:04) N > > > > > >     - monitor log filename is "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]RDMMON.LOG;107"9 > > > > > > database DSA0:[DDAL.DATABASE]DDAL$TR_DB.RDB;1 M > > > > > >     - first opened  8-APR-2006 22:30:00.82 (elapsed 212 19:10:13) 5 > > > > > >     - current after-image journal file is 0 > > > > > > DB_DISKA01:[AIJ]DDAL_AIJ001.AIJ;1575* > > > > > >     - AIJ Log Server is active) > > > > > >     - 2 active database users 4 > > > > > >     - database also open on these nodes: > > > > > >       MP1 ; > > > > > > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node MP2 : > > > > > > %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image RDMPRV& > > > > > > -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file2 > > > DSA200:[SYS1.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]RDMPRV.EXE;8E > > > > > > -SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed ; > > > > > > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node MP1 B > > > > > > Oracle Rdb V7.0-61 on node MP1  7-NOV-2006 17:40:13.59M > > > > > >     - monitor started  2-NOV-2006 07:36:25.92 (uptime 5 10:03:47) M > > > > > >     - monitor log filename is "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]RDMMON.LOG;79" 3 > > > > > > database DSA618:[DB_DISK001.DB]DB.RDB;1 K > > > > > >     - first opened  2-NOV-2006 08:32:01.47 (elapsed 5 09:08:12) 3 > > > > > >     * database is opened by an operator 5 > > > > > >     - current after-image journal file is  > DB_DISKA01:[AIJ]AIJ25.AIJ;1 I > > > > > >     - global buffer count is 30000; 22250 global buffers free = > > > > > >     - maximum global buffer count per user is 100 8 > > > > > >     - global section resides in system space* > > > > > >     - AIJ Log Server is active+ > > > > > >     - 156 active database users 9 > > > > > > database DSA0:[DDAL.DATABASE]DDAL$TR_DB.RDB;1 K > > > > > >     - first opened  2-NOV-2006 07:37:17.02 (elapsed 5 10:02:56) 5 > > > > > >     - current after-image journal file is 0 > > > > > > DB_DISKA01:[AIJ]DDAL_AIJ001.AIJ;1578* > > > > > >     - AIJ Log Server is active) > > > > > >     - 2 active database users 4 > > > > > >     - database also open on these nodes: > > > > > >       OP1  > > > > > >  > > > >  > >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:48:07 GMT % From: Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> $ Subject: Re: DS25 with 1000BaseT NIC2 Message-ID: <Hn27h.2589$K85.2227@news.cpqcorp.net>  1 glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: A > It is usual to use a four pair straight cable between 1000baseT C > NICs, no crossover needed.  It both transmits and receives on all F > four pairs at the same time, so there is no need for a crossover.  I1 > believe a four pair crossover should work, too.   A It should, and I think it would also work for 100BT with AutoMDIX 6 support - but I doubt that older NICs would have that.  
 rick jones --  = denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth... C                                      where do you want to be today? F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)E feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 15:41:50 -0800< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>$ Subject: Re: DS25 with 1000BaseT NICC Message-ID: <1163720510.331396.176460@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   5 Do yourself a favor and get a little Gigabit  switch. E Myself i use a Dlink DS2208 10/100/1000 8 port which I bought new for C $30 (after $10 coupon). The 5 port 2205 - and the 8 port can be had " from $25 - $75 depending on sales.@ It autonegotiates, auto crossovers and is otherwise transparent.   fwiw,  Hein.    stinehelferw wrote: F > I have a newly purchased DS25 running OpenVMS with both 100BaseT and  > 1000BaseT NIC cards installed.E > Using LANCP "sh dev/par"  I see both card and the appear configured  > correctly.M > Using UCX "sh inter/full I only see the 100 with IP/Netmask, etc configured ( > correctly plus a loopback at 127.0.0.1K > looking at the console prompt environment settings I see yet both the 100  > and 1000. F > I do not get any activity light on the 1000 with a cable plugged in. > The 100 works fine.  > . > I am connecting to a Windows XP box for FTP.: > The Windows box has a separate 100 and 1000 NIC as well.M > The 100 again works fine with a crossover cable and I can FTP till the cows  > come home.K > The same cable connected between the two high speed NICs does nothing for  > me.  > 	 > Anyone?    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 22:05:28 -0800 From: stinehelferw@excite.com $ Subject: Re: DS25 with 1000BaseT NICB Message-ID: <1163743528.761954.264510@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > Rick Jones wrote: 5 > > glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:  > C > >>It is usual to use a four pair straight cable between 1000baseT E > >>NICs, no crossover needed.  It both transmits and receives on all H > >>four pairs at the same time, so there is no need for a crossover.  I3 > >>believe a four pair crossover should work, too.  > E > > It should, and I think it would also work for 100BT with AutoMDIX : > > support - but I doubt that older NICs would have that. > D > When I make four pair crossovers, I also cross (1,2) and (7,8) butC > others don't.  As far as I know, either will work with 1000baseT, 5 > but it might be that not all implementations do it.  > 	 > -- glen   E The main issue I have right now is the NIC showing up consistently in  UCX sh inter  D I did run TCPIP$CONFIG.COM today and was able to change the settings> for 1000baseT NIC successfully.  