INFO-VAX Tue, 10 Apr 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 197 Contents: Re: CSWB on EV4 (21064) Re: MicroVAX II chiller theatre Re: MicroVAX II chiller theatre Re: MicroVAX II chiller theatre Re: MicroVAX II chiller theatre Re: OPCOM and TCPIP Services Re: OPCOM and TCPIP Services Re: OPCOM and TCPIP Services Re: OT: Global Warming Re: OT: Global Warming Re: OT: Global Warming Re: OT: Global Warming Re: OT: Global Warming Re: script to FTP file Re: script to FTP file Re: X25 packet tracing in VMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 9 Apr 2007 13:23:47 -0700 From: "Rich Jordan" Subject: Re: CSWB on EV4 (21064) Message-ID: <1176150227.749201.323560@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Apr 9, 2:02 pm, p...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: > In article , hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > >The console mentions a 4D60T. > > Which alas is not supported by VMS and has to be replaced (by eg. 3D30) > > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER > Network and OpenVMS system specialist > E-mail p...@langstoeger.at > A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist What Peter said. The best card for these systems is a 24-bit PowerStorm 4D20; next is the 3D30, which is an 8 bit card but very fast. Both have held their value on Ebay and the like, so if you're on a tight budget look for a 4D10T Elsa GLoria. As I mentioned its slower, and if you run at 1280x1024x24bpp you'll get some screen artifacts, but it is quite usable. Don't even try a Powerstorm 300/350; they won't work on EV5x and older systems. More memory would be my second purchase after getting a working card. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:04:27 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: MicroVAX II chiller theatre Message-ID: <1176170750_419@sp12lax.superfeed.net> Curtis Rempel wrote: > Hi, > > I've inherited an MVII 630QY-A2 and need to determine if there is anything > worth keeping on the RD53. I suspect it is somewhere in the VMS 4.x > vintage. Not that difficult, except for the fact that it was in an unknown > state upon arrival - there may have been one or more Q-bus cards removed > and the cables from the disk and tape were disconnected as were the back > panel cables. > > So far, I've been able to reconnect the back panel ribbon cables and get a > console to show up via a BCC008 serial cable to a VT terminal. > > Here is the output from power on: > > KA630-A.V1.2 > > Performing normal system tests. > > 7..6..5..4..3.. > > Tests completed. > > > Loading system software. > > 2.. > ?4C DEVINACT, DUB0 > ?06 HLT INST > PC = 00000E0A > Failure. > > That tells me that all is well with the regular tests but that it can't even > get the primary bootstrap from DUB0 since it is "not there" for some > reason. It does have power and spins up though. > > I started with the basics by reseating the cards/cables but this produced > the same result. > > After removing the front top service panel, I discovered that the disk/tape > cables were disconnected. Identifying the TQK50 cable was easy enough, > however, the RD53 has two cables, narrow and wide. There are connectors > across from the disk and tape drives labelled: > > "J1 Fixed Disk 1" - wide > "J7 Fixed Disk 0" - wide > "J2 Fixed Disk 0" - narrow > "J5 Fixed Disk 1" - narrow (to the far right) > > Wide cable p/n: 17-00286-00 > Narrow cable p/n: 17-00282-00 > > Does the RD53 need the wide, narrow, or both? The only possible connectors > that could be used are J1, J2, and J7 since J5 is too far for the narrow > cable. It needs both cables: wide to J1, narrow to J2. The wide cable is the control cable, the narrow is the data in/out cable. Note that pin 1 wire on IDC connectors (that plug into J1 and J2) needs to go the pin 1 edge fingers of the respective wide and narrow size. What I'm saying is that it is possible to push the cable sockets onto the edge fingers upside down. (The sockets are supposed to have a polarity key but sometimes the key drops out or the cables you have may never have had one. If you look at the wide edge fingers on the RD53 circuit board you will see a slot cut between 2 contacts. That's the index slot the key in the cable socket is supposed to use. > > I've tried various combinations (narrow, wide, narrow and wide, using the > other wide connector in these combinations) but the result is still the > same. > > Then, after much Googling, I've discovered that this might be a Q-bus > configuration issue and that such configuration issues can be difficult > (especially if you don't really know much about it). I suspect that > perhaps a card (or more) has been removed. From my Google travels, it > would seem that empty Q-bus slots cause havoc and this might be the problem > or at least part of the problem. > > I made some notes on the slot assignments and identified them using > http://www.ibiblio.org//pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/field-guide.txt > > Slot: Description > > 1: M7606-AF: KA630 with 1 MB memory > 2: NS630: Nat Semi memory (unknown size) > 3: NS638: Nat Semi memory 8 MB > 4: empty > 5: M7504 and M7546: DEQNA-AA and TQK50-AA > 6: M8639: RQDX1 > 7: empty > 8: empty > > Does an empty slot 4 in the above config raise a red flag? If "holes" in > the bus are "a bad thing", then it would make sense that the disk > controller in slot 6 is hooped as a result and giving me the DEVINACT > error. The RQDX1 controller must be the last module (highest socket number) installed in the backplane as it does not pass interrupt enable signals to succeeding modules. In the layout above, the missing module in socket 4 *is* a problem. The QBUS requires module to module connectivity in the backplane as 2 QBUS signals are daisy-chained down the bus from the CPU in socket one through each module to the last installed module. You can do a couple of things: 1) move the 3 cards in slots 5 and 6 up one slot so that the DEQNA and TQK50 are in slots 4 left and 4 right. The RQDX! will then be in slot 5. 2) leave the TQK50 and DEQNA out and just move the RQDX1 to slot 4. > > Due to the limited console commands on this processor, there is > unfortunately nothing like "SHOW DEVICE" etc. The is however the (E)xamine command which will allow you to 'look' at QBUS addresses. 8-) 8-) > > Am I getting closer in resolving this? Would this be as simple as shifting > slots 5 and 6 up one or is there more to it than that? I'd like to get > some pointers before I do just that in case it might be catastrophic. The DEVINACT, DUB0 message reported during a boot attempt indicates that your RQDX1 is strapped to respond to the 2nd MSCP controller address rather than the 1st: 172150 (octal.) Your RQDX1 may be an RQDX2. Look for the letters "YB" on the right side module spacer post on the module extraction bar. "YA" indicates RQDX1. The module number is the same - M8639 - for both controllers. The reason I think you may have an RQDX2 is that I don't think the RQDX1 supported the RD53. The RQDX2 did with an updated set of PROMS. > > > Thanks > Curtis > HTH, Jeff ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:12:43 GMT From: Curtis Rempel Subject: Re: MicroVAX II chiller theatre Message-ID: <%8ESh.18269$hO2.12183@edtnps82> Jeff Campbell wrote: > Curtis Rempel wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I've inherited an MVII 630QY-A2 and need to determine if there is >> anything >> worth keeping on the RD53. I suspect it is somewhere in the VMS 4.x >> vintage. Not that difficult, except for the fact that it was in an >> unknown state upon arrival - there may have been one or more Q-bus cards >> removed and the cables from the disk and tape were disconnected as were >> the back panel cables. >> >> So far, I've been able to reconnect the back panel ribbon cables and get >> a console to show up via a BCC008 serial cable to a VT terminal. >> >> Here is the output from power on: >> >> KA630-A.V1.2 >> >> Performing normal system tests. >> >> 7..6..5..4..3.. >> >> Tests completed. >> >> >> Loading system software. >> >> 2.. >> ?4C DEVINACT, DUB0 >> ?06 HLT INST >> PC = 00000E0A >> Failure. >> >> That tells me that all is well with the regular tests but that it can't >> even get the primary bootstrap from DUB0 since it is "not there" for some >> reason. It does have power and spins up though. >> >> I started with the basics by reseating the cards/cables but this produced >> the same result. >> >> After removing the front top service panel, I discovered that the >> disk/tape >> cables were disconnected. Identifying the TQK50 cable was easy enough, >> however, the RD53 has two cables, narrow and wide. There are connectors >> across from the disk and tape drives labelled: >> >> "J1 Fixed Disk 1" - wide >> "J7 Fixed Disk 0" - wide >> "J2 Fixed Disk 0" - narrow >> "J5 Fixed Disk 1" - narrow (to the far right) >> >> Wide cable p/n: 17-00286-00 >> Narrow cable p/n: 17-00282-00 >> >> Does the RD53 need the wide, narrow, or both? The only possible >> connectors that could be used are J1, J2, and J7 since J5 is too far for >> the narrow cable. > > It needs both cables: wide to J1, narrow to J2. The wide cable is the > control cable, the narrow is the data in/out cable. Do you mean J7 and J2 instead as they are both "Fixed Disk 0" ? J1 and J2 are different fixed disks aren't they? > > Note that pin 1 wire on IDC connectors (that plug into J1 and J2) > needs to go the pin 1 edge fingers of the respective wide and narrow > size. What I'm saying is that it is possible to push the cable sockets > onto the edge fingers upside down. (The sockets are supposed to have a > polarity key but sometimes the key drops out or the cables you have > may never have had one. If you look at the wide edge fingers on the > RD53 circuit board you will see a slot cut between 2 contacts. That's > the index slot the key in the cable socket is supposed to use. > >> >> I've tried various combinations (narrow, wide, narrow and wide, using the >> other wide connector in these combinations) but the result is still