INFO-VAX Mon, 26 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 169 Contents: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Raccoons Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: ANN: soyMAIL v1.3 is now available Re: ENOUGH! Re: ENOUGH! Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Re: New site for OpenVMS books Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Re: Progress Graphic Re: Progress Graphic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:55:47 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: In article <1174829379.097751.192600@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" writes: >On Mar 24, 8:56 pm, Bill Todd wrote: >> n.ri...@sympatico.ca wrote: >> >[...snip...] > >> Do you have a reference for that? While the statement might be true for >> the large majority of fundamentalist wackos, if it's really true of >> 'most protestants' it's a pretty sad commentary on the state to which >> their sects here have fallen (and I certainly don't know many - possibly >> any - non-fundamentalists who would fit that description, though the >> religious members of my family tend toward Methodists, who perhaps along >> with Unitarians and like-minded believers may be a cut above, say, >> groups like Baptists in this area, not that I'm anything like >> well-versed in such distinctions). >> >> Or are fundamentalist wackos now in fact such a large majority of 'all >> protestants' that the statement can be true anyway? I'm not sure which >> state of affairs would be more disgusting, but it might be useful to >> know the difference. >> >> - bill > >Yes I have some references for you but you are correct to question my >statements since I do not work in this field and have not collected >stats on other faiths. > >Some of the stuff about Evolution and the Big Bang came from a book I >read titled "Brother Astronomer: Adventures of a Vatican Scientist". >(see page 85). As an aside, here are some other claims from the same >page relating to the advancement of science by men of the church: > Albert the Great - Father of Geology > Roger Bacon - Father of Chemistry > Gregor Mendel - Father of Genetics > Christopher Clavius - "second Euclid" of the renaissance > Angelo Secchi - father of Astrophysics > Georges Lemaitre - father of the Big Bang theory >I was shocked to learn that the Vatican still operates some large >astronomical observatories and maintains a rather large collection of >meteorittes. (Who knew?) > See for instance http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/vatican_observe_000716.html David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 2007 11:49:18 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174848558.828256.46280@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 8:29 am, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" wrote: > On Mar 24, 8:56 pm, Bill Todd wrote:> n.ri...@sympatico.ca wrote: > > [...snip...] > [...] > > Personal Data (may not apply to other protestants): > In my own church (Lutheran - Missouri synod) as well as my father's > home we kids were taught "it's OK to learn things like genetics, > evolution, astronomy in order to pass the grade but don't you believe > any of it because it is all godless". AAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (upper case intended) [...] > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ AEF ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 2007 13:36:21 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174854981.250095.238640@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 12:36 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:1174832279.176524.287560@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > On Mar 24, 7:06 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > >> wrote in message > > >>news:1174764993.781866.91760@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > >> > On Mar 24, 1:11 pm, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" > >> > wrote: > >> [...snip...] > > >> > you pray THROUGH Mary and the saints not TO them ... > >> > what is wrong with asking the mother of God to pray > >> > for you? > > >> There is nothing in the bible about her being alive in heaven. She awaits > >> the resurrection like all the dead people before and after her. > > >> NSR > > > your soul is alive in heaven ... boy are you lost ... > > And yet you say it with such authority. So, genius, let me get this > straight. When you die your soul immediately goes to heaven? Then after the > second coming there will be a judgment day and resurrection? During the > judgment process some souls will learn that they are not worthy of eternal > life? (someone attempting to apply logic to this would declare that heaven > has become tainted with the presence of lost souls) > > Your understanding of such matters is right up there with Santa Claus and > the Easter Bunny. (I make no such claim of understanding and find these > discussions as relevant as "how many angels can dance on the head of a > pin?") > > NSR > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - when you die, your soul goes to heaven only if you are saved and have confessed your sins, repented and have lived right ... when the rapture happens, those who are dead but saved are raised first, then those still alive who are saved follow them ... then after 7 years of judgement Christ returns with his saints who are already raised and He rules over the earth for 1000 years, then the earth is destroyed and a new heaven and earth are created ... this is all in revelation ... I can see how much you read the Bible ... ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 2007 18:31:30 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174872690.092200.94700@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 3:36 pm, gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > On Mar 25, 12:36 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > > > wrote in message > > >news:1174832279.176524.287560@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > > > > On Mar 24, 7:06 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > > >> wrote in message > > > >>news:1174764993.781866.91760@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > > >> > On Mar 24, 1:11 pm, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" > > >> > wrote: > > >> [...snip...] [...] > when you die, your soul goes to heaven only if you are > saved and have confessed your sins, repented and have > lived right ... Just a few questions here. What happened to people who lived before Christianity existed? These people couldn't have known about this living right and confession and such. Were they put on hold or something? What about those who die as infants or very young children? They never became old enough to live right and confess sins and such. What happens to them? Assuming they get to heaven, will they grow to be adults or be children forever or what? Recently there was a terrible fire in the Bronx in which I think 9 children died. Most people consider this a terrible tragedy. I'd assume you'd be among them. But according to you, they may end up in heaven. So then it's not a tragedy? How could going to heaven be a tragedy? Do you see what I'm getting at here? [...] ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 2007 16:56:30 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: 216 Million Raccoons Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174866990.184225.164960@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 5:02 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > > when you die, your soul goes to heaven only if you are > > saved and have confessed your sins, repented and have > > lived right ... > > You are allowed to believe what you want. But you are not allowed to impose > your beliefs onto others. > > Do chimpanzees go to heaven ? Do squirrels go to heaven ? What about mosquitoes? > Sharks ? Microbes ? They are all life forms. > > And when you die, how does the universe know how to route your soul to the right > place ? When you register with a specific religion, do they program your soul > with a routable IP address and there is one central router that handles all > deaths and routes souls to the appropriate location beased on its registered > religion ? If you're a hindu, do you go to hindu heaven ? If you are an > australian aborigine, do you go back to dream-time ? If you're a monkey, does > your soul go to some banana grove in a tropical paradise island ? > > When I turned off my all mighty microvax II over a year ago, I looked to see if > its soul would somehow rise and float towards ZKO where the VMS/VAX gods are > located. Didn't see anything. But its offspring survived and its original > system disk image now lives happily in two children, a 4000-600 and 4000-200. > > When you have a kid, you imprint your values and education onto the kid, and > part of your soul now lives in the kid. And generally speaking, bad guys don't > reproduce as much since they are not "family oriented". So one can argue that > Darwin's theory applies also to the soul. And if you reproduce and teach your > kid the same values as you were tought, then your family's soul continues to > live in your offspring. not imposing anything ... when you say you are protestant but know or believe certain things specific to that faith, then your statement becomes questionable ... ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 2007 13:41:27 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: ANN: soyMAIL v1.3 is now available Message-ID: <1174855287.061621.153680@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 11:03 am, Mark Daniel wrote: > gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > > On Mar 25, 9:11 am, Mark Daniel wrote: > > >>soyMAIL v1.3 is now available from the WASD download page > > >> http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/ > > >>This version provides a list of general refinements along with a small > >>number of significant changes: > > >> o autogenous authentication (allowing a distinct > >> login-usage-logout life-cycle) > >> o improved multiple mail file management > >> o composition 'delete all attachments when sent' checkbox > >> o automatic and transparent 'sent items' folder > >> o multiple 'draft items' management and folder > > >>Full release notes: > > >> http://wasd.vsm.com.au/soymail/-/release_notes.txt > > >>Enjoy! > > > our VP would certainly enjoy the enahnced folder management > > features ... does it still run under Purveyor? > > http://wasd.vsm.com.au/soymail/-/release_notes.txt- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I did not ask if it is still supported, I asked if it will still run as it does currently ... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:44:55 -0400 From: "Richard B. gilbert" Subject: Re: ENOUGH! Message-ID: <4606C327.9060400@comcast.net> AEF wrote: > On Mar 24, 8:18 pm, "Richard B. gilbert" > wrote: > >>Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >>>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >>>>I can't find any VMS content here between the religious/non-religious >>>>biased drivel, >>> >>>>I can probably get more search hits on "VMS" by searching the base-64 >>>>encoded posts in alt.binaries.sex.some.bizarre.disgusting.perversion >>>>than I can find here. >>> >>>>Thanks and I'll tune in again when everybody can, at least, put OT: on >>>>these completely OFF TOPIC postings. >>> >>>I think it is many years ago that c.o.v/I-V stopped being a real >>>technical forum. >> >>>What HP should do know and what HP/Compaq/Digital should have >>>done 5/10/20 years ago has long been the dominant topic. >> >>>If