INFO-VAX Wed, 06 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 307 Contents: Re: CDC software (formerly known as Ross Systems) to drop Gembase VMS support VM Contribute to SaveOpenVMS today! (was Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th) Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: IDX Re: IDX (was:Re: Is this OT or is there a connection with VMS?) Re: Multiple Jobs with same name Re: OT: Re: Paging and process state Re: Paging and process state Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Re: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Re: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Re: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Re: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Re: PCSI, disk space, UNDO, unseen dangers etc Re: PCSI, disk space, UNDO, unseen dangers etc Re: SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and ERRLOG.SYS Re: SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and ERRLOG.SYS SSH login with expired password Re: Story Time RE: Story Time Re: Story Time RE: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th [OT] 6-JUN-1944 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:24:55 +0800 From: Paul Repacholi Subject: Re: CDC software (formerly known as Ross Systems) to drop Gembase VMS support VM Message-ID: <87ejkpvk6w.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com> dan.klein@hp.com writes: > Allow me to correct a gross inaccuracy. HP HAS NO INTENTION OF > ENDING OPENVMS FOR THE FORSEABLE FUTURE. PERIOD. Yes, previously `FOREVER' was 3 days. How long is it this time? Including those who are not 5 sided? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:16:07 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Contribute to SaveOpenVMS today! (was Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th) Message-ID: <46660AD7.1AD118DF@spam.comcast.net> signem@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 4, 8:30 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > > > > > > > >Hi Brian, > > > > >> Nice to see I'm missing from that list. > > > > >You're not alone :-( > > > > I'd wager that HP doesn't associate itself with its usenet vocal customers. ;) > > > > -- > > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > Oops. Let me correct my misstatement. I just found that in February > you did respond to us and told us not to contact you for status > information in the future. > > I'm just totally amazed at all the complaining I read on this forum, > only to realize that some people who complain are actually part of the > problem rather than being part of the solution. Really? Which posters here repeatedly refuse to market OpenVMS? (Oh - that's right: a great many actually support doing that, don't they?) Which posters here refuse to port OpenVMS to something other than Itanic? (Kind of a toss up there. The most vocal lean toward another port, with a fair amount of argument against it.) Which posters here advocate pushing UX to ISVs instead of VMS, as is/was being done with MiSys, Cerner and others? (I don't recall seeing any, but my memory is terrible.) Hhmmm... I'm not finding any foundation for that argument. Help me out here... > We welcome input from vocal customers and partners. Come on folks. Put > your energies to positive use. Sure thing! Problem #1: No VMS marketing. Solution: How many $100's of millions (US$) can we put you down for to fund a massive marketing campaign? Problem #2: HP won't market VMS and promotes UX over it. Solution: How many $10's of billions would you like to contribute toward buying VMS away from HP? Problem #3: VMS's core development team has been decimated by layoffs and early retirements. Solution: How many $10's of millions can we put you down for to hire the core team senior members back with an attractive package? By the way: contact me privately for my bank information. I'll set up a special account just for this. Become part of the solution! Contribute to SaveOpenVMS today! I'll go ahead and register "saveopenvms.org", and donate it to the SaveOpenVMS Consortium which will then own it in perpetuity. Yes - I'm DEAD SERIOUS! -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:48:27 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: <4666207b$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: > Very few are med-large Cust's are replacing their current servers on > a one for one green fielding like they used to in the good old days. > > They can no longer justify 10-20% utilization (or less) in peak > times. And replacing their 3-4 year old 2GHz server that has 15% peak > time utilization with something much faster (even if the new server > is cheaper than the old one) on a one for one basis no longer makes > any financial sense. Doing so would drive that new servers to > something like 5-8% utilization - how much sense does that make to a > CIO? Those quad 3 GHz Xeons still sell quite well. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:21:42 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: IDX Message-ID: On 06/05/07 17:49, Brad Hamilton wrote: [snip] > Perhaps it doesn't > need to. :-) I feel the pigs rumbling around my arse, trying to stretch their wings. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:49:42 -0500 From: bradhamilton@comcast.net (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: IDX (was:Re: Is this OT or is there a connection with VMS?) Message-ID: In article , Bob Koehler wrote: >In article , bradhamilton@comcast.net (Brad Hamilton) writes: > >> If one goes to the GE Healthcare website, and types, "VMS" in the search box, >> the stark answer, "No results found" is returned. > > So what? There are a lot of thingds you won't find on websites. > Web sites are not all-encompassing authoratative documents. As I freely admitted later on in the same message - however, it cannot be taken as a positive sign of ISV support if the vendor fails to mention the platform(s) on which the application runs. IDX had no trouble touting its use of the VMS platform. GE Healthcare OTOH, goes out of its way to hide references to all HW platforms from its general-public-facing website. Perhaps customers can view documents with more technically-detailed information. In my case at work, GE Healthcare's Centricity EMR (the new product we will be using) runs on HP HW. The "O/S" is W2K3. I hope it works well for us; it will improve my productivity if it works as advertised. It would have been nice if it ran on VMS (or even AIX). Perhaps it doesn't need to. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:19:24 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Multiple Jobs with same name Message-ID: <4665FD8C.6DC01F22@spam.comcast.net> David J Dachtera wrote: > > "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > > > > Can I submit multiple jobs with the same name "Submit /name=myjob" and then > > issue a single "sync myjob" to wait for them all? > > No, but I have some DCL code that will collect entries and attempt to > SYNCHRONIZE to the list. > > Example: > $ @ENT SYNC Q=SYS$BATCH > > There is a also a function: > $ @ENT GET Q=SYS$BATCH > > ...which will return the list of entries comma-separated in a global ENTRIES > symbol. > > If anyone wants it I can post it to the group. ...but first I might extend it to include support for "J[OB]=jobanme" in P2. DCSC has a nasty tendency to queue up a housekeeping job at startup time whether one is currently queued or not. I actually have another work-around for that for use in a PIPEline, but I'd rather include support in ENT.COM in case the other proc. is not available where ENT.COM exists. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 02:53:05 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: OT: Re: Paging and process state Message-ID: Dan Foster wrote: > In article <2b0c5$466490e0$cef8887a$32333@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei wrote: > >>P. Sture wrote: >> >>>>Do you mean Heisenburg? >>> >>>This internet thingy isn't very reliable as to the correct spelling, but >>>the following looks right to me: >> >>I apologize... My first language is not English. >>(heck, if a guy with an english name like "Dan Foster" can claim that >>excuse, then Shirley, a guy with a name like Jean-François Mezei can >>claim it too :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) > > > That JF guy does a great job, all considering. :-) > > I may have an English name, but assumptions can be dangerous. ;) Whether > it be based on names, looks, clothes, or other basis. > > I have no excuse for not being linguistically correct in an English > speaking forum. What can I say? I accept my mistake. I'll try harder. > > -Dan "On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog." (I typed "your" the first time and only noticed at the last second, and I have no such excuse. SWS???) -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:35:38 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Paging and process state Message-ID: <295a2$4665bb3b$cef8887a$30642@TEKSAVVY.COM> Bob Koehler wrote: >> I apologize... My first language is not English. >> (heck, if a guy with an english name like "Dan Foster" can claim that >> excuse, then Shirley, a guy with a name like Jean-François Mezei can >> claim it too :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) > > Heisenburg is English now? (I had originally though about putting a disclaimer about my native language not being an issue when spelling a person's name, but decided to opt out of it since it would have reduced the impact of that statement :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:56:10 -0700 From: stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au Subject: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Message-ID: <1181073370.780549.63190@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Hi Group, I am using Pascal on Itanium and I was wondering is there a compiler setting that will allow me to get a list of UNUSED variables. I have a program that someone has gutted and left in a pretty poor format full of unused variables and I would like to remove them before trying to update the program. Thanks Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:49:01 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Message-ID: <4665CC3D.30204@comcast.net> stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: > Hi Group, > > I am using Pascal on Itanium and I was wondering is there a compiler > setting that will allow me to get a list of UNUSED variables. > > I have a program that someone has gutted and left in a pretty poor > format full of unused variables and I would like to remove them before > trying to update the program. > > Thanks > > Stuart > If /CROSS_REFERENCE is available, that will do it! You might be better off, however, rewriting from scratch. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:44:09 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: > >> Hi Group, >> >> I am using Pascal on Itanium and I was wondering is there a compiler >> setting that will allow me to get a list of UNUSED variables. >> >> I have a program that someone has gutted and left in a pretty poor >> format full of unused variables and I would like to remove them before >> trying to update the program. >> >> Thanks >> >> Stuart >> > > If /CROSS_REFERENCE is available, that will do it! > > You might be better off, however, rewriting from scratch. > Oh that hurts. :-) :-) -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:05:55 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Message-ID: <4665DE43.4050608@comcast.net> John Reagan wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >> stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: >> >>> Hi Group, >>> >>> I am using Pascal on Itanium and I was wondering is there a compiler >>> setting that will allow me to get a list of UNUSED variables. >>> >>> I have a program that someone has gutted and left in a pretty poor >>> format full of unused variables and I would like to remove them before >>> trying to update the program. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Stuart >>> >> >> If /CROSS_REFERENCE is available, that will do it! >> >> You might be better off, however, rewriting from scratch. >> > > Oh that hurts. :-) :-) > > Many, many years ago, someone whose name I have forgotten, if I ever knew it, wrote "Only after you have written a program and run it for a considerable time do you truly understand how you SHOULD have written it in the first place!