INFO-VAX Wed, 28 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 173 Contents: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: a cluster question Re: a cluster question Capturing and using NT login for security with Apache Re: ENOUGH! Re: FC SAN UDID Re: New site for OpenVMS books Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" OpenVMS Boot Camp Agenda now available Re: OSU update: soyMAIL v1.3 is now available Re: OSU update: soyMAIL v1.3 is now available Re: OT: Re: Phoenix electric cars Re: RSX-11M-Plus Pool questions Re: RSX-11M-Plus Pool questions RSX-11M-Plus Pool questions - Jeff's Response Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: So has any one thought about this? Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Mar 2007 16:53:49 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1175039629.275225.28020@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 9:05 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: > > Just a few questions here. What happened to people who lived before > > Christianity existed? > > >Were they put on hold or > > > something? > > Your death is veryimportant to us. Please stay on the line to keep your > priority and your death will be processed by the next available angel once > contruction of heaven is complete. If you do not wish to hold for a few > thousand years for your upgrade from limbo to heaven, or wish to go to hell > without any delay, press 666 now. > :-) I like it!!! There's construction in heaven??? Man, even in death you can't escape construction!!! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:21:35 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: a cluster question Message-ID: Don.Zong@gmail.com wrote: > In our case( 3-node cluster) , if expected_vote is 2, quorum = (2+2)/ > 2=2; if expected_votes is 3, quorum is still 2 -- (3+2)/2 = 2, seems > there is no conflict with cluster theory, any comments on that? The votes are like LMF. They are not the means by themselves, they are a tool to manage a policy. You use the votes to prevent cluster partitioning and other nasty situations. But to do that, you need to understand your own cluster, what node depends on what resources, how resources are shared, and what happens with various types of failures between each/all nodes. In the case of expected_votes, you need to look at various booting sequences, from a power failure recovery where all nodes are booting at the same time, to situations where node boot in various combinations/sequences and with various failure scenarios (ethernet disconnection for instance). You may then see some situations where you could get data problems and can then tune the voting scheme to prevent that situation from happening. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 13:45:25 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: a cluster question Message-ID: In article <1175017450.156604.11060@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, "Don.Zong@gmail.com" writes: > In our case( 3-node cluster) , if expected_vote is 2, quorum = (2+2)/ > 2=2; if expected_votes is 3, quorum is still 2 -- (3+2)/2 = 2, seems > there is no conflict with cluster theory, any comments on that? Just so. The low order bit in the value of the EXPECTED_VOTES parameter is irrelevant. As long as you get the right value for QUORUM, you're in good shape. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 15:05:41 -0700 From: "mecograph" Subject: Capturing and using NT login for security with Apache Message-ID: <1175033141.931371.74320@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Hi Everyone, This will probably be the oddest question asked this month. I have created some web pages that are presented to my customers using the Apache web server on VMS. My customers will be using a shortcut on their Windows desktop (or a "favorite" in their Internet Explorer browser) to retrieve these pages from VMS using Apache. I am required to add security to these pages so that only a select group of employees can view them. I'm wondering if there is any way that the network login that the customers use to login to their windows session can be captured by Apache when the web page is requested and validated using security on the VMS directory where the web page resides. In other words, can I test for the NT login (or some other flag to distinguish who is requesting the page) and use that information to restrict access to the web page on the VMS host? Thanks for any ideas you have! Derek Cohn dcohn@express-scripts.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:02:43 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: ENOUGH! Message-ID: <4609BEB3.32EB4775@spam.comcast.net> "Richard B. gilbert" wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > "Richard B. gilbert" wrote: > > > >>Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> > >>>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>I can't find any VMS content here between the religious/non-religious > >>>>biased drivel, > >>> > >>> > >>>>I can probably get more search hits on "VMS" by searching the base-64 > >>>>encoded posts in alt.binaries.sex.some.bizarre.disgusting.perversion > >>>>than I can find here. > >>> > >>> > >>>>Thanks and I'll tune in again when everybody can, at least, put OT: on > >>>>these completely OFF TOPIC postings. > >>> > >>> > >>>I think it is many years ago that c.o.v/I-V stopped being a real > >>>technical forum. > >>> > >>>What HP should do know and what HP/Compaq/Digital should have > >>>done 5/10/20 years ago has long been the dominant topic. > >>> > >>>If you ask me - the difference between that and a DCL or VMS > >>>sysmgmt questions is bigger than between that and > >>>global warming discussions. > >>> > >>>Arne > >>> > >> > >>All these people who know best how DEC/Compaq/HP SHOULD have managed and > >>marketed VMS and how many are president of anything or sit on the board > >>of directors of anything?!?! How many manage to earn $200K/year or more > >>doing anything at all? I include myself, BTW. > > > > > > ...and your point is? > > > > How many multi-billion dolar companies did Bill Gates found before M$ evolved > > into what it is today? > > > > From your 401K or other investment account statement: "Past history is no > > guarantee of future performance." > > > > When the presumably educated/accomplished are (Censored)ing up as badly as this > > bunch, a cat with a crayon in its mouth could likely do a better job. > > > > When you build YOUR first billion dollar company, I will listen > respectfully to anything you have to say. Until then, you'll just have > to ignore the strange noises I make while trying not to laugh. Well, I think I've done pretty well for a poor kid from the wrong side of town with no degrees and a measured IQ of 69. Laugh away... -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:29:29 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: FC SAN UDID Message-ID: Mark Iline wrote: > Does anyone know if it is possible to access a Fibre Channel SAN disk's > UDID via a SCSI sense mode or set mode command under OpenVMS ? It is not a mode to be set or sensed. HSG, HSV, and MSA Devices use a Digital Private SCSI commands to read / write the UDID. The MSA and HSV will also allow the SCSI Report Device Identifier command to read the UDID. In these cases the value of 0 indicates no identifier set. There are corresponding commands to set the UDID. I do not know if they are supported or implemented in the HSG or HSV. The XP array does not appear to allow the UDID to be set through SCSI commands as the UDID is calculated based on other parameters. Third party devices may or may not allow a UDID to be set. The Alpha consoles only support using the Digital Private SCSI command to obtain a UDID. Integrity systems will support both. Recent OpenVMS versions will first try the official SCSI command and then the Digital private command as a fallback. > It would be particularly useful if someone had code that would allow the > reading and setting of the UDID field. > > [Please excuse any naive optimism in the above...] Someone in the VMS storage group may be able to give you that information. Or if you have access to the source listings, you can see what OpenVMS does. I can not give exact information as all my stuff is in a moving van at an unknown location. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 20:22:17 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: New site for OpenVMS books Message-ID: yyyc186@hughes.net wrote: > On Mar 24, 8:29 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > > > You must *REALLY* hate Amazon, etc. to go such personal expense... > Words cannot describe. There is a reason they don't get to stock the > books and never will. Can't say as I blame you. I've seen them try to sell a book, when I know for a fact that they didn't have any copies of it, and they were asking significantly less than they would be able to obtain a new copy for. BTW, Firefox 1.5.0.6/Linux has some fairly serious problems displaying the new site. In at least a couple spots there is overlapping text. Zane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:23:41 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Message-ID: In article <4605CB7D.CF8B1CDA@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: > > > > On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:24:40 -0800, David J Dachtera > > wrote: > > > > > [snip] > > > Perhaps, at some point, this will dawn on HP - perhaps after their UX > > > business > > > has already spun down the commode and the government has taken over > > > OpenVMS, > > > [snip] > > > > Is that an option available to the government? > > Are there *ANY* options which are *NOT* available to the government? Er, getting an IT project done on time and to budget. Oops, I'm thinking a different government there. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 16:38:35 -0700 From: "Sue" Subject: OpenVMS Boot Camp Agenda now available Message-ID: <1175038715.788748.301620@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> Dear Distribution lists, It is my pleasure to announce that the preliminary boot camp agenda is now available on the HP OpenVMS web site: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/index.html Please be aware that there will be changes, and its not final until the week is over since there may be "on demand" sessions based on customer request. Please pass the word. OK to post I encourage you to register as soon as possible since registration is limited. A word on pre-symposium seminars these are free and are for boot camp attendees only and will be at the HP office which is a 5 minute walk from the hotel Week of May 14 Alpha Crash Dump Analysis - Monday to Friday with and optional Saturday Porting Workshop Wed-Friday TCP/IP Banquet Thursday and Friday - Four Seats left Warm Regards, Sue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:16:06 +0930 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: OSU update: soyMAIL v1.3 is now available Message-ID: <130j0qcktpum71f@corp.supernews.com> genius@marblecliff.com wrote: > On Mar 27, 6:20 am, Mark Daniel wrote: > >>Mark Daniel wrote: >> >>>soyMAIL v1.3 is now available from the WASD download page >> >>> http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/ >> >>>This version provides a list of general refinements along with a small >>>number of significant changes: >> >>> o autogenous authentication (allowing a distinct >>> login-usage-logout life-cycle) >>> o improved multiple mail file management >>> o composition 'delete all attachments when sent' checkbox >>> o automatic and transparent 'sent items' folder >>> o multiple 'draft items' management and folder >> >>>Full release notes: >> >>> http://wasd.vsm.com.au/soymail/-/release_notes.txt >> >>>Enjoy! >> >>OSU sites that downloaded the v1.3.1 kit and wish to >>experiment/implement soyMAIL's autogenous authentication should obtain >>the v1.3.2 kit from the above download URL. The v1.3.1 release was >>hopelessly broken for OSU. It was tested against Apache and WASD (even >>Purveyor before *the* problem be came obvious) but I cannot recall it >>being test-benched against OSU (unlike the other functionality). Must >>have been a senior moment. Thanks to Christoph Gartmann for being the >>poor first illegitimate child to try it. >> >>-- >>Odium theologicum ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odium_theologicum- Hide quoted text - >> >>- Show quoted text - > > > and it should still run under purveyor ... you said we are the > only one running it I referred to a NZ site that was evaluating soyMAIL using Purveyor. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/dafbde8d853c2b1d They reported some page formatting and layout problems along with the odd behaviour of some attachments (see reference to your own below). These have subsequently been resolved by them moving away from Purveyor. > and we are not having any problems Do you mean apart from what you have already reported? http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/259e7e4eb94aa333 > with the way we are using it, so to "write out" purveyor > sounds like an excuse not to support us ... soyMAIL no longer runs under Purveyor because Purveyor corrupts it's overall behaviour - pure and simple. I've had two sites make unsolicited reports around that now. You have not been able to demonstrate that this problem with Purveyor does not exist and not made available a workaround. Whereas I can and have provided you with a number of non-academic scenarios where your data is corrupted, in addition to your own reports. I don't believe I was supporting *you* Bob. I try to make my applications run on *VMS*, not platform such-and-such. I was prepared to have soyMAIL run under Purveyor provided I didn't have to invest too much time and effort in such a small user base (I do have a day job to also help fill in the idle hours, oh and an occasional night job as well) whereas I have ended spending considerable time and effort chasing this one down and in long and detailed interactions with yourself. Of course you can still make soyMAIL support Purveyor Bob. It's open source software. The changes are relatively minor. V1.2 can be taken as a template. Consider it an exercise in extending your skills-base and fattening your CV. Alternatively, let it out to contract. I'm sure you will find *someone* who is willing to take it on for suitable renumeration. This would also be in-line with your stated software policy. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/b9042b769860fb0c Just don't have them bring Purveyor's problems back to me. > which now puts you in the same company as Bill Gates I *wish* I was in the same company as Bill Gates :-) > and others who try to dictate to HP not to promote vms ... I believe I have done as much as most in this forum to support and make VMS available and usable, and find the comments ignorant and offensive. -- Odium theologicum ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odium_theologicum ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 17:47:00 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: OSU update: soyMAIL v1.3 is now available Message-ID: <1175042820.877765.268610@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 27, 5:04 pm, Doc wrote: > gen...