INFO-VAX Wed, 14 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 146 Contents: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: Biofules was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: Biofules was: AMD's well may be running dry Climatology was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: Climatology was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: found .jb files RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Re: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS Re: output from cron ssh to VMS? Re: output from cron ssh to VMS? Re: RMS indexed file structure questions Re: RMS indexed file structure questions Re: TELNET - session timeout parameter(s) Re: Wkipedia wants to erase Terry Shannon again ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 04:41:11 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: ... Here is a starter. > > http://www.kednos.com/physics/climatology/iceage.html This appears to be your own posting of the personal views (footnoted though they may be) of an oil/gas company geologist - hardly the most objective source. A refereed paper in a respected scientific journal would be far more credible: you can find superficially-authoritative support on the Internet for virtually any viewpoint as long as you're not picky. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 04:55:53 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <6eidnWfohvIBJWrYnZ2dnUVZ_tOmnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: ... > Actually, I think all the people who believe so strongly in this should > shut their cars off (don't sell it, that just moves the problem to > someone else's hands) get rid of the TV, stereo, computer, video game, > refirgerator, stove and all the other trappings of modern industrialized > life. Oops. My mistake. It's me you want to change my lifestyle, > not you. I already changed it long ago. My cars have averaged over 40 MPG for more than two decades now, and my previous cars and my wife's averaged in the mid-30s, I built our house 16 years ago with 13" of insulation in the walls and roof, we heated it with wood and solar panels for the first 13 years (I finally broke down and got a small propane furnace which uses about 500 gallons per year - not too bad for central New Hampshire, even though we did splurge a bit by building about 3500 square feet), we recycle and avoid unnecessary consumption, and our other energy use is at worst moderate. So it indeed is your mistake: try not to compound it further by continuing to be such an idiot. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 04:45:38 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: Paul Sture wrote: ... > "Global Warming - Is it real?" > > http://mclean.ch/climate/global_warming.htm Are you seriously offering up John McLean (though he seemed a nice enough fellow when we were working on the VMS paper) as an authority on climate change? - bill ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 04:41:02 -0700 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173872462.656567.204780@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On 13 Mar, 15:46, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <55mc3uF25oge...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. I agree. There is almost unanimous scientific agreement that A the world is getting hotter and B that mans activities through the release of greenhouse gases and the destruction of CO2 regulators like the tropical rainforest's is making the situation worse. Idiots can argue about Sun cycles etc as much as they like but the sad reality is that their arguments fall into the same category as early theological arguments about the number of angels you could get on a pinhead. The sad irony is that there is also a very good economic argument for ignoring the people who are in Global Warming Denial and pushing ahead with CO2 reduction programs. Oil and Coal are the two most significant sources of man produced CO2. World Oil production has peaked while demand has not, this inevitably will lead to long term price rises which will impact the economies most dependent on Oil and Coal the worst while impacting low carbon economies least. The Bush administration's inability to grasp this is probably the biggest single long term threat to the US economy. Even at current energy prices installing energy efficient light bulbs and super insulating my house have paid for themselves in roughly 12 months in terms of reducing my utility bills while composting and recycling costs me nothing while having a positive effect on our carbon footprint. Our rain water recycling system will take longer to pay for itself but I expect that to break even in 4 years. As business cases I can sell this kind of return to almost anyone except it would seem the Bush administration. Nor is the US well placed to reap the benefits which will come from the new industries spawned by the demand for renewables. Without access to a large internal market and without government support the US should expect to become a net importer of renewable technologies and associated technologies such as nuclear power. The worlds largest suppliers of Wind generators and Biomass heating systems are European as are the most likely technologies for future Nuclear generation facilities. The state of California has recognized this. To pile irony on irony, when the Bush administration ruled out implementing Kyoto they did so ostensibly because of a claimed cost to the US economy of 400 billion dollars. Not long after this Bush invaded Iraq ostensibly to depose Saddam but in reality to get