INFO-VAX Tue, 27 Feb 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 115 Contents: Re: A CEO agrees with me: Marketing! Re: A CEO agrees with me: Marketing! Am I seeing things? Re: Am I seeing things? Re: Am I seeing things? create directory Re: DECforms Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus REQUE select jobs to another que for execution Re: REQUE select jobs to another que for execution Re: REQUE select jobs to another que for execution Re: SpamAssassin Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE problems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:19:46 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: A CEO agrees with me: Marketing! Message-ID: In article <9dFPTZ8s3D1C@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <45DFAD4D.CAB43AA5@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: > > > > I doubt Kraft's marketing people would ever see this ng, but they may find > > it > > interesting that "Kraft" is immediately associated with "Velveeta". > > If Kraft didn't want to be associated with Velveeta, then they > shouldn't have bought it. > > But it's not Hormel's fault that they own the meat product associated > with unsolicited commercial email. Cough. One could also argue that Hormel created the conditions for the Monty Python sketch in the first place :-) Maybe your school didn't serve the stuff up for lunch, but mine did. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 21:39:31 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: A CEO agrees with me: Marketing! Message-ID: <54h2cjF20k8grU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Paul Sture writes: > In article <9dFPTZ8s3D1C@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > >> In article <45DFAD4D.CAB43AA5@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera >> writes: >> > >> > I doubt Kraft's marketing people would ever see this ng, but they may find >> > it >> > interesting that "Kraft" is immediately associated with "Velveeta". >> >> If Kraft didn't want to be associated with Velveeta, then they >> shouldn't have bought it. >> >> But it's not Hormel's fault that they own the meat product associated >> with unsolicited commercial email. > > Cough. One could also argue that Hormel created the conditions for the > Monty Python sketch in the first place :-) Maybe your school didn't > serve the stuff up for lunch, but mine did. Some of us actually like it. But then, some of us like scrapple, too. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:32:27 -0600 From: Staffan Tjernstrom Subject: Am I seeing things? Message-ID: <1172518347.5709.1.camel@linspiron8200.mobile.staffan.tjernstrom.name> Was looking at this article: http://www.technologynewsdaily.com/node/6070 and it struck me that the keyboard in the pic looks awfully like a LK. Co-incidence? VMS==CMM5? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:26:29 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Staffan Tjernstrom wrote: > Was looking at this article: > > http://www.technologynewsdaily.com/node/6070 > > and it struck me that the keyboard in the pic looks awfully like a > LK. > > Co-incidence? VMS==CMM5? > I would say "!=". I zoomed in on the top-row function keys, I saw a space between F1 and F2. I see such a space in my PC keyboard, but not on my LK-450. -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:55:52 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? Message-ID: <45e39db4$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Staffan Tjernstrom wrote: > Was looking at this article: > > http://www.technologynewsdaily.com/node/6070 > > and it struck me that the keyboard in the pic looks awfully like a LK. > > Co-incidence? VMS==CMM5? I can not tell. Tt could be. Or it could be another keyboard. Arne PS: http://www.gtech.com/media/2007news/0212.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 02:44:49 GMT From: "Bob Jones" Subject: create directory Message-ID: I am a beginner in VMS, coming from UNIX. Trying to create a new directory under the current directory, but forgot to use the '.'. create /directory [newdir] Now I cannot find where this dir is created. Please help! ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 17:15:59 -0800 From: yyyc186@hughes.net Subject: Re: DECforms Message-ID: <1172538959.462805.240960@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> On Feb 3, 4:13 am, "Richard Maher" wrote: > I'd better clear a couple of metres of shelf-space for this one :-) I did > like much of the Java one though. > Thanks. I don't hear much about the Java book. I hear many good things about "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer", but very little about "The Minimum You Need to Know About Java on OpenVMS". Seems that most just read the "Ruminations" chapter, then put it on the shelf. > During your research, have you managed to obtain any information on the > current state ofACMS? I was over the moon when (Ian Miller?) told me thatACMSwas out of EDS moth-balls, but then someone else told me that it just > landed in the Bangalore fire :-( > As far as I know, ACMS is still alive and well. It is still being marketed incorrectly