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 15:22:18 -0700 From: DeanW Subject: Re: Pascal Compiler setting to detect unused variables on Itanium Message-ID: <3f119ada0706051522q6177bb51oe1803874cd994bc7@mail.gmail.com> On 6/5/07, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Many, many years ago, someone whose name I have forgotten, if I ever > knew it, wrote "Only after you have written a program and run it for a > considerable time do you truly understand how you SHOULD have written it > in the first place!" I don't know how many times I've had to revisit something and then thought "What in the WORLD was I thinking when that seemed like a good thing to do?" And I'm not just talking about writing code, either. :-/ -- Dean Woodward =o&o dean.woodward@gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:25:31 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: PCSI, disk space, UNDO, unseen dangers etc Message-ID: <4665C6BB.6050101@comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , glen herrmannsfeldt writes: > >>Bob Koehler wrote: >> >>>In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >> >>>>Isn't renaming directories officially unsupported, though? :-) >>> >>> Not on any version of VMS that I've ever used. >> >>Be very careful on VMS 1.0. Otherwise it is probably fine. >> >>VMS 1.0 let you rename a directory into itself. >> > > > Before VMS 3.0 you could delete a non-empty directory by just setting > it's protection. But I've never seen any directory refered to _only_ > by itself other than 000000.DIR;1 How would you expect to find it? I suppose you could search INDEXF.SYS. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:31:12 -0800 From: glen herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: PCSI, disk space, UNDO, unseen dangers etc Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: (snip) >>> VMS 1.0 let you rename a directory into itself. >> Before VMS 3.0 you could delete a non-empty directory by just setting >> it's protection. But I've never seen any directory refered to _only_ >> by itself other than 000000.DIR;1 > How would you expect to find it? I suppose you could search INDEXF.SYS. As far as I know, you can't. The disk blocks disappear, but the quota doesn't change. The first time I did it accidentally. If someone gets 1.0 running under a hobbyist license we can test it. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:59:12 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and ERRLOG.SYS Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > Looking for large files on the system disk which have been recently > > modified, I see > > > > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSERR]ERRLOG.SYS and > > > > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL. > > > > Do both of these files need to be on the system disk? If not, is there > > a way to change the name and location of the files (e.g. a logical > > name)? > > You can, and should, periodicly migrate these files to offline > storage. ERRLOG.SYS can simply be renamed or deleted after migration, > the error logger will simply create a new one. Right. > The command to start a new audit log is in "set audit", the exact > form has varied slightly over major versions of VMS. OK. > You should also look at SYS$MANAGER:OPERATOR.LOG, and any log files > your network stacks are generating (c.f. "reply/new_log"). Operator logs are already off the system disks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:39:58 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and ERRLOG.SYS Message-ID: In article , norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: I'll reorder your post a bit here: > > HELP shows > === > HELP SET AUDIT /SERVER > > /SERVER=keyword[,...] > > Modifies audit server characteristics. The following table > describes keywords for the /SERVER qualifier: > > Keyword Description > > CREATE_SYSTEM_LOG This keyword is obsolete. > > On Alpha, causes the audit server to create > a new local system security audit log file. > Other audit servers in the cluster are not > affected. This keyword may be used by sites > operating a multienvironment cluster where > it may be necessary to create a new log file > on a specific node in the cluster. CREATE_ > SYSTEM_LOG is synonymous with NEW_LOG for > nonclustered systems. > [...] > NEW_LOG Creates a new clusterwide audit log file. > Typically, this is used daily to generate a > new version of the audit log file. > > The following sequence of commands can be used > to reset the space monitoring thresholds and > then to recreate the auditing log, thereby > creating a smaller log file: > > $ SET AUDIT /JOURNAL=SECURITY > /THRESHOLD=WARN=200 > $ SET AUDIT /SERVER=NEW_LOG > > === > > So I have separate journals for each node in the cluster, and the > modified-date is not the date of last entry, and the qualifier I think > I'd use to make a smaller new file on each system is marked "This keyword > is obsolete," but also "On Alpha, causes...." and I'm on Alpha. Yes, but you have 2 separate SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR] area. Don't be fooled be the fact that the audit file ids and creation dates are the same, as they have different sizes and revision dates. An educated guess says that you cloned one disk from the other at some point in the past. > While we are on this topic, I have two system disks, and two > SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL files: > > SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL;2 > (6341,5,0) 12067/12231 > 21-JUL-1999 14:48:25.39 16-FEB-2007 13:30:54.42 > > SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL;2 > (6341,5,0) 123805/123966 > 21-JUL-1999 14:48:25.39 17-FEB-2007 12:34:14.08 > > The other qualifier, NEW_LOG "Creates a new > clusterwide audit log file." which is not the environment I'd like to > retain, and the instructions for how to make a smaller file are not > detailed with the other qualifier. > My guess is that "clusterwide audit log file" here actually means SYS$COMMON in practice. Since you have 2 separate system disks, you also have 2 separate SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR& directories. IOW each audit journal will be created in the correct place. Further quote from the help: > By default, the size of the new auditing log > file is based on the size of the previous > auditing logs. Looking at my system, issuing $ set audit /server=new_log results in: Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR] SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL;6 0/31842 5-JUN-2007 23:09:32.06 SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL;5 28791/28800 10-MAR-2007 19:32:32.14 Note that my new log has defaulted to 31 K blocks as a result of the behaviour the help above describes (I'm slightly surprised, as from experience on other Alphas I was expecting something like 20 K blocks there). It is likely that your first journal file will have approx. 12 K blocks allocated (i.e. not much less than the current one), but your second journal file will get an allocation of 20-30 K blocks. > I seek guidance. Provided your setup hasn't manually redefined SYS$COMMON as a search list pointing at a non system disk, try $ set audit /server=new_log on each node and check the results. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 15:17:30 -0700 From: DeanW Subject: SSH login with expired password Message-ID: <3f119ada0706051517h5b454272g56596c0fcd882f83@mail.gmail.com> If we can take a break from the "HP is killing VMS" thread for a moment, I'd like to ask for some help, so I might have a chance at selling some VMS to a potential customer: Environment: HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Version V5.6 on an HP rx2600 (1.40GHz/1.5MB) running OpenVMS V8.3 Scenario: new user account with pre-expired password can't log in via SSH. This worked with TCPIP 5.4, after setting the following: AllowNonvmsLoginWithExpiredPw yes http://h30266.www3.hp.com/odl/i64os/network/tcpip56/BA548_90007/apbs03.html leads me to believe it should work still in 5.6. Indeed, I get no errors. Using that parameter in TCPIP 5.5 (on VMS 8.2-1) gets me this: sys0.syscommon.][sysexe]tcpip$ssh_sshd2.exe[58826]: WARNING: Unrecognized configuration parameter 'AllowNonvmsLoginWithExpiredPw'. Tue 05 09:41:58 WARNING: Failed to parse some variables from config file 'ssh2/sshd2_config'. sys0.syscommon.][sysexe]tcpip$ssh_sshd2.exe[58826]: WARNING: Failed to parse some variables from config file 'ssh2/sshd2_config'. Tue 05 09:41:58 WARNING: ****************** You may have a old style configuration file. Please follow the instructions in the release notes to use the new configuration files. ****************** Pointers, anyone? -- Dean Woodward =o&o dean.woodward@gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:48:25 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <1181065705.540389.236110@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 7:49 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you denigrate > have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have stated > numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of crap > like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! The marketing came much later - after a huge amount of development, distributions, and more were done. Not only that, but were done by a wide variety of individuals, volunteers, and groups - not companies or marketers. In fact, much of the actual software development still comes from these individuals, volunteers, and groups. > Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications > can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require fork() > and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of which > VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. You see, you still declare failure before even beginning. You rationalize porting of 100% of applications as impossible by revolving around 2 minor things. Spinning the loss instead of attempting the win. And the fact that there ARE applications and services that have been ported pretty much invalidates your claim on its face. The fact that wxWidgets and GTK+ libraries are already ported to VMS (incidently, they both use X11), and many others use pthread rather than fork() just makes the claim look uninformed. And there are tons of "console" apps that require neither. The codebase that makes up the *AMP suite (Apache, MySQL, PERL/PHP) and Mozilla as all been successfully ported to OpenVMS. Guess what? fork() and X11 didn't stop them. You can see a ton of work in the VMS C library to support more of the "glibc" features that are becoming more common in modern C/C++ development. The GNV effort makes even more of this possible. After all, Ford got unbreakable glass by ignoring people with your view and hiring people who didn't know better. > There were thousands upon thousands of MG and Triumph owners (still are, > actually) but even that didn't save BLM from bad management. And again, exactly like I stated at the beginning - "what next faux pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS". What I see here is a case where there is NO circumstance where HP could succeed in your mind. Even when there is marketing, it's "not enough" or "too late" or whatever other excuse you want to choose for the moment. If HP puts out something that doesn't mention VMS, its touted as another "sure sign" that HP is trying to kill VMS. You are actually becoming part of the PROBLEM. I actually see a lot of work out there for porting various libraries/ apps, but part of the issue is there isn't much organization. Maybe we need a "SourceForge" environment for OpenVMS developers where we can work together better. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:19:09 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: RE: Story Time Message-ID: > A roadmap is a guide. It is not cast in stone and there are all sorts of > statements on the roadmap stating "subject to change". This has been > discussed many times on comp.os.vms. That's clear. However, it is somewhat frustrating to see something on the road map which then disappears. Perhaps the roadmap should have the milestones divided into "very certain", "probably", "maybe", "depends on demand", "depends on demand and revenue directly associated with that demand" etc. Whether or not it's a problem in the concrete case is a different question, but things disappearing tend to reinforce the feeling people have (correctly or not) that the COOV (current owner of VMS) is less reliable than was the case 20 years ago. > Can you point me to any other large OS/server vendor that has as > detailed (versions etc) future roadmaps on their storage, OS, > networking, HW etc available on their public web site? That might be the crux of the problem. Many people compare HP today with DEC 20 years ago, not with the competition today. They see the downhill slide, and extrapolate. Yes, many things are still great, and yes, many rumours are untrue. That doesn't mean that nothing could be better, and that no impressions are false. The decline of VMS in academia is huge and there is no way to deny it. True, academia perhaps didn't make much of a profit, maybe it was even a loss, but the fact is that young people introduced to VMS at college (if not earlier) is the key to having people work with VMS in the future. If companies can only hire older, more experienced folks at a high salary, that is good for older, more experienced folks at a high salary in the short term, but isn't good for the long-term viability of VMS. > For that matter, can you provide me with any OS software vendor that > still provides current versions of their OS for HW that is 20+ years > old? I wonder what Microsoft would say if I asked them to support > Windows XP or Windows 2003 on a 286 or even a 386 or 486 system? Again, the competition is not the issue. VMS is better than the competition. The question is, could VMS be even better than it is now and if so wouldn't that go a long way to taking the wind out of the sails of the nay-sayers? I'm reading comp.os.vms from VMS, using quite new OS version, somewhat older newsreader software and quite old hardware. I quite literally have enough VAX and ALPHA hardware in my house to last me until I die, and I have every intention of doing all of my computer stuff on VMS at least until then. I see two Big Goofs in the last few years. First, the neglect of academia. True, this wasn't only the problem of DEC (which is when the decline started) and its successors, but also the "free software is cool" mentality of the typical sysadmin which led to the proliferation of unix in academia (interestingly, many of these guys are now teaching folks how to use Microsoft applications). Second, the argument for Itanium was that it would be "industry standard", which it hasn't turned out to be. OK, this might not be the fault of HP, but it would be nice to own up to the fact and come up with a "plan B" for the future of VMS. After all, if a few years ago the message was that VMS has to move to the "industry standard" hardware in order to survive, then is is only reasonable to expect doubts when that hardware has not, after all, turned out to be "industry standard". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:51:03 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: In article <5cl50bF2v760eU3@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > This is more meaningful than you might think. We still have a VMS > machine here for academic use. And every faculty, staff and student > has an account on it. How does this show up in the VMS constant? I > am sure that the existence of this machine is counted in HP's numbers > somewhere. Only problem is, no one uses it. Students haven't used > it for years. The last users were dinosaur faculty who still read > their email there. But the University Datacenter fixed that. They > stopped letting it receive or send email. Now, it sits int he computer > room consuming electricity and generating heat. I ran the last VMS > machines for academic use and as everyone here already knows, they > were shutdown last year. So, I guess at least here, I was that ONE > GUY. OK, you're one guy, and I know another one guy. That's two guys. It used to be, not 2 users, but several thousand users. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:53:37 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: RE: Story Time Message-ID: In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > As far as the University scene goes, they are under huge, huge pressure > to reduce costs, so the various Colleges and Departments within the > University are jumping on the open source, Linux stuff not because it is > technically better, but rather because it is low cost (at least when you > look at the initial cost only). As I said, it's not all HP's fault. > However, like the old saying goes, "the grass is not always greener on > the other side" and these same Universities are now struggling with > monthly security patching, version control, license monitoring, change > management and yet still keep in line with regulatory requirements like > FERPA, SOX, HIPPA etc. Right. Unfortunately, since often these things are paid for out of a differnt pot than initial costs, some folks don't see the total cost. > What is happening with OpenVMS at Universities is no different than what > is also happening to Solaris and AIX at Universities .. same thing > happening to them as well. I know as I just recently completed a > multi-platform consolidation engagement at a large US University. In some cases, yes, but in others, universities have moved from VMS to Solaris or AIX. Shouldn't HP be in there and offering a VMS solution? ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 18:52:15 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5clpmvF30crfvU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1181065705.540389.236110@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, davidc@montagar.com writes: > On Jun 5, 7:49 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you denigrate >> have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have stated >> numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of crap >> like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! > > The marketing came much later - after a huge amount of development, > distributions, and more were done. Not only that, but were done by a > wide variety of individuals, volunteers, and groups - not companies or > marketers. In fact, much of the actual software development still > comes from these individuals, volunteers, and groups. All of which applies to BSD equally except that BSD had several years headstart (including the development that continued despite the AT&T lawsuit which everyone involved in the technical side of the game knew was never going to go anywhere). The only thing Linux has that BSD does not is marketing. And look at the difference in awareness and interest. BSD's license is much more business friendly than the GPV. BSD is stabler, more secure, more efficient and has more stuff that was actually implemented correctly than Linux. And still businesses are flocking to Linux and ignoring BSD. And the answer is, marketing. Ask any CIO you know who is involved in one of these Linux migrations why Linux and not BSD. The most likely answer will be, "What's BSD?" Sure sounds like the same boat VMS is in to me. :-) > >> Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications >> can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require fork() >> and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of which >> VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. > > You see, you still declare failure before even beginning. You > rationalize porting of 100% of applications as impossible by revolving > around 2 minor things. I am not spinning anything. Name the applications that people are most likely to want. Then look at what they contain. Actually, the obsolete version of X11 that is available for VMS is probably the bigger show stopper as desktop apps are what sells computers today. But there are still alot of cute little things with fork() in them. And that list was not meant to be exclusive. It just pointed out the two most common shortcomings frequently mentioned here everytime this subjecy comes up. > Spinning the loss instead of attempting the > win. And the fact that there ARE applications and services that have > been ported pretty much invalidates your claim on its face. The fact > that wxWidgets and GTK+ libraries are already ported to VMS > (incidently, they both use X11), and many others use pthread rather > than fork() just makes the claim look uninformed. And there are tons > of "console" apps that require neither. Console apps don't sell computers or OSes today. I have a closet full of VT terminals the University abandoned to prove it. All they were used for was Registration, twice a year and that is no longer done with character cell applications. And, if it's so simple and VSM has all the pieces needed, let me know when you have OpenOffice running. > > The codebase that makes up the *AMP suite (Apache, MySQL, PERL/PHP) > and Mozilla as all been successfully ported to OpenVMS. Guess what? > fork() and X11 didn't stop them. > > You can see a ton of work in the VMS C library to support more of the > "glibc" features that are becoming more common in modern C/C++ > development. The GNV effort makes even more of this possible. > > After all, Ford got unbreakable glass by ignoring people with your > view and hiring people who didn't know better. > >> There were thousands upon thousands of MG and Triumph owners (still are, >> actually) but even that didn't save BLM from bad management. > > And again, exactly like I stated at the beginning - "what next faux > pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS". What I see > here is a case where there is NO circumstance where HP could succeed > in your mind. Even when there is marketing, it's "not enough" or "too > late" or whatever other excuse you want to choose for the moment. If > HP puts out something that doesn't mention VMS, its touted as another > "sure sign" that HP is trying to kill VMS. I have never said that HP was trying to kill VMS. In fact, I doubt they would expend the energy. It is sufficient to just continue to ignore it while milking the cash cow until the last user finally leaves. The point I and many others have made is that it would take minimal effort to reverse the trend that has been seen with VMS the last daceade or so. A few thousand dollars for marketing. Giving a few good stories to the press. Anything to convince the people buying IT today that there is a future in buying and running VMS. > > You are actually becoming part of the PROBLEM. I can't be part of the problem because I am not even in the equation. But if you think the solution is in sticking my head in the sand like so many others, then I admit I am not going to be part of the solution. > > I actually see a lot of work out there for porting various libraries/ > apps, but part of the issue is there isn't much organization. Maybe > we need a "SourceForge" environment for OpenVMS developers where we > can work together better. What stops you from using SourceForge? I haven't looked at it but I was not aware of anything that restricted projects to Linux. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 19:11:39 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5clqrbF3171q7U1@mid.individual.net> In article <1181065229.574964.93770@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" writes: > On Jun 5, 12:57 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> In article , >> "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> > Hey, what do you think Oracle does for OpenVMS? For Windows? >> >> Are you trying to tell me that Oracle was OSS "ported" from Linux to >> OpenVMS as opposed to having been written specifically for VMS? >> > > Unfortunately, yes. Ever since v8.1.7.0 that's what they do. It was > supposed to let them release an OpenVMS version within 90 day of the > release of the major UNIX version that Oracle is based on (IIRC > Solaris Sparc). So far the best they managed was the initial 8.1.7 > release which was only 120 days or so behind the UNIX version. The > first versions of Oracle were developed on VAX/VMS, but somewhere > along the way (around V6 perhaps), they switched to doing the main > development on Sun Solaris and then implemented the changes on the > other platforms they supported. The 8i release (8.1.7) I believe was > the first major release where the code was made for UNIX, then ported > to other O/S platforms. I may be somewhat off on this, but I'm close. There is a big difference between maintaining two similar parallel source trees for two OSes and porting an application that has never been on the second OS. And, using your own example. If the application already exists in fully functional form and yet it takes considerably longer than planned to apply changes because the development is being done on Unix, what would that tell you about the level of effort needed to take an application that was never intended to run on VMS and port it from Unix? Trust me, I have experience. :-) In one of my previous lives I had to try and port Unix apps to Primos. Now that was a trip!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:20:14 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: Robert Deininger wrote: > Yup. That's because a new VAX release isn't even in the top 100 list of > things customers are asking for. I have quite a problem with this statement. (not directed at you, this type of argument has often been used by the onwed of VMS to justify NOT doing something). Considering that a large proportion of customers are totally out of touch with VMS management (and they many not even have any contact with HP at all), does HP *REALLY* know what VMS customers are really interested in ? The VAX 8.