INFO-VAX Fri, 04 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 244 Contents: Re: Any futher news on DecCampus equivalent for Itanium VMS in the UK? Re: Any futher news on DecCampus equivalent for Itanium VMS in the UK? Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? GNV Breaks VMS (was: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free e RE: Java problem Re: Java problem Re: Java problem Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Re: Motif routines uses by DECterms Re: Motif routines uses by DECterms Re: Noahs ark found! Re: Noahs ark found! Re: Noahs ark found! OT Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms SSI clusters (VMS) now irrelevant? Re: SSI clusters (VMS) now irrelevant? Re: SSI clusters (VMS) now irrelevant? Re: To re-link or not to re-link for VMS upgrade (Post contains short and long v Re: To re-link or not to re-link for VMS upgrade (Post contains short and long v ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 4 May 2007 06:19:28 -0700 From: Verne Subject: Re: Any futher news on DecCampus equivalent for Itanium VMS in the UK? Message-ID: <1178284768.839808.160310@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On May 3, 7:52 pm, dav...@montagar.com wrote: > On May 3, 5:04 pm, insomnee wrote: > > > Any futher news on DecCampus equivalent for Itanium VMS in the UK? > > Any reason the OpenVMS Educational License Program (which is world- > wide, provides free licenses, and includes Itanium licenses for > faculty, admins, and even students) wouldn't work for you?http://www.openvmsedu.com Here in the US, there are several licenses in CSLG that are not in the ELP :-) Verne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:29:42 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: Re: Any futher news on DecCampus equivalent for Itanium VMS in the UK? Message-ID: <20070504132942.GA71981@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Fri, May 04, 2007 at 06:19:28AM -0700, Verne wrote: > On May 3, 7:52 pm, dav...@montagar.com wrote: > > On May 3, 5:04 pm, insomnee wrote: > > > > > Any futher news on DecCampus equivalent for Itanium VMS in the UK? > > > > Any reason the OpenVMS Educational License Program (which is world- > > wide, provides free licenses, and includes Itanium licenses for > > faculty, admins, and even students) wouldn't work for you?http://www.openvmsedu.com > > Here in the US, there are several licenses in CSLG that are not in the > ELP :-) something important? give few examples please. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 2007 23:00:55 -0700 From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Message-ID: <1178258455.154655.201920@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> The DECnet startup (NET$STARTUP.COM) seems to hang. The quorum disk message has nothing to do with this, the cluster server process just repeats this OPCOM message every couple of minutes, until the quorum disk gets mounted - which will not happen, as your DECnet startup hangs and SYTSTARTUP_VMS.COM does not get executed... Force a system crash (CTRL-P CTRL-P y) and boot minimum to look at the dump what preventing NET$STARTUP.COM from continuing. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 07:18:20 GMT From: "Colin Butcher" Subject: Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Message-ID: <07B_h.11711$Ro3.1324@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> If you really don't want DECnet (which you may find causes all sorts of other things to break, depending on how your systems are configured and what software you're running), then why not just boot minimum and use PRODUCT REMOVE to take it off the disc? -- Cheers, Colin. Legacy = Stuff that works properly! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 12:13:06 GMT From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Message-ID: In article <1178258455.154655.201920@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Volker Halle wrote: >The DECnet startup (NET$STARTUP.COM) seems to hang. The quorum disk >message has nothing to do with this, the cluster server process just >repeats this OPCOM message every couple of minutes, until the quorum >disk gets mounted - which will not happen, as your DECnet startup >hangs and SYTSTARTUP_VMS.COM does not get executed... > >Force a system crash (CTRL-P CTRL-P y) and boot minimum to look at the >dump what preventing NET$STARTUP.COM from continuing. Wild guess... There's a problem with the default value of system parameter GH_EXEC_DATA, and the AUTOGEN calculation has a day-1 bug (This is only on Itanium, not Alpha). It wasn't noticed until some V8.3 systems started having trouble starting up things like DECnet, TCP/IP, DECwindows, or Availability Manager. (The symptom seems to depend on the details of the configuration.) GH_EXEC_DATA is probably 1024. Increasing it to 1536 has been found to eliminate startup problems in several areas. -- Robert ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 07:55:59 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Message-ID: In article <1178229741.582055.283380@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, insomnee writes: > > On the rx7640 cluster, it appears to get so far on boot up and then > stop. It complains that is cannot mount the quorum disk, DGA1, though > the system says it forms a cluster, drops the connection, reconnects, > continues the boot and then stops here. Can't get out of it, message > repeats on a 5 minute loop. I've had to restore my standalone backup > to get back to a stable point and not sure where to go from here. Any > Ideas? > Did you configure your DECnet address to be compatable with your SCSSYSTEMID? ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 07:11:04 -0700 From: robert.heyes@googlemail.com Subject: Re: DecNet Plus installation on VMS 8.3 Itanium Message-ID: <1178287864.344061.36170@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On May 4, 8:18 am, "Colin Butcher" wrote: > If you really don't want DECnet (which you may find causes all sorts of > other things to break, depending on how your systems are configured and what > software you're running), then why not just boot minimum and use PRODUCT > REMOVE to take it off the disc? > > -- > Cheers, Colin. > Legacy = Stuff that works properly! It was me that didnt want it, the developers do want it so they dont have to change any code. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 08:03:20 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: "Z." wrote in message news:yhx_h.724$aa6.714@newsfe12.lga... > FredK wrote: >> Eating Raoul > > !!! I loved that movie. > > "Do you believe in a sixth sense?" > "Hey, lady, I gave you more than a buck!" > > Haven't seen it in years ... It's amazing what you can do with a cheap piece of meat. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 08:26:52 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <8FF_h.3$uK6.1@newsfe12.lga> FredK wrote: > "Z." wrote in message > news:yhx_h.724$aa6.714@newsfe12.lga... >> FredK wrote: >>> Eating Raoul >> !!! I loved that movie. >> >> "Do you believe in a sixth sense?" >> "Hey, lady, I gave you more than a buck!" >> >> Haven't seen it in years ... > > It's amazing what you can do with a cheap piece of meat. > I though this was supposed to be about suggestions for use in a VMS promo. It is no longer relevant and should be tagged OT. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 08:10:48 -0700 From: "Z." Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: sol gongola wrote: > I though this was supposed to be about > suggestions for use in a VMS promo. > > It is no longer relevant and should be tagged OT. this.tag(). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:56:50 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: "sol gongola" wrote in message news:8FF_h.3$uK6.1@newsfe12.lga... > FredK wrote: >> "Z." wrote in message >> news:yhx_h.724$aa6.714@newsfe12.lga... >>> FredK wrote: >>>> Eating Raoul >>> !!! I loved that movie. >>> >>> "Do you believe in a sixth sense?" >>> "Hey, lady, I gave you more than a buck!" >>> >>> Haven't seen it in years ... >> >> It's amazing what you can do with a cheap piece of meat. >> > I though this was supposed to be about > suggestions for use in a VMS promo. > > It is no longer relevant and should be tagged OT. I don't know... nobody said how the movie had to be relevant. They just asked for favorite movies of the VMS crowd. Now, if we can can tag OT Noahs ark and all the rest of the *real* nonsense threads. ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 08:20:46 -0700 From: Peter Weaver Subject: GNV Breaks VMS (was: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free e Message-ID: <1178292046.216284.183270@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On May 3, 10:54 pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: >... > The stupid GNV kit also created a [mnt] directory, which is pointers to > all your _other_ disks. So a directory of SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...] will > list all your files on all your disks, not just SYS$SYSDEVICE! Guess > what a $ PURGE SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...] will do! >... Yes, GNV does break the way VMS normally works. Has anyone else tried to follow up with HP on this? My email to the Documentation group asking them to put a warning in the release notes to warn people was never answered. In the same email I asked what should be in Item 4 of Section 6 and what the end of paragraph 8.1 should be in the readme file. I did not get an answer to any of my questions and I see that the Readme First PDF is still missing these parts. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial Hardware ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:11:10 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Java problem Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: insomnee [mailto:insomnee_a@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: May 3, 2007 6:07 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Java problem >=20 > We are migrating our Oracle 7 / forms 45 VMS 7.2-1 application to > Oracle 10g / forms 10g on OpenVMS 8.3 on Itanium. >=20 > A user invokes a Java job from an Oracle 10g form in order to submit > operating system commands and bacth jobs to a VMS batch queue. >=20 > The java job then submits a DCL JOB on VMS under the ORACLE10G user, > this then submit the required job to the correct batch queue as the > real user (the user logged on to the form). > The batch queue number is written to a file which is later picked up > by the form to show to the user and the user continues. >=20 > In the background when the user has submitted the request from the > form the DCL job invokes a cobol transactions generating an Oracle > report / database update. This java job is key to our application in > calling our various transactions that exist on the VMS platform. >=20 > However when this job is invoked the execution hangs after three or > four invocations from the same user session.When the batch queue in > which the job runs is closed an unlimited number of jobs can be queued > successfully,the problem is non existent, but we can't run our > transactions until the queue is then started. The java job is using > runtime.exec, it appear that it hangs during the process.wait() > although the job I is waiting for successfully runs on the batch > queue. >=20 > We have eliminated ORACLE FORMS as the problem as the java code can > also be made to hang when submitted directly from the database. > (although less frequently). >=20 > The problem occurs only when it is a job submitted to a queue via > epsQueueJob. >=20 > Any ideas? A few suggestions - - ensure you are using minimum VMS V8.3 Update 2=20 - ensure you are using latest available Java (V1.5.