1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 30 Nov 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 659       Contents: Re: Best use for 4314R shelf0 Re: Cluster connection lost when one link fails? Re: Installing open3d alpha kit  Re: Installing open3d alpha kit  Re: Installing open3d alpha kit  Re: Installing open3d alpha kit F MI5 Persecution: Communications with Security Service Tribunal in 1999 Re: recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS & SOLVED Re: Installing open3d alpha kit* Re: SOLVED Re: Installing open3d alpha kit! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2006 07:51:39 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: Best use for 4314R shelf 3 Message-ID: <Ti5IaJTYKumg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1164835113.194588.181060@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>, "Mike" <mlpoole@gmail.com> writes:I > I can either use my 4314R as a space heater this winter or use the fans 2 > in a jet engine project.  Which would be better? > , > Also, will this affect my VMS RAID5 setup? > % > I am leaning toward the jet engine.   D    HP brought back the jet engine?  I haven't had one of those in myD    computer room since we scrapped an HP1000.  It's HP-IB based diskD    drive had a cast iron case and sounded like a 707 spinning up its"    engines when you powered it on.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2006 09:44:34 -0800/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> 9 Subject: Re: Cluster connection lost when one link fails? C Message-ID: <1164908674.370484.311770@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Keith,  F yes, this is documented in the VMS732_LAN-V0300 ECO kit release notes.  C But in my CLUEXIT crash, the VC was in the 'closing' state for more = than 70 seconds and there were still packets in the XMT cache G (VC$A_BUF_FIRST .ne. 0), which apparently prevented the VC from getting E closed and prevented from re-opening using the other working channel. D The packets seem to be in the Transmit Pending queue of the DE500-BA (EWA0), which lost the link.  ' A call will be logged for this problem.    Volker.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2006 02:56:12 -0800! From: "Ian Miller" <gxys@uk2.net> ( Subject: Re: Installing open3d alpha kitC Message-ID: <1164884172.837505.322330@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   
 You  may find   A reset_backup_saveset_file_attriobutes.com from Freeware V8 of use   7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/000tools/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:09:38 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>( Subject: Re: Installing open3d alpha kit, Message-ID: <ekme5i$9qe$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  4 "MikeyD" <m_donaghy50@hotmail.com> wrote in message ) news:ekmc39$823$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...   J > put it on a local ftp server and ftped it (in image mode) from my alpha.  A That's the problem; you can't transfer them in image mode safely.   @ You need to fixup the block length; you can find various ways to! do this on the net. One would be:   ? 1. Use DUMP to dump out the first few blocks. Find the original  block size on the command line.   C 2. Round up to the nearest multiple of 512 (usually 9216 or 32256).   ) 3. SET FILE saveset_name /ATTR=LRL=value     ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2006 07:56:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: Installing open3d alpha kit3 Message-ID: <SSr7l66eGjiv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <ekmcse$1n7s$1@otis.netspace.net.au>, David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> writes:  > MikeyD wrote:  > M >> I'm entirely new to vms, but acquired an alphastation 600/266 so am trying  >> it.   ! > The kit is crap, get a new copy   F    The kit is not crap, it just has the wrong RMS attributes (assumingH    the OP downloaded it as a binary file prior to FTP'ing it).  Getting G    a new copy via the same method will simply produce version 2 of the      same problem.  E    The tools previous posters pointed to will fix the RMS attributes. H    Standard HTTP and FTP have no way of dealing with real files systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:01:03 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>( Subject: Re: Installing open3d alpha kit( Message-ID: <ekn2ok$bnq$1@pyrite.mv.net>  
