INFO-VAX Thu, 21 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 335 Contents: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Ope Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! OpenV Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! OpenV And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual Another PDP-11/RSX MCR question Re: Another PDP-11/RSX MCR question bug in 8.3 html docs Re: help backing up nfs drives (dnfs) HTTP Browser intolerance of Applet delays/segmentation Infiniband Re: Installing C compiler from Hobbyist CD Re: Is NOONE using XP10000 & OpenVMS??? Re: NFS - what am I doing wrong? Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option RE: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option RE: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: Top ten dead or dying computer skills (guess what's NOT on the list!) Vax/VMS Media Kit (in particular the COBOL compiler) for Hobbist License. Re: Why is SMTP still relevant? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:14:26 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: <46796e85$0$21928$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > DaveG wrote: >> I read the words "if and when they ever want to migrate". I don't >> interpret that statement as being an "official announcement" to kill >> VMS. > > > It is close to an announcement as can be made without actually killing > VMS. It is a warning to get the hell off VMS ASAP because HP's > intentions are to convince VMS customers to migrate to other HP > platforms. > Combine this with the fact that VMS was the only major product whose > future was not announced until after the merg3er was signed on May > 7th, and on that day, after months of waiting, we are told by > Stallard that he expects VMS customer to migrate to HP-UX. Combine that > with the > total lack of marketing even after VMS ran on that IA64 thing, not > even allowing a press release to the news wires about VMS now running > on HP blades. > > Combine this with Cerner having struck a deal with HP to drop VMS and > port to HP-UX, and Gembase having been told that VMS was dead and thus > dropping plans for further upgrades. > > > If that Ann Livermore thing think she has what it takes to make a good > CEO, and this absolute blunder was truly intentional, then she is far > more incompetant than anyone could have imagined. If she is not > incompetant, then this was not a blunder and was a very strong message > to the VMS user community. VMS does not count for HP. Get used to living in the twilight zone. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jun 2007 18:53:35 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: <5dtbdfF3688jvU1@mid.individual.net> In article <799a8$46786ad5$cef8887a$18382@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei writes: > DaveG wrote: >> I read the words "if and when they ever want to migrate". I don't >> interpret that statement as being an "official announcement" to kill >> VMS. > > > It is close to an announcement as can be made without actually killing > VMS. It is a warning to get the hell off VMS ASAP because HP's > intentions are to convince VMS customers to migrate to other HP platforms. > > Combine this with the fact that VMS was the only major product whose > future was not announced until after the merg3er was signed on May 7th, > and on that day, after months of waiting, we are told by Stallard that > he expects VMS customer to migrate to HP-UX. Combine that with the total > lack of marketing even after VMS ran on that IA64 thing, not even > allowing a press release to the news wires about VMS now running on HP > blades. > > Combine this with Cerner having struck a deal with HP to drop VMS and > port to HP-UX, and Gembase having been told that VMS was dead and thus > dropping plans for further upgrades. Yep. Just saw an ad for a Cerner guy. No experience with Cerner apps needed, will send to school. Requires Unix experience!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:49:37 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Ope Message-ID: <9674a$467984e2$cef8887a$8754@TEKSAVVY.COM> AEF wrote: > C'mon. You're putting the worst possible spin on it. She says she > wants their installed base to be happy, To make the installed base happy, HP needs to stop making allusions to them wanting VMS customers to port to other HP products. To make the installed base happy, HP needs to market VMS so that VMS becomes a palatable platform to higher management. The current method HP is employing is not making the installed base HAPPY. Talk to all those who are seeing ISV support for their middle ware pulled from under them. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:11:41 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: <46796de0$0$21924$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> DaveG wrote: > On Jun 19, 3:58 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> Ken Robinson wrote: >>> Posted with no comment.... >> >> Well, did anyone think that *I* would be able to widthhold comments >> about this ? >> >> Ann Livermore: >> ## >> In particular for our OpenVMS customers, we are very focused on our >> installed base. We want our installed base to be happy, and if or >> when they ever want to migrate, we want them to migrate to another >> HP platform. ## >> >> This pretty much confirms the Stallard memo of May 7th 2002 not >> being a glitch but truly representing HP corporate policy. >> >> If that Livermore isn't an official announcement that HP intends to >> kill VMS, I don't know what it. > > I read the words "if and when they ever want to migrate". I don't > interpret that statement as being an "official announcement" to kill > VMS. You need to learn to parse "corporate speak" Dweeb (now an MS jockey) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:18:01 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: <46796f5b$0$21928$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> AEF wrote: > On Jun 19, 4:58 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> Ken Robinson wrote: >>> Posted with no comment.... >> >> Well, did anyone think that *I* would be able to widthhold comments >> about this ? >> >> Ann Livermore: >> ## >> In particular for our OpenVMS customers, we are very focused on our >> installed base. We want our installed base to be happy, and if or >> when they ever want to migrate, we want them to migrate to another >> HP platform. ## >> >> This pretty much confirms the Stallard memo of May 7th 2002 not >> being a glitch but truly representing HP corporate policy. >> >> If that Livermore isn't an official announcement that HP intends to >> kill VMS, I don't know what