INFO-VAX Wed, 30 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 294 Contents: Re: ASE - HP AlphaServer Systems - OpenVMS credentials being retired? Re: F$GETDVI for Disk device status MntVerifyTimeout Re: FalconStor and WAN repliaction Re: FalconStor and WAN repliaction HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! HP, bring back alpha EV8 now or port to power! IBM making the same mistake as itanium? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Looking for a H7868 power supply Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp RE: RDB Tutorial Re: RDB Tutorial Re: RDB Tutorial Re: RDB Tutorial SSH port scanners Re: SSH port scanners Re: SSH port scanners Re: SSH port scanners Re: SSH port scanners Re: SSH port scanners Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:05:04 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: ASE - HP AlphaServer Systems - OpenVMS credentials being retired? Message-ID: <135r4ksknlvbp62@news.supernews.com> We do though ;0) David "IanMiller" wrote in message news:1180451486.468391.326190@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > No, current VMS certifications are based on current hardware and > software i.e. OpenVMS I64 V8.3 > > like it or not they don't sell alphaservers any more. > ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 04:45:43 -0700 From: Jim Subject: Re: F$GETDVI for Disk device status MntVerifyTimeout Message-ID: <1180525543.579204.68570@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On May 29, 9:59 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 05/29/2007 > 09:46:13 PM: > > > norm.raph...@metso.com writes: > > > >bro...@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote on 05/29/2007 04:31:53 > PM: > > > >> A device is said to have timed out of mount verification if all the > > >> below conditions are true: > > ... > > > >> 3) The valid bit is clear (bit ucb$v_valid) > > > >This seems to me to be a mounted, valid disk (a good one), > > >not one in MntVerifyTimeout. What am I missing? > > > >This one is not timeout: > > >Device status: > > >88021810 online,VALID,unload,lcl_valid,exfunc_supp,iopost_local > > >Characteristics: > > >1C4D4008 dir,fod,shr,avl,MNT,elg,idv,odv,rnd > > >03082021 clu,mscp,loc,vrt,scsi,wlg > > > He said Valid _clear_. You show one with Valid _set_, which is a usable > > mounted disk. > > Thank you. [I plead a senior moment. I really _can_ read.] > > Is there a DCL trick to access these longwords?- Hide quoted text - > How about this? $! $ pipe lib/extr=$ucbdef/out=sys$output: sys$share:lib.mlb | - $! _$ sear sys$pipe m_valid,m_mnt $! $EQU UCB$M_VALID <^X800> $! $EQU UCB$M_MNTVERIP <^X4000> $! $ pipe lib/extr=$devdef/out=sys$output: sys$share:starlet.mlb | - $! _$ sear sys$pipe m_mnt $! $EQU DEV$M_MNT <^X80000> $ $ devchar = f$getdvi(p1,"devchar") $ sts = f$getdvi(p1,"sts") $ mounted = ((devchar .and. %x80000) .ne. 0) $ valid = ((sts .and. %x800) .ne. 0) $ mntvfy_in_progress = ((sts .and. %x4000) .ne. 0) $ if mounted .and. (.not. mntvfy_in_progress) .and. (.not. valid) then - write sys$output "Disk ''p1' status is MntVerifyTimeout" $ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 09:12:50 +0200 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: FalconStor and WAN repliaction Message-ID: http://www.falconstor.com/en/support/?pg=Matrix&sb=OS Search for OpenVMS and youl'll see 7.2-1, 7.3-1 and 7.3-2. There are limitations about supported HBA's. It work with 8.2 (tested by one of my customers) and with 8.3. But can't be booted from 8.3. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:18:24 +0200 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: FalconStor and WAN repliaction Message-ID: IPStore OS ID's and storage OS ID's need to be identical. If not, you are asking for troubles. This is valid for SED (Service Enabled Devices). IPStore generate OS ID's, so you need to manualy change OS ID's on storage system to be the same as on IPStore. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 07:10:38 -0700 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: <1180534238.711964.84590@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> which will never catch power. when it still has alpha and can immediately shift to EV8 and get back on the right track ... where are the shareholders at? They should be steaming! ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 17:47:09 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: <465db89d$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <1180534238.711964.84590@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: >which will never catch power. when it still has alpha and can immediately >shift to EV8 and get back on the right track ... where are the shareholders >at? They should be steaming! Come on Bob, you know that the engineer left some years ago. So "immediately" isn't in the game now (and they would also need years to complete EV8 then) Yes, the shareholders should have been in action (but for a long time now). And, alas, they are not, so the train will continue heading the wall... Sigh (and repeating the obvious doesn't make us less sorrow/angry) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 12:35:25 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: In article <1180534238.711964.84590@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: > which will never catch power. when it still has alpha and can > immediately > shift to EV8 and get back on the right track ... where are the > shareholders > at? They should be steaming! "immediately shift to EV8"? How do you "immediately" shift to something that doesn't exist? It's like saying GM could immediately shift to the 2007 Oldsmobile. ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 06:52:38 -0700 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: HP, bring back alpha EV8 now or port to power! Message-ID: <1180533158.897962.276880@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> you are getting your butt kicked by power ... either start up EV8 which is superior to power or just port to power because itanium will never catch up ... ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 07:01:43 -0700 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: IBM making the same mistake as itanium? Message-ID: <1180533702.975693.312600@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39918 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 02:23:20 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: On 05/29/07 11:36, Main, Kerry wrote: [snip] > > However, most contractors know that the OS platform NBT (next big thing) > changes every 3-4 years. So it is always amazing to hear Customers who > still want to chase the golden rainbow every where that it goes. That I can agree with! If it were up to me, our app would be written in COBOL and ACMS. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:05:36 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: Looking for a H7868 power supply Message-ID: <135r4lupsmv2m8d@news.supernews.com> What is this used in? Vax something or other? DT wrote in message news:1180340609.043141.142600@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > If anybody has a spare laying around and wants to sell the item let me > know. > tks > phil > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:11:24 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: <57800$465d9414$cef88105$3939@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> JF Mezei wrote: > John Smith wrote: >> Frankly I'd be amazed if there was *anything* exhaustive analyzed >> knowing how M&A deals are often done. > > "True" due diligence cannot be done until the deal has been announced > publically. Before that, you get Carly and Curly discussing their > wedding in front of a fireplace with a champagne and exchanging what > they know and VERY FEW other people within the respective corporations > would be in the loop to provide them with information on the impact of > such a takeover/merger. > > M&A bankers will advise Carly/Curly on possible synergies of such a > merger based only on publically available documents from both > companies. They can make broad statements about cost savings etc, > but they cannot make definitive ones. > > Once the deal is publically announced, Carly and Curly drop their > clothes and have access to each other's books, and they can they > designate key staff within each company to do the same and report back > to them. > > Such key staff, by having intimate access to a competitor's > books/operations/secrets risks losing his/her job should the merger > fail because of the competitive information they have acquired. > > But this only happens once the deal is announced. So in the case of > NASDAQ, their statement that apparently claims that their technology > is superior to OM's is just the NASDAQ chairmain making an uninformed > opinion to help make his dick appear bigger. > > Now that the deal is announced, due diligence can happen and they can > then make more informed guesses on what Nasdaq would actually be > buying and whether the OM platform is worth preserving or not. And > this is why its i extremely important for OM and the VMS management > within HP to ensure NASDAQ is given high level "VMS is the best" > presentations. Ah, but NASDAQ is also a heavy Tandem user. And we all know how much better the Tandem guys in HP play the political and marketing cards versus the VMS team. -- Alas, poor VMS. I knew it well Horatio. ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 09:00:04 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Message-ID: <1180540803.957435.26060@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> If you look on www.openvms.org there are blogs and some genric comments. sue On May 23, 2:46 pm, DaveG wrote: > For those in attendance: > > Care to share what is going on in ZKO land this week. > > Dave... ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 09:27:06 -0700 From: IanMiller Subject: Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Message-ID: <1180542426.848151.229390@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On May 29, 1:41 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > > No, that would be too slow. But I'm still waiting for FreeVMS to be > completely implemented and soley in C so I can port it to my Pro 350. Why wait, why not join in and give them a hand. ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 09:29:12 -0700 From: IanMiller Subject: Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Message-ID: <1180542552.662459.40120@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On May 30, 5:00 pm, Sue wrote: > If you look onwww.openvms.orgthere are blogs and some genric > comments. > > sue > and I expect there will be more when people get back from travelling and post bootcamp holiday. ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 10:35:53 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Message-ID: <1180546552.970215.266070@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On May 30, 12:00 pm, Sue wrote: > If you look onwww.openvms.orgthere are blogs and some genric > comments. > > sue > > On May 23, 2:46 pm, DaveG wrote: > > > For those in attendance: > > > Care to share what is going on in ZKO land this week. > > > Dave... So when is next year's going to be? :-D ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2007 12:38:42 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OpenVMS 2007 Bootcamp Message-ID: In article <1180542426.848151.229390@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, IanMiller writes: > On May 29, 1:41 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote: >> >> No, that would be too slow. But I'm still waiting for FreeVMS to be >> completely implemented and soley in C so I can port it to my Pro 350. > > Why wait, why not join in and give them a hand. I really would like to. But with the knowledge I have and the agreements I have that could put them in two different legal battles for ownership. I wouldn't want them t oface either one. Besides, I wouldn't want to see it completely implemented in C and the only BLISS-11 compiler I know how to get cross compliles from TOPS-10 or -20, which I don't what to use again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:36:32 +0930 From: "Barratt, Chris \(FMC\)" Subject: RE: RDB Tutorial Message-ID: <062C11A882E0C749A3CFD62BA461167A0AAE302E@HADALTMAIL> =20 If you have an Rdb support contract, then the approach I would suggest (outside of taking a traing course) is to read the manual (and book) as previously suggested, as well as looking at articles on Metalink. Then log calls with every question you have...either via a TAR or put it on the Metalink forum. The Rdb Listserver is also a useful place for questions, but if you are paying for support, you might as well use it.... Cheers, chris > >> Ruslan R. Laishev wrote: > >>> Hello, All! > >>> > >>> > >>> I looking for RDB tutorial "for beginners". > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks for any pointers. >=20 > > I looking for any guide which describe for=20 > beginners several ways for > > developing/programming apps under/on RDB: >=20 > > - SQL Mods > > - SQL Preprocs > > - Stored Procedures, Packages (?) > > - Creating and using constants in the stored > > procedures/packages (as is it in=20 > > the ORACLE PL/SQL stuff). >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:33:17 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: RDB Tutorial Message-ID: In article <1987160271.20070530090913@ncc.volga.ru>, Valentin Likoum wrote: > > Obviously "Oracle Rdb7 Guide to SQL Programming" > http://download.oracle.com/otn_hosted_doc/rdb/pdf/gsp.pdf > > But it seems to be too detailed for beginners IMHO. "Oracle Rdb7 Introduction to SQL Release 7.0" is a better place to start for a beginner: http://download.oracle.com/docs/pdf/A40827_1.pdf -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:51:20 +0400 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" Subject: Re: RDB Tutorial Message-ID: Hello, Valentin! Thanks. Valentin Likoum wrote: > On 29/05/07 Ruslan R. Laishev wrote: > >> Hello, Dr. Dweeb! > > >> Dr. Dweeb wrote: >>> Ruslan R. Laishev wrote: >>>> Hello, All! >>>> >>>> >>>> I looking for RDB tutorial "for beginners". >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for any pointers. >>> Do you mean OracleRdb as a specific product, or "rdb" as a generic reference >>> to relational databases. >>> >>> Read Chris Date's book for the latter and I guess the Hobbs book for the >>> former. >>> Amazon search is your friend here. > >> I looking for any guide which describe for beginners several ways for >> developing/programming apps under/on