access to a secure source of Oil in the middle east. The invasion of Iraq has cost at least 400 billion dollars so far and has not resulted in a secure Oil supply. At least ratifying Kyoto would have forced US consumers and industry to address the issue which made a secure Oil source an imperative if the economy is to survive. Contemplate the situation the US may find itself in in the next 3 decades where they lose the top spot for CO2 emissions not because the US has cleaned its act up but because the source of those emissions has become too expensive for the US economy. regards Andrew Harrison ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 06:27:13 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173878833.128049.135800@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 7:06 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: b...@instantwhip.com > > > so you were around when this asteroid hit? > > what happened to the dinosaurs is a world flood hit ... > > ever hear of Noah and the ark? > > Ever hear of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy? > > For the love of God, or as a personal favor to me, please take this > entire inappropriate, pointless, vacuous discussion to a more > appropriate forum. (Perhaps comp.os.vms.nla0.) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ever hear of the real Mt Siani being discovered in Saudi Arabia? all the events of the Bible are real. not just stories ... archaeology is proving it every day ... try these links and if you want to find out ... www.jimandpenny.com www.wyattmusuem.com ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 06:31:53 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173879113.092711.116600@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 14, 7:41 am, "Andrew" wrote: > On 13 Mar, 15:46, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > Koehler) wrote: > > In article <55mc3uF25oge...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > > I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > > with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > > aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. > > I agree. There is almost unanimous scientific agreement that A the > world is getting hotter and B that mans activities through the release > of greenhouse gases and the destruction of CO2 regulators like the > tropical rainforest's is making the situation worse. that is a lie ... more and more scientists everyday are jumping off the Al Gore global warming train ... this is a money grab by a lot of the universities and few scientists that are using the following equation to promote global warming CO2 + global warming bs = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 08:23:39 -0700 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173885819.380018.252440@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On 14 Mar, 13:31, b...@instantwhip.com wrote: > On Mar 14, 7:41 am, "Andrew" wrote: > > > On 13 Mar, 15:46, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > > Koehler) wrote: > > > In article <55mc3uF25oge...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > > > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > > > I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > > > with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > > > aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. > > > I agree. There is almost unanimous scientific agreement that A the > > world is getting hotter and B that mans activities through the release > > of greenhouse gases and the destruction of CO2 regulators like the > > tropical rainforest's is making the situation worse. > > that is a lie ... more and more scientists everyday are jumping off > the > Al Gore global warming train ... > > this is a money grab by a lot of the universities and few scientists > that are using the following equation to promote global warming > > CO2 + global warming bs = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Rubbish the UN Panel on Climate Change report published on the 1st of February had a higher degree of unanimity than any previous report and it was backed by 2500 of the worlds leading Climate Scientists. The previous report published in 2001 put the likelihood of mankind's activities influencing climate change at 66%, the 2007 report now revises that up to over 90%. BP who have left the Global Climate Coalition a petroleum industry lobbying organization said this about climate change in 1997. "The time to consider the policy dimensions of climate change is not when the link between greenhouse gases and climate change is conclusively proven, but when the possibility cannot be discounted ... We in BP have reached that point" -- John Browne, Chief Executive of BP http://www.bp.com/subsection.do?categoryId=4529&contentId=7014604 Shell have also left the GCC for similar reasons. Namely that there is no point funding a lobbying organization to refute a point which you believe to be true. The Stern report published last year collected all the available evidence and attempted to cost the impact of climate change to the global economy, their temperature and sea level rise estimates were quite conservative but even then the report estimates that climate change will cost 20% of worldwide GDP if we wait or 1% if we start now. The reality is that there is a far greater degree of consensus in Climate change science than there has ever been and that is now backed with the economic costs of not doing anything. To suggest otherwise is total BS. My prediction is that in the not so distant future climate change denial will be as unfashionable as holocaust denial is today. Regards Andrew Harrison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:27:48 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <07031411274867_2020028F@antinode.org> From: bob@instantwhip.com > On Mar 13, 7:06 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > > From: b...