INFO-VAX Fri, 08 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 312 Contents: Re: %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR from TCPIP SHOW ROUTES... Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt Bandwidth Test cifs and external auth Re: cifs and external auth Re: cifs and external auth Re: cifs and external auth Re: cifs and external auth Re: cifs and external auth Re: Global warming NOT causing more hurricanes UK scientists say Re: Global warming NOT causing more hurricanes UK scientists say Re: Global warming NOT causing more hurricanes UK scientists say Re: Global warming NOT causing more hurricanes UK scientists say Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time timetime Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time time MI5 Persecution: Goldfish and Piranha 29/9/95 (5113) MI5 Persecution: Options 21/9/95 (571) MI5 Persecution: Question and Answer 27/9/95 (2085) MI5 Persecution: Watch Out, Forger About 27/9/95 (3599) Re: porting ignorance (was Re: Story Time) Re: Restoring an IMAGE backup to a BIND volume set ? Re: Restoring an IMAGE backup to a BIND volume set ? Re: Restoring an IMAGE backup to a BIND volume set ? Re: Story Time Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Re: using RBLs interactively Re: using RBLs interactively Re: using RBLs interactively Re: using RBLs interactively Re: using RBLs interactively ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 03:51:01 -0700 From: Galen Subject: Re: %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR from TCPIP SHOW ROUTES... Message-ID: <1181299861.057789.152990@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> > > If I were you, I would try > $SET WATCH FILE/CLASS=all > > and then issue the TCPIP command you know will generate the error. > Just prior to the error, you will see which file TCPIP is trying to > access and this may give you a clue. The only file it accessed before the error was UCX$IPC_SHR and that succeeded. It doesn't even attempt to access TCPIP$HOST. If I do a SHOW HOST followed by SHOW ROUTE (the case that works) it's different: SHOW HOST reads TCPIP$HOST as expected. The subsequent SHOW ROUTE reads TCPIP$HOST, then TCPIP$NETWORK. WHY doesn't the first SHOW ROUTE also try to read TCPIP$HOST??? To further confuse things, we don't have this problem on any of our several other systems that also run VMS V7.3-1 and TCPIP V5.3 with no TCPIP ECO installed. (I failed to mention the VMS731 ECOs that are installed on all our V7.3-1 systems: PCSI V2.0, UPDATE V6.0, GRAPHICS V4.0, VMSMUP V1.0, and SYSINI V1.0.) As Richard indicated there is always an ECO kit for TCP/IP. We hadn't installed it here because this system is a testbed that is supposed to be configured exactly like our production systems (NONE of which have this problem.) I'll check into the possibility of trying that but it could be a while before we can. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:24:11 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt Message-ID: In article , John Santos writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article > > , > > norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > > > > >>Actually, this becomes moot, because after the UPDATE patch is release, it > >>starts to become a prerequisite for new patches. > >>Thus, even if one has installed all ECO's in the latest UPDATE ECO, one > >>must perforce install the UPDATE ECO in order to > >>have later-released ECO's install successfully. > > > > > > OK, but by knowing what new stuff is in it, I can decide if I want to > > install it soon, or perhaps later (maybe even just before the ECO after > > it). > > > > What do you mean by "new" stuff? ECOs that haven't previously been > released as separate kits? Or ECOs that you haven't already installed? The latter. > If the 1st meaning, the answer is "NONE". AFAIK, there has *never* been > an ECO included in an UPDATE kit that wasn't previously issued as a > separate kit. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 05:38:11 -0700 From: "george.pagliarulo@hp.com" Subject: Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt Message-ID: <1181306291.602139.49570@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Hi, I'm responsible for the patch process. I thought it was best to answer all this in the form of an FAQ. *Can patch lists in the UPDATE kits and master lists say which kits were not in the previous UPDATE kit? Absolutely, good idea. What I will do on future UPDATE kits is to add an asterisk to the patch kit name if that patch was not in the previous UPDATE kit. *Why are there still UPDATE kits for V7.3-2. At the time the VMS732_UPDATE-V1100 kit came out, the official plans were to make that the last UPDATE kit for V7.3-2. As it turned out, it was later decided that was not the best decision for our customers and another one was planned. That's about the state of V7.3-2 UPDATE kits now - when the time comes to start producing the next round of UPDATE kits we'll decide if we should do another one for V7.3-2. Personally, at some point UPDATE kits for V7.3-2 will stop but I don't see it happening for the next year (my opinion, not official policy). *Why are UPDATE kits required kits? A little history here. We often send out patch kits that have dependencies on other patch kits. Before UPDATE kits , these dependencies, over time, would get unmanageable - Kit A requires Kit B, Kit B does not require kit A but Kit A does require Kit C which now, since Kit B requires Kit A, it also now requires Kit C but.....you get the idea. UPDATE kits were started as a way to set a new patch baseline and eliminate all those dependencies. To accomplish this, once an UPDATE kit ships it beccomes a required kit for any patch kit that is produced after the release of the UPDATE kit. There is one caveat - when we started regularly scheduled releases of UPDATE kits we changed the requirement policy. Now, patch kits that require a reboot will require the latest UPDATE kit. Patch kits that do not require a reboot will require the UPDATE kit released before the latest kit. This is to try and help customers avoid an unnecessary reboot if they haven't yet installed the latest kit. *Why can't UPDATE kits only install what has not yet been installed with individual patch kits? The UPDATE kits set a baseline patch level. Without installing everything in the UPDATE kit we really have no assurance that the baseline has been set. With that said, two things were mentioned - marking the database that an image has already been installed. As Norm has mentioned, forget it, it's too difficult from an engineering standpoint. You are talking a major rewrite of the PCSI facility. It's not that it is difficult, there is not enough payback for such an investment of resources. The other option is to do something within the patch itself. I actually built a test UPDATE kit that checked to see what had already been installed and did not reinstall those images. I installed it on a system with no previous patches and on a system with all the previous patches installed. I purposely used a version (I think it was V7.3-2) that had a lot of patches against it; my expectation being that there would be a significant reduction in installation time. There was almost none and for that reason and becuse of the baseline thing, I abandoned this idea. *What patches are included in UPDATE kits? UPDATE kits do not ship anything new. They only ship patch kits that have been released and in the field for some time. The length of time is dependent on the complexity of the patch kit. If an UPDATE kit has a functional problem with an included image that requires us to pull the kit, what we will do is pull the kit and remove the offending patch kit and re-issue the UPDATE kit ; not add a new fix to the UPDATE kit and re-issue it. * How does PCSI treat images? If a patch kit is contains an image that is the same version, or later, as the image in an already installed patch kit, the image will be installed. If the image in the new kit is older, the image in the new kit will not be installed. If PCSI has no way of knowing, e.g. the image on the system is an engineering test image, and does not have the needed data in the image header, the image in the patch kit will be installed, wiping out the older, questionable image. There is a warning in the patch docmentation about this. George Pagliarulo ECO Release Process OpenVMS Sustaining Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company e-mail: george.pagliarulo@hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:33:25 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt Message-ID: "george.pagliarulo@hp.com" wrote on 06/08/2007 08:38:11 AM: > Hi, > > I'm responsible for the patch process. I thought it was best to > answer all this in the form of an FAQ. > Thanks, George. Will this find it's way into the OpenVMS FAQ? > *Can patch lists in the UPDATE kits and master lists say which kits > were not in the previous UPDATE kit? > Absolutely, good idea. What I will do on future UPDATE kits is to add > an asterisk to the patch kit name if that patch was not in the > previous UPDATE kit. > > *Why are there still UPDATE kits for V7.3-2. > > At the time the VMS732_UPDATE-V1100 kit came out, the official plans > were to make that the last UPDATE kit for V7.3-2. As it turned out, > it was later decided that was not the best decision for our customers > and another one was planned. That's about the state of V7.3-2 UPDATE > kits now - when the time comes to start producing the next round of > UPDATE > kits we'll decide if we should do another one for V7.3-2. Personally, > at some point UPDATE kits for V7.3-2 will stop but I don't see it > happening for the next year (my opinion, not official policy). So what changed was the commitment to scheduled UPDATE ECO's, not the commitment to do the reasonable thing. That's goodness IMHO. > > *Why are UPDATE kits required kits? > > A little history here. We often send out patch kits that have > dependencies on other patch kits. Before UPDATE kits , these > dependencies, over time, would get unmanageable - Kit A requires Kit > B, Kit B does not require kit A but Kit A does require Kit C which > now, since Kit B requires Kit A, it also now requires Kit C > but.....you get the idea. Ah, yes, I remember well those games. I had to create a hierarchy of ECO directories and apply the ECO's in each in turn, sometimes rebooting in between applications. Not pretty. > UPDATE kits were started as a way to set a > new patch baseline and eliminate all those dependencies. This is not well-understood. I'm glad to see it spelled out. > Toaccomplish this, once an UPDATE kit ships it beccomes a required kit > for any patch kit that is produced after the release of the UPDATE > kit. There is one caveat - when we started regularly scheduled > releases of UPDATE kits we changed the requirement policy. Now, patch > kits that require a reboot will require the latest UPDATE kit. Patch > kits that do not require a reboot will require the UPDATE kit released > before the latest kit. This is to try and help customers avoid an > unnecessary reboot if they haven't yet installed the latest kit. > > *Why can't UPDATE kits only install what has not yet been installed > with individual patch kits? > > The UPDATE kits set a baseline patch