and used incorrectly by most places, but alive and well none-the-less. > Anyone got any news? ACMSxp was definitely canned though wasn't it? Has the > requirement for CDD been removed? Will you be contrasting the > Desktop/Web-Connector/Bridgeworks/WSIT thingy? The last time I worked with ACMS, the CDD requirement was removed...sort of. If you used workspaces you still had to have CDD in order to compile. If you were using MQ Series message queues as your feeders, you could get around most of the need for workspaces, but not quite all of the need. > PS. Good-luck with DECforms. (Could've continued the FMS spirit with the SI > interface?) The last book(s) covering OpenVMS in this series will not be using any MS products. I am dumping all MS products from my own site, and will not be working with them at client sites in the future. My current focus is using SuSE Linux as the "front end" or "terminal" for OpenVMS applications. I regret that SuSE inked a deal with MS, but nothing I can do about it. Novell had a better DOS with DR-DOS and they let it die to improve relations with MS and now we have bloated buggy GUI- DOS. I also regret IBM having let OS/2 die on the vine. Once they got to Warp 5 and had almost all of the MS code ripped out, it became a very stable and capable OS. Since SuSE 10.2 Linux on 64-bit AMD machines is the best I've found, that is what I will focus on. I've even made the jump to StarOffice/ OpenOffice from WordPerfect since they informed me they had no intentions of ever releasing another Linux version of their product. I'm currently in talks with one vendor about using their product as the front end, which is why there may be two books. No, I won't name the vendor at this point. By the end of this week I should know if there will be one or two books left covering OpenVMS in this series. The Logic book in this series should be heading to the printer in a month or two, but it isn't VMS specific. Trying to keep the size and cost down so it will be affordable for colleges to use. It's pretty obvious no college teaches logic these days. Off-topic: Since you said you liked the Java book, did you read "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer"? If so, what did you think of it? Roland ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 15:17:20 -0600 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Message-ID: In article <1172227848.363049.45770@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, "Camiel" writes: > AlphaServer ES40 Console V7.2-1, built on Jun 9 2006 at 15:36:48 > > CPU 0 booting > > (boot dqa0.0.0.15.0 -flags 0,0) > block 0 of dqa0.0.0.15.0 is a valid boot block > reading 1226 blocks from dqa0.0.0.15.0 > bootstrap code read in > base = 200000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 99400(627712) > initializing HWRPB at 2000 > initializing page table at 7f56000 > initializing machine state > setting affinity to the primary CPU > jumping to bootstrap code > %APB-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYSBOOT.EXE > %APB-I-LOADFAIL, Failed to load secondary bootstrap, status = 00000910 [...] > I created the image as follows: I took the original OpenVMS 8.3 > installation CD-ROM, and used Nero to extract an ISO image from it. > This should result in a flat file, that has all the data on the CD in > it. SRM accesses the disk in LBA (logical block addressing) mode, so > geometry (cylinders, heads, sectors) should not be an issue. In fact, > this seems to be demonstrated already by the fact that SRM manages to > load the primary bootstrap image (APB.EXE). Don't use Nero. Use a VMS system to copy the blocks to a file [there's also dd under Linux]. I have moved VMS CD images via simple COPY commands. From memory, $ SET RMS/EXTEND=64000 ! Speeds things up by avoiding outfile fragmentation $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DKA500: $ COPY DKA500:DUMMYNAME CDIMAGE.BINARY $ SET FILE CDIMAGE.BINARY /END_OF_FILE ! Use if error causes filesize = 0 ! Could also use $ SET FILE/ATTRIB=... Ignore the error message about running off the end of the source disk - COPY does not understand that it is reading a foreign mounted volume. Note that you can check by copying the blocks to a magnetic disk on your (real) VMS host. You can probably mount both devices /FOREIGN to do the copy, remembering that you need a dummy filename for source and destination. [Note: such a copy OVERWRITES the target disk.] VMS should be willing to ignore the fact that the image described by the volume structure is smaller than the physical disk. It behaves as if the unused blocks are lost, or are part of BADBLK.SYS . -- George Cornelius cornelius()eisner.decus.org cornelius()mayo.edu ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 11:02:25 -0800 From: "Doug Phillips" Subject: Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Message-ID: <1172516545.260327.319840@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com> On Feb 25, 8:43 am, b...@instantwhip.com wrote: > On Feb 22, 6:29 pm, "Doug Phillips" wrote: > > On Feb 21, 6:47 pm, b...