@instantwhip.com > > > > > so you were around when this asteroid hit? > > > what happened to the dinosaurs is a world flood hit ... > > > ever hear of Noah and the ark? > > > > Ever hear of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy? > > > > For the love of God, or as a personal favor to me, please take this > > entire inappropriate, pointless, vacuous discussion to a more > > appropriate forum. (Perhaps comp.os.vms.nla0.) > ever hear of the real Mt Siani being discovered in Saudi Arabia? > all the events of the Bible are real. not just stories ... > archaeology is proving it every day ... > try these links and if you want to find out ... > [...] Unlike the people who have been wasting much time and disk space in attempts to persuade you of anything, I learned long ago that rational arguments are almost always powerless against someone's faith. Faced with someone who believes that a Biblical flood killed off the dinosaurs, I simply decline to add more inappropriate, pointless clutter to what was supposed to be (and should be) a VMS technical forum, in a futile attempt to persuade him of anything at all. My time and disk space are too valuable to me for that. I will, however, renew my appeal that you and your opponents take this "discussion" to a more appropriate forum, as simple courtesy would demand, but, sadly, I must admit that experience deters me from holding out much hope. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 04:09:22 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: Biofules was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:21:20 -0800, Bob Koehler > wrote: > >> In article , JF Mezei >> writes: >>> >>> Divert that surplus to production of fuel and not only could the >>> respective >>> government stop highly subsidizing their farmers, but there would no >>> longer be a >>> surplus of wheet/corn, allowing farmers in developping nations to >>> make a living >>> from their crops and greatly help the plight of those countries. >>> >> >> If all the land currently in production in the US and all the land >> intentionally allowed to lay fallow were used for nothing other than >> to grow bio-fuels (meaning we'd import ALL our food instead of being >> one of the world's largest food exporters), we could not make enough >> bio-fuels to stop importing oil. >> > How many calories does take to produce one liter of ethanol, and how many > calories can be extracted from that liter? The real question is how many more calories can be extracted from it than the *nonrenewable* calories required to produce it. While wasting *renewable* calories may itself become an issue down the road, as long as there are enough available to reduce the use of *nonrenewable* calories it's still a net win right now. Producing ethanol from what would otherwise be waste products is a clear win: virtually all the calories (renewable or not) were already spent to produce the non-waste product that generated that waste. Hell, the waste would otherwise ferment, break down, and release a significant percentage of its carbon back into the atmosphere anyway, so burning it productively rather than throwing that energy away is eminently sensible. Producing bio-fuel on land that would otherwise lie fallow (as long as sensible crop rotation is used to avoid depleting the land) is nearly as clear a win, as long as minimal use of nonrenewable energy sources occurs (such use should obviously be minimized in the previous case as well, but there the primary - non-waste - product determines just how much use of non-renewables might be justifiable, whereas when the primary product is the bio-fuel itself then clearly it can't possibly justify high levels of nonrenewable energy use). The fact that proper use of bio-fuel (and other forms of renewable energy which are still grossly underutilized) may not be able to offset all oil imports, or X% of total fossil fuel use, really isn't very relevant as long as it can reduce it even moderately significantly. Because the fact is that we have to reduce carbon emissions drastically regardless of *how* we do that, so the real question is just what *balance* of approaches will reach the required target (renewables, increased efficiency, just plain cutting back, possibly atomic power as a stop-gap: while its waste is also a major problem, it's not the *same* problem that threatens us in the coming decades, and we've already got it to some degree anyway - though it's worth remembering that atomic fuel itself is a finite, non-renewable resource which won't solve our problems long-term, though fusion power presumably would). In other words, continuing to consume fossil fuel at anything like current rates is just not on the table as an option (not only because of global warming but because of its decidedly finite nature): the discussion really should be about what the balance among the alternative approaches should be, not carping about their inability to sustain what has already become an unsustainable life-style (at least using the current "Hey, the climate isn't *that* bad yet and we're nowhere nearly out of oil - so why worry?" mind-set). - bill ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 07:40:58 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Biofules