@marblecliff.com wrote innews:1175012599.476470.65040@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com: > > > On Mar 27, 6:20 am, Mark Daniel wrote: > >> Mark Daniel wrote: > > > > > and it should still run under purveyor ... you said we are the > > only one running it and we are not having any problems > > with the way we are using it, so to "write out" purveyor > > sounds like an excuse not to support us ... which now puts > > you in the same company as Bill Gates and others who try > > to dictate to HP not to promote vms ... > > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/3d096dcabf9b0117 > > What I read was a perfectly reasonable issue to drop support. Purveyor > is broken in some circumstances and it'll break soyMAIL. You have seen a > notice from the Process website that this bug exists, it's time to move > to a more modern web server. WASD is free, stable, and fast. The > support available on the mailing list is excellent (if you remain civil). > It is - as you profess to prefer - an application written specifically > for OpenVMS. > > Take a closer look at the configuration of Deathrow for an idea of what > you can do with WASD. Hosting multiple domains and http/https is trivial > stuff. We've got users able to write their own CGI scripts and they run > under their username. One of our administrators even developed an > application to expose Notes on an authenticated web connection. > Apparently that wasn't too much of a problem with the interface to WASD. > > Don't just take the word of a Godless heathen, I'm sure if you ask you'll > find plenty of churchgoers who agree with me. ;-)~ > > Doc. wasd is like apache and osu and every other unix variant ... it is .CONF city ... purveyor on the other hand can be maintained by simply editing ONE single config file ... got it now ... Purveyor = written for vms + simplicity wasd,osu,apache = written for unix = convuluted ... ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 18:04:48 -0700 From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" Subject: Re: OT: Re: Phoenix electric cars Message-ID: <1175043888.749227.187910@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 27, 8:32 pm, Bill Todd wrote: > Island Computers, D B Turner wrote: : > Heaven forbid! But as someone not familiar with Phoenix, I found it > interesting anyway. Ditto. I want one! Now, but moving to CA just for that seems extreme. They indicate 100+ miles, up to 95 miles/hours, 10minute powercharge. The intent to offer 130 miles range, and then go to 250 miles. I'll settle for just under 100 miles, up to 70 miles/hour, 1 hour power charge. > Their Web site doesn't say what kind of battery technology they're using, 35kWh NanoSafe http://news.com.com/Revving+up+for+the+all-electric+SUV/2100-11389_3-6139703.html?tag=news.1 At the heart of these cars is a lithium-ion battery from Altair. Until recently, lithium batteries have been considered too unstable and volatile for use in cars. Put simply, lithium batteries can blow up and the bigger the battery, the larger the potential explosion. Altair says its NanoSafe battery throttles that problem because the anode--the component inside batteries that discharges electrons--is made from lithium titanate spinels, a particle made from two lithium atoms, three oxygens and a titanium atom. Conventional anodes are made from graphite. Graphite flakes can come loose and can react with the electrolyte, the liquid carrying the lithium particles, and start a thermal runaway reaction. By contrast, Altair's anode is inert. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:59:14 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: RSX-11M-Plus Pool questions Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Bob Gezelter wrote: > On Mar 27, 8:08 am, leder...@encompasserve.org (B. Z. Lederman) wrote: >>>> "Jeff Cameron" wrote in message >> >>>> news:C22DAB95.28536%roktsci@ca.rr.com... >> >> You do need to do a System Generation to change the amount of pool >> available. As a general rule, you should always set them to the >> maximum available: at least the primary pool should be there. >> > > WADU I disagree with the comment "you will need to do a SYSGEN". A > VMR $ perhaps, but without looking at the systems, a SYSGEN is not > indicated without additional information. You are both right. There are questions in SYSGEN which, if incorrectly answered, negatively impact the amount of primary pool available. Such as: Do you want Executive data space support Do you want support for task headers out-of-pool Changing these answers requires a SYSGEN. Of course if you answer Yes to the question about the Full-functionality Executive (as just about everybody does), then all of the problem questions are answered correctly for you. If Jeff is lucky, he can check his SYSGEN saved-answer files in [200,200] to see what was done in the last SYSGEN. Then all that is left is to make sure that the VMR gives the maximum amount of primary pool by a SET /POOL=* command. This has already been done on Jeff's system, as SET /POOL told him that top was already 1200 (the maximum). Secondary pool can be expanded anytime: at VMR, at boot, or interactively. At VMR time, you can SET /PAR=SECPOL:*:size:POOL At boot-time or interactively, you can LOAD/EXP=SEC/SIZE=size to increase the amount of secondary pool by "size" 64-byte blocks. I need to go back to Jeff's original post to find out what other questions he had. - Rob -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:58:03 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: RSX-11M-Plus Pool questions Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Mar 2007, Jeff Cameron wrote: > Since there is no comp.os.rsx group vmsnet.pdp-11 is a good choice. Also alt.sys.pdp11 > My next question is more involved, as it pertains to available pool > space in RSX. What version of RSX11M+? From your subsequent comments, I am guessing it is 4.3 or earlier. The current version is 4.6. Starting in version 4.5 (or maybe 4.4) they added more primary pool be releasing something after the boot was complete. On my freshly booted M+ V4.6 system, this gives me an extra 6000 bytes of pool. > I have read all the RSX documentation I can find relating to pool > space, and I am still confused about a few things. Read the "Memory Management" chapter in the _System Management Guide_ again. And again. Find OPA (Online Pool Analyzer) on some symposium tape. > The TCPWare documentation describes its pool usage very clearly, > however it uses the term "POOL" and "INPOOL" instead of "Primary > Pool" or "Secondary Pool". The TCPWare "POOL" requirements are 700 > to 1200 (no units specified). The TCPWare "INPOOL" usage is defined > as: =(4*n)+24 where "n" is the number of TCP connections and > the answer is in KBytes. > > Question 1 : Is "INPOOL" the same as "Primary Pool", "Secondary > Pool", or possibly something else? When they say POOL, they probably mean primary pool. INPOOL is not a term that I have every seen in the RSX documentation. I am guessing that it is a private pool created by TCPware. It will reduce the amount of memory available to other tasks. > POOL=1200:01150.:01538. According to the documentation, the results > shown are: POOL=:.: Where: = The first > location for user partitions (in bytes) = The longest free > block (in words) = The total pool space (in words) "total" is the total *free* space. The actual size of pool is from SYTOP to 120000 (your 1200 (above) (octal) x 100 (octal)). Find the value of SYTOP for your system in RSX11M.MAP (probably in [1,34] or [1,54]). OPA (Online Pool Analyzer) will display a map of your pool usage. > Based on the values shown from the SET /POOL command, I have 2300 > bytes (2.3 Kbytes) of free space Your free space is 1538 words = 3076 bytes. Your largest contiguous chunk of free pool is 1150 words = 2300 bytes. > which is more than an order of magnitude smaller than the TCPWare > requirements, which say that just one connection would require 28 > Kbytes. The total size of your primary pool would be less than twice this amount. This requirement *must* come from some resource other than primary pool. As I suggested before, I expect it to be a private pool that TCPware creates or else that you create for TCPware at VMR time. > Also, the RSX programmer here that originally programmed the system > says we ar at the maximum of pool space alowed. That appears to be the case. It may be possible to use less pool that you do now by not installing as many tasks simultaneously, or by not loading device drivers that are no longer needed, or .... OPA can give you hints here. > If so that would be 1538 from the "total" value above. If TCPWare > could take up 1200 of the 1538, then it would be a big pool hog. Remembering that 1538 is "what's left", not "what you started with". Some of the "700 to 1200" that TCPware wants will be permanent, for tasks and for devices. Some will be transient, for I/O and data packets. You want an idea of your dynamic pool usage. Use RMD (Resource Monitoring Display, documented in the _System Management Guide_) to see how your pool usage changes over time. RMD shows the current primary pool usage and "the worst it has been since you started RMD". If you find that pool is fairly stable, then you may be able to afford to permanently allocate "700 to 1200" to TCPware. If your free pool frequently strays below "700 free", then TCPware will cause problems with your system performance. Since your largest free chunk of primary pool is 1150, it is unlikely that you have ever had less than 1150 free. > What if INPOOL refers to secondary pool? ... > > Based on these values, if INPOOL refers to secondary pool, then I > might be able to accommodate up to 6 IP connections. You can also expand secondary pool, limited only by how much memory you want to allocate to it. See my other post, and see the "Memory Management" chapter of the _System Management Guide_. > Question 2 : In regards to primary pool, do I consider the > value as the total amount of free primary pool space, even though it > is listed as the "longest free block"? No (see above). Largest free block is a crude measure of how fragmented your primary pool is. Any request for primary pool will be for a contiguous block of pool. If your largest free block keeps getting smaller, that means that all of your other chunks of free pool are too small to be used for what ever is required. If your largest chunk remains constant, that means that requests for pool are being satisfied by smaller chunks of free pool. > One thing to note. I cannot enable the PMT (Pool Monitor Task), > because I would have to write up documentation as to how this would > impact the production system and go through a lengthy approval > cycle, since it is not currently part of the system. I am already > having enough problems attempting to write the "Change Requirements" > just to test the TCPWare. The documentation to justify PMT will probably be easier than that for TCPware. PMT uses less than 4000 bytes of main memory. It will allocate a TCB and a task header in primary pool, IE. one more active task. It will use a small amount of CPU time. If it needs to report a pool event, it will do some I/O, probably causing some transient primary pool usage. If things are really bad, it will freeze the system and tell you to fix a problem. If it didn't do that, it would be up to all of your applications to handle the low pool condition and hope for the best. Do you have a test system you can try this out on? > Question 3 : What is the basic difference between Primary and > Secondary pool? Based on the chapter 8 on Memory Management in the > RSX System Management guide, I surmise that Primary pool is for > internal RSX tables and data structures, and secondary pool is for > shared application memory and installed tasks. Is this a correct > assessment? Pretty much. Primary pool can be addressed more quickly. It is used for device and I/O data structures. There are still task data structures in primary pool, but some prototype task data structures are now in secondary pool. Send and Receive data packets (before the larger Variable Send and Receive data packets) used to be in primary pool, but I think all are now in secondary pool. Same with logical names. Shared application memory will be allocated elsewhere, but there are probably RSX control blocks associated with them in either primary or secondary pool. > Final Question : Does the RSX system Generation utility alow you to > increase Primary Pool and/or Secondary Pool? If so what are the > limits (maximum pool size) for each? The doumentation always shows > the MCR command >SET /POOL=1200 as setting the top value to 120000 > (octal). Is this the all-time maximum alowed in RSX? For primary pool 1200 is that all-time max. See my other post about SYSGEN. Likely your SYSGEN has made available the maximum amount of primary pool. Unless XDT is built in to the executive. You could re-SYSGEN to exclude XDT and gain some primary pool that way. Loadable XDT is still available and (in recent versions anyway) superior to resident XDT. The easy way to find out about the last SYSGEN is to check the saved answer files which might have been saved in [200,200]. You could probably also extract the information from RSXMC.MAC, but that would be harder. Check to see if tasks can be removed or device drivers unloaded. Consider upgrading RSX to the latest version. Secondary pool can be expanded at VMR time or boot time or interactively. See my other post. - Rob -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:23:34 -0700 From: Jeff Cameron Subject: RSX-11M-Plus Pool questions - Jeff's Response Message-ID: Thanks to all that have responded. I have included some of your suggestions here and respond to them: > First, hopefully, you know about RMD. Yes, I have been using it to monitor pool. > You don't say what kind of system you're running on... PDP-11/84 - RSX 11M=Plus V4.6 BL87. 