it. > > C'mon. You're putting the worst possible spin on it. She says she > wants their installed base to be happy, AND if or when, not "now". So > that means if the customers want to stay with VMS, she wants them to > be happy and they can stay with VMS. > > Now if she said "we want to move them off VMS", then you'd have a > case. > Parsing error - see previous post- This is not physics, this is the careful art of legal and marketing vetted corporate speak where the words and message are not intended to be the same. Dweeb > AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:34:58 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: <1182364498.063028.163860@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Jun 20, 10:12 am, AEF wrote: > On Jun 19, 4:58 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > > > > Ken Robinson wrote: > > > Posted with no comment.... > > > Well, did anyone think that *I* would be able to widthhold comments > > about this ? > > > Ann Livermore: > > ## > > In particular for our OpenVMS customers, we are very focused on our > > installed base. We want our installed base to be happy, and if or when > > they ever want to migrate, we want them to migrate to another HP platform. > > ## > > > This pretty much confirms the Stallard memo of May 7th 2002 not being a > > glitch but truly representing HP corporate policy. > > > If that Livermore isn't an official announcement that HP intends to kill > > VMS, I don't know what it. > > C'mon. You're putting the worst possible spin on it. She says she > wants their installed base to be happy, AND if or when, not "now". So > that means if the customers want to stay with VMS, she wants them to > be happy and they can stay with VMS. > > Now if she said "we want to move them off VMS", then you'd have a > case. > > AEF It says what it says. No spin is needed. "very focused on our installed base" and "we want them to migrate to another HP platform." No pursuing *new* customers or migrating *to* OpenVMS. Throwing in "happy" and "if or when" doesn't change the message. No mention of OpenVMS *wins*; if there are any, why not jump at this opportunity to say so? If there are currently *new* customer's with installations in process, and *new* customers in the process of considering or actually buying OpenVMS, HP is apparently not focused on them and don't care whether they're happy or not. "If or when" could have been a positive if she'd said 'migrating _to_or_ from OpenVMS', but she didn't. Her assumption and desire should be obvious to anyone who reads that statement. Obviously, her idea of what makes the installed OpenVMS customer base *happy* is a bit skewed from reality. If you were serious about promoting OpenVMS, is that how you would have responded to the question? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:52:11 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: <4679856e$0$21925$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Doug Phillips wrote: > On Jun 20, 10:12 am, AEF wrote: >> On Jun 19, 4:58 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> >> >> >>> Ken Robinson wrote: >>>> Posted with no comment.... >> >>> Well, did anyone think that *I* would be able to widthhold comments >>> about this ? >> >>> Ann Livermore: >>> ## >>> In particular for our OpenVMS customers, we are very focused on our >>> installed base. We want our installed base to be happy, and if or >>> when they ever want to migrate, we want them to migrate to another >>> HP platform. ## >> >>> This pretty much confirms the Stallard memo of May 7th 2002 not >>> being a glitch but truly representing HP corporate policy. >> >>> If that Livermore isn't an official announcement that HP intends to >>> kill VMS, I don't know what it. >> >> C'mon. You're putting the worst possible spin on it. She says she >> wants their installed base to be happy, AND if or when, not "now". So >> that means if the customers want to stay with VMS, she wants them to >> be happy and they can stay with VMS. >> >> Now if she said "we want to move them off VMS", then you'd have a >> case. >> >> AEF > > > It says what it says. No spin is needed. "very focused on our > installed base" and "we want them to migrate to another HP platform." > > No pursuing *new* customers or migrating *to* OpenVMS. Throwing in > "happy" and "if or when" doesn't change the message. No mention of > OpenVMS *wins*; if there are any, why not jump at this opportunity to > say so? If there are currently *new* customer's with installations in > process, and *new* customers in the process of considering or actually > buying OpenVMS, HP is apparently not focused on them and don't care > whether they're happy or not. > > "If or when" could have been a positive if she'd said 'migrating > _to_or_ from OpenVMS', but she didn't. > > Her assumption and desire should be obvious to anyone who reads that > statement. Obviously, her idea of what makes the installed OpenVMS > customer base *happy* is a bit skewed from reality. > > If you were serious about promoting OpenVMS, is that how you would > have responded to the question? R.I.P. VMS fed my family for more than 20 years. I have got over what Palmaer, Curly, Carley and now Hurd have done. Move on, and as a matter of principle, never buy anything from HP again. I certainly have not spent 1 cent there since the CompaQ days, and have made sure that others did likewise. It makes no difference I know, but it makes me feel better. Of course spending at M$ is worse, but what is a poor boy gonna do? I have to pay for the grits somehow! I know of few VMS sites that are not actively engaged in deserting VMS - they have no choice and they know it. It is just a matter of planning and execution. Most seem to be going "anywhere but HP", but the ink salesmen couldn't care less I guess. They certainly treat the customers that way. cheers Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:57:57 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: <1182387477.151964.284660@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 20, 8:47 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: > > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:45:09 -0700, David J Dachtera > > wrote: > > > >> [snip] Can > > >> you think of any other business that operates in this fashion? > > > Government? > > > You missed the point, a company has two products, A has 20% margins and > > sells 100 units > > B has 10% margin and sells 500 units. > > Actually, I think it's more like: > > A - 48% margin, 1,000 units > > B - 10% margin, 2,000,000 units Now ... imagine the huge profit gains from switching even a small percentage of B systems to A systems! > > -- > David J Dachtera [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:59:16 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:47:46 -0700, David J Dachtera wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> >> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:45:09 -0700, David J Dachtera >> wrote: >> >> >> [snip] Can >> >> you think of any other business that operates in this fashion? >> > Government? >> >> You missed the point, a company has two products, A has 20% margins and >> sells 100 units >> B has 10% margin and sells 500 units. > > Actually, I think it's more like: > > A - 48% margin, 1,000 units > > B - 10% margin, 2,000,000 units > We're getting a bit sloppy here, and I have checked the numbers for a while, but HP's margins on PC's were somewhere around 2 to 3%, and I don't rememeber what the numbers were for Windows servers and HP-UX servers, although I don't think any of them were over 10% -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:47:46 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! OpenV Message-ID: <4679CAB2.6354D393@spam.comcast.net> Tom Linden wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:45:09 -0700, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > >> [snip] Can > >> you think of any other business that operates in this fashion? > > Government? > > You missed the point, a company has two products, A has 20% margins and > sells 100 units > B has 10% margin and sells 500 units. Actually, I think it's more like: A - 48% margin, 1,000 units B - 10% margin, 2,000,000 units -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:21:53 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! OpenV Message-ID: <4679D2B1.E2EEE338@spam.comcast.net> AEF wrote: > > On Jun 20, 8:47 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > Tom Linden wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:45:09 -0700, David J Dachtera > > > wrote: > > > > > >> [snip] Can > > > >> you think of any other business that operates in this fashion? > > > > Government? > > > > > You missed the point, a company has two products, A has 20% margins and > > > sells 100 units > > > B has 10% margin and sells 500 units. > > > > Actually, I think it's more like: > > > > A - 48% margin, 1,000 units > > > > B - 10% margin, 2,000,000 units > > Now ... imagine the huge profit gains from switching even a small > percentage of B systems to A systems! Ah, yes... Great minds... Eh? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:13:30 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual Message-ID: Hi, For those of you who, after reading this thread, may be thinking that Ann Livermore (I've got no idea who she is in HP and don't care) was responding to a question such as "What are your feelings with regard to the future strategic directionsof VMS?" or "How does your VMS strategy differ from your other OS stable?" or "Just speak randonmly on any issue for 30secs", here's the actual question she was reponding to: - [That expertise and quality are the issue. Last fall I spoke with two high-profile HP partners who are OpenVMS consultants. They were very concerned about services being outsourced to places like China and India, because they said the support technicians there simply don't have the expertise that's required and aren't getting the training they need. What's your response?] I read that like the reporter, and whoever he was talking to (VMS people "In particular"), accused HP of shafting the installed base by outsourcing support to Bangalore, Mumbai and Brisbane. So she says something as bland as [We value the installed base enough to want to keep them sweet so that they stick with us if and when they move architectures.] or [Your call is important to us!] and it gets translated in COV to [I'm sick of that grave-dodging bastard VMS! Kill it - And kill it now!] Absolute disbelief :-( But whatever you do, listen to Dr. Dweeb; VMS *is* dead! (and has been for years) Move on! So there can be absolutely *no* reason to keep telling everybody about its death for the next days, months, YEARS now can there? Cheers Richard Maher "Ken Robinson" wrote in message news:7dd80f60706191324k5c0c4b9ch2ae8e4895e970946@mail.gmail.com... > The articles are "Q&A: HP's Ann Livermore addresses company's services > issues" > and "Hurd: HP will show users how to run IT" > > > Posted with no comment.... > > Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:26:47 -0700 From: Jeff Cameron Subject: Another PDP-11/RSX MCR question Message-ID: Here I am, back again hoping to find a fellow Paleocyberneticist with a particular inkling for the species PeeDeePeeElevinus-AreEssEcksiallis. I have become quite adept at scripting command procedures in my inherited PDP-11 system running RSX. Its not VMS DCL, mind you, but I do know it was ahead of its time. I'm trying to get the output of a MCR command to go to a file. The command gets the specifics of where LAT terminal connections are coming from: MCR> LCP SHOW PORT In an indirect command procedure, I am just trying to get the output of this command to a file. I have tried the ASN (Assign command), but we do not have logical name support installed due to insufficient pool space. From the LUN command, I can determine the lun of the LCP program is unit 1. I tried using the REA (Reassign) command to reassign the lun, but it only accepts specifications and not partial or full file specifications. In general, I would like to be able to get the output of any command (besides PIP) into a file. In essence, the equivalent of: $ DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT $ Thank you in advance. Jeff Cameron "The Moaning Paleocyberneticist" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 23:33:34 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: Another PDP-11/RSX MCR question Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 20 Jun 2007, Jeff Cameron wrote: > In general, I would like to be able to get the output of any command > (besides PIP) into a file. In general, RSX does not have this capability. You could send the command to a batch job and then parse the log file. The better way would be a utility that captures the output of a command. I don't know if it has ever been written. I have never needed it, so I have never looked for it nor written it. It could be a fairly simple program: create a virtual terminal with CRVT$ log on to the virtual terminal by SPWN$ "hello" send command to virtual terminal with SPWN$ capture output and write to file optionally log out and delete virtual terminal with ELVT$ hth. Send money and I'll write it for you. - - Rob - -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGeblM7dpyz1U70VQRAhPlAJoCi22vkjLucENE/gFwDpifJogU9QCgzp+/ tXJIUkq6h9c53g3up7xofx8= =NlL1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:23:28 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: bug in 8.3 html docs Message-ID: I was reading up on Ia64 licensing in chapter 3 and noticed annoyingly = that the examples are one long line, the HTML code is wrong. Here is on= e = of many examples of the source text environments, the hierarchy among them, and the products contained in ea= ch = OE by using the following command:


 =
$ SHOW  =

LICENSE/HIER/FULL                        Operating Environment  =

Hierarchy                      -------------------------------  --------=
-  =

Operating Environment ---------- ------ Units ------  Name      =

Description            Type Level   Loaded      Total   MCOE     Mission=
  =

Critical         H    2          2          2       RTR-SVR   VMSCLUSTER=
    =

VMSCLUSTER-CLIENT EOE      Enterprise               H    1           =

-          2        DECRAM   RMSJNL   AVAIL_MAN   VOLSHAD   SYSMGT  =

FOE      Foundation               H    0          2          4        =

OPENVMS-I64   OPENVMS-USER   DVNETEND   DW-MOTIF   UCX   TDC   DCOM-MIDL=
    =

X500-ADMIN-FACILITY   X500-DIRECTORY-SERVER
Was this generated, I wonder, with DECDocument? -- = PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:59:20 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: help backing up nfs drives (dnfs) Message-ID: <4679CD68.E26023AC@spam.comcast.net> "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" wrote: > > Hello > I'm trying to backup some dnfsXXX drives using VMS backup enstead of > BackupExec. When I use this command, I get the following error > OCTANS>backup/image/media=comp/ignore=interlock/noassist/log dnfs3: > $99$mkb700:adonis.bck/sav > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, ADONIS mounted on _$99$MKB700: (ZULU) > %BACKUP-F-PROCINDEX, error processing index file on DNFS3:, RVN 1 > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > So I tried this > OCTANS>backup/init/log/ignore=interlock/noassist dnfs3:[000000...]*.* > $99$mkb700:adonis.bck/sav > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, ADONIS mounted on _$99$MKB700: (ZULU) > %BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory DNFS3:[000000] > -SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control list > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied DNFS3:[000000]000000.DIR;1 > Then backup drops to the command prompt. Is there a way to backup DNFS > devices using VMS backup?? Well, I wouldn't expect /IMAGE to work. No-go on [000000] is not surprising, though I'd likely have tried that, also. How 'bout: $ mount/for/noassist $99$mkb700 $ back/log/noassist dnfs3:[*...]*.* - $99$mkb700:adonis.bck/init/block=32256 $ dism $99$mkb700 You might not need /INIT, depending. /SAVESET is assumed when the output device is magtape, and cannot be over-ridden. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:09:32 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: HTTP Browser intolerance of Applet delays/segmentation Message-ID: Hi, Can anyone point me to an RFC or any other spec, documentation, or standard that describes what a HTTP browser/client should do when receiving an Applet body (could be any file transmission for that matter) from a server. My guess at what Internet Explorer 6 is doing is non-blocking socket reads on the http connection and as soon as one returns an error (or zero bytes transferred) then it clocks-it as a fail and tries again. If it fails N times (Where 'N' appears to be 3) it starts asking for class files. I only experience this problem when I set the transfer page size for the server down to low values like 1K or 2K (and it can go up to 32K) but it certainly appears that if the browser's Reads are quicker than the server can get the stuff onto the wire, then it barfs. I don't know if this is IE only (ie6 only) or all browsers, which is why I'm asking for a pointer to standard or spec that says "On a http connection you should not assume that a zero byte non-blocking read indicates a socket close at the other end". Or some browser config parameter that can be set like the Socket.connect(host, port, TIMEOUT) Any thoughts, experiences, help? Just increase the page size till it stops happening? Cheers Richard Maher ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:42:56 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Infiniband Message-ID: Hi, Anyone got a pointer to a brochure/white-paper on Infiniband as a cluster Interconnect with VMS. Just the high-level stuff like "How much faster it is", "What are the distance limitations", "What's it got to do with C-class blades", "Is it wonderful or irrelevant". Cheers Richard Maher ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:24:51 -0700 From: rtk Subject: Re: Installing C compiler from Hobbyist CD Message-ID: <1182389091.782709.35900@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Jun 20, 4:16 am, "P. Sture" wrote: > and in one go including the source directory: > $ @sys$update:vmsinstal cc065 source_dev:[source_dir] > (that's the device and directory where your CC065.A kit is) This worked just fine. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:42:44 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Is NOONE using XP10000 & OpenVMS??? Message-ID: <4679C984.EAE2E6DD@spam.comcast.net> BaxterD@tessco.com wrote: > > On Jun 19, 9:35 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > Rob Brooks wrote: > > > > > Baxt...@tessco.com writes: > > > > We have an issue with displaying multipath devices presented from > > > > an XP10000 to OpenVMS 7.3-2 (Alpha) and OpenVMS 8.3 (IA64). > > > > > > We would love to hear from ANYone who is running XP storage with > > > > OpenVMS!! > > > > To all who replied, thanks. > > The main reason for our post was the difficulty we were having > actually getting anyone from HP who knew XP with OpenVMS, or finding > anyone at Hitachi who even heard of OpenVMS. > > We finally managed to talk to a very knowledgible guy (from VMS > Engineering, I think) called Brian, who talked us through the problem, > and brought it to a resolution in probably less than 15 minutes. > > Problem was that the Console LUNs were not being correctly presented > to the OpenVMS hosts. > Executing a "show dev gg" showed no devices, and this identified the > problem. > > Once this was resolved, the paths now show up (after the usual "sysman > io auto", etc.) So the fix was ... what? Manually creating $1$GGA devices? Changing something on the XP array? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:43:26 -0700 From: Don Subject: Re: NFS - what am I doing wrong? Message-ID: <1182368606.548476.269050@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com> I have tried using nfsAxe as a PC client, same result. The purpose of the local mount was to reduce the number of computers that might be mis-configured. Don ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:18:22 GMT From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > To view the HP-ETV, you must have browser Cookies enabled, Macromedia Flash Player, > and a supported Browser/Operating System/Media Player configuration. > > For additional system requirements and further help, Click Here... > > > Which yeilds: > > Q: What do I need to view this site? > A: Your computer must meet the following requirements to successfully view this site: > Operating System Requirements > Microsoft Windows XP (SP1, SP2), 2000, 98 (SE) OR Macintosh OSX > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- got this > Browser Requirements > For PC users we recommend the latest versions of: Internet Explorer, FireFox, > Mozilla OR Netscape > For Mac users we recommend the latest versions of: Safari, FireFox OR Mozilla > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-----^^^^^^-- got this > Media Player Requirements > Windows Media Player 9+(for PC IE users) OR Macromedia Flash 7.0.25 Good job I didn't read this rubbish. Worked fine on Ubuntu 6.10 + Firefox 2.0.0.4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:39:43 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: In article <5dt4enF35qc8vU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1182356790.811635.277740@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > IanMiller writes: > > I also though it interesting that the non-stop system took longer than > > VMS to failover. > > > > The linux platform was the slowest [except for the fish] > > Probably because it didn't failover. They just changed the IP address > and re-booted it to take the place of the other system. :-) > > Like I said, it was funny. It is so contrived as to be almost absurd. > Like the "bulletproof" one. Let me pick the path of the bullet and I > can shoot a hole in my home built RAID arrays without a hiccup, too. > Or, go back to the original "bulletproof" add, Master Locks. Stood up > to a 30.06 shell but I can open it with the nail file in my pocket. What cracked me up was seeing everyone wearing white coats. I don't think I've ever seen a hardware or software type actually wearing a white coat (in real life - Hollywood doesn't count). Come on Bill. This was obviously theatre for the masses. Picking holes in it is like spoiling a good western by claiming that they didn't make that model of Winchester until a few years after the film was set. > What they would really need are some verifiable, real world testimonials > from people who's datacenters have survived disasters like floods or > tornadoes or earthquakes. ... Yes, but only for those seriously interested. Let's leave the entertainment element there for the masses. Addendum: What _really_ cracked me up was the idea of a natural gas line in a data centre in the first place. Someone hadn''t done their job properly there. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jun 2007 21:10:55 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <5dtjevF35a760U1@mid.individual.net> In article , "P. Sture" writes: > In article <5dt4enF35qc8vU1@mid.individual.net>, > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article <1182356790.811635.277740@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >> IanMiller writes: >> > I also though it interesting that the non-stop system took longer than >> > VMS to failover. >> > >> > The linux platform was the slowest [except for the fish] >> >> Probably because it didn't failover. They just changed the IP address >> and re-booted it to take the place of the other system. :-) >> >> Like I said, it was funny. It is so contrived as to be almost absurd. >> Like the "bulletproof" one. Let me pick the path of the bullet and I >> can shoot a hole in my home built RAID arrays without a hiccup, too. >> Or, go back to the original "bulletproof" add, Master Locks. Stood up >> to a 30.06 shell but I can open it with the nail file in my pocket. > > What cracked me up was seeing everyone wearing white coats. I don't > think I've ever seen a hardware or software type actually wearing a > white coat (in real life - Hollywood doesn't count). What!!!!! You mean I'm not supposed to be wearing mine. Now I am truly disappointed. > > Come on Bill. This was obviously theatre for the masses. Picking holes > in it is like spoiling a good western by claiming that they didn't make > that model of Winchester until a few years after the film was set. Oh, I do that all the time. Last Samurai was a great movie and the chronological screw-ups just added to the enjoyment. :-) > >> What they would really need are some verifiable, real world testimonials >> from people who's datacenters have survived disasters like floods or >> tornadoes or earthquakes. ... > > Yes, but only for those seriously interested. Let's leave the > entertainment element there for the masses. > > Addendum: What _really_ cracked me up was the idea of a natural gas line > in a data centre in the first place. Someone hadn''t done their job > properly there. Well, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who wondered about that. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:45:38 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: IanMiller [mailto:gxys@uk2.net] > Sent: June 20, 2007 9:54 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option >=20 > See the video at >=20 > http://www.hp.com/go/disasterproof >=20 > and see which operating system recovers first. I wonder about the > disaster tolerant fish though :-) For those looking for new OpenVMS brochures, check out: (June 2007) Building a disaster-proof data center with HP OpenVMS http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA1-3405ENW.pdf=20 extract: HP OpenVMS has long been known as the "gold`standard" for disaster-tolerance1 and has long been hailed in the industry for its security and reliability. Over the years it has helped many commercial users avert business tragedies by protecting their critical operations and keeping their business processes up and running despite and during major disasters. These disasters range from localized human error to catastrophes such as that which occurred on September 11, 2001. Yet because enterprises generally do not like to speak publicly about any type of disaster, it has been difficult to demonstrate the capabilities of OpenVMS to those who remain skeptical. That has now changed. In a successful and dramatic demonstration of the disaster-tolerant capabilities of OpenVMS, Hewlett-Packard set up multi-site disaster tolerant cluster configurations, including an OpenVMS cluster, and then destroyed the equivalent of one entire data center, with all of its servers, SAN, storage, and network equipment. In the wake of this event on May 17, 2007, the applications on OpenVMS paused only briefly before continuing unaffected and with no loss of data or transactions, thus proving HP's claim that OpenVMS environments can, indeed, provide up to 100% application availability. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:41:42 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <5845$4679bb48$cef8887a$10787@TEKSAVVY.COM> Main, Kerry wrote: > HP OpenVMS has long been known as the "gold`standard" for > disaster-tolerance1 and has long been hailed in the industry for its > security and reliability. Unfortunatly, its owner refruses to hail it. Refuses to market it and expects the remaining customers to migrate FROM it. > That has now changed. In a successful and dramatic demonstration of the > disaster-tolerant capabilities of OpenVMS, Hewlett-Packard set up At the same time as Livermore has basically admitted VMS has no future and they want customers to migrate FROM VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:44:18 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: Hi Paul, > What cracked me up was seeing everyone wearing white coats. I did once work in a private bank in London where all the IT staff had to own frock coats to be worn on special occasions. (some big knob walking 'round the office?) But then everyone in the bank (apart from contractors!) had to own one, so I suppose that doen't count. (Pretty sure they only did away with the practise when they were taken over again a few years ago) Cheers Richard Maher PS. How's the hip coming along? "P. Sture" wrote in message news:paul.sture.nospam-5301A5.22394320062007@mac.sture.ch... > In article <5dt4enF35qc8vU1@mid.individual.net>, > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > > > In article <1182356790.811635.277740@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > IanMiller writes: > > > I also though it interesting that the non-stop system took longer than > > > VMS to failover. > > > > > > The linux platform was the slowest [except for the fish] > > > > Probably because it didn't failover. They just changed the IP address > > and re-booted it to take the place of the other system. :-) > > > > Like I said, it was funny. It is so contrived as to be almost absurd. > > Like the "bulletproof" one. Let me pick the path of the bullet and I > > can shoot a hole in my home built RAID arrays without a hiccup, too. > > Or, go back to the original "bulletproof" add, Master Locks. Stood up > > to a 30.06 shell but I can open it with the nail file in my pocket. > > What cracked me up was seeing everyone wearing white coats. I don't > think I've ever seen a hardware or software type actually wearing a > white coat (in real life - Hollywood doesn't count). > > Come on Bill. This was obviously theatre for the masses. Picking holes > in it is like spoiling a good western by claiming that they didn't make > that model of Winchester until a few years after the film was set. > > > What they would really need are some verifiable, real world testimonials > > from people who's datacenters have survived disasters like floods or > > tornadoes or earthquakes. ... > > Yes, but only for those seriously interested. Let's leave the > entertainment element there for the masses. > > Addendum: What _really_ cracked me up was the idea of a natural gas line > in a data centre in the first place. Someone hadn''t done their job > properly there. > > -- > Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:19:16 GMT From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: In article <5845$4679bb48$cef8887a$10787@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei wrote: > Main, Kerry wrote: > > HP OpenVMS has long been known as the "gold`standard" for > > disaster-tolerance1 and has long been hailed in the industry for its > > security and reliability. > > Unfortunatly, its owner refruses to hail it. Refuses to market it and > expects the remaining customers to migrate FROM it. > > > > That has now changed. In a successful and dramatic demonstration of the > > disaster-tolerant capabilities of OpenVMS, Hewlett-Packard set up > > At the same time as Livermore has basically admitted VMS has no future > and they want customers to migrate FROM VMS. Wow! How predictable!! But a bit slow. I expected you to offer some bad news in under 13 seconds. :-( But I'm happy! I'm setting up my brand new Macintosh (replacing my 12-year old one). I'm setting up a new news client application. I FINALLY have killfile support!! Oh Happy Day!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:37:36 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <66a0d$4679d672$cef8887a$16924@TEKSAVVY.COM> Robert Deininger wrote: > I FINALLY have killfile support!! I too am setting up a new mac with OS-X and it is quite the learning curve and headaches since Apple decided to widthdraw support for Appletalk and I cannot copy files from my 8.6 system to the new system, and the user interface between 8.6 and 10.x is akin to decwindows and CDE. One was very simple and easily customisable to fit your organisational needs, the other is cute, but a lot harder to customise and much less natural to use. Now, having clicked on the wrong button, I have set it to use my mouse's button as the main button... but my mouse has only one button and it has rendered the system useless. Now, back on topic. I really hate to say this. But when HP finally does make the announcement that VMS is to be rendered mature and maintenance done in India, you are definitely not one I will feel sorry for. Remember that all of us loyalist who have been pushing and defending VMS all these years will not be getting any compensation and nice severance packages from HP. We don't even get a letter to apologise for their stupid decisions ruining our careers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:38:44 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: Hi Kerry, > See the video at > > http://www.hp.com/go/disasterproof I'm more of your one dimensional Fred-Flintstont/Homer-Simpson kinda guy, and not as sophisticated as the average discerning connoisseur from the COV cognoscenti, but hey I loved it! Shame it can't condense into 30secs TV. Well done to whoever set it up. But how dare they mention OpenVMS first? And show it out-performing the othe OS? Surely, that act alone saves us from another delightful three weeks of bitching and moaning in COV? > For those