the >> same. >> >> Then, after much Googling, I've discovered that this might be a Q-bus >> configuration issue and that such configuration issues can be difficult >> (especially if you don't really know much about it). I suspect that >> perhaps a card (or more) has been removed. From my Google travels, it >> would seem that empty Q-bus slots cause havoc and this might be the >> problem or at least part of the problem. >> >> I made some notes on the slot assignments and identified them using >> http://www.ibiblio.org//pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/field-guide.txt >> >> Slot: Description >> >> 1: M7606-AF: KA630 with 1 MB memory >> 2: NS630: Nat Semi memory (unknown size) >> 3: NS638: Nat Semi memory 8 MB >> 4: empty >> 5: M7504 and M7546: DEQNA-AA and TQK50-AA >> 6: M8639: RQDX1 >> 7: empty >> 8: empty >> >> Does an empty slot 4 in the above config raise a red flag? If "holes" in >> the bus are "a bad thing", then it would make sense that the disk >> controller in slot 6 is hooped as a result and giving me the DEVINACT >> error. > > The RQDX1 controller must be the last module (highest socket number) > installed in the backplane as it does not pass interrupt enable signals > to succeeding modules. > > In the layout above, the missing module in socket 4 *is* a problem. The > QBUS requires module to module connectivity in the backplane as 2 QBUS > signals are daisy-chained down the bus from the CPU in socket one > through each module to the last installed module. > > You can do a couple of things: > > 1) move the 3 cards in slots 5 and 6 up > one slot so that the DEQNA and TQK50 are in slots 4 left > and 4 right. The RQDX! will then be in slot 5. > > 2) leave the TQK50 and DEQNA out and just move the RQDX1 to slot 4. > OK, I tried both of the above options and both produced the same result: KA630-A.V1.2 Performing normal system tests. 7..6..5..4..3.. Tests completed. Loading system software. 2.. ?40 NOSUCHDEV ?06 HLT INST PC = 00000E0A Failure. >>> I also tried changing the RQDX jumpers W1-W11 (A2-A12) from W1, W2, W3, W5, W6 factory default: W2, W4, W5, W9, W11 with the same result above. >> >> Due to the limited console commands on this processor, there is >> unfortunately nothing like "SHOW DEVICE" etc. > > The is however the (E)xamine command which will allow you to 'look' at > QBUS addresses. 8-) 8-) Apparently I need to do some more reading :-) > >> >> Am I getting closer in resolving this? Would this be as simple as >> shifting >> slots 5 and 6 up one or is there more to it than that? I'd like to get >> some pointers before I do just that in case it might be catastrophic. > > The DEVINACT, DUB0 message reported during a boot attempt indicates > that your RQDX1 is strapped to respond to the 2nd MSCP controller > address rather than the 1st: 172150 (octal.) > > Your RQDX1 may be an RQDX2. Look for the letters "YB" on the right side > module spacer post on the module extraction bar. "YA" indicates RQDX1. > The module number is the same - M8639 - for both controllers. The reason > I think you may have an RQDX2 is that I don't think the RQDX1 supported > the RD53. The RQDX2 did with an updated set of PROMS. Yes, you are correct, it is indeed an RQDX2. > >> >> >> Thanks >> Curtis >> > > HTH, > > Jeff > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet > News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy > via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 01:07:06 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: MicroVAX II chiller theatre Message-ID: Curtis Rempel wrote: > I've inherited an MVII Congratulations ! I have a few links at http://www.vaxination.ca/vms under the microvax heading. > ?4C DEVINACT, DUB0 > ?06 HLT INST > PC = 00000E0A > Failure. For RD drives, the controller is an RQDX3 module number M7555 With the components side facing you, and the connectors on the left: from left to right: W23 4 3 2 1 W12 W13 W14 W15 W16 W17 and finally one large array with W01 on top and W11 on bottom. For factory CSR setting, a single RQDX3:. W11 to W1 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 W11 = A12, W1 = A2 The above setting represents a CSR of 17772150 15 14 13 12 11 10 09 08 07 06 05 04 03 02 01 00 x x x 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 x x Bits 0 and 1 are set to 0 Bits 14 and 13 are set to 1 If you split the above bits in groups of 3 (octal), you then get: 14-13-12 = 7 11-10-09 = 2 08-07-06 = 1 05-04-03 = 5 02-01-00 = 0 You add 177 in front of it and you get 17772150 the CSR for the unit. The second RQDX3 controller (which would map to DUB0) would have had the following : W11 W1 17760334 ---> x x x 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 x x (1 = jumper is present, 0 = jumper is absent) The RQDX3 supports only one bus (max 2 devices) . You can boost this to 4 drives by adding the RQDXE expander module (module M7513) which allows you to connect to 2 BA23 disk buses. If you have an RQDXE, then the main cable from RQDX3 plugs into the J2 of RQDXE. Then, J3 goes to the bottom Ba23, J1 goes to top BA23. 