RDB: > >> - SQL Mods >> - SQL Preprocs >> - Stored Procedures, Packages (?) >> - Creating and using constants in the stored >> procedures/packages (as is it in >> the ORACLE PL/SQL stuff). > > > Obviously "Oracle Rdb7 Guide to SQL Programming" > http://download.oracle.com/otn_hosted_doc/rdb/pdf/gsp.pdf > But it seems to be too detailed for beginners IMHO. > > -- + WBR, OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker ............. Skype: SysMan-One + Delta Telecom JSC, IMT-MC-450(CDMA2000) cellular operator Russia,191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3 Cel: +7 (812) 716-3222 +http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru ............. Frying on OpenVMS only + ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:48:51 +0400 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" Subject: Re: RDB Tutorial Message-ID: <5D5BB277AADDAF39A465FD9F50E501B9@NNTP.DeltaTel.RU> Hello! P. Sture wrote: > In article <1987160271.20070530090913@ncc.volga.ru>, > Valentin Likoum wrote: > >> Obviously "Oracle Rdb7 Guide to SQL Programming" >> http://download.oracle.com/otn_hosted_doc/rdb/pdf/gsp.pdf >> >> But it seems to be too detailed for beginners IMHO. > > "Oracle Rdb7 Introduction to SQL Release 7.0" is a better place to start > for a beginner: > > http://download.oracle.com/docs/pdf/A40827_1.pdf Thanks, Paul! -- + WBR, OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker ............. Skype: SysMan-One + Delta Telecom JSC, IMT-MC-450(CDMA2000) cellular operator Russia,191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3 Cel: +7 (812) 716-3222 +http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru ............. Frying on OpenVMS only + ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 06:36:20 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: SSH port scanners Message-ID: These guys are a nuisance, what are others doing, if anything about these. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 09:24:23 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: SSH port scanners Message-ID: On 05/30/07 08:36, Tom Linden wrote: > These guys are a nuisance, what are others doing, if anything about > these. Don't know about firewalls, but Linux distros usually have tools which detect such break-in attempts and auto-block those IP addresses. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:41:26 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: SSH port scanners Message-ID: <465D8D16.8000401@comcast.net> Tom Linden wrote: > These guys are a nuisance, what are others doing, if anything about > these. > Most ISPs prohibit port scans. Enforcement is somewhere between lax and nonexistent! If the port scan is coming from a "civilized" network, you can try complaining to the perpetrator's ISP and see what happens. If it's coming, as many do, from China, Korea, Singapore, Russia, Poland, etc, just block the source at your firewall, if your firewall allows that. If your firewall doesn't allow that, try getting a better one. My router/firewall automagically blocks any conncection that was not initiated from inside my network. That may, or may not, be practical for you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 09:50:24 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: SSH port scanners Message-ID: <07053009502407_202002DA@antinode.org> From: "Tom Linden" > These guys are a nuisance, what are others doing, if anything about > these. I just send the appropriate section of an ANAL /AUDI /FULL report to the ISP. It's rare to get a repeat from the same address, but if I see one, I use TCPIP SET SERV SSH /REJE = HOST = xx.xx.xx.xx. (Only 18 so far, so I haven't had to remove any yet.) Most of the entries seem to include a line like: Status: %LOGIN-F-EVADE, break-in evasion in effect so I don't worry much about anyone actually getting in. Average rate here is about 1-2 attacks/day. Some are one or two tries, some are hundreds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:02:31 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: SSH port scanners Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2007 07:50:24 -0700, Steven M. Schweda = = wrote: > From: "Tom Linden" > >> These guys are a nuisance, what are others doing, if anything about >> these. > > I just send the appropriate section of an ANAL /AUDI /FULL report t= o > the ISP. It's rare to get a repeat from the same address, but if I se= e > one, I use TCPIP SET SERV SSH /REJE =3D HOST =3D xx.xx.xx.xx. (Only 1= 8 so > far, so I haven't had to remove any yet.) Can you use wild cards to block out an entire, say, class C? > > Most of the entries seem to include a line like: > > Status: %LOGIN-F-EVADE, break-in evasion in effect > > so I don't worry much about anyone actually getting in. Average rate > here is about 1-2 attacks/day. Some are one or two tries, some are > hundreds. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 17:44:49 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: SSH port scanners Message-ID: Ron Johnson writes: >On 05/30/07 08:36, Tom Linden wrote: >> These guys are a nuisance, what are others doing, if anything about >> these. >Don't know about firewalls, but Linux distros usually have tools >which detect such break-in attempts and auto-block those IP addresses. I have a half-completed program that gets a breakin attempt notification from the audit server, and does the equivalent of the set serv /reject of the offending IP address, which is being created for this very reason. The portscanner's IP address will automatically be disabled after about 5 attempts. I'll make it available when ready. Another option is to have SSH use a nonstandard port so the portscanners won't find it, but I don't know offhand how to do this on VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 09:07:37 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: Rob Brown schrieb: > > Sure, but why use floating point if you are financial guy? I thought > those guys wanted exact answers. But with floating point, if x>>y and > y<>0 then x+y=x. > > So what is the advantage of using floating point in the financial > environment? because in these days of turbocapitalism fixed point numbers with limited field width are not enough, you need an exponent to map the expected exponential growth of profits. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 02:10:22 -0500 From: Dan Foster Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: In article , Michael Kraemer wrote: > Rob Brown schrieb: > >> Sure, but why use floating point if you are financial guy? I thought >> those guys wanted exact answers. But with floating point, if x>>y and >> y<>0 then x+y=x. >> >> So what is the advantage of using floating point in the financial >> environment? > > because in these days of turbocapitalism fixed point numbers > with limited field width are not enough, you need an exponent > to map the expected exponential growth of profits. ...or hyperinflation. :P -Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 06:20:12 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:13:42 -0700, JF Mezei = wrote: > Rob Brown wrote: >> Sure, but why use floating point if you are financial guy? I thought= = >> those guys wanted exact answers. But with floating point, if x>>y an= d = >> y<>0 then x+y=3Dx. > > > Without it, you use integers. > > if you have 53.12345 , it is probably stored as 5312345 with logic tha= t = > knows that this integer is the real number multiplied by 100000. > > If you wish to add 34.95 to it, you need to multiply that number to = > match the radix of the first one (say 34.95 is stored as 3495, you nee= d = > to multiply it by 1000 instead of 100000 , and then add to 5312345 and= = > when you output it, you use a formating routine that adds the decimal = = > point 5 digits from the right. > > If you have decimal floating point, you can have 53.12345 and add it = > directly to 34.94 and the end result can then be directtly formatted. = In = > your logic, you can also compare it against say 100.0 > > In other words, it is integer arithmetic with automatic and aligned = > decimal point placement. Just what the financial folks need. It is BCD arithmetic. -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 06:26:47 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:00:27 -0700, Rob Brown wrot= e: > On Tue, 29 May 2007, Tom Linden wrote: > >> On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:12:39 -0700, Rob Brown = >> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 29 May 2007, Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>> >>>> In article , = >>>> Rob Brown writes: >>>> >>>>> I can't see the use of it. When would the financial guys like to = = >>>>> use floating point? When do they ever accept x+y=3Dx for y<>0? >>>> When doing foreign currency trading (for various views of "foreign= "). >>> This could be done just as easily using fixed point. What is the = >>> advantage of using floating point? >>> >> The floating point referred to here is decimal floating point, not = >> binary, and as such it is essentially scaled fixed decimal with a 2 = >> digit exponent > > Sure, but why use floating point if you are financial guy? I thought = = > those guys wanted exact answers. But with floating point, if x>>y and= = > y<>0 then x+y=3Dx. > > So what is the advantage of using floating point in the financial = > environment? I am not sure there is an advantage, after all with fixed decimal we giv= e you 31 digits of precision. The decimal float doesn't have any added = precsion, just greater range. But I think the difference is that up until now flo= at decimal has been implemented underneath using float binary, and that is = = not good financial transactions > > -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.294 ************************