you ask me - the difference between that and a DCL or VMS >>>sysmgmt questions is bigger than between that and >>>global warming discussions. >> >>>Arne >> >>All these people who know best how DEC/Compaq/HP SHOULD have managed and >>marketed VMS and how many are president of anything or sit on the board >>of directors of anything?!?! How many manage to earn $200K/year or more >>doing anything at all? I include myself, BTW. > > > > VMS is being marketed? Since when? > > AEF > Up until about Spring 1995 DECUS when DEC decided that VMS was a "niche" O/S. Unix was "the wave of the future"! Of course Ultrix was a mess, even for Unix, and had a market share smaller than VMS but they thought it was where the development and marketing efforts should go. ;-( ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:03:44 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: ENOUGH! Message-ID: <4606d5a4$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Richard B. gilbert wrote: >> All these people who know best how DEC/Compaq/HP SHOULD have managed >> and marketed VMS and how many are president of anything or sit on >> the board of directors of anything?!?! How many manage to earn >> $200K/year or more doing anything at all? I include myself, BTW. > > Good question. > > My guess: very few. But greater than zero. > > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:02:58 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Message-ID: n.rieck@sympatico.ca wrote: ... below a depth of 3f (1m) most > American soil is never warmer than 65F or colder than 45F. According to the first three frost-line maps that fall to hand, that's incorrect. Average worst-case depth of frost penetration (which is what you've got to design things like building footings around) hits 3' for around 30% of the continental U.S. (thus one might very roughly estimate that something like half the continental U.S. occasionally experiences 3' deep soil temperatures below 45F), and the *maximum* depth of frost penetration (which depends more on very local conditions such as wind and sun exposure, soil type, vegetation, etc.) is 3' or more in at least some spots across about half the continental U.S. These statistics do not include Alaska - or Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Guam, but I seriously doubt that they affect the average nearly as much as Alaska does. You need to go at least 6' down (if you can - I don't have nearly that much soil cover myself) to find temperatures that vary only a few degrees F. from a location's overall average yearly temperature. I was somewhat surprised that I couldn't find a graph of average annual temperatures across the continental U.S. - around me it's about 46F, and the overall average is about 53F, so it would seem reasonable to believe that the vast majority of the continental U.S. that has 6' of soil cover is warm enough 6' down to support ground-source heat pumps (45F does seem like a reasonable minimum for that: you can't use circulating water, even with anti-freeze, to extract any significant amount of heat from frozen ground, and the soil has to be far enough above freezing that extracting the heat doesn't drop it below freezing around the piping). I certainly support the use of ground-source heat pumps - but people should know what amount of earth-moving they may have to get into to use them. - bill ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 2007 14:19:11 -0700 From: yyyc186@hughes.net Subject: Re: New site for OpenVMS books Message-ID: <1174857551.890384.255040@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Mar 24, 8:29 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > > You must *REALLY* hate Amazon, etc. to go such personal expense... Words cannot describe. There is a reason they don't get to stock the books and never will. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:35:38 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:08:13 -0800, David J Dachtera wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> >> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:24:40 -0800, David J Dachtera >> wrote: >> >> > [snip] >> > Perhaps, at some point, this will dawn on HP - perhaps after their UX >> > business >> > has already spun down the commode and the government has taken over >> > OpenVMS, >> > [snip] >> >> Is that an option available to the government? > > Are there *ANY* options which are *NOT* available to the government? > I mean contractual access to source under certain circumstances, such as bankruptcy, etc. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:28:29 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Progress Graphic Message-ID: <1601f$4606db79$cef8887a$13940@TEKSAVVY.COM> Tom Linden wrote: > > Your search - "motif progress meter widget" - did not match any documents. > also tried several other combos > http://www.vaxination.ca/motif/index_frames.html Look on the left for "XmScale" It comes with Motif. And its function is also shown in: cd decw$examples run periodic (the value can be displayed or omitted). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:58:19 -0500 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Progress Graphic Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" wrote: > > If it really is a GUI progress meter you're looking for, type "motif > > progress meter widget" into Google and see what you come up with. > > > > Your search - "motif progress meter widget" - did not match any documents. > also tried several other combos Well, if you consider 19,900 hits to be nothing. The one that sounds most promising is this one: http://hpux.cs.utah.edu/hppd/hpux/X11/Toolkits/ProgMeter-0.1/ I have no idea whether it works on VMS, but it is an X-11 gizmo and source code is available. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.169 ************************