 MikeyD wrote: L > I'm entirely new to vms, but acquired an alphastation 600/266 so am tryingL > it. I joined encompass, got the hobbyist licenses and bought the cd, but IE > seem to need open3d to support my machine's ZLXp-L2 graphics card.    E    The older Open3D kits aren't known for stability or compatibility  H with the OpenVMS Alpha releases past about V7.3-1, and this PixelVision E PVpci ZLXp-L2 -- which is an ancient 3D graphics board -- only works  I with the Open3D kit, either in 2D or 3D.  Some of the newer widgets work  B in 2D mode with OpenVMS, and yet newer devices have their drivers 5 shipped within OpenVMS and don't need the Open3D kit.   G    A PowerStorm 3D30 or 4D20 or such would be a better choice here, as  H both avoid the need for Open3D (for 2D operations, which is likely what 9 you will be using), and both operate on current releases.   I    The AlphaStation 600 4/266 is an EV4-class box, which means you can't  H use an EV6-only device driver, so you're somewhat limited around moving " to the newer PCI graphics devices.  H    It's rather difficult to extricate Open3D once it is installed, too. G   I ended up re-installing OpenVMS when I needed to remove it.  (There  I was a time when the newest 2D drivers for a controller were sometimes in  ) the Open3D kit and sometimes in OpenVMS.)   B    Support for Open3D and for the ZLX-M Series PixelVision ZLX-M1 E PMAGC-AA, ZLX-M2 and PMAGC-BA, and the ZLX-L Series PixelVision Lite  G ZLX-L1 PMAGC-DA and ZLX-L2 PMAGC-EA, and the ZLXp-L Series PixelVision  D PCI PVpci series ZLXp-L1 PBXGC-A and ZLXp-L2 PBXGC-B was removed at F OpenVMS V8.2, and it's problematic at best on V7.3-2.  If you want to J try these widgets, you'll want Open3D V4.9B, and even that might not work.  G    I'd scrounge up a graphics controller supported by the base system.  B I've recommended the PowerStorm 3D30 PBXGB-AA and PowerStorm 4D20 H PBXGB-CA series controllers in the past.  These aren't so good with LCD E monitors -- no older controller I've tried was really good at a 60Hz  ? signal, and some of these displays can require it -- but these  % controllers do work nicely with CRTs.    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Nov 2006 14:37:07 GMT From: MI5-Victim@mi5.gov.uk O Subject: MI5 Persecution: Communications with Security Service Tribunal in 1999 % Message-ID: <m06103015314713@4ax.com>   5 Communications with Security Service Tribunal in 1999   z I took some more potshots at the SS-Tribunal in the first half of 1999. The correspondence between myself and the Tribunalx Secretary is detailed on this webpage. Ultimately I decided not to pursue another complaint with them, partly from Robinw Ramsay's advice (and that of a solicitor I consulted), but mostly because it was rather obvious from Mr Brooks' replies j that the Tribunal has no investigative means of its own and is that useless animal, a toothless watchdog.   w Included with this first letter was a copy of the leaflet, "Complaints about the Security Service". This tells you that u the Tribunal can order "the service to end its inquiries about you; the service to destroy any records it holds about  those inquiries; the quashing of a property warrant; financial compensation". Yeah, right. Look, there's a flying pig, oink-flap, oink-flap.    T My subsequent letter to Nick Brooks, Tribunal Secretary, dated 25 March 1999, said;    Dear Mr Brooks,   H 	We spoke on the phone last week and you kindly sent a copy of the form,( "Complaints about the Security Service".  V 	I have a few questions which I should like to ask you, before I undertake the task ofW making a formal complaint. As you know I made a complaint in February 1997, and in June ] of that year the tribunal made a bland and unsatisfactory statement that "no determination in W your favour has been made on your complaint". During our phone conversation I expressed R the view that the Tribunal was incapable of performing its functions and acts as aH whitewashing body for the Security Service. My questions are as follows;  T (1)	Has the Security Service Tribunal ever during its existence found in favour of a compaint against MI5?   V (2)	Is the Tribunal able to disclose whether "no determination in your favour" is madeW because MI5 claims to have no inquiries on a subject, or whether it is made because MI5 = admits to actions against a subject but claims justification?   T 	If disclosure is not possible for individual cases, then in 1997 for how many cases0 (out of what total) did MI5 claim justification?  \ (3)	Is the Tribunal able to investigate information such as British Airways passenger lists,Z given that these could conclusively prove MI5 involvement? Would the Tribunal be forced toR rely on MI5 to carry out such investigations, or would it have some other means of_ investigating? It might look slightly ridiculous for the Tribunal to rely on MI5 to investigate  their own misdeeds.   