Then stop and restart Network	 Services. = This resulted in the NIC showing up in UCX sh inter properly.     The 100BT NIC is always visible.  > However, when I reboot the computer it looses the info for theF 1000BaseT NIC and goes back to the default just showing the 100BT NIC.  - Apparently a volitale vs static memory issue.   B I know of the Registry.data file and tried deleting before runningA TCPIP$CONFIG and rebooting.  It rebuilt the registry at bootup as ? expected, but still didn't show the 1000BaseT NIC.  Under these D conditions though, the NIC LEDs do flash during bootup.  This is the" only activity I see on the lights.   What I am missing?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:52:52 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? 9 Message-ID: <pq2dnWPu_81aLsHYnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@libcom.com>    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: ! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > Q >> I'm just worried what would happen if HP cancelled the VMS hobbyist program at L >> some point in the future would all those hobbyist Alphas and Vaxes become >> expensive paperweights  ? >> > I > While it doesn't keep me up nights, I do think about that occasionally. F >  I have a heavy investment in DEC/Compaq/HP VMS related gear and I'dG > really, really, REALLY hate to have to run Linux on it.  I'd probably - > shoot it first and put it out of my misery.  >   I It would depend upon whether you wish to play along with those who would  I have just stabbed you in the back.  It's been stated many times that the  G license system wasn't intended to secure systems.  It can be bypassed.  I I think that such techniques would surface and then you'd have to decide  I to abide the knife in your back, or pull it out and stuff it up HP's ass.   I I personally don't expect such to happen, but, the hobbyist PAKs do have   1 year life limits.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:55:45 -0800 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>= Subject: Re: Galaxy and Tru64 Hobbyist licenses - any chance? : Message-ID: <F4udnWgrvbbmr8DYnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com>   Dave Froble wrote:   (snip)  K > It would depend upon whether you wish to play along with those who would  K > have just stabbed you in the back.  It's been stated many times that the  K > license system wasn't intended to secure systems.  It can be bypassed. I  I > think that such techniques would surface and then you'd have to decide  K > to abide the knife in your back, or pull it out and stuff it up HP's ass.   E You can also set the clock back.  It would be a little inconvenient,  D though.  It might be that you would have to go through the disk and / subtract one year from all the file times, too.   > There are many ways to cheat, it is nice not to have to do it.   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:16:01 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: HP's quarter results are now in the press8 Message-ID: <d7f91$455cf150$cef8887a$11172@TEKSAVVY.COM>  
 Sue wrote:( > HP Reports Fourth Quarter 2006 Results    G Sue, do the reports mention BCS performance at all ?  I had heard that  F Alpha sales had been very brisk in the last couple of months. Will be B interesting to see what happens now that HP has stopped selling a  profitable product.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:59:24 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>6 Subject: Re: HP's quarter results are now in the press? Message-ID: <MP77h.216986$3D1.112432@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Sue wrote:) >> HP Reports Fourth Quarter 2006 Results  >  > I > Sue, do the reports mention BCS performance at all ?  I had heard that  H > Alpha sales had been very brisk in the last couple of months. Will be D > interesting to see what happens now that HP has stopped selling a  > profitable product.   Y http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=71087&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=932290&highlight=     Enterprise Storage and Servers  G Enterprise Storage and Servers (ESS) reported revenue of $4.7 billion,  = up 4% over the prior year period. On a year-over-year basis,  I industry-standard server revenue increased 9%, with blade revenue growth  I of 38%. Networked storage revenue grew 1%, with revenue growth of 11% in  H the midrange EVA line offset by declines in the high-end array and tape B businesses. ****Business critical systems revenue declined 4%, as F Integrity systems growth of 77% was offset by declines in PA-RISC and G Alpha.***** Operating profit was $502 million, or 10.7% of revenue, up  L from a profit of $404 million, or 9.0% of revenue, in the prior year period.   ===    I've highlighted the BCS bit...    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:13:38 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>6 Subject: Re: HP's quarter results are now in the press> Message-ID: <6187h.136650$3x1.91557@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Sue wrote:) >> HP Reports Fourth Quarter 2006 Results  >  > I > Sue, do the reports mention BCS performance at all ?  I had heard that  H > Alpha sales had been very brisk in the last couple of months. Will be D > interesting to see what happens now that HP has stopped selling a  > profitable product.      