50 pin signal cable plugs into the ribbon connector that is under the J6 connector. This feeds the other fix connectors on the backpane. (you may need to remopve a small metal plate under J6 to see that connector) The RD53 drive has 2 connector cables. You would plug the 2 cables into their respective ones for Fixed Disk 0. (the connectors are of different size). On the RD53: There are jumbers that determine if it is disk 0 of disk 1 on the shelf. To install on the left shelf (disk 0), you need DS3 to 1, DS1m DS2, DS4 set to 0. These jumbers and on the underside of the drive near the connectors in the back. > reason. It does have power and spins up though. The drive is powered directly from the power supply (separate cable, standard connector). But if the config is not done properly, the disk may not respond properly to the controller, or the controller may not be configured properly. If you only have one RQDX3, it should show your disk as DUA0 . BTW, once you can boot, you can go into SYSGEN, and use "CONFIGURE". It will then prompt you for the boards you have installed and once you are done, will produce a list of CSRs and interrupt vectors needed so that there is no conflict on the QBUS. If you can post the list of boards you have, then we could use configure to get that list to you. > Does the RD53 need the wide, narrow, or both? Both. The narrow cable goes to the control panel with the write protect button as well as disk activity lights. The wide cable goes to the controller. In terms of Q=BUS board location, you want to access the FAQ or Ask The Wizzard and search for "Serpentine". It will describe the QBus design. First 3 slots are special (CPU, Memory, Memory). If you do not have 2 memory boards, you need the grant continuity card M9047, otherwise the bus sees the hardware equivalent of an "end of file" and doesn't scan the slots below. slots 4 to 8 are split in 2. the A-B and C-D sides. If all your modules are half width (like RQDX3), you would fill them as: 4 AB, 4CD, 5AB, 5CD etc. If you have a double width board, and the previous slot is not filled with 2 boards, then you need to insert a grant continbuity on the CD side. > Slot: Description > > 1: M7606-AF: KA630 with 1 MB memory > 2: NS630: Nat Semi memory (unknown size) > 3: NS638: Nat Semi memory 8 MB > 4: empty > 5: M7504 and M7546: DEQNA-AA and TQK50-AA > 6: M8639: RQDX1 > 7: empty > 8: empty Slot 4AB and 4CD being empty, you have 2 "end of files". You would either insert 2 grant continuity cards, or move slots5 and 6 up one slot. > Due to the limited console commands on this processor, there is > unfortunately nothing like "SHOW DEVICE" etc. You need to boot diagnostics from a TK50 which takes about half an hour :-( Your DEQNA is ethernet, and while old, should still allow you to boot as a satellite and get you to SYSGEN where you can get a list of devices. You can still get AUI to RJ45 ethernet converters from black box for cheap. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 23:32:19 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: MicroVAX II chiller theatre Message-ID: <07040923321959_202002DA@antinode.org> From: Curtis Rempel Even _my_ junk tends to be newer than this, but ... > OK, I tried both of the above options and both produced the same result: So, you claim that you have no gaps in the Q-bus now? The recommended card sequence puts the busiest/stupidest ones closest to the CPU and memory, so ideally (according to the book), you'd have something like: 1: M7606-AF: KA630 with 1 MB memory 2: NS630: Nat Semi memory (unknown size) 3: NS638: Nat Semi memory 8 MB 4: M7504: DEQNA-AA (AB half) and M7546: TQK50-AA (CD half) 5: M8639: RQDX2 6: empty 7: empty 8: empty The order of the two dual-height cards in slot 4 is probably not critical. For the actual bus continuity sequence, see: http://antinode.org/dec/qbus_serpentine.html > 2.. > ?40 NOSUCHDEV "No bootable devices found". > I also tried changing the RQDX jumpers W1-W11 (A2-A12) from > W1, W2, W3, W5, W6 > factory default: > W2, W4, W5, W9, W11 > with the same result above. If the RQDX2 is the only disk adapter, then it should be jumpered according to the default configuration. My book says that the default address bits are 17772150, so the jumpers should be: A12 A11 A10 A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 which sounds like your "W2, W4, W5, W9, W11", if the labels are right. (My picture shows A12 closest to the center notch, and "1" = jumper installed.) All the LUN jumpers (by the handle) should be out. If I still have an RQDX2 anywhere, it's very well hidden, but the book seems to show things labeled W1, W2, W3, and W4 (premanently?) installed, and they're not the A12-A2 jumpers. (W2 and W1 are close to A12. W3 and W4 are near the middle of the card.) What are the Drive Select jumper settings on the RD drive(s)? I'd guess DS3 for Drive 0, but no bets. As I recall, in a BA23 box, the second drive was different (4?), but no bets on that, either. Can we assume that the