1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 30 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 658       Contents:* Re: Any experience with EVA & VMS 7.2-2 ?? Best use for 4314R shelf Re: Best use for 4314R shelf Re: Best use for 4314R shelf2 MI5 Persecution: Buerk and Lewis deny their spying= MI5 Persecution: Correspondence with Keith Hill MP, 1997-2001  recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS 4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions 7 Re: VMS83I_ICXXL-V0100 patch & HP C++ 7.1 code problem?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2006 16:54:01 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)3 Subject: Re: Any experience with EVA & VMS 7.2-2 ?? , Message-ID: <Tktk7wMf84j0@cuebid.zko.hp.com>  ? agonort <agonort.2i1yfh@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> writes:   6 > We plan to upgrade a MA8000 SAN to newer technology: > - EVA3000 (already in place) > - New FC switches (4Gb ??)H > The problem is that nobody confirm support for EVA and VMS 7.2-2 afterE > VCS 2006 firmware. Ofcourse we plan to go to VCS 3028. Is there any 1 > experience (good/bad) about that combination ??  > 1 > I can't go to VMS 7.3-2 (this IS supported !!).  >  > Thanks > ag  J What's the reason you can't upgrade to V7.3-2?  Knowing what I know about F multipath pre-V7.3-1, I'd strongly encourage you to consider upgradingO to V7.3-2, although V7.3-1, while not supported for over a year, is far better   than V7.2-2.  G (My comments are not to blast the pre-V7.3-1 multipath code, but in the M process of supporting the remote path with multipath devices for V7.3-1, much M of multipath was rototilled, even things not directly related to remote path  
 failover).  F Additionally, the fibre channel port drivers from V7.3-2 and beyond doM a *much* better job at flow control than anything on V7.2-2.  V7.3 introduced E fastpath CPU affinity for fibre channel, allowing greater throughput.    --    H Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2006 13:18:33 -0800  From: "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com>! Subject: Best use for 4314R shelf C Message-ID: <1164835113.194588.181060@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>   G I can either use my 4314R as a space heater this winter or use the fans 0 in a jet engine project.  Which would be better?  * Also, will this affect my VMS RAID5 setup?  # I am leaning toward the jet engine.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2006 13:46:02 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> % Subject: Re: Best use for 4314R shelf C Message-ID: <1164836762.819168.288250@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Mike wrote: I > I can either use my 4314R as a space heater this winter or use the fans 2 > in a jet engine project.  Which would be better? > , > Also, will this affect my VMS RAID5 setup? > % > I am leaning toward the jet engine.   D You think those are bad?  Fire up a M5214 (FC) storage shelf.  The 38 4354R shelves I have are nearly silent compared to that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:40:12 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>% Subject: Re: Best use for 4314R shelf ) Message-ID: <eklcq0$2vjq$1@pyrite.mv.net>    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: 
 > Mike wrote: J >> I can either use my 4314R as a space heater this winter or use the fans3 >> in a jet engine project.  Which would be better?  >...F > You think those are bad?  Fire up a M5214 (FC) storage shelf.  The 3: > 4354R shelves I have are nearly silent compared to that.  I    The 4354 rack is semi-loud, but not the worst device I've encountered. G Well, there was that failed disk that was trying to shake apart a 4314  H (and was generating seek errors throughout the rack), but that's fodder  for another discussion.   H    The XrackPro2 or some similar acoustically-suppressed racking system I might help, though I don't know if it has the thermals required for this  I application.  It's built for the Xsan RAID shelf and Xserve devices, the  I latter of which are around 60-65 dB, as compared with rx1620 at about 71  E dB.  But the rack should substantially reduce the output from a 43xx  A series StorageWorks shelf.  (Assuming it doesn't also cook them.)   D    There are a number of loud systems of late, and from a number of E vendors.  