level. Without installing > everything in the UPDATE kit we really have no assurance that the > baseline has been set. With that said, two things were mentioned - > marking the database that an image has already been installed. As Norm > has mentioned, forget it, it's too difficult "...it's too difficult..." > from an engineering > standpoint. You are talking a major rewrite of the PCSI facility. > It's not that it is difficult; "It's not that it is difficult..." Oh, well, difficult or not, counter to intuition it has slight payback, so what does that matter. > there is not enough payback for such an > investment of resources. The other option is to do something within > the patch itself. I actually built a test UPDATE kit that checked to > see what had already been installed and did not reinstall those > images. I installed it on a system with no previous patches and on a > system with all the previous patches installed. I purposely used a > version (I think it was V7.3-2) that had a lot of patches against it; > my expectation being that there would be a significant reduction in > installation time. There was almost none and for that reason and > becuse of the baseline thing, I abandoned this idea. > > *What patches are included in UPDATE kits? > > UPDATE kits do not ship anything new. They only ship patch kits that > have been released and in the field for some time. The length of time > is dependent on the complexity of the patch kit. If an UPDATE kit has > a functional problem with an included image that requires us to pull > the kit, what we will do is pull the kit and remove the offending > patch kit and re-issue the UPDATE kit ; not add a new fix to the > UPDATE kit and re-issue it. > > > * How does PCSI treat images? > > If a patch kit is contains an image that is the same version, or > later, as the image in an already installed patch kit, the image will > be installed. If the image in the new kit is older, the image in the > new kit will not be installed. If PCSI has no way of knowing, e.g. > the image on the system is an engineering test image, and does not > have the needed data in the image header, the image in the patch kit > will be installed, wiping out the older, questionable image. There is > a warning in the patch docmentation about this. > My difficulty was that if I had already installed _all_ the ECO's included in an UPDATE ECO and then I needed -- that's needed -- a subsequent level 1 ECO, the later one would perforce carry the (uninstalled because all it's included ECO's were on the system) UPDATE ECO as a prerequisite, so I'd have to install both the UPDATE ECO and the needed ECO, a process that does take longer than just applying the single ECO. So I was really looking for a way to have the UPDATE ECO be run and do a precheck; if all it's contents were already in the database, mark the UPDATE ECO as installed in the database and forgo any reboot. That should be quicker that reistalling, allow later ECO's one or more at a time, and maintain the baseline. That said, I agree that it's not much harder to just bite the bullet and schedule the UPDATE ECO appropriately. If you have to reboot anyway, and you usually do if the ECO is "important," the extra time is not worth the explaination of the workaround. > George Pagliarulo > ECO Release Process > OpenVMS Sustaining Engineering > Hewlett-Packard Company > e-mail: george.pagliarulo@hp.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:34:37 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Bandwidth Test Message-ID: There are numerous sites that allow one to measure up and down link speeds using a browser, of course. Any tools available to do the same from DCL? Or perhaps an executable? Tom -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:08:11 GMT From: "Jerry Alan Braga" Subject: cifs and external auth Message-ID: Will the production release of cifs support extauth like pathworks does ? The reason I ask is that I know pathworks is now a eof product and would like to move to something more lightweight but I need the extauth against our windows AD domain. I have installed the latest kit on a test box and I have been able to have it connect to my windows 2003 AD domain but I do not see anything about the extauth in it. Does the new acme ldap module with vms 8.3 do the same or do I need to look into something like the process software version. I read up on the new acme ldap that comes with 8.3 as a patch kit but it talks about a memory leak and I am not ok with that in a production env. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:47:47 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: cifs and external auth Message-ID: <00A68D53.AE13E39F@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Jerry Alan Braga" writes: > > >Will the production release of cifs support extauth like pathworks does ? >The reason I ask is that I know pathworks is now a eof product and would >like to move to something more lightweight but I need the extauth against >our windows AD domain. I have installed the latest kit on a test box and I >have been able to have it connect to my windows 2003 AD domain but I do not >see anything about the extauth in it. > >Does the new acme ldap module with vms 8.3 do the same or do I need to look >into something like the process software version. I read up on the new acme >ldap that comes with 8.3 as a patch kit but it talks about a memory leak and >I am not ok with that in a production env. I don't know the answer to your question but where is the download for CIFS (SAMBA) in the HP site. There is plenty of mention but I've been searching around the VMS page since I awoke this morning looking for the download. I really really really do not like HP pages. Anybody who knows where/how to find it, please provide the URL or a hint to locating it. Thanks. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:12:24 -0700 From: IanMiller Subject: Re: cifs and external auth Message-ID: <1181322744.283272.51270@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> you can not dowload the HP CIFS for VMS kit at present. They have taken away the evaluation kits and the field test kit is not yet available. As soon as I know its available there will be an announcement on www.openvms.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:18:49 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: cifs and external auth Message-ID: In article <00A68D53.AE13E39F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , "Jerry Alan Braga" > writes: > > > > > >Will the production release of cifs support extauth like pathworks does ? > >The reason I ask is that I know pathworks is now a eof product and would > >like to move to something more lightweight but I need the extauth against > >our windows AD domain. I have installed the latest kit on a test box and I > >have been able to have it connect to my windows 2003 AD domain but I do not > >see anything about the extauth in it. > > > >Does the new acme ldap module with vms 8.3 do the same or do I need to look > >into something like the process software version. I read up on the new acme > >ldap that comes with 8.3 as a patch kit but it talks about a memory leak and > >I am not ok with that in a production env. > > I don't know the answer to your question but where is the download for CIFS > (SAMBA) in the HP site. There is plenty of mention but I've been searching > around the VMS page since I awoke this morning looking for the download. I > really really really do not like HP pages. > > Anybody who knows where/how to find it, please provide the URL or a hint to > locating it. > I bookmarked the following link when I downloaded it last October. It still works. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/cifs_download.html But the file which downloads is the same as I have already: The Alpha version is: hp-axpvms-samba-e0300-10e003-1.pcsi$compressed_sfx_axpexe 10.2 MB, dated 19-OCT-2006 -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:26:37 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: cifs and external auth Message-ID: In article <1181322744.283272.51270@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, IanMiller wrote: > you can not dowload the HP CIFS for VMS kit at present. They have > taken away the evaluation kits and the field test kit is not yet > available. > As soon as I know its available there will be an announcement on > www.openvms.org In that case, please ignore the link I just posted. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 13:29:53 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: cifs and external auth Message-ID: IanMiller wrote on 06/08/2007 01:12:24 PM: > you can not dowload the HP CIFS for VMS kit at present. They have > taken away the evaluation kits and the field test kit is not yet > available. And why isn't a notice to that effect at the link where the download once was, so busy folk will leave the website with hair intact and a much reduced need for anger management classes vis a vis HP? [Never mind.] > As soon as I know its available there will be an announcement on > www.openvms.org > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:42:00 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: Global warming NOT causing more hurricanes UK scientists say Message-ID: <1181310120.428460.311710@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On 7 Jun, 18:06, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Jun 7, 11:28 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > > > In article <1181221267.476748.239...@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > > > why will not Andrew listen to his own English scientists? :) > > > Why will you not stick to on-topic posts ? > > I just want to help Andrew not look like a fool to his > own countrymen ... :) Bob, repeat after me Sweden is not part of the UK, Puerto Rico is not part of the UK, the US is not part of the UK. I don't know what is more frightening your views on the accuracy of the old testament or your understanding of Geography. Regards Andrew Harrison ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:45:35 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Global warming NOT causing more hurricanes UK scientists say Message-ID: Andrew schrieb: > > Bob, repeat after me Sweden is not part of the UK, Puerto Rico is not > part of the UK, the US is not part of the UK. > > I don't know what is more frightening your views on the accuracy of > the old testament or your understanding of Geography. > well, what do you expect from a person who would believe that the Earth is flat if the bible says so. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:24:36 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Global warming NOT causing more hurricanes UK scientists say Message-ID: <466966A4.90705@comcast.net> Michael Kraemer wrote: > Andrew schrieb: > >> >> Bob, repeat after me Sweden is not part of the UK, Puerto Rico is not >> part of the UK, the US is not part of the UK. >> >> I don't know what is more frightening your views on the accuracy of >> the old testament or your understanding of Geography. >> > > well, what do you expect from a person who would > believe that the Earth is flat if the bible says so. > Well, a flat earth; e.g. Terry Pratchett's Diskworld, is considerably more fun than the oblate spheroid we are stuck with! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:54:51 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Global warming NOT causing more hurricanes UK scientists say Message-ID: In article <1181310120.428460.311710@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Andrew wrote: > On 7 Jun, 18:06, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 7, 11:28 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > > > > > In article <1181221267.476748.239...@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > > ultra...@gmail.com writes: > > > > > > why will not Andrew listen to his own English scientists? :) > > > > > Why will you not stick to on-topic posts ? > > > > I just want to help Andrew not look like a fool to his > > own countrymen ... :) > > Bob, repeat after me Sweden is not part of the UK, Puerto Rico is not > part of the UK, the US is not part of the UK. Steady on now. You don't want to cause a buffer overflow. > I don't know what is more frightening your views on the accuracy of > the old testament or your understanding of Geography. > -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:25:01 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Message-ID: <3vmdndDa6pDis_TbnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com> John Santos wrote: > Doug Phillips wrote: >> On Jun 7, 8:43 am, Paul Anderson wrote: >> >>> In article , >>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Any dedicated newsreader worth it's salt has an "Ignore thread" >>>> feature. >>> >>> I heard that doing that contributes to global warming. >>> >> >> >> Only if we don't observe the thread. Weisenheimer's theory of thread >> entanglement says that an off-topic thread in one newsgroup will spawn >> an OT discussion in another group and lead to global warming if the OT >> thread is not observed. Thread noodling by the Flying Spaghetti >> Monster can cause the entanglement to appear random. >> >> So says the great Weisenheimer. >> >> ;-) >> > Is this an example of quantum thread entanglement? AEF, care to > comment? I'm not sure that AEF can comment about a tangle unless he is actually part of it. Then again, I'm not sure that he can comment if he *is* a part of it, either. Tangles, like the GPL, sacrifice *individual* freedom on the altar of the aggregate rights of the tangle. Unlike the GPL, this cannot be considered good, or bad: it's just the way things are. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:52:40 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Message-ID: In article , John Santos wrote: > Doug Phillips wrote: > > On Jun 7, 8:43 am, Paul Anderson wrote: > > > >>In article , > >> Ron Johnson wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Any dedicated newsreader worth it's salt has an "Ignore thread" > >>>feature. > >> > >>I heard that doing that contributes to global warming. > >> > > > > > > Only if we don't observe the thread. Weisenheimer's theory of thread > > entanglement says that an off-topic thread in one newsgroup will spawn > > an OT discussion in another group and lead to global warming if the OT > > thread is not observed. Thread noodling by the Flying Spaghetti > > Monster can cause the entanglement to appear random. > > > > So says the great Weisenheimer. > > > > ;-) > > > Is this an example of quantum thread entanglement? AEF, care to > comment? Methinks there may be some wizardry in here. From the German: die Weisen pl. Magi das Heim home, asylum Weisenheim - home of the three wise men, or even sorcerers? -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:28:35 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Message-ID: P. Sture wrote: > In article , John Santos > wrote: > > >>Doug Phillips wrote: >> >>>On Jun 7, 8:43 am, Paul Anderson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>In article , >>>>Ron Johnson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Any dedicated newsreader worth it's salt has an "Ignore thread" >>>>>feature. >>>> >>>>I heard that doing that contributes to global warming. >>>> >>> >>> >>>Only if we don't observe the thread. Weisenheimer's theory of thread >>>entanglement says that an off-topic thread in one newsgroup will spawn >>>an OT discussion in another group and lead to global warming if the OT >>>thread is not observed. Thread noodling by the Flying Spaghetti >>>Monster can cause the entanglement to appear random. >>> >>>So says the great Weisenheimer. >>> >>>;-) >>> >> >>Is this an example of quantum thread entanglement? AEF, care to >>comment? > > > Methinks there may be some wizardry in here. > > From the German: > > die Weisen pl. Magi > das Heim home, asylum > > Weisenheim - home of the three wise men, or even sorcerers? In old (1930's or even older, I know the 3 Stooges used the term), a Weisenheimer is a wise guy or a smart aleck, a show-off who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. (Very annoying to those of us who actually are smarter than everyone else :-) Then again, 3 wise men, 3 stooges? Chance, or quantum string entanglement? And what has this to do with His Noodly Appendages? -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:30:18 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Message-ID: John Santos wrote: > P. Sture wrote: > >> In article , John Santos >> wrote: >> >> >>> Doug Phillips wrote: >>> >>>> On Jun 7, 8:43 am, Paul Anderson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> In article , >>>>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Any dedicated newsreader worth it's salt has an "Ignore thread" >>>>>> feature. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I heard that doing that contributes to global warming. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Only if we don't observe the thread. Weisenheimer's theory of thread >>>> entanglement says that an off-topic thread in one newsgroup will spawn >>>> an OT discussion in another group and lead to global warming if the OT >>>> thread is not observed. Thread noodling by the Flying Spaghetti >>>> Monster can cause the entanglement to appear random. >>>> >>>> So says the great Weisenheimer. >>>> >>>> ;-) >>>> >>> >>> Is this an example of quantum thread entanglement? AEF, care to >>> comment? >> >> >> >> Methinks there may be some wizardry in here. >> >> From the German: >> >> die Weisen pl. Magi >> das Heim home, asylum >> >> Weisenheim - home of the three wise men, or even sorcerers? > > > In old (1930's or even older, I know the 3 Stooges used the term), Argh! Left out the words "American slang" here... > a Weisenheimer is a wise guy or a smart aleck, a show-off who > thinks he's smarter than everyone else. (Very annoying to those > of us who actually are smarter than everyone else :-) > > Then again, 3 wise men, 3 stooges? Chance, or quantum string > entanglement? And what has this to do with His Noodly Appendages? > -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:57:01 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Message-ID: In article , John Santos wrote: > John Santos wrote: > > P. Sture wrote: > > > >> In article , John Santos > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Doug Phillips wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Jun 7, 8:43 am, Paul Anderson wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> In article , > >>>>> Ron Johnson wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Any dedicated newsreader worth it's salt has an "Ignore thread" > >>>>>> feature. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I heard that doing that contributes to global warming. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Only if we don't observe the thread. Weisenheimer's theory of thread > >>>> entanglement says that an off-topic thread in one newsgroup will spawn > >>>> an OT discussion in another group and lead to global warming if the OT > >>>> thread is not observed. Thread noodling by the Flying Spaghetti > >>>> Monster can cause the entanglement to appear random. > >>>> > >>>> So says the great Weisenheimer. > >>>> > >>>> ;-) > >>>> > >>> > >>> Is this an example of quantum thread entanglement? AEF, care to > >>> comment? > >> > >> > >> > >> Methinks there may be some wizardry in here. > >> > >> From the German: > >> > >> die Weisen pl. Magi > >> das Heim home, asylum > >> > >> Weisenheim - home of the three wise men, or even sorcerers? > > > > > > In old (1930's or even older, I know the 3 Stooges used the term), > > Argh! Left out the words "American slang" here... > > > a Weisenheimer is a wise guy or a smart aleck, a show-off who > > thinks he's smarter than everyone else. (Very annoying to those > > of us who actually are smarter than everyone else :-) > > > > Then again, 3 wise men, 3 stooges? I get this from a Dictionary app I have lurking: "a person who behaves in an irritatingly smug or arrogant fashion, typically by making clever remarks and displaying their knowledge. ORIGIN early 20th cent.: from wise + the suffix -(n)heimer found in surnames such as Oppenheimer." > > Chance, or quantum string > > entanglement? And what has this to do with His Noodly Appendages? > > Hmm, sorting out a box of cables last night, I separated a load of them, coiled each one up, and before I applied the cable ties, they'd already got tangled. Entropy and spaghetti combined! Next time I'll try a fork - maybe I need Unix for that... -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 2007 17:34:14 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Message-ID: <5cti8mF32m30bU1@mid.individual.net> In article , John Santos writes: > P. Sture wrote: >> In article , John Santos >> wrote: >> >> >>>Doug Phillips wrote: >>> >>>>On Jun 7, 8:43 am, Paul Anderson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article , >>>>>Ron Johnson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Any dedicated newsreader worth it's salt has an "Ignore thread" >>>>>>feature. >>>>> >>>>>I heard that doing that contributes to global warming. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Only if we don't observe the thread. Weisenheimer's theory of thread >>>>entanglement says that an off-topic thread in one newsgroup will spawn >>>>an OT discussion in another group and lead to global warming if the OT >>>>thread is not observed. Thread noodling by the Flying Spaghetti >>>>Monster can cause the entanglement to appear random. >>>> >>>>So says the great Weisenheimer. >>>> >>>>;-) >>>> >>> >>>Is this an example of quantum thread entanglement? AEF, care to >>>comment? >> >> >> Methinks there may be some wizardry in here. >> >> From the German: >> >> die Weisen pl. Magi >> das Heim home, asylum >> >> Weisenheim - home of the three wise men, or even sorcerers? > > In old (1930's or even older, I know the 3 Stooges used the term), > a Weisenheimer is a wise guy or a smart aleck, a show-off who > thinks he's smarter than everyone else. (Very annoying to those > of us who actually are smarter than everyone else :-) > > Then again, 3 wise men, 3 stooges? Chance, or quantum string > entanglement? And what has this to do with His Noodly Appendages? > Tha reminds me of why the city of Scranton stopped doing live Nativity displays. Couldn't find three wise men or a virgin! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:21:55 -0400 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> >> "immediately shift to EV8"? How do you "immediately" shift to >> something that doesn't exist? > > > OK, for the sake of discussion, lets assume both HP and Intel admitted > today that IA64 was a mistake. Both decide to focus on Alpha and HP > gives Intel the rights to build and improve/designs new alphas. > > How long would it take to take current EV7 and produce a new EV7 made > with smaller process and higher speed ? (same logic inside) and perhaps > larger cache ? > > With Intel's resources, would it be months, a year ? 2 years ? > Couldn't they give EV7 a speed boost each year until Intel then comes up > with EV9 (lets skip EV8 and go to EV9 with whatever techniques have been > learned/developped since 2001). > > (I realise that from a political point of view, this is unfortunatly ot > likely to happen, but from a technical point of view, couldn't they ramp > up EV7 production and EV7 speed bumps rather quickly ? Intel went off on a tangent with the itanic, and AMD may have hit Intel harder than they've ever been hit in their corporate life. Now Intel is back in the x86 game, "THE GAME", and they got there by by concentrating on X86. What makes you think they would ever go off on another tangent? The people who could do it are working on x86, and will continue to work on x86. The immediate future appears to be multi-cores, on chip memory controllers and SMP glue and such. The architecture really doesn't matter to them, it's the volume sales that matter. The Edsel, Betamax, VAX, Alpha, and such are history, and that's all they will ever be. -- David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc. 170 Grimplin Road Vanderbilt, PA 15486 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:38:32 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Message-ID: Joseph Huber wrote on 06/08/2007 05:45:46 AM: > Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > > As most of you know, I have a Jensen system now happily running > > 7.3-1. And you probably remember that I have dead clock and > > set date with NTP. > > I would request booting with requesting the time at the console, so at > least a roughly correct date/time is there from beginning. > Set the TIMEPROMPTWAIT system parameter to the appropriate value > 0. > (Use HELp SYS_PARAM TIMEPROMPTWAIT in SYSGEN). > > > Sometimes it happens that NTP doesn't catch on (either by > > servers being down, or my Jensen loosing network connection. > > Of course that causes machine to believe it's booting a few > > thousand days ahead of its last shutdown and all the > > passwords expire. > > > > So: > > > > a) how to set password expiration to no time? > > Set /PWDLIFETIME to NONE (or is it /NOPWDLIFETIME ?) in authorize for > all users You want to be unaffected. > > > b) how to "restore" passwords that have already had to be > > changed regardless of them being in password history? > > Only by setting the password again. ISTR a hack to move passwords from one SYSUAF.DAT to another when consolidating to common SYSUAF.DAT files that involved grabbing both the hashed-password and the stored-seed-value from the old SYSUAF.DAT and replacing these values in the new SYSUAF.DAT. This is obviously dangerous stuff, but if you can locate it, the passwords never appear in cleartext, so with care this might help you. You could keep a backup of the file as a source for your replacements. I don't remember if once a password has expired you can reset the SYSUAF record to not-expired. I do know that when you set the password with AUTHORIZE> MODIFY username /NOPWDE/PASS=password the dictionary is not used. You can overwrite the existing password for another interval (NOPWDE cancels pre-expiration only). > As a privileged user, You can set the password through AUTHORIZE MODIFY > user /PASSWORD=newpassword without checking the password history. > Since the password is encrypted/hashed, there is no way to find the > clear text password (except by brute force using a password cracker > program). > > If the system is Your private/hobby one, You could eventually play with > the definition of logical VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY to point to a nonexistant > file to defeat the check, or delete the default > VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY.DATA file after a boot with invalid system time. > > -- > > Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:45:46 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Message-ID: Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > As most of you know, I have a Jensen system now happily running > 7.3-1. And you probably remember that I have dead clock and > set date with NTP. I would request booting with requesting the time at the console, so at least a roughly correct date/time is there from beginning. Set the TIMEPROMPTWAIT system parameter to the appropriate value > 0. (Use HELp SYS_PARAM TIMEPROMPTWAIT in SYSGEN). > Sometimes it happens that NTP doesn't catch on (either by > servers being down, or my Jensen loosing network connection. > Of course that causes machine to believe it's booting a few > thousand days ahead of its last shutdown and all the > passwords expire. > > So: > > a) how to set password expiration to no time? Set /PWDLIFETIME to NONE (or is it /NOPWDLIFETIME ?) in authorize for all users You want to be unaffected. > b) how to "restore" passwords that have already had to be > changed regardless of them being in password history? Only by setting the password again. As a privileged user, You can set the password through AUTHORIZE MODIFY user /PASSWORD=newpassword without checking the password history. Since the password is encrypted/hashed, there is no way to find the clear text password (except by brute force using a password cracker program). If the system is Your private/hobby one, You could eventually play with the definition of logical VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY to point to a nonexistant file to defeat the check, or delete the default VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY.DATA file after a boot with invalid system time. -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:01:36 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Message-ID: In article , Joseph Huber wrote: > Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > > As most of you know, I have a Jensen system now happily running > > 7.3-1. And you probably remember that I have dead clock and > > set date with NTP. > > I would request booting with requesting the time at the console, so at > least a roughly correct date/time is there from beginning. > Set the TIMEPROMPTWAIT system parameter to the appropriate value > 0. > (Use HELp SYS_PARAM TIMEPROMPTWAIT in SYSGEN). > > > Sometimes it happens that NTP doesn't catch on (either by > > servers being down, or my Jensen loosing network connection. > > Of course that causes machine to believe it's booting a few > > thousand days ahead of its last shutdown and all the > > passwords expire. > > > > So: > > > > a) how to set password expiration to no time? > > Set /PWDLIFETIME to NONE (or is it /NOPWDLIFETIME ?) in authorize for > all users You want to be unaffected. > Either: UAF> mod username /NOPWDLIFETIME or UAF> mod username /PWDLIFETIME=NONE > > b) how to "restore" passwords that have already had to be > > changed regardless of them being in password history? > > Only by setting the password again. > As a privileged user, You can set the password through AUTHORIZE MODIFY > user /PASSWORD=newpassword without checking the password history. > Since the password is encrypted/hashed, there is no way to find the > clear text password (except by brute force using a password cracker > program). > When resetting a password via /PASSWORD=newpassword, the expiry flag will automatically be set, so that the user will be prompted for a new password on the next login. To prevent this, use /PASSWORD=newpassword /NOPWDEXPIRED -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:38:32 -0000 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Message-ID: <1181302712.728254.65020@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 8, 5:45 am, Joseph Huber wrote: > Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > > b) how to "restore" passwords that have already had to be > > changed regardless of them being in password history? >or delete the default > VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY.DATA file after a boot with invalid system time. That's a bit crude. The password history is an indexed file. You can readily manipulate individual records. $name = f$parse ("VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY","SYS$SYSTEM:.DATA") $open/read/write/share=write file 'name $read/delete/key="USERNAME" file record $show symbol record ! verify the right one is deleted. $!<-- if you change your mind --> $ write/symbol file record $close file Even that could be considered crude... You could $read it, trim of last entry, (adjust count?), $write/update/ symbol file record Cheers, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 2007 18:17:33 +0200 From: huber@NIRWANA-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) Subject: Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Message-ID: In article <1181302712.728254.65020@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > On Jun 8, 5:45 am, Joseph Huber wrote: >> Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: >> > b) how to "restore" passwords that have already had to be >> > changed regardless of them being in password history? > >>or delete the default >> VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY.DATA file after a boot with invalid system time. > > That's a bit crude. > The password history is an indexed file. > You can readily manipulate individual records. > > $name = f$parse ("VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY","SYS$SYSTEM:.DATA") > $open/read/write/share=write file 'name > $read/delete/key="USERNAME" file record > $show symbol record ! verify the right one is deleted. > $!<-- if you change your mind --> $ write/symbol file record > $close file > > Even that could be considered crude... > You could $read it, trim of last entry, (adjust count?), $write/update/ > symbol file record > Ha, yes, it is crude :-), thefore I conditionalized it on "If the system is Your private/hobby one,...": i.e. he is the only one affected. In a real multiuser environment, the whole case would be a big mess anyway (not only for password history). And my first suggestion to always enter the time at boot via TIMEPROMPTWAIT setting is certainly the preferred one. -- Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany: http://www.huber-joseph.de/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:09:11 -0700 From: Rambo Subject: Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time Message-ID: <1181322551.517739.27250@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Thanks guys, I used all advices and: a) for this time, removed SYS$SYSTEM:VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY.DATA b) used MODIFY SYSTEM /NOPWDEXPIRE /PWDLIFETIME=NONE c) set up old password. Seems to be working for now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:09:59 +0200 From: Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski Subject: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time timetime Message-ID: <20070608080959.f2b34245.m_roguski@yahoo.com> As most of you know, I have a Jensen system now happily running 7.3-1. And you probably remember that I have dead clock and set date with NTP. Sometimes it happens that NTP doesn't catch on (either by servers being down, or my Jensen loosing network connection. Of course that causes machine to believe it's booting a few thousand days ahead of its last shutdown and all the passwords expire. So: a) how to set password expiration to no time? b) how to "restore" passwords that have already had to be changed regardless of them being in password history? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:34:06 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Ignoring password history when previous expires/setting expiration time time Message-ID: <46693EAE.9090803@comcast.net> Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > As most of you know, I have a Jensen system now happily running > 7.3-1. And you probably remember that I have dead clock and > set date with NTP. > > Sometimes it happens that NTP doesn't catch on (either by > servers being down, or my Jensen loosing network connection. > Of course that causes machine to believe it's booting a few > thousand days ahead of its last shutdown and all the > passwords expire. > > So: > > a) how to set password expiration to no time? /NOPWDEXPIRE? > b) how to "restore" passwords that have already had to be > changed regardless of them being in password history? ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 2007 13:53:27 GMT From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk Subject: MI5 Persecution: Goldfish and Piranha 29/9/95 (5113) Message-ID: I just thought I'd let you know what I've been reading into the "Crusader" spam. I don't want to post this to usenet because somebody might try to tie that in to my posts in some way (someone already has, in uk.misc). First of all, I'd like to ask you to believe that my phone line in my apartment is bugged, and has been for many months. I have moved a couple of times this year, but "they" have faithfully been on my trail. Anyway, let's suppose my phone line is bugged. Now, when I talk to my internet service provider, it's over a SLIP (now PPP) connection. So if you wanted to bug what was said, either you'd listen in over the line and have to decode the transmission, or you could go to the service provider (more difficult) and ask them to decode a particular user's connection. OK, so now they're listening to everything I do over my SLIP/PPP connection. A couple of months ago I was messing around with faking articles through nntp servers and through anonymous remailers. I chose a nice inconspicuous newsgroup for my little tests, something no-one would ever notice. Guess which newsgroup I chose??? Yes, _FISH_!!! or rec.aquaria to be precise And guess what articles I tried to post? Goldfish, Koi carp and, you'll never guess... PIRANHA!!! The goldfish article and the Koi went through, but the piranha didn';t appear. by now you probably think this is too silly for words. But if you look in the papers a few eeks ago you will find John Major, Tonny Blair and Paddy Ashdown sharing a "private joke" about Major's sunburnt goldfish. We haven't had anything about Koi yet (they must be too dull ). Now, sent by someone who clearly knew what they were doing (they chose an Italian backbone site for their launch point) we have many thousands of messages to people all over the globe. All about piranha, and with the punchline "that gives you something to think about, doesn't it?" The way it works is that they're trying to kill two birds with one stone again. I don't knoiw why they should be against these national alliance people, but my interpretation is that they simultaneously try to discredit them, and stem the flow of Corley articles. ================================================================= In article , Mike Corley wrote: > >John J Smith (J.J.Smith@ftel.co.uk) wrote: > >: b) we do know who you are. Or are you someone else we don't know about? >: You are currently known as "That bloody persistant net nutter, who's >: expanding from uk.misc to the rest of the world". > >I think the point I was trying to make is that I could tell you things >from my personal life, at home and at work, which would add credibility >to my story. But if I named people, then (a) they would object violently >to being included in this shenanigans, and (b) I would be revealing my >identity which would be bad for my personal life and my work life. Of >course some people in my personal life, and at work, do know who "mike >corley" is. But at least we're observing a studied silence for now. :People can always be called "MR X", to save them being named. : :I'm completely perplexed as to what you mean by b). Revealing identity? :To who? And why would this be bad for any part of your life when you :already have a less than respectful reputation here? I'll just enumerate one or two things that I can still remember. Sometime around August/Sept 1992 I was living in a house in Oxford, and coming out of the house was physically attacked by someone - not punched, just grabbed by the coat, with some verbals thrown in for good measure. That was something the people at work shouldn't have known about... but soon after a couple of people were talking right in front of me about, "yeah, I heard he was attacked". Again, one I went for a walk in some woods outside Oxford. The next day, at work, someone said "you know he went to the forest yesterday". I don't want to put details on usenet of what happened because to do so would be to risk it happening again. If you put ideas in peoples' heads then you can find them reflecting back at you, and I don't want that. Also I can't remember that much from three years ago. From november 1992 I started taking "major tranquilizers" and just blotted the whole thing from my mind. >This is a feature time and time again, that the security services >(presumed) get at you by manipulating other people around you to get at >you. If you have their contacts, manpower, resources and technology then >you can do that sort of thing. :But why? Are you a threat? They pretend they "have" to get at me. After the first few weeks they had to find a reason to spy and abuse. You can't abuse someone unless they're in the wrong in some way. What I did "wrong" was to be ill. So it became "nutter" and "monster" and "he's going to attack us" coupled with "ha ha ha, he can't do anything to defend himself, it was so funny". That obvious contradiction within their propaganda is something they blithely ignore. :So, the Security Services never *actually* appear, and you assume that :they get someone else to do your dirty work. This is a bit of a big :logical step, here: That person doesn't like me, or is causing me trouble, :it's not because they've got problems themselves, it must be the "Security :Services". Yes. Because people are infallible. Or is there more? A single source is indicated because of the range of harassment. BBC + Capital + manipulated_public_at_large + set_up_situations, what does that add up to? Add in the technology to carry out the covert spying and the manpower and knowhow to follow you around for five years without being spotted. It smells very much of the security services, because there is no other organization (to my knowledge) which does the things I've seen these people do. Remember, they have deliberately chosen the softest of soft targets to victimize. They purposely chose a mentally ill person who they thought would be likely to kill himself anyway, so that they could get away with murder. And in all likelihood it will have started as a personal vendetta by someone. Who could that be? I don't know, but I can give you some clues. The first possibility (deep breath) is that someone from my college set me up. Six years ago I graduated from university in the UK, during the last year there I was steadily getting more and more ill. I know that I was talking in my sleep; although I don't know what I was saying, it got me a reputation, and if someone from my college talked afterwards to the "wrong" people then that could be the reason for all that has followed. I think that's the strongest contender for source. Directly beneath my room lived another bloke who frequently had his friends round late at night, after the time that I went to sleep. So they could have heard what I was saying in my sleep, and that could have got me the reputation for "talking to myself". What I don't know is why that should have rebounded a year after I left. You'd think it would have happened sooner; it's a bit odd to wait for a year and then start abuse. That leads me to question what in particular happened around May/June 1990 for them to start then. >What I don't know is how it looks from the other side, from the side of >the people who are being manipulated to get at me. On a couple of >occasions I have challenged people to tell the truth of the matter, but >they have alwats ducked the challenge. :Have you ever considered the possibility, that you have made a mistake, and :the people don't know what you are talking about? Yes. I am currently considering the possibility that some people around me know only what is being posted on Usenet, and have not been "contacted" by "them". But I _know_ that others have been contacted. :What words? Are they in common use? Could they be a catchphrase of a :popular comedian?: "Nice to see you, to see you nice"? In England the all-time No. 1 is "nutter". Easter this year, returning home from Clapham police station to report five years of harassment ("we're not saying it's happening and we're not saying it isn't happening"), another "not happening" incident of harassment when a cowardly little slut did her country proud by yelling "nutter, nutter, nutter" in the face of the hated enemy. What can you do about that? You can't yell abuse back in their face, because they know they're supported by their peers, by the media, by the murderers in the security forces. You can't put them down when the fascist establishment is on their side. You can't hit them, because they would deny their abuse, they would deny knowing anything, and bring charges against the "nutter" who attacked them "at random". >You know, you're >passing saomeone, they're hardly going to construct an argument for your >benefit, so they work a word of abuse into the conversation which they >can giggle at. :Abuse such as what? We're all adults here, we can take it. Is this abuse :aimed at you? How can you tell it is? I think I've said already what the words are. Thing is, at any given time the language is consistent. In January everyone's calling you X, then a few weeks later people stop calling you X and start calling you Y. You can tell it's aimed at me, because when people repeatedly say the same words are you walk past, then laugh, you would have to be hard of understanding not to recognize it. >Or they repeat something that's been said somewhere else... the PE thing >being a case in point. PE says it, then other people pick up the refrain. :Remind me who PE is again. PE = "Private Eye" >: >To give you an example, which I mentioned in another posting. In around >: >October 1992, Private Eye ran a cover with the heading "Major's support >: >lowest ever", with