RQDX2 has a cable connecting it to the fanout stuff in the BA23 chassis? Your DEQNA is approximately garbage, however, since about VMS V5.5. (A fair argument could be made that it always was, from what I've read.) http://antinode.org/dec/deqna_settings.html >> Due to the limited console commands on this processor, there is >> unfortunately nothing like "SHOW DEVICE" etc. Which is also why it always does a "sniffer boot", looking for the first (working) device, instead of remembering a default boot device. Note that a dead RD53 can cause about as much trouble as a misconfigured RQDXx adapter, and a dead RD53 is not a rarity nowadays. The RQDX3, by the way, is a dual-height card, not a quad-height card like the RXDX2. (You need an RQDX3 to use an RD54 drive instead of an RD53 (or lamer).) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:50:02 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: OPCOM and TCPIP Services Message-ID: "Peter Weaver" wrote in news:1176138135.063566.270280@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: [..snip..] > But when I find someone attacking my system with FTP I just let them > carry on since they are not ever going to find a password that would > let them log into an "Administrato" account on my system :) Usually > they give up after 2,833 attempts. On February 14th I had someone try > 40,084 attempts to log into Administrato before I blocked the IP since > I figured the report I would fire off to the ISP would be too large if > I let the idiot carry on much longer. Anyone know what the 2,833 most > popular passwords for Adminsitrator actually are? It would be interesting to capture the passwords used in all those attempts, eliminate duplicates (if necessary), and add them all to the password dictionary. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:25:36 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OPCOM and TCPIP Services Message-ID: <10de0$461a9358$cef8887a$29873@TEKSAVVY.COM> Peter Weaver wrote: > ping 1026966587 Thanks for the tip. This is neat. > But when I find someone attacking my system with FTP I just let them > carry on since they are not ever going to find a password that would > let them log into an "Administrato" account on my system :) I do not know if they are trying to log in to Administrator or Administrato. I just know OPCOM reports "Administrato" and don't trust it to return the full length of their specified username. (another flaw in OPCOM). And I want to block them as soon as possible because the constant bells on the console are annoying and it pollutes my operator.log with too many useless messages. Also, those constant attempts do take a lot of system resources. These attempts would grind a Vaxstation 3100-30 to a halt. (to a point where opening a window to telnet to the router would take forever). On an alpha, it isn't as bad, of course. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Apr 2007 13:18:25 -0700 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: Re: OPCOM and TCPIP Services Message-ID: <1176149905.104173.102990@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Apr 9, 3:25 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >... > I do not know if they are trying to log in to Administrator or Administrato. I > just know OPCOM reports "Administrato" and don't trust it to return the full > length of their specified username. (another flaw in OPCOM). OPCOM, the FTP Server Log and the Security Audit all say Administrato but you know the program they are running is sending Administrator. When I create the report to send to the ISP I always do a global S/ Administrato /Administrator/%WH. > And I want to block them as soon as possible because the constant bells on the > console are annoying and it pollutes my operator.log with too many useless messages. I turned off the bells on my systems using TTY_AUTOCHAR since the bell sounds bothered our birds. > Also, those constant attempts do take a lot of system resources. These attempts > would grind a Vaxstation 3100-30 to a halt. (to a point where opening a window > to telnet to the router would take forever). On an alpha, it isn't as bad, of > course. I did have someone try over 200,000 attempts to log into POP a few weeks back early in the morning. That caused the system to run out of memory and I had to kill processes using AMDS since I could not even log in. The worst part was that OPCOM only told the username that they tried. I could not find any record of the IP address that the attack came from to report it to the ISP. -- www.weaverconsulting.ca CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial Hardware ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:36:56 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: OT: Global Warming Message-ID: <461ab361$0$16318$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "roger" wrote in message news:1176133122.174855.127930@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > Please take this discussions somewhere else. Global warming may not > be as