INFO-VAX Thu, 17 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 270 Contents: bug in SSH? Re: bug in SSH? Re: bug in SSH? Re: bug in SSH? Re: bug in SSH? Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Re: How to have the exact DCPS version number Re: IP Clusters and security Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Re: Microsoft home server Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22 M Re: OT: Logikal Solutions Announces Logic Book Re: OT:[Humor] Top Ten Signs You Need to Spend More Time Away From Your Desk OT:[Humor] Top Ten Signs You Need to Spend More Time Away From Your Desk DeskDes Re: Paging Brian Roth Re: Paging Brian Roth Re: Paging Brian Roth Re: Paging Brian Roth Re: Paging Brian Roth Re: Paging Brian Roth Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) VMSMail notification message Re: VMSMail notification message Re: VMSMail notification message Re: VMSMail notification message [OT] Re: Has Linux Peaked ? [OT] Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Re: [OT] Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? he ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:21:04 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: bug in SSH? Message-ID: SSH Secure Shell OpenVMS (V5.5) 3.2.0 TCPIP 5.4 ECO 5 VMS 7.3-2 When logging in via SSH, as opposed to telnet, I see the line @DISK$:[DIR]ANNOUNCE.TXT printed on the screen, instead of the contents of DISK$:[DIR]ANNOUNCE.TXT itself. Is this a bug in SSH? ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 13:11:05 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: bug in SSH? Message-ID: <464c5469$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >SSH Secure Shell OpenVMS (V5.5) 3.2.0 > >TCPIP 5.4 ECO 5 > >VMS 7.3-2 VMS V8.3 with TCPIP V5.6 is current. But you know this and it also makes no difference (SSH-2.0-3.2.0 SSH Secure Shell OpenVMS V5.6 VMS_sftp_version 2). >When logging in via SSH, as opposed to telnet, I see the line > > @DISK$:[DIR]ANNOUNCE.TXT > >printed on the screen, instead of the contents of >DISK$:[DIR]ANNOUNCE.TXT itself. Is this a bug in SSH? Yup. A bug (or a missing feature or whatever you like to call it) since day 1. You also don't get a welcome message, neither SYS$WELCOME nor the default msg. (btw. TCPware SSH does it different/better, there you get the announcement, and yes, the content, between the username and the password prompt, and after successfull authentication you get the SYS$WELCOME like in plain VMS) And it is not the only bug. TCPIP SSH still lacks a lot of VMS specialities (like not requiring /NETWORK for login or being able to run SHUTDOWN.COM and a documented/supported method of not allowing SCP/SFTP with SSH also, ...) cause of the common source pool with the (already murdered) Tru64. -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 07:59:46 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: Re: bug in SSH? Message-ID: <1179413986.022683.14930@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> no its a feature :-) To get a message displayed on login you need to specify the file to be displayed in the ssh config ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:06:51 -0400 From: Chuck Aaron Subject: Re: bug in SSH? Message-ID: There's a memory leak as well with SFTP. HP Engineering has it to work on. Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: > In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > >> SSH Secure Shell OpenVMS (V5.5) 3.2.0 >> >> TCPIP 5.4 ECO 5 >> >> VMS 7.3-2 >> > > VMS V8.3 with TCPIP V5.6 is current. But you know this and it also makes no > difference (SSH-2.0-3.2.0 SSH Secure Shell OpenVMS V5.6 VMS_sftp_version 2). > > >> When logging in via SSH, as opposed to telnet, I see the line >> >> @DISK$:[DIR]ANNOUNCE.TXT >> >> printed on the screen, instead of the contents of >> DISK$:[DIR]ANNOUNCE.TXT itself. Is this a bug in SSH? >> > > Yup. A bug (or a missing feature or whatever you like to call it) since day 1. > You also don't get a welcome message, neither SYS$WELCOME nor the default msg. > (btw. TCPware SSH does it different/better, there you get the announcement, > and yes, the content, between the username and the password prompt, and > after successfull authentication you get the SYS$WELCOME like in plain VMS) > > And it is not the only bug. TCPIP SSH still lacks a lot of VMS specialities > (like not requiring /NETWORK for login or being able to run SHUTDOWN.COM and > a documented/supported method of not allowing SCP/SFTP with SSH also, ...) > cause of the common source pool with the (already murdered) Tru64. > > ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 09:50:38 -0700 From: daryljones@att.net Subject: Re: bug in SSH? Message-ID: <1179420638.595915.213890@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On May 17, 12:21 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > SSH Secure Shell OpenVMS (V5.5) 3.2.0 > > TCPIP 5.4 ECO 5 > > VMS 7.3-2 > > When logging in via SSH, as opposed to telnet, I see the line > > @DISK$:[DIR]ANNOUNCE.TXT > > printed on the screen, instead of the contents of > DISK$:[DIR]ANNOUNCE.TXT itself. Is this a bug in SSH? Phillip, Source: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/DOC/83final/tcprn/TCPIP_V56_REL_NOTES.PDF 3=2E12.8 SSH Messages This section includes notes and restrictions pertaining to SSH session messages. =B7 Normally, the translation of the system logical name SYS$ANNOUNCE is displayed after authentication is complete. In this version of SSH, no automated mechanism exists for displaying this text as a prelogin banner. To provide a prelogin banner from a text file, create the file SSH_BANNER_MESSAGE. containing the text to be displayed before login. To enter multiple lines in the banner text, make sure each line ends with an explicit carriage-return character except the last line. Save the banner message file in the TCPIP$SSH_DEVICE:[TCPIP$SSH.SSH2] directory, with privileges that allow it to be read by the user account [TCPIP$SSH]. If you do not use the default file name and location for the message banner file, define them using the BannerMessageFile option in the TCPIP$SSH_DEVICE:[TCPIP$SSH.SSH2]SSHD2_CONFIG. file. Specify the location and file name of your banner message file as the argument to the option using one of the following formats: BannerMessageFile TCPIP$SSH_DEVICE:[TCPIP$SSH]BANNER1.TXT BannerMessageFile /TCPIP$SSH_DEVICE/TCPIP$SSH/BANNER2.TXT BannerMessageFile /etc/banner3.txt Note that the argument may be in either OpenVMS or UNIX format and is not case sensitive. (If multiple definitions for the same option are included in the configuration file, the last one listed will take effect.) I hope this helps. Daryl Jones ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 03:41:48 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Message-ID: <1179398508.258913.188850@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 9 May, 05:51, "Richard Maher" wrote: > "Neil Rieck" wrote in message > > news:463cff5d$0$16405$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... > > > > > I am still committed to OpenVMS and think it is the best OS in the world > so > > please don't take the following remarks out of context. My main intention > of > > this is to show how Sun is using their software to leverage hardware > sales. > > You can decide for yourself if OpenVMS is being promoted properly by HP. > > > ### > > > Two weeks ago a co-worker sent me this link: > >http://www.sun.com/playtempleofthesun > > It is an "Indiana Jones" style game targeted at C/C++ developers. I'm not > > sure why Sun would market a product in this way. Maybe this is a social > > experiment or maybe the "game theme" was designed to keep old farts like > me > > out of it but obviously Sun underestimated my level of immaturity. So I > > spent 15 minutes going through the six levels, answering a C/C++ > programming > > question at the end of each one, which then qualified me to receive a free > > DVD containing a pre-release of Solaris-11 along with their IDE named "Sun > > Studio 11". The DVD was delivered to my inbox within 48 hours so I took it > > home since I was just starting a week of vacations and had nowhere to go. > > > I had recently taken possession of a Compaq Presario (SR2044NX) with a > > dual-core Pentium-D CPU running 2.8 GHz with 1 GB of RAM etc. Since this > > thing already had a second 200 GB hard drive it was no big deal for me to > > just boot the Sun DVD and install Solaris on the second drive. This thing > > auto-installed itself easier than Windows and everything worked properly > > except the embedded sound chip (I Googled up a third party driver and was > up > > in no time). Even both cores were enabled and active. > > > If you log into Solaris using the Gnome desktop you'll find that all the > > familiar apps are present including one called "Network Servers" which > will > > allow you to access shared folders on your windows machines. Bringing up > > Firefox for the first time will display "Sun's Developer Guide" which > > includes local links to videos like: "Getting acquainted with Solaris > > basics", "Learn about Solaris software", "Learn about Sun Studio > software", > > "Learn about NetBeans", etc. > > > Bringing up "Sun Studio 11" for the first time will remind you of > > Microsoft's Visual Studio but they have provided three of their own > > compliers: C, C++, and Fortran. I tested them all, they all work. There > are > > lots of tutorials on how to auto-make applications generating code for > both > > SPARC and x86-64 platforms. (it now just realized that I'm running a > 64-bit > > version of Solaris on this Presario). Although Sun compilers are run by > > default, the make files allow you to optionally choose GNU compilers. > > Solaris code is generated by default but the make files allow you to > > optionally generate code for Linux. > > > This IDE contains lots of built-in tutorials but it doesn't take too long > to > > fix the broken programs and get them working. Once you are at this level > > they want you to restart your saved game and answer question at the last > > level (you are given some strange looking "C" code which you must paste > into > > your IDE, then compile and run. You now copy the program's output and > paste > > it back into the game in order to be eligible for some kind of cash draw. > > > ### > > > Obviously Sun is targeting this product at a younger audience but those > > people are going to be the developers of the future. During all this I > kept > > asking myself "what is HP doing to promote OpenVMS?" > > > Neil Rieck > > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > > Ontario, Canada. > >http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ > > Hi Neil, > > In defense of VMS Engineering, I'd just like to say: - > "We invested a lot of time and energy into creating something better than > VMSINSTAL." > > As for all this "auto-installing" stuff, just ask yourself if most SUN and > Windows developers aren't kicking themselves that they don't have PCSI :-) > > On a serious note though, I just wish VMS Engineering would stop trying to > "replicate" what SUN or Microsoft or Whoever are doing and instead tried > harder to "integrate" these outstanding products with VMS's strengths. I > mean how many IDEs do you need on VMS for Java if everyone is using their > favourite IDE on their favourite platform and, at best, just shipping the > JAR or CLASS files to the VMS/JVM for execution? Rather than playing > perennial catchup, shouldn't HP be applauding SUN's efforts and then saying > that we can make it more resilient (if not run faster) on VMS? Take > Solaris/Java, Linux/Java, Windows/.NET - Surely VMS should embrace them all > as potential front-end solutions? (And, most importantly, stop diverting > precious resources into competing with them?) > > Me? I like VMS! I revel in it's existing and rich development environment. I > love its clustering and reliability, its Run-Time Libraries and language > neutral environment. I love its Lock Manager and its 4 Processor Modes; yes > its beauty and its terror; the wide-brown land for me! > > Cheers Richard Maher > > PS. Have I missed something and everybody thinks VMS now has a place back on > the desktop workstation market? Maybe we should start manufacturing VTxxx > again? NintendoVMSboy? VBox? Satirically, that Linux penguin with > diving-flippers and a strapped-on rubber bill is looking more and more like > logo material :-( VMStunes with Itanium inside? (Could be a bit bigger than > the Apple one) Who needs a rudder eh? Let's just keep "saling" around out > here and see what happens. There is one area where VMS engineering should look very closely at what Sun are doing and possibly replicate it and that is using engineers as undercover marketeers. Sun's lead engineers are very active bloggers and contributors to newsgroups and other online forums. Many of their DE's have blogs at blogs.sun.com. This plus their online presence in other forums has had a significant impact on the technical communities view of Solaris. Dtrace is a great example, it is the cool technology that everyone else is either scrambling to port or scrambling to imitate and that is in no small part down to the online efforts of its developers notably Bryan Cantrill and Mike Shapiro who have been ferocious when confronted with people advocating Dtrace imitations. Its one thing having a discussion with a marketing guy in a newsgroup about the relative merits of your approach vs theirs it is another having the same discussion with the engineer who designed and wrote the competing product. RedHat for example mounted an online campaign against Dtrace which was largely obliterated by having its claims forensically dissected by Sun's Dtrace team. Regards Andrew Harrison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:35:34 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: How to have the exact DCPS version number Message-ID: In article <464b7c86@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: > I do not run DCPS$STARTUP.COM (as you probably still know - I told it > more than once that I don't like to INIT a queue with every boot, I > only define the DCPS$ logicals and obviously not all ;-) Have you tried running DCPS$STARTUP in "setup" mode? We introduced it in V2.2 for customers like you who felt DCPS$STARTUP took too long to run due to all the INITIALIZE /QUEUE commands. Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 07:56:32 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: IP Clusters and security Message-ID: In article , Stephen Hoffman writes: > JF Mezei wrote: > >> Right now, clusters are protected by physical boundary of an ethernet >> and physical cables to disk drives. > > All unencrypted traffic. Not just that of the cluster. > So maybe we need to run SCS over IP over SSH. Maybe non-trivial (ftp over SSH is sufficiently non-trivial to require its own client), but sounds do-able. The real questions are what will be supported (tested by HP) and what will we find in the field we can actually get away with (unsupported). I don't think T1 was ever a supported transport for LAVC (I think the slowest supported transport was 10Mb ethernet), but I still remember the day I ran LAVC over a laser based T1 link between two buildings and realized that I'd loose quorum if it started snowing hard enough. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:58:05 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Message-ID: <464bfd06$0$323$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> > Very cool, I'm curious, does the virtual tape support include compatibility > with any of the existing formats for tape images? The key one that would > likely be of interest to myself is TPC compatibility, however, I could see > others being interested in compatibility with the SIMH Virtual Tape format. No, it has a private format due to lack of standards. But it is flexible and could be changed in the future if needed. > The other question that comes to mind is will this work if the Virtual Tape > file is located on a Unix NFS server? Yes, no problem. Jur. healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> wrote: >> LDdriver V9.0 has just been released, it includes virtual tape support. > >> Enjoy! > >> http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html > > Very cool, I'm curious, does the virtual tape support include compatibility > with any of the existing formats for tape images? The key one that would > likely be of interest to myself is TPC compatibility, however, I could see > others being interested in compatibility with the SIMH Virtual Tape format. > > The other question that comes to mind is will this work if the Virtual Tape > file is located on a Unix NFS server? > > Zane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 03:02:31 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Message-ID: <3eac0$464bfe25$cef8887a$25197@TEKSAVVY.COM> Jur van der Burg wrote: >>> http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html Will this zap my disks again ? :-) :-) Has there been a decision on whether VMS will now be distributed with your updated driver, or is VMS stuck with the last driver that was available while you were still working for them ? In other words, must we now download/install the driver from your site, or can we expect the driver to still be included with VMS ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:58:57 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Message-ID: <464bfd3a$0$323$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> > Super! Now, If only I knew how to write the emulation so a VMS machine could act > as a Virtual Tape Library... Library support is being worked on. Probably in the next version. Jur. David J Dachtera wrote: > Jur van der Burg wrote: >> LDdriver V9.0 has just been released, it includes virtual tape support. >> >> Enjoy! >> >> http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html >> >> Jur van der Burg. > > Super! Now, If only I knew how to write the emulation so a VMS machine could act > as a Virtual Tape Library... > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:56:37 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Message-ID: <464c18ce$0$328$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> > Will this zap my disks again ? :-) :-) Sure, with LBN mode and some privs and someone who does not know what he's doing it's easy to zap disks :-) Be assured that the bug you ran into is also fixed in V9.0. No guarantee that there's no other bug lurking of course, it's software after all..... > Has there been a decision on whether VMS will now be distributed with > your updated driver, or is VMS stuck with the last driver that was > available while you were still working for them ? I think VMS will be stuck. HP has hardly any interest in VMS anymore, and updating the driver on the masterpack needs someone to be responsible for that, and since I don't work for HP anymore it's unlikely that it will be done. > In other words, must we now download/install the driver from your site, > or can we expect the driver to still be included with VMS ? Downloading from my site is the safest bet. I'm also way faster with support than HP will ever be. Jur. JF Mezei wrote: > Jur van der Burg wrote: >>>> http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html > > Will this zap my disks again ? :-) :-) > > Has there been a decision on whether VMS will now be distributed with > your updated driver, or is VMS stuck with the last driver that was > available while you were still working for them ? > > In other words, must we now download/install the driver from your site, > or can we expect the driver to still be included with VMS ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:52:59 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Message-ID: In article <464c18ce$0$328$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> wrote: > ...updating the driver on the masterpack needs someone to be > responsible for that, and since I don't work for HP anymore it's > unlikely that it will be done. I just spoke with the project leader for the next release of OpenVMS, V8.3-1H1, and we do have interest in updating LDdriver in OpenVMS. Because that version is so close to release, the new LDdriver probably won't make it there but probably wind up in V8.4. As you pointed out, since your release schedule is more flexible than ours, you'll usually have newer versions on your site than are distributed with OpenVMS. Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:17:18 -0400 From: Dave Greenwood Subject: Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Message-ID: Jur van der Burg wrote: > LDdriver V9.0 has just been released, it includes virtual tape support. > > Enjoy! > > http://www.digiater.nl/lddriver.html This is my first experience with LDdriver. Can it be served to other members of the cluster? I got a "SET-E-INVDEV, device is invalid for requested operation" error when I tried SET DEV/SERVED LDA1:. Thanks, Dave -- Dave Greenwood Email: GreenwoodDE@ornl.gov Oak Ridge National Lab %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:39:23 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: LDdriver V9.0 has been released. Message-ID: <47aa1$464c936a$cef8887a$25342@TEKSAVVY.COM> Dave Greenwood wrote: > This is my first experience with LDdriver. Can it be served to other > members of the cluster? I got a "SET-E-INVDEV, device is invalid for > requested operation" error when I tried SET DEV/SERVED LDA1:. I agree. Having the abillity to serve LD drives would be very nice. Is it architecturally possible to do this ? (This would allow one to satellite boot a node from the contents of a CD mounted as a LDA device to perform some install etc). Right now, one needs to have a physical disk available to load the CD contents so that it can be served to other nodes in the cluster. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:04:05 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Microsoft home server Message-ID: <464c0b5c$0$21931$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Tom Linden wrote: > Sounds like shadowing > > http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199600702 > > EE Times: Latest News > Microsoft rallies partners around home server > > > Rick Merritt > EE Times > (05/15/2007 11:02 PM EDT) > > LOS ANGELES - Microsoft Corp. has released more details on its plans > to enable a new class of home servers starting this fall. The company > disclosed the basic hardware requirements, demoed software features > and announced partners who plan to roll out systems and supporting > software. > The Windows Home Server is essentially a four-drive consumer array of > hard disks. It aims to help home users backup, manage and remotely > access storage over a home network. > > The server can restore any drive on the network that fails. A > management console lets users control access to various systems, > files and features or access data or media stored on a remote system. > > To save costs the system does not implement the RAID array popular in > servers. Instead it uses technology developed by a small Microsoft > incubator company that ensures all data on a home network is stored > on at least two independent drives. > > "If you lose one drive, there's no problem. If you lose two, you are > probably OK," said a Microsoft developer demonstrating the software > on the show floor at the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference > (WinHEC) here. > The home server requires a gigahertz-class processor and what's seen > as a fairly heady 512 Mbytes DRAM. It has four USB ports and a > built-in Gbit Ethernet port for linking to a home network. > > Microsoft wants the box act as a "headless" server and deliver media > without glitches. Thus it forbids OEMs from building in Wi-Fi or any > kind wireless communication. Microsoft also prohibits a keyboard, > mouse, serial or parallel ports or an optical drive. > > Microsoft initially wanted a USB controller for each of the systems > four ports, but backed down in the face of OEM concerns about hitting > the lowest possible cost for the systems. In terms of noise, the > software giant has specified the systems should generate no more than > 30 dB. > "A lot of folks are a little concerned about hitting that," said Scot > Schulte, a senior director of corporate R&D in the consumer group at > Inventec, a Taiwan-based systems maker who displayed on the show > floor two versions of such servers geared for OEM buyers. > > Inventec will supply versions of its systems using both AMD desktop > and notebook processors to determine what mix of low cost, noise and > power consumption is of most interest to OEMs. AMD is delivering a > reference design named Churchill for the home server, courting a > broad group of companies including small system integrators. > > Some 60,000 people are already acting as testers for the software > which is in a beta version 2 release. Microsoft first announced the > concept of a Windows Home Server at the Consumer Electronics Show, > saying it was working with Hewlett-Packard on the system. > > At WinHEC, Microsoft revealed it is now working with as many as 40 > additional partners on the home server including Gateway Inc., LaCie > and Medion International. At least eight companies said they will > deliver applications for the Windows Home Server. > > The home server aims to complement features in Windows Vista that > makes it easier to set up a home network. Microsoft is courting > consumer electronics companies to get them to support its so-called > Rally software in Vista to make it easier to recognize their systems > on a PC home network. > Vista "is going to drive innovation in peripherals," said Microsoft > chairman Bill Gates in a keynote here Tuesday (May 15). "As of last > week we've sold 40 million copies of Vista since the release about > 100 days ago. That's twice as fast as our last major release, XP," > Gates said. lol - "sold" is bordering on an untruth - I think "jammed" would be a better word - it's hard to buy something new without getting Vista shoved down your throat. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:25:50 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 Message-ID: <8660a3a10705141525t1a884c9dn52100a75009ac0b8@mail.gmail.com> On 5/14/07, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <8660a3a10705140349l32fdc795xefa14e720427dd96@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" writes: > >On 5/11/07, Doug Kimball wrote: > >> Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very helpful! > >> > >> And the winners are: > >> > >> 1) Blade Runner - the top vote-getter, and why not? A sci-fi classic. > >> > >> Tied for second (or is that third?): > >> > >> 2.5) Sneakers > >> 2.5) Galaxy Quest > >> > >> If you'd like the chance to win one of these movies or a DVD player to play > >> them on, come to the HP Partners' Roundhouse on Tuesday, May 22 from 6 pm to > >> 9 pm at the Sheraton in Nashua, stop by the Software Partners' table, and > >> drop off your business card. > >> > >> And remember, > >> > >> "I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved > >> life more than he ever had before. Not just his life, anybody's life, my > >> life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I > >> come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit > >> there and watch him die." > >> > >> "But the key meeting took place July 3rd, 1958, when the Air Force brought > >> the space visitor to the White House for an interview with President > >> Eisenhower. And Ike said, 'Hey look, give us your technology, we'll give you > >> all the cow lips you want.'" > >> > >> "Quellek... by