INFO-VAX Wed, 18 Apr 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 214 Contents: buildbot for OpenVMS Re: buildbot for OpenVMS Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? RE: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? RE: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Re: can you handle this? Re: can you handle this? Re: can you handle this? Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Mass mailing to all users Re: Now I've seen everything Re: OT: OpenVMS Re: Problem with BACKUP/LIST/JOU/SINCE/SELECT Re: Problem with BACKUP/LIST/JOU/SINCE/SELECT Re: Process Software: SocketException: function not implemented RE: Sun shows Rock first silicon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:49:05 +0200 From: JOUKJ Subject: buildbot for OpenVMS Message-ID: <24510$462621d1$82a13c9d$26233@news2.tudelft.nl> Hi All, Does anybody know of any porting to VMS is done for buildbot? (see https://sourceforge.net/projects/buildbot/ ) Jouk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:35:30 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: buildbot for OpenVMS Message-ID: JOUKJ wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anybody know of any porting to VMS is done for buildbot? > (see https://sourceforge.net/projects/buildbot/ ) > > Jouk Well it is written completely in Python, has uses of XML, and is chocked full of "if os = "win32"" type of checks. You might want to ask the developers via Sourceforge. -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:14:36 +0000 From: Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson Subject: Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Message-ID: David J. Dachtera writes: > Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >> >> David J. Dachtera writes: >> >> > I have to ask: Why does a programming language (other than an >> > interpretive environment) need a "garbage collector"??!! >> >> Maybe I'm implementing one in C++ and don't want to write my own >> garbage collector? Boehm GC, afaict, is very popular among such >> projects. > > ...which illustrates the difference in paradigm. > > You're looking for something you think you need. > > I'm asking why you need something that should never be needed. If a > compiled/linked program still needs garbage collection, either the > run-time, the program or both are seriously deficient. You assume a GC should never be needed. I don't know what kind of applications you're thinking of, but as I'm creating a lisp engine, and the language is designed for a GC (and I believe the first GC was written for the first lisp engine, but I can be wrong). There are several run time environments that do GC that work on VMS. Java is one, Oberon is another. There are probably more that I can't name righ now? Are those run-time environments *wrong*? Or do you just want them gone from VMS? This is a toy project right now, and doesn't deserve the effort of a custom built GC. I'd like it to work on VMS, but the lack of aparent VMS support of the Boehm GC has me stomped. http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/ The GC needs some system dependent details, such as register contents, stack and heap locations, and so forth to function properly. I don't know enough about VMS to supply and port Boehm right now. Johann ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 07:22:30 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > > To me, it seems essential that any routine that allocates memory for a > structure should have an accompanying one to deallocate that structure > (and any substructures attached to it). It seems to me that prorammers should not have to spend their time doing rote work like: writing constructors and destructors every time they happen to use a string. Computers are good at rote work. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 07:30:47 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: RE: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Message-ID: In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > > While the entire Java world uses garbage collection, I have never found > anyone (yet) who could explain to me why a properly designed and > debugged application needs to have a system level process running in the > background cleaning up allocated memory and other app cleanup stuff on > the system. It doesn't. That's just the Java approach. It's par tof why Java can't be deterministic, even if compiled to native instructions using the gnu Java compiler. But a different approach could have been to automatically free memory, always at the same time, just as if one had written the application in C and put the malloc and free calls in. Java seems able to automatically do the equivalent of malloc/new at the right time but not willing to do the same for free/delete. A different lanuage/compiler/Java-implementation could have done it determinstically. This would be easier for a language like Java, where String is an instrinsic data type, than for C++ which can't prevent the use of char*, but it also applies to objet creation and deletion when strings aren't included. If Java can keep track of objects well enough to guarantee to the garbage collector that it's OK to free them, then it could free them at the point the guarantee is reached without a separate garbage collector. That would at least have the benefit of making it deterministic. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:41:36 GMT From: John Santos Subject: RE: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Message-ID: In article , Kerry.Main@hp.com says... > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arne Vajhøj [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] > > Sent: April 17, 2007 9:28 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? > > > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > > While the entire Java world uses garbage collection, I have never > > found > > > anyone (yet) who could explain to me why a properly designed and > > > debugged application needs to have a system level process running in > > the > > > background cleaning up allocated memory and other app cleanup stuff > > on > > > the system. > > > > Experience shows that garbage collectors are more > > reliable and cheaper than programmers. > > > > > It also seems to me that a system level process kicking in at > > various > > > times not under your control to do application clean-up maintenance > > is > > > also not a very good approach to real time or mission critical > > > application processing design. > > > > I can not see why GC should be a problem for mission critical apps. > > > > Well, as I recall, one typically has very little control of when GC runs, hence a system process that kicks in during peak time for transactions does not seem like something you would want to risk. > > It also seems to me that a solution is certainly not a good one when memory is not properly allocated and de-allocated by design and depends on system processes to compensate for poor programming practices. > I suppose that observation would be relevant if it had anything to do with what a garbage collector does. Garbage collectors do *not* (at least the ones I've ever dealt with) find stuff in memory that was allocated, is no longer in use, but wasn't deallocated. (Maybe in LISP they do, it's been ages since I dealt with LISP, but that's the exception, not the rule.) Garbage collectors are *not* a cure for memory leaks. They are not a cure for sloppy programming. What garbage collectors do is re-allocate memory, compressing out the no-longer-used chunks, and pushing all the still-in-use chunks together, in order to consolidate the free space. (Think of a disk defragger, but intended for a memory pool rather than for a disk file structure.) Basic-Plus had a garbage collector; it would have been impossible to run a non-trivial program in 16KW without it. (The structures GC'ed in B+ are strings and dead (replaced) code.) VAX BASIC dispensed with a garbage collector, since virtual memory was (virtually) infinite. :-) If it ran out of string space (heap), it just expanded P0 space to make more (until you got INSVIRMEM.) It would re-use deallocated space if it could find a free chunk large enough to hold the request, but made no attempt to compactify the free space if it was too fragmented. Buy more memory. However, other languages make much more extensive and varied use of dynamic structures than BASIC does. (BASIC structures are either static, allocated at link time, or are local and allocated on the stack when the procedure is called and deallocated when the procedure exits. If one structure contains pointers to another, e.g. a RAB pointing to a FAB, the static nature of the structure ensures the pointer won't need to change.) The only dynamic objects in BASIC are strings, which are managed by the STR$ library (or equivalent BASRTL functions.) In a language that allows you to create dynamic structures on the fly, and in a much more chaotic fashion than BASIC (some very short lived, some semi-permanent, with pointers to each other and dynamically-sized components), a garbage collector might still be a good idea. The alternative is indefinite address space growth, which has a real cost even on a virtual memory system. This has nothing to do with bugs or sloppy programming. If the pattern of data processed by the program (and hence the pattern of structure creation and deletion) was completely predictable in advance, there would be no need to dynamically allocate the structures in the first place. But for many programs that have to deal with the real world, this isn't true. Garbage collection has a cost, not garbage collecting has a cost, you need to balance them to determine if its worthwhile. Most of the time it isn't, but it depends on the sort of problem being solved and the language being used. I've never programmed in C++, so I don't know in any specific case, but don't write off GC based on a misunderstanding of its function. > > > I am sure there a lots of mission critical apps using GC. > > > > It is well known that GC and real time systems does not fit well. > > > > Arne > > Regards > > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. > > > > -- John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:07:42 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Message-ID: Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: > David J. Dachtera writes: > >> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote: >>> David J. Dachtera writes: >>> >>>> I have to ask: Why does a programming language (other than an >>>> interpretive environment) need a "garbage collector"??!! >>> Maybe I'm implementing one in C++ and don't want to write my own >>> garbage collector? Boehm GC, afaict, is very popular among such >>> projects. >> ...which illustrates the difference in paradigm. >> >> You're looking for something you think you need. >> >> I'm asking why you need something that should never be needed. If a >> compiled/linked program still needs garbage collection, either the >> run-time, the program or both are seriously deficient. > > You assume a GC should never be needed. I don't know what kind of > applications you're thinking of, but as I'm creating a lisp engine, > and the language is designed for a GC (and I believe the first GC was I am not sure why you need a system based garbage collection scheme or how it relates to what you are doing in lisp. I don't know much about the Boehm GC nor what triggers its doing a garbage collection so please excuse my ignorance if the following is not relevant. Lisp wasn't designed for