2044K of main memory. I have 4 of these machines. Two production and two hot spares. All the same configuration. >Then all that is left is to make sure that the VMR gives the maximum >amount of primary pool by a SET /POOL=* command. My saved answer file shows SET /POOL=*, so we are set to the maximum >Read the "Memory Management" chapter in the _System Management Guide_ >again. And again. Up to 4 times so far. It is not as clear as I am used to with VMS documentation. It is certainly allot better than windows. > It may be possible to use less pool that you do now by not > installing as many tasks simultaneously, or by not > loading device drivers that are no longer needed, or .... When developing this system the original programmers had already done this. The system has several real-time tasks that communicate to single board computers over serial RS232 lines (each system has three DZ-11s with all ports used) there are about 8 constantly running tasks that communicate with one another using messaging and there is a fairly large use of common memory between all tasks. This is not an interactive user system, so no one is logged in except us administrators. It's a barebones RSX-11M-Plus. No HELP, No DCL, no NFT for network file transfer, no frills. > You can also expand secondary pool, limited only by how much memory > you want to allocate to it. This is not a problem, secondary pool is fine, and we have enough main memory to spare. > The documentation to justify PMT will probably be easier than that for > TCPWare. You would think so, but no. There is a specific business need for FTP to get the data files to SAN storage on the corporate LAN. Right now we are using a serial line to a PC and using Kermit. Not including our two spare systems. The main production system connected to the Factory floor transfers files to the other PDP-11/84 via mounting a shared RA92 disk, moving the files to it then dismounting. This is done when the factory floor shuts down three times a day during shift change and is initiated by the factory floor supervisor. When completed, the other PDP-11 mounts the disk, and moves the files to its local disks where the data is maintained for a week, for analysis, eventually to be archived on 9 track tape for archiving for 15 years of retention. It is this archiving aspect that we are trying to move to SAN storage. We had been hoping to archive automatically and directly from the factory controlling machine to SAN storage, but it looks like we will have to continue using the shared disk transfer method to the reporting and analysis machine then move to the SAN storage. (We have plenty of available pool and no performance impact restrictions on the reporting and analysis machine). > If you are worried about the impact that the TCP/IP software might have on > your RSX-11M+ systems then the cheapest answer might be to use a Linux box > running both TCP/IP and DECnet to act as an access point to your network. > An alternative might be to buy a cheap Alpha VMS system (e.g. DS10L) from > someone like Island Computers (http://www.islandco.com/) with DECnet and > TCP/IP to act as the bridge but this will cost a few > thousand dollars with the licenses. I already have a VMS VAX 4000 available (with limited disk space), and I am trying to get TCPWare for this too, but this would not solve my problem, as this machine has it's own legacy issues, and is owned by another group, to which I have no control, and changes there would also require government requalification. TCPWare is already qualified and would require a minimum of paperwork to add once the impact risk analysis is documented and tested. I even offered my two personal DS20 systems. Adding new hardware makes everyone here shudder at the paperwork, testing and qualification that is required. Epilogue: Thanks again to all of you for all of your input. I have learned a lot about RSX in the past few days. Overall I think my solution is to give up on putting TCPWare on my real-time factory system, and just focus on the reporting and analysis system. Jeff Cameron Sr. Paleocyberneticist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:15:33 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: How about 1. Prefixing the Subject line with OT: if not directly related to technical issues with VMS, or 2. Prefixing the Subject line with MG: if related to other issues with VMS, such as lack of sales, marketing or management 3. Prefixing the Subject line with COV if related to the NG itself 4. Updating Subject title as thread is transmogrified. On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:06:06 -0800, wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >> Mark Daniel wrote: >> >> .... >> >>> My regrets over sounding like a weasle-wording moralizer. >> >> No problem: those of us with differing opinions likely won't pay any >> more attention to yours than you seem to be paying to ours. >> >> But just in case you're able to accept a clue when offered one: the >> problem is simple - c.o.v. doesn't have nearly enough technical volume >> to keep large portions of its denizens interested. Most of us stick >> around not because there's anything significant going on here but just >> in case there might be (and those without great patience and/or optimism >> in this regard left long ago). >> >> So when something interesting even if off-topic comes along, it's >> entirely natural for such people (who formed a community long ago) to >> bat it around. If you don't like it, just ignore it - just as others of >> us manage to ignore areas that we don't find relevant (that, by the way, >> is also a form of discipline - I've never needed any help from killfiles >> or similar mechanisms to ignore subjects, or people, I found >> uninteresting). >> >> Or not. But don't expect your personal preferences to govern the >> conduct of others, or to be respected any more than you respect those of >> others. A lot of us have been around here for long enough that we're >> entirely comfortable making our own decisions about how to interact, >> thank you - and it's crystal-clear that a non-negligible portion of the >> populace (those threads you've got a hair across your ass about have >> *lots* of contributors) just plain don't agree with you and aren't in >> the least bothered by that. >> >> - bill > As much as I hate too, I must agree with Bill. While I mostly lurk in > COV, I do post on occasion and have now for about 15 years now. As > others have expressed, I have met many COV denizens in person and have > a community relationship that goes beyond VMS (but is still centered > around VMS). > > I often enjoy the off topic stuff. I would also suggest that much of > the OT stuff still has a VMS tilt that we would not have in another > group. When I am in a hurry, I mark as read threads that are not very > pertinent to me. When I have the time I read ever new post since the > last time I read. I just depends. > > There are many recurring topics that are on topic that have very > little importance to me (anything to do with DEC Windows), but I can > just skip it if I wish. I do not think that we need a split and I > think that a split would be a giant step backward for COV. It seems > like just a few years ago that the traffic in COV was so low that I > wondered if it would continue to exist. No such worry today. I > believe that part of the reason for the current volume IS the > community. > > If you must complain about OT replies and threads, just keep in mind > that your complaint about an OT post IS and OT post! I hope we > continue to have a VMS centered place to gather and chat, on and off > topic. > > As a side note, how can anything be off topic in a VMS forum, since > VMS is the OS on which God runs the Earth simulation. :) > > Thomas Wirt > Director of IS > Kittle's Home Furnishings > Indianapolis, IN > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:23:36 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <07032715233618_202002DA@antinode.org> From: "Tom Linden" > How about > 1. Prefixing the Subject line with OT: if not directly related to > technical issues with VMS, or > 2. Prefixing the Subject line with MG: if related to other issues > with VMS, such as lack of sales, marketing or management > 3. Prefixing the Subject line with COV if related to the NG itself > 4. Updating Subject title as thread is transmogrified. This is all fine, but none of it really helps the Info-VAX user much. Simply moving the inappropriate rubbish to a more appropriate forum sure would, though. I'll just hold my breath, then, shall I? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 13:34:59 -0700 From: twnews@kittles.com Subject: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <1175027699.709604.233730@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Tom Linden wrote: > How about > 1. Prefixing the Subject line with OT: if not directly related to > technical issues with VMS, or > 2. Prefixing the Subject line with MG: if related to other issues > with VMS, such as lack of sales, marketing or management > 3. Prefixing the Subject line with COV if related to the NG itself I would be happy to use the prefixes you listed. Please do note that this entire thread is OT from VMS tech discussion, but I agree that it belongs here. > 4. Updating Subject title as thread is transmogrified. > > > > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:06:06 -0800, wrote: > >> As much as I hate too, I must agree with Bill. While I mostly lurk in >> COV, I do post on occasion and have now for about 15 years now. As >> others have expressed, I have met many COV denizens in person and have >> a community relationship that goes beyond VMS (but is still centered >> around VMS). >> >> I often enjoy the off topic stuff. I would also suggest that much of >> the OT stuff still has a VMS tilt that we would not have in another >> group. When I am in a hurry, I mark as read threads that are not very >> pertinent to me. When I have the time I read ever new post since the >> last time I read. I just depends. >> >> There are many recurring topics that are on topic that have very >> little importance to me (anything to do with DEC Windows), but I can >> just skip it if I wish. I do not think that we need a split and I >> think that a split would be a giant step backward for COV. It seems >> like just a few years ago that the traffic in COV was so low that I >> wondered if it would continue to exist. No such worry today. I >> believe that part of the reason for the current volume IS the >> community. >> >> If you must complain about OT replies and threads, just keep in mind >> that your complaint about an OT post IS and OT post! I hope we >> continue to have a VMS centered place to gather and chat, on and off >> topic. >> >> As a side note, how can anything be off topic in a VMS forum, since >> VMS is the OS on which God runs the Earth simulation. :) >> >> Thomas Wirt >> Director of IS >> Kittle's Home Furnishings >> Indianapolis, IN >> > > > > --Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 16:26:10 -0700 From: "Doug Phillips" Subject: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <1175037969.967189.233750@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 27, 2:34 pm, twn...@kittles.com wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: > > How about > > 1. Prefixing the Subject line with OT: if not directly related to > > technical issues with VMS, or > > 2. Prefixing the Subject line with MG: if related to other issues > > with VMS, such as lack of sales, marketing or management > > 3. Prefixing the Subject line with COV if related to the NG itself > > I would be happy to use the prefixes you listed. Please do note that > this entire thread is OT from VMS tech discussion, but I agree that it > belongs here. > I can't imagine where else a discussion about a newsgroup would be more on topic than in that newsgroup. Prefixing would work if everyone did it. But, what are the chances of that happening? How about new people? We do want new people here, don't we? How would the newbies know "the rule" unless the lords of c.o.v. constantly whine about "proper prefixing", like they now constantly whine about OT posts? Yeah, how's that working out? If the vote is against subgroups, then the OT whiners must accept the fact that there will be chatter, lighten up and learn to ignore it or move on. If the vote is for subgroups, I don't see the need for more than two; something like: comp.os.vms technical comp.os.vms.community or c.o.v.pedants c.o.v.slackers or whatever... IRDGAS ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 16:44:48 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <1175039088.574156.117420@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 27, 3:23 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: "Tom Linden" > > > How about > > 1. Prefixing the Subject line with OT: if not directly related to > > technical issues with VMS, or > > 2. Prefixing the Subject line with MG: if related to other issues > > with VMS, such as lack of sales, marketing or management > > 3. Prefixing the Subject line with COV if related to the NG itself > > 4. Updating Subject title as thread is transmogrified. > > This is all fine, but none of it really helps the Info-VAX user much. > Simply moving the inappropriate rubbish to a more appropriate forum sure > would, though. I'll just hold my breath, then, shall I? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 Pardon my ignorance, please, but why is any using Info-VAX? Under what situation is that better than a newsreader? Are they situations where one can get Info-VAX but not news (other than the HP email device for grandparents who don't want a real computer!) And shall you what? (I'm not psychic or I just don't get the reference or joke or whatever it is.) I actually like some of the OT. It depends on the topic, of course. Usually the subject gives it away if it's OT, like "Gore brainwashing the world..." Does anyone mistake that for a VMS thread? But sure, maybe we should mark them OT (except that Google Groups seems to filter such markings out!). And I use Google Groups and it's been decades (1991-1993) since I used rn (I think it was called). The group is often pretty dull without OT, but I admit that entertainment is not its reason d'etre! The other thing great about OT is that to discuss it in its proper group usually isn't an option because you will likely end up in a NG with 99% morons, vandals, and such. (The precentage is much, much lower here!!!) And there certainly seems to be a lot of interest! Just some thoughts on the matter. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:58:25 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > How about > 1. Prefixing the Subject line with OT: if not directly related to > technical issues with VMS, or > 2. Prefixing the Subject line with MG: if related to other issues > with VMS, such as lack of sales, marketing or management > 3. Prefixing the Subject line with COV if related to the NG itself > 4. Updating Subject title as thread is transmogrified. Sounds like a good solution to me - there should be a hell of a lot less angst about any disagreements over prefixes than there seems to be over what should be allowed and what shouldn't, and if someone forgets to provide a pertinent title or insert an appropriate prefix responders can rectify that omission rather than bleat about it. This reminds me somewhat of the famous Supreme Court (?) observation about pornography: "I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it" - the problem, of course, being that everyone's opinion in that area differs. Even to the degree that people might be able to agree about what constitutes 'technical VMS content' there would be problems: for example, no one I know has any objection to Island Computers' postings here, but they