* was in the roadmap. So customers who needed it were happy and didn't take the trouble of telling HP they really needed it since it was already commited. So HP then goes about and says that nobody really asked for it, so they pulled out. Why are so many customers stuck at 5.5-2 on VAX ? Because that was the last version before Palmer started his slash and burn, at which point customers heeded the call and stopped developping on VMS and put new applications on other platforms, leaving their VAX machines static as long as that app continues to work. (and the slash&burn also made it harder for customers to migrate due to software/drivers not ported to Alpha). Now, fast forward to 2007. If HP wants to get those static VAX customers back in the stream, it should show them it is really interested in them and start dialogue (perhaps through DECUS or some other method) to find out what it would take to get those customers to upgrade their VAXes. At the very least, they could get second hand Alphas (or new ones from that secret HP channel). By showing those customers the current VMS version, they can see all the added functions, improvements and new features and work to convince them to start building on VMS again. It takes vision to see the potential of reactivating those VAX customers. You cannot just wait in your office and wait for one or more of them to go through the trouble of trying to contact someone at HP that even knows what VMS is, because that is next to impossible unless you know about Sue and she can then direct you to someone who can help you. When HP inherited VMS, it had a perfect opportunity to show all VMS customers that it cared and that it would want to serve them. Instead, it went out of its way to not mention VMS. It committed to a new version on VAX, but then retracted that promise (probably due to all the staff cuts that require projects to be canned). Heck, they have yet to produce a patch for MONITOR to abide by existing SPD documents that show that 8.3 alpha will interoperate fully in a cluster with VAX 7.3. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:11:00 -0700 From: "Malcolm Dunnett" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <4665c355$1@flight> "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message news:5clpmvF30crfvU1@mid.individual.net... > All of which applies to BSD equally except that BSD had several years > headstart (including the development that continued despite the AT&T > lawsuit which everyone involved in the technical side of the game knew > was never going to go anywhere). It's dangerous to think that technical merit has any bearing on the outcome of a lawsuit :-) > Ask any CIO you know who is involved in one of these Linux migrations > why Linux and not BSD. The most likely answer will be, "What's BSD?" > Sure sounds like the same boat VMS is in to me. :-) > Which is somewhat ironic considering that BSD was the "other" operating system available for VAX when it was first released. So two of the "hottest" operating systems from the early 80's are in the same boat today. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:08:50 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > Robert Deininger wrote: > > Yup. That's because a new VAX release isn't even in the top 100 list of > > things customers are asking for. > > I have quite a problem with this statement. (not directed at you, this > type of argument has often been used by the onwed of VMS to justify NOT > doing something). In this case, I think that it's probably true that it's not in the top 100 things. > Considering that a large proportion of customers are totally out of > touch with VMS management (and they many not even have any contact with > HP at all), does HP *REALLY* know what VMS customers are really > interested in ? Well, by definition they can only evaluate what customers ask for by examining the questions customers ask. I'm sure that if a customer really wants a new version of VMS for VAX he will communicate this to HP. Of course, to make sense (and cents) here, he needs to be a paying customer. Hobbyists aren't a business case. > The VAX 8.* was in the roadmap. So customers who needed it were happy > and didn't take the trouble of telling HP they really needed it since it > was already commited. So HP then goes about and says that nobody really > asked for it, so they pulled out. The question is, who needed it? > Why are so many customers stuck at 5.5-2 on VAX ? Because that was the > last version before Palmer started his slash and burn, at which point > customers heeded the call and stopped developping on VMS and put new > applications on other platforms, leaving their VAX machines static as > long as that app continues to work. (and the slash&burn also made it > harder for customers to migrate due to software/drivers not ported to > Alpha). Another reason is that 5.5-2 is a relatively mature version of VMS and many apps were mature and people wanted to avoid the upgrade costs. There are MANY applications which are mature, which is a GOOD thing, but they don't require a new version of VMS. > Now, fast forward to 2007. If HP wants to get those static VAX customers > back in the stream, it should show them it is really interested in them > and start dialogue (perhaps through DECUS or some other method) to find > out what it would take to get those customers to upgrade their VAXes. Again, if the stuff runs on the VAX, and does what it should, why upgrade? One can get enough VAXes for free to keep on running for decades (in fact, I have), so end-of-life, end-of-support etc is not an issue. > At the very least, they could get second hand Alphas (or new ones from > that secret HP channel). By showing those customers the current VMS > version, they can see all the added functions, improvements and new > features and work to convince them to start building on VMS again. Again, only if those folks are interested. If they are interested in maintaining their mature apps, there is no need to upgrade. If they are interested in building on VMS, they have already moved to ALPHA. ALPHA had a few good years before the decline of DEC. > Heck, they have yet to produce a patch for MONITOR to abide by existing > SPD documents that show that 8.3 alpha will interoperate fully in a > cluster with VAX 7.3. What's the status here? My personal interest (as a hobbyist) in a newer version of VMS for VAX is to be able to continue a mixed cluster with the latest ALPHA version. In the past, it was also a motivation that I didn't have enough ALPHAs. Now, I do, but I want to keep the VAXes because a) my small VAXes use less power than any of my ALPHAs and b) the VAX hardware is more robust. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:32:25 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: I would be happy to donate (and of course sell if possible) some DS10L systems we have in storage in the UK. They need memory and disks but wouldn't eat too much into your grant money We also sell lots of other Alpha systems I couldn't match edu discounts from HP on Inegrity tho. Did I mention I am English and my mother comes from Fishponds, Bristol UK? David dturner-at-islandco-dot-com www.islandco.com "Anton Shterenlikht" wrote in message news:20070605134100.GA7625@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk... > On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 12:58:51PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> room consuming electricity and generating heat. I ran the last VMS >> machines for academic use and as everyone here already knows, they >> were shutdown last year. So, I guess at least here, I was that ONE >> GUY. > > nevermind, I received a 15k GBP grant from the Royal Society in 2007, part > of which is for setting up a vms cluster. Whatever they say, with > educational licenses and reasonably priced alphas and integrity, e.g. > rx2660, > why not give it a go. > > If all works at least half well, why not let my students explore parallel/ > distributed computing on a cross architecture cluster with wery high > bandwidth. > > It might at least be worth considering this as an alternative to a > beowulf cluster, in particular, a vms cluster might even be more > energy efficient. > > Obtaining the media and general information, though, was hard, and I'd > like to take this opportunity to thank first Ray Turner, UK VMS > ambassador, Ian Miller and others from openvms.org, Colin Butcher, and > all others, including this mailing list and some people from HP, who > helped me. > > -- > Anton Shterenlikht > Room 2.6, Queen's Building > Mech Eng Dept > Bristol University > University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK > Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 > Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:17:20 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > Well, by definition they can only evaluate what customers ask for by > examining the questions customers ask. I'm sure that if a customer > really wants a new version of VMS for VAX he will communicate this to > HP. That is the point. Most customers do not have a line of contact with VMS management and wouln't even know how to ask. Secondly, and most importantly, with VMS "assumed dead until proven otherwise", the onus is on HP to contact those customers and tell them VMS is still alive and make them deals to make them want to upgrade. This, of course, would require some form of sales force to go visit customers, or VMS management sending out letters to those customers, including those who may not be suported by HP. > The question is, who needed it? A customer who has decided to grow IT via Solaris will not *need* yp upgrade VMS. They still have a legacy apps on an old VAX at 5.5-2 and they aren't thouching it. But those customers are not "contributing" to the VMS ecosystem because they do not buy new applications, they do not develop on VMS, nor do they need extra horsepower. By convincing those "idle" customer to upgrade, you also open the door for them to start adding more modern applications to their VMS systems and grow their VMS infrastructure. ISVs are not intererested in a platform where people don't buy any software anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:35:01 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <1181079301.332207.200590@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 2:52 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > What stops you from using SourceForge? I haven't looked at it but I > was not aware of anything that restricted projects to Linux. > That's true, they don't have a restriction. There's just that niggly little problem that they don't have any VMS systems in their build farm. They do take donations of equipment though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:42:36 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <1181079756.576541.69760@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 3:11 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1181065229.574964.93...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > "johnhreinha...@yahoo.com" writes: > > > > > On Jun 5, 12:57 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article , > >> "Main, Kerry" writes: > > >> > Hey, what do you think Oracle does for OpenVMS? For Windows? > > >> Are you trying to tell me that Oracle was OSS "ported" from Linux to > >> OpenVMS as opposed to having been written specifically for VMS? > > > Unfortunately, yes. Ever since v8.1.7.0 that's what they do. It was > > supposed to let them release an OpenVMS version within 90 day of the > > release of the major UNIX version that Oracle is based on (IIRC > > Solaris Sparc). So far the best they managed was the initial 8.1.7 > > release which was only 120 days or so behind the UNIX version. The > > first versions of Oracle were developed on VAX/VMS, but somewhere > > along the way (around V6 perhaps), they switched to doing the main > > development on Sun Solaris and then implemented the changes on the > > other platforms they supported. The 8i release (8.1.7) I believe was > > the first major release where the code was made for UNIX, then ported > > to other O/S platforms. I may be somewhat off on this, but I'm close. > > There is a big difference between maintaining two similar parallel > source trees for two OSes and porting an application that has never > been on the second OS. And, using your own example. If the application > already exists in fully functional form and yet it takes considerably > longer than planned to apply changes because the development is being > done on Unix, what would that tell you about the level of effort needed > to take an application that was never intended to run on VMS and port > it from Unix? Trust me, I have experience. :-) In one of my previous > lives I had to try and port Unix apps to Primos. Now that was a trip!! > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Bill, you missed the point. They DON'T have any parallel source trees anymore. Every new major version is ported fresh from the UNIX source. I'm sure they have scripts to do standard edits and maybe a separate set of subroutines and such, but they don't have parallel code and transfer the changes from one to another (except for the point release patches). They USED to do the parallel code trees, but the last of that was V8.0.x. I also wasn't disagreeing with you about the effort it takes to port applications. I was just pointing out to you that Kerry was right about what Oracle does now - as strange as it seems (Not about Kerry being right, but that Oracle would do it that way). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:43:38 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <1181079818.404586.215550@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 1:48 pm, dav...@montagar.com wrote: > I actually see a lot of work out there for porting various libraries/ > apps, but part of the issue is there isn't much organization. Maybe > we need a "SourceForge" environment for OpenVMS developers where we > can work together better. I've thought about that too. Hopefully in a few months there may be some help in that area. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:25:12 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: On 06/05/07 13:52, Bill Gunshannon wrote: [snip] > > All of which applies to BSD equally except that BSD had several years > headstart (including the development that continued despite the AT&T > lawsuit which everyone involved in the technical side of the game knew > was never going to go anywhere). The only thing Linux has that BSD > does not is marketing. And look at the difference in awareness and > interest. BSD's license is much more business friendly than the GPV. Two words: Unix Wars. > BSD is stabler, more secure, more efficient and has more stuff that > was actually implemented correctly than Linux. And still businesses > are flocking to Linux and ignoring BSD. And the answer is, marketing. > Ask any CIO you know who is involved in one of these Linux migrations > why Linux and not BSD. The most likely answer will be, "What's BSD?" > Sure sounds like the same boat VMS is in to me. :-) And "all those eyes" are constantly looking at various pieces, saying, "hey, I can make that part 'better' (for some definition of 'better') or 'I've found a bug, here's a patch'". You'd be stunned by the disagreements between major kernel developers on the linux-kernel mailing list (lkml). But when someone brings a well-written (meaning: it follows Linus' coding standards) chunk of code to the table that implements a new feature (usually a driver) or replaces old code (and is demonstrably better (faster, simpler, uses less memory) it is accepted. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:29:18 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <2tl9i.116256$NK5.84666@newsfe23.lga> On 06/05/07 15:08, Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article , JF Mezei > writes: [snip] > >> Now, fast forward to 2007. If HP wants to get those static VAX customers >> back in the stream, it should show them it is really interested in them >> and start dialogue (perhaps through DECUS or some other method) to find >> out what it would take to get those customers to upgrade their VAXes. > > Again, if the stuff runs on the VAX, and does what it should, why > upgrade? One can get enough VAXes for free to keep on running for > decades (in fact, I have), so end-of-life, end-of-support etc is not an > issue. And then you roll over to Charon-VAX. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:44:44 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <3db95$4665e753$cef882ba$14202@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> davidc@montagar.com wrote: > > And again, exactly like I stated at the beginning - "what next faux > pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS". What I see > here is a case where there is NO circumstance where HP could succeed > in your mind. Even when there is marketing, it's "not enough" or "too > late" or whatever other excuse you want to choose for the moment. If > HP puts out something that doesn't mention VMS, its touted as another > "sure sign" that HP is trying to kill VMS. > > You are actually becoming part of the PROBLEM. > > I actually see a lot of work out there for porting various libraries/ > apps, but part of the issue is there isn't much organization. Maybe > we need a "SourceForge" environment for OpenVMS developers where we > can work together better. Oh David .... http://h30261.www3.hp.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=71087&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=100326 9&highlight= HP estimates FY07 revenue will be approximately $100.5 billion to $100.9 billion. Second Quarter 2007 Results - Net revenue up 13% year-over-year to $25.5 billion - GAAP operating profit of $2.1 billion, or $0.65 earnings per share, up 27% year-over-year excluding a $0.15 tax settlement gain in Q2 FY06 - Non-GAAP operating profit of $2.3 billion, or $0.70 earnings per share, up 30% year-over-year excluding a $0.15 tax settlement gain in Q2 FY06 - Record cash flow from operations of $4.2 billion Extrapolating, HP will earn somewhere in the vicinity of $8 Billion after-tax in FY2007. How much of this is being spent on VMS marketing and advertising, excluding the costs of Boot Camp? Last I saw a one-off full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal was about $100k, less if you bought a bunch of pages either in the same edition or over multiple days. What's $1 million in identifiable, VMS-specific advertising targeting the C-levels that read the WSJ or Information Week vs. HP's profit this year? According to my rocket science calculator it's 0.0125% of HP's estimated after-tax profits. How come HP's 'rocket scientists' don't figure VMS is worth that amount of expenditure? It's because they've already killed VMS in the market's eyes. Name 20 new-to-VMS customers (ie. replaced linux/unix or Windows with VMS, or who have implemented decent-sized VMS configurations as an adjunct) since January this year whose annual sales are $100MM or more. Betcha you can't. Betcha HP can't either. -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV and customer base. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:49:10 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <6b73a$4665e85d$cef882ba$14597@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article <5cl50bF2v760eU3@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu > (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >> This is more meaningful than you might think. We still have a VMS >> machine here for academic use. And every faculty, staff and student >> has an account on it. How does this show up in the VMS constant? I >> am sure that the existence of this machine is counted in HP's numbers >> somewhere. Only problem is, no one uses it. Students haven't used >> it for years. The last users were dinosaur faculty who still read >> their email there. But the University Datacenter fixed that. They >> stopped letting it receive or send email. Now, it sits int he >> computer room consuming electricity and generating heat. I ran the >> last VMS machines for academic use and as everyone here already >> knows, they were shutdown last year. So, I guess at least here, I >> was that ONE GUY. > > OK, you're one guy, and I know another one guy. That's two guys. It > used to be, not 2 users, but several thousand users. At this rate of growth of 'continuing' academic use, pretty soon VMS will again be running at all universities world-wide :-( -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:56:43 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <4666064B.C4A43CBA@spam.comcast.net> davidc@montagar.com wrote: > > On Jun 5, 7:49 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > > But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you denigrate > > have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have stated > > numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of crap > > like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! > > The marketing came much later ..., but at least it CAME! > - after a huge amount of development, > distributions, and more were done. Not only that, but were done by a > wide variety of individuals, volunteers, and groups - not companies or > marketers. In fact, much of the actual software development still > comes from these individuals, volunteers, and groups. > > > Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications > > can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require fork() > > and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of which > > VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. > > You see, you still declare failure before even beginning. You > rationalize porting of 100% of applications as impossible by revolving > around 2 minor things. I wouldn't have thought of the GUI under-pinnings (X11) as "minor", neither that nor the much-sought-after fork(). That's like saying porting my RMS-based DEC BASIC application to UN*X is a minor task, even though there's no suitable compiler or UN*X-based RMS sustitute available (without going to third-party add-ins), or like saying that a lack of ODS-5 would not be an issue for Oracle, SWS, Mozilla, etc. which depend on mixed-case support in the filesystem. C'mon, Dave - get your perspective back! > > The codebase that makes up the *AMP suite (Apache, MySQL, PERL/PHP) > and Mozilla as all been successfully ported to OpenVMS. Guess what? > fork() and X11 didn't stop them. How many of the aforementioned require either fork() or X11 (hint: none of those are GUI app.'s). > [snip] > I actually see a lot of work out there for porting various libraries/ > apps, but part of the issue is there isn't much organization. Maybe > we need a "SourceForge" environment for OpenVMS developers where we > can work together better. Agreed. I'd even be willing to host repositories, if necessary, so long it would be economically feasible for me (would likely need dues-paying members of a formal organization, corporate sponsorship, or some other way to pay for better than residential broadband and electrical supplies). Given that my current VMS gig is extremely tenuous, I don't really see that as possible any other way. I'm a working stiff, like the rest of c.o.v. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 14:08:43 +1000 From: "Gremlin" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <136ccqgi8jca08b@corp.supernews.com> Hi Bill (and all) I run a postrgraduate course in (amongst other things) commercial operating systems security. We cover (in some detail) z/OS, i5/OS, OpenVMS, HP/UX 11i, Solaris 10, Windows Server and several Linuxes. This is a "hands on" course demonstrating practical background, risks, vulnerabilities, commercial considerations, standards and frameworks (SOX, HIPPA, ISO17799, ISO27001, ISM3, AS/NZS4360 etc) and how "commercial" operating systems have different risk profiles by the way they are designed and operated. Also included is the opportunity to hack into any of these OSs as they are installed as plain vanilla installations with a web and mail server running, patched according to the vendors' specifications. So, Solaris 10, Windows, Linux and HP/UX are regularly hacked and trashed. The students all fail to get into z/OS, i5/OS and OpenVMS - then, as part of their assignments, most arrive at the ame opinion (even the Linux promoters), that OpenVMS seems really good - why haven't they heard of it? So at least at this univiersity in my courses they get some exposure and come to realise that the commerical world is not just Windows/Linux/UNIX - perhaps HP could pay attention? "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message news:5cl99aF307t9eU1@mid.individual.net... > In article > , > "Main, Kerry" writes: >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On >>> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >>> Sent: June 5, 2007 8:50 AM >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>> Subject: Re: Story Time >>>=20 >>> In article <1181020029.542678.272580@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, >>> davidc@montagar.com writes: >>> > On Jun 4, 5:13 pm, Sue wrote: >>> >> Dear Newsgroup, >>> >> So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts >>> >> everyday saying the same thing. >>> > >>> > True. I get tired of reading posts by the same folks telling me >>> (and >>> > others that stumble into this group) how OpenVMS is dying, what next >>> > faux pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS, yada >>> > yada yada. No good deed seems to go unpunished, every win is back- >>> > spinned into a loss. >>> > >>> > By these standards, Linux should not exist, there was no money, no >>> > support, no marketshare. Worse than what OpenVMS has. But it >>> exists. >>>=20 >>> But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you >>> denigrate >>> have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have stated >>> numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of >>> crap >>> like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! >>>=20 >>> > >>> > Because for the most part, people don't complain, they contribute. >>> > There's fewer applications available you say? Then port something. >>> > There are tons of quality applications that are GPL'd than would be >>> > great to port to OpenVMS. Not anything useful? I call BS. After >>> > all, what exactly do you think make a Linux distribution today, >>> > anyway. >>>=20 >>> Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications >>> can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require fork() >>> and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of which >>> VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. >>>=20 >> >> Please, lets forget the hype here ok? >> >> Are you saying that because OpenVMS does not support fork (a UNIX way of >> doing IO), that its future is doomed? > > That's not what I said at all. Someone else hinted that porting > Unix/Linux Open Source Software was somehow trivial and could be > done by the people here in their spare time. I merely pointed out > that porting from Unix/Linux to VMS is anything but trivial unless > the program itself is trivial (and therefore of little if any value.) > > Oh, and fork() is not "a UNIX way of doing IO". > >> >> Geez, I guess Microsoft will be heart broken to hear their platform is >> doomed because it does not support fork either. > > Microsoft's OSes already support all the useful applications they need. > They are not in need of someone porting OSS in their spare time. And, > > Funny, I have fork() on the XP box on my desk (at least under Cygwin, > I haven't done any native Windows development in a long time so I can't > say if they have it now, too.) > >> >> There are many ways to accomplish a given task. In some cases, there are >> better ways of doing the same thing. > > OK, so how would you accomplish the equivalent of fork() in all this > OSS people think we should be porting to VMS? If you know a "better > way" stop keeping it under your hat. > >> >> As far as the University scene goes, they are under huge, huge pressure >> to reduce costs, so the various Colleges and Departments within the >> University are jumping on the open source, Linux stuff not because it is >> technically better, but rather because it is low cost (at least when you >> look at the initial cost only).=20 > > Nice excuse, but I just told you they have a VMS machine here for academic > use. It is running all the time. No one uses it. Now, why would that > be? > >> >> However, like the old saying goes, "the grass is not always greener on >> the other side" and these same Universities are now struggling with >> monthly security patching, version control, license monitoring, change >> management and yet still keep in line with regulatory requirements like >> FERPA, SOX, HIPPA etc.=20 > > Yeah, keep telling yourself that. They are "struggling" so hard I'll > bet you get a thousand calls a day asking for you to deliver new Itanium > VMS systems to Universities all over the world. :-) > >> >> And lets not kid ourselves - the University environment is rife with >> what some might call "internal hackers". > > Not sure what that's supposed to mean. The days of the student hacker > are long gone. Most of these kids would much rather spend an evening > in the local bar than in a computer lab today. As for "internal" vs. > "external", read any security trade rag. The majority of threats are > from inside, University or business. That's just the way it is today. > >> >> What is happening with OpenVMS at Universities is no different than what >> is also happening to Solaris and AIX at Universities .. > > Really?? We have a course here that runs every Spring that still > has the students installing, configuring, administering and developing > software on Solaris. We still have a Sparc system in the lab. This > course does not now and never has included any, even casual, mention > or exposure to VMS, even whe we were still running it here in the > department. Read my lips, there is academic use of BSDUnix, Linux, > Solaris, Windows, QNX, BrickOS, etc. etc. There is no academic use > of VMS. > >> same thing >> happening to them as well. I know as I just recently completed a >> multi-platform consolidation engagement at a large US University. > > Oh, you are talking about administrative use. Well, that's is different. > We still use VMS administratively. But the University is tied to Banner > and Oracle, not the OS. If Banner moved to Windows Server 2005 tomorrow, > so would the University. It's just what people have been saying for > ages here. It's the applications, not the OS. As more and more people > (like CDC) begin to see VSM as not in their future the applications will > move off of VMS and we all know what the current users of those > application > will do. > > It really is time to read the handwriting on the wall. If the people > inside of HP can't convince them to start pushing VMS in order to > strengthen it's position in the industry, what chance do outsiders > have? While I am in the market for a new position and would love to > work on VMS, I am not likely to bet my future on it. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 04:55:50 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: Ron Johnson wrote: > On 06/05/07 08:23, Main, Kerry wrote: > [snip] > >> >> fork (a UNIX way of >> doing IO) > > > Say what? > I think what Kerry means :-) is VMS needs a UNIX way of doing I/O in order to implement a UNIX style fork. (I.E. fork clones the I/O environment so that the child process can access the FILEs previously open by the parent process.) Yeah, that's the ticket! -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:56:55 -0600 From: Jim Mehlhop Subject: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: <4665a3e3$0$496$815e3792@news.qwest.net> Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:58:43 -0000 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: <1181069923.328311.277270@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 1:56 pm, Jim Mehlhop wrote: > Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) > connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? Hmmm, I woudl go the other way around. Leave the Alpha with the Twisted Pair (DE500?) Find a no-brain network hub / black box to connect to thin. I use a "microHub/8 TP1008C" for this purpose. I'm sure there are many alternatives. fwiw, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:03:13 -0600 From: Jim Mehlhop Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: <4665B371.2020901@mehlhop.org> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > On Jun 5, 1:56 pm, Jim Mehlhop wrote: >> Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) >> connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? > > Hmmm, I woudl go the other way around. > > Leave the Alpha with the Twisted Pair (DE500?) > Find a no-brain network hub / black box to connect to thin. > I use a "microHub/8 TP1008C" for this purpose. > I'm sure there are many alternatives. > > fwiw, > Hein. > > That was my thought as well, but I told them I would try to find out IF there was a thinwire board that was supported on Alpha. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 19:26:41 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: <5clrnhF3171q7U2@mid.individual.net> In article <4665B371.2020901@mehlhop.org>, Jim Mehlhop writes: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >> On Jun 5, 1:56 pm, Jim Mehlhop wrote: >>> Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) >>> connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? >> >> Hmmm, I woudl go the other way around. >> >> Leave the Alpha with the Twisted Pair (DE500?) >> Find a no-brain network hub / black box to connect to thin. >> I use a "microHub/8 TP1008C" for this purpose. >> I'm sure there are many alternatives. >> >> fwiw, >> Hein. >> >> > > > That was my thought as well, but I told them I would try to find out IF > there was a thinwire board that was supported on Alpha. Were there ever PCI Thinnet cards? 3Com maybe? I'll have to look in my spare parts closet (Anybody here remember Fibber McGee's Closet?) and see if I have any, just in case someone says there actually was one supported and you have to go looking for it. :-) I was curious enough to actually go and look. At first glance I could see no PCI Thinnet cards. Geing as I have 10BaseT ISA cards I may have been right that Thinnet was dead before the advent of PCI but I did think of another possibility. I am fairly certain there are Alpha supported cards with AUI connectors. I would bet BlackBox. among others, would still sell Thinnet transcievers. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:35:12 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: <4665ba65$0$8400$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> You find them in the OpenVMS SPD. ;-) I assume that you mean Alphas with PCI slots. E.g. DE450 (PCI combo) DE435 (PCI combo) You'll probably find DE450's on Ebay. Jim Mehlhop wrote: > Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) > connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:01:58 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: Jim Mehlhop wrote: > Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) > connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? I would look at an outfit such as Black Box for a twisted pair to thin wire coax adaptor. Finding a PCI board that supports coax is one thing. Ensuring it is supported by VMS is another. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:10:03 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: In article <1181069923.328311.277270@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > On Jun 5, 1:56 pm, Jim Mehlhop wrote: > > Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) > > connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? > > Hmmm, I woudl go the other way around. > > Leave the Alpha with the Twisted Pair (DE500?) > Find a no-brain network hub / black box to connect to thin. > I use a "microHub/8 TP1008C" for this purpose. > I'm sure there are many alternatives. Right. There are small NetGear hubs which have a BNC connector in addition to a few twisted-pair ports. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:38:23 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: <4665C9BF.7000807@comcast.net> Jim Mehlhop wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > >> On Jun 5, 1:56 pm, Jim Mehlhop wrote: >> >>> Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) >>> connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? >> >> >> Hmmm, I woudl go the other way around. >> >> Leave the Alpha with the Twisted Pair (DE500?) >> Find a no-brain network hub / black box to connect to thin. >> I use a "microHub/8 TP1008C" for this purpose. >> I'm sure there are many alternatives. >> >> fwiw, >> Hein. >> >> > > > That was my thought as well, but I told them I would try to find out IF > there was a thinwire board that was supported on Alpha. > > > Do you mind one with a built-in SCSI interface? P/N 54-23248-01 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:47:09 -0700 From: Crabs Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: Jim Mehlhop wrote: > Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) > connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? DE450 Has all three protocols, thin, thick & AUI. Works on PWS's, should work on any Alpha server. I have a pile of them, glad to send you one if you'll pay for the shipping. I'm in the Sacramento CA area. TomC tccrab@(*ihatespam*)sunset.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 01:52:09 +0000 (UTC) From: Rick Jones Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Were there ever PCI Thinnet cards? Apart from those someone mentioned from DEC, HP did sell a 10/100 PCI NIC for HP 9000's. The NIC had three connectors on it - BNC, AUI and RJ45. IIRC it used a Digital 21140 chip. Been so long though I cannot recall the part number, only that it was driven by the btlan6 driver (pre grand btlanN merge in HP-UX 11.11). rick jones -- firebug n, the idiot who tosses a lit cigarette out his car window these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :) feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 19:45:30 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <4665bd5a$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <1181064128.626642.89200@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" writes: >On Jun 5, 12:34 pm, t...