INFO-VAX Fri, 29 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 352 Contents: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* How to structure installation of TCPIP related products Re: How to structure installation of TCPIP related products Re: How to structure installation of TCPIP related products Re: How to structure installation of TCPIP related products IP Lease Re: IP Lease Re: IP Lease Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: Question on FCS vs RMS on PDP11 RSX Re: Question on FCS vs RMS on PDP11 RSX Re: Question on FCS vs RMS on PDP11 RSX Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support VAX logo ? Re: VAX logo ? Re: VAX logo ? Re: VAX logo ? Re: VTJ V10 Re: VTJ V10 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Jun 2007 07:36:43 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: In article <2af4b$46842653$cef8887a$17660@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> The answers are contained in OPCDEF (such as opcdef.h for C, $OPCDEF >> for Macro). The Users' Guide for the language you're using will tell >> you where to find these system definitions. > > > Isn't that for sending messages to OPCOM ? > > When you use a mailbox to receive broadcasts, I wa under the impression > that all you got was the textual OPCOM messages that would otherwise > have been sent to your terminal in ascii text. (which is why I never > bothered trying it since I would much prefer getting a "structured" > OPCOM message. > > OPCOM messages, as displayed on screen, do not contain which class the > sender mentioned. It's been a long time, I was under the impression that you could receive the messages in the format they were sent to OPCOM. Perhaps I'm remembering an undocumented API we used under VMS 2.x. Or maybe I just got it backward from some work we did to send messages to OPCOM. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:29:16 GMT From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <2af4b$46842653$cef8887a$17660@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote: >>> The answers are contained in OPCDEF (such as opcdef.h for C, $OPCDEF >>> for Macro). The Users' Guide for the language you're using will tell >>> you where to find these system definitions. >> >> Isn't that for sending messages to OPCOM ? >> >> When you use a mailbox to receive broadcasts, I wa under the impression >> that all you got was the textual OPCOM messages that would otherwise >> have been sent to your terminal in ascii text. (which is why I never >> bothered trying it since I would much prefer getting a "structured" >> OPCOM message. >> >> OPCOM messages, as displayed on screen, do not contain which class the >> sender mentioned. > > It's been a long time, I was under the impression that you could > receive the messages in the format they were sent to OPCOM. Perhaps > I'm remembering an undocumented API we used under VMS 2.x. > > Or maybe I just got it backward from some work we did to send > messages to OPCOM. No, I think you're right - the mailbox is intended for programatic handling of messages, and all the info is available - although there is/was an undocumented $sndopr format, which I think I read in lib or starlet, or similar. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:58:58 +0200 From: "Klaus-D. Bohn" Subject: expanding shadow size Message-ID: <4684f400$0$24512$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> Hello all together, I have an existing problem with a shadow disk. I would like to increase the shadow size without to dismount all the shadow members. I have try it on my test system, but... $ init dkd100: test $ $ init dkd200: test $ sh dev/full dkd100: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Disk $5$DKD100: (IDEFIX), device type DEC RZ1CB-CS, is online, file-oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled. Error count 1 Operations completed 66500 Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W Reference count 0 Default buffer size 512 Total blocks 8380080 Sectors per track 113 Total cylinders 3708 Tracks per cylinder 20 Allocation class 5 $ $ sh dev/full dkd200: Disk $5$DKD200: (IDEFIX), device type COMPAQ BB00911CA0, is online, file- oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled. Error count 0 Operations completed 66669 Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W Reference count 0 Default buffer size 512 Total blocks 17773524 Sectors per track 168 Total cylinders 5290 Tracks per cylinder 20 Allocation class 5 $ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- $ mount /system dsa2: /shadow=($5$dkd100:) test %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST mounted on _DSA2: %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMSUCC, _$5$DKD100: (IDEFIX) is now a valid member of the shadow set $ $ mount /system dsa2: /shadow=($5$dkd100:,$5$dkd200:) test %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST mounted on _DSA2: %MOUNT-I-ISAMBR, _$5$DKD100: (IDEFIX) is a member of the shadow set %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMCOPY, _$5$DKD200: (IDEFIX) added to the shadow set with a copy operation $ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- $ sh dev dsa2 Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt DSA2: Mounted 0 TEST 8379760 1 1 $5$DKD100: (IDEFIX) ShadowSetMember 1 (member of DSA2:) $5$DKD200: (IDEFIX) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA2:) $ $ sh dev /full dsa2 Disk DSA2:, device type Generic SCSI disk, is online, mounted, file-oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device supports bitmaps (no bitmaps active). Error count 0 Operations completed 9464 Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W Reference count 1 Default buffer size 512 Total blocks 8380080 Sectors per track 113 Total cylinders 3708 Tracks per cylinder 20 Logical Volume Size 8380080 Expansion Size Limit 9371648 Volume label "TEST" Relative volume number 0 Cluster size 16 Transaction count 1 Free blocks 8379760 Maximum files allowed 246472 Extend quantity 5 Mount count 1 Mount status System Cache name "_DSA0:XQPCACHE" Extent cache size 64 Maximum blocks in extent cache 837976 File ID cache size 64 Blocks in extent cache 0 Quota cache size 0 Maximum buffers in FCP cache 1204 Volume owner UIC [SYSTEM] Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD Volume Status: ODS-2, subject to mount verification, file high-water marking, write-back caching enabled. Disk $5$DKD100:, device type DEC RZ1CB-CS, is online, member of shadow set DSA2:, error logging is enabled. Error count 1 Shadow member operation count 76187 Allocation class 5 Disk $5$DKD200:, device type COMPAQ BB00911CA0, is online, member of shadow set DSA2:, error logging is enabled. Error count 0 Shadow member operation count 76437 Allocation class 5 Volume Status: volume is being added to the shadow set by a full copy operation. $ $ dir/size=all dsa2:[000000]bitmap.sys Directory DSA2:[000000] BITMAP.SYS;1 129/144 Total of 1 file, 129/144 blocks. $ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- $ dism $5$dkd100: $ sh dev dsa2 Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt DSA2: Mounted 0 TEST 8379760 1 1 $5$DKD200: (IDEFIX) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA2:) $ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- $ set volume/size dsa2: $ sh dev dsa2 Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt DSA2: Mounted 0 TEST 9371328 1 1 $5$DKD200: (IDEFIX) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA2:) $ $ sh dev/full dsa2 Disk DSA2:, device type Generic SCSI disk, is online, mounted, file-oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device supports bitmaps (no bitmaps active). Error count 0 Operations completed 66063 Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W Reference count 1 Default buffer size 512 Total blocks 17773524 Sectors per track 168 Total cylinders 5290 Tracks per cylinder 20 Logical Volume Size 9371648 Expansion Size Limit 9371648 Volume label "TEST" Relative volume number 0 Cluster size 16 Transaction count 1 Free blocks 9371328 Maximum files allowed 246472 Extend quantity 5 Mount count 1 Mount status System Cache name "_DSA0:XQPCACHE" Extent cache size 64 Maximum blocks in extent cache 937132 File ID cache size 64 Blocks in extent cache 837968 Quota cache size 0 Maximum buffers in FCP cache 1204 Volume owner UIC [SYSTEM] Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD Volume Status: ODS-2, subject to mount verification, file high-water marking, write-back caching enabled. Disk $5$DKD200:, device type COMPAQ BB00911CA0, is online, member of shadow set DSA2:, error logging is enabled. Error count 0 Shadow member operation count 133049 Allocation class 5 $ $ dir/size=all dsa2:[000000]bitmap.sys Directory DSA2:[000000] BITMAP.SYS;1 144/144 Total of 1 file, 144/144 blocks. $ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- The result on OpenVMS 7.3-2 and 8.3 (ALPHA) is the same. Now, what i do wrong? Or, didn't i understand the technology? What must i do to get the full volume size 17773524? Could anywhere help me? Thank you very very much! Klaus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:19:04 +0100 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: Klaus-D. Bohn wrote: > Hello all together, > > I have an existing problem with a shadow disk. I would like to increase the > shadow size without to dismount all the shadow members. > [...snip...] > The result on OpenVMS 7.3-2 and 8.3 (ALPHA) is the same. > > Now, what i do wrong? Or, didn't i understand the technology? > What must i do to get the full volume size 17773524? > > Could anywhere help me? $ help init /limit ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:48:46 +0200 From: "Klaus-D. Bohn" Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: <4684ffae$0$24512$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> "R.A.Omond" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:f62tbq$f0h$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > Klaus-D. Bohn wrote: > > Hello all together, > > > > I have an existing problem with a shadow disk. I would like to increase the > > shadow size without to dismount all the shadow members. > > [...snip...] > > The result on OpenVMS 7.3-2 and 8.3 (ALPHA) is the same. > > > > Now, what i do wrong? Or, didn't i understand the technology? > > What must i do to get the full volume size 17773524? > > > > Could anywhere help me? > > $ help init /limit Sorry, that is a little bit to easy ;-). I have an existing old shadow set which i have to increase with a bigger disk. That is the starting point. By the customer, i can't make a dismount of all the shadow member. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:16:50 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: <1183123010.339056.224240@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 29, 8:48 am, "Klaus-D. Bohn" wrote: > "R.A.Omond" schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:f62tbq$f0h$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > > > Klaus-D. Bohn wrote: > > > Hello all together, > > > > I have an existing problem with a shadow disk. I would like to increase > the > > > shadow size without to dismount all the shadow members. > > > [...snip...] > > > The result on OpenVMS 7.3-2 and 8.3 (ALPHA) is the same. > > > > Now, what i do wrong? Or, didn't i understand the technology? > > > What must i do to get the full volume size 17773524? > > > > Could anywhere help me? > > > $ help init /limit > > Sorry, that is a little bit to easy ;-). > I have an existing old shadow set which i have to increase with a bigger > disk. That is the starting point. > > By the customer, i can't make a dismount of all the shadow member. Robert F. Gezelter has a PDF file of a presentation that explains how to do this without causing a disruption to the users. You can find it on his web site. The direct link is http://www.rlgsc.com/hptechnologyforum/2005/1146.html If you look in the ITRC OpenVMS forum ( http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=288 ) and search on "Dynamic Volume Expansion" you will find several threads which may help you with the initialize /limit command. You can also search this group for the same thing and find a number of threads. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:19:21 -0000 From: IanMiller Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: <1183123161.736549.69050@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Expansion Size Limit 9371648 You have to mount the disk privately to do the SET VOLUME/LIMIT so this limit can be raised. After this you can expand the volume to the limit without dismounting the shadow set ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:25:07 +0200 From: "Klaus-D. Bohn" Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: <46850833$0$24566$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1183123010.339056.224240@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 29, 8:48 am, "Klaus-D. Bohn" wrote: > > "R.A.Omond" schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:f62tbq$f0h$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > > > > > Klaus-D. Bohn wrote: > > > > Hello all together, > > > > > > I have an existing problem with a shadow disk. I would like to increase > > the > > > > shadow size without to dismount all the shadow members. > > > > [...snip...] > > > > The result on OpenVMS 7.3-2 and 8.3 (ALPHA) is the same. > > > > > > Now, what i do wrong? Or, didn't i understand the technology? > > > > What must i do to get the full volume size 17773524? > > > > > > Could anywhere help me? > > > > > $ help init /limit > > > > Sorry, that is a little bit to easy ;-). > > I have an existing old shadow set which i have to increase with a bigger > > disk. That is the starting point. > > > > By the customer, i can't make a dismount of all the shadow member. > > > Robert F. Gezelter has a PDF file of a presentation that explains how > to do this without causing a disruption to the users. You can find it > on his web site. The direct link is http://www.rlgsc.com/hptechnologyforum/2005/1146.html > > If you look in the ITRC OpenVMS forum ( > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=288 ) > and search on "Dynamic Volume Expansion" you will find several threads > which may help you with the initialize /limit command. > > You can also search this group for the same thing and find a number of > threads. > > John H. Reinhardt > > Yes, i have read the PDF from Gezelter. But that is not the same. That's my problem. I have an existing shadow set by a customer. He will expand this shadow set. But it is not going. So, i am testing this on my test server. And i get the same result. But why? I have tested with the limit command, but i get the same result (9371648). I didn't get the full size 17773524. I know, i do anything wrong, but what? Klaus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:42:35 +0200 From: "Klaus-D. Bohn" Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: <46850c4b$0$24505$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> "IanMiller" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1183123161.736549.69050@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > Expansion Size Limit 9371648 > > You have to mount the disk privately to do the SET VOLUME/LIMIT so > this limit can be raised. > After this you can expand the volume to the limit without dismounting > the shadow set > I will test that again at the weekend. But i think that is not possible. We will see. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:28:55 -0700 From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: <1183130935.739049.113320@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Klaus, you cannot go beyond the Expansion Size Limit without dismounting the 'VOLUME', temporarily mounting it privately and using the SET VOLUME/ LIMIT command. The 'VOLUME' is the shadowset, not any individual member. If an existing shadowset has not been prepared for future expansion (up to 1 TB is possible), you can NOT do this without temporarily dismounting the shadowset clusterwide. There is no need for testing this... Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:30:16 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: Klaus-D. Bohn wrote: > Yes, i have read the PDF from Gezelter. But that is not the same. That's my > problem. > I have an existing shadow set by a customer. He will expand this shadow set. > But it is not going. > So, i am testing this on my test server. And i get the same result. But why? > I have tested with the limit command, but i get the same result (9371648). I > didn't get the full size 17773524. > > I know, i do anything wrong, but what? "Not going"? Please consider posting the command(s) and sequence(s) attempted, and any errors (if any) that were displayed, and what OpenVMS version is involved with the sequences. -- I see both V7.3-2 and V8.3 listed in the thread. There are ECO kits for V7.3-2 that are relevant to dynamic volume expansion (DVE). There are mandatory ECOs for most (all?) OpenVMS releases. In an earlier posting, you had indicated you could not dismount the shadowset. If that's the case and you can't dismount the (production) disk, well, um, err, forget it. At least for now. Pending the next scheduled downtime, or scheduled system reboot. You must dismount the shadowset -- all of it -- in order to enable DVE. DVE can only be enabled when the target volume is mounted privately. Here's another write-up on this topic: http://64.223.189.234/node/207 There are a couple of wrinkles here, including whether this is a system disk -- if so, there's a bug in the DVE-related processing that makes it difficult to enable DVE on a system disk when using V7.3-2 distribution CD; details at the above web page -- it's fixed by an ECO kit, but you don't have that ECO on your distro CD unless you've rebuilt the CD yourself. There's also a bug in the BACKUP /IMAGE restoration, which itself has been fixed by ECO. In either case, a version past V7.3-2 is a better choice for operational reasons, even if the base system is running V7.3-2. As is Mr. Gezelter, HoffmanLabs is also available to provide assistance with your customer situation here, and both of our organizations have experience in the configuration and management of OpenVMS, including of DVE. Hoff -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:57:31 -0500 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Message-ID: In article <1182887137.550244.102170@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, ja wrote: > How many people would be interested in running gSOAP on OpenVMS, Alpha > or Integrity? > Of those, how many would want to: > > 1. use OpenVMS as a Web Service client from any native language > 2. use OpenVMS as a Web Service server from any native language > 3. both of the above > > gSOAP is an Open Source initiative. We have ported it to OpenVMS 8.3 > on Alpha and Integrity as a midnight hack (nothing better to do...). Thanks for the midnight hack; now get some sleep ;-). I'd be primarily interested in 2. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:24:18 -0000 From: ja Subject: Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Message-ID: <1183127058.987949.45990@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 27, 11:13 pm, Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > > "ja" wrote in message > >news:1182887137.550244.102170@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > >> How many people would be interested in running gSOAP on OpenVMS, Alpha > >> or Integrity? > >> Of those, how many would want to: > > >> 1. use OpenVMS as a Web Service client from any native language > >> 2. use OpenVMS as a Web Service server from any native language > >> 3. both of the above > > > this sounds intriguing. I could certanly use 3. Do this now by hand in cobol > > and with perl. This sounds very promissing. > > Same here. I currently do SOAP client using perl on VMS (Alpha and > soon to be Itanium). I would be very interested in being able > to do this directly from a BASIC program. > > I'm not familiar with the features of gSOAP, does it give > you a nice simple way to call a web service by parsing the WSDL? gSOAP is a full-blown implementation of SOAP and WSDL. So, yes, it does provide a WSDL describing the routine you have wrapped and are exposing to clients. The same is true in reverse, i.e., it will process the WSDL from any source to which you have access. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 03:03:58 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: How to structure installation of TCPIP related products Message-ID: Say I have an utility that runs as a server/deamon to receive TCP/UDP calls. With TCPIP Services before 5.3, I have to manually start the process and it declares itself listener to port xxx. With 5.3 and later, I can define the service with TCPIP> SET SERVICE, including the username, startup file and log file etc. And when the stack is brought up and/or first incoming calls comes in, the process is started and processes the data. And I have absolutely no idea how it works with multinet or the other stacks. Any hints on how to structure the installation procedure such that it is clean and easy for the system manager no matter what stack he has ? Or is the only way to just provide files and dcocumentation and explain that he can start the process manually in systartup after tcpip, or define the srevice if he is at tcpip cservices 5.3 or above etc etc ? ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jun 2007 07:59:53 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: How to structure installation of TCPIP related products Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > Say I have an utility that runs as a server/deamon to receive TCP/UDP calls. > > With TCPIP Services before 5.3, I have to manually start the process and > it declares itself listener to port xxx. > > With 5.3 and later, I can define the service with TCPIP> SET SERVICE, > including the username, startup file and log file etc. And when the > stack is brought up and/or first incoming calls comes in, the process is > started and processes the data. > > And I have absolutely no idea how it works with multinet or the other > stacks. > > Any hints on how to structure the installation procedure such that it is > clean and easy for the system manager no matter what stack he has ? I don't know if there's any cleaner approach other than providing a top level installation script and lower levels that depend on and completly implement each stack's installation needs. But I can confirm that Multinet will allow you to define your server as a known service on a known port and it will start the server process when an incoming connection needs it (no need to tie up process slots with unused services). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:54:15 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: How to structure installation of TCPIP related products Message-ID: <46850F07.9070400@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Say I have an utility that runs as a server/deamon to receive TCP/UDP > calls. > > With TCPIP Services before 5.3, I have to manually start the process and > it declares itself listener to port xxx. > > With 5.3 and later, I can define the service with TCPIP> SET SERVICE, > including the username, startup file and log file etc. And when the > stack is brought up and/or first incoming calls comes in, the process is > started and processes the data. > > And I have absolutely no idea how it works with multinet or the other > stacks. > > Any hints on how to structure the installation procedure such that it is > clean and easy for the system manager no matter what stack he has ? > > Or is the only way to just provide files and dcocumentation and explain > that he can start the process manually in systartup after tcpip, or > define the srevice if he is at tcpip cservices 5.3 or above etc etc ? If you are feeling really brave and energetic, you can learn how to identify each possible TCP/IP stack and write a command procedure that does so and then does the proper installation for your utility. The last time I looked, there were two or three vendors other than HP. You will have to decide the importance of supporting each different TCP/IP stack and then proceed accordingly. IMHO it's hardly worth the effort unless you expect to be paid for it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:22:41 GMT From: "John Vottero" Subject: Re: How to structure installation of TCPIP related products Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:d06c6$4684af01$cef8887a$29453@TEKSAVVY.COM... > Say I have an utility that runs as a server/deamon to receive TCP/UDP > calls. > > With TCPIP Services before 5.3, I have to manually start the process and > it declares itself listener to port xxx. > > With 5.3 and later, I can define the service with TCPIP> SET SERVICE, > including the username, startup file and log file etc. And when the stack > is brought up and/or first incoming calls comes in, the process is started > and processes the data. You can create services like this way earlier than V5.3. > > And I have absolutely no idea how it works with multinet or the other > stacks. > > Any hints on how to structure the installation procedure such that it is > clean and easy for the system manager no matter what stack he has ? Here's what we use to define the JAMS service. It works with UCX, TCPIP, MultiNet and TCPWare. $! $! Define the JAMS Server service $! $ IF (P1 .NES. "") $ THEN $ TCPIP_PRODUCT = P1 $ TCPIPCMD = P1 $ GOTO DEFINE_'TCPIP_PRODUCT' $ ENDIF $! $! Figure out which TCP/IP Product is being used $! $ FOUND_COUNT = 0 $! $ IF (F$SEARCH("SYS$STARTUP:UCX$STARTUP.COM") .NES. "") $ THEN $ FOUND_COUNT = 1 $ TCPIPCMD := UCX $ TCPIP_PRODUCT = "UCX" $ ENDIF $! $ IF (F$SEARCH("SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$STARTUP.COM") .NES. "") $ THEN $ FOUND_COUNT = 1 $ TCPIPCMD := TCPIP $ TCPIP_PRODUCT = "TCPIP" $ ENDIF $! $ IF (F$SEARCH("MULTINET:START_MULTINET.COM") .NES. "") $ THEN $ FOUND_COUNT = FOUND_COUNT + 1 $ TCPIP_PRODUCT = "MULTINET" $ ENDIF $! $ IF (F$SEARCH("TCPWARE:TCPWARE_LOGICALS.COM") .NES. "") $ THEN $ FOUND_COUNT = FOUND_COUNT + 1 $ TCPIP_PRODUCT = "TCPWARE" $ ENDIF $! $! Make sure we found one, and only one. $! $ IF (FOUND_COUNT .EQ. 0) $ THEN $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "You do not have a supported TCP/IP product installed." $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ EXIT $ ENDIF $! $ IF (FOUND_COUNT .GT. 1) $ THEN $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "You have more than one supported TCP/IP product installed." $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "You must manually configure the JAMS Service" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ EXIT $ ENDIF $! $! Go do it $ GOTO DEFINE_'TCPIP_PRODUCT' $! $! Compaq TCP/IP Services (AKA UCX) $! $DEFINE_TCPIP: $DEFINE_UCX: $! $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Defining TCP/IP service" $ TCPIPCMD SET SERVICE - /FILE=JAMS_COM:JAMS_SERVER_TCPIP.COM - /PORT=773 - /PROCESS_NAME=JAMS_SRV - /USER_NAME=SYSTEM - /FLAGS=(LISTEN, MULTITHREAD) - /LOG_OPTIONS=ALL - /LIMIT=10 - JAMS $! $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "You must add this command:" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT " $ ''TCPIPCMD' ENABLE SERVICE JAMS" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "to SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ EXIT $! $! $! Process Multinet $! $DEFINE_MULTINET: $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Defining Multinet service" $ MULTINET CONFIGURE/SERVER ADD JAMS TCP 773 JAMS_COM:JAMS_SERVER_TCPIP.COM SET FLAG UCX_SERVER SET USERNAME SYSTEM SAVE RESTART $ EXIT $! $! $! Process TCPWare $! $DEFINE_TCPWARE: $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Defining TCPware service" $ RUN TCPWARE:NETCU.EXE ADD SERVICE 773 BG_TCP/USERNAME=SYSTEM/INPUT=JAMS_COM:JAMS_SERVER_TCPIP.COM EXIT $ EXIT $! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:19:39 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: IP Lease Message-ID: This is somewhat OT. From home I use PuTTY SSH on an XP laptop through a wireless router attached to Comcast cable to access the VMS cluster. If I go to another window for a while and return to the VMS session the connection gets closed, so I tried opening another window and ran a script which just loops endlessly $ start: $ sho time $ wait 00:01 $ goto start but it only keeps that window alive, so I guess that the two sessions have different IPs. Don't suppose there is any way of doing this? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:31:44 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: IP Lease Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:19:39 -0700, Tom Linden wrote: > This is somewhat OT. > > From home I use PuTTY SSH on an XP laptop through a wireless router > attached to > Comcast cable to access the VMS cluster. If I go to another window for > a while > and return to the VMS session the connection gets closed, so I tried > opening > another window and ran a script which just loops endlessly > $ start: > $ sho time > $ wait 00:01 > $ goto start > > but it only keeps that window alive, so I guess that the two sessions > have > different IPs. Don't suppose there is any way of doing this? BTW, If I submit as batch, how do I get the output to my terminal? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:46:12 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: IP Lease Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > This is somewhat OT. > > From home I use PuTTY SSH on an XP laptop through a wireless router > attached to > Comcast cable to access the VMS cluster. If I go to another window for > a while > and return to the VMS session the connection gets closed, so I tried > opening > another window and ran a script which just loops endlessly > $ start: > $ sho time > $ wait 00:01 > $ goto start > > but it only keeps that window alive, so I guess that the two sessions have > different IPs. Don't suppose there is any way of doing this? Not much to go on here, but this looks more like a keepalive setting somewhere, or some sort of a terminal or session timeout with a firewall or with your OpenVMS cluster. (And some OpenVMS boxes around do still run terminal timeout programs; idle-process killers, etc.) Sessions do not typically have IP addresses. Your cable modem likely has an IP address, and probably one assigned by DHCP from your ISP here assuming you do not have static address(es) assigned by your ISP. Your laptop likely also has an IP address -- probably a private Class C address assigned from your cable model, or from your firewall, via DHCP. The target OpenVMS box also likely has a static address. (Yes, you can use dynamic DNS...) An ISP is unlikely to overtly blow off sessions, but it's certainly feasible for a host system or a firewall knock them off. (That written, there are reports and examples of ISPs implementing all manner of bizarre things.) IP leases are also automatically renewed, and any self-respecting and functional DHCP client will know how and when to renew an IP lease. On Microsoft Windows, ipconfig/all will display the IP address and the lease and other details, IIRC. Check whatever logs you have access to on your firewall, and on the target system and its firewall. Do look to establish a VPN over the connection. Locally, I tunnel everything over Mac OS X SSH (http://64.223.189.234/node/134), when I'm up to this sort of connectivity. Various ssh clients have an option for TCPKeepAlive, for instance. Donno about PuTTY. There are also firewalls that can support VPNs, basically bridging your laptop or potentially your local network into the target network. You will also want to look at trying something other than Windows itsef, as Windows has been known to blow off idle connections all by itself. We chased one example with FTP sessions getting nuked by a Windows timer some time ago. Try the connection with a Linux or Mac OS X or OpenVMS box as the client, for instance. Also see http://64.223.189.234/node/275 for an introduction to operating OpenVMS within IP networks and particularly with firewalls. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 02:57:08 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <42a60$4684ad68$cef8887a$29114@TEKSAVVY.COM> Paul Raulerson wrote: > The only answer to this is that anyone who believes it *is* only half > competent. It is very VERY important to keep patches up to date on the > Window server(s). The vast majority of the harmful and expensive virii, > Trojans, and worms that get in get in via the server. E-Mail, SQL Server, > IIS, etc. And yes, it is fact, for *whatever* reason, that the VAST majority > of Windows Server time is spent putting in patches and fixes and working > HooDoo on the Registry. Until you can convince your bosses of this and we start seeing HP branded ads that say exactly this and tell customers to avoid windows and choose a better OS, then you can't expect to really convince us. And even if I beleive you, because your employer doesn't beleive it, it is quite hard for a lowly consultant to try to convicne a potential customer to stay away from Windows because of the patch hell. If we are to help VMS, we need your boss to provide us with public ammunition that our potential customers will see (and hence our statement then have more credibility). ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jun 2007 12:53:21 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <5ekdm1F38esk5U1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5M6dncYdppEfqRnbnZ2dnUVZ_oSnnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd writes: >> >> The answer, which anyone even half-competent in this area already knows, >> is that most of the security patches *do not apply to your server >> environment and hence can be applied at leisure or in many cases not at >> all*: they apply to desktop-like environments that don't have proper >> account controls in place to contain application-level threats, have >> things like ActiveX and other browser scripting enabled, and/or run >> other popular layered software that (at least in an unsecured >> environment) opens paths up to the insecure code. > > If my server had only a command line interface so I could be sure > that no-one would use its desktop to run a browser or other popular > software likely to open up paths, I'd agree with you. But I can't > be sure that everyone who has access to other server room is > intimately aware of every single available attack aginst a Windows > system. And that is a management problem and not a Windows problem. Management should mandate who can do what on any machine and what is not to be done on a server. "Surfing the web" should be at the top of the list. On top of which, no one but an administrator should even have access to the servers and if your admins are that unaware, well, that isn't really a Windows problem either, is it? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:57:20 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W280803366_16823_1183129040 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_vm_0016_W280803366_16823_1183129040" ----=_vm_0016_W280803366_16823_1183129040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Uh- what in the world makes you think that I have not done that already? = Besides, I am not trying to convince you, the facts speak for themselves.= You do have to steel yourself to look at facts objectively though. Other= wise you can bend the facts to support any predjuice you already have. An= d that does work both ways. But to address your points; I looked at Windows here six years ago, and i= n conjucntion with my VP and the CEO, came up with a plan to get it under= control. We do not have Windows standalone machines scattered about all = over the enterprise. All the workstations are either customized Linux loa= ds or else running thin client software like 2X. All of the Windows deskt= ops, applications, and management takes place in or is served up from the= data center here in Austin, about 30 feet away from my office in fact. W= e use Citrix to do that, for reasons of functionality. The result? (1) The users get much better reliability from Windows than t= hey ever saw before. (2) We can add new users or remove users rapidly and= in a standardized manner - especially in terms of what applications they= can use or not use. (3) Our cost per seat is controllable. (4) We do not= have high maintenance costs for PC workstations. It is absolutely amazin= g how reliable x86 hardware can be if the users cannot muck around with t= he software on it (5) Applications requriing high processor capacity are = easily supported, and we can plan and control hardware costs (6) Backup a= nd disaster recovery is managable (7)We have to employ only one full time= Windows person. (8)Using VMWare we can actually use most of the processo= r and memory capacity on the servers. I could continue in that line for a while. We also support Mainframe, iSeries, BladeCenter, and soon perhaps, some H= P Itaniums, as well a wide variety of software including but not limited = to 64Bit WIndows 2003 Server, Intel Linux, PowerPC Linux, z/Linux, z/VM, = i5OS, Solaris, Cisco local and wide area networks, IP telephony, WangOS, = and more. That's before you get to the applications, which include custom= written programs that run our business, printing, and so forth, MS Offic= e for hundreds of users (all applications), terminal emulation software, = custom Windows applications, RPG Applications on the iSeries, C programs = on the Linux platforms, and more. Sure - we could say that Windows can handle all that, and move to Windows= Servers, and buy off on the MS line. We could hire 10 to 20 more people = to manage the Windows machines and applications, and all that. We would, = quite simply, be fools to do that. And yes, at this point, we are looking for a Windows replacement because = we are fed up with paying MS hundreds of thousands of dollars every few y= ears for lousy support, buggy operating systems, and really really bad ut= ilization of available hardware. Without the use of VMWare (which is base= d pon RedHat Linux for those of you who don't know it...) we would have t= o have 3x the number of Windows servers we use now, jus tto support the s= ame load and functionality. And yes, top level management here listens to me, and in general approves= my solutions. (Then they ask me why they were not implemented two weeks = ago. ) -Paul >Until you can convince your bosses of this and we start seeing HP >branded ads that say exactly this and tell customers to avoid windows >and choose a better OS, then you can't expect to really convince us. ----=_vm_0016_W280803366_16823_1183129040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Uh- what in the world makes you th= ink that I have not done that already? Besides, I am not trying to convin= ce you, the facts speak for themselves. You do have to steel you= rself to look at facts objectively though. Otherwise you can bend the fac= ts to support any predjuice you already have. And that does work both way= s.