aren't in the least technical in nature (even though they are often of significant interest to the community). (Are you breathlessly waiting for someone to ask what 'MG' stands for? I certainly don't know...) - bill ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 17:20:43 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <1175041243.471226.275830@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 27, 7:09 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > AEF wrote: > > Pardon my ignorance, please, but why is any using Info-VAX? Under what > > situation is that better than a newsreader? Are they situations where > > one can get Info-VAX but not news (other than the HP email device for > > grandparents who don't want a real computer!) > > Some ISP's only email not a NNTP server. > > You can pay extra for a NNTP service or you can use the web interface > at Google, but some may not find any of those attractive. > > Arne Well, I'd certainly take Google Groups over having all this stuff emailed to me! What's the advantage of getting it as mail? (OK, you can read it offline, but I thought those days are over, no?) AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:34:47 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:58:25 -0800, Bill Todd wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> How about >> 1. Prefixing the Subject line with OT: if not directly related to >> technical issues with VMS, or >> 2. Prefixing the Subject line with MG: if related to other issues >> with VMS, such as lack of sales, marketing or management >> 3. Prefixing the Subject line with COV if related to the NG itself >> 4. Updating Subject title as thread is transmogrified. > > Sounds like a good solution to me - there should be a hell of a lot less > angst about any disagreements over prefixes than there seems to be over > what should be allowed and what shouldn't, and if someone forgets to > provide a pertinent title or insert an appropriate prefix responders can > rectify that omission rather than bleat about it. > > This reminds me somewhat of the famous Supreme Court (?) observation > about pornography: "I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I > see it" - the problem, of course, being that everyone's opinion in that > area differs. Even to the degree that people might be able to agree > about what constitutes 'technical VMS content' there would be problems: > for example, no one I know has any objection to Island Computers' > postings here, but they aren't in the least technical in nature (even > though they are often of significant interest to the community). > > (Are you breathlessly waiting for someone to ask what 'MG' stands for? I > certainly don't know...) My God how they ****ed up, or ManGement, maybe BS would be better, but then our German friends would think it serious > > - bill -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 28 Mar 2007 01:26:19 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: So has any one thought about this? Message-ID: Sue wrote: > Well my friends in a moment of insanity I went and did a little bit of > research about Wiki's. > This is just me looking around wondering if anyone has looked at this > and what they think. Sue, I recently did the same thing. As a result I have "PmWiki" running on my VMS system, and have spent quite a bit of time trying to get "Media Wiki" running, but am having problems getting it to talk to MySQL. Jean-Francois Pieronne has a Python based one running as well. I'm very happy with "PmWiki", however, I have a strange problem with trying to upload attachments. They aren't inheriting the correct permissions. Mark Daniel's is running the "PmWiki" without this problem, so I'm not sure what is up. I've had PmWiki running on both 7.3-2 and now 8.3, it runs under WASD using PHP. I am totally hooked, I have the Wiki I'm using setup so that you have to have an account on my system to access it (using the access controls in WASD), and have been using it as a place to make notes, and keep track of things. Wiki's are definitely very useful. Just how open a Wiki is, is up to you. From what I am seeing, you can lock some down to the point that to most people it is just a standard website, not a Wiki. One thing to keep in mind is that there are literally dozens of different Wiki's, written in all kinds of languages. They have varying features, and unfortunatly the markup language doesn't seem to be that standardized. Zane ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 11:06:06 -0700 From: twnews@kittles.com Subject: Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <1175018766.466876.137860@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Bill Todd wrote: > Mark Daniel wrote: > > .... > >> My regrets over sounding like a weasle-wording moralizer. > > No problem: those of us with differing opinions likely won't pay any > more attention to yours than you seem to be paying to ours. > > But just in case you're able to accept a clue when offered one: the > problem is simple - c.o.v. doesn't have nearly enough technical volume > to keep large portions of its denizens interested. Most of us stick > around not because there's anything significant going on here but just > in case there might be (and those without great patience and/or optimism > in this regard left long ago). > > So when something interesting even if off-topic comes along, it's > entirely natural for such people (who formed a community long ago) to > bat it around. If you don't like it, just ignore it - just as others of > us manage to ignore areas that we don't find relevant (that, by the way, > is also a form of discipline - I've never needed any help from killfiles > or similar mechanisms to ignore subjects, or people, I found > uninteresting). > > Or not. But don't expect your personal preferences to govern the > conduct of others, or to be respected any more than you respect those of > others. A lot of us have been around here for long enough that we're > entirely comfortable making our own decisions about how to interact, > thank you - and it's crystal-clear that a non-negligible portion of the > populace (those threads you've got a hair across your ass about have > *lots* of contributors) just plain don't agree with you and aren't in > the least bothered by that. > > - bill As much as I hate too, I must agree with Bill. While I mostly lurk in COV, I do post on occasion and have now for about 15 years now. As others have expressed, I have met many COV denizens in person and have a community relationship that goes beyond VMS (but is still centered around VMS). I often enjoy the off topic stuff. I would also suggest that much of the OT stuff still has a VMS tilt that we would not have in another group. When I am in a hurry, I mark as read threads that are not very pertinent to me. When I have the time I read ever new post since the last time I read. I just depends. There are many recurring topics that are on topic that have very little importance to me (anything to do with DEC Windows), but I can just skip it if I wish. I do not think that we need a split and I think that a split would be a giant step backward for COV. It seems like just a few years ago that the traffic in COV was so low that I wondered if it would continue to exist. No such worry today. I believe that part of the reason for the current volume IS the community. If you must complain about OT replies and threads, just keep in mind that your complaint about an OT post IS and OT post! I hope we continue to have