was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <3ZkJh1Nax9YI@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > How many calories does take to produce one liter of ethanol, and how many > calories can be extracted from that liter? Before or after liver disease sets in? 8-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 06:43:01 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Climatology was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:41:11 -0800, Bill Todd wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: > > ... > > Here is a starter. >> http://www.kednos.com/physics/climatology/iceage.html > > This appears to be your own posting of the personal views (footnoted > though they may be) of an oil/gas company geologist - hardly the most > objective source. A refereed paper in a respected scientific journal > would be far more credible: you can find superficially-authoritative > support on the Internet for virtually any viewpoint as long as you're > not picky. That may be true, but the science reads well, at least to a trained physicist. Here is another newsletter I received, which has some references to scientific literature. http://www.kednos.com/physics/climatology/what_we_now_know_week_of_january_9_2007.htm Now, these guys are invetment advisors, and they are simply lookin at it from the point of view, whether there is an financial opportunity in the global warming debate. Never-the-less, interesting reading. > > - bill -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 08:29:18 -0700 From: "Andrew" Subject: Re: Climatology was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173886157.218251.164880@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 14 Mar, 14:43, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:41:11 -0800, Bill Todd > wrote: > > > Tom Linden wrote: > > > ... > > > Here is a starter. > >> http://www.kednos.com/physics/climatology/iceage.html > > > This appears to be your own posting of the personal views (footnoted > > though they may be) of an oil/gas company geologist - hardly the most > > objective source. A refereed paper in a respected scientific journal > > would be far more credible: you can find superficially-authoritative > > support on the Internet for virtually any viewpoint as long as you're > > not picky. > > That may be true, but the science reads well, at least to a trained > physicist. Here is another newsletter I received, which has some > references > to scientific literature. > > http://www.kednos.com/physics/climatology/what_we_now_know_week_of_ja... > > Now, these guys are invetment advisors, and they are simply lookin at it > from > the point of view, whether there is an financial opportunity in the global > warming debate. Never-the-less, interesting reading. > > I prefer the UN panel on Climate Change and the Stern Report one says that Climate change is happening and we are to blame and the other tells you how much it is going to cost to fix and how much it will cost if we don't bother. Regards Andrew Harrison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:46:22 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: In article <1173820232_28111@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, Jeff Campbell writes: >JF Mezei wrote: >> Tom Linden wrote: >>> 160 Billion tons of CO2 goes into the atmosphere every year, man is =20 >>> responsible >>> for about 6 of those >>=20 >> How many tonnes do plants reabsorb from the atmosphere ? Your statemen= >t=20 >> is meaningless without that metric. >>=20 >> About bio-fuels: they may not be the magic answer to replace oil=20 >> completely. But they can certaintly significantly reduce oil use. If al= >l=20 >> US cars ran on a mix of 10% bio fuel, this would reduce by 10% the net = > >> CO2 addition from the US cars.=20 > >Combustion of ethanol forms carbon dioxide and water: > > C2H5OH + 3 O2 =E2=86=92 2 CO2 +3 H2O > But the idea is that the plants used to make the ethanol had removed that CO2 from the atmosphere when they were growing. So that the net impact on CO2 levels is zero. The only problem with that idea is that it doesn't take into account CO2 produced in processing the plants into ethanol etc David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > > That does not stop the problem, but it is >> a step forward. And for every percentage that you reduce net CO2=20 >> emissions, it gives you more time to find a permanent solution. > > >----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 07:37:57 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: In article <1173825836.742652.257350@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: > > this has been going on for thousands of years ... and it is caused by > the > sun ... solar flare activity will be at its worst this year and may > knock > out another satelite or cell communications ... I think it's been going on for millions of years. But our contribution has not. And our contribution is showing significant, measured, problems. The Sun's contribution may not be under our control, but it takes about an 11 year cycle. Measured temperature changes track more closely to human activity than they do to the 11 year cycle. So leave the poor Sun out of it. The evidence shows not guilty. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:55:58 +0000 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: found .jb files Message-ID: chris wrote: > Ive found some old .jb files and .cd files in an old directory on our > cluster > what are .jb files and can i view them , (apart from edt or type)? Chris, VMS is not Windoze. The naming of files is up to the user, and the "extension" (i.e. the .jb and .cd parts) have no *implicit* meaning. They could be anything the original creator of the files wanted to call them. Sure, you can view them. Anything from TYPE, to EDIT, to DUMP. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 07:21:08 -0500 From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Message-ID: <18uug7lu9KJH@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > > Not indended to be legal document. It's a guide to assist in planning > for future features. "Subject to change" is all over the document. > > Try getting a 5 year futures commitment from any vendor on any platform > about any product. > > Good luck. > 1) How about this from the Microsoft patches (note the 5 years of Mainstream support): |Microsoft Support Lifecycle for Business and Developer Software |=============================================================== |The Microsoft Support Lifecycle policy provides consistent and |predictable guidelines for product support availability at the |time that the product is released. Under this policy, Microsoft |will offer a minimum of ten years of support. This includes five |years of Mainstream Support and five years of Extended Support for |Business and Developer products. Microsoft will continue to provide |security update support, at a supported Service Pack level, for a |minimum of ten years through the Extended support phase. For more |information about the Microsoft Support Lifecycle, visit |http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/ or contact your Technical |Account Manager. Or the 10 year plan that DEC put in place when it dropped the PDP-10 in 1983 ? Or the 5 year support committment for the server version of Ubuntu 6.06 LTS ? Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP If Google's motto is "don't be evil", then how did we get Google Groups 2 ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:15:22 -0700 From: "Malcolm Dunnett" Subject: Re: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS Message-ID: <45f81f55$1@flight> "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:1fe79$45f6e44d$cef8887a$19377@TEKSAVVY.COM... > Sue, did you have anything to do with this ? Such as conveying to VMS > management user demand for the standard edition ? Or did Oracle do this > totally on its own? > > Either way, you deserve a virtual, politically correct big HUG ! I'd like to think my efforts to convey my concerns about the situation to HP and Oracle management had some role in the decision, but regardless of who finally convinced Oracle to change their position I'd like to offer up a great big thanks too. I'd like to personally thank Sue, Chris Brown (Director of Strategy, HP OpenVMS Software Group), Ann McQuaid, Gaitan D'Antoni, Sandy Vella and Stephen Boyle (Global Platform Alliances, Oracle) for bearing with me through this and for finding an excellent resolution to the issue. I hope this means that Oracle has found a low-effort way to produce Standard Edition for VMS from Enterprise Edition and that this will insure that SE will continue to be available on future releases. Now it's up to you VMS supporters out there to prove to Oracle this was worthwhile by purchasing lots of Oracle Standard Edition for VMS licenses, ultimately only a strong market will insure the product remains available. Please tell me that I'm not the only SE for VMS customer!! ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 07:16:55 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: output from cron ssh to VMS? Message-ID: In article , colonel@monmouth.com (The Invisible Fire That Works In Public) writes: > I would like to run a program on a VMS system under cron control on a > Linux system. This works (usually) as intended, except that I cannot > capture the standard output of the program. > > If I do this from my Linux shell, it works: > > $ ssh ourvms show time > > 13-MAR-2007 11:06:02 > $ > > If I do it from a cron job, it gives me no output: > > 07 11 * * * ssh ourvms show time >/tmp/time > > The output file is empty. Using the ssh flag "-t" does not help. > (Neither does "-T"!) The mail message from cron says "Pseudo- > terminal will not be allocated because stdin is not a terminal." > cron capabilities and features vary widely across UNIX, and I don't know the Linux cron very well. That being said, I try a few quick cron jobs to find out what username the job is really running under, it may not be the same one you're using interactively. Security auditing on the VMS system may give you a clue as to failures related to coming in as the wrong username. Accounting records can give you the exit status if the connection is being made to the VMS system but failing for some other reason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:56:51 -0700 From: - Subject: Re: output from cron ssh to VMS? Message-ID: Hoary Hairy Hoax wrote: > In , Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org wrote: >> This is an error arising from an interaction of Linux and cron and >> ssh. Based on what I see in your message and what I find on the 'net, >> this does not involve OpenVMS. > > That may be. My test works with AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, other Linux systems, > and even Cygwin for Windows. It fails only with OpenVMS. > >> Based on what I find, it's a pretty common problem. ssh and cron >> don't seem to like each other. Usual recommendations are -f, -n and -t, >> IIRC. See , >> which has some references. > > I'll look it over. I've already tried -n and -t. I can't use -f in a > cron job; there's no foreground. > >> For cron, I'd expect the no-password path through ssh need