But to address your points; I looked at = Windows here six years ago, and in conjucntion with my VP and the CEO, ca= me up with a plan to get it under control. We do not have Window= s standalone machines scattered about all over the enterprise. All the wo= rkstations are either customized Linux loads or else running thin client = software like 2X. All of the Windows desktops, applications, and manageme= nt takes place in or is served up from the data center here in Austi= n, about 30 feet away from my office in fact.  We use Citrix to do t= hat, for reasons of functionality.

The result?  (1) The users get much= better reliability from Windows than they ever saw before. (2) We can ad= d new users or remove users rapidly and in a standardized manner= - especially in terms of what applications they can use or not use. (3) = Our cost per seat is controllable. (4) We do not have high maintenance co= sts for PC workstations. It is absolutely amazing how reliable x= 86 hardware can be if the users cannot muck around with the software on i= t (5) Applications requriing high processor capacity are easily supported= , and we can plan and control hardware costs (6) Backup and disaster reco= very is managable (7)We have to employ only one full time Windows person.= (8)Using VMWare we can actually use most of the processor and memory cap= acity on the servers.

I could continue in that line for a whil= e.

We also support Mainframe, iSeries, Blad= eCenter, and soon perhaps, some HP Itaniums, as well a wide variety of so= ftware including but not limited to 64Bit WIndows 2003 Server, Intel Linu= x, PowerPC Linux, z/Linux, z/VM, i5OS, Solaris, Cisco local and wide area= networks, IP telephony, WangOS, and more. That's before you get to the a= pplications, which include custom written programs that run our business,= printing, and so forth, MS Office for hundreds of users (all application= s), terminal emulation software, custom Windows applications, RPG Applica= tions on the iSeries, C programs on the Linux platforms, and more.