Here's another bit@                                               Three months endedG                                        -------------------------------- G                                        October 31, July 31, October 31, E                                            2006      2006     2005(a) G                                        ----------- -------- -----------    Net revenue:  F       Industry Standard Servers           $ 2,731  $ 2,466     $ 2,507F       Business Critical Systems               997      833       1,037F       Storage                                 942      834         932G                                        ----------- -------- ----------- F      Enterprise Storage and Servers         4,670    4,133       4,476    D                                                  Twelve months endedA                                                       October 31, G                                                 ----------------------- E                                                    2006       2005(a) G                                                 ----------- -----------    Net revenue:  F       Industry Standard Servers                 $   10,133  $    9,530F       Business Critical Systems                      3,656       3,812F       Storage                                        3,519       3,375G                                                 ----------- ----------- F      Enterprise Storage and Servers                 17,308      16,717G                                                 ----------- -----------    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:37:06 -0500 . From: "Carl Friedberg" <frida.fried@gmail.com>@ Subject: Re: Performance comparison Alpha ES40 vs Itanium rx3600I Message-ID: <890539d90611162137t60b3af04re6ca24cf00435fb5@mail.gmail.com>   < On 11/11/06, Jack Patteeuw <jack.patteeuw@nospam.net> wrote: > <snip> > E > Actually, if this is a cluster, adding anther ES40, 4x833Mhz **IS** G > pretty inexpensive these days, except for the licenses) !  Heck, used J > equipment dealers (and eBay'ers) are practically giving away ES40 500Mhz > CPU boards ! >    Jack,   D Stay away from ES40 500mhz boards. There's a firmware race conditionG which can hit even 2-processor models (single processor not a problem).   H Field service, upon massive pressure and escalation, did upgrade EV6/500E to a special-run EV67/500. The ES40 was on both hardware and software  support (7x24x4hr).   E The Quad EV67/833, though, is a great machine, and at current prices, 
 a real steal.   A I have only seen ES45 / 1-to-4 processor / 1000mhz on ebay. Well, C I did see one quad ES45 1250; I wish I had bought it. I'm sure more  will come up, though.   > The ES45/1000 model 2 has some restrictions on the way you canD configure memory. I believe the largest module you can install (with@ a total of 8 modules, or 32 DIMMs) is 4GB; but that is a special@ module with lower power consumption, I believe. The model 2 uses: 720 W power supplies, newer models use 1080 watt supplies.  F With 4 PCI buses, the ES45 can crank out a lot more I/O than the ES40.  > You can also find these as SC45 (components of a supercomputer	 project).    Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 23:18:45 +01006 From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: Programatically determining TCPIP stack, Message-ID: <455cf1d5$1@news.langstoeger.at>  Z In article <ejhpj9$4tp$1@news.process.com>, "Richard Whalen" <WhalenR@process.com> writes:M >I suppose that you could say that these tell what is running, but I like the  >tests that I posted earlier.   H And I like the UCX compatibility of TCPware and Multinet which makes theM testing worthless. Build all for UCX and it runs on all (important) stacks...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:55:29 +0000 (UTC) , From: Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi>  Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?' Message-ID: <ejifnh$jut$1@news.oulu.fi>   ( Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: > Mikko Putkonen wrote: & > > Galen <gltackett@gmail.com> wrote:J > >> Was the old HAUNT game ever ported to VMS? I saw it on TOPS-10 (?) atC > >> DECUS around 1978-1980 but never heard anything else about it.  > > C > > According to http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/laird/haunt.html :  > > J > >   "Haunt was written in OPS-4, which in turn was written in Interlisp H > >   and it was never ported to any other machines, so I'm afraid that  > >   Haunt is really dead.   A > The PDP-10 dies long ago, before microprocessors came into use.   " Thanks.  I do know that much... ;)     -Mikko   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 14:15:27 -0800+ From: "madcrow" <madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?B Message-ID: <1163715327.368064.41500@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Rich Alderson wrote:  K > The biggest problem for Haunt on Tops-10 or TOPS-20 is the loss of the v5 O > Fortran run-time system, FOROTS.  The earliest I've got on any of my personal O > tapes, or any in the collection here, is v6 FOROT6 (along with FOROT7, FORO10 O > and FORO11).  The game dies on startup when it can't map the OTS into memory.  > 7 > That's true on real hardware as well as on emulators.   G Well, I know for a fact that I've PLAYED haunt on the twenex.org within E the last week. Clearly either someone still has The Fortram 5 runtime F or they've hacked it to mork with a newer FORTRAN. I have wondered whyG nobody even did a non-PDP-10 implementation of HAUNT though? Why didn't  it ever make it to VMS or UNIX?    Proof: WELCOME TO TWENEX.ORG   + Type 'HELP NEW-USER'  for a command summary ) Type 'HELP GAMES'     for a list of games 1 Type 'TOPS20'         for an interactive tutorial    @haunt    This is HAUNT. Version 4.6   See NEWS for news.   