@kednos.com wrote: >> > >Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profiles >> > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html >> >> I couldn't get that page to open up. > >It worked for me. Firefox 2.0.0.4 and Safari 2.0.4 (419.3) on Mac OS >X 10.4.8 OpenVMS Website was down/unreachable today for hours. Network Switch again? -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:05:54 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <00A68B03.183C5425@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <4665bd5a$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: > > >In article <1181064128.626642.89200@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" writes: >>On Jun 5, 12:34 pm, t...@kednos.com wrote: >>> > >Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profiles >>> > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html >>> >>> I couldn't get that page to open up. >> >>It worked for me. Firefox 2.0.0.4 and Safari 2.0.4 (419.3) on Mac OS >>X 10.4.8 > >OpenVMS Website was down/unreachable today for hours. >Network Switch again? Not a great accolade for HP networking equipment. I'm assuming HP would use their own networking equipment; of course, I could be all wet though too! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:43:26 -0700 From: signem@gmail.com Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181076206.282941.93570@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 9:35 am, Dan Foster wrote: > In article <1181048103.727204.288...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, sig...@gmail.com wrote: > > > I just sent an email to the address for you in our database and > > included the phone number we have. If those are not correct, please > > reply to that message. I would really like to get you "on the list" so > > that everyone can know what a VMS team player you really are. > > Pardon me -- Mr. Schenkenberger consistently describes himself as a VMS > bigot. Works hard on projects that makes VMS look good, as well as > donating resources to the community which indirectly makes VMS visible. > > I do believe he has been every much of a 'team player' for the VMS cause. > > > I've sent you emails myself in the past, inviting you to participate > > in various events, but no response, so perhaps all of our mails get > > caught by your spam filter. > > I find that remark uncalled for. He has the right to decline to attend > marketing or promotional events or to reply to things unless it's of > particular interest; is his hard work not good enough? > > Perhaps he prefers to focus on reading up on new tools, techniques, or > chase bug reports, look after his family and their needs for > companionship and support, or pursue personal non-work interests? > > He has a free will choice; please respect his, particularly since he is > not employed by your employer. > > Hey. He's flamed me in the past. I probably deserved it. ;) I'm not a > VAXman puppet. I'm saying it because I genuinely do mean what I write. > > Please try to not take it personally. Hey, look at it this way: if he > really wasn't interested in VMS, would he have had gone to the effort to > secure multiple HP Integrity servers, learned the nuances of porting to > that platform, asked why he wasn't on the list? It's because he appears > to be interested. So please cut him some slack here. All right? > > Hewlett Packard has enough issues already and doesn't need to be > badmouthing someone whom has made a serious effort to promote OpenVMS in > his own way. Please don't go down that road. *PLEASE*. He's not the > "enemy". Solaris, Linux, Microsoft, IBM/AIX, whomever is. Keep focus. > > -Dan > > (Son of a former HP human resources manager. Dad was proud of HP as a > company. Let's live up to that lofty standard if you work for HP.) Dan, I think you came in in the middle of this movie. I was responding to a comment that Brian made about not being on the list. Since I own the list, I chose to comment about why he was not on it. I think it is wonderful that you should jump to his defense. I probably would do so myself if someone was being unkind to him. I know that he is a really nice guy and a great supporter. But he is not on the list for some reason and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. And, saying that my comment about unanswered emails falling into his spam filter was uncalled for is in itself an uncalled for comment. There was absolutely nothing wrong with what I said. I was assuming that my mail was treated as spam and that was the reason for no response. So, chill, please... Signe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 06:46:54 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: Hi Brian, > I'd wager that HP doesn't associate itself with its usenet vocal customers. ;) I don't think "HP" deserves any blame; you haven't been expunged from the DSPP list: - http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/mop/mop_Partner_Search_Results_IDX/1,2719,,00.html Is there any duplication/redundancy going on here? Maybe Hein could do some data re-org or normalization with these "lists" :-) Cheers Richard Maher PS. "The best way to replicate data is not at all." - Mark Bradley wrote in message news:00A68A6F.AE856667@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > > > > >Hi Brian, > > > >> Nice to see I'm missing from that list. > > > >You're not alone :-( > > I'd wager that HP doesn't associate itself with its usenet vocal customers. ;) > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:22:08 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181089328.695994.265810@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 2:05 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <4665bd5...@news.langstoeger.at>, p...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: > > > > >In article <1181064128.626642.89...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinha...@yahoo.com" writes: > >>On Jun 5, 12:34 pm, t...@kednos.com wrote: > >>> > >Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profiles > >>> > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html > > >>> I couldn't get that page to open up. > > >>It worked for me. Firefox 2.0.0.4 and Safari 2.0.4 (419.3) on Mac OS > >>X 10.4.8 > > >OpenVMS Website was down/unreachable today for hours. > >Network Switch again? > > Not a great accolade for HP networking equipment. I'm assuming HP would > use their own networking equipment; of course, I could be all wet though > too! > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" Brian is everything ok? You seem to be looking for issues. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:37:10 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: On 06/05/07 12:45, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: > In article <1181064128.626642.89200@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" writes: >> On Jun 5, 12:34 pm, t...@kednos.com wrote: >>>>> Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profiles >>>>> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html >>> I couldn't get that page to open up. >> It worked for me. Firefox 2.0.0.4 and Safari 2.0.4 (419.3) on Mac OS >> X 10.4.8 > > OpenVMS Website was down/unreachable today for hours. Orrrrrrrr, is HP actively trying to subvert VMS? > Network Switch again? > -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 00:56:17 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <00A68B3C.6CD8AA42@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <1181089328.695994.265810@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Sue writes: > > >On Jun 5, 2:05 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <4665bd5...@news.langstoeger.at>, p...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: >> >> >> >> >In article <1181064128.626642.89...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinha...@yahoo.com" writes: >> >>On Jun 5, 12:34 pm, t...@kednos.com wrote: >> >>> > >Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profiles >> >>> > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html >> >> >>> I couldn't get that page to open up. >> >> >>It worked for me. Firefox 2.0.0.4 and Safari 2.0.4 (419.3) on Mac OS >> >>X 10.4.8 >> >> >OpenVMS Website was down/unreachable today for hours. >> >Network Switch again? >> >> Not a great accolade for HP networking equipment. I'm assuming HP would >> use their own networking equipment; of course, I could be all wet though >> too! >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > >Brian is everything ok? You seem to be looking for issues. Sue, If _everything_ was OK, there'd be no issues for me to point out. ;) Today I asked what "Integrity Ready" and "Integrity Certified" meant. I still don't know. What is an "Integrity Certification Letter"? I then pointed out that I have "Integrity Ready/Certified/Capable/Ported/ Running/something-or-other-semantic" apps that are not listed on the page pointed to by the link in your post. Later, I point out that I don't think having the VMS web site unavailable says much for a company that is the business of selling business critical hardware. I'm certain I'm not alone there. I don't think that my astute commentary is as derisive as most of the day to day derision posted here. Your opinion to the contrary is welcome. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:18:42 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <46660B72.71F0D7@spam.comcast.net> signem@gmail.com wrote: > [snip] > For Integrity, we have gone from zero to over 1300 applications > committed by partners. Over 1100 of those are available now. How does that compare to the app. count for Alpha prior to "the Alphacide"? ...to VAX at its peak? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:28:33 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <46660DC1.45F39DDA@spam.comcast.net> signem@gmail.com wrote: > [snip] > We welcome input from vocal customers and partners. Come on folks. Put > your energies to positive use. A word about myself, by the way: I "suffer", if you want to call it that, from Asperger's Syndrome. It's considered a form of autism (I disagree). It means that I am rather like a mirror: I reflect reality accurately rather than sugar-coating it or editing it for political purposes. Try not to take offense at what I say - one does not take offense at everyday reality. Simply reflecting it should not be indictable, IMHO. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:57:30 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181095050.228297.231360@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 8:56 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <1181089328.695994.265...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Sue writes: > > > > > > > > >On Jun 5, 2:05 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> In article <4665bd5...@news.langstoeger.at>, p...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: > > >> >In article <1181064128.626642.89...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinha...@yahoo.com" writes: > >> >>On Jun 5, 12:34 pm, t...@kednos.com wrote: > >> >>> > >Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profiles > >> >>> > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html > > >> >>> I couldn't get that page to open up. > > >> >>It worked for me. Firefox 2.0.0.4 and Safari 2.0.4 (419.3) on Mac OS > >> >>X 10.4.8 > > >> >OpenVMS Website was down/unreachable today for hours. > >> >Network Switch again? > > >> Not a great accolade for HP networking equipment. I'm assuming HP would > >> use their own networking equipment; of course, I could be all wet though > >> too! > > >> -- > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > >Brian is everything ok? You seem to be looking for issues. > > Sue, > > If _everything_ was OK, there'd be no issues for me to point out. ;) > > Today I asked what "Integrity Ready" and "Integrity Certified" meant. I > still don't know. What is an "Integrity Certification Letter"? > > I then pointed out that I have "Integrity Ready/Certified/Capable/Ported/ > Running/something-or-other-semantic" apps that are not listed on the page > pointed to by the link in your post. > > Later, I point out that I don't think having the VMS web site unavailable > says much for a company that is the business of selling business critical > hardware. I'm certain I'm not alone there. > > I don't think that my astute commentary is as derisive as most of the day > to day derision posted here. Your opinion to the contrary is welcome. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - One of the Partners sent me the following >From the top of the cited web page "Following is a list of featured OpenVMS partners. This list includes partners that have ported their applications to HP Integrity servers (Integrity ready) and partners that have submitted certification letters (Integrity certified)." There's a Word document the HP DSPP folks want to have extracted, signed by a corporate officer, and faxed to some random part of HP. Faxed twice a year, IIRC. That's the entirety of the difference between "ready" and "certified". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:54:28 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181098468.787362.75790@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 4, 6:47 pm, Sue wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Skonetski, Susan > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 4:12 PM > To: Skonetski, Susan > Subject: OpenVMS Update - Ok for external - Monday June 4th > > Dear Internal and External Distribution lists, > > Enclosed please find the latest VMS Update sorry for the delay, I > think the size explains it. > > Folks where do I start, there is so much to talk about. Probably with > the usual disclaimer that this is not an official newsletter just an > email between friends. We have had so much happen, hopefully you have > seen the Blades announcement from last week. The Boot Camp was the > biggest thing recently which has also received excellent customer > feedback. At this point I can honestly say the ball room for the > Keynotes was standing room only and the team did an amazing job. At > the Partners Roundhouse on Tuesday evening it was packed, there were > folks 5 deep to look at VMS running on HP Blades and a variety of > Integrity Servers. There were over 185 sessions and we added 4 based > on customer request during the week. > > Also as you read some of our Partner news and quotes on other web > sites its very interesting to see who some of our customers are. Also > of note is the Parsec Operating System IQ test (see 6.5). > > All URLs work, they may wrap so please check before sending me email. > > Warm Regards as always, > Sue > > Table of Contents > 1.0 From OpenVMS Engineering > 1.1 HP OpenVMS Announces Support for HP Blade Systems > 1.2 Letter from Ann McQuaid > 2.0 Sue's Fav's > 2.1 OpenVMS Roadmaps > 2.2 Server matrix > 2.3 Partner application A-Z listing > 2.4 Where to purchase Alphas and Options > 2.5 DECedout > 3.0 From OpenVMS.org > 3.1 Audio Updates > 3.2 Golden Eggs > 4.0 In the Press > 5.0 The National Computer Museum at Bletchley Park > 6.0 From our Partners: > 6.1 XUIS - The British Library read up on ConsoleWorks" > 6.2 Announcement from XUIS > 6.3 Unicenter System Watchdog for OpenVMS r2.4 SP3 Japanese OpenV= MS > Certification > 6.4 ISE Software - New live Flash demos available, customer succe= ss > story available > **6.5 Parsec Operating System IQ Quiz ****** > 7.0 Press Release - Legacy Technologies Releases SecurityGuard for > Itanium > > ------------------------------ > 1.0 From OpenVMS Engineering > > Now for the updated information. > > 1.1 Biggest news - HP OpenVMS Announces Support for HP BladeSystemshttp:/= /h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/cclass_support.html > > 1.2 Letter from Ann McQuaidhttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/annmcquaid.html > > ------------------------- > 2.0 Sue's Fav's > > 2.1 I get asked this just about every day. Here is the URL for the > OpenVMS Roadmaps they are public.http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadma= p/openvms_roadmaps.htm > > 2.2 Here is another very useful site for you. Please go to this site, > it will answer many of your questions. HP OpenVMS for Integrity > servers and AlphaServer systems > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/servermatrix.html > > 2.3 I know I put this one in a lot, but it is constantly changing > > Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profileshttp://h710= 00.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html > ---------------- > > 2.4 Where to buy Alphas if you still need them > > EMEA (Europe, Middle East, Africa), AP, Japanhttp://h40046.www4.hp.com/ > Americashttp://h20330.www2.hp.com/hpfinancialservices/cache/257411-0-0-22= 5-12... > ---------------- > > 2.5 *****Anyone that remembers DEC (you do not need to have worked for > DEC, I checked and have the email to confirm) can join - ...a website > established to benefit anyone and everyone who ever worked for Digital > Equipment Corporation, regardless of where they live or for whom they > work nowhttp://www.decedout.org/****** > > ----------------- > > 3.0 From OpenVMS.orgwww.openvms.org > > 3.1 Audio Updates -http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=3DVPN > Make sure you give feedback - you make a difference > > Did you know that openvms.org was in three languages, French, Dutch > and Italian? There is also an article with blogs from the boot camp > along with attendee quotes. > > 3.2 Golden Eggs - This is one of my favorite parts of openvms.org - If > you are new Golden Eggs is a configuration library done voluntarily by > Matti Patari, Helsinki Finland. He has done some amazing work > including Alpha, Integrity (all sizes) and Prolient, VMS and other > OS's. Take a look > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=3DGoldenEggs > -------------------------- > > 4.0 In the Press > > http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS9469673388.html Mimer > Information Technology is readying a new version of its SQL database > for mobile devices. > > Slashdot question -http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=3D07/05/12/1059= 258 > > ---------------------------- > 5.0 The National Computer Museum at Bletchley Park > > From: Kevin Murrell [kevin_AT_tnmoc_DOT_org] > The National Computer Museum at Bletchley Park in the UK run their web > accessible retro operating systems on an OpenVMS host under the > Hobbyist programme. SIMH is used to simulate hardware for running > several early Digital operating systems, such as OS8, RT11 and RSTS. > It was important for the museum to able to provide a secure and > resilient system for computer historians and scientists - the system > manager at the museum, Kevin Murrell, said he wouldn't consider > putting a system on the web, and offering open logins, unless he was > sure both the server and their internal business systems were > absolutely secure. The system runs on an Alpha Server 800. The museum > has several earlier machines running VMS include a VAX 750 and a > MicroVAX 3. The retro O/S emulation machine can be accessed viahttp://ret= robeep.no-ip.organd is available 24/7. > > Find out more about the Museum here:http://www.ccht.co.uk/index.htm > ------------------ > 6.0 From our Partners: > > 6.1 Folks you have to look at this on the XUIS web site "The British > Library read up on ConsoleWorks"http://www.xuis.com/documents/consolework= s/74.pdf > > 6.2 Also from XUIS -http://www.xuis.com/products/schedule/ from > their web site - Most batch job scheduling software is native to only > one platform; not XS-EnterpriseSCHEDULE, which is extending the > boundaries of automated job scheduling as the pre-eminent job > scheduler for Windows, AIX, OpenVMS, HPUX, Linux, Solaris and Tru64 > UNIX. > > ------------------- > > 6.3 Unicenter System Watchdog for OpenVMS r2.4 SP3 Japanese OpenVMS > Certification > > CA is pleased to announce certification of Unicenter System Watchdog > for OpenVMS r2.4 SP3 when used on Japanese OpenVMS. This is an English > only product there is no double-byte support for non-English > characters. No patches are required for Japanese OpenVMS. Please refer > to the support matrix for product patches or version support for > OpenVMS Alpha. All English OpenVMS product patches would be required > on Japanese OpenVMS For more information seehttp://supportconnectw.ca.com= /public/uniwatchdogopenvms/uniwatchdog_s... > > Robert E. Puishys Jr. > CA > > ------------------------ > > 6.4 ISE Software > > New live Flash demos available -http://www.i-s-e.com/ > EnterpriseSCHEDULE is the job scheduler that runs native on Windows, > OpenVMS, HP-UX, AIX, Linux, Solaris and Tru64UNIX. With the release of > the new Web client for browser based scheduling and the Windows NT/ > 2000/XP client, jobs can now be managed, controlled and monitored from > a single workstation across all varieties of operating systems. > > http://www.i-s-e.com/Success/ISE_Success_Story_36/- Campus Credit > Union > > ------------------------- > 6.5 Parsec OS IQ Quiz > > For all of you OpenVMS and Tru64 fanatics, PARSEC Group has initiated > an IQ quiz to test your knowledge of the best operating systems on the > planet. The quiz questions range from user level through internals > with a few trivia questions thrown in just for fun. You can sign up to > have a multiple-choice question sent to you via email either once or > twice a week. There is even a Hall-Of-Fame set up to give recognition > to those of you real OpenVMS and Tru64 wizards. Come on and give it a > try!! Signing up is easy, just go tohttp://www.parsec.com/general/iqquiz.= php > to sign up today. > > 7.0 Press Release - Legacy Technologies Releases SecurityGuard for > Itanium Legacy Technologies Releases SecurityGuard for Itanium The > most powerful security product offered on the OpenVMS platform --- now > available on Itanium. > > Spanish Fork, UT - October 1, 2006 -- Legacy Technologies, LLC the > leader in Security Software for the OpenVMS platform, announced today > that the most powerful security product available for OpenVMS, > SecurityGuard, is now available for Itanium. > > Security Guard augments the security that is inherent in OpenVMS. The > software does not seek to replace security features built into the > operating system, but rather adds security to existing areas not > protected. It contains three separate security products (AUDIT, > INTRUDER ALERT, and KBLOCK) that when combined make up the > SecurityGuard product, the most powerful Security tool available for > Itanium. > > =B7 Audit enhances native security by providing terminal session > logging, audit trail reduction, analysis, and reporting, not otherwise > available on OpenVMS systems. > > =B7 Intruder Alert provides real-time intrusion detection and respo= nse > capabilities, which enable administrators to proactively manage > computing environment security. > > =B7 KBLock enhances native OpenVMS Security for VAX/Alpha and Itaniu= m, > by providing easily implemented protections to unattended active > terminals. Such functionality is not otherwise available in standard > OpenVMS environments. > > About ProvN > You may notice we have a new name: ProvN. We are committed to > providing the same great products and support. Our products have > "proven" to be effective both financially and technically in today's > ever demanding enterprise systems. We look forward to continuing to > provide ProvN solutions. > ProvN provides a wide range of IT solutions for organizations of all > sizes using OpenVMS, UNIX, Windows, NT and XP Client-Server computing > environments. The long standing stability of these IT solutions and > our superior technical services are the hallmark of ProvN's success. > ProvN is committed to taking their customers well into the 21st > century. > Contact: > > Julia Layton > Legacy Technologies > 8252 South 1200 West > Spanish Fork, UT 84660 > Phone: 801-446-5739 > Fax 801-798-8811 > Jul...@Legacy-2000.comwww.Legacy-2000.com At the risk of giving folks more ammunition for taking something positive and starting a whole negative topic and missing all the positive information. Did you even see the part about joining the DEC web site? Sue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:32:52 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: Sue wrote: > OpenVMS partners. This list includes partners that have ported their > applications to HP Integrity servers (Integrity ready) It is a real shame that the developper program is tied to some specific architecure instead fof the VMS operating system. There should be a *VMS* developper program that is irrespective of what platform the ISV is supporting. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:40:38 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <37b37$46662ce9$cef8887a$20827@TEKSAVVY.COM> Sue wrote: > Did you even see the part about joining the DEC web site? The one about http://www.decedout.org that invites people to join it, even if they are not ex-dec employees ? No, I didn't see it. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 06:24:20 +0200 From: Didier Morandi Subject: [OT] 6-JUN-1944 Message-ID: <466636F4.4030403@spam.com> Thank you all. Didier (French) --- You like Paint Ball? Discover Airsoft: www.airsoftlabs.fr ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.307 ************************