Sure - we could say that Windows can han= dle all that, and move to Windows Servers, and buy off on the MS line. We= could hire 10 to 20 more people to manage the Windows machines and appli= cations, and all that. We would, quite simply, be fools to do that.

And yes, at this point, we are looking f= or a Windows replacement because we are fed up with paying MS hundreds of= thousands of dollars every few years for lousy support, buggy operating = systems, and really really bad utilization of available hardware. Without= the use of VMWare (which is based pon RedHat Linux for those of you who = don't know it...) we would have to have 3x the number of Windows ser= vers we use now, jus tto support the same load and functionality.<= /P>

And yes, top level management here liste= ns to me, and in general approves my solutions. (Then they ask me why the= y were not implemented two weeks ago. <grin> )

-Paul 

>Until you can convince your bosses o= f this and we start seeing HP
>branded ads that say exactly this a= nd tell customers to avoid windows
>and choose a better OS, then y= ou can't expect to really convince us.

----=_vm_0016_W280803366_16823_1183129040-- ----=_vm_0011_W280803366_16823_1183129040 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment From: "JF Mezei" To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Message-ID: <42a60$4684ad68$cef8887a$29114@TEKSAVVY.COM> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:57:00 +0000 Received: (qmail 15227 invoked by uid 78); 29 Jun 2007 07:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns-mr32.netsolmail.com) (10.49.16.190) by 0 with SMTP; 29 Jun 2007 07:11:10 -0000 Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM (mvb.saic.com [198.151.12.104]) by ns-mr32.netsolmail.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l5T7B90N024554 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2007 03:11:09 -0400 Organization: Indexed User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; OpenVMS AlphaServer_DS10L_466_MHz; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20060506 X-Accept-Language: en, fr-ca X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms In-Reply-To: <004f01c7b9e1$024dc5e0$06e951a0$@com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com Lines: 21 X-Trace: 42a604684ad686b5d2ddf29114 X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Raulerson wrote: > The only answer to this is that anyone who believes it *is* only half > competent. It is very VERY important to keep patches up to date on the > Window server(s). The vast majority of the harmful and expensive virii, > Trojans, and worms that get in get in via the server. E-Mail, SQL Server, > IIS, etc. And yes, it is fact, for *whatever* reason, that the VAST majority > of Windows Server time is spent putting in patches and fixes and working > HooDoo on the Registry. Until you can convince your bosses of this and we start seeing HP branded ads that say exactly this and tell customers to avoid windows and choose a better OS, then you can't expect to really convince us. And even if I beleive you, because your employer doesn't beleive it, it is quite hard for a lowly consultant to try to convicne a potential customer to stay away from Windows because of the patch hell. If we are to help VMS, we need your boss to provide us with public ammunition that our potential customers will see (and hence our statement then have more credibility). ----=_vm_0011_W280803366_16823_1183129040-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:37:49 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Question on FCS vs RMS on PDP11 RSX Message-ID: <1N1hi.3125$ZA.1427@newsb.telia.net> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > >> However, I'm thinking, in regards to your question, that the Process >> Sotware stack, since it uses RMS, should be able to handle FCS created files >> just fine. > > Agreed. > > Cheers, > Hein. But still, you'd need an RSX system with RSX support. If that's not there, the Process software can't run RMS QIO's, I guess. Doesn't the docs from Process says anything about *needing* RMS support in RSX ? (Maybe "supports" implies "needs"...) Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:40:12 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Question on FCS vs RMS on PDP11 RSX Message-ID: Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >> >>> However, I'm thinking, in regards to your question, that the Process >>> Sotware stack, since it uses RMS, should be able to handle FCS >>> created files >>> just fine. >> >> Agreed. >> >> Cheers, >> Hein. > > But still, you'd need an RSX system with RSX support. > If that's not there, the Process software can't run > RMS QIO's, I guess. Doesn't the docs from Process > says anything about *needing* RMS support in RSX ? > (Maybe "supports" implies "needs"...) > > Jan-Erik. Well, should have been "RSX system with RMS support"... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 02:27:30 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Question on FCS vs RMS on PDP11 RSX Message-ID: <1183109250.321412.45100@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Jun 28, 9:07 pm, Jeff Cameron wrote: > I would like some clarification on FCS (File Control Services) and RMS > (Record Management System) in RSX 11M+ for the PDP-11. > > I have been told by one of the original MACRO-11 developers for our PDP-11 > system that our file system on the RSX systems only supports FCS files and > not RMS files. While I fully understand that support for RMS files is a > Sysgen option, I don't believe that the files are either in FCS format or > RMS format. I had always thought that FCS was a set of basic file control > services for manipulating, reading and writing files in RSX, and NOT a file > format. Further more, I was under the impression that RMS record management > was layered on top of FCS. > > Our old Macro developer was quite vehement that the format of the two types > of files are very different, specifically the file headers. This seemed very > wrong to me since the format of file headers are a Files-11 volume > attribute. > > Now this macro developer is an older man who is not to familiar with newer > technologies, who often replies with "It is not true just because you want > it to be true." for things I already know to be true. For example we had > quite an argument concerning file headers on a Files-11 disk (even ODS1 for > RSX); It was my position that the actual header information was stored in > the volume index file, while he insisted that it was actually a reserved > block at the beginning of the physical file. > > So, if any of you have any information concerning the FCS/RMS issue, if you > could site some resource, it would be extremely valuable. > > The point of contention is that I am considering using the Process Software > TCP Stack, TCPWare. The TCPWare SPD says it supports RMS files, but says > nothing about FCS, and our developer says it will not work because our files > are all FCS format. I need irrefutable evidence that it will work, since he > is the roadblock to my proceeding with this plan. > > Jeff Cameron Jeff, First, a note on my background. I have worked with most versions of the RSX-11 family since 1976 (e.g., RSX-11M, RSX-11M-PLUS, RSX-11S, RSX-11D, P/OS, and Micro/RSX). At one point, I was actually a field- test site for four of the products simultaneously. All of the following details are subject to verification from the documentation, it has been a while since I checked it in detail. FCS provides a variety of services for the management of simple sequential files. Most notably, it did not support Indexed files, this support was provided by an add-on kit referred to as RMS-11K (RMS-11 Keyed). There was a more basic version of RMS, RMS-11, that did not support keyed files, as I recall. I would have to check my archived documentation as to whether simple relative files (supported by FORTRAN) were operable using FCS. The key obstacle to using RMS was address space and memory size. RMS was substantially larger than FCS, and until the advent of 22-bit addressing, space was an overwhelming obstacle. When P/OS required the use of RMS, there were many who had address space problems. Without reviewing the Process Software specification, I would interpret the phrase "supports RMS files" as meaning exactly that, it supports the transfer of all RMS file types. This DOES NOT mean that it cannot transfer FCS files. In any event, FCS and RMS were merely libraries for accessing files. The format of the most common files on the system are governed by the FILES-11 specification, and are the same. WADR, your colleague appears to be mis-informed in some areas. If I can be of assistance, please feel free to contact me. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:34:26 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W2741127818_21200_1183127666 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_vm_0016_W2741127818_21200_1183127666" ----=_vm_0016_W2741127818_21200_1183127666 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The interesting part if the new "immigration" bill was just defeated, and= the "Software Industry" is very "upset" about it. They claim there will = be a horrific shortage of trained and talented workers, and that we will = loose the international competition for those workers. Pure undiluted bull-hockey. The truth is we have more talent here in the = U.S. than anywhwere else in the world, period. Virtual every major comput= er innovation, hardware and software has came from here. The buggers just want to pay less for talent than they know people here a= re worth. Plain and simple, idiotic management techniques by business sch= ool grads who are bound and determined they are superior to engineer type= s. Reality is going to hit them pretty hard sooner or later. :) Point is, I suggest that if you agree with me, you should write your cong= ress critter and applaud this defeat. Encourage them to think straight! -Paul ----=_vm_0016_W2741127818_21200_1183127666 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The interesting part if the new "immigration" bill was just defe= ated, and the "Software Industry" is very "upset" about it. They claim th= ere will be a horrific shortage of trained and talented workers, and that= we will loose the international competition for those workers.