Have you played before?[yes]  *     <  We are at an intersection of two streets going n-s and e-w.  There is a bus stop here.:  To the west a bus is pulling away from the next bus stop.   *    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:31:31 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?9 Message-ID: <r6udnQkUaaa4nsDYnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Mikko Putkonen wrote: * > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >> Mikko Putkonen wrote:& >>> Galen <gltackett@gmail.com> wrote:J >>>> Was the old HAUNT game ever ported to VMS? I saw it on TOPS-10 (?) atC >>>> DECUS around 1978-1980 but never heard anything else about it. C >>> According to http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/laird/haunt.html :  >>> J >>>   "Haunt was written in OPS-4, which in turn was written in Interlisp H >>>   and it was never ported to any other machines, so I'm afraid that  >>>   Haunt is really dead.  > B >> The PDP-10 dies long ago, before microprocessors came into use. > $ > Thanks.  I do know that much... ;) >  >  > -Mikko  H I expected as much.  I was just laying the groundwork for the statement E about how an emulator on current hardware just might out-perform the   fastest PDP-10.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:55:44 -0500 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?H Message-ID: <8660a3a10611161655u3712c80wfefce659ee34613d@mail.gmail.com>  I On 13 Nov 2006 14:04:08 -0800, madcrow <madcrow.maxwell@gmail.com> wrote: E > As an OS that was used at plenty of college campuses, there seem to C > have been plenty of games for VMS. While some "smaller" games are H > available for playing at the Deathrow Cluster, I haven't found sourcesG > to build them, nor even executables. Since I might eventually want to D > set up my own VMS site at home, it would be great if someone couldD > point me to this stuff. Also, VMS seems to have been a hub for theC > development of rogue-likes (especially the early Moria line) Does < > anyone know where I can get VMS Moria or IMORIA or BOSS (aI > future-setting derivitaive of Moria that only exists on VAX/VMS and the  > Macintosh...)  >  >   D To extract a second meaning from the title of your post, VMS is used# extensively in the casino industry.   K After all, they've *got* to keep up with all the money they're raking in...    WWWebb --   Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COLLAPSE").com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:26:29 -0800 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?: Message-ID: <rIudnepqE5gzpMDYnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@comcast.com>   Dave Froble wrote:   (snip)  H > But if there is a case for a defense for me, my feeble memory is that I > the first microprocessors such as the 4004 and such came out in a 1981  I > timeframe.  Could be wrong.  General time when the 10 was discontinued.   < The 8080 came out in 1974, the 4004 was a few years earlier.  The 8086 came out in about 1979.   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:43:05 -0600 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org>   Subject: Re: VMS Gaming History?5 Message-ID: <slrnelqfep.5bi.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   l In article <rIudnepqE5gzpMDYnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@comcast.com>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  > (snip) > I >> But if there is a case for a defense for me, my feeble memory is that  J >> the first microprocessors such as the 4004 and such came out in a 1981 J >> timeframe.  Could be wrong.  General time when the 10 was discontinued. > > > The 8080 came out in 1974, the 4004 was a few years earlier." > The 8086 came out in about 1979.   4004 launch: November 15, 1971.    8008 launch: April 1972.   8080 launch: April 1974.   8086 launch: June 1978.    8088 launch: June 1979.   * Didn't DEC discontinue the PDP-10 in 1982?   -Dan   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 16:43:30 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?. Message-ID: <mdd3b8jf4ot.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  + "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> writes:   N > The basic (non-MOTIF/Workstation) implementation is complete on the kit. YouL > will likely need to have a TCP/IP package (either the HP product or one of& > the products from Process Software).  L The 785 has Ethernet, and non-DECnet networking is desirable.  How early did@ TCP/IP go into (Open)VMS rather than being a third-party add-on?  F > If you are going to be doing programming (other than MACRO, which isL > included) you will need one or more compilers, probably from HP, There wasJ > also a GNU C implementation, and it worked quite well, I have used it in  > several production situations.  K I had thought about Fortran, C, and Pascal (if there was one), and possibly K talk to the folks at Kednos about PL/1 once the system is running.  I don't L know how much COBOL was done on the VAX, as my COBOL days ended 25 years ago3 when I moved full-time from IBM gear to the DEC-20.   / Bliss has also been suggested, but that's free.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 16:45:50 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?. Message-ID: <mddzmardq0h.fsf@panix5.panix.com>   healyzh@aracnet.com writes:   ( > Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:  I >> In article <1163535898.213996.55540@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Bob ' >> Gezelter <gezelter@rlgsc.com> wrote:   K >>> The base operating system and the layered products are mostly available D >>> under the Hobbyist program for personal, non-commercial use. See/ >>> http://www.openvmshobbyist.org for details.   