The press has been running repeated discussions around the  G issues of power and cooling, but I can't say I've seen similar reports  E on the noise output.  Noise is the other part of thermodynamics, and  G particularly when you don't have piped coolant, the Cray-style coolant  B "aquarium", or big (slower, quieter) fans -- stuffing all the air I necessary to cool a modern system through a 1U server is inevitably loud.   I    Or you could aim the blowers upwards, and use some streamers and some  4 spheres to create your own advertising display.  :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Nov 2006 19:36:13 GMT From: MI5-Victim@mi5.gov.uk ; Subject: MI5 Persecution: Buerk and Lewis deny their spying % Message-ID: <m06102920305546@4ax.com>   " My claim against BBC is struck out  s My summons was struck out on the basis of it "disclosing no reasonable cause of action". The district judge pointed x out that I had no clear evidence, which would be needed for the claim to have any chance of success. My intent to submit` the defendants to interrogatories or cross-examination also cut no ice with the district judge.   t I was prevented from issuing further proceedings against the BBC without leave of the court. But this differs from aX "vexatious litigant" order; I am still able to sue other organisations and individuals.    186      --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Nov 2006 02:26:52 GMT From: MI5-Victim@mi5.gov.uk F Subject: MI5 Persecution: Correspondence with Keith Hill MP, 1997-2001% Message-ID: <m06103003213410@4ax.com>   , Correspondence with Keith Hill MP, 1997-2001  { In early 1997 I went to see my local MP, Keith Hill (Labour - London Streatham), at one of his surgeries, to ask his advice | and enlist his support in combating the MI5 conspiracy. He appeared helpful during the meeting, promising assistance to find} a lawyer and help with my legal efforts. Unfortunately, a month after the meeting he was much less inclined to assist, as the  following letter shows.   { My thought on reading his letter was that he had appeared helpful at the surgery merely to get rid of me without a fuss; he > never had any intention of constructive advice or assistance.   } I wrote to Mr Hill a year later, on 20 May 1998, stating that I wished to make a complaint to Police regarding the continuing T actions against me, and requesting his help in so doing. He responded a week later;   7 Again I wrote to Mr Hill on 10 November 1998, stating;     I am sure you will remember me from your surgery a year and a half ago, and subsequent letter dated 20/5/98 which is reproduced  over the page.     Once again I am asking you if you can help me, particularly in obtaining the passenger list for the BA flight in 1993, where four { of my persecutors confronted me. The harassment has restarted over the last two weeks, by "coincidence" as I have restarted  faxing your fellow MPs. If these faxes worry my persecutors then they must be having some effect - therefore, I feel encouraged  to continue them.   x Several of your Parliamentary colleagues have expressed the view that I should be making more of an effort to secure the{ assistance of my MP rather than presenting the matter to random members of the Commons. I hope you will be more helpful now / than on the earlier occasions I contacted you.    ) His response was in the following terms;    { Presumably it is somewhat unusual for a British Member of Parliament to threaten a constituent with arrest by Police on the | grounds of excessive communication. Being a legal neophyte I sought the advice of a local solicitor, who opined that no case$ existed for a charge of harassment;    In any case, who would I be harassing? Only Mr Hill, or hundreds of Westminster MPs simultaneously? I wrote again on 1 February _ 1999 to Mr Hill, enclosing my solicitor's advice above. Mr Hill did not respond to the letter.    { Finally, in May 2001 I received an election missive from Mr Hill, stating "But I do hope you felt that I had at least tried { to help." Presumably Mr Hill hasn't threatened many of his other constituents with arrest on the basis of excessive faxing, Y but the reader will be aware of the irony of the phrasing of his election communication.    T For my subject access request to Mr Hill's office in 2002, please follow this link.    187      --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Nov 2006 21:19:50 -0800+ From: "thick_guy_9" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com>  Subject: recursive copy in VMSB Message-ID: <1164863990.368405.196930@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>   Guys5 I am looking for a way to do a recursive copy in VMS.    something like cp -r.    I tried the foll soln:@ $ backup sys$login:[000000...]*.*;* disk$abc:[test]test.bck/save $ set def disk$abc:[test]  $ backup test.bck/save  ? but it doesn't create the directory tree, just all files in one 