Pure undiluted bull-hockey. The truth is we have more talent here in t= he U.S. than anywhwere else in the world, period. Virtual every major com= puter innovation, hardware and software has came from here.

The buggers just want to pay less for talent than they know people her= e are worth. Plain and simple, idiotic management techniques by business = school grads who are bound and determined they are superior to engineer t= ypes. Reality is going to hit them pretty hard sooner or later. :)

Point is, I suggest that if you agree with me, you should write your c= ongress critter and applaud this defeat. Encourage them to think straight= !

-Paul

----=_vm_0016_W2741127818_21200_1183127666-- ----=_vm_0011_W2741127818_21200_1183127666 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment From: "Ray" To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 04:48:00 +0000 Received: (qmail 16596 invoked by uid 78); 29 Jun 2007 04:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns-mr8.netsolmail.com) (10.49.16.167) by 0 with SMTP; 29 Jun 2007 04:56:05 -0000 Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM (mvb.saic.com [198.151.12.104]) by ns-mr8.netsolmail.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l5T4u4Ex005074 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:56:05 -0400 X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Lines: 14 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 X-Trace: noffecneefnkbhgfbaignffdjoaiejcllaohagfdnghkccgefbckfpnfjikfcbfmifjbldgcolfmchbbnbdnjinhgnpikmaififgodpapchkccbfnepajgkpbjekpjblenfnojecgjgcfcij NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:48:12 MST X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET Subject: Re: Tech support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > But how do you retain employees for 10 years on support jobs ? > BY PAYING THEM ENOUGH MONEY TO KEEP THEM. That that defeats the whole > purpose of outsourcing to low wage countries. A person in India with 2 or more years on the same job is unheard of. They gain a little experience, and move to the next job because they can get more pay. How can you fault them if HP is apparently not willing to pay for experience? Companies are just beginning to understand that one embarrassing question to ask their potential outsourcer is their employee turnover rate. (And then put in penalty clauses.) ----=_vm_0011_W2741127818_21200_1183127666-- ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jun 2007 14:47:00 GMT From: Thierry Dussuet Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: Hi On 2007-06-29, Paul Raulerson wrote: > > The interesting part if the new "immigration" bill was just defeated, and= > the "Software Industry" is very "upset" about it. They claim there will = > be a horrific shortage of trained and talented workers, and that we will = > loose the international competition for those workers. > Pure undiluted bull-hockey. The truth is we have more talent here in the = > U.S. than anywhwere else in the world, period. Virtual every major comput= > er innovation, hardware and software has came from here. Wake up, Paul, it's 2007, not 1977 anymore. Thierry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:14:33 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W299016979_23194_1183130073 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_vm_0016_W299016979_23194_1183130073" ----=_vm_0016_W299016979_23194_1183130073 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep- it is Thierry, and I have resumes from at least 18 very highl= y qualified U.S. citizens sitting right here on my desk. And if *I* do , = am sure there are literraly 10's of thousands of people just like me arou= nd in the business world. I also have plenty of resumes from well qualifi= ed non-U.S. citizens as well - all of whom tend to have lower salary expe= ctations and far less real experience. I think I am awake - and besides, I was in the business in 1997, and in f= act, in 1977 as well. :) -Paul ----=_vm_0016_W299016979_23194_1183130073 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<grin> Yep- it is Thierry, and I have resumes from at leas= t 18 very highly qualified U.S. citizens sitting right here on my desk. A= nd if *I* do , am sure there are literraly 10's of thousands of people ju= st like me around in the business world. I also have plenty of resumes fr= om well qualified non-U.S. citizens as well - all of whom tend to have lo= wer salary expectations and far less real experience.

