INFO-VAX Sat, 14 Jul 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 382 Contents: Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Re: Upgrading from 7.3-2 to 8.3: seeking advice RE: Upgrading from 7.3-2 to 8.3: seeking advice Re: XML for VMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:31:40 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: <1360452.RiL6ogtNTz@linux1.krischik.com> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Martin Krischik wrote: >> Ron Johnson wrote: >> >> >>>And the lines are all less than 255 char. >> >> >> ROFL! How many years ago that this has been an issue on any editor I use. >> Ahh the last I remember is EPM on OS/2 but with a 2499 character limit. > > Strange how I almost never need to edit a file with more than 255 > characters per line! Text files tend to max out at 132 characters since > that's the most you can print per line on most printers. I suppose > there are exceptions but I would not need to remove my shoes to count > the number of such files I needed to edit. Only yesterday I opened an XML file which hat no new lines at all - all one big enormous line. Yes silly of the program (Reflection FTP) to create such a file but nothing I can do about it. > Issues with the terminal driver might make editing such a file difficult > even in cases where the editor supports it. I have no issues with terminals drivers - I use the GTK+ version of Vim on VMS. Welcome to the great new world of X: Dropdown menus, Popup menus, Toolbar, code navigation, 2**24 colors to choose from for syntax highlight. And yes: it works for remote machines as well. Martin -- mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:35:30 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: <2246483.x5YBdZtphu@linux1.krischik.com> Rob Brown wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Martin Krischik wrote: > >> Ron Johnson wrote: >> >>> And the lines are all less than 255 char. >> >> No the last editor with a 255 char limit must have been on my Atari >> 130 XE 8bit computer and that's is probably 15 years ago. > > And EDT is older than that. Which is not actually a bad thing. More interesting question: When was the last upgrade? But John answered that question: Mid '80th - which explains a lot. Martin -- mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:08:54 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] > On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > Sent: July 13, 2007 2:30 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? > [snip ...] > > > > In the US University (20K+ students) where I just completed a > server optimi=3D > > zation and DC planning engagement, for their tech platform of > choice they u=3D > > sed multiple versions of MAC, Linux, Solaris, Windows, Fedora, > NetWare and =3D > > even a few instances of Irix. Yes, no OpenVMS. > > And this doesn't bother you? Do oyu think any of this could have > been > influenced by the fact that none of the decision makers had ever > used > (or in some cases even heard of) VMS? > Does it bother me? Nope - I also deal with Customers that shudder at the thought of using UNIX= or Windows as back end servers for mission critical stuff. > > > > Bottom line is that the technical environment in most > Universities is extre=3D > > mely fragmented based on the College and-or Dept. you are talking > to. That =3D > > was one of the challenges I was asked to address i.e. how to > bring all of t=3D > > hese various environments back under some type of centralized > control. > > I am only talking about one department. The CS department. That's > the > one that is going to most influence the direction of IT in the > future. > It really doesn't matter what is int he lab in the Chem department. > Their > graduates are not going to go on to be CIO's. Or Bio, or Nursing, > or > Secondary Ed. > At the US University I was at, by far the biggest dept was Arts and Science= , followed by Engineering. Both of those had fair to good ratings. CS was o= ne of the Depts that had one of the worst Operations environments that we r= eviewed. When asked about their archiving strategy, they answered "well, we= are working on improving that area, but right now xxx takes tapes home eve= ry couple of weeks and brings the old ones back..." .. I almost fell of my = chair. Their central ITS dept was the best with formal strategies, well run Operat= ions environments. So, please don't tell me that University CS depts reflect the future of com= puting. > > > > > >> "VMS certainly is worth considering for any CS lab that > >> wishes to offer a broad spectrum of experience to the student" > >> > >> Doesn't look like administrative use to me. And it was the > >> academic > >> that I was talking about when I I said "that ship has sailed". > >> > > > > Just wanted to emphasize that as my note stated. > > Which is irrelevant to the discussion and just further shows how > HP has failed to understand and as a result has totally > underestimated > the importance of a strong academic presence. > > > > >> Name one school today where VMS is the primary (or even > secondary) > >> computer system for teaching computing in the CS department? > >> > > > > I never stated it was a primary platform. It may be, but I do not > have acce=3D > > ss to Cust data. > > Name one CS department where you have been called in to pitch VMS. > See my notes above on CS Depts. They also tend to change their technical st= rategies with the latest trends. From what I understand, C and C++ and C# w= ere being replaced with Java as the primary programming languages. So, all these Java graduates are potential OpenVMS programmers. Simply copy= the Java programs to OpenVMS Java environment and run. Stability, clusteri= ng and no monthly security patches to worry about. Nice picture. :-) Note - I usually don't do Pre-sales. > > > > Course, see above about the hugely fractured technical > environments at most=3D > > Universities. It usually depends on the College or Dept. > > See what I said above. For the sake of this discussion only one > department at a University matters. the CS department. If other > departments have "hugely fractured technical environments" it's > because the "technical environment" doesn't matter to them, just > the applications. Ah, there's that word again. I just took a STAT > course over the summer that had a strong MINITAB requirement. Do > you remember doing that on VMS? I do. But not any more. SPSS? > BMDP? SLAM? Those are all the other departments care about. > But the CS department is where the future is being directed. And > that direction is in any direction but VMS nowdays. Not really a > good thing one would think. > See my notes above on CS. > > > >> > > >> > Other Universities are also using OpenVMS in various ways: > >> > http://wasd.vsm.com.au/other/uma_2tb.html > >> > >> Looks like they use VMS for their webserver. Doesn't say > anything > >> about students actually learning about VMS in the CS department. > >> Or even having access to a VSM machine beyond the web interface > >> which could be anything without the user knowing or caring. > >> > >> Now, Spanish is not one of my stronger languages but unless they > >> hide > >> it under Mathematics, Electronics or Engineering I could not see > >> where > >> they even have a CS Department. > >> > >> Oh wait, they have an English language web page (well, sort of.) > >> A bit of computer engineering but no Computer Science or even > >> Computer Information Systems. Sorry, Kerry, but looks like they > >> have no academic VMS either. > >> > > > > You may be right, but since you have zero knowledge of the > University, that=3D > > is pure FUD based on your UNIX OS religion and preferences. > > I have as much as anyone else except for the staff there. There is > no > mention of VMS anywhere on any of their pages. You pointed this > out as > a sign of a VMS presence in academia. Where is it? Running a > webserver > on VMS hardly counts as VMS really brings nothing advantageous to > the art. > Where does it say that they use VMS for academic use and that the > students > will leave there with "broad spectrum of experience" that includes > VMS? > If I were in charge of IT, I would fire any internal programmer that publis= hed details on the company internal computing environment on the external w= eb site. Imho, that is a gross security violation. That includes any platfo= rm details. Most secure environments do not publish much, if anything about their inter= nal computing strategies. > > > >> > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/ospp_turin.html > >> > >> That's HP talking about something that Politecnico di Torino > >> doesn't > >> think is important enough to even have on their web page. No > real > >> CS department, but they have a Computer Engineering departmetn > >> which > >> seems to stress hardware design rather than software or or pure > >> CS. > >> No mention of this project there either. I would guess they had > >> about > >> as much luck getting their project going as I did here. > >> > >> So, how long does something have to be dead before HP stops > touting > >> it > >> as a success? > >> > > > > Give it a rest. You have next to zero interest in hearing > anything but that=3D > > UNIX is the answer for all University technical computing > requirements. > > How can you be such an idiot. I fought to keep VMS here in the CS > department (very likely to expense of my career) long after > everyone > else had given up on it. I put in the extra work on my own time to > keep VMS machines running here. I convinced Professors to use them > even when alternatives existed on our more common platforms. It's > a > damn sight more than anyone from HP has done. > Well, I appreciate the effort, but perhaps you can clarify something - You keep saying that, but then in your comments, you give the view that abo= ut all that was provided was a bare bones platform running OpenVMS. Perhaps= I missed it (but willing to be corrected), but did you provide a UNIX styl= e interface option as well as the std English friendly std with the latest = programming languages like Java, Perl, PHP etc etc ? What about freeware SQ= L db's like MySQL or freeware middleware like JBoss? Do you really understand the benefits of active-active clustering with a na= tive common file system and batch sub-system that allows programs, batch jo= bs and DCL routines to run against the same data at the same time on any sy= stem with no third party prog's like expensive Oracle RAC in the mix? Or th= e benefits of not having to worry about 5-20 security patches per month? > > > >> > > >> > And I regularly see University of.. or College of.. on > >> participant .sig fil=3D3D > >> > es in this newsgroup and others like Multinet, Rdb etc. > >> > >> Maybe like all the people who have responded to Dadid Turner we > >> could do > >> an unofficial poll of c.o.v users. How many people here with > .edu > >> in > >> their email address are at schools that still use VMS as their > >> primary > >> (Secondary? Tertiary?) computing systems for teaching Computer > >> Science > >> or even Computer Inofrmatuion Systems? > >> > > > > As I stated earlier, c.o.v. is only a small, micro subset of > Custs who use =3D > > OpenVMS. > > Yeah, but it is the mmicro subset that seems to be most fanatical > about > VMS and its continued survival. So, raise your hands people. Who, > from > the .edu community here, still has active CS or CIS courses that > are > done on VMS or talk about VMS as a part of the instruction? > > > > > Most of the Rdb and Multinet newsgroup users do not even > participate on com=3D > > p.os.vms. > > Feel free to ask them the same question. > > > > >> <.......> > >> > >> >:-) > >> > > >> > And if one looks at the future of education, ultra high > >> availability and se=3D3D > >> > curity is coming big time, because of all the remote courses > >> being offered =3D3D > >> > all year around. > >> > >> Again, you are talking about administrative use and I (and Doug) > >> were > >> talking about academic use. of course, without the academic use > >> less > >> and less people will even know what VMS is and we can already > see > >> the > >> results of that. > >> > >> > > >> > As an example - My son is taking a computer animation course > >> (Animationment=3D3D > >> > or.com). Totally online. It is a course being driven by > >> instructors from Di=3D3D > >> > sney, Pixar etc as they could not get enough of the right > types > >> of skills t=3D3D > >> > hey needed. His classmates are from around North America, > Europe > >> and Asia P=3D3D > >> > acific. It is not uncommon where he has to be online for class > >> discussions =3D3D > >> > and lectures at 9:00pm at night. It is a compressed 18 month > >> course with 6 =3D3D > >> > x 3 month sessions and 1 week between sessions. Huge advantage > >> though is th=3D3D > >> > at he can literally do this course anywhere there is a high > speed > >> Internet =3D3D > >> > connection. (He has moved several times and it does not impact > >> his course). > >> > >> And how much has he learned about VMS so far? Does he even know > >> what the > >> underlying technology is (and I would bet it ain't VMS). What's > >> more, does > >> he care. > >> > > > > Again, you are missing the point. > > I'm missing the point!!!! Good grief. You have misswed the point > of > this thread since the beginning, > > "VMS certainly is worth considering for any CS lab that > wishes to offer a broad spectrum of experience to the student" > > > > >> > > >> > Imho, that is where Universities are also heading for many of > >> their course =3D3D > >> > offerings (not all, of course) as they can not afford to have > >> huge infrastr=3D3D > >> > uctures sitting idle for numerous months with no student > activity > >> generatin=3D3D > >> > g $`s. > >> > >> None of which requires VMS and being as none of the people > involved > >> have > >> ever heard of VMS it is likely going to be a hard sell. How are > >> you going > >> to sell VMS to a Professor teaching animation when you don't > even > >> have > >> graphics capability? Or are you announcing the return of VMS to > >> the > >> desktop workstation market? > >> More client stuff. Clients and servers are two different worlds. See my previous comments. You seem to think CS has a much bigger influence that I think it does. Its = likely your main focus is the client side of a CS dept at the University yo= u are at. Fine. Nothing wrong with that. Lets agree to disagree. [snip...] Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:50:19 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Message-ID: On 07/14/07 09:08, Main, Kerry wrote: [snip] > > More client stuff. Clients and servers are two different worlds. > > See my previous comments. > > You seem to think CS has a much bigger influence that I think it > does. Its likely your main focus is the client side of a CS dept > at the University you are at. > > Fine. Nothing wrong with that. Lets agree to disagree. But where do the next generation of programmers and systems analysts come from???? Mostly Comp Sci departments. There's a reason, you know, it's called *Computer* Science. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:23:53 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Message-ID: <000301c7c62a$fd2f9ab0$f78ed010$@com> I tend to disagree Ron. We take in a lot of kids with non-CS majors. The next generation comes from spending 2 to three hours per day with them over the next --> 3 to 5 years <--, mentoring them through projects and teaching them to deal with the real world. Generally, the ones we get that are CS grads seem to know a LOT about Microsoft frippery (such as how to use different fonts in word, or excel, or how to parse XML in Visual Basic) but very little about the day to day operations (backup, security, data integrity), project management or definition, dealing with stakeholders, or just how much work programming actually is. (Okay, fun work, but work non the less...) I am finding the CS education *I* received is far different from what they get today. We had one interview the other day where the person had never even be *exposed* to compiler theory, must less required to build a compiler! Yeesh- we *all* had to do that - in the 1970s. And the only languages they were exposed to in their entire program were Visual Basic, Visual C++, and Perl. No classes on Data Structures even. They PAID for this?? Well, I suppose not- they probably get public grants to pay for this, so we paid for it out of taxes. (*sigh*) We do get some really bright kids in, but the schools are failing to educate them on the basic things that they need to understand, telling them "Oh, nobody ever has to know about the HARDWARE anymore- everyone uses Java, which doesn't CARE about the hardware." Put them on a simple project, like converting a data file from an AS/400 to a UNIX system, and they quickly demonstrate they have not been exposed to the idea of anything different from ASCII. The good ones learn like a sponge, and you get rewarded by seeing them get excited because now they finally UNDERSTAND why something worked. Talk to their professors, and often you find yourself as the target of insane derision at the mention of any kind of legacy systems. Yet, when you point out that the Indian programmers learn just that in school, and wow - they seem to be taking a whole lot of jobs that U.S. students seem to deride (and are unqualified for) well... you get looked at like you have crawled out of a rock. Well, they may be right. But it won't happen overnight or by their wishing it so, not with several trillion lines of running code out there that was written without the benefit of their "wisdom." Nor, despite attempt after attempt, have those legacy systems died out. Look for instance, at VMS, which is poised for a resurgence. And unfortunately, students ingrained with this nonsense, the unlucky ones who never get the chance to really learn, or the stupid or lazy ones who do not want to learn, will be taking over as management people in the not too distant future. Another point- the Junior Colleges, with limited budgets and not-so-prestigious names, are turning our some darn good programmers and analysists. This surprised me, but I guess it should not have. The people teaching there are closer to reality, and don't have the staggering budgets of some "prestigious" departments, so they make do and in the process, the kids get to learn a whole lot. Not universally true, but far more true than I would have believed say, 10 years ago. The times they are a changing... -Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 9:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? > > On 07/14/07 09:08, Main, Kerry wrote: > [snip] > > > > More client stuff. Clients and servers are two different worlds. > > > > See my previous comments. > > > > You seem to think CS has a much bigger influence that I think it > > does. Its likely your main focus is the client side of a CS dept > > at the University you are at. > > > > Fine. Nothing wrong with that. Lets agree to disagree. > > But where do the next generation of programmers and systems analysts > come from???? Mostly Comp Sci departments. > > There's a reason, you know, it's called *Computer* Science. > > -- > Ron Johnson, Jr. > Jefferson LA USA > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:26:37 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Message-ID: <000401c7c62b$5f162a50$1d427ef0$@com> ! I KNOW darn well I corrected those typos in the message below - OutLook seems to have dropped all the corrections when it sent the message. Sorry - Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Raulerson [mailto:paul@raulersons.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 10:24 AM > To: 'Ron Johnson'; 'Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' > Subject: RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? > > I tend to disagree Ron. We take in a lot of kids with non-CS majors. > The next generation comes from spending 2 to three hours per day with ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:24:23 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > Sent: July 14, 2007 10:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? > > On 07/14/07 09:08, Main, Kerry wrote: > [snip] > > > > More client stuff. Clients and servers are two different worlds. > > > > See my previous comments. > > > > You seem to think CS has a much bigger influence that I think it > > does. Its likely your main focus is the client side of a CS dept > > at the University you are at. > > > > Fine. Nothing wrong with that. Lets agree to disagree. > > But where do the next generation of programmers and systems > analysts > come from???? Mostly Comp Sci departments. > > There's a reason, you know, it's called *Computer* Science. > > -- [snip] Bit of an old wives tale .. Programmers straight out of University today have lots of mush and can line= up buzz words with the best marketing hype available. They have a very bas= ic grounding of computers and programming, but it barely meets the requirem= ents of what companies are looking for today. To be truly useful, they need to be able to web enable (where appropriate) = existing applications (Fortran, Basic, C, C++, PL/1, Cobol) and/or understa= nd different ways of integrating existing data with new applications. And t= his takes an understanding of how the companies business processes operate = and the culture of their end users. To be truly useful, they need to also really understand application securit= y. The 1 or 2 courses they take in 3-4 years of CS just does not cut it in = today's world. And contrary to popular belief, perimeter security (firewall= s) is only the entry level today. Especially with web services and Customer= s on the Internet accessing applications that touch internal systems which = provides read/write access to their data. To be truly useful, they need to understand that their CS degree is equival= ent to just signing up for the Army. Boot camp starts *after* they get thei= r degree. To be truly useful, they need to understand that the best technical solutio= n may not be what is in the best interest of the company as a whole. While = they may "stifle the creativity of the programmer", standards exist for a r= eason. And as I mentioned earlier, our review of the CS dept in that major US Univ= ersity showed that the CS dept had one of the lowest ratings (actually *the= * lowest) from an overall Operations perspective. Its to bad that CS Depts do not teach the realities of Operations to these = budding new programmers. It might give them a bit of additional insight to = the real world. And as Paul mentioned in his reply, it appears the above is not being lost = in the teachings at other country Universities. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:27:34 +0200 From: "H Vlems" Subject: Re: Upgrading from 7.3-2 to 8.3: seeking advice Message-ID: <46988878$0$16511$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl> "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" schreef in bericht news:f73q2e$at$4@online.de... > I plan to upgrade from 7.3-2 to 8.3 soon. Anything special I should > keep in mind? > > I've lost track of the layered-product distributions. Since I like to > bundle my upgrades, it would be nice to wait until the next > layered-product distribution ships. When should that be? (The OS is > not so critical since patches are available from ITRC and I haven't lost > track of OS patches.) > Hi Phillip, two systems (at home of course) run 8.3. One system was a new installation, on an Alpha Server 1200, the other was an upgrade from 7.3-2 on a Compaq Prof. Workstation 1000. The XP1000 complains at power on that its firmware is not at the required version. It doesn't seem to bother VMS, but for some strange reason I don't often use the XP1000, I prefer the DS5305 and the AS1200. Anyway, the DS5305 still runs 7.3 and I will upgrade it after the holidays. Layered products that I use are: DECnet, IP, Pascal, C and DECset. I didn't notice any problems with those, but I'm not a power user (any more). Hans ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:29:39 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Upgrading from 7.3-2 to 8.3: seeking advice Message-ID: <000501c7c62b$cb530ee0$61f92ca0$@com> One thing that might or might not be an issue; some of the terminal handling has changed and it breaks some terminal emulators. In particular, PCOMM in VT340 mode will not work with /DEVICE_TYPE=VT300_SERIES, have to drop to /DEVICE_TYPE=VT100. Probably the 8.3 behavior is *correct*, and it is just exposing flaws in the terminal emulators, but ... user beware! -Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: H Vlems [mailto:hvlems@freenet.de] > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:28 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Upgrading from 7.3-2 to 8.3: seeking advice > > > "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" > > schreef in bericht news:f73q2e$at$4@online.de... > > I plan to upgrade from 7.3-2 to 8.3 soon. Anything special I should > > keep in mind? > > > > I've lost track of the layered-product distributions. Since I like > to > > bundle my upgrades, it would be nice to wait until the next > > layered-product distribution ships. When should that be? (The OS is > > not so critical since patches are available from ITRC and I haven't > lost > > track of OS patches.) > > > Hi Phillip, two systems (at home of course) run 8.3. One system was a > new > installation, on an Alpha Server 1200, the other was an upgrade from > 7.3-2 > on a Compaq Prof. Workstation 1000. The XP1000 complains at power on > that > its firmware is not at the required version. It doesn't seem to bother > VMS, > but for some strange reason I don't often use the XP1000, I prefer the > DS5305 and the AS1200. Anyway, the DS5305 still runs 7.3 and I will > upgrade > it after the holidays. Layered products that I use are: DECnet, IP, > Pascal, > C and DECset. I didn't notice any problems with those, but I'm not a > power > user (any more). > Hans > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:37:28 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: XML for VMS Message-ID: In article <1184363711.378066.42170@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Pierre wrote: > On 5 juil, 17:42, Chris Sharman wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > > Unless I misunderstand XML (an excellent possibility), you should be able > > > to do > > > this in DCL: > > > > You and me both! > > > > > $READ_LOOP: > > > $ READ/END= ilnm vbl > > > $ XML_TAG = F$ELEM( 1, "_", vbl ) > > > $ XML_VALUE = vbl - "_" - XML_TAG - "_" > > > $ WRITE olnm F$FAO( "!AS", XML_TAG, XML_VALUE, XML_TAG ) > > > $ GOTO READ_LOOP > > > $eof_label: > > > > Indeed - but I'm wanting to read xml, not write it - writing is fairly > > trivial, as you observe. > > you may use xmlstarlet. it's built upon libxml2 and libxsl. we use it > everyday from DCL to extract data from XML file and create DCL symbols > that can be used later on. > Is this the one at ? If so, how does one build it for VMS? -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.382 ************************