looking for new OpenVMS brochures, check out: (June 2007) > > Building a disaster-proof data center with HP OpenVMS > http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA1-3405ENW.pdf This was the one thing that I'd complain about in the video; just how many of the other OSs were in active-active confugurations? What constituted "failover time" in the demo? (Especially when VMS didn't failover but just kept ticking after a pregnat-pause) How many of the other OSs had users active at the two sites and had the B sites user's keep on tickin'? Cheers Richard Maher "Main, Kerry" wrote in message news:FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868402472539@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... > -----Original Message----- > From: IanMiller [mailto:gxys@uk2.net] > Sent: June 20, 2007 9:54 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option > > See the video at > > http://www.hp.com/go/disasterproof > > and see which operating system recovers first. I wonder about the > disaster tolerant fish though :-) For those looking for new OpenVMS brochures, check out: (June 2007) Building a disaster-proof data center with HP OpenVMS http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA1-3405ENW.pdf extract: HP OpenVMS has long been known as the "gold`standard" for disaster-tolerance1 and has long been hailed in the industry for its security and reliability. Over the years it has helped many commercial users avert business tragedies by protecting their critical operations and keeping their business processes up and running despite and during major disasters. These disasters range from localized human error to catastrophes such as that which occurred on September 11, 2001. Yet because enterprises generally do not like to speak publicly about any type of disaster, it has been difficult to demonstrate the capabilities of OpenVMS to those who remain skeptical. That has now changed. In a successful and dramatic demonstration of the disaster-tolerant capabilities of OpenVMS, Hewlett-Packard set up multi-site disaster tolerant cluster configurations, including an OpenVMS cluster, and then destroyed the equivalent of one entire data center, with all of its servers, SAN, storage, and network equipment. In the wake of this event on May 17, 2007, the applications on OpenVMS paused only briefly before continuing unaffected and with no loss of data or transactions, thus proving HP's claim that OpenVMS environments can, indeed, provide up to 100% application availability. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:05:42 GMT From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: In article , "Richard Maher" wrote: > Hi Kerry, > > > See the video at > > > > http://www.hp.com/go/disasterproof > > I'm more of your one dimensional Fred-Flintstont/Homer-Simpson kinda guy, > and not as sophisticated as the average discerning connoisseur from the COV > cognoscenti, but hey I loved it! Shame it can't condense into 30secs TV. > Well done to whoever set it up. I think so too. Pretty good explosion. :-) I didn't see the video until today. It wasn't available inside because they were afraid it would leak out before the official "event". > But how dare they mention OpenVMS first? And show it out-performing the othe > OS? Surely, that act alone saves us from another delightful three weeks of > bitching and moaning in COV? You don't really think so, do you? > > For those looking for new OpenVMS brochures, check out: (June 2007) > > > > Building a disaster-proof data center with HP OpenVMS > > http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA1-3405ENW.pdf > > This was the one thing that I'd complain about in the video; just how many > of the other OSs were in active-active confugurations? > > What constituted "failover time" in the demo? (Especially when VMS didn't > failover but just kept ticking after a pregnat-pause) > > How many of the other OSs had users active at the two sites and had the B > sites user's keep on tickin'? Good questions. Maybe there are (or will be) brochures for the other OS's. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:07 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] > Sent: June 20, 2007 9:39 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option >=20 > Hi Kerry, >=20 > > See the video at > > > > http://www.hp.com/go/disasterproof >=20 > I'm more of your one dimensional Fred-Flintstont/Homer-Simpson kinda > guy, > and not as sophisticated as the average discerning connoisseur from > the COV > cognoscenti, but hey I loved it! Shame it can't condense into 30secs > TV. > Well done to whoever set it up. >=20 > But how dare they mention OpenVMS first? And show it out-performing > the othe > OS? Surely, that act alone saves us from another delightful three > weeks of > bitching and moaning in COV? >=20 > > For those looking for new OpenVMS brochures, check out: (June 2007) > > > > Building a disaster-proof data center with HP OpenVMS > > http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA1-3405ENW.pdf >=20 > This was the one thing that I'd complain about in the video; just how > many > of the other OSs were in active-active confugurations? >=20 > What constituted "failover time" in the demo? (Especially when VMS > didn't > failover but just kept ticking after a pregnat-pause) >=20 > How many of the other OSs had users active at the two sites and had > the B > sites user's keep on tickin'? Not sure, but likely none since all the others are active-passive cluster designs. As fyi, NSK uses replication as well ..=20 Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:33:36 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: "Main, Kerry" wrote in message news:FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868402472539@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... > -----Original Message----- > From: IanMiller [mailto:gxys@uk2.net] > Sent: June 20, 2007 9:54 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option > > See the video at > > http://www.hp.com/go/disasterproof > > and see which operating system recovers first. I wonder about the > disaster tolerant fish though :-) For those looking for new OpenVMS brochures, check out: (June 2007) Building a disaster-proof data center with HP OpenVMS http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA1-3405ENW.pdf extract: HP OpenVMS has long been known as the "gold`standard" for disaster-tolerance1 and has long been hailed in the industry for its security and reliability. Over the years it has helped many commercial users avert business tragedies by protecting their critical operations and keeping their business processes up and running despite and during major disasters. These disasters range from localized human error to catastrophes such as that which occurred on September 11, 2001. Yet because enterprises generally do not like to speak publicly about any type of disaster, it has been difficult to demonstrate the capabilities of OpenVMS to those who remain skeptical. That has now changed. In a successful and dramatic demonstration of the disaster-tolerant capabilities of OpenVMS, Hewlett-Packard set up multi-site disaster tolerant cluster configurations, including an OpenVMS cluster, and then destroyed the equivalent of one entire data center, with all of its servers, SAN, storage, and network equipment. In the wake of this event on May 17, 2007, the applications on OpenVMS paused only briefly before continuing unaffected and with no loss of data or transactions, thus proving HP's claim that OpenVMS environments can, indeed, provide up to 100% application availability. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 05:07:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Cydrome Leader Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: P. Sture wrote: > In article <5dt4enF35qc8vU1@mid.individual.net>, > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article <1182356790.811635.277740@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >> IanMiller writes: >> > I also though it interesting that the non-stop system took longer than >> > VMS to failover. >> > >> > The linux platform was the slowest [except for the fish] >> >> Probably because it didn't failover. They just changed the IP address >> and re-booted it to take the place of the other system. :-) >> >> Like I said, it was funny. It is so contrived as to be almost absurd. >> Like the "bulletproof" one. Let me pick the path of the bullet and I >> can shoot a hole in my home built RAID arrays without a hiccup, too. >> Or, go back to the original "bulletproof" add, Master Locks. Stood up >> to a 30.06 shell but I can open it with the nail file in my pocket. > > What cracked me up was seeing everyone wearing white coats. I don't > think I've ever seen a hardware or software type actually wearing a > white coat (in real life - Hollywood doesn't count). I'm pretty sure Control Data techs of some sort did in the 70s-early 80s. What video was pretty stupid. All that I could tell was they failed over a SAN and had machines at both locations. The operating systems were irrelevant as far as was visible. hardly interesting or impressive, but I guess a video about a fiber cut, or electricians cutting power by accident would be too boring. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:10:04 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Top ten dead or dying computer skills (guess what's NOT on the list!) Message-ID: <1182395404.045424.234800@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Jun 20, 12:25 pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > Whether or not VMS should be on the list, one skill that should be on the > list but isn't is assembly language programming. The list is a list of skills where Gartner is not currently being paid to market them. This means that Accenture and Information Week aren't currently being paid to market them. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:15:12 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Vax/VMS Media Kit (in particular the COBOL compiler) for Hobbist License. Message-ID: <4679ed43$0$4311$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net> I would like to either buy or borrow a media kit for OpenVMS 7.3. Is there anyone in the Central Texas area who has a copy and would be willing let me get a copy of it please? I think this is legal, as I don't see any restrictions on that, so long as you don't pass the licenses along with it. Thanks -Paul Paul dot Raulerson at GMAIL . com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:22:14 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: Why is SMTP still relevant? Message-ID: Ron Johnson wrote in news:fnwdi.147873$NK5.83353@newsfe23.lga: > On 06/18/07 04:39, John Wallace wrote: >> "Ron Johnson" wrote in message >> news:p50di.582903$2Q1.250900@newsfe16.lga... >>> On 06/16/07 20:04, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> [snip] >>>> So, what is the technological solution? >>> Hardened operating systems and some sort of email-account >>> pre-registration with organizations that issue web-of-trust PGP/GPG >>> digital signatures. Every user would need to think of a strong >>> passphrase before being allowed to send email. All emails would >>> have to be signed. Using computers and the internet would become >>> *much* more complicated and usage would plummet. >>> >>> Computers would then only be used by geeks and other sundry >>> propeller-heads and technophiles. Life will be good again! >>> >>> -- >>> Ron Johnson, Jr. >>> Jefferson LA USA >> >> (long post, sorry) >> >> You just (almost) described some of the attributes of an X.400 >> standards-based secure email system, at least as I used to understand >> them some considerable time ago. Apart from the complexity bit of >> course; internal complexity does not necessarily have to be exposed >> to the user or (mostly) to the administrator (VMS is a prime >> example). >> > [snip] >> >> Anyone care to enlighten me as to why a "paradigm shift" (ouch) to >> X.400 isn't the answer and band-aids are? I do realise that such a >> shift wouldn't take place overnight and that interoperability tools >> would be needed (which is fine, they existed years ago). I also >> realise there is a whole SMTP-dependent ecosystem out there, from >> mailserver vendors to band-aid vendors to ISPs to spammers and more, >> whose interests will not be best served if the underlying mail system >> suddenly loses the vulnerabilities on which their commercial >> activities depend, and there are staff who won't want their SMTP >> skills to become irrelevant, but is this really the main reason SMTP >> survives well beyond its "use by" date? There's also the "not >> invented here" factor, X.400 didn't come from the Internerd/RFC >> community, it came from those nasty telco folks, but twenty-odd years >> later doesn't the reality look like the telcos may have been the ones >> going the right way, maybe they were just a bit before the cheap >> computing power (and bandwidth) was available? > > Installed base. There are a *lot* of SMTP servers out there. > No problem. Use both methods until you're satisfied that SMTP isn't providing sufficient value after including the costs of filtering it, then you're dealing exclusively with the improved system. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.335 ************************