bad as scientists think, because the world may have far less > fossil fuels (including oil) than previously reported. Do the > research. The global warming predictions assume business as usual, > which will not be the case if the world as already peaked in global > oil production. There are many newsgroups and sites devoted to theses > topics so please don't fill up comp.os.vms with this. Watch > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaKaH2UTsNE or read www.theoildurm.com > Also don't forget to "Ask Dr. Bartlett what time it is"... > Umm, it's a lot more complicated than taking your foot off the gas (pun intended). Greenhouse gases, like CO2, stay in the atmosphere for many years after they are released but the overall temperature increase triggers releases of other greenhouse gases like methane (from thawing permafrost) and methane hydrate (which boils to the ocean's surface as the water temperature rises). And let's not forget about the big albedo change when ice melts into water. Ice reflects 90% of sun light while water absorbs 90%. This will have the same effect as throwing a switch. And finally, I wasn't aware of any peer-reviewed scientific material on You-Tube. That stuff is no higher than locker-room quality. NSR -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:02:40 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: OT: Global Warming Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: ... > Could this posting from someone at MSN.COM possibly be from Dick Cheney > or Karl Rove ? (the poor spelling and grammar could be from George W. > but I don't think he knows anything about Usenet) Similar comment to the one I just posted in response to your previous babble: you *really* ought to make it more of a habit to take the time to understand what someone is saying before jumping so publicly to erroneous conclusions about it. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 20:40:03 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: OT: Global Warming Message-ID: <461ad03d$0$16313$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Bill Todd" wrote in message news:ofSdnUjPNba8SYfbnZ2dnUVZ_u3inZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com... > Neil Rieck wrote: [...snip...] > >> Could this posting from someone at MSN.COM possibly be from Dick Cheney >> or Karl Rove ? (the poor spelling and grammar could be from George W. but >> I don't think he knows anything about Usenet) > > Similar comment to the one I just posted in response to your previous > babble: you *really* ought to make it more of a habit to take the time to > understand what someone is saying before jumping so publicly to erroneous > conclusions about it. > You are correct. I over reacted. I'm still fuming about a Sunday morning preview I watched on NOW (PBS) about an SEC employee turned whistle-blower who claims he was pulled off an investigation involving friends of the Bush family. Even so, that is no excuse for loosing my cool. Now I have watched the first video cited and it does appear to be produced by reputable people from academia. I am familiar with this topic and wish that government economists who expect economic growth every year new about this. (however, right now I am still wondering how this will relate to the secondary and tertiary effects of CO2-stimulated global warming) I once heard a lecture by David Suzuki who compared human expectations for growth to that of bacteria growing in a test tube (finite resources). So the bacteria doubled in quantity every 72 hours and then stopped when the test tube was half full. Some of the bacteria thought "gee, it looks like we will soon be out of resources" while some other bacteria countered "what are you talking about, we've got plenty of resources to continue doing what we've always done". This metaphor was just something for the audience to think about. I'll watch the other You-Tube videos and get back to you (all). NSR -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 20:46:28 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: OT: Global Warming Message-ID: <461ad1be$0$16407$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Neil Rieck" wrote in message news:461ab361$0$16318$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > [...snip...] > > Umm, it's a lot more complicated than taking your foot off the gas (pun > intended). > > Greenhouse gases, like CO2, stay in the atmosphere for many years after > they are released but the overall temperature increase triggers releases > of other greenhouse gases like methane (from thawing permafrost) and > methane hydrate (which boils to the ocean's surface as the water > temperature rises). And let's not forget about the big albedo change when > ice melts into water. Ice reflects 90% of sun light while water absorbs > 90%. This will have the same effect as throwing a switch. > Did anyone see the pro-nuclear piece on "60 Minutes" last night? If not, you can view it here: vid: http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2661956n