M 	When I made my previous complaint to the Tribunal in 1997 I gave very little T information as to the nature of my complaint. This time I intend to give as complete^ information as possible; but before I do so, I would ask you to answer the questions above, toU outline the "ground rules" for a Tribunal investigation and reporting of its results.    			Yours sincerely,    Mr Brooks replied by sending me a photocopy of two pages from the 1997 Report of the Security Service Commissioner, as follows.   3 The photocopied pages from the 1997 Report follow.    x In particular, the answers the report gives to my questions are; the Security Service Tribunal has NEVER found in favourw of a complainant; see sections 29 and 31 of the scanned report. Nick Brooks has confirmed orally over the phone that he G has no memory of the Tribunal ever finding in favour of a complainant.    z Secondly, the question of whether the Tribunal is able to disclose "no determination in your favour" is because MI5 claims| to have no inquiries on a subject, or whether it's because MI5 admits to having inquiries but claims they are justified. The| answer to this one is in section 24, which says the ambiguity is intentional; and the Tribunal will in no circumstances giveQ an unambiguous answer of whether MI5 claims or disclaims inquiries on a subject.    } In section 27 of the report, SS Commissioner Lord Justice Stuart-Smith says the blanket denials "might lead some to speculate  that members of the service are carrying out operations involving unlawful interference with property, such as the installation  of eavesdropping equipment, without first obtaining a warrant from the Home Secretary." He goes on to try to deny this speculation.  But we've heard from Peter Wright that this went on all the time in the 1960s. So why wouldn't it still be happening now? Of course it is.    ~ The Tribunal Secretary had avoided answering the question from my previous letter, of whether the Tribunal had any independent. investigative capacity. So I asked him again.    Dear Mr Brooks,   W 	Thank you for your letter dated 6 April enclosing an extract of the 1997 Report of the Y Security Service Commissioner. This answers two of the three questions asked in my letter  of 25 March.  U 	The third question remains. In 1993 I travelled on a British Airways flight on which ^ there also travelled four men, one of whom stared at me, laughed and said, "if he tries to runZ away we'll find him". I took this to mean that these were the men who had been pursuing me\ for some time in the UK. This leads me to ask again the last question in my previous letter;  \ (3)	Is the Tribunal able to investigate information such as British Airways passenger lists,Z given that these could conclusively prove MI5 involvement? Would the Tribunal be forced toR rely on MI5 to carry out such investigations, or would it have some other means ofe investigating? It might look slightly ridiculous for the Tribunal to rely on MI5 to investigate their 
 own misdeeds.   H 	I would very much hope that some means is available to the Tribunal and[ Commissioner to investigate possible MI5 malefaction, other than relying on MI5 themselves. V When I receive an answer to this question from you, I will work to put together a moreF comprehensive and detailed complaint for the Tribunal's consideration.   			Yours sincerely,    Brooks' reply was;    ~ Brooks doesn't want to give a direct reply to the question, since that would place him in a bad light. So he gives an indirect} answer; the tribunal, he avoids saying, has no investigative capacity; there is no mention even of any investigative capacity } provided by MI5 themselves; nobody can investigate anything, all the Tribunal can do is ask MI5, and they, in their "Alice in U Wonderland" world, can redefine the truth as it pleases them, and dissemble, and lie.    Before deciding not to put another formal complaint before the Tribunal, I asked Robin Ramsay, editor of Lobster magazine, what J he thought of the idea of making a complaint to the Tribunal. He replied;   ; RESPONSE  Yes it is a  waste of time. They will do nothing.   " In a further email he elaborated;   E As for quoting me on the Security Service Tribunal - if you think my  D comments would mean anything, feel free. The problem people have is A this: they almost have to go through the motions of going to the  F Tribunal for if they don't they will always be asked, 'Why didn't you D go the proper authorities?'  (This is one of the chief functions of  'the proper authorities'.)