be >> working end-to-end, too. There's no password prompting available >> in cron. > > It is. I have public-key authentication working for all our develop- > ment hosts. In fact, the outgoing host has BatchMode=no by default, to > disable password authentication. > >> I might well ask why ssh is used to grab the time off a remote >> system, or if there is something other than SHOW TIME that is the actual >> target. There are far easier ways to deal with system time, such as >> setting up the OpenVMS box to use NTP. All of which implies you're up >> to something else here. > > That's just for investigating! My real purpose is to compile my company's > software on the VMS system (and the other systems I mentioned). Thanks > for your response. It helps to know that there's no easy answer. > > -:- > K Cobalt's metal, hard and shining. > Cobol's wordy and confining. > KOBOLDS topple when you strike them-- > Don't feel bad, it's hard to like them. > > --The Roguelet's ABC I'm sure if you were a bit more forthcoming in describing the problem you're trying to solve, we could do a better job answering your question. FWIW, it seems you're pushing the cart instead of pulling it. Consider running your Make scripts on the target system, then monitoring the output via a web interface or email. It's not clear from your final description (software build) why you want/need ssh capability. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 04:58:56 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: RMS indexed file structure questions Message-ID: <763b3$45f7b975$cef8887a$13021@TEKSAVVY.COM> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > Read the second part of my RMS_TUNING.PPT on the OpenVMS V6.0 Freeware > [RMS_TOOLS] > Read it again. Reading it again, after my twadling into the file was good. > more specifically entire clusters of data are whiped out. Actually, it can be portions of a cluster. The LD drive wrote over "random" sequences of blocks, it didn't know to squish at 30 block boundaries (the bucket size for that file). So I may have a bucket that starts off valid but only has 10 valid blocks with the remainder containing junk. And conversely, I may have a cluster which has only its first block invalid, but still contains valid records after it. Your presentation does not cover the type of failure I experienced :-( The primary and only index is uncompressed. It appears to be in 2 levels. In ana/rms/interactive, the first index level appears to have 8 entries (last one has a key filled with %xFF. I was able to DOWN DOWN from each of the 8 entries, and then "REST" to display all keys in that branch. Does this mean that my index is actually intact ? Is it correct to state that traversing the index will only give me the highest key value of each data bucket ? (but would give me a list of VBNs where each bucket starts) ? ------------ In my case, the DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION is off, but DATA_RECORD_COMPRESSION is on. So, when I end up extracting the variable length record from that raw file, it will be compressed. Is the compression logic publicly documented ? complex ? (I looked at your record_compression.c example, and it wasn't obvious what logic is used to uncompress the data). If I write the compressed raw records to a sequential file, then use CONVERT to load it to a new indexed file (defined with record-compression:OFF), would I be able to tweak a bit to enable record compression (similar to a SET FILE/ATRRIB) and RMS would then succesfully decompress each record ? I have seen mention of RRV a few times. What does this mean ? > Valid data bucket are easy to recognize by the 14 bucket header bytes what are the check bytes ? Is this a checksum ? In your sample programs, I noticed that you calculate total record length by adding key length to the record length. You have the following structure: #pragma nomember_alignment struct record {unsigned char flag; short id, rrv_id; int vbn; short length; unsigned char key_length, key_count, key[]; }; What is the key count ? In my case however, taking the 2 bytes preceeding start of key seems to give me a record length which approaches what DUMP/RECORD gives me. (but off by a number of bytes, I assume due to record decompression. If I choose the length that is 4 bytes before the key data, I get some "20300" integer number for each record. Are there different record header layouts for different types of indexed files ? (this is a prolog 3, single key file). Also, is it possible that with record compression on, the stored record will be longer by a couple of bytes than the actual record ? > The index records are never updated for a delete, as they point to a > bucket, not to a record. But if you delete the rightmost record in a bucket, wouldn't the index be updated to contain the key of the new rightmost record ? Or does the key or the deleted record remain in the index ? > Too bad this is not a commercially critial file. > I love to do this stuff for real money. Yeah, but it is a learning experience for me :-) :-( :-( Since this was a bug with the LD driver provided with 8.3 which caused this corruption, perhaps HP might pay you to fix this hobbyist system indexed file ???? :-) :-) :-) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 05:03:27 -0700 From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" Subject: Re: RMS indexed file structure questions Message-ID: <1173873807.020268.234070@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 14, 4:58 am, JF Mezei wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > > > more specifically entire clusters of data are