txt: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/06/60minutes/main2655782.shtml NSR -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:08:49 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: OT: Global Warming Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: ... > While I now get your point about there not being too much carbon fuel > remaining, I fear that there is quite enough already available to do > permanent damage to our environment Well, for values of 'permanent' on the order of a century or two, anyway. But in 300 to 500 years the environment would likely be back to somewhere nearly where it would have been anyway - minus most of our modifications to it (like major cities...). and probably kill us all in my life > time. Probably not: it doesn't sound as if climate change would do in anywhere nearly everyone, disruptive though its effects would likely be. Certainly enough to severely damage or even largely destroy civilization as *we* know it, but possibly not enough to severely damage civilization as those in the back corners of undeveloped countries know it - not that they'll have anything like the tools we had to build civilization back up again without the help of fossil fuels, but they'll likely find a way eventually. So as long as we don't care too much what happens to the likes of *us*, things really don't look all that bad. Which is as it should be: we did most of the raping of the planet, so we should pay most of the price. > > Up until now, I just did not get the carbon tax thing built into Kyoto. > But after watching these videos I now am convinced that the only way to > reduce consumption of this very limited resource is to tax it at a level > much higher than the market place is prepared to charge. And use the revenue to subsidize use of renewable resources to minimize undue hardship on the poor and make the price difference even greater (while not making some limited use of fossil carbon where it is most difficult to replace any more expensive than is necessary to stretch supplies out to at least a few centuries - by which time we actually *might* have good substitutes across the board so that we don't have to apologize to future generations for our gluttony). - bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:07:14 -0400 From: "Richard B. gilbert" Subject: Re: script to FTP file Message-ID: <461AD532.2070509@comcast.net> zoohornrollo@gmail.com wrote: > I am new to VMS and need a simple callable script (like unix script) > to ftp a file to a windows box on our network. I could write this if > I were on Unix but nor VMS. If I get a base I think I can modify it > to my own uses. > > Thank you for any help given. > It looks something like this: $ FTP sys1.mumble.com /user=username /password=userpass ascii put myfile.txt bin put binary.dat bye $ This, or something that looked a lot like it, worked under TCP/IP Services V4.x and V5.0. If you need to pass the name of the file to be sent or fetched, you have to write DCL that writes DCL! If you still feel it's beyond you, I'll be glad to write it for you for a not too outrageous fee. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Apr 2007 17:31:33 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: script to FTP file Message-ID: <1176165093.339797.249700@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 9, 8:07 pm, "Richard B. gilbert" wrote: > zoohornro...@gmail.com wrote: > > I am new to VMS and need a simple callable script (like unix script) > > to ftp a file to a windows box on our network. I could write this if > > I were on Unix but nor VMS. If I get a base I think I can modify it > > to my own uses. > > > Thank you for any help given. > > It looks something like this: > > $ FTP sys1.mumble.com /user=username /password=userpass > ascii > put myfile.txt > bin > put binary.dat > bye > $ > > This, or something that looked a lot like it, worked under TCP/IP > Services V4.x and V5.0. > > If you need to pass the name of the file to be sent or fetched, you have > to write DCL that writes DCL! > > If you still feel it's beyond you, I'll be glad to write it for you for > a not too outrageous fee. Well, if the file is on your end, you can do it without writing a DCL command procedure that writes another DCL command procedure. You simply define a logical name that points to the file and put the logical name in the DCL command procedure. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:58:59 +0200 From: Dirk Munk Subject: Re: X25 packet tracing in VMS Message-ID: harikrishna.hari@gmail.com wrote: > Can any any one help me how to get the X25 Packet format in VMS 6 > Version? > I mean what are the commands to be given to get the Packet format > coming into VMS Alpha system How to trace the Packet. > > Regards, > Harry > You can use Trace for that purpose. It can trace packets on OSI level 2 and OSI level 3. You can trace live or record the trace in a file to analyse the data later. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.197 ************************