-3 as I recall) - monitor each process involved for quota issues. With V8.3, you can watch these processes dynamically via: $ show proc/cont/id=3Dxxx (then hit Q to see quotas) or (my preference) Use Availability Manager (AM) from either the same OpenVMS system, another OpenVMS system or a PC Windows/laptop box. - check out the following java guide for OpenVMS:(bit dated, but most tips-n-tricks should still apply) http://h71000.www7.hp.com/ebusiness/OptimizingSDKGuide/optimizingsdkguid e.pdf=20 Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 06:36:53 -0700 From: tim.beaudin@hp.com Subject: Re: Java problem Message-ID: <1178285813.329530.258790@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On May 3, 6:06 pm, insomnee wrote: > We are migrating our Oracle 7 / forms 45 VMS 7.2-1 application to > Oracle 10g / forms 10g on OpenVMS 8.3 on Itanium. > > A user invokes a Java job from an Oracle 10g form in order to submit > operating system commands and bacth jobs to a VMS batch queue. > > The java job then submits a DCL JOB on VMS under the ORACLE10G user, > this then submit the required job to the correct batch queue as the > real user (the user logged on to the form). > The batch queue number is written to a file which is later picked up > by the form to show to the user and the user continues. > > In the background when the user has submitted the request from the > form the DCL job invokes a cobol transactions generating an Oracle > report / database update. This java job is key to our application in > calling our various transactions that exist on the VMS platform. > > However when this job is invoked the execution hangs after three or > four invocations from the same user session.When the batch queue in > which the job runs is closed an unlimited number of jobs can be queued > successfully,the problem is non existent, but we can't run our > transactions until the queue is then started. The java job is using > runtime.exec, it appear that it hangs during the process.wait() > although the job I is waiting for successfully runs on the batch > queue. > > We have eliminated ORACLE FORMS as the problem as the java code can > also be made to hang when submitted directly from the database. > (although less frequently). > > The problem occurs only when it is a job submitted to a queue via > epsQueueJob. > > Any ideas? Hi, Not sure if it would help but, maybe try defining java$exec_trace (/ job) to see what the parameters are for the runtime.exec command. Check out the following, look for java$exec_trace. http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/documentation/1.5.0/ovms/docs/user_guide.html Tim ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 07:06:47 -0700 From: robert.heyes@googlemail.com Subject: Re: Java problem Message-ID: <1178287602.608997.296220@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On May 4, 2:36 pm, tim.beau...@hp.com wrote: > On May 3, 6:06 pm, insomnee wrote: > > > > > > > We are migrating our Oracle 7 / forms 45 VMS 7.2-1 application to > > Oracle 10g / forms 10g on OpenVMS 8.3 on Itanium. > > > A user invokes a Java job from an Oracle 10g form in order to submit > > operating system commands and bacth jobs to a VMS batch queue. > > > The java job then submits a DCL JOB on VMS under the ORACLE10G user, > > this then submit the required job to the correct batch queue as the > > real user (the user logged on to the form). > > The batch queue number is written to a file which is later picked up > > by the form to show to the user and the user continues. > > > In the background when the user has submitted the request from the > > form the DCL job invokes a cobol transactions generating an Oracle > > report / database update. This java job is key to our application in > > calling our various transactions that exist on the VMS platform. > > > However when this job is invoked the execution hangs after three or > > four invocations from the same user session.When the batch queue in > > which the job runs is closed an unlimited number of jobs can be queued > > successfully,the problem is non existent, but we can't run our > > transactions until the queue is then started. The java job is using > > runtime.exec, it appear that it hangs during the process.wait() > > although the job I is waiting for successfully runs on the batch > > queue. > > > We have eliminated ORACLE FORMS as the problem as the java code can > > also be made to hang when submitted directly from the database. > > (although less frequently). > > > The problem occurs only when it is a job submitted to a queue via > > epsQueueJob. > > > Any ideas? > > Hi, > > Not sure if it would help but, maybe try defining java$exec_trace (/ > job) to see what the parameters are for the runtime.exec command. > Check out the following, look for java$exec_trace. > > http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/documentation/1.5.0/ovms/docs/user_gui... > > Tim- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - We're thinking it might have something to do with bytlm being too low, we now have it set to 2million. I will pass info back to our developers. Thanks for your help! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:09:12 -0400 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: Making LIB$*_VM_PAGE Caller's-mode safe Message-ID: Ian Miller wrote: > I think you have a good technical case but I've not seen any argument > in terms of money. HP, like other large companies such as the one I am > employed by, are run by beancounters And there is the basic problem. Beancounters have never built anything. When beancounters bubble up to the top, a company stops innovating. For any product, if a good feature makes the product better, then a company in the business of building better products will implement the feature. Beancounters cut R&D so the beancounters can live off the carcass a while longer. -- David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc. 170 Grimplin Road Vanderbilt, PA 15486 ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 02:41:59 -0700 From: shofu_au@yahoo.com.au Subject: Re: Motif routines uses by DECterms Message-ID: <1178271719.397004.176370@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Hi Fred, Thanks for the information and the example. I will have a go at modifiying my code to do similar. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 08:02:39 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Motif routines uses by DECterms Message-ID: wrote in message news:1178271719.397004.176370@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > Hi Fred, > > Thanks for the information and the example. > > I will have a go at modifiying my code to do similar. No problem. The strategy is pretty common with sophisticated text imaging (from terminal emulators, to editors) - keep an internal representation of what is on screen, and update only what changes. Batch as much output as you can into one operation - balancing that against "responsiveness". A Motif widget is a nice high level abstraction that will deal with a lot of housekeeping and give you a consistent look and feel - but the cost of the generality will be performance. In general with CPUs being hundreds of times faster (and graphics being far, far faster) than when the Motif widgets were originally written - for the most part they are just fine for 95% of what people need to do. ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 05:27:07 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: <1178281627.335415.304600@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On May 3, 2:14 pm, "Dan Drake" wrote: > [Did my newsreader manage to post a useless thing quoting most of that > message? If so, sorry.] > > On Wed, 2 May 2007 12:24:16 UTC, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > > In article , > > David Mathog writes: > > >... > > > "It was a conflict that ought never to have occurred, because > > > faith and science, properly understood, can never be at odds." > > > > Quoted from here: > > > > http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Issues/GalileoAffair.html > > > Which is true, because Galileo's crime was not what he taught, but > > purely a crime of disobedience to lawful authority. > > >... > > "Purely" is a dangerous, or anyway dubious, word to use with the history > of the real world, which is always more complicated than our pet theries. > Consider, for instance, > > ==== > 1. The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and > immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and formally > heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures. Where? I haven't read the entire Bible, but I'm not aware of this being stated so explicitly. > 2. The proposition that the earth is not the center of the world, nor > immovable, but that it moves, and also with a diurnal action, is also > absurd, philosophically false, and, theologically considered, at least > erroneous in faith. Same. > ... > > ...you, the said Galileo . . . have rendered yourself vehemently suspected > by this Holy Office of heresy, that is, of having believed and held the > doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) > that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from > east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the > world; also, that an opinion can be held and supported as probable, after > it has been declared and finally decreed contrary to the Holy Scripture, > and, consequently, that you have incurred all the censures and penalties > enjoined and promulgated in the sacred canons and other general and > particular constituents against delinquents of this description. Now I'm almost a little surprised because the church did astronomical observations and calculations to correct the Julian calendar and start the Gregorian calendar in 1582 and this persecution of Galileo happend later in the 1600's. And didn't anyone happen to notice that the position of the sun relative to "the fixed stars" repeats itself in the same yearly cycle as the solstices? This should have been a clue but I guess no one picked up on it! (Every star rises about 4 minutes [I think it's 3m 56s] earlier each night, completing a "trip" in a year. See "sidereal day".) > > ==== > > That's from the official condemnation, to be found athttp://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1630galileo.html > > There's also stuff about disobedience there, but the Inquisiton's [...] > > -- > Dan Drake > d...