@instantwhip.com wrote: > > >[snip] > > > also, they should be using vms to save money because they are > > > broke running a socialized healthcare system the same one Hillary > > > Clinton and the democrats are and have been pushing for years ... > > > > look at Canadas broken system and think about that the next > > > election ... [snip] > > - the per-capita spending for health care in the U.S. is nearly double > > that of Canada (and Australia, and France) and more than double that > > in the UK. > > > - their life expectancy is higher than in the U.S. > > > - their infant mortality rate is lower than in the U.S. > > > Maybe those facts alone don't prove a broken system, but the more > > anyone looks at the U.S. health care system, the more facts one > > gathers, the closer one looks at how each dollar spent is distributed, > > the more obvious it should be to them that the system just isn't > > working very well.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > not to break to your bubble, but I can send you links to countless > stories of Canadians coming to the US for basic things such as > gallbladder surgery because they got tired of waiting for their number > to come up and suffering ... > If someone has enough money, they can buy whatever they need, where ever. If you've actually researched this, you should find as many stories about Americans going abroad to get treatment that they can't get in the U.S., either because of its high cost here, it's not covered by their insurance, or it's not yet available in the U.S. I also don't hear about any Canadians coming to the U.S. to get their prescriptions filled. > the US problem is three pronged ... > Oh, if it were so simple. > 1 LAWYERS ... ever hear of frivilious lawsuits ... and these > leach lawyers are d riving doctors out of business and driving > up healthcare costs with rising malpractice insurance ... > This is a *symptom* of the real problems, not a cause. > 2 QUOTAS ... I was in an engineering graphics class at a major > college here and a kid setting next to me said he was majoring > in pre med and had a 3.4 GPA ... I said what are you doing > here ... > he said he got tired of trying to get in and that because of their > racial quotas, they were letting in ethnic students with 2.7 GPAs > over him so he was going to try engineering ... so we do not > even put the best doctors into the system ... > This is not one of the causes for the broken health care system. This does have something to do with the educational system, which is also broken. Some of the medical school problems are also *symptoms* of the broken health care system, but again, not the cause. > 3 ILLEGALS ... are driving hospitals and other doctors out of > business > with a requirement they be treated without paying ... > > add those three up and there is your problem ... Now you sound like someone who has no knowledge of the situation, but are just parroting some talking heads. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 11:05:39 -0800 From: "Doug Phillips" Subject: Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Message-ID: <1172516739.418252.186010@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> On Feb 26, 12:44 pm, Alfred Falk wrote: > "Doug Phillips" wrote innews:1172186990.536079.208890@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com: > > > > > On Feb 21, 6:47 pm, b...@instantwhip.com wrote: > >> I continue to be amazed at how people here continue to state > >> the flawed fact that another solution is cheaper and better than > >> vms ... > > >> WRONG! > > >> when you take that higher initial investment and divide it over > >> decades > >> of virus free 99.9999 uptime enviroment your TCO on vms wins > >> overwhelmingly ... > > >> also, they should be using vms to save money because they are > >> broke running a socialized healthcare system the same one Hillary > >> Clinton and the democrats are and have been pushing for years ... > > >> look at Canadas broken system and think about that the next > >> election ... > > The brokenness of Canada's health system is much exaggerated, mostly by > those with agendas to further for-profit health care over the taxpayer- > funded system. Certain provincial governments have been accused of > intentionally underfunding health care in order to further that agenda. > > If by "broken" you mean that the well-off cannot jump queues ahead of > the poor... well, I don't count that as broken. (And I qualify under > StatsCan definitions as "wealthy".) I said none of these things. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:23:27 -0800 From: glen herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: (snip) > For user interface the one's I've used were worse. Somehow I'd > rather deal with search being spelt "grep" than with copy being > spelt IEBGENR. IBM has a system where the first three letters uniquely identify the where the product came from. (I don't know exactly how they are determined.) In this case it is IEBGENER, the first five letters of GENERATE. There is, in fact, IEBCOPY mostly used to copy a PDS. There is also IEHMOVE which can either copy or move (copy and delete the original) most types of data sets). There is a historical reason that GENERATE is used for copying data, but I don't remember what it is. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:47:52 -0500 From: "Richard B. gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Message-ID: <45E39BD8.40200@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Richard B. gilbert wrote: > >> My memory grows DIMM but ISTR that IEBGENER's primary function was to >> generate test data. (It has been fifteen or twenty years since I last >> used it!) >> > > It was often used as the equivalent of CREATE/FDL for sequential dataset > where the DDNAME contained the datataset characteristics. You could also > specify a "SYS$INPUT" either to be read fro teh JCL cards or from > another dataset. > ISTR using // EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 If I just wanted to do things to files; e.g. create an empty file or delete a file. IEFBR14 was the "null program" it simply did a BR 14 (Branch Register 14) where R14 held the address to return to the O/S. If there were accompanying DD statements the O/S would create or delete files and maybe do other stuff that I have long forgotten. > For indexed files, you would need to use IDCAMS to create VSAM datasets > and provide an FDL-like text file that contained the indexed dataset > format (keys etc). ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 19:43:04 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: OT: Quebec Health Care Virus Message-ID: <1172547784.076084.29370@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com> On Feb 26, 2:02 pm, "Doug Phillips" wrote: > > > 3 ILLEGALS ... are driving hospitals and other doctors out of > > business > > with a requirement they be treated without paying ... > > > add those three up and there is your problem ... > > Now you sound like someone who has no knowledge of the situation, but > are just parroting some talking heads. really ... just ask all the people flocking to Las Vegas and Phoenix why they are and also the businesses and they will tell you ... they are tired picking up the tab for illegals in schools and other services with their taxes ... the hospitals ARE bankrupt and crying for relief from the illegals free ride medical care ... and after they move they actually have electricity and have light instead of sitting in the dark with the snails ... ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 13:16:45 -0800 From: "flamingomn@hotmail.com" Subject: REQUE select jobs to another que for execution Message-ID: <1172524605.267289.201920@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> hi. i'm looking for a simple DCL: .com that will to the following: 1. look for all jobs in a queue that start with ELG 2. requeue JUST those jobs to anothter specified queue. thanks. ann ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:02:11 -0500 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: REQUE select jobs to another que for execution Message-ID: <8660a3a10702261602u7aea4340qed192dbe197ed81d@mail.gmail.com> On 26 Feb 2007 13:16:45 -0800, flamingomn@hotmail.com wrote: > hi. > > i'm looking for a simple DCL: .com that will to the following: > > 1. look for all jobs in a queue that start with ELG > 2. requeue JUST those jobs to anothter specified queue. > > thanks. > > ann > > ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 16:24:59 -0800 From: dooleys@snowy.net.au Subject: Re: REQUE select jobs to another que for execution Message-ID: <1172535899.066725.63850@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> On Feb 27, 8:16 am, "flaming...@hotmail.com" wrote: > hi. > > i'm looking for a simple DCL: .com that will to the following: > > 1. look for all jobs in a queue that start with ELG > 2. requeue JUST those jobs to anothter specified queue. > > thanks. > > ann This one requeues retained jobs from one queue to another you can adapt it for your purpose (watch for line-wrap) Phil $!RQ.COM - P1=SOURCE QUEUE P2=DESTINATION QUEUE $ SET ON $ SET CONTROL=(T,Y) $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO ERROR_EXIT $ ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO ERROR_EXIT $ TEMP = F$GETQUI("") $QLOOP: $ QNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE","QUEUE_NAME","*") $ IF QNAME .EQS. "" THEN GOTO DONE $ IF QNAME .NES. "''P1'" THEN GOTO QLOOP $JLOOP: $ RETAINED = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_RETAINED",,"ALL_JOBS") $ IF RETAINED .EQS. "" THEN GOTO DONE $ IF RETAINED .NES. "TRUE" THEN GOTO JLOOP $ ENTRY = F $GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","ENTRY_NUMBER",,"FREEZE_CONTEXT,ALL_JOBS") $ SET ENTRY 'ENTRY' /REQUEUE='P2' $ SET ENTRY 'ENTRY' /RELEASE $ GOTO JLOOP $DONE: $ EXIT $ERROR_EXIT: $ STAT = $STATUS $ SAY "Error" $ SAY F$MESSAGE(STAT) $ EXIT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:02:01 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: SpamAssassin Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > >Does anyone here have experience with SpamAssassin? Do you recommend > >it? > Since noone else has responded I'll have a go. > Basically the answer is there is no such threshold. > No content scanning anti-spam product is 100% accurate. The best will only > claim 98% accuracy. Which at first sight sounds a lot but really means it gets > it wrong for 2 out of every 100 mail messages. Those mistakes will either be > false positives (mail which is mistakenly considered to be spam but isn't) or > false negatives (mail which is spam but is missed). The threshold just changes > the ratio of false positives to false negatives. The only way you can guarantee > that all legitimate mail gets through is to set the threshold to a ridiculously > high level in which case all mail (including spam) will get through. Yes, in theory. In my case, in practice, the provider flags it as spam for a score of 5 or higher. Looking at well over 1000 messages, NO legitimate email was flagged as spam. Of the stuff not flagged as spam, about 2/3 is. About 60--70% of the total gets flagged as spam. So, for 100 messages a day, I could get rid of 65 or so quickly. Of the remaining 35, I have to fish out a dozen legitimate ones. So it does save time with no appreciable risk. My provider would send a message to the (alleged) sender if a message is not relayed to me because it is suspected of being spam. Thus, a legitimate sender could find out that this was a problem. (I'm not sure this is a good idea. What I observe myself is that a spammer sends email to a non-existent address somewhere else with my address (or a non-existent address in my domain) as the forged sender. The spam scanner at the other end sends me (or, if the user doesn't exist, my Postmaster, who is me wearing another hat) a message that there was a problem. Maybe, however, the spammer really wanted to spam my addresses and is using the spam filter at the other site as a spam relay. (Fine point: for non-existent users, the Postmaster only gets the mail if they are also syntactially invalid VMS usernames, since I drop all the rest during the SMTP dialog, since this is by far the most spam I get (dictionary attack). > >The main advantage for me is: if I choose to drop the spam, then I don't > >have to have an ALPHA always have the cluster alias, but a VAX (with > >TCPIP 5.3) would be OK. (A lot of spam is email to non-existent users. > >These generate bounces which, because the sender is often faked, bounce > >back. With 5.4, I can reject email to non-existent usernames (at least > >if they are valid VMS usernames, which most of them are), but that runs > >only on ALPHA.) > > Unless your Dynamic-DNS provider has a list of all your valid email addresses > then no anti-spam product it runs can determine that a message is for a > non-existent account on your systems. True, but since no legitimate mail is sent to non-existent users, it could be flagged as spam based on other grounds. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2007 13:22:13 -0800 From: "Bobby" Subject: Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE problems Message-ID: <1172524933.575862.42010@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com> I just checked a couple of systems running 7.3-2 and found that they have the same issue... the time zone rule isn't surviving a reboot. Running @sys$manager:utc$time_setup "" rule did the trick, but I was confused as to why this wasn't happening automatically? Looking at utc$time_setup.com, it indicates in the header comments that it ...executes SYS$UPDATE:DTSS$INSTALL_TIMEZONE_RULE.COM and then writes a new version of SYS$STARTUP:DTSS$UTC_STARTUP.COM that contains the timezone rule and then excecutes the new DTSS$UTC_STARTUP.COM. However, looking farther into the code, the actual file name that the procedure creates is named "TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM". Looking in sys$startup, I found sys$startup:VMS $BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM. This file contains the following code: ------------------------------- $DECK NOTE: DTSS is a component of both DECnet-Plus and DCE. Therefore we cannot simply use NET$IGNORE_DECNET or other DECnet or DCE logicals to determine if TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM should be run here. If NET$IGNORE_DECNET is defined and it is desired that TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM should be run here, then NET $DISABLE_DTSS should also be defined. $EOD $after$deck: $If ( (f$search("SYS$SYSTEM:DTSS$SERVICE.EXE") .EQS. "") - .or. (f$trnlnm("NET$DISABLE_DTSS","LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE") .NES. "") ) $then $if f$search("SYS$STARTUP:TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM") .nes. "" $then $set noon $@SYS$STARTUP:TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM --------------------------------- It appears that the logical "NET$DISABLE_DTSS" must be defined, or that SYS$SYSTEM:DTSS$SERVICE.EXE must not exist, in order for the system to execute TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM. I entered the following in SYS $MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM and rebooted: $ DEFINE/TABLE=LNM$SYSTEM NET$DISABLE_DTSS TRUE It worked (i.e., the time zone was defined following reboot) but is it the intended method? Bobby ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.115 ************************