  Robin Ramsay    So the sum of the various parts of this story is; DON'T GO TO THE TRIBUNAL. If you do, then MI5 will open a file on you (if you  don't have one already). Don't do as I did, do as I say. If you feel a really deep-seated urge to complain, do so first under an| invented name, which will make you understand just how useless the Tribunal is, how little information they provide, and howm unpleasant it is to know that you have given MI5 a reason to officially open a file on you in their Registry.    139      --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2006 09:07:31 +0100/ From: huber@NIRWANA-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) " Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMS+ Message-ID: <VKZd$MEAZgeR@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   p In article <1164863990.368405.196930@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>, "thick_guy_9" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> writes:7 > I am looking for a way to do a recursive copy in VMS.  > something like cp -r.  > I tried the foll soln:B > $ backup sys$login:[000000...]*.*;* disk$abc:[test]test.bck/save > $ set def disk$abc:[test]  > $ backup test.bck/saveA > but it doesn't create the directory tree, just all files in one  > directory.  D Others have answered the recursive question, one observation though:  H Using [000000...], especially in a disk-to-disk copy, is very dangerous:K Use [*...] instead, and if there are specific files (LD or ISO disk images  E and similar files often placed there), then include them explicitely. L If on copy or restore You blindly use /NEW or /REPLACE, then the output disk0 will be corrupted (at least not easy to repair).% To copy [000000] , use BACKUP/IMAGE .     --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2006 05:31:13 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>" Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMSB Message-ID: <1164893473.457423.136950@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>   thick_guy_9 wrote: > Guys7 > I am looking for a way to do a recursive copy in VMS.  >  > something like cp -r.  >  > I tried the foll soln:B > $ backup sys$login:[000000...]*.*;* disk$abc:[test]test.bck/save > $ set def disk$abc:[test]  > $ backup test.bck/save > A > but it doesn't create the directory tree, just all files in one  > directory. > = > Any suggestions? I tried reading about RCP (too confusing).  >  > Can I make BACKUP work? How? >  > thanks in advance     7 I don't see how your commands could have worked at all.    1.)   sys$login:[000000...]   0 doesn't work with the default value of sys$login   2.)   $ backup test.bck/save  ; doesn't provide an output parameter and will prompt for one   # To copy a directory tree, use this:   /     $ BACKUP [DIR1.DIR2...] [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC...]   2 This will copy similarly to the following example:  @     [DIR1.DIR2]file1.DAT           --> [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC]file1.DAT@     [DIR1.DIR2]file2.DAT           --> [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC]file2.DAT;     [DIR1.DIR2.blah]file3.DAT      --> [dir2.blah]file3.DAT &     [DIR1.DIR2.blah.blah]file4.DAT --># [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC.blah.blah]file4.DAT   > You can also use other directory specs like [] for the currentG directory and [.SUBDIR] for subdirectories of the current directory and  so on (see the User's Manaual).    See Sec. 7.3.2 at F <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/6048/6048pro_019.html> for more@ on using the ellipsis wildcard character with BACKUP. (NOTE: TheE example with MONDAY.TUESDAY and stuff is slightly wrong.) You can get 7 to the VMS section easily with <www.hp.com/GO/OPENVMS>.   G BTW, if you're not the system manager you shouldn't have to worry about 3 /by_owner and [000000] as given in the other posts.    AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2006 07:46:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMS3 Message-ID: <fhxVvhs9iDvQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <a2424$456e89bc$cef8887a$21497@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > G > Personally, I don't think BACKUP should ever create some "flat" file  M > directory and no matter how you specify the destination, if the source has  F > a ... in the directory, the target should be a equal directory tree.  D    What if you wnt it to?  BACKUP should do what it's told, not what4    one user is used to from tools on an inferior OS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:29:56 -0700 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>" Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMS6 Message-ID: <456eeaef$0$10311$815e3792@news.qwest.net>  / Bob, you just got baited by JF - a known troll.   