a VMS centered place to gather and chat, on and off topic. As a side note, how can anything be off topic in a VMS forum, since VMS is the OS on which God runs the Earth simulation. :) Thomas Wirt Director of IS Kittle's Home Furnishings Indianapolis, IN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:38:54 -0600 From: Jim Mehlhop Subject: Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <460964BE.2080601@mehlhop.org> Richard B. gilbert wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > >> Doug Phillips wrote: >> >>> Maybe we could find a "genius" to moderate that sng. >> >> >> >> >> Perhaps. but then moderators would have to be very busy to scan all >> posts. >> >> Ever so often some post gets out of hand and degenerates. But I would >> say that over the course of a year, the newsgroups has an overall >> focus on VMS. (and yes, a focus on VMS doesn't necessarily mean all is >> technical) >> >> With a shrinking VMS community, splitting VMS into multiple newsgroups >> risks lowering the content amount to a point where people don't bother >> with it. >> >> I specifically use the word "community" here because while those out >> of context threads may be annoying and difficult to resist, it does >> provide some insight on the people who participate here. > > > Some days the ON topic content approaches insignificance! Amen to that! > -- Jim Mehlhop Join Cauce to outlaw spam http://www.cauce.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:39:37 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <56tak0F2adcl9U1@mid.individual.net> On 2007-03-27 03:50, "David J Dachtera" wrote: > genius@marblecliff.com wrote: >> [snip] > > Y'know Bob, it didn't take me three minutes to discover that marblecliff.com was > registered by - you guessed it - someone at InstantWhip! The nameserver is "NS.MARBLECLIFF.COM" (IP address 68.143.206.2). And the NNTP-Posting-Host header (IP address 68.143.206.9) is quite the same for "bob" and "genius" ... Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:12:14 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <07032715121397_202002DA@antinode.org> From: genius@marblecliff.com > so you want to be able to say what you want to and no one > else should be able to challenge you ... sounds just like > liberals, nazis, elitists, or alot of other people today who > say they are for debate, but just do not debate what I say ... No, imbicile. Any time you'd like to argue about how "zip -V" should work, for example, I'd be _happy_ to do it right here. By the way, when did "a lot" become one word? > I got an idea ... why don't you by your own alpha and > start your own vms site, and post to yourself ... then > you will not have to deal with being challenged ... Gee, idiot, I already spend a lot of time by my own Alpha(s). Or did you mean "buy"? The only thing challenging about reading your stuff is keeping a striaght face while doing it. > but this group cannot be civil ... they call out conservatives and > Christians with their constant cracks, then they get rebutted and > resort to name calling and CENSORSHIP ... No, moron, not conservatives, just morons. You really should get a life. A word to the wise: Some life forms diminish in activity when they're not fed. Oops. Wrong audience. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:44:18 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <07032717441827_202002DA@antinode.org> From: sms@antinode-org (Steven M. Schweda) > [...] The only thing challenging about reading your stuff is > keeping a striaght face while doing it. Please note that when _I_ make a spelling error, it's typographical. Wnen others do it, its cause is, of course, stupidity. (Sigh. But you'll notice that I can at least handle "its" and "it's", which gives me a leg up on a lot of folks. Perhaps even on several lots of folks. I'll just go away now.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 16:51:48 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <1175039508.183132.161340@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 27, 5:44 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: sms@antinode-org (Steven M. Schweda) > > > [...] The only thing challenging about reading your stuff is > > keeping a striaght face while doing it. > > Please note that when _I_ make a spelling error, it's typographical. > Wnen others do it, its cause is, of course, stupidity. (Sigh. But > you'll notice that I can at least handle "its" and "it's", which gives > me a leg up on a lot of folks. Perhaps even on several lots of folks. > I'll just go away now.) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 Oh, come now. It's easy to make the homonym mistake. Also, Bob's "by" could easily have been an attempt at "buy" but not hitting the "u" hard enough. Some people are slightly dyslexic (now I have to look that up to be sure I've spelled it right for you!) People who think in sounds are more likely to make such errors. How much time do we have to spend proofreading our posts??? I agree with you that people should be more careful (esp. the very common error of typing "loose" when it should be "lose"), but I think you overdo it slightly. AEF ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 2007 10:47:59 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Message-ID: <1175017679.774361.265880@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 27, 1:07 pm, "Richard B. gilbert" wrote: > AEF wrote: > > On Mar 27, 12:04 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > >>Bob Koehler wrote: > > >>> The operations staff does the backups. There's no sensitive data, > >>> so readall is appropriate. > > >>But doesn't the operator need write privilege if the backup has a /RECORD > >>qualifier in it ? or is that a special case for VMS security that allows the > >>backup recoding date to be modified without write access to the file ? > > > No, yes: > > >>From the online security manual: > > > READALL Privilege (Objects) > > > The READALL privilege lets the process bypass existing restrictions > > that would otherwise prevent the process from reading an object. > > However, unlike the BYPASS privilege, which permits writing and > > deleting, READALL permits only the reading of objects and allows > > updating of such backup-related file characteristics as the backup > > date. See the HP OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual > > and the HP OpenVMS System Manager's Manual for a discussion of backup > > operations. > > > READALL is intended to be an adequate privilege for backing up > > volumes, so grant this privilege to operators so they can perform > > system backups. > > I think it is better practice to use a special BACKUP account and to > submit backups as batch jobs. The operators should only mount tapes as > needed. Backup needs privileges which the account takes care of. For > best performance, backup needs some large quotas and limits which the > special account also takes care of.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I think each site should do what's best for its particular situation. What's appropriate for one site could be costly overkill at another. I do, however, like the idea of a separate BACKUP account so you can give it those special quotas to improve its performance (though they don't seem to help much in my particular situation, and I find upping WSQUOTA actually worsens performance a little. For some reason, 1024 works best on my systems.) AEF ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.173 ************************