D >> He mentioned '...still have to do my job' which suggests (but not7 >> necessarily always) a commercial setup of some sort.   J >> I'm guessing that may be why he hasn't gone the Hobbyist Program route.  I > Without knowing what he's up to, I suspect this is for a Museum.  Which K > brings up another interesting question, would the Hobbyist licenses cover * > use as a Museum exhibit in a Non-Profit?  N Interesting question, but not directly relevant either, since I don't work for! a non-profit entity at this time.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 16:54:15 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?. Message-ID: <mddpsbndpmg.fsf@panix5.panix.com>   bob@instantwhip.com writes:     [snip] H > you better get TCPware for an IP stack as it is still supported and is5 > backwards compatible with older versions of vms ...   B TCPware = UCX, right?  That may answer my question, then.  Thanks!   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 16:48:09 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?. Message-ID: <mddvelfdpwm.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  5 "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:    > You will need: > A VMS base licenseH > A VMS User License to cover the maximum number of simultaneous users. > > In the late 90's these sold for something like $300 per seat > A DECWindows License > A TCP/IP Services License , > Add Compilers (C, Fortran, etc.) to taste.  N We're not looking to do graphical work on the 785, so DECwindows isn't needed.+ Number of users hasn't been decided as yet.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 16:59:00 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?. Message-ID: <mddmz6rdpej.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  : Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> writes:  J >    The UCX (TCP/IP Services) and DECnet licenses -- or the NET-APP-SUPP G > NAS license packages, which can include IP and DECnet -- are the two  < > most common choices, as these provide baseline networking.  O Again, how early does UCX appear in VMS?  If I run an early version, am I going M to have to do things via a terminal server?  (We've done this for our Tops-10 7 system, which never had a TCP/IP stack in general use.)   J Umm, if UCX = TCPware, as I think I understand from some of the networking7 posts in c.o.v., then it may work in our "application".   H >    For application development, DECset adds CMS, MMS, LSE and various  > other tools.  L When I first read your response, I saw that as "DECnet", which is not one ofN the things we're planning on using.  A private response also made reference to( the desirability of DECset.  What is it?  I >    If the users are programmers, you can get various compilers off the  I > Freeware (eg: Bliss) and you may/will want other commercial compilers.  : > The native Macro32 assembler is included in OpenVMS VAX.  K I hadn't thought about Bliss, although I remember when it was made free:  I K used that announcement to get Digital to similarly release Bliss-36 so that ) my PPoE could offer it on Toad-1 systems.   G >    There's an official limit around how new a version of OpenVMS VAX  H > will be supported here; the VAX-11/785 was officially retired a while J > back.  The newest release with official support from HP is likely V6.2, G > but V7.3 will probably boot (slowly) on a moderately well-configured  F > VAX-11/785.  The retirement of this box was IIRC due to the lack of K > ready CD-ROM media support within this platform.  AFAIK, the bits needed  F > to boot the VAX-11/785 have not been removed -- but then, no one is 4 > probably testing the bootstrap of the box, either.  L I've got install tapes for 6.0 and 6.2.  I've heard (in c.o.v., as I recall)I that 7.3 will run on a 785, but we might not choose to push the envelope. , We're really looking in the other direction.  K >    If this is a scholastic or hobbyist (non-commercial) application, you  E > can potentially acquire the requisite software licenses at no cost  E > through the available associated licensing programs.  If this is a  J > commercial application, you might be able to purchase a replacement box D > for the cost of the power and maintenance needed to keep this box I > running, whether a newer (real) VAX (or Alpha) box, or a CHARON-VAX or   > SIMH VAX emulation.   I It's semi-commercial, but emulation defeats the entire purpose behind the G project.  It's the difference between the PDPplanet.org systems and the   emulator at twenex.lonestar.org.  M Thanks for the suggestion, though.  I plan to use SimH VAX (and most probably K Charon-VAX as well) the same way I use SimH PDP-10 and KLH10 for the 36-bit D systems, to try things out before mucking about on the public boxes.   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 16:52:23 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?. Message-ID: <mddslgjdppk.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   N > In addition to the standard Digital software, you'll want utilities such as F > KERMIT for serial/tcp communications.  XMODEM/YMODEM file transfers  > (VVSB/VVRB),  N Kermit-32 and CKermit are free, of course, and not licensed HP.  FdC and I are old friends, so that's covered.   G > For web server on vax, you have choice of OSU Web server and WASD web 
 > servers.   Not needed, but thanks.   L > A 780/785 is a vintage VAX. So don't expect to do real time 3d modeling on > it.   