 directory.  ; Any suggestions? I tried reading about RCP (too confusing).    Can I make BACKUP work? How?   thanks in advance    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:25:03 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)" Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMS2 Message-ID: <06112923250309_2020028F@antinode.org>  + From: "thick_guy_9" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com>   7 > I am looking for a way to do a recursive copy in VMS.  >  > something like cp -r.  >  > I tried the foll soln:B > $ backup sys$login:[000000...]*.*;* disk$abc:[test]test.bck/save > $ set def disk$abc:[test]  > $ backup test.bck/save > A > but it doesn't create the directory tree, just all files in one  > directory. > = > Any suggestions? I tried reading about RCP (too confusing).  >  > Can I make BACKUP work? How?      Perhaps something like:  3 $ backup DISK_HOME:[DIR_HOME...] disk$abc:[test...]   F where DISK_HOME is a real device (or a logical name for a device, or aB rooted logical name for a device and directory, which SYS$LOGIN is0 probably not), and DIR_HOME is a real directory.  G    There should be no need to use an intermediate save set, but you can  if you insist.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:14:07 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>= Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC ) Message-ID: <ekkm61$2p4o$1@pyrite.mv.net>    Dave Weatherall wrote:  8 > ISTR hat Linux does DecNet - haven't tried it yet tho'  C    Linux and various Unix systems have DECnet capabilities.  I was  A dealing with a Sun SunOS box doing DECnet and even providing MOP  J downloads for feeding bits into DECserver devices almost twenty years ago.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:25:48 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>= Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC ) Message-ID: <ekkmrv$2pae$1@pyrite.mv.net>    Roy Omond wrote: > prep@prep.synonet.com wrote: ... C >> There was also HEPnet and the NASA internal net. If you wanted a G >> serious, reliable network, and could live with the size limit, there  >> was only one that worked. > > > Ah yes, HEPnet/SPAN.  Are you referring to the size limit in. > DECnet of 63 areas and 1024 nodes per area ? > B > HEPnet/SPAN got round that by setting the backbone nodes to have > a maximum area number of 36   H    This construct was informally known as "hidden areas".  A version of A this was seen when connecting two overlapping corporate networks  G together, too.  At its simplest, you stuck a DECnet Phase IV level one  E router between two level two routers (area routers), and off you go.  C This was technically an illegal configuration for a correct DECnet  G network.  Connectivity across a hidden area was via Poor Man's Routing  B (PMR); through what amounted to being DECnet Phase III networking.  F    While discussing comparatively old and large DECnet networks, look F around for discussions of the WANK (reportedly "Worms Against Nuclear I Killers") worm, if you want to see some of the early "fun" with networks   and network security.   1    http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-1989-04.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:43:22 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> = Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC < Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20061129124103.02efffa0@192.168.0.11>  . At 12:25 PM 11/29/2006, Stephen Hoffman wrote: >Roy Omond wrote:  >>prep@prep.synonet.com wrote: >...C >>>There was also HEPnet and the NASA internal net. If you wanted a G >>>serious, reliable network, and could live with the size limit, there  >>>was only one that worked.> >>Ah yes, HEPnet/SPAN.  Are you referring to the size limit in. >>DECnet of 63 areas and 1024 nodes per area ? >>B >>HEPnet/SPAN got round that by setting the backbone nodes to have >>a maximum area number of 36  > I >   This construct was informally known as "hidden areas".  