Grabthar's hammer... by the Sons of Warvan... you shall be... > >> avenged." > >> > >> Doug > >> > >> -- > >> Doug Kimball > >> Manager, Sales and Support > >> Software Partners, Inc. > >> 978-887-6409 > >> tech_support@softwarepartners.com > >> www.softwarepartners.com > >> > >> > >> > >I'm not so sure that Blade Runner is such a good selection. > >Remember, OpenVMS turns 30 this year... > > > Are you perhaps confusing Blade Runner with Logan's Run ? > In Logan's Run on your 30th birthday you had to participate in Carousal > where you would supposedly be "renewed". > > Although the replicants in Blade Runner have a limited lifespan I can't recall > that being specified as 30 years (indeed I think it was more like a 4 year > lifespan). > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > > > > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > > > >WWWebb > Indeed I did confuse the two. I was thinking of Logan's Run. WWWebb ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 14:00:45 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: Movie Promo for HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua on Tuesday, May 22 May 22 M Message-ID: Paul Repacholi wrote in news:877ir8hhtj.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com: > DeanW writes: > >> How "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" got retitled "Blade >> Runner" has always confused me. > > It didn't. ADES was the basis for the screen play and also the novel > Blade Runner by Jetter(?) He also did Replicant Night and Edge of Human > as follow ons. Yup, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._W._Jeter If I recall correctly (this time) Jeter dropped PKD's "Mercerism" in the two follow-on stories. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 02:02:07 -0700 From: Dave Gullen Subject: Re: OT: Logikal Solutions Announces Logic Book Message-ID: <1179392527.533242.115810@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On May 16, 12:52 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1179304557.280485.85...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > Dave Gullen writes: > > > Perhaps we're all forgetting how slow things could be in the past, > > booking cpu time, being charged for it, overnight compilations, trying > > to do everything on one VT52 screen instead of all the nice Telnet > > windows we now have, working within disk quotas etc etc, maybe even > > working with punch-cards and teletypes. All emphasising the need to > > get it right first time, hence the need for a lot of off-line and up- > > front design. > > Oh, right, no reason to get it right the first time. Tell me > again that it is the fault of the C language that we have all > this crap software floating around? Can you imagine if Boeing > took that attitude to engineering? "Don't worry about getting > it right the first time, just get it in the air and let's see > what happens!" > > Is it any wonder that some places (like Pennsylvania) refuse to > let software people use the term "Engineer" to describe themselves? > > > > > So I think there's an element of truth in saying mcuh of the old ways > > are not needed. That said, any coding I do these days still starts > > with some written design, not very formal, but it is there. > > > I never had any 'proper' IT training, > > Yeah, that's rather obvious from your statements above. But don't > feel bad, the academic world has caught up to you. :-) > > > it was all apprentice-style, > > looking over shoulders an sitting next to people. I had my chance. > > Back in 1978 at Uni, studying to be a Plant Biologist, I chose geology > > over computing as my second subject thinking 'I will probably never > > use one.' Make God laugh by telling him your plans, as they say. Now > > my son is doing his finals in an IT and AI course. He's been pretty > > surprised about how many of his fellow students have no idea about > > modular coding and other skills, struggling with the great monolithic > > things they've written on the fly. > > And you still stick to the idea that design before coding is "not > necessary"? I really need to get back into the programming game. > Seems like the majority today offer no competition. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include That's what I love about this group - the reasoned argument. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:18:43 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT:[Humor] Top Ten Signs You Need to Spend More Time Away From Your Desk Message-ID: <00A67BE4.725F0459@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <134o6nes6urng0b@corp.supernews.com>, Phaeton writes: > > >Number 10: >"Exercise" has come to mean rolling your neck and focusing your eyes on >distant objects. > >Number 9: >Strange discolourations have appeared where your arms rest on your chair and desk. > >Number 8: >Friends no longer bother calling your mobile, they skype you. > >Number 7: >You have RSI in BOTH arms. I didn't know what RSI meant so I googled it. Google/wiki came up with Repetitive strain injury. Sadly, the description of RSI seems to fit a pain I have had for the past year in my neck and shoulder. I guess it's time to see YAD (yet another doctor). -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:06:07 +1000 From: Phaeton Subject: OT:[Humor] Top Ten Signs You Need to Spend More Time Away From Your Desk DeskDes Message-ID: <134o6nes6urng0b@corp.supernews.com> Number 10: "Exercise" has come to mean rolling your neck and focusing your eyes on distant objects. Number 9: Strange discolourations have appeared where your arms rest on your chair and desk. Number 8: Friends no longer bother calling your mobile, they skype you. Number 7: You have RSI in BOTH arms. Number 6: You spend more hours in your desk chair than not - this has resulted in a posture that resembles early humans. Number 5: When you've finished a long day of work you: watch TV on your computer, play Second Life or read your favourite blogs. Number 4: You fear taking a day off because you might fall behind with your list of daily RSS reads. Number 3: You wake up in the night from dreams where you were using your computer to do the same tasks you do when you are awake. Number 2: After switching desktop backgrounds, you have been heard to remark "A change is as good as a holiday" ( no, no it isn't. ) And the number one sign you need to spend more time away from your desk : You no longer like meals that require both a knife and fork because then you can't use your mouse while eating ! Article from: http://freelanceswitch.com/humour/top-ten-signs-you-need-to-spend-more-time-away-from-your-desk/ Cheers, Csaba :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| http://accounts.zotspot.com/?source=10965&m=l ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler. ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 01:53:54 -0700 From: Dave Gullen Subject: Re: Paging Brian Roth Message-ID: <1179392034.165255.172710@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Out of interest, are you still allowed to dump computer kit into landfill over your side of the pond? ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 10:50:13 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Paging Brian Roth Message-ID: <5b2qb5F2qhs74U1@mid.individual.net> In article <1179392034.165255.172710@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Dave Gullen writes: > Out of interest, are you still allowed to dump computer kit into > landfill over your side of the pond? I would imagine in many places yes and in many others no, I use the term euphemistically. I push the stuff to a central place outside the maintenance offcie for my building and the guys from physical plant take it away. I am not sure what they actually do with it, but the action is non-reversable. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:04:07 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Paging Brian Roth Message-ID: <464C52C7.4090500@comcast.net> Dave Gullen wrote: > Out of interest, are you still allowed to dump computer kit into > landfill over your side of the pond? > > > Yes and no. Medium to large companies are required to dispose of old computers and monitors in an environmentally sound way. Individuals are not. When I was working, we gave obsolete computers to employees who wanted them. We also had a huge cardboard box called, I believe, a "Gaylord". It was about 5'x5'x5' and we chucked the dead monitors and the computers we couldn't give away into the Gaylord. When it was full we paid someone to haul it away. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:17:41 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Paging Brian Roth Message-ID: In article <464B9220.216AD4C9@spam.comcast.net>, djesys.no@spam.comcast.net says... > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > Sorry to disturb the group, but emails to Brian don't seem to > > be getting there for some reason. Brian was the one coming for > > another of the VAX 7000's but he didn't show up this weekend and > > I can't seem to contact him. And all this stuff is getting closer > > to the landfill every day. > > Does the floor tilt toward the landfill? > > Does the building vibrate causing things to slide in that direction? > > Bill is in Scranton... Check out coal mine fires. :-( -- John ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 13:45:06 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Paging Brian Roth Message-ID: <5b34j2F2q8givU1@mid.individual.net> In article , John Santos writes: > In article <464B9220.216AD4C9@spam.comcast.net>, > djesys.no@spam.comcast.net says... >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> > >> > Sorry to disturb the group, but emails to Brian don't seem to >> > be getting there for some reason. Brian was the one coming for >> > another of the VAX 7000's but he didn't show up this weekend and >> > I can't seem to contact him. And all this stuff is getting closer >> > to the landfill every day. >> >> Does the floor tilt toward the landfill? >> >> Does the building vibrate causing things to slide in that direction? >> >> > > Bill is in Scranton... Check out coal mine fires. :-( We have subsidences in Scranton, but no fires. You must have us confused with Centralia and Laurel Run. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 11:47:13 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Paging Brian Roth Message-ID: In article <464C52C7.4090500@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > Yes and no. Medium to large companies are required to dispose of old > computers and monitors in an environmentally sound way. Individuals are > not. When I was working, we gave obsolete computers to employees who > wanted them. We also had a huge cardboard box called, I believe, a > "Gaylord". It was about 5'x5'x5' and we chucked the dead monitors and > the computers we couldn't give away into the Gaylord. When it was full > we paid someone to haul it away. That depends on location. Here individuals are required to dispose of old computers at the computer recycling station at the dump. I suspect in Wyoming such requirements are not yet needed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:08:51 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) Message-ID: <00A67BE3.11A55427@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > >Hi Brian, >> >> I have just IO$_ACPCONTROL and I am getting back a SIN6$ structure without >> the use of the IO$M_EXTEND modifier bit. > >Are you able to show the $qio and the declaration/values of the parameters >you're passing in? Here you go. Real simple and in MACRO so everyone can try it. $ASSIGN a CHANnel to some BG device in a connection. You'll need, at a minimum, SHARE privilege to $ASSIGN to the bg device. $EFNDEF $IODEF .PSECT DATA,WRT,NOEXE,5 PEER: .WORD 4*8,0 .ADDRESS P_ADR .ADDRESS P_LEN .LONG 0 P_LEN: .LONG 0 P_ADR: .LONG 0[8] IOSB: .LONG 0[2] CHAN: .LONG 0 BGDEV: .ASCID "_bg1234:" ; <== edit to contain some existing bg .PSECT CODE,NOWRT,EXE,5 .ENTRY GO,0 $ASSIGN_S DEVNAM = BGDEV,- CHAN = CHAN BLBS R0,10$ RET 10$: MOVAB PEER,R0 $QIOW_S EFN = #EFN$C_ENF,- CHAN = CHAN,- FUNC = #IO$_SENSEMODE,- IOSB = IOSB,- P4 = R0 NOP ; here examine P_LEN and P_ADR in debug RET .END GO in debug: DBG>DBG> EXAMINE P_LEN .MAIN.\P_LEN: 0000001C < SIN6$K_LENGTH DBG> EXAMINE P_ADR .MAIN.\P_ADR[0:7] [0]: 97C0001A < upper word will be socket # [1]-[3]: 00000000 [4]: 0FFFF0000 [5]: 0FC02A8C0 < will contain your peers adr [6]-[7]: 00000000 -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:11:12 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) Message-ID: <00A67BE3.65BC8D18@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "John Gemignani, Jr." writes: > > > > wrote in message >news:00A67B09.4FAB7135@SendSpamHere.ORG... >> In article , "John Gemignani, >> Jr." writes: >>> >>> >>> >>> wrote in message >>>news:00A67A7C.E34FD775@SendSpamHere.ORG... >>>> In article <00A67A68.F7818E9B@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- >>>> @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>>>>{...snip...} >>>> >>>> A little more info... the socket name structures are documented on >>>> section >>>> 5.5 of >>>> the HP TCPIP Services "Sockets API and System Services Programming"; >>>> particularly >>>> in figures 5.8, 5.9 and 5.10. >>>> >>>> When using the IO$_SENSEMODE, is there anyway to enforce one format over >>>> another? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker >>>> VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >>>> >>>> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >>> >>>I coded up the QIO interface when TCPIP added support for IPv6. This >>>required the BSD 4.4 interface which included the new length field. To use >>>the BSD 4.4 interface (SIN44$), you need to set a special bit in the QIO >>>modifiers. I think it was something like the IO$M_EXTEND bit. Otherwise a >>>BSD 4.3 block (SIN$) is returned. >> >> I have just IO$_ACPCONTROL and I am getting back a SIN6$ structure without >> the use of the IO$M_EXTEND modifier bit. > > So then, you're NOT using IO$_SENSEMODE as you stated in your original >question. > If you're using IO$_ACPCONTROL, are you asking the ACP to perform name >translation? > From what I recall, that was an undocumented interface (but I could be >wrong). Sorry, it is IO$_SENSEMODE... not IO$_ACPCONTROL. I just posted a simple bit of code. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 08:00:06 -0700 From: BaxterD@tessco.com Subject: VMSMail notification message Message-ID: <1179414006.076557.80560@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> I know this is a very simple problem, but how do I suppress the "new mail" messages which are being displayed on the terminal?? e.g. New mail on node XXXXXX from XXXXXX::NIGHTEND (09:47:55) thanks Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:10:16 +0100 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: VMSMail notification message Message-ID: BaxterD@tessco.com wrote: > I know this is a very simple problem, but how do I suppress the > "new mail" messages which are being displayed on the terminal?? > > e.g. New mail on node XXXXXX from XXXXXX::NIGHTEND (09:47:55) $ Set Broadcast=NoMail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:15:45 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: VMSMail notification message Message-ID: <07051710154594_202002DA@antinode.org> From: BaxterD@tessco.com > I know this is a very simple problem, but how do I suppress the > "new mail" messages which are being displayed on the terminal?? > > e.g. New mail on node XXXXXX from XXXXXX::NIGHTEND (09:47:55) You mean like "SET BROADCAST = [NO]MAIL"? "HELP SET BROADCAST". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 11:54:36 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: VMSMail notification message Message-ID: In article <1179414006.076557.80560@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, BaxterD@tessco.com writes: > I know this is a very simple problem, but how do I suppress the > "new mail" messages which are being displayed on the terminal?? > > e.g. New mail on node XXXXXX from XXXXXX::NIGHTEND (09:47:55) > 1) get people to stop sending you email 2) get the system manager to set your account "dismail" 3) change your terminal settings as specified in "help set terminal" (but then you also won't get system shutdown warnings and such) If you have a problem with these being displayed while in an editor or such, the VMS convention is that control-W redraws the screen. If you have an application that is not obeying this it may have a different convention, or you might ask for it to be fixed. ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 13:11:58 GMT From: Doc Subject: [OT] Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Message-ID: Dave Froble wrote in news:svudndAXVrTqCNbbnZ2dnUVZ_v7inZ2d@libcom.com: > genius@marblecliff.com wrote: > >> hey Dic, > > Episode V - "The boob Strikes Back" :-) And he'll be waiting a long time for his rapture. The apostles thought it would be in their lifetime. "The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken... They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory... I tell you the truth, *this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened*". Matthew, 24:29-34. So perhaps Boob missed the rapture, it was about 2,000 years ago. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 13:18:39 GMT From: Doc Subject: [OT] Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Message-ID: Dave Froble wrote in news:svudndMXVrQjCNbbnZ2dnUVZ_v7inZ2d@libcom.com: > genius@marblecliff.com wrote: > >> of course, I do not think McDonalds cares whether you are >> a bigot or not in order to flip burgers ... >> > > Is "the boob" job hunting ?? I thought it was teenagers that went boob hunting on Saturday nights. Oh... wait. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:43:21 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Message-ID: Doc wrote: >> Episode V - "The boob Strikes Back" :-) > > And he'll be waiting a long time for his rapture. The apostles thought it > would be in their lifetime. Come on guys, give Bob a break. He is in mourning. Jerry Fallwell died. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15/jerry.falwell/index.html For the rest of the world, this is a celebration: one less religious exremist. But for his followers, it must be a sad loss, he was just a leader for religious extremists. Also, I heard that Tammy Fay Baker has terminal cancer and that her end is near. ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 11:50:46 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be Message-ID: In article <464C635C.4040908@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > The available evidence; e.g. the number of ink jet printers at curbside > on trash day, suggests that a lot of people just buy a new printer > instead of buying a new ink cartridge. It doesn't cost all that much > more. . . . ;-) I have a Lexmark that was supposed to be free as part of an Apple promotion, but due to incompetence was actually bought at $75. It takes two cartridges at over $100 total. It gathers dust. ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 17:00:15 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be Message-ID: <5b3g0vF2r468kU2@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <464C635C.4040908@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >> The available evidence; e.g. the number of ink jet printers at curbside >> on trash day, suggests that a lot of people just buy a new printer >> instead of buying a new ink cartridge. It doesn't cost all that much >> more. . . . ;-) > > I have a Lexmark that was supposed to be free as part of an Apple > promotion, but due to incompetence was actually bought at $75. It > takes two cartridges at over $100 total. > > It gathers dust. We used to use Lexmark lasers here for labs. They were rugged and could stand up to the beating the students gave them. We eventually dumped them when the cost of their expendables went up to more than the cost of an entire HP or Oki printer. At his point, we consider ourselves lucky if we get a good year out a printer before having to replace the whole thing. The industry gets more interesting every year. Not only are more and more components becoming throw-aways but I am amazed at how much paper it takes to go paperless and how much mire it takes to go wireless. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:04:17 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: <63b23$464c8b2f$cef8887a$10278@TEKSAVVY.COM> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Why? I have personally seen HP Printers right next to HP Refill Kits > in Sam's Club where the new printer was cheaper than the refill kit. > No joke!! And if you find one with a rebate,,,,,, I got an Epson printer for cheap. Then saw stored that refill your cartridges for you. But after inquiring, found I could buy the electronic gizmo to reset the cartridges and the raw ink that you inject in cartridges. That makes it quite affortable to print (except for the paper). However, the photo shops that now allow you to print your digital pictures produce far superior results than some inkjet can do. They thought they would be out of business until the printer companies started to rape customers for the ink cartridges. ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 13:50:33 GMT From: Doc Subject: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: "Dr. Dweeb" wrote in news:464a5780$0$7608$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk: > Well, donøt buy an Epson either. I just printed several hundred black > text pages, it now tells me my 5 colour cartridges are empty and will > print nothing. > > ALL printer manufacturers are thieves and rogues - sadly there are no > good choices. I've had no complaints over my Canon PIXMA, the cartridges don't have any circuitry in them and the ink level is visible as the case is not totally opaque plastic. When a cartridge runs out I replace one, and I get about a week warning with my usage level. My previous printer was also a Canon, and it didn't stop working - it just got progressively harder to get ink for it. Considering it lasted about 10 years before that happened I'd no complaints. My plumber recently bought a laptop and dock with all the trimmings from me. The printer/scanner/fax was a combo unit from Canon, url wraps horribly. http://reviews.cnet.com/multifunction-devices/canon-pixma-mp530/4505-3181 _7-31990796.html He's delighted with it, and as he was already spending several thousand euros I included a set of ink refills on the bill. He hasn't called asking how to install them yet, so I suspect he isn't through any of the first set yet. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:08:28 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: <00A67BF3.C70911E8@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , Doc writes: > > >"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in >news:464a5780$0$7608$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk: > >> Well, donøt buy an Epson either. I just printed several hundred black >> text pages, it now tells me my 5 colour cartridges are empty and will >> print nothing. >> >> ALL printer manufacturers are thieves and rogues - sadly there are no >> good choices. > >I've had no complaints over my Canon PIXMA, the cartridges don't have any >circuitry in them and the ink level is visible as the case is not totally >opaque plastic. When a cartridge runs out I replace one, and I get about >a week warning with my usage level. I have both Canon and Epson printers (I have a wonderful d|i|g|i|t|a|l LNC02 as well but Hopelessly Pathetic left me holding onto a $4K boat anchor when they took over the helm and decided not to support it with consumables.) My Canon i9900 is used for printing photos and does a beautiful job at it. My Epson is a Stylus Photo R300. I use it for general printing and I purchased specifically for its ability to print on CDs/DVDs. Both printers use indiv- idual ink color cartridges. I've never had to waste an ink cart because one emptied before the others. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:31:39 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: <00A67BF7.044CB5B3@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <464C635C.4040908@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >{...snip...} >The available evidence; e.g. the number of ink jet printers at curbside >on trash day, suggests that a lot of people just buy a new printer >instead of buying a new ink cartridge. It doesn't cost all that much >more. . . . ;-) ROTFLMFAO! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:42:55 +0100 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:464C635C.4040908@comcast.net... > The available evidence; e.g. the number of ink jet printers at curbside on trash day, > suggests that a lot of people just buy a new printer instead of buying a new ink > cartridge. It doesn't cost all that much more. . . . ;-) A lot of people assume that when they buy a new printer it comes with a full cartridge... ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 2007 16:37:09 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? Message-ID: <5b3ellF2r468kU1@mid.individual.net> In article <00A67BF7.044CB5B3@sendspamhere.org>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <464C635C.4040908@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>{...snip...} >>The available evidence; e.g. the number of ink jet printers at curbside >>on trash day, suggests that a lot of people just buy a new printer >>instead of buying a new ink cartridge. It doesn't cost all that much >>more. . . . ;-) > > ROTFLMFAO! Why? I have personally seen HP Printers right next to HP Refill Kits in Sam's Club where the new printer was cheaper than the refill kit. No joke!! And if you find one with a rebate,,,,,, bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:14:52 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: [OT] Thieving printer manufacturers was: Re: Shouldn't we be helping HP ? he Message-ID: <464C635C.4040908@comcast.net> VAXman- wrote: > In article , Doc writes: > >> >>"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in >>news:464a5780$0$7608$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk: >> >> >>>Well, donøt buy an Epson either. I just printed several hundred black >>>text pages, it now tells me my 5 colour cartridges are empty and will >>>print nothing. >>> >>>ALL printer manufacturers are thieves and rogues - sadly there are no >>>good choices. >> >>I've had no complaints over my Canon PIXMA, the cartridges don't have any >>circuitry in them and the ink level is visible as the case is not totally >>opaque plastic. When a cartridge runs out I replace one, and I get about >>a week warning with my usage level. > > > I have both Canon and Epson printers (I have a wonderful d|i|g|i|t|a|l LNC02 > as well but Hopelessly Pathetic left me holding onto a $4K boat anchor when > they took over the helm and decided not to support it with consumables.) My > Canon i9900 is used for printing photos and does a beautiful job at it. My > Epson is a Stylus Photo R300. I use it for general printing and I purchased > specifically for its ability to print on CDs/DVDs. Both printers use indiv- > idual ink color cartridges. I've never had to waste an ink cart because one > emptied before the others. > The available evidence; e.g. the number of ink jet printers at curbside on trash day, suggests that a lot of people just buy a new printer instead of buying a new ink cartridge. It doesn't cost all that much more. . . . ;-) ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.270 ************************