 We don't. :-)   I > You can go to http://www.hp.com/go/vms and scroll down to click on the  = > "Freeware" where you'll find lots of the standard software.   N > There are lots of utilities for system managers (such as DFU) there as well.   Thanks for the pointer.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Nov 2006 17:04:50 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?. Message-ID: <mddk61vdp4t.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   J >    And you're hardly the only one with a 785 to take care of.  I got oneB >    several months ago.  It refuses to stop running, but I had to7 >    unremember some commands that VMS 4.7 didn't have.   L It's not that I'm the only with a 785, but that we don't have licenses to goM with the 4th-hand hardware we acquired from a broker.  I'm trying to find out N what a reasonable user of that vintage system would expect to see, probably inK a university setting.  (Though we won't try to simulate the load averages.)    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:13:45 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?2 Message-ID: <06111616134525_2020028F@antinode.org>  3 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>   D > TCPware = UCX, right?  That may answer my question, then.  Thanks!  G    Wrong.  TCPIP is the new name for UCX.  TCPware is a non-HP product.          http://process.com/ +       http://process.com/tcpip/tcpware.html    > [...] DECset.  What is it?  G    Development tools: MMS (like "make"), CMS (revision control), and so  on.   /       http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/decset.html   G > It's semi-commercial, but emulation defeats the entire purpose behind  > the project.  [...]   H    So what's the project?  Why the mystery,?  Too embarassing?  National	 security?   G    On the bright side, the Info-Zip programs should be good (unless you E go back beyond VMS V5.4, where they haven't been tested for a while).   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:21:57 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-3CF455.23215716112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  . In article <mddpsbndpmg.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,5  Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:    > bob@instantwhip.com writes:  > 	 >  [snip] J > > you better get TCPware for an IP stack as it is still supported and is7 > > backwards compatible with older versions of vms ...  > D > TCPware = UCX, right?  That may answer my question, then.  Thanks!  ; UCX, latterly known as TCP/IP Services was produced by DEC  ; TCPware is a separate product, supplied by Process Software > Multinet is another product, also supplied by Process Software  I All 3 provide TCP/IP stacks. Since you mention having tapes for VMS V6.0  H and V6.2, I think you are talking about UCX V4.n or later. I don't know 0 about TCPware or Multinet versions for that era.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:45:05 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?: Message-ID: <Dt6dnRCBXt13dMHYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com>   Rich Alderson wrote:   > bob@instantwhip.com writes:  > 	 >  [snip]  > H >>you better get TCPware for an IP stack as it is still supported and is5 >>backwards compatible with older versions of vms ...  >  > D > TCPware = UCX, right?  That may answer my question, then.  Thanks! >    TCPware != UCX  D TCPware is a third party product.  Used to be sold by TGV Inc but I & think they were bought out by someone.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:00:43 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?1 Message-ID: <v467h.2629$5e5.567@news.cpqcorp.net>    Paul Sture wrote:   4 > DECset is a development environment consisting of: > B > CMS - Code Management System - handles multiple versions of codeD > MMS - Module(?) Management System - used for building applications > SCA - Source Code Analyzer! > LSE - Language Sensitive Editor  > ?   - Test manager >  > <snip> >    CMS, MMS, SCA, LSE, and    DTM - DEC Test Manager' PCA - Performance and Coverage Analyzer   H However, some of those tools like LSE and SCA didn't appear until later 5 on.  VMS V3 timeframe if my failing memory serves me.      --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:25:51 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?8 Message-ID: <c1abf$455cf39e$cef8887a$18962@TEKSAVVY.COM>   John Reagan wrote:5 >> DECset is a development environment consisting of:  >>C >> CMS - Code Management System - handles multiple versions of code E >> MMS - Module(?) Management System - used for building applications  >> SCA - Source Code Analyzer " >> LSE - Language Sensitive Editor >> ?   - Test manager     C Note that you can install individual components of DECset and each  J component can have its own licence. For instance, I installed only MMS so + that some software kits could build on VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:53:12 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?9 Message-ID: <VcqdnfmDoLenlcDYnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rich Alderson wrote: > bob@instantwhip.com writes:  > 	 >  [snip] I >> you better get TCPware for an IP stack as it is still supported and is 6 >> backwards compatible with older versions of vms ... > D > TCPware = UCX, right?  That may answer my question, then.  Thanks! >   " Actually, no.  TCPware is NOT UCX.  * TCPware was developed by Process Software.  I Another TCP/IP was developed, renamed several times, and now is known as  2 Multinet, and currently owned by Process Software.  F The DEC product was called UCX (Ultrix connection), until version 5.0 : which is fairly recent, and is now called TCP/IP Services.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:07:02 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukF Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?, Message-ID: <ejj1vm$mg5$2@south.jnrs.ja.net>  | In article <paul.sture.nospam-BE3F38.23252716112006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:/ >In article <mdd3b8jf4ot.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, 6 > Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: > J >> I don't know how much COBOL was done on the VAX, as my COBOL days endedC >> 25 years ago when I moved full-time from IBM gear to the DEC-20.  > = >A surprising amount of COBOL was done on VAX for commercial  G >applications. It was a natural choice for those moving from mainframe   >environments to VAXen.  > F Quite a few companies also wrote commercial applications in VAX BASIC.  