a GC. The GC was a necessity because of the way Lisp functioned. As atoms and expressions were created, their definitions and pointers were given "memory" from a free area. There were no "alloc" functions available at that time. A running application was loaded by the system into memory and given the memory area it requested. Lisp was loaded into memory with a defined contiguous area it used as a free space. As Lisp continues executing, atoms/expressions are allocated. When these "objects" were no longer pointed to, they were not placed back into the free area. Doing so would have involved to much maintenance code to keep track of what was being referenced. When memory needed to be allocated and there wasn't any left to give, lisp hiccuped and went into a garbage collection mode tracking down all the referenced memory areas and then chaining everything else into a new free list. If you are creating a lisp engine and you are doing it the same way as original lisp, you do need a garbage collector. Your other options are to painfully code to keep track of what is in use and what isn't using counters to keep track of pointers to a object and adding it back to the free list when the count went to zero. I don't think you can use system allocate and deallocate calls and let the system keep track of memory usage since you still would need to know when to tell the system to free up memory. Of course, your lisp machine is probably being designed to not have a maximum memory limitation. That complicates things. The original lisp died when you ran out of memory. > written for the first lisp engine, but I can be wrong). There are > several run time environments that do GC that work on VMS. Java is > one, Oberon is another. There are probably more that I can't name > righ now? Are those run-time environments *wrong*? Or do you just > want them gone from VMS? > > This is a toy project right now, and doesn't deserve the effort of a > custom built GC. I'd like it to work on VMS, but the lack of aparent > VMS support of the Boehm GC has me stomped. > > http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/ > > The GC needs some system dependent details, such as register contents, > stack and heap locations, and so forth to function properly. I don't > know enough about VMS to supply and port Boehm right now. > > > Johann > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:18:38 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: can you handle this? Message-ID: <4625b9e4$0$21930$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Dave Froble wrote: > Simon Clubley wrote: >> In article <6uqdnenvKtOay7nbnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@libcom.com>, Dave >> Froble writes: >>> Forget it Simon. His mouth works, but his ears don't. >>> >> >> Sadly, I've come to the same conclusion myself. >> >> To answer Bill Todd's "why even try" question elsewhere, I've had >> some quite interesting conversations with strongly religious people about >> their viewpoints versus my own atheist > > This indicates that you have a problem as big as boob's, if not so > strident. AS he has no real evidence to support his version of a god, > you have no real evidence to be able to claim that there is not a god. > > What's wrong with saying, there is not enough/any evidence to support > any conclusions, and therefore, "I just don't know"? > Agnosticism ? >> and liberal viewpoints but unfortunately >> Bob appears to be incapable (or simply afraid) to think about and >> explain why he believes what he does. >> >> Here ends my attempts at trying to communicate with him. >> >> I think that any followups to this post should be in email as it's >> nothing to do with COV - note that my email address in the From line has >> been >> altered to protect against spambots. >> >> Simon. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 06:17:42 -0500 From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Re: can you handle this? Message-ID: <9ER28ta2oHSZ@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , Dave Froble writes: > Simon Clubley wrote: >> >> To answer Bill Todd's "why even try" question elsewhere, I've had some >> quite interesting conversations with strongly religious people about their >> viewpoints versus my own atheist > > This indicates that you have a problem as big as boob's, if not so > strident. AS he has no real evidence to support his version of a god, > you have no real evidence to be able to claim that there is not a god. > > What's wrong with saying, there is not enough/any evidence to support > any conclusions, and therefore, "I just don't know"? > COV is not the right place for this discussion, but I can't let the above pass without briefly commenting on it. I'm an atheist because I don't see any scientific evidence to support the existance of a god. I also see science explaining events which were previously attributed to the actions of a god. In other words, I simply am not seeing a reason to believe that a god might be around. However, and this is why I consider myself different from Bob, if science turned up credible, peer reviewed, evidence of the existence of a god, that is something that would probably change my mind. BTW, up until a few years ago, I didn't really have an opinion about religion, one way or the other. It's only with the rise of religion around the planet that I've started thinking about my own position on the subject. Feel free to followup in email if you wish - how to despam my From: line should be obvious. Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:20:13 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: can you handle this? Message-ID: Simon Clubley wrote: > In article , Dave Froble writes: >> Simon Clubley wrote: >>> To answer Bill Todd's "why even try" question elsewhere, I've had some >>> quite interesting conversations with strongly religious people about their >>> viewpoints versus my own atheist >> This indicates that you have a problem as big as boob's, if not so >> strident. AS he has no real evidence to support his version of a god, >> you have no real evidence to be able to claim that there is not a god. >> >> What's wrong with saying, there is not enough/any evidence to support >> any conclusions, and therefore, "I just don't know"? >> > > COV is not the right place for this discussion, but I can't let the above > pass without briefly commenting on it. > > I'm an atheist because I don't see any scientific evidence to support the > existance of a god. I also see science explaining events which were > previously attributed to the actions of a god. In other words, I simply > am not seeing a reason to believe that a god might be around. I suspect that Dave's point is that under those circumstances (no proof, and arguably no *possible* proof, one way or the other), believing and asserting that God exists is not markedly sillier than believing and asserting that God does not exist. To me, at least, either seems like a waste of time and effort. If people want to believe in religion, that seems to me to be pretty much their business and nobody else's (as long as they *keep* it their business and don't try to control other members of society for religious purposes). True, it may be a waste of their time, but that's their right - and if they derive some personal satisfaction from their belief, then arguably it's not even strictly a waste of their time (any more than a hobby would be). Their right to believe certainly doesn't extend to any kind of right to have those beliefs respected by others, but neither is it particularly civil to attack such beliefs as long as they're being kept personal. Of course, when someone like boob insists on ranting about his beliefs in public, then he deserves what he gets. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:50:35 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: <732a$4625bff6$cef8887a$3397@TEKSAVVY.COM> In the days of interactive users, one could easily warn all users of some emergency with REPLY/ALL "message". But with users now "offline", perhaps VMS should gain some ability to send emails to all users defined in vmsmail_profile.data . (ALLIN1 has had that ability for a very long time with the SUBSCRIBERS special username accessible only to privileged users) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:15:16 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: In article <732a$4625bff6$cef8887a$3397@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > In the days of interactive users, one could easily warn all users of > some emergency with REPLY/ALL "message". > > But with users now "offline", perhaps VMS should gain some ability to > send emails to all users defined in vmsmail_profile.data . That many folks on the all-mighty MicroVAX II? :-) > (ALLIN1 has had that ability for a very long time with the SUBSCRIBERS > special username accessible only to privileged users) It shouldn't be that difficult to set up a .DIS file and send email to that. It shouldn't be that much more difficult to generate this file on the fly. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 00:19:03 -0700 From: "winston19842005@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: <1176880743.355354.48710@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Apr 18, 3:15 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article <732a$4625bff6$cef8887a$3...@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei > > writes: > > In the days of interactive users, one could easily warn all users of > > some emergency with REPLY/ALL "message". > > > But with users now "offline", perhaps VMS should gain some ability to > > send emails to all users defined in vmsmail_profile.data . > > That many folks on the all-mighty MicroVAX II? :-) > > > (ALLIN1 has had that ability for a very long time with the SUBSCRIBERS > > special username accessible only to privileged users) > > It shouldn't be that difficult to set up a .DIS file and send email to > that. It shouldn't be that much more difficult to generate this file on > the fly. He did say they were "offline". Probably can't have more than a dozen on at once... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:40:50 +0000 (UTC) From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: In article <732a$4625bff6$cef8887a$3397@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >In the days of interactive users, one could easily warn all users of >some emergency with REPLY/ALL "message". > >But with users now "offline", perhaps VMS should gain some ability to >send emails to all users defined in vmsmail_profile.data . > >(ALLIN1 has had that ability for a very long time with the SUBSCRIBERS >special username accessible only to privileged users) We implemented an "all" address several years ago. It is a simple file with a list of usernames. Our DCL-script that adds and deletes users takes care of this file. Then there is a DCL-script that runs everery hour to look into "all's" mails and distribute them to the usernames listed in the file in question. There are additional features implemented like - authorized users whose e-mails are distributed immediately - "normal" users whose e-mails are moved into a pending folder and an email is sent to the administrators - outside addresses are not allowed to send mail to "all" with some exceptions - attachments are rejected - replies to "all" are detected and answered accordingly ... Regards, Christoph Gartmann -- Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452 Immunbiologie Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de D-79011 Freiburg, Germany