whiped out. > Actually, it can be portions of a cluster. The LD drive wrote over "random" > sequences of blocks, If I recall correctly it might have used LBN -> VBN mapping from one disk onto an other. So the cluster size may have been different, and as you say it might have only written a few blocks impying an update or append.The most likely case though is a series of blocks starting at a cluster boundary on the real target disk. No, indeed it would no have know about the bucket size. > So I may have a bucket that starts off valid but only has > 10 valid blocks with the remainder containing junk. That's what I was saying, and for those you patch the NEXT FREE byte in the header. > And conversely, I may have a > cluster which has only its first block invalid, but still contains valid records > after it. Your presentation does not cover the type of failure I experienced :-( That's the hardest to recover from. I did believe I mention that. You have to reconstruct a bucket header. And then you have to fill the space up to the start of teh good record with a deleted record (with the right key in case of compression). I only needed to do that once ever... For Andy Goldsteins MAIL.MAI file. > The primary and only index is uncompressed. It appears to be in 2 levels. It will tell you. But 2 is most likely. > In ana/rms/interactive, the first index level appears to have 8 entries (last one > has a key filled with %xFF. Sure. > I was able to DOWN DOWN from each of the 8 entries, and then "REST" to display > all keys in that branch. Does this mean that my index is actually intact ? Sounds like it. So no you know the VBN of each potential data bucket. > Is it correct to state that traversing the index will only give me the highest > key value of each data bucket ? Yes. > (but would give me a list of VBNs where each bucket starts) ? Yes. > So, when I end up extracting the variable length record from that raw file, it > will be compressed. Is the compression logic publicly documented ? complex ? (I > looked at your record_compression.c example, and it wasn't obvious what logic is > used to uncompress the data). yes, no, no, right tool. The compression is just a repeating byte count for repeats > 5 (or so). Each chunk then is: length, data bytes, last-byte, repeat-count-for- last-byte-value. > If I write the compressed raw records to a sequential file, then use CONVERT to > load it to a new indexed file (defined with record-compression:OFF), would I be > able to tweak a bit to enable record compression (similar to a SET FILE/ATRRIB) > and RMS would then succesfully decompress each record ? Yuck. It would be easier to patch up the data buckets in the broken file. IMHO. Or try the -b option for http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/rms_tools/bonus/buckets.c > I have seen mention of RRV a few times. What does this mean ? It's a 4-byte VBN + 2 byte ID. It's the RFA for where the Record started out. Not to worry. > > Valid data bucket are easy to recognize by the 14 bucket header bytes > what are the check bytes ? Is this a checksum ? Just a simple, wrapping, modification counter. Starts out 0 on a convert. Often corresponds to the number of record in the bucket. (no updates, no deletes, just $put) > In your sample programs, I noticed that you calculate total record length by > adding key length to the record length. The primary key is extracted from the record and moved to the front of the rest record data, which is a no-op for most files. > You have the following structure: > #pragma nomember_alignment > struct record {unsigned char flag; > short id, rrv_id; > int vbn; > short length; > unsigned char key_length, key_count, key[]; }; > > What is the key count ? The number of bytes to re-use from the key value from the PRIOR record. Only present with KEY (or INDEX) compression enabled. Not present in your case. My record definition is sloppy. I adjust at runtime based on the flags. > Also, is it possible that with record compression on, the stored record will be > longer by a couple of bytes than the actual record ? Yes, if no sufficiently long sequence of repeating bytes was detected, then having compression adds 3 bytes. (length word + repeat count byte). > But if you delete the rightmost record in a bucket, wouldn't the index be > updated to contain the key of the new rightmost record ? Or does the key or the > deleted record remain in the index ? The bucket remains permanently associated with its first high key value it obtained on the bucket split (which may have been the simple transition from the high key FF for the last bucket to the real key. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 07:34:43 -0700 From: "palm123" Subject: Re: TELNET - session timeout parameter(s) Message-ID: <1173882883.692939.313790@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On 13 mar, 14:46, Chuck Aaron wrote: > What parameter(s) can you increase to extend the timeout > period of a telnet session? > > Thanks. Do $ @sys$startup:tcpip$define_commands $ sysconfig -q inet Look at tcp_keepidle It is at 14 400 on my system, but depending on your Tcpip version, it can be much different. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2007 09:18:03 -0700 From: "Ian Miller" Subject: Re: Wkipedia wants to erase Terry Shannon again Message-ID: <1173889083.079547.231920@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> The result was Keep, nomination withdrawn (and little chance of deletion anyway). -Amarkov moo! 14:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC) ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.146 ************************