John calling to Norma on the cover "come back, Norma". >: >Only one obvious interpretation to that, isn';;t there? I certainly >: >thought so when I saw that cover. Wrongo!! Down the pub with people from work >: >Simon says to phil, "don';t you think it's wrong then?" phil says, "well >: >private eye are usuallyright"..."hislop strikes again.. > >: Erm. Mike? Heeeelllllooo? What are you on about. What is the other >: interpretation then? Norma having an affair? Seems a bit wrong, with the >: heading "Majors support Lowest ever"... > >No, this one isn't obvious , it really does need to be explained. I >certainly didn't understand it when I first saw it. You see, the kernel >of vitriol is in the words "come back". At the time, the themes of >abuse were centred around interpretations of those two words (stretch your >mind a little bit, I don't have to spell it out for you, surely). :You did in your mail item. : :You seem to be scouting about something called a "Double Entendre". The :inference being "Come" = Ejaculation, "Back" = Anus (not the first part :of the body I would have went for, I would have foolishly gone for "Back", :silly old me). : :You see to have picked a sodomy double entendre out of a Private Eye :headline. They are everywhere. The English language has much double :meaning in it, and if you put your mind to it, you could pull a double :entendre out of a randomly chosen page of the bible. So what? >The point is that when Simon pointed it out to Phil, he did recognise >what it meant after a moment's thought... and so did I... and so did the >people who repeated it several times later... so however murky it may >seem to you, that is the meaning they intended it to have... I still don't really know if the meaning was intended when that headline was written, or if it was simply "found" after the fact. The reason I think it might be the former is that I got quite a lot of abuse along the lines of "sound-alike" or "double-entendre" at work, in particularly from Steve. So "double" inevitably came to mean split-personality, "two people in one"; "back" inevitably came to mean "backside", "come" inevitably meant you-know- what, "split" (well, we'd better split now) again you can guess, "bent" (of a similar bent), the list goes on forever. These aren't "nice" double- entendres intended for comedy, they're nasty words to humiliate and cause pain. If I could turn the clock back three years then I would sue my former employers for harassment and I would almost certainly win. I had to take pills after a year of Oxford, so they wouldn't be able to lie their way out of it. Actually, I could still take them to court - the main obstacle being that three years after the fact is a bit late and much of what happened, the details that would be necessary for a case to go to court, has just been obliterated by time. : Smid ============================================== From: flames@flames.cityscape.co.uk (Peter Kr|ger) Newsgroups: uk.misc,soc.culture.british,alt.conspiracy,uk.media,uk.legal Subject: Re: Mike Corley - a (helpful) suggestion Date: Mon Oct 2 05:43:42 1995 In article <812551172snz@objmedia.demon.co.uk>, Snail says: >Indeed, I feel that my Usenet access is censored simply because I don't want >to download groups he is partaking in, because of his behaviour. > >I wasn't that bothered, but I am starting to get seriously pissed off >with him. Which takes a lot. Hi Snail This person Corley seems quite interesting for three reasons. I put the following at the end of a post in another thread just to see if he was reading any other threads in uk.media. It seems he is probably not. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Heres an interesting little story from back in the early days of CCD technology. There was this miniature camera which was designed to fit behind the infrared receiver lens of the remote control system (just beside the IR sensor itself) the camera clocked out the data in 256 lines of 256 pixels from a Fairchild chip and fed it out, a line at a time, into the VBI within the TV set itself. The signal could be picked up remotely from a standard license detector van from where it was stripped out of the surrounding RF signal and relayed back to the TV station where it was displayed as a slowscan monochrome image in a corner of the news readers monitor. 5113 ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 2007 12:29:52 GMT From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk Subject: MI5 Persecution: Options 21/9/95 (571) Message-ID: From: john heelan Newsgroups: uk.misc,alt.current-events.net-abuse,alt.journalism Subject: Re: CENSORHSIP IS IMMORAL, UNJUST AND WRONG Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 19:17:30 GMT Organization: (Private) Lines: 65 Message-ID: <811711050snz@lorca.demon.co.uk> References: <43qpdh$iki@news3.digex.net> Reply-To: john@lorca.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: lorca.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 You have to admit that Mike is persistent and obviously feels deeply that he is being hounded by the "Security Services" and there is a Conspiracy out to get him personally. If that is true, then we should be concerned; if he is just paranoid, then we should empathise with his sickness. What we should not do is to invite censorship....that just could be implicitly joining in the putative Conspiracy. Let's look at Mike's potential options (and the alleged responses he has received): > 1. Complain to the Police: (their alleged response > "Don't be silly, Sir"; Mike's rationale "They are part > of the Conspiracy") > I don't think the police as an organisation are part of it. They're certainly not the source. The officer I spoke to at Easter clearly didn't know anything about it. And that was at my local police station in London - if anyone in the police knew you would think the people at your local cop shop would. A couple of years ago I had to go into the station after a motoring infraction, the guy I spoke to then said something about "brain like a computer sir" which my suspicions latched on to - (I'm alleged to be a programmer as some people reading this know) - but as per the usual "can';t prove nuthin" and you ask yourself if you're just being stupid suspecting on the basis of a straw > 2. Complain to a Member of Parliament (Mike's rationale: "Can't > because they are part of the Conspiracy") > I could do that actually. But he would probably tell me to go see the police, for which see above. > 3. Make it visible through the UK Press. (Mike's rationale: > "Can't because they are part of the Conspiracy") > They are actually. There's a difference though in the way journalists react to this stuff when they're "got to" by the security service. This is completely giving the game away, but the trouble originally started with my reading into stuff that was being written by Times columnists, in particular our antagonistic friend Mr Levin. But you see that some journalists are taking part in the conspiracy and others are only doing it because their puppet masters have been feeding them information which they can't allow themselves to ignore. The security services have their hooks into the UK media, this case shows that very explicitly. You also see how things get gradualkly wqorse with a particular journalist; a couple of weeks ago Peter Tory in the Express was writing about "nerds seeking their revenge on him through the Net", guess what that was about. > 4. Complain to the UK Security Services. (Mike's rationale: "Can't > because they ARE the Cnspiracy") > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? If the fascist Gestapo bastards plot to see you dead then who's going to deal with it? Not the security services, that's for sure. > 5. Make it visible through Internet: (Mike has done this > suvccessfully; but any gainsayers are "part of the Conspiracy". > I don;t think you';re part of the consipracy if you refuse to believe or email the postmaster. Those who do know are keeping their silence. > 6. Complain to the Canadian National and State Governments. (Has > Mike done this yet ?) > No. It's a UK problem so that's where it should be dealt with. The perpetrators are UK residents, are unidentified, and would be difficult to deal with through the Canadian courts. Ditto the police in Canada, ditto the press - it isn't their problem, it's caused by UK people against someone from the UK. Of course Canadian laws are being broken relating to harassment and "stalking" which do not exist in the UK, but the Canadian police do not have a very good record of enforcing those laws anyway. > 7. Complain to the Canadian Security Services (Has Mike done this > yet ?) > > 8. Complain to the Canadian Press. (Has Mike done this yet ?) > I think if they didn't knoiw, they'd just think you were having delusions; and if they did, then they would side with the people with the power, the smiling English people with their knives out. Remember, nobody uis going to side with the person who has less power in a copfrontation. The team over here in Canada have the resources of their organization behind them, other broadcasters etc in the UK would have influence with their counterparts in Canada; after all, this was once a British colony, there is still a feeling of "looking up to" the UK among many Canadians, so if a team of security services arrives from the UK with apparently limitless resources to pursue their target, people over here will forget anything they ever knew about basic human rights and go along with what they are told to do and how they are told to behave. > 9. Complain to non-UK TV Watchdogs (Does Canada have an "Oprah > Winfrey ? Has Mike done this yet ?) > > 10. Complain to the EC Court of Human Rights. (Has Mike done > this yet ?) > > ........or...are 6,7,8,9,10 also all part of > the Conspiracy ? > > > > -- > john heelan 571 ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 2007 12:56:56 GMT From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk Subject: MI5 Persecution: Question and Answer 27/9/95 (2085) Message-ID: In article bu765@torfree.net "Mike Corley" writes: >>> ##: There were also a few other things said at the trial >>> ##: relating to this which I won't repeat here; it was in the papers >>> ##: at the time anyway. This quote and others said by and about this >>> ##: witness were repeating things that had been said by and about >>> ##: me at around that time. When, where and by whom ? Let's have some details that can be checked. I'm not going to repeat them. They're hurtful to me because they contained abuse that was directed against me by someone else at the time and which got picked up and thrown again in the trial. It is a matter of record but I won't repeat it here. >>> PM: >Who's character is being assassinated? It isn't clear from the post. >>> PM: >Are we talking about Grenville Janner? I thought he was a spook >>> PM: >himself? He's certainly able to hold his own on the issue you cite. >>> ##: Mine, mainly. The reason for putting that episode at the top >>> ##: of the posting is that they tried to kill two birds with one stone >>> ##: at the Beck trial - they simultaneously put words into the mouth >>> ##: of their invented "witness" to smear Janner, and repeated exactly, >>> ##: word-for-word, stuff which had been said by and about me. Why would "they" wish