I think I am awake - and besides, I was in the business in 1997, and i= n fact, in 1977 as well. :)

-Paul

 

----=_vm_0016_W299016979_23194_1183130073-- ----=_vm_0011_W299016979_23194_1183130073 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment From: "Thierry Dussuet" To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:47:00 +0000 Received: (qmail 10143 invoked by uid 78); 29 Jun 2007 14:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns-mr11.netsolmail.com) (10.49.16.57) by 0 with SMTP; 29 Jun 2007 14:56:05 -0000 Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM (mvb.saic.com [198.151.12.104]) by ns-mr11.netsolmail.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l5TEu4mQ016314 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:56:04 -0400 X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.1 (FreeBSD) Lines: 15 Organization: TDC Switzerland AG, http://www.sunrise.ch X-Trace: 1183128420 news.sunrise.ch 3781 62.167.10.151:9194 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sunrise.ch X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET Subject: Re: Tech support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi On 2007-06-29, Paul Raulerson wrote: > > The interesting part if the new "immigration" bill was just defeated, and= > the "Software Industry" is very "upset" about it. They claim there will = > be a horrific shortage of trained and talented workers, and that we will = > loose the international competition for those workers. > Pure undiluted bull-hockey. The truth is we have more talent here in the = > U.S. than anywhwere else in the world, period. Virtual every major comput= > er innovation, hardware and software has came from here. Wake up, Paul, it's 2007, not 1977 anymore. Thierry ----=_vm_0011_W299016979_23194_1183130073-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:21:15 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: VAX logo ? Message-ID: weird question: anybody knows where to locate "Vax" or "VaxStation" logos, in gif, jpg or whatever web-compatible format ? I.e. such as the "digital", "alpha generation", or "Digital Unix" logos ? Neither Google nor Filewatcher was helpful here so far. TIA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:31:37 +0200 From: Kjell Andresen Subject: Re: VAX logo ? Message-ID: Michael Kraemer writes: > weird question: > > anybody knows where to locate "Vax" or "VaxStation" logos, > in gif, jpg or whatever web-compatible format ? Didn't find any. Maybe because they're trademarked? > I.e. such as the "digital", "alpha generation", or "Digital Unix" > logos ? http://www.pottsoft.com/home/gifs/digital_logo.gif http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Equipment_Corporation and from there http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Digital_dec_logo.png (346 × 100 pixel, file size: 6 KB, MIME type: image/png) "Digital Equipment Corporation logo. This has been created from scratch by Rpb01r based on the 'late' period (Alpha onwards) DEC logo to avoid any artefacts and provide a marginally higher resolution. I surmise that the licensing for this is 'Logo'." > Neither Google nor Filewatcher was helpful here so far. Google helped me a little. Kjell -- http://www.usit.uio.no/it/unix/du/du.gif ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:12:31 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: VAX logo ? Message-ID: In article , Kjell Andresen writes: > > Didn't find any. Maybe because they're trademarked? I don't think this would prevent people from using it on hobbyist sites. Would be gratis advertisement for the owner, BTW. I'd rather think that Vax was popular long before WWW, and when WWW was established Vax was not cool enough to generate cool logos and put them on display. Maybe I just take a picture of my VAXstation's frontplate and do some image processing. > > I.e. such as the "digital", "alpha generation", or "Digital Unix" > > logos ? > > http://www.pottsoft.com/home/gifs/digital_logo.gif > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Equipment_Corporation and from there > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Digital_dec_logo.png > (346 × 100 pixel, file size: 6 KB, MIME type: image/png) I have all these already, they were rather easy to locate. (and are probably even more trademarked than Vax, if I search eBay I get offerings for VAX jeans and VAX vacuum cleaners) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:31:02 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: VAX logo ? Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:12:31 -0700, Michael Kraemer wrote: > In article , Kjell Andresen > writes: >> >> Didn't find any. Maybe because they're trademarked? > > I don't think this would prevent people from using it on > hobbyist sites. Would be gratis advertisement for the owner, BTW. > I'd rather think that Vax was popular long before WWW, > and when WWW was established Vax was not cool enough to > generate cool logos and put them on display. > Maybe I just take a picture of my VAXstation's frontplate > and do some image processing. You could get sued, perhaps by a certain vacuum cleaner company:-) > >> > I.e. such as the "digital", "alpha generation", or "Digital Unix" >> > logos ? >> >> http://www.pottsoft.com/home/gifs/digital_logo.gif >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Equipment_Corporation and from >> there >> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Digital_dec_logo.png >> (346 × 100 pixel, file size: 6 KB, MIME type: image/png) > > I have all these already, they were rather easy to locate. > (and are probably even more trademarked than Vax, if I > search eBay I get offerings for VAX jeans and VAX vacuum cleaners) > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:17:35 -0700 From: "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" Subject: Re: VTJ V10 Message-ID: <1183105055.737268.192350@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> The PostScript version of the VTJ does not print on a HP8100 Series printer using DCPS V2.5. It hangs somewhere around page 11. We had to power cylcle the printer to get it operational again. Just FYI! Bart On Jun 28, 5:53 pm, IanMiller wrote: > If you want to read something positive for a change why not have a > look at the latest VMS Technical Journal. > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=07/06/28/1382563 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:19:16 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: VTJ V10 Message-ID: Bart.Zorn@gmail.com wrote: > The PostScript version of the VTJ does not print on a HP8100 Series > printer using DCPS V2.5. > It hangs somewhere around page 11. We had to power cylcle the printer > to get it operational again. Some printers have trouble printing this file, hanging after page 10. The file printed for me on a LaserJet 2300, 3052, 8150, 9000 and 9055mfp, and even a DEClaser 3500, but failed on a LaserJet 1320, P2015 and 8000. It doesn't matter what type of queue is used. DCPS Raw, DCPS LPD, TCP/IP LPD and Telnet queues all failed when printing to certain printers. Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.352 ************************