http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:21:02 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > In the days of interactive users, one could easily warn all users of > some emergency with REPLY/ALL "message". > > But with users now "offline", perhaps VMS should gain some ability to > send emails to all users defined in vmsmail_profile.data . > The equivalent to Reply/ALL is not to send to all accounts in vmsmail_profile, but to do a process scan, select all f$getjpi(pid,"MODE").eqs."INTERACTIVE", put f$getjpi(pid,"USERNAME") into a .DIS file on the fly, remove duplicates from the .DIS file, and send the mail to this list. Everything in a rather simple DCL program, and can be used depending on privileges (GROUP,WORLD) to send to all users logged on. Quick hack without error checking: $ CONTEXT = "" $ open/write dis active.dis $ START: $ PID = F$PID(CONTEXT) $ IF PID .EQS. "" THEN goto done $ user = f$getjpi(PID,"USERNAME") $ mode = f$getjpi(PID,"MODE") $ if mode.eqs."INTERACTIVE" then write dis user $ GOTO START $ done: close dis $ sort active.dis active.dis /noduplicates/key=(pos:1,siz:12) $ mail message.txt "@active.dis" -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:43:51 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: Joseph Huber wrote: > The equivalent to Reply/ALL is not to send to all accounts in > vmsmail_profile, but > to do a process scan, select all f$getjpi(pid,"MODE").eqs."INTERACTIVE", > put f$getjpi(pid,"USERNAME") into a .DIS file on the fly, > remove duplicates from the .DIS file, and send the mail to this list. > Well, to quickly too many fingers on keyboard :-) While my procedure does what it should, rereading JFs question, those interactive users do not exist, because being "offline", so it's useless. But things one wanted to inform users with reply/all are probably not for all those registered (in vmsmail or authorize), and in big user community this makes a big difference ! So maybe Christoph's selective user-list might be the right one between "interactive" and "all registered. -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:10:15 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: <3568a$4625e0b1$cef8887a$13523@TEKSAVVY.COM> Joseph Huber wrote: > The equivalent to Reply/ALL is not to send to all accounts in > vmsmail_profile, but > to do a process scan, select all f$getjpi(pid,"MODE").eqs."INTERACTIVE", > put f$getjpi(pid,"USERNAME") into a .DIS file on the fly, > remove duplicates from the .DIS file, and send the mail to this list. I was thinking in the context of the the nutcase who used his constitutional right to bear arms to kill a whole bunch of students at that USA university. The university was able to send a mass mailing to all its student. Students are no longer "logged in" to servers, they just access them via server applications such as IMAP/POP etc. So there is no real ability to use the VMS terminal broadcasts to reach your users. I am not sure that VMS mail could handle a distribution list of 25,000 users. (especially since many may have forwarded their email to some external email address). Consider how MAIL processes distribution lists: it loads each usernae in memory, then builds the email message and then proceeds to send to each user in memory. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:01:01 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > I am not sure that VMS mail could handle a distribution list of 25,000 > users. (especially since many may have forwarded their email to some > external email address). Consider how MAIL processes distribution lists: > it loads each usernae in memory, then builds the email message and then > proceeds to send to each user in memory. I think big organizations do not rely on plain VMS mail to handle mass-mailings. For smaller systems though I would not use vmsmail_profile as the source for the distribution list: it may contain lots of non-existant users, aliases leading to duplicates, and all those virtual mail destinations like system,root,postmaster,webmaster,tcpip$smtp,... Long ago (before switching to a central mail-server off VMS), I had in vmsmail_profile some alias (Firstname.Lastname, I.Lastname) for every user. And just reading (the forward field of) vmsmail_profile it is almost impossible (for a program) to match aliases to real user accounts. Using the UAF data, one can select using UIC and flags (disabled,dismail, last login date) to reach only the active real users. -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 03:15:31 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: <1176891331.528581.311740@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> Communigate Pro or Quintera are both splendid products available for VMS which can handle mailing to large email lists (and many other things). Of course you have to be careful not be be accused of sending spam. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 07:42:49 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Mass mailing to all users Message-ID: In article <732a$4625bff6$cef8887a$3397@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > In the days of interactive users, one could easily warn all users of > some emergency with REPLY/ALL "message". > > But with users now "offline", perhaps VMS should gain some ability to > send emails to all users defined in vmsmail_profile.data . For this purpose I maintain a .dis file based on the contents of SYSUAF. It's easy to add and emove users from the .dis file when I add or remove users from the UAF, I can always look up an appropriate email address to send to. If I were working in a school or similar where large numbers of users were added and removed, I'd automate the process, but rely on each user to set thier own forwarding address in thier own mail. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:59:36 +0200 From: Marc Van Dyck Subject: Re: Now I've seen everything Message-ID: David J Dachtera submitted this idea : > Marc Van Dyck wrote: >> >> David J Dachtera formulated on mardi : >>> Neil Rieck wrote: >>>> >>>> Last night on TLC the boys from American Chopper received a phone call >>>> from HP. It seems that the boys down in Houston want to have an HP- >>>> Themed chopper built for some such reason. Was it a set-up when Paul >>>> Sr. smashed a working PC then stepped on it and found that it still >>>> worked? I don't know but I now can die in peace because I have seen >>>> everything. >>> >>> Well, not quite everything. You haven't seen: >>> >>> o A full-page ad in the mainstream media for anything running on or related >>> to OpenVMS-I64 >>> >>> o An I64 SuperDome that can outperform an Alpha EV7z GS1280 >> >> Sorry to rain on your parade, Dave, but I think a Superdome with >> Montecito CPUs does that fingers in the nose. > > See the Itanium/Integrity presentations from the most recent HP Tech Forum, > Fall 2006 in Houston. Let me know if you can't find/access them. See the most recent presentations that our friend Guy Peleg has given in Brussels about one month ago. > > The issue is not CPU-related, it's internal architecture related. Memory > access times are problematic, unless there's been a major break through in > that area. > > Add to this the fact that Power-5 outperforms EV7z by 3 to 1, and well, need > I go on? > >> For the two other parts of your reply, there I'll admit that you have >> a point. > > Quite. -- Marc Van Dyck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:58:25 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: OpenVMS Message-ID: <00A66517.CE542742@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <462574f1$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> BTW, I will have a friend from Denmark (Horsens) here for a week beginning >> late next Monday. He's a cricket fan and runs the Danish cricket site. I >> going to take him to a baseball game to see if he can follow along. :) > >I am a lot closer to New Jersey than to Horsens at the moment. Are you in the states at this time? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 05:33:21 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Problem with BACKUP/LIST/JOU/SINCE/SELECT Message-ID: <1176899601.392069.124630@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 17, 10:10 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > AEF wrote: > > > On Apr 16, 10:52 pm, David J Dachtera > > wrote: > > > [snip] > > > A little more background may be useful... > > > I have a BACKUP journal file that consists of several save set > > "listings". I want to extract the listing of just the latest one. > > According to the docs, I should be able to use /SINC to select save > > sets after the /SINCE date, but it only works for /BEFORE, which > > doesn't help me. > > Ah. Well, I looked at the on-line help, but it doesn't go into enough detail on > /SINCE for me to confirm that. Same here. > > Any chance you can cite the on-line documentation? It's documented under BACKUP/JOURNAL. I just posted it in the OT thread as a reply to Froble's message. > > I've rarely used BACKUP journals as they do not provide all the info I need. > What I typically need is not available: the detail which only appears in the > listing with the events which appear only in the journal (like volume > cross-overs and such). Well, the advantage of BACKUP journal filesl is that they take up much less space than list files. > > Maybe a new qualifer, /JLIST[=filespec] which combines both. > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systemshttp://www.djesys.com/ AEF [...] ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 05:57:58 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Problem with BACKUP/LIST/JOU/SINCE/SELECT Message-ID: <1176901078.773003.204890@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Apr 17, 11:22 pm, Doug Phillips wrote: > On Apr 16, 2:31 pm, "AEF" wrote: > > > > > > > $ BACK/LIS/JOU=STOR-2007/SINC=1-APR-2007/SELE=BITMAP > > Listing of BACKUP journal > > Journal file SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FELDMAN.BACKUP]STOR-2007.BJL;1 on 16- > > APR-2007 21:29:13.63 > > > Save set STOR-070131.IMG created on 31-JAN-2007 10:12:32.08 > > Volume number 1, volume label STOR50 > > [000000]BITMAP.SYS;1 file header only > > > Save set STOR-070302.IMG created on 2-MAR-2007 20:37:59.84 > > Volume number 1, volume label STOR50 > > [000000]BITMAP.SYS;1 file header only > > . > > . > > . > > > VMS V6.2 > > > OK, what am I doing wrong? It works fine for /BEFORE, but seems to > > completely ignore /SINCE. > > On both V6.2 VAX and V7.3-2 Alpha I get the same results. /BEFORE > works as expected, but /SINCE seems to be ignored.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - OK, so it's a long-standing bug. Thanks for confirming! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:01:35 -0400 From: "Richard Whalen" Subject: Re: Process Software: SocketException: function not implemented Message-ID: I downloaded the Rdb Java kit from Oracle's site and tried it on my Integrity system running OpenVMS 8.3 with TCPware 5.7-2 and experienced no problems. I tried it with both Java 4.2 and 5.0. --------------------------- Richard Whalen Process Software ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2007 07:15:33 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: RE: Sun shows Rock first silicon Message-ID: In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > > Define free .. is it like "Linux is free as long as your time and labour > is worth nothing?" Compared to MS which costs both up front as well as your time and labor. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.214 ************************