A version of  C > this was seen when connecting two overlapping corporate networks  I > together, too.  At its simplest, you stuck a DECnet Phase IV level one  L > router between two level two routers (area routers), and off you go. This @ > was technically an illegal configuration for a correct DECnet I > network.  Connectivity across a hidden area was via Poor Man's Routing  D > (PMR); through what amounted to being DECnet Phase III networking.  J Ah, yes, PMR.  I set up some of the original PMR stuff for the TSC at DEC E way back when.  But it allowed us to have fun specifying copies like  J "PSEUDO::KEYBRD::X.DAT" (those of you with RSTS background will recognize ' the significance of those node names!).    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:12:56 -0800 / From: rvfulltime <rvfulltime@_removeme_isp.com> * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions8 Message-ID: <nhmrm297i8egfu19e9n2soi4aedmjvges8@4ax.com>  T On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:22:48 -0600, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:  @ >I need some help from the way back machine.  (Old farts unite!) > I >I have a client with an IDC 11/730 (R80/RL02/TU80).  They don't want to   >replace it. > H >The system disk (R80) died and has been replaced.  Now they can't find  >their SABACKUP media. > G >What are my options here?  I know how to boot SABACKUP from a TU58 or  L >RL02, but I don't have a machine that I can use to generate media for them. > J >Is there a way to boot a 730 from the TU80?  If so, could some kind soul / >provide me with the relevant console commands?  > G >With a DEUNA, is there a way to boot a 730 as a satellite?  How about   >from an Infoserver? > C >If, as I suspect, I am out of luck on these alternate methods, is  H >someone set up to generate SABACKUP media on TU58 or RL02?  The target B >OS is VMS 5.4, but I think any 5.2 or later SABACKUP should work. >  >Thanx!   J I owned one of two of these critters a while ago.  The 730 is too dumb andJ stupid to hardware boot any device other than the TU58.  It actually loadsL the microcode from the TU58 tape.  Once it does that, it boots the disk.  InO fact, if I remember correctly, there are multiple files on the tape that can be G loaded, depending upon which disk you wanted to boot.  Placing the boot P file for this disk you want to boot at the front of the tape can reduce the timeM it takes to load the tape by up to 2 or 3 minutes.  I'm afraid you'll need to 4 find someone that can loan you their boot TU58 tape.  H It must have been a long time since you powered off that 730.  Next time2 leave the TU58 cartdrige in the drive.  Good luck.   --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:23:19 -0500 , From: "Boris Gubenko" <Boris.Gubenko@hp.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS83I_ICXXL-V0100 patch & HP C++ 7.1 code problem?, Message-ID: <456dde33$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  F The access violation is due to the new feature of the install facilityI in OpenVMS V8.3: unconditional mapping the resident images into S2 space, D including the 32-bit C++ libraries which do not support being mapped into a 64-bit space.  I A patch to the install facility -- VMS83I_INSTAL-V0100 -- correcting this ( problem has been released on 2-NOV-2006:       Release Date:  2-NOV-2006 >     Kit Name: HP-I64VMS-VMS83I_INSTAL-V0100--4.PCSI$COMPRESSED$     Kit Applies To: OpenVMS I64 V8.3  A The following text was added to VMS83I_ICXXL-V0100 release notes:   A A problem has been discovered when the C++ runtime library images B are installed resident. There is a workaround to the problem whichE is to remove the images from being installed by issuing the commands:   -     $ INSTALL REMOVE SYS$SHARE:CXXL$RWRTL.EXE /     $ INSTALL REMOVE SYS$SHARE:CXXL$LANGRTL.EXE /     $ INSTALL REMOVE SYS$SHARE:CXXL$011_SHR.EXE   C A second workaround is to define logical names to access the images  using the commands:   9     $ DEFINE /SYSTEM CXXL$RWRTL SYS$SHARE:CXXL$RWRTL.EXE; =     $ DEFINE /SYSTEM CXXL$LANGRTL SYS$SHARE:CXXL$LANGRTL.EXE; =     $ DEFINE /SYSTEM CXXL$011_SHR SYS$SHARE:CXXL$011_SHR.EXE;   2 Note that the semicolons on the end are important.  
 Boris Gubenko  HP C++ group   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.658 ************************