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >--  >Paul Sture    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Nov 2006 01:02:25 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?, Message-ID: <ejj1n101b41@enews3.newsguy.com>  4 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: > healyzh@aracnet.com writes:   K > > Without knowing what he's up to, I suspect this is for a Museum.  Which M > > brings up another interesting question, would the Hobbyist licenses cover , > > use as a Museum exhibit in a Non-Profit?  L > Interesting question, but not directly relevant either, since I don't work' > for a non-profit entity at this time.   L Not relevant to for you, but it is for me as soon as we get our building :^)I Though I don't know if we'll be trying to do any operational exhibits, or  just static.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:20:03 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?9 Message-ID: <LJKdnSSkFusbk8DYnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rich Alderson wrote:< > Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org> writes: > K >>    The UCX (TCP/IP Services) and DECnet licenses -- or the NET-APP-SUPP  H >> NAS license packages, which can include IP and DECnet -- are the two = >> most common choices, as these provide baseline networking.  > Q > Again, how early does UCX appear in VMS?  If I run an early version, am I going O > to have to do things via a terminal server?  (We've done this for our Tops-10 9 > system, which never had a TCP/IP stack in general use.)   I Early VAX systems had boards for connecting 8 and 16 serial lines.  They  @ caused lots of overhead on the VAX system.  Interrupts and such.  B Terminal servers are a much better connection method.  But you're I thinking they need DECnet or TCP/IP.  Neither.  They use LAT, a somewhat  G low level protocol which works great with terminal servers.  It's part  ? of the OS, but, needs to be started as part of the OS start-up  G procedure.  The start-up is in the template files provided with the OS.   I TCP/IP will allow for Telnet connections.  Definitely more overhead than  H LAT, but doesn't require special hardware.  If you run a decent version   of TCP/IP this is a good option.  L > Umm, if UCX = TCPware, as I think I understand from some of the networking9 > posts in c.o.v., then it may work in our "application".  > I >>    For application development, DECset adds CMS, MMS, LSE and various   >> other tools.  > N > When I first read your response, I saw that as "DECnet", which is not one ofP > the things we're planning on using.  A private response also made reference to* > the desirability of DECset.  What is it?  H You might want to reconsider DECnet.  Even if you don't use it over the G network, it can still do a few things on the 'local' system.  Phase IV  E is a rather small load on any VAX.  It's also good for connecting to    terminal server 'console' ports.  J >>    If the users are programmers, you can get various compilers off the J >> Freeware (eg: Bliss) and you may/will want other commercial compilers. ; >> The native Macro32 assembler is included in OpenVMS VAX.  > M > I hadn't thought about Bliss, although I remember when it was made free:  I M > used that announcement to get Digital to similarly release Bliss-36 so that + > my PPoE could offer it on Toad-1 systems.  > H >>    There's an official limit around how new a version of OpenVMS VAX I >> will be supported here; the VAX-11/785 was officially retired a while  K >> back.  The newest release with official support from HP is likely V6.2,  H >> but V7.3 will probably boot (slowly) on a moderately well-configured G >> VAX-11/785.  The retirement of this box was IIRC due to the lack of  L >> ready CD-ROM media support within this platform.  AFAIK, the bits needed G >> to boot the VAX-11/785 have not been removed -- but then, no one is  5 >> probably testing the bootstrap of the box, either.  > N > I've got install tapes for 6.0 and 6.2.  I've heard (in c.o.v., as I recall)K > that 7.3 will run on a 785, but we might not choose to push the envelope. . > We're really looking in the other direction.  I There are not too many things that have been dropped from VMS.  I cannot  G think of any.  Running a new version won't cause you to lose anything.   It will avoid problems.   G V6.2 was a rather good version.  If you don't want to go to V7.2, then  K I'd suggest V6.2.  I'd avoid anything between those two.  Personal opinion.   L >>    If this is a scholastic or hobbyist (non-commercial) application, you F >> can potentially acquire the requisite software licenses at no cost F >> through the available associated licensing programs.  If this is a K >> commercial application, you might be able to purchase a replacement box  E >> for the cost of the power and maintenance needed to keep this box  J >> running, whether a newer (real) VAX (or Alpha) box, or a CHARON-VAX or  >> SIMH VAX emulation. > K > It's semi-commercial, but emulation defeats the entire purpose behind the I > project.  It's the difference between the PDPplanet.org systems and the " > emulator at twenex.lonestar.org. > O > Thanks for the suggestion, though.  I plan to use SimH VAX (and most probably M > Charon-VAX as well) the same way I use SimH PDP-10 and KLH10 for the 36-bit F > systems, to try things out before mucking about on the public boxes. >      --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:25:39 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?9 Message-ID: <nMmdnZOq269KksDYnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rich Alderson wrote:? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > K >>    And you're hardly the only one with a 785 to take care of.  I got one C >>    several months ago.  It refuses to stop running, but I had to 8 >>    unremember some commands that VMS 4.7 didn't have. > N > It's not that I'm the only with a 785, but that we don't have licenses to goO > with the 4th-hand hardware we acquired from a broker.  I'm trying to find out P > what a reasonable user of that vintage system would expect to see, probably inM > a university setting.  (Though we won't try to simulate the load averages.)  >   F In a university setting, definitely the compilers, as many as you can F find.  I don't remember any of the productivity tools such as DECset. 4 But, the VAX came out after I left that environment.  6 I still remember toggling in a bootstrap on the PDP-6.  ? I still might have decks of punched cards for the DECsystem 10.   . Hey, that's what you need, a card reader!  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Nov 2006 01:11:51 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?, Message-ID: <ejj28n11b41@enews3.newsguy.com>  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:L > For a free "light" TCPIP stack on VAX, you can look at CMU-IP. I think it K > came before other stacks on VMS. If you cannot find it, I have a copy at  L > http://www.vaxination.ca/vms . You may have to open the kit or look on te = > web to see the minimal VMS version for that version of CMU.   K How many users connected via telnet (at least I'm guessing this is the main L reason Rich wants TCP/IP) could CMU-IP handle?  I used it on my MicroVAX II,K and as I recall the performance was pretty bad, though that could have been I in part due to the Q-Bus and Network interface (it was definitely a *LOT*  slower than my MicroVAX III).   L > DECNET can of useful even on a single node machine. For instance, you can B > SET HOST 0/LOG=filename  and then you start a new session whose I > communications are logged to "filename". And it also allows you to use   > network objects etc.  E > DECNET 4 is pretty light on resources and really easy to configure.   J Plus it might be possible to set things up so that the KL-2060 or KS10 can% talk to the VAX-11/785 via DECnet :^)    		Zane        ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:32:38 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?9 Message-ID: <GdSdnb1lr6vnjMDYnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rich Alderson wrote:7 > Following up to my own original post to expand a bit.  > 7 > Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:  > P >> I have to set up a 785 running VMS.  The hardware was at one time used to runN >> Berkeley Unix, and has passed through at least two pairs of hands since, soN >> no licenses for VMS are available to transfer.  In order to obtain licensesN >> for the system, I need to know what should be on a VMS system beyond the OS8 >> itself, in order to provide a basic  user experience. > O > As some have surmised, this is a system in a museum-like setting, the private Q > PDPplanet.org collection, which is open to the public in limited ways.  Because M > it is not an academic system, it does not qualify for scholastic discounts; P > because it is intended to be offered for public use, the hobbyist license does > not apply. > Q > The idea, as with the PDP-10 portion of the collection (the publicly accessible Q > 2065 and Toad-1), is to provide the actual feel of the running hardware, rather N > than an emulation.  For large- and medium-scale timesharing systems, this isM > easy to do in a networked facility such as that provided through PDPplanet.  > N > We may run early versions of VMS, if we can locate the bits, on some sort ofP > rotating schedule, so we aren't looking to get too fancy in what we put on the	 > system.  >   H In your shoes, I'd contact Sue Skonetski at HP.  She's now in charge of H the hobbyist program.  There isn't any programs for museums, due to the I small number of such.  I'd be real surprised if she wasn't of great help  E to you.  She should have access to licenses, media, and probably any   version of VMS.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:20:53 -0800 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>F Subject: Re: What layered products are important for a VAX VMS system?: Message-ID: <rIudnetqE5jCpcDYnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@comcast.com>   Rich Alderson wrote:  0 (snip regarding VAX 11/785 and museum operation)  P > Interesting question, but not directly relevant either, since I don't work for# > a non-profit entity at this time.   D You would have to read the license carefully, but I believe it isn't@ who you work for, but what you do with the system.  It could get complicated, though.  @ Say you wanted to test out a system before selling the hardware.@ Now, if you run with a hobby license, and don't run anything in @ violation of the license, you also learn that the hardware runs.@ Is learning that the hardware runs, and so has commercial value,8 in violation of a non-commercial license?  I don't know.  = I believe if you develop software with the intent to sell it, C even if you compile the actual commercial version on a real license E system, that you are in violation.  On the other hand, if you develop > it without the intent to sell, but later decide to sell, againC compiling the for sale version on a non-hobby machine, it is legal.   B Not that I am a lawyer, play one on TV, or even pretend to be one.   -- glen    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:47:20 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Who called me? 0 Message-ID: <00A5ED16.9565099F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <op.ti4fl5mftte90l@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> writes: >  > @ >On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:39:19 -0800, <lskphone@gmail.com> wrote: > I >> I want a function -- written in C, BASIC, or, heck, even COBOL -- that B >> returns the name of the module that invoked the function.  ThisG >> information must be available to VMS, since it is visible in a stack G >> dump.  However, I can't track down any RTL routine that can pull the D >> current stack of called modules (lib$signal won't do, of course).F >> Therefore, I am appealing to the collective knowledge and wisdom ofI >> this usenet group.  Assuming I've made myself clear... Has anyone done  >> this before?  If so, how? >>) >> Thank you for your time and attention.  >> >if PL/I just use SNAP option  >  >ON my_condition SNAP SYSTEM;   D FWIW, I've written a bit of code I call TRACER which will do this onC VAX or Alpha (and Itanium once I get some free time).  I've incorp- D orated it into another product I've developed called SNAPSHOT.  It'sD similar to the old PDUMP (Nick DeSmith's) utility that was availableD in the DECUS library.  SNAPSHOT can force a process dump of any pro-D cess on a system (even if it's in the midst of an AST) and TRACER isD an adjunct which allows forcing a TRACEBACK listing.  The process in2 question continues running as if nothing happened.  & If the O.P. is interested, contact me.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.632 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ǥ?%*dsCQ˧)|9,<]x8y8y!pa
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