to assassinate your character? Well, let's put it this way - just because this is the first time it's happened in this way, from these people, on this scale, doesn't mean that it hasn't happened before, on a lesser scale. At university there were people who quite overtly hated me and would have wished something nasty to happen to me. Because of where I went making the wrong sort of enemies is pretty deadly. "They" would wish to assassinate my character because it had all been done before, and because they knew I would not be able to react in any other way than I'd reacted previously. >>> ##: They invaded my home with their bugs, they repeated what I >>> ##: was saying in the privacy of my home, and they laughed that it >>> ##: was "so funny", that I was impotent and could not even communicate >>> ##: what was going on. Who did this? Our friends on BBC television, >>> ##: our friends in ITN, last but not least our friends in Capital >>> ##: Radio in London and on Radio 1. Please give details of when, where and by whom these comments were made, so that they can be checked. This was four, five years ago... sorry, I don't remember. I can remember individual incidents, words which were repeated by different people at different times in different locations. Around the end of 1992 Private Eye rtan a front-cover with John and Norma Major, with the title "Major's support lowest ever" and John saying to Norma "Come back norma" on the front cover. What can you read in to that? Not a lot, seems like standard fare for PE. The first time I saw it I was in the pub with some people from work. One was expressing doubts to the other (let's call the first one Simon, shall we? and the second one Phil?) about whether what was going on was right. Phil's answer was that if Private Eye was doing it then it must be ok, "they're usually right". A few days later, again near work, there were some students laughing in the street, "Were you COMING BACK later? But I thought you said you were COMING BACK ha ha ha?" Play on words, you see. Not very nice, either. I had start medication soon afterwards. Clever people, these chaps who think up PE titles. Just slightly lacking in any sense of morality. >>> ##: How did they do this? I'll give you an example. About a year ago, >>> ##: I was listening to Chris Tarrant (Capital Radio DJ among other >>> ##: pursuits) on his radio morning show, when he said, talking about >>> ##: someone he didn't identify, "you know this bloke? he says we're >>> ##: trying to kill him. We should be done for attempted manslaughter" >>> ##: which mirrored something I had said a day or two before. >>> ##: Now that got broadcast to the whole of London - if any recordings >>> ##: are kept of the shows then it'll be there. What was the date of the broadcast ? Out of 2 million plus listeners, why should you be the only one that Tarrant was allegedly referring to ? Sometyime in spring 1994. I can't remember the date, I heard the broadcast in the car - I was going into the office from London that day and just happened to snap on the radio, and hey presto! Mr Tarrant gives us the benefit of his excellent understanding. >>> ##: That's exactly what we did. We went to a competent, professional >>> ##: detective agency in London, paid them over 400 quid to debug our house. >>> ##: They found nothing. What was the name of the detective agency and their address ? I don't see why I should tell you that, but they're in Yellow Pages; they're a well-established outfit. >>> PM: >What? Spend a quarter mil. a year to amuse themselves? And why not >>> PM: >change every now and again? Why keep watching you? (Unless you _are_ >>> PM: >doing something, and I don't think you are, though you may have some >>> PM: >deep, dark secret in your past.) >>> >>> ##: See the above. Is there a deep dark secret in your past ? Apart from "it's all happened before in a different way", no. >>> ##: In a couple of cases people have even known my name - when I was in >>> ##: London over Easter somebody (no idea who they were, just some bloke with >>> ##: his girlfriend) called me by name - quite clearly, and my name is >>> ##: distinctive. Is your name truly Mike Corley, or are you using it as an alias ? It's an alias. I'm not English by ethnic origin. If someone manages to pronounce my name as well as that guy did then they must have been really trying. >>> ##: There's a little story behind this. First of all, in 1992 I worked >>> ##: for a company where the people made clear they knew what was going on, >>> ##: first of all directly (the very first evening I was there I went out to >>> ##: the pub with them and the Technical Director said to another guy, >>> ##: "is this the bloke who's been on TV?" "yeah, I think so") Have you appeared, or been reported by name on TV ? When, where and by whom ? No. Never. Not directly. >>> ##: Also, in summer 1992 I went on a trip abroad to Europe by coach, What was the name of the coach company and your date of departure ? It was a national express coach. At dover we boarded a ferry for Holland somewhere. The company that organized the trip went out of business some time ago, so they won't have records of passengers - so we can't get any corroboration from anyone else that way. We tried all that last summer, ran into a brick wall. The other thing is in summer 1992 I was visibly ill, so other people in the party might remember that more than anyone getting at me on the coach trip. >>> ##: >>Yes, this gets me. I think the answer is that I was set up by >>> ##: >>someone. I was very aware when this started back in 1990 that I >>> ##: >>was being painted as a "threat" to which people had to "react" Why were you being painted as a "threat"; is this related to a "deep,dark, secret" ? Aaaarrrrgh. I think I should make clear that that's their created justification rather than the real reason. They started harassing first and then came up with the reasons for it. >>> >>> ##: I think I know who set me up. Who ? Someone who knew me some time ago. Someone who would have been able to talk this little campaign into existence. >>> ##: The bloke can't even control his own mind without medicine. Is this true ? What is the medication and dosage ? Yes, I'm afraid so. Sulpiride, 200mg a day. It's designed to stop people coming up with the sort of ideas you've heard here for the last few weeks. Give him a higher dose!! In the long term it causes tardive dyskinesia, tardive dementia and general nasty stuff to your brain. So it's three years of sulpiride talking to you here. >-- >john heelan 2085 ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 2007 13:24:50 GMT From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk Subject: MI5 Persecution: Watch Out, Forger About 27/9/95 (3599) Message-ID: From: ray@ultimate-tech.com (Ray Dunn) Newsgroups: uk.misc,soc.culture.british Subject: Re: An apology from Mike Corley Date: Wed Sep 27 14:20:36 1995 In referenced article, David Wooding says... >Well, Mike Corley might or might not have written the apologies, but I >think not. I thought the following line both witty and imaginative. > >>>It was the razor blades stuffed down between the keys that told me. Corley himself denies posting this "apology", but I'm impressed if it is a forgery. Here's the header of my received email. It looks very genuine except for the fact that postings to newsgroups are directed through demon's mail to news gateway, which is strange. Also the message id is which seems to be in a different format from previous Corley postings, e.g. Received: from SpoolDir by ULTIMATE (Mercury 1.20); 26 Sep 95 12:00:14 +0500 >Return-path: >Received: from mail.torfree.net by smtp.ultimate-tech.com (Mercury 1.20); > 26 Sep 95 12:00:04 +0500 >Received: from bloor.torfree.net ([199.71.188.18]) by mail.torfree.net > (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.6; 16-jun-94) > via sendmail with smtp id > for ; Tue, 26 Sep 95 11:31 EDT >Received: from torfree.net by bloor.torfree.net with smtp > (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0sxbx2-000JEeC; Tue, 26 Sep 95 11:29 EDT >Message-Id: >Apparently-To: bu765@torfree.net, snail@objmedia.demon.co.uk, > ray@ultimate-tech.com, Frank@acclaim.demon.co.uk, > p.marshall@axion.bt.co.uk, me93jrb@brunel.ac.uk, > mikeh@mordor.com, > michael@everyman.demon.co.uk, tim@xara.co.uk, > Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk, uk.misc@news.demon.co.uk, > uk-misc@news.demon.co.uk, uk-media@news.demon.co.uk, > uk.media@news.demon.co.uk, uk.legal@news.demon.co.uk, > uk-legal@news.demon.co.uk, alt-conspiracy@news.demon.co.uk, > alt.conspiracy@news.demon.co.uk, > soc.culture.british@news.demon.co.uk, > soc-culture-british@news.demon.co.uk, > soc-culture-canada@news.demon.co.uk, > soc.culture.canada@news.demon.co.uk >Newsgroups: uk.misc, uk.media, soc.culture.british, soc.culture.canada, uk.legal, alt.conspiracy >From: bu765@torfree.net (Mike Corley) >Subject: Oops! Sorry! >Organization: Toronto Free-Net >X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] >Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1995 01:23:45 GMT >Lines: 27 >X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 -- Ray Dunn (opinions are my own) | Phone: (514) 938 9050 Montreal | Phax : (514) 938 5225 ray@ultimate-tech.com | Home : (514) 630 3749 3599 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:21:24 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: porting ignorance (was Re: Story Time) Message-ID: In article , "Craig A. Berry" writes: > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to > reply) wrote: > > > In article , "Craig > > A. Berry" writes: > > [my comments snipped] > > > I'm reminded of a quote by Dave Jones (author of the "OSU" HTTP server): > > [David Jones's remarks snipped] > > Was there something in particular about my comments that reminded you > of Jones's statement, or are you just free associating? Just associating. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:26:30 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Restoring an IMAGE backup to a BIND volume set ? Message-ID: <46693CE6.9000107@comcast.net> Bob Gezelter wrote: > Syltrem wrote: > >>Hello ! >> >>I need to restore an image backup (40GB) onto a bind set (2 x 36GB) >> >>Since I must mount /FOREIGN for the restore, there is not bind set... >> >>Is there a way around this ? >>Other than doing a normal restore on a mounted drive (or bind set...) >> >>Thanks >> >>-- >>Syltrem >>http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en français) > > > Syltrem, > > First, I would want to make sure precisely what the contents of the > save set are. Are they the contents of both volumes of the bound > volume set? or are they an image backup of one member of the volume > set? > > With all due respect, I will disagree with those who question the > usability of bound volume sets, They are one option to achieve certain > goals. When used correctly, they are a reasonable solution. Depending > on the contents of your backup save set, I would recommend different > approaches. Skip the due respect and stick to the facts. Using bound volume sets is sometimes the reasonable and proper thing to do and I have done it. One clear cut case is when you have a file that is bigger than a single disk. Bound volume sets do have their disadvantages; chief among them is that when you lose any member of the set, the whole thing is toast! There is also the problem of backing them up and restoring them. My own first choice would be to buy and use a bigger disk! And I realize that that is sometimes not possible! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:42:00 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: Restoring an IMAGE backup to a BIND volume set ? Message-ID: <46696ac6$0$326$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> That bug is fixed in LD V8.3 and LD V9.0. V8.3 will stick around since that's the last one supporting VAX. Jur. JF Mezei wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >> I supposed you could mount-bind the two drives >> and then use the LDdriver (now that JFM tested that :-) and restore to >> the LD device?! > > > Remember to NOT use the LDdriver that came with VMS 8.3 for bound volume > sets. I think the later version directly from the developper fixes that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:23:18 -0000 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Restoring an IMAGE backup to a BIND volume set ? Message-ID: <1181319798.820330.305780@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Jun 8, 10:42 am, Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> wrote: > That bug is fixed in LD V8.3 and LD V9.0. V8.3 will stick around since Hey Jur, good to see you here! Does this topic by any chance make you think... 'Hmm, what would it take to offer striped LD allocations' Before you know it you'll be writing a proper 'LVM'. Groetjes, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 2007 16:54:16 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5ctftoF31j1cmU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] On >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: June 6, 2007 9:07 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Story Time >>=20 >> In article <6b73a$4665e85d$cef882ba$14597@teksavvy.com-free>, >> "John Smith" writes: >> > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >> >> In article <5cl50bF2v760eU3@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu >> >> (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> >> >>> This is more meaningful than you might think. We still have a VMS >> >>> machine here for academic use. And every faculty, staff and >> student >> >>> has an account on it. How does this show up in the VMS constant? >> I >> >>> am sure that the existence of this machine is counted in HP's >> numbers >> >>> somewhere. Only problem is, no one uses it. Students haven't >> used >> >>> it for years. The last users were dinosaur faculty who still read >> >>> their email there. But the University Datacenter fixed that. >> They >> >>> stopped letting it receive or send email. Now, it sits int he >> >>> computer room consuming electricity and generating heat. I ran >> the >> >>> last VMS machines for academic use and as everyone here already >> >>> knows, they were shutdown last year. So, I guess at least here, I >> >>> was that ONE GUY. >> >> >> >> OK, you're one guy, and I know another one guy. That's two guys. >> It >> >> used to be, not 2 users, but several thousand users. >> > >> > >> > At this rate of growth of 'continuing' academic use, pretty soon VMS >> will >> > again be running at all universities world-wide :-( >>=20 >> What growth? This university was a net loss. I shut ours down for >> the >> last time last year. As a matter of fact, I will be rolling the >> hardware >> out the door this week. Attempts to save them have failed and the >> floor >> space they occupy is worth way more than any percieved value in the >> actual >> machines. Sad really.... >>=20 >> bill >>=20 > > Bill, > > Just to clarify something ... are you talking business admin or academic > computing ? Everything I do is academic. I have nothing to do with the University datacenter beyond being a user. The datacenter still has one machine running VMS for academic use, but as I said, I doubt the students even know of its existence at this point and I can't imagine anyone else really doing anything with it. Hmmm... Maybe it is still the repository for personal webpages, but I can't say for sure. It's been so long since I last used it I don't even remember my password. :-( And I probably used it more than most, even when I had my own VMS machines running here in the department. > > Did I note in one of your other replies that you stated your University > was running Banner on OpenVMS? Yes. For the moment. I thought I had heard rumblings somewhere about Banner moving to Windows, but I can't say for sure. I hear lot's of rumors around here that aren't even close to reality. In any event, none of the users would have any idea that VMS is involved as all access is through Windows interfaces. > > Thx Your welcome, but I don't know what value this info actually is to you. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 03:45:57 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Thin wire Coax Ethernet on Alpha Message-ID: <1181299557.649379.259410@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Media Convertors (I think Linksys did one) that had UTP on one side and BNC the other were available ten years ago, but they were HORRENDOUSLY expensive! I paid about 70 pounds GB for one just so that I could have an InfoServer in a company that was determined to go all UTP. Preference would be to trawl for one of the DE4xx series cards like the DE450. Steve On 7 Jun, 22:40, dav...@montagar.com wrote: > On Jun 7, 12:45 pm, Keith Parris wrote: > > > Jim Mehlhop wrote: > > > Anyone know of a particular Ethernet board with Thin Wire Coax (10MB) > > > connectorr that will run on an Alpha?? > > > I believe the DE425, DE435, and DE450 PCI cards would qualify. Check the > > Supported Options list for the particular Alphaserver model on the HP > > website. > > If you had to, you can get an adapter box with RJ45 on one side and > RG48 on the other. They used to include those with Alpha's (like the > DEC 3000's) when there was still a lot of thin-wire infrastructure. I > probably have one in a closet somewhere... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 06:35:01 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: using RBLs interactively Message-ID: In article , "John E. Malmberg" writes: > How does it work with zen.spamhaus.org ? Yes, right, stupid mistake on my part. Normally I would unintentionally write "haus" for "house" (since I speak German most of the time), but in this case it's the other way around. I'll have to see why using zen.spamhouse.org returns anything at all! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 06:36:53 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: using RBLs interactively Message-ID: In article <46689A47.E1842627@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > $ ADDRESS = P1 > > $ A = F$ELEMENT(0,".",ADDRESS) > > $ B = F$ELEMENT(1,".",ADDRESS) > > $ C = F$ELEMENT(2,".",ADDRESS) > > $ D = F$ELEMENT(3,".",ADDRESS) > > Out of curiosity, what is the purpose of all this? Why not just symbol > substitute with P1, raw? > > > $ TCPIP SH HOST 'D'.'C'.'B'.'A'.'P2' ! adding a final "." makes no difference Because the order has to be reversed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:45:07 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: using RBLs interactively Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article , "John E. Malmberg" > writes: > > > How does it work with zen.spamhaus.org ? > > Yes, right, stupid mistake on my part. Normally I would unintentionally > write "haus" for "house" (since I speak German most of the time), but in > this case it's the other way around. > > I'll have to see why using zen.spamhouse.org returns anything at all! And here's the answer to the behaviour that John saw, leading to his speculation that all IPv4 addresses are listed: From ----------------------------------------------------------------------- You are probably looking for spamhaus.org! If you are not automatically redirected click here. SPAMHOUSE.ORG is not a DNSbl! Queries to SPAMHOUSE.ORG will ALWAYS return a positive lookup. Please visit SPAMHAUS.ORG's technical page for information on using their excellent DNSbl. This page is not affiliated with Steve Linford or The Spamhaus Project. We do admire his work very much, though. We are also fans of the work done by SPEWS.org, but again have no affiliation. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 08:37:24 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: using RBLs interactively Message-ID: P. Sture wrote: > In article , > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to > reply) wrote: > >> In article , "John E. Malmberg" >> writes: >> >>> How does it work with zen.spamhaus.org ? >> Do you mean lowercase? > > Here's what I see on my system: > > $ type spam_check.com > $ ADDRESS = P1 - "[" - "]" > $ if p2 .eqs. "" then p2 = "zen.spamhaus.org" > $ A = F$ELEMENT(0,".",ADDRESS) > $ B = F$ELEMENT(1,".",ADDRESS) > $ C = F$ELEMENT(2,".",ADDRESS) > $ D = F$ELEMENT(3,".",ADDRESS) > $ TCPIP SH HOST 'D'.'C'.'B'.'A'.'P2' > $ EXIT > $! > $ @spam_check [200.34.32.20] ! from a piece of spam > > BIND database > > Server: aa.bb.cc.dd my.dns.server > > Host address Host name > > 127.0.0.4 20.32.34.200.ZEN.SPAMHAUS.ORG > > But, using an address not in spamhaus: > > $ @spam_check 192.6.234.17 ! one found by "nslookup hp.com" > %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found > -RMS-E-RNF, record not found > You should use something like this: $ ADDRESS = P1 $ if p2 .eqs. "" then p2 = "zen.spamhause.org" $ A = F$ELEMENT(0,".",ADDRESS) $ B = F$ELEMENT(1,".",ADDRESS) $ C = F$ELEMENT(2,".",ADDRESS) $ D = F$ELEMENT(3,".",ADDRESS) $ def sys$output nl: $ on warning then goto notthere $ TCPIP SH HOST 'D'.'C'.'B'.'A'.'P2' ! adding a final "." makes no difference $ deas sys$output $ TCPIP SH HOST 'D'.'C'.'B'.'A'.'P2' ! adding a final "." makes no difference $ goto exiting $ notthere: $ deass sys$output $ write sys$output "Not in ''p2' database" $ exiting: $ EXIT Or use the vms nslookup were a response is returned that is not an error message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:01:54 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: using RBLs interactively Message-ID: In article <9L0ai.92062$n_.79632@attbi_s21>, "John E. Malmberg" writes: >P. Sture wrote: >> In article , >> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to >> reply) wrote: >> >> >>>In article , "John E. Malmberg" >>> writes: >>> >>> >>>>How does it work with zen.spamhaus.org ? >>> >>>Do you mean lowercase? >> >> >> Here's what I see on my system: >> > > >> $ @spam_check 192.6.234.17 ! one found by "nslookup hp.com" >> %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found >> -RMS-E-RNF, record not found > >But it is listed in zen.spamhouse.org. I suspect all of IPv4 is listed. > >$ nslookup 17.234.32.20.zen.spamhouse.org > >Name: 17.234.32.20.ZEN.SPAMHOUSE.ORG >Address: 127.0.0.2 > Try zen.spamhaus.org NOT zen.spamhouse.org zen.spamhouse.org probably does list all IPv4 addresses and returns the TXT records 17.234.32.20.ZEN.SPAMHOUSE.ORG text = "This is not the DNSBL you're looking for." David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >-John >wb8tyw@qsl.network >Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.312 ************************