@dandrake.comhttp://www.dandrake.com/ > porlockjr.blogspot.com AEF ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 08:02:34 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: In article <1178281627.335415.304600@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > Where? I haven't read the entire Bible, but I'm not aware of this > being stated so explicitly. > I've never experienced any church which actually limited itself to teaching only the contents of the Bible. All kinds of authors get thier licks in via story books written for Sunday school, new Hymns, pamphlets, and such. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 17:07:33 GMT From: Alfred Falk Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: AEF wrote in news:1178284173.668688.105910@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > On May 4, 9:02 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote: >> In article <1178281627.335415.304...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, >> AEF writes: >> >> >> >> > Where? I haven't read the entire Bible, but I'm not aware of this >> > being stated so explicitly. >> >> I've never experienced any church which actually limited itself to >> teaching only the contents of the Bible. All kinds of authors get >> thier licks in via story books written for Sunday school, new >> Hymns, pamphlets, and such. > >>From what I remarked about: > >> ==== >> 1. The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and >> immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and >> formally heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy >> Scriptures. > > It says "Holy Scriptures". I guess there could be some other than the > Bible. Just wondering exactly where in what "Holy Scritpure" the > charge is referring to. > > AEF In this case, "Holy Scriptures" refers to Genesis _as interpreted by church leaders_ - who are, of course, divinely inspired and never wrong. I would say that's what the phrase always means. AEF wrote in news:1178281627.335415.304600 @o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: > Now I'm almost a little surprised because the church did astronomical > observations and calculations to correct the Julian calendar and start > the Gregorian calendar in 1582 and this persecution of Galileo happend > later in the 1600's. And didn't anyone happen to notice that the > position of the sun relative to "the fixed stars" repeats itself in > the same yearly cycle as the solstices? This should have been a clue > but I guess no one picked up on it! (Every star rises about 4 minutes > [I think it's 3m 56s] earlier each night, completing a "trip" in a > year. See "sidereal day".) These observations are entirely consistant with a stationary earth, and moving sun and stars - and other planets revolving around the sun. Not until Newton was there a really good physical reason to choose between those systems. /another AEF -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- A L B E R T A Alfred Falk falk@arc.ab.ca R E S E A R C H Information Systems Dept (780)450-5185 C O U N C I L 250 Karl Clark Road Edmonton, Alberta, Canada http://www.arc.ab.ca/ T6N 1E4 http://outside.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:40:12 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: OT Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: In article <8FF_h.3$uK6.1@newsfe12.lga>, sol gongola writes: >FredK wrote: >> "Z." wrote in message >> news:yhx_h.724$aa6.714@newsfe12.lga... >>> FredK wrote: >>>> Eating Raoul >>> !!! I loved that movie. >>> >>> "Do you believe in a sixth sense?" >>> "Hey, lady, I gave you more than a buck!" >>> >>> Haven't seen it in years ... >> >> It's amazing what you can do with a cheap piece of meat. >> >I though this was supposed to be about >suggestions for use in a VMS promo. > >It is no longer relevant and should be tagged OT. Strangely this started out tagged OT although being for a promo was relatively on topic and then somehow lost the OT tag as it moved to become more off topic. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 01:51:05 -0700 From: "Z." Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: Steven M. Schweda wrote: > For the best combination of character, performance, plot, and DEC > content (pre-VMS, but right there behind the opening credits), I can't > think of anything to beat "Three Days of the Condor" (MCMLXXV, "SPECIAL > EQUIPMENT FURNISHED BY DIGITAL CORPORATION".) 3DoTC definitely had the best exposure of DEC equipment in any movie I've seen. At the time of release, it was a big deal that Rainbows(?) got placed in Ghostbusters. And, IIRC, DEC had a hand in the robot movement control and animation for Short Circuit. I don't recall seeing any other movies where DEC equipment or VMS was featured. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 16:17:53 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2007, Z. wrote: > I don't recall seeing any other movies where DEC equipment or VMS > was featured. What kind of computer terminal was John McClane throwing down the elevator shaft in Die Hard? -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 12:28:20 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <9ae86$463b5f29$cef8887a$8490@TEKSAVVY.COM> Rob Brown wrote: > What kind of computer terminal was John McClane throwing down the > elevator shaft in Die Hard? It was just a monitor/CRT. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 09:30:33 -0700 From: "Z." Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: Rob Brown wrote: >> I don't recall seeing any other movies where DEC equipment or VMS was >> featured. > > What kind of computer terminal was John McClane throwing down the > elevator shaft in Die Hard? Do tell! "Take THIS under advisement." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:38:58 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: In article <133euv7gd81ki66@corp.supernews.com>, "Doug Kimball" writes: > So, what are your top three favorite movies, VMSophiles? We need a promo for > the upcoming HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua, and we would love your input. OK, it's cheesy, and a TV series, but wasn't there a VT100 in an episode of the original Battlestar Galactica? "The Way the Future Was" (title of Fred Pohl's autobiography) indeed! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:44:35 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: In article <1178241336.771007.277670@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Sue writes: > Space Cowboys Isn't there some Fortran code in Space Cowboys? Anyone recognise any VAX extensions? ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 01:58:49 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Message-ID: <1178269129.276118.13900@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> http://groups.google.com/group/systems-support-vms/browse_frm/thread/de843d2a5f11ef80 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:48:24 +0200 From: Dirk Munk Subject: Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Message-ID: Ian Miller wrote: > http://groups.google.com/group/systems-support-vms/browse_frm/thread/de843d2a5f11ef80 > Very nice if you happen to live in India. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:30:05 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" Subject: Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Message-ID: <2kI_h.27961$qB4.5089@bignews3.bellsouth.net> And try getting a work visa for India !! Funny how one-sided it is.... Scary thing is that this is for HP !!!! Most of their tech support people are no doubt being trained in USB Printer repairs and reading the "how to install a new ink cartridge" brochure as their primary training. At the bottom of that "How To" is - "Congratulations! You are now a certified VMS, Tru64 unix and HP printer technician" dt "Dirk Munk" wrote in message news:f1f6i8$9ar$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl... > Ian Miller wrote: >> http://groups.google.com/group/systems-support-vms/browse_frm/thread/de843d2a5f11ef80 >> > Very nice if you happen to live in India. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 09:02:52 -0700 From: David Mathog Subject: Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Message-ID: Dirk Munk wrote: > Ian Miller wrote: >> http://groups.google.com/group/systems-support-vms/browse_frm/thread/de843d2a5f11ef80 >> >> > Very nice if you happen to live in India. The job is to "provide remote 2nd level technical support" so it really shouldn't matter where in the world the person who does this work is located. Except of course the true intent is most likely for HP to export a US job to India at a lower rate of pay. It would be interesting to know what the salary for this position is. Ever notice how upper management and board level positions are never exported to countries where they could be filled at a lower cost? That is, until the company eventually implodes and this happens anyway? Regards, David Mathog ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 06:46:57 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: SSI clusters (VMS) now irrelevant? Message-ID: <1178286417.404445.236840@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> they cannot beat them, so they are trying to make them obsolete by offering more complex solutions ... http://blogs.zdnet.com/virtualization/?p=126 ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 06:55:41 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: SSI clusters (VMS) now irrelevant? Message-ID: <1178286941.762351.193950@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On May 4, 9:46 am, gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > they cannot beat them, so they are trying to make them > obsolete by offering more complex solutions ... > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/virtualization/?p=126 interesting quotes from this article ... "After close to 30 years of evolution, this software still is one of the best examples of SSI clustering. During the last moments of independent life as a corporation, Digital offered the code that made VMSclusters work to Microsoft for inclusion in its Wolfpack project. Rather than embark on that rather difficult journey, Microsoft chose to implement a high availability/failover system rather than a true single system image cluster. " so Palmer was giving away their best technolgy? That really helped shareholders ... what a fool ... proves he must have been paid off by Gates ... "At one point, HP promised to provide SSI clustering on its HP/UX systems. Later on when the enormity of that task became clear, the company backed away from that promise and offered an improved version of ServiceGuard that, even today, is only a high availability/failover environment. " so HP still is pushing an inferior solution on unix when it has a superior solution to offer in vms ... brilliant ... ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 07:23:38 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: SSI clusters (VMS) now irrelevant? Message-ID: <1178288617.966926.301240@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On May 4, 9:46 am, gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > they cannot beat them, so they are trying to make them > obsolete by offering more complex solutions ... > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/virtualization/?p=126 "Why don't we hear more about the SSI concept today? The reason is pretty clear. Architects of today's IT solutions seldom build a monolithic block of code for a computing solution. So, deploying an environment designed to virtualize the functions of these applications and to implement high availability and reliability is no longer in favor. " translation ... we cannot duplicate the features of VMS so we cannot offer high availability and reliability ... if you want that, you have to use VMS ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 07:27:04 +0000 (UTC) From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Re: To re-link or not to re-link for VMS upgrade (Post contains short and long v Message-ID: In article <1178217053.573128.239990@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: >Seeking advice on whether or not to re-link my app's executables for >VMS upgrade from VAX/VMS V6.1 to V6.2: > >Short version: > >I have an application written in DEC Pascal V5.1-22 (except for the >"message manager" which is written in VAX macro). It has approx. 160 >executables that run on a VMS V6.1 system (the market system) which >were built on another VMS V6.1 system (the development system). There >are also non-clustered "update nodes" running either VMS V6.1 or >V6.2. These update systems have copies of five of the executables >which establish DECnet links among themselves and to the app running >on the market system. Users connect to the update nodes from a VB app >running on a Windows PC using TCP. All this currently works fine in >production and I have the app set up on a test system running VMS V6.2 >and it seems to run fine. > >I'd like to upgrade the market system to VMS V6.2. To re-link or not >to re-link (on a VMS V6.2 system)? That is the question and why. What >are the risks involved for each alternative? (I'm already in the >process of upgrading the V6.1 update nodes to V6.2 because I know for >certain that the five app executables run fine on VMS V6.2.) From 6.1 to 6.2 there is no need to relink. Usually relinking is only necessary if you use shared images or if there are major changes in run-time libraries. The latter is usually stated in the release-notes together with the recommendation to relink. Regards, Christoph Gartmann -- Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452 Immunbiologie Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de D-79011 Freiburg, Germany http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 07:55:20 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: To re-link or not to re-link for VMS upgrade (Post contains short and long v Message-ID: "Christoph Gartmann" wrote in message news:f1en88$aur$2@news.BelWue.DE... > In article <1178217053.573128.239990@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF > writes: > >>Seeking advice on whether or not to re-link my app's executables for >>VMS upgrade from VAX/VMS V6.1 to V6.2: >> >>Short version: >> >>I have an application written in DEC Pascal V5.1-22 (except for the >>"message manager" which is written in VAX macro). It has approx. 160 >>executables that run on a VMS V6.1 system (the market system) which >>were built on another VMS V6.1 system (the development system). There >>are also non-clustered "update nodes" running either VMS V6.1 or >>V6.2. These update systems have copies of five of the executables >>which establish DECnet links among themselves and to the app running >>on the market system. Users connect to the update nodes from a VB app >>running on a Windows PC using TCP. All this currently works fine in >>production and I have the app set up on a test system running VMS V6.2 >>and it seems to run fine. >> >>I'd like to upgrade the market system to VMS V6.2. To re-link or not >>to re-link (on a VMS V6.2 system)? That is the question and why. What >>are the risks involved for each alternative? (I'm already in the >>process of upgrading the V6.1 update nodes to V6.2 because I know for >>certain that the five app executables run fine on VMS V6.2.) > > From 6.1 to 6.2 there is no need to relink. Usually relinking is only > necessary > if you use shared images or if there are major changes in run-time > libraries. > The latter is usually stated in the release-notes together with the > recommendation to relink. > Actually, unless someone does something stupid - shared images provide you the ability to not need to relink. Unless your code includes privleged images (drivers, etc) - user applications in general should not need to be relinked. When the privleged architecture changes in a non-transparent way - the major version number of the OS will change. So a move from V6.x to V6.x+1 should not require a recompile or relink. But a change from V6.x to V7.x or V8.x often will (in this case actually will). But pure user application code should still work. An Alpha V6.2 user program should just "run" on V8.3. Of course, nothing is perfect - including user code - so you always need to verify it especially when crossing major version boundries. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.244 ************************