 Mike Ober.  I "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message  - news:fhxVvhs9iDvQ@eisner.encompasserve.org... D > In article <a2424$456e89bc$cef8887a$21497@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei ( > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>G >> Personally, I don't think BACKUP should ever create some "flat" file J >> directory and no matter how you specify the destination, if the source  >> hasG >> a ... in the directory, the target should be a equal directory tree.  > E >   What if you wnt it to?  BACKUP should do what it's told, not what 5 >   one user is used to from tools on an inferior OS.  >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Nov 2006 06:46:28 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>" Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMSB Message-ID: <1164897988.908171.47820@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>  
 AEF wrote: > thick_guy_9 wrote: > > Guys9 > > I am looking for a way to do a recursive copy in VMS.  > >  > > something like cp -r.  [...]  > % > To copy a directory tree, use this:  > 1 >     $ BACKUP [DIR1.DIR2...] [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC...]  > 4 > This will copy similarly to the following example: > B >     [DIR1.DIR2]file1.DAT           --> [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC]file1.DATB >     [DIR1.DIR2]file2.DAT           --> [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC]file2.DAT= >     [DIR1.DIR2.blah]file3.DAT      --> [dir2.blah]file3.DAT ( >     [DIR1.DIR2.blah.blah]file4.DAT -->% > [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC.blah.blah]file4.DAT  >   
 Er, make that   A      [DIR1.DIR2]file1.DAT           --> [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC]file1.DAT A      [DIR1.DIR2]file2.DAT           --> [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC]file2.DAT F      [DIR1.DIR2.blah]file3.DAT      --> [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC.blah]file3.DAT'      [DIR1.DIR2.blah.blah]file4.DAT --> # [DIRA.DIRB.DIRC.blah.blah]file4.DAT     [...]    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:22:17 +0000  From: MikeyD <md401@cam.ac.uk>/ Subject: SOLVED Re: Installing open3d alpha kit / Message-ID: <ekmsv9$dn5$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>    Ian Miller wrote:    > You  may find  > C > reset_backup_saveset_file_attriobutes.com from Freeware V8 of use  > 9 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/000tools/    That did it; thanks very much  Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:09:53 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>3 Subject: Re: SOLVED Re: Installing open3d alpha kit ( Message-ID: <ekn393$bsk$1@pyrite.mv.net>  
 MikeyD wrote:  > Ian Miller wrote: D >> reset_backup_saveset_file_attriobutes.com from Freeware V8 of use: >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/000tools/ > That did it; thanks very much     G    And as you're new to OpenVMS, the FAQ is an available resource that  F you might want to avail yourself of.  Though the FAQ covers repairing D corrupt BACKUP savesets, it doesn't cover this particular VMSINSTAL A footprint of the saveset corruption error -- yet.  I'll add this    footprint into the next edition.  '    <http://www.hoffmanlabs.org/vmsfaq/>    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:10:50 GMT ' From: ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions4 Message-ID: <__ybh.1008$I6.789@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>   ChrisQuayle wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>	 >> Chris,  >>F >> VMS at one time was distributed on 9-track tape.  The only thing I ? >> cannot remember is whether SA BACKUP was on a separate tape.  >>J >> Regardless, if you have access to another 9-track drive, you should be H >> able to copy or build SA BACKUP on a tape.  (It has been a very long  >> time, so I could be wrong.) >>G >> To boot the tape, for example, MTA0:, I believe you just do that at    >> the console prompt, BOOT MTA0 >> >> Remember STABACKIT  >> > K > The 730 used an msdos like batch / command file on a tu58 normally, with  G > the various cpu registers loaded to reflect boot mode and controller  J > that you wished to boot from. At the terminal, you can boot from either D > tu58 drive 0, or 1,  but not from a disk or other device. The cpu D > microcode must be loaded from tu58 before the main os boot can be G > started. I have a 725 (730, deskside) which could have built console  E > tapes, but the console is dead and haven't had time yet to fix it.  5 > Anyone have schematics for the console subsystem ?.  > I > I still have a collection of tu58 tapes for 730 in store, which the op  I > is quite welcome to borrow, but will need to check if a stabackup tape  = > is among them. I think the os was 4.3 or 4.7, but not sure.  > E > Contact off group at: syseng at gfsys dot co dot uk, if it helps...  > 
 > Regards, >  > Chris   H Have found a 3 x tu58 stabackup tape set for vms 4.3, but don't know if 9 this would be suitable for later versions of vms, or not.   F Ifa all else fails and you really get stuck, you could disconnect the G tu58 rs422 (rs423 ?) serial cable, and drive this from another machine  G running the tu58 protocol emulator, which can be found on the net. You  E have to solve